The Power of Psychedelic Assisted Couples Work: The Paradox of Personal Growth within Relationships

Today Mickelle revisits one of House of Peregrine’s most-listened conversations - with Jeanine Souren and Hans van Wechem of The Experiential Training Institute in Amsterdam. Together, they explore how psychedelic assisted couples work  can open new layers of growth, intimacy, and autonomy in romantic partnerships, especially for those navigating identity shifts, major life transitions, or the subtle unraveling that can come with international relocation.

Jeanine and Hans share their unique perspective on why this approach often appeals to men who may be less drawn to traditional therapy, and how ancient rites of passage are echoed in the transformative nature of psychedelic work. They speak candidly about emotional safety, therapeutic touch, and what happens when one partner begins to grow while the other stays still —- a dynamic made even more complex by life abroad. Whether you're new to this modality or simply curious, this episode offers a spacious, grounded entry point into what’s possible when we heal together.

Key Moments:

• Why psychedelic therapy resonates with men in a different way than talk therapy
  
  
• What happens when one partner grows,  and the other doesn’t
  
  
• How psychedelics invite couples into deeper emotional honesty
  
  
• The link between relocation, relational change, and inner transformation
  
  

To learn more about Jeanine and Hans, visit The Experiential Training Institute.
Full episode and show notes: houseofperegrine.com/podcast/ep-014

Send us a text, we'd love to hear from you and hear what you're enjoying and what you'd like to hear about.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, I'm Mikkel Weber, founder and auteur of House of
Peregrine. Expat, immigrant, pioneer.
None of these were a fit, but Peregrine describes what we are
all about perfectly. Those that craft their life
story with intention. I've spent the last six years in
awe of the life changing connections and stories I have

(00:23):
experienced while living abroad and believe it is time for this
adventure to be recognized, celebrated and elevated to the
life stage that it is. Through these interviews, I hope
to connect those living internationally more deeply to
both the place they are living and with themselves and those
around them. We cover everything from
international finances and meaning making to global

(00:46):
parenting and relationships to make your time abroad more
intentional, edifying and full of beauty.
Find us at houseofperegrine.com where you can find more ways to
connect with the ethos of Peregrine.
I hope you enjoy today's guest. Let's get started.
Hello and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast.

(01:07):
I'm Mikhail Weber and today I ambringing you one of the most
played moments and one of our most popular episodes about
relationship growth in psychedelics with two of the
world's most cutting edge therapists in the space, Janine
Sauerin and Hans van Wekum. They use psychedelics with care
and attention to open the door to depth and possibility that

(01:28):
might have not otherwise been possible or only imagined with
couples. Janine and Hans are guides for
couples navigating the terrain of change, disruption, identity
crisis, or even if they just want deepening.
In episode 14, we spoke about why psychedelic therapy
resonates with men, particularlywho may feel hesitant about
traditional modalities, how ancient rites of passage echo

(01:51):
through modern journeys, and what happens in a relationship
when one person is growing and the other wants to stand still.
They also speak honestly about the questions that sometimes
arise around safety, intimacy, autonomy, and how to move
through these unknowns with presence and integrity for both
the couple and each individual. If you are new to this

(02:13):
conversation, I invite you to listen with openness, not
urgency. Be aware that this type of
therapy is not for everyone, butif you're curious, this is a
fantastic conversation to start a journey of curiosity.
All right, let's begin. So I find because it's such a
bold breakthrough approach that a lot of men are involved or

(02:41):
interested. And whereas the, you know, the
emotional volume of I'm generalizing a little bit, but
of, of women is much more developed.
Often, not always is going to therapy is much more common.
But this approach appeals to menbecause it's really very no

(03:02):
nonsense. And it's talking with yourself
during a journey. And yes, before and after you,
you'll engage with a therapist. But it's, it's it, it has a
different feel to it because it's quite daring.
It's almost like, you know, going paragliding or, or doing
a, an adventurous sport. What?

(03:22):
What would you say, Hans? Yeah.
And I think you can also look upon it as a initiation ritual.
Sometimes, like in ancient cultures, to really become a
man, you had to do a sort of test challenge.
And sometimes this feels like the ultimate initiation ritual

(03:47):
to to dive in, to jump off a Cliff with the rope tied to your
ankles. That's more the masculine way.
It's daring as well. And sometimes and rationalized
daring. Like, I'm curious, I've read all

(04:08):
the stuff about it. It's scientifically approved.
Let's see what this does with mybrain.
And the initiation is more of the what the adolescents and the
youth do is they sort of dive inhead first, not knowing what
they're doing. And this word stuff can go

(04:29):
wrong, but that's more of a masculine egoic thing.
Proving to yourself, proving to your friends that you I do this
and and women approach it in my point more from another place,
not that scientifically oriented, but more from a

(04:54):
unfulfilled need and maybe a deeper longing as well.
Yeah, how could I say this more?Yeah, more from this point of
communication, like we have to communicate also with with the

(05:16):
well, with the bigger mystery. But well sounds a bit fake and
it is. But, well, that's good.
And I'm sure you guys are familiar with the work of of
this author who talked about theworld's religions being based on
psychedelic ceremonies that werelargely carried out by women.

(05:38):
And so for me, I think that there's a echo there in what
you're saying of this lost, maybe lost knowing that's in our
bodies, but maybe not taught to us for for both men and women,
but that were historically largely carried out by women,
which I've, I've read all of this after my journey and it

(06:00):
resonated so much with my own experience.
OK, more or less deep questions,guys, we can do this.
I have my list of questions, butI love going deep with you guys
because I think you guys are doing this work in a way that
other people aren't. When I research it myself, when
I hear other podcasts, you guys are in the depths of the psyche.

(06:21):
But also, and I hate to use words, spiritual, that you're
accepting of the spiritual in a way that maybe isn't always
common. So what are common concerns you
see from couples when they come into you?
I'm, I'm sure there's safety, which you guys have addressed
already because you are very safe and you kind of have done

(06:41):
it a lot of times. And so you But what are the
maybe emotional or less common things you've heard from
couples? Well, from couples.
Well, but that's not just for couples.
People ask about touch, therapeutic touch, or they also
ask about sexual feelings arising.

(07:04):
How common is it to feel arousedduring a session when you
basically don't feel like you'rein control?
Those questions come up a lot. And then we always are able to
reassure them that if we just tap on someone's shoulder then
and and whisper in the ear, thatalways does the trick.

(07:24):
What else? Hunt.
Yeah, you could. Well, more from a generalistic
point of view and that like to knees and that not only goes for
couples, but you understand whenyou go in because you want to
change something, changing the relationship that you have with

(07:45):
yourself will change everything around you.
So that's what I always say whenpeople come to me for individual
psychotherapy, then I talk aboutthe side effects of
psychotherapy as well. And I think the most important
side effect of individual psychotherapy is partner

(08:09):
relationship issues. Because you if you step in
feeling really dependent on yourpartner and through the process
you become more autonomous, thenwhat you need from your partner
changes. And if your partner doesn't
change alongside you will get a conflict.

(08:33):
And proving autonomy can lead tomore issues, more conflicts,
more stress. And that can bring you in a
strange paradoxical situation that you thought that therapy
was helpful, but instead it madeyou more miserable because you
are have all of a sudden all these issues that weren't there

(08:57):
before. So you thought.
So becoming more aware makes youwonder about what it is that you
need from another person. I want to add something to that,
because I think this really speaks to you, Mikhail.
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of women who

(09:19):
go to therapy because they are more maybe feel more welcome or
more comfortable there and then they are just lost with their
partner and their partners lost with them.
Yeah, so, so, so we feel if if one person does a psychedelic
journey and the partner doesn't that there's a lot of room for,

(09:41):
I don't know, I guess development because so much
happened in the in the in or canhappen in in a psychedelic
journey. It's almost like if one person
starts to grow like I mentioned that before, the other one
almost has to join at some pointbecause otherwise the past will

(10:02):
will grow widely accord. Yep.
And I think in couples that are living abroad together, that
already happens with just the move and then they start
growing, maybe learning a new language, maybe their kids are
learning a new language, maybe one's taking a new job and
another one's a stay at home parent suddenly.
And that's never happened before.

(10:23):
It's just a massive explosion ofyour dynamics already, and
there's not a language around it, which I think is super
interesting to consider, but also to maybe consider
psychedelics as a way of acknowledging and maybe moving
through that with more grace. Thank you so much for listening

(10:45):
and for staying open. Whether this episode sparked
resonance, resistance, or even something in between, I hope it
offered a glimpse into how intentional psychedelic work can
be as part of a larger system with skilled therapists.
Especially for couples navigating life abroad, this can
be a layer transition full of tender terrain.
And so I feel it's my responsibility to bring out any

(11:07):
kind of modality that I find helpful, and I certainly have
found a lot of use in this one. At House of Peregrine, we
believe in honoring the full spectrum of what it means to be
in relationship with others, with yourself, with the place
you call home, and sometimes even with the mystery.
We know that creating a life youlove rarely follows a straight
line. That's why we're creating space
for those explorations, one honest conversation at a time.

(11:31):
If you feel called to share yourreflections or even leave a
comment, you're always welcome to reach out.
We read every message and every comment.
If you would like to learn more about Janine and Hans's work,
visit the show notes for links and resources.
I'll look forward to hearing what you think, and I look
forward to next time. OK, that's it for today.
I hope you've enjoyed our show. For the latest insights on

(11:53):
living internationally, join us at houseofperegrine.com to find
out how you can connect with ourcommunity.
Let's craft our life story with intention, together.