April 17, 2024 • 53 mins
An interview with Taj Scicluna
Instagram: @botanical_education
Website: www.botanicaleducation.com
Email: info@botanicaleducation.com.au
BIO: Taj is an artist who fuses together her love of Herbalism, Foraging, Writing, Cooking, Ecosystem Health, Personal Health and Education into a cohesive offering.
Location: Macedon Ranges, Victoria
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More about this episode:
Join us as we explore the essentials of a successful herb garden with our special guest, Taj from Botanical Education. In this informative discussion, we'll delve into the cultivation of medicinal plants and the benefits of a diverse garden for both our health and local ecosystems. Taj, an expert in plant care, shares her experiences and insights on how a close relationship with nature can enhance our environments and well-being.
'How I Grow' is produced by The Seed Collection Pty Ltd.
Find out more about us here: www.theseedcollection.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to how I Grow with the Seed
Collection.
My name is Gemma and today I'llbe speaking with Taj from
Botanical Education.
Taj is an artist who fusestogether her love of herbalism,
foraging, writing, cooking,ecosystem, health, personal
health and education into acohesive offering.
Taj is a wealth of knowledge ofall things herb and herbal and
(00:23):
I've no doubt that everyonelistening will be inspired by
Taj's passion and knowledge.
Today, taj is from MacedonRanges in Victoria, which is
Wurundjeri and Woi Wurrungcountry and a cool climate
region.
Hi, taj, thank you so much fortaking the time to speak with us
(00:45):
today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello Gemma.
Thank you so much for your timeand for inviting me here, Our
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm really eager to learn more about how you grow.
I'd like to start off withasking you what your gardening
style is.
So if you could please tell usa little bit about the land you
garden on, how you go about itand why it's important to you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So the style of gardening that I have is
sometimes quite wild and I liketo be informed by nature and
natural processes.
So although I love ornamental,edible and medicinal gardening
and I always have it in mind tomake it beautiful, I sometimes
(01:33):
don't follow the same parametersas a lot of gardening books or
guidelines.
You know, for example, I justgot some big burdock seeds out
of the garden and I just took amachete to the burdock kind of
bush as it dried and macheted itinto the garden bed and then
(01:56):
created a bit of a no-dig gardenover it so that it would grow,
rather than saving every littleseed and putting it in.
So I have a little bit of awild style gardening and I am
gardening at the moment in myfriend's market garden.
So I rent two rows in themarket garden and my focus is on
(02:22):
medicinals that also act as beefodder and insectaries,
nectaries for insects and forhabitat for other creatures, as
well as providing me with themedicine that I need for clients
.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Oh, that sounds fantastic.
You mentioned bee fodder.
I know a lot of people arereally, really keen to learn
more about how they can helpprotect that really important
species and attract them totheir garden.
What are your go-to plants forthat?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I love a lot of salvias, so many salvias will
act as amazing nectaries forbees.
It gets a little bit morespecific as well sometimes,
because there'll be specificbees in regions, solitary bees
and things like that.
(03:12):
So you can actually look intothe bees of your bioregion and
the kinds of plants that theylike.
You can even look at the plantfamilies or genuses and then
often if you provide thosegenuses in your garden, then
it'll encourage bees from thatbioregion.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Ah, okay, excellent.
So, along with bee fodders andthings like that you mentioned,
you're growing some herbs foryour medicine.
Could you talk us through whatare in those two rows of market
garden space you have at themoment?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, that's very exciting.
So I at the moment I'll giveyou a little bit of a list.
So I have chamomile, burdock,echinacea, red clover, sage,
thyme, oregano, tulsi,motherwort, meadow sweet, and
(04:17):
there's probably a few more thatI'm forgetting right now.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
That sounds fantastic .
Is there any out of those?
I know this is a difficultquestion.
Is there any out of those thatare your favourites?
Like if you had to pick onething.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I yeah, look, I do have some favourites.
I very much always grow oats.
I always grow oat straw and oatstraw for me is an amazing
plant, permaculturally speaking,as it has multiple functions
For me.
I love that.
(04:53):
It is an amazing remedy for thenervous system and I think that
many people could do withnervous system support.
You can't really go wrong withit because it's quite a safe
plant unless people are allergicto avenin.
So oats usually don't.
They don't have gluten.
They're usually processed onmachinery that does have gluten
(05:13):
on it, but people can beallergic to the protein avenin
in it.
So unless you're yeah, you'reallergic to it, it's pretty
amazing for a remedy.
But also, as we know, it's afood plant.
So the seeds are used for rolledoats.
So it's a food, it's a medicine, it's a fodder for animals, so
(05:34):
you can use it actually forlivestock feed.
It can be used as part of agreen manure or to help
regenerate or rest beds.
If you let it dry, then you cancut it and it can be used as
carbon to add to your compost orto lay over the top of beds as
a mulch.
(05:55):
So for me it's a fantasticmultiple function plant and one
of my little tricks that I likewith it as well is that it can
be used as a little bit of afrost trap.
I usually live in frosty areasand I also like to grow a lot of
Mediterranean plants, so duringthe winter they need a little
(06:15):
bit of a buffer, so I'll usuallyactually grow oats around them
to act as a little bit of afrost trap so that those
Mediterranean plants won't betoo harshly affected.
And the other thing that I loveabout oats is it's an annual,
so you can't really go too wrongwith it.
(06:35):
If it doesn't grow right or itdoesn't go right, you just pull
it up and start again the nexttime around.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
That sounds really incredible.
A very diverse range ofbenefits for growing those.
What kind of growing conditionsdo oats require?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So the wild oats is originally from the fertile
crescent.
They can handle a harsh summerand almost drought conditions,
but they need wet feet, theyneed wet roots to get them going
.
So they're actually quiteversatile.
They're usually a temperateregion plant cool to warm
(07:17):
temperate region.
You can grow them both in theautumn to winter and they will
actually germinate in asemi-shaded or full sun position
as long as they get thatadequate water.
They're quite prone to dryingout when they're small, when
they're young, but if you getthrough that period then they
(07:41):
can actually be quite hardythroughout a dry summer.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Fantastic.
I really like what youmentioned about using them as a
buffer as well.
Not only does it help protectthose plants from frost, but
then you have all the benefitsof having grown the oats as well
.
So I really like those circlesof constant usage, multiple uses
, like you mentioned with thepermaculture principles.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think that's fantastic and a lot of people
coming into winter now a lot ofpeople are going to have noted
that the oats are a wonderfulplant as they do have the
multiple functions, but peoplearen't very used to them in the
sense of a gardening plantbecause they're a grass species,
so they look very grassy andit's not usually the pretty uh
(08:29):
yeah, the pretty ornamental thata lot of people go for.
However, you can make them lookreally, really beautiful if you
put them in certain tuftsaround your perennials and your
other ornament more ornamentalplants as well.
So if that's something that youknow you are concerned about
and you do want to beautify yourgarden, oats can act as a
(08:53):
beautifier.
You've just got to know whereand how to use them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Ah, okay, wonderful.
I've seen on your Instagramrecently that you tout the Hori
Hori knife as your favouritegardening tool.
Could you share with us whatthat is and why you consider it
a must-have?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
The Horihori is a Japanese gardening tool.
It's like a trowel, but it's asemi-trowel knife type thing,
and I think that I just love it.
I love it so much.
It's the weight of it for me aswell.
It feels really good in thehand.
It has a really good weight toit, but it's longer than a
(09:33):
trowel usually is, so you canget more depth.
So I really love it because Ican dig up roots with it and
root remedies.
I'm quite often making those inmy apothecary and I also love
that.
It's a knife serrated andthere's a sharp side too, so
(09:54):
it's really good if I'm workingwith bags any bags of
fertilizers or anything oranything that I need to cut
quickly in the garden.
I use it for transplantingquite a lot, digging, harvesting
I can even harvest grasses withthe serrated edge, and I can
take cuttings with the sharpedge if it's sharp enough too.
(10:14):
So I always have it with me.
I have those, and I take mysecateurs everywhere as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Oh wonderful, and I saw on the hoary hoary knife.
There's also a little measuringengraved into the knife there
as well, so you can see howdeeply you're digging for
planting certain things as well.
That's pretty handy.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yes, it is, and for spacing as well.
I do everything by feel, so I'mnot much of a measurer myself,
but it does really come in handyif you need to know the space
between plants.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Taj, so our listeners can get a bit of an
understanding about yourbackground.
I understand you come from apermaculture background, but
could you touch a little bit onwhere you're at now with your
gardening journey and perhapssome of your qualifications in
the garden as well?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yes, I am a trained and qualified permaculturalist.
I completed my permaculturediploma in 2011 and have
completed four permaculturedesign courses, as well as
taught on a bunch ofpermaculture design courses.
(11:28):
I love learning, so I'mconstantly signing up to courses
and investing in my owneducation because it's one of
the things that I see is reallyworthwhile and lasting.
I don't have many things orassets.
Whenever I write down my assets, I'm thinking, oh man, can I
(11:50):
put how much I've spent oneducation down as an asset,
because I think that that's mygreatest one.
To be honest, that's where mostof my time, energy and money
has gone in my life.
So, apart from more of thosegarden qualifications and doing
food forest courses and learningsoil microbiology with Elaine
(12:14):
Ingham in the States and allthese different little pathways
to learn more about gardening,I've always had a deep passion
and reverence for medicinalplants and plants that have a
capacity to heal through theeffects of their constituents on
our physiology.
(12:35):
So I have done an advanceddiploma in Western herbalism, a
Bachelor of health science inwestern herbalism, and also a
year-long phytochemistry courseas well, because I love plant
chemistry, and where this hastaken me now is I mainly focus
(12:59):
on medicinal plants.
I don't much more design gardensfor clients unless they're
medicinal gardens, becausethat's the thing that really
gets me going and I just don'tsee the point in doing after all
this time, doing a lot ofthings that I'm not passionate
about, and medicinal plants justreally have my heart.
(13:23):
I love making up differentthings in my apothecary, so now
what I'm doing is I am growingmost of the plants that are in
my dispensary that I'm using forclients now because I'm a
herbal consultant, so I'm aherbalist that will see clients
(13:47):
online and face to face, and Ilove being able to grow or
forage or wild craft theingredients that I use and then,
using my photochemistryknowledge, I will then prepare
the remedies myself and dispensethem to my clients.
So not only do I know where theplant is grown, I know how it
(14:10):
has been made, where the plantscome from, there's a lot less
embodied energy in it, etc.
I also feel really good aboutassisting people to have more of
a bioregional connection to theplants because it is grown
close to them, and so this issomething that I'm actually
really deeply passionate aboutis linking people together with
(14:35):
their bioregions throughbotanical practice.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That sounds incredible and for anybody that
hasn't seen Taja's Instagrampage, botanical Education, I
highly recommend checking it out.
It radiates passion and thereis just an absolute wealth of
knowledge there.
I love, taj, how you justmentioned there that you count
your education as your greatestasset.
I think that's a reallypowerful statement and it
(15:02):
actually gave me goosebumps.
I think, if we could, all youknow, take that view when it
comes to the things we'relearning and how we connect with
the earth around us.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I think it would to acknowledge that I'm privileged
enough to be able to have donethose things as well, and that
education doesn't come as easyfor some, or the opportunities
for education.
So I do really want torecognise that.
For me, with my business, it'sactually a real point of
(15:47):
contention, because I believe ineducation being accessible and
I don't want to necessarily holdknowledge hostage for profit.
However, I also have invested alot of time and energy and my
own money into this, and the waythat I really wish to create a
livelihood is by sharing it withpeople.
(16:09):
So I'm doing my best to walkthat line and try and make it
accessible while still making aliving.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's a really beautiful philosophy, taj.
I really, really respect thatapproach, and you do yourself
offer some education as well.
You're not just hoarding all ofthis information you share
quite abundantly on your socials, but you also offer some
courses, don't you?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, I do.
That's one of my favouritethings to do with my time is to
share what I have learnt withpeople, and quite often in my
courses I I liken it to I'vesaid this to a few people in
courses that I I liken this to asunset for me anyway.
So watching a sunset can feelwonderful on your own You're
(17:02):
watching it and it's beautiful.
But for me, the treasuredmoment of watching a sunset is
being able to turn around tosomeone and say, wow, can you
see that?
And they say, yeah, I can.
And it's this moment of feelinglike you can both witness the
same beauty in the world.
(17:22):
That, for me, is the point of itall, and that's the way that I
feel about teaching is that Ilearn all of these things and
I'm so excited about it, but itdoesn't really translate or land
until I can say to someone, oh,don't you think that this is
amazing?
And then the participants willsay, or some of them will say,
(17:45):
yes, I do, and you watch themlight up, and that's the moment
where it feels like it makes itall makes sense to me and it all
comes together.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I love that, I really love that, and I like something
else that I've seen you mentionbefore about your
responsibility as a teacher.
Could you touch a little bit onthat?
I thought that was a reallypowerful statement too.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh yeah, if I start this, I'll never stop, but yes,
I do feel like I have a hugeresponsibility as an educator,
and I'm not sure if alleducators and teachers do
(18:29):
understand this, because most ofthe time when you meet someone
and they say that they are notgood at a particular subject or
a particular thing, if you askthem if their teacher what their
teacher was like with thatsubject, they'll usually respond
(18:50):
with oh, my teacher was rubbish.
Or yeah, no, I didn't get alongwith that teacher, or you know
something to that effect.
So I feel like a lot of thetime, the teacher, the educator,
the facilitator makes a hugedifference to the trajectory of
someone's life and what theywant to learn and do, and I
(19:11):
think it's a huge injustice tothe world to have to have people
put off learning, like to me.
That like that almost hurtswhen I think about it, for
people to not feel like they'regood at learning.
I've had quite a fewparticipants that have come up
(19:31):
to me and said do you know what?
I thought that I was bad atlearning until I came to your
course, and it saddens me to noend that someone would think
that they are bad at learning.
It's there for everyone to doand it doesn't matter how you do
(19:52):
it.
You've just got to beinterested, and if educators
don't foster that interest inpeople, then I feel like they're
doing a massive disservice tonot only that person but to the
world in some ways, because themore that we learn about the
world, the deeper the respect wehave for it I think will be,
(20:14):
and then the better we'll be atbeing custodians.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Very true, very true.
That's excellent.
I really agree with that.
The teacher can make a world ofdifference.
They really can.
So, moving back into the gardenside of things, taj, what are
some of the ways you use theherbs that you grow?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh, there's so, so many things that I do.
So the herbs that I grow in mydispensary so the herbs that I
grow in my dispensary, theybecome loose leaf teas, or I
make them into tinctures ordrops using alcohol as a
preservative, or I will makecreams, balms.
(20:59):
I can make different juices.
Even so, the the list goes oncapsules sometimes I prefer it's
quite funny, because I don'tthink that the only method of uh
, distributing a herb or ortaking a herb should be
(21:22):
ingesting a herb, should be justwith a liquid extract or a
tincture, and in the past it'sreally gotten to me that that
seems one of the only avenues ofadministration for a lot of
naturopaths and herbalists.
But I have to say that now Ihave my own little dispensary
(21:44):
that I'm creating and running.
I understand this to a degree,because it's actually much
harder to keep loose leaf herbspreserved and in good quality
for a longer period of time.
If you make them into atincture or alcohol-based
(22:09):
hydroethanolic extraction, thenit's preserved and you don't
really have to worry so muchabout it spoiling.
So although I do have a lot ofloose leaf teas, I actually have
to monitor them a lot more thanthe other things, and then
(22:32):
there's a variety of differentkind of seed saving that I do
for the next year as well, andutilizing different herbs for
their properties, even in thegarden.
So making little weed teas asfertilisers, nettle tea for the
garden and things like that.
(22:57):
So sometimes I will actuallygive back to the garden with the
herbs that I grow as well.
There's quite a few that arevery mineral rich and I really
like to ensure that I'm not onlyjust taking from the garden but
giving back to the garden.
So there's a huge uh degree ofreciprocity in my work and I
really try and think about howto give back, especially, you
know, even with the me and mypartner talk about it.
(23:18):
There's a mulberry tree on thisproperty.
It's 130 years old.
It's absolutely astounding andit gives so much every year and
so much joy and so much fruit.
And then we've been talkingabout, oh, this autumn we should
actually go and feed that treeand fertilize it because it
gives to us.
So why not give to?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
it Lovely?
Yes, why not?
So some of the things I've seenactually quite a bit of garden
art or food magic, if you willthat looks absolutely divine on
your page are some recipes andfoods.
I've seen things like lavendercustard tarts and nettle and
blackberry cupcakes that lookamazing.
(23:59):
Obviously these are thingsyou've grown sorry, you've
created from the herbs thatyou've grown in your garden.
Do you have a favourite thatyou think you know the average
gardener will have these itemsin their garden?
Have these particular herbs intheir garden Favourite sort of
quick fix to make?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So it's funny, a quick recipe from herbs in the
garden.
Now, I love getting creativewith the herbs that I grow and
what I can do with them, whichyou'll see on my page.
It's funny because I've startedoffering recipes for my patrons
and this is yeah, I make alittle kind of recipe book, but
(24:40):
for me it's actually very hardto measure because I do
everything by feel.
I even bake by feel.
So I often will do measurementsonly because I've got people
that will ask me for them.
But if I was to choose onerecipe that I think is really
versatile for people and easy,it's to make pestos.
(25:02):
So I love making wild foodpesto and you can do this with
nettles.
I'm absolutely obsessed withnettle, I've even got a pot of
it on the stove now and you cando this with nettle.
Or you can do it dandelion orchickweed or any wild greens
(25:22):
that you know are edible andyou've identified correctly, and
you can make them into a pestoso that it becomes quite
palatable because they've gotall these different flavors.
You can add your nuts and seeds, your olive oil, lemon juice or
vinegar, salt and any herbs andspices or garlic that you like
(25:46):
and then whiz that up and youkeep that in the fridge and it
lasts and you have thisdelicious wild food
accompaniment to meals in yourfridge every day.
So you don't have tonecessarily go foraging every
day either.
So I love wild pestos.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I think everybody has to love a bit of
pesto Delicious.
That's something you werementioning earlier, Taj, when
you were talking aboutpreserving your herbs.
Do you have a preference foryour own preservation of them?
I know you mentioned thetinctures and things like that.
What would be your preferencewhen it comes to preserving
(26:28):
things you've grown?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, look, although I don't think that tinctures are
the best method ofadministration all the time, and
that's because quite often whenseeing clients or if people
have an ailment, you've got tothink about where you want the
(26:52):
where you want that herb to go.
You know, for example, if ifsomeone has a respiratory
infection, it's best to make asteam with herbs sometimes
rather than taking a tincturefor everything.
But for me, there's an art andscience to tincturing that I
(27:14):
love and I find deeplyenthralling and interesting
calculating the concentrationsand making sure that they're all
right and then making sure thatI actually can recreate that
same concentration over and overagain for my clients.
(27:34):
So for me I think thattincturing, especially at the
moment, is my favorite because Ican, there's so much that I can
do with it, there's so muchthat I can learn with it and I
find it the science of it reallyreally stimulating.
And then it acts as apreservative for a really long
(27:55):
time and then I can use thosetinctures in creams or in other
other recipes as well.
So it's quite versatile.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Ah, it is.
It's nice when things areversatile like that.
I think it's, yeah very handy.
So, taj, could you tell us alittle bit about what your
current garden looks like today?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, so today I've got these two lovely rows within
a market garden and I have.
First of all, there's a woodenarchway at the front which my
partner lovingly built, and helovingly built three more
archways that go down the garden.
(28:40):
The garden it's got quite awide path so that people can
come and do courses and thingslike that in the garden as well.
But these other archways aremade from rebar, so I've had
pumpkins growing over them,which I love.
I love pumpkins.
I think they're the mostwhimsical vegetable, I think
(29:01):
they're delightful and there'sso many different kinds and I
want to grow them all.
And so they've been growing upthese archways and then hanging
like beautiful globes andthey're now starting to shrivel
up.
So I'm on to starting the sweetpeas along the archways for the
winter.
And then, yeah, I've got thesetwo long rows which I am
(29:28):
currently building the soil andmulching for the autumn
plantings.
There's quite a few herbs that Ilike to plant in autumn rather
than in spring, and this isbecause in spring here we might
get the rain for the the rootsto really take hold in the soil.
(29:53):
However, we have really reallyharsh and extreme summers here
sometimes, and I really like theidea of growing, starting them
in the autumn, because I thinkthat they get a better head
start, even if they areperennials, so they'll flourish
(30:14):
for a little while, then they'lldie back for the winter and
then they'll come back for thespring.
So I like to do an autumnplanting of quite a lot of my
herbs, and there's quite a fewthat I have ready to plant.
Next week I've got a volunteergarden day with some of my
students and they're going tocome and be part of the garden
(30:38):
preparation.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Lovely and the use of space for the vertical pumpkins
.
I really like that.
I think that's very clever.
Have you found that the weightof any of the pumpkins have been
a problem?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
um, no, no, not necessarily.
It's been fine because the therebar is actually quite strong
and sturdy, uh, thanks to myengineer brained partner.
Uh, so they're very sturdy andyou'd be surprised.
It's funny that the pumpkinsthey're weighty.
But if you ever notice thepumpkins they grow on such a it
(31:16):
looks like a flimsy stalk and aflimsy runner, but it actually
can take a lot of weight.
So don't let looks deceive you.
By any account and yeah,they've been quite prolific
You've got to find the ones thatrun and not the ones that just
(31:38):
mound or kind of spread out likea zucchini.
So they you know.
I found that golden nuggetsaren't very good.
I thought that that'd actuallybe great because they've got
these little tiny golden globesthat look really, really cute
hanging, but they're not as muchof a creeper in the cucurbitay
family, so I had to find someother ones that were best and so
(32:01):
what species did you havegrowing up there?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
a variety, sorry what are they?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
the province, oh, it's a, it's a uh, the musk
province yes, yeah, that is.
It's a beautiful pumpkin andthat was one of the best to grow
up the archways there.
That's been really reallyprolific and amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
They are gorgeous like the ideal cartoon pumpkin
too, aren't they Like veryCinderella-esque.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yes, like I said, they're so whimsical and
beautiful and so I love.
I've got my prized pumpkinsitting here actually next to me
, and I am really excited.
I'm going to make a pumpkin piefor the people on the farm for
tomorrow night.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh yum, lovely for tomorrow night, oh yum, lovely.
So we've touched on a bit ofvertical gardening.
Is there anything that you sortof would like to try, that's
completely different in thegardening realm, something that
you think might be a little bitquirky or unusual, that you'd
like to have a go at or have had?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's interesting.
I think I've had a go at a lotof different types of gardening
vertical gardens, I've had a goat roof gardens, because I
really like learning a bunch ofdifferent techniques, and not
only the techniques, but wherethey're applicable so where
(33:36):
they're applicable climaticallyand, uh, you know, with the
terrain that you're working with, because a lot of the time I
think that humans, uh, we tryand overlay what we want onto an
area rather than taking in whatwill work on the area.
(33:57):
And now I know quite a fewlittle tricks or things that I
like to do within the climatethat I'm used to.
I guess I think that the Idon't know if there's many out
there ideas that I can thinkabout right now, even though I
know my partner would beterrified with me because he's
(34:19):
the king of wacky ideas but weactually would love to grow a
garden one day I'm a big fan oftiny house and big garden and my
dream garden and have a bigorrery.
So me and my partner actuallywant to build a garden sculpture
(34:46):
.
An orrery is the thing where youturn the cogs and the planets
spin.
That's the way that I usuallywill tell people about it,
because they know usually whatit is but they don't know the
name of it.
So that contraption where theplanets spin and there's a bunch
of different cogs that work it.
(35:06):
We actually want to make a bigkind of life structure of one of
those in a garden and in abeautiful medicinal garden with
a place for educating andlearning.
I'm a big fan of getting peopleout into the garden.
(35:28):
I think that one of the thingsthat is destroying our health is
that we're not exposed toenough movement, sunlight, air.
You know, we're just notoutside doing things as much
anymore.
So I would like to maximizemore of our time in the garden
and doing hands-on kinestheticwork as much as I can.
(35:51):
So my dream and kind of outthere gardening idea more has to
do with the sculptures and thescope and the education and the
infrastructure than it does justwith the garden.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, I think there's a range of benefits too, just
for being outdoors.
You know all the healthymicrobiome, but also just our
body's natural rhythms.
They fall into a better harmonywhen we're outdoors and we're
in nature.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, you can even see in kids.
Kids act different when they'reoutside and I don't think that
we're any different.
We've just been conditioned tobe adults.
And I just thought as well thatyou asked me if I have any, you
know, out there gardening ideasor things that I would like to
try.
Look, I haven't thought about itfor a little while because of
(36:46):
where I'm at at the moment, buteventually, when I am done with
some of the projects that I'mdoing now, I'm ready to move on
to something else, and perhapson a property where this is
possible now.
And ready to move on tosomething else, and perhaps on a
property where this is possible, I would actually love to grow
uh, people talk about foodforests, but I would love to
grow medicine forests, somedicinal forest gardens, and
(37:11):
concentrate on ecosystems andrecreating ecosystems, for
example, and have a realscientific premise behind it as
well.
Of thinking about what nichesthese plants actually fulfill
within the bioregion and whatplants, what plant plants
(37:34):
animals, insects, reptiles,mammals and things like that
that these plants would bebenefiting and that these little
ecosystems would be benefiting.
So recreating it in a way thatis actually hopefully conducive
to the bioregion that I'll be inbut also acts as a little bit
of a platform to educate peopleabout medicinal forest garden
(37:59):
systems and how they come from,ecosystems that help other
things to be intact, help forhabitat and food and nectar and
places to rear young and allthese kind of things.
So I really love the idea ofeducating people about ecology,
(38:21):
but through medicine.
I'm not an ecologist, I'm aneducator, but this is where I
would really like to go.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That sounds incredible, and is that
something you would like to seemore of in the gardening realm
in terms of on an everydaygardener scale, people gardening
more in tune with theirspecific regions as well,
definitely.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that it's one of thethings that's missing a little
bit.
It's hard in this world becauseI contemplate, played it quite
a lot.
Um, I am very, I am veryinterested in agriculture.
I'm very interested in the, theway that we garden, I love
(39:06):
living on farms and things likethat.
I love milking cows, I lovegrowing food and I like learning
about it.
However, I am aware of how, onthe land that I'm on,
agriculture really has beenoverlaid onto this landscape
(39:28):
through colonialism, and I thinkabout that quite deeply,
because I think about, oh, howdo we, how do we bridge these
gaps?
And not necessarily go back,but I do feel like our
agricultural practices have beendeeply damaging to this land in
(39:48):
a bunch of ways.
So, yeah, my hope is that wewould.
My hope is that we would startliving with a little bit more
awareness about where we are andwho lives there with us, so not
just humans, the human who, butthe other who lives there with
(40:13):
us.
Yeah, and then try and designour gardens and interact with
that space, with those creaturesand kin in mind.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I think that's very important.
Has there been anything thatyou've found it particularly
challenging to grow, and itcould just be the one specific
herb or vegetable or plant,anything in particular that's
really challenged you, thatyou've learned a lot from?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
oh, yeah, there's, there's a couple of these, um.
So first of all let's talkabout, first of all, one of my
dear loves, my love affair withDittany of Crete.
And I was growing that reallysuccessfully when I lived in the
(41:06):
Dandenong Ranges, or in thesurrounds of the Dandenong
Ranges, on more flattertopography rather than the hills
, and I was growing this quitewell.
But as I moved to MacedonRanges the frosts were just
destroying it and it just seemedto be so sensitive to moisture
(41:26):
so I would have it inside allwinter and then I would put it
outside, because it's aMediterranean plant, and then,
you know, one night a frostwould get it or something, and I
was like damn.
So I would try and try again,as I've been here and finding
different ways, and now I havefour of them growing
(41:47):
successfully.
So a couple of the things thathave been really helpful to that
is that getting the plants.
I think that the company I wasgetting the plants from they
were actually too.
They were too small to be sentoff and transplanted, so I was
(42:07):
having real trouble with thoseand keeping them alive.
But these new ones that I gotwere quite a little bit more
advanced in their life cycle anddevelopment, and I think that
that's helped quite a lot.
And then I've I put one in apot in the garden so I could
move it around and see where itliked it best instead of putting
(42:30):
it in the garden, and I havejust tried things very slowly
with them.
So, for example, the two onehasn't been transplanted and
another one I just transplantedwith succulent soil and
monitored both of them to see,okay, does this transplant well
(42:50):
or doesn't it?
And that one's flourishing nowand flowering.
So I'm really excited aboutthat.
And the other plant that I havehad a little bit of trouble with
, which is quite hard to getyour hands on, is rhodiola, and
that's because I look, I onlyhad one of them really to
experiment with and I can't.
(43:10):
I try not to be too harsh onmyself, and I would say this to
a lot of gardeners or buddinggardeners that, like you, will
kill things, and I I've beendoing this for a really long
time and I still kill things andI, though I'm disappointed, I
do see it as a really biglearning curve and quite often
when I get a new plant,especially if I know that it's
(43:31):
rare or it's hard to grow, I'llgive myself a little bit of
leniency, I'll know, okay, I'mexperimenting here.
I can look up the books, I cando the things that they say, but
really I am in a differentclimatic, yeah, a different
microclimate to.
You know a lot of books.
(43:52):
We all are.
We're all very, very climatespecific to our region, so I
give myself a little bit ofleniency with it.
But the rhodiola has been hardto grow.
It's an alpine plant, so thatcan be a difficult microclimate
to mimic and I really would liketo grow it though, because it
(44:17):
is an endangered species, andit's become endangered because
it's a great remedy for adapting, to stress.
So the Western world has becomeprivy to this and it means that
it has threatened that speciesin China massively, has
threatened that species in Chinamassively.
(44:40):
So I try and grow a few speciesthat I know are threatened, as
a little bit of a homage orstewardship type program.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a nice way to give back too.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, and I don't.
Often I don't really like usingutilising plants that I don't
grow or forage myself, or atleast haven't tried to.
I feel like if I've tried togrow something and I've had that
relationship with it, then Ifeel much more okay with the
(45:17):
idea of dispensing it or workingwith it.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Now you mentioned letting other gardeners know
that you know it's okay, youwill kill plants.
We've all been there.
If you could go back to thevery beginning of your gardening
journey, or if you werespeaking to somebody who's
listened to you today andthought, wow, I'm going to get
out there and plant a herbgarden, what would be the bit of
(45:44):
advice you would give to themor yourself when you were
starting out?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I think there would be a couple of bits of advice
that I would give to people.
I think that, yeah, the adviceto myself and the advice to
others might be a little bitdifferent.
The advice to myself would beto not give too much energy away
, and I know that that mightsound incredibly individualized,
(46:12):
and it's not that I don'tbelieve in community and working
with community.
I believe in it very, very much.
However, I believed in it somuch that I sometimes that would
be to my detriment, because Iwould be involved in a lot of
community projects orcommunities or different things,
(46:34):
and what I gained from that inlearning is amazing and I'm
really happy about that.
But in terms of kind of myenergy and how grief stricken I
was when I had to leave aproject or a garden or something
like this, it really had quitean impact on me.
(46:55):
So I think that it's okay forpeople to work within their, the
parameters of their own energy,because working with community,
the whole premise behind it isit actually supposed to make it
easier.
You're supposed to share theload together, you know.
So to myself I would say don'tforget that.
(47:17):
Don't forget that community issupposed to make the load a
little bit easier altogether andI think that the bit of advice
that I would give to others ifthey're, you know, getting
started getting out there intoit is start small.
I think the backyard blitz justcompletely destroyed gardening
(47:40):
and the idea of gardening.
A lot of people just think thatthey can create a garden in a
weekend and then they get reallydismayed because they want to
do everything, plant everythingout.
You know, even if they've gotacreage, they'll try and do the
whole lot.
Or even if they've done apermaculture design course,
they'll try and design the wholelot.
Now, let they've done apermaculture design course.
They'll try and design thewhole lot, now let's get into it
(48:00):
.
It's like no, no, no, it'soverwhelming because we weren't
ever supposed to do this as anuclear family model, we were
supposed to do it as a village,and now for us to be working and
raising kids and looking aftersick family and all of that as
well as trying to garden forbeauty or for food, it can be
(48:26):
really overwhelming.
So I think that starting with apatch and getting that patch
growing well and getting thatfeedback from the garden, just
focusing on that first, and oncethat's growing well, once
you're used to it.
Once you know how much it takesto maintain, then you move on
(48:50):
to another thing, becauseotherwise people can think
they're just rubbish atgardening, when you're not.
It's just a case of time andenergy and, yeah, knowing what
you're working with.
So, starting small, gettingthat going first, getting
feedback from the garden,because then you get that
(49:11):
feedback of, oh, it's going well, and you're like I'm great, I'm
great at this, I can do it, andthen that spurs you on to keep
going rather than being dismayedthat all corners of your garden
aren't flourishing.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I love that.
I think that's fantastic advice.
Just taking the time to spendwith one area at a time, one
thing at a time, and it does.
It goes a long way in helpingthe confidence with the garden
and it also goes a long way inwhat you'll learn and observe
from your own garden too.
Like you say, the feedback fromthe garden that's so important.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, you need to.
That's what it's all aboutHaving that feedback, having
those relationships, seeing whatthe garden is actually saying
to you, what it's telling youQuite often.
You'll get to know the languageif you actually pay attention.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yes, very true.
So, Taj, thank you so much foryour time today.
It's been fantastic chattingwith you, and I'm sure we've got
listeners out there who havebeen completely inspired by you
today.
We really appreciate you havingtaken this time and sharing
your wisdom and passion with us.
It's very clear how passionateand knowledgeable you are, and I
(50:20):
could chat with you for hours,I think, but before we sign off,
could you please share with ushow our listeners can find out
more about you and perhaps someways that they can find you?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
No worries, gemma.
So I'm Taj Sukluna and you canfind me at
botanicaleducationcomau.
I have a Patreon as well, wherepeople can sign up to get
little packages and study groupsand things like that.
(50:54):
I've just released, with mylovely colleague, willow
Herbnerd.
We've just released ourbotanical education knowledge
cards which we use in courses,and these are designed to help
people learn herbalism in avisual and kinesthetic way
rather than just through endlessreference books.
(51:15):
And apart from that, I have afew upcoming courses.
The herbal apprentice is aneight-week course focusing on
the foundations of grassrootsherbalism.
I love, I love teaching that.
That's a face-to-face course.
And I am releasing a programcalled ritualbalism, which is a
(51:36):
whole year online course, andthis is dedicated to learning
about ecology and your bioregion, your bioregion through
seasonal living and botanicalpractices, so really kind of
diving into the deeper realms ofhow I feel about botanicals and
(51:59):
what they can actually offer uson a deeper, more meaningful
level and how that can connectus to the land.
I've got a bunch of otherlittle short courses and things
like that that you can find onmy website, but that's really
the gist of it, as well asoffering herbal consultations in
my little apothecary and ourhome created dispensary.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Thank you so much, taj.
So that address again for ourlisteners is
botanicaleducationcomau.
You've been listening to how IGrow, produced by the Seed
Collection in Melbourne,australia.
It's our aim to make gardeningmore accessible to more people,
and this podcast is one of themany ways we're doing that.
(52:45):
If you don't already know whowe are, jump online and visit
wwwtheseedcollectioncomau.
You'll find a treasure trove ofgardening information, as well
as a huge range of gardensupplies and accessories.
That address again iswwwtheseedcollectioncomau.
(53:07):
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to how I Grow with the Seed
Collection.
My name is Gemma and today I'llbe speaking with Taj from
Botanical Education.
Taj is an artist who fusestogether her love of herbalism,
foraging, writing, cooking,ecosystem, health, personal
health and education into acohesive offering.
Taj is a wealth of knowledge ofall things herb and herbal and
(00:23):
I've no doubt that everyonelistening will be inspired by
Taj's passion and knowledge.
Today, taj is from MacedonRanges in Victoria, which is
Wurundjeri and Woi Wurrungcountry and a cool climate
region.
Hi, taj, thank you so much fortaking the time to speak with us
(00:45):
today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello Gemma.
Thank you so much for your timeand for inviting me here, Our
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm really eager to learn more about how you grow.
I'd like to start off withasking you what your gardening
style is.
So if you could please tell usa little bit about the land you
garden on, how you go about itand why it's important to you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So the style of gardening that I have is
sometimes quite wild and I liketo be informed by nature and
natural processes.
So although I love ornamental,edible and medicinal gardening
and I always have it in mind tomake it beautiful, I sometimes
(01:33):
don't follow the same parametersas a lot of gardening books or
guidelines.
You know, for example, I justgot some big burdock seeds out
of the garden and I just took amachete to the burdock kind of
bush as it dried and macheted itinto the garden bed and then
(01:56):
created a bit of a no-dig gardenover it so that it would grow,
rather than saving every littleseed and putting it in.
So I have a little bit of awild style gardening and I am
gardening at the moment in myfriend's market garden.
So I rent two rows in themarket garden and my focus is on
(02:22):
medicinals that also act as beefodder and insectaries,
nectaries for insects and forhabitat for other creatures, as
well as providing me with themedicine that I need for clients
.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Oh, that sounds fantastic.
You mentioned bee fodder.
I know a lot of people arereally, really keen to learn
more about how they can helpprotect that really important
species and attract them totheir garden.
What are your go-to plants forthat?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I love a lot of salvias, so many salvias will
act as amazing nectaries forbees.
It gets a little bit morespecific as well sometimes,
because there'll be specificbees in regions, solitary bees
and things like that.
(03:12):
So you can actually look intothe bees of your bioregion and
the kinds of plants that theylike.
You can even look at the plantfamilies or genuses and then
often if you provide thosegenuses in your garden, then
it'll encourage bees from thatbioregion.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Ah, okay, excellent.
So, along with bee fodders andthings like that you mentioned,
you're growing some herbs foryour medicine.
Could you talk us through whatare in those two rows of market
garden space you have at themoment?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, that's very exciting.
So I at the moment I'll giveyou a little bit of a list.
So I have chamomile, burdock,echinacea, red clover, sage,
thyme, oregano, tulsi,motherwort, meadow sweet, and
(04:17):
there's probably a few more thatI'm forgetting right now.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
That sounds fantastic .
Is there any out of those?
I know this is a difficultquestion.
Is there any out of those thatare your favourites?
Like if you had to pick onething.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I yeah, look, I do have some favourites.
I very much always grow oats.
I always grow oat straw and oatstraw for me is an amazing
plant, permaculturally speaking,as it has multiple functions
For me.
I love that.
(04:53):
It is an amazing remedy for thenervous system and I think that
many people could do withnervous system support.
You can't really go wrong withit because it's quite a safe
plant unless people are allergicto avenin.
So oats usually don't.
They don't have gluten.
They're usually processed onmachinery that does have gluten
(05:13):
on it, but people can beallergic to the protein avenin
in it.
So unless you're yeah, you'reallergic to it, it's pretty
amazing for a remedy.
But also, as we know, it's afood plant.
So the seeds are used for rolledoats.
So it's a food, it's a medicine, it's a fodder for animals, so
(05:34):
you can use it actually forlivestock feed.
It can be used as part of agreen manure or to help
regenerate or rest beds.
If you let it dry, then you cancut it and it can be used as
carbon to add to your compost orto lay over the top of beds as
a mulch.
(05:55):
So for me it's a fantasticmultiple function plant and one
of my little tricks that I likewith it as well is that it can
be used as a little bit of afrost trap.
I usually live in frosty areasand I also like to grow a lot of
Mediterranean plants, so duringthe winter they need a little
(06:15):
bit of a buffer, so I'll usuallyactually grow oats around them
to act as a little bit of afrost trap so that those
Mediterranean plants won't betoo harshly affected.
And the other thing that I loveabout oats is it's an annual,
so you can't really go too wrongwith it.
(06:35):
If it doesn't grow right or itdoesn't go right, you just pull
it up and start again the nexttime around.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
That sounds really incredible.
A very diverse range ofbenefits for growing those.
What kind of growing conditionsdo oats require?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So the wild oats is originally from the fertile
crescent.
They can handle a harsh summerand almost drought conditions,
but they need wet feet, theyneed wet roots to get them going
.
So they're actually quiteversatile.
They're usually a temperateregion plant cool to warm
(07:17):
temperate region.
You can grow them both in theautumn to winter and they will
actually germinate in asemi-shaded or full sun position
as long as they get thatadequate water.
They're quite prone to dryingout when they're small, when
they're young, but if you getthrough that period then they
(07:41):
can actually be quite hardythroughout a dry summer.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Fantastic.
I really like what youmentioned about using them as a
buffer as well.
Not only does it help protectthose plants from frost, but
then you have all the benefitsof having grown the oats as well
.
So I really like those circlesof constant usage, multiple uses
, like you mentioned with thepermaculture principles.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think that's fantastic and a lot of people
coming into winter now a lot ofpeople are going to have noted
that the oats are a wonderfulplant as they do have the
multiple functions, but peoplearen't very used to them in the
sense of a gardening plantbecause they're a grass species,
so they look very grassy andit's not usually the pretty uh
(08:29):
yeah, the pretty ornamental thata lot of people go for.
However, you can make them lookreally, really beautiful if you
put them in certain tuftsaround your perennials and your
other ornament more ornamentalplants as well.
So if that's something that youknow you are concerned about
and you do want to beautify yourgarden, oats can act as a
(08:53):
beautifier.
You've just got to know whereand how to use them.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Ah, okay, wonderful.
I've seen on your Instagramrecently that you tout the Hori
Hori knife as your favouritegardening tool.
Could you share with us whatthat is and why you consider it
a must-have?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
The Horihori is a Japanese gardening tool.
It's like a trowel, but it's asemi-trowel knife type thing,
and I think that I just love it.
I love it so much.
It's the weight of it for me aswell.
It feels really good in thehand.
It has a really good weight toit, but it's longer than a
(09:33):
trowel usually is, so you canget more depth.
So I really love it because Ican dig up roots with it and
root remedies.
I'm quite often making those inmy apothecary and I also love
that.
It's a knife serrated andthere's a sharp side too, so
(09:54):
it's really good if I'm workingwith bags any bags of
fertilizers or anything oranything that I need to cut
quickly in the garden.
I use it for transplantingquite a lot, digging, harvesting
I can even harvest grasses withthe serrated edge, and I can
take cuttings with the sharpedge if it's sharp enough too.
(10:14):
So I always have it with me.
I have those, and I take mysecateurs everywhere as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Oh wonderful, and I saw on the hoary hoary knife.
There's also a little measuringengraved into the knife there
as well, so you can see howdeeply you're digging for
planting certain things as well.
That's pretty handy.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yes, it is, and for spacing as well.
I do everything by feel, so I'mnot much of a measurer myself,
but it does really come in handyif you need to know the space
between plants.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Taj, so our listeners can get a bit of an
understanding about yourbackground.
I understand you come from apermaculture background, but
could you touch a little bit onwhere you're at now with your
gardening journey and perhapssome of your qualifications in
the garden as well?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yes, I am a trained and qualified permaculturalist.
I completed my permaculturediploma in 2011 and have
completed four permaculturedesign courses, as well as
taught on a bunch ofpermaculture design courses.
(11:28):
I love learning, so I'mconstantly signing up to courses
and investing in my owneducation because it's one of
the things that I see is reallyworthwhile and lasting.
I don't have many things orassets.
Whenever I write down my assets, I'm thinking, oh man, can I
(11:50):
put how much I've spent oneducation down as an asset,
because I think that that's mygreatest one.
To be honest, that's where mostof my time, energy and money
has gone in my life.
So, apart from more of thosegarden qualifications and doing
food forest courses and learningsoil microbiology with Elaine
(12:14):
Ingham in the States and allthese different little pathways
to learn more about gardening,I've always had a deep passion
and reverence for medicinalplants and plants that have a
capacity to heal through theeffects of their constituents on
our physiology.
(12:35):
So I have done an advanceddiploma in Western herbalism, a
Bachelor of health science inwestern herbalism, and also a
year-long phytochemistry courseas well, because I love plant
chemistry, and where this hastaken me now is I mainly focus
(12:59):
on medicinal plants.
I don't much more design gardensfor clients unless they're
medicinal gardens, becausethat's the thing that really
gets me going and I just don'tsee the point in doing after all
this time, doing a lot ofthings that I'm not passionate
about, and medicinal plants justreally have my heart.
(13:23):
I love making up differentthings in my apothecary, so now
what I'm doing is I am growingmost of the plants that are in
my dispensary that I'm using forclients now because I'm a
herbal consultant, so I'm aherbalist that will see clients
(13:47):
online and face to face, and Ilove being able to grow or
forage or wild craft theingredients that I use and then,
using my photochemistryknowledge, I will then prepare
the remedies myself and dispensethem to my clients.
So not only do I know where theplant is grown, I know how it
(14:10):
has been made, where the plantscome from, there's a lot less
embodied energy in it, etc.
I also feel really good aboutassisting people to have more of
a bioregional connection to theplants because it is grown
close to them, and so this issomething that I'm actually
really deeply passionate aboutis linking people together with
(14:35):
their bioregions throughbotanical practice.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That sounds incredible and for anybody that
hasn't seen Taja's Instagrampage, botanical Education, I
highly recommend checking it out.
It radiates passion and thereis just an absolute wealth of
knowledge there.
I love, taj, how you justmentioned there that you count
your education as your greatestasset.
I think that's a reallypowerful statement and it
(15:02):
actually gave me goosebumps.
I think, if we could, all youknow, take that view when it
comes to the things we'relearning and how we connect with
the earth around us.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I think it would to acknowledge that I'm privileged
enough to be able to have donethose things as well, and that
education doesn't come as easyfor some, or the opportunities
for education.
So I do really want torecognise that.
For me, with my business, it'sactually a real point of
(15:47):
contention, because I believe ineducation being accessible and
I don't want to necessarily holdknowledge hostage for profit.
However, I also have invested alot of time and energy and my
own money into this, and the waythat I really wish to create a
livelihood is by sharing it withpeople.
(16:09):
So I'm doing my best to walkthat line and try and make it
accessible while still making aliving.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's a really beautiful philosophy, taj.
I really, really respect thatapproach, and you do yourself
offer some education as well.
You're not just hoarding all ofthis information you share
quite abundantly on your socials, but you also offer some
courses, don't you?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, I do.
That's one of my favouritethings to do with my time is to
share what I have learnt withpeople, and quite often in my
courses I I liken it to I'vesaid this to a few people in
courses that I I liken this to asunset for me anyway.
So watching a sunset can feelwonderful on your own You're
(17:02):
watching it and it's beautiful.
But for me, the treasuredmoment of watching a sunset is
being able to turn around tosomeone and say, wow, can you
see that?
And they say, yeah, I can.
And it's this moment of feelinglike you can both witness the
same beauty in the world.
(17:22):
That, for me, is the point of itall, and that's the way that I
feel about teaching is that Ilearn all of these things and
I'm so excited about it, but itdoesn't really translate or land
until I can say to someone, oh,don't you think that this is
amazing?
And then the participants willsay, or some of them will say,
(17:45):
yes, I do, and you watch themlight up, and that's the moment
where it feels like it makes itall makes sense to me and it all
comes together.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I love that, I really love that, and I like something
else that I've seen you mentionbefore about your
responsibility as a teacher.
Could you touch a little bit onthat?
I thought that was a reallypowerful statement too.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh yeah, if I start this, I'll never stop, but yes,
I do feel like I have a hugeresponsibility as an educator,
and I'm not sure if alleducators and teachers do
(18:29):
understand this, because most ofthe time when you meet someone
and they say that they are notgood at a particular subject or
a particular thing, if you askthem if their teacher what their
teacher was like with thatsubject, they'll usually respond
(18:50):
with oh, my teacher was rubbish.
Or yeah, no, I didn't get alongwith that teacher, or you know
something to that effect.
So I feel like a lot of thetime, the teacher, the educator,
the facilitator makes a hugedifference to the trajectory of
someone's life and what theywant to learn and do, and I
(19:11):
think it's a huge injustice tothe world to have to have people
put off learning, like to me.
That like that almost hurtswhen I think about it, for
people to not feel like they'regood at learning.
I've had quite a fewparticipants that have come up
(19:31):
to me and said do you know what?
I thought that I was bad atlearning until I came to your
course, and it saddens me to noend that someone would think
that they are bad at learning.
It's there for everyone to doand it doesn't matter how you do
(19:52):
it.
You've just got to beinterested, and if educators
don't foster that interest inpeople, then I feel like they're
doing a massive disservice tonot only that person but to the
world in some ways, because themore that we learn about the
world, the deeper the respect wehave for it I think will be,
(20:14):
and then the better we'll be atbeing custodians.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Very true, very true.
That's excellent.
I really agree with that.
The teacher can make a world ofdifference.
They really can.
So, moving back into the gardenside of things, taj, what are
some of the ways you use theherbs that you grow?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh, there's so, so many things that I do.
So the herbs that I grow in mydispensary so the herbs that I
grow in my dispensary, theybecome loose leaf teas, or I
make them into tinctures ordrops using alcohol as a
preservative, or I will makecreams, balms.
(20:59):
I can make different juices.
Even so, the the list goes oncapsules sometimes I prefer it's
quite funny, because I don'tthink that the only method of uh
, distributing a herb or ortaking a herb should be
(21:22):
ingesting a herb, should be justwith a liquid extract or a
tincture, and in the past it'sreally gotten to me that that
seems one of the only avenues ofadministration for a lot of
naturopaths and herbalists.
But I have to say that now Ihave my own little dispensary
(21:44):
that I'm creating and running.
I understand this to a degree,because it's actually much
harder to keep loose leaf herbspreserved and in good quality
for a longer period of time.
If you make them into atincture or alcohol-based
(22:09):
hydroethanolic extraction, thenit's preserved and you don't
really have to worry so muchabout it spoiling.
So although I do have a lot ofloose leaf teas, I actually have
to monitor them a lot more thanthe other things, and then
(22:32):
there's a variety of differentkind of seed saving that I do
for the next year as well, andutilizing different herbs for
their properties, even in thegarden.
So making little weed teas asfertilisers, nettle tea for the
garden and things like that.
(22:57):
So sometimes I will actuallygive back to the garden with the
herbs that I grow as well.
There's quite a few that arevery mineral rich and I really
like to ensure that I'm not onlyjust taking from the garden but
giving back to the garden.
So there's a huge uh degree ofreciprocity in my work and I
really try and think about howto give back, especially, you
know, even with the me and mypartner talk about it.
(23:18):
There's a mulberry tree on thisproperty.
It's 130 years old.
It's absolutely astounding andit gives so much every year and
so much joy and so much fruit.
And then we've been talkingabout, oh, this autumn we should
actually go and feed that treeand fertilize it because it
gives to us.
So why not give to?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
it Lovely?
Yes, why not?
So some of the things I've seenactually quite a bit of garden
art or food magic, if you willthat looks absolutely divine on
your page are some recipes andfoods.
I've seen things like lavendercustard tarts and nettle and
blackberry cupcakes that lookamazing.
(23:59):
Obviously these are thingsyou've grown sorry, you've
created from the herbs thatyou've grown in your garden.
Do you have a favourite thatyou think you know the average
gardener will have these itemsin their garden?
Have these particular herbs intheir garden Favourite sort of
quick fix to make?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So it's funny, a quick recipe from herbs in the
garden.
Now, I love getting creativewith the herbs that I grow and
what I can do with them, whichyou'll see on my page.
It's funny because I've startedoffering recipes for my patrons
and this is yeah, I make alittle kind of recipe book, but
(24:40):
for me it's actually very hardto measure because I do
everything by feel.
I even bake by feel.
So I often will do measurementsonly because I've got people
that will ask me for them.
But if I was to choose onerecipe that I think is really
versatile for people and easy,it's to make pestos.
(25:02):
So I love making wild foodpesto and you can do this with
nettles.
I'm absolutely obsessed withnettle, I've even got a pot of
it on the stove now and you cando this with nettle.
Or you can do it dandelion orchickweed or any wild greens
(25:22):
that you know are edible andyou've identified correctly, and
you can make them into a pestoso that it becomes quite
palatable because they've gotall these different flavors.
You can add your nuts and seeds, your olive oil, lemon juice or
vinegar, salt and any herbs andspices or garlic that you like
(25:46):
and then whiz that up and youkeep that in the fridge and it
lasts and you have thisdelicious wild food
accompaniment to meals in yourfridge every day.
So you don't have tonecessarily go foraging every
day either.
So I love wild pestos.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I think everybody has to love a bit of
pesto Delicious.
That's something you werementioning earlier, Taj, when
you were talking aboutpreserving your herbs.
Do you have a preference foryour own preservation of them?
I know you mentioned thetinctures and things like that.
What would be your preferencewhen it comes to preserving
(26:28):
things you've grown?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, look, although I don't think that tinctures are
the best method ofadministration all the time, and
that's because quite often whenseeing clients or if people
have an ailment, you've got tothink about where you want the
(26:52):
where you want that herb to go.
You know, for example, if ifsomeone has a respiratory
infection, it's best to make asteam with herbs sometimes
rather than taking a tincturefor everything.
But for me, there's an art andscience to tincturing that I
(27:14):
love and I find deeplyenthralling and interesting
calculating the concentrationsand making sure that they're all
right and then making sure thatI actually can recreate that
same concentration over and overagain for my clients.
(27:34):
So for me I think thattincturing, especially at the
moment, is my favorite because Ican, there's so much that I can
do with it, there's so muchthat I can learn with it and I
find it the science of it reallyreally stimulating.
And then it acts as apreservative for a really long
(27:55):
time and then I can use thosetinctures in creams or in other
other recipes as well.
So it's quite versatile.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Ah, it is.
It's nice when things areversatile like that.
I think it's, yeah very handy.
So, taj, could you tell us alittle bit about what your
current garden looks like today?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, so today I've got these two lovely rows within
a market garden and I have.
First of all, there's a woodenarchway at the front which my
partner lovingly built, and helovingly built three more
archways that go down the garden.
(28:40):
The garden it's got quite awide path so that people can
come and do courses and thingslike that in the garden as well.
But these other archways aremade from rebar, so I've had
pumpkins growing over them,which I love.
I love pumpkins.
I think they're the mostwhimsical vegetable, I think
(29:01):
they're delightful and there'sso many different kinds and I
want to grow them all.
And so they've been growing upthese archways and then hanging
like beautiful globes andthey're now starting to shrivel
up.
So I'm on to starting the sweetpeas along the archways for the
winter.
And then, yeah, I've got thesetwo long rows which I am
(29:28):
currently building the soil andmulching for the autumn
plantings.
There's quite a few herbs that Ilike to plant in autumn rather
than in spring, and this isbecause in spring here we might
get the rain for the the rootsto really take hold in the soil.
(29:53):
However, we have really reallyharsh and extreme summers here
sometimes, and I really like theidea of growing, starting them
in the autumn, because I thinkthat they get a better head
start, even if they areperennials, so they'll flourish
(30:14):
for a little while, then they'lldie back for the winter and
then they'll come back for thespring.
So I like to do an autumnplanting of quite a lot of my
herbs, and there's quite a fewthat I have ready to plant.
Next week I've got a volunteergarden day with some of my
students and they're going tocome and be part of the garden
(30:38):
preparation.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Lovely and the use of space for the vertical pumpkins
.
I really like that.
I think that's very clever.
Have you found that the weightof any of the pumpkins have been
a problem?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
um, no, no, not necessarily.
It's been fine because the therebar is actually quite strong
and sturdy, uh, thanks to myengineer brained partner.
Uh, so they're very sturdy andyou'd be surprised.
It's funny that the pumpkinsthey're weighty.
But if you ever notice thepumpkins they grow on such a it
(31:16):
looks like a flimsy stalk and aflimsy runner, but it actually
can take a lot of weight.
So don't let looks deceive you.
By any account and yeah,they've been quite prolific
You've got to find the ones thatrun and not the ones that just
(31:38):
mound or kind of spread out likea zucchini.
So they you know.
I found that golden nuggetsaren't very good.
I thought that that'd actuallybe great because they've got
these little tiny golden globesthat look really, really cute
hanging, but they're not as muchof a creeper in the cucurbitay
family, so I had to find someother ones that were best and so
(32:01):
what species did you havegrowing up there?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
a variety, sorry what are they?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
the province, oh, it's a, it's a uh, the musk
province yes, yeah, that is.
It's a beautiful pumpkin andthat was one of the best to grow
up the archways there.
That's been really reallyprolific and amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
They are gorgeous like the ideal cartoon pumpkin
too, aren't they Like veryCinderella-esque.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yes, like I said, they're so whimsical and
beautiful and so I love.
I've got my prized pumpkinsitting here actually next to me
, and I am really excited.
I'm going to make a pumpkin piefor the people on the farm for
tomorrow night.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh yum, lovely for tomorrow night, oh yum, lovely.
So we've touched on a bit ofvertical gardening.
Is there anything that you sortof would like to try, that's
completely different in thegardening realm, something that
you think might be a little bitquirky or unusual, that you'd
like to have a go at or have had?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's interesting.
I think I've had a go at a lotof different types of gardening
vertical gardens, I've had a goat roof gardens, because I
really like learning a bunch ofdifferent techniques, and not
only the techniques, but wherethey're applicable so where
(33:36):
they're applicable climaticallyand, uh, you know, with the
terrain that you're working with, because a lot of the time I
think that humans, uh, we tryand overlay what we want onto an
area rather than taking in whatwill work on the area.
(33:57):
And now I know quite a fewlittle tricks or things that I
like to do within the climatethat I'm used to.
I guess I think that the Idon't know if there's many out
there ideas that I can thinkabout right now, even though I
know my partner would beterrified with me because he's
(34:19):
the king of wacky ideas but weactually would love to grow a
garden one day I'm a big fan oftiny house and big garden and my
dream garden and have a bigorrery.
So me and my partner actuallywant to build a garden sculpture
(34:46):
.
An orrery is the thing where youturn the cogs and the planets
spin.
That's the way that I usuallywill tell people about it,
because they know usually whatit is but they don't know the
name of it.
So that contraption where theplanets spin and there's a bunch
of different cogs that work it.
(35:06):
We actually want to make a bigkind of life structure of one of
those in a garden and in abeautiful medicinal garden with
a place for educating andlearning.
I'm a big fan of getting peopleout into the garden.
(35:28):
I think that one of the thingsthat is destroying our health is
that we're not exposed toenough movement, sunlight, air.
You know, we're just notoutside doing things as much
anymore.
So I would like to maximizemore of our time in the garden
and doing hands-on kinestheticwork as much as I can.
(35:51):
So my dream and kind of outthere gardening idea more has to
do with the sculptures and thescope and the education and the
infrastructure than it does justwith the garden.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, I think there's a range of benefits too, just
for being outdoors.
You know all the healthymicrobiome, but also just our
body's natural rhythms.
They fall into a better harmonywhen we're outdoors and we're
in nature.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, you can even see in kids.
Kids act different when they'reoutside and I don't think that
we're any different.
We've just been conditioned tobe adults.
And I just thought as well thatyou asked me if I have any, you
know, out there gardening ideasor things that I would like to
try.
Look, I haven't thought about itfor a little while because of
(36:46):
where I'm at at the moment, buteventually, when I am done with
some of the projects that I'mdoing now, I'm ready to move on
to something else, and perhapson a property where this is
possible now.
And ready to move on tosomething else, and perhaps on a
property where this is possible, I would actually love to grow
uh, people talk about foodforests, but I would love to
grow medicine forests, somedicinal forest gardens, and
(37:11):
concentrate on ecosystems andrecreating ecosystems, for
example, and have a realscientific premise behind it as
well.
Of thinking about what nichesthese plants actually fulfill
within the bioregion and whatplants, what plant plants
(37:34):
animals, insects, reptiles,mammals and things like that
that these plants would bebenefiting and that these little
ecosystems would be benefiting.
So recreating it in a way thatis actually hopefully conducive
to the bioregion that I'll be inbut also acts as a little bit
of a platform to educate peopleabout medicinal forest garden
(37:59):
systems and how they come from,ecosystems that help other
things to be intact, help forhabitat and food and nectar and
places to rear young and allthese kind of things.
So I really love the idea ofeducating people about ecology,
(38:21):
but through medicine.
I'm not an ecologist, I'm aneducator, but this is where I
would really like to go.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That sounds incredible, and is that
something you would like to seemore of in the gardening realm
in terms of on an everydaygardener scale, people gardening
more in tune with theirspecific regions as well,
definitely.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that it's one of thethings that's missing a little
bit.
It's hard in this world becauseI contemplate, played it quite
a lot.
Um, I am very, I am veryinterested in agriculture.
I'm very interested in the, theway that we garden, I love
(39:06):
living on farms and things likethat.
I love milking cows, I lovegrowing food and I like learning
about it.
However, I am aware of how, onthe land that I'm on,
agriculture really has beenoverlaid onto this landscape
(39:28):
through colonialism, and I thinkabout that quite deeply,
because I think about, oh, howdo we, how do we bridge these
gaps?
And not necessarily go back,but I do feel like our
agricultural practices have beendeeply damaging to this land in
(39:48):
a bunch of ways.
So, yeah, my hope is that wewould.
My hope is that we would startliving with a little bit more
awareness about where we are andwho lives there with us, so not
just humans, the human who, butthe other who lives there with
(40:13):
us.
Yeah, and then try and designour gardens and interact with
that space, with those creaturesand kin in mind.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I think that's very important.
Has there been anything thatyou've found it particularly
challenging to grow, and itcould just be the one specific
herb or vegetable or plant,anything in particular that's
really challenged you, thatyou've learned a lot from?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
oh, yeah, there's, there's a couple of these, um.
So first of all let's talkabout, first of all, one of my
dear loves, my love affair withDittany of Crete.
And I was growing that reallysuccessfully when I lived in the
(41:06):
Dandenong Ranges, or in thesurrounds of the Dandenong
Ranges, on more flattertopography rather than the hills
, and I was growing this quitewell.
But as I moved to MacedonRanges the frosts were just
destroying it and it just seemedto be so sensitive to moisture
(41:26):
so I would have it inside allwinter and then I would put it
outside, because it's aMediterranean plant, and then,
you know, one night a frostwould get it or something, and I
was like damn.
So I would try and try again,as I've been here and finding
different ways, and now I havefour of them growing
(41:47):
successfully.
So a couple of the things thathave been really helpful to that
is that getting the plants.
I think that the company I wasgetting the plants from they
were actually too.
They were too small to be sentoff and transplanted, so I was
(42:07):
having real trouble with thoseand keeping them alive.
But these new ones that I gotwere quite a little bit more
advanced in their life cycle anddevelopment, and I think that
that's helped quite a lot.
And then I've I put one in apot in the garden so I could
move it around and see where itliked it best instead of putting
(42:30):
it in the garden, and I havejust tried things very slowly
with them.
So, for example, the two onehasn't been transplanted and
another one I just transplantedwith succulent soil and
monitored both of them to see,okay, does this transplant well
(42:50):
or doesn't it?
And that one's flourishing nowand flowering.
So I'm really excited aboutthat.
And the other plant that I havehad a little bit of trouble with
, which is quite hard to getyour hands on, is rhodiola, and
that's because I look, I onlyhad one of them really to
experiment with and I can't.
(43:10):
I try not to be too harsh onmyself, and I would say this to
a lot of gardeners or buddinggardeners that, like you, will
kill things, and I I've beendoing this for a really long
time and I still kill things andI, though I'm disappointed, I
do see it as a really biglearning curve and quite often
when I get a new plant,especially if I know that it's
(43:31):
rare or it's hard to grow, I'llgive myself a little bit of
leniency, I'll know, okay, I'mexperimenting here.
I can look up the books, I cando the things that they say, but
really I am in a differentclimatic, yeah, a different
microclimate to.
You know a lot of books.
(43:52):
We all are.
We're all very, very climatespecific to our region, so I
give myself a little bit ofleniency with it.
But the rhodiola has been hardto grow.
It's an alpine plant, so thatcan be a difficult microclimate
to mimic and I really would liketo grow it though, because it
(44:17):
is an endangered species, andit's become endangered because
it's a great remedy for adapting, to stress.
So the Western world has becomeprivy to this and it means that
it has threatened that speciesin China massively, has
threatened that species in Chinamassively.
(44:40):
So I try and grow a few speciesthat I know are threatened, as
a little bit of a homage orstewardship type program.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a nice way to give back too.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, and I don't.
Often I don't really like usingutilising plants that I don't
grow or forage myself, or atleast haven't tried to.
I feel like if I've tried togrow something and I've had that
relationship with it, then Ifeel much more okay with the
(45:17):
idea of dispensing it or workingwith it.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Now you mentioned letting other gardeners know
that you know it's okay, youwill kill plants.
We've all been there.
If you could go back to thevery beginning of your gardening
journey, or if you werespeaking to somebody who's
listened to you today andthought, wow, I'm going to get
out there and plant a herbgarden, what would be the bit of
(45:44):
advice you would give to themor yourself when you were
starting out?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I think there would be a couple of bits of advice
that I would give to people.
I think that, yeah, the adviceto myself and the advice to
others might be a little bitdifferent.
The advice to myself would beto not give too much energy away
, and I know that that mightsound incredibly individualized,
(46:12):
and it's not that I don'tbelieve in community and working
with community.
I believe in it very, very much.
However, I believed in it somuch that I sometimes that would
be to my detriment, because Iwould be involved in a lot of
community projects orcommunities or different things,
(46:34):
and what I gained from that inlearning is amazing and I'm
really happy about that.
But in terms of kind of myenergy and how grief stricken I
was when I had to leave aproject or a garden or something
like this, it really had quitean impact on me.
(46:55):
So I think that it's okay forpeople to work within their, the
parameters of their own energy,because working with community,
the whole premise behind it isit actually supposed to make it
easier.
You're supposed to share theload together, you know.
So to myself I would say don'tforget that.
(47:17):
Don't forget that community issupposed to make the load a
little bit easier altogether andI think that the bit of advice
that I would give to others ifthey're, you know, getting
started getting out there intoit is start small.
I think the backyard blitz justcompletely destroyed gardening
(47:40):
and the idea of gardening.
A lot of people just think thatthey can create a garden in a
weekend and then they get reallydismayed because they want to
do everything, plant everythingout.
You know, even if they've gotacreage, they'll try and do the
whole lot.
Or even if they've done apermaculture design course,
they'll try and design the wholelot.
Now, let they've done apermaculture design course.
They'll try and design thewhole lot, now let's get into it
(48:00):
.
It's like no, no, no, it'soverwhelming because we weren't
ever supposed to do this as anuclear family model, we were
supposed to do it as a village,and now for us to be working and
raising kids and looking aftersick family and all of that as
well as trying to garden forbeauty or for food, it can be
(48:26):
really overwhelming.
So I think that starting with apatch and getting that patch
growing well and getting thatfeedback from the garden, just
focusing on that first, and oncethat's growing well, once
you're used to it.
Once you know how much it takesto maintain, then you move on
(48:50):
to another thing, becauseotherwise people can think
they're just rubbish atgardening, when you're not.
It's just a case of time andenergy and, yeah, knowing what
you're working with.
So, starting small, gettingthat going first, getting
feedback from the garden,because then you get that
(49:11):
feedback of, oh, it's going well, and you're like I'm great, I'm
great at this, I can do it, andthen that spurs you on to keep
going rather than being dismayedthat all corners of your garden
aren't flourishing.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I love that.
I think that's fantastic advice.
Just taking the time to spendwith one area at a time, one
thing at a time, and it does.
It goes a long way in helpingthe confidence with the garden
and it also goes a long way inwhat you'll learn and observe
from your own garden too.
Like you say, the feedback fromthe garden that's so important.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, you need to.
That's what it's all aboutHaving that feedback, having
those relationships, seeing whatthe garden is actually saying
to you, what it's telling youQuite often.
You'll get to know the languageif you actually pay attention.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yes, very true.
So, Taj, thank you so much foryour time today.
It's been fantastic chattingwith you, and I'm sure we've got
listeners out there who havebeen completely inspired by you
today.
We really appreciate you havingtaken this time and sharing
your wisdom and passion with us.
It's very clear how passionateand knowledgeable you are, and I
(50:20):
could chat with you for hours,I think, but before we sign off,
could you please share with ushow our listeners can find out
more about you and perhaps someways that they can find you?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
No worries, gemma.
So I'm Taj Sukluna and you canfind me at
botanicaleducationcomau.
I have a Patreon as well, wherepeople can sign up to get
little packages and study groupsand things like that.
(50:54):
I've just released, with mylovely colleague, willow
Herbnerd.
We've just released ourbotanical education knowledge
cards which we use in courses,and these are designed to help
people learn herbalism in avisual and kinesthetic way
rather than just through endlessreference books.
(51:15):
And apart from that, I have afew upcoming courses.
The herbal apprentice is aneight-week course focusing on
the foundations of grassrootsherbalism.
I love, I love teaching that.
That's a face-to-face course.
And I am releasing a programcalled ritualbalism, which is a
(51:36):
whole year online course, andthis is dedicated to learning
about ecology and your bioregion, your bioregion through
seasonal living and botanicalpractices, so really kind of
diving into the deeper realms ofhow I feel about botanicals and
(51:59):
what they can actually offer uson a deeper, more meaningful
level and how that can connectus to the land.
I've got a bunch of otherlittle short courses and things
like that that you can find onmy website, but that's really
the gist of it, as well asoffering herbal consultations in
my little apothecary and ourhome created dispensary.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Thank you so much, taj.
So that address again for ourlisteners is
botanicaleducationcomau.
You've been listening to how IGrow, produced by the Seed
Collection in Melbourne,australia.
It's our aim to make gardeningmore accessible to more people,
and this podcast is one of themany ways we're doing that.
(52:45):
If you don't already know whowe are, jump online and visit
wwwtheseedcollectioncomau.
You'll find a treasure trove ofgardening information, as well
as a huge range of gardensupplies and accessories.
That address again iswwwtheseedcollectioncomau.
(53:07):
Thanks for listening.
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