As the daughter of immigrants, I’ve often turned to my own parents’ story for inspiration, a belief that we’re all capable of achieving anything we truly believe in, and a reminder that taking risks is often the key to making meaningful leaps in life.
Today, I’m joined by Neri Karra Sillaman, who shares her extraordinary journey, from fleeing her home country as a refugee to building a global, multi-million dollar luxury brand, and teaching entrepreneurship at Oxford.
She’s a 3-time TEDx speaker and the author of Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs, which has reached #1 in multiple Amazon categories, including Entrepreneurship, Business Diversity & Equality, and New Releases.
Her work has been featured in Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, and she’s calling in from Paris for today’s interview.
Buy Pioneers on Bookshop.org (Supports Indie Bookstores)
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Website: https://www.annemcginty.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Anne McGinty (00:07):
Welcome to how I Built my Small Business.
I'm Anne McGinty, your host.
As the daughter of immigrants,I've often turned to my own
parents' story for inspiration abelief that we're all capable
of achieving anything we trulybelieve in.
That we're all capable ofachieving anything we truly
believe in, and a reminder thattaking risks is often the key to
(00:29):
making meaningful leaps in life.
Today, I'm joined by Neri KaraSillaman, who shares her
extraordinary journey fromfleeing her home country as a
refugee to building a globalluxury brand and teaching
entrepreneurship at Oxford.
She's a three-time TEDx speakerand the author of Pioneers
(00:54):
Eight Principles of BusinessLongevity from Immigrant
Entrepreneurs, which has reachednumber one in multiple Amazon
categories, includingentrepreneurship, business
diversity and equality, and newreleases.
Her work has been featured inHarvard Business Review and Fast
(01:15):
Company, and she's calling infrom Paris for today's interview
.
You can find links to connectwith Neri in the episode's
description.
Neri, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for inviting me, it'sreally a pleasure.
So, looking back at yourchildhood, what moments had the
(01:38):
biggest impact on who you aretoday?
Neri Karra Sillaman (01:44):
Oh, there's many.
When I was 11 years old and wehad to immigrate, we had to
become refugees in 1989,alongside 360,000 Bulgarians of
Turkish ethnicity, and havingthat very traumatic experience
and sudden experience, becausethat day I had gone to the
(02:05):
library, I had picked up books,and I come home and my mom tells
me you need to go back andreturn them, we have to leave.
And you are living this life asyou know.
You have a plan.
I really wanted to go to theEnglish high school.
They call it Angliska Gymnaziain Bulgarian.
I had just gotten in.
(02:27):
So and one day your life changesand it's very sudden.
So that's one experience thathad a big impact in my life
because from that moment on,when I stood at the border and
looking at all the confusionaround me and together with my
parents and my nine-year-oldbrother, all we had were two
(02:47):
suitcases to our name.
We didn't have a place to go.
In fact, we were set up to livein a refugee camp which was set
up by Red Cross at the borderTurkish border and we stayed
there for several months.
And in that moment I made adecision.
There were two realizations.
One is my childhood just ended.
(03:07):
I'm no longer 11 years old.
And the second one is I need toget a good education and that's
a very defining moment.
And it's a very definingdecision because education is
what I do, Even when I thinkabout how we run our family
business, what I do, even when Ithink about how we run our
(03:28):
family business, even the reasonwhy I wrote the book, even why
I have to.
I want to go back to teaching,even though it's part-time,
education is the entire purposeof my whole life and that's a
very defining moment.
Of course, you have othermoments growing up, where I come
(03:48):
from an ethnic minority family,and one of the early feelings
I'm not even going to call it amemory, early feelings is shame,
because I knew we weredifferent, we were treated
differently.
The communist government at thetime decided to carry out an
ethnic assimilation processwhere the names of Turkish
(04:10):
Bulgarians were changed fromTurkish to Bulgarian names and
for months, even years, with myparents, I would run, they would
run, we would hide, and we werenot allowed to speak Turkish,
we were not allowed to practiceour customs, our culture, our
religion.
So you are, immediately, youhave this feeling when you go to
(04:32):
school that you are not likethe others and, by the way, when
we went to school, we livedvery close together with the
other ethnic minorities, whichwere the Roma, gypsies and the
Turkish ethnic Bulgarians.
So you already are in some waysegregated and when we went to
(04:52):
school, it was together with theRoma, gypsies and Turkish
Bulgarians.
Like us, I did get a very goodeducation, but you immediately
know from a very early age thatthe feeling I got as a child
there is something wrong with meand that was an early memory
(05:15):
that I feel ashamed.
I should be ashamed of who I am.
My name is not right, myreligion is not right, my
culture is not right.
My religion is not right, myculture is not right.
So this is a very definingunfortunately a very defining
moment.
But I like to look at the giftsin every difficult situation
(05:36):
and for me, one of them is thatI think it makes me a lot more
compassionate to the pain ofother people and what they go
through.
Anne McGinty (05:48):
Yeah, you're seeing the positive in the
situation, which sounds like avery heartbreaking one, and I
think that that's also a superstrength of immigrants is being
able to, as you say in your book, reframe these situations so
that you see the positive thatcomes from it.
Yes, Can you take us back towhen you then went from the
(06:10):
refugee camp to Istanbul andwhat that experience was like?
Neri Karra Sillaman (06:15):
So my father tracked down a relative
who had immigrated in 1978 toIstanbul.
He tracked her down, managed toget a phone number for her, but
after we were months in therefugee camp he called her from
a phone booth.
I was with him and said Türkan,Yenge, Aunt Türkan, we are at
(06:38):
the border with my family.
And she said come on over.
She opened her home to fiveother families.
Like us, she doesn't have a bighome.
Also, none of us worked.
We shared the same food.
She shared her home with us,her food and her children, who
today work in our factory.
(06:59):
The daughter is our accountantand the son is our manager.
Her son bought me my first bluejeans because growing up in
Bulgaria, in communist Bulgaria,you don't have brands, you
don't have these fancy things,and my dream was to own blue
jeans.
And he took me to the streetmarket and he basically bought
(07:21):
me a pair of jeans, just rightthen and there, and I really
cherish them very much.
Or Nutella we didn't haveNutella.
They bought us our firstNutella.
And then, when we get to livewith them, of course my parents
start to immediately look forjobs.
My mom started to work at atextile factory.
(07:43):
My father worked in roadconstruction, Any jobs that they
could find they would take, andthe Turkish government, because
there were 360,000 Bulgariansof Turkish ethnicity who came to
the border.
They established somethingcalled assimilation.
I don't know how to translate,but it's an educational
(08:05):
assimilation program that youhave to take.
Before you are allowed to startthe school they have to check
your level, and we didn'tactually speak Turkish like the
local Turks do.
We had a dialect that couldn'treally be understood.
It wasn't how local Turks spoke.
So you go to school to learnTurkish, to really assimilate to
(08:29):
the Turkish educational system,and after that in September you
can start school.
We immigrated in June and inSeptember I was finally able to
start school a little late.
I actually remember that aswell.
I started about a month lateand my parents eventually moved
(08:51):
out of my aunt's home, but to avery rundown one of the ghetto
areas of Turkey.
We didn't have money to buybread.
Some evenings we didn't haveheating.
My mom burned our shoes, andshoes we weren't wearing anymore
.
So just so we can have someheating in the house, it was
(09:12):
very challenging times,certainly when people come to
Ellis Island.
There is a famous writing thatsays I was told roads will be
paved I'm paraphrasing here willbe paved with marble.
Not only were they not pavedwith marble, I was expected to
pave them, that's right.
And I had a very similarexperience.
(09:34):
So as a child, my grandmotherwould tell us, because we were
not treated well by thecommunist government, our names
being changed, not given thesame rights as the local
Bulgarians.
So, my grandmother will tell us, when we go to Turkey, our
(09:56):
lives will be amazing.
All of this will be over.
Streets in Turkey are paved withmarble.
There are faucets, goldenfaucets, wherever you walk in
the streets.
She will describe heaven to me.
And when we immigrated therewas no such thing.
I was shocked.
(10:17):
I was shocked by the colors,overwhelmed by the smells, by
the dirt, because the area wemoved into wasn't the fancy
parts of Istanbul.
Istanbul is a beautiful city,but there are also especially in
1989, there are parts of itthat are very run down.
So I remember the shock of it.
(10:38):
It was quite challenging timesand I went to school with 83
students in one classroomsitting in one desk, but three
or four students have to sit inone desk.
We couldn't afford to buynotebooks for each subject, for
each subject in my notebook.
I had to really focus andmemorize what the teachers were
saying, and I think that's alsolike if I'm reframing that
(11:02):
situation.
It gave me good memory gave megood memory.
Anne McGinty (11:28):
What I'm hearing is that you faced one adversity
over another, over another andit just kept on changing and you
were forced to adapt and beresilient to come through.
And I also was hearing that youhad a lot of gratitude for very
little.
You say, a pair of jeansbrought you so much joy, or a
jar of Nutella.
And it reminds me of my ownparents' journey.
(11:50):
My dad was one of six, and thenhis parents, and they would
sometimes share one drumstick ofchicken for dinner at night.
But you you know your storywith the burning of the shoes
just to have some heat.
It causes an emotional feelingfor me just hearing you tell
this part of your story.
(12:10):
How did your family then gofrom first refugee camp to then
Istanbul, to then moving intotheir own location, to then
starting a fashion business?
Neri Karra Sillaman (12:24):
Very good question.
So in Bulgaria, when we werevacationing one summer, my
father met a Turkish businessman.
Actually it happened bycomplete coincidence and I talk
about luck.
In my book, the very lastchapter and this is one of those
lucky moments in life that youcan't plan, it just happens.
(12:45):
He heard us talking Turkish.
I was actually singing a song.
He heard me.
He came over and said are youTurks?
And to see a Turkish person inBulgaria at the time is unheard
of.
It just didn't happen.
This is communism.
Foreign people don't comethrough and if they do, they
leave immediately.
But he was there when we werevacationing and he said to my
(13:10):
father this is my business card.
I make wallets and leatherproducts in Turkey.
If you happen to ever come toTurkey, you can come visit me.
But that's like someone sayingto you, like if you win the
lottery or if you get to heavenone day, you know it's like it's
just, you don't leave Bulgaria.
It's communism, it doesn'thappen.
(13:32):
So shortly after we immigrated,the Berlin Wall fell and that
meant communism fell.
But communism fell in Russia,in all the Soviet republics, and
many people there were notallowed to become entrepreneurs.
You are not allowed to own abusiness trade.
(13:53):
None of that.
The second the Berlin Wallfalls.
There is such mayhem in thosecountries.
First of all, everything wasstate controlled and no longer
is.
But people also are no longerable to buy food the way they
used to, because it's a big,major transition that's
(14:14):
happening Soviet republics toGeorgia, to Azerbaijan, to the
former Soviet republics,basically because we come from
communism ourselves.
So we spoke Russian andculturally he felt this is a lot
(14:35):
closer to me than being Turkish, which is ironic.
You know, we are in Turkey but,like I was telling you, our
language is a little different.
Our customs are more of aBulgarian communist, you know
it's different and culturally weare a lot closer to Russian,
former Soviet Republic,ukrainian type of culture.
(14:57):
So he goes to Russia and he seesopportunity there because he
noticed that people werecarrying their belongings in
plastic bags.
There were no leather wallets,no bags available, there were no
super, like nothing.
There were no stores available.
We are talking 1990s.
Wow, what?
(15:18):
Yes, of course this is how itwas.
Of course this is how it was.
(15:39):
And he says to himself if I sellleather wallets, leather bags,
it's going to sell because thereis nothing here.
But of course he doesn't livecard which, by the way, we had
two suitcases and that businesscard and my mom, in the rush of
when she was putting togetherthe suitcase, trying to get
everything in it was June shetook winter clothes.
(16:03):
So we all actually immigratedto Turkey with winter clothes in
the middle of June and one ofthe suitcases was unfortunately
filled with winter clothesbecause in the rush to leave she
didn't take the anyway.
But that business card camewith us and my father went to
him and said remember me, I'mhere not to ask to be an
(16:26):
employee in the company.
I'm not here to ask to be acraftsman.
I don't know how to makewallets, but I'm here with a
business idea.
If you trust me, like, let metry.
You have nothing to lose.
And he started with a handful ofwallets and it sold very
(16:49):
quickly.
And he sold them the initialones in the street market very
quickly.
And he came back and his ideawas to open a very small store
in the grand bazaar area ofistanbul, grand Bazaar area of
Istanbul, because that's whereall the Russian, former Soviet,
(17:09):
former communist people who wantto start a business back in
their home are also coming.
And it was the biggestsupporter of the Turkish economy
.
It's called the luggage trade.
In my PhD I talk about this.
It brought so much to theluggage trade.
In my PhD I talk about this.
It brought so much to theTurkish economy the number of
there were millions, millions ofRussian former Soviet Republic
(17:33):
people coming through the borderto the luggage trade area, to
the Grand Bazaar area.
What they will do is buy thesetextile, leather products, bring
them back to their country,sell it and come back, buy again
.
And they brought everythingback to their country in these
luggages.
(17:53):
That's why it's called luggagetrade.
Anne McGinty (17:56):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, I got so many chills inyour story just from imagining
your dad being in Russia andnoticing that people were
carrying their items in plasticbags.
I mean, first of all, he had toobserve that, recognize the
opportunity, but then also, asyou're saying, the luck of the
businessman.
However, your family did holdon to that business card.
Neri Karra Sillaman (18:19):
Exactly.
You know, in the book I talkabout luck.
Luck is not something justserendipitous that happens to
you.
What you said.
He has to recognize that.
You have to see it, you have torecognize when luck happens and
take action on it.
And maybe that luck is notgoing to be immediate, maybe
it's going to be in severalyears, as it happened in our
(18:41):
case.
But open your eyes and openyour horizon.
And I think one thing aboutimmigrants is they are what I
have observed in my researchthey are very open to
opportunities.
They know things will not behanded to them, they know they
have to make their own luck andbecause of that they are very
(19:03):
aware.
And another thing in my book Italk about cross-cultural
bridging.
Something my father did wasbecome a bridge between two
different cultures the Turkishculture, russian, former
communist culture, and almost abridge between communism and
democracy too.
Because he's able to createthis trade and at the time how
(19:27):
he makes money is basically hetakes commission of out of the
products that he sells andthat's that's basically how he
starts to.
When I say make money, we arenot making millions, not at all
initially, but at least we areable to move to a better area.
We are now able to rent abetter apartment, we have
(19:50):
heating, we can go to betterschools, and I was around the
age of 15 at the time when thiswas happening.
And this is when I come intothe business, because I looked
at what my father was sellingand I said this has no branding
on it.
We have to create branding, butat the time, in former Soviet
(20:14):
republics there is no such thingas Giorgio Armani, prada,
versace I mean, right now thereare sanctions and there isn't,
but at the time those brandsbecause it's so volatile to
enter these markets no Westernbrands were in these markets.
So we created a brand and we hadbasically advertisement around
(20:39):
it.
There was a slogan all forquality, quality for you.
I came up with it.
There were ads that wedeveloped with our distributors,
and I will take the Turkishmanufacturers to Italy, to the
trade fairs.
Basically, the idea was thereare these trade fairs in Italy
that happen every two years inBologna, where all the big
(21:02):
fashion brands buy their leather, metal accessories from, and
they also started to upgrade thequality.
But also I was able to seewhere the top manufacturers of
leather products are, where thetop manufacturers of leather
skins are where Chanel, lvmh,kering, prada, where they why
(21:26):
their skins from.
So it was really starting fromthe very beginning and I started
working with my mom and my dadand my brother was also in the
business.
Everyone is in the business.
I mean, that's the immigrantstory.
Everyone is helping outeveryone is helping out.
Anne McGinty (21:48):
I can imagine the joy that you must have all felt
and the gratitude for even justwhat some over here would
consider to be sort of likeminor upgrades in your life.
But you earned it and togetheras a family you created
something and then work togetherto make it grow, but then also
the building of therelationships with that
businessman and putting it alltogether.
(22:10):
I know in your book you sharethis concept that you learned
from your grandfather aboutfrying in your own oil, and I
was wondering if you can explainwhat that means and how it
impacted you and your family'sapproach to business.
Neri Karra Sillaman (22:27):
Hugely.
It still does to this day.
Frying in your own oil if thereare any Turkish listeners, they
will know it directlytranslates to frying your own
oil, which means to beself-sufficient.
Make the most with what youhave, and this applies not only
to business.
This can apply to anything youdo in life.
(22:50):
You have to stop lookingoutside of yourself but look
within and see what is uniqueabout you.
And you know and I teachstrategy.
So if you look at the resourcesand capabilities, when
businesses try to identify theirsustained strategic advantage,
they actually have to look atthe resources that they have.
(23:13):
And I think this very muchapplies to business strategy,
because you have to see what isunique about you.
What is one thing that nobodycan take from you?
One thing that nobody can takefrom you, what are the resources
that you have that are your ownand that they cannot be
replaced?
And, of course, this issomething when we were starting
(23:36):
the business.
We almost had no choice.
Because you are an immigrant,you have to look at everyone
worked in the family business.
But also that comes from thefact that we don't have capital
to go outside and hire.
We don't know how to raisemoney.
We are talking about 1990s asan immigrant-founded business.
(23:57):
Nobody is going to say to youyeah, sure, I believe in you.
Here is a million dollars.
That's not going to happen.
So we have built our businesscompletely with our own
resources.
We employed a lot of our familymembers in the business.
Of course, we pay them.
That's not what that means, butthat gives you trust.
(24:18):
That's number one thing, andeveryone is very much on the
same boat as you, workingtowards the same vision as you.
There is something that you arestriving for that you can
create a better life foryourself and for all the other
people in your life.
My uncles worked as truckdrivers.
(24:38):
My aunt worked at a factory,actually also as a tailor.
So all of this is not just foryourself, and everyone is
working to better their livesbecause we are all in this
together.
To this day, we never raisedany outside capital.
We don't have investors, andthis still continues in our
(25:00):
business.
I think there are also downsidesto it.
So you have to watch out.
I'm not advising you shouldnever borrow money.
You should never hire outside.
You know people who are outsideof your family.
Not at all.
That's not what I'm saying,because there comes a point in
the business where you have to,in order to expand and go bigger
(25:22):
, you have to bring in anoutside perspective.
So that's a mistake.
So you have to watch out, likewhen to make that decision, like
the inflection point, becausethat's not going to also
continue forever and ever.
But one principle that I thinkis very important and something
(25:43):
that I see with startups,because I work with startups at
Oxford.
They immediately say, oh, Ihave to raise money.
That's number one thing.
And I say not so fast, becausethis, in my opinion, kills the
creativity.
And if your business is notprofitable, if you are not
(26:04):
making, let's not even sayprofitable.
If your product is notprofitable, if you are not
making, let's not even sayprofitable.
If your product is not sellingor service is not selling, you
have to ask yourself why is that?
And if you go immediately toraise money, this can create a
blind spot for you.
You are not going to be able tosee what's happening in your
business.
(26:25):
So frying in your own oil hasthat benefit as well.
It's going to allow you to veryclearly see the challenge that
you are facing and why yourproduct is not maybe selling as
well as it should, and thechanges you need to make.
Anne McGinty (26:39):
And then you grow at a pace that is sustainable
for your business.
Neri Karra Sillaman (26:45):
Exactly.
This is so important.
Anne McGinty (26:47):
Yeah, the resourcefulness is something
that I've witnessed withimmigrants that I know or also
in other cultures like.
My husband is from New Zealandand I feel that Kiwis are
naturally resourceful.
The economy there is quitesmaller than it is in the United
States, and so they are forcedto be more creative with their
branding, to be better withcustomer service, to do more to
(27:12):
get that market share becausethere's just not as much flow of
money.
So now, with Nerikara, yourbrand, or your family's brand,
can you describe to us the levelof success that it has reached
today?
Neri Karra Sillaman (27:27):
Well, today we are in business for 25 years
and we made the decision toalso produce for other Italian
luxury brands as well.
We produce for Prada and Miu Miu, and this is something that we
take pride in, because ourcraftsmanship and manufacturing,
(27:48):
our ability is outstanding andthe brand is also.
Today, I have to say somethingthat is maybe going to be
surprising we have our factoryin Istanbul, but I myself am
based in France.
I got married, I came here fora job offer, which was to be an
associate professor at one ofthe business schools, and I
(28:11):
became a mother, which also ledme to make some decisions in my
life, which one of them was thatI want to pursue what is my
true passion, which is education, writing, teaching, consulting,
advising passion, which iseducation, writing, teaching,
consulting, advising and this iswhat I've been doing for the
last few years, and today thebusiness is run by my family, by
(28:32):
my parents.
So there is a separation thathappened, a very amicable
separation and a loving one, andI think that was the right
thing for me.
And the business knock on Woodis still very successful and we
employ 175 people in Turkey.
We have operations in Bulgariaas well as in Turkey.
Anne McGinty (28:55):
You must just feel a swell of pride that your
family has done what they'vedone over those 25 years, has
done what they've done overthose 25 years and especially
given your beginnings and howmuch difficulty you faced.
It's such a beautiful,heartwarming story that I know
(29:18):
many people resonate with.
I wanted to touch on astatistic that you mentioned in
your book.
To touch on a statistic thatyou mentioned in your book,
which is that immigrants aretwice as likely as native born
residents to be entrepreneurs,and some of that I think
listeners will have alreadyheard and what we've discussed,
(29:38):
but is there anything else thatyou'd like to touch on as to why
that may be?
Neri Karra Sillaman (29:45):
Very good point.
So in the business literaturethey will say immigrants are
more likely to becomeentrepreneurs, which is a fact,
and of course the businessliterature attributes necessity
entrepreneurship as one of thefactors for that to happen.
Because they immigrate, theyhave no choice but to become
(30:06):
entrepreneurs.
Their education is notrecognized.
They want to upwardly mobilize,they want a better life for
themselves and they will becomeentrepreneurs.
However, until pioneers, nobodyhas asked why are immigrants
more likely to start businesses?
(30:28):
That last, because that'sanother very important statistic
46% of Fortune 500 companiesare started by immigrants, and
this is a huge statistic.
We have Nordstrom.
We have some exceptionalcompanies Tesla Okay, one of
them, google.
We have Procter Gamble.
(30:50):
They are all started byimmigrants.
And Pfizer, moderna all startedby immigrants.
Today we have vaccine.
We were able to have a vaccinebecause of immigrants, the
COVID-19 vaccine.
We owe it to them.
Our computer is powered I startmy book with that because of a
(31:13):
chip inside it called Intel.
The founder, one of the earlyfounders, is an immigrant.
He's a refugee, andrew Grove,and nobody has really talked
about in the literature, andthis is what bothered me almost
like talking about immigrants asif they are powerless.
They have no choice but tostart a business.
(31:35):
But I wanted to change theconversation and talk about
immigrants from an empoweredplace, because that's, in my
opinion, very rarely talkedabout.
Place, because that's, in myopinion, very rarely talked
about.
We either think of them as somepeople to be pitied because they
have to be deported, or theydon't have the resources, or we
(31:56):
think of them as people who hadno choice but to become
entrepreneurs, and that's notalways the case.
So that's basically the reasonwhy I started to write Pioneers,
because when I looked at thosestatistics, I was myself, even
though during my PhD I've beenwriting about ethnic
(32:19):
entrepreneurship, necessityentrepreneurship.
These are concepts I'm veryfamiliar with.
Even myself, I had the blindspot where I didn't see
immigrant entrepreneurs fromthat perspective.
So for me that's something Iwant to emphasize They've
started exceptional companies.
(32:40):
They've revolutionizedindustries.
Industries and their businessesthat they create are more
likely, statistically, to lastlonger than those who are native
born.
Anne McGinty (32:54):
What do you think gives them that staying power?
Neri Karra Sillaman (32:58):
One of them is that they don't start their
business thinking I'm going toget in and get out.
I'm going to raise a lot ofmoney, make as much money as
possible and get out.
So that's where businesslongevity concept comes to play,
because in the book I also sayif you picked up this book
(33:19):
thinking you are going to makequick cash, it's not for you,
because business longevity andthe way I talk about business
longevity immigrantentrepreneurs think about legacy
, think about what can I give,not what can I take, and that's
a very major difference.
When they start theirbusinesses, there is the idea of
(33:42):
giving back, giving value, andthat's the staying power.
When they create businesses,they think about community, they
think about shared value, theythink about other people,
employees, and that's thebiggest difference.
And, of course, other points.
They reframe rejection and tothem, rejection and failure
(34:06):
doesn't mean the same thing aswould to others.
To them, failure is not failure.
Hearing the word no is whenit's the beginning of the
conversation.
It's the beginning of business,it's not the end.
By the way, this happens to usas well.
When we first made our veryfirst collection, I graduated
(34:27):
from University of Miami and Iwent to my father and I said,
instead of selling the leatherproducts of this other company,
why don't we create our ownbrand?
And we made our very firstcollection from the leather
offcuts that our Italiansuppliers, who also supply for
Chanel, lvmh, huge brands butthey would have a small defect
(34:52):
or it was an off-season leatherthat they were no longer going
to produce or use and they wouldeither give it for free or just
throw it away or sell it forvery little.
So the idea was we would takethat leather, create a
collection, and that collectionwas making mobile phone covers
(35:13):
for Nokia I am that ancientbecause there was Nokia at the
time, not iPhone that we havetoday and in those countries it
was like a status symbol tocarry your phone on your belt or
to really have a phone coverfor your phone, like that was a
(35:33):
big deal.
So we made these very beautifuljewel like mobile phone covers
and wallets and belts very smallcollection and went to this big
main distributor and you know,if he carries our products we
are going to be in, the businesswill start.
(35:55):
And he looked at it and I saidI never heard of the brand Neri
Cara.
This is a huge risk for me.
I don't really care aboutquality.
I'm not sure.
You guys are producers.
Anyway, you can create acollection today, but I don't
know if the rest will happen.
So no, and we didn't let thatstop us.
For us, it meant we have tofind a different way, we have to
(36:19):
look for different distributors, and I think that's something
that I've observed, and with allthe immigrant entrepreneurs I
interviewed and studied.
To them, no doesn't mean no.
It's the beginning ofconversation, it's the beginning
of negotiation, it's thebeginning of business.
Anne McGinty (36:39):
These stories are so inspirational.
I mean you're saying that aclosed door is not a closed door
, it's just a door or there'sanother one.
Exactly, you just kept ontrying.
But also you found a way, likeyour grandfather said, to fry in
your own oil, to have resourcesthat you didn't have the
(37:02):
capital for by getting theoffcuts of the leather that was
going to be thrown away anyway.
I find so much inspiration fromwhat you're saying and also, as
we were discussing before, wejumped on the call.
In a time when immigrants arejust being so misunderstood and
they're being viewed withsuspicion, I feel that there is
(37:24):
actually so much contributionand inspiration and compassion
and leadership that has comefrom entrepreneur immigrants and
I was wondering what you wishanybody listening in who doesn't
maybe know immigrants ordoesn't fully understand how
much they sometimes can gothrough.
(37:45):
What do you wish theyunderstood more?
Neri Karra Sillaman (37:50):
Well, they can only look around themselves
and see the contributionimmigrants are making, and not
just by washing dishes at therestaurant.
You know, often I think this issomething that really I want to
use gets to me when theconversation happens.
But look at immigrants they arehelping in the restaurants and
(38:12):
they are our nannies and theywash the streets or wash the
dishes at the restaurant, and,yes, that's true, but that's not
what immigrants should bereduced to, and they are highly
resourceful.
It's the ultimate act ofreinvention to be able to leave
your country with nothing, tohave to restart your life from
(38:36):
absolute scratch, not knowing asoul in that country, and that
takes exceptional amount ofresourcefulness, resilience,
hard work, integrity, and Ithink right now there is.
Unfortunately, immigrants arebeing used.
The topic of immigration isbeing used to divide us, and
(38:57):
it's done very much on purposeand deliberately, and that's
unfortunate.
That's really very muchunfortunate, but I would invite
anyone to simply open their eyesand see it for what it is.
It's being used as a tool inorder to divide us, and I know
(39:19):
someone asked me recently howwould you describe America in
one word?
It was in an interview and myimmediate answer was hope and
she said you really sound likean entrepreneur.
And I said no, I sound like animmigrant.
Because that's what immigrantsdo they see the positives in
anything.
There is a poem I use in my bookwe are everything Hermana
(39:43):
because we come from nothing,everything Hermana because we
come from nothing.
And there is this reframing ofa situation or reframing of a
concept, where I see it as hopebecause I know, I know anyone
and every American and I willsay American because I'm talking
(40:03):
to you at the moment, but Ithink this is happening
worldwide People are better andhave goodness in their heart and
I know we are better togetherand we are stronger united, and
I know people and anyone isgoing to wake up and see that.
I don't know if it's going tohappen in a day or tomorrow, but
(40:26):
it is going to happen because Ihave hope.
Anne McGinty (40:30):
I hope as well yes , I hope as well that the
goodness of people most peoplein the world are good.
Neri Karra Sillaman (40:35):
They are, they are yeah, and when I talk
to people one-on-one, that'swhat I see, yeah.
Anne McGinty (40:42):
So we both know immigrant founders.
They develop grit just by goingthrough these hard transitions
that they go through.
But not everyone who'slistening in is going to
understand that depth ofadaptability and the kind of
adversity that an immigrant hasto go through.
So how can they still developthe same depth of resilience and
(41:09):
adaptability in their own livesif they don't have that same
hardship?
Neri Karra Sillaman (41:15):
I say this quite often you don't have to be
an immigrant, you don't have togo through adversity in order
to apply these principles that Imentioned in my book.
And often we think resilienceand I've written many articles
for Fast Company, especially onthe topic of resilience Many
times we think resilience meansyou have to be stronger, you
(41:38):
have to keep going, butsometimes resilience also looks
like I need to take a break andasking for help, like I need to
take a break and asking for help.
Something I want to clarifywhen immigrants are able to have
this grit, their superpower isother people.
You are only able to reframe tocreate the kind of businesses
(42:02):
you create or have theresilience because of other
people.
Businesses you create or havethe resilience because of other
people, other people in yourbusiness, in your life, your
community, your family.
That's why one of the mainprinciples and, very
deliberately, the way immigrantshave created their businesses
is based on community, otherpeople.
That's a very strategic act andit's not by accident that they,
(42:29):
when they start to rebuildtheir lives in a new country,
but also their businesses, theyfocus on other people.
Anne McGinty (42:39):
What do you mean by that?
You mean they're focused on thedevelopment of the
relationships with their teamand distributors, like the
strength of those.
Neri Karra Sillaman (42:48):
Let me give you an example.
So when Hamdi Ulukaya, thefounder of Chobani, bought the
craft factory the old craftfactory and was going to start
Chobani, he enters the town andhe sees that everyone there it's
like someone died.
And when he starts to rebuildthe factory, he starts to employ
(43:11):
people who already worked inthe craft factory and he starts
to do it together with all thepeople in the town.
So that's what I mean from abusiness perspective.
So that's what I mean from abusiness perspective.
And when an immigrant comes to anew country, they often lose
(43:31):
the connections.
They either lose their familiesor their friends.
They almost come here withnothing and it's a very
deliberate act where they willrely on other people, whether
that's us finding a long-lostrelative who opened their home
to us, whether it's finding thebusiness card of a person and
(43:55):
look for a business opportunity,or whether, when we start our
company and we start to bring inall of our family members
together, there is atogetherness, there is a focus
on community, on other people,and that gives you incredible
strength when your business goesinto trouble.
That again gives you a lift,gives you a boost, because they
(44:18):
can either say to you okay, Iknow you are going through a
hard time.
I am here for you and let'slook for solution together.
Or maybe that's not a good pathyou are going to take.
Whether it's in business orlife, you need other people, and
that's the biggest factor yourcommunity, friends, other people
(44:43):
in your life.
Anne McGinty (44:45):
Do you notice this when you consult with other
companies, the differencebetween the approach in
developing that community with,say, chobani's founder, versus
another company where you may goin?
And there is a lot of talkabout developing team culture
and you hear human resourcedepartments are very focused on
(45:06):
trying to support the mentalhealth of their team.
But what I'm asking is is theapproach different from what the
Chobani founder did to what yousee when it's being rolled out
by a human resource department?
Neri Karra Sillaman (45:22):
Such a good point and I talk about it in
the book Authenticity.
So this is the difference whenyou do it because you have to or
the HR tells you or because aconsultant told you, versus it
comes from your heart and that'sa real value.
(45:42):
It comes from why you do thatbusiness.
Value, it comes from why you dothat business.
So that's the difference.
And at the end of each chapterI ended it with practical advice
for leaders to follow.
One of them that I was like Ican't repeat, I can't say
authenticity again, but this isso important.
So how do you establish that?
You have to ask yourself andthat was the second principle
(46:06):
about identifying your valuesand what matters to you.
This is so important for you tobe authentic and to say what
matters to me as a business,where am I failing short?
What can I do better?
And doing things.
And sometimes to say you know,I'm not sure if this is going to
(46:26):
work and I don't know if thisis the right path for me, but I
would like to try this approach.
And when you come from thatplace of authenticity, the
result is different.
Anne McGinty (46:39):
Yeah, that's.
That is.
What I was wondering is just,and it is, you're right, it's
authenticity, it's realcompassion for others.
Yes, so just to start wrappingup here, cause I know we're up
against the clock, what advicewould you give to a young person
(47:00):
right now, someone growing upwith limited means, who aspires
to start their own business?
What advice would you give them?
Neri Karra Sillaman (47:06):
Trust your crazy idea.
It's written also on the deskof Noubara Feyyan, the founder
of Moderna, who comes from anArmenian-Lebanese family.
He immigrated to the US when hewas a child.
My advice will be trust yourvision, trust your crazy idea,
because I know it worked for me.
It worked for millions ofothers, and it may sound
(47:30):
unattainable at the time when Istood at the border and I had
the idea I want to get that idea.
I had the vision and I made adecision I need to get a good
education.
That really was my North Star.
That pulled me through verychallenging situations, from
(47:51):
being bullied at school to notfeeling good enough about myself
.
I knew my destination was thatmythical education and I did
reach it, which I did end upgoing to my dream school, which
was doing a PhD at Cambridge,and I feel incredibly fortunate.
(48:11):
But I also faced many failuresin that journey.
I failed to get into theTurkish university.
I did fail exams too.
It's not like I had thisperfect path that led me to that
vision.
No, but I trusted my crazy ideaand eventually I trusted that
(48:34):
we are going to have asuccessful business.
So trust your crazy idea.
You may have detours and thingsmay happen.
That can look like failure andrejection and you will have many
doors slam at your face butknow where you are going and
that you are going to get there.
Anne McGinty (48:55):
That vision, to see where you want to go and to
see it happening.
It's so important.
I believe it really works aswell.
So, just as a final questionhere and I imagine that you have
a lot of life wisdom to give sowhat life wisdom would you give
to anyone who is entering orgraduating from college right
(49:16):
now?
Neri Karra Sillaman (49:17):
Well, I just spoke at my alma mater at
University of Miami and I thinkI gave them a similar advice
that to trust, because in theend, you are going to get there.
You are going to get there.
Anne McGinty (49:38):
Neri, this has been such an inspiring
conversation.
I admire your story so much.
I believe you are aninspiration for anybody who is
going to listen and I reallyappreciate you sharing
vulnerably parts of your storywhich are just.
They're really incredible.
Neri Karra Sillaman (49:57):
So thank you talking to you and before we
even started our conversation.
I know you have such acompassionate heart, and because
of your parents' background aswell.
Yeah, I know you understood meand I really appreciate being
(50:20):
here.
Anne McGinty (50:21):
Well, and, as I had mentioned to you before, we
jumped on just reading elementsof your book and and really
feeling your story.
It was upwelling these emotionsin me that I feel there is no,
there's no one single Englishword to describe.
But it is that awe for thejourney, it's the pride, it is
(50:41):
the sort of amazement, butthere's also an element of pain
in the heart at the same time,just because of how difficult it
really was.
But then I wish I could put itinto one word, you know, but
that that joy, that joy that youfeel when you wrap it all up
and you reflect back on it andjust think, well, wow, I mean in
(51:03):
my circumstance, I think if myparents could do it, anybody can
do it.
And in listening to your story,I think the same thing.
If you could do it, anybody cando it.
And in listening to your story,I think the same thing, If you
could do that.
Well, that means that anybodycould do that, Exactly.
Neri Karra Sillaman (51:13):
And this is so important to have
representation, to have anexample and I'm not saying like
I am the example, but I hadinspiration.
I had examples myself that Ifollowed and gave me courage and
trust and faith that I can doit.
And it's very funny, maybe, butI listened to Oprah.
(51:35):
When I came to United Statesfor the first time, I discovered
Oprah.
I thought she was incrediblyinspirational.
After school, every day, Iwould watch her show and think
to myself wow, she has such adifficult childhood, difficult
life story, but she made it andthat gave me incredible
inspiration.
(51:55):
And when people ask me todaywho is your role model, it's
Oprah.
I don't want to become Oprah, Icannot be, I'm not going to be,
you know, have a TV show and soon.
But she gave me inspiration andthis is very important to have
inspiration to have other rolemodels, others who help you
(52:16):
trust in your crazy idea.
That's right.
Anne McGinty (52:19):
I'm very grateful to have met you and I hope you
stay in touch.
I'm excited to support you andthe launch of your book.
Everybody who's listening init's called Pioneers.
The Eight Principles ofBusiness Longevity from
Immigrant Entrepreneurs.
Thank you, neri, thank you.
Today's key takeaways Reframehardship, for example.
(52:45):
Even in the most difficultcircumstances, there is often a
silver lining.
Being forced to leave home andgrow up overnight gave Neri a
heightened compassion forother's struggles.
So pain can expand your empathy.
When you're in survival mode,no job is too small.
(53:07):
Every opportunity becomes astepping stone.
Humility and hustle can coexist.
In the chaos of modern life.
We forget how rich we truly are.
Clean water, a warm bed, asingle pair of jeans these are
(53:27):
luxuries to many.
Gratitude can ground you andshift your entire perspective.
Recognize and act on luck.
Sometimes the payoff won't comeimmediately, but stay open,
alert and ready to take action.
Be curious when you're in newenvironments.
That one idea, product or habityou observe might be your next
(53:53):
breakthrough back home.
Building bridges betweencultures can spark new business
ideas.
So expose yourself to newplaces and observe the
differences around you.
The differences around you.
(54:13):
Focus on positivity, meaningacknowledge and celebrate all of
the small wins in your journey.
They build confidence andmomentum.
In many immigrant journeys,everyone contributes.
When you leave everythingbehind, you learn how to build
relationships and community fromscratch.
You also learn to rely on or bethe pillar for others.
(54:35):
When you're surrounded bypeople working toward a shared
vision, resilience becomescollective.
So find, nurture and lean intoyour community.
As Neri's grandfather says, fryin your own oil.
This means resourcefulness isborn when you stop waiting for
(54:59):
external solutions.
Look within.
What do you already have thatno one can take away from you?
Build with that.
The best businesses are rootedin generosity.
Ask what can I contribute?
How can I create value?
(55:20):
Lasting companies care deeplyabout people, customers,
employees and communities.
Raising money prematurely candilute your creativity.
Constraints, however, canfoster clarity.
So build lean, test often andresist the urge to raise capital
(55:42):
too soon when your product orservice isn't landing.
Don't panic.
Get curious.
What needs to change?
What feedback might you beresisting?
While some immigrants startbusinesses out of necessity,
that's only part of the story.
(56:03):
In fact, immigrants are morelikely to create companies that
last.
46% of Fortune 500 companieswere founded by immigrants or
their children.
Think Google, moderna,nordstrom, intel.
Immigrants are not victims,they are visionaries.
(56:26):
Redefine rejection in business.
No is not the end.
It's often the start of abetter idea, a clearer pitch or
a different path.
Rejection is simply redirection.
Look at ways you might be ableto turn waste into wealth.
Neri built her luxury brandusing discarded leather from
(56:49):
high-end manufacturers.
Innovation often comes fromreimagining what others overlook
.
Is there a byproduct or wastedresource that could spark a
business idea for you?
Lead from a place ofauthenticity.
For you, lead from a place ofauthenticity.
(57:12):
There is a big differencebetween I'm doing this because I
should versus I'm doing thisbecause I want to.
When your motivation is rootedin purpose, everything changes.
So ask yourself what matters tome?
What can I do better?
And, lastly to me, what can Ido better?
(57:34):
And lastly, trust your crazyidea.
Every bold vision looks riskyat first.
Doors will slam and people willdoubt you, but if your idea
comes from conviction andclarity, keep going.
Trust your crazy idea.
That's it for today.
I release episodes once a week,so come back and check it out.
Have a great day.
Welcome to how I Built my Small Business.
I'm Anne McGinty, your host.
As the daughter of immigrants,I've often turned to my own
parents' story for inspiration abelief that we're all capable
of achieving anything we trulybelieve in.
That we're all capable ofachieving anything we truly
believe in, and a reminder thattaking risks is often the key to
(00:29):
making meaningful leaps in life.
Today, I'm joined by Neri KaraSillaman, who shares her
extraordinary journey fromfleeing her home country as a
refugee to building a globalluxury brand and teaching
entrepreneurship at Oxford.
She's a three-time TEDx speakerand the author of Pioneers
(00:54):
Eight Principles of BusinessLongevity from Immigrant
Entrepreneurs, which has reachednumber one in multiple Amazon
categories, includingentrepreneurship, business
diversity and equality, and newreleases.
Her work has been featured inHarvard Business Review and Fast
(01:15):
Company, and she's calling infrom Paris for today's interview
.
You can find links to connectwith Neri in the episode's
description.
Neri, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for inviting me, it'sreally a pleasure.
So, looking back at yourchildhood, what moments had the
(01:38):
biggest impact on who you aretoday?
Neri Karra Sillaman (01:44):
Oh, there's many.
When I was 11 years old and wehad to immigrate, we had to
become refugees in 1989,alongside 360,000 Bulgarians of
Turkish ethnicity, and havingthat very traumatic experience
and sudden experience, becausethat day I had gone to the
(02:05):
library, I had picked up books,and I come home and my mom tells
me you need to go back andreturn them, we have to leave.
And you are living this life asyou know.
You have a plan.
I really wanted to go to theEnglish high school.
They call it Angliska Gymnaziain Bulgarian.
I had just gotten in.
(02:27):
So and one day your life changesand it's very sudden.
So that's one experience thathad a big impact in my life
because from that moment on,when I stood at the border and
looking at all the confusionaround me and together with my
parents and my nine-year-oldbrother, all we had were two
(02:47):
suitcases to our name.
We didn't have a place to go.
In fact, we were set up to livein a refugee camp which was set
up by Red Cross at the borderTurkish border and we stayed
there for several months.
And in that moment I made adecision.
There were two realizations.
One is my childhood just ended.
(03:07):
I'm no longer 11 years old.
And the second one is I need toget a good education and that's
a very defining moment.
And it's a very definingdecision because education is
what I do, Even when I thinkabout how we run our family
business, what I do, even when Ithink about how we run our
(03:28):
family business, even the reasonwhy I wrote the book, even why
I have to.
I want to go back to teaching,even though it's part-time,
education is the entire purposeof my whole life and that's a
very defining moment.
Of course, you have othermoments growing up, where I come
(03:48):
from an ethnic minority family,and one of the early feelings
I'm not even going to call it amemory, early feelings is shame,
because I knew we weredifferent, we were treated
differently.
The communist government at thetime decided to carry out an
ethnic assimilation processwhere the names of Turkish
(04:10):
Bulgarians were changed fromTurkish to Bulgarian names and
for months, even years, with myparents, I would run, they would
run, we would hide, and we werenot allowed to speak Turkish,
we were not allowed to practiceour customs, our culture, our
religion.
So you are, immediately, youhave this feeling when you go to
(04:32):
school that you are not likethe others and, by the way, when
we went to school, we livedvery close together with the
other ethnic minorities, whichwere the Roma, gypsies and the
Turkish ethnic Bulgarians.
So you already are in some waysegregated and when we went to
(04:52):
school, it was together with theRoma, gypsies and Turkish
Bulgarians.
Like us, I did get a very goodeducation, but you immediately
know from a very early age thatthe feeling I got as a child
there is something wrong with meand that was an early memory
(05:15):
that I feel ashamed.
I should be ashamed of who I am.
My name is not right, myreligion is not right, my
culture is not right.
My religion is not right, myculture is not right.
So this is a very definingunfortunately a very defining
moment.
But I like to look at the giftsin every difficult situation
(05:36):
and for me, one of them is thatI think it makes me a lot more
compassionate to the pain ofother people and what they go
through.
Anne McGinty (05:48):
Yeah, you're seeing the positive in the
situation, which sounds like avery heartbreaking one, and I
think that that's also a superstrength of immigrants is being
able to, as you say in your book, reframe these situations so
that you see the positive thatcomes from it.
Yes, Can you take us back towhen you then went from the
(06:10):
refugee camp to Istanbul andwhat that experience was like?
Neri Karra Sillaman (06:15):
So my father tracked down a relative
who had immigrated in 1978 toIstanbul.
He tracked her down, managed toget a phone number for her, but
after we were months in therefugee camp he called her from
a phone booth.
I was with him and said Türkan,Yenge, Aunt Türkan, we are at
(06:38):
the border with my family.
And she said come on over.
She opened her home to fiveother families.
Like us, she doesn't have a bighome.
Also, none of us worked.
We shared the same food.
She shared her home with us,her food and her children, who
today work in our factory.
(06:59):
The daughter is our accountantand the son is our manager.
Her son bought me my first bluejeans because growing up in
Bulgaria, in communist Bulgaria,you don't have brands, you
don't have these fancy things,and my dream was to own blue
jeans.
And he took me to the streetmarket and he basically bought
(07:21):
me a pair of jeans, just rightthen and there, and I really
cherish them very much.
Or Nutella we didn't haveNutella.
They bought us our firstNutella.
And then, when we get to livewith them, of course my parents
start to immediately look forjobs.
My mom started to work at atextile factory.
(07:43):
My father worked in roadconstruction, Any jobs that they
could find they would take, andthe Turkish government, because
there were 360,000 Bulgariansof Turkish ethnicity who came to
the border.
They established somethingcalled assimilation.
I don't know how to translate,but it's an educational
(08:05):
assimilation program that youhave to take.
Before you are allowed to startthe school they have to check
your level, and we didn'tactually speak Turkish like the
local Turks do.
We had a dialect that couldn'treally be understood.
It wasn't how local Turks spoke.
So you go to school to learnTurkish, to really assimilate to
(08:29):
the Turkish educational system,and after that in September you
can start school.
We immigrated in June and inSeptember I was finally able to
start school a little late.
I actually remember that aswell.
I started about a month lateand my parents eventually moved
(08:51):
out of my aunt's home, but to avery rundown one of the ghetto
areas of Turkey.
We didn't have money to buybread.
Some evenings we didn't haveheating.
My mom burned our shoes, andshoes we weren't wearing anymore
.
So just so we can have someheating in the house, it was
(09:12):
very challenging times,certainly when people come to
Ellis Island.
There is a famous writing thatsays I was told roads will be
paved I'm paraphrasing here willbe paved with marble.
Not only were they not pavedwith marble, I was expected to
pave them, that's right.
And I had a very similarexperience.
(09:34):
So as a child, my grandmotherwould tell us, because we were
not treated well by thecommunist government, our names
being changed, not given thesame rights as the local
Bulgarians.
So, my grandmother will tell us, when we go to Turkey, our
(09:56):
lives will be amazing.
All of this will be over.
Streets in Turkey are paved withmarble.
There are faucets, goldenfaucets, wherever you walk in
the streets.
She will describe heaven to me.
And when we immigrated therewas no such thing.
I was shocked.
(10:17):
I was shocked by the colors,overwhelmed by the smells, by
the dirt, because the area wemoved into wasn't the fancy
parts of Istanbul.
Istanbul is a beautiful city,but there are also especially in
1989, there are parts of itthat are very run down.
So I remember the shock of it.
(10:38):
It was quite challenging timesand I went to school with 83
students in one classroomsitting in one desk, but three
or four students have to sit inone desk.
We couldn't afford to buynotebooks for each subject, for
each subject in my notebook.
I had to really focus andmemorize what the teachers were
saying, and I think that's alsolike if I'm reframing that
(11:02):
situation.
It gave me good memory gave megood memory.
Anne McGinty (11:28):
What I'm hearing is that you faced one adversity
over another, over another andit just kept on changing and you
were forced to adapt and beresilient to come through.
And I also was hearing that youhad a lot of gratitude for very
little.
You say, a pair of jeansbrought you so much joy, or a
jar of Nutella.
And it reminds me of my ownparents' journey.
(11:50):
My dad was one of six, and thenhis parents, and they would
sometimes share one drumstick ofchicken for dinner at night.
But you you know your storywith the burning of the shoes
just to have some heat.
It causes an emotional feelingfor me just hearing you tell
this part of your story.
(12:10):
How did your family then gofrom first refugee camp to then
Istanbul, to then moving intotheir own location, to then
starting a fashion business?
Neri Karra Sillaman (12:24):
Very good question.
So in Bulgaria, when we werevacationing one summer, my
father met a Turkish businessman.
Actually it happened bycomplete coincidence and I talk
about luck.
In my book, the very lastchapter and this is one of those
lucky moments in life that youcan't plan, it just happens.
(12:45):
He heard us talking Turkish.
I was actually singing a song.
He heard me.
He came over and said are youTurks?
And to see a Turkish person inBulgaria at the time is unheard
of.
It just didn't happen.
This is communism.
Foreign people don't comethrough and if they do, they
leave immediately.
But he was there when we werevacationing and he said to my
(13:10):
father this is my business card.
I make wallets and leatherproducts in Turkey.
If you happen to ever come toTurkey, you can come visit me.
But that's like someone sayingto you, like if you win the
lottery or if you get to heavenone day, you know it's like it's
just, you don't leave Bulgaria.
It's communism, it doesn'thappen.
(13:32):
So shortly after we immigrated,the Berlin Wall fell and that
meant communism fell.
But communism fell in Russia,in all the Soviet republics, and
many people there were notallowed to become entrepreneurs.
You are not allowed to own abusiness trade.
(13:53):
None of that.
The second the Berlin Wallfalls.
There is such mayhem in thosecountries.
First of all, everything wasstate controlled and no longer
is.
But people also are no longerable to buy food the way they
used to, because it's a big,major transition that's
(14:14):
happening Soviet republics toGeorgia, to Azerbaijan, to the
former Soviet republics,basically because we come from
communism ourselves.
So we spoke Russian andculturally he felt this is a lot
(14:35):
closer to me than being Turkish, which is ironic.
You know, we are in Turkey but,like I was telling you, our
language is a little different.
Our customs are more of aBulgarian communist, you know
it's different and culturally weare a lot closer to Russian,
former Soviet Republic,ukrainian type of culture.
(14:57):
So he goes to Russia and he seesopportunity there because he
noticed that people werecarrying their belongings in
plastic bags.
There were no leather wallets,no bags available, there were no
super, like nothing.
There were no stores available.
We are talking 1990s.
Wow, what?
(15:18):
Yes, of course this is how itwas.
Of course this is how it was.
(15:39):
And he says to himself if I sellleather wallets, leather bags,
it's going to sell because thereis nothing here.
But of course he doesn't livecard which, by the way, we had
two suitcases and that businesscard and my mom, in the rush of
when she was putting togetherthe suitcase, trying to get
everything in it was June shetook winter clothes.
(16:03):
So we all actually immigratedto Turkey with winter clothes in
the middle of June and one ofthe suitcases was unfortunately
filled with winter clothesbecause in the rush to leave she
didn't take the anyway.
But that business card camewith us and my father went to
him and said remember me, I'mhere not to ask to be an
(16:26):
employee in the company.
I'm not here to ask to be acraftsman.
I don't know how to makewallets, but I'm here with a
business idea.
If you trust me, like, let metry.
You have nothing to lose.
And he started with a handful ofwallets and it sold very
(16:49):
quickly.
And he sold them the initialones in the street market very
quickly.
And he came back and his ideawas to open a very small store
in the grand bazaar area ofistanbul, grand Bazaar area of
Istanbul, because that's whereall the Russian, former Soviet,
(17:09):
former communist people who wantto start a business back in
their home are also coming.
And it was the biggestsupporter of the Turkish economy
.
It's called the luggage trade.
In my PhD I talk about this.
It brought so much to theluggage trade.
In my PhD I talk about this.
It brought so much to theTurkish economy the number of
there were millions, millions ofRussian former Soviet Republic
(17:33):
people coming through the borderto the luggage trade area, to
the Grand Bazaar area.
What they will do is buy thesetextile, leather products, bring
them back to their country,sell it and come back, buy again
.
And they brought everythingback to their country in these
luggages.
(17:53):
That's why it's called luggagetrade.
Anne McGinty (17:56):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, I got so many chills inyour story just from imagining
your dad being in Russia andnoticing that people were
carrying their items in plasticbags.
I mean, first of all, he had toobserve that, recognize the
opportunity, but then also, asyou're saying, the luck of the
businessman.
However, your family did holdon to that business card.
Neri Karra Sillaman (18:19):
Exactly.
You know, in the book I talkabout luck.
Luck is not something justserendipitous that happens to
you.
What you said.
He has to recognize that.
You have to see it, you have torecognize when luck happens and
take action on it.
And maybe that luck is notgoing to be immediate, maybe
it's going to be in severalyears, as it happened in our
(18:41):
case.
But open your eyes and openyour horizon.
And I think one thing aboutimmigrants is they are what I
have observed in my researchthey are very open to
opportunities.
They know things will not behanded to them, they know they
have to make their own luck andbecause of that they are very
(19:03):
aware.
And another thing in my book Italk about cross-cultural
bridging.
Something my father did wasbecome a bridge between two
different cultures the Turkishculture, russian, former
communist culture, and almost abridge between communism and
democracy too.
Because he's able to createthis trade and at the time how
(19:27):
he makes money is basically hetakes commission of out of the
products that he sells andthat's that's basically how he
starts to.
When I say make money, we arenot making millions, not at all
initially, but at least we areable to move to a better area.
We are now able to rent abetter apartment, we have
(19:50):
heating, we can go to betterschools, and I was around the
age of 15 at the time when thiswas happening.
And this is when I come intothe business, because I looked
at what my father was sellingand I said this has no branding
on it.
We have to create branding, butat the time, in former Soviet
(20:14):
republics there is no such thingas Giorgio Armani, prada,
versace I mean, right now thereare sanctions and there isn't,
but at the time those brandsbecause it's so volatile to
enter these markets no Westernbrands were in these markets.
So we created a brand and we hadbasically advertisement around
(20:39):
it.
There was a slogan all forquality, quality for you.
I came up with it.
There were ads that wedeveloped with our distributors,
and I will take the Turkishmanufacturers to Italy, to the
trade fairs.
Basically, the idea was thereare these trade fairs in Italy
that happen every two years inBologna, where all the big
(21:02):
fashion brands buy their leather, metal accessories from, and
they also started to upgrade thequality.
But also I was able to seewhere the top manufacturers of
leather products are, where thetop manufacturers of leather
skins are where Chanel, lvmh,kering, prada, where they why
(21:26):
their skins from.
So it was really starting fromthe very beginning and I started
working with my mom and my dadand my brother was also in the
business.
Everyone is in the business.
I mean, that's the immigrantstory.
Everyone is helping outeveryone is helping out.
Anne McGinty (21:48):
I can imagine the joy that you must have all felt
and the gratitude for even justwhat some over here would
consider to be sort of likeminor upgrades in your life.
But you earned it and togetheras a family you created
something and then work togetherto make it grow, but then also
the building of therelationships with that
businessman and putting it alltogether.
(22:10):
I know in your book you sharethis concept that you learned
from your grandfather aboutfrying in your own oil, and I
was wondering if you can explainwhat that means and how it
impacted you and your family'sapproach to business.
Neri Karra Sillaman (22:27):
Hugely.
It still does to this day.
Frying in your own oil if thereare any Turkish listeners, they
will know it directlytranslates to frying your own
oil, which means to beself-sufficient.
Make the most with what youhave, and this applies not only
to business.
This can apply to anything youdo in life.
(22:50):
You have to stop lookingoutside of yourself but look
within and see what is uniqueabout you.
And you know and I teachstrategy.
So if you look at the resourcesand capabilities, when
businesses try to identify theirsustained strategic advantage,
they actually have to look atthe resources that they have.
(23:13):
And I think this very muchapplies to business strategy,
because you have to see what isunique about you.
What is one thing that nobodycan take from you?
One thing that nobody can takefrom you, what are the resources
that you have that are your ownand that they cannot be
replaced?
And, of course, this issomething when we were starting
(23:36):
the business.
We almost had no choice.
Because you are an immigrant,you have to look at everyone
worked in the family business.
But also that comes from thefact that we don't have capital
to go outside and hire.
We don't know how to raisemoney.
We are talking about 1990s asan immigrant-founded business.
(23:57):
Nobody is going to say to youyeah, sure, I believe in you.
Here is a million dollars.
That's not going to happen.
So we have built our businesscompletely with our own
resources.
We employed a lot of our familymembers in the business.
Of course, we pay them.
That's not what that means, butthat gives you trust.
(24:18):
That's number one thing, andeveryone is very much on the
same boat as you, workingtowards the same vision as you.
There is something that you arestriving for that you can
create a better life foryourself and for all the other
people in your life.
My uncles worked as truckdrivers.
(24:38):
My aunt worked at a factory,actually also as a tailor.
So all of this is not just foryourself, and everyone is
working to better their livesbecause we are all in this
together.
To this day, we never raisedany outside capital.
We don't have investors, andthis still continues in our
(25:00):
business.
I think there are also downsidesto it.
So you have to watch out.
I'm not advising you shouldnever borrow money.
You should never hire outside.
You know people who are outsideof your family.
Not at all.
That's not what I'm saying,because there comes a point in
the business where you have to,in order to expand and go bigger
(25:22):
, you have to bring in anoutside perspective.
So that's a mistake.
So you have to watch out, likewhen to make that decision, like
the inflection point, becausethat's not going to also
continue forever and ever.
But one principle that I thinkis very important and something
(25:43):
that I see with startups,because I work with startups at
Oxford.
They immediately say, oh, Ihave to raise money.
That's number one thing.
And I say not so fast, becausethis, in my opinion, kills the
creativity.
And if your business is notprofitable, if you are not
(26:04):
making, let's not even sayprofitable.
If your product is notprofitable, if you are not
making, let's not even sayprofitable.
If your product is not sellingor service is not selling, you
have to ask yourself why is that?
And if you go immediately toraise money, this can create a
blind spot for you.
You are not going to be able tosee what's happening in your
business.
(26:25):
So frying in your own oil hasthat benefit as well.
It's going to allow you to veryclearly see the challenge that
you are facing and why yourproduct is not maybe selling as
well as it should, and thechanges you need to make.
Anne McGinty (26:39):
And then you grow at a pace that is sustainable
for your business.
Neri Karra Sillaman (26:45):
Exactly.
This is so important.
Anne McGinty (26:47):
Yeah, the resourcefulness is something
that I've witnessed withimmigrants that I know or also
in other cultures like.
My husband is from New Zealandand I feel that Kiwis are
naturally resourceful.
The economy there is quitesmaller than it is in the United
States, and so they are forcedto be more creative with their
branding, to be better withcustomer service, to do more to
(27:12):
get that market share becausethere's just not as much flow of
money.
So now, with Nerikara, yourbrand, or your family's brand,
can you describe to us the levelof success that it has reached
today?
Neri Karra Sillaman (27:27):
Well, today we are in business for 25 years
and we made the decision toalso produce for other Italian
luxury brands as well.
We produce for Prada and Miu Miu, and this is something that we
take pride in, because ourcraftsmanship and manufacturing,
(27:48):
our ability is outstanding andthe brand is also.
Today, I have to say somethingthat is maybe going to be
surprising we have our factoryin Istanbul, but I myself am
based in France.
I got married, I came here fora job offer, which was to be an
associate professor at one ofthe business schools, and I
(28:11):
became a mother, which also ledme to make some decisions in my
life, which one of them was thatI want to pursue what is my
true passion, which is education, writing, teaching, consulting,
advising passion, which iseducation, writing, teaching,
consulting, advising and this iswhat I've been doing for the
last few years, and today thebusiness is run by my family, by
(28:32):
my parents.
So there is a separation thathappened, a very amicable
separation and a loving one, andI think that was the right
thing for me.
And the business knock on Woodis still very successful and we
employ 175 people in Turkey.
We have operations in Bulgariaas well as in Turkey.
Anne McGinty (28:55):
You must just feel a swell of pride that your
family has done what they'vedone over those 25 years, has
done what they've done overthose 25 years and especially
given your beginnings and howmuch difficulty you faced.
It's such a beautiful,heartwarming story that I know
(29:18):
many people resonate with.
I wanted to touch on astatistic that you mentioned in
your book.
To touch on a statistic thatyou mentioned in your book,
which is that immigrants aretwice as likely as native born
residents to be entrepreneurs,and some of that I think
listeners will have alreadyheard and what we've discussed,
(29:38):
but is there anything else thatyou'd like to touch on as to why
that may be?
Neri Karra Sillaman (29:45):
Very good point.
So in the business literaturethey will say immigrants are
more likely to becomeentrepreneurs, which is a fact,
and of course the businessliterature attributes necessity
entrepreneurship as one of thefactors for that to happen.
Because they immigrate, theyhave no choice but to become
(30:06):
entrepreneurs.
Their education is notrecognized.
They want to upwardly mobilize,they want a better life for
themselves and they will becomeentrepreneurs.
However, until pioneers, nobodyhas asked why are immigrants
more likely to start businesses?
(30:28):
That last, because that'sanother very important statistic
46% of Fortune 500 companiesare started by immigrants, and
this is a huge statistic.
We have Nordstrom.
We have some exceptionalcompanies Tesla Okay, one of
them, google.
We have Procter Gamble.
(30:50):
They are all started byimmigrants.
And Pfizer, moderna all startedby immigrants.
Today we have vaccine.
We were able to have a vaccinebecause of immigrants, the
COVID-19 vaccine.
We owe it to them.
Our computer is powered I startmy book with that because of a
(31:13):
chip inside it called Intel.
The founder, one of the earlyfounders, is an immigrant.
He's a refugee, andrew Grove,and nobody has really talked
about in the literature, andthis is what bothered me almost
like talking about immigrants asif they are powerless.
They have no choice but tostart a business.
(31:35):
But I wanted to change theconversation and talk about
immigrants from an empoweredplace, because that's, in my
opinion, very rarely talkedabout.
Place, because that's, in myopinion, very rarely talked
about.
We either think of them as somepeople to be pitied because they
have to be deported, or theydon't have the resources, or we
(31:56):
think of them as people who hadno choice but to become
entrepreneurs, and that's notalways the case.
So that's basically the reasonwhy I started to write Pioneers,
because when I looked at thosestatistics, I was myself, even
though during my PhD I've beenwriting about ethnic
(32:19):
entrepreneurship, necessityentrepreneurship.
These are concepts I'm veryfamiliar with.
Even myself, I had the blindspot where I didn't see
immigrant entrepreneurs fromthat perspective.
So for me that's something Iwant to emphasize They've
started exceptional companies.
(32:40):
They've revolutionizedindustries.
Industries and their businessesthat they create are more
likely, statistically, to lastlonger than those who are native
born.
Anne McGinty (32:54):
What do you think gives them that staying power?
Neri Karra Sillaman (32:58):
One of them is that they don't start their
business thinking I'm going toget in and get out.
I'm going to raise a lot ofmoney, make as much money as
possible and get out.
So that's where businesslongevity concept comes to play,
because in the book I also sayif you picked up this book
(33:19):
thinking you are going to makequick cash, it's not for you,
because business longevity andthe way I talk about business
longevity immigrantentrepreneurs think about legacy
, think about what can I give,not what can I take, and that's
a very major difference.
When they start theirbusinesses, there is the idea of
(33:42):
giving back, giving value, andthat's the staying power.
When they create businesses,they think about community, they
think about shared value, theythink about other people,
employees, and that's thebiggest difference.
And, of course, other points.
They reframe rejection and tothem, rejection and failure
(34:06):
doesn't mean the same thing aswould to others.
To them, failure is not failure.
Hearing the word no is whenit's the beginning of the
conversation.
It's the beginning of business,it's not the end.
By the way, this happens to usas well.
When we first made our veryfirst collection, I graduated
(34:27):
from University of Miami and Iwent to my father and I said,
instead of selling the leatherproducts of this other company,
why don't we create our ownbrand?
And we made our very firstcollection from the leather
offcuts that our Italiansuppliers, who also supply for
Chanel, lvmh, huge brands butthey would have a small defect
(34:52):
or it was an off-season leatherthat they were no longer going
to produce or use and they wouldeither give it for free or just
throw it away or sell it forvery little.
So the idea was we would takethat leather, create a
collection, and that collectionwas making mobile phone covers
(35:13):
for Nokia I am that ancientbecause there was Nokia at the
time, not iPhone that we havetoday and in those countries it
was like a status symbol tocarry your phone on your belt or
to really have a phone coverfor your phone, like that was a
(35:33):
big deal.
So we made these very beautifuljewel like mobile phone covers
and wallets and belts very smallcollection and went to this big
main distributor and you know,if he carries our products we
are going to be in, the businesswill start.
(35:55):
And he looked at it and I saidI never heard of the brand Neri
Cara.
This is a huge risk for me.
I don't really care aboutquality.
I'm not sure.
You guys are producers.
Anyway, you can create acollection today, but I don't
know if the rest will happen.
So no, and we didn't let thatstop us.
For us, it meant we have tofind a different way, we have to
(36:19):
look for different distributors, and I think that's something
that I've observed, and with allthe immigrant entrepreneurs I
interviewed and studied.
To them, no doesn't mean no.
It's the beginning ofconversation, it's the beginning
of negotiation, it's thebeginning of business.
Anne McGinty (36:39):
These stories are so inspirational.
I mean you're saying that aclosed door is not a closed door
, it's just a door or there'sanother one.
Exactly, you just kept ontrying.
But also you found a way, likeyour grandfather said, to fry in
your own oil, to have resourcesthat you didn't have the
(37:02):
capital for by getting theoffcuts of the leather that was
going to be thrown away anyway.
I find so much inspiration fromwhat you're saying and also, as
we were discussing before, wejumped on the call.
In a time when immigrants arejust being so misunderstood and
they're being viewed withsuspicion, I feel that there is
(37:24):
actually so much contributionand inspiration and compassion
and leadership that has comefrom entrepreneur immigrants and
I was wondering what you wishanybody listening in who doesn't
maybe know immigrants ordoesn't fully understand how
much they sometimes can gothrough.
(37:45):
What do you wish theyunderstood more?
Neri Karra Sillaman (37:50):
Well, they can only look around themselves
and see the contributionimmigrants are making, and not
just by washing dishes at therestaurant.
You know, often I think this issomething that really I want to
use gets to me when theconversation happens.
But look at immigrants they arehelping in the restaurants and
(38:12):
they are our nannies and theywash the streets or wash the
dishes at the restaurant, and,yes, that's true, but that's not
what immigrants should bereduced to, and they are highly
resourceful.
It's the ultimate act ofreinvention to be able to leave
your country with nothing, tohave to restart your life from
(38:36):
absolute scratch, not knowing asoul in that country, and that
takes exceptional amount ofresourcefulness, resilience,
hard work, integrity, and Ithink right now there is.
Unfortunately, immigrants arebeing used.
The topic of immigration isbeing used to divide us, and
(38:57):
it's done very much on purposeand deliberately, and that's
unfortunate.
That's really very muchunfortunate, but I would invite
anyone to simply open their eyesand see it for what it is.
It's being used as a tool inorder to divide us, and I know
(39:19):
someone asked me recently howwould you describe America in
one word?
It was in an interview and myimmediate answer was hope and
she said you really sound likean entrepreneur.
And I said no, I sound like animmigrant.
Because that's what immigrantsdo they see the positives in
anything.
There is a poem I use in my bookwe are everything Hermana
(39:43):
because we come from nothing,everything Hermana because we
come from nothing.
And there is this reframing ofa situation or reframing of a
concept, where I see it as hopebecause I know, I know anyone
and every American and I willsay American because I'm talking
(40:03):
to you at the moment, but Ithink this is happening
worldwide People are better andhave goodness in their heart and
I know we are better togetherand we are stronger united, and
I know people and anyone isgoing to wake up and see that.
I don't know if it's going tohappen in a day or tomorrow, but
(40:26):
it is going to happen because Ihave hope.
Anne McGinty (40:30):
I hope as well yes , I hope as well that the
goodness of people most peoplein the world are good.
Neri Karra Sillaman (40:35):
They are, they are yeah, and when I talk
to people one-on-one, that'swhat I see, yeah.
Anne McGinty (40:42):
So we both know immigrant founders.
They develop grit just by goingthrough these hard transitions
that they go through.
But not everyone who'slistening in is going to
understand that depth ofadaptability and the kind of
adversity that an immigrant hasto go through.
So how can they still developthe same depth of resilience and
(41:09):
adaptability in their own livesif they don't have that same
hardship?
Neri Karra Sillaman (41:15):
I say this quite often you don't have to be
an immigrant, you don't have togo through adversity in order
to apply these principles that Imentioned in my book.
And often we think resilienceand I've written many articles
for Fast Company, especially onthe topic of resilience Many
times we think resilience meansyou have to be stronger, you
(41:38):
have to keep going, butsometimes resilience also looks
like I need to take a break andasking for help, like I need to
take a break and asking for help.
Something I want to clarifywhen immigrants are able to have
this grit, their superpower isother people.
You are only able to reframe tocreate the kind of businesses
(42:02):
you create or have theresilience because of other
people.
Businesses you create or havethe resilience because of other
people, other people in yourbusiness, in your life, your
community, your family.
That's why one of the mainprinciples and, very
deliberately, the way immigrantshave created their businesses
is based on community, otherpeople.
That's a very strategic act andit's not by accident that they,
(42:29):
when they start to rebuildtheir lives in a new country,
but also their businesses, theyfocus on other people.
Anne McGinty (42:39):
What do you mean by that?
You mean they're focused on thedevelopment of the
relationships with their teamand distributors, like the
strength of those.
Neri Karra Sillaman (42:48):
Let me give you an example.
So when Hamdi Ulukaya, thefounder of Chobani, bought the
craft factory the old craftfactory and was going to start
Chobani, he enters the town andhe sees that everyone there it's
like someone died.
And when he starts to rebuildthe factory, he starts to employ
(43:11):
people who already worked inthe craft factory and he starts
to do it together with all thepeople in the town.
So that's what I mean from abusiness perspective.
So that's what I mean from abusiness perspective.
And when an immigrant comes to anew country, they often lose
(43:31):
the connections.
They either lose their familiesor their friends.
They almost come here withnothing and it's a very
deliberate act where they willrely on other people, whether
that's us finding a long-lostrelative who opened their home
to us, whether it's finding thebusiness card of a person and
(43:55):
look for a business opportunity,or whether, when we start our
company and we start to bring inall of our family members
together, there is atogetherness, there is a focus
on community, on other people,and that gives you incredible
strength when your business goesinto trouble.
That again gives you a lift,gives you a boost, because they
(44:18):
can either say to you okay, Iknow you are going through a
hard time.
I am here for you and let'slook for solution together.
Or maybe that's not a good pathyou are going to take.
Whether it's in business orlife, you need other people, and
that's the biggest factor yourcommunity, friends, other people
(44:43):
in your life.
Anne McGinty (44:45):
Do you notice this when you consult with other
companies, the differencebetween the approach in
developing that community with,say, chobani's founder, versus
another company where you may goin?
And there is a lot of talkabout developing team culture
and you hear human resourcedepartments are very focused on
(45:06):
trying to support the mentalhealth of their team.
But what I'm asking is is theapproach different from what the
Chobani founder did to what yousee when it's being rolled out
by a human resource department?
Neri Karra Sillaman (45:22):
Such a good point and I talk about it in
the book Authenticity.
So this is the difference whenyou do it because you have to or
the HR tells you or because aconsultant told you, versus it
comes from your heart and that'sa real value.
(45:42):
It comes from why you do thatbusiness.
Value, it comes from why you dothat business.
So that's the difference.
And at the end of each chapterI ended it with practical advice
for leaders to follow.
One of them that I was like Ican't repeat, I can't say
authenticity again, but this isso important.
So how do you establish that?
You have to ask yourself andthat was the second principle
(46:06):
about identifying your valuesand what matters to you.
This is so important for you tobe authentic and to say what
matters to me as a business,where am I failing short?
What can I do better?
And doing things.
And sometimes to say you know,I'm not sure if this is going to
(46:26):
work and I don't know if thisis the right path for me, but I
would like to try this approach.
And when you come from thatplace of authenticity, the
result is different.
Anne McGinty (46:39):
Yeah, that's.
That is.
What I was wondering is just,and it is, you're right, it's
authenticity, it's realcompassion for others.
Yes, so just to start wrappingup here, cause I know we're up
against the clock, what advicewould you give to a young person
(47:00):
right now, someone growing upwith limited means, who aspires
to start their own business?
What advice would you give them?
Neri Karra Sillaman (47:06):
Trust your crazy idea.
It's written also on the deskof Noubara Feyyan, the founder
of Moderna, who comes from anArmenian-Lebanese family.
He immigrated to the US when hewas a child.
My advice will be trust yourvision, trust your crazy idea,
because I know it worked for me.
It worked for millions ofothers, and it may sound
(47:30):
unattainable at the time when Istood at the border and I had
the idea I want to get that idea.
I had the vision and I made adecision I need to get a good
education.
That really was my North Star.
That pulled me through verychallenging situations, from
(47:51):
being bullied at school to notfeeling good enough about myself
.
I knew my destination was thatmythical education and I did
reach it, which I did end upgoing to my dream school, which
was doing a PhD at Cambridge,and I feel incredibly fortunate.
(48:11):
But I also faced many failuresin that journey.
I failed to get into theTurkish university.
I did fail exams too.
It's not like I had thisperfect path that led me to that
vision.
No, but I trusted my crazy ideaand eventually I trusted that
(48:34):
we are going to have asuccessful business.
So trust your crazy idea.
You may have detours and thingsmay happen.
That can look like failure andrejection and you will have many
doors slam at your face butknow where you are going and
that you are going to get there.
Anne McGinty (48:55):
That vision, to see where you want to go and to
see it happening.
It's so important.
I believe it really works aswell.
So, just as a final questionhere and I imagine that you have
a lot of life wisdom to give sowhat life wisdom would you give
to anyone who is entering orgraduating from college right
(49:16):
now?
Neri Karra Sillaman (49:17):
Well, I just spoke at my alma mater at
University of Miami and I thinkI gave them a similar advice
that to trust, because in theend, you are going to get there.
You are going to get there.
Anne McGinty (49:38):
Neri, this has been such an inspiring
conversation.
I admire your story so much.
I believe you are aninspiration for anybody who is
going to listen and I reallyappreciate you sharing
vulnerably parts of your storywhich are just.
They're really incredible.
Neri Karra Sillaman (49:57):
So thank you talking to you and before we
even started our conversation.
I know you have such acompassionate heart, and because
of your parents' background aswell.
Yeah, I know you understood meand I really appreciate being
(50:20):
here.
Anne McGinty (50:21):
Well, and, as I had mentioned to you before, we
jumped on just reading elementsof your book and and really
feeling your story.
It was upwelling these emotionsin me that I feel there is no,
there's no one single Englishword to describe.
But it is that awe for thejourney, it's the pride, it is
(50:41):
the sort of amazement, butthere's also an element of pain
in the heart at the same time,just because of how difficult it
really was.
But then I wish I could put itinto one word, you know, but
that that joy, that joy that youfeel when you wrap it all up
and you reflect back on it andjust think, well, wow, I mean in
(51:03):
my circumstance, I think if myparents could do it, anybody can
do it.
And in listening to your story,I think the same thing.
If you could do it, anybody cando it.
And in listening to your story,I think the same thing, If you
could do that.
Well, that means that anybodycould do that, Exactly.
Neri Karra Sillaman (51:13):
And this is so important to have
representation, to have anexample and I'm not saying like
I am the example, but I hadinspiration.
I had examples myself that Ifollowed and gave me courage and
trust and faith that I can doit.
And it's very funny, maybe, butI listened to Oprah.
(51:35):
When I came to United Statesfor the first time, I discovered
Oprah.
I thought she was incrediblyinspirational.
After school, every day, Iwould watch her show and think
to myself wow, she has such adifficult childhood, difficult
life story, but she made it andthat gave me incredible
inspiration.
(51:55):
And when people ask me todaywho is your role model, it's
Oprah.
I don't want to become Oprah, Icannot be, I'm not going to be,
you know, have a TV show and soon.
But she gave me inspiration andthis is very important to have
inspiration to have other rolemodels, others who help you
(52:16):
trust in your crazy idea.
That's right.
Anne McGinty (52:19):
I'm very grateful to have met you and I hope you
stay in touch.
I'm excited to support you andthe launch of your book.
Everybody who's listening init's called Pioneers.
The Eight Principles ofBusiness Longevity from
Immigrant Entrepreneurs.
Thank you, neri, thank you.
Today's key takeaways Reframehardship, for example.
(52:45):
Even in the most difficultcircumstances, there is often a
silver lining.
Being forced to leave home andgrow up overnight gave Neri a
heightened compassion forother's struggles.
So pain can expand your empathy.
When you're in survival mode,no job is too small.
(53:07):
Every opportunity becomes astepping stone.
Humility and hustle can coexist.
In the chaos of modern life.
We forget how rich we truly are.
Clean water, a warm bed, asingle pair of jeans these are
(53:27):
luxuries to many.
Gratitude can ground you andshift your entire perspective.
Recognize and act on luck.
Sometimes the payoff won't comeimmediately, but stay open,
alert and ready to take action.
Be curious when you're in newenvironments.
That one idea, product or habityou observe might be your next
(53:53):
breakthrough back home.
Building bridges betweencultures can spark new business
ideas.
So expose yourself to newplaces and observe the
differences around you.
The differences around you.
(54:13):
Focus on positivity, meaningacknowledge and celebrate all of
the small wins in your journey.
They build confidence andmomentum.
In many immigrant journeys,everyone contributes.
When you leave everythingbehind, you learn how to build
relationships and community fromscratch.
You also learn to rely on or bethe pillar for others.
(54:35):
When you're surrounded bypeople working toward a shared
vision, resilience becomescollective.
So find, nurture and lean intoyour community.
As Neri's grandfather says, fryin your own oil.
This means resourcefulness isborn when you stop waiting for
(54:59):
external solutions.
Look within.
What do you already have thatno one can take away from you?
Build with that.
The best businesses are rootedin generosity.
Ask what can I contribute?
How can I create value?
(55:20):
Lasting companies care deeplyabout people, customers,
employees and communities.
Raising money prematurely candilute your creativity.
Constraints, however, canfoster clarity.
So build lean, test often andresist the urge to raise capital
(55:42):
too soon when your product orservice isn't landing.
Don't panic.
Get curious.
What needs to change?
What feedback might you beresisting?
While some immigrants startbusinesses out of necessity,
that's only part of the story.
(56:03):
In fact, immigrants are morelikely to create companies that
last.
46% of Fortune 500 companieswere founded by immigrants or
their children.
Think Google, moderna,nordstrom, intel.
Immigrants are not victims,they are visionaries.
(56:26):
Redefine rejection in business.
No is not the end.
It's often the start of abetter idea, a clearer pitch or
a different path.
Rejection is simply redirection.
Look at ways you might be ableto turn waste into wealth.
Neri built her luxury brandusing discarded leather from
(56:49):
high-end manufacturers.
Innovation often comes fromreimagining what others overlook
.
Is there a byproduct or wastedresource that could spark a
business idea for you?
Lead from a place ofauthenticity.
For you, lead from a place ofauthenticity.
(57:12):
There is a big differencebetween I'm doing this because I
should versus I'm doing thisbecause I want to.
When your motivation is rootedin purpose, everything changes.
So ask yourself what matters tome?
What can I do better?
And, lastly to me, what can Ido better?
(57:34):
And lastly, trust your crazyidea.
Every bold vision looks riskyat first.
Doors will slam and people willdoubt you, but if your idea
comes from conviction andclarity, keep going.
Trust your crazy idea.
That's it for today.
I release episodes once a week,so come back and check it out.
Have a great day.
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