In honor of Keti Koti, the Dutch remembrance of the abolition of slavery, this week’s House of Peregrine Podcast features a powerful conversation with Rashi Favier, content creator, activist, and stand-up comedian.
Rashi moved from India to the Netherlands just before the pandemic. In her words, she “became a person of color overnight.” What follows is a raw and revealing reflection on race, privilege, and identity, from navigating caste and class privilege in India to experiencing racism and othering for the first time in Europe.
Through humor and honesty, Rashi shares how she began using her voice to challenge social norms, explore feminist truths, and connect across cultural lines. Her story is a timely reminder of the power of awareness, especially in moments of remembrance like Keti Koti.
✨ Key Moments
- Becoming a Person of Color Overnight – Rashi’s shift in racial identity upon arriving in Amsterdam
- Privilege in Two Worlds – From caste/class privilege to being marginalized
- Colonial Residue – The legacy of colonization on gender and social norms
- Racism in Real Time – A deeply personal story from Amsterdam’s De Pijp
- Why She Speaks Up – Humor, honesty, and using her platform for good
🎧 Listen now on
Spotify | Apple Podcasts
📲 Follow Rashi
Instagram: @rashifavier
TikTok: @rashifavier
🔗 Full episode at: houseofperegrine.com/podcast/ep-018
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Mikkel Weber, founder and auteur of House of
Peregrine. Expat, immigrant, pioneer.
None of these were a fit, but Peregrine describes what we are
all about perfectly, those that craft their life story with
intention. I've spent the last six years in
awe of the life changing connections and stories I've
(00:23):
experienced while living abroad and believe it is time for this
adventure to be recognized, celebrated, and elevated to the
life stage that it is. Through these interviews, I hope
to connect those living internationally more deeply to
both the place they are living and with themselves and those
around them. We cover everything from
international finances and meaning making to global
(00:46):
parenting and relationships to make your time abroad more
intentional, edifying and full of beauty.
Find us at houseofperegrine.com where you can find more ways to
connect with the ethos of Peregrine.
I hope you enjoy today's guest. Let's get started.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine
podcast. I'm Michael Weber, and this week
(01:07):
we are celebrating Ketikati, theDutch celebration of the
abolition of slavery. So we thought we'd bring a
conversation with our own Rashi Favier.
She shed some light on how othering and racism is still a
reality worldwide. Rashi moved to the Netherlands
from India just before the pandemic and in her words,
became a person of color overnight.
In this clip, she talks about what it means to confront
(01:28):
privilege, experience racial othering for the first time as
an adult, and the journey of finding her voice and going
viral as a content creator and activist.
It's a raw, revealing and important conversation that I
feel privileged to bring to you today.
Thanks so much and enjoy the episode.
So I want to, I want to start out because I think when, when
(01:48):
we spoke earlier, I really was struck by this notion of you're
coming to the Netherlands, bringing new awareness to your
own privilege and your own placein the world.
So can you speak, tell us that story if you would?
Yes, I think in India, privilegeplays a really big part in how
you grow up there. And I have a lot of privileges
(02:11):
in India. I have cost privilege, class
privilege. Also my skin tone.
There's so many things that are,you know, going for me there.
And I was always aware of that and I always tried to use my
privilege for, you know, bringing awareness and doing
something good. And I think moving to the
(02:32):
Netherlands suddenly shows you the real class divide, also in a
country where you move to. So I feel like you just hear
things or things happen to you or the way people treat you is
so different based on how much privilege you have, which I
think is so unfair. And when I moved to the
Netherlands, I saw that kind of immediately because suddenly you
(02:57):
are a person of color, where in India I was just a person.
So I saw a lot of things that I never had to deal with that I,
you know, when I landed in Netherlands, I suddenly was
faced with them. Not to say I didn't still have
tons of privilege here as well, but it's just something that,
you know, you have to kind of face in your like, I moved here
(03:20):
when I was 31. So it's something you just have
to like be aware of suddenly, which I found sort of
interesting. And that sort of made me want to
talk about it because I was sureother people were figuring this
out as well. So also then taking that
privilege and then using it to talk about it, because I could
talk about it and I had a voice.Were you shocked?
(03:43):
Was it completely unexpected? Would you say this, this new
awareness or these realizations?Were you?
Would you describe it as shock or would you describe it as
something? No, I don't think I was shocked.
I'm pretty aware of how, yeah, if you're not white, how you're
treated in the world. I've seen it first hand.
Also, if when I've been around white people in India, you can
(04:03):
see instantly how they're treated, you know better.
So I wasn't shocked. I think it was just like, it was
a feeling that I hadn't experienced before, like the the
first time I faced racism in thein Amsterdam, it was just a
bodily feeling that I've never felt before.
So it was just very different and something I wanted to
(04:27):
explore, like where, how does this feeling manifest and how,
what is making me feel? Because in India I am the
oppressor. So I also wanted to learn about
it this, this feeling from different points of views and
ways. So yeah, it was more just
interesting. Yeah, that's really, it's really
(04:49):
beautiful the way you say it, that you you went from feeling
or being the oppressor in one case to being something the
oppressed in another or the lesser.
So you would describe it in whenyou lived in India, growing up
there, that you saw people beingmore privileged, but you never
felt like you were oppressed. I think India, the only thing
(05:11):
where I feel oppressed is because I'm a woman and India is
a very patriarchal society. So definitely, that's why I also
talk about feminism a lot in my content because that's the one
way I really felt that, you know, it's unfair in my sort of
experience, but I was also really aware of how much
(05:31):
privilege I have based on cost and class and all of these other
things. So that's the difference, I
think. But definitely that also brings
across here, here also here. It's not an equal society if you
think of genders and the sexist.So here is just an added layer,
I think. And it's, yeah, it's very
interesting how different societies decide how much, you
(05:56):
know, privilege you get based onjust something, something that
you can't decide or choose for yourself.
So yeah. And would you mind I have my own
interpretation of this because Ialso came from a very
patriarchal place. But I would love to hear how you
experience that, where you're from, which can we tell people
from which part of India are you?
(06:17):
Did you? But I'm North Indian but I grew
up in South India. OK.
And what is that like if I know nothing because I'm I don't
explain what that means. Like what are the people like
where you're from or? Well, I, I grew up, I always
say, from a small town of 3 million people, which, yeah,
(06:38):
it's, it's funny, but this is true.
It's it's a smaller towns, it's a bit more chill, more relaxed,
but the inequality of the sexes is very inherent in the society.
So it's not really geographically doesn't matter
where you are. It's just how the culture is and
how you know you're treated differently just because you're
(06:59):
a woman. And I think the biggest thing is
the safety for women. So it's not safe to be outside
as a child if you're a girl, if it's not safe to walk, you know,
by yourself at night, even sometimes even the during the
day, there's a lot of cat calling.
There's a lot of sort of staring.
(07:20):
It depends on what you're wearing a lot.
Like if you are wearing something that is not
acceptable, you can get blamed for something that happens to
you. So it's a lot of victim blaming.
I have to say my family is amazing.
So I was not raised sort of inequal to like my brother.
So it was in my family, it was avery nice environment.
(07:43):
But you know, there are relatives and there are people
who want to always comment on things.
And also women are supposed to do certain things.
And if you deviate from that, you're sort of like a bad woman
or you can't be outspoken. You have to sort of just lay low
and do the things that society has deemed for you like.
(08:03):
And I think the biggest thing for me was marriage, because
marriage is sort of big part of Indian culture and it's
something you just have to do. And this is not just for women,
this is also for men. So I think marriage was the
biggest thing. That was sort of, I was, yeah.
I didn't feel like I wanted to do exactly what people were
(08:24):
telling me to do or like, I wasn't super for arranged
marriage. It works for a lot of people.
It just, it was not for me. But I felt like, yeah, as a
woman, you really have to navigate that because you have
to make a lot of sacrifices if you, you know, get married and,
yeah, do certain things that society just wants you to do.
(08:46):
And if you just want something different, you're you're not
allowed. So that's sort of, yeah, the
dynamic. That makes sense.
I want to ask. I want to back up, but then I
want to go more into this. But what in your where you grew
up or in India in general, either is fine.
What is that divide based on? In in where I'm from, it's like
(09:08):
based on religion. Religion kind of backs up this
servitude of women and all this stuff.
But is it the same? Is it just what would you say
it's based on what? What gives that notion that
women should be less than men ortreated differently?
I'm not a history expert, but I think this is what I have read
or sort of this is my information.
(09:29):
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is I think this is
comes from just the perfection of a patriarchal society.
And I know that a lot of it was colonial.
So the British brought a lot of their Christian values when they
colonized India. So like the dowry system or
(09:50):
women being property. And if you look before the
colonization from Britain, whichwas 302 hundred 300 years, women
were much freer. You know, women would roam
around like topless with just like a things.
If you see our ancient scriptures, you know, there's so
much sort of nudity. There is also like there's a lot
(10:13):
of sex, like freedom of sex, like sexual, you know, like
Kamasutra comes from India. So I know a lot of it comes from
colonization, but I'm, I don't know if it's, that's what all of
it is. But to me, it's like, see, it's
just how it has been perfected to become like a patriarchal
(10:34):
society. Wow, you've just taught me
something new. I also.
When I learned that I was shocked.
But but I, I definitely, I my knowledge of all so many things
just doesn't. And I have to keep reading
because yeah, when you are also the oppressor, you are not super
knowledgeable and a lot of things.
I've also started reading up a lot about anti anti caste
(10:56):
things. I've followed a lot of accounts.
I want to learn more about casteism because it is so well
and alive in India right now. And people sort of deflected by
saying, oh, it's used to be a thing of the past, which is just
so not true. So yeah.
Can you explain that just a little bit?
I think I know what it is, but would you mind just telling us
(11:16):
briefly an overview of what a caste system is?
So a caste system is where the people are divided into 4
categories and the lower categories the lower caste and
they include a certain sections.So Adivasi, Boja and Dalit and
they are just is not afforded the rights as the rest of the
(11:37):
three caste divisions would have.
They get jobs that are not, yeah, like considered dirty or
lower for people to do. Just so I know this is based on
lineage then. Yes.
Is it based on? Lineage.
So who? Your father?
No. No, no, you're not, but you're
helping me understand. So it's not based on like how
(11:59):
much money you have. It's based on who your ancestors
might have. Also is based on how much money
you have because historically upper caste Brahman like cast
have hoarded a lot of land and money.
So it does sort of have an effect on who then gets to have
money now based on lineage of course.
So. So it's all super interconnected
(12:21):
and yeah. Not it.
OK, I know you told me you're not the expert, but you're the
expert to me right now. So thank you for answering my
questions. OK, so you didn't know why you
were being treated differently as a woman when you went outside
of your house. You just, it's just part of your
culture. Like that's the water you were
swimming in. Yeah.
And I see because of the difference in my home and
outside. I just, I think I questioned it
(12:42):
more maybe because my home was different than other people and
I also saw my friends, they weretreated differently than from
their parents. So like it was just a bit like I
was questioning a lot. I was questioning a lot of
things like why does why do theyget to go out and I don't just
because I'm a woman and why do Inot get to wear this?
Like I was just questioning a lot, which also you're not
(13:04):
supposed to do. No questioning.
So is that just a thing in the culture or you're you just knew
inherently you weren't supposed to question I.
Think you're been when people tell you don't question
anything, you just. It's just out and open just like
a fact. Yeah, that makes total sense.
I'm wondering because it sounds a lot like high, high demand
(13:27):
religions where they say don't question.
And so when I see that in like amore, when I hear you saying
that in a more like a not religious context, it makes me
very curious. So I, I, I want to dive in, but
OK. So you were always questioning.
It sounds like you were, well, for whatever reason, you always
(13:48):
felt a little different or like you were always kind of
wondering and questioning when you weren't supposed to.
And so do you think that was what made you always think you
wanted to live abroad or tell usthat story about eventually,
eventually studying abroad? I think it stems from what I
said about like just wanting different things.
(14:08):
And it's either, yeah, you don'thave examples of that around
you, or you don't think you can have different things because
that's just not the norm. And this is before social media,
Internet. So your world view was very much
what was around you or movies orTV and not really other people
(14:28):
living in other countries. You didn't have a worldview
because you didn't have a way tosee anything because the
Internet was not a thing. So I think when I was teenager,
I just like, I don't know, I just wanted different things.
And I, I think I was influenced by a lot of American TV sitcoms.
I just wanted like, you know, like a free life.
(14:50):
I just, I feel like I didn't want to just do the thing where
you study, get married, have kids, you know, and a lot of
women don't work. And that's changing now.
But when I was growing up, like,a lot of women didn't work.
And there was a set role for people and I just wanted
different things. I just didn't know what.
But I knew I didn't want that. I knew what I didn't want.
(15:12):
So I think moving abroad was not, was me just wanting a bit
more freedom to choose what I wanted and it could have been
possible in India, but it's justsomething that I felt like would
be easier, I guess abroad. And I also wanted to travel.
I think I also loved wanted, I think I wanted to explore more
(15:36):
cultures because I saw this on, you know, TV or movies.
And I thought it was so interesting that there are
people who can be so different, but also they're humans and
yeah, just to meet different kinds of people, which again, if
I lived in a bigger city in India, I would not maybe think
like how I thought, but I lived in a smaller town where we
(15:56):
didn't have a lot to do or, you know, we have the same people
around us, like a small town sort of thing.
So I think if I didn't grow up there, I might be different,
like if I grew up in Mumbai or Delhi or something.
But yeah, that's what sort of like, I just didn't want that.
I wanted something else and I didn't know how else to get it I
guess. I highly know what you're
(16:19):
talking about. I don't know what I wanted, but
I knew what I didn't want that Icould have.
I, I can, I think me and a lot of people listening to this can
can relate. So that led you to studying in
London, is that right? Yes.
So I wanted to do something creative.
I know like for my studies I studied Fine Arts and then I
(16:42):
really wanted to do fashion and I really wanted to study abroad
because it just looked like so much fun.
And I think in like I went to London 2010 and around then
social media was like a little bit of a thing, Internet was a
thing. So I also saw a lot of people
doing it that you could not study abroad.
And I got into London College ofFashion, which was a big, like,
(17:04):
moment because I didn't think I would.
And then my parents let me go. And it was amazing.
I think it was my first and, like, what do you say?
View of the world outside of my little sort of world that I saw.
And I, to be honest, I loved it.I was 21.
(17:25):
It was amazing. So I think that's where the
insect bit me for like, you know, exploring different things
and. Yeah.
The insect bit me. I love that you got the you got
the bug. We always say you got like the
bug. No, I like the way you said it.
Actually, I'm going to start saying that that's amazing.
(17:47):
And so you studied in Europe andfelt felt like you wanted to
remain abroad. And so tell us about, I really
want to know because you were inLondon and that's was it more
international. Why do you think when you came
to the Netherlands, it was that you felt?
(18:09):
I love this phrase that you use because it I I can relate in a
different way, but you just suddenly became a person of
color overnight. I love that you said that, I'd
love that you're living that, but why do you think?
Can you tell us about that moment?
Because you you were obviously younger and all these things.
So a lot comes with age and experience and also social
(18:31):
movements going on. I.
Think the biggest was that I wasa student.
I think student life is so different than actually living
somewhere because you don't haveto deal with a lot of things.
And I think England and London just in general has a lot of
Indians. So you don't really, you're
like, you're like a part of the crowd, I feel like.
And again, it was I was young and maybe I did face racism back
(18:54):
then, but I just didn't know it was that.
I think I was just also a bit more aware of why people treat
you a certain way. I think I was very naive back
then. And yeah, I also, I only had a
visa for two years in London, soI knew I was gonna go back.
It's not like I could stay there.
So I I knew I had to study and leave again, so I didn't.
(19:18):
So you do experience a place when you're when it's temporary,
you may experience it differently.
That makes a lot of sense too. Yeah.
So when you came to the Netherlands, it felt like you
wanted to make it a little more permanent.
So that's one way. So can you describe like that
moment or if there was a moment where you're just like, oh, wow,
this is something completely different.
(19:40):
I I would love to hear that story if you have in.
The Netherlands you mean? Yeah, in the Netherlands, I
mean, that moment, it's again sopowerful to me that you say
overnight I became a person of color.
Like that's an amazing notion, so.
What? Really.
Yeah, I think it was the job search, sort of.
Experience because I had to immediately.
(20:02):
I even started looking before I moved.
And then when I moved I was still looking for jobs and I
knew a lot of Dutch people when I moved here.
And then they would tell me likeyou should probably put their
block letters that you have a visa to work here because just
because you have an Indian name,they will probably throw away a
resume like a multiple people told that to me.
(20:23):
It's not like one person, you know, and then just the fact
that you're Indian on a resume, they would just not pay
attention to it or, or, or the other side, which is like, oh,
you're brown. So you might actually get in on
diversity, Koda or something. Like you hear all of these
things I've never heard about before.
(20:44):
So I think that was when I was like, oh, so this actually
matters. And then for sure, the first
time I face like blatant racism in the pipe, which is like the
most like international area of Amsterdam.
And I really that that whole experience just changed my sort
(21:04):
of like, wow, you will actually discriminate against me just
because of who I look like, you know?
Tell us that. Do you mind telling us that
story about being in the pipe and that?
Well, I've, yeah, I've also madea TikTok about it, but it's
there was, I was in a pop up shop.
I was like working in a like a with a brand and we were doing
(21:24):
like a pop up shop. And this woman, this older Dutch
woman came in to try on clothes and there were three of us in
the store. None of us were Dutch.
So it was not because I was not Dutch.
The other two people were white French and Danish and I was
Indian. And she would just not talk to
me. She was just not talk to me.
(21:45):
I would ask her a question. She would just ignore me and
wait for those people to come out.
And like, I, I thought I did something because that's
immediately what you do. You, you go inward and see what
you did. And, and somehow you represent
1.3 billion Indians because if you do something, you're ruining
the names of Indians. But white people never have that
(22:06):
responsibility. If one white person does
something doesn't mean the entire, you know, culture gets a
black mark. But I thought I was doing
something wrong. So I started complimenting her
like that color looks really good on you cuz I know like
people love that compliment. But and then she just was like
not talking. And then she was smiling and I
(22:28):
smiled back and she's like, no, no, no, I'm not smiling at you.
I'm smiling at her. And it was not because I didn't
speak Dutch because the other two didn't.
It was not because I was not Dutch, because the other people
were not because I know that's like, you know, you get annoyed
that people don't speak Dutch inyour country.
I get that. But yeah, so that was just like,
and I felt it like visceral in my body.
(22:49):
Like I felt it. It wasn't something I felt she
was. She doesn't want to engage with
me because what I because there's nothing else.
And I still doubted myself, but I couldn't doubt the feeling I
was feeling. That was a very like, like my
hands were shaking. I was feeling shame.
It was so many different things.And then I told some people what
(23:13):
happened and they were like, Raji, that's racism.
Like they had to the white people had to tell me like that.
That woman was, you know, and, and also then some people told
me like this is common because in, in the Netherlands, it's a
bit under the radar. This was before I made content
and everything because now I have a lot of hate, racist
(23:35):
comments. But you know, you kind of see
the reality a little bit. But back then I just, I knew
this existed. But when it happens to you, you,
you do get like, wow, is this what it feels like?
Thank you so much for listening.As we honor Kedikati, may we
continue to listen, reflect, anduse our voices to challenge the
legacies of oppression worldwide, just like Rashi does
(23:58):
with her courage and clarity. You can hear her full episode by
following the link in the show notes.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
OK, that's it for today. I hope you've enjoyed our show.
For the latest insights on living internationally, join us
at houseofperegrine.com to find out how you can connect with our
community. Let's craft our life story with
(24:18):
intention, together.
Hi, I'm Mikkel Weber, founder and auteur of House of
Peregrine. Expat, immigrant, pioneer.
None of these were a fit, but Peregrine describes what we are
all about perfectly, those that craft their life story with
intention. I've spent the last six years in
awe of the life changing connections and stories I've
(00:23):
experienced while living abroad and believe it is time for this
adventure to be recognized, celebrated, and elevated to the
life stage that it is. Through these interviews, I hope
to connect those living internationally more deeply to
both the place they are living and with themselves and those
around them. We cover everything from
international finances and meaning making to global
(00:46):
parenting and relationships to make your time abroad more
intentional, edifying and full of beauty.
Find us at houseofperegrine.com where you can find more ways to
connect with the ethos of Peregrine.
I hope you enjoy today's guest. Let's get started.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine
podcast. I'm Michael Weber, and this week
(01:07):
we are celebrating Ketikati, theDutch celebration of the
abolition of slavery. So we thought we'd bring a
conversation with our own Rashi Favier.
She shed some light on how othering and racism is still a
reality worldwide. Rashi moved to the Netherlands
from India just before the pandemic and in her words,
became a person of color overnight.
In this clip, she talks about what it means to confront
(01:28):
privilege, experience racial othering for the first time as
an adult, and the journey of finding her voice and going
viral as a content creator and activist.
It's a raw, revealing and important conversation that I
feel privileged to bring to you today.
Thanks so much and enjoy the episode.
So I want to, I want to start out because I think when, when
(01:48):
we spoke earlier, I really was struck by this notion of you're
coming to the Netherlands, bringing new awareness to your
own privilege and your own placein the world.
So can you speak, tell us that story if you would?
Yes, I think in India, privilegeplays a really big part in how
you grow up there. And I have a lot of privileges
(02:11):
in India. I have cost privilege, class
privilege. Also my skin tone.
There's so many things that are,you know, going for me there.
And I was always aware of that and I always tried to use my
privilege for, you know, bringing awareness and doing
something good. And I think moving to the
(02:32):
Netherlands suddenly shows you the real class divide, also in a
country where you move to. So I feel like you just hear
things or things happen to you or the way people treat you is
so different based on how much privilege you have, which I
think is so unfair. And when I moved to the
Netherlands, I saw that kind of immediately because suddenly you
(02:57):
are a person of color, where in India I was just a person.
So I saw a lot of things that I never had to deal with that I,
you know, when I landed in Netherlands, I suddenly was
faced with them. Not to say I didn't still have
tons of privilege here as well, but it's just something that,
you know, you have to kind of face in your like, I moved here
(03:20):
when I was 31. So it's something you just have
to like be aware of suddenly, which I found sort of
interesting. And that sort of made me want to
talk about it because I was sureother people were figuring this
out as well. So also then taking that
privilege and then using it to talk about it, because I could
talk about it and I had a voice.Were you shocked?
(03:43):
Was it completely unexpected? Would you say this, this new
awareness or these realizations?Were you?
Would you describe it as shock or would you describe it as
something? No, I don't think I was shocked.
I'm pretty aware of how, yeah, if you're not white, how you're
treated in the world. I've seen it first hand.
Also, if when I've been around white people in India, you can
(04:03):
see instantly how they're treated, you know better.
So I wasn't shocked. I think it was just like, it was
a feeling that I hadn't experienced before, like the the
first time I faced racism in thein Amsterdam, it was just a
bodily feeling that I've never felt before.
So it was just very different and something I wanted to
(04:27):
explore, like where, how does this feeling manifest and how,
what is making me feel? Because in India I am the
oppressor. So I also wanted to learn about
it this, this feeling from different points of views and
ways. So yeah, it was more just
interesting. Yeah, that's really, it's really
(04:49):
beautiful the way you say it, that you you went from feeling
or being the oppressor in one case to being something the
oppressed in another or the lesser.
So you would describe it in whenyou lived in India, growing up
there, that you saw people beingmore privileged, but you never
felt like you were oppressed. I think India, the only thing
(05:11):
where I feel oppressed is because I'm a woman and India is
a very patriarchal society. So definitely, that's why I also
talk about feminism a lot in my content because that's the one
way I really felt that, you know, it's unfair in my sort of
experience, but I was also really aware of how much
(05:31):
privilege I have based on cost and class and all of these other
things. So that's the difference, I
think. But definitely that also brings
across here, here also here. It's not an equal society if you
think of genders and the sexist.So here is just an added layer,
I think. And it's, yeah, it's very
interesting how different societies decide how much, you
(05:56):
know, privilege you get based onjust something, something that
you can't decide or choose for yourself.
So yeah. And would you mind I have my own
interpretation of this because Ialso came from a very
patriarchal place. But I would love to hear how you
experience that, where you're from, which can we tell people
from which part of India are you?
(06:17):
Did you? But I'm North Indian but I grew
up in South India. OK.
And what is that like if I know nothing because I'm I don't
explain what that means. Like what are the people like
where you're from or? Well, I, I grew up, I always
say, from a small town of 3 million people, which, yeah,
(06:38):
it's, it's funny, but this is true.
It's it's a smaller towns, it's a bit more chill, more relaxed,
but the inequality of the sexes is very inherent in the society.
So it's not really geographically doesn't matter
where you are. It's just how the culture is and
how you know you're treated differently just because you're
(06:59):
a woman. And I think the biggest thing is
the safety for women. So it's not safe to be outside
as a child if you're a girl, if it's not safe to walk, you know,
by yourself at night, even sometimes even the during the
day, there's a lot of cat calling.
There's a lot of sort of staring.
(07:20):
It depends on what you're wearing a lot.
Like if you are wearing something that is not
acceptable, you can get blamed for something that happens to
you. So it's a lot of victim blaming.
I have to say my family is amazing.
So I was not raised sort of inequal to like my brother.
So it was in my family, it was avery nice environment.
(07:43):
But you know, there are relatives and there are people
who want to always comment on things.
And also women are supposed to do certain things.
And if you deviate from that, you're sort of like a bad woman
or you can't be outspoken. You have to sort of just lay low
and do the things that society has deemed for you like.
(08:03):
And I think the biggest thing for me was marriage, because
marriage is sort of big part of Indian culture and it's
something you just have to do. And this is not just for women,
this is also for men. So I think marriage was the
biggest thing. That was sort of, I was, yeah.
I didn't feel like I wanted to do exactly what people were
(08:24):
telling me to do or like, I wasn't super for arranged
marriage. It works for a lot of people.
It just, it was not for me. But I felt like, yeah, as a
woman, you really have to navigate that because you have
to make a lot of sacrifices if you, you know, get married and,
yeah, do certain things that society just wants you to do.
(08:46):
And if you just want something different, you're you're not
allowed. So that's sort of, yeah, the
dynamic. That makes sense.
I want to ask. I want to back up, but then I
want to go more into this. But what in your where you grew
up or in India in general, either is fine.
What is that divide based on? In in where I'm from, it's like
(09:08):
based on religion. Religion kind of backs up this
servitude of women and all this stuff.
But is it the same? Is it just what would you say
it's based on what? What gives that notion that
women should be less than men ortreated differently?
I'm not a history expert, but I think this is what I have read
or sort of this is my information.
(09:29):
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is I think this is
comes from just the perfection of a patriarchal society.
And I know that a lot of it was colonial.
So the British brought a lot of their Christian values when they
colonized India. So like the dowry system or
(09:50):
women being property. And if you look before the
colonization from Britain, whichwas 302 hundred 300 years, women
were much freer. You know, women would roam
around like topless with just like a things.
If you see our ancient scriptures, you know, there's so
much sort of nudity. There is also like there's a lot
(10:13):
of sex, like freedom of sex, like sexual, you know, like
Kamasutra comes from India. So I know a lot of it comes from
colonization, but I'm, I don't know if it's, that's what all of
it is. But to me, it's like, see, it's
just how it has been perfected to become like a patriarchal
(10:34):
society. Wow, you've just taught me
something new. I also.
When I learned that I was shocked.
But but I, I definitely, I my knowledge of all so many things
just doesn't. And I have to keep reading
because yeah, when you are also the oppressor, you are not super
knowledgeable and a lot of things.
I've also started reading up a lot about anti anti caste
(10:56):
things. I've followed a lot of accounts.
I want to learn more about casteism because it is so well
and alive in India right now. And people sort of deflected by
saying, oh, it's used to be a thing of the past, which is just
so not true. So yeah.
Can you explain that just a little bit?
I think I know what it is, but would you mind just telling us
(11:16):
briefly an overview of what a caste system is?
So a caste system is where the people are divided into 4
categories and the lower categories the lower caste and
they include a certain sections.So Adivasi, Boja and Dalit and
they are just is not afforded the rights as the rest of the
(11:37):
three caste divisions would have.
They get jobs that are not, yeah, like considered dirty or
lower for people to do. Just so I know this is based on
lineage then. Yes.
Is it based on? Lineage.
So who? Your father?
No. No, no, you're not, but you're
helping me understand. So it's not based on like how
(11:59):
much money you have. It's based on who your ancestors
might have. Also is based on how much money
you have because historically upper caste Brahman like cast
have hoarded a lot of land and money.
So it does sort of have an effect on who then gets to have
money now based on lineage of course.
So. So it's all super interconnected
(12:21):
and yeah. Not it.
OK, I know you told me you're not the expert, but you're the
expert to me right now. So thank you for answering my
questions. OK, so you didn't know why you
were being treated differently as a woman when you went outside
of your house. You just, it's just part of your
culture. Like that's the water you were
swimming in. Yeah.
And I see because of the difference in my home and
outside. I just, I think I questioned it
(12:42):
more maybe because my home was different than other people and
I also saw my friends, they weretreated differently than from
their parents. So like it was just a bit like I
was questioning a lot. I was questioning a lot of
things like why does why do theyget to go out and I don't just
because I'm a woman and why do Inot get to wear this?
Like I was just questioning a lot, which also you're not
(13:04):
supposed to do. No questioning.
So is that just a thing in the culture or you're you just knew
inherently you weren't supposed to question I.
Think you're been when people tell you don't question
anything, you just. It's just out and open just like
a fact. Yeah, that makes total sense.
I'm wondering because it sounds a lot like high, high demand
(13:27):
religions where they say don't question.
And so when I see that in like amore, when I hear you saying
that in a more like a not religious context, it makes me
very curious. So I, I, I want to dive in, but
OK. So you were always questioning.
It sounds like you were, well, for whatever reason, you always
(13:48):
felt a little different or like you were always kind of
wondering and questioning when you weren't supposed to.
And so do you think that was what made you always think you
wanted to live abroad or tell usthat story about eventually,
eventually studying abroad? I think it stems from what I
said about like just wanting different things.
(14:08):
And it's either, yeah, you don'thave examples of that around
you, or you don't think you can have different things because
that's just not the norm. And this is before social media,
Internet. So your world view was very much
what was around you or movies orTV and not really other people
(14:28):
living in other countries. You didn't have a worldview
because you didn't have a way tosee anything because the
Internet was not a thing. So I think when I was teenager,
I just like, I don't know, I just wanted different things.
And I, I think I was influenced by a lot of American TV sitcoms.
I just wanted like, you know, like a free life.
(14:50):
I just, I feel like I didn't want to just do the thing where
you study, get married, have kids, you know, and a lot of
women don't work. And that's changing now.
But when I was growing up, like,a lot of women didn't work.
And there was a set role for people and I just wanted
different things. I just didn't know what.
But I knew I didn't want that. I knew what I didn't want.
(15:12):
So I think moving abroad was not, was me just wanting a bit
more freedom to choose what I wanted and it could have been
possible in India, but it's justsomething that I felt like would
be easier, I guess abroad. And I also wanted to travel.
I think I also loved wanted, I think I wanted to explore more
(15:36):
cultures because I saw this on, you know, TV or movies.
And I thought it was so interesting that there are
people who can be so different, but also they're humans and
yeah, just to meet different kinds of people, which again, if
I lived in a bigger city in India, I would not maybe think
like how I thought, but I lived in a smaller town where we
(15:56):
didn't have a lot to do or, you know, we have the same people
around us, like a small town sort of thing.
So I think if I didn't grow up there, I might be different,
like if I grew up in Mumbai or Delhi or something.
But yeah, that's what sort of like, I just didn't want that.
I wanted something else and I didn't know how else to get it I
guess. I highly know what you're
(16:19):
talking about. I don't know what I wanted, but
I knew what I didn't want that Icould have.
I, I can, I think me and a lot of people listening to this can
can relate. So that led you to studying in
London, is that right? Yes.
So I wanted to do something creative.
I know like for my studies I studied Fine Arts and then I
(16:42):
really wanted to do fashion and I really wanted to study abroad
because it just looked like so much fun.
And I think in like I went to London 2010 and around then
social media was like a little bit of a thing, Internet was a
thing. So I also saw a lot of people
doing it that you could not study abroad.
And I got into London College ofFashion, which was a big, like,
(17:04):
moment because I didn't think I would.
And then my parents let me go. And it was amazing.
I think it was my first and, like, what do you say?
View of the world outside of my little sort of world that I saw.
And I, to be honest, I loved it.I was 21.
(17:25):
It was amazing. So I think that's where the
insect bit me for like, you know, exploring different things
and. Yeah.
The insect bit me. I love that you got the you got
the bug. We always say you got like the
bug. No, I like the way you said it.
Actually, I'm going to start saying that that's amazing.
(17:47):
And so you studied in Europe andfelt felt like you wanted to
remain abroad. And so tell us about, I really
want to know because you were inLondon and that's was it more
international. Why do you think when you came
to the Netherlands, it was that you felt?
(18:09):
I love this phrase that you use because it I I can relate in a
different way, but you just suddenly became a person of
color overnight. I love that you said that, I'd
love that you're living that, but why do you think?
Can you tell us about that moment?
Because you you were obviously younger and all these things.
So a lot comes with age and experience and also social
(18:31):
movements going on. I.
Think the biggest was that I wasa student.
I think student life is so different than actually living
somewhere because you don't haveto deal with a lot of things.
And I think England and London just in general has a lot of
Indians. So you don't really, you're
like, you're like a part of the crowd, I feel like.
And again, it was I was young and maybe I did face racism back
(18:54):
then, but I just didn't know it was that.
I think I was just also a bit more aware of why people treat
you a certain way. I think I was very naive back
then. And yeah, I also, I only had a
visa for two years in London, soI knew I was gonna go back.
It's not like I could stay there.
So I I knew I had to study and leave again, so I didn't.
(19:18):
So you do experience a place when you're when it's temporary,
you may experience it differently.
That makes a lot of sense too. Yeah.
So when you came to the Netherlands, it felt like you
wanted to make it a little more permanent.
So that's one way. So can you describe like that
moment or if there was a moment where you're just like, oh, wow,
this is something completely different.
(19:40):
I I would love to hear that story if you have in.
The Netherlands you mean? Yeah, in the Netherlands, I
mean, that moment, it's again sopowerful to me that you say
overnight I became a person of color.
Like that's an amazing notion, so.
What? Really.
Yeah, I think it was the job search, sort of.
Experience because I had to immediately.
(20:02):
I even started looking before I moved.
And then when I moved I was still looking for jobs and I
knew a lot of Dutch people when I moved here.
And then they would tell me likeyou should probably put their
block letters that you have a visa to work here because just
because you have an Indian name,they will probably throw away a
resume like a multiple people told that to me.
(20:23):
It's not like one person, you know, and then just the fact
that you're Indian on a resume, they would just not pay
attention to it or, or, or the other side, which is like, oh,
you're brown. So you might actually get in on
diversity, Koda or something. Like you hear all of these
things I've never heard about before.
(20:44):
So I think that was when I was like, oh, so this actually
matters. And then for sure, the first
time I face like blatant racism in the pipe, which is like the
most like international area of Amsterdam.
And I really that that whole experience just changed my sort
(21:04):
of like, wow, you will actually discriminate against me just
because of who I look like, you know?
Tell us that. Do you mind telling us that
story about being in the pipe and that?
Well, I've, yeah, I've also madea TikTok about it, but it's
there was, I was in a pop up shop.
I was like working in a like a with a brand and we were doing
(21:24):
like a pop up shop. And this woman, this older Dutch
woman came in to try on clothes and there were three of us in
the store. None of us were Dutch.
So it was not because I was not Dutch.
The other two people were white French and Danish and I was
Indian. And she would just not talk to
me. She was just not talk to me.
(21:45):
I would ask her a question. She would just ignore me and
wait for those people to come out.
And like, I, I thought I did something because that's
immediately what you do. You, you go inward and see what
you did. And, and somehow you represent
1.3 billion Indians because if you do something, you're ruining
the names of Indians. But white people never have that
(22:06):
responsibility. If one white person does
something doesn't mean the entire, you know, culture gets a
black mark. But I thought I was doing
something wrong. So I started complimenting her
like that color looks really good on you cuz I know like
people love that compliment. But and then she just was like
not talking. And then she was smiling and I
(22:28):
smiled back and she's like, no, no, no, I'm not smiling at you.
I'm smiling at her. And it was not because I didn't
speak Dutch because the other two didn't.
It was not because I was not Dutch, because the other people
were not because I know that's like, you know, you get annoyed
that people don't speak Dutch inyour country.
I get that. But yeah, so that was just like,
and I felt it like visceral in my body.
(22:49):
Like I felt it. It wasn't something I felt she
was. She doesn't want to engage with
me because what I because there's nothing else.
And I still doubted myself, but I couldn't doubt the feeling I
was feeling. That was a very like, like my
hands were shaking. I was feeling shame.
It was so many different things.And then I told some people what
(23:13):
happened and they were like, Raji, that's racism.
Like they had to the white people had to tell me like that.
That woman was, you know, and, and also then some people told
me like this is common because in, in the Netherlands, it's a
bit under the radar. This was before I made content
and everything because now I have a lot of hate, racist
(23:35):
comments. But you know, you kind of see
the reality a little bit. But back then I just, I knew
this existed. But when it happens to you, you,
you do get like, wow, is this what it feels like?
Thank you so much for listening.As we honor Kedikati, may we
continue to listen, reflect, anduse our voices to challenge the
legacies of oppression worldwide, just like Rashi does
(23:58):
with her courage and clarity. You can hear her full episode by
following the link in the show notes.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
OK, that's it for today. I hope you've enjoyed our show.
For the latest insights on living internationally, join us
at houseofperegrine.com to find out how you can connect with our
community. Let's craft our life story with
(24:18):
intention, together.
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