June 18, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of the House of Peregrine podcast, Mickelle is joined by Doris Dario, relocation coach, speaker, and founder of dorisdario.com. With personal experience living across 5 continents, 9 relocations, and raising her trilingual children across 90 countries, Doris brings an elegant blend of insight, structure, and warmth to what can otherwise feel like a chaotic transition: moving abroad.
Doris shares how relocation coaching differs from logistical support, focusing instead on alignment, values, and the emotional preparation needed to thrive, not just arrive. Drawing powerful parallels between relocation and childbirth, she offers a refreshing take on ceremony, mindset, and the sacred process of reinvention.
Key Moments:
- Why "trailing spouse" is a violent term and how to shift the dynamic
- The role of ceremony and values in creating a soft landing
- Navigating the 3-month post-move “dip” and how to prepare for it
- Raising global children: language immersion, identity, and stability
- Signs you may be running away, and how to re-center before relocating
- Why moving abroad won’t solve your problems but might transform your life
Learn more about Doris and her work at dorisdario.com or connect via LinkedIn. Her book The Digital Nomad Family offers a gentle guide to exploring your “what if.”
Discover more resources and exclusive perks for internationals with the House of Peregrine app. Visit HouseofPeregrine.com to download and start living a more connected, intentional life today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Mikkel Weber, founder and auteur of House of
Peregrine. Expat, immigrant, pioneer.
None of these were a fit, but Peregrine describes what we are
all about perfectly, those that craft their life story with
intention. I've spent the last six years in
awe of the life changing connections and stories I've
(00:23):
experienced while living abroad.Believe it is time for this
adventure to be recognized, celebrated, and elevated to the
life stage that it is. Through these interviews, I hope
to connect those living internationally more deeply to
both the place they are living and with themselves and those
around them. We cover everything from
international finances and meaning making to global
(00:46):
parenting and relationships to make your time abroad more
intentional, edifying and full of beauty.
Find us at houseofperegrine.com where you can find more ways to
connect with the ethos of Peregrine.
I hope you enjoy today's guest. Let's get started.
Welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast, where we
(01:06):
explore the inner and outer journeys of those who move.
Today I'm joined by Doris Dario,A relocation coach, speaker and
mentor who guides individuals, couples and families on their
journey to finding a place that suits their values for a phase,
a season, or a lifetime. With decades of experience and
global business leadership and adeeply personal understanding of
(01:28):
reinvention, Doris has lived herlife in over 5 continents, 90
countries, 50 of them with kids standing, 9 relocations.
When she became a mother, she and her husband plotted their
moves to align with their valuesof language acquisition and
mastery for their children, their hobbies and seasons as a
family. Now, as a relocation coach, she
(01:49):
helps others to do the same by identifying their values,
matching that to a country or a region, and helping her clients
navigate all of the expected andunexpected turns of living the
life less travelled. Thank you so much for joining me
today, Doris. I am so happy to have you on the
House of the Peregrine podcast. Thanks so much for having me,
Mikael. Well, I want to dive right in
(02:11):
because I think First off, I want to know what is and is not
a relocation coach. OK, that's right away.
Relocation coaching, unlike relocation agents and the
relocation coach, I help people,families to get clear on really
what they want and how they wantto design a new life abroad.
(02:32):
So it's really about not it's not about finding visas, finding
right away the location or you know housing etcetera.
It's really about going quite a step back and, and figuring out
what your, why is in the 1st place.
So what really drives you? Why do you want to do this?
What is your priority right now as a family or as a couple or as
(02:54):
an individual? And, and then secondly, to
really figure out how to do thisnew thing.
It's not about, you know, changing location.
It's really about thriving in this new environment, in this
new chapter in, in your life abroad, which is quite
challenging in itself. My role as a relocation coach is
really to guide them on this journey and to make it fun, to
(03:17):
make it really an exciting chapter rather than just AI got
to have to move somewhere. Yeah.
And would you say so? We we are very familiar with
coaches and other realms of our life, business coaches,
individual coaches, therapists, even midwives or doctors and for
different goals we have, we are all very familiar in our
(03:38):
cultures with a coach. But I'm not sure that anyone
would think to hire a relocationcoach for this sort of
transition. And so do you find that's a new
or not new, but maybe just a, a niche offering?
It is indeed a niche of a nation.
And I think you, you spotted you, you mentioned the right
word, midwife. It's actually like somebody who
(04:01):
creates space and who holds thatspace for you to be able to, to,
to find your inner strength and your, your confidence because
everyone is able to do it. But we're just unsure.
We've got these fears put onto us from everyone else around us.
And so it's really about helping, helping others to, to
really find that space and to, to really empower themselves to
(04:22):
take this next step to go out oftheir comfort zone.
It's a hard one, but it's it's possible for everyone.
Yeah. And so I want to back up how did
you get to be doing what you're doing?
I know you have a story, a book out and these things are they
don't come from nowhere. So I would love to hear a little
bit of how you tell your story about living in all these
(04:43):
amazing places. So I'm originally from the from
South Tyrol which is a German speaking part of Italy.
So I already grew up between 2 worlds, the German very extreme
world, an Italian very easy world.
For those of you who are on video, she's doing this with her
hands like Italian, she's doing mentioning she's motioning from
the heart and emotion, emotion. My Italian side comes out.
(05:05):
So I, I grew up in this small village in the, in the
Dolomites, in the mountains in the Alps.
And very early on I felt this urged to just see what's beyond.
You know, it's such a beautiful area.
It's, it's, it's, it's amazing. But for me it was, it was a
feeling. There must be more to it.
And so I started very early to explore beyond.
I, I insisted with my parents that I wanted to do in a pair in
(05:26):
France when I was 16. I wanted to work here at the
Garda Lake. I wanted to really do things
away from home. And as soon as I hit 20, I went
to university in, in Bologna, which is an 88 hour drive away
from home. And, and from there I basically
started exploring all of Europe and then pretty much the whole
world. And it's when I realized that is
(05:50):
what makes me happy. So I've been travelling for many
years and met my part along the way.
He's Spanish. But eventually we wanted to, to,
to start a family and we were a bit in between.
You know, this, this myth by thesociety telling you once you
have children, that's it, fun isover.
(06:10):
You've got to settle down, you've got to do things the
proper way, get a proper job, etcetera.
So we fell for it and we did settle down in London for a few
years and but soon enough we hadthis urge.
It was just work, work and you know, just childcare work and it
just wasn't working for us. So we sat down intentionally and
we really started to design our own life that would be creating
(06:34):
a life around our family rather than, you know, around our work.
So that was the start of saying actually, let's just do
something else insisted while wenegotiate with our employers.
This was 2009, so that was well before COVID to be able to work
remotely and that started eventually we got the green
light, but both of us and that started this new chapter where
(06:56):
we actually with our kids, we had two by that time first lived
in in Northern Italy for a bit, then that down to in Spain and
eventually we moved. Basically, we are now moving
every two to three years. So you decentred work and
centred your family and that's right.
(07:17):
And that I find and I want to get to the rest of kind of your
journey a little bit, but but that moment of decentering, what
people tell you, you need to center your life around and the
way you that's a big moment And and you know, sometimes only in
hindsight, but realizing in a way, and this has been my
experience, that what you've been told, it's not a lie, but
(07:38):
it's maybe just not true for you.
That's right. That's right.
And when I say decentering, whenyou mentioned decentering, it's
not that the work takes less of a priority.
It's just physically it's, it has moved around.
So by being able to center my life around my family, it makes
me happier. And those hours that I do work,
(07:59):
I work very extremely efficiently because I have this,
this balance between, you know, my priorities.
Yeah. And and again, you mentioned
COVID, so you're doing this before where there's actually
not a lot of maps. And I was kind of the same in my
journey. So felt like a little bit of a
digital nomad and like 2013 to 2015, fell for it, like you
(08:24):
said, fell for it that I had to stay rooted once I had kids.
Ended up just completely kind ofabandoning that, you know,
assumption and decentering our experience as a family as well.
But when you do that, you actually either have to make it
up as you go. You have to bring your partner
along and there's no map. And so having Someone Like You
(08:48):
to talk to about that is really valuable.
It would have been really valuable for me.
And I found my people, and all of us do in different kinds of
individuals that honor this path.
But having actually a wise person to sit with you and tell
you what to expect, it's something that maybe people
don't know they need. And so when they find you in
(09:10):
their story, is it usually afterthis, I don't want to call it a
crisis moment, but this moment of realizing they need to,
they've decentered something andnow they need to reorient
towards what they want to centertowards.
Is that maybe where you meet a lot of your clients?
Exactly. Usually it's, it's not, you
know, a common role and people don't know the existence of a
(09:31):
relocation coach. And most people upfront is like,
I don't need this because, you know, all I need is a visa and
it's housing. But once they realize there's so
much more, there's so many more questions that, you know, those
late night questions at night when you can't sleep and you
need answers to. And these were exactly questions
that I've felt along the way. And I, I was hoping to have to
(09:52):
find somebody, you know, I couldlook up to and to see, yes, this
is all right. You know, you can do this, you
know, to give this allowance, the permission to actually do
things differently from, from just the way it is.
You know, you're now a parent and and that's it.
And you've got to do things, youknow, the way they're supposed
to be done. So that was the main reason why
(10:13):
I started. You know, I resigned from my
job, which I have been in for 15years, an agency in London
remotely to actually set this upbecause I felt there's so many
people out there who fail in this process of relocating
because they just focus on the logistics.
And whereas the logistics is tricky, but the really the hard
(10:35):
part is the mindset part. And so if that's worked on as a
group, as a family, if that's what who you're relocating with,
then that is the main mean for happiness and success.
Let's call it success. I mean it you know, success is
is very relative anyway. Yeah.
And do you see this is, and not everyone who moves abroad does
(10:56):
it as a couple, but I'm really very interested at times in the
statistics around couples who relocate and the higher than
already high divorce rate or separation rate in this
population. Do you think part of that is
because they don't align on values before, they don't know
the adventure they're each on? Is that a way to describe it or
(11:18):
how would you describe this? Absolutely.
And I see it. I see it every every day with,
with clients, I especially with couples, I take a lot on the
role of mediator because there'sa lot of things that are not
said that are just assumed. I assumed you, you want this and
I assumed you always love that. Whereas obviously we change, we
(11:40):
evolve. So we do change our preference
anyway. And the main problem I see,
especially with, you know, if there's a, there's a couple
where one of the two needs to move abroad for, for, you know,
work related, and the other person turns into the trailing
spot. I hate they made the word
trailing spouse, by the way, because it's just so violent.
But that's where the problem starts because the only person
(12:02):
who is communicated with is the one who gets the job.
So they talk to the agent and they take all the decisions for
themselves, for their partner and for their whole family.
And that's where things go, you know, pretty, pretty wrong
because, you know, the other person gives up their job, gives
up their livelihood, their friends, their family and
(12:23):
everything in order to go with them.
And it's almost, I always hear it from my clients.
It's always like a suffering andit's like a sacrifice that I do
for my partner. And it's not about being a
sacrifice. You know, partnerships are not
about sacrificing. It's about celebrating each
other and and thriving on each other.
So it is really about very important to sit down and talk
(12:44):
the things through, talk about the expectations and really
getting aligned and clear on howdo we want to do this in the new
place. Yeah.
Before doing it. I want to go back to something
you just said, which was trailing spouse is a violent
term. Please expound on that.
And then I want to continue because that's that's a very
compelling thing you just said. I just feel, I mean, you know,
(13:06):
that the term trail is that you pull someone behind you and it
almost sounds like a force that it's, you know, you want to do
this and then everybody else you're, you're basically
training them behind you. And it's, I just feel it, it
should be 1 unit that decides this one thing.
And they're all on your Indies together and they create this
(13:28):
new chapter together. And that's when you thrive and
that's when you create happiness.
And that's when it turns into success.
And otherwise there's always this resentment.
And along the way, I've seen so many couples where it happens.
There's this resentment. And along the way, you know, I
gave up this for you and I did this for you.
And now you want something in return.
And, and it's not what you expected.
(13:51):
And that's when things go sideways.
And it's really sad, especially when there's children involved
because they are, you know, the ones who suffer most in this.
And then they have to move back.And it's all a failure.
And it's this sense of failure of not having succeeded when it
has an an easy solution. Yeah, yeah, it's an easy
solution, but it's not actually obvious if you've never done it
(14:14):
before. So I always like to say a lot of
our listeners know I gave a Ted talk about women and how they
don't set up their lives financially and how I would like
them to have these conversations.
But I always say, what I said inthere is whenever you get
married, it's for the first time, you don't know the
questions to ask. You need the wisdom of others to
ask the right questions. And that occurs to me that's a
(14:34):
little bit the same here, like you've never, if you've never
moved abroad before, you don't know what to ask.
And so that that first step of just not knowing what you don't
know is super important. And so I think doing this in a
very mindful way is something that people don't know they need
to do. And so I love that.
I love what you're doing. Is this mediation of wisdom,
(14:57):
bringing structure to this process of why are we doing
this? What is our mission as a couple,
as a family, as an individual, even even if you're moving
without anyone else, and especially if you aren't, you
still need to know what success and failure looks like.
You need to know your whys. You need to know your values.
Because guess what? At least in my experience, they
(15:19):
just changed the moment you decided to leave your country
And, and now everything's kind of floating around until you put
it back down and to put it together a different way.
And so I love the notion that there would be a mediator for
something that's so far unnavigated by that an
individual important in every aspect of life.
But this one, I think could potentially save a relationship
(15:41):
a lot of money, a lot of pain. And I love, I love how you add
fun in there. I say the word vitality because
I think vitality encompasses things that aren't fun but are
vital. And so it occurs to me that
you're adding a lot of vitality into this process.
I like the term vitality becauseit's, it's it's funny how you
(16:03):
know, we as humans, when there'ssomething that you've got to do,
then automatically it needs to be suffering.
It needs to be hard and it needsto be stressful and it doesn't
have to it's all in your mind. So you can turn it around.
And even for these goodbyes is closing off 1 chapter,
dismantling your house, decidingwhat comes with you, what can
(16:24):
stay. You know what you can give away.
It's such an important and such a mindful and intense process
that you got to enjoy. It's not about, you know, let's
just close this and do the next thing.
It's actually this, this whole preparation, which is fun.
So I always say your relocation doesn't start the moment you
land in a new place. It starts the moment you
actually decide that you want todo this, that's when it starts.
(16:47):
And that whole process needs to be joyful because especially
with children, they need to see now, this is something exciting.
This is something fun. This is something to look
forward to rather than seeing your parents just stressing
around and, you know, just making this all very scary.
So that makes a huge difference in the way they actually arrive
in a new place and and are open to to these new experiences.
(17:09):
Yeah. So translating your mission or I
don't like the word mission, butyour purpose onto your children,
that's really important. Like why are we doing this?
Because it's going to be hard. Also, it's going to be amazing.
It's going to be hard if you're learning a language.
Often children take the brunt ofthe language learning in the
family. That's going to be hard.
Having a mission driven relocation makes in translating
(17:33):
that to your kids, if you have them, I think is a really
important step. I want to go back to what you
said because I think it's reallyimportant and it's something
that we actually do at House of Peregrine, which is make it
sacred. Whether or not that is your, we
don't like the religious part ofthat word.
We don't, you don't have to takeit on, but make your life
sacred. So have ceremony around what
(17:55):
you're doing. Why not?
Why not make this sacred? And so I love that because when
you're in the midst of a move, you do not have the presence of
mind to recognize this packing of this box and this giving away
as a ceremony. And it only happens after you've
(18:15):
done a few moves, maybe that youlearn what your particular
goodbye ceremony might be. And so to have the presence of
mind, to make that holy, it alsogives you part of your life
back, and it gives a sense of dignity that I think is really
beautiful. It's very important what you say
because it's the creation. So when you move to new place,
(18:37):
it's about this creation of home.
But for me, the creation of homeis really about bringing along
some routines. They're important and they are
needed. And also these ceremonies, as
you mentioned, but it's all sorts of ceremonies.
It's things that I bring in frommy culture, my husband brings in
from his Spanish culture. And we blend it into our, this
(18:59):
is, these are our ceremonies. So this is our sacred space.
And it's even when you, when we move abroad, and we've learned
this with each move, we've, we've developed this, this sort
of ceremony that is ours. So we have these goodbye parties
with everyone where we have these friend books where
everybody signs. We put in the pictures in there
and they are vital, especially when we get to a new place.
(19:21):
I see my kids looking through these friends books and it's,
it's this, this process of digesting this recent move.
So it's all these little ceremonies that we just create
as we go along and they give us the stability that you need to
be able to continue doing this because that's, that's the, the
(19:41):
most important one that people mentioned.
But you know, what about the stability?
What about your kids being on the road?
You know, they need their stability, they need their
routines, they need their friends.
And that's what you need to create.
So it's it's something that we create very consciously.
When we move, it's a new place. So we wrap up the old one.
We close this chapter chapter very mindfully, and then we
(20:02):
start in a new one with these thanks to these routines that
give us that stability. It occurs to me that the
difference between trauma and not trauma is how you, it's not
what happens to you, it's how, what happens after or during
and, and so it, you really can make it the difference between
trauma and not. And that's, that's for all of
(20:23):
life. But maybe people don't realize
that it applies here. And so when you're working with
an individual, a couple, a family, how do you how do you
walk me through that process? What it's different for each
person, I can assume, but what are you?
And it occurs to me that's very much like birth.
(20:44):
I had a midwife when I gave birth to my 3 kids.
She basically gave me the scaffolding and the support to
have my experience, whatever I, whatever that experience wanted
to be. But she was there to hold the
safety, the expected, like what's expected, what's
unexpected, right? Like what are the boundaries and
when to worry, when not to worry, you know exactly?
(21:05):
And just like a midwife, it's, it's, it's interesting, I really
love this, this comparison with the midwife because it's to set
the framework, but to have this flexibility, all these options
in between to choose from that it's not the one way, you know,
if you want to sit on the ball and you can sit on the ball, or
you're talking about midwifing, if you want to, to kneel, you
(21:26):
know, you still have the abilityto choose within the framework.
And so that it's, you still havethis feeling that this is to
you, that, you know, you are deciding on, on how to do this.
And this is your birth, your life basically.
So yes, the way, the way we workis that we start to go quite a
bit back. And so I like to, even though
(21:49):
coaching is about the presence and the future, it's not about
the past, but just for this veryexercise, I love to go back and
just love to hear the experiences as a family, as a
couple, as an individual. You know, how much they've
travelled, how much if they evermoved and what that experience
was like. And it's always interesting
because just the moment we starttalking about their experiences,
(22:09):
they realize how much they actually know already, how
they've done so many things along the way already.
We just forget. And so that is quite an
important exercise to to really start with, with building that
self-confidence. Yes, you know, I can do this,
even though it's quite early in the in the process.
And at that point, people usually are still very doubtful
(22:31):
and just want to see how this isstill too far in distance.
We then work quite a few sessions on our values and our
passions. And when I say passions, it's
not, you know, the classical yougot to have a passion.
It's really just unlayering and understanding.
What is it that really drives you?
What, what is it that makes you get excited about things?
(22:52):
And so it's really about going deeper and then finding the
common ground. And it's an exercise that it's
very powerful because selecting within a list of values, it's,
it's easy peasy, but it is very powerful because you, you really
go much, much deeper than than anticipated.
And once we really get clear on these ones and these are
individual exercises that we then combine in conversations as
(23:15):
a group, or if it's just an individual, then we, we talk
about these. And then once we, we've, I've
really gotten clear about it, westart designing, imagining this
new life abroad. We, we do sort of an exercise to
just picturing it. And that's when the fun starts
because now we really try and see what a day looks like, what
(23:37):
a week looks like, how I really in, in envision what kind of
accommodation, you know, really based on.
Do I want to walk everywhere? Do I want to be really in the
middle of nowhere? Do I need people?
There's so many questions and it's, it's I always see people
assume you sort of first question is so which, which part
of the city is the expat city, you know, which is where.
(23:58):
That's not the point. You know, you don't want to go
into the same bubble. I mean, the whole point of
moving abroad is to actually experience this new place.
So let's see what are the options and what of which of
these options appeal to you? You know, as a, as this new
experience, you don't want to recreate your old life and do it
exactly the same way as the new one because it's not going to
(24:20):
happen. It's all going to be a disaster.
So you may as well just embrace this, this new environment and
make the best of it and try to live, you know, something quite
different from what you've you've been used to.
And that triggers and unleashes so many new situations.
It even helps you to to get to know your partner in a new way
(24:41):
just because your surrounding isdifferent, to rediscover a
different, different strengths of your children.
So it's yeah. So this is.
It's pretty much in short, it's an adventure.
Yes, yes. I want to go back though,
because this works. This process works because I'm
assuming you have people who come to you that both have a
(25:03):
choice and location and actuallydon't have a choice and
location. And so this process works for
either of those. But when they don't have it
location, they just know they need a change.
Do you help them through that process of identifying a place
that might work with their values?
Yeah, that comes after we, we work through the, the values,
(25:24):
the passions and really to, to understanding your why, why
you're doing this. And that's when we really look
at the whole world. And we then start slowly but
surely through a series of questions to really filter down
and making a selection and then another selection and then
really set priorities and understand what is really out of
these, you know, characteristic out of these important points,
(25:47):
which which wins, right. So it's, it's really a very
interesting exercise of even considering places that they've
never even considered just basedon their values and what they
really love and the kind of lifethey they envision.
And it's, it's very interesting how they then come back to
missing, I didn't even look at these options or these, this
(26:09):
continent or this region, and now you've opened this.
So it's my job is really about opening up options and, and
taking informed decisions ratherthan just, oh, I've heard
somebody move to France. And so I want to move to France
because I saw these pictures andit's like, wow, you know,
there's so much more behind it. Yeah.
And it occurs to me that you arehelping them through that
(26:32):
process. But have you seen a big change
in in the reasons people are relocating over the last five
years? What do you when you sense that
someone is running away instead of towards an experienced?
What do you tell them or how do you help them to place that?
It's very interesting when you say that it has indeed changed
(26:52):
over the over the past few years, especially with since
COVID, there was this type of remote work and you know, I can
work from everywhere. And then now with the with the
back to office, it has changed again.
And now there's a lot of people I work with are based on
political reasons for just safety reasons or lifestyle
reasons as well. But what I try to tell them is
(27:14):
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything.
In fact, I even had a family whojust, it just felt right away
they are trying to run away fromsomething they were just not
happy with the way they, they were running their lives right
now. So we looked into it and, and we
analyzed it and they got to, to,to a realization that actually
(27:35):
all they need is to change a fewthings, you know, change a few
ways in their current life rightnow.
They don't need to move abroad to become happy, to become more
intentional, to spend more time with their family.
They can actually do it where they are right now because they
were not able to move away because their parents were
elderly. So it doesn't mean that that's
(27:57):
the only way, but it means getting clear.
Why is it, what is it that I'm, I need?
Why, what change is it I need? Maybe it's a change that I can
apply where I am right now and Ican thrive again.
So it's it's, it's not really about just, you know, a
different country and that's thesolution to all your problems.
(28:17):
It's not. Yeah, because it is a massive
commitment in time, in money, intransformation, in emotional.
And so it's not, it's again, like I hate to keep bringing it
back to having kids, but like it's not having a child will not
fix a relationship. And similar, and I say this with
a lot of respect, but if you're having problems in your
(28:40):
relationship and you think a changing country will change
that without some other kinds ofwork, the saying wherever you
go, there you are applies here. And I found that to be true in
my own life and in friends lives.
Your relationship patterns follow you.
What I would say, the caveat I would put to that is a change in
(29:01):
scenery can and usually does change power dynamics for better
or worse. And it is an opportunity to
change things. But doing that without a lot of
awareness is a dangerous and expensive game.
Yes, it's a risky 1 and that's why it's my goal is always to,
(29:22):
you know, not beautify. It's not Instagramable pictures
everywhere. You know, it's, it's not, I
really insist that you got to, to look at the, you know, make
it very realistic so that peoplereally know what they're up
against. And then they can decide, am I
ready for this? Do I feel I can do this?
But if I don't know the whole the full picture, then it's it's
(29:42):
really hard. And once you know it and you
take decision, that is very empowering.
And that is it's yeah, it's yeah.
It makes a very nutritious experience instead of a
superficial 1. You still get the beautiful
Instagram photos, by the way, with the siding, a side of
satisfaction of knowing you're living your values and that
(30:03):
you're actually doing something that you really want and to
invest in. And again, for me, it's a lot
like having children. Like when I have three children,
when someone asked me if they should have children, I say it
depends. The same way I ask if people say
should I move abroad? I'm like, listen, is it
something you want? Because it's a big in time
investment, It's a lot of paperwork.
(30:25):
Is it worth it? It totally is.
You should totally move abroad and you should totally have
children if you're willing to dedicate the time that is
required for the happiness that comes out the other side.
It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone.
That it's also quite important to say, you know, it's not the
only way there's many different ways of doing this and it's and
what I also say you don't have to sell your house right away
(30:48):
and move to Bali next week. Maybe you can just start trying
it out. Maybe you go for a vacation for
a month somewhere or you take a three month sabbatical.
Just get a taste of it and then if you feel like, you know, this
actually adds to our relationship.
This really makes me happy. This really, I, I feel there's
some transformation happening. You know, this is, this helps me
thriving. Then you can expand and, you
(31:11):
know, maybe go bigger and, and bolder, but it's not, it's not
about one or the other. Well, with kids, it's a bit
different. Obviously you can borrow your,
your sisters and you know, try it out whatever we see.
Yeah, kids are a little different that way, but I do
think that it's really easy to think that you can run away and
everything will be different. And it's just not.
(31:33):
It's not it. What I would say is it's an
adventure of a lifetime and there's no other way to
transform and know yourself in the way that moving to another
culture does. You learn about yourself in a
way that is transformative and you you can't get that
experience any other way. And so it almost happens to you.
Yes, and it's what I like because this transformation,
(31:56):
it's allowing yourself to reinvent yourself, yourself and
your children. And I've seen it with my with my
kids that my daughter was very shy and very drawn in.
And that seemed like it was her,you know, her stumble on her
forehead. I'm shy.
That's it. And then we moved from Northern
Ireland to to Switzerland and suddenly, I don't know if it was
(32:18):
the, the surrounding or the new class or some, some of the girls
who just got this, this very outgoing personality out of her.
And she just completely transformed.
Now, if we had stayed back, maybe she would have, but not in
this, in this, you know, thriving way of just, you know,
being able to just reinvent herself and, you know, being
allowed to suddenly be somebody else.
(32:39):
And then seeing that actually itworks.
And it's, and she she, you couldtell she really enjoys this new
her. And so the same is with us
adults that we think we are one way and then we actually allowed
to try out different things. And I'm not saying that we are
faking it, but we're trying out different personalities of
different ways of being, of behaving, of, of living your
(33:01):
life and, and back home, you wouldn't be allowed to do it
because everybody was like you said, like you know what you're
doing, you know, we all know you.
And so it's, it's, I think that is a big experience that is not
spoken about. It's not spoken about, but it
definitely if you do move to thepartner and a long term partner,
if you don't know that's what's happening and that's possible,
(33:22):
it can be very scary if your partner's changing and trying on
new things and everything from small things to big things,
right? Exactly.
And it's, it's when the, the first few times I remember my my
partner telling me how you've changed because you've never
been like this. And and I tried to reframe it.
Is that a positive thing or a negative thing?
Because I feel that it's positive.
(33:44):
We are evolving, we're changing.If we always it was the same, if
we're stuck in that same place, that's quite sad.
Yeah. And, and that is the gift and
the Crucible of living in different places because we all
have maybe it's less known or less accepted that there are
many selves inside and people who speak multiple languages.
(34:05):
I'm not one of them, but I have been told that when you speak a
different language, different parts of you come out.
So you have at least my kids tell me when they speak Dutch,
they feel like they have a certain part of them.
When they speak English, they have a certain part of them.
And so I want to talk about thata little bit because you that
was a big value for you personally when with your moves
once you had children was language mastery.
(34:26):
And, and tell me about that. Tell me about that process and
how how it's turned out because your children are now older.
Yes, so, so we were in Spain, wehad moved from London to Spain.
And so they all started school and I remember that they and
they started English as a secondlanguage.
And so it was common that all the other parents would send
(34:47):
their kids to, you know, after school activities, English after
school activities, twice a week.So I was thinking if that's what
I have to do with three kids twice a week, taking them to
these English classes, apart from the cost and the time, you
know, it's quite an investment. And then I would listen to older
kids speaking English like poorly, I thought this is this
(35:08):
is not, this is not what I want to do.
So we really wanted to. So we said, let's go to an
English speaking country, immerse them and then they've
got perfect beautiful English and that's it.
And then we come back. That was the initial plan.
It was just to go there for a couple of years and then come
back to Spain. And that's when we decided for
Northern Ireland because we wanted to something quite, you
know, something. So we didn't want to go back to
(35:29):
London and warming up a cold soup in a sense.
So we wanted to experience something new.
So it was this hidden gem and the education system is one of
the best in Northern Ireland. So we decided for that.
Plus my husband is a is an avid surfer.
So that was edition one and it was amazing.
Within three months they spoke absolutely beautiful Northern
(35:54):
Irish English with a Northern Irish accent.
And that's what they kept. They've changed.
Their accent is now quite softened, but that's something
they've taken with them. So from there it I felt like,
you know, if this is so easy, let's take the next steps.
So we went to the Switzerland today.
I spoke to them in German, but they never they were not able to
read and write in German. So that's when we decided for
(36:16):
Switzerland. So they would go to German
school, the whole German education also during.
So they were between four and eight years old and, and that
each time the education Switzerland is focused on the
outdoors, on the social skills and the arts.
So that was something that I wasreally, you know, I could relate
to. I didn't want them to just, you
know, sit 8 hours, which is whatthey do in, in more
(36:39):
Mediterranean countries where it's, you know, lots of theory.
I wanted them to, you know, experience an education system
that is quite alternative, let'ssay.
So that's what we did in those years.
And then from there, I wanted tothey hold an Italian passport,
but then didn't speak Italian. So our thinking was let's go to
the, to, to an Italian part of Switzerland.
And so again, it was an immersion, zero language
(37:02):
knowledge by them. And within three months they
started, you know, even started moving their hands and it was
the whole, the whole bit. And so after that experience,
two years in Lugano, we then decided to come back to Spain
now, so to, to, to strengthen their roots because that is
always a bit of a risk. Home is everywhere but nowhere.
(37:24):
So we really wanted to, to, yeah, strengthen their roots
before they then go off. And now it's quite interesting
because my eldest, he turns 18 this summer, because you were
asking before how that it has turned out.
And so now he's, he's ready to go to university.
And so he's been looking at all these universities and now he
decided to go to, to the Netherlands out of all the
(37:47):
places because they, it's, it's an English, it's all taught in
English. And he just feels he wants to be
surrounded by by international people, make good use of all the
languages he speaks. Now he speaks 5 languages and so
Dutch eventually will be his sixth one.
So that's quite interesting. It's it comes full circle.
And So what I hear you saying islanguage was your guide through
(38:10):
your children's childhood and your life with your children in
their childhood that guided you.And then you had a goal of
having them have a strong base in Spain.
And so that was your, that's right.
That was kind of, whether or notyou knew it at the time, that
was what was guiding your decisions, whether they were
intuitive because there was no one doing this at the time,
(38:30):
right? Like you were.
You were a pioneer. We never had a plan.
It was always we only had a two year plan and then things just
evolved and we realized things also in between.
For each birth of my children, Iwould go back to my home place.
So we would live there for six months and the kids would go to
kindergarten school there just so that they have their little
(38:50):
roots there as well. It's, it's quite hard because
you know, they're third culture kids.
So it means they, you have to celebrate 2 cultures plus the
one where they are growing up in.
So it is true. My background is linguistics and
that's why I have this. It's, it's, it's a, it's an
important thing for me and I consider it being a gift for my
(39:14):
children. It's the biggest gift I can give
to my children. So that's quite an individual
thing for me, focusing on the languages and education system
as such, whereas other people have, have different priorities.
And that's what we work out in, in, in the work I do with them
to figure out what is your priority?
What is it that guides you? What's your guiding star?
(39:34):
Yeah, and that's super importantand it is.
But I share. So my guiding, my guiding light
was I wanted to give my childrena language.
And when people say they speak alanguage and they have a
language, I think there's a big difference.
I wanted them to have a second language and that experience of
having a second language. And so that required that they
leave, get it, start having it in their body relatively early,
(39:55):
which is what my my husband and I had the goal of.
They couldn't live their past. They had to start being
bilingual. By the time they were five, that
was the absolute cut off. And we moved to the Netherlands
the day my son turned 5. Wow, So not a moment too soon,
but those goals are my, I guess my point in telling you that
story is these goals are important.
Otherwise no one's going to helpyou make these.
(40:17):
Everything leads to staying in asingle location.
And so if you have these goals, it's really important to name
them. Well, first identify them, name
them and then then put action tothem because you're the only one
that's going to make this happen.
If these are your your values. And so when, as you guide
couples through this values, youhelp them through the transition
(40:37):
where what is the process wrapping up the process with you
look like? And I'm sure it's your clients
can always call you re engage. But as a coach, what is the
completion of that first phase of values and and relocation?
Tell me about that. So, so there's two options.
It's either, you know, the work we do before a relocation, so in
(40:58):
preparation of a relocation, normally around six months
before moving, or even if you don't have even an idea of a
date or a location or anything. So it's really just getting
started. And that's four sessions or four
weeks where we really focus on the pre, on the preparation, but
also on the mindset where I workon, you know, reset to 0
mindset, sort of get rid of all these expectations or if you
(41:21):
have expectations, manage them realistically.
And then it really gets over to the actual move.
And that's when it gets more practical.
So I guide them throughout the move, but also post move.
And that's quite an important one, just like in birth.
And I really like this, this comparison, you know, everything
works towards the birth, the date of the birth, you prepare
(41:42):
it all perfectly, but you can never really prepare the
afterwards. Yeah.
And so just like, yes, this the after birth depression, all
sorts of different symptoms thatcan occur that you're not really
prepared for. The same is with the relocation.
And I've noticed there is usually about 3 months into the
relocation into being in your place, three to six months.
(42:05):
There's a big low where you think you actually, you're over
your initial dopamine and adrenaline and, and everything
and actually start settling. And there's lots of things that
you notice that don't go exactlythe way you thought they would
go. And that's when you start
questioning your decision is this, was this the right
decision? And we all have this dip.
(42:26):
And I think it's important to understand it will happen.
And the key is how to prepare for it to, to, to go through it
more easily and just while stillthriving.
And so it's it's quite importantthat the guidance doesn't finish
the moment you move, but there'sstill especially the settling in
and this dip this three months low that we prepared for it and
(42:48):
then we plan around it. Yeah, for me, it's very
important in birth and in relocation and and immigration
to realize that millions of years of women and millions of
years of people have experiencedthis before.
So anything I'm feeling probablyisn't new.
And so that for me helps me feelget through these or it did help
(43:08):
me get through the, you know, things that may have seemed
unovercomable become overcomeable when you know that
you're not the only one that's experienced it.
But having a guide to tell you, just like when I had my babies,
like this is going to happen probably within these few days.
This is going to happen within these.
It really helps you not to freakout and keep perspective.
(43:32):
And so that is a similar thing. For me, it took a lot longer to
have that because of how we moved and we were doing it
completely on our own. And then my partner had
different phases. He wasn't here here until a few
years in, so he was still traveling quite a bit.
So we were in that first phase for quite a long time.
Actually. The honeymoon phase or feeling
(43:53):
like you live on a vacation phase lasted a lot longer for
us. And part of that, I think, is
because we prepared well. Like we got to live the sweet
moments of that a lot longer because we knew our values and
we knew why we were doing these hard things.
So I think that really made a difference.
Without knowing it, we were coming up with our values as a
family and and living them. Yeah.
(44:13):
Fantastic. But I do wish you're.
Driving. Yeah.
I mean, different years are different, but I wish we would
have had Someone Like You to give us that perspective.
And so I'm really happy that you're doing the work you're
doing because I do think there'sa new kind of person who's
attempting this and it does well.
It's not just those of us who were digital nomads in the early
(44:34):
2000s and now we're growing up and we're questioning things if
people who really do need a different kind of life just to
live their own personal journey.And I feel like there's a
different kind of person attempting this.
And that calls for a different kind of guidance.
And that makes it generative forthe people, but also the place
(44:54):
they're going. Because if traumatized people
show up in a place, that also affects the place.
And so I think the work you're doing is very important for this
new, what I see as a as an additional population of people
who are attempting this type of life living values based around
the world, anywhere can be the place that they're aligned with
(45:15):
their values. This is somewhat new in in our
generations. And so, yeah, I just appreciate
what you're doing. Thanks.
So how I'm mindful of your time.So I want to wrap up.
How can people get a hold of you?
What is what is the ideal time for someone if they're thinking
of maybe even having a stirring of I may want to live abroad?
How does that work? I think it's usually it's people
(45:38):
who who just have the thought, what if, you know, what if?
And it's still very, very early days and they only just started
talking about it. So I always say, the moment you
have these thoughts, write it down, you know, put it into
words, speak to somebody, speak to your partner, to your friends
about it. And that's the initiation of
this new process and of this newchapter.
(45:58):
And then it's really about getting help to getting clearer
because it's a lot of there's somuch information.
And I think it's even harder now, you know, you think, now
you've got all these, you know, you've got all the information
is online, you've got ChatGPT who can help you with anything,
but it's too much information. Rather than looking for the
information out there, you know,look for the information in here
(46:19):
because it's all in you. It just needs to be sorted and
ordered and put into words and into thoughts, you know, proper
thoughts rather than having all these hairs in your mind that
you would like to. But there's all these spots and
all these things that keep you back.
And so that's where it really helps.
So it's really about asking the right questions so that you get
to think about the things that that help you take a decision
(46:41):
or, you know, just developing this idea, whichever shape or
form that takes on, because you know, you can even invent
something completely new. There's millions of ways of just
doing this, of creating a new life anywhere.
So it's, that's really the, the basic.
So my, my message is, is really to listen to yourself.
And if you have this snagging voice, like positively nagging
(47:04):
voice that just makes you feel like the small to it make in
give it, give it space, createspace for that for that
because it's not going to go away.
You may end up just suppressing it at some point.
It will come out enough. I'm speaking with a lot of
people also who, who now have their their kids who just leave
the nest. And it's people who always
(47:27):
wanted to do this kind of experience and now they feel
like now is the time. But everyone else around you
tells you, what are you going todo?
You know, at your age, where areyou going to go at your age?
And and that's when you want somebody who actually believes
in you more than you believe in yourself to be able to, to
actually start this process and just doing it.
(47:47):
So true. So listen to yourself as usual.
But there's people who have donethis and people who want, want
to help you do this, and you're one of them.
And so and do it successfully ina way that you.
Yeah, you can think about. You've had a life on your own
terms successfully. That's beautiful.
All right. Well, people can reach you.
What's the best way through yourwebsite?
(48:10):
Yes. So it's my website,
doriusdario.com. I'm also on LinkedIn again,
Dorius Dario and I've got a newsletter and I've also
published a book this early January.
It's called The Digital Nomad Family and it's a guidance for
people who have the thought to see what if.
And it's really just a guide to get with lots of questions, lots
(48:32):
of exercises to really get into the mood and get into just, you
know, looking into it and seeingwhat are the options, how could
this look like for me? So it is part story of mine,
part incentive and invitation tojust give it a thought.
And you know, perhaps this couldbe something for you.
Yeah, that's great. That's awesome because buying a
(48:53):
book is a lot is a good first step to seeing if this journey
could be right for you. And then if people want to reach
out, they can they can make a consult with you to do you have
like a consult that they first can talk to you.
Yes. So it's, it's a free discovery
call. I call it a free, a free
clarification call to just just get clear on what is it they're
looking for right now and how isit?
(49:15):
Could I possibly help them and and guide them in this process?
Perfect. All right, so everyone reach out
to Doris if you're having this little nagging, beautiful
thought that you might want to live a little bit differently or
in a different place. I want to thank you for coming
on, Doris. I think this has been a
delightful conversation and hopefully illuminating for
people who didn't realize this kind of coaching was available
(49:38):
in the world. I always say living abroad is an
additional life stage and what your work is, is feeling that
exact niche that I think is so important.
So thank you for coming on. Thank you for joining us and
sharing your wisdom, and thank you everyone for listening to
the House of Peregrine podcast. I am happy to share this with
you today and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
(49:59):
Thanks so much, Miguel. OK, that's it for today.
I hope you've enjoyed our show. For the latest insights on
living internationally, join us at houseofperegrine.com to find
out how you can connect with ourcommunity.
Let's craft a life story with intention, together.
Hi, I'm Mikkel Weber, founder and auteur of House of
Peregrine. Expat, immigrant, pioneer.
None of these were a fit, but Peregrine describes what we are
all about perfectly, those that craft their life story with
intention. I've spent the last six years in
awe of the life changing connections and stories I've
(00:23):
experienced while living abroad.Believe it is time for this
adventure to be recognized, celebrated, and elevated to the
life stage that it is. Through these interviews, I hope
to connect those living internationally more deeply to
both the place they are living and with themselves and those
around them. We cover everything from
international finances and meaning making to global
(00:46):
parenting and relationships to make your time abroad more
intentional, edifying and full of beauty.
Find us at houseofperegrine.com where you can find more ways to
connect with the ethos of Peregrine.
I hope you enjoy today's guest. Let's get started.
Welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast, where we
(01:06):
explore the inner and outer journeys of those who move.
Today I'm joined by Doris Dario,A relocation coach, speaker and
mentor who guides individuals, couples and families on their
journey to finding a place that suits their values for a phase,
a season, or a lifetime. With decades of experience and
global business leadership and adeeply personal understanding of
(01:28):
reinvention, Doris has lived herlife in over 5 continents, 90
countries, 50 of them with kids standing, 9 relocations.
When she became a mother, she and her husband plotted their
moves to align with their valuesof language acquisition and
mastery for their children, their hobbies and seasons as a
family. Now, as a relocation coach, she
(01:49):
helps others to do the same by identifying their values,
matching that to a country or a region, and helping her clients
navigate all of the expected andunexpected turns of living the
life less travelled. Thank you so much for joining me
today, Doris. I am so happy to have you on the
House of the Peregrine podcast. Thanks so much for having me,
Mikael. Well, I want to dive right in
(02:11):
because I think First off, I want to know what is and is not
a relocation coach. OK, that's right away.
Relocation coaching, unlike relocation agents and the
relocation coach, I help people,families to get clear on really
what they want and how they wantto design a new life abroad.
(02:32):
So it's really about not it's not about finding visas, finding
right away the location or you know housing etcetera.
It's really about going quite a step back and, and figuring out
what your, why is in the 1st place.
So what really drives you? Why do you want to do this?
What is your priority right now as a family or as a couple or as
(02:54):
an individual? And, and then secondly, to
really figure out how to do thisnew thing.
It's not about, you know, changing location.
It's really about thriving in this new environment, in this
new chapter in, in your life abroad, which is quite
challenging in itself. My role as a relocation coach is
really to guide them on this journey and to make it fun, to
(03:17):
make it really an exciting chapter rather than just AI got
to have to move somewhere. Yeah.
And would you say so? We we are very familiar with
coaches and other realms of our life, business coaches,
individual coaches, therapists, even midwives or doctors and for
different goals we have, we are all very familiar in our
(03:38):
cultures with a coach. But I'm not sure that anyone
would think to hire a relocationcoach for this sort of
transition. And so do you find that's a new
or not new, but maybe just a, a niche offering?
It is indeed a niche of a nation.
And I think you, you spotted you, you mentioned the right
word, midwife. It's actually like somebody who
(04:01):
creates space and who holds thatspace for you to be able to, to,
to find your inner strength and your, your confidence because
everyone is able to do it. But we're just unsure.
We've got these fears put onto us from everyone else around us.
And so it's really about helping, helping others to, to
really find that space and to, to really empower themselves to
(04:22):
take this next step to go out oftheir comfort zone.
It's a hard one, but it's it's possible for everyone.
Yeah. And so I want to back up how did
you get to be doing what you're doing?
I know you have a story, a book out and these things are they
don't come from nowhere. So I would love to hear a little
bit of how you tell your story about living in all these
(04:43):
amazing places. So I'm originally from the from
South Tyrol which is a German speaking part of Italy.
So I already grew up between 2 worlds, the German very extreme
world, an Italian very easy world.
For those of you who are on video, she's doing this with her
hands like Italian, she's doing mentioning she's motioning from
the heart and emotion, emotion. My Italian side comes out.
(05:05):
So I, I grew up in this small village in the, in the
Dolomites, in the mountains in the Alps.
And very early on I felt this urged to just see what's beyond.
You know, it's such a beautiful area.
It's, it's, it's, it's amazing. But for me it was, it was a
feeling. There must be more to it.
And so I started very early to explore beyond.
I, I insisted with my parents that I wanted to do in a pair in
(05:26):
France when I was 16. I wanted to work here at the
Garda Lake. I wanted to really do things
away from home. And as soon as I hit 20, I went
to university in, in Bologna, which is an 88 hour drive away
from home. And, and from there I basically
started exploring all of Europe and then pretty much the whole
world. And it's when I realized that is
(05:50):
what makes me happy. So I've been travelling for many
years and met my part along the way.
He's Spanish. But eventually we wanted to, to,
to start a family and we were a bit in between.
You know, this, this myth by thesociety telling you once you
have children, that's it, fun isover.
(06:10):
You've got to settle down, you've got to do things the
proper way, get a proper job, etcetera.
So we fell for it and we did settle down in London for a few
years and but soon enough we hadthis urge.
It was just work, work and you know, just childcare work and it
just wasn't working for us. So we sat down intentionally and
we really started to design our own life that would be creating
(06:34):
a life around our family rather than, you know, around our work.
So that was the start of saying actually, let's just do
something else insisted while wenegotiate with our employers.
This was 2009, so that was well before COVID to be able to work
remotely and that started eventually we got the green
light, but both of us and that started this new chapter where
(06:56):
we actually with our kids, we had two by that time first lived
in in Northern Italy for a bit, then that down to in Spain and
eventually we moved. Basically, we are now moving
every two to three years. So you decentred work and
centred your family and that's right.
(07:17):
And that I find and I want to get to the rest of kind of your
journey a little bit, but but that moment of decentering, what
people tell you, you need to center your life around and the
way you that's a big moment And and you know, sometimes only in
hindsight, but realizing in a way, and this has been my
experience, that what you've been told, it's not a lie, but
(07:38):
it's maybe just not true for you.
That's right. That's right.
And when I say decentering, whenyou mentioned decentering, it's
not that the work takes less of a priority.
It's just physically it's, it has moved around.
So by being able to center my life around my family, it makes
me happier. And those hours that I do work,
(07:59):
I work very extremely efficiently because I have this,
this balance between, you know, my priorities.
Yeah. And and again, you mentioned
COVID, so you're doing this before where there's actually
not a lot of maps. And I was kind of the same in my
journey. So felt like a little bit of a
digital nomad and like 2013 to 2015, fell for it, like you
(08:24):
said, fell for it that I had to stay rooted once I had kids.
Ended up just completely kind ofabandoning that, you know,
assumption and decentering our experience as a family as well.
But when you do that, you actually either have to make it
up as you go. You have to bring your partner
along and there's no map. And so having Someone Like You
(08:48):
to talk to about that is really valuable.
It would have been really valuable for me.
And I found my people, and all of us do in different kinds of
individuals that honor this path.
But having actually a wise person to sit with you and tell
you what to expect, it's something that maybe people
don't know they need. And so when they find you in
(09:10):
their story, is it usually afterthis, I don't want to call it a
crisis moment, but this moment of realizing they need to,
they've decentered something andnow they need to reorient
towards what they want to centertowards.
Is that maybe where you meet a lot of your clients?
Exactly. Usually it's, it's not, you
know, a common role and people don't know the existence of a
(09:31):
relocation coach. And most people upfront is like,
I don't need this because, you know, all I need is a visa and
it's housing. But once they realize there's so
much more, there's so many more questions that, you know, those
late night questions at night when you can't sleep and you
need answers to. And these were exactly questions
that I've felt along the way. And I, I was hoping to have to
(09:52):
find somebody, you know, I couldlook up to and to see, yes, this
is all right. You know, you can do this, you
know, to give this allowance, the permission to actually do
things differently from, from just the way it is.
You know, you're now a parent and and that's it.
And you've got to do things, youknow, the way they're supposed
to be done. So that was the main reason why
(10:13):
I started. You know, I resigned from my
job, which I have been in for 15years, an agency in London
remotely to actually set this upbecause I felt there's so many
people out there who fail in this process of relocating
because they just focus on the logistics.
And whereas the logistics is tricky, but the really the hard
(10:35):
part is the mindset part. And so if that's worked on as a
group, as a family, if that's what who you're relocating with,
then that is the main mean for happiness and success.
Let's call it success. I mean it you know, success is
is very relative anyway. Yeah.
And do you see this is, and not everyone who moves abroad does
(10:56):
it as a couple, but I'm really very interested at times in the
statistics around couples who relocate and the higher than
already high divorce rate or separation rate in this
population. Do you think part of that is
because they don't align on values before, they don't know
the adventure they're each on? Is that a way to describe it or
(11:18):
how would you describe this? Absolutely.
And I see it. I see it every every day with,
with clients, I especially with couples, I take a lot on the
role of mediator because there'sa lot of things that are not
said that are just assumed. I assumed you, you want this and
I assumed you always love that. Whereas obviously we change, we
(11:40):
evolve. So we do change our preference
anyway. And the main problem I see,
especially with, you know, if there's a, there's a couple
where one of the two needs to move abroad for, for, you know,
work related, and the other person turns into the trailing
spot. I hate they made the word
trailing spouse, by the way, because it's just so violent.
But that's where the problem starts because the only person
(12:02):
who is communicated with is the one who gets the job.
So they talk to the agent and they take all the decisions for
themselves, for their partner and for their whole family.
And that's where things go, you know, pretty, pretty wrong
because, you know, the other person gives up their job, gives
up their livelihood, their friends, their family and
(12:23):
everything in order to go with them.
And it's almost, I always hear it from my clients.
It's always like a suffering andit's like a sacrifice that I do
for my partner. And it's not about being a
sacrifice. You know, partnerships are not
about sacrificing. It's about celebrating each
other and and thriving on each other.
So it is really about very important to sit down and talk
(12:44):
the things through, talk about the expectations and really
getting aligned and clear on howdo we want to do this in the new
place. Yeah.
Before doing it. I want to go back to something
you just said, which was trailing spouse is a violent
term. Please expound on that.
And then I want to continue because that's that's a very
compelling thing you just said. I just feel, I mean, you know,
(13:06):
that the term trail is that you pull someone behind you and it
almost sounds like a force that it's, you know, you want to do
this and then everybody else you're, you're basically
training them behind you. And it's, I just feel it, it
should be 1 unit that decides this one thing.
And they're all on your Indies together and they create this
(13:28):
new chapter together. And that's when you thrive and
that's when you create happiness.
And that's when it turns into success.
And otherwise there's always this resentment.
And along the way, I've seen so many couples where it happens.
There's this resentment. And along the way, you know, I
gave up this for you and I did this for you.
And now you want something in return.
And, and it's not what you expected.
(13:51):
And that's when things go sideways.
And it's really sad, especially when there's children involved
because they are, you know, the ones who suffer most in this.
And then they have to move back.And it's all a failure.
And it's this sense of failure of not having succeeded when it
has an an easy solution. Yeah, yeah, it's an easy
solution, but it's not actually obvious if you've never done it
(14:14):
before. So I always like to say a lot of
our listeners know I gave a Ted talk about women and how they
don't set up their lives financially and how I would like
them to have these conversations.
But I always say, what I said inthere is whenever you get
married, it's for the first time, you don't know the
questions to ask. You need the wisdom of others to
ask the right questions. And that occurs to me that's a
(14:34):
little bit the same here, like you've never, if you've never
moved abroad before, you don't know what to ask.
And so that that first step of just not knowing what you don't
know is super important. And so I think doing this in a
very mindful way is something that people don't know they need
to do. And so I love that.
I love what you're doing. Is this mediation of wisdom,
(14:57):
bringing structure to this process of why are we doing
this? What is our mission as a couple,
as a family, as an individual, even even if you're moving
without anyone else, and especially if you aren't, you
still need to know what success and failure looks like.
You need to know your whys. You need to know your values.
Because guess what? At least in my experience, they
(15:19):
just changed the moment you decided to leave your country
And, and now everything's kind of floating around until you put
it back down and to put it together a different way.
And so I love the notion that there would be a mediator for
something that's so far unnavigated by that an
individual important in every aspect of life.
But this one, I think could potentially save a relationship
(15:41):
a lot of money, a lot of pain. And I love, I love how you add
fun in there. I say the word vitality because
I think vitality encompasses things that aren't fun but are
vital. And so it occurs to me that
you're adding a lot of vitality into this process.
I like the term vitality becauseit's, it's it's funny how you
(16:03):
know, we as humans, when there'ssomething that you've got to do,
then automatically it needs to be suffering.
It needs to be hard and it needsto be stressful and it doesn't
have to it's all in your mind. So you can turn it around.
And even for these goodbyes is closing off 1 chapter,
dismantling your house, decidingwhat comes with you, what can
(16:24):
stay. You know what you can give away.
It's such an important and such a mindful and intense process
that you got to enjoy. It's not about, you know, let's
just close this and do the next thing.
It's actually this, this whole preparation, which is fun.
So I always say your relocation doesn't start the moment you
land in a new place. It starts the moment you
actually decide that you want todo this, that's when it starts.
(16:47):
And that whole process needs to be joyful because especially
with children, they need to see now, this is something exciting.
This is something fun. This is something to look
forward to rather than seeing your parents just stressing
around and, you know, just making this all very scary.
So that makes a huge difference in the way they actually arrive
in a new place and and are open to to these new experiences.
(17:09):
Yeah. So translating your mission or I
don't like the word mission, butyour purpose onto your children,
that's really important. Like why are we doing this?
Because it's going to be hard. Also, it's going to be amazing.
It's going to be hard if you're learning a language.
Often children take the brunt ofthe language learning in the
family. That's going to be hard.
Having a mission driven relocation makes in translating
(17:33):
that to your kids, if you have them, I think is a really
important step. I want to go back to what you
said because I think it's reallyimportant and it's something
that we actually do at House of Peregrine, which is make it
sacred. Whether or not that is your, we
don't like the religious part ofthat word.
We don't, you don't have to takeit on, but make your life
sacred. So have ceremony around what
(17:55):
you're doing. Why not?
Why not make this sacred? And so I love that because when
you're in the midst of a move, you do not have the presence of
mind to recognize this packing of this box and this giving away
as a ceremony. And it only happens after you've
(18:15):
done a few moves, maybe that youlearn what your particular
goodbye ceremony might be. And so to have the presence of
mind, to make that holy, it alsogives you part of your life
back, and it gives a sense of dignity that I think is really
beautiful. It's very important what you say
because it's the creation. So when you move to new place,
(18:37):
it's about this creation of home.
But for me, the creation of homeis really about bringing along
some routines. They're important and they are
needed. And also these ceremonies, as
you mentioned, but it's all sorts of ceremonies.
It's things that I bring in frommy culture, my husband brings in
from his Spanish culture. And we blend it into our, this
(18:59):
is, these are our ceremonies. So this is our sacred space.
And it's even when you, when we move abroad, and we've learned
this with each move, we've, we've developed this, this sort
of ceremony that is ours. So we have these goodbye parties
with everyone where we have these friend books where
everybody signs. We put in the pictures in there
and they are vital, especially when we get to a new place.
(19:21):
I see my kids looking through these friends books and it's,
it's this, this process of digesting this recent move.
So it's all these little ceremonies that we just create
as we go along and they give us the stability that you need to
be able to continue doing this because that's, that's the, the
(19:41):
most important one that people mentioned.
But you know, what about the stability?
What about your kids being on the road?
You know, they need their stability, they need their
routines, they need their friends.
And that's what you need to create.
So it's it's something that we create very consciously.
When we move, it's a new place. So we wrap up the old one.
We close this chapter chapter very mindfully, and then we
(20:02):
start in a new one with these thanks to these routines that
give us that stability. It occurs to me that the
difference between trauma and not trauma is how you, it's not
what happens to you, it's how, what happens after or during
and, and so it, you really can make it the difference between
trauma and not. And that's, that's for all of
(20:23):
life. But maybe people don't realize
that it applies here. And so when you're working with
an individual, a couple, a family, how do you how do you
walk me through that process? What it's different for each
person, I can assume, but what are you?
And it occurs to me that's very much like birth.
(20:44):
I had a midwife when I gave birth to my 3 kids.
She basically gave me the scaffolding and the support to
have my experience, whatever I, whatever that experience wanted
to be. But she was there to hold the
safety, the expected, like what's expected, what's
unexpected, right? Like what are the boundaries and
when to worry, when not to worry, you know exactly?
(21:05):
And just like a midwife, it's, it's, it's interesting, I really
love this, this comparison with the midwife because it's to set
the framework, but to have this flexibility, all these options
in between to choose from that it's not the one way, you know,
if you want to sit on the ball and you can sit on the ball, or
you're talking about midwifing, if you want to, to kneel, you
(21:26):
know, you still have the abilityto choose within the framework.
And so that it's, you still havethis feeling that this is to
you, that, you know, you are deciding on, on how to do this.
And this is your birth, your life basically.
So yes, the way, the way we workis that we start to go quite a
bit back. And so I like to, even though
(21:49):
coaching is about the presence and the future, it's not about
the past, but just for this veryexercise, I love to go back and
just love to hear the experiences as a family, as a
couple, as an individual. You know, how much they've
travelled, how much if they evermoved and what that experience
was like. And it's always interesting
because just the moment we starttalking about their experiences,
(22:09):
they realize how much they actually know already, how
they've done so many things along the way already.
We just forget. And so that is quite an
important exercise to to really start with, with building that
self-confidence. Yes, you know, I can do this,
even though it's quite early in the in the process.
And at that point, people usually are still very doubtful
(22:31):
and just want to see how this isstill too far in distance.
We then work quite a few sessions on our values and our
passions. And when I say passions, it's
not, you know, the classical yougot to have a passion.
It's really just unlayering and understanding.
What is it that really drives you?
What, what is it that makes you get excited about things?
(22:52):
And so it's really about going deeper and then finding the
common ground. And it's an exercise that it's
very powerful because selecting within a list of values, it's,
it's easy peasy, but it is very powerful because you, you really
go much, much deeper than than anticipated.
And once we really get clear on these ones and these are
individual exercises that we then combine in conversations as
(23:15):
a group, or if it's just an individual, then we, we talk
about these. And then once we, we've, I've
really gotten clear about it, westart designing, imagining this
new life abroad. We, we do sort of an exercise to
just picturing it. And that's when the fun starts
because now we really try and see what a day looks like, what
(23:37):
a week looks like, how I really in, in envision what kind of
accommodation, you know, really based on.
Do I want to walk everywhere? Do I want to be really in the
middle of nowhere? Do I need people?
There's so many questions and it's, it's I always see people
assume you sort of first question is so which, which part
of the city is the expat city, you know, which is where.
(23:58):
That's not the point. You know, you don't want to go
into the same bubble. I mean, the whole point of
moving abroad is to actually experience this new place.
So let's see what are the options and what of which of
these options appeal to you? You know, as a, as this new
experience, you don't want to recreate your old life and do it
exactly the same way as the new one because it's not going to
(24:20):
happen. It's all going to be a disaster.
So you may as well just embrace this, this new environment and
make the best of it and try to live, you know, something quite
different from what you've you've been used to.
And that triggers and unleashes so many new situations.
It even helps you to to get to know your partner in a new way
(24:41):
just because your surrounding isdifferent, to rediscover a
different, different strengths of your children.
So it's yeah. So this is.
It's pretty much in short, it's an adventure.
Yes, yes. I want to go back though,
because this works. This process works because I'm
assuming you have people who come to you that both have a
(25:03):
choice and location and actuallydon't have a choice and
location. And so this process works for
either of those. But when they don't have it
location, they just know they need a change.
Do you help them through that process of identifying a place
that might work with their values?
Yeah, that comes after we, we work through the, the values,
(25:24):
the passions and really to, to understanding your why, why
you're doing this. And that's when we really look
at the whole world. And we then start slowly but
surely through a series of questions to really filter down
and making a selection and then another selection and then
really set priorities and understand what is really out of
these, you know, characteristic out of these important points,
(25:47):
which which wins, right. So it's, it's really a very
interesting exercise of even considering places that they've
never even considered just basedon their values and what they
really love and the kind of lifethey they envision.
And it's, it's very interesting how they then come back to
missing, I didn't even look at these options or these, this
(26:09):
continent or this region, and now you've opened this.
So it's my job is really about opening up options and, and
taking informed decisions ratherthan just, oh, I've heard
somebody move to France. And so I want to move to France
because I saw these pictures andit's like, wow, you know,
there's so much more behind it. Yeah.
And it occurs to me that you arehelping them through that
(26:32):
process. But have you seen a big change
in in the reasons people are relocating over the last five
years? What do you when you sense that
someone is running away instead of towards an experienced?
What do you tell them or how do you help them to place that?
It's very interesting when you say that it has indeed changed
(26:52):
over the over the past few years, especially with since
COVID, there was this type of remote work and you know, I can
work from everywhere. And then now with the with the
back to office, it has changed again.
And now there's a lot of people I work with are based on
political reasons for just safety reasons or lifestyle
reasons as well. But what I try to tell them is
(27:14):
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything.
In fact, I even had a family whojust, it just felt right away
they are trying to run away fromsomething they were just not
happy with the way they, they were running their lives right
now. So we looked into it and, and we
analyzed it and they got to, to,to a realization that actually
(27:35):
all they need is to change a fewthings, you know, change a few
ways in their current life rightnow.
They don't need to move abroad to become happy, to become more
intentional, to spend more time with their family.
They can actually do it where they are right now because they
were not able to move away because their parents were
elderly. So it doesn't mean that that's
(27:57):
the only way, but it means getting clear.
Why is it, what is it that I'm, I need?
Why, what change is it I need? Maybe it's a change that I can
apply where I am right now and Ican thrive again.
So it's it's, it's not really about just, you know, a
different country and that's thesolution to all your problems.
(28:17):
It's not. Yeah, because it is a massive
commitment in time, in money, intransformation, in emotional.
And so it's not, it's again, like I hate to keep bringing it
back to having kids, but like it's not having a child will not
fix a relationship. And similar, and I say this with
a lot of respect, but if you're having problems in your
(28:40):
relationship and you think a changing country will change
that without some other kinds ofwork, the saying wherever you
go, there you are applies here. And I found that to be true in
my own life and in friends lives.
Your relationship patterns follow you.
What I would say, the caveat I would put to that is a change in
(29:01):
scenery can and usually does change power dynamics for better
or worse. And it is an opportunity to
change things. But doing that without a lot of
awareness is a dangerous and expensive game.
Yes, it's a risky 1 and that's why it's my goal is always to,
(29:22):
you know, not beautify. It's not Instagramable pictures
everywhere. You know, it's, it's not, I
really insist that you got to, to look at the, you know, make
it very realistic so that peoplereally know what they're up
against. And then they can decide, am I
ready for this? Do I feel I can do this?
But if I don't know the whole the full picture, then it's it's
(29:42):
really hard. And once you know it and you
take decision, that is very empowering.
And that is it's yeah, it's yeah.
It makes a very nutritious experience instead of a
superficial 1. You still get the beautiful
Instagram photos, by the way, with the siding, a side of
satisfaction of knowing you're living your values and that
(30:03):
you're actually doing something that you really want and to
invest in. And again, for me, it's a lot
like having children. Like when I have three children,
when someone asked me if they should have children, I say it
depends. The same way I ask if people say
should I move abroad? I'm like, listen, is it
something you want? Because it's a big in time
investment, It's a lot of paperwork.
(30:25):
Is it worth it? It totally is.
You should totally move abroad and you should totally have
children if you're willing to dedicate the time that is
required for the happiness that comes out the other side.
It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone.
That it's also quite important to say, you know, it's not the
only way there's many different ways of doing this and it's and
what I also say you don't have to sell your house right away
(30:48):
and move to Bali next week. Maybe you can just start trying
it out. Maybe you go for a vacation for
a month somewhere or you take a three month sabbatical.
Just get a taste of it and then if you feel like, you know, this
actually adds to our relationship.
This really makes me happy. This really, I, I feel there's
some transformation happening. You know, this is, this helps me
thriving. Then you can expand and, you
(31:11):
know, maybe go bigger and, and bolder, but it's not, it's not
about one or the other. Well, with kids, it's a bit
different. Obviously you can borrow your,
your sisters and you know, try it out whatever we see.
Yeah, kids are a little different that way, but I do
think that it's really easy to think that you can run away and
everything will be different. And it's just not.
(31:33):
It's not it. What I would say is it's an
adventure of a lifetime and there's no other way to
transform and know yourself in the way that moving to another
culture does. You learn about yourself in a
way that is transformative and you you can't get that
experience any other way. And so it almost happens to you.
Yes, and it's what I like because this transformation,
(31:56):
it's allowing yourself to reinvent yourself, yourself and
your children. And I've seen it with my with my
kids that my daughter was very shy and very drawn in.
And that seemed like it was her,you know, her stumble on her
forehead. I'm shy.
That's it. And then we moved from Northern
Ireland to to Switzerland and suddenly, I don't know if it was
(32:18):
the, the surrounding or the new class or some, some of the girls
who just got this, this very outgoing personality out of her.
And she just completely transformed.
Now, if we had stayed back, maybe she would have, but not in
this, in this, you know, thriving way of just, you know,
being able to just reinvent herself and, you know, being
allowed to suddenly be somebody else.
(32:39):
And then seeing that actually itworks.
And it's, and she she, you couldtell she really enjoys this new
her. And so the same is with us
adults that we think we are one way and then we actually allowed
to try out different things. And I'm not saying that we are
faking it, but we're trying out different personalities of
different ways of being, of behaving, of, of living your
(33:01):
life and, and back home, you wouldn't be allowed to do it
because everybody was like you said, like you know what you're
doing, you know, we all know you.
And so it's, it's, I think that is a big experience that is not
spoken about. It's not spoken about, but it
definitely if you do move to thepartner and a long term partner,
if you don't know that's what's happening and that's possible,
(33:22):
it can be very scary if your partner's changing and trying on
new things and everything from small things to big things,
right? Exactly.
And it's, it's when the, the first few times I remember my my
partner telling me how you've changed because you've never
been like this. And and I tried to reframe it.
Is that a positive thing or a negative thing?
Because I feel that it's positive.
(33:44):
We are evolving, we're changing.If we always it was the same, if
we're stuck in that same place, that's quite sad.
Yeah. And, and that is the gift and
the Crucible of living in different places because we all
have maybe it's less known or less accepted that there are
many selves inside and people who speak multiple languages.
(34:05):
I'm not one of them, but I have been told that when you speak a
different language, different parts of you come out.
So you have at least my kids tell me when they speak Dutch,
they feel like they have a certain part of them.
When they speak English, they have a certain part of them.
And so I want to talk about thata little bit because you that
was a big value for you personally when with your moves
once you had children was language mastery.
(34:26):
And, and tell me about that. Tell me about that process and
how how it's turned out because your children are now older.
Yes, so, so we were in Spain, wehad moved from London to Spain.
And so they all started school and I remember that they and
they started English as a secondlanguage.
And so it was common that all the other parents would send
(34:47):
their kids to, you know, after school activities, English after
school activities, twice a week.So I was thinking if that's what
I have to do with three kids twice a week, taking them to
these English classes, apart from the cost and the time, you
know, it's quite an investment. And then I would listen to older
kids speaking English like poorly, I thought this is this
(35:08):
is not, this is not what I want to do.
So we really wanted to. So we said, let's go to an
English speaking country, immerse them and then they've
got perfect beautiful English and that's it.
And then we come back. That was the initial plan.
It was just to go there for a couple of years and then come
back to Spain. And that's when we decided for
Northern Ireland because we wanted to something quite, you
know, something. So we didn't want to go back to
(35:29):
London and warming up a cold soup in a sense.
So we wanted to experience something new.
So it was this hidden gem and the education system is one of
the best in Northern Ireland. So we decided for that.
Plus my husband is a is an avid surfer.
So that was edition one and it was amazing.
Within three months they spoke absolutely beautiful Northern
(35:54):
Irish English with a Northern Irish accent.
And that's what they kept. They've changed.
Their accent is now quite softened, but that's something
they've taken with them. So from there it I felt like,
you know, if this is so easy, let's take the next steps.
So we went to the Switzerland today.
I spoke to them in German, but they never they were not able to
read and write in German. So that's when we decided for
(36:16):
Switzerland. So they would go to German
school, the whole German education also during.
So they were between four and eight years old and, and that
each time the education Switzerland is focused on the
outdoors, on the social skills and the arts.
So that was something that I wasreally, you know, I could relate
to. I didn't want them to just, you
know, sit 8 hours, which is whatthey do in, in more
(36:39):
Mediterranean countries where it's, you know, lots of theory.
I wanted them to, you know, experience an education system
that is quite alternative, let'ssay.
So that's what we did in those years.
And then from there, I wanted tothey hold an Italian passport,
but then didn't speak Italian. So our thinking was let's go to
the, to, to an Italian part of Switzerland.
And so again, it was an immersion, zero language
(37:02):
knowledge by them. And within three months they
started, you know, even started moving their hands and it was
the whole, the whole bit. And so after that experience,
two years in Lugano, we then decided to come back to Spain
now, so to, to, to strengthen their roots because that is
always a bit of a risk. Home is everywhere but nowhere.
(37:24):
So we really wanted to, to, yeah, strengthen their roots
before they then go off. And now it's quite interesting
because my eldest, he turns 18 this summer, because you were
asking before how that it has turned out.
And so now he's, he's ready to go to university.
And so he's been looking at all these universities and now he
decided to go to, to the Netherlands out of all the
(37:47):
places because they, it's, it's an English, it's all taught in
English. And he just feels he wants to be
surrounded by by international people, make good use of all the
languages he speaks. Now he speaks 5 languages and so
Dutch eventually will be his sixth one.
So that's quite interesting. It's it comes full circle.
And So what I hear you saying islanguage was your guide through
(38:10):
your children's childhood and your life with your children in
their childhood that guided you.And then you had a goal of
having them have a strong base in Spain.
And so that was your, that's right.
That was kind of, whether or notyou knew it at the time, that
was what was guiding your decisions, whether they were
intuitive because there was no one doing this at the time,
(38:30):
right? Like you were.
You were a pioneer. We never had a plan.
It was always we only had a two year plan and then things just
evolved and we realized things also in between.
For each birth of my children, Iwould go back to my home place.
So we would live there for six months and the kids would go to
kindergarten school there just so that they have their little
(38:50):
roots there as well. It's, it's quite hard because
you know, they're third culture kids.
So it means they, you have to celebrate 2 cultures plus the
one where they are growing up in.
So it is true. My background is linguistics and
that's why I have this. It's, it's, it's a, it's an
important thing for me and I consider it being a gift for my
(39:14):
children. It's the biggest gift I can give
to my children. So that's quite an individual
thing for me, focusing on the languages and education system
as such, whereas other people have, have different priorities.
And that's what we work out in, in, in the work I do with them
to figure out what is your priority?
What is it that guides you? What's your guiding star?
(39:34):
Yeah, and that's super importantand it is.
But I share. So my guiding, my guiding light
was I wanted to give my childrena language.
And when people say they speak alanguage and they have a
language, I think there's a big difference.
I wanted them to have a second language and that experience of
having a second language. And so that required that they
leave, get it, start having it in their body relatively early,
(39:55):
which is what my my husband and I had the goal of.
They couldn't live their past. They had to start being
bilingual. By the time they were five, that
was the absolute cut off. And we moved to the Netherlands
the day my son turned 5. Wow, So not a moment too soon,
but those goals are my, I guess my point in telling you that
story is these goals are important.
Otherwise no one's going to helpyou make these.
(40:17):
Everything leads to staying in asingle location.
And so if you have these goals, it's really important to name
them. Well, first identify them, name
them and then then put action tothem because you're the only one
that's going to make this happen.
If these are your your values. And so when, as you guide
couples through this values, youhelp them through the transition
(40:37):
where what is the process wrapping up the process with you
look like? And I'm sure it's your clients
can always call you re engage. But as a coach, what is the
completion of that first phase of values and and relocation?
Tell me about that. So, so there's two options.
It's either, you know, the work we do before a relocation, so in
(40:58):
preparation of a relocation, normally around six months
before moving, or even if you don't have even an idea of a
date or a location or anything. So it's really just getting
started. And that's four sessions or four
weeks where we really focus on the pre, on the preparation, but
also on the mindset where I workon, you know, reset to 0
mindset, sort of get rid of all these expectations or if you
(41:21):
have expectations, manage them realistically.
And then it really gets over to the actual move.
And that's when it gets more practical.
So I guide them throughout the move, but also post move.
And that's quite an important one, just like in birth.
And I really like this, this comparison, you know, everything
works towards the birth, the date of the birth, you prepare
(41:42):
it all perfectly, but you can never really prepare the
afterwards. Yeah.
And so just like, yes, this the after birth depression, all
sorts of different symptoms thatcan occur that you're not really
prepared for. The same is with the relocation.
And I've noticed there is usually about 3 months into the
relocation into being in your place, three to six months.
(42:05):
There's a big low where you think you actually, you're over
your initial dopamine and adrenaline and, and everything
and actually start settling. And there's lots of things that
you notice that don't go exactlythe way you thought they would
go. And that's when you start
questioning your decision is this, was this the right
decision? And we all have this dip.
(42:26):
And I think it's important to understand it will happen.
And the key is how to prepare for it to, to, to go through it
more easily and just while stillthriving.
And so it's it's quite importantthat the guidance doesn't finish
the moment you move, but there'sstill especially the settling in
and this dip this three months low that we prepared for it and
(42:48):
then we plan around it. Yeah, for me, it's very
important in birth and in relocation and and immigration
to realize that millions of years of women and millions of
years of people have experiencedthis before.
So anything I'm feeling probablyisn't new.
And so that for me helps me feelget through these or it did help
(43:08):
me get through the, you know, things that may have seemed
unovercomable become overcomeable when you know that
you're not the only one that's experienced it.
But having a guide to tell you, just like when I had my babies,
like this is going to happen probably within these few days.
This is going to happen within these.
It really helps you not to freakout and keep perspective.
(43:32):
And so that is a similar thing. For me, it took a lot longer to
have that because of how we moved and we were doing it
completely on our own. And then my partner had
different phases. He wasn't here here until a few
years in, so he was still traveling quite a bit.
So we were in that first phase for quite a long time.
Actually. The honeymoon phase or feeling
(43:53):
like you live on a vacation phase lasted a lot longer for
us. And part of that, I think, is
because we prepared well. Like we got to live the sweet
moments of that a lot longer because we knew our values and
we knew why we were doing these hard things.
So I think that really made a difference.
Without knowing it, we were coming up with our values as a
family and and living them. Yeah.
(44:13):
Fantastic. But I do wish you're.
Driving. Yeah.
I mean, different years are different, but I wish we would
have had Someone Like You to give us that perspective.
And so I'm really happy that you're doing the work you're
doing because I do think there'sa new kind of person who's
attempting this and it does well.
It's not just those of us who were digital nomads in the early
(44:34):
2000s and now we're growing up and we're questioning things if
people who really do need a different kind of life just to
live their own personal journey.And I feel like there's a
different kind of person attempting this.
And that calls for a different kind of guidance.
And that makes it generative forthe people, but also the place
(44:54):
they're going. Because if traumatized people
show up in a place, that also affects the place.
And so I think the work you're doing is very important for this
new, what I see as a as an additional population of people
who are attempting this type of life living values based around
the world, anywhere can be the place that they're aligned with
(45:15):
their values. This is somewhat new in in our
generations. And so, yeah, I just appreciate
what you're doing. Thanks.
So how I'm mindful of your time.So I want to wrap up.
How can people get a hold of you?
What is what is the ideal time for someone if they're thinking
of maybe even having a stirring of I may want to live abroad?
How does that work? I think it's usually it's people
(45:38):
who who just have the thought, what if, you know, what if?
And it's still very, very early days and they only just started
talking about it. So I always say, the moment you
have these thoughts, write it down, you know, put it into
words, speak to somebody, speak to your partner, to your friends
about it. And that's the initiation of
this new process and of this newchapter.
(45:58):
And then it's really about getting help to getting clearer
because it's a lot of there's somuch information.
And I think it's even harder now, you know, you think, now
you've got all these, you know, you've got all the information
is online, you've got ChatGPT who can help you with anything,
but it's too much information. Rather than looking for the
information out there, you know,look for the information in here
(46:19):
because it's all in you. It just needs to be sorted and
ordered and put into words and into thoughts, you know, proper
thoughts rather than having all these hairs in your mind that
you would like to. But there's all these spots and
all these things that keep you back.
And so that's where it really helps.
So it's really about asking the right questions so that you get
to think about the things that that help you take a decision
(46:41):
or, you know, just developing this idea, whichever shape or
form that takes on, because you know, you can even invent
something completely new. There's millions of ways of just
doing this, of creating a new life anywhere.
So it's, that's really the, the basic.
So my, my message is, is really to listen to yourself.
And if you have this snagging voice, like positively nagging
(47:04):
voice that just makes you feel like the small to it make in
give it, give it space, createspace for that for that
because it's not going to go away.
You may end up just suppressing it at some point.
It will come out enough. I'm speaking with a lot of
people also who, who now have their their kids who just leave
the nest. And it's people who always
(47:27):
wanted to do this kind of experience and now they feel
like now is the time. But everyone else around you
tells you, what are you going todo?
You know, at your age, where areyou going to go at your age?
And and that's when you want somebody who actually believes
in you more than you believe in yourself to be able to, to
actually start this process and just doing it.
(47:47):
So true. So listen to yourself as usual.
But there's people who have donethis and people who want, want
to help you do this, and you're one of them.
And so and do it successfully ina way that you.
Yeah, you can think about. You've had a life on your own
terms successfully. That's beautiful.
All right. Well, people can reach you.
What's the best way through yourwebsite?
(48:10):
Yes. So it's my website,
doriusdario.com. I'm also on LinkedIn again,
Dorius Dario and I've got a newsletter and I've also
published a book this early January.
It's called The Digital Nomad Family and it's a guidance for
people who have the thought to see what if.
And it's really just a guide to get with lots of questions, lots
(48:32):
of exercises to really get into the mood and get into just, you
know, looking into it and seeingwhat are the options, how could
this look like for me? So it is part story of mine,
part incentive and invitation tojust give it a thought.
And you know, perhaps this couldbe something for you.
Yeah, that's great. That's awesome because buying a
(48:53):
book is a lot is a good first step to seeing if this journey
could be right for you. And then if people want to reach
out, they can they can make a consult with you to do you have
like a consult that they first can talk to you.
Yes. So it's, it's a free discovery
call. I call it a free, a free
clarification call to just just get clear on what is it they're
looking for right now and how isit?
(49:15):
Could I possibly help them and and guide them in this process?
Perfect. All right, so everyone reach out
to Doris if you're having this little nagging, beautiful
thought that you might want to live a little bit differently or
in a different place. I want to thank you for coming
on, Doris. I think this has been a
delightful conversation and hopefully illuminating for
people who didn't realize this kind of coaching was available
(49:38):
in the world. I always say living abroad is an
additional life stage and what your work is, is feeling that
exact niche that I think is so important.
So thank you for coming on. Thank you for joining us and
sharing your wisdom, and thank you everyone for listening to
the House of Peregrine podcast. I am happy to share this with
you today and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
(49:59):
Thanks so much, Miguel. OK, that's it for today.
I hope you've enjoyed our show. For the latest insights on
living internationally, join us at houseofperegrine.com to find
out how you can connect with ourcommunity.
Let's craft a life story with intention, together.
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