June 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Ever feel like you’re faking it just to survive motherhood/adulthood? Spoiler: It’s not impostor syndrome—it’s ADHD masking. Learn how to ditch the exhausting act without setting your life on fire.
—
Who Should Listen
- Moms who feel like they’re pretending to function while drowning in chaos.
- Women who downplay their struggles because “we’re all tired.”
- Anyone who’s been called “too much” or “scatterbrained” but knows there’s more to the story.
—
What You Get In This Episode
- The truth about masking: Why ADHDers (especially moms) become masters of disguise—and how it backfires.
- Burnout red flags: How to tell if you’re actually burned out (and not just really tired).
- Unmasking strategies: Practical ways to honor your brain without abandoning responsibilities.
- The “should” trap: Why societal expectations set moms up to fail—and how to rewrite the script.
- Rest as rebellion: Why sleep isn’t selfish (and how to fight guilt-free for it).
—
Bios
Caitlin Kindred: ADHD mom, former teacher, and perpetual chaos wrangler who’s survived burnout (twice). Specializes in laughing so she doesn’t cry.
Ariella Monti: Author, ADHD creative, and yoga teacher who actually understands neurodivergent brains (no essential oil pseudoscience here).
—
Sources & Mentions
- Why ADHD Masking Is a Form of Self-Sabotage | by Sharon Saline, Psy.D., Nathaly Pesantez for ADDitude Magazine
- Rising from ADHD Burnout: A Recovery Kit for Women | by Kate Moryoussef for ADDitude Magazine
- 🎮 Squirrel Bingo: The anti-shame game for ADHDers (linked in blog!)
- 📱 Bird Feeder Cam: Caitlin’s hyperfixation (because squirrels are menaces)
- 📚 Roots in Ink: Ariella’s spicy novel (Use code CKANDGK for 20% off!)
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Love,
CK & GK
View our website at ckandgkpodcast.com. Find us on social media @ckandgkpodcast on
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin Kindred (00:01):
Hello, hello friends, we're so glad you're
here today.
Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up.
This is the how-to show withhosts who have medication that
helps them be grown-ups.
So, yeah, so.
Ariella Monti (00:15):
I love you, edsonis, uh-huh.
Caitlin Kindred (00:17):
Yep Better living through pharmacy, life
right Through pharmacology.
Okay, I'm Caitlin and with metoday co-hosting for Jenny is
Ariella Monti, the author of myfavorite spicy novel Roots in
Ink, and she is a velvet voicetornado of brilliance and
(00:39):
kindness.
Ariella Monti (00:40):
Oh, I love it.
Thanks, that's a good one.
Caitlin Kindred (00:43):
Mm-hmm, Sometimes it's just a matter of
taking a bunch of adjectives andsmooshing them into a thing
right, that's basically mywriting strategy.
This is why I need series,Otherwise I will go off on
rantages.
Okay, so today we're continuingthat series on ADHD with a
(01:05):
conversation about burnout and,in particular, masking.
So I have a story that I'mgoing to share with you, dear
listener, and you because you'rehere suffering on this episode
with me, Ariella.
Okay.
So here's the story.
While I was teaching here inTexas before, Jenny and I really
(01:28):
got super close but we hadstarted being friends and had
each other's phone numbers.
At this point, I remember hersending me a text that said this
is why and I'm going to inserta comment here our friend right,
this is why Ashley and IAshley's, our friend want to be
(01:49):
you when we grow up.
So this is why we want to beyou when we grow up.
Like, okay, I just rememberthinking in that moment I get
this text and I'm like what thisis?
This is insane.
Why does anybody want to be mewhen they grow up?
And I bet Jenny is sittingthere going like I still want to
be Caitlyn when I grow up.
I could hear her being likestill, but now she knows more
(02:12):
about what the chaos that is whoI am.
But I truly, especially in thatmoment, felt like I was barely
holding on to my life.
Right, I was a new mom at thatpoint.
My son was probably less than ayear old, or maybe he was like
right around a year, year and afew months.
Okay, I was new to Texas.
I'd only been there for a fewmonths in a new job, which means
(02:38):
first year teacher vibes allover again.
And if you know, you know I hadno money, my license plates
were still Colorado plates,which means the tags were crazy,
expired and I had a sinusinfection.
Like I remember all these thingsbeing like why I do not have
(03:01):
myself together, why does anyonethink that I have myself
together?
So the compliment, which isstill one of my favorite
compliments I've ever received,is felt unearned in that moment.
Right, Like why, who on earthwants to be this hot mess?
But I can see their point whenI look back on it.
I looked like I had my lifetogether.
Right, I would come to work, Idid my work.
(03:22):
I was not a complete cryingmess all the time at work, even
though I wanted to be.
It's my brain that wasscrambled up and I was at that
point and I still am super greatat masking, and here's why this
matters for moms.
(03:43):
Society expects women,especially moms, to be organized
, emotionally regulated,self-sacrificing All qualities
that ADHD brains are not wiredfor.
Ariella Monti (04:03):
No.
Caitlin Kindred (04:09):
All the things we are bad at right exactly.
It is a surefire way to burnyourself out, which is something
that moms simply cannot affordto do.
This is why we did an entireseries on self-care.
Moms cannot let burnout besomething that they experience.
So, before we get into more ofthis, I do need to say as always
, please remember that I am nota doctor, I am not a
(04:29):
psychiatrist or any type ofhealth professional, mental or
otherwise.
Ariella Monti (04:34):
Nor am I.
I am a yoga teacher, and thatis not the same as a mental
health professional, no matterwhat your yoga teacher might
tell you, unless, your yogateacher is actually a mental
health professional and mymental health professional.
No matter what your yogateacher might tell you, unless,
your yoga teacher is actually amental health professional and
my mental health professionalhappens to be a yoga teacher.
But that is an exception.
Caitlin Kindred (04:53):
Right.
No matter how many essentialoils she tries to sell you, she
is not a doctor.
Okay, so nothing againstessential oils.
They make my house smell great,but they are not medicine.
So my perspective here is my own.
I did my research, I promise.
But much of this is coming frommy personal experience and I
hope that if you happen to seeyourself in what I'm talking
(05:15):
about today, that you feelvalidated.
Remember that you're not aloneand seek help from a mental
health professional if that'ssomething that you need.
Okay, so my sources for todayare myself, obviously, and a
couple of articles from Attitudemagazine which we've talked
about in the past ADD Attudemagazine.
(05:37):
One of them is why masking is aform of self-sabotage, by
Sharon Salin, who's a doctor,and also Natalie Pezentes, and
another one that I used wasrising from ADHD Burnout, a
recovery kit for women, by KateMoruseff, and these are both
linked in the blog post for thisepisode.
So please go check that out,along with some other resources
(05:58):
that I'll mention along the way.
So what is ADHD masking?
I mean, think about what a maskis.
Now apply that to your life andyou know those commercials with
like, the, the depression, theantidepressant commercials, with
the person who, like, wears thelittle smiley face piece of
paper on a stick.
(06:19):
It's a mask.
Yeah, so this quote from one ofthe articles really kind of hit
me.
It was, um, exactly what Idescribed in the message from
jenny.
I appear very organized to theoutside world, but only because
I spend an immense amount oftime and energy putting
everything together.
Yeah, right that's relatablemasking is a coping strategy,
(06:46):
okay, so what it means is you'recamouflaging your ADHD traits
to fit in.
Maybe that's forcing your focus, hiding your forgetfulness,
mimicking neurotypical habits ormimicking other people's
behaviors, and lots ofneurodivergent people do it.
It's common in autism as well,but again, we talked about that.
(07:09):
Overlap is really common, butthere are lots of other
neurodivergent types that willdo this.
It starts out being helpfulagain, coping strategy but it
starts to get exhausting, andwe'll talk about why in just a
minute.
It starts to get exhausting andwe'll talk about why in just a
minute.
Masking is more common in womenthan it is in men, for a couple
(07:31):
of reasons Again one of theones I already mentioned.
We'll get to.
But there's this general fear ofbeing called flaky or lazy or
too much right.
Nobody wants to be called thesethings.
They're negative, it doesn'tfeel good.
Or too much right.
Nobody wants to be called thesethings.
They're negative, it doesn'tfeel good.
The other is that societalconditioning that I mentioned a
little bit ago to be pleasingand competent, and all of that
(07:57):
tends to create certain types ofbehaviors or habits that are
compensatory for these ADHDsymptoms.
Okay, so some examples might beyou stay late at work to
over-prepare for a meeting thatyou have the next day because
you were distracted by somethingso you had some time.
(08:20):
Blindness on some other tasks,right?
Or you say I forgot my planner,instead of saying I actually
lost it again.
You know, my fifth one thisyear, whatever, no big deal.
So you're trying to avoid shamewith a lie.
Okay, mimicking other mom'sroutines, even when they don't
(08:40):
work for your brain.
They don't work for your brain.
Mimicking other behaviors, as Imentioned, maybe dressing the
same way or showing up with thesame new Stanley water bottle,
whatever it is.
Sometimes these behaviors sortof come out and they're common
among moms.
(09:02):
The issue is that there are alot of negative consequences
that come along with masking thefirst one of them being delayed
and or sabotage diagnosis ofADHD, and this one kind of
speaks for itself here.
And one thing I always said tomy students was if you go to the
(09:25):
doctor for a stomach ache or abroken bone but you don't
actually tell the doctor what'swrong with you, how is the
doctor supposed to give you thetreatment that you need?
The same goes for youracademics.
If you don't tell me what helpyou need, I cannot support you.
I think the connection betweenthat metaphor and mental health
is pretty obvious here.
Yeah, I agree, you have to bevocal about your struggles, okay
(09:51):
, and show them to people.
You can't hide them, otherwiseyou won't get the help you need.
So another consequence is theinability to find things that
work for their brain.
So, because you maybe don'trealize that you've sabotaged
your diagnosis, or you don'trealize that you have ADHD, or
(10:12):
you haven't accepted that that'swhat's going on with your brain
, you can then not figure outwhat actually works for you,
right, like when you put yourfaith in this new planner that's
gonna be the one.
Ariella Monti (10:29):
That's the one.
Caitlin Kindred (10:31):
Right, this is the one that will make
everything better because itdoesn't have dates on it.
So when I skip months at a time, it won't make me feel bad,
Except then you stop using itbecause it doesn't have dates on
it, Right?
Like there's all of thesethings that you know you end up
putting your faith in that don'tactually work, Right?
(10:53):
Another consequence this is abig one, and we've talked about
it before is that comorbiditiespiece.
Other mental health disordersoften develop as a result of
masking, because all of thatworry and stress of covering up
your ADHD behaviors, yoursymptoms, who you really are,
(11:15):
can lead to anxiety anddepression and burnout.
This one I feel like someonewas maybe talking to me directly
and is shaking me at the moment, so I'm just gonna put this
here and Jenny is gonna be likeI told you, girl Perfectionism.
So I have to read this quotebecause it's just so good.
(11:39):
Overly sensitive to their ownperceived faults, people who
mask may also be hyper-aware ofthose traits in others and even
develop an intolerance for them.
Perfectionism combined withimposter syndrome can also
intensify rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria If something isn't
(12:00):
perfect, then it can be seen asanother failure, adding to a
sense of personal worthlessness,In case you didn't need therapy
before, you might now afterthat quote.
So in the article one of thearticles I mentioned earlier
there's one woman who said shespent so much of her early years
(12:23):
being late to stuff that nowshe's obsessed with being on
time and when other people arelate she views that as a
personal attack on herself.
Ariella Monti (12:33):
Yeah.
Caitlin Kindred (12:35):
Hi RSD, like that's what.
That is right, it's someoneelse's tardiness is not a
reflection of you.
I know the phrase honor yourtime is a big one right now, and
it's true.
You do need to honor people'stime At the same time.
Someone else's lateness is notsomeone telling you that you are
not worth their time.
Ariella Monti (12:53):
Right, so just keeping that in mind.
Caitlin Kindred (12:55):
But also it's very like Hector projector to
hate someone else's tardinesswhen you know you have a history
of tardiness, right?
Okay, another one.
Another consequence of masking,and this one is also very real
for me Imposter syndrome, poorself-esteem and this sense of
(13:17):
like who even am I feeling rightand I'll explain why.
So, as I mentioned, masking isa coping strategy, and people
with ADHD mask because they feelinadequate.
The failures stick out in theirbrains more so than any win.
The wins get overlooked, andwe're talking about things like
(13:40):
not taking credit for your work.
Saying something was a teameffort when it really wasn't
because you did all the work.
Calling something good luckwhen really the good luck was
that you worked hard.
Right, it's more than humility.
It's completely dismissing anycontribution that you made to
the success of whatever thevictory was.
(14:02):
And then all of that, all thatdoes is make you feel like bad
about yourself, because it's it.
You are not responsible for anyof the success.
It's not helpful, and all ofthat time literally pretending
to be someone else could just bewhoever you're around in that
(14:23):
moment creates this verydistorted sense of who you are.
So when you realize that whoyou think you are is just a
masked version of your real self.
You can see how that might makesomeone feel incredibly lost in
who.
They are Right that one hurts alittle bit.
(14:48):
Again, therapy is something.
I need to go find my newtherapist.
Ariella Monti (14:55):
I mean, like how often have I just like dropped
something and you and our othermom friends would be like
Ariella, that's amazing.
And I'm just like yeah, yeah,yeah, but Like all the time I
quite literally just did this.
Caitlin Kindred (15:13):
Yesterday.
I built this web page for aclient.
It is, if I may say so, prettygreat.
I worked really hard on it fordays and it's about to go live
and I did get some input andfeedback from people on the team
and so I can't say I dideverything myself and I, you
(15:36):
know, got some support from AIand things like that and lots of
research, whatever.
But ultimately I did put thispage together and the first
thing I said was oh no, it's ateam effort.
Ariella Monti (15:49):
Not really, but okay.
Caitlin Kindred (15:54):
Yeah, me and deep seek hanging out together,
but like otherwise, no, like Ireally did most of the work
myself and I literally just didit.
Like what, Anyway?
So there is a link also betweenmasking and burnout, and I did
mention burnout earlier as oneof the consequences of masking,
and here's how this connectionworks.
Masking is hard and peopledon't realize how difficult it
(16:16):
actually is, because if they'renot doing it, they don't get it
Right.
It's like teaching If you'renot in the trenches you just
don't know.
So it's really hard to maintainand it keeps people from getting
to know who you really are.
So you kind of block people outa little bit, and again, that
(16:36):
includes yourself.
So it gets a little bit lonelyand when you're on the verge of
burnout you need people tosupport you.
Right, and it only takes you sofar because you really can't
mimic your way into successfulwork and social habits.
Mimic your way into successfulwork and social habits, yeah,
(16:59):
yeah.
And I'd like to define burnouthere, because I think we need to
know what it actually is.
Burnout is chronic stress.
Let's try that one more time.
Burnout I'm going to leave thatin, just so you can hear me
flub my word.
Burnout is chronic stress plusemotional depletion and feeling
ineffective altogether.
Okay, so ADHDers tend to burnout faster because masking
(17:20):
requires extra mental effort.
It's like speaking a secondlanguage all day long.
I don't know if you've everseen I don't know how familiar
you are with Modern Family, butI love that show and there's a
scene where Sofia Vergara saysdo you know how smart I would be
if I could speak in my ownlanguage?
(17:42):
What I'm thinking in a languagethat isn't my own?
So I'm doing twice the thinkingright, and that's really what's
happening here.
I don't know about you, ariel,but I personally feel like I
have to work so hard just to getthings crossed off my to-do
list and I'll watch my boss andshe's like cranking out stuff.
(18:04):
She's like, well, I did thisdraft of this page and then I
wrote this blog and then Iworked on this and and I'm going
to be back in a minute I'm likehow did you do three things in
five hours?
And here I am still working onthe same one.
How did you do that?
I admire it and I question,like how she does that, because
(18:25):
I'm working twice as hard to getone thing done.
Ariella Monti (18:29):
Yep, yeah, it happens to me all the time,
especially thinking like oh,I've got four, a block of four
hours to work.
Today I should be able to sayfinish an entire chapter.
Like, yeah, I could do that.
And then it takes my brain somuch work to get those words
(18:55):
like from my mind to myfingertips and onto the screen
and like the four hours is goneand I only have like 200 words
written down.
You know, like it's.
Caitlin Kindred (19:11):
It's really hard.
And there's another piece ofthis too that you just mentioned
, where you just said get achapter done.
But there's so much that goesinto that and our brains don't
think of it as one task.
We think of it as like the 15tasks.
I have to sit down, I have topower my computer up, I have to
open up the document, I have tothis and this and this and this
(19:31):
and this.
Oh, I have to have this windowin this position because I work
on this window, but I look atthis one for all my reference.
There's so many little thingsthat require your attention that
that one task it's not that youdidn't get anything done, it's
that you can't estimate how muchtime the other little tasks are
going to take you.
(19:52):
You have time blindness.
We have no sense of how longthings take.
And then also there's it's moreeffort for us to get through
the little things too.
So that can totally causeburnout, as I've mentioned
before.
The phrase, the work betweenthe work that's what gets us
right.
And then you add to it thatthere's the emotional labor of
(20:13):
suppressing emotions, like yourRSD meltdowns.
That is also exhausting.
There is that sense of anxietythat comes from underperforming.
That's exhausting.
There is ADHDers struggle withemotional regulation as it is,
we go hot, pulled really quickly.
It's seriously zero to 100 onsome things.
(20:34):
Or we don't quite know what ouremotions are until something
triggers us and we're actuallyangry and we didn't know we were
angry.
So that can lead to a lot ofburnout for people.
And then you add for moms momsdon't get true downtime most of
the time.
You add for moms, moms don'tget true downtime most of the
(21:01):
time.
No, no, recovery requires rest.
Moms don't get rest.
So I just want to put out somesigns.
You might be feeling burned outand not just tired.
I'm going to put this hereConstant overwhelm, irritability
and numbness to what's going onaround you, physical symptoms
like headaches, insomnia,getting sick, often like stomach
aches, things like that, andthen also just the general sense
(21:22):
of feeling like a failure, eventhough you're doing a lot of
things.
Those are burnout symptoms.
Please seek help and get restif you are experiencing them.
So I think the big thing weneed to talk about here is how
to actually unmask yourself ifyou find yourself exhibiting
these behaviors.
So here are some practicalstrategies to reduce your
(21:44):
masking, conserve your energyand do so without coming unglued
.
So one you're going to try toidentify your masks.
Adhders are terrible atmetacognition, as in thinking
about your thinking, so youmight actually have to, like,
write some things down here.
(22:05):
You might say where am Iperforming as a normie?
Where am I performing as anormie neurotypical, instead of
honoring my brain, like when isit the Caitlyn show, right?
When do I do that so that I canidentify that as a trigger,
(22:27):
whatever that is that's causingme to be a normie in those
moments, I can write that downas a space to stop and
reconsider.
How am I trying to keep upappearances?
Am I posting pictures of myhouse in this perfectly staged,
clean area and then behind me isa mess For me, no, my house is
just a mess and you can comeright in and it's fine, but I
will be embarrassed that you'reseeing it.
(22:47):
So there's that.
But what parts of yourself doyou actively find yourself
hiding from others?
This is something I do inprivate.
Nobody else knows about it andI won't ever talk about it.
That's a masking media, right?
If it means watching pimplepopping videos, I do that too,
(23:08):
so don't worry about it.
Okay, so the next thing youneed to do so.
Gross is drop the shoulds, forexample.
I'm so bad at this.
This is so hard.
It's so hard.
For example, if visual clutter,like what I was just talking
about, doesn't bother you, thendon't apologize for it because
(23:31):
it doesn't bother you, right?
If it's in your house, youdon't need to apologize for it
because you live there, notsomeone else.
They don't like it, then theydon't have to have a house that
has visual clutter in it.
There we go.
Should is a bad word in themental health space.
Maybe you've heard the phrase.
Stop shooting all over yourself.
(23:52):
It's true and it's real, and itjust brings shame on yourself,
so you really need to let it go.
I loved this resource fromAttitude Magazine.
It's called Squirrel Bingo.
Ariella Monti (24:09):
I'm in, I know right, me too.
It's an anti-shame game.
It's literally a bingo game.
Caitlin Kindred (24:18):
So that you can , yeah, feel shame about certain
things.
I linked it in the blog postfor the episode.
I'm gonna start playing itbecause, first of all, gamifying
anything for an ADHDer is a win, and then, yeah, anything
that's gonna make me not beashamed of things I don't need
to be ashamed of is another win.
So I'm going to do it and letme know if you play.
I want to hear about it.
(24:39):
Put it in the DMs, share apicture, tag us, I want to know.
Another thing you need to do tounmask is practice
self-compassion.
We have talked about this somuch on this show, but I need to
share this quote from an ADHDcoach.
Her name is Linda.
I am going to say her namewrong.
(24:59):
I think it's Rosalie, but mightbe pronounced a different way.
So sorry, linda, apologies inadvance.
Her quote is your masks haveprotected you in the past, but
release them with love.
So it's time to startpracticing talking to yourself
(25:21):
in a kind way.
I think I've shared this beforeand you've probably heard me
say it, but my friend Elsie didnot like it when I said
something negative about myselfand she would correct me by
saying don't talk about myfriend that way.
I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm sostupid and she's like don't talk
about my friend.
Ariella Monti (25:31):
That way, I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm so stupid
and she's like don't talk aboutmy friend that way and I'm
pretty sure I've said it to you,oh yeah, and I picked it up and
now I say it to the child when,yeah, when he says stuff like
that, yeah, I said don't, don'ttalk about my friend that way,
and then I have to explain whatthat means and yeah, I I will
say to my son and I'll say don'ttalk about about my son that
way, like you know, I mean youcould change it that way.
Caitlin Kindred (25:53):
But, um, I have started saying this to not just
my friends, uh, not just myfamily, but also myself, cause I
gotta be my own friendsometimes, right?
Uh, so I will say don't talkabout my friend that way.
To myself, when I hear myselfsaying things like that and I
(26:15):
actually did it to myself as Iwas writing the notes for this
episode it's like, oh my God,yeah, it was an interesting
situation.
Okay, remember that part ofself-compassion and self-care is
self-advocacy.
Asking for help is not onlyokay, but it's a good thing and
(26:38):
it will ease the pain of takingoff that mask a little bit.
The problem with self-advocacyfor ADHDers is that we often
have a hard time identifyingwhat our needs actually are.
So I like to say it'sindependence, it's really not,
it's like fake independence.
Yeah, I don't really know, butstopping to think what am I
(26:59):
afraid of and what do I need mayhelp you find some solutions
for whatever's going on.
And something that's scary forpeople, including myself and
other people I know, isre-evaluating your boundaries
that may come as a result of youasking yourself what do I need?
(27:21):
It might mean that you need tore reevaluate your boundaries
around a certain person or foryourself, like what keeps me
safe?
Things like that, and that canbe a little bit frightening.
And just putting that out thereas a warning to people who are
doing this and don't forget thatyour sense of humor has a real
(27:44):
place in self-compassion.
Laughing just feels good.
Lean into opportunities to dothat so that when your ADHD
symptoms show up in a funny way,it's okay to laugh about it.
I mean, that's really why Arieland I are doing this, because
(28:05):
the things our brains do.
I cannot tell you how manycabinet doors I have left open
just in the past couple.
It's a lot.
I think we started calling itthe ghost in my house.
Uh-oh, the ghost left thecabinet open.
Oh, she needs a name.
It's got to be a woman.
It needs, like an old lady name.
(28:26):
Help me think of one Mildred.
Yes, okay, mildred.
Left the cabin open again.
Dang it, mildred, okay.
The next one is outsource andadapt.
So use tools like meal kits andautomatic bill pay and other
(28:46):
things like that instead offorcing traditional symptoms or
symptoms systems for yourself.
Automatic bill pay is myfavorite thing in the world.
Otherwise, I would forget topay everything, and I often do
forget to pay bills that come tome, even though I know that
they're there.
I will see them, and thenthey're away from my brain
because they're not right infront of me anymore.
(29:06):
So and again, if you're juststarting this journey of
unmasking and trying to findthings that work for you, I
would say there is no betterhyper fixation than learning
about your own brain.
Honestly, empower yourself withinformation.
Attitude magazine is a fabulousresource if you don't know
where to start.
(29:27):
I love reddit always for triedand true, practical things that
people are willing to share withyou.
Like it is okay to go and behyper fixated on your brain for
a little while to learn aboutyourself and what your needs are
.
Um, and my another one, one ofmy favorites find your people,
(29:50):
and I'm going to say this withlove.
You masked for a reason andthat's because there are people
out there who are mean andcrappy and, yes, it's true that
people might react negatively asyou start to unmask yourself
and show who you really are, butthis is not middle school and
(30:11):
you are not obligated to carrythe weight of other people's
opinions about you, so thoseopinions should not dictate how
you live your life.
Now, sometimes you're in asituation with work you have to
tolerate someone's opinion ofyou.
It's your boss, it's someonewhatever.
I get that.
However, that person does notmatter in any other capacity but
(30:37):
your job.
So leave that mess at the joband separate yourself from it as
soon as you walk out the doorand separate yourself from it as
soon as you walk out the door.
Ariella Monti (30:50):
Okay, and adding to that, you might find, as you
learn about your ADHD, that youhave already surrounded yourself
with other adhd people who justdon't know that they're adhd.
Caitlin Kindred (31:12):
and as you all start to unmask together, it
just brings you closer whenthere was some meme about that
that I saw that was like all ofmy friends have ADHD and I don't
, but I have.
But I see this in common, andthe person was like hate to
(31:34):
break it to you, pal, butthere's a reason.
All of your friends have ADHD,right, because you also have it.
All of you weirdos get together.
All of you weirdos get together.
(32:01):
Okay, that also might mean, inaddition to the weirdos who love
you, that you find other ADHDfriendly people who don't judge.
Maybe that's a professionaltherapist or an ADHD coach If
any are listening, I need help.
Maybe that's other ADHDers,maybe that's especially other
ADHDers who maybe you identifywith in some way maybe same
gender norms, same sexualorientation, racially, something
like that might be also reallygood crew for you to be with.
And you know, hopefully youhave other people in your life
(32:22):
Like my partner does not haveADHD.
However, he is verycompassionate and understanding
and is encouraging me to ask forthe things that I need and
advocate for myself, and I hopethat that's someone, even if
they're neurotypical.
You have someone in your lifelike that.
And the last one I'm going toalso say with love and I really
(32:43):
want to swear here, but this isa non-swearing show, so I'm
going to say it as best I canSchedule rest like it's a
meeting.
If you're experiencing burnout,burnout, recovery requires
actual rest, not watchingpimple-popping videos in your
bed on YouTube late at night,caitlin.
So, mama, I say this to youwith all the love in the world,
(33:07):
and here's where I want to swearGo the F to sleep, do not stay
up, do not take your alone timeat night when everyone else is
asleep.
Do that for 15 minutes and goto bed, put nap on the family
calendar and then go the F tosleep.
Do it, your brain needs it andnothing is more important than
(33:30):
your rest, my dear.
Not one single thing, becauseliterally, moms cannot afford to
be burnt out.
So I'm nodding Like I agreewith.
Ariella Monti (33:42):
I agree with you as I continue to ignore the get
ready for bed alarm that goesoff.
You're smart to have an alarm.
Sunday through Thursday I mean,but I ignore it like every
single day.
Caitlin Kindred (33:56):
So We'll get better at it.
We'll get better, okay.
So, in conclusion, as a seventhgrader would finish their essay
In conclusion.
So, in conclusion, as a seventhgrader would finish their essay
in conclusion, no.
To wrap this up, I have to saymasking think of masking like
(34:18):
Spanx folks.
It's uncomfortable and whocares if you're wearing it?
Because, as the veryintelligent founder of the we Do
Not Care Club, if you don'tknow what I'm talking about, go
look it up.
It's hilarious Says we do notcare.
So no one cares if you wearyour mask.
(34:42):
If you're around the rightpeople, like put it down, I'll
be your friend, so reach out.
So I'm curious if you'relistening to this.
If you have a mask that you'dlike to drop, I would love to
hear about it.
Please again, send us a DM, tagus, tell me about it, because
I'm super curious and let's takea quick break.
(35:03):
And let's take a quick break.
Hey y'all.
Pov you find a diary exposingforbidden magic and the hot
museum caretaker's life dependson you burning it, roots and Ink
.
The debut novel by AriellaMonti is the fantasy romance for
rebels.
Use promo code CK and GK to get20% off your copy at
(35:27):
AriellaMontecom.
Again, that's all capsC-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on
AriellaMontecom.
Get your copy for 20% off today.
We are back now and, becausewe're talking about adhd, we've
(35:52):
renamed our circle time stuff tohyper fixations.
Right now and tell me all aboutit I don't know see
(36:16):
metacognition.
We're so bad at it, okay.
Well then, I'll share mine.
Are you ready?
Ariella Monti (36:20):
I'm sure, well.
Well, now I'm looking at thescript there it is there, your
hyper fixation is definitely anongoing hyper fixation of mine,
so let's talk about it okay, myscript says burbs, burb.
Caitlin Kindred (36:42):
I I've had this thing with, like, trying to
make sure my bird feeders in myyard are always full.
Um, I have bird feeders thatsquirrels cannot get into.
Until mother's day when I gotone of those bird feeders that
has a camera on it, and I'm sointo this.
You guys like and you know thatbird is the word song that they
(37:07):
have all the time in family guy, I've been singing that but,
like with burb, it would be irbinstead of instead of bird.
Uh, I cannot get enough of thiscamera.
And then the squirrels startedeating all the food and these
little squirrels, like theyscooped all the food out of it
and onto the ground.
It was teamwork.
(37:27):
I saw two of them one of themon the camera I'm watching scoop
everything onto the ground.
So I go out and check and, yep,there it is just scooping
everything onto the ground,emptying the entire feeder, and
the other squirrel is underneath, like what is happening here.
So now I now I've bought newspicy food because birds are
(37:49):
immune to capsaicin, which iswhat the spice is, and squirrels
are not.
So I'm hoping that by puttingthat in the feeder with the
camera, the squirrels learn tostay away from it and only the
birds eat it.
But I have seen blue jays.
Only the birds eat it, but Ihave seen blue jays.
I have a cardinal couple thatshows up and there's a little
girl who is just as all sassy ascan be and she puts her mohawk
(38:12):
up and shows me her butt on aregular basis and then one time
she looked in the camera likewho's in here and it was really
funny.
I have a pair of doves thatshow up, pair of uh doves that
show up, but I'm hoping that,with a diff with this new spicy
food, that other birds show uptoo, because they they tend to
like this.
It's like suet based orsomething, I don't know.
(38:33):
Whatever.
I don't know anything aboutthis, but I've I'm hyper fixated
on these birds, burbs.
Anyway, if I, I will actuallystart posting some of these
pictures because you guys, someof them are so fun they are,
they are pretty amazing aren'tthey so cool oh my gosh, yeah,
(38:54):
yeah.
Ariella Monti (38:54):
I'll have to also share with the, with the crowd,
the picture of the squirrel inmy window feeder oh, and that
was wild.
Caitlin Kindred (39:06):
How did it get up that high?
And there's nothing for to likelaunch itself from.
I don't understand.
Ariella Monti (39:11):
Yeah, so this you know, for the, for the readers,
readers, for the listeners whodon't know what my house looks
like.
Yeah, so my office has a windowand on it's on the second floor
and on that window I've put oneof those like suction cup
feeders and it's been there, ifI want to say, like two-ish
(39:34):
years.
It's been here for a while andthere is so maybe like six or so
feet in one direction there islike a little like overhang for
our porch, and then on the otherside, maybe like four or so
feet away, is the overhang forthe side door.
(39:55):
So there is like something thatthey can kind of launch
themselves from.
But there there's like nothingelse, there it's just the
windowsill.
So they are launchingthemselves, or I think it's just
one of them launching herself.
(40:15):
I'm pretty sure it's a femalelaunching herself from the
overhang to the feeder and justhanging out having a blast yeah,
you have to share that pictureyou have to because it's pretty
wild right and the crafty thefunniest part about it is that
(40:41):
there are easier feeders toaccess.
Like, like I purposely put foodout in For the squirrels.
For the squirrels, like, I givethem peanuts and I purposely
put you know feeders that arenot squirrel-proof out there, so
that if they do dump it like,it's fine.
But yeah, this one, my worry isthat these suction cups are
(41:08):
gonna give out and the entirething is gonna come crashing
down to the ground.
I mean, I think from from whatI've learned from you know those
mark rober videos with like thesquirrel olympics and stuff
yeah, the squirrel will probablybe okay but still I'm like
waiting for this thing to gocrashing down onto the pavement
(41:28):
below.
That would be awful.
Caitlin Kindred (41:30):
Well, it's not the fall that'll kill it, it's
the bounce.
So whatever.
But we've been talking about mybirb obsession and that's where
this whole picture came fromand it is wild, so I hope you
share it because it's prettycrazy.
I have no idea how it and ithad to launch itself like that's
(41:51):
the only thing it could havedone.
Right, all right, uh, thingsthat we finally accomplished
this week.
Do you have a thing?
Ariella Monti (42:01):
I do, but I can't remember.
I'm I'm actually looking atlike my brain dump.
I'm like what did I do thisweek?
Like I definitely did stuff,but what was it?
Like, what did I do?
Caitlin Kindred (42:16):
Like I'm sure I did something that I've been
putting off, but like what Idon't know, as I'm saying things
like ADHDers are terrible atthinking about their thinking
like what, like terrible attaking credit for things that we
accomplish, like but this iswhy.
Ariella Monti (42:32):
This is why, like , you got to write down all the
things that you've accomplished,because otherwise, like, it's
just never going to happen.
I guess the one thing that doesthe the one thing I did early
how's this?
The thing that I did early wasreformat.
So I've got my two novellas area certain, there are certain
(42:55):
trim size.
They're like five by seven orwhatever, and I decided to
reformat them so that they aresmaller.
They're four by six ish, whichis what we call like mass market
paperback size.
So those are like the, thepaperbacks that, like, your mom
or grandma used to get at likethe grocery store with like on
the cover.
(43:16):
Yeah, so they're like that size.
So my cover cover designer wasgoing to work on those this
month and I actually got into mysoftware and I went and
reformatted everything so Icould send her some templates
and I was like, yes, I got doneearly, nice, and then she got
(43:40):
done early.
She worked on it like two weeksearly, so now that's amazing
yeah, now I can get those thoseout yeah, that's great.
Caitlin Kindred (43:51):
I'm thinking like purse sized, like that's
what I have in my head is likeyou could buy it at the grocery
store and then you could shoveit in your purse, that's exactly
one of the that's.
Ariella Monti (44:01):
That's basically why they were made like that so
that they could be like shoved.
They could be discreet andhidden.
Hide your smut in your bagright, but it's what it's got.
Caitlin Kindred (44:12):
Fabio on the cover like yeah, that's fair.
Ariella Monti (44:14):
There's nothing discreet, no, no, anyway that's
why you have to hide them inyour bag right, that's true.
Caitlin Kindred (44:21):
Yeah, couldn't read them on the subway like
some people are doing these days.
Anyway, uh, my thing is and Ican't even take all the credit
for, because I literally,literally cannot is planning my
child's birthday party again.
(44:46):
That's why I can't take credit.
This is not me being humblehere, this is no.
He actually did this and then Idesigned the invitation, of
course with my child's input,and, like, put all the
information together and now theonly thing I have left to do is
find the missing emailaddresses for the parents and
send it out.
Now that hurdle is going to bea problem and I know I need to
do it.
So it's actually like in myhead that I need to do that
(45:07):
today, because my son's birthdayis in a month and it's over the
summer and I want families tohave enough time to plan and
decide and whatever.
So, anyway, I'm very proud ofmyself for at least getting that
far in the planning.
Ariella Monti (45:20):
Yes, progress is wellness right right, you, uh,
you are already farther than Iam with my son's birthday, which
is only like a week after yourson's birthday and more than
that, though, is it?
Caitlin Kindred (45:36):
it's two weeks?
Yeah, it's two weeks.
Ariella Monti (45:38):
You got time two weeks you got time I mean, I
know what.
Thankfully he just wants a likesplash, like a backyard splash
party.
Caitlin Kindred (45:48):
And.
Ariella Monti (45:49):
I was like cool, give me the name of like five
friends, yep, and thankfully Ithink I know all those five
people.
Caitlin Kindred (45:59):
So that's great .
Yeah, I do not know thesepeople and I also am telling I'm
going to just if you'replanning a birthday party we've
talked about this before, we'vedone like birthday party
episodes Please inform theparents whether or not they need
to stay.
This is a self-containedlocation and we are at the stage
of life where parents do notneed to stay anymore.
(46:21):
So I am telling all the parentswe don't know't know each other
, like, feel free to drop yourkid off and then leave and then
just come back, come back in twohours, like it's fine.
So it's one of the benefits ofnot knowing the parents as your
child gets older is that you canthen say we're all going to be
(46:42):
in this one space in public andyou don't have to stay.
If you don't want, you canwatch them jump on trampolines,
I don't care, but you don't haveto stay.
So, anyway, accomplishmentschecked off.
So we're gonna wrap thisepisode by saying, as always, as
jenny would say, make goodchoices and love you mean it.
(47:04):
Bye, bye.
Hello, hello friends, we're so glad you're
here today.
Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up.
This is the how-to show withhosts who have medication that
helps them be grown-ups.
So, yeah, so.
Ariella Monti (00:15):
I love you, edsonis, uh-huh.
Caitlin Kindred (00:17):
Yep Better living through pharmacy, life
right Through pharmacology.
Okay, I'm Caitlin and with metoday co-hosting for Jenny is
Ariella Monti, the author of myfavorite spicy novel Roots in
Ink, and she is a velvet voicetornado of brilliance and
(00:39):
kindness.
Ariella Monti (00:40):
Oh, I love it.
Thanks, that's a good one.
Caitlin Kindred (00:43):
Mm-hmm, Sometimes it's just a matter of
taking a bunch of adjectives andsmooshing them into a thing
right, that's basically mywriting strategy.
This is why I need series,Otherwise I will go off on
rantages.
Okay, so today we're continuingthat series on ADHD with a
(01:05):
conversation about burnout and,in particular, masking.
So I have a story that I'mgoing to share with you, dear
listener, and you because you'rehere suffering on this episode
with me, Ariella.
Okay.
So here's the story.
While I was teaching here inTexas before, Jenny and I really
(01:28):
got super close but we hadstarted being friends and had
each other's phone numbers.
At this point, I remember hersending me a text that said this
is why and I'm going to inserta comment here our friend right,
this is why Ashley and IAshley's, our friend want to be
(01:49):
you when we grow up.
So this is why we want to beyou when we grow up.
Like, okay, I just rememberthinking in that moment I get
this text and I'm like what thisis?
This is insane.
Why does anybody want to be mewhen they grow up?
And I bet Jenny is sittingthere going like I still want to
be Caitlyn when I grow up.
I could hear her being likestill, but now she knows more
(02:12):
about what the chaos that is whoI am.
But I truly, especially in thatmoment, felt like I was barely
holding on to my life.
Right, I was a new mom at thatpoint.
My son was probably less than ayear old, or maybe he was like
right around a year, year and afew months.
Okay, I was new to Texas.
I'd only been there for a fewmonths in a new job, which means
(02:38):
first year teacher vibes allover again.
And if you know, you know I hadno money, my license plates
were still Colorado plates,which means the tags were crazy,
expired and I had a sinusinfection.
Like I remember all these thingsbeing like why I do not have
(03:01):
myself together, why does anyonethink that I have myself
together?
So the compliment, which isstill one of my favorite
compliments I've ever received,is felt unearned in that moment.
Right, Like why, who on earthwants to be this hot mess?
But I can see their point whenI look back on it.
I looked like I had my lifetogether.
Right, I would come to work, Idid my work.
(03:22):
I was not a complete cryingmess all the time at work, even
though I wanted to be.
It's my brain that wasscrambled up and I was at that
point and I still am super greatat masking, and here's why this
matters for moms.
(03:43):
Society expects women,especially moms, to be organized
, emotionally regulated,self-sacrificing All qualities
that ADHD brains are not wiredfor.
Ariella Monti (04:03):
No.
Caitlin Kindred (04:09):
All the things we are bad at right exactly.
It is a surefire way to burnyourself out, which is something
that moms simply cannot affordto do.
This is why we did an entireseries on self-care.
Moms cannot let burnout besomething that they experience.
So, before we get into more ofthis, I do need to say as always
, please remember that I am nota doctor, I am not a
(04:29):
psychiatrist or any type ofhealth professional, mental or
otherwise.
Ariella Monti (04:34):
Nor am I.
I am a yoga teacher, and thatis not the same as a mental
health professional, no matterwhat your yoga teacher might
tell you, unless, your yogateacher is actually a mental
health professional and mymental health professional.
No matter what your yogateacher might tell you, unless,
your yoga teacher is actually amental health professional and
my mental health professionalhappens to be a yoga teacher.
But that is an exception.
Caitlin Kindred (04:53):
Right.
No matter how many essentialoils she tries to sell you, she
is not a doctor.
Okay, so nothing againstessential oils.
They make my house smell great,but they are not medicine.
So my perspective here is my own.
I did my research, I promise.
But much of this is coming frommy personal experience and I
hope that if you happen to seeyourself in what I'm talking
(05:15):
about today, that you feelvalidated.
Remember that you're not aloneand seek help from a mental
health professional if that'ssomething that you need.
Okay, so my sources for todayare myself, obviously, and a
couple of articles from Attitudemagazine which we've talked
about in the past ADD Attudemagazine.
(05:37):
One of them is why masking is aform of self-sabotage, by
Sharon Salin, who's a doctor,and also Natalie Pezentes, and
another one that I used wasrising from ADHD Burnout, a
recovery kit for women, by KateMoruseff, and these are both
linked in the blog post for thisepisode.
So please go check that out,along with some other resources
(05:58):
that I'll mention along the way.
So what is ADHD masking?
I mean, think about what a maskis.
Now apply that to your life andyou know those commercials with
like, the, the depression, theantidepressant commercials, with
the person who, like, wears thelittle smiley face piece of
paper on a stick.
(06:19):
It's a mask.
Yeah, so this quote from one ofthe articles really kind of hit
me.
It was, um, exactly what Idescribed in the message from
jenny.
I appear very organized to theoutside world, but only because
I spend an immense amount oftime and energy putting
everything together.
Yeah, right that's relatablemasking is a coping strategy,
(06:46):
okay, so what it means is you'recamouflaging your ADHD traits
to fit in.
Maybe that's forcing your focus, hiding your forgetfulness,
mimicking neurotypical habits ormimicking other people's
behaviors, and lots ofneurodivergent people do it.
It's common in autism as well,but again, we talked about that.
(07:09):
Overlap is really common, butthere are lots of other
neurodivergent types that willdo this.
It starts out being helpfulagain, coping strategy but it
starts to get exhausting, andwe'll talk about why in just a
minute.
It starts to get exhausting andwe'll talk about why in just a
minute.
Masking is more common in womenthan it is in men, for a couple
(07:31):
of reasons Again one of theones I already mentioned.
We'll get to.
But there's this general fear ofbeing called flaky or lazy or
too much right.
Nobody wants to be called thesethings.
They're negative, it doesn'tfeel good.
Or too much right.
Nobody wants to be called thesethings.
They're negative, it doesn'tfeel good.
The other is that societalconditioning that I mentioned a
little bit ago to be pleasingand competent, and all of that
(07:57):
tends to create certain types ofbehaviors or habits that are
compensatory for these ADHDsymptoms.
Okay, so some examples might beyou stay late at work to
over-prepare for a meeting thatyou have the next day because
you were distracted by somethingso you had some time.
(08:20):
Blindness on some other tasks,right?
Or you say I forgot my planner,instead of saying I actually
lost it again.
You know, my fifth one thisyear, whatever, no big deal.
So you're trying to avoid shamewith a lie.
Okay, mimicking other mom'sroutines, even when they don't
(08:40):
work for your brain.
They don't work for your brain.
Mimicking other behaviors, as Imentioned, maybe dressing the
same way or showing up with thesame new Stanley water bottle,
whatever it is.
Sometimes these behaviors sortof come out and they're common
among moms.
(09:02):
The issue is that there are alot of negative consequences
that come along with masking thefirst one of them being delayed
and or sabotage diagnosis ofADHD, and this one kind of
speaks for itself here.
And one thing I always said tomy students was if you go to the
(09:25):
doctor for a stomach ache or abroken bone but you don't
actually tell the doctor what'swrong with you, how is the
doctor supposed to give you thetreatment that you need?
The same goes for youracademics.
If you don't tell me what helpyou need, I cannot support you.
I think the connection betweenthat metaphor and mental health
is pretty obvious here.
Yeah, I agree, you have to bevocal about your struggles, okay
(09:51):
, and show them to people.
You can't hide them, otherwiseyou won't get the help you need.
So another consequence is theinability to find things that
work for their brain.
So, because you maybe don'trealize that you've sabotaged
your diagnosis, or you don'trealize that you have ADHD, or
(10:12):
you haven't accepted that that'swhat's going on with your brain
, you can then not figure outwhat actually works for you,
right, like when you put yourfaith in this new planner that's
gonna be the one.
Ariella Monti (10:29):
That's the one.
Caitlin Kindred (10:31):
Right, this is the one that will make
everything better because itdoesn't have dates on it.
So when I skip months at a time, it won't make me feel bad,
Except then you stop using itbecause it doesn't have dates on
it, Right?
Like there's all of thesethings that you know you end up
putting your faith in that don'tactually work, Right?
(10:53):
Another consequence this is abig one, and we've talked about
it before is that comorbiditiespiece.
Other mental health disordersoften develop as a result of
masking, because all of thatworry and stress of covering up
your ADHD behaviors, yoursymptoms, who you really are,
(11:15):
can lead to anxiety anddepression and burnout.
This one I feel like someonewas maybe talking to me directly
and is shaking me at the moment, so I'm just gonna put this
here and Jenny is gonna be likeI told you, girl Perfectionism.
So I have to read this quotebecause it's just so good.
(11:39):
Overly sensitive to their ownperceived faults, people who
mask may also be hyper-aware ofthose traits in others and even
develop an intolerance for them.
Perfectionism combined withimposter syndrome can also
intensify rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria If something isn't
(12:00):
perfect, then it can be seen asanother failure, adding to a
sense of personal worthlessness,In case you didn't need therapy
before, you might now afterthat quote.
So in the article one of thearticles I mentioned earlier
there's one woman who said shespent so much of her early years
(12:23):
being late to stuff that nowshe's obsessed with being on
time and when other people arelate she views that as a
personal attack on herself.
Ariella Monti (12:33):
Yeah.
Caitlin Kindred (12:35):
Hi RSD, like that's what.
That is right, it's someoneelse's tardiness is not a
reflection of you.
I know the phrase honor yourtime is a big one right now, and
it's true.
You do need to honor people'stime At the same time.
Someone else's lateness is notsomeone telling you that you are
not worth their time.
Ariella Monti (12:53):
Right, so just keeping that in mind.
Caitlin Kindred (12:55):
But also it's very like Hector projector to
hate someone else's tardinesswhen you know you have a history
of tardiness, right?
Okay, another one.
Another consequence of masking,and this one is also very real
for me Imposter syndrome, poorself-esteem and this sense of
(13:17):
like who even am I feeling rightand I'll explain why.
So, as I mentioned, masking isa coping strategy, and people
with ADHD mask because they feelinadequate.
The failures stick out in theirbrains more so than any win.
The wins get overlooked, andwe're talking about things like
(13:40):
not taking credit for your work.
Saying something was a teameffort when it really wasn't
because you did all the work.
Calling something good luckwhen really the good luck was
that you worked hard.
Right, it's more than humility.
It's completely dismissing anycontribution that you made to
the success of whatever thevictory was.
(14:02):
And then all of that, all thatdoes is make you feel like bad
about yourself, because it's it.
You are not responsible for anyof the success.
It's not helpful, and all ofthat time literally pretending
to be someone else could just bewhoever you're around in that
(14:23):
moment creates this verydistorted sense of who you are.
So when you realize that whoyou think you are is just a
masked version of your real self.
You can see how that might makesomeone feel incredibly lost in
who.
They are Right that one hurts alittle bit.
(14:48):
Again, therapy is something.
I need to go find my newtherapist.
Ariella Monti (14:55):
I mean, like how often have I just like dropped
something and you and our othermom friends would be like
Ariella, that's amazing.
And I'm just like yeah, yeah,yeah, but Like all the time I
quite literally just did this.
Caitlin Kindred (15:13):
Yesterday.
I built this web page for aclient.
It is, if I may say so, prettygreat.
I worked really hard on it fordays and it's about to go live
and I did get some input andfeedback from people on the team
and so I can't say I dideverything myself and I, you
(15:36):
know, got some support from AIand things like that and lots of
research, whatever.
But ultimately I did put thispage together and the first
thing I said was oh no, it's ateam effort.
Ariella Monti (15:49):
Not really, but okay.
Caitlin Kindred (15:54):
Yeah, me and deep seek hanging out together,
but like otherwise, no, like Ireally did most of the work
myself and I literally just didit.
Like what, Anyway?
So there is a link also betweenmasking and burnout, and I did
mention burnout earlier as oneof the consequences of masking,
and here's how this connectionworks.
Masking is hard and peopledon't realize how difficult it
(16:16):
actually is, because if they'renot doing it, they don't get it
Right.
It's like teaching If you'renot in the trenches you just
don't know.
So it's really hard to maintainand it keeps people from getting
to know who you really are.
So you kind of block people outa little bit, and again, that
(16:36):
includes yourself.
So it gets a little bit lonelyand when you're on the verge of
burnout you need people tosupport you.
Right, and it only takes you sofar because you really can't
mimic your way into successfulwork and social habits.
Mimic your way into successfulwork and social habits, yeah,
(16:59):
yeah.
And I'd like to define burnouthere, because I think we need to
know what it actually is.
Burnout is chronic stress.
Let's try that one more time.
Burnout I'm going to leave thatin, just so you can hear me
flub my word.
Burnout is chronic stress plusemotional depletion and feeling
ineffective altogether.
Okay, so ADHDers tend to burnout faster because masking
(17:20):
requires extra mental effort.
It's like speaking a secondlanguage all day long.
I don't know if you've everseen I don't know how familiar
you are with Modern Family, butI love that show and there's a
scene where Sofia Vergara saysdo you know how smart I would be
if I could speak in my ownlanguage?
(17:42):
What I'm thinking in a languagethat isn't my own?
So I'm doing twice the thinkingright, and that's really what's
happening here.
I don't know about you, ariel,but I personally feel like I
have to work so hard just to getthings crossed off my to-do
list and I'll watch my boss andshe's like cranking out stuff.
(18:04):
She's like, well, I did thisdraft of this page and then I
wrote this blog and then Iworked on this and and I'm going
to be back in a minute I'm likehow did you do three things in
five hours?
And here I am still working onthe same one.
How did you do that?
I admire it and I question,like how she does that, because
(18:25):
I'm working twice as hard to getone thing done.
Ariella Monti (18:29):
Yep, yeah, it happens to me all the time,
especially thinking like oh,I've got four, a block of four
hours to work.
Today I should be able to sayfinish an entire chapter.
Like, yeah, I could do that.
And then it takes my brain somuch work to get those words
(18:55):
like from my mind to myfingertips and onto the screen
and like the four hours is goneand I only have like 200 words
written down.
You know, like it's.
Caitlin Kindred (19:11):
It's really hard.
And there's another piece ofthis too that you just mentioned
, where you just said get achapter done.
But there's so much that goesinto that and our brains don't
think of it as one task.
We think of it as like the 15tasks.
I have to sit down, I have topower my computer up, I have to
open up the document, I have tothis and this and this and this
(19:31):
and this.
Oh, I have to have this windowin this position because I work
on this window, but I look atthis one for all my reference.
There's so many little thingsthat require your attention that
that one task it's not that youdidn't get anything done, it's
that you can't estimate how muchtime the other little tasks are
going to take you.
(19:52):
You have time blindness.
We have no sense of how longthings take.
And then also there's it's moreeffort for us to get through
the little things too.
So that can totally causeburnout, as I've mentioned
before.
The phrase, the work betweenthe work that's what gets us
right.
And then you add to it thatthere's the emotional labor of
(20:13):
suppressing emotions, like yourRSD meltdowns.
That is also exhausting.
There is that sense of anxietythat comes from underperforming.
That's exhausting.
There is ADHDers struggle withemotional regulation as it is,
we go hot, pulled really quickly.
It's seriously zero to 100 onsome things.
(20:34):
Or we don't quite know what ouremotions are until something
triggers us and we're actuallyangry and we didn't know we were
angry.
So that can lead to a lot ofburnout for people.
And then you add for moms momsdon't get true downtime most of
the time.
You add for moms, moms don'tget true downtime most of the
(21:01):
time.
No, no, recovery requires rest.
Moms don't get rest.
So I just want to put out somesigns.
You might be feeling burned outand not just tired.
I'm going to put this hereConstant overwhelm, irritability
and numbness to what's going onaround you, physical symptoms
like headaches, insomnia,getting sick, often like stomach
aches, things like that, andthen also just the general sense
(21:22):
of feeling like a failure, eventhough you're doing a lot of
things.
Those are burnout symptoms.
Please seek help and get restif you are experiencing them.
So I think the big thing weneed to talk about here is how
to actually unmask yourself ifyou find yourself exhibiting
these behaviors.
So here are some practicalstrategies to reduce your
(21:44):
masking, conserve your energyand do so without coming unglued
.
So one you're going to try toidentify your masks.
Adhders are terrible atmetacognition, as in thinking
about your thinking, so youmight actually have to, like,
write some things down here.
(22:05):
You might say where am Iperforming as a normie?
Where am I performing as anormie neurotypical, instead of
honoring my brain, like when isit the Caitlyn show, right?
When do I do that so that I canidentify that as a trigger,
(22:27):
whatever that is that's causingme to be a normie in those
moments, I can write that downas a space to stop and
reconsider.
How am I trying to keep upappearances?
Am I posting pictures of myhouse in this perfectly staged,
clean area and then behind me isa mess For me, no, my house is
just a mess and you can comeright in and it's fine, but I
will be embarrassed that you'reseeing it.
(22:47):
So there's that.
But what parts of yourself doyou actively find yourself
hiding from others?
This is something I do inprivate.
Nobody else knows about it andI won't ever talk about it.
That's a masking media, right?
If it means watching pimplepopping videos, I do that too,
(23:08):
so don't worry about it.
Okay, so the next thing youneed to do so.
Gross is drop the shoulds, forexample.
I'm so bad at this.
This is so hard.
It's so hard.
For example, if visual clutter,like what I was just talking
about, doesn't bother you, thendon't apologize for it because
(23:31):
it doesn't bother you, right?
If it's in your house, youdon't need to apologize for it
because you live there, notsomeone else.
They don't like it, then theydon't have to have a house that
has visual clutter in it.
There we go.
Should is a bad word in themental health space.
Maybe you've heard the phrase.
Stop shooting all over yourself.
(23:52):
It's true and it's real, and itjust brings shame on yourself,
so you really need to let it go.
I loved this resource fromAttitude Magazine.
It's called Squirrel Bingo.
Ariella Monti (24:09):
I'm in, I know right, me too.
It's an anti-shame game.
It's literally a bingo game.
Caitlin Kindred (24:18):
So that you can , yeah, feel shame about certain
things.
I linked it in the blog postfor the episode.
I'm gonna start playing itbecause, first of all, gamifying
anything for an ADHDer is a win, and then, yeah, anything
that's gonna make me not beashamed of things I don't need
to be ashamed of is another win.
So I'm going to do it and letme know if you play.
I want to hear about it.
(24:39):
Put it in the DMs, share apicture, tag us, I want to know.
Another thing you need to do tounmask is practice
self-compassion.
We have talked about this somuch on this show, but I need to
share this quote from an ADHDcoach.
Her name is Linda.
I am going to say her namewrong.
(24:59):
I think it's Rosalie, but mightbe pronounced a different way.
So sorry, linda, apologies inadvance.
Her quote is your masks haveprotected you in the past, but
release them with love.
So it's time to startpracticing talking to yourself
(25:21):
in a kind way.
I think I've shared this beforeand you've probably heard me
say it, but my friend Elsie didnot like it when I said
something negative about myselfand she would correct me by
saying don't talk about myfriend that way.
I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm sostupid and she's like don't talk
about my friend.
Ariella Monti (25:31):
That way, I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm so stupid
and she's like don't talk aboutmy friend that way and I'm
pretty sure I've said it to you,oh yeah, and I picked it up and
now I say it to the child when,yeah, when he says stuff like
that, yeah, I said don't, don'ttalk about my friend that way,
and then I have to explain whatthat means and yeah, I I will
say to my son and I'll say don'ttalk about about my son that
way, like you know, I mean youcould change it that way.
Caitlin Kindred (25:53):
But, um, I have started saying this to not just
my friends, uh, not just myfamily, but also myself, cause I
gotta be my own friendsometimes, right?
Uh, so I will say don't talkabout my friend that way.
To myself, when I hear myselfsaying things like that and I
(26:15):
actually did it to myself as Iwas writing the notes for this
episode it's like, oh my God,yeah, it was an interesting
situation.
Okay, remember that part ofself-compassion and self-care is
self-advocacy.
Asking for help is not onlyokay, but it's a good thing and
(26:38):
it will ease the pain of takingoff that mask a little bit.
The problem with self-advocacyfor ADHDers is that we often
have a hard time identifyingwhat our needs actually are.
So I like to say it'sindependence, it's really not,
it's like fake independence.
Yeah, I don't really know, butstopping to think what am I
(26:59):
afraid of and what do I need mayhelp you find some solutions
for whatever's going on.
And something that's scary forpeople, including myself and
other people I know, isre-evaluating your boundaries
that may come as a result of youasking yourself what do I need?
(27:21):
It might mean that you need tore reevaluate your boundaries
around a certain person or foryourself, like what keeps me
safe?
Things like that, and that canbe a little bit frightening.
And just putting that out thereas a warning to people who are
doing this and don't forget thatyour sense of humor has a real
(27:44):
place in self-compassion.
Laughing just feels good.
Lean into opportunities to dothat so that when your ADHD
symptoms show up in a funny way,it's okay to laugh about it.
I mean, that's really why Arieland I are doing this, because
(28:05):
the things our brains do.
I cannot tell you how manycabinet doors I have left open
just in the past couple.
It's a lot.
I think we started calling itthe ghost in my house.
Uh-oh, the ghost left thecabinet open.
Oh, she needs a name.
It's got to be a woman.
It needs, like an old lady name.
(28:26):
Help me think of one Mildred.
Yes, okay, mildred.
Left the cabin open again.
Dang it, mildred, okay.
The next one is outsource andadapt.
So use tools like meal kits andautomatic bill pay and other
(28:46):
things like that instead offorcing traditional symptoms or
symptoms systems for yourself.
Automatic bill pay is myfavorite thing in the world.
Otherwise, I would forget topay everything, and I often do
forget to pay bills that come tome, even though I know that
they're there.
I will see them, and thenthey're away from my brain
because they're not right infront of me anymore.
(29:06):
So and again, if you're juststarting this journey of
unmasking and trying to findthings that work for you, I
would say there is no betterhyper fixation than learning
about your own brain.
Honestly, empower yourself withinformation.
Attitude magazine is a fabulousresource if you don't know
where to start.
(29:27):
I love reddit always for triedand true, practical things that
people are willing to share withyou.
Like it is okay to go and behyper fixated on your brain for
a little while to learn aboutyourself and what your needs are
.
Um, and my another one, one ofmy favorites find your people,
(29:50):
and I'm going to say this withlove.
You masked for a reason andthat's because there are people
out there who are mean andcrappy and, yes, it's true that
people might react negatively asyou start to unmask yourself
and show who you really are, butthis is not middle school and
(30:11):
you are not obligated to carrythe weight of other people's
opinions about you, so thoseopinions should not dictate how
you live your life.
Now, sometimes you're in asituation with work you have to
tolerate someone's opinion ofyou.
It's your boss, it's someonewhatever.
I get that.
However, that person does notmatter in any other capacity but
(30:37):
your job.
So leave that mess at the joband separate yourself from it as
soon as you walk out the doorand separate yourself from it as
soon as you walk out the door.
Ariella Monti (30:50):
Okay, and adding to that, you might find, as you
learn about your ADHD, that youhave already surrounded yourself
with other adhd people who justdon't know that they're adhd.
Caitlin Kindred (31:12):
and as you all start to unmask together, it
just brings you closer whenthere was some meme about that
that I saw that was like all ofmy friends have ADHD and I don't
, but I have.
But I see this in common, andthe person was like hate to
(31:34):
break it to you, pal, butthere's a reason.
All of your friends have ADHD,right, because you also have it.
All of you weirdos get together.
All of you weirdos get together.
(32:01):
Okay, that also might mean, inaddition to the weirdos who love
you, that you find other ADHDfriendly people who don't judge.
Maybe that's a professionaltherapist or an ADHD coach If
any are listening, I need help.
Maybe that's other ADHDers,maybe that's especially other
ADHDers who maybe you identifywith in some way maybe same
gender norms, same sexualorientation, racially, something
like that might be also reallygood crew for you to be with.
And you know, hopefully youhave other people in your life
(32:22):
Like my partner does not haveADHD.
However, he is verycompassionate and understanding
and is encouraging me to ask forthe things that I need and
advocate for myself, and I hopethat that's someone, even if
they're neurotypical.
You have someone in your lifelike that.
And the last one I'm going toalso say with love and I really
(32:43):
want to swear here, but this isa non-swearing show, so I'm
going to say it as best I canSchedule rest like it's a
meeting.
If you're experiencing burnout,burnout, recovery requires
actual rest, not watchingpimple-popping videos in your
bed on YouTube late at night,caitlin.
So, mama, I say this to youwith all the love in the world,
(33:07):
and here's where I want to swearGo the F to sleep, do not stay
up, do not take your alone timeat night when everyone else is
asleep.
Do that for 15 minutes and goto bed, put nap on the family
calendar and then go the F tosleep.
Do it, your brain needs it andnothing is more important than
(33:30):
your rest, my dear.
Not one single thing, becauseliterally, moms cannot afford to
be burnt out.
So I'm nodding Like I agreewith.
Ariella Monti (33:42):
I agree with you as I continue to ignore the get
ready for bed alarm that goesoff.
You're smart to have an alarm.
Sunday through Thursday I mean,but I ignore it like every
single day.
Caitlin Kindred (33:56):
So We'll get better at it.
We'll get better, okay.
So, in conclusion, as a seventhgrader would finish their essay
In conclusion.
So, in conclusion, as a seventhgrader would finish their essay
in conclusion, no.
To wrap this up, I have to saymasking think of masking like
(34:18):
Spanx folks.
It's uncomfortable and whocares if you're wearing it?
Because, as the veryintelligent founder of the we Do
Not Care Club, if you don'tknow what I'm talking about, go
look it up.
It's hilarious Says we do notcare.
So no one cares if you wearyour mask.
(34:42):
If you're around the rightpeople, like put it down, I'll
be your friend, so reach out.
So I'm curious if you'relistening to this.
If you have a mask that you'dlike to drop, I would love to
hear about it.
Please again, send us a DM, tagus, tell me about it, because
I'm super curious and let's takea quick break.
(35:03):
And let's take a quick break.
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Use promo code CK and GK to get20% off your copy at
(35:27):
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Again, that's all capsC-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on
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Get your copy for 20% off today.
We are back now and, becausewe're talking about adhd, we've
(35:52):
renamed our circle time stuff tohyper fixations.
Right now and tell me all aboutit I don't know see
(36:16):
metacognition.
We're so bad at it, okay.
Well then, I'll share mine.
Are you ready?
Ariella Monti (36:20):
I'm sure, well.
Well, now I'm looking at thescript there it is there, your
hyper fixation is definitely anongoing hyper fixation of mine,
so let's talk about it okay, myscript says burbs, burb.
Caitlin Kindred (36:42):
I I've had this thing with, like, trying to
make sure my bird feeders in myyard are always full.
Um, I have bird feeders thatsquirrels cannot get into.
Until mother's day when I gotone of those bird feeders that
has a camera on it, and I'm sointo this.
You guys like and you know thatbird is the word song that they
(37:07):
have all the time in family guy, I've been singing that but,
like with burb, it would be irbinstead of instead of bird.
Uh, I cannot get enough of thiscamera.
And then the squirrels startedeating all the food and these
little squirrels, like theyscooped all the food out of it
and onto the ground.
It was teamwork.
(37:27):
I saw two of them one of themon the camera I'm watching scoop
everything onto the ground.
So I go out and check and, yep,there it is just scooping
everything onto the ground,emptying the entire feeder, and
the other squirrel is underneath, like what is happening here.
So now I now I've bought newspicy food because birds are
(37:49):
immune to capsaicin, which iswhat the spice is, and squirrels
are not.
So I'm hoping that by puttingthat in the feeder with the
camera, the squirrels learn tostay away from it and only the
birds eat it.
But I have seen blue jays.
Only the birds eat it, but Ihave seen blue jays.
I have a cardinal couple thatshows up and there's a little
girl who is just as all sassy ascan be and she puts her mohawk
(38:12):
up and shows me her butt on aregular basis and then one time
she looked in the camera likewho's in here and it was really
funny.
I have a pair of doves thatshow up, pair of uh doves that
show up, but I'm hoping that,with a diff with this new spicy
food, that other birds show uptoo, because they they tend to
like this.
It's like suet based orsomething, I don't know.
(38:33):
Whatever.
I don't know anything aboutthis, but I've I'm hyper fixated
on these birds, burbs.
Anyway, if I, I will actuallystart posting some of these
pictures because you guys, someof them are so fun they are,
they are pretty amazing aren'tthey so cool oh my gosh, yeah,
(38:54):
yeah.
Ariella Monti (38:54):
I'll have to also share with the, with the crowd,
the picture of the squirrel inmy window feeder oh, and that
was wild.
Caitlin Kindred (39:06):
How did it get up that high?
And there's nothing for to likelaunch itself from.
I don't understand.
Ariella Monti (39:11):
Yeah, so this you know, for the, for the readers,
readers, for the listeners whodon't know what my house looks
like.
Yeah, so my office has a windowand on it's on the second floor
and on that window I've put oneof those like suction cup
feeders and it's been there, ifI want to say, like two-ish
(39:34):
years.
It's been here for a while andthere is so maybe like six or so
feet in one direction there islike a little like overhang for
our porch, and then on the otherside, maybe like four or so
feet away, is the overhang forthe side door.
(39:55):
So there is like something thatthey can kind of launch
themselves from.
But there there's like nothingelse, there it's just the
windowsill.
So they are launchingthemselves, or I think it's just
one of them launching herself.
(40:15):
I'm pretty sure it's a femalelaunching herself from the
overhang to the feeder and justhanging out having a blast yeah,
you have to share that pictureyou have to because it's pretty
wild right and the crafty thefunniest part about it is that
(40:41):
there are easier feeders toaccess.
Like, like I purposely put foodout in For the squirrels.
For the squirrels, like, I givethem peanuts and I purposely
put you know feeders that arenot squirrel-proof out there, so
that if they do dump it like,it's fine.
But yeah, this one, my worry isthat these suction cups are
(41:08):
gonna give out and the entirething is gonna come crashing
down to the ground.
I mean, I think from from whatI've learned from you know those
mark rober videos with like thesquirrel olympics and stuff
yeah, the squirrel will probablybe okay but still I'm like
waiting for this thing to gocrashing down onto the pavement
(41:28):
below.
That would be awful.
Caitlin Kindred (41:30):
Well, it's not the fall that'll kill it, it's
the bounce.
So whatever.
But we've been talking about mybirb obsession and that's where
this whole picture came fromand it is wild, so I hope you
share it because it's prettycrazy.
I have no idea how it and ithad to launch itself like that's
(41:51):
the only thing it could havedone.
Right, all right, uh, thingsthat we finally accomplished
this week.
Do you have a thing?
Ariella Monti (42:01):
I do, but I can't remember.
I'm I'm actually looking atlike my brain dump.
I'm like what did I do thisweek?
Like I definitely did stuff,but what was it?
Like, what did I do?
Caitlin Kindred (42:16):
Like I'm sure I did something that I've been
putting off, but like what Idon't know, as I'm saying things
like ADHDers are terrible atthinking about their thinking
like what, like terrible attaking credit for things that we
accomplish, like but this iswhy.
Ariella Monti (42:32):
This is why, like , you got to write down all the
things that you've accomplished,because otherwise, like, it's
just never going to happen.
I guess the one thing that doesthe the one thing I did early
how's this?
The thing that I did early wasreformat.
So I've got my two novellas area certain, there are certain
(42:55):
trim size.
They're like five by seven orwhatever, and I decided to
reformat them so that they aresmaller.
They're four by six ish, whichis what we call like mass market
paperback size.
So those are like the, thepaperbacks that, like, your mom
or grandma used to get at likethe grocery store with like on
the cover.
(43:16):
Yeah, so they're like that size.
So my cover cover designer wasgoing to work on those this
month and I actually got into mysoftware and I went and
reformatted everything so Icould send her some templates
and I was like, yes, I got doneearly, nice, and then she got
(43:40):
done early.
She worked on it like two weeksearly, so now that's amazing
yeah, now I can get those thoseout yeah, that's great.
Caitlin Kindred (43:51):
I'm thinking like purse sized, like that's
what I have in my head is likeyou could buy it at the grocery
store and then you could shoveit in your purse, that's exactly
one of the that's.
Ariella Monti (44:01):
That's basically why they were made like that so
that they could be like shoved.
They could be discreet andhidden.
Hide your smut in your bagright, but it's what it's got.
Caitlin Kindred (44:12):
Fabio on the cover like yeah, that's fair.
Ariella Monti (44:14):
There's nothing discreet, no, no, anyway that's
why you have to hide them inyour bag right, that's true.
Caitlin Kindred (44:21):
Yeah, couldn't read them on the subway like
some people are doing these days.
Anyway, uh, my thing is and Ican't even take all the credit
for, because I literally,literally cannot is planning my
child's birthday party again.
(44:46):
That's why I can't take credit.
This is not me being humblehere, this is no.
He actually did this and then Idesigned the invitation, of
course with my child's input,and, like, put all the
information together and now theonly thing I have left to do is
find the missing emailaddresses for the parents and
send it out.
Now that hurdle is going to bea problem and I know I need to
do it.
So it's actually like in myhead that I need to do that
(45:07):
today, because my son's birthdayis in a month and it's over the
summer and I want families tohave enough time to plan and
decide and whatever.
So, anyway, I'm very proud ofmyself for at least getting that
far in the planning.
Ariella Monti (45:20):
Yes, progress is wellness right right, you, uh,
you are already farther than Iam with my son's birthday, which
is only like a week after yourson's birthday and more than
that, though, is it?
Caitlin Kindred (45:36):
it's two weeks?
Yeah, it's two weeks.
Ariella Monti (45:38):
You got time two weeks you got time I mean, I
know what.
Thankfully he just wants a likesplash, like a backyard splash
party.
Caitlin Kindred (45:48):
And.
Ariella Monti (45:49):
I was like cool, give me the name of like five
friends, yep, and thankfully Ithink I know all those five
people.
Caitlin Kindred (45:59):
So that's great .
Yeah, I do not know thesepeople and I also am telling I'm
going to just if you'replanning a birthday party we've
talked about this before, we'vedone like birthday party
episodes Please inform theparents whether or not they need
to stay.
This is a self-containedlocation and we are at the stage
of life where parents do notneed to stay anymore.
(46:21):
So I am telling all the parentswe don't know't know each other
, like, feel free to drop yourkid off and then leave and then
just come back, come back in twohours, like it's fine.
So it's one of the benefits ofnot knowing the parents as your
child gets older is that you canthen say we're all going to be
(46:42):
in this one space in public andyou don't have to stay.
If you don't want, you canwatch them jump on trampolines,
I don't care, but you don't haveto stay.
So, anyway, accomplishmentschecked off.
So we're gonna wrap thisepisode by saying, as always, as
jenny would say, make goodchoices and love you mean it.
(47:04):
Bye, bye.
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