April 23, 2025 • 26 mins
Ever wondered how a shared struggle can spark a lifelong friendship? In Episode 72 of "How I Met My BFF," Leisa and Tamara dive into an inspiring story with Jenna Udenberg and Jaime Head-MacAlister. From a chance meeting in a physical therapy pool to founding a nonprofit, these two have turned shared challenges into a powerful bond. Discover how their contrasting personalities—Jenna’s introversion and Jaime’s extroversion—perfectly complement each other, creating a friendship that transcends physical therapy sessions and ventures into impactful community work. Their nonprofit, Above and Beyond with U, is breaking barriers for individuals with mobility disabilities. Join us for laughs, insights, and a celebration of friendship's transformative power. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave reviews, and share your own BFF stories with us!
To support their non-profit please visit: https://AboveAndBeyondWithU.org
Visit our site at howimetmybff.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa (00:01):
Hey, besties. My name's Lisa.
Tamara (00:03):
And my name's Tamara, and we're BFFs.
Leisa (00:06):
Tamara and I met when we were about 12 years old growing
up in good old Fairbanks,Alaska.
Tamara (00:11):
And we've been best friends forever since.
Leisa (00:13):
That's right. And that's why we've decided to have some
fun, friendly conversations withthe bestest of best friends.
Tamara (00:18):
We'll talk about how we became best friends, our
experiences together, and haveother best friends on the show
to share how they met. Whoknows? You never
Leisa (00:27):
know when you'll meet your next BFF.
Tamara (00:30):
Now let's get into it, how I met my BFF.
Leisa (00:34):
Welcome to another episode of how I met my BFF. Hi,
Tamara.
Tamara (00:40):
Hey, Lisa. How's it going?
Leisa (00:42):
It's good. So last night, I had a karaoke party. Well, it
was at my friend's house, and Iknow that you have a karaoke
machine. I don't have a karaokemachine. But what was so funny
is that Mark, last night we gothome, he's like looking them up
online.
He's like, what do you thinkabout this karaoke machine? I
(01:02):
said, do not buy me a karaokemachine because if you do, I
will not get anything done.Because I will just be literally
singing my little heart out forall day long. I am so addicted
to it. It's us that we just keepit at someone else's house.
And we have my my girlfriend whohad the little it was a cupcake
(01:26):
karaoke margarita parties, flashflash party. Like, just come
over tonight. We're doingcupcakes, karaoke, and
margaritas. I'm like, thatsounds like my kind of party. So
we go over there, and her herdaughter's 10 years old.
So she and I like to sing PinkPony Club together. And other we
have other favorites, but thatwas our that's our grand finale,
(01:47):
Pink Pony Club. So Nice.
Jenna Udenberg (01:50):
The makeup. What about you? What's going on?
Tamara (01:54):
Oh, you know, just living the life of luxury. Been
really busy pruning in thevineyard. It's a lot of work,
and it's getting warmer here inMontana. So we need to get it
done before it gets too warm. SoI have scars and scratches.
(02:15):
And, yeah, I've just been doingthat and then lots of baseball
and track. So fun times. Yeah.No worries. Mhmm.
Leisa (02:25):
Yeah. Baseball's one of those tricky ones be or even,
you know, track too. Baseball,it's like the practices and then
the games are so long versus,like, if they just sign up for,
like, like, Ariana would takegymnastics. It was one hour a
week. That's it.
Yeah. I know that gymnastics asif a person is more advanced, of
(02:45):
course, it can be a biggercommitment. But, oh, baseball,
soccer, time suck.
Tamara (02:51):
Yeah. And then football. Yeah. It's been a lot. So very
busy.
He has a game this evening. He'spitching, so very exciting.
We're at the official stadium.And then tomorrow, so just then
baseball week. But, anyways, allis good.
Leisa (03:08):
Okay. Well, I'm sure that's what you get for having a
son so talented. And daughters,all all your daughters are
talented too. But, yeah, Everettreally, he's kinda just good at
everything. So shout outEverett.
You're listening, Everett, letyour mom know. Give her a big
hug. This was your test.Probably. Anyway, I'm so excited
(03:33):
to have our guests today.
We've got Jamie and Jenna, Gemmaand Jamie. Jamie, welcome to our
show. Hello. There.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (03:42):
Thank you for having us.
Leisa (03:44):
Yes. We're excited to hear your story. And I know
Jamie or excuse me, Jenna wasthe one who reached out to me
first. So, Jenna, why don't yougive us a little insight on how
you and Jamie met? And thenwe're gonna hear Jamie's
perspective.
Jenna Udenberg (03:59):
Yeah. So I met Jamie in a physical therapy
pool. I was like about 12 yearsold. We had the same physical
therapist at our local rehabcenter. And she's like, oh, you
have juvenile arthritis.
You need to meet this other girlwho also has juvenile arthritis.
And she's four years older thanyou. So maybe you guys will hit
(04:22):
it off. And so yeah. The thetroublesome duo of, like,
ganging up on her and and doingall the things inspired
greatness.
So we're still in touch with hertoday. It's been a great long
story of of the three of us. Butevery time she sees us together
or hears that we're workingtogether or having recent
shenanigans, she's like, whatdid I create all those years
(04:44):
ago? So Oh my god. Good things.
Leisa (04:47):
Oh, okay. So I have so many questions. But, Jamie, why
don't you tell us your versionof the story?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (04:53):
Oh, well, it's not very different. But I I
do remember so, the the physicaltherapist, I remember her
saying, okay. So, got this otherperson that we're gonna do, you
know, kinda PT at the same time,but I think it's gonna work. And
pool therapy, you know,especially when we were younger
(05:14):
was definitely the the thing todo. It was super helpful.
And the pool that we were usingat the time was a small pool. It
was at Saint Scholastica, kindof Benedictine Center in Duluth,
and it was a very interestingspot in its, you know, in
(05:35):
itself. So you kinda see more, Iwould say, older people at the
time. And so having kindayounger kids like us around was,
I think, unique. But I rememberJanelle and I kinda like she
said, it was easy to kinda spinwhat is usually like physical
(05:59):
torture.
It's what we call physicaltherapy. Spin it around and
start torturing the PT herself.
Leisa (06:09):
Oh my god. So what prompted you to become I I get
that you're in the same spaceand you kinda have a
commonality, but that doesn'talways mean that you become
friends. Right? So what was itabout each of each other's
personalities that that made itbecome a friendship? Jenna, do
you wanna take that one?
Jenna Udenberg (06:32):
Yeah. I mean, even though I was the same age
as Jamie's younger sister,because she's the oldest in the
family and I'm the youngest inmine, so I think that kind of
just played naturally into ourbirth orders. But Jamie was
always great. If Lisa, our PT,was torturing us and I was, you
know, in a lot of pain orstarting to cry, Jamie would be
(06:53):
like, look at me over here. Lookat me over here.
Come and stretch me or come andtorture me. And then I'd go and
cry over in the corner. Thenafter I was good, then it'd be
like, hey, Lisa. Now I'm free.Like, come torture me.
And I always remember so we hadthese clams that you would throw
that she would throw to thebottom of the pool. And if you
got the clam that had a certaincolor pearl in it, then you'd
(07:14):
get a sucker at the end. Well,I'm sure Jamie at 16 really
didn't care about the sucker,but me as a 12 year old was
like, hot diggity. I'm gonna getthat clam. So then Lisa would
have to stand on the clam.
So then I'd, like, dive down andtickle her feet so I could get
Jamie's clam. So I was kindalike the little the little
shtink, for lack of betterwords. And but it was all it was
(07:36):
all good and all good fun. And Ithink Jamie and I have great
similar personalities and yetopposing as well. I was always
the more scaredy cat,introverted, hiding away type
personality, much more of likethe the wallflower if we were to
be at a at a party or dance oranything like that.
(07:56):
Where Jamie is just more likethat cool, calm, collected,
ready to do all the things andand more of an extroverted
personality when we're together.So it was great complementary
personalities, think.
Leisa (08:10):
How about you, Jamie? What's your perspective on how
you started to become friendsjust beyond having something in
common?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (08:19):
We took them as a big challenge. So now
that you remind me, Jenna, aboutthe clean homes, I remember
being so annoyed because I hadbeen doing this for a long time.
You know what I mean? Like, thiswas okay by the time I met Jenna
for for me. And so I think maybeit was like the the bigger kid
in the pool, and now Jenna comesalong with a lot of spunk and a
(08:42):
little sister attitude.
And I was like, who is thisgirl? And why is she so
annoying? I'm gonna work thismuch harder to show her, you
know, that I no. I'm still thebig kid in the pool. But I think
I think along with that, likeJenna said, just, naturally
(09:10):
taking it, Jenelle, maybe as alittle sister, but also I don't
know.
Like, you know, when you havethose commonalities, you also
become kind of a safe space foreach other. And in that, I think
a friendship really grows justnaturally out of that.
Tamara (09:33):
And you two work together. Is that correct? Do
you have a nonprofitorganization together?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (09:39):
We do. Yeah. So Jenna founded Above and
Beyond with you, and it is it'sstill a small a small nonprofit.
We're we're brand new. So stillbuilding up, and sewing on the
on the board.
And
Tamara (09:59):
what what is what do you guys do? What does the
organization represent?
Jenna Udenberg (10:06):
Yeah. So sure. So our goal is to increase
accessibility and inclusion onthe North Shore and beyond. So
we you know, being that Jamieand I are both manual wheelchair
users, you know, we stickprimarily in the wheelhouse, ba
dum bum ching, mobilitydisabilities and mobility aids.
But we really strive to be aconduit for other aspects of
(10:27):
disability community and cultureand trying to be, really
networked and connected.
So that way when differentagencies or organizations or
businesses or individuals cometo us and ask about either
increasing accessibility withintheir communities or within
their organizations, you know,what can that look like? That
we're, you know, very honest of,you know, we're we're about
(10:50):
mobility disabilities. That'sour wheelhouse, but we're
willing to, you know, interactand bring in other partners that
can help with other aspects ofdisability community and
culture. And it was great. Youknow?
Yeah. I'm I'm the founder of itfor the first year. Was the
president, but, you know, tryingto build something, trying to do
the work, and trying to developyour own leadership skills and
your own other soft skills init, was like, I can't be the
(11:14):
president and the leader and thefounder and the doer. And so
it's just a great natural thingto be like, alright, James. How
do you feel about being apresident and, like, doing the
thing?
So it's been great. You know? Wespend way more hours together
than we probably ever have inour whole friendship around
this, around the work, aroundwhatever. So even last night,
we're like, maybe we need toschedule a Zoom call to, like,
(11:36):
do the whole friend thing for awhile before going on the BFF
podcast. So, yeah, so it'sreally great to to share this
work together.
And then, you know, even thoughwe have the same diagnosis, our
our journey through that wasvery different. You know, Jamie
was diagnosed at age two. I wasdiagnosed at age seven. And so
even though there's some severalcommonalities, there's a lot of
(12:00):
difference. And so Jamie wasalways the adventurer going to
summer camps that, you know,camp courage down in the cities
and and doing those kinds ofthings.
And I was really more of therural country bumpkin. I don't I
don't know these things. I'mscared of those things. I have
anxiety over those things beforethose were terms we used every
day. But then as my medicalworld changed, then I became
(12:23):
more of like the medicalsurgical adventurer person.
And then I would say when Ibecame a Blandin community
leader and a twenty twenty Bushfellow, that's really when
things really opened up for me,and I felt more of, like, the
Jamie personality. So it's justbeen great of, you know, leaning
on each other throughout thewhole journey, but then also,
(12:45):
like, seeing our personalitiesand seeing different things
change and morph as you spendmore time with your BFF.
Leisa (12:54):
I was gonna ask kind of backtracking to the I just have
a question about the pooltherapy. You said, oh, that's
something they used to use along time ago. Is that something
they still use for, juvenile,arthritic individuals?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (13:10):
I I would say yes. So for for youth and
adults, I think, with rheumatoidarthritis, I think pool therapy.
You know? Pool therapy usuallymeans that the pool is a
therapeutic pool, and then thewater is warmer than your
typical, like, pool. And soalong with that, just being in
(13:31):
water, you know, there's thatbuoyancy.
You're not fighting gravity. Soit's really cool.
Leisa (13:37):
Did you find that it was helpful?
Jaime Head-MacAlister: Absolutely. Yes. (13:40):
undefined
Leisa (13:42):
So I I was like, I know I know physical therapy can be,
like you said, the physicaltorture, but I'm like, well and
if there's a payoff, yay. Ithink that's a good thing.
Right? Okay. Cool.
And then I was gonna ask, howdid you go from when you met and
started becoming friends, howdid it evolve into a best
(14:06):
friendship? Jamie, do you wannakick us off for that?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (14:12):
So I think, you know, like Jenna had
talked about, I was a little bitmore on the adventurous side as
far as outdoors and sports andall that good stuff. But I was
able to kinda pull Jenna alongwith me, and Jenna got into
(14:33):
wheelchair basketball with me.And and so we had some
adventures around that. We wentto, like, a wheelchair
basketball camp tournament,actually, for a weekend. And I
think it just kind of grew fromthere.
You know, we started becomingand it wasn't at that point,
(14:56):
then it wasn't all about, oh,we're just kinda sharing PT
time, but we're getting to knoweach other outside of physical
therapy. Right? So I starteddoing wheelchair basketball
together, and then, you know,just kinda your typical things
that you do as teenagers. Right?Go to movies together.
(15:17):
And then, but just kind of we Ifeel like we're in just a
constant circle. Right? Wherewe're kind of following each
other around a little bit. Notall the time. For sure, not all
the time, but in some ways.
So we attended the same college.So as I was kind of leaving
college, Jenna was startingcollege. And then we actually
(15:38):
ended up getting an apartmenttogether once I was done with
college for a little bit. So itjust kinda kept evolving. That's
like that over time.
Leisa (15:52):
Beautiful. What about you, Jenna? When did you start
to feel like it was evolvinginto a best friendship?
Jenna Udenberg (15:58):
Yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of our
formative memories are aroundwheelchair basketball for sure.
Jamie was always such a championof disability culture and
community. And so eventually inthat space, you know, like,
yeah, she took me under her wingand then it was just like,
alright, Jenna, now you gotta goand have conversations with
someone else. And I'm not gonnathis is your practice to to not
(16:20):
be over by me. Go go and do athing.
And so that that was reallygreat. And oh, I had a great
one. I know it just went away.Maybe it'll come back. But,
yeah, like Jamie said, you know,it just constantly evolved.
And, you know, Jamie's such agreat mentor type personality.
(16:45):
She's just a great, like,overall human being of just,
like, come as you are. Andhowever you're showing up today
is cool. And if you show updifferently tomorrow, cool. If
you show up the same tomorrow,cool.
And so just having thatrefreshing personality type, I
had never really been aroundthat before. Very inclusive,
very welcoming, very bringingeverybody in, making sure
(17:06):
everybody felt like they'rewelcomed. And this is back in,
like, the early nineties. Right?So our friendship developed on a
goldenrod colored phone in myparents' kitchen, and we'd be on
the phone for, like, hours onend, and they'd be like, oh,
she's on with Jamie.
And so Jamie herself even evenhas this, you know, shtick that
(17:27):
you'll say with my family like,hey, mom. You're a little light
on paying me to be Jenna'sfriend. Hey, mom. Like, you
know, what about all thesethings? And, you know, Jamie's
family is very similar with me.
We don't have necessarily thatsame shtick. But, you know, when
we see each other in communitywhen we're at medical, you know,
places or whatever, her dad'salways so cute.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (17:47):
That's Jamie's friend over there. I
think her name starts with a j,
Jenna Udenberg (17:53):
you know, because our family you know, our
parents are in their seventiesand eighties now. So but it's
just it's just awesome. And sovery interesting as we've
shared, even though we're indifferent birth order, there's
so many similarities within ourfamily. So that's also been
great fodder that, you know, ifour siblings are listening, too
bad. But, you know, like,there's just commonalities that
we can share and and commiseratewith.
(18:15):
So
Leisa (18:17):
I I know Tamara and I can relate to that. A lot of times I
mean, we both have siblings, andwe are closer to each other. You
know, we have a very sisterlycloseness that of goes beyond
friendship. Right? It soundslike that's
Jenna Udenberg (18:37):
what you guys have too. Yeah. And I think
especially for my family becausethey didn't always know how to
deal with my disability,especially when I was new. Was
like, maybe you need to callJamie. And then eventually Jamie
and I would team up and be like,my parents, maybe you need to
call and talk to Jamie'sparents.
Because it was, you know, verymutually, know, beneficial.
Leisa (18:58):
That's so cool.
Tamara (19:00):
Now that's great. You guys have been able to to
support one another, you know,not just in your friendship, but
just in, you know, having todeal with your disability and
how lucky. I don't I'm sure alot of people don't necessarily
get that. So that's amazing.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (19:18):
Yeah. And growing up, like Jenna said, in
the in the early nineties, like,you know, like, in the early
nineties, in Northern Minnesota,there there wasn't a lot of
people like us. And so you youknow, once you kind of find your
people, you you kinda sticktogether sometimes. And I have
(19:39):
to I always have to laughbecause, you know, while our our
families got to talk to eachother and I got to talk to
Jenna's parents and she talktalk to mine, I think at some
point, and Jenna's parents arelike, why are you letting Jenna
do this and take this trip toanother state? You're not a bad
(20:00):
influence because she'sadventuring out.
So, you know, it wasn't justabout leaning on each other as
far as, you know, learning tipsand tricks of having rheumatoid
arthritis, but also just learnabout, you know, as a human
being and get to kinda challengeeach other and make each other
explore the world a little bitmore.
Leisa (20:22):
And I was thinking about this kind of a weather thing
because Tamara and I grew up inAlaska. You guys are in, you
know, one's in Minnesota, one'sin Wisconsin. And and as we're
thinking about, you know,wheelchair accessibility, the
snow has must make a wholeanother level of difficulty with
snow and ice. Right? So how doyou combat that?
(20:45):
I just I I hadn't really thoughtabout that until our
conversation. Jenna, do youwanna tackle that one?
Jenna Udenberg (20:54):
Sure. It's like a whole another level of
Jumanji, let's be honest. Right?Yeah. So even on a good day, on
good weather or not winter, lifehas lots of unexpected barriers
and opportunities.
But, yeah, then you add winterand just lack of awareness of,
you know, business owners orindividuals that are homeowners,
(21:16):
you know, when it comes tosidewalks and curb cuts and
parking lots and even likesnowplow people. Like, I can't
count how many times this thiswinter up in Northern Minnesota,
and we didn't have a ton of snowas opposed to, like, two years
ago when we broke records and itwas a hot mess. A lot of the
snowplow companies were like,there's no way to put the snow.
Oh, guess what? We're gonna putit over here in accessible
(21:37):
parking cause that's at the endof the lot.
And, oh, a lot of people don'tuse that. So what does it
matter? Or they don't keep theaccess aisles really clear. So
for many years, I was kindastubborn, and I was like, I'm
gonna be a car user as long as Ican. I'm not gonna go to an
adapted modified van.
I'm gonna risk my lifetransferring from my manual
(21:58):
wheelchair into my car on icy,gross, nasty spaces. And then
once I got my van, I was like,what was I thinking? Why was I
stubborn? Transferring inside ina safe space is, like, so much
more, like, beneficial for me.But, yeah, it's just a hot mess.
And and then, again, a lot ofit, at least up here in the
(22:19):
communities that I live andthrive in, is is just lack of
awareness, less lack ofunderstanding. And then like you
said, once people think about itand then go, oh, well, if this
is hard for me as an ambulatoryperson, how much harder is it
for semi ambulatory or folksusing chairs or walkers or what
have you? So, yeah, it's everyseason brings different things.
(22:40):
And then the thing that I'mdealing with now that, yeah,
it's April when we're recording,but there's still, you know, all
the grits and all the sand andall that, and that's even, like,
more slippery for us. So nowit's like the education of,
like, when that season is done,you have to go and sweep because
that's also a liability and asafety issue for folks.
Tamara (23:01):
Oh, yeah. But I have a client who has she just got a
well, like, a van for her to awheelchair. And what was
shocking was how much insurancesfor for your vans. Like, it's
pretty crazy. So, yeah, I feelfor you on that.
(23:23):
That's hard. Well, so to kindawrap up, if you guys were
together and you were in thesame spot, Jamie, what would you
guys go do for fun?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (23:37):
So the first thing that comes to mind
is, you know, going out andgetting some really good Mexican
food, and spending hours justchatting because, hey, we can
get lost as I'm sure. You know,you and Lisa are the same, but
we can get lost chatting forhours and hours. I told my
(23:59):
husband, okay. I'm gonna get ona call with, and he's like,
okay. I'll see you tomorrow.
But so I think grabbing somesome good Mexican food and and
just chatting. Maybe headingdown like, if I was up, let's
say, in the Louvre, heading downto the lake, or few harbors
heading to the lake, becauseLake Superior is absolutely
(24:19):
gorgeous. If you've never beenup here, you should definitely
check it out. What do you think,Jenna?
Jenna Udenberg (24:27):
I would totally agree with that. I would also
add that we'd play some kind ofinteresting game and the
competitiveness in us would comeout whether it's Uno Flip or
some other interesting card orboard game. And I would say if
it was an overnight, we woulddefinitely be watching some kind
Polly Shorner movie reliving allthe things that created our
(24:48):
friendship and be laughing atour PT Lisa and texting her to
be like, yeah. So we're watchingson-in-law dot dot dot. So,
yeah, all the different insidejokes we'd be laughing.
Just like last night, two hourscheduled meeting, four and a
half hours later, my voice is alittle more raspy than it
normally would be for a podcast,but it's all good. So
Leisa (25:10):
Oh, I love that you still have fun together and can be
silly, but also be promoting areally powerful organization and
bringing more accessibility andunderstanding and inclusivity to
wheelchair accessibility and allthe mobility accessibility, all
those things. That's that'sreally cool that you're that
(25:31):
you're working together doingthat. I love I love that story.
So thank you so much for beingon our show, and besties, we'll
see you soon. Bye, everybody.
Tamara (25:40):
Bye.
Leisa (25:44):
Hey, Bestie. Thanks for listening. If you like this
episode, be sure to hit thatsubscribe button to get notified
of new episodes and check outcool Bestie gift ideas at
howImetmybff.com.
Tamara (25:54):
That's right. And also leave us a review. Those reviews
help us out a lot and are one ofthe best ways to support us.
Leisa (26:01):
Yes. And if you have a fun story about how you met your
b f f, send us an email atinfo@howImetmybff.com. We would
love to hear about it.
Tamara (26:09):
Definitely. And, hey, maybe we'll have you on our next
episode.
Leisa (26:14):
That would be awesome. Until next time.
Tamara (26:16):
Love you, BFFs.
Hey, besties. My name's Lisa.
Tamara (00:03):
And my name's Tamara, and we're BFFs.
Leisa (00:06):
Tamara and I met when we were about 12 years old growing
up in good old Fairbanks,Alaska.
Tamara (00:11):
And we've been best friends forever since.
Leisa (00:13):
That's right. And that's why we've decided to have some
fun, friendly conversations withthe bestest of best friends.
Tamara (00:18):
We'll talk about how we became best friends, our
experiences together, and haveother best friends on the show
to share how they met. Whoknows? You never
Leisa (00:27):
know when you'll meet your next BFF.
Tamara (00:30):
Now let's get into it, how I met my BFF.
Leisa (00:34):
Welcome to another episode of how I met my BFF. Hi,
Tamara.
Tamara (00:40):
Hey, Lisa. How's it going?
Leisa (00:42):
It's good. So last night, I had a karaoke party. Well, it
was at my friend's house, and Iknow that you have a karaoke
machine. I don't have a karaokemachine. But what was so funny
is that Mark, last night we gothome, he's like looking them up
online.
He's like, what do you thinkabout this karaoke machine? I
(01:02):
said, do not buy me a karaokemachine because if you do, I
will not get anything done.Because I will just be literally
singing my little heart out forall day long. I am so addicted
to it. It's us that we just keepit at someone else's house.
And we have my my girlfriend whohad the little it was a cupcake
(01:26):
karaoke margarita parties, flashflash party. Like, just come
over tonight. We're doingcupcakes, karaoke, and
margaritas. I'm like, thatsounds like my kind of party. So
we go over there, and her herdaughter's 10 years old.
So she and I like to sing PinkPony Club together. And other we
have other favorites, but thatwas our that's our grand finale,
(01:47):
Pink Pony Club. So Nice.
Jenna Udenberg (01:50):
The makeup. What about you? What's going on?
Tamara (01:54):
Oh, you know, just living the life of luxury. Been
really busy pruning in thevineyard. It's a lot of work,
and it's getting warmer here inMontana. So we need to get it
done before it gets too warm. SoI have scars and scratches.
(02:15):
And, yeah, I've just been doingthat and then lots of baseball
and track. So fun times. Yeah.No worries. Mhmm.
Leisa (02:25):
Yeah. Baseball's one of those tricky ones be or even,
you know, track too. Baseball,it's like the practices and then
the games are so long versus,like, if they just sign up for,
like, like, Ariana would takegymnastics. It was one hour a
week. That's it.
Yeah. I know that gymnastics asif a person is more advanced, of
(02:45):
course, it can be a biggercommitment. But, oh, baseball,
soccer, time suck.
Tamara (02:51):
Yeah. And then football. Yeah. It's been a lot. So very
busy.
He has a game this evening. He'spitching, so very exciting.
We're at the official stadium.And then tomorrow, so just then
baseball week. But, anyways, allis good.
Leisa (03:08):
Okay. Well, I'm sure that's what you get for having a
son so talented. And daughters,all all your daughters are
talented too. But, yeah, Everettreally, he's kinda just good at
everything. So shout outEverett.
You're listening, Everett, letyour mom know. Give her a big
hug. This was your test.Probably. Anyway, I'm so excited
(03:33):
to have our guests today.
We've got Jamie and Jenna, Gemmaand Jamie. Jamie, welcome to our
show. Hello. There.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (03:42):
Thank you for having us.
Leisa (03:44):
Yes. We're excited to hear your story. And I know
Jamie or excuse me, Jenna wasthe one who reached out to me
first. So, Jenna, why don't yougive us a little insight on how
you and Jamie met? And thenwe're gonna hear Jamie's
perspective.
Jenna Udenberg (03:59):
Yeah. So I met Jamie in a physical therapy
pool. I was like about 12 yearsold. We had the same physical
therapist at our local rehabcenter. And she's like, oh, you
have juvenile arthritis.
You need to meet this other girlwho also has juvenile arthritis.
And she's four years older thanyou. So maybe you guys will hit
(04:22):
it off. And so yeah. The thetroublesome duo of, like,
ganging up on her and and doingall the things inspired
greatness.
So we're still in touch with hertoday. It's been a great long
story of of the three of us. Butevery time she sees us together
or hears that we're workingtogether or having recent
shenanigans, she's like, whatdid I create all those years
(04:44):
ago? So Oh my god. Good things.
Leisa (04:47):
Oh, okay. So I have so many questions. But, Jamie, why
don't you tell us your versionof the story?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (04:53):
Oh, well, it's not very different. But I I
do remember so, the the physicaltherapist, I remember her
saying, okay. So, got this otherperson that we're gonna do, you
know, kinda PT at the same time,but I think it's gonna work. And
pool therapy, you know,especially when we were younger
(05:14):
was definitely the the thing todo. It was super helpful.
And the pool that we were usingat the time was a small pool. It
was at Saint Scholastica, kindof Benedictine Center in Duluth,
and it was a very interestingspot in its, you know, in
(05:35):
itself. So you kinda see more, Iwould say, older people at the
time. And so having kindayounger kids like us around was,
I think, unique. But I rememberJanelle and I kinda like she
said, it was easy to kinda spinwhat is usually like physical
(05:59):
torture.
It's what we call physicaltherapy. Spin it around and
start torturing the PT herself.
Leisa (06:09):
Oh my god. So what prompted you to become I I get
that you're in the same spaceand you kinda have a
commonality, but that doesn'talways mean that you become
friends. Right? So what was itabout each of each other's
personalities that that made itbecome a friendship? Jenna, do
you wanna take that one?
Jenna Udenberg (06:32):
Yeah. I mean, even though I was the same age
as Jamie's younger sister,because she's the oldest in the
family and I'm the youngest inmine, so I think that kind of
just played naturally into ourbirth orders. But Jamie was
always great. If Lisa, our PT,was torturing us and I was, you
know, in a lot of pain orstarting to cry, Jamie would be
(06:53):
like, look at me over here. Lookat me over here.
Come and stretch me or come andtorture me. And then I'd go and
cry over in the corner. Thenafter I was good, then it'd be
like, hey, Lisa. Now I'm free.Like, come torture me.
And I always remember so we hadthese clams that you would throw
that she would throw to thebottom of the pool. And if you
got the clam that had a certaincolor pearl in it, then you'd
(07:14):
get a sucker at the end. Well,I'm sure Jamie at 16 really
didn't care about the sucker,but me as a 12 year old was
like, hot diggity. I'm gonna getthat clam. So then Lisa would
have to stand on the clam.
So then I'd, like, dive down andtickle her feet so I could get
Jamie's clam. So I was kindalike the little the little
shtink, for lack of betterwords. And but it was all it was
(07:36):
all good and all good fun. And Ithink Jamie and I have great
similar personalities and yetopposing as well. I was always
the more scaredy cat,introverted, hiding away type
personality, much more of likethe the wallflower if we were to
be at a at a party or dance oranything like that.
(07:56):
Where Jamie is just more likethat cool, calm, collected,
ready to do all the things andand more of an extroverted
personality when we're together.So it was great complementary
personalities, think.
Leisa (08:10):
How about you, Jamie? What's your perspective on how
you started to become friendsjust beyond having something in
common?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (08:19):
We took them as a big challenge. So now
that you remind me, Jenna, aboutthe clean homes, I remember
being so annoyed because I hadbeen doing this for a long time.
You know what I mean? Like, thiswas okay by the time I met Jenna
for for me. And so I think maybeit was like the the bigger kid
in the pool, and now Jenna comesalong with a lot of spunk and a
(08:42):
little sister attitude.
And I was like, who is thisgirl? And why is she so
annoying? I'm gonna work thismuch harder to show her, you
know, that I no. I'm still thebig kid in the pool. But I think
I think along with that, likeJenna said, just, naturally
(09:10):
taking it, Jenelle, maybe as alittle sister, but also I don't
know.
Like, you know, when you havethose commonalities, you also
become kind of a safe space foreach other. And in that, I think
a friendship really grows justnaturally out of that.
Tamara (09:33):
And you two work together. Is that correct? Do
you have a nonprofitorganization together?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (09:39):
We do. Yeah. So Jenna founded Above and
Beyond with you, and it is it'sstill a small a small nonprofit.
We're we're brand new. So stillbuilding up, and sewing on the
on the board.
And
Tamara (09:59):
what what is what do you guys do? What does the
organization represent?
Jenna Udenberg (10:06):
Yeah. So sure. So our goal is to increase
accessibility and inclusion onthe North Shore and beyond. So
we you know, being that Jamieand I are both manual wheelchair
users, you know, we stickprimarily in the wheelhouse, ba
dum bum ching, mobilitydisabilities and mobility aids.
But we really strive to be aconduit for other aspects of
(10:27):
disability community and cultureand trying to be, really
networked and connected.
So that way when differentagencies or organizations or
businesses or individuals cometo us and ask about either
increasing accessibility withintheir communities or within
their organizations, you know,what can that look like? That
we're, you know, very honest of,you know, we're we're about
(10:50):
mobility disabilities. That'sour wheelhouse, but we're
willing to, you know, interactand bring in other partners that
can help with other aspects ofdisability community and
culture. And it was great. Youknow?
Yeah. I'm I'm the founder of itfor the first year. Was the
president, but, you know, tryingto build something, trying to do
the work, and trying to developyour own leadership skills and
your own other soft skills init, was like, I can't be the
(11:14):
president and the leader and thefounder and the doer. And so
it's just a great natural thingto be like, alright, James. How
do you feel about being apresident and, like, doing the
thing?
So it's been great. You know? Wespend way more hours together
than we probably ever have inour whole friendship around
this, around the work, aroundwhatever. So even last night,
we're like, maybe we need toschedule a Zoom call to, like,
(11:36):
do the whole friend thing for awhile before going on the BFF
podcast. So, yeah, so it'sreally great to to share this
work together.
And then, you know, even thoughwe have the same diagnosis, our
our journey through that wasvery different. You know, Jamie
was diagnosed at age two. I wasdiagnosed at age seven. And so
even though there's some severalcommonalities, there's a lot of
(12:00):
difference. And so Jamie wasalways the adventurer going to
summer camps that, you know,camp courage down in the cities
and and doing those kinds ofthings.
And I was really more of therural country bumpkin. I don't I
don't know these things. I'mscared of those things. I have
anxiety over those things beforethose were terms we used every
day. But then as my medicalworld changed, then I became
(12:23):
more of like the medicalsurgical adventurer person.
And then I would say when Ibecame a Blandin community
leader and a twenty twenty Bushfellow, that's really when
things really opened up for me,and I felt more of, like, the
Jamie personality. So it's justbeen great of, you know, leaning
on each other throughout thewhole journey, but then also,
(12:45):
like, seeing our personalitiesand seeing different things
change and morph as you spendmore time with your BFF.
Leisa (12:54):
I was gonna ask kind of backtracking to the I just have
a question about the pooltherapy. You said, oh, that's
something they used to use along time ago. Is that something
they still use for, juvenile,arthritic individuals?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (13:10):
I I would say yes. So for for youth and
adults, I think, with rheumatoidarthritis, I think pool therapy.
You know? Pool therapy usuallymeans that the pool is a
therapeutic pool, and then thewater is warmer than your
typical, like, pool. And soalong with that, just being in
(13:31):
water, you know, there's thatbuoyancy.
You're not fighting gravity. Soit's really cool.
Leisa (13:37):
Did you find that it was helpful?
Jaime Head-MacAlister: Absolutely. Yes. (13:40):
undefined
Leisa (13:42):
So I I was like, I know I know physical therapy can be,
like you said, the physicaltorture, but I'm like, well and
if there's a payoff, yay. Ithink that's a good thing.
Right? Okay. Cool.
And then I was gonna ask, howdid you go from when you met and
started becoming friends, howdid it evolve into a best
(14:06):
friendship? Jamie, do you wannakick us off for that?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (14:12):
So I think, you know, like Jenna had
talked about, I was a little bitmore on the adventurous side as
far as outdoors and sports andall that good stuff. But I was
able to kinda pull Jenna alongwith me, and Jenna got into
(14:33):
wheelchair basketball with me.And and so we had some
adventures around that. We wentto, like, a wheelchair
basketball camp tournament,actually, for a weekend. And I
think it just kind of grew fromthere.
You know, we started becomingand it wasn't at that point,
(14:56):
then it wasn't all about, oh,we're just kinda sharing PT
time, but we're getting to knoweach other outside of physical
therapy. Right? So I starteddoing wheelchair basketball
together, and then, you know,just kinda your typical things
that you do as teenagers. Right?Go to movies together.
(15:17):
And then, but just kind of we Ifeel like we're in just a
constant circle. Right? Wherewe're kind of following each
other around a little bit. Notall the time. For sure, not all
the time, but in some ways.
So we attended the same college.So as I was kind of leaving
college, Jenna was startingcollege. And then we actually
(15:38):
ended up getting an apartmenttogether once I was done with
college for a little bit. So itjust kinda kept evolving. That's
like that over time.
Leisa (15:52):
Beautiful. What about you, Jenna? When did you start
to feel like it was evolvinginto a best friendship?
Jenna Udenberg (15:58):
Yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of our
formative memories are aroundwheelchair basketball for sure.
Jamie was always such a championof disability culture and
community. And so eventually inthat space, you know, like,
yeah, she took me under her wingand then it was just like,
alright, Jenna, now you gotta goand have conversations with
someone else. And I'm not gonnathis is your practice to to not
(16:20):
be over by me. Go go and do athing.
And so that that was reallygreat. And oh, I had a great
one. I know it just went away.Maybe it'll come back. But,
yeah, like Jamie said, you know,it just constantly evolved.
And, you know, Jamie's such agreat mentor type personality.
(16:45):
She's just a great, like,overall human being of just,
like, come as you are. Andhowever you're showing up today
is cool. And if you show updifferently tomorrow, cool. If
you show up the same tomorrow,cool.
And so just having thatrefreshing personality type, I
had never really been aroundthat before. Very inclusive,
very welcoming, very bringingeverybody in, making sure
(17:06):
everybody felt like they'rewelcomed. And this is back in,
like, the early nineties. Right?So our friendship developed on a
goldenrod colored phone in myparents' kitchen, and we'd be on
the phone for, like, hours onend, and they'd be like, oh,
she's on with Jamie.
And so Jamie herself even evenhas this, you know, shtick that
(17:27):
you'll say with my family like,hey, mom. You're a little light
on paying me to be Jenna'sfriend. Hey, mom. Like, you
know, what about all thesethings? And, you know, Jamie's
family is very similar with me.
We don't have necessarily thatsame shtick. But, you know, when
we see each other in communitywhen we're at medical, you know,
places or whatever, her dad'salways so cute.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (17:47):
That's Jamie's friend over there. I
think her name starts with a j,
Jenna Udenberg (17:53):
you know, because our family you know, our
parents are in their seventiesand eighties now. So but it's
just it's just awesome. And sovery interesting as we've
shared, even though we're indifferent birth order, there's
so many similarities within ourfamily. So that's also been
great fodder that, you know, ifour siblings are listening, too
bad. But, you know, like,there's just commonalities that
we can share and and commiseratewith.
(18:15):
So
Leisa (18:17):
I I know Tamara and I can relate to that. A lot of times I
mean, we both have siblings, andwe are closer to each other. You
know, we have a very sisterlycloseness that of goes beyond
friendship. Right? It soundslike that's
Jenna Udenberg (18:37):
what you guys have too. Yeah. And I think
especially for my family becausethey didn't always know how to
deal with my disability,especially when I was new. Was
like, maybe you need to callJamie. And then eventually Jamie
and I would team up and be like,my parents, maybe you need to
call and talk to Jamie'sparents.
Because it was, you know, verymutually, know, beneficial.
Leisa (18:58):
That's so cool.
Tamara (19:00):
Now that's great. You guys have been able to to
support one another, you know,not just in your friendship, but
just in, you know, having todeal with your disability and
how lucky. I don't I'm sure alot of people don't necessarily
get that. So that's amazing.
Jaime Head-MacAlister (19:18):
Yeah. And growing up, like Jenna said, in
the in the early nineties, like,you know, like, in the early
nineties, in Northern Minnesota,there there wasn't a lot of
people like us. And so you youknow, once you kind of find your
people, you you kinda sticktogether sometimes. And I have
(19:39):
to I always have to laughbecause, you know, while our our
families got to talk to eachother and I got to talk to
Jenna's parents and she talktalk to mine, I think at some
point, and Jenna's parents arelike, why are you letting Jenna
do this and take this trip toanother state? You're not a bad
(20:00):
influence because she'sadventuring out.
So, you know, it wasn't justabout leaning on each other as
far as, you know, learning tipsand tricks of having rheumatoid
arthritis, but also just learnabout, you know, as a human
being and get to kinda challengeeach other and make each other
explore the world a little bitmore.
Leisa (20:22):
And I was thinking about this kind of a weather thing
because Tamara and I grew up inAlaska. You guys are in, you
know, one's in Minnesota, one'sin Wisconsin. And and as we're
thinking about, you know,wheelchair accessibility, the
snow has must make a wholeanother level of difficulty with
snow and ice. Right? So how doyou combat that?
(20:45):
I just I I hadn't really thoughtabout that until our
conversation. Jenna, do youwanna tackle that one?
Jenna Udenberg (20:54):
Sure. It's like a whole another level of
Jumanji, let's be honest. Right?Yeah. So even on a good day, on
good weather or not winter, lifehas lots of unexpected barriers
and opportunities.
But, yeah, then you add winterand just lack of awareness of,
you know, business owners orindividuals that are homeowners,
(21:16):
you know, when it comes tosidewalks and curb cuts and
parking lots and even likesnowplow people. Like, I can't
count how many times this thiswinter up in Northern Minnesota,
and we didn't have a ton of snowas opposed to, like, two years
ago when we broke records and itwas a hot mess. A lot of the
snowplow companies were like,there's no way to put the snow.
Oh, guess what? We're gonna putit over here in accessible
(21:37):
parking cause that's at the endof the lot.
And, oh, a lot of people don'tuse that. So what does it
matter? Or they don't keep theaccess aisles really clear. So
for many years, I was kindastubborn, and I was like, I'm
gonna be a car user as long as Ican. I'm not gonna go to an
adapted modified van.
I'm gonna risk my lifetransferring from my manual
(21:58):
wheelchair into my car on icy,gross, nasty spaces. And then
once I got my van, I was like,what was I thinking? Why was I
stubborn? Transferring inside ina safe space is, like, so much
more, like, beneficial for me.But, yeah, it's just a hot mess.
And and then, again, a lot ofit, at least up here in the
(22:19):
communities that I live andthrive in, is is just lack of
awareness, less lack ofunderstanding. And then like you
said, once people think about itand then go, oh, well, if this
is hard for me as an ambulatoryperson, how much harder is it
for semi ambulatory or folksusing chairs or walkers or what
have you? So, yeah, it's everyseason brings different things.
(22:40):
And then the thing that I'mdealing with now that, yeah,
it's April when we're recording,but there's still, you know, all
the grits and all the sand andall that, and that's even, like,
more slippery for us. So nowit's like the education of,
like, when that season is done,you have to go and sweep because
that's also a liability and asafety issue for folks.
Tamara (23:01):
Oh, yeah. But I have a client who has she just got a
well, like, a van for her to awheelchair. And what was
shocking was how much insurancesfor for your vans. Like, it's
pretty crazy. So, yeah, I feelfor you on that.
(23:23):
That's hard. Well, so to kindawrap up, if you guys were
together and you were in thesame spot, Jamie, what would you
guys go do for fun?
Jaime Head-MacAlister (23:37):
So the first thing that comes to mind
is, you know, going out andgetting some really good Mexican
food, and spending hours justchatting because, hey, we can
get lost as I'm sure. You know,you and Lisa are the same, but
we can get lost chatting forhours and hours. I told my
(23:59):
husband, okay. I'm gonna get ona call with, and he's like,
okay. I'll see you tomorrow.
But so I think grabbing somesome good Mexican food and and
just chatting. Maybe headingdown like, if I was up, let's
say, in the Louvre, heading downto the lake, or few harbors
heading to the lake, becauseLake Superior is absolutely
(24:19):
gorgeous. If you've never beenup here, you should definitely
check it out. What do you think,Jenna?
Jenna Udenberg (24:27):
I would totally agree with that. I would also
add that we'd play some kind ofinteresting game and the
competitiveness in us would comeout whether it's Uno Flip or
some other interesting card orboard game. And I would say if
it was an overnight, we woulddefinitely be watching some kind
Polly Shorner movie reliving allthe things that created our
(24:48):
friendship and be laughing atour PT Lisa and texting her to
be like, yeah. So we're watchingson-in-law dot dot dot. So,
yeah, all the different insidejokes we'd be laughing.
Just like last night, two hourscheduled meeting, four and a
half hours later, my voice is alittle more raspy than it
normally would be for a podcast,but it's all good. So
Leisa (25:10):
Oh, I love that you still have fun together and can be
silly, but also be promoting areally powerful organization and
bringing more accessibility andunderstanding and inclusivity to
wheelchair accessibility and allthe mobility accessibility, all
those things. That's that'sreally cool that you're that
(25:31):
you're working together doingthat. I love I love that story.
So thank you so much for beingon our show, and besties, we'll
see you soon. Bye, everybody.
Tamara (25:40):
Bye.
Leisa (25:44):
Hey, Bestie. Thanks for listening. If you like this
episode, be sure to hit thatsubscribe button to get notified
of new episodes and check outcool Bestie gift ideas at
howImetmybff.com.
Tamara (25:54):
That's right. And also leave us a review. Those reviews
help us out a lot and are one ofthe best ways to support us.
Leisa (26:01):
Yes. And if you have a fun story about how you met your
b f f, send us an email atinfo@howImetmybff.com. We would
love to hear about it.
Tamara (26:09):
Definitely. And, hey, maybe we'll have you on our next
episode.
Leisa (26:14):
That would be awesome. Until next time.
Tamara (26:16):
Love you, BFFs.
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