November 25, 2025 • 28 mins
Lighting Designer Career
Go behind the scenes of Broadway with four-time Tony Award–winning Lighting Designer Kevin Adams. He breaks down what a theatre lighting designer actually does, the skills you need to get started, and the unexpected twists of his career path.
The jaw-dropper? Adams reveals how Broadway designers really make their big money—including income streams, payment structures, union and more.
Perfect for anyone curious about Broadway careers, creative jobs, and how much you can make in the performing arts.
Kevin's website - https://www.ambermylar.com/index.html
Want us to cover a specific job? Shoot us an email!
Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly
royalty, and if the show doesreally well, that's where you
make some money.
But then, hold on, it getsbetter.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
And it gets better indeed.
Hi, and welcome back to How MuchCan I Make?
This week we're stepping intothe spotlight, literally, with
one of the masters behind themagic of lighting.
Our guest is a four-time TonyAward winner, Kevin Adams.
He's a lighting designer whosework has illuminated Broadway,
Las Vegas, Opera, and many otherproductions.
(00:35):
So let's find out from Kevinwhat does it take to become an
award-winning lighting designer?
So, Kevin, first of all, thankyou so much for willing to do
that.
Nice to be here today.
Thank you.
Let's start by telling us howdid you get into lighting
design?
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
I really wanted to be a performer.
Like lots of young performers, Iwould do little puppet shows.
In high school, I was in playsand musicals.
After a really bad audition forthe Diary of Anne Frank, I had a
high school teacher who verygently guided me into set
design.
He he suggested I might want tobe the set designer for the
(01:14):
diary of Anne Frank.
I remember thinking, like,what's that?
And he explained it.
And then I just like I just tookto that so quickly.
And then I went to theUniversity of Texas in Austin
and got a BFA in set design.
Never studied lighting, had nointerest in lighting, didn't
notice the lighting.
I was just like really ambitiousand dedicated to set design.
(01:39):
And then I went to CaliforniaInstitute of the Arts and I went
there to study more set design,but they also taught production
design for film.
MTV premiered in late 1981, andin 84 it was still
round-the-clock, you know, musicshorts, which was like thrilling
at the time.
And I thought, like, oh, this issomething I want to be a part
(02:00):
of.
So I studied production designfor film, didn't study lighting,
had zero interest in lighting.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
It was a two-year program at an art school, and it
cost so little at the time.
And moved into Hollywood.
I worked in film a lot.
I was a dresser, props dresser,set dresser, which I really
loved.
Built scenery, but I was an artdirector.
I was a production designer.
I worked on lots of likehigh-end commercials like Bose
(02:30):
Speakers and Apple and lots ofbeer like Budweiser and
Budweiser Light.
And and then, because there'sstill lighting to come.
Because you said you weretotally not interested in
lighting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I saw the work of fineartists that use light in their
work at various museums.
I saw that work a lot.
(02:50):
New work and old work.
And I I saw that I could designa space around these things that
I found in hardware stores,light bulbs and fluorescent
tubes that could make light andturn on and off very quickly and
make a new space.
And I started lighting my ownlittle sets, and immediately the
phone started ringing.
With these really well-known,you know, in the late 80s and
(03:12):
early 90s, there was a hugeperformance art scene in this
country.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Well, uh Rachel Rosenthal, this really
interesting lady, called me.
This she had been performing,she was an older lady who shaved
her head.
And I started working with her,lighting her shows, and
eventually we'd had fivedifferent shows that we would
do.
And John Fleck was one of theNEA four, and he was my first LA
boyfriend.
I started lighting his work anddoing little sets for him.
(03:39):
And then like well-knowndirectors would call me.
But all these people would saythe same thing.
They'd say, Hey, I saw that showyou did.
That's how I see my work.
Do you want to come light mywork?
And I'd say, like, I am not alighting designer at all.
Like I did I did that littleshow or two, and I'm a trained
set designer.
I know how to make shows, andbut I don't know anything about
(04:01):
lighting.
And they all said, you knowwhat?
That's okay.
Come try this.
And if it works, that's great.
And if it doesn't, it's no bigdeal.
Which was like really hard tosay no to, you know?
Because these people were likemaking really interesting work
and they were all really wellknown.
So I just started lightinglittle shows, and each show got
(04:22):
bigger, so I was learning abouttheatrical lighting at the same
time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
Do you prefer working on live shows or film?
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Once I became a lighting designer, I lit a music
video when I lived in LA, andthat was shot on film with this
Janet Jackson music video, butthat was for film, and I did not
understand how film capturedlight at all.
I had I had a lot of help fromthe DP and the uh director.
(04:50):
Now that film is digital, ourcameras are digital, and the
cameras mostly see what the ICs.
I've lit some things in the lastfew years, like I lit part of
that Mildred Pierce on HBO.
Really?
Yeah, I lit there's a wholeconcert thing in the middle of
it that I spent a lot of timeon.
It's minutes of the film, but Ispent two months on it.
(05:12):
That was digital, and so whatyou see with your eyes kind of
what the camera sees, and youcan have a monitor that's very
similar to what's exactly whatthe camera's gonna see.
That's much easier to light andbalance, and that I could
understand.
I like that no reviewer is gonnacome to it and review it, and I
I like that we don't go throughthat process that we go through
(05:33):
in New York City with theater,which is But I assume when the
lighting is right, the reviewerswill not even notice anything.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
It's only when the lighting is best.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
I think I've been mentioned in reviews, like I
mean maybe ten times.
I mean, shows that I want Toniesfor, like, they don't even
mention the lighting.
It's just like no, they justdon't talk about people don't
know how to talk about it, theydon't recognize it, they don't
see it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
They don't see it, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
So let's say a director or a producer comes to
you, a Broadway show, after fourTonies, I'm sure a lot of them
come to you.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
Somewhat, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
So they come to you with a play.
First of all, do you have tolive the play that you work on?
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
Do I have to like it?
Yeah.
You know, when you light a show,a musical, you have to hear
those songs a lot, like over andover and over and over and over.
And if I don't like the music,or if I don't get the music, I
would say no.
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
Once you design the lighting, do you have to be
there for every show?
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Or no, they pref you you're pretty much off the case.
Like once a show opens, you'redone.
Because they can't afford tohave programmers and they have
to pay everyone to work more.
So do you don't the plan is notto do pay anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Do you automate the lighting?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
So uh there's a programmer, which that is a
great field to get into.
Uh, there's a huge console, wecall it, which is a computer
that gets more complicated everyyear, and there's a person I
talk to, and they program thelighting into that console.
And then come opening night,that person's moved on to
another job.
(07:07):
I've moved on, my assistantsmoved on, my associates moved
on, and then there's a group ofpeople in the theater who
maintain the show, and there'sone guy who presses you just
press go.
The stage manager calls a cue,like Q1, go, Q2, go, Q3, go.
So it's like that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
The producer would come to you and offer you the
job or director?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
Uh all kinds of people.
Uh, it's usually a director willcall me and say, Hey, I'm doing
this thing, and I'll be like,I'll find out who else is
working on it and send me thescript.
So I'll read it and listen toit.
Sometimes it's an unfinishedscript.
Sometimes if it's an opera andit's new, you get nothing other
than like a topic because itdoesn't exist yet for an opera.
(07:51):
Uh and for musical, sometimesthere's a recording of like a
workshop.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
So you get the recording.
What do you do?
You start drawing what you'redoing.
I just listen to it.
I just sit and listen to it.
You get the atmosphere.
I mean, what inspires youusually?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Oh, just let what is the story?
What what's the music like?
What kind of music is it?
I do a lot of shows withelectric guitars.
I do a lot of like rock popshows.
I I mean everyone does now, butI had done I've done a lot of
like rock theater shows.
SPEAKER_01 (08:22):
Do you do special effects in those?
Like special effects with light?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
Oh, um, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I'm just
smoke, lots of smoke effects,lightning effects, fire effects,
like flame in a barrel, and likewhat else?
Lightning, you know, rain,things like that.
For swept away that I just didon Broadway, yeah.
I hung 30 industrial-sizedcarpet dryer fans around the
(08:47):
theater.
There's a huge there was a hugestorm in the show, and so we had
wind blowing through the entiretheater.
It was really neat.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
That's part of your job?
I would think that's part of theset design of it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
No, that though it's a it's an effect.
It's uh an special effect that Iknew how to do.
We had rain in the show too, butthat I didn't know how to do,
and we had I think scenery kindof took care of that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:10):
So when you did 30 fans, that must have been very
noisy, no?
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
It was, but it's a really loud storm, and the storm
covered it up.
But yeah, when you turned it on,it sounded like you were in a
huge HVAC system.
I mean it was quite a loudrumble.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Right.
I wouldn't see it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
You didn't hear it when the storm ran.
It was really amazing.
But you'd feel it.
The way it would and it stop itwould stop and start and stop
and start, and the whole theaterfelt it.
It was really neat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
Wow, that's an experience for an audience, I'm
sure.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Wind.
Did you ever work with a divaeither in opera or move or film
or theater that complained aboutthe lighting, she doesn't want
her wrinkles to show orsomething?
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
No, no, I mean you we are uh we are obligated to
especially take care of thewomen and make sure they look
good, and especially the olderwomen, they want to look good.
But you also like I go up andtalk to them often and tell them
how good they look and you'relooking great, and like they
want to know that you're takingcare of them, understandably.
And those those women who arelike solid show women like Patty
(10:13):
Lupone and Otta McDonald,they're like not divas at all.
They're amazing, they want tolook good, and if they didn't,
they would tell you, but uh youtake care of them and they're
amazing women.
I worked with Faye Donaway notlong ago, and that was um that
was an absolute trip.
unknown (10:30):
Oh why?
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Well, she's by far the most complicated person I've
ever worked with, but also waslike fascinating, you know.
Like everything I was hoping itwould be.
She was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Who was the greatest to work with from all the women?
SPEAKER_00 (10:46):
Oh, Patty's amazing.
I did a lot of things with PattyLapone and Audrey McDonald.
Those are they're all just likeshow folk.
Those are all just like Patty'slike a Jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk, you know?
They're great.
They show up early to work everyday and they work hard, and when
all the kids like leave onbreaks or lunch, they're like
(11:07):
still working and they'll stayafter and work.
And those are really, reallyhardworking, smart people.
And I love I they're you know,and they're show folk.
They're funny and weird andneurotic and you know,
everything that show folks are.
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
And from the guys, who was the most difficult to
work with?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Difficult?
Oh, uh pleasure.
I can't there were some likesuper lazy tenors who were just
like coasting through the show.
I they're just handsome guys whokind of coast.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
We we talked before that you don't know really about
pay because after four tonniesand eight nominations, right?
That's correct.
This is crazy, Kevin.
It's crazy.
So you're on a total differentechelon.
But if somebody starts, yes, canyou give us an idea what the
what can they make?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
I have no idea.
You know, I'm in a union.
We have minimums for designerson shows.
I don't make minimum.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Do you know what the minimum is?
Any idea?
SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
Well, it's plays and musicals are different.
A Broadway musical, there'sphases, there's like a musical
with one set, then there's amusical with two sets, and
there's multi-there's all thesedifferent categories.
Uh I think it's like 12 or 16 or17 or 18,000.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
For a show, for a week.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
Oh, for a show.
For a show.
Not for a week.
Uh then you get paid.
If you design a Broadway show,you get a weekly royalty.
If a show does well.
What do you mean weekly royalty?
Wait, I never heard about that.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's how we make money.
If a show runs like The LionKing or Book of Mormon or so
(12:44):
many other shows that are at myshows, if a show runs every week
that it runs, you get paid.
And then you get paid a minimum,which in the last few years is
like$500 or$750 or$1,000 a week.
And then on top of that, there'sthere's cycles of royalties.
So every four weeks they countup the box office, they deduct
(13:09):
the cost of running the show,then they divide what's left up.
Everyone has a percentage basedon their contract.
The writers, the director, thechoreographer, the designers,
the actors.
It's the creative side, whatthey call it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
But wait, I need to understand this because I never
heard about it before.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
So let's say you work on the Lion King.
You design the lighting.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
Let's say that.
Okay.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
And you designed everything.
Everything is now basically onhalf automated.
Maybe you have somebody thatpushed the you still get the
royalties.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
You still get the royalties.
But then, hold on, it getsbetter.
So then your production of TheLion King is running in New
York, and then it's running inLA and many other places.
Correct.
It tours around the U.S.
And the world.
One or two tours.
It's running in Dubai and SouthAfrica and fucking Shenzhen.
(14:02):
Right.
It's all over the world.
Yeah, yeah.
And you get paid for all ofthose.
Oh, wow.
Indeed.
That's a great job.
Indeed.
Not many, there aren't manydesigners on Broadway.
And there certainly aren't manypeople that have shows that run
like that.
Right.
But yes, that's where you canmake some money.
Like I have two tours out nowthat from shows I did on
(14:24):
Broadway that are sellingreally, really, really well.
And you make royalties.
Yeah, I make a lot of money.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Yeah.
That's a sweet thing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
So whoever worked on the Phantom of the Opera made it
didn't have to work again.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
She died, but correct.
She she was found dead in hertub.
But yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Really?
Oh my god, I feel guilty forlaughing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
The set designer.
I mean, you know, people die.
Uh and that show is a long timeago.
But yeah, I mean, yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they made they that wasa show from the 80s, so they
like people make so much morenow because of current
contracts.
But yeah, those people made alot of money.
They were making that was an 80scontract, so they were making
(15:07):
not near what people make now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Yeah, but they made it for 30 some years.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Yeah.
Oh, totally.
And that show ran everywhere andtoured everywhere.
Right.
Every day, every week you get acheck from all those.
Wow.
In D D.
That's great.
Okay.
Which, if you do a show inVegas, most shows in Vegas that
you design, they don't haveroyalties.
They just pay you one big lumpsum.
Some shows will give royalties,weekly royalties, but a lot of
(15:32):
shows will just pay you like achunk of money and then you open
the show and you're done.
I mean, a fee could be 50,000 or60 or 80,000 or you know,
something like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Wow.
Yeah.
It doesn't take that long todesign a show, right?
To design lighting for a show.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
I spend about a year in pre-production on a show.
I mean, that's not every day.
But it's if we start a show outof town, I start usually a year
before that.
We start in meetings, lots ofmeetings, then the set is
designed, then we do the plot.
So, you know, that's like fourhours here, four hours there,
four hours, you know, it's notevery day.
(16:09):
Correct.
And you're on the job.
You're doing other shows also.
Then rehearsal is like four orfive weeks.
I myself, this most people don'tdo this, but I go to like three
weeks of that rehearsal.
Then you're in the theater foruh tech.
So like in tech, uh come in at10, work 10 to 12, and we start
rehearsal on stage at 1, andthen we'll go to like a shorter
(16:30):
day is like 1 to 9, butsometimes we'll go to 1 to 10 or
1 to 10.30.
So I'm there like maybe 8 in themorning till 10 30 at night.
Wow.
But I have a lot of work to do,and I, you know, I can have a
lot to do.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
So do you actually hang the lights too?
Or you have people.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
No, I don't wouldn't I've never touched, I wouldn't
know how to do that.
No, there are people who do thatfor a living.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
So you just give orders, put this light there,
put that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
We draw it all out.
And then my associate draws itall out.
There's a productionelectrician, the show hires a
production electrician, he'slike the head electrician.
He takes the drawings, hefigures it all out, like where
everything's gonna run.
He oversees the hanging, uh, theinstallation of the plot.
Because when you do Broadwayshow, you're renting a
completely empty theater.
(17:21):
There's nothing in a theater.
No lights, no rig, nothing.
There's no lights, there's noWi-Fi, there's no air
conditioners, there's no there'sa whole uh wardob department
that needs washers and dryersand steamers and hangers and
shelves, and there is nothing.
They bring everything for aproduction?
Correct.
(17:41):
There it is an empty box.
I mean, you might have like anAC unit in a window here and
there for a dressing room, andthere might be some chairs in a
dressing room, and that's it.
There's it is an empty building.
So we each department gets allthis stuff and installs it all,
and that's part of like theload-in and the so you're
(18:02):
installing like a completebusiness in a in a theater.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So part of your job is to order all the different
lights that you're gonna needfor the show?
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my associate makes a shoporder with the production
electrician because everythinguh uh uh this all comes out of a
shop that they bid on, and thenthere's a weekly rental cost.
Okay.
And every single cable, screw,piece of gel, gel holder,
everything you would ever needis in that shop order.
(18:31):
I don't understand what most ofit means.
Because it's like monitors andmonitors and all kinds of cable,
and I mean it's just like pipeand ladders and genie lifts and
you get an empty box of abuilding that you have to put a
show up in.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
That's so crazy.
I thought that they give it toyou with the lights and you just
change them around.
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
No, no, no, no, no.
Because those lights, well,every show's different, every
set's different, so you needlights in different places.
But also now lighting is like uhyou if you went into a theater,
you would want to update allthat stuff, you know, now like
moving lights are changing soquickly.
So you we get whatever's on theshelves that's probably newer
(19:12):
and install it all.
And the lights aren't gonna hangat the same place every time.
Yeah, but anyway, to answer aquestion, I don't hang the
lights.
There are then electricians thatare hired by the show and maybe
whoever owns the theater.
I haven't quite figured thisout.
And they hang the lights, and Igo in and watch occasionally and
(19:34):
point.
I'm not allowed to touchanything.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Oh, because it's a different union, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
It is, but also they take pride in me not needing to
touch things.
But like on a film, it'sdefinitely like don't touch
that.
Like it's that's definitelyunion divided labor of who
touches what.
So yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:52):
Do you find that it helped you that you worked at
your earlier life before you gotinto lighting, you work in sets,
you worked in that.
Do you feel that that helped youin your profession at the
moment?
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah, totally, because I a lot of what I
There's two kinds of lighting tome.
There's the kinds of lightingwhere the lights are visible, uh
there's no masking, and theoverhead lights are visible and
the side lights are visible, orI have things more inside the
space that are visible.
Those things are really informedby my work as a set designer,
how they occupy the space andhow they frame the space and all
(20:25):
this stuff.
Uh, second kind of lighting isthe lights are not seen because
they're all behind masking andborders.
And that's more of just liketraditional theater lighting.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Like I think most of the things I did at the
Metropolitan Opera, the lightingwas hidden.
Half the things I do inBroadway.
I did a lot of shows where thelighting was visible, like
American Idiot and SpringAwakening, and but uh about half
the shows I do now, thelighting's not visible.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
We mentioned before, before we started to record how
technology changed over theyears.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Can you give us a little taste of what it's like
now compared to what it was?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
Yeah, on the planet Earth.
No, you're not almost yet.
We have just gone through in thelast like 16, 17, 18 years,
we've gone through thistransition of this energy
efficiency transitioneverywhere.
To LED?
To LED in your homes, the deli,at the big box store, and in the
(21:25):
theater.
In the theater.
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That happened all in just 14 or15 or 16 years.
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
But can you have like a direction light with an
LED?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was quite crude.
Uh I think the first LEDs wereused on Broadway like in the
early 2000s, mostly just tolight backgrounds.
Right.
Because they were I can seethat.
Yeah, yeah.
Like Spring Awakening, I hadthese huge walls and they were
lit with LED.
Next to normal, I had abackground that was lit with
LED.
(21:57):
And then eventually the colorimproved and the direction, the
thing you're talking about, andyou could light humans with LED.
Like for SpongeBob, the musical,I didn't have much gel at all.
And it was mo the people, thebackgrounds and the scenery and
the people were lit with LEDoften.
There's no heat buildup.
(22:17):
You you would get on a setthat's tied, and that heat just
builds up, right?
Especially like behind and nowit doesn't.
And it's great.
And you don't change color asmuch because color is not
burning, or it's LED, it's likemaking the color.
I did three musicals on Broadwaythat used a huge amount of
fluorescent light.
Spring Awakening, Next toNormal, and Passing Strange,
(22:41):
each used a tremendous amount ofuh fluorescent tubes and
fluorescent light bulbs, andnone of that stuff exists
anymore.
The cool thing about LED isthere's it comes in all these
different shapes and gadgets anddoodads and sizes and so there's
a huge amount of lightinginstruments we can choose from,
(23:01):
but they're LED and the colorshave gotten quite nice.
You can light humans now.
It is changing so quickly, thelighting industry.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
How do you keep up with the changes?
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
How do you know now I have young associates who know
who read about it all the time?
Yeah, and they go see, they workon lots of different things, and
they know what the shop has, andthey know they're like, Oh, you
might really like this, orthere's this new light that's
come out with no fan, it'sreally quiet, and you might like
it, and they know.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Okay, I have to ask you about the all the Tony's
that you want.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
First of all, I want to know about the first one.
When you got the phone call,what did you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
Oh, you get nominated, so you get a call in
the morning.
Usually my agent calls me andsays, Hello, how are you this
morning?
And I'll say, Oh, what's goingon?
I'm just lying here in bed.
Is something happening?
We have this old game we play.
Uh, then it used to be fourweeks between your time you're
nominated and the Tony Awards.
Now it's five weeks.
(24:00):
Uh so that's torture.
And then it the awards are inJune and it's hot, and you have
to get dressed up.
That part's a pain.
Like, what are you gonna wear?
It's hot, it's a long, long,long, long, long, long day and
night.
But the hard the biggest thingis preparing a speech.
Like, oh my god, I have to getup in front of the entire world
(24:23):
at Radio City Music Hall and saysomething.
So I'll like practice andpractice and practice and
practice and practice that.
That's the scariest thing.
Then once you get through that,it's it's a different night.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
So you were no nominated eight times and won
four times.
Correct.
So the four times that you lost,were you highly disappointed?
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
No, the first time I didn't win, I was nominated
twice that year.
And I knew that Which shows werethere?
Uh Hair and Next to Normal.
And I had won the year before.
I'd won the two years before.
So, you know, I didn't have anycomplaints.
And to be nominated twice wasamazing.
Yes.
But it's really hard to win.
(25:03):
And also I knew that uh Billy uhElliott would win.
Someone had told me, like, ifyou know you're not gonna win
when you go, it's a much funnernight, and boy, is that true.
Oh really?
Yeah, because you're you canwear relaxed shoes, you can just
enjoy the night.
And that four or five weeks oftorture between the time you're
nominated and the night, there'sless torture.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
How come you knew you're not gonna win?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
Like, I could tell you months ago what's gonna win
this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
You said Sunset Boulevard you think will win
this year.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
Yeah, probably.
I knew that like the day theyopened, they're probably gonna
win a tour.
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
I interviewed the makeup person for that and the
wig maker.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
No, that would probably win the lighting for
lighting this year.
The winning nights, I just it'sa long night, and I end up just
like on the sofa sleeping, likejust like it's so tense.
It's a lot to go through.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
And you make a lot more money after you win, right?
I mean your career just takesoff.
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Yeah, in theory, I mean uh Spring Awakening like
really moved me to a differentcategory of designer, and that
included more money.
But partly that was because thatshow really I was like 40
something, and that show reallyshowed off my ideas I had been
working on for years reallyclearly.
So I had really good ideas thatwere presented in a really good
(26:17):
show that were really on theradar, and so it was not only
that I got a Tony, but it waslike that I did some excellent
work that really shined.
That all that together kind ofmade like a career life change.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Is there one show or performance that you worked on
that excited you the most thatyou're proud of the most?
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
I worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch, many, many.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Which was a fantastic show.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We started, I worked in thefirst off Broadway production in
900 seven, I think we did thatat the West Beth, which is not
even there anymore.
We opened at the Jane StreetTheater on February 14th, 1998,
and ran for two and a halfyears.
I designed Hedwig in severalcities, we couldn't give the
tickets away.
No one wanted to come see a rockand roll drag queen, no one knew
(27:05):
what that was, or no one caredwhat that was.
And then I then I did it onBroadway in 20 uh 14.
And that's when you got theTony.
I did, I did.
But I always loved working onthat show because I just love
the songs.
By the time we got to 2014,people knew the show.
Right.
People knew the songs.
Like I said, in the 90s wecouldn't give those tickets away
(27:28):
because the movie came out andall this stuff.
And people were just it it wassold out every night, and they
brought this amazing energy in,and they couldn't wait to be in
this room with Hedwig, and itwas so thrilling, you know.
They were just they were so opento it and excited by it, and
yeah, that's neat.
Excellent.
That part's great.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
All right, and on that note, thank you so much for
doing it.
It's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
I the royalty thing, really.
Wow, I didn't know about it.
That's how we make a lot ofmoney.
Now I wish I was a lady.
I know, that's how we make a lotof money.
Okay, that's a wrap for today.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website at how muchcan I make that info.
(28:14):
We would love to hear from you.
And on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly
royalty, and if the show doesreally well, that's where you
make some money.
But then, hold on, it getsbetter.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
And it gets better indeed.
Hi, and welcome back to How MuchCan I Make?
This week we're stepping intothe spotlight, literally, with
one of the masters behind themagic of lighting.
Our guest is a four-time TonyAward winner, Kevin Adams.
He's a lighting designer whosework has illuminated Broadway,
Las Vegas, Opera, and many otherproductions.
(00:35):
So let's find out from Kevinwhat does it take to become an
award-winning lighting designer?
So, Kevin, first of all, thankyou so much for willing to do
that.
Nice to be here today.
Thank you.
Let's start by telling us howdid you get into lighting
design?
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
I really wanted to be a performer.
Like lots of young performers, Iwould do little puppet shows.
In high school, I was in playsand musicals.
After a really bad audition forthe Diary of Anne Frank, I had a
high school teacher who verygently guided me into set
design.
He he suggested I might want tobe the set designer for the
(01:14):
diary of Anne Frank.
I remember thinking, like,what's that?
And he explained it.
And then I just like I just tookto that so quickly.
And then I went to theUniversity of Texas in Austin
and got a BFA in set design.
Never studied lighting, had nointerest in lighting, didn't
notice the lighting.
I was just like really ambitiousand dedicated to set design.
(01:39):
And then I went to CaliforniaInstitute of the Arts and I went
there to study more set design,but they also taught production
design for film.
MTV premiered in late 1981, andin 84 it was still
round-the-clock, you know, musicshorts, which was like thrilling
at the time.
And I thought, like, oh, this issomething I want to be a part
(02:00):
of.
So I studied production designfor film, didn't study lighting,
had zero interest in lighting.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
It was a two-year program at an art school, and it
cost so little at the time.
And moved into Hollywood.
I worked in film a lot.
I was a dresser, props dresser,set dresser, which I really
loved.
Built scenery, but I was an artdirector.
I was a production designer.
I worked on lots of likehigh-end commercials like Bose
(02:30):
Speakers and Apple and lots ofbeer like Budweiser and
Budweiser Light.
And and then, because there'sstill lighting to come.
Because you said you weretotally not interested in
lighting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I saw the work of fineartists that use light in their
work at various museums.
I saw that work a lot.
(02:50):
New work and old work.
And I I saw that I could designa space around these things that
I found in hardware stores,light bulbs and fluorescent
tubes that could make light andturn on and off very quickly and
make a new space.
And I started lighting my ownlittle sets, and immediately the
phone started ringing.
With these really well-known,you know, in the late 80s and
(03:12):
early 90s, there was a hugeperformance art scene in this
country.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Well, uh Rachel Rosenthal, this really
interesting lady, called me.
This she had been performing,she was an older lady who shaved
her head.
And I started working with her,lighting her shows, and
eventually we'd had fivedifferent shows that we would
do.
And John Fleck was one of theNEA four, and he was my first LA
boyfriend.
I started lighting his work anddoing little sets for him.
(03:39):
And then like well-knowndirectors would call me.
But all these people would saythe same thing.
They'd say, Hey, I saw that showyou did.
That's how I see my work.
Do you want to come light mywork?
And I'd say, like, I am not alighting designer at all.
Like I did I did that littleshow or two, and I'm a trained
set designer.
I know how to make shows, andbut I don't know anything about
(04:01):
lighting.
And they all said, you knowwhat?
That's okay.
Come try this.
And if it works, that's great.
And if it doesn't, it's no bigdeal.
Which was like really hard tosay no to, you know?
Because these people were likemaking really interesting work
and they were all really wellknown.
So I just started lightinglittle shows, and each show got
(04:22):
bigger, so I was learning abouttheatrical lighting at the same
time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
Do you prefer working on live shows or film?
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Once I became a lighting designer, I lit a music
video when I lived in LA, andthat was shot on film with this
Janet Jackson music video, butthat was for film, and I did not
understand how film capturedlight at all.
I had I had a lot of help fromthe DP and the uh director.
(04:50):
Now that film is digital, ourcameras are digital, and the
cameras mostly see what the ICs.
I've lit some things in the lastfew years, like I lit part of
that Mildred Pierce on HBO.
Really?
Yeah, I lit there's a wholeconcert thing in the middle of
it that I spent a lot of timeon.
It's minutes of the film, but Ispent two months on it.
(05:12):
That was digital, and so whatyou see with your eyes kind of
what the camera sees, and youcan have a monitor that's very
similar to what's exactly whatthe camera's gonna see.
That's much easier to light andbalance, and that I could
understand.
I like that no reviewer is gonnacome to it and review it, and I
I like that we don't go throughthat process that we go through
(05:33):
in New York City with theater,which is But I assume when the
lighting is right, the reviewerswill not even notice anything.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
It's only when the lighting is best.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
I think I've been mentioned in reviews, like I
mean maybe ten times.
I mean, shows that I want Toniesfor, like, they don't even
mention the lighting.
It's just like no, they justdon't talk about people don't
know how to talk about it, theydon't recognize it, they don't
see it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
They don't see it, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
So let's say a director or a producer comes to
you, a Broadway show, after fourTonies, I'm sure a lot of them
come to you.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
Somewhat, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
So they come to you with a play.
First of all, do you have tolive the play that you work on?
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
Do I have to like it?
Yeah.
You know, when you light a show,a musical, you have to hear
those songs a lot, like over andover and over and over and over.
And if I don't like the music,or if I don't get the music, I
would say no.
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
Once you design the lighting, do you have to be
there for every show?
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Or no, they pref you you're pretty much off the case.
Like once a show opens, you'redone.
Because they can't afford tohave programmers and they have
to pay everyone to work more.
So do you don't the plan is notto do pay anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Do you automate the lighting?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
So uh there's a programmer, which that is a
great field to get into.
Uh, there's a huge console, wecall it, which is a computer
that gets more complicated everyyear, and there's a person I
talk to, and they program thelighting into that console.
And then come opening night,that person's moved on to
another job.
(07:07):
I've moved on, my assistantsmoved on, my associates moved
on, and then there's a group ofpeople in the theater who
maintain the show, and there'sone guy who presses you just
press go.
The stage manager calls a cue,like Q1, go, Q2, go, Q3, go.
So it's like that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
The producer would come to you and offer you the
job or director?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
Uh all kinds of people.
Uh, it's usually a director willcall me and say, Hey, I'm doing
this thing, and I'll be like,I'll find out who else is
working on it and send me thescript.
So I'll read it and listen toit.
Sometimes it's an unfinishedscript.
Sometimes if it's an opera andit's new, you get nothing other
than like a topic because itdoesn't exist yet for an opera.
(07:51):
Uh and for musical, sometimesthere's a recording of like a
workshop.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
So you get the recording.
What do you do?
You start drawing what you'redoing.
I just listen to it.
I just sit and listen to it.
You get the atmosphere.
I mean, what inspires youusually?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Oh, just let what is the story?
What what's the music like?
What kind of music is it?
I do a lot of shows withelectric guitars.
I do a lot of like rock popshows.
I I mean everyone does now, butI had done I've done a lot of
like rock theater shows.
SPEAKER_01 (08:22):
Do you do special effects in those?
Like special effects with light?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
Oh, um, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I'm just
smoke, lots of smoke effects,lightning effects, fire effects,
like flame in a barrel, and likewhat else?
Lightning, you know, rain,things like that.
For swept away that I just didon Broadway, yeah.
I hung 30 industrial-sizedcarpet dryer fans around the
(08:47):
theater.
There's a huge there was a hugestorm in the show, and so we had
wind blowing through the entiretheater.
It was really neat.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
That's part of your job?
I would think that's part of theset design of it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
No, that though it's a it's an effect.
It's uh an special effect that Iknew how to do.
We had rain in the show too, butthat I didn't know how to do,
and we had I think scenery kindof took care of that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:10):
So when you did 30 fans, that must have been very
noisy, no?
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
It was, but it's a really loud storm, and the storm
covered it up.
But yeah, when you turned it on,it sounded like you were in a
huge HVAC system.
I mean it was quite a loudrumble.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Right.
I wouldn't see it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
You didn't hear it when the storm ran.
It was really amazing.
But you'd feel it.
The way it would and it stop itwould stop and start and stop
and start, and the whole theaterfelt it.
It was really neat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
Wow, that's an experience for an audience, I'm
sure.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Wind.
Did you ever work with a divaeither in opera or move or film
or theater that complained aboutthe lighting, she doesn't want
her wrinkles to show orsomething?
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
No, no, I mean you we are uh we are obligated to
especially take care of thewomen and make sure they look
good, and especially the olderwomen, they want to look good.
But you also like I go up andtalk to them often and tell them
how good they look and you'relooking great, and like they
want to know that you're takingcare of them, understandably.
And those those women who arelike solid show women like Patty
(10:13):
Lupone and Otta McDonald,they're like not divas at all.
They're amazing, they want tolook good, and if they didn't,
they would tell you, but uh youtake care of them and they're
amazing women.
I worked with Faye Donaway notlong ago, and that was um that
was an absolute trip.
unknown (10:30):
Oh why?
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Well, she's by far the most complicated person I've
ever worked with, but also waslike fascinating, you know.
Like everything I was hoping itwould be.
She was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Who was the greatest to work with from all the women?
SPEAKER_00 (10:46):
Oh, Patty's amazing.
I did a lot of things with PattyLapone and Audrey McDonald.
Those are they're all just likeshow folk.
Those are all just like Patty'slike a Jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk, you know?
They're great.
They show up early to work everyday and they work hard, and when
all the kids like leave onbreaks or lunch, they're like
(11:07):
still working and they'll stayafter and work.
And those are really, reallyhardworking, smart people.
And I love I they're you know,and they're show folk.
They're funny and weird andneurotic and you know,
everything that show folks are.
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
And from the guys, who was the most difficult to
work with?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Difficult?
Oh, uh pleasure.
I can't there were some likesuper lazy tenors who were just
like coasting through the show.
I they're just handsome guys whokind of coast.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
We we talked before that you don't know really about
pay because after four tonniesand eight nominations, right?
That's correct.
This is crazy, Kevin.
It's crazy.
So you're on a total differentechelon.
But if somebody starts, yes, canyou give us an idea what the
what can they make?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
I have no idea.
You know, I'm in a union.
We have minimums for designerson shows.
I don't make minimum.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Do you know what the minimum is?
Any idea?
SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
Well, it's plays and musicals are different.
A Broadway musical, there'sphases, there's like a musical
with one set, then there's amusical with two sets, and
there's multi-there's all thesedifferent categories.
Uh I think it's like 12 or 16 or17 or 18,000.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
For a show, for a week.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
Oh, for a show.
For a show.
Not for a week.
Uh then you get paid.
If you design a Broadway show,you get a weekly royalty.
If a show does well.
What do you mean weekly royalty?
Wait, I never heard about that.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's how we make money.
If a show runs like The LionKing or Book of Mormon or so
(12:44):
many other shows that are at myshows, if a show runs every week
that it runs, you get paid.
And then you get paid a minimum,which in the last few years is
like$500 or$750 or$1,000 a week.
And then on top of that, there'sthere's cycles of royalties.
So every four weeks they countup the box office, they deduct
(13:09):
the cost of running the show,then they divide what's left up.
Everyone has a percentage basedon their contract.
The writers, the director, thechoreographer, the designers,
the actors.
It's the creative side, whatthey call it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
But wait, I need to understand this because I never
heard about it before.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
So let's say you work on the Lion King.
You design the lighting.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
Let's say that.
Okay.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
And you designed everything.
Everything is now basically onhalf automated.
Maybe you have somebody thatpushed the you still get the
royalties.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
You still get the royalties.
But then, hold on, it getsbetter.
So then your production of TheLion King is running in New
York, and then it's running inLA and many other places.
Correct.
It tours around the U.S.
And the world.
One or two tours.
It's running in Dubai and SouthAfrica and fucking Shenzhen.
(14:02):
Right.
It's all over the world.
Yeah, yeah.
And you get paid for all ofthose.
Oh, wow.
Indeed.
That's a great job.
Indeed.
Not many, there aren't manydesigners on Broadway.
And there certainly aren't manypeople that have shows that run
like that.
Right.
But yes, that's where you canmake some money.
Like I have two tours out nowthat from shows I did on
(14:24):
Broadway that are sellingreally, really, really well.
And you make royalties.
Yeah, I make a lot of money.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Yeah.
That's a sweet thing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
So whoever worked on the Phantom of the Opera made it
didn't have to work again.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
She died, but correct.
She she was found dead in hertub.
But yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Really?
Oh my god, I feel guilty forlaughing.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
The set designer.
I mean, you know, people die.
Uh and that show is a long timeago.
But yeah, I mean, yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they made they that wasa show from the 80s, so they
like people make so much morenow because of current
contracts.
But yeah, those people made alot of money.
They were making that was an 80scontract, so they were making
(15:07):
not near what people make now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Yeah, but they made it for 30 some years.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Yeah.
Oh, totally.
And that show ran everywhere andtoured everywhere.
Right.
Every day, every week you get acheck from all those.
Wow.
In D D.
That's great.
Okay.
Which, if you do a show inVegas, most shows in Vegas that
you design, they don't haveroyalties.
They just pay you one big lumpsum.
Some shows will give royalties,weekly royalties, but a lot of
(15:32):
shows will just pay you like achunk of money and then you open
the show and you're done.
I mean, a fee could be 50,000 or60 or 80,000 or you know,
something like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Wow.
Yeah.
It doesn't take that long todesign a show, right?
To design lighting for a show.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
I spend about a year in pre-production on a show.
I mean, that's not every day.
But it's if we start a show outof town, I start usually a year
before that.
We start in meetings, lots ofmeetings, then the set is
designed, then we do the plot.
So, you know, that's like fourhours here, four hours there,
four hours, you know, it's notevery day.
(16:09):
Correct.
And you're on the job.
You're doing other shows also.
Then rehearsal is like four orfive weeks.
I myself, this most people don'tdo this, but I go to like three
weeks of that rehearsal.
Then you're in the theater foruh tech.
So like in tech, uh come in at10, work 10 to 12, and we start
rehearsal on stage at 1, andthen we'll go to like a shorter
(16:30):
day is like 1 to 9, butsometimes we'll go to 1 to 10 or
1 to 10.30.
So I'm there like maybe 8 in themorning till 10 30 at night.
Wow.
But I have a lot of work to do,and I, you know, I can have a
lot to do.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
So do you actually hang the lights too?
Or you have people.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
No, I don't wouldn't I've never touched, I wouldn't
know how to do that.
No, there are people who do thatfor a living.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
So you just give orders, put this light there,
put that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
We draw it all out.
And then my associate draws itall out.
There's a productionelectrician, the show hires a
production electrician, he'slike the head electrician.
He takes the drawings, hefigures it all out, like where
everything's gonna run.
He oversees the hanging, uh, theinstallation of the plot.
Because when you do Broadwayshow, you're renting a
completely empty theater.
(17:21):
There's nothing in a theater.
No lights, no rig, nothing.
There's no lights, there's noWi-Fi, there's no air
conditioners, there's no there'sa whole uh wardob department
that needs washers and dryersand steamers and hangers and
shelves, and there is nothing.
They bring everything for aproduction?
Correct.
(17:41):
There it is an empty box.
I mean, you might have like anAC unit in a window here and
there for a dressing room, andthere might be some chairs in a
dressing room, and that's it.
There's it is an empty building.
So we each department gets allthis stuff and installs it all,
and that's part of like theload-in and the so you're
(18:02):
installing like a completebusiness in a in a theater.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So part of your job is to order all the different
lights that you're gonna needfor the show?
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my associate makes a shoporder with the production
electrician because everythinguh uh uh this all comes out of a
shop that they bid on, and thenthere's a weekly rental cost.
Okay.
And every single cable, screw,piece of gel, gel holder,
everything you would ever needis in that shop order.
(18:31):
I don't understand what most ofit means.
Because it's like monitors andmonitors and all kinds of cable,
and I mean it's just like pipeand ladders and genie lifts and
you get an empty box of abuilding that you have to put a
show up in.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
That's so crazy.
I thought that they give it toyou with the lights and you just
change them around.
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
No, no, no, no, no.
Because those lights, well,every show's different, every
set's different, so you needlights in different places.
But also now lighting is like uhyou if you went into a theater,
you would want to update allthat stuff, you know, now like
moving lights are changing soquickly.
So you we get whatever's on theshelves that's probably newer
(19:12):
and install it all.
And the lights aren't gonna hangat the same place every time.
Yeah, but anyway, to answer aquestion, I don't hang the
lights.
There are then electricians thatare hired by the show and maybe
whoever owns the theater.
I haven't quite figured thisout.
And they hang the lights, and Igo in and watch occasionally and
(19:34):
point.
I'm not allowed to touchanything.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Oh, because it's a different union, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
It is, but also they take pride in me not needing to
touch things.
But like on a film, it'sdefinitely like don't touch
that.
Like it's that's definitelyunion divided labor of who
touches what.
So yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:52):
Do you find that it helped you that you worked at
your earlier life before you gotinto lighting, you work in sets,
you worked in that.
Do you feel that that helped youin your profession at the
moment?
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah, totally, because I a lot of what I
There's two kinds of lighting tome.
There's the kinds of lightingwhere the lights are visible, uh
there's no masking, and theoverhead lights are visible and
the side lights are visible, orI have things more inside the
space that are visible.
Those things are really informedby my work as a set designer,
how they occupy the space andhow they frame the space and all
(20:25):
this stuff.
Uh, second kind of lighting isthe lights are not seen because
they're all behind masking andborders.
And that's more of just liketraditional theater lighting.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Like I think most of the things I did at the
Metropolitan Opera, the lightingwas hidden.
Half the things I do inBroadway.
I did a lot of shows where thelighting was visible, like
American Idiot and SpringAwakening, and but uh about half
the shows I do now, thelighting's not visible.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
We mentioned before, before we started to record how
technology changed over theyears.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Can you give us a little taste of what it's like
now compared to what it was?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
Yeah, on the planet Earth.
No, you're not almost yet.
We have just gone through in thelast like 16, 17, 18 years,
we've gone through thistransition of this energy
efficiency transitioneverywhere.
To LED?
To LED in your homes, the deli,at the big box store, and in the
(21:25):
theater.
In the theater.
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That happened all in just 14 or15 or 16 years.
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
But can you have like a direction light with an
LED?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was quite crude.
Uh I think the first LEDs wereused on Broadway like in the
early 2000s, mostly just tolight backgrounds.
Right.
Because they were I can seethat.
Yeah, yeah.
Like Spring Awakening, I hadthese huge walls and they were
lit with LED.
Next to normal, I had abackground that was lit with
LED.
(21:57):
And then eventually the colorimproved and the direction, the
thing you're talking about, andyou could light humans with LED.
Like for SpongeBob, the musical,I didn't have much gel at all.
And it was mo the people, thebackgrounds and the scenery and
the people were lit with LEDoften.
There's no heat buildup.
(22:17):
You you would get on a setthat's tied, and that heat just
builds up, right?
Especially like behind and nowit doesn't.
And it's great.
And you don't change color asmuch because color is not
burning, or it's LED, it's likemaking the color.
I did three musicals on Broadwaythat used a huge amount of
fluorescent light.
Spring Awakening, Next toNormal, and Passing Strange,
(22:41):
each used a tremendous amount ofuh fluorescent tubes and
fluorescent light bulbs, andnone of that stuff exists
anymore.
The cool thing about LED isthere's it comes in all these
different shapes and gadgets anddoodads and sizes and so there's
a huge amount of lightinginstruments we can choose from,
(23:01):
but they're LED and the colorshave gotten quite nice.
You can light humans now.
It is changing so quickly, thelighting industry.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
How do you keep up with the changes?
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
How do you know now I have young associates who know
who read about it all the time?
Yeah, and they go see, they workon lots of different things, and
they know what the shop has, andthey know they're like, Oh, you
might really like this, orthere's this new light that's
come out with no fan, it'sreally quiet, and you might like
it, and they know.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Okay, I have to ask you about the all the Tony's
that you want.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
First of all, I want to know about the first one.
When you got the phone call,what did you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
Oh, you get nominated, so you get a call in
the morning.
Usually my agent calls me andsays, Hello, how are you this
morning?
And I'll say, Oh, what's goingon?
I'm just lying here in bed.
Is something happening?
We have this old game we play.
Uh, then it used to be fourweeks between your time you're
nominated and the Tony Awards.
Now it's five weeks.
(24:00):
Uh so that's torture.
And then it the awards are inJune and it's hot, and you have
to get dressed up.
That part's a pain.
Like, what are you gonna wear?
It's hot, it's a long, long,long, long, long, long day and
night.
But the hard the biggest thingis preparing a speech.
Like, oh my god, I have to getup in front of the entire world
(24:23):
at Radio City Music Hall and saysomething.
So I'll like practice andpractice and practice and
practice and practice that.
That's the scariest thing.
Then once you get through that,it's it's a different night.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
So you were no nominated eight times and won
four times.
Correct.
So the four times that you lost,were you highly disappointed?
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
No, the first time I didn't win, I was nominated
twice that year.
And I knew that Which shows werethere?
Uh Hair and Next to Normal.
And I had won the year before.
I'd won the two years before.
So, you know, I didn't have anycomplaints.
And to be nominated twice wasamazing.
Yes.
But it's really hard to win.
(25:03):
And also I knew that uh Billy uhElliott would win.
Someone had told me, like, ifyou know you're not gonna win
when you go, it's a much funnernight, and boy, is that true.
Oh really?
Yeah, because you're you canwear relaxed shoes, you can just
enjoy the night.
And that four or five weeks oftorture between the time you're
nominated and the night, there'sless torture.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
How come you knew you're not gonna win?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
Like, I could tell you months ago what's gonna win
this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
You said Sunset Boulevard you think will win
this year.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
Yeah, probably.
I knew that like the day theyopened, they're probably gonna
win a tour.
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
I interviewed the makeup person for that and the
wig maker.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
No, that would probably win the lighting for
lighting this year.
The winning nights, I just it'sa long night, and I end up just
like on the sofa sleeping, likejust like it's so tense.
It's a lot to go through.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
And you make a lot more money after you win, right?
I mean your career just takesoff.
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Yeah, in theory, I mean uh Spring Awakening like
really moved me to a differentcategory of designer, and that
included more money.
But partly that was because thatshow really I was like 40
something, and that show reallyshowed off my ideas I had been
working on for years reallyclearly.
So I had really good ideas thatwere presented in a really good
(26:17):
show that were really on theradar, and so it was not only
that I got a Tony, but it waslike that I did some excellent
work that really shined.
That all that together kind ofmade like a career life change.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Is there one show or performance that you worked on
that excited you the most thatyou're proud of the most?
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
I worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch, many, many.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Which was a fantastic show.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We started, I worked in thefirst off Broadway production in
900 seven, I think we did thatat the West Beth, which is not
even there anymore.
We opened at the Jane StreetTheater on February 14th, 1998,
and ran for two and a halfyears.
I designed Hedwig in severalcities, we couldn't give the
tickets away.
No one wanted to come see a rockand roll drag queen, no one knew
(27:05):
what that was, or no one caredwhat that was.
And then I then I did it onBroadway in 20 uh 14.
And that's when you got theTony.
I did, I did.
But I always loved working onthat show because I just love
the songs.
By the time we got to 2014,people knew the show.
Right.
People knew the songs.
Like I said, in the 90s wecouldn't give those tickets away
(27:28):
because the movie came out andall this stuff.
And people were just it it wassold out every night, and they
brought this amazing energy in,and they couldn't wait to be in
this room with Hedwig, and itwas so thrilling, you know.
They were just they were so opento it and excited by it, and
yeah, that's neat.
Excellent.
That part's great.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
All right, and on that note, thank you so much for
doing it.
It's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
I the royalty thing, really.
Wow, I didn't know about it.
That's how we make a lot ofmoney.
Now I wish I was a lady.
I know, that's how we make a lotof money.
Okay, that's a wrap for today.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website at how muchcan I make that info.
(28:14):
We would love to hear from you.
And on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
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