Personal Finance Strategy for Life Abroad | Ep 75 - House of Peregrine

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine
podcast. Today I'm joined by someone who
embodies so much of what we talkabout here, freedom, flexibility
and the courage to build a life aligned with your values.
My guest is Sophie Duong, a fully qualified European
financial advisor who spent the last eight years living in
beautiful Barcelona. Originally from London, Sophie

(00:21):
and her wife decided to make theleap to Spain in search of a
different rhythm, and they've never looked back.
Professionally, Sophie is nothing short of impressive.
She manages over 40 million in investments for 120 clients
across Europe and beyond throughher platform, The Wealth
Advisor, with over 60,000 followers across all channels.
And through her advisory business with Severe Spain,

(00:42):
she's helped thousands of peoplegain confidence and clarity
around their worldwide finances.But what really makes Sophie
stand out isn't just the numbers.
It's her mission to empower people to create globally
flexible lifestyles, ones that support living, working, and
thriving wherever they choose tocall home.
Whether through her financial coaching, social content, or

(01:02):
educational courses, Sophie brings a clear, accessible, and
a refreshingly human approach tomoney.
In today's episode, we talk about how she helps people
design financial plans that align with their dreams, not
just their spreadsheets. We'll touch on international
investing, building security without sacrificing adventure,
and how becoming a parent is shaping her next chapter in
Barcelona. OK, here we go.

(01:24):
Welcome, Sophie. Thank you so much for joining me
today. I'm really excited to have you
on. Hey, Michael, thank you very
much for having me on as well and thank you for that beautiful
introduction. Of course, I want to start out
by asking you about your story. You have recently become an
international person yourself. Not recently, but you didn't

(01:44):
spend your life growing up abroad.
So tell me your story. Yeah.
So I'm originally from London. I grew up in London to a family
of, of immigrants. My my parents are from Vietnam.
They escaped the Vietnam War andsettled in the UK and I was born
in the UK and and therefore I'm British.

(02:06):
I grew up in London and about 8 years ago decided to make the
move over to Barcelona. My wife and I actually it was my
wife's decision. She always wanted to spend some
time in in Spain. She'd studied Spanish in
Salamanca and she said well do you want to come?

(02:27):
If not, I'm going anyway. And so I didn't really have a
choice, but it's been the best decision that I ever made.
And eight years on, you know, we, we had, we initially had the
idea of coming here for one year, which I'm sure a lot of
experts decide, OK, let's give it a go and then fall in love

(02:47):
with the city and the rest is history.
So so here I am in sunny Barcelona, working the the the
job of my dreams and and loving every minute.
So now you're tricking me because you did grow up as a
third culture kid in a way, because your parents are from a
different place. All right, all right, so you got
me. I didn't know that part.

(03:09):
Do you think that informed your willingness to move to another
country because of how hard or easy you saw your parents have
it? I think it's not really because
my parents story was a story of two parts, a story of struggle
in the beginning, obviously, andthen obviously moving countries.

(03:33):
It's difficult, especially as a refugee, right?
But their resilience and their growth and you know, they
managed to settle and and build businesses in London that made
me feel like anything was possible.
So I guess the fear wasn't thereas much As for someone who's,

(03:53):
you know, who hasn't gone through that and haven't haven't
had that influence. But I loved my little bubble in
London. You know, I never saw life
outside of London because that was all I knew.
But I guess in some ways, yeah. Seeing it, hearing the stories,
and knowing what my family had had gone through and how they've
gotten from one country to another and then settled and

(04:16):
created a life for themselves definitely helped me to feel
like it was possible. Yeah, well, and I think that
that's so super interesting. You, it was your wife's
decision, not your decision, which is, which is a little bit
my own story. So it it was my decision.
And then my partner was like, OK, cool.
He got on board and of course isthe biggest fan of what we've

(04:36):
done, just like you. But I think it's it's tough when
it's not your choice, which is also kind of the case, not the
same, but being a refugee is that kind of like you didn't
choose to leave, you were not being being forced.
Is that the right word you woulduse?
You uprooted, right? It wasn't your choice.
It wasn't my family's choice. It was something that, that,

(04:58):
that was beyond their control. And it was a difficult time, but
they they managed to to get through.
Yeah. Well, and I, I love and and I
want to move on from this, but Ilove this idea.
I'm very interested in this ideaof how generational migration
patterns persist. And so it wasn't your choice,
but in a very different way, butit's still the the pattern

(05:20):
continued. And so I, I love this idea of
legacy things happening again. I love and also it's terrifying,
right, that we may not have as much control over our future as
we. Think I think so.
And, and I think you know, that story and, and, and having
having known what my grandparents and my parents had
to go through, keeps me grounded, right?

(05:44):
Keeps, make ensures that I know that absolutely anything can
happen and not to be complacent about things that you know,
about risk, which is, as you allknow, you know, across
everything that I do, I'm, I'm arisk manager.
I manage risk across, you know, my clients portfolios across my
own life. Everything's a risk assessment.

(06:08):
So, so yeah, I think it's, it's,it's definitely interesting.
But at the same time, if I look at the rest of my family, I have
a very big family. Everyone has kind of values that
stability, values safety becauseof that as well.
I I guess I was the risk taker. Yes, you.

(06:31):
You married a risk taker. Yes, yeah, we're both.
We're both definitely risk takers for sure.
Yeah. Amazing.
All right, well, thank you for for indulging me for a second.
That's a beautiful part of your story.
I'm glad we got to talk about it.
But you're a pretty amazing. Well, you have 120 clients,
you're managing over 40 million in investments worldwide.

(06:51):
Tell me that story. So when I, as I said to you
before, the move to Barcelona wasn't actually my choice,
right? My life back in London, I used
to manage health clubs. My background was in business
management. I managed clubs called fitness
first. I don't know if you've heard of

(07:11):
fitness first, but it, it was health and fitness was my life
and, and managing teams and, and, and, and growing business.
So when we decided to move to Barcelona, I was looking for
roles in a similar field, but even 8 years old, my Spanish
should be better, but my Spanishwas really poor at the time.

(07:34):
So you can imagine, you know, moving to a different country,
especially a Spanish speaking country and working in a
managerial role, it was just going to be very difficult to do
that. So I came across De Via Spain,
which is the, the company that Iwork with in terms of my
financial advisory business. And they had opportunities for,

(07:55):
for people like myself to join and, and retrain in a, in a
career that, that could, you know, that, that could have a, a
future in financial services. So I joined, I joined de via
Spain at entry level and I decided, right, I'm going to do
everything I can to get fully qualified as quickly as

(08:19):
possible. So I did all of my exams with
the Chartered Institute of Insurance for and it took me
about a year and I got fully qualified.
Wow. But I, yeah, I got fully
qualified, but I was really desperate to become fully
qualified as well because straight away I could sense that
there was a real gap in knowledge in understanding of

(08:43):
personal finance and, and investing.
And I guess one of my superpowers is taking something
really complicated and simplifying it and kind of
saying, right, this is somethingthat is accessible to you.
I know it doesn't sound it because it sounds very
complicated, but here's what it is in layman's terms.
So I felt like, you know, in order for me to to be as

(09:07):
effective as possible, I needed to have the qualifications to do
that. So obviously that's what really
propelled my, my, my journey, my, the starting journey in
financial advisory. So within that first year got
fully qualified. And then at the same time, I

(09:27):
started to build a, a book of clients through referrals,
through networking, through business development, which
which I learnt very much the skills from in my past role.
And so bridging the two together, business development
and, and qualifications helped me to, to, to start to build,

(09:53):
you know, a portfolio of clientsthat I could work with in, in
advisory. So that so once you, I guess I
just kept it simple, right? So you start with one client
that turns to five, that turns to 10.
And then before I know it, 120 clients onwards, here I am.
Yeah, amazing. Well, and you're in a very, at
least I find a very specific niche, which is I think there

(10:16):
needs to be more people doing this, especially with the way
we're more globally mobile and more, more and more.
So did that just come naturally because that's how you were
working yourself because you were from London, but living in
Barcelona for an I'm assuming you didn't come in like I'm
going to stay eight years like you.
You came for a year, you said, and it's, you know, you're

(10:36):
putting down roots there, but they're not.
So this understanding and now I know from also your parents, you
have a passion maybe for giving what you needed at the time.
Yeah, absolutely. I know how hard it is to move
from one country to another, essentially starting from
scratch, right? Going from working in a pretty

(10:59):
senior management level in London in the UK to starting
from zero. And I know the challenges that
come with that and I wanted to really help people to navigate
that as well. Annoyingly, I'm, I'm a type A
person, so I can't help but help.

(11:20):
So, you know, so if I know something, I'm going to share
that knowledge to make it easierfor someone else who, you know
who, who might find it harder to, to settle because of
bureaucracy or you know, they don't know how certain things
work. Sometimes shortcuts can actually

(11:40):
help someone to to settle and feel a bit more in control.
Yeah. And is it shortcuts or is it
just sharing knowledge and expertise?
You have an expertise, so don't sell yourself.
You're not just helping, but yeah, but it is, it seems I can
identify because that's a littlebit why House of Peregrine
exists, because I'm like, movingto a new country is already hard

(12:03):
enough. We don't need to reinvent the
wheel every single time someone does it.
So you're basically getting themto be able to be in some ways
equal to the people around them financially.
Yeah, absolutely. I think when you come to a new
country, the last thing you're, well, not the last thing, but
you're, you're just thinking about survival.

(12:24):
At first you're thinking about how am I going to stay in this
country? Then your personal finances are
something you start saying, OK, maybe I need to start to build a
life here financially. But a lot of the time your
personal finances are left as asa side note, something you kind

(12:46):
of think, well, maybe I'll get to it one day.
Or what I've experienced is likeyou, you weighed in and then
there's all these rules and things you're doing wrong, or
maybe you're out of compliance. So then you go back out.
You're like. Exactly, Exactly.
You're working. Yeah, you you're working across
different jurisdictions, different rules, different tax
rules, different currencies. I myself coming from London, the

(13:10):
UK has a very different mindset when it comes to money,
finances, investing to Spain. Spain is a completely different
world, right so. I always say money is cultural,
but I don't really know what that means, so tell me if you're
up for a philosophical debate about money.
Absolutely. I feel like what I didn't

(13:32):
realize at least is 2 things. Money is cultural.
Second thing is that money is actually what runs a lot of
migration. Like where the money lives,
where the money lives and where you live.
They want to be the same a lot of times and it wants to be
claimed. So they people want to claim
where the money is going for various important and sometimes

(13:53):
unimportant reasons. And so how do you coach your
clients through that? Because there's advantages and
disadvantages. But with that perspective, it's
a lot easier to understand why things are the way they are, I
think. Do I have that right or is that?
Yeah. So obviously you earn where you
earn money and where you spend money is important.

(14:14):
Where you hold money is also important because ultimately
those factors contribute to those jurisdictions where you
know that where they are. So just because you have moved
from one country to another doesn't mean that your money
isn't as international as you are.

(14:35):
And sometimes some people kind of think the easiest thing to do
is to leave things where they are.
But that's not always beneficialbecause again, the rules in the
US, the rules in the UK are verydifferent.
And where your money is has to follow the rules of where the

(14:56):
money is held, where you are, where you are a resident, you
have to follow the rules of the tax rules of where you live.
So location definitely matters in terms of personal location
and where your money is, is, is held as well.
I work in the cross-border financial world, right, the

(15:16):
International Space and there are I look at, I look at money
in, in, in two different ways vehicle.
So where the money is, is there a way to protect clients
portfolios from tax? It went possible legally of
course. And then what's inside the
vehicle and and again, those locations matter as much as you

(15:41):
as much as where you are based not just now but also in the
future. So where where you start to
actually access your money is also important.
So definitely location matters for sure.
Yeah. Well, and I think that that's a
perspective because there's no actual system that that's taking
care. So if you live in one country
your whole life, you kind of join the system, you contribute

(16:04):
towards the system. The taxes are kind of maybe
they're inconvenient, but they're fair at least whatever.
But what what? I had an interview with the
social sociologist that deals inmigration.
Her take was most people do wantto be in compliance, but it's
actually almost impossible. Sometimes you're out of
compliance in one country and out of compliance in another
without even while trying to follow the rules.

(16:26):
So it's less her take was, and Iwant to hear what you think is
it's less about not paying taxesand more about paying a fair
amount of taxes because if you're in multiple
jurisdictions, it's just not sometimes fair.
Yeah. You know, to give you, to give
you an example as an American, you're an American.
If you invest into assets outside of the US like an ETF or

(16:52):
you know, an index fund that is based in Europe, then the US
will want to tax that as what wecall a passive foreign
investment company, a PFIC, which I'd, I'd say 90% of US
Americans outside of America don't know that.
And so you're, you, you move to,you move to the Netherlands or

(17:12):
you move to Spain and you start earning in euros and your bank
says to you, hey, you now have, you know, 10, twenty, €30,000.
That's not doing anything. Why don't you invest into our,
our mutual fund? That mutual fund is considered a
PFIC and the US will tax it close to 40%.
So that and then at the same time, whatever interest you earn

(17:35):
in Europe, in the eurozone is tax the capital gains.
So you you're penalised just formaking a start trying to grow
your money. So it's certainly difficult to
know all of the rules, but that's where I come in, right?
We sit down, we have a conversation.
I holistically understand what your goals are, where you're

(17:58):
based, your background and background also matters in terms
of passports, you know, what passport do you hold?
For example, in the, you know, for UK, British nationals, we
are one of very few countries that suffer from inheritance tax
even if you have moved away, right?

(18:20):
So there are certain rules that domicile rules that have to be
accounted for when you die to decide whether you're still Auk
domiciled individual or not. And if if you are still deemed
Auk domiciled person, 40% inheritance tax on your
worldwide assets. So things like that.

(18:42):
It's worth speaking to an expertabout.
It's worth having a conversationso that you are not at risk.
And again, yeah, my job is risk assessment, right?
Yeah, amazing. So and that this brings up a
really good thing. So a lot of people look at
digital natives as like these young people in their 20s that
have no, but that's just not thereality.
And digital natives, expats, international people, people who

(19:04):
are immigrating, they all face similar challenges, especially
as you acquire wealth or just live your life and, you know,
acquire assets. So where do you come into that
process because it feels like tome, at least in my experience,
there's at least what I have right now is a financial tax

(19:26):
slash advisor in two countries because no one specializes
across borders or they're too scared to advise on both
countries. So are you the when would
someone come to you in the planning phase?
And what is a financial advisor as opposed to an accountant?
Yeah. So an accountant deals
predominantly with tax filing taxes and usually it's more

(19:50):
administrative actually. So you, you know, you have your
tax report to do, they will support you in filing that tax
return. A financial advisor and what I
do is we, we start with an introductory meet meeting where
I will understand all of the facts and essentially it's it's
an opportunity for me to get your.

(20:14):
It's an opportunity for me to get an idea of firstly, what
your objectives are. Financial planning isn't just
about here and now, it's actually more holistic.
It's about what your priorities are now, but also what your
priorities are in the next 10 years and then beyond future
retirement planning. So you want, you want them to
bring their entire, every country, every passport, every,

(20:38):
everything they have to you? Yeah.
Exactly. It's, it's, as I said, it's a
holistic conversation. We go, we talk about your goals,
we talk about your income, your expenses, we talk about your
insurances, we talk about tax planning to a certain extent.
I'm not a tax advisor, but I, I understand the rules of tax in

(21:01):
different jurisdictions very, very well.
And I also have a network of taxadvisors depending on where you
know, which countries we're involving.
I'll always lean on specific taxadvice if, if that's needed.
We then look at, you know, again, what income requirements
are needed now and therefore howmuch someone can invest for

(21:23):
their future. We then look at future goals and
income requirements in the future.
And, and most importantly, it's understanding.
I'd say, I'd say that retirementplanning is a, is a very big
part of what I do as an expert. People don't tend to know where
they want to retire. I sometimes find that people

(21:45):
tend to expats tend to get sort of the five year itch.
So after five years, they're starting to think of the next
country maybe because it's not as scary once you do it once,
right. So, so we look at sort of, as I
said, a holistic plan, but it's understanding firstly what that
outline of that plan is. Then my recommendations are

(22:06):
always built around those, thoseplans which are flexible, right?
I think something that I come across, something that I come
across quite often is that people feel like they have to
have everything set out in stone.
It's concrete, whereas you and Iknow priorities change all the
time. And so having a having some idea

(22:30):
of what your plan is, but room for course correction.
So knowing, OK, do I need to, isthis asset in the right place
and optimized for that plan for that goal?
And do your clients ever come toyou and say, hey, look, Sophie,
I thought we live in this country for longer.
Turns out one of our kids is notdoing well here in school, or we

(22:53):
have an ailing parent or any number of things.
Plans have changed. Can you advise us, maybe we have
some flexibility, we can move this year or next year or we can
we can stay registered here longer.
Do you help them through those unexpected transitions to make
sure? So a good example is like the
pandemic was a really big. And so in my life, the

(23:15):
Netherlands changed their visa policy.
The pandemic happened and my husband sold the company all in
the same three months. And we had no one to talk to
about like should we be deregistering?
Should we be doing this? Should we be doing this because
we had we thought we are on an 8year visa and they changed it
within three months before our visa was up to 5.

(23:36):
And so all the stuff. So what I wanted was someone to
call and be like, should we be moving right now to only be in
one jurisdiction or, you know, so a lot of fear happened and a
lot of mistakes happened just because we didn't have someone
on our who knew. So we were talking to both of
the both of the sides of the ocean and they both were like,
listen, all of what's going on right now is unprecedented.

(23:59):
I guess your best, you know, So these were all unplanned things.
Like you can't plan for these things.
But also like you said, we're kind of fickle.
We're just like, yeah, we don't like, like peregrines in general
are just like, yeah, it's not working anymore.
So is that a moment that people can lean on you?
When? Yeah, so.
Then you help them. Yeah, 100%.
And you know, if you're considering a move, if, if, if

(24:21):
even it's, if it's a very general idea that feels very far
away, but you just want some clarity around what that would
look like, what the implicationswould be if you moved there.
What would the implication of you moving there be on your
financial assets? Yeah, then that's certainly
something that I, I will help myclients with and and you know,

(24:43):
have a conversation with to see.Again, it's all about
optimizing, right? Yeah, yeah.
Most of the time people build assets that are optimized for
their current situation where they're resident now in the UK.
In the US you have Roth Iras, you have 4 O1 KS.
In the UK we have pension plans and we have something called an

(25:04):
ISA where it's a tax free vehicle.
Those investment vehicles are great if you are a resident in
that country. As soon as you decide, OK, I'm
going to be moving somewhere else.
Well, it might make sense for you to actually sell all of your
investments within your your your ISA because it's completely

(25:24):
tax free before you move to a country where where that will
that asset would be taxed. Yeah.
Right. So for sure you know, having a
conversation before you move to a different country is is in
your best interest. It's.
Healthy. You can't just up and leave.

(25:44):
Hilariously, that's exactly whatI did.
And then everyone's like, wait, you can't just do that.
And we're like, what do you mean?
I mean, we were not so young, but we were definitely naive.
And I think we're not the only ones.
I like to think, but I like to think my mistakes can be turned
into other people's easier time.Yeah.
And I would say if if we had a conversation when that was

(26:04):
happening, the first thing I would want to understand is if
you strip away money, you take money out of the equation.
What is important to you? Yeah.
And if then, you know, you say, well, I want somewhere where it
this sun 300 days of the year, you know, there's there, there

(26:25):
are, there is a good schooling system, then I can say, OK,
well, these are various options.And as an expat, there are, you
know, different countries where like for example, in Spain, you
have something called the Beckham law here, which was
named after David Beckham, by the way, where expats can move
to Spain and benefit from a reduced rate of tax for five

(26:48):
years. These are, these are sort of
little insights that can help you to make a decision on that
next move. If you are indeed globally
flexible and you, you have the, the option to choose one of
those places, right? And that's where we kind of
start to layer in priorities. My job isn't to make the

(27:13):
decision for you, it's to give you all of the information so
that you can make an informed 1.Yeah, totally.
And so I want to just make sure I understand, but also our
audience understands. So if you have a global
financial team that includes you, what does that look like?
I, from what I gather, you can tell me if this is right.
You have you who's kind of helping guide the values across

(27:38):
the world. And then you would then also as
an individual, have a tax advisor in each country or a tax
person. Yeah, exactly.
So it there is international taxadvisors exist there, there are
people who can give you tax advice.

(27:58):
If you involve two or three jurisdictions and you have
assets in those places already. You know, if you have a pretty
complicated portfolio, you know,if you have a trust in one
country and then you have investment platforms in another,
and then you have property or real estate in another, then in
that situation, you would want to have an international tax

(28:22):
advisor who understands those 3 or 4 different, different
jurisdictions and how those assets will be treated now that
you're moving to jurisdiction #4or 5, right?
So, so as a financial advisor, my job is to gather all of the
information, but also understandyour objectives.

(28:45):
As a financial advisor, we are way more about, you know, what's
important to you, what your priorities are, what your goals
are and where you want to be in the future.
Then at that point, we need to know where everything is and who
to start to pull in in terms of expert advice.
That can just add a layer of extra information to help you

(29:10):
again to make right decisions and and to protect you from
making bad ones. So many bad choices.
I cannot tell you, Sophie. So many bad choices, but they so
they do advise. So you're almost like a first
call if someone wanted, wanted to move abroad and then you can
help them find the team that suits their, their thing.
That's really helpful because itfeels like we did it backwards

(29:33):
and most people I know did it backwards.
And so that's really helpful. And so if someone's thinking of
moving abroad, they can call you.
Can they country, can they go, OK, we're thinking of these
three countries. How does that work with my
passport country? Is that something to help people
through? 100% think of think of me as
triage right so. You're triage.

(29:58):
You're the planner. But my job is to diagnose what
the problems are first as far asI can, right?
Then I can make recommendations on solutions, on medicine if you
like. So, you know, people come to me
with all sorts of different problems and as you can imagine,

(30:20):
no one client has the exact samepath.
Everyone has different objectives, everyone has
different assets in different countries.
And so my job is to take all of that information on board and
lay it out in a way that makes sense in terms of prioritising
which problems you have first and then letting you know what

(30:41):
they are. Because a lot of the time you
don't know what they are, right?So it's diagnosing the problems
first, yeah, and then recommending solutions that will
help you to fix those problems but also meet your objectives in
the future. Yeah, perfect.
Well, and I like how you say when there's problems because
it's not simple what we're doing.
And it's actually not like you said, it's not like you're in

(31:04):
one system, you're in multiple moving parts.
And like in my case, the countryjust decided to change my visa.
It had nothing to do with me. It was like, yeah, I couldn't
foresee it. And so those things, they are
going to come up. Is that something I can say
safely? Or at least that's what I tell
people. Listen, you're not a standard
case ever again. Welcome to the club.

(31:26):
So now you need specialists in your life that understand what
you're going to, because if you just go to a firm in either
country, they're just going to be like, everything's
impossible, everything's hard, you know, everything is an
exception. I don't know what to do.
So is it a change being an international financial advisor?
That is basically what you're doing is recognizing there's

(31:48):
going to be problems, there's going to be inconsistencies
here. Exactly what what we don't know
is what changes may or may not come.
We know that, but we know that they it's a possibility.
Everything I do will recommend it.
All of the advice I give is based on current situation and
current rules and current tax, you know, legislation, whereas

(32:14):
we know that governments change every three or four years.
And so you cannot close your mind to think that something is
going to be a way, that something's going to be that way
forever. And that's why it's important to
stress test your portfolio, stress test your plans and your

(32:34):
goals to see if they still meet the requirements of that country
or they meet the legislation in that country.
Yeah, And I always just say maybe you didn't need an advisor
if you lived in your same country, but now it's almost
like you need someone on your team like that.
At the very least, you need to at least once sit down with a

(32:55):
plan. Need is relative.
But like, again, like you're saying, usually people leave it
to last and maybe it should be first.
And that's what I'm trying to get people to see.
Yeah. And, you know, sometimes I'll
sit down with the client and we'll go through, you know, what
the current situation is. And I'll start to say, look, do
you know that you should be filling out this form or that

(33:16):
and different, you know, things.And they're like, oh God, no.
But the, the great thing about some jurisdictions is that if
you then, you know, if, if in hindsight, you then go and, and
file that form that you were supposed to do 4 years ago, they
tend to say, OK, you didn't know, right?
But in some cases that isn't thecase.

(33:38):
And so you have to pay a penalty.
But yeah, my job isn't to make things more difficult for you.
It's just it's to highlight whatyou know, what the issues you
currently have are, and then let's fix them.
And then let's now, you know, move toward the goal rather than
make mistakes on the way. Yeah, absolutely.

(33:59):
I want to ask about entrepreneurs is, is that, and I
guess this moves more towards like what your type of client
is. But what I've found, because my
husband and I are both entrepreneurs is we have so many
layers. So we have like, we're from the
US, we live in the Netherlands, which is another kind of
annoying tax jurisdiction. We both have companies and they

(34:21):
are in this like where our passports are there, we have
residents here, you know, all this stuff.
And so being an entrepreneur sometimes adds a layer that
scares financial advisors, whichunderstandable, but is that a
kind of client you help? Is entrepreneurs A?
100% entrepreneurs are wonderfulto work with actually, because

(34:43):
they all have already have a growth mindset.
And I'd say, you know, why do I do a lot of my educational
content is to help people to develop that mindset, to know
that it's possible to grow your wealth, especially in countries
like Spain where people tend to rely on state benefits, right?

(35:03):
It's not, it's not necessarily normal if you like to build your
own asset of, of your own portfolio of assets because the
state pension here is the full state pension here is like
€45,000 a year, right? So as opposed to the UK where
it's 12,000 lbs big difference. But we're just going back to

(35:26):
what you were saying about moneybeing cultural.
That's one example of it. But at the same time,
entrepreneurs fall into that cultural sort of money mindset
situation because not only do you want to grow your money and
grow your business, but sometimes it might make more
sense for you to keep the money within your company structure

(35:50):
and grow it within there before you start to draw an income.
So that is something that that Ihelp with and and help to
understand income needs. And is there a way for you to be
tax efficient with the company whilst growing your money and
investing it as well? Yeah, awesome.
That makes sense. Yeah, because a lot of

(36:11):
entrepreneurs aren't doing that.Not not only because they don't
want to, it's too complicated, but they just don't have time.
Yeah, and it's access, right? As a financial advisor, my job
is to open doors and say, hey, did you know that this is
something you can do? Yeah, nice.
Well, I'm planning for the future.
Like you said, often I'm speaking for myself here.

(36:33):
But when you're so focused on growing a company and enjoying
your life, you're not thinking about the future enough.
And sometimes I find that, and again, this could be me
projecting, but a lot of us, we are living, trying to live more
in the moment. And maybe there's just so much
cognitive overhead of being an international person that 20
years seems like a really long way away or retirement.

(36:55):
It seems like really far away. And this is most people, but it,
I think it's exaggerated. And people who are living
internationally, they're like, you know, it's almost like you
lose hope too. Like, oh, there's so much going
on between countries. Like that's maybe I just have
given up on on investing or retirement.
Yeah. And it's as an entrepreneur,

(37:16):
you, you're spinning so many plates already.
Your personal finances is just one, one other plate for you to
spin that, as I said to you before, and this isn't just
entrepreneurs, actually, this isa lot of people, they tend to
leave that plate to one side because they think, well, that's
something I can deal with later next week, next year.

(37:37):
And then before you know it, 10 years have passed and you're
still, you know, without a plan.Time is everyone's best friend.
So the sooner you can start to make plans and talk about your
money because at the end of the day, what is it for?
What is business for if it's notyour exit plan?

(37:58):
Yes, OK, you want to generate anincome now.
But for the most part, people, entrepreneurs want to build
their business to a certain point and then have an exit
plan. And that's where I think some
entrepreneurs can feel, feel a little bit stuck and slightly,
you know, you know, it's that's their baby, right.

(38:20):
So my job is to kind of say, well, OK, how you do a fantastic
job growing your business, but at one some point you're going
to want to start to draw an Inca.
What's the best way to do that? Yeah.
This is like therapy. I'm sitting here, you're giving
me therapy right now. I'm like, yeah, I do feel that.
That's not the first, that's notthe first time that I've been

(38:43):
told that my sessions come across as like therapy sessions.
That's normally. That's not normal.
You might. You're an exceptional person if
you're talking about people's finances.
And it feels like a really nice therapy session.
Yeah, it's. Do you know what it is?
I think money is something that people really feel anxious about

(39:04):
talking about and a lot of the time people don't realise how
emotional money is and how it pulls on different areas of your
life. And even though it's a focal
point, your money, your personalfinances is literally, you know,
the the the main driver of your future income and even some of

(39:26):
the decisions you make now, it'sstill that part that is
neglected. Yep.
Because you're focusing on all of the other things you know
you're. Focusing on survival, yeah.
Exactly. And so when I, when people sit
down with me, it's kind of like,OK, this is my one hour of
focusing on that really important thing that I know I

(39:47):
should have been looking at and that ties into all of these
other, other areas of my life. A lot of people come to you
after they've been somewhere 10 years, don't they?
Yes, yes, exactly. You know, and, and again, it's,
it's not my job to kind of say, oh, you should have started
earlier, which of course everyone knows that starting

(40:10):
earlier is great. But I do, I say sometimes my job
is to turn up the pain dial a little bit and to and to
highlight, well, what is the cost of inaction?
What will happen if you leave this another year or leave this
another 10 years? It's going to be a lot harder,
right? So.

(40:30):
Beautiful well and that's that'sa good trainer, right?
Like any good consultant trainerteacher knows when to turn up
the pain and when knows when to back off.
But money is that, and, and I'veasked this to a lot of people,
but I think that shame is a big part of it can be a big part of,
of not investing sooner. But the way my partner and I

(40:54):
always look at it, as we were investing in something
different, now it's time to settle down and invest in
something else. So our, our priorities were not
to be focused on that right then.
And so now it's time to, or whatever, like we try and go
back and tell the story in a waythat's more beautiful so that we
can then move forward with less guilt and shame and all this

(41:15):
stuff. Because investing can happen in
many ways and, and like you said, emotional ways.
But if you're looking to have a secure future, there's a,
there's a very not easy, but like there's an obvious way if
you want to grow your money and,and be have a retirement and
have an exit plan, like you said, that you need to focus on

(41:37):
at some point. Yeah, I think money moves where
you tell it to move. So priorities are different for
different people. And This is why I always say to
you, well, I say to clients as well, it's not my job to tell
you what your priorities are. It's your job to tell me what

(41:58):
they are. And I can help you to decide
which ones to to focus on and how best to do that, right.
So. But is it fair to say not to
interrupt you, but is it fair tosay you're just like, but I want
to help you grow it. Oh my, my ultimate job is to is
to help you to grow it. That's why we always, you know,
at the beginning, every session that I have with a client always

(42:21):
starts with goal setting. It always starts with well, what
is your financial independence number and, and you and
everything is then centred around that.
But then we start, we kind of golong term and then we move to
the short term. Yeah, backwards.
So although, you know, and, and a lot of the time the reason why

(42:43):
I highlight that financial independence number is because
people don't think about it until it's too late most of the
time, right? They're thinking about, OK, I
really want to buy a house because that's what everyone
does. That's I've been told I need to
have a house. So that's my first thing or I've
just started this business. Especially for entrepreneurs,
you know, that's your baby. That's all.

(43:03):
My money's going back there. So again, my job is to go well,
what's the risk of you do of youfocusing everything on those one
or two goals rather than maybe going, OK.
That also is that long term goalis also really big priority for
you because if you if you don't hit that number, two things are

(43:25):
going to happen. You have to work for longer or
you have to reduce your quality of life.
Which one of those do you want to do?
Yeah. And would you say, would you say
that your goal, one of your messages is like, you can do
both, this can be your baby and you can be taking care of your
future that that is. So that is a paradigm that is so

(43:46):
hard to get to without your expertise or without someone on
your team going. No, no, no, no.
You can do both. I promise you can do both.
I think that's really beautiful,actually.
Yeah, because we're also in a world where attention is, is,
is, you know, everyone's trying to grab your attention and every

(44:06):
one of the things that you are thinking about as a priority is
trying to grab your attention when it comes to money, right.
I need to get my kid this thing for school or I want to buy this
because it's a holiday that I really want to go on.
It's like the now is the presentunless you unless you take,

(44:27):
unless you take a step outside of the box and you go, OK,
that's all the stuff that I wantnow.
That's the lifestyle that I havenow and I want to maintain that.
But at the same time, future me needs to have XY and Z as well.
How can I look after future me as at the same time as looking
looking after present me? Yeah.

(44:50):
And, and I want to ask you because I feel like that's a
perspective that many have when they live in their home country
and that it's kind of helps withthe infrastructure, right?
Like, yeah, you could ignore it,but it's a little harder.
Do you? So I think one of your beliefs
is you can be an internationallyflexible person and take care of
yourself in the future. 100% I'mliving proof of that and that's

(45:12):
why I feel like I can spread that message as well, not just
for myself but all of my clientsare international people who
have made similar moves and are living a wonderful life now or
whilst looking after their future self as well.
Plans can change. Yeah, plans.

(45:33):
Plans can always change. But what you don't want it and
again, this is the risk assessment side of me.
Again, what you don't want to dois have less choices in the
future because you focus too much on them now.
Yep, our our slogan at House of Peregrine is it's now.
OK, we've got to change that to.It's now and.

(45:55):
And I feel it's my responsibility to then help
people plan for the future, stayin the present.
No, but I think maybe this is just my story again, But I feel
like the story of immigration and expat and even migration is
1 of sacrifice in a lot of ways.Or you feel guilty because
you're living and so it, it often gets to this place of

(46:18):
sacrifice. No, I can't have both.
Oh, I gave up this for this right now in other countries,
especially in the USI hear this a lot.
Well, I'm giving up. I'm getting out of a place that
doesn't work. So I'm willing to give up
anything, right. And, and it's like that doesn't
have to be the story. You can you don't have to have
this mentality. And I think it's generational.

(46:38):
I really do that you have to sacrifice or die or and it comes
to in our money stories, I think, and this is one way it
comes to in our money stories. It's like I can't have both.
I can't have live in a place I love, escape whatever it is I'm
escaping or go towards a life onthe beach.
Whatever it is that you think isyour ideal life you're going
towards. It almost seems selfish.

(46:59):
Is that? Yeah, I think so.
I think there's definitely a battle that people can have in
their minds about, you know, what should I be doing versus
what do I want to do? Yeah.
But I think the main message is that is time, right?
You only have a finite amount oftime and therefore sometimes you

(47:21):
need to be a little bit selfish.And you say, OK, what do I want
from my life? Yeah.
Now and in the future. And take it and you can have it
and you can get it. And it's possibly.
I love this message. I love it.
And this has literally now been more about therapy than finances
because. Therapy and finances.

(47:43):
No, but I mean, I think what's clear is that you know your
stuff, right? You're managing so much assets
that you know your stuff. And so then it gets down to this
philosophy of money, how you understand what some people
might be going through. Because I know if you talk about
this with another financial advisor, they're going to be
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, just tell me.
But also I think that what I find really important is that

(48:07):
you are not afraid of going. It's not like you specialize in
US, Spain, like that's you're, you're willing to look at
everything and then find the right person because there's a
lot of people who just specialize in one connection or
two or just Europe. Yeah, I think, you know, as I
said, I work with Devere Spain, who who are part of Devere Group

(48:30):
and we're one of the largest independent financial advisories
globally. You know, there are 50 offices
worldwide and therefore I can lean on support when I need to.
I can, it's access, it's access,it's access to technical
knowledge, but also local knowledge as well.
And I think as you said, my USP is, I have clients all around

(48:54):
Europe already, right? And so I know I, I've touched on
the rules in France, the rules in Ireland, the rules in Spain,
the rules in the Netherlands. And what you, what you start to
do is you start to build an armoury of rules of, of just
things that you need to know forthose different countries.
And I have to stay on top of those things as well, right?

(49:17):
So as you said, rules can changeany time.
As a financial advisor, especially in the, in the sort
of International Space, it's my job to know when those changes
are happening and to, and to kind of foresee some of those
changes to help my clients to, to know, you know, how can they
protect themselves from them. So yeah, it's great.
And so most of your clients are living in Europe.

(49:42):
They are from all over. They're from all over.
Exactly. Yeah.
Cool. And then my last question for
you is really more about, I wantpeople to know when obviously
before they move is a great timeto talk to you, but if they've
lived abroad for 20 years, if isthere a time someone shouldn't

(50:06):
reach out? Is there a time someone
shouldn't reach out is when theyhave already achieved financial
independence and there's nothing, nothing else that they
need to, you know, they're absolutely everything in their
financial plan is perfect, you know.
I was looking for when they are being carted off to prison.

(50:26):
Because they haven't paid taxes.That too.
That too. I think that's definitely a
given. No, but I mean there are real
consequences to being out of compliance and that's not a fear
tactic. But it is you are paying for
that security. Like having you on your 13 is
also a Peace of Mind it's a partof.

(50:49):
Yeah, because actually, yeah, you know, as an as an
individual, it is your responsibility to be compliant.
And you can have all of the teamin the, you can have all, you
know, you can have the best accountant, the best advisor or
whatever. But ultimately it falls, the
responsibility falls on you to make the right decision and to

(51:12):
be compliant. And so to ensure that you have
people on your team who are looking out for you and making
sure that they are adding to, you know, they're making sure
that you are being compliant definitely helps.
So there isn't really ever a time where it doesn't make sense
to get advice, especially especially if you're about to

(51:34):
move country or, or even if you've moved country and you've
been there 10 years, but you've,and this happens, but you've
kind of you've kind of buried everything under the sand
because you think, oh, that's something I'll deal with later.
And and then time just goes by, it's been 10 years and you still
haven't done this thing. So there's never a bad time.

(51:57):
I help people in the accumulation phase of people who
are really starting to build wealth all the way up to people
who are in the protection phase.So who need more sort of
understanding how inheritance taxes and succession tax and how
to protect from that work? OK.
Just giving me another question.OK, good for explain those

(52:17):
phases. I know it seems really, really
basic, but I think when you're an international person, you
don't know you're going through the phases maybe So what when
you're in backpacking across Europe or if you're a like an
expat at a startup in the Netherlands or whatever, you're
in the building phase. And how long do those phases

(52:38):
last? In general, of course, lifespans
are different. Yeah, they lost.
And again, objectives are reallydifferent as well, right?
You might have someone who wantsto become, who wants to achieve
the FIRE, you know, movement, which is financial independence,
retire early. You might have someone who wants
to retire at 40. Therefore their accumulation

(52:59):
phase is all the way up to that point.
The protection phase is up untilthe point where you have
achieved your financial independence number and you have
a portfolio of assets that are paying you enough passive income
so that you don't need to rely on a job or a salary or an
employer to fund your lifestyle.Yeah, right.
So it's basically like when you're young, you're kind of in

(53:21):
the accumulation phase. Is there a middle phase or is it
just accumulation and? There is a middle phase.
The middle phase is I guess where the 2 meet is where you
start to build assets and have family, for example, where there
is certain question marks around, OK, is this asset going

(53:42):
to be protected if I die and I have two children who I want to
make sure that those assets are distributed to.
Does that make sense? So there is a crossover period.
It's not. That's why I'm saying it's not
really about age as much. It's more about, you know,
accumulation, Yeah, milestones accumulation phase.

(54:04):
You are just building. You're, you're, you have your
goal, you're earning good money.Or even, you know, it doesn't
really. It's not necessarily about what
you earn. Actually, it's more about how
you spend it. As I said, money moves where you
tell it to move. So, you know, as long as you are
growing and you're adding to your net wealth rather than

(54:25):
spending it all, you're accumulating, you're in the
accumulation phase. Protection phase is more OK.
You have assets, you need to protect them or you have
dependents or you have people who you care for.
And you then need to start to protect your, your wealth and
you need to start to think of different ways that you can
optimize your, your existing portfolio for those things.

(54:48):
Nice, cool. And, and that's happening as an
international person. And, and what we don't talk
enough about is this inheritancepart.
Nobody wants to think about it. But more than one person I have
come across has had a spouse diewhile they're abroad and they
have, they haven't been preparedproperly because it might be OK

(55:09):
to do that, not have a will or aplan when you've grown up in a
country and stayed there. It still might be costly in a
lot of ways, but it's adds a whole other layer of complexity
to not have a plan if you are between countries, if you're in
two different jurisdictions. And so is that something, I
mean, it's no, no one wants to think about it is.
But is that one thing that I think international people

(55:31):
actually don't have the luxury of not thinking about it?
Everyone should be thinking about it for sure there is AI
don't know how old this saying is, but there is a saying in the
financial advisory world that there are only two things that
are certain in life and that's death and taxes right?
So to have both of them happen at the same time is is a pretty

(55:54):
solid blow, right? So you know it's going to
unfortunately, it's morbid to talk about, but at some.
Point We're all going to die. At some point you're going to
die and if you you know, if it'simportant, you know, estate
planning isn't something that's important to every everyone,

(56:14):
don't get me wrong. But for those of you who have
values of estate planning and you know, passing on assets to
your children or loved ones or charity in some cases as well,
it's better that you put the plan in place and and make the
arrangements so that your assetsaren't going to the tax ban

(56:35):
instead or tax woman instead, right?
So money. Money moves where you want it
to, even after you die. Exactly, exactly.
And if you don't tell it where to go, then unfortunately, it'll
go. It will go elsewhere.
I just want to be clear, Sophie,even if you live near the beach
in Barcelona, you still die. Yes.

(56:56):
And I, I would actually say the risk may be higher because there
are, there's jellyfish in, in Barcelona beach.
No, but I think that a lot of times we're out running things
we don't want. If we're moving, there's,
there's often an element of that.
We're out running what we don't want to think about, including,
I'm just saying, perhaps death. Yeah.

(57:18):
But also it's, you know, where your assets live as well matters
when it comes to inheritance andsuccession as well, right.
As I said, there are very few passport holders in terms of
countries where the inheritance is based on a person's estate.
But in other countries like Spain and and Italy and France,

(57:39):
the succession tax is based on the beneficiary, where the
beneficiary or where the assets are.
So there are different rules fordifferent countries based on
where the person who, where the deceased person lived, where the
beneficiary is and where the assets are all.
Right. You've already you're hired like

(58:01):
I can't, I can't. My brain, my brain is now
breaking like I thought I had. I thought I had a pretty good
idea. Now, Now I even if I didn't need
an additional tax advisor. And now I do.
No, this has been such a helpfulconversation.
Sophie, is there anything else you want to say before we we
wrap up? No, I guess it's been a, it's

(58:22):
been an amazing conversation, super easy to, you know, as you
can see, I get a little bit passionate about just helping
people navigate the complexitiesof financial planning in on an
international level. So yeah, it's been a real
pleasure. Me too, and I can say I love
that. I can see where it comes from
that your, your, your backgroundand everything.

(58:45):
And that to me makes it so you're doing your life's work,
which I find really beautiful tosee.
So thank you for showing it to us.
Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being so
passionate about this, because obviously in the international
community, we need people like you.
And thanks so much for coming ontoday.
I really appreciate it. Where can people find you?
Since we obviously now need to know where our money lives and

(59:06):
where our descendants live. And we all, we all need you now.
How do people find you? OK, so my main website
isthewealthadvisor.com and on there you will find links to the
advisory. If you need one to One Financial
advice or financial coaching. There's a a money course on
there as well. It's called one day money

(59:26):
mastery, just for people who I guess want to take control over
their finances on on a self based, you know, basis.
I also create loads of content, educational content for free on
TikTok. That's at the wealth advisor on
LinkedIn as well and on Instagram.
So you'll find me across multi channeled.

(59:49):
Here on all the platforms. All right, we'll also link it
below. And yeah, thank you so much for
coming on again. And thank you to everyone for
joining us today on the House ofPeregrine podcast.
I hope you will like and subscribe and even leave a
comment because we read them all.
Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.
OK, that's it for today. I hope you've enjoyed our show.

(01:00:10):
For the latest insights on living internationally, join us
at houseofperegrine.com to find out how you can connect with our
community. Let's craft a life story with
intention. Together.

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Personal Finance Strategy for Life Abroad | Ep 75

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Personal Finance Strategy for Life Abroad | Ep 75