January 14, 2025 • 44 mins
Let’s talk about kids and good manners.
—
Who Should Listen
Do your kids’ manners—or lack thereof—give you anxiety? If so, this episode is for you!
—
What You Get In This Episode
In this episode, we explore how our own family rules and values, like leading with kindness, can actually help reduce social anxiety for both kids and parents.
We discuss practical strategies for teaching good manners, including the importance of modeling good behavior, knowing when to introduce certain manners, and using positive reinforcement to encourage polite interactions. Tune in for the tips!
—
Bios
Jenny and Caitlin are two friends sharing their experiences and insights on parenting. In this episode, they discuss practical strategies for teaching children good manners, from modeling good behavior to using positive reinforcement.
—
Sources
- How to Teach Kids Manners: Parenting Tips for Polite Kids, According to a Child Therapist by Emma Singer with additional reporting by Suzanne Zuckerman | PureWow
- Jennifer Kelman is a mental health expert on JustAnswer, where she has provided online support to those in need since 2012. In addition to her work on JustAnswer, Kelman has been a licensed clinical social worker for more than 30 years and maintains a private practice specializing in relationships, parenting, and children’s mental health issues.
The best support is a rating and a share.
Love,
CK & GK
View our website at ckandgkpodcast.com. Find us on social media @ckandgkpodcast on
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Thanks, y'all!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenny GK (00:01):
Pardon me, but may I alert you that it is Tuesday.
Caitlin K (00:07):
You get me.
Every time.
I never know how you're goingto do this.
I'm always surprised.
Welcome back, guys.
It's good to have you here.
This is how to Be a Grown-Upthe show that teaches you the
things that grown-ups need toknow how to do.
Yeah, yeah.
This week we are talking aboutteaching kids to have good
(00:32):
manners.
Personally, this is something Ireally struggle with, not
because I don't want my child tohave manners, but because I, or
because he's rude or anythinglike that, because he's not,
because I am self-consciousabout his manners, like oh wait,
you make it about you.
Yes, of course, who doesn't?
Jenny GK (00:51):
That sounds like me.
Caitlin K (00:52):
It's always about me, are you kidding?
Um, I'm just on high alertabout how I'm perceived by other
people.
It's just a self-consciousnessissue, and manners are a big
part of that, but I'll get intoall of that in just a minute.
Jenny GK (01:06):
So first, before we do that, we've got to introduce
each other With me today isCaitlin, who's not Emily Post,
she's Emily the most.
Caitlin K (01:16):
Oh, I like that one.
It's very apropos.
This is Jenny, my majesticsoaring condor.
Jenny GK (01:26):
Wow, I have seen the condor.
Have you?
Yes, so at the San Diego WildAnimal Park which is not the zoo
, it's the one out in the hillsthat's like more natural
enclosures they have a condorenclosure, oh cool, and they're
like one of the organizationsresponsible for like bringing
condors back to nature.
But they're huge of theorganizations responsible for
like bringing condors back tonature.
Caitlin K (01:46):
But they're huge, they're really big.
So my sources for today are anarticle, of course, by Emma
Singer, who I adore, on PureWow,and she has some additional
support from Suzanne Zuckerman,and they interviewed a mental
health expert named JenniferKelman.
She's a clinical social workerand she's got a lot of good
(02:08):
credentials that you can checkout on the article.
The article is called how toTeach Kids Manners Parenting
Tips for Polite Kids, accordingto a child therapist.
So I actually read through thisarticle several times just
trying to make sure that I agreewith everything that I saw
there.
As you and I do as we vet thesources.
I liked everything on this list.
I didn't really like how itkind of jumped around from one
(02:31):
thing to another thing, so Irearranged the order of how this
works just to categorize a fewthings, and I'll go through each
of those in just a second.
But I want to start by saying Ithink we've gone over this
before.
You know, sam has likeaffirmations that we say every
day.
Jenny GK (02:46):
Right, right Right.
Caitlin K (02:47):
So we always start with you know, be nice to each
other, or be nice to peoplearound you, be kind, right, um,
listen to your teacher, listento your body.
And then there's a couple otherones Be nice to everyone, try
stuff like that.
Okay, I can do hard things,things like that.
So one of them is be nice toeveryone, stuff like that, okay,
I can do hard things, thingslike that.
So one of them is be nice toeveryone.
And I think that having goodmanners falls under that rule.
(03:11):
Absolutely, um, I've alwaysmaintained that manners really
do two things.
One, they help you feelcomfortable around other people
and help others feel comfortablearound you.
Jenny GK (03:25):
Okay, okay, so here's the science behind that.
Caitlin K (03:28):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (03:29):
There are communal expectations, and nothing feels
worse than unmet expectations.
So when there are rules abouthow we engage, we know what to
expect and so we feel morecomfortable because there's not
unknown out there.
Caitlin K (03:44):
oh so like manners are just psychology yeah, that
makes that makes a lot of sense.
I also think that they're.
I mean, it's just aboutrespecting other people, right
like on the surface.
It's respect for other people.
Jenny GK (03:58):
So um, and the respect is shown by by treating them
the way they expect to betreated, so they're not
surprised by what you do.
Caitlin K (04:05):
Right.
So when I get nervous aroundnew people or settings, or when
my son gets nervous around newpeople or settings, I say things
like if we remember our manners, we're leading with kindness,
which is one of our family rules, and everyone feels less
nervous when we just lead withkindness.
Right, can we?
Jenny GK (04:24):
talk about that being one of your family rules.
Yeah, because you know that myfamily rule is we don't waste
meat.
Caitlin K (04:32):
We have another one too.
It's Moran's eat meat.
We also have that.
When my sister said she was,she was like guys, I think I'm
going to be a vegetarian.
My other sister goes whatMoran's eat meat.
Like guys, I think I'm going tobe a vegetarian.
My other sister goes whatMarantz eat meat my favorite
(04:53):
lines ever.
It cracked me up, but like no,we just, whenever we're having
conversations about, you know,political things or just people
being mean to each other, orpeople make comments on other
people's bodies, we always comeback to this is how we treat
others with kindness, like welead by kindness.
So that's really what this isabout.
Um, there are some FAQs that goalong with this that I wanted
(05:14):
to point out.
Yeah, so I'm going to startwith those.
One is when should they learnmanners?
Well, I mean anyone who'strying to teach a baby to say
thank you, like let it go, Right, but think about the natural
age of socialization, right,Like, once we get into a
situation where there's otherpeople that we are interacting
with, that's probably the righttime to start doing that.
(05:35):
Not infant daycare, not theclass for one year olds, for
one-year-olds, but, like youknow, when kids are able to
speak to one another and wherewe've moved past the, you know
we don't hit stage.
Jenny GK (05:51):
Maybe it's, maybe that's a good time to start
introducing these things well,and it's one of those things
that when you're at that agewhere you're narrating your day
for your kid yeah, that's whenyou can start to talk about what
you're doing.
I'm going to say please,because I know that person
appreciates it when I ask kindlywe get into that, or I will get
(06:11):
into that too in just a minute.
Caitlin K (06:12):
But basically, like those typical kid behaviors that
can come off as rude, you cannarrate those situations and
that's probably about the righttime when you would start this
teaching.
What manner should kids learn?
These are hard because everyoneperceives manners differently.
(06:33):
So, in terms of what mannerskids should learn, try not to
focus on hard and fast rules.
Everybody's manners looksdifferent regionally and all
that kind of stuff, so don'tcommit yourself to hard and fast
.
Kids need to learn this by thisage.
Just pay attention to what'sactually happening and use it as
an opportunity to teach themanner, as opposed to okay, well
(06:57):
, first we're going to talkabout thank you and then we're
going to talk about please.
That doesn't work for anybody.
Then the last one is what do Ido when kids forget their
manners, forget?
There are quotes around theword forget.
Just remember that I said.
Manners are about like your ownor my own discomfort, right?
(07:18):
I think one of the first thingsyou need to do is own that
discomfort, right.
Like you're embarrassed thatyour kid forgets their manners.
It's not.
Your kid isn't embarrassed.
They forgot their manners.
You, as the parent, areembarrassed that they forgot
their manners, right.
So I think owning that and thentrying to stay calm and then
either some sort of apology towhoever needs to hear it or
(07:39):
whatever, is probablyappropriate.
But then don't come down onyour kid in that moment.
Just find an opportune time totalk about it and we'll get to
that in just a second.
Okay, actually, teaching mannersAgain, I've categorized these
for my own self to make sense ofit.
So start with yourself whenyou're coming to this whole
(08:02):
teaching manners topic.
One be a role model.
Do not command your child tosay and do specific things like
say please and thank you, butinstead model the behavior that
you wish to see.
We've talked about this overand over and over again on this
(08:22):
show and, especially as teachers, we know modeling the behavior
that you wish to see is going tobe the best way to get this
started and it creates buy-inabsolutely it's right.
I'm not asking you to dosomething that I'm not gonna do
myself exactly so when you dothat, you're also opening the
(08:43):
door for conversation about thevalue of manners.
Right, making other people feelcomfortable, instead of just
parroting you by saying pleaseand thank you because mom said,
say please, say thank you, ordoing it just because you told
them to.
So, along those lines, don'tforce good manners.
They won't get used if you'renot around.
(09:05):
If you try to force them, right, that very common what do you
say?
Or oh, that was so nice of AuntBlanche, she gave you a
lollipop.
Say thank you.
That's not teaching.
You think it is, but it's not.
It's forcing.
So there's two problems withthat.
One why do your kids clean uparound the house?
(09:28):
Because you told them to overand over and over again.
Not because they actually carethat it's clean, not because
they see the value of cleaningup.
So, just like when you don'ttell them to, they don't clean
up, right?
Same thing here when you forcemanners, you tell them that they
have to say please or say thankyou.
They won't use them when you'renot around, just like they
(09:52):
don't clean up unless you tellthem to.
Jenny GK (09:54):
Oh wait, they don't.
Mm-mm.
Oh, okay.
Well, I haven't been in Abby'sroom in six months, so I'm not
quite sure what it looks like.
Caitlin K (10:07):
That month, so I'm not quite sure what it looks
like.
That's because she's a teenager.
I think it has carpeting Right.
You got to stay out of there.
That's a teenager's room.
Yeah Two, you're not givingyour child the opportunity to
develop that thoughtful andempathetic frame of mind that is
the foundation of having goodmanners, right?
So instead of doing the what doyou say?
Sort of line, instead you'regoing to do the polite thing for
(10:29):
your child and in front of them, and then later on you'll have
a private conversation at a timeand place when your child won't
feel embarrassed or ashamed fornot using their manners.
So, for example, wasn't that sonice of Aunt Blanche to give
you that lollipop?
Did you hear me say thank youto her?
That's because I wanted to lether know that you and I
(10:51):
appreciated her kindness ingiving you that lollipop.
It makes people feel good whenwe show them that we appreciate
them, and that can make us feelgood too.
Jenny GK (11:01):
Got it, got it.
Caitlin K (11:02):
Yeah.
So again, you're modeling andthen explaining.
The third thing you're going todo is rethink your notion of
misbehavior, and this should sayCaitlin, you need to rethink
your notion of misbehavior,because misbehavior and age
appropriate things tend tooverlap quite a bit here.
(11:22):
Right, being obsessed withraising polite kids can actually
cause you me, all of us tojudge our own children for their
developmentally appropriatebehavior.
And judgment has absolutely noplace in parenting, whether
that's you of another parent oryou of your child.
(11:45):
Right, right, hands down.
When I read that line from thechild psychologist, I was
absolutely in agreement withthat one.
So along those lines, judgmentdoesn't have any place in
parenting.
Neither does shame Keep shameout of this.
It doesn't work on your kid.
Neither does shame Keep shameout of this, it doesn't work on
(12:07):
your kid.
And ultimately, the shame thatyou feel about your child not
using their manners needs to belet go of also.
Okay, chances are pretty highthat aunt Blanche didn't even
notice that one missing thankyou from your kid.
So let it go.
And the other thing is, youknow what else?
Other parents get it, the oneswho don't get it, uh, to have
just shown you that you're nothaving another play date with
(12:29):
them again.
The end Wow, it's true.
How many parents like I thinkthat that's one of the beautiful
things about our generation ofparenting is that we're all like
girl, don't worry aboutcleaning up your house before I
show up, I don't care, becausewe all understand that this is
hard, right?
So the parent who's like um,your child did not say thank you
(12:52):
for the popsicle that I gavehim after he got off the
trampoline is going to like what.
I'm not sending my kid backover to you again, thanks.
Jenny GK (13:01):
Yeah, or they're like me and be like okay, I'm going
to give everybody a popsicle,and what?
Caitlin K (13:06):
are you?
Jenny GK (13:06):
all going to say when I give it to you, right?
Caitlin K (13:10):
I'd rather that, like I give a reminder beforehand,
right?
Okay, so the second littlecategory that we're talking
about is front loading.
We've talked about this termbefore.
This is my major belief inteaching.
It's my major belief in everysingle thing that I learn and
that other people learn.
I believe that you need to havethe vocabulary in order to be a
(13:31):
functioning member of acommunity, right?
So we're going to, with manners, front load the vocabulary.
What I mean is pre teachmanners, okay.
Jenny GK (13:42):
Got it, got it.
Caitlin K (13:42):
So that doesn't mean pre-teaching like please and
thank you.
That's not what we're gettingat.
We're talking about having,first of all, regular
conversations about caring forother people.
Okay, Remember what I saidearlier about how manners are
about respect.
Whenever you can just have aconversation about how we show
kindness and respect to others,If the opportunity arises, say
(14:10):
things like oh, we don't commenton other people's bodies, or if
someone can fix that in fiveminutes, then you can tell them
that they have something intheir teeth.
If they can't fix it in fiveminutes, then we don't say
anything about it at all.
Right, Stuff like that, Exactly.
The other another way you canfront load the vocabulary or
pre-teach the manners is playgames that teach manners right,
when you're having a situationin which you would be modeling.
(14:30):
Pretend play for those youngerkids is great here, when they
want to play restaurant or house.
This is the time to teach themanners right.
You can intentionally model.
Oh, thank you so much forbringing me my dinner.
Meanwhile it's like you know, abox of crayons and some tape,
but whatever, it's fine.
(14:51):
Thank you so much for bringingme my dinner.
It's great.
Okay For older kids.
Jenny GK (14:52):
You're going to think, or this is cold, Would you
please bring it back to the chefand tell him to refire it?
I said it politely.
Yes, you did.
Caitlin K (15:02):
Okay For older kids.
Think about other things youmight play, like card games,
board games, any opportunitythat you have to talk about
taking turns, being honest andbeing a good sport.
All of those are goodopportunities to teach manners.
Again, you're just modelingthem.
You're not necessarily sayinglike well, I passed out these
seven cards to you.
(15:23):
It's time for you to say thankyou, right, yeah, you're going
to also consider watching TVshows that model good manners.
What have we said before?
Daniel Tiger can raise my childbecause and he did for an
entire year.
Bless the pandemic.
Jenny GK (15:42):
Thank you, 2020.
Right.
Caitlin K (15:44):
Again, this kind of applies to younger kids.
Like Daniel Tiger is a youngerkid show, but things like Sesame
street and Mr Rogersneighborhood and Blippi Daniel
Tiger they all are greatopportunities to teach manners,
because all of those shows areprimarily about being kind to
other people, Right so?
Jenny GK (16:00):
and as your kid gets older, just put on great British
bakingaking Show.
Caitlin K (16:03):
They are also kind.
See, I'm starting to like thatshow.
I'm so happy, so happy.
He's like can we watch GreatBritish Baking Show?
I'm like, yeah, which season?
5 through 12.
Jenny GK (16:15):
Nadia's season.
Every year Nadia's season.
Caitlin K (16:18):
I like Sahul, I mean precious.
Jenny GK (16:21):
Understandable yes.
Caitlin K (16:22):
Precious, right, okay , you can also again, we're
front-loading the vocabularyhere.
We're pre-teaching thosemanners Read books that
emphasize social and emotionallearning, because those books
are primarily about caring andshowing respect for others.
So I have a list here.
This is just a sample, butthese are some of my favorites
that we have in our house.
(16:42):
So one is the Rainbow Fish byMarcus Pfister I Am Enough.
By Grace Byers, which isbeautiful.
It's like poetry.
I love that book.
Jabari Jumps by Gaia Cornwall,I love Jabari Jumps.
It is the sweetest little book.
The Invisible Boy by PatriceBarton, the Boy with Big, big
(17:03):
Feelings, which is a popular one.
I've seen around a lot latelybut that one's by Brittany Wynne
Lee and one of our favoriteseries in our house the Bad Seed
, the Good Egg, the Smart Cookiethose are all great ones the
Couch Potato.
Jenny GK (17:15):
The Couch Potato is a great one.
That's the favorite one in ourhouse.
Caitlin K (17:18):
Yep, we do like that one too, and those are all by
Jory John and the illustrator isPete Oswalt and it's they're
all amazing.
So those are some great ones.
And the that bad seed good eggones, those get really good for
older kids too.
Yeah, okay.
So we've talked about workingon yourself, we've talked about
pre-teaching.
(17:38):
Now we're going to talk aboutwhat happens when you're
actually at the event, where themanners need to be happening,
where my anxiety just spikedeven thinking about this
particular category.
So when you're at the event,whatever it might be, first of
all, most important thing, donot treat your child like they
(17:59):
are the third wheel.
Why I want to be here and hangout with adults and talk to
adults, because this is foradult time.
Uh, no, this one should beobvious, because if you ignore
your kid at an event, what willyour kid do?
Jenny GK (18:16):
They will absolutely get your attention.
Caitlin K (18:18):
Find a way to make sure you don't ignore them,
right?
You already know what thatmeans.
In my experience, it means Imight be dragging my child out
in a football hold, just sayingI prefer a fireman's carry.
That's a good one too, but Ihave been kicked.
I have been kneed in the face.
Jenny GK (18:39):
So I choose the football yeah.
Okay.
Caitlin K (18:42):
Yeah, if you have.
If you are lucky enough to beat an event where there are
multiple children, you mightencourage some child play time.
However, if it's you and anadult and then your child is
there, you're going to want tofind a way to include them in an
age appropriate way in whateverconversation you're having.
(19:02):
So if it means that you'reasking them what their favorite
color is great, no problem.
But if you can't happen toengage them in the conversation
in that moment, I like to put myhand on a shoulder or just kind
of color, along with my childor something, just so that he
(19:22):
knows I'm still there, he stillhas my attention, he's not
forgotten about, even though I'mengaged in a discussion with
another adult.
Jenny GK (19:31):
Right, Right, and I think this kind of parlays into
the next point you have aboutthe minimizing interruptions.
Because this is a big thing inour family is like there is a
way for you to tell me that youneed attention that is positive
and will get attention.
Caitlin K (19:47):
Now, emergency situations are not what we're
talking about here.
Jenny GK (19:52):
Oh yeah, no, come on.
If there's a dog like you needto tell me there's a dog, I want
to pet this dog.
That's an emergency.
Caitlin K (20:00):
Dog equals emergency, okay.
Hug equals emergency, okay.
But in the event that you can'tpossibly get your child to
leave you alone for thisconversation, you're going to
work on gentle interruptionmethods, okay?
So my favorite one is having mychild just put his hand, like
(20:23):
on my hand or on my elbow,somewhere on my on my hand or on
my elbow, somewhere on myforearm.
He knows that he can touch thatpart of me and that that means
he's got something to say, andthen he knows that I will break
for the like, find a break inthe conversation and then turn
my attention to him in thatmoment we do the same, and it's
(20:43):
normally some kind of responseof like okay, I hear you.
Jenny GK (20:46):
I know that you need to talk to me.
Hang on just a moment while wefinish our sentence and I'll
come back to you.
Caitlin K (20:50):
Exactly, and I will.
Even if he's got his hand on me, I will also touch his hands,
that he knows.
I'm aware that his hand isthere.
And then I can turn to him andI can say I would love to hear
what you have to say.
Give me just a minute.
While I'm I'm I'm talking withthis other adult.
Give me just one moment andthen I will give you my
attention, like I will come findor like, if it's just you're
(21:12):
going to go play again, you justwant to say something.
Okay, I will find you whenthere's a break in this
conversation and you can tell mewhat you wanted to tell me.
So a gentle method is is besthere.
So a gentle method is best hereI agree.
Jenny GK (21:27):
And again, like if it's standard and it's the same
every time, it goes into thoseexpectations, like your kid
knows that this is going to work.
It doesn't work if it doesn'twork Right.
If you ignore the hand or youignore the bump or whatever it
is that you've decided is goingto be your nonverbal.
I need attention signal.
If you ignore that, it doesn'twork Right, it has to get
(21:50):
attention every single time,even if it's, like you said,
just a tap back on the hand likehey, I know you want to talk to
me, but you have to respond toit, otherwise it's not going to
work.
Caitlin K (21:59):
Right, it's, that's, and that's what I'll usually do
is I'll just put my hand youknow exactly where he's got his
hand I just cover his hand upwith mine and he knows I, I see
you, I know you're here, Iunderstand, but you're right,
because otherwise it'll escalateand also you're kind of
violating a trust agreementthere.
If you've said I will respondto you when I can and then you
(22:20):
don't respond, that's, that'snot okay, so that's not going to
help anything, okay.
Okay, the last one we'vealready talked about this before
.
We were being sneaky about it,but we did already talk about it
and that is praise your child.
Okay, always, what's getspraised gets repeated Exactly.
(22:41):
Always.
Call out anything you want tosee more of from your kid.
They put their dishes away.
Call it out, right.
They say please and thank you.
You say, oh, my gosh, thank youso much for using your manners
Like something that gets theirattention so that they know that
made you happy.
Praise goes so much further thanscolding or shame does.
(23:02):
Okay.
So ultimately, remember thatmanners are about kindness,
making other people feel good.
When you raise kids, they alsofeel good.
So just keeping that in mind asyou work on this whole manners
thing is going to be a really,really helpful trick for you
Always praise the things youwant to see more of.
(23:25):
So we've got 10 things here.
We're going to focus onourselves.
Okay, we're going to also frontload vocabulary and pre-teach
the manners, and then at theevent, we're going to make sure
we pay attention to our kid butalso praise anything we see.
So that's a real quick summary,but there are 10 things I've
(23:47):
listed here and I'll put themall on the blog post for this
episode so that you can go backand look, and I'll put the
original source article so youcan read a little bit more about
the expert and get some otherideas.
So, with that short break, beright back.
Bye For links to resourcesmentioned in this episode.
Head on over tockandgkpodcastcom slash blog to
(24:07):
find everything you need, and besure to follow us on social
media.
Head over to your favoritesocial media network and find us
at CK and GK podcast.
And now back to the show.
Jenny GK (24:19):
Are we back?
We're back, we're back.
Okay, I touched you on the handyou did.
Caitlin K (24:23):
It was a gentle interruption.
Thank you, yes, okay.
Do you have any obsessionsright now?
Of course you do, okay, yes,that's the segment of the show I
do, so here's the thing.
Jenny GK (24:32):
I know that it is post-Christmas, okay, but this
year, a few weeks beforeChristmas, no, you cannot.
Yeah, I don't like that either.
Caitlin K (24:43):
I don't like it.
Jenny GK (24:44):
I know that you're excited about it and that's cute
, but no, you can't.
Caitlin K (24:48):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (24:49):
That's so.
Caitlin K (24:49):
ADHD, by the way, to be like.
I don't want to surprise you,but I really want to know if
you're going to like it rightnow.
So can I?
Jenny GK (24:55):
put you right now, or do you want to?
Caitlin K (24:57):
tell you what it is.
Yeah, it's so.
Jenny GK (25:01):
ADHD.
So what he gave me wassomething that goes with our New
Year's Eve tradition, and I'vetalked about this on the show
before.
Every year for New Year's Eve,we get all dolled up and we go
to a big gala.
No, we do not.
No, we do not.
Caitlin K (25:15):
No, I know your tradition Because we are parents
of two children.
I was about to call you out forlying.
Jenny GK (25:18):
So there's no way that we are going to a gala.
No, we watch the mighty ducksand drink soviet block.
Perfect, because on new year'seve of like 2015, we went on a
wine tour in New Zealand and theguy asked us I know you like
Lord of the Rings, which is whyyou're here, but what is your
favorite trilogy of all time?
John says probably Star Wars,and I said, oh, absolutely back
(25:38):
to the future.
No question.
He says okay, well, mine ismighty ducks, and I've never met
another person on this planetwho first considers Mighty Ducks
a trilogy.
It is, secondly, would call itthe greatest of all time okay.
Caitlin K (25:51):
I have a question why is Dior's Back to the Future?
Jenny GK (25:53):
Back to the Future 2 is terrible it is, but it is the
length that is required to havenumber three.
Okay, fair, I gotcha, becausenumber two is bad.
He doesn't get the book way toomany times.
Caitlin K (26:10):
And like let him get the book and it makes it's.
It makes me uncomfortable.
Like there's scenes in each oneof them that make me
uncomfortable, Right Like theone with Biff.
It's always Biff doing Biffthings with the mother, but it's
still like OK, as long as Iunderstand that actor do his bit
of like, stop asking me thequestions.
Jenny GK (26:26):
Yeah, and he sings a song and it's always like what
was it working with michael jfox?
It was fine.
Yeah, I've seen it.
Are you really that mean?
No, no, I'm an actor.
Caitlin K (26:36):
That's what I do, gosh, oh, my goodness, poor guy
um but he's an archetype, likehe's supposed to be a bully.
That's the whole point of thestory.
That's exactly right.
A 50s bully which is like themost stereotypical kind of bully
on the planet, who giveswedgies and like haven't looked
this up, find it.
Jenny GK (26:54):
You can just google.
Caitlin K (26:55):
Stop asking me the questions and you'll see it and
you'll see it, but anyway, so,um, mighty ducks, right.
Jenny GK (27:01):
So every year after that we have drank, uh, the same
bottle of sovino blancanc fromthe winery that buys grapes from
this guy's grandfather.
Also, their winery has arestaurant and we ate there.
Caitlin K (27:14):
So that's where all of this went down.
There's some sentimental stuffwith this.
Jenny GK (27:17):
I gotcha and we watched the Mighty Ducks Perfect
.
Well, this year John got me aMighty Ducks jersey.
Caitlin K (27:24):
Oh, which one, which one?
Oh, okay, one, which one, whichone?
Jenny GK (27:27):
Oh, okay, first off, it's Adam Banks Okay, that's a
good one who we know was likethe linchpin yes, Right, like if
Banks hadn't been in District 5, they would not have gone this
far.
Caitlin K (27:38):
This is true, they needed him.
Jenny GK (27:39):
Right, so is it the Secondly the but secondly the
green it is.
Oh, it is green and it is fromthe first movie, the weird like
cartoon duck with D5 on it.
Yes, that's the one.
Yeah, no, it is not thestylized.
Hey, disney made a movie.
Everyone loved it.
So they bought a hockey teamand moved them to Anaheim and
(27:59):
made a cool logo.
Caitlin K (28:00):
No, no, no, it needed to be the movie jersey.
No, no, no, it needed to be themovie jersey.
No, it is the movie jersey.
Oh yes, well done John.
Jenny GK (28:09):
Well done, it's good, it's really good, so I might
have worn it a couple of timessince then.
Caitlin K (28:14):
Yeah, in public.
Yeah, it's fine.
Jenny GK (28:18):
Dude.
Okay, I dropped my sister, Idropped Abby off at her friend's
house.
Caitlin K (28:24):
Wearing the jersey.
Jenny GK (28:25):
Her friend looks at me .
She was like wow, you're dolledup, aren't you?
Caitlin K (28:30):
teenagers give the meanest shade.
Jenny GK (28:34):
My goodness and it just shows like I have a good
relationship with this kidbecause, remember, I've been her
teacher and I've been herfriend's mom and she's's spent
as many nights here as Abby hasover there.
Caitlin K (28:44):
Right.
Jenny GK (28:45):
But it was too funny that she looked me up and down.
I'm like I'm sorry, what do?
Caitlin K (28:51):
you have on your body right now.
They don't know anything.
They don't know the magic thatis, and your child is as close
to Gen X as possibly could be.
Yeah, so she knows, but theydon't know.
Jenny GK (29:08):
Well, and she doesn't, yeah, so she knows, but they
don't know.
Caitlin K (29:09):
Mighty ducks every year, right she's watched a lot
of mighty ducks right?
Oh gosh, there were.
That reminds me of when we wereon the cruise and we wore the
bad t-shirts, and you actuallywore yours for a long time, you
guys.
My husband got jenny a shirt.
Oh it is so good that ispicture the mayor no, first,
first, no, first.
Jenny GK (29:25):
you need to know, before you know, what picture it
is.
You need to know that it is adry fit t-shirt.
Yes, it is.
It is not a cotton poly blendlike every other t-shirt on the
planet.
Caitlin K (29:34):
No, this is like golf jersey shirt, shiny fabric,
like bicycle jersey, but likeoversized, oversized bicycle
jersey is perfect.
Jenny GK (29:44):
That is the explanation.
Caitlin K (29:45):
Picture the chicken flavor.
Maruchan robin packet orangeyellow says chicken has picture
of noodles.
That is what this shirt is.
Jenny GK (29:56):
I'm not joking and nothing else, and nothing else.
It's not like a picture of thelogo and be like I love ramen.
No, it is just the entire shirtis a package of ramen.
Caitlin K (30:05):
It looks like they.
Jenny GK (30:07):
They took the package of ramen, laid it out and made
it out of it and then cut itinto a shirt?
Caitlin K (30:12):
yes, that's exactly.
Yeah, it looks.
It's hilariously ridiculous.
You were not wearing that.
You were wearing a mighty ducksjersey and you still got shade.
So I think you're the queen ofjust owning it.
That's the thing thing.
And I told my husband this youwere gonna own whatever shirt
you got.
We tried, we thought of so manydifferent things.
There was an eagle one, therewas a majestic, like eagle in
(30:36):
front of a moon.
There were a few things, and Iwas like it doesn't matter how
ridiculous you try to make theshirt, she will find a way to
rock it.
And what happened?
Went out on into classes on theboat and got compliments.
Compliments on your marishanramen shirt.
Yep, so you wear that mightyducks jersey.
(30:58):
You would have gotten so manymore if you had worn a mighty
ducks jersey on that cruise,because disney people would have
been all over that are youkidding me that mighty ducks
jersey is coming with me onevery vacation?
Jenny GK (31:09):
I go on for the rest of my life, yeah it's amazing.
Caitlin K (31:13):
Anyway, my gem is so, or my gem, my obsession, is so
much more basic than that, and Idon't mean like basic, like oh
my god, she's so basic.
I mean like I had oral surgery.
Jenny GK (31:26):
That was part of why we weren't doing episodes y'all,
they took top of her mouth offto put it on another part of her
mouth it's called gum grafting.
Caitlin K (31:34):
It's not fun.
I looked like mrs potato headon.
Jenny GK (31:37):
This is like that surgery where they take fat off
your belly and put it on yourbutt.
Only here they only.
It's the roof of your mouth,your roof of your mouth to the
side of your mouth.
Caitlin K (31:46):
I've been telling people that my mouth, the inside
of my mouth, feels like, youknow, at the end of ferris
bueller's day off, when the thegirl offers the principal a
gummy bear and she's like andthey're real warm because
they've been in my pocket, likethat's what it feels like inside
my mouth.
That's what the roof of mymouth feels like is a warm gummy
(32:09):
bear but like a sticky one.
Jenny GK (32:11):
It's disgusting Right.
Caitlin K (32:13):
So part of the healing process is that you
can't it's like wisdom teeth,where you can't like have any
suction of any sort in yourmouth.
So I couldn't drink out of astraw, but I can drink out of a
straw.
Do you know how hard it is whenyou are have an emotional
support water bottle and you andit has a straw and you can't
use it.
Like what did you?
(32:34):
Have to do, take the lid offyeah, I had to take the lid off,
which is not that big of a deal, right?
but no, it's huge part of theemotional support water that's
like that could just changingyour life.
Jenny GK (32:43):
It really was.
Caitlin K (32:47):
I can drink out of a straw.
Jenny GK (32:49):
It would not be.
Water bottle with straw, itwould be.
How do I drink at a restaurant?
Caitlin K (32:55):
Well, and that's a piece of it too, Like it's not.
You're not going anywhere whenyou have this done because your
mouth is like you're a mess, butit's a warm gummy bear.
It's a warm gummy bear on theinside and that's healing.
That's how it feels like whenit's healing, so that's a good
thing, but it just is disgusting.
(33:16):
But it's the minorinconveniences that you can't
think about.
It's like oh, I really wantedsome sparkling water.
Oh, guess what?
You can't have carbonationbecause the bubbles can like
mess up the grafting process.
So, like all of this stuff,yeah, has been a no-go.
Jenny GK (33:28):
So now we go through a case of sparkling water every
three days in our family.
Caitlin K (33:32):
Well, and I don't drink it all the time, but I do
drink it.
Jenny GK (33:36):
I drink four packages every two weeks, sometimes, more
often than not, always LaCroixtea, lime yeah, most of the time
.
I think right now we also havesome strawberry peach.
Caitlin K (33:46):
We do like the mango also at our house.
The mango is good too.
Jenny GK (33:50):
And the beach plum is good.
Caitlin K (33:52):
Oh, I haven't had that one.
Jenny GK (33:53):
It's good, that's good .
Okay, I'll have to do that.
And then there's that cherrylime one that comes in the tall
skinny cans but that's outsideof our price range.
Yeah, you only get eight.
Right, give me the 12 kidsanyway.
Caitlin K (34:04):
So that's why I'm obsessed with it, because I'm
like my emotional support.
Water bottles are back in mylife.
I'm so happy I'm drinking outof my brugmate now well, and
it's gonna be beneficial to yourskin.
More water yes, more well, andthat's the other thing too is
like you forget, like how much Idrink out of a straw, like, and
I've been doing it because Ihave sensitive teeth, like
that's the whole reason fordoing it.
(34:26):
It helps, like the acid not beon the front of your teeth all
the time if you drink from astraw, so that's why I've been
doing it.
So now I can't drink.
It's been, it's been a mess.
So anyway, I'm happy to havestraws back because they're
wonderful.
Do you have any gems?
Jenny GK (34:40):
Yes, okay, so we have talked about the fact that I've
hurt my knee.
Caitlin K (34:43):
Yes, poor thing, and I'm still in the healing process
.
Jenny GK (34:46):
Yeah, but to help with moving around the house I have
been using one crutch, oh, justthe one, just the one, because I
don't really need to like notput weight on it at all, I just
need help like stabilizing.
Okay, because then my knee candefinitely hold weight Like I
could stand on one leg if Iwanted to.
Sure, it's the like.
(35:07):
I don't trust it and Idefinitely can't straighten or
bend it all the way.
It kind of just hangs out atthis 120-degree angle all day
long.
Oh, which has given me reallynice calves on my other side,
I'm sure.
Yeah, for real.
But I've been walking aroundwith one crutch and John's been
(35:27):
calling me Gandalf.
He has walked around behind mein the house playing the Lord of
the Rings music.
Stop it.
Caitlin K (35:34):
While I hobble around .
That's not nice.
Well it's funny, we went onvacation.
Jenny GK (35:39):
Okay, oh, it's hilarious.
Caitlin K (35:40):
Yeah, it's very funny .
Jenny GK (35:41):
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all, if it did, he
would not do it.
Sure, no, I think it's funny.
And also this whole injury isfunny.
I hurt myself jumping up anddown.
Let's be real, yeah, you did Notplaying a sport, not doing
something like crazy athletic orlike, oh yeah, I was in the X
Games and I hurt myself.
No, I was passing out teacherpresents and said Merry
Christmas.
Oh, that just made a sound.
Anyway, we are staying at ahotel recently that has a lot of
(36:05):
bridges through the atrium,because there's like a river
that runs through the hotel andI'm hobbling along with my one
little crutch, and now my wholefamily is making fun of me.
Oh, come on, Gandalf, get along.
Where's your robe?
Caitlin K (36:21):
Well, I stop on one of these bridges and then the
loudest voice yes, I did, yes, Idid.
Jenny GK (36:26):
I slammed the crutch down and called out you shall
not pass as loud as I could inthis seven-story atrium.
And it echoes through the.
Oh my goodness, I was like I'mgonna own this guys.
Caitlin K (36:42):
Yeah, you are just like you said gotta own it
comfort.
Right, you got, you can't.
No downward social comparison.
That is the name of jenny'sgame.
I dive embarrassment for herand myself, and yet she's like
no, I'm gonna wear the ramenshirt, I'm gonna be gandalf on
this bridge no, I'm, I'mseriously considering a cloak
(37:05):
and the deal deal is John hassaid like I'll buy you two.
Jenny GK (37:08):
You can be Gandalf the Grey until you're healed and
then, when you're better, youcan be the white and we'll get
you a white cloak.
Caitlin K (37:18):
It's too bad that Halloween's over, right, because
this would be a really goodHalloween costume.
Jenny GK (37:22):
Well, according to some research, it could be nine
months before I'm back on myfeet.
Caitlin K (37:28):
Okay, so perfect.
It might be right in time, itmight be just in time, perfect,
great, oh gosh.
Jenny GK (37:34):
It's all right, it's funny.
Yeah, it's like a new littleaccessory I get to wear all the
time.
Yay, I wonder if they make kneebraces in like different colors
.
Caitlin K (37:45):
We're going to bedazzle it.
Jenny GK (37:46):
Right knee uh, knee braces in like different colors.
We're gonna bedazzle it, right?
That joke has already been madetoo about the cane.
Like if I have to get a cane,you know it's gonna be like the
flashiest, like most americ, uh,most amazing cane ever yeah,
get some inspiration from tomhaverford when he was looking at
dragon serpent yes dragon right, right.
Caitlin K (38:03):
Um, okay, mine is is that I compared women's anatomy
to a car.
Wait, what?
So?
My son was having those sexeducation courses that they do
at the end of the term inDecember in Austin schools.
One day he was like so like, Iknow like a little bit more
(38:27):
about stuff, but like, is awoman's body like harder?
And I was like what do you mean?
He's like, is it just harder tobe a girl like, is it just
harder?
Jenny GK (38:36):
and in my head I'm screaming like yes, yes, it is
smash that patriarchy right now,right well, and I think he just
meant physically.
Caitlin K (38:45):
No, of course I know, the answer is still a
resounding yes, like yes, yes,no.
Jenny GK (38:50):
That's one of those times where you really have to
think about what question isbeing asked right, exactly.
Caitlin K (38:55):
Um, am I really gonna answer this?
No, right, but I did, becauseof course I did so I was like,
well, can you?
And he's like I, just like oneof my friends who I'm not gonna
name on the show it was likeit's just all the stuff that
goes into being a girl justseems like a lot and like she
was like I don't want to dopuberty and girl same okay, but
(39:16):
you know, hopefully you do ifthey want, if if people wanted
to do it, they'd give it abetter name.
Jenny GK (39:22):
That's a horrible word .
I hate that word.
Caitlin K (39:24):
Right, that's what I'm saying, so um they call it
like super happy fun time rightand middle school would be
called awesome school right, itwould not suck nearly as much as
it does anyway.
So, um, I was like, well, yeah,it's like it just kind of needs
(39:45):
more.
Yeah, it's like it just kind ofneeds more maintenance.
And he was like what?
And I just went like you knowlike how, like you, there's just
more parts that need to belooked after and it's harder to
get to them because of wherethey are.
It's like when you take yourcar to the shop and they have to
open up the hood and then lookinside the engine.
(40:07):
And then I think at one point Ijust went, just stop talking.
Just stop talking right now,because he's already moved on.
Jenny GK (40:14):
Yeah, and like I mean, I thought the metaphor worked.
Number one oh, it totally does.
Yeah, I drove an f-150 from the90s for a long time and you
could climb inside that engineblock to work on that car oh my,
I did so much maintenance on itmyself.
Caitlin K (40:29):
Wow, good for you.
Jenny GK (40:31):
In the car I drive now , like the whole thing's wrapped
in plastic, like I don't evenknow where the engine is.
I mean, I do I'm not that dumb,but still like everything is in
a container and it's hard tofind and it's not easy to get in
there and maintain it.
Caitlin K (40:44):
They do it on purpose , so you have to take it in
together.
Jenny GK (40:47):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, okay.
The other thing is the way Inormally handle these questions
is much like you just did.
I just throw all the science inthat I can, yeah, and make it
as boring and as medicinal aspossible.
Yeah, and I'm, I'm like, oh anduse.
(41:08):
I use all the anatomical wordsand just over and, over and over
again and just keep natteringuntil the kid is like okay, mom,
I'm done.
Caitlin K (41:17):
Well, and that's, and I'm pretty sure he turned.
Jenny GK (41:19):
Everything I told you is true.
It's just really boring the wayI presented it.
Caitlin K (41:22):
Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out pretty
quickly.
Jenny GK (41:42):
But Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out
pretty quickly.
But I just, at some point I wasjust like why did I do this?
Why did I say it like this,where I'm like, well, and then
you have to take it to the shopand then people who are in there
don't always know what they'redoing.
Sometimes you get an oil leakand blah blah.
Caitlin K (41:49):
I'm just like why am I talking about this?
Just stop talking.
When you get those back tiresup in the stirrups, when you get
those back tires up in thestirrups, it's like this is real
, oh, car fart Anyway.
So that's what I did.
That was my gem, ridiculous.
Jenny GK (41:59):
It's amazing.
Caitlin K (42:00):
Don't do it, All right y'all, it's not good
manners.
Jenny GK (42:06):
Yes, when you are thinking about the beauty that
is the female body, unless it isa 67 Mustang, don't compare it
to a car or a Shelby GT4.
Okay, that's a Shelby or, or II.
My number one favorite car isthe Ford Galaxy 500 XL Sunliner,
(42:27):
but nobody knows what that is,because it didn't do very well.
Yeah, but its taillights looklike rockets, so of course it
like makes it.
Oh yeah, it was a total nerdcar, yeah Well don't wait, make
good choices.
Caitlin K (42:39):
Yeah, don't don't do that.
I'm going to create a veryunhealthy obsession with some
guy and his car at this pointwith this conversation.
So I'm just going to move on,and manners are about making
people feel comfortable, unlikethis last.
You know four minutes of ourconversation here, so we're just
gonna go.
Okay, okay, okay, bye.
Pardon me, but may I alert you that it is Tuesday.
Caitlin K (00:07):
You get me.
Every time.
I never know how you're goingto do this.
I'm always surprised.
Welcome back, guys.
It's good to have you here.
This is how to Be a Grown-Upthe show that teaches you the
things that grown-ups need toknow how to do.
Yeah, yeah.
This week we are talking aboutteaching kids to have good
(00:32):
manners.
Personally, this is something Ireally struggle with, not
because I don't want my child tohave manners, but because I, or
because he's rude or anythinglike that, because he's not,
because I am self-consciousabout his manners, like oh wait,
you make it about you.
Yes, of course, who doesn't?
Jenny GK (00:51):
That sounds like me.
Caitlin K (00:52):
It's always about me, are you kidding?
Um, I'm just on high alertabout how I'm perceived by other
people.
It's just a self-consciousnessissue, and manners are a big
part of that, but I'll get intoall of that in just a minute.
Jenny GK (01:06):
So first, before we do that, we've got to introduce
each other With me today isCaitlin, who's not Emily Post,
she's Emily the most.
Caitlin K (01:16):
Oh, I like that one.
It's very apropos.
This is Jenny, my majesticsoaring condor.
Jenny GK (01:26):
Wow, I have seen the condor.
Have you?
Yes, so at the San Diego WildAnimal Park which is not the zoo
, it's the one out in the hillsthat's like more natural
enclosures they have a condorenclosure, oh cool, and they're
like one of the organizationsresponsible for like bringing
condors back to nature.
But they're huge of theorganizations responsible for
like bringing condors back tonature.
Caitlin K (01:46):
But they're huge, they're really big.
So my sources for today are anarticle, of course, by Emma
Singer, who I adore, on PureWow,and she has some additional
support from Suzanne Zuckerman,and they interviewed a mental
health expert named JenniferKelman.
She's a clinical social workerand she's got a lot of good
(02:08):
credentials that you can checkout on the article.
The article is called how toTeach Kids Manners Parenting
Tips for Polite Kids, accordingto a child therapist.
So I actually read through thisarticle several times just
trying to make sure that I agreewith everything that I saw
there.
As you and I do as we vet thesources.
I liked everything on this list.
I didn't really like how itkind of jumped around from one
(02:31):
thing to another thing, so Irearranged the order of how this
works just to categorize a fewthings, and I'll go through each
of those in just a second.
But I want to start by saying Ithink we've gone over this
before.
You know, sam has likeaffirmations that we say every
day.
Jenny GK (02:46):
Right, right Right.
Caitlin K (02:47):
So we always start with you know, be nice to each
other, or be nice to peoplearound you, be kind, right, um,
listen to your teacher, listento your body.
And then there's a couple otherones Be nice to everyone, try
stuff like that.
Okay, I can do hard things,things like that.
So one of them is be nice toeveryone, stuff like that, okay,
I can do hard things, thingslike that.
So one of them is be nice toeveryone.
And I think that having goodmanners falls under that rule.
(03:11):
Absolutely, um, I've alwaysmaintained that manners really
do two things.
One, they help you feelcomfortable around other people
and help others feel comfortablearound you.
Jenny GK (03:25):
Okay, okay, so here's the science behind that.
Caitlin K (03:28):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (03:29):
There are communal expectations, and nothing feels
worse than unmet expectations.
So when there are rules abouthow we engage, we know what to
expect and so we feel morecomfortable because there's not
unknown out there.
Caitlin K (03:44):
oh so like manners are just psychology yeah, that
makes that makes a lot of sense.
I also think that they're.
I mean, it's just aboutrespecting other people, right
like on the surface.
It's respect for other people.
Jenny GK (03:58):
So um, and the respect is shown by by treating them
the way they expect to betreated, so they're not
surprised by what you do.
Caitlin K (04:05):
Right.
So when I get nervous aroundnew people or settings, or when
my son gets nervous around newpeople or settings, I say things
like if we remember our manners, we're leading with kindness,
which is one of our family rules, and everyone feels less
nervous when we just lead withkindness.
Right, can we?
Jenny GK (04:24):
talk about that being one of your family rules.
Yeah, because you know that myfamily rule is we don't waste
meat.
Caitlin K (04:32):
We have another one too.
It's Moran's eat meat.
We also have that.
When my sister said she was,she was like guys, I think I'm
going to be a vegetarian.
My other sister goes whatMoran's eat meat.
Like guys, I think I'm going tobe a vegetarian.
My other sister goes whatMarantz eat meat my favorite
(04:53):
lines ever.
It cracked me up, but like no,we just, whenever we're having
conversations about, you know,political things or just people
being mean to each other, orpeople make comments on other
people's bodies, we always comeback to this is how we treat
others with kindness, like welead by kindness.
So that's really what this isabout.
Um, there are some FAQs that goalong with this that I wanted
(05:14):
to point out.
Yeah, so I'm going to startwith those.
One is when should they learnmanners?
Well, I mean anyone who'strying to teach a baby to say
thank you, like let it go, Right, but think about the natural
age of socialization, right,Like, once we get into a
situation where there's otherpeople that we are interacting
with, that's probably the righttime to start doing that.
(05:35):
Not infant daycare, not theclass for one year olds, for
one-year-olds, but, like youknow, when kids are able to
speak to one another and wherewe've moved past the, you know
we don't hit stage.
Jenny GK (05:51):
Maybe it's, maybe that's a good time to start
introducing these things well,and it's one of those things
that when you're at that agewhere you're narrating your day
for your kid yeah, that's whenyou can start to talk about what
you're doing.
I'm going to say please,because I know that person
appreciates it when I ask kindlywe get into that, or I will get
(06:11):
into that too in just a minute.
Caitlin K (06:12):
But basically, like those typical kid behaviors that
can come off as rude, you cannarrate those situations and
that's probably about the righttime when you would start this
teaching.
What manner should kids learn?
These are hard because everyoneperceives manners differently.
(06:33):
So, in terms of what mannerskids should learn, try not to
focus on hard and fast rules.
Everybody's manners looksdifferent regionally and all
that kind of stuff, so don'tcommit yourself to hard and fast
.
Kids need to learn this by thisage.
Just pay attention to what'sactually happening and use it as
an opportunity to teach themanner, as opposed to okay, well
(06:57):
, first we're going to talkabout thank you and then we're
going to talk about please.
That doesn't work for anybody.
Then the last one is what do Ido when kids forget their
manners, forget?
There are quotes around theword forget.
Just remember that I said.
Manners are about like your ownor my own discomfort, right?
(07:18):
I think one of the first thingsyou need to do is own that
discomfort, right.
Like you're embarrassed thatyour kid forgets their manners.
It's not.
Your kid isn't embarrassed.
They forgot their manners.
You, as the parent, areembarrassed that they forgot
their manners, right.
So I think owning that and thentrying to stay calm and then
either some sort of apology towhoever needs to hear it or
(07:39):
whatever, is probablyappropriate.
But then don't come down onyour kid in that moment.
Just find an opportune time totalk about it and we'll get to
that in just a second.
Okay, actually, teaching mannersAgain, I've categorized these
for my own self to make sense ofit.
So start with yourself whenyou're coming to this whole
(08:02):
teaching manners topic.
One be a role model.
Do not command your child tosay and do specific things like
say please and thank you, butinstead model the behavior that
you wish to see.
We've talked about this overand over and over again on this
(08:22):
show and, especially as teachers, we know modeling the behavior
that you wish to see is going tobe the best way to get this
started and it creates buy-inabsolutely it's right.
I'm not asking you to dosomething that I'm not gonna do
myself exactly so when you dothat, you're also opening the
(08:43):
door for conversation about thevalue of manners.
Right, making other people feelcomfortable, instead of just
parroting you by saying pleaseand thank you because mom said,
say please, say thank you, ordoing it just because you told
them to.
So, along those lines, don'tforce good manners.
They won't get used if you'renot around.
(09:05):
If you try to force them, right, that very common what do you
say?
Or oh, that was so nice of AuntBlanche, she gave you a
lollipop.
Say thank you.
That's not teaching.
You think it is, but it's not.
It's forcing.
So there's two problems withthat.
One why do your kids clean uparound the house?
(09:28):
Because you told them to overand over and over again.
Not because they actually carethat it's clean, not because
they see the value of cleaningup.
So, just like when you don'ttell them to, they don't clean
up, right?
Same thing here when you forcemanners, you tell them that they
have to say please or say thankyou.
They won't use them when you'renot around, just like they
(09:52):
don't clean up unless you tellthem to.
Jenny GK (09:54):
Oh wait, they don't.
Mm-mm.
Oh, okay.
Well, I haven't been in Abby'sroom in six months, so I'm not
quite sure what it looks like.
Caitlin K (10:07):
That month, so I'm not quite sure what it looks
like.
That's because she's a teenager.
I think it has carpeting Right.
You got to stay out of there.
That's a teenager's room.
Yeah Two, you're not givingyour child the opportunity to
develop that thoughtful andempathetic frame of mind that is
the foundation of having goodmanners, right?
So instead of doing the what doyou say?
Sort of line, instead you'regoing to do the polite thing for
(10:29):
your child and in front of them, and then later on you'll have
a private conversation at a timeand place when your child won't
feel embarrassed or ashamed fornot using their manners.
So, for example, wasn't that sonice of Aunt Blanche to give
you that lollipop?
Did you hear me say thank youto her?
That's because I wanted to lether know that you and I
(10:51):
appreciated her kindness ingiving you that lollipop.
It makes people feel good whenwe show them that we appreciate
them, and that can make us feelgood too.
Jenny GK (11:01):
Got it, got it.
Caitlin K (11:02):
Yeah.
So again, you're modeling andthen explaining.
The third thing you're going todo is rethink your notion of
misbehavior, and this should sayCaitlin, you need to rethink
your notion of misbehavior,because misbehavior and age
appropriate things tend tooverlap quite a bit here.
(11:22):
Right, being obsessed withraising polite kids can actually
cause you me, all of us tojudge our own children for their
developmentally appropriatebehavior.
And judgment has absolutely noplace in parenting, whether
that's you of another parent oryou of your child.
(11:45):
Right, right, hands down.
When I read that line from thechild psychologist, I was
absolutely in agreement withthat one.
So along those lines, judgmentdoesn't have any place in
parenting.
Neither does shame Keep shameout of this.
It doesn't work on your kid.
Neither does shame Keep shameout of this, it doesn't work on
(12:07):
your kid.
And ultimately, the shame thatyou feel about your child not
using their manners needs to belet go of also.
Okay, chances are pretty highthat aunt Blanche didn't even
notice that one missing thankyou from your kid.
So let it go.
And the other thing is, youknow what else?
Other parents get it, the oneswho don't get it, uh, to have
just shown you that you're nothaving another play date with
(12:29):
them again.
The end Wow, it's true.
How many parents like I thinkthat that's one of the beautiful
things about our generation ofparenting is that we're all like
girl, don't worry aboutcleaning up your house before I
show up, I don't care, becausewe all understand that this is
hard, right?
So the parent who's like um,your child did not say thank you
(12:52):
for the popsicle that I gavehim after he got off the
trampoline is going to like what.
I'm not sending my kid backover to you again, thanks.
Jenny GK (13:01):
Yeah, or they're like me and be like okay, I'm going
to give everybody a popsicle,and what?
Caitlin K (13:06):
are you?
Jenny GK (13:06):
all going to say when I give it to you, right?
Caitlin K (13:10):
I'd rather that, like I give a reminder beforehand,
right?
Okay, so the second littlecategory that we're talking
about is front loading.
We've talked about this termbefore.
This is my major belief inteaching.
It's my major belief in everysingle thing that I learn and
that other people learn.
I believe that you need to havethe vocabulary in order to be a
(13:31):
functioning member of acommunity, right?
So we're going to, with manners, front load the vocabulary.
What I mean is pre teachmanners, okay.
Jenny GK (13:42):
Got it, got it.
Caitlin K (13:42):
So that doesn't mean pre-teaching like please and
thank you.
That's not what we're gettingat.
We're talking about having,first of all, regular
conversations about caring forother people.
Okay, Remember what I saidearlier about how manners are
about respect.
Whenever you can just have aconversation about how we show
kindness and respect to others,If the opportunity arises, say
(14:10):
things like oh, we don't commenton other people's bodies, or if
someone can fix that in fiveminutes, then you can tell them
that they have something intheir teeth.
If they can't fix it in fiveminutes, then we don't say
anything about it at all.
Right, Stuff like that, Exactly.
The other another way you canfront load the vocabulary or
pre-teach the manners is playgames that teach manners right,
when you're having a situationin which you would be modeling.
(14:30):
Pretend play for those youngerkids is great here, when they
want to play restaurant or house.
This is the time to teach themanners right.
You can intentionally model.
Oh, thank you so much forbringing me my dinner.
Meanwhile it's like you know, abox of crayons and some tape,
but whatever, it's fine.
(14:51):
Thank you so much for bringingme my dinner.
It's great.
Okay For older kids.
Jenny GK (14:52):
You're going to think, or this is cold, Would you
please bring it back to the chefand tell him to refire it?
I said it politely.
Yes, you did.
Caitlin K (15:02):
Okay For older kids.
Think about other things youmight play, like card games,
board games, any opportunitythat you have to talk about
taking turns, being honest andbeing a good sport.
All of those are goodopportunities to teach manners.
Again, you're just modelingthem.
You're not necessarily sayinglike well, I passed out these
seven cards to you.
(15:23):
It's time for you to say thankyou, right, yeah, you're going
to also consider watching TVshows that model good manners.
What have we said before?
Daniel Tiger can raise my childbecause and he did for an
entire year.
Bless the pandemic.
Jenny GK (15:42):
Thank you, 2020.
Right.
Caitlin K (15:44):
Again, this kind of applies to younger kids.
Like Daniel Tiger is a youngerkid show, but things like Sesame
street and Mr Rogersneighborhood and Blippi Daniel
Tiger they all are greatopportunities to teach manners,
because all of those shows areprimarily about being kind to
other people, Right so?
Jenny GK (16:00):
and as your kid gets older, just put on great British
bakingaking Show.
Caitlin K (16:03):
They are also kind.
See, I'm starting to like thatshow.
I'm so happy, so happy.
He's like can we watch GreatBritish Baking Show?
I'm like, yeah, which season?
5 through 12.
Jenny GK (16:15):
Nadia's season.
Every year Nadia's season.
Caitlin K (16:18):
I like Sahul, I mean precious.
Jenny GK (16:21):
Understandable yes.
Caitlin K (16:22):
Precious, right, okay , you can also again, we're
front-loading the vocabularyhere.
We're pre-teaching thosemanners Read books that
emphasize social and emotionallearning, because those books
are primarily about caring andshowing respect for others.
So I have a list here.
This is just a sample, butthese are some of my favorites
that we have in our house.
(16:42):
So one is the Rainbow Fish byMarcus Pfister I Am Enough.
By Grace Byers, which isbeautiful.
It's like poetry.
I love that book.
Jabari Jumps by Gaia Cornwall,I love Jabari Jumps.
It is the sweetest little book.
The Invisible Boy by PatriceBarton, the Boy with Big, big
(17:03):
Feelings, which is a popular one.
I've seen around a lot latelybut that one's by Brittany Wynne
Lee and one of our favoriteseries in our house the Bad Seed
, the Good Egg, the Smart Cookiethose are all great ones the
Couch Potato.
Jenny GK (17:15):
The Couch Potato is a great one.
That's the favorite one in ourhouse.
Caitlin K (17:18):
Yep, we do like that one too, and those are all by
Jory John and the illustrator isPete Oswalt and it's they're
all amazing.
So those are some great ones.
And the that bad seed good eggones, those get really good for
older kids too.
Yeah, okay.
So we've talked about workingon yourself, we've talked about
pre-teaching.
(17:38):
Now we're going to talk aboutwhat happens when you're
actually at the event, where themanners need to be happening,
where my anxiety just spikedeven thinking about this
particular category.
So when you're at the event,whatever it might be, first of
all, most important thing, donot treat your child like they
(17:59):
are the third wheel.
Why I want to be here and hangout with adults and talk to
adults, because this is foradult time.
Uh, no, this one should beobvious, because if you ignore
your kid at an event, what willyour kid do?
Jenny GK (18:16):
They will absolutely get your attention.
Caitlin K (18:18):
Find a way to make sure you don't ignore them,
right?
You already know what thatmeans.
In my experience, it means Imight be dragging my child out
in a football hold, just sayingI prefer a fireman's carry.
That's a good one too, but Ihave been kicked.
I have been kneed in the face.
Jenny GK (18:39):
So I choose the football yeah.
Okay.
Caitlin K (18:42):
Yeah, if you have.
If you are lucky enough to beat an event where there are
multiple children, you mightencourage some child play time.
However, if it's you and anadult and then your child is
there, you're going to want tofind a way to include them in an
age appropriate way in whateverconversation you're having.
(19:02):
So if it means that you'reasking them what their favorite
color is great, no problem.
But if you can't happen toengage them in the conversation
in that moment, I like to put myhand on a shoulder or just kind
of color, along with my childor something, just so that he
(19:22):
knows I'm still there, he stillhas my attention, he's not
forgotten about, even though I'mengaged in a discussion with
another adult.
Jenny GK (19:31):
Right, Right, and I think this kind of parlays into
the next point you have aboutthe minimizing interruptions.
Because this is a big thing inour family is like there is a
way for you to tell me that youneed attention that is positive
and will get attention.
Caitlin K (19:47):
Now, emergency situations are not what we're
talking about here.
Jenny GK (19:52):
Oh yeah, no, come on.
If there's a dog like you needto tell me there's a dog, I want
to pet this dog.
That's an emergency.
Caitlin K (20:00):
Dog equals emergency, okay.
Hug equals emergency, okay.
But in the event that you can'tpossibly get your child to
leave you alone for thisconversation, you're going to
work on gentle interruptionmethods, okay?
So my favorite one is having mychild just put his hand, like
(20:23):
on my hand or on my elbow,somewhere on my on my hand or on
my elbow, somewhere on myforearm.
He knows that he can touch thatpart of me and that that means
he's got something to say, andthen he knows that I will break
for the like, find a break inthe conversation and then turn
my attention to him in thatmoment we do the same, and it's
(20:43):
normally some kind of responseof like okay, I hear you.
Jenny GK (20:46):
I know that you need to talk to me.
Hang on just a moment while wefinish our sentence and I'll
come back to you.
Caitlin K (20:50):
Exactly, and I will.
Even if he's got his hand on me, I will also touch his hands,
that he knows.
I'm aware that his hand isthere.
And then I can turn to him andI can say I would love to hear
what you have to say.
Give me just a minute.
While I'm I'm I'm talking withthis other adult.
Give me just one moment andthen I will give you my
attention, like I will come findor like, if it's just you're
(21:12):
going to go play again, you justwant to say something.
Okay, I will find you whenthere's a break in this
conversation and you can tell mewhat you wanted to tell me.
So a gentle method is is besthere.
So a gentle method is best hereI agree.
Jenny GK (21:27):
And again, like if it's standard and it's the same
every time, it goes into thoseexpectations, like your kid
knows that this is going to work.
It doesn't work if it doesn'twork Right.
If you ignore the hand or youignore the bump or whatever it
is that you've decided is goingto be your nonverbal.
I need attention signal.
If you ignore that, it doesn'twork Right, it has to get
(21:50):
attention every single time,even if it's, like you said,
just a tap back on the hand likehey, I know you want to talk to
me, but you have to respond toit, otherwise it's not going to
work.
Caitlin K (21:59):
Right, it's, that's, and that's what I'll usually do
is I'll just put my hand youknow exactly where he's got his
hand I just cover his hand upwith mine and he knows I, I see
you, I know you're here, Iunderstand, but you're right,
because otherwise it'll escalateand also you're kind of
violating a trust agreementthere.
If you've said I will respondto you when I can and then you
(22:20):
don't respond, that's, that'snot okay, so that's not going to
help anything, okay.
Okay, the last one we'vealready talked about this before
.
We were being sneaky about it,but we did already talk about it
and that is praise your child.
Okay, always, what's getspraised gets repeated Exactly.
(22:41):
Always.
Call out anything you want tosee more of from your kid.
They put their dishes away.
Call it out, right.
They say please and thank you.
You say, oh, my gosh, thank youso much for using your manners
Like something that gets theirattention so that they know that
made you happy.
Praise goes so much further thanscolding or shame does.
(23:02):
Okay.
So ultimately, remember thatmanners are about kindness,
making other people feel good.
When you raise kids, they alsofeel good.
So just keeping that in mind asyou work on this whole manners
thing is going to be a really,really helpful trick for you
Always praise the things youwant to see more of.
(23:25):
So we've got 10 things here.
We're going to focus onourselves.
Okay, we're going to also frontload vocabulary and pre-teach
the manners, and then at theevent, we're going to make sure
we pay attention to our kid butalso praise anything we see.
So that's a real quick summary,but there are 10 things I've
(23:47):
listed here and I'll put themall on the blog post for this
episode so that you can go backand look, and I'll put the
original source article so youcan read a little bit more about
the expert and get some otherideas.
So, with that short break, beright back.
Bye For links to resourcesmentioned in this episode.
Head on over tockandgkpodcastcom slash blog to
(24:07):
find everything you need, and besure to follow us on social
media.
Head over to your favoritesocial media network and find us
at CK and GK podcast.
And now back to the show.
Jenny GK (24:19):
Are we back?
We're back, we're back.
Okay, I touched you on the handyou did.
Caitlin K (24:23):
It was a gentle interruption.
Thank you, yes, okay.
Do you have any obsessionsright now?
Of course you do, okay, yes,that's the segment of the show I
do, so here's the thing.
Jenny GK (24:32):
I know that it is post-Christmas, okay, but this
year, a few weeks beforeChristmas, no, you cannot.
Yeah, I don't like that either.
Caitlin K (24:43):
I don't like it.
Jenny GK (24:44):
I know that you're excited about it and that's cute
, but no, you can't.
Caitlin K (24:48):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (24:49):
That's so.
Caitlin K (24:49):
ADHD, by the way, to be like.
I don't want to surprise you,but I really want to know if
you're going to like it rightnow.
So can I?
Jenny GK (24:55):
put you right now, or do you want to?
Caitlin K (24:57):
tell you what it is.
Yeah, it's so.
Jenny GK (25:01):
ADHD.
So what he gave me wassomething that goes with our New
Year's Eve tradition, and I'vetalked about this on the show
before.
Every year for New Year's Eve,we get all dolled up and we go
to a big gala.
No, we do not.
No, we do not.
Caitlin K (25:15):
No, I know your tradition Because we are parents
of two children.
I was about to call you out forlying.
Jenny GK (25:18):
So there's no way that we are going to a gala.
No, we watch the mighty ducksand drink soviet block.
Perfect, because on new year'seve of like 2015, we went on a
wine tour in New Zealand and theguy asked us I know you like
Lord of the Rings, which is whyyou're here, but what is your
favorite trilogy of all time?
John says probably Star Wars,and I said, oh, absolutely back
(25:38):
to the future.
No question.
He says okay, well, mine ismighty ducks, and I've never met
another person on this planetwho first considers Mighty Ducks
a trilogy.
It is, secondly, would call itthe greatest of all time okay.
Caitlin K (25:51):
I have a question why is Dior's Back to the Future?
Jenny GK (25:53):
Back to the Future 2 is terrible it is, but it is the
length that is required to havenumber three.
Okay, fair, I gotcha, becausenumber two is bad.
He doesn't get the book way toomany times.
Caitlin K (26:10):
And like let him get the book and it makes it's.
It makes me uncomfortable.
Like there's scenes in each oneof them that make me
uncomfortable, Right Like theone with Biff.
It's always Biff doing Biffthings with the mother, but it's
still like OK, as long as Iunderstand that actor do his bit
of like, stop asking me thequestions.
Jenny GK (26:26):
Yeah, and he sings a song and it's always like what
was it working with michael jfox?
It was fine.
Yeah, I've seen it.
Are you really that mean?
No, no, I'm an actor.
Caitlin K (26:36):
That's what I do, gosh, oh, my goodness, poor guy
um but he's an archetype, likehe's supposed to be a bully.
That's the whole point of thestory.
That's exactly right.
A 50s bully which is like themost stereotypical kind of bully
on the planet, who giveswedgies and like haven't looked
this up, find it.
Jenny GK (26:54):
You can just google.
Caitlin K (26:55):
Stop asking me the questions and you'll see it and
you'll see it, but anyway, so,um, mighty ducks, right.
Jenny GK (27:01):
So every year after that we have drank, uh, the same
bottle of sovino blancanc fromthe winery that buys grapes from
this guy's grandfather.
Also, their winery has arestaurant and we ate there.
Caitlin K (27:14):
So that's where all of this went down.
There's some sentimental stuffwith this.
Jenny GK (27:17):
I gotcha and we watched the Mighty Ducks Perfect
.
Well, this year John got me aMighty Ducks jersey.
Caitlin K (27:24):
Oh, which one, which one?
Oh, okay, one, which one, whichone?
Jenny GK (27:27):
Oh, okay, first off, it's Adam Banks Okay, that's a
good one who we know was likethe linchpin yes, Right, like if
Banks hadn't been in District 5, they would not have gone this
far.
Caitlin K (27:38):
This is true, they needed him.
Jenny GK (27:39):
Right, so is it the Secondly the but secondly the
green it is.
Oh, it is green and it is fromthe first movie, the weird like
cartoon duck with D5 on it.
Yes, that's the one.
Yeah, no, it is not thestylized.
Hey, disney made a movie.
Everyone loved it.
So they bought a hockey teamand moved them to Anaheim and
(27:59):
made a cool logo.
Caitlin K (28:00):
No, no, no, it needed to be the movie jersey.
No, no, no, it needed to be themovie jersey.
No, it is the movie jersey.
Oh yes, well done John.
Jenny GK (28:09):
Well done, it's good, it's really good, so I might
have worn it a couple of timessince then.
Caitlin K (28:14):
Yeah, in public.
Yeah, it's fine.
Jenny GK (28:18):
Dude.
Okay, I dropped my sister, Idropped Abby off at her friend's
house.
Caitlin K (28:24):
Wearing the jersey.
Jenny GK (28:25):
Her friend looks at me .
She was like wow, you're dolledup, aren't you?
Caitlin K (28:30):
teenagers give the meanest shade.
Jenny GK (28:34):
My goodness and it just shows like I have a good
relationship with this kidbecause, remember, I've been her
teacher and I've been herfriend's mom and she's's spent
as many nights here as Abby hasover there.
Caitlin K (28:44):
Right.
Jenny GK (28:45):
But it was too funny that she looked me up and down.
I'm like I'm sorry, what do?
Caitlin K (28:51):
you have on your body right now.
They don't know anything.
They don't know the magic thatis, and your child is as close
to Gen X as possibly could be.
Yeah, so she knows, but theydon't know.
Jenny GK (29:08):
Well, and she doesn't, yeah, so she knows, but they
don't know.
Caitlin K (29:09):
Mighty ducks every year, right she's watched a lot
of mighty ducks right?
Oh gosh, there were.
That reminds me of when we wereon the cruise and we wore the
bad t-shirts, and you actuallywore yours for a long time, you
guys.
My husband got jenny a shirt.
Oh it is so good that ispicture the mayor no, first,
first, no, first.
Jenny GK (29:25):
you need to know, before you know, what picture it
is.
You need to know that it is adry fit t-shirt.
Yes, it is.
It is not a cotton poly blendlike every other t-shirt on the
planet.
Caitlin K (29:34):
No, this is like golf jersey shirt, shiny fabric,
like bicycle jersey, but likeoversized, oversized bicycle
jersey is perfect.
Jenny GK (29:44):
That is the explanation.
Caitlin K (29:45):
Picture the chicken flavor.
Maruchan robin packet orangeyellow says chicken has picture
of noodles.
That is what this shirt is.
Jenny GK (29:56):
I'm not joking and nothing else, and nothing else.
It's not like a picture of thelogo and be like I love ramen.
No, it is just the entire shirtis a package of ramen.
Caitlin K (30:05):
It looks like they.
Jenny GK (30:07):
They took the package of ramen, laid it out and made
it out of it and then cut itinto a shirt?
Caitlin K (30:12):
yes, that's exactly.
Yeah, it looks.
It's hilariously ridiculous.
You were not wearing that.
You were wearing a mighty ducksjersey and you still got shade.
So I think you're the queen ofjust owning it.
That's the thing thing.
And I told my husband this youwere gonna own whatever shirt
you got.
We tried, we thought of so manydifferent things.
There was an eagle one, therewas a majestic, like eagle in
(30:36):
front of a moon.
There were a few things, and Iwas like it doesn't matter how
ridiculous you try to make theshirt, she will find a way to
rock it.
And what happened?
Went out on into classes on theboat and got compliments.
Compliments on your marishanramen shirt.
Yep, so you wear that mightyducks jersey.
(30:58):
You would have gotten so manymore if you had worn a mighty
ducks jersey on that cruise,because disney people would have
been all over that are youkidding me that mighty ducks
jersey is coming with me onevery vacation?
Jenny GK (31:09):
I go on for the rest of my life, yeah it's amazing.
Caitlin K (31:13):
Anyway, my gem is so, or my gem, my obsession, is so
much more basic than that, and Idon't mean like basic, like oh
my god, she's so basic.
I mean like I had oral surgery.
Jenny GK (31:26):
That was part of why we weren't doing episodes y'all,
they took top of her mouth offto put it on another part of her
mouth it's called gum grafting.
Caitlin K (31:34):
It's not fun.
I looked like mrs potato headon.
Jenny GK (31:37):
This is like that surgery where they take fat off
your belly and put it on yourbutt.
Only here they only.
It's the roof of your mouth,your roof of your mouth to the
side of your mouth.
Caitlin K (31:46):
I've been telling people that my mouth, the inside
of my mouth, feels like, youknow, at the end of ferris
bueller's day off, when the thegirl offers the principal a
gummy bear and she's like andthey're real warm because
they've been in my pocket, likethat's what it feels like inside
my mouth.
That's what the roof of mymouth feels like is a warm gummy
(32:09):
bear but like a sticky one.
Jenny GK (32:11):
It's disgusting Right.
Caitlin K (32:13):
So part of the healing process is that you
can't it's like wisdom teeth,where you can't like have any
suction of any sort in yourmouth.
So I couldn't drink out of astraw, but I can drink out of a
straw.
Do you know how hard it is whenyou are have an emotional
support water bottle and you andit has a straw and you can't
use it.
Like what did you?
(32:34):
Have to do, take the lid offyeah, I had to take the lid off,
which is not that big of a deal, right?
but no, it's huge part of theemotional support water that's
like that could just changingyour life.
Jenny GK (32:43):
It really was.
Caitlin K (32:47):
I can drink out of a straw.
Jenny GK (32:49):
It would not be.
Water bottle with straw, itwould be.
How do I drink at a restaurant?
Caitlin K (32:55):
Well, and that's a piece of it too, Like it's not.
You're not going anywhere whenyou have this done because your
mouth is like you're a mess, butit's a warm gummy bear.
It's a warm gummy bear on theinside and that's healing.
That's how it feels like whenit's healing, so that's a good
thing, but it just is disgusting.
(33:16):
But it's the minorinconveniences that you can't
think about.
It's like oh, I really wantedsome sparkling water.
Oh, guess what?
You can't have carbonationbecause the bubbles can like
mess up the grafting process.
So, like all of this stuff,yeah, has been a no-go.
Jenny GK (33:28):
So now we go through a case of sparkling water every
three days in our family.
Caitlin K (33:32):
Well, and I don't drink it all the time, but I do
drink it.
Jenny GK (33:36):
I drink four packages every two weeks, sometimes, more
often than not, always LaCroixtea, lime yeah, most of the time
.
I think right now we also havesome strawberry peach.
Caitlin K (33:46):
We do like the mango also at our house.
The mango is good too.
Jenny GK (33:50):
And the beach plum is good.
Caitlin K (33:52):
Oh, I haven't had that one.
Jenny GK (33:53):
It's good, that's good .
Okay, I'll have to do that.
And then there's that cherrylime one that comes in the tall
skinny cans but that's outsideof our price range.
Yeah, you only get eight.
Right, give me the 12 kidsanyway.
Caitlin K (34:04):
So that's why I'm obsessed with it, because I'm
like my emotional support.
Water bottles are back in mylife.
I'm so happy I'm drinking outof my brugmate now well, and
it's gonna be beneficial to yourskin.
More water yes, more well, andthat's the other thing too is
like you forget, like how much Idrink out of a straw, like, and
I've been doing it because Ihave sensitive teeth, like
that's the whole reason fordoing it.
(34:26):
It helps, like the acid not beon the front of your teeth all
the time if you drink from astraw, so that's why I've been
doing it.
So now I can't drink.
It's been, it's been a mess.
So anyway, I'm happy to havestraws back because they're
wonderful.
Do you have any gems?
Jenny GK (34:40):
Yes, okay, so we have talked about the fact that I've
hurt my knee.
Caitlin K (34:43):
Yes, poor thing, and I'm still in the healing process
.
Jenny GK (34:46):
Yeah, but to help with moving around the house I have
been using one crutch, oh, justthe one, just the one, because I
don't really need to like notput weight on it at all, I just
need help like stabilizing.
Okay, because then my knee candefinitely hold weight Like I
could stand on one leg if Iwanted to.
Sure, it's the like.
(35:07):
I don't trust it and Idefinitely can't straighten or
bend it all the way.
It kind of just hangs out atthis 120-degree angle all day
long.
Oh, which has given me reallynice calves on my other side,
I'm sure.
Yeah, for real.
But I've been walking aroundwith one crutch and John's been
(35:27):
calling me Gandalf.
He has walked around behind mein the house playing the Lord of
the Rings music.
Stop it.
Caitlin K (35:34):
While I hobble around .
That's not nice.
Well it's funny, we went onvacation.
Jenny GK (35:39):
Okay, oh, it's hilarious.
Caitlin K (35:40):
Yeah, it's very funny .
Jenny GK (35:41):
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all, if it did, he
would not do it.
Sure, no, I think it's funny.
And also this whole injury isfunny.
I hurt myself jumping up anddown.
Let's be real, yeah, you did Notplaying a sport, not doing
something like crazy athletic orlike, oh yeah, I was in the X
Games and I hurt myself.
No, I was passing out teacherpresents and said Merry
Christmas.
Oh, that just made a sound.
Anyway, we are staying at ahotel recently that has a lot of
(36:05):
bridges through the atrium,because there's like a river
that runs through the hotel andI'm hobbling along with my one
little crutch, and now my wholefamily is making fun of me.
Oh, come on, Gandalf, get along.
Where's your robe?
Caitlin K (36:21):
Well, I stop on one of these bridges and then the
loudest voice yes, I did, yes, Idid.
Jenny GK (36:26):
I slammed the crutch down and called out you shall
not pass as loud as I could inthis seven-story atrium.
And it echoes through the.
Oh my goodness, I was like I'mgonna own this guys.
Caitlin K (36:42):
Yeah, you are just like you said gotta own it
comfort.
Right, you got, you can't.
No downward social comparison.
That is the name of jenny'sgame.
I dive embarrassment for herand myself, and yet she's like
no, I'm gonna wear the ramenshirt, I'm gonna be gandalf on
this bridge no, I'm, I'mseriously considering a cloak
(37:05):
and the deal deal is John hassaid like I'll buy you two.
Jenny GK (37:08):
You can be Gandalf the Grey until you're healed and
then, when you're better, youcan be the white and we'll get
you a white cloak.
Caitlin K (37:18):
It's too bad that Halloween's over, right, because
this would be a really goodHalloween costume.
Jenny GK (37:22):
Well, according to some research, it could be nine
months before I'm back on myfeet.
Caitlin K (37:28):
Okay, so perfect.
It might be right in time, itmight be just in time, perfect,
great, oh gosh.
Jenny GK (37:34):
It's all right, it's funny.
Yeah, it's like a new littleaccessory I get to wear all the
time.
Yay, I wonder if they make kneebraces in like different colors
.
Caitlin K (37:45):
We're going to bedazzle it.
Jenny GK (37:46):
Right knee uh, knee braces in like different colors.
We're gonna bedazzle it, right?
That joke has already been madetoo about the cane.
Like if I have to get a cane,you know it's gonna be like the
flashiest, like most americ, uh,most amazing cane ever yeah,
get some inspiration from tomhaverford when he was looking at
dragon serpent yes dragon right, right.
Caitlin K (38:03):
Um, okay, mine is is that I compared women's anatomy
to a car.
Wait, what?
So?
My son was having those sexeducation courses that they do
at the end of the term inDecember in Austin schools.
One day he was like so like, Iknow like a little bit more
(38:27):
about stuff, but like, is awoman's body like harder?
And I was like what do you mean?
He's like, is it just harder tobe a girl like, is it just
harder?
Jenny GK (38:36):
and in my head I'm screaming like yes, yes, it is
smash that patriarchy right now,right well, and I think he just
meant physically.
Caitlin K (38:45):
No, of course I know, the answer is still a
resounding yes, like yes, yes,no.
Jenny GK (38:50):
That's one of those times where you really have to
think about what question isbeing asked right, exactly.
Caitlin K (38:55):
Um, am I really gonna answer this?
No, right, but I did, becauseof course I did so I was like,
well, can you?
And he's like I, just like oneof my friends who I'm not gonna
name on the show it was likeit's just all the stuff that
goes into being a girl justseems like a lot and like she
was like I don't want to dopuberty and girl same okay, but
(39:16):
you know, hopefully you do ifthey want, if if people wanted
to do it, they'd give it abetter name.
Jenny GK (39:22):
That's a horrible word .
I hate that word.
Caitlin K (39:24):
Right, that's what I'm saying, so um they call it
like super happy fun time rightand middle school would be
called awesome school right, itwould not suck nearly as much as
it does anyway.
So, um, I was like, well, yeah,it's like it just kind of needs
(39:45):
more.
Yeah, it's like it just kind ofneeds more maintenance.
And he was like what?
And I just went like you knowlike how, like you, there's just
more parts that need to belooked after and it's harder to
get to them because of wherethey are.
It's like when you take yourcar to the shop and they have to
open up the hood and then lookinside the engine.
(40:07):
And then I think at one point Ijust went, just stop talking.
Just stop talking right now,because he's already moved on.
Jenny GK (40:14):
Yeah, and like I mean, I thought the metaphor worked.
Number one oh, it totally does.
Yeah, I drove an f-150 from the90s for a long time and you
could climb inside that engineblock to work on that car oh my,
I did so much maintenance on itmyself.
Caitlin K (40:29):
Wow, good for you.
Jenny GK (40:31):
In the car I drive now , like the whole thing's wrapped
in plastic, like I don't evenknow where the engine is.
I mean, I do I'm not that dumb,but still like everything is in
a container and it's hard tofind and it's not easy to get in
there and maintain it.
Caitlin K (40:44):
They do it on purpose , so you have to take it in
together.
Jenny GK (40:47):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, okay.
The other thing is the way Inormally handle these questions
is much like you just did.
I just throw all the science inthat I can, yeah, and make it
as boring and as medicinal aspossible.
Yeah, and I'm, I'm like, oh anduse.
(41:08):
I use all the anatomical wordsand just over and, over and over
again and just keep natteringuntil the kid is like okay, mom,
I'm done.
Caitlin K (41:17):
Well, and that's, and I'm pretty sure he turned.
Jenny GK (41:19):
Everything I told you is true.
It's just really boring the wayI presented it.
Caitlin K (41:22):
Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out pretty
quickly.
Jenny GK (41:42):
But Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out
pretty quickly.
But I just, at some point I wasjust like why did I do this?
Why did I say it like this,where I'm like, well, and then
you have to take it to the shopand then people who are in there
don't always know what they'redoing.
Sometimes you get an oil leakand blah blah.
Caitlin K (41:49):
I'm just like why am I talking about this?
Just stop talking.
When you get those back tiresup in the stirrups, when you get
those back tires up in thestirrups, it's like this is real
, oh, car fart Anyway.
So that's what I did.
That was my gem, ridiculous.
Jenny GK (41:59):
It's amazing.
Caitlin K (42:00):
Don't do it, All right y'all, it's not good
manners.
Jenny GK (42:06):
Yes, when you are thinking about the beauty that
is the female body, unless it isa 67 Mustang, don't compare it
to a car or a Shelby GT4.
Okay, that's a Shelby or, or II.
My number one favorite car isthe Ford Galaxy 500 XL Sunliner,
(42:27):
but nobody knows what that is,because it didn't do very well.
Yeah, but its taillights looklike rockets, so of course it
like makes it.
Oh yeah, it was a total nerdcar, yeah Well don't wait, make
good choices.
Caitlin K (42:39):
Yeah, don't don't do that.
I'm going to create a veryunhealthy obsession with some
guy and his car at this pointwith this conversation.
So I'm just going to move on,and manners are about making
people feel comfortable, unlikethis last.
You know four minutes of ourconversation here, so we're just
gonna go.
Okay, okay, okay, bye.
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