This episode features an inspiring conversation with Olivier Onghena-t Hooft, an entrepreneur and author who believes in the power of noble purpose to drive careers and organizations toward meaningful impact. Through stories of his diverse career—from diplomacy to corporate leadership and a life-altering kidnapping—Olivier articulates the importance of developing a coherent life purpose.
• Discover Olivier's multi-faceted career and how each role shaped his worldview
• Hear about his harrowing experience of being kidnapped and its transformative effects
• Understand the concept of noble purpose and why it matters in today’s work environment
• Learn about Olivier's methodology for helping organizations align their purpose with their strategy
• Explore the significance of taking time for personal reflection and the impact of sabbaticals
• Reflections on the essence of caring leadership and the idea of ‘lovenship’
• Olivier shares insights on creating meaningful change and inspiring impact at various levels
If you're seeking to ignite your career with purpose, don't miss the thoughtful insights shared in this episode.
Follow Olivier:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivieronghena/
GINPI website: https://ginpi.eu/
Book: https://www.olivieronghena.com/noble-purpose/book-noble-purpose/
Personal website: https://www.olivieronghena.com/
-------------------------------------------
Liked this episode? A few things:
1. Share the podcast with three of your closest friends! And please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify here (tap on the three-dot menu under the cover art of the podcast) , as it would mean a lot to me and hopefully help others discover it.
2. You will love my emails called Charge-Up! They're no fluff no spam, where I share my favourite career insights from movies, TV shows, news and my own personal experiences, that I don't share anywhere else. Make sure you sign up here!
https://www.superchargeyourself.com/newsletter
3. Come hang out with me LIVE on LinkedIn and Youtube every Friday at 2 pm CET where I answer your questions and often bring in fab guests:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonalbahl/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/SuperChargeYourself
4. Share your favourite takeaways and tag me on your Instagram and LinkedIn.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonal (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to the how I Got Hired podcast.
I'm your host, sonal Behal,former HR director, founder of
Supercharge and corporatesurvivor of an epic career
roller coaster that started outin India, zipped through South
America and landed in Europe,and it's been such a wild ride
navigating visa, sponsorships,layoffs, recessions, all while
(00:26):
working in Spanish and French,which I learned on the fly
somehow, raising two kidssomehow, and sometimes just
trying to remember where Iparked my car.
Now, as a career strategist, Ibelieve a fulfilling career
isn't just for those with IvyLeague degrees or fancy
connections.
(00:46):
No, it's a right we all deserve.
That's why I'm here to bringyou top tier career advice
through coaching courses andthis very podcast where we meet
ordinary people like you and mewho share extraordinary stories
of career success, to prove thatif they can do it, you can do
(01:08):
it too.
So buckle up and get ready toget supercharged.
Hey, welcome back, welcome back.
As you can see from this title,this episode is interesting.
It's different.
I'd like to think every episodeis interesting and different
because I choose my guests superduper carefully, as you
probably know.
And today, why am I saying it'sdifferent?
(01:30):
Okay, so my guest today is anentrepreneur, investor, author,
philanthropist, and last time Ichecked he has founded six
organizations.
So everything he does iscentered around this one word
meaning, giving meaning, okay,and we are going to talk with
(01:52):
Olivier Olivier, I am laughingbecause I checked before, we
pressed record and I'm screwingit up again.
Olivier Onkhinatov we're goingto talk about his career, how he
got to this point with allthese fancy titles.
Yes, we will talk about allthis good stuff, but we will go
deeper and we will talk aboutpurpose, specifically noble
(02:14):
purpose, which has been thecentral theme of Olivier's
career, particularly in these, Iwould say, the last decade and
a half Olivier's career,particularly in these, I would
say, the last decade and a half.
And Olivier's venture, ginpi.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
What is GINPI?
What does it stand for?
It's an acronym.
What he does is in his work.
(02:35):
He works with CEOs, businessowners, investors, political
leaders, including heads ofstate, to improve the condition
of humankind, society and theworld.
How does he do this?
Like?
Does this even make sense toyou?
And you're thinking, oh my gosh, this sounds really soft.
There's nothing soft about this.
We will get into the detailsand, in addition, without
forgetting this, olivier'sjourney has had its fair share
(03:00):
of drama, success setbacks,including being at the helm of
one of Belgium's top telecomcompanies, as well as being
kidnapped a long time ago, beingkidnapped by FARC.
If you don't know what FARC is,it used to be the Revolutionary
People's Army in Colombia backin the day, and it's not that
(03:21):
they're entirely disappeared,but there is a story here.
And how did all theseexperiences, experiences, shape
who Olivier is today?
Olivier, such an honor.
Welcome to the show thank youso much.
Olivier (03:36):
It's an incredible pleasure to be here same same
pleasure.
Sonal (03:41):
Olivier, we're gonna get started because I know that you
and I have worked hard behindthe scenes to get this recording
.
We've been trying for a fewmonths, and so, without further
ado, I'm going to jump right inhere we are, and I'm going to
jump right in.
So let's talk about your career.
Olivier (03:58):
I want to talk about it in two parts, before you
started, jinbi which is forthose who don't know Global
Institution and Noble PurposeInstitute right.
Global Inspiration and NoblePurpose Institute Inspiration.
I knew I messed that up.
Global Inspiration.
Sonal (04:14):
Global Inspiration and Noble Purpose Institute, thank
you.
Before you started Jinbi andafter.
So at the beginning, you workedat all kinds of different
places.
You were at the EuropeanCommission, based in Brussels,
strasbourg and New York, thenyou had your own small venture,
and then you were at Belkacom,which is now known as Proximus,
(04:34):
which is one of the largest,most respected companies here in
Belgium, as well as Ormit,among others.
So let's talk about this part,because I know I'm talking about
it as if it's a monolith, butit must have been a very diverse
experience for you.
Yes, is there any?
Is there any particular role,olivier, that you want to single
out that had a profound impacton your career?
(04:59):
And knowing that this show iscalled how I got hired, we like
we like to know thebehind-the-scenes stuff here.
How did you get that role?
Tell us about that.
Olivier (05:08):
Yes, in sake of the time, I'll try to be doing this
in a summarized way, becausethere are so many things to
share.
I'm happy to be here and I hopethis is going to be interesting
and inspiring for your audience.
(05:29):
So when I was 16, I decidedthat I wanted to be an
ambassador.
And why did I decide that Iwanted to be an ambassador?
Because at my parents andgrandparents' place, we used to
live, like in this.
It's a big house where I livedwith my brothers, my parents and
my grandparents, which was aninteresting, um, interesting
thing, and so often the guestscoming to to meet my parents and
(05:52):
grandparents were people fromall kinds of backgrounds
scholars, cultures and I foundit incredibly exciting to see
all these different people.
Um, and then I I did studiesthat led me to going into a
multilateral diplomacy, which iswhere I started my career, and
I had the incredible opportunityto start working in the very
(06:16):
close environment of the formerpresident of the European
Commission, which is one of theinstitutions of the European
Union under or at a time led byJacques Delors, which was an
absolute reference the lateJacques Delors he died recently
and what I figured out whilebeing there, I mean I have.
I can tell stories that youprobably not believe.
(06:39):
So it was such an exciting timeand at the same time I realized
that this was such a hugemachinery we're talking 90s,
very administrative that I feltthat this was not what I wanted.
So I said this is not the kindof life I want to have.
I had this dream about what Ihad seen as a child and what I
(07:03):
thought diplomacy was about.
But then I saw the reality andthat was absolutely not my thing
.
I can, for example, give as anexample this I was asked by the
head of mission we didn't callour head of the delegation to
(07:24):
the United Nations, so theEuropean Union delegation to the
United Nations.
We didn't call her ambassador,we called her head of mission.
So the head of mission asked meto coordinate a meeting with all
the heads of the differentcountries so the ambassadors of
the different countries and wewere having conversations, or
they were having conversations,about where to put a comma
(07:46):
between words in some phrases,and I thought I was like in a
total.
I come from a surreal, ofsurrealist country, uh, which is
belgium.
So I thought this was like themost surreal thing I had ever
seen and I was like notunderstanding that we would
spend literally minutes,probably even more, on like
where are we going to put thecomma between the words?
Because the way how we wouldinterpret long story short.
(08:08):
I decided after some time toleave because I wanted to do
something more action orientedand I'm not saying, by the way,
that in the european union thereis no action but not the action
that I wanted to have and thatis how I ended up in my first
business venture.
Sonal (08:25):
Oh my gosh, wow, before we talk about your business
venture, but I want to justreflect a few things that you
shared.
It's making me laugh.
The comma so you mentioned thiswas a little bit unusual.
Living with your grandparents Ilove that.
It's actually very common in myculture for multiple families
(08:45):
to live together.
I've lived with my grandparents, including my maternal as well
as my paternal grandparents, andit's one thing that I regret
that my kids don't have today,because they only see them once
or twice a year when we go backto india.
Um, what a, what a gift, what agift that must have been great.
and then the second thing I it'sso interesting, I've had other
guests say this Like I've alwayswanted to do X, y, z, and then
(09:09):
I got there and I said, oh mygosh.
So there is an expression becareful what you wish for,
because when you get it itclarifies what you don't want
sometimes.
And sometimes it comes in wavesto you that, hey, I don't know
what I'm doing here.
Sometimes it can come like alike a bang right, like a brick
(09:30):
hitting your head.
And maybe for you that triggerwas the comma argument, because
you're like what is going on?
There's so many bigger fish tofry and we're talking about this
.
So this is important for ourdear listener.
It may have been hitting you inwaves, it may be hitting you
like a brick when you'requestioning your very presence
(09:52):
in your current environment.
And you said I was looking fora little bit more action.
And you know to be fair, comma.
When I think of action, I don'tthink of comma, I think of
exclamation point, I think ofquestion marks.
If we're going to stick to the,if we're going to stick to the
punctuation ideology, yes, so.
Olivier (10:09):
So what I think is I will speak later um when we go
further in my journey, because Ithink that is really
interesting for the listeners toreflect about impact what is
the kind of impact you want tohave?
And without me being veryconscious at the time because I
was still young, the start of mycareer, I was what?
25, 20-something.
So for me I realized throughoutthat impact is really important
(10:33):
and I was thinking of what, allthe things that were happening
at the time.
There was the Iraq invasion inKuwait.
There was the liberation of theit was just after the fall of
the Berlin Wall, so the formerUSSR was falling apart.
The Baltic states becameindependent and became members
(10:53):
of the United Nations.
There was a lot of stressalready in Palestine, israel,
with the Palestine LiberationOrganization, plo.
So incredibly interesting times.
And I was not seeing how thatreflected.
Sonal (11:08):
I mean, we were talking about there, the ambassadors
were talking about these matters, but it was focused on the
comma and I sort of like didn'tsee the relevance to what- I
understand, and I think thatsays something about you,
olivier, because a person who'ssensitive and caring, because
this is back in the day when wedidn't have computers and phones
(11:29):
in our face all the time, wedidn't have social media and you
were still aware of thegeopolitical around you.
Right, this shows empathy, thisshows, I think, maturity and
words like impact.
I don't know a lot of maybetoday a lot of 20-somethings
think about it, but I didn't.
I don't know a lot of maybetoday, a lot of 20 somethings
think about it, but I didn't.
Olivier (11:47):
Back then, it was more about go out there graduate, get
a job, be useful to society asopposed to.
I think I think it's alsocommon sense.
So no, it's, I really thinkit's also common sense.
I mean, how?
Anyway, I think it was moreabout common sense than about
empathy and and about having abig vision.
I think it was really moreabout common sense.
And how much common sense do wehave in our life?
Right?
Sonal (12:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, as they say, common senseis not common practice.
So then, what made you say I'mgoing to?
So this is the first of yourseveral ventures that you
started and, like you said, I'minexperienced, I didn't quite
know what was going on, what Iwant, but here you are and you
started your first venture.
Olivier (12:26):
What brought that?
I think it was purelyopportunistic.
It was like really purelyopportunistic.
There was no big plan, therewas no big idea.
I was just going with the flow.
I thought like, well, this isnot working at the commission,
which was a bit of a deception,obviously, because you know, I
had this big idea and I thoughtthat, etc.
Etc.
Which I finally didn't proceedwith.
(12:49):
So I met this Dutchentrepreneur, we started talking
and we finally ended up doingbusiness together and I did that
for two years, which was reallyexciting because all of a
sudden I'm in a very differentenvironment.
Talking about doing that is verymuch doing.
(13:11):
We had a merchandising businessenterprises to boost their
products or boost theirreputation or boost the name
through all kinds of things thatwe would produce for them.
I mean the typicalmerchandising, what we call
(13:34):
below the line in the marketingterms.
And then after a year and ahalf or more or less, I realized
that it was a difficult thingto proceed because my business
partner brought in hisfather-in-law and brought in his
(13:54):
spouse and I had accepted that.
But then all of a sudden thedynamics shifted.
Where we were 50-50 owners,there was all the time the
presence of the two others andthat energetically really
created a very differentatmosphere and I was kind of
(14:28):
like fight the energy.
So I decided to sell my 50% toan external shareholder who
bought my 50% and I went back toBrussels to brussels, right,
(14:49):
right, and and and.
Sonal (14:50):
What proceeded next?
Um, olivier, is your uh large,you know long um illustrious
corporate career in belgium,where you did a lot of cool
stuff, like I said, um atbelgacom, which is now called
proximus, and um ormit, thetalent agency, right, so yeah um
.
Olivier (15:01):
So, after after the, so interesting and I and I really
think that this is of value forfor the people listening is is I
had, again, not not a real planand um, I had my degrees.
Um, I had my um first um workexperiences, but there I was
(15:25):
without a plan and then I gotcalled um by uh Elhacom Proximus
.
Now, um, they were looking forum key account managers and I
thought that is cool and I haddiscovered that I'm quite good
in in you know, um promoting idsand promoting um products.
(15:49):
So, long story short, I startedworking with uh belhacom in a
role as a key account managerwas very successful.
After six months, they asked methe typical thing that then
they ask they.
Working with Belhacom in a roleas a key account manager was
very successful.
After six months, they asked methe typical thing that then
they ask.
They asked me to become amanager.
So I became the head ofcustomer service, which was an
incredibly interestingexperience.
We started with four people,ended up with about 35, built a
(16:14):
team.
I learned to manage a team ofwhich I was not the owner,
because I was definitely,obviously not the owner of that,
that enterprise andinterestingly, is I the way how
I was um doing that was bybringing sense to why and I did
(16:34):
this in a very unconscious wayactually, because now it all
seems like very organized, asthat is very much what I'm doing
every day but I did it in a waythat was very organic.
And I'll give an example in myrole as head of customer
relations, I was reporting tothe executive committee because
we obviously discovered a lot ofthings that were not working
(16:55):
well and they found it veryinteresting rightly so to to
learn what was going wrong.
So I would come with a reportand tell them you know, in
production, in logistics, inmarketing, in sales, etc.
Etc.
And, um, there was aconversation that the um at that
time, uh, chief executive umwanted to have with me and he
(17:16):
said you have to fire thatperson.
And I said said you have tofire that person?
And I said why do I have tofire that person in my team?
He said because we have had acomplaint from a customer and
that customer says that he istotally not respecting his
requirements.
And I said to the CEO.
I said but do you know whatthis is about?
Because I knew the case.
So that was a customer that wasactually trying to get a lot of
(17:37):
money from a so-called bigissue that he had and it was
actually a minor thing.
But the guy was just blowing itbecause he thought such a huge
organization at the timeremember we were a 40 000, um, a
40 000 person enterprise and Ihad said to one of my team
members I I said we're not goingto go there, we're not going to
(17:58):
accept to pay that money tocompensate the customer.
So the CEO said to me you haveto fire him.
And I said, if you insist tofire him, then you will, at the
same time, also fire me, becausethat's not how I treat people
and that's not how I will deal.
And he was so surprised that Idared to say that to him.
(18:23):
I was obviously much junior,but this has created.
And then I went back to my teamand I said this is what happened
.
So, guys, we have an importantrole again, impact again.
Why are we here?
What are we doing?
That's it.
So we are not going to let ourcustomers down down, but at the
same time, we're not going tolet our customers down but at
the same time, we're not goingto let our customers do whatever
with our organization which werepresent.
And that became the story in myteam first and then outside of
(18:45):
the team.
That people said, wow, this isamazing the way how they do
business there in that team andI have really learned that that
is really important.
And then I got other roles.
I became executive director ofa large division with about
2,000 people and when Iannounced that I was going to go
there, people said, oh my God,you're going to the trash bin of
(19:06):
the organization because thatdivision had a very bad
reputation.
And I said how can people saythat a division with 2,000
people is the trash bin of theorganization?
And we had to do a massiverestructuring.
Huge increase in productivitywas required, which we achieved
after two years.
We did not fire anybody.
(19:27):
We had, I think, we let goabout a third of the people.
We did it in a very fluent,respectful way and the way how
we did it was by working withthe people and by showing them
how important it was.
By working with the people andby showing them how important it
was to create a future that ifwe would not do that maybe
everybody would stay there, butthen at the end nobody would be
able to stay, because it wouldjust be an unprofitable business
(19:48):
.
And and what I have learned fromthat is when you work with
people, when you lead people andI can tell you it was not an
easy piece.
I mean it now sounds all veryeasy and simple, but it has been
sometimes incredibly difficult.
I was 28, 29, leading adivision of about 2,000 people,
(20:10):
which obviously is not very Imean normal, so to say normal in
the sense of like.
I mean, I was very early inthat role, but I have learned
that working with people isreally important when it comes
to clarity, to explaining whywe're doing what we're doing.
Again, that impact, thatmeaning it started developing
(20:33):
there.
And when people trust you,people believe you, you can do
amazing things.
And that is really what wasvery important for me to create
a trust oh my gosh, yes I, I I'mtaking so much away from this.
Sonal (20:45):
Um, olivier, I think, uh, you leading by example hasn't
happened because you started thenoble purpose institute, it's,
the seeds have been planted along time ago.
Um, to take the senior person'sword as this is it, this is set
(21:06):
in stone.
But to go against it, right,that takes courage, because so
many people would have said inyour place, I have to fire the
guy, I better fire him.
And there's no way I'm gonna tosay if you fire him, you're
going to fire me, because peopleof principles, you know, like
the good guy, the nice guyalways finishes last.
I hate that.
That's not true.
Right, you spoke up and you gotpromoted.
(21:27):
You know, later on you did evenbetter, you did well.
But for people to hear that youstood up for that person and
you said I'm not going to do thewrong thing, because if you're
going to make me do the wrongthing, I'm out.
They the respect that comesfrom that.
They know how hard it is,because if you're done, you're
done.
And a lot of us are coming fromfear, right, a lot of us are
(21:49):
coming from no, keep your job,put your head down, and I think
that the meaning and the purposeyou're talking about is so much
needed.
I know you're talking about the90s, but this is so much needed
.
20, 30 years today, like todaywith greedy, capitalist
companies are like fire the guy,fire these people.
2000 member department, callingthem a garbage bin, which means
(22:14):
this is how you think of people.
Olivier (22:16):
Literally, you're thinking of them as disposable
yes and that is for yeah, goahead unfortunately, and it is
unfortunately what happens toooften, you know.
So what I, what I observe, takeaway.
We will get later to what we doat GIMP.
But I have learned through thatexperience that if you want to
(22:41):
change something, you have toshow the example.
And what I often observe inorganizations, when we are being
asked to transform theirorganizational culture, to
transform in a certain way theirDNA, or to re-tap into the DNA
and by that build the rightculture, they want to change a
lot, they being the executivecommittee, the CEO, the
(23:02):
shareholders.
Yes, it's a change, but then wehave that problem.
I'll give a very clear example.
But then we have that problemwith that chief commercial.
Or we have a bit of an issuewith that CFO, but they bring in
so much money or they know howto run the company, so this
would be a huge problem if wewould fire them.
(23:24):
So then you create thatdisconnect On the one hand, you
want to transform and youbelieve that these leaders have
to show the example, and, on theother hand but you know what
we're going to keep them inplace, even if they behave in a
way that is unacceptable, oreven if they do not respect the
values, or even if they wouldsay things that shocks people,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,and then I say so we love
(23:44):
culture, we love culture, but welove money more.
That's what they're saying,exactly yes.
Or, as you say, not having thecourage to take a difficult call
.
Let me give you an example,without naming the enterprise.
The client we were working fora family-owned pharmaceutical
(24:06):
company, and the CEO was totallywith us wanted to transform,
said help us bring in a noblepurpose, connect that to the
right culture, let's make aperformance organization, et
cetera, et cetera.
So we did that and then webumped into the.
But the problem is that we havean issue with the CFO and the
CFO is super well connected withthe financial markets and the
(24:28):
CFO is the one who knows all thedetails about the business and
there is a risk that I saidlisten to the CEO.
I said to the ceo.
I said to do the ceo.
I said if, if, if, you reallywant to take this serious, you
have to show that you're willingto go there, whatever the cost,
because the, the gain thatyou're going to get is so much
bigger than the price you payfor the cost of letting go of
(24:50):
the cfo, and that made him, uh,decide to let go of the
enterprise.
Sonal (24:58):
And no, it wasn't crazy, everything moved on.
No, because it wasn't his head,the sun shines the next day.
Olivier (25:04):
They stroked a deal, they agreed on things and
obviously they are professionals, so the CFO didn't start
badmouthing to the financialmarkets and what have you?
And things went very well andit has become a very successful
enterprise, despite the risk of.
Sonal (25:23):
I can give many examples of these, but that's I I can
imagine, because you are goinginside the belly of the beast,
olivier, and you're, you're,seeing the things that most
people, they look away, theylook away or they, you know,
they pretend they didn't see itor you know, they feign
ignorance.
But you're seeing it and you're,you're, you're, um, doing it,
but not coming from a place ofyes, we need you know the
(25:45):
classic consulting we need xnumber of people gone, remove
the fat, take out the trash, allthose dehumanizing ways you're
saying that's there's a there'sa reason you hired these people.
They're good people, we'regoing to work together.
Olivier (25:59):
Yes, and let me give an advice to the people listening
here the looking away is whattoo often we also do with
ourselves.
We look away from that.
What we should not look awayfrom, that, what we should not
(26:20):
look away from and if we reallywant to have a successful career
and successful does not onlymean making a lot of money, or I
would even say it is not aboutonly making lots of money, it is
about realizing yourself.
I think that is the mostimportant thing.
And so in my crazy journey,which seems totally um,
non-logic and and probably it isnon-logic there is one logic or
there is one red thread is thatI have more and more learned to
(26:45):
go into that.
What really makes me more ofwho I truly am.
So, by doing all thesedifferent things, I have learned
always from this idea ofbringing meaning, and that
bringing meaning obviously hasbeen super boosted by my
kidnapping and how I wasconfronted brutally with life
(27:06):
and that.
But that is the problem is thata lot of people look away.
They look away from themselves,they're disconnected, so they
do all kinds of things and atthe end of the day they burn out
, they get bored out, they arenot satisfied, they become
horrible leaders because they doall kinds of things and at the
end of the day, they burn out.
They get bored out.
Yeah, they are not satisfied.
They become horrible leadersbecause they're super frustrated
, and I think that is a hugeproblem in our current society.
(27:26):
So people don't look away.
Don't look away.
Look to yourself and see whatis really necessary for you.
How can you become a betterleader?
How can you become a betterinvestor?
How can you become a betterhead of state, a better CEO?
Yes, yes A better baker, abetter professor.
(27:49):
You, you know it is for allkind of roles yeah, which help
you to fulfill your purpose,absolutely so.
Sonal (27:55):
Speaking of which, um, olivia, let's talk about this,
because I know this was a whileago and I, you know, you and I
have chatted before, but I think, um, it's one of those, I think
, events that sometimes theyshape us right, there were a few
events that led you to leavelife as an employee in someone
else's company and just leave,right, and so you mentioned the
(28:17):
kidnapping.
Tell us a little bit about this, because, god forbid, anyone
like, I hope, the personlistening, I hope you never.
We never have to go throughthis, but, olivier, you did and
you made it out.
Thank goodness you did.
But we want to learn what thiswas like for you and how it
(28:38):
changed your outlook.
Olivier (28:42):
Obviously it was horrible.
Imagine getting shot in a carwhen the driver tries to escape
from the attackers.
It was physically a thing thatI wish nobody to have to
experience.
At the same time, it was a hugeum experience for me because
(29:07):
the the many weeks and monthssorry, can I?
Sonal (29:13):
I'm interrupting you, I apologize.
Take us back a little and tellus.
Tell us what was like, tell usthe context, uh, about.
Olivier (29:20):
What were you doing there, what happened, um, etc
okay, so I was um visiting my uhpartner, uh of the time, a life
partner, not business partnerum and was staying um with his
parents.
Um, and there was a friend umof the family, a gentleman, a
businessman that I didn't know,who was interested in the arts,
(29:42):
and I started at a time being uminterested in, in, in
contemporary and in the arts,and I started at a time being
interested in contemporary andin the modern art.
The gentleman learned that, Iguess from the father of my
partner, and he reached out tome and said I'm going to visit
the gallery, are you interested?
Okay, so I was there, actuallyon holidays in Colombia.
(30:04):
Long story short, we went tothe gallery and all the way back
um that gentleman, brian, hewas called um, he said let's go
for dinner, and it was on ourway in the center of bogota,
colombia, that um, we werekidnapped.
And why we were kidnapped?
Because the attackers thoughtthat um in the car were um the
(30:26):
father of my partner and hissecretary, because it was
obviously a blinded car, but itwas a car that my partner's
father had given us, with hisdriver, and so they tried to
kidnap my partner's father andthen ask ransom.
(30:48):
That is actually the context,but then it was not good for him
.
It was not my uh partner'sfather, but it was me and and
that um friend of the family, um, who were in the car.
So when the driver tried toescape from the attackers, they
started shooting at a car untilthey finally could block the car
(31:09):
, beat up the, almost beat todeath the.
The driver threw him over me.
I had already fainted because Igot three bullets in my body,
um and um, and then they took usaway and then, when they
realized after some time that wewere not interesting people
that is too bad for me and forBrian, or just very good is that
(31:34):
they were going to kill us.
And so this is an interestingthing, if you want to have a
suspense moment, one minute, isthey?
We were laying the tree next toeach other and I speak Spanish,
and there was this one guy,probably the gang leader.
There were six terrorists andone of the gang leaders said
liquidate them.
(31:54):
So there was this one guycoming to us charging his um,
his kalashnikov, looking at us,and I was looking at the guy.
At that time I was, I had wokenup from my coma.
I had woken up from my coma anda guy was coming to us and was
going to unload his bullets, andI closed my eyes, sort of like,
made myself little, very little, for as much as I could, and I
(32:18):
went away and I was in a placethat was amazing.
I was in a place of I mean, Ilearned afterwards that I was in
a place of near death which Ihad no idea that that existed.
Um, and it was an amazing place.
It was a place where I sawmillions of flowers, there was
peace, there was, uh, sun, and Isaw, from one of the corners of
(32:40):
that landscape, my like, kindof like a nymph coming, like
flying over the field verygently, and it was my mother,
which was really bizarre.
My mother, by the way, she'sstill alive, she's 87, um, and I
thought that I was in heaven.
So I thought that I was thatactually.
Um, so long story short.
They did not shoot us because,um, a woman which we have never
(33:02):
seen, um in the woods, silent,so it was past midnight, shouted
the police is coming, thepolice is coming.
We were in the woods, 30kilometers out of the city, so
there was no police, there wasnobody in that wood and these
people got afraid, so they fledwith their car and our car and
left us for yeah, well, forwhatever.
That is the story.
(33:22):
So in in the, in the recoveryphase because I had to learn to
walk again, because I wasparalyzed and what have you I
had a lot of time to think and Iwas thinking a lot about life
and how important is life for me?
And I was thinking, what if Iwould have died?
And now that I'm still alive,what can I do with my life?
(33:44):
And I decided at that momentthat I was going to do something
special with life and I wasgoing to try to let as many
people as possible takeadvantage of my experience so
that they would have not to gothrough kidnapping or anything
similar dramatic, but learn fromthis crazy guy who has been
kidnapped and who has a messageto share about meaning and
(34:09):
impact.
And so that is kind of likemaking the circle from doing all
kinds of things totallydisconnected, you could say, to
becoming more and more clearabout what I wanted to do with
my life and for life.
And that is how, how, fromhaving been leading for almost
10 years an amazing enterprisewhich was on it, um, I came to
(34:33):
decide, um, to take a sabbatical.
And I needed a sabbaticalbecause I had been working a lot
, I was successful, um, I made alot of money, but there was
somehow a way that I was notfeeling fulfilled.
And so I said now I have to takemyself serious because I have
picked all the boxes.
I experienced with diplomacy.
(34:53):
I have been an entrepreneur, Ihave been leading a large
division in a big corporation, Ihave been the ceo of of an
enterprise, a very successfulenterprise, with a great team
and what have you, by the way, Itried to do a management buyout
of the organization and finally, it didn't work out.
So I felt like now is the timefor me to really push the stop
(35:19):
button, or pause button ratherand really reconnect with my
experience from the kidnapping,which is the meaning of life I
want to give for the comingdecades.
And so, after that sabbaticalwhich is really, by the way, if
you people who are listening,you can take the time and you
(35:39):
have the opportunity to take asabbatical, do it, because it is
an amazing thing.
It is absolutely clarifying.
It helps you with your life,with your career, it helps you
with clarifying what isimportant Again, it is looking
fully inside.
It's looking fully at yourselfinstead of looking away.
Sonal (35:58):
Yes, what we were talking about before.
Olivier (36:01):
It's not looking away.
It's all the contrary.
I find it very uncomfortableBecause I was a bit from hero to
zero.
I mean I was sitting at homeand sort of like thinking like
what am I going to do tomorrow?
Because I had no job at all, Iwas not doing apart from some
investments that I had, but likethere was no role as such in a
(36:21):
function, and it was incredibly,incredibly enriching.
And that period, that deep divethat I did, that vision quest,
in a certain way, has allowed meto reconnect with all the
things that I had learned andwhat I believed when I was
(36:42):
recovering from my kidnappingwas so important, which was a
respectful life.
And so, long story short, aftermy sabbatical I decided that I
would do something on a globallevel that had sufficient impact
to help the target audiencesthat you mentioned that we work
with, to impact society so thatwe can come to a better
(37:05):
humankind and and to a betterworld, and not from a purely
philosophical perspective butfrom a impact perspective.
So that is more or less thejourney and the connection with
the the kidnapping to kidnappingthank you for sharing this.
Sonal (37:25):
Um, and I love that this made you rethink and, at the
same time, we don't need to gothrough something so
life-altering to do this, butsometimes the shake up is needed
, right, um, you know, just tostay here for a minute here,
olivier, you, you could havedone a few other things.
(37:45):
What made you specifically sayinspiration, noble purpose?
This is it.
You know, some people will sayenvironment, climate, animals,
refugees, this specifically,like someone listening today.
They're like I'm a little lost,kind of figured figuring out my
purpose.
What made you narrow it down?
Olivier (38:12):
I think, probably connecting with who I am, and I
think, when I was 16, as I toldyou, I decided to become an
ambassador.
And what does an ambassador do?
An ambassador represents acountry or an organization or um
, a group of nations, and I'm ina certain way, I'm an
(38:33):
ambassador.
I'm representing ideas, I'mrepresenting this concept of of,
of which impact do you, as ahuman being, want to have?
What kind of life do you wantto live?
How do you want to use peoplethat are working with you, for
you?
Um, in the best way and in thebest way.
That means in a way that thesepeople become better versions,
(38:55):
or the best versions ofthemselves, instead of
exploiting them or instead ofcrushing them.
You know the very neoliberal, Ithink, very sick way of of doing
business.
There is very different ways ofdoing business, and that is
what I figured out in mysabbatical.
I said you can create anincredible economy, a very
powerful economy.
You can create a very powerfulpolitical system where there is
(39:21):
more harmony, where there ismore for everybody to win
instead of only for a smallgroup, whether that is the poor
or the rich, whether that is theprivileged or the
underprivileged, whether I mean.
You know, these things come alltogether in, in, in the way how
I look at things, um and so thethe idea of being an ambassador
(39:44):
is really something that I feel, although I don't call myself
an ambassador, but I amrepresenting that idea and I
call people very much like whatan ambassador would do.
I call people, the CEOs, thebusiness leaders, the political
leaders that we work with aroundthe globe, I call them on their
responsibility and their senseof impact and their sense of
impact.
Let me give you an example.
(40:05):
When we meet, when we aretalking with a potential new
client, I will have aconversation or two with the
president or the CEO, and thenthe first question I will ask is
how successful do you think youare?
And that is a very interestingquestion to ask, because what
(40:26):
are they going to say?
What are the parameters thatmake people decide how
successful I am?
And so most of the people willsay well, you know, we are very
successful because we havetripled our top line, or we have
doubled our bottom line line,or we have an ebida of so much,
(40:47):
or we have a huge uh success inthat market that we have opened
up two years ago.
And then I asked them verybrutally but and very
confrontingly.
I asked them and at whatcollateral damage?
And that is a question thatpeople are not expecting.
So they look at me and they'rekind of like puzzled and these
people are not used.
So they look at me and they'rekind of like puzzled and these
people are not used to bepuzzled, right.
Sonal (41:10):
But they are puzzled or confronted.
Olivier (41:12):
Exactly, and that is a moment when we start having true
conversations.
So, your success, my success,their success at what price do
we get there?
And I have learned that whenthey were telling me are you
crazy to go and lead thatorganization?
It's the garbage bin of theenterprise, I said that is not a
(41:34):
garbage bin.
There is 2000 people workingthere.
And when I remember the greatthings that we could do, despite
the fact that it was a complexdepartment or a complex division
, you can do a lot of thingswith people and I think that is
something that I have learnedthroughout my career, with all
the, the, the mistakes that Imade and with all the, the.
(41:57):
Putting things in perspective,obviously, is that when you have
that approach, you can pushpeople to go really very far and
people will really step overtheir comfort, will step out of
their comfort zone, people willreally confront their, their
fears, and I think that is whatwe need to do yeah, yeah step
(42:17):
out of our comfort zone and andlearn to deal with our fears
exactly, exactly.
Sonal (42:22):
So tell us.
I know you've written a wholebook on this.
Um, olivier, it's a it's not afair question to ask.
But how do this Like, how doyou work when you say improve
humankind, society, world?
Give us like the one two minutesnapshot when you work with a
client and people are like headsof state, ceos, business owners
(42:42):
.
So this is a part two.
Why are they?
What are they?
Why are they hiring you?
Why are they worried?
What is on their mind?
Olivier (42:50):
oh, there are so many um, different reasons, but, um,
some people hire us because ofthe sense of responsibility, so
they know that they want to dothings differently and that they
need to do things differently,but they don't know how to do it
.
Some people, um, are verysuccessful and we have had cases
of clients, very well-knownenterprises, that were very
successful, but the ceos or thepresidents were afraid that by
(43:14):
being too successful, that theorganization would become like
fat, you know, like a fat pig,and they would just sort of like
sit and eat more but not reallymove a lot moving, being
thinking of of innovative ideas,being creative, being ready for
competition, because we are amore and more globalized world,
so competition is easier in acertain way.
Others are organizations thatare in big problems and they
(43:36):
need to transform, but then theyneed to transform what it's,
not because the CEO declareswe're going to transform, that
things are going to happen.
So you need to work with thepeople.
Sonal (43:45):
So often they need to work with people.
Olivier (43:52):
How do you help them transform?
So we help we.
We have a methodology which isa very simple thing and I'm
happy to share it to theaudience.
It's a very simple thing.
We always will make a coherencebetween four what I believe the
four important elements, and wecall that the houses of noble
purpose, and that can be for anngo, that can be for an NGO,
that can be for a for-profit,that can be for a political
party.
It works for all kinds ofsystems, for all kinds of
organizations.
We need to find harmony betweenthe noble purpose, which I
(44:15):
believe is the first thing toclarify.
Why are we doing what we'redoing?
Between the leadership and wedon't speak about leadership, we
speak about lovenship.
It is a loving and caringleadership.
Don't call about, we don'tspeak about leadership.
We speak about love and ship.
It is a loving and caringleadership and it's the capacity
of being a loving and caringleader.
Um, caring in the sense of howcan I help my people to become
the best versions of themselves?
(44:35):
We're not talking love like youwould have with your partner,
like you would have withchildren.
That's not that kind of love.
It's a love of development.
How can we develop our peoplelove and ship.
The third capacity or the thirdelement is is the third capacity
or the third element is is theorganizational culture, with the
values, the guiding principles,the foundation of your
organization, and then it is thestrategy.
So how is the strategy going tosupport the noble purpose?
(44:59):
Noble purpose is like thelong-term idea that is not going
to change every three or fiveyears.
It is.
It's.
It's really why you are in inbusiness or why you as a human
being exist.
I mean, it's exactly the samefor an individual.
And then we try to.
We work with these fourelements, even if we are being
asked at entry point for one ofthe four Can you help us with
(45:22):
aligning the strategy?
Can you help us to transformthe culture?
Can you work around ourleadership or can you do
something about our noblepurpose?
And then we start working withthese four elements in subtle
ways.
That's how we help theseorganizations or these people
transform.
And it works on an individuallevel.
It works on a collective levelcollective being political party
(45:43):
or being an executive team oran intact team or a family
office or a board of directors,and then we have the
organizational level.
Sonal (45:52):
It works, thank you.
It works full stop, which iswhy people continue to work with
you.
Olivier (45:59):
And it's huge because you said in the beginning it's
not something like fluffy,something philosophical.
We use a lot of philosophy andhere again I mean I like to, to,
to share ideas and I like toshare um uh concepts, but at the
end of the day I mean we aregoing full swing into yes, yes,
(46:22):
and we're deep diving, deep dive, absolutely deep diving, and
the impact sonalal is huge, yeahyeah.
It's really huge because we workon the DNA of an organization.
We work with the people, wework with the leadership, we
work with the owners or theleaders or the people behind who
have created so, the investorsor the project creators.
(46:46):
So we work on multiple levelswith with these people but, the
overarching thing is yeah, whichimpact do we want to have?
And is that impact brutal?
Is that impact subtle?
Is that impact local?
Is that impact global?
Is that impact respectful?
Is that impact destructive?
Right, yeah, that is a questionthat we help them to our
(47:08):
resolve and, and they say right,the fish rots at the head.
Sonal (47:12):
So you have to start at the head, at the leadership.
I love that you call it.
Love, ship, um and and love.
When I hear love, I think ofcaring.
I'm not using you, it's notpure pure.
Yes, it's a transaction.
Yes, we have to be profitable,but it doesn't have to be at the
expense of someone's well-being, right, yes, and there's a
bigger purpose that you're doingthis so amazing.
(47:32):
I have this last question Iwant to ask you when you look
back these last 30 odd years outof here, is there a standout
moment maybe the one you sharedthat supercharged your career,
your, your purpose and helpedyou to move closer to your
current success?
Olivier (47:52):
um, I think each of these experiences and I know
this, this, this is maybe a notthe kind of answer you're
looking for, but each of theseexperiences has given me a huge
sorry for my French kick in theass, or a really big boost,
because I had to reinvent myselfeach time and, at the same time
(48:17):
, I have been super guided bymentors, by people who gave me
ideas, who gave me advice, bymentors, by people who gave me
ideas, who gave me advice.
But I think the most importantin my career has been the
sabbatical, having decided todare to stop literally almost
(48:42):
from day one to day two and takethe time to to reinvent myself
and to really be sure that I'mconnected with who I truly am.
So I think that is probably forme, the most.
Sonal (48:56):
If I have to put them on a category of, or hierarchy of,
importance, that's probably themoment in my career that has
been the most relevant to meyeah, thank you so much for
sharing this and I think that,um, if anyone wants to learn
more about, uh, olivier and thenodo purpose institute,
definitely check out the website.
It's gimp, g-i-n-p-i dot org.
(49:19):
Um.
Also, olivier, I'm gonna linkyour your linkedin profile in
the show notes.
People can learn more about you.
You've written a book on this.
I think we need this today morethan ever.
I think the need has never beengreater.
So, um, I really, reallyappreciate you giving us the
time today, um, and sharing withyour heart and um.
(49:40):
I I wish you continued successwith um, with jimpy, with
everything you're doing andbeyond thanks a lot for having
me.
Olivier (49:48):
So now there is more things coming up, more books
coming up, and and I find thisvery interesting, very pleasant
and an honor of having been herewith you.
Sonal (49:58):
So thank you for that hey , you made it to the end and
that means a lot to me becauseyou could have been listening to
a bajillion other things, sothis likely means you enjoyed
the episode.
So I recommend that you hitfollow on the app you were
listening this podcast on andshare it with a friend who could
use some career inspiration.
(50:20):
Come on, sharing is caring,right.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today and catch you
next time on how I Got Hired.
Hey there, welcome to the how I Got Hired podcast.
I'm your host, sonal Behal,former HR director, founder of
Supercharge and corporatesurvivor of an epic career
roller coaster that started outin India, zipped through South
America and landed in Europe,and it's been such a wild ride
navigating visa, sponsorships,layoffs, recessions, all while
(00:26):
working in Spanish and French,which I learned on the fly
somehow, raising two kidssomehow, and sometimes just
trying to remember where Iparked my car.
Now, as a career strategist, Ibelieve a fulfilling career
isn't just for those with IvyLeague degrees or fancy
connections.
(00:46):
No, it's a right we all deserve.
That's why I'm here to bringyou top tier career advice
through coaching courses andthis very podcast where we meet
ordinary people like you and mewho share extraordinary stories
of career success, to prove thatif they can do it, you can do
(01:08):
it too.
So buckle up and get ready toget supercharged.
Hey, welcome back, welcome back.
As you can see from this title,this episode is interesting.
It's different.
I'd like to think every episodeis interesting and different
because I choose my guests superduper carefully, as you
probably know.
And today, why am I saying it'sdifferent?
(01:30):
Okay, so my guest today is anentrepreneur, investor, author,
philanthropist, and last time Ichecked he has founded six
organizations.
So everything he does iscentered around this one word
meaning, giving meaning, okay,and we are going to talk with
(01:52):
Olivier Olivier, I am laughingbecause I checked before, we
pressed record and I'm screwingit up again.
Olivier Onkhinatov we're goingto talk about his career, how he
got to this point with allthese fancy titles.
Yes, we will talk about allthis good stuff, but we will go
deeper and we will talk aboutpurpose, specifically noble
(02:14):
purpose, which has been thecentral theme of Olivier's
career, particularly in these, Iwould say, the last decade and
a half Olivier's career,particularly in these, I would
say, the last decade and a half.
And Olivier's venture, ginpi.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
What is GINPI?
What does it stand for?
It's an acronym.
What he does is in his work.
(02:35):
He works with CEOs, businessowners, investors, political
leaders, including heads ofstate, to improve the condition
of humankind, society and theworld.
How does he do this?
Like?
Does this even make sense toyou?
And you're thinking, oh my gosh, this sounds really soft.
There's nothing soft about this.
We will get into the detailsand, in addition, without
forgetting this, olivier'sjourney has had its fair share
(03:00):
of drama, success setbacks,including being at the helm of
one of Belgium's top telecomcompanies, as well as being
kidnapped a long time ago, beingkidnapped by FARC.
If you don't know what FARC is,it used to be the Revolutionary
People's Army in Colombia backin the day, and it's not that
(03:21):
they're entirely disappeared,but there is a story here.
And how did all theseexperiences, experiences, shape
who Olivier is today?
Olivier, such an honor.
Welcome to the show thank youso much.
Olivier (03:36):
It's an incredible pleasure to be here same same
pleasure.
Sonal (03:41):
Olivier, we're gonna get started because I know that you
and I have worked hard behindthe scenes to get this recording
.
We've been trying for a fewmonths, and so, without further
ado, I'm going to jump right inhere we are, and I'm going to
jump right in.
So let's talk about your career.
Olivier (03:58):
I want to talk about it in two parts, before you
started, jinbi which is forthose who don't know Global
Institution and Noble PurposeInstitute right.
Global Inspiration and NoblePurpose Institute Inspiration.
I knew I messed that up.
Global Inspiration.
Sonal (04:14):
Global Inspiration and Noble Purpose Institute, thank
you.
Before you started Jinbi andafter.
So at the beginning, you workedat all kinds of different
places.
You were at the EuropeanCommission, based in Brussels,
strasbourg and New York, thenyou had your own small venture,
and then you were at Belkacom,which is now known as Proximus,
(04:34):
which is one of the largest,most respected companies here in
Belgium, as well as Ormit,among others.
So let's talk about this part,because I know I'm talking about
it as if it's a monolith, butit must have been a very diverse
experience for you.
Yes, is there any?
Is there any particular role,olivier, that you want to single
out that had a profound impacton your career?
(04:59):
And knowing that this show iscalled how I got hired, we like
we like to know thebehind-the-scenes stuff here.
How did you get that role?
Tell us about that.
Olivier (05:08):
Yes, in sake of the time, I'll try to be doing this
in a summarized way, becausethere are so many things to
share.
I'm happy to be here and I hopethis is going to be interesting
and inspiring for your audience.
(05:29):
So when I was 16, I decidedthat I wanted to be an
ambassador.
And why did I decide that Iwanted to be an ambassador?
Because at my parents andgrandparents' place, we used to
live, like in this.
It's a big house where I livedwith my brothers, my parents and
my grandparents, which was aninteresting, um, interesting
thing, and so often the guestscoming to to meet my parents and
(05:52):
grandparents were people fromall kinds of backgrounds
scholars, cultures and I foundit incredibly exciting to see
all these different people.
Um, and then I I did studiesthat led me to going into a
multilateral diplomacy, which iswhere I started my career, and
I had the incredible opportunityto start working in the very
(06:16):
close environment of the formerpresident of the European
Commission, which is one of theinstitutions of the European
Union under or at a time led byJacques Delors, which was an
absolute reference the lateJacques Delors he died recently
and what I figured out whilebeing there, I mean I have.
I can tell stories that youprobably not believe.
(06:39):
So it was such an exciting timeand at the same time I realized
that this was such a hugemachinery we're talking 90s,
very administrative that I feltthat this was not what I wanted.
So I said this is not the kindof life I want to have.
I had this dream about what Ihad seen as a child and what I
(07:03):
thought diplomacy was about.
But then I saw the reality andthat was absolutely not my thing
.
I can, for example, give as anexample this I was asked by the
head of mission we didn't callour head of the delegation to
(07:24):
the United Nations, so theEuropean Union delegation to the
United Nations.
We didn't call her ambassador,we called her head of mission.
So the head of mission asked meto coordinate a meeting with all
the heads of the differentcountries so the ambassadors of
the different countries and wewere having conversations, or
they were having conversations,about where to put a comma
(07:46):
between words in some phrases,and I thought I was like in a
total.
I come from a surreal, ofsurrealist country, uh, which is
belgium.
So I thought this was like themost surreal thing I had ever
seen and I was like notunderstanding that we would
spend literally minutes,probably even more, on like
where are we going to put thecomma between the words?
Because the way how we wouldinterpret long story short.
(08:08):
I decided after some time toleave because I wanted to do
something more action orientedand I'm not saying, by the way,
that in the european union thereis no action but not the action
that I wanted to have and thatis how I ended up in my first
business venture.
Sonal (08:25):
Oh my gosh, wow, before we talk about your business
venture, but I want to justreflect a few things that you
shared.
It's making me laugh.
The comma so you mentioned thiswas a little bit unusual.
Living with your grandparents Ilove that.
It's actually very common in myculture for multiple families
(08:45):
to live together.
I've lived with my grandparents, including my maternal as well
as my paternal grandparents, andit's one thing that I regret
that my kids don't have today,because they only see them once
or twice a year when we go backto india.
Um, what a, what a gift, what agift that must have been great.
and then the second thing I it'sso interesting, I've had other
guests say this Like I've alwayswanted to do X, y, z, and then
(09:09):
I got there and I said, oh mygosh.
So there is an expression becareful what you wish for,
because when you get it itclarifies what you don't want
sometimes.
And sometimes it comes in wavesto you that, hey, I don't know
what I'm doing here.
Sometimes it can come like alike a bang right, like a brick
(09:30):
hitting your head.
And maybe for you that triggerwas the comma argument, because
you're like what is going on?
There's so many bigger fish tofry and we're talking about this
.
So this is important for ourdear listener.
It may have been hitting you inwaves, it may be hitting you
like a brick when you'requestioning your very presence
(09:52):
in your current environment.
And you said I was looking fora little bit more action.
And you know to be fair, comma.
When I think of action, I don'tthink of comma, I think of
exclamation point, I think ofquestion marks.
If we're going to stick to the,if we're going to stick to the
punctuation ideology, yes, so.
Olivier (10:09):
So what I think is I will speak later um when we go
further in my journey, because Ithink that is really
interesting for the listeners toreflect about impact what is
the kind of impact you want tohave?
And without me being veryconscious at the time because I
was still young, the start of mycareer, I was what?
25, 20-something.
So for me I realized throughoutthat impact is really important
(10:33):
and I was thinking of what, allthe things that were happening
at the time.
There was the Iraq invasion inKuwait.
There was the liberation of theit was just after the fall of
the Berlin Wall, so the formerUSSR was falling apart.
The Baltic states becameindependent and became members
(10:53):
of the United Nations.
There was a lot of stressalready in Palestine, israel,
with the Palestine LiberationOrganization, plo.
So incredibly interesting times.
And I was not seeing how thatreflected.
Sonal (11:08):
I mean, we were talking about there, the ambassadors
were talking about these matters, but it was focused on the
comma and I sort of like didn'tsee the relevance to what- I
understand, and I think thatsays something about you,
olivier, because a person who'ssensitive and caring, because
this is back in the day when wedidn't have computers and phones
(11:29):
in our face all the time, wedidn't have social media and you
were still aware of thegeopolitical around you.
Right, this shows empathy, thisshows, I think, maturity and
words like impact.
I don't know a lot of maybetoday a lot of 20-somethings
think about it, but I didn't.
I don't know a lot of maybetoday, a lot of 20 somethings
think about it, but I didn't.
Olivier (11:47):
Back then, it was more about go out there graduate, get
a job, be useful to society asopposed to.
I think I think it's alsocommon sense.
So no, it's, I really thinkit's also common sense.
I mean, how?
Anyway, I think it was moreabout common sense than about
empathy and and about having abig vision.
I think it was really moreabout common sense.
And how much common sense do wehave in our life?
Right?
Sonal (12:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, as they say, common senseis not common practice.
So then, what made you say I'mgoing to?
So this is the first of yourseveral ventures that you
started and, like you said, I'minexperienced, I didn't quite
know what was going on, what Iwant, but here you are and you
started your first venture.
Olivier (12:26):
What brought that?
I think it was purelyopportunistic.
It was like really purelyopportunistic.
There was no big plan, therewas no big idea.
I was just going with the flow.
I thought like, well, this isnot working at the commission,
which was a bit of a deception,obviously, because you know, I
had this big idea and I thoughtthat, etc.
Etc.
Which I finally didn't proceedwith.
(12:49):
So I met this Dutchentrepreneur, we started talking
and we finally ended up doingbusiness together and I did that
for two years, which was reallyexciting because all of a
sudden I'm in a very differentenvironment.
Talking about doing that is verymuch doing.
(13:11):
We had a merchandising businessenterprises to boost their
products or boost theirreputation or boost the name
through all kinds of things thatwe would produce for them.
I mean the typicalmerchandising, what we call
(13:34):
below the line in the marketingterms.
And then after a year and ahalf or more or less, I realized
that it was a difficult thingto proceed because my business
partner brought in hisfather-in-law and brought in his
(13:54):
spouse and I had accepted that.
But then all of a sudden thedynamics shifted.
Where we were 50-50 owners,there was all the time the
presence of the two others andthat energetically really
created a very differentatmosphere and I was kind of
(14:28):
like fight the energy.
So I decided to sell my 50% toan external shareholder who
bought my 50% and I went back toBrussels to brussels, right,
(14:49):
right, and and and.
Sonal (14:50):
What proceeded next?
Um, olivier, is your uh large,you know long um illustrious
corporate career in belgium,where you did a lot of cool
stuff, like I said, um atbelgacom, which is now called
proximus, and um ormit, thetalent agency, right, so yeah um
.
Olivier (15:01):
So, after after the, so interesting and I and I really
think that this is of value forfor the people listening is is I
had, again, not not a real planand um, I had my degrees.
Um, I had my um first um workexperiences, but there I was
(15:25):
without a plan and then I gotcalled um by uh Elhacom Proximus
.
Now, um, they were looking forum key account managers and I
thought that is cool and I haddiscovered that I'm quite good
in in you know, um promoting idsand promoting um products.
(15:49):
So, long story short, I startedworking with uh belhacom in a
role as a key account managerwas very successful.
After six months, they asked methe typical thing that then
they ask they.
Working with Belhacom in a roleas a key account manager was
very successful.
After six months, they asked methe typical thing that then
they ask.
They asked me to become amanager.
So I became the head ofcustomer service, which was an
incredibly interestingexperience.
We started with four people,ended up with about 35, built a
(16:14):
team.
I learned to manage a team ofwhich I was not the owner,
because I was definitely,obviously not the owner of that,
that enterprise andinterestingly, is I the way how
I was um doing that was bybringing sense to why and I did
(16:34):
this in a very unconscious wayactually, because now it all
seems like very organized, asthat is very much what I'm doing
every day but I did it in a waythat was very organic.
And I'll give an example in myrole as head of customer
relations, I was reporting tothe executive committee because
we obviously discovered a lot ofthings that were not working
(16:55):
well and they found it veryinteresting rightly so to to
learn what was going wrong.
So I would come with a reportand tell them you know, in
production, in logistics, inmarketing, in sales, etc.
Etc.
And, um, there was aconversation that the um at that
time, uh, chief executive umwanted to have with me and he
(17:16):
said you have to fire thatperson.
And I said said you have tofire that person?
And I said why do I have tofire that person in my team?
He said because we have had acomplaint from a customer and
that customer says that he istotally not respecting his
requirements.
And I said to the CEO.
I said but do you know whatthis is about?
Because I knew the case.
So that was a customer that wasactually trying to get a lot of
(17:37):
money from a so-called bigissue that he had and it was
actually a minor thing.
But the guy was just blowing itbecause he thought such a huge
organization at the timeremember we were a 40 000, um, a
40 000 person enterprise and Ihad said to one of my team
members I I said we're not goingto go there, we're not going to
(17:58):
accept to pay that money tocompensate the customer.
So the CEO said to me you haveto fire him.
And I said, if you insist tofire him, then you will, at the
same time, also fire me, becausethat's not how I treat people
and that's not how I will deal.
And he was so surprised that Idared to say that to him.
(18:23):
I was obviously much junior,but this has created.
And then I went back to my teamand I said this is what happened
.
So, guys, we have an importantrole again, impact again.
Why are we here?
What are we doing?
That's it.
So we are not going to let ourcustomers down down, but at the
same time, we're not going tolet our customers down but at
the same time, we're not goingto let our customers do whatever
with our organization which werepresent.
And that became the story in myteam first and then outside of
(18:45):
the team.
That people said, wow, this isamazing the way how they do
business there in that team andI have really learned that that
is really important.
And then I got other roles.
I became executive director ofa large division with about
2,000 people and when Iannounced that I was going to go
there, people said, oh my God,you're going to the trash bin of
(19:06):
the organization because thatdivision had a very bad
reputation.
And I said how can people saythat a division with 2,000
people is the trash bin of theorganization?
And we had to do a massiverestructuring.
Huge increase in productivitywas required, which we achieved
after two years.
We did not fire anybody.
(19:27):
We had, I think, we let goabout a third of the people.
We did it in a very fluent,respectful way and the way how
we did it was by working withthe people and by showing them
how important it was.
By working with the people andby showing them how important it
was to create a future that ifwe would not do that maybe
everybody would stay there, butthen at the end nobody would be
able to stay, because it wouldjust be an unprofitable business
(19:48):
.
And and what I have learned fromthat is when you work with
people, when you lead people andI can tell you it was not an
easy piece.
I mean it now sounds all veryeasy and simple, but it has been
sometimes incredibly difficult.
I was 28, 29, leading adivision of about 2,000 people,
(20:10):
which obviously is not very Imean normal, so to say normal in
the sense of like.
I mean, I was very early inthat role, but I have learned
that working with people isreally important when it comes
to clarity, to explaining whywe're doing what we're doing.
Again, that impact, thatmeaning it started developing
(20:33):
there.
And when people trust you,people believe you, you can do
amazing things.
And that is really what wasvery important for me to create
a trust oh my gosh, yes I, I I'mtaking so much away from this.
Sonal (20:45):
Um, olivier, I think, uh, you leading by example hasn't
happened because you started thenoble purpose institute, it's,
the seeds have been planted along time ago.
Um, to take the senior person'sword as this is it, this is set
(21:06):
in stone.
But to go against it, right,that takes courage, because so
many people would have said inyour place, I have to fire the
guy, I better fire him.
And there's no way I'm gonna tosay if you fire him, you're
going to fire me, because peopleof principles, you know, like
the good guy, the nice guyalways finishes last.
I hate that.
That's not true.
Right, you spoke up and you gotpromoted.
(21:27):
You know, later on you did evenbetter, you did well.
But for people to hear that youstood up for that person and
you said I'm not going to do thewrong thing, because if you're
going to make me do the wrongthing, I'm out.
They the respect that comesfrom that.
They know how hard it is,because if you're done, you're
done.
And a lot of us are coming fromfear, right, a lot of us are
(21:49):
coming from no, keep your job,put your head down, and I think
that the meaning and the purposeyou're talking about is so much
needed.
I know you're talking about the90s, but this is so much needed
.
20, 30 years today, like todaywith greedy, capitalist
companies are like fire the guy,fire these people.
2000 member department, callingthem a garbage bin, which means
(22:14):
this is how you think of people.
Olivier (22:16):
Literally, you're thinking of them as disposable
yes and that is for yeah, goahead unfortunately, and it is
unfortunately what happens toooften, you know.
So what I, what I observe, takeaway.
We will get later to what we doat GIMP.
But I have learned through thatexperience that if you want to
(22:41):
change something, you have toshow the example.
And what I often observe inorganizations, when we are being
asked to transform theirorganizational culture, to
transform in a certain way theirDNA, or to re-tap into the DNA
and by that build the rightculture, they want to change a
lot, they being the executivecommittee, the CEO, the
(23:02):
shareholders.
Yes, it's a change, but then wehave that problem.
I'll give a very clear example.
But then we have that problemwith that chief commercial.
Or we have a bit of an issuewith that CFO, but they bring in
so much money or they know howto run the company, so this
would be a huge problem if wewould fire them.
(23:24):
So then you create thatdisconnect On the one hand, you
want to transform and youbelieve that these leaders have
to show the example, and, on theother hand but you know what
we're going to keep them inplace, even if they behave in a
way that is unacceptable, oreven if they do not respect the
values, or even if they wouldsay things that shocks people,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,and then I say so we love
(23:44):
culture, we love culture, but welove money more.
That's what they're saying,exactly yes.
Or, as you say, not having thecourage to take a difficult call
.
Let me give you an example,without naming the enterprise.
The client we were working fora family-owned pharmaceutical
(24:06):
company, and the CEO was totallywith us wanted to transform,
said help us bring in a noblepurpose, connect that to the
right culture, let's make aperformance organization, et
cetera, et cetera.
So we did that and then webumped into the.
But the problem is that we havean issue with the CFO and the
CFO is super well connected withthe financial markets and the
(24:28):
CFO is the one who knows all thedetails about the business and
there is a risk that I saidlisten to the CEO.
I said to the ceo.
I said to do the ceo.
I said if, if, if, you reallywant to take this serious, you
have to show that you're willingto go there, whatever the cost,
because the, the gain thatyou're going to get is so much
bigger than the price you payfor the cost of letting go of
(24:50):
the cfo, and that made him, uh,decide to let go of the
enterprise.
Sonal (24:58):
And no, it wasn't crazy, everything moved on.
No, because it wasn't his head,the sun shines the next day.
Olivier (25:04):
They stroked a deal, they agreed on things and
obviously they are professionals, so the CFO didn't start
badmouthing to the financialmarkets and what have you?
And things went very well andit has become a very successful
enterprise, despite the risk of.
Sonal (25:23):
I can give many examples of these, but that's I I can
imagine, because you are goinginside the belly of the beast,
olivier, and you're, you're,seeing the things that most
people, they look away, theylook away or they, you know,
they pretend they didn't see itor you know, they feign
ignorance.
But you're seeing it and you're,you're, you're, um, doing it,
but not coming from a place ofyes, we need you know the
(25:45):
classic consulting we need xnumber of people gone, remove
the fat, take out the trash, allthose dehumanizing ways you're
saying that's there's a there'sa reason you hired these people.
They're good people, we'regoing to work together.
Olivier (25:59):
Yes, and let me give an advice to the people listening
here the looking away is whattoo often we also do with
ourselves.
We look away from that.
What we should not look awayfrom, that, what we should not
(26:20):
look away from and if we reallywant to have a successful career
and successful does not onlymean making a lot of money, or I
would even say it is not aboutonly making lots of money, it is
about realizing yourself.
I think that is the mostimportant thing.
And so in my crazy journey,which seems totally um,
non-logic and and probably it isnon-logic there is one logic or
there is one red thread is thatI have more and more learned to
(26:45):
go into that.
What really makes me more ofwho I truly am.
So, by doing all thesedifferent things, I have learned
always from this idea ofbringing meaning, and that
bringing meaning obviously hasbeen super boosted by my
kidnapping and how I wasconfronted brutally with life
(27:06):
and that.
But that is the problem is thata lot of people look away.
They look away from themselves,they're disconnected, so they
do all kinds of things and atthe end of the day they burn out
, they get bored out, they arenot satisfied, they become
horrible leaders because they doall kinds of things and at the
end of the day, they burn out.
They get bored out.
Yeah, they are not satisfied.
They become horrible leadersbecause they're super frustrated
, and I think that is a hugeproblem in our current society.
(27:26):
So people don't look away.
Don't look away.
Look to yourself and see whatis really necessary for you.
How can you become a betterleader?
How can you become a betterinvestor?
How can you become a betterhead of state, a better CEO?
Yes, yes A better baker, abetter professor.
(27:49):
You, you know it is for allkind of roles yeah, which help
you to fulfill your purpose,absolutely so.
Sonal (27:55):
Speaking of which, um, olivia, let's talk about this,
because I know this was a whileago and I, you know, you and I
have chatted before, but I think, um, it's one of those, I think
, events that sometimes theyshape us right, there were a few
events that led you to leavelife as an employee in someone
else's company and just leave,right, and so you mentioned the
(28:17):
kidnapping.
Tell us a little bit about this, because, god forbid, anyone
like, I hope, the personlistening, I hope you never.
We never have to go throughthis, but, olivier, you did and
you made it out.
Thank goodness you did.
But we want to learn what thiswas like for you and how it
(28:38):
changed your outlook.
Olivier (28:42):
Obviously it was horrible.
Imagine getting shot in a carwhen the driver tries to escape
from the attackers.
It was physically a thing thatI wish nobody to have to
experience.
At the same time, it was a hugeum experience for me because
(29:07):
the the many weeks and monthssorry, can I?
Sonal (29:13):
I'm interrupting you, I apologize.
Take us back a little and tellus.
Tell us what was like, tell usthe context, uh, about.
Olivier (29:20):
What were you doing there, what happened, um, etc
okay, so I was um visiting my uhpartner, uh of the time, a life
partner, not business partnerum and was staying um with his
parents.
Um, and there was a friend umof the family, a gentleman, a
businessman that I didn't know,who was interested in the arts,
(29:42):
and I started at a time being uminterested in, in, in
contemporary and in the arts,and I started at a time being
interested in contemporary andin the modern art.
The gentleman learned that, Iguess from the father of my
partner, and he reached out tome and said I'm going to visit
the gallery, are you interested?
Okay, so I was there, actuallyon holidays in Colombia.
(30:04):
Long story short, we went tothe gallery and all the way back
um that gentleman, brian, hewas called um, he said let's go
for dinner, and it was on ourway in the center of bogota,
colombia, that um, we werekidnapped.
And why we were kidnapped?
Because the attackers thoughtthat um in the car were um the
(30:26):
father of my partner and hissecretary, because it was
obviously a blinded car, but itwas a car that my partner's
father had given us, with hisdriver, and so they tried to
kidnap my partner's father andthen ask ransom.
(30:48):
That is actually the context,but then it was not good for him
.
It was not my uh partner'sfather, but it was me and and
that um friend of the family, um, who were in the car.
So when the driver tried toescape from the attackers, they
started shooting at a car untilthey finally could block the car
(31:09):
, beat up the, almost beat todeath the.
The driver threw him over me.
I had already fainted because Igot three bullets in my body,
um and um, and then they took usaway and then, when they
realized after some time that wewere not interesting people
that is too bad for me and forBrian, or just very good is that
(31:34):
they were going to kill us.
And so this is an interestingthing, if you want to have a
suspense moment, one minute, isthey?
We were laying the tree next toeach other and I speak Spanish,
and there was this one guy,probably the gang leader.
There were six terrorists andone of the gang leaders said
liquidate them.
(31:54):
So there was this one guycoming to us charging his um,
his kalashnikov, looking at us,and I was looking at the guy.
At that time I was, I had wokenup from my coma.
I had woken up from my coma anda guy was coming to us and was
going to unload his bullets, andI closed my eyes, sort of like,
made myself little, very little, for as much as I could, and I
(32:18):
went away and I was in a placethat was amazing.
I was in a place of I mean, Ilearned afterwards that I was in
a place of near death which Ihad no idea that that existed.
Um, and it was an amazing place.
It was a place where I sawmillions of flowers, there was
peace, there was, uh, sun, and Isaw, from one of the corners of
(32:40):
that landscape, my like, kindof like a nymph coming, like
flying over the field verygently, and it was my mother,
which was really bizarre.
My mother, by the way, she'sstill alive, she's 87, um, and I
thought that I was in heaven.
So I thought that I was thatactually.
Um, so long story short.
They did not shoot us because,um, a woman which we have never
(33:02):
seen, um in the woods, silent,so it was past midnight, shouted
the police is coming, thepolice is coming.
We were in the woods, 30kilometers out of the city, so
there was no police, there wasnobody in that wood and these
people got afraid, so they fledwith their car and our car and
left us for yeah, well, forwhatever.
That is the story.
(33:22):
So in in the, in the recoveryphase because I had to learn to
walk again, because I wasparalyzed and what have you I
had a lot of time to think and Iwas thinking a lot about life
and how important is life for me?
And I was thinking, what if Iwould have died?
And now that I'm still alive,what can I do with my life?
(33:44):
And I decided at that momentthat I was going to do something
special with life and I wasgoing to try to let as many
people as possible takeadvantage of my experience so
that they would have not to gothrough kidnapping or anything
similar dramatic, but learn fromthis crazy guy who has been
kidnapped and who has a messageto share about meaning and
(34:09):
impact.
And so that is kind of likemaking the circle from doing all
kinds of things totallydisconnected, you could say, to
becoming more and more clearabout what I wanted to do with
my life and for life.
And that is how, how, fromhaving been leading for almost
10 years an amazing enterprisewhich was on it, um, I came to
(34:33):
decide, um, to take a sabbatical.
And I needed a sabbaticalbecause I had been working a lot
, I was successful, um, I made alot of money, but there was
somehow a way that I was notfeeling fulfilled.
And so I said now I have to takemyself serious because I have
picked all the boxes.
I experienced with diplomacy.
(34:53):
I have been an entrepreneur, Ihave been leading a large
division in a big corporation, Ihave been the ceo of of an
enterprise, a very successfulenterprise, with a great team
and what have you, by the way, Itried to do a management buyout
of the organization and finally, it didn't work out.
So I felt like now is the timefor me to really push the stop
(35:19):
button, or pause button ratherand really reconnect with my
experience from the kidnapping,which is the meaning of life I
want to give for the comingdecades.
And so, after that sabbaticalwhich is really, by the way, if
you people who are listening,you can take the time and you
(35:39):
have the opportunity to take asabbatical, do it, because it is
an amazing thing.
It is absolutely clarifying.
It helps you with your life,with your career, it helps you
with clarifying what isimportant Again, it is looking
fully inside.
It's looking fully at yourselfinstead of looking away.
Sonal (35:58):
Yes, what we were talking about before.
Olivier (36:01):
It's not looking away.
It's all the contrary.
I find it very uncomfortableBecause I was a bit from hero to
zero.
I mean I was sitting at homeand sort of like thinking like
what am I going to do tomorrow?
Because I had no job at all, Iwas not doing apart from some
investments that I had, but likethere was no role as such in a
(36:21):
function, and it was incredibly,incredibly enriching.
And that period, that deep divethat I did, that vision quest,
in a certain way, has allowed meto reconnect with all the
things that I had learned andwhat I believed when I was
(36:42):
recovering from my kidnappingwas so important, which was a
respectful life.
And so, long story short, aftermy sabbatical I decided that I
would do something on a globallevel that had sufficient impact
to help the target audiencesthat you mentioned that we work
with, to impact society so thatwe can come to a better
(37:05):
humankind and and to a betterworld, and not from a purely
philosophical perspective butfrom a impact perspective.
So that is more or less thejourney and the connection with
the the kidnapping to kidnappingthank you for sharing this.
Sonal (37:25):
Um, and I love that this made you rethink and, at the
same time, we don't need to gothrough something so
life-altering to do this, butsometimes the shake up is needed
, right, um, you know, just tostay here for a minute here,
olivier, you, you could havedone a few other things.
(37:45):
What made you specifically sayinspiration, noble purpose?
This is it.
You know, some people will sayenvironment, climate, animals,
refugees, this specifically,like someone listening today.
They're like I'm a little lost,kind of figured figuring out my
purpose.
What made you narrow it down?
Olivier (38:12):
I think, probably connecting with who I am, and I
think, when I was 16, as I toldyou, I decided to become an
ambassador.
And what does an ambassador do?
An ambassador represents acountry or an organization or um
, a group of nations, and I'm ina certain way, I'm an
(38:33):
ambassador.
I'm representing ideas, I'mrepresenting this concept of of,
of which impact do you, as ahuman being, want to have?
What kind of life do you wantto live?
How do you want to use peoplethat are working with you, for
you?
Um, in the best way and in thebest way.
That means in a way that thesepeople become better versions,
(38:55):
or the best versions ofthemselves, instead of
exploiting them or instead ofcrushing them.
You know the very neoliberal, Ithink, very sick way of of doing
business.
There is very different ways ofdoing business, and that is
what I figured out in mysabbatical.
I said you can create anincredible economy, a very
powerful economy.
You can create a very powerfulpolitical system where there is
(39:21):
more harmony, where there ismore for everybody to win
instead of only for a smallgroup, whether that is the poor
or the rich, whether that is theprivileged or the
underprivileged, whether I mean.
You know, these things come alltogether in, in, in the way how
I look at things, um and so thethe idea of being an ambassador
(39:44):
is really something that I feel, although I don't call myself
an ambassador, but I amrepresenting that idea and I
call people very much like whatan ambassador would do.
I call people, the CEOs, thebusiness leaders, the political
leaders that we work with aroundthe globe, I call them on their
responsibility and their senseof impact and their sense of
impact.
Let me give you an example.
(40:05):
When we meet, when we aretalking with a potential new
client, I will have aconversation or two with the
president or the CEO, and thenthe first question I will ask is
how successful do you think youare?
And that is a very interestingquestion to ask, because what
(40:26):
are they going to say?
What are the parameters thatmake people decide how
successful I am?
And so most of the people willsay well, you know, we are very
successful because we havetripled our top line, or we have
doubled our bottom line line,or we have an ebida of so much,
(40:47):
or we have a huge uh success inthat market that we have opened
up two years ago.
And then I asked them verybrutally but and very
confrontingly.
I asked them and at whatcollateral damage?
And that is a question thatpeople are not expecting.
So they look at me and they'rekind of like puzzled and these
people are not used.
So they look at me and they'rekind of like puzzled and these
people are not used to bepuzzled, right.
Sonal (41:10):
But they are puzzled or confronted.
Olivier (41:12):
Exactly, and that is a moment when we start having true
conversations.
So, your success, my success,their success at what price do
we get there?
And I have learned that whenthey were telling me are you
crazy to go and lead thatorganization?
It's the garbage bin of theenterprise, I said that is not a
(41:34):
garbage bin.
There is 2000 people workingthere.
And when I remember the greatthings that we could do, despite
the fact that it was a complexdepartment or a complex division
, you can do a lot of thingswith people and I think that is
something that I have learnedthroughout my career, with all
the, the, the mistakes that Imade and with all the, the.
(41:57):
Putting things in perspective,obviously, is that when you have
that approach, you can pushpeople to go really very far and
people will really step overtheir comfort, will step out of
their comfort zone, people willreally confront their, their
fears, and I think that is whatwe need to do yeah, yeah step
(42:17):
out of our comfort zone and andlearn to deal with our fears
exactly, exactly.
Sonal (42:22):
So tell us.
I know you've written a wholebook on this.
Um, olivier, it's a it's not afair question to ask.
But how do this Like, how doyou work when you say improve
humankind, society, world?
Give us like the one two minutesnapshot when you work with a
client and people are like headsof state, ceos, business owners
(42:42):
.
So this is a part two.
Why are they?
What are they?
Why are they hiring you?
Why are they worried?
What is on their mind?
Olivier (42:50):
oh, there are so many um, different reasons, but, um,
some people hire us because ofthe sense of responsibility, so
they know that they want to dothings differently and that they
need to do things differently,but they don't know how to do it
.
Some people, um, are verysuccessful and we have had cases
of clients, very well-knownenterprises, that were very
successful, but the ceos or thepresidents were afraid that by
(43:14):
being too successful, that theorganization would become like
fat, you know, like a fat pig,and they would just sort of like
sit and eat more but not reallymove a lot moving, being
thinking of of innovative ideas,being creative, being ready for
competition, because we are amore and more globalized world,
so competition is easier in acertain way.
Others are organizations thatare in big problems and they
(43:36):
need to transform, but then theyneed to transform what it's,
not because the CEO declareswe're going to transform, that
things are going to happen.
So you need to work with thepeople.
Sonal (43:45):
So often they need to work with people.
Olivier (43:52):
How do you help them transform?
So we help we.
We have a methodology which isa very simple thing and I'm
happy to share it to theaudience.
It's a very simple thing.
We always will make a coherencebetween four what I believe the
four important elements, and wecall that the houses of noble
purpose, and that can be for anngo, that can be for an NGO,
that can be for a for-profit,that can be for a political
party.
It works for all kinds ofsystems, for all kinds of
organizations.
We need to find harmony betweenthe noble purpose, which I
(44:15):
believe is the first thing toclarify.
Why are we doing what we'redoing?
Between the leadership and wedon't speak about leadership, we
speak about lovenship.
It is a loving and caringleadership.
Don't call about, we don'tspeak about leadership.
We speak about love and ship.
It is a loving and caringleadership and it's the capacity
of being a loving and caringleader.
Um, caring in the sense of howcan I help my people to become
the best versions of themselves?
(44:35):
We're not talking love like youwould have with your partner,
like you would have withchildren.
That's not that kind of love.
It's a love of development.
How can we develop our peoplelove and ship.
The third capacity or the thirdelement is is the third capacity
or the third element is is theorganizational culture, with the
values, the guiding principles,the foundation of your
organization, and then it is thestrategy.
So how is the strategy going tosupport the noble purpose?
(44:59):
Noble purpose is like thelong-term idea that is not going
to change every three or fiveyears.
It is.
It's.
It's really why you are in inbusiness or why you as a human
being exist.
I mean, it's exactly the samefor an individual.
And then we try to.
We work with these fourelements, even if we are being
asked at entry point for one ofthe four Can you help us with
(45:22):
aligning the strategy?
Can you help us to transformthe culture?
Can you work around ourleadership or can you do
something about our noblepurpose?
And then we start working withthese four elements in subtle
ways.
That's how we help theseorganizations or these people
transform.
And it works on an individuallevel.
It works on a collective levelcollective being political party
(45:43):
or being an executive team oran intact team or a family
office or a board of directors,and then we have the
organizational level.
Sonal (45:52):
It works, thank you.
It works full stop, which iswhy people continue to work with
you.
Olivier (45:59):
And it's huge because you said in the beginning it's
not something like fluffy,something philosophical.
We use a lot of philosophy andhere again I mean I like to, to,
to share ideas and I like toshare um uh concepts, but at the
end of the day I mean we aregoing full swing into yes, yes,
(46:22):
and we're deep diving, deep dive, absolutely deep diving, and
the impact sonalal is huge, yeahyeah.
It's really huge because we workon the DNA of an organization.
We work with the people, wework with the leadership, we
work with the owners or theleaders or the people behind who
have created so, the investorsor the project creators.
(46:46):
So we work on multiple levelswith with these people but, the
overarching thing is yeah, whichimpact do we want to have?
And is that impact brutal?
Is that impact subtle?
Is that impact local?
Is that impact global?
Is that impact respectful?
Is that impact destructive?
Right, yeah, that is a questionthat we help them to our
(47:08):
resolve and, and they say right,the fish rots at the head.
Sonal (47:12):
So you have to start at the head, at the leadership.
I love that you call it.
Love, ship, um and and love.
When I hear love, I think ofcaring.
I'm not using you, it's notpure pure.
Yes, it's a transaction.
Yes, we have to be profitable,but it doesn't have to be at the
expense of someone's well-being, right, yes, and there's a
bigger purpose that you're doingthis so amazing.
(47:32):
I have this last question Iwant to ask you when you look
back these last 30 odd years outof here, is there a standout
moment maybe the one you sharedthat supercharged your career,
your, your purpose and helpedyou to move closer to your
current success?
Olivier (47:52):
um, I think each of these experiences and I know
this, this, this is maybe a notthe kind of answer you're
looking for, but each of theseexperiences has given me a huge
sorry for my French kick in theass, or a really big boost,
because I had to reinvent myselfeach time and, at the same time
(48:17):
, I have been super guided bymentors, by people who gave me
ideas, who gave me advice, bymentors, by people who gave me
ideas, who gave me advice.
But I think the most importantin my career has been the
sabbatical, having decided todare to stop literally almost
(48:42):
from day one to day two and takethe time to to reinvent myself
and to really be sure that I'mconnected with who I truly am.
So I think that is probably forme, the most.
Sonal (48:56):
If I have to put them on a category of, or hierarchy of,
importance, that's probably themoment in my career that has
been the most relevant to meyeah, thank you so much for
sharing this and I think that,um, if anyone wants to learn
more about, uh, olivier and thenodo purpose institute,
definitely check out the website.
It's gimp, g-i-n-p-i dot org.
(49:19):
Um.
Also, olivier, I'm gonna linkyour your linkedin profile in
the show notes.
People can learn more about you.
You've written a book on this.
I think we need this today morethan ever.
I think the need has never beengreater.
So, um, I really, reallyappreciate you giving us the
time today, um, and sharing withyour heart and um.
(49:40):
I I wish you continued successwith um, with jimpy, with
everything you're doing andbeyond thanks a lot for having
me.
Olivier (49:48):
So now there is more things coming up, more books
coming up, and and I find thisvery interesting, very pleasant
and an honor of having been herewith you.
Sonal (49:58):
So thank you for that hey , you made it to the end and
that means a lot to me becauseyou could have been listening to
a bajillion other things, sothis likely means you enjoyed
the episode.
So I recommend that you hitfollow on the app you were
listening this podcast on andshare it with a friend who could
use some career inspiration.
(50:20):
Come on, sharing is caring,right.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today and catch you
next time on how I Got Hired.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.