July 8, 2025 • 31 mins
Why do ADHD moms go from talking about birds to debating Chris Evans’ best role in 2.5 seconds? Surprise—it’s not distraction (okay, not just distraction)—it’s your creative superpower. Here’s how ADHD brains are wired for next-level creativity (and how to harness it).
—
Who Should Listen
- Moms who’ve been called “too much” for seeing connections no one else does.
- ADHDers who hyperfocus on Pinterest projects at 2AM (then forget to eat).
- Anyone who needs science-backed proof their brain isn’t broken—it’s brilliant.
—
What You Get In This Episode
- The 3 ADHD Creativity Superpowers
- Divergent thinking (how you leap from birds to Chris Evans in one convo).
- MacGyver-mode: Using paperclips for everything but paperwork.
- Inventing truly new solutions (not just recycling old ones).
- Why Hyperfocus = Your Secret Weapon
- How falling down hobby rabbit holes makes you weirdly skilled.
- The Dark Side >> Next Episode!
- Why chaos kills creativity (and how to build a “stimulation station”).
- Pro Tip
- Brain dump first to avoid abandoned crafts/half-written novels.
—
Bios
Caitlin Kindred: ****ADHD mom who once turned a cereal box and a paperclip into a Wi-Fi extender (it worked for 5 seconds).
Ariella Monti: ****The friend who documents your chaos and says “that’s genius, actually.”
—
Sources & Mentions
- Creativity and ADHD: Don't Stifle Your Creative Mind | ADDitude Mag
- The Creativity of ADHD | Scientific American
- Side Effects of Medication: Will ADHD Meds Squelch My Creativity? | ADDitude Mag
- ADHD and creativity | Understood.org
- ADHD and Creativity: Unveiling the Hidden Superpowers of Neurodiversity | NeuroLaunch
- ADHD and Writing: Overcoming Challenges and Harnessing Creativity | NeuroLaunch
Tag us with your best MacGyver mom hack! (We’re still using LEGOs as phone stands.)
The best support is a rating and a share.
Love,
CK & GK
View our website at ckandgkpodcast.com. Find us on social media @ckandgkpodcast on
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Thanks, y'all!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
hello all the friends .
Hi, we're so glad you're here.
Uh, welcome to how to be agrown-up.
This is the how-to show forwomen who've mastered the art of
conversational tangents, andwe'll circle back to that.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Maybe, yeah, I don't know.
Circle back circle back.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm caitlin, and with me today co-hosting for jenny
is ariela monti.
She's a five-star Yelp reviewcome to life and the author of
the incredible novel Roots inInk and the forthcoming Bound by
Ink in January.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So this is so exciting to have you here again.
I love this.
I'm having a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's been great .
Sorry, as we're trying torecord this, my dog is shoving
my chair around as she uses thechair to rub her own butt
because she loves butt pads.
So if my voice is like shakingaround, it's because the dog is
literally shaking my chair andmoving me all over the place.
(00:59):
About ADHD and creativity,because, as my friend Anne who
in our house is known as friendAnne says, adhd is a superpower
and sometimes we all need alittle reminder about that.
So, before we do, I want toremind our listeners that if you
like your books, like you likeyour campfires nice, slow burn
(01:20):
you can get Ariella's books.
I like it.
You can get Ariella's books Ilike it for 20% off using promo
code ck and gk all one worduppercase on her website,
ariellamontecom, which is linkedin the show notes.
So let's go ahead and getstarted.
I'm gonna let you take overthis conversation because you're
the.
You are the actual creative.
That's how you employ yourself,so I'm just gonna, yeah, I'm
(01:45):
just gonna sit back and do mycrochet while you're talking
nice, nice.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So we've got a whole bunch of sources here.
They will be in the places thatsources live in the show notes
I pulled from a couple ofdifferent places attitude places
, attitude Magazine, scientificAmerica, scientific American
sorry, understoodorg.
And just our lives, ourexistence as ADHD people as we
(02:16):
are.
Yes, yeah, so to get started,caitlin, what comes to mind when
you think of creativity?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think I go to the default definition of like the
artist right.
However, as I've gotten older,I've come to learn that
creativity also involves problemsolving.
So just you know different waysof looking at a problem and how
to tackle it.
(02:45):
I think would also fall underthat category.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Exactly, yeah, and so when we think about creativity,
I think most of us will havethose two kind of related but
also opposing, yeah, ideas ordefinitions, um, and we're gonna
kind of talk about both of themtoday.
(03:11):
But to start, we need to talkabout the aspects of creative
cognition, which is basicallycreative thinking like you were
like the creative problemsolving and like this kind of
goes into what we do as creativepeople.
(03:32):
So there isn't a ton of researchon ADHD and creativity as they
kind of relate to each other,like there's a little bit but
there's not a whole bunch of it.
But there is a lot of researchon creativity and creative
thinking, okay, and kind of howthat works, and I, as y'all know
(03:54):
, am not any sort of brainscientist that's why this works,
because we, we are explainingit to you, as we hope someone
would explain it to us, right?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Plain language jargon-free, no doctor.
Just as it is.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
This is going to be very boiled down and hopefully,
if it tingles your hyperfocus,you turn it into a hyperfixation
and you can dive in more onyour own time.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's why the sources are in the show notes
and go Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So the three aspects of creative cognition are
divergent thinking, conceptualexpansion and overcoming
knowledge constraints.
Those sound like big words andthey do right, yeah actually
very simple concepts, great, andstuff that we, especially as
adhd people, do all the time.
(04:54):
Okay, um, because a little bitof research that there is on
adhd and creativity has shownthat these three aspects of
creative cognition are strengthsin people with ADHD.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, and it's not to say that, like, neurotypical,
people don't have these things.
This is a thing that, like, allpeople do, but people with ADHD
seem to this.
The little bit of research outthere shows that people with
ADHD seem to have an edge, andit seems to be that these are
strengths.
Okay, so divergent thinkingthis is the ability to think of
(05:36):
many ideas from a singlestarting point.
So in this very unscientific,very watered down example of
divergence in thinking, soyou're talking about birds with
your ADHD friends and 15 minuteslater you're discussing the new
movie with Chris Evans andPedro Pascal and you're like how
(05:57):
did we get here but?
if you right, and we all do it.
We're like how did we go frombirds to, you know, love
triangle movie, which I havethoughts on even though I didn't
see it, but that's for anotherepisode.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
There's a whole episode in there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
That's a whole nother episode.
But if you trace that'sactually a really good example
of the next one.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, anyway, circle back, circle back, the next one.
Okay, anyway, circle back,circle back, circle back it's
happening.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So if you trace the conversation you can see how one
thought did lead to another.
But you're kind of like, howdid we get here?
But if you actually sit thereand you're like, well, this
thought led to this, which ledto this why I have to tell four
different stories in relation toyour one story.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
um, because I make, and sometimes those connections
are really obscure and I findmyself doing it in my head and
and then the person I'm talkingto who is not an ADHD person
will be like, wait, what, howdoes that go with this?
And you're like, oh, becauseit's like six degrees of Kevin
Bacon, where I, like I, then Idid this and then I was talking
about this and then I got hereand that's why you can talk
(07:29):
about the office in relation toShakespearean, whatever, like
you know what I mean.
The connection is so random,but it does come from a place of
understanding what you weretalking about initially and and
where all those like synapseswent in my head at one time,
(07:50):
exactly, exactly, super fun.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
The next one is conceptual expansion.
So that's the ability to loosenthe boundaries of concepts,
which is a very science-y way ofsaying that you're going to
MacGyver something.
So when was the last time youMacGyvered something?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
This week when I was trying to stop my dog from
eating what's in the calendarbox.
I don't know why some dogs needto do that, but I had to rig up
something in order to make herstop or, at the very least, make
a loud noise or something.
So I would know she was inthere, because, as clean as I
(08:31):
keep those boxes, I can't stayon top of it all the time.
So, yeah, that's what it was.
So it was this week.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I had one person tell me once that they
didn't like cats because catswere dirty and they used litter
boxes.
And I'm like my dog eats thepoop out of what's in there.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, so right, like I like, I like.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I feel like they're both kind of equally gross,
disgusting animals yeah, I thinkI had an.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I have an injury on my hand and the doctor was like
from my dog?
And my doctor was like so, justso, you know, no matter how
much hydrogen peroxide or,frankly, bleach we put in there,
there will always be bacteriain that wound.
So that's why we don't stitchdog bites.
And I was like, oh great.
(09:22):
So I mean now I'm onantibiotics because of this.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So, like there's, dogs are gross too right, and
now we are not talking about thetopic circling back, circling
back, sir, circling, circlingback okay, I've, ever, I've ever
this week.
Okay, right, you mcgyveredsomething, so so say, you've got
like the like a paperclip, andthe primary use of a paperclip
(09:48):
is to hold individual pieces ofpaper together.
That's the concept of thepaperclip.
Conceptual expansion is whenyou use that paperclip to do
something like pop the SD cardout of your cell phone.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Oh, I thought you were going to talk about how
you're going to use a Clippyreference.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I was waiting for the Microsoft Word Clippy reference
, but yes, I see what you'resaying, so that is a good
example of the next one, whichis overcoming knowledge
constraints.
So, this is the ability toovercome recently presented
information.
So if we're using the paperclipexample, if I ask an ADHD-er
(10:31):
and a neurotypical person tocome up with a brand new way to
hold paper together, and then Igave them examples of tools that
they're already available, likepaperclips, staples and binder
clips, the neurotypical personis more likely to come up with
an invention that incorporatesaspects of the examples but the.
(10:54):
ADHD-er is more likely to comeup with an invention that is
completely new.
So the fact that you connectedpaperclip to clippyippy, which
has nothing to do with holdingpapers together, it has
everything to do with, likemicrosoft word is, is kind of an
example of that thinking, youknow I'm unmedicated today, so
(11:19):
it's gonna be a ride so the real, the real connections and and
all the things are coming outtoday.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So all right?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, that's pretty cool Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's all super interesting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So these are all like cognitive processes that we're
doing every day and they're justkind of like happening in the
backgrounds, you know, whilewe're talking about like
creative problem solving orworking on art.
All of these things are justkind of happening in the
(11:51):
background and those arestrengths that we have that come
.
Other creative strengths thatcome with ADHD is that wide lens
of attention that you know, theability to see the big picture
and how everything workstogether as a whole, and it can
(12:15):
be really overwhelming when wedo that, yeah, but the ability
to sort of see everything andall of like the moving parts, it
can lead to a lot of likecreativity, creative problem
solving and creative ideasthat's super interesting,
because I always feel like I, Imiss the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Like I, I really do feel that way because I think
all of the little details, thelogistics of something bog me
down and make me feel anxious,because I need to know how all
of the little pieces are goingto work.
But maybe that's not the ADHD,that's the anxiety that I also
take pharmaceuticals for.
(12:59):
But I see what you're sayingabout how, like, yes, okay, I
can, I can do those things.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, yeah and think about it as, like so say, you're
gonna sit down and do a project.
If you are planning the project, you have everything kind of in
front of you and you, like youcan kind of see the whole
picture and breaking down to getto the whole ability to kind of
(13:33):
see everything, and I don'tremember where I was going with
that- but also I'm just thinkingabout, like, how all the little
pieces matter in that bigpicture.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Maybe that's kind of what I fixate on, where it's
like I'm seeing, okay, well, ifwe're talking about, for example
, event signage, whereage, I cansee how, like, this piece needs
to look over here and this oneneeds to come to an order for
(14:24):
the signage to look cohesive andall of that stuff.
So that stuff does make sensein my head and the details
matter in that.
But yes, I can see what you'retalking about there.
That makes sense.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, and we got to remember, too, that a lot of
this stuff is going to be likeit's going to be impacted by the
environment that we're in andthat's kind of we're gonna you
know that we're gonna talk aboutlike in the next episode, but
yeah, so it might feel like, ohman, like I really suck at that,
like that is not a I would notconsider that a strength, but it
(14:58):
might be because of everythinglike the world in which we live,
like we're not able to tap intothose strengths as well as we
could have if we were in, like adifferent kind of environment.
Yeah, that makes sense.
You know like if the worldwasn't burning, you know like
maybe Then the event signagewouldn't overwhelm me.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I don't know.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Exactly, and.
But even our hyper focus can beconsidered a creative strength,
because we become consumed bythings that we enjoy, and so if
we find something creative thatwe do enjoy, we want to learn
more about it.
We want to practice more often,and so we do.
We want to learn more about it.
We want to practice more often,and so we do.
(15:41):
We start to get good at it,maybe not like it's not going to
be our career good, but we getto be good at it enough, or we
overcome a problem enough timesthat it gives us like a little
dopamine cookie, and so we domore and so like.
Eventually, you know we, westart to really hone those
(16:02):
skills, because it's a thingthat you know, that we really
enjoy doing and that we canhyper focus on it um and risk
taking, you know like sure, Imean all of these things can
have like a threshold, liketheir strengths until their
weakness.
But, like you know, that ideaof like sure, why not?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
let's see what happens, right when it comes to
creativity, like right, what's Imean?
We're obviously talking about.
We're not talking about likerisk taking in, like cliff
jumping.
We're talking about likeproblem solving and actual
artistic expression, like what'sthe harm in testing these two
colors if I mix them together?
Like why?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
not see what happens.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, that's very different, but yes, I see that
too.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'll do that.
Pottery is really great withthat, because you could have
something.
And then, like you put it inthe kiln and then it's like I
don't know what's going tohappen when it comes.
Like, what is it going to bewhen it comes out of the kiln?
You know, like if I didsomething wrong, like the whole
thing could explode, you know.
And so I'll just go and be like, oh, let's see what happens
(17:12):
when I do this.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And then it comes out of the kiln and it's like, oh,
this is actually prettyinteresting.
You know, the other piece ofthat is with with something like
that is okay, so your structuredidn't work while you were
building it.
So what's the worst thathappens?
You flatten it out and startover like there are.
You know, there are things likethat, where it's like the
creativity and the risk takingare completely part of the
process.
So I yeah, that makes a lot ofsense to me too.
Yeah, yeah, so that is, that'sthe strength of our creativity.
(17:46):
Those are, those are the.
That's one of the benefits ormultiple superpowers we have
within this umbrella of thecreativity superpower.
So next week, what are yousharing with?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
us.
So next week we'll get into thechallenges around creativity,
because you know, like withanything, with ADHD, like with
every up there's a down, and youknow everything's a strength
until it's a weakness, oreverything's a weakness until
it's a strength, and so we'llget into the challenges around
creativity and how to work withyour brain when, you know, gets
(18:21):
a little difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, well, make sure that you, if you're not already
subscribed to our show, makesure that you tap subscribe
right now so you don't miss thatepisode.
We'll be right back after aquick break.
Hey y'all, hey y'all.
(18:43):
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Use promo code CKANDGK to get20% off your copy at
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(19:06):
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Get your copy for 20% off todayand scene.
(19:27):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You were talking about hyper fixations as a
strength I am dying to hear whatyour current one is right now.
Oh uh, well, before we startedrecording, I was hyper fixated
on organizing all my event crapyes it was very, it was very
likely that I was gonna text youand be like I'm gonna be 15
minutes late because, I wasorganizing listen, you gotta
(19:49):
ride that out a half hour, right?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, I, I, I saw a window.
I'm like let me put this stuffaway, and I was just hyper
fixated on getting everythingorganized so that I can store it
for a couple of weeks before mynext event.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So the other problem with that is the needing 15
minutes.
That's the time.
Blindness, that's what that's.
One of the dangers of thathyper fixation is that you
completely underestimate howlong that hyper fixation is
going to last, or the dopamineneed, right like you just don't.
Yeah, I gotcha, I don't knowthat this is a hyper fixation
for me, but I will say this ismy new favorite thing.
(20:35):
Uh, so we'll go with that fornow.
There is a product that I havediscovered called bite away.
No, I am not sponsored.
We've discussed this.
Please sponsor me.
I will happily take yoursponsoringness, folks.
Bite away is is the goat ofmosquito products.
(20:55):
Let me explain.
It's like a little thing thatlooks like a pen and it's about
the size of like a handsanitizer spray bottle.
It is small, okay, you can putit in your purse if you're going
out, whatever, and it hasbatteries.
You turn it on.
It powers on for three secondsor five, whichever one, doesn't
(21:18):
matter, but there's two settingson it and you put this ceramic
tip on the mosquito bite, likedirectly on top of it, when it's
itching or whether it's notdoesn't matter, because
sometimes they flare up and itchhours later, right, and it it
turned.
It gets hot like it's a ceramicplate.
So if you, if you're someonewho's ever used like ceramic
(21:38):
curling iron or straightener,you know these things conduct
heat and it zaps the top of yourmosquito bite, not like an
electrical thing, but it justgets hot and then it kills
whatever, that bacteria orwhatever it is that mosquitoes
leave on your skin in theirsaliva that makes you itch, on
(22:03):
your skin in their saliva thatmakes you itch.
It sounds way more complicatedbecause of the way that I
described it, but think of likea fingertip, a fingertip getting
really hot on your leg forthree seconds, that's it, that's
all it is, and then it doesn'titch at all.
And I have severe reactions tomosquito bites.
I am I don't know if I justreleased copious amounts of
carbon dioxide because they are.
(22:24):
If you are next to me outsideand you get bitten, you will not
get bitten if you're next to me, like I am just the magnet.
And now that I have the dog, Ihave to go in the backyard and
it's humid in Texas and themosquitoes are ridiculous.
And no matter how much youTexas and the mosquitoes are
ridiculous and no matter howmuch you spray, they still are
(22:46):
there.
So I have to have this pen onme at all times and I love this
thing.
As soon as I know the bite'sthere, I put the little bite
away, tip on there and it goesin three seconds and it kind of
hurts.
Not going to lie, it's a littlepainful, but it's only for
three seconds and it's totallyworth it because then I don't
itch anymore.
Completely, 100% worth it.
And all these people are likeit's hurting me.
That is no, it's not, it'shelping you.
(23:07):
Let it burn.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That is wild, it is the best.
That is crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It is.
You know those like.
There's that whole the bug bite.
It's literally called the bugbite thing.
Where you like, suck the venomor whatever it is yeah.
Yeah, no no, I thought thatworked.
I was wrong.
That does not work.
This works.
Okay, I also like lavenderhydrosol, which is a spray you
can get on Amazon.
(23:34):
You can make it yourself.
Just look it up and it doesfeel better, but it doesn't work
.
This works.
I have bites all over my bodyand they do not itch, and
usually I'm the person whoitches for several days after
these butt bites and I am notitching.
I already.
I'm so obsessed with this thingI literally carry it around
from room to room in the housejust in case I get bitten by a
(23:56):
mosquito that we accidentallylet in or I feel a bite later
after I let the dog out.
It's already on the website.
Go to ckngkpodcastcom and clickon resources and then go to our
favorite finds and it's adirect link to it right there.
I'm again, not sponsored.
I just firmly believe in thisproduct.
If you are somebody who itchesfrom mosquito bites all summer
(24:17):
long, like I do this islife-changing information for so
many.
This is why I would consider ita hyperfixation.
This is life-changinginformation that I'm giving you,
and I'm telling literallyeveryone that I know that you
need this product in your life.
So yeah by the way best thingever it's been.
People like it's expensive, thebatteries run out.
They gave you batteries.
(24:37):
What product ever gives youbatteries these days?
Shut up, go buy some Amazonbatteries.
They're relatively.
They come with my like orderevery month.
Who cares?
Just kind of batteries run outafter too many uses.
It would be nice withrechargeable yeah, it would, but
you know what it's not.
So just put the batteries in,shut up and put it on your leg.
(24:59):
You're fine, feels great.
I'm literally standing therelike it burns.
It burns so much better All thetime, so dumb, but I don't care
.
Go get this thing if you itchfrom mosquito bites, by the way,
made in Germany.
(25:20):
I'm not even joking.
Sometimes those Germans makegood stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Alright, I firmly believe in this product.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But let me shut up.
What did we get done this week?
The same thing that my samething of my hyper fixation is
also organizing my vent.
Crap.
Nice, I finally got that doneso.
Now my craft table is free andI can Be creative.
Now I can be creative.
Now I can sew stuff and or dosome pottery.
(26:04):
I have a couple of things thatneed to be glazed, so now I have
a table that I can do someglazing on.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, les, the word glazed, well, obviously I think
of a donut.
But I was watching an episodeof the Valley on Bravo Because
if you've listened to the showbefore at all, you probably know
that I'm a big Bravo person andthis girl on the show was like,
before I I go to bed, I looklike a glazed donut.
(26:35):
There's so much lotion.
I was like, yes, I do that too,got like my lotion, then I put
on like my hydro mask thing andthen I put like Vaseline over it
.
I really do look like a glazeddonut sometimes, but but that's
whenever I hear glaze, that'swhere I go with it.
Now I look like a glazed donutwhen I go to sleep.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that Ifinally got this done, because
(26:57):
this is a new item, but for ouranniversary, which
coincidentally is also on myson's birthday, we were having a
hard time.
We like to do like theme gifts.
It's like you know, 13 yearsand the traditional item is lace
or whatever.
So we were looking for stufflike that and I was like do not
get me anything lace, becauseyou know where men's minds go
(27:21):
when they hear lace.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh yeah, I was just going to say.
I was like do not.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
This is not the time for that, but we were talking
about getting a new likecredenza TV stand thing, our TV
is mounted, but there was theone that we had was like one.
It was too low for the space.
So there's like this big whitespace and you could see all the
cords behind it, becausewhatever genius made this did
(27:43):
not put a back panel on it.
So you can see all the bunchesof cords and stuff and I hate it
.
I hate it so much and I'vehated it for years, because we
could have bundled the cords andwe could have done a thing, but
but that never got done and I'mnot blaming anyone, but I'm not
in charge of the technologyover there so it's got to be
someone else's fault um, but Iwas like, for my anniversary you
(28:05):
can get me a new credenza thingand it can be a two-fold gift
one I get a project because Iget to build something which I
like to do and two I never haveto see the courts ever again
yeahthat's just the gift that keeps
on giving.
So I built that thing.
It's pretty big, it's.
(28:26):
It's pretty big.
It's like six feet long andprobably about three feet high,
or so it's, it's, it's large, ohwow.
It has all these shelves andit's got barn doors that like
slide across, so there's themiddle section and then you can
open the barn doors and I builtthat sucker in like four hours,
man.
Nice.
I'm so proud of myself becausethat's what happened.
(28:47):
Like I got fixated on all thiscrap in my living room.
I don't like it and I want toget the project done.
So that's my hyper fixation winand the task I got done once I
built that thing.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
It's super cute too, I really like nice, I want to
see pictures.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, I'll send you, yeah, okay, so this has been
adhd in real time or, you know,recorded time with kaylin and
ariela.
So, as jenny would say, makegood choices, uh, go forth and
(29:23):
make all the things.
Just if you're gonna make stufffrom a new hyper fixation, just
go get those supplies from abuy nothing group.
Okay, right, you know?
Yeah, on and use it on yourcraft table and I love you.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I mean it bad about the mess, diverging tangents and
how the office connects toshakespeare.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, bye wow.
hello all the friends .
Hi, we're so glad you're here.
Uh, welcome to how to be agrown-up.
This is the how-to show forwomen who've mastered the art of
conversational tangents, andwe'll circle back to that.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Maybe, yeah, I don't know.
Circle back circle back.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm caitlin, and with me today co-hosting for jenny
is ariela monti.
She's a five-star Yelp reviewcome to life and the author of
the incredible novel Roots inInk and the forthcoming Bound by
Ink in January.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So this is so exciting to have you here again.
I love this.
I'm having a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's been great .
Sorry, as we're trying torecord this, my dog is shoving
my chair around as she uses thechair to rub her own butt
because she loves butt pads.
So if my voice is like shakingaround, it's because the dog is
literally shaking my chair andmoving me all over the place.
(00:59):
About ADHD and creativity,because, as my friend Anne who
in our house is known as friendAnne says, adhd is a superpower
and sometimes we all need alittle reminder about that.
So, before we do, I want toremind our listeners that if you
like your books, like you likeyour campfires nice, slow burn
(01:20):
you can get Ariella's books.
I like it.
You can get Ariella's books Ilike it for 20% off using promo
code ck and gk all one worduppercase on her website,
ariellamontecom, which is linkedin the show notes.
So let's go ahead and getstarted.
I'm gonna let you take overthis conversation because you're
the.
You are the actual creative.
That's how you employ yourself,so I'm just gonna, yeah, I'm
(01:45):
just gonna sit back and do mycrochet while you're talking
nice, nice.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So we've got a whole bunch of sources here.
They will be in the places thatsources live in the show notes
I pulled from a couple ofdifferent places attitude places
, attitude Magazine, scientificAmerica, scientific American
sorry, understoodorg.
And just our lives, ourexistence as ADHD people as we
(02:16):
are.
Yes, yeah, so to get started,caitlin, what comes to mind when
you think of creativity?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think I go to the default definition of like the
artist right.
However, as I've gotten older,I've come to learn that
creativity also involves problemsolving.
So just you know different waysof looking at a problem and how
to tackle it.
(02:45):
I think would also fall underthat category.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Exactly, yeah, and so when we think about creativity,
I think most of us will havethose two kind of related but
also opposing, yeah, ideas ordefinitions, um, and we're gonna
kind of talk about both of themtoday.
(03:11):
But to start, we need to talkabout the aspects of creative
cognition, which is basicallycreative thinking like you were
like the creative problemsolving and like this kind of
goes into what we do as creativepeople.
(03:32):
So there isn't a ton of researchon ADHD and creativity as they
kind of relate to each other,like there's a little bit but
there's not a whole bunch of it.
But there is a lot of researchon creativity and creative
thinking, okay, and kind of howthat works, and I, as y'all know
(03:54):
, am not any sort of brainscientist that's why this works,
because we, we are explainingit to you, as we hope someone
would explain it to us, right?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Plain language jargon-free, no doctor.
Just as it is.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
This is going to be very boiled down and hopefully,
if it tingles your hyperfocus,you turn it into a hyperfixation
and you can dive in more onyour own time.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's why the sources are in the show notes
and go Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So the three aspects of creative cognition are
divergent thinking, conceptualexpansion and overcoming
knowledge constraints.
Those sound like big words andthey do right, yeah actually
very simple concepts, great, andstuff that we, especially as
adhd people, do all the time.
(04:54):
Okay, um, because a little bitof research that there is on
adhd and creativity has shownthat these three aspects of
creative cognition are strengthsin people with ADHD.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, and it's not to say that, like, neurotypical,
people don't have these things.
This is a thing that, like, allpeople do, but people with ADHD
seem to this.
The little bit of research outthere shows that people with
ADHD seem to have an edge, andit seems to be that these are
strengths.
Okay, so divergent thinkingthis is the ability to think of
(05:36):
many ideas from a singlestarting point.
So in this very unscientific,very watered down example of
divergence in thinking, soyou're talking about birds with
your ADHD friends and 15 minuteslater you're discussing the new
movie with Chris Evans andPedro Pascal and you're like how
(05:57):
did we get here but?
if you right, and we all do it.
We're like how did we go frombirds to, you know, love
triangle movie, which I havethoughts on even though I didn't
see it, but that's for anotherepisode.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
There's a whole episode in there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
That's a whole nother episode.
But if you trace that'sactually a really good example
of the next one.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, anyway, circle back, circle back, the next one.
Okay, anyway, circle back,circle back, circle back it's
happening.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So if you trace the conversation you can see how one
thought did lead to another.
But you're kind of like, howdid we get here?
But if you actually sit thereand you're like, well, this
thought led to this, which ledto this why I have to tell four
different stories in relation toyour one story.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
um, because I make, and sometimes those connections
are really obscure and I findmyself doing it in my head and
and then the person I'm talkingto who is not an ADHD person
will be like, wait, what, howdoes that go with this?
And you're like, oh, becauseit's like six degrees of Kevin
Bacon, where I, like I, then Idid this and then I was talking
about this and then I got hereand that's why you can talk
(07:29):
about the office in relation toShakespearean, whatever, like
you know what I mean.
The connection is so random,but it does come from a place of
understanding what you weretalking about initially and and
where all those like synapseswent in my head at one time,
(07:50):
exactly, exactly, super fun.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
The next one is conceptual expansion.
So that's the ability to loosenthe boundaries of concepts,
which is a very science-y way ofsaying that you're going to
MacGyver something.
So when was the last time youMacGyvered something?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
This week when I was trying to stop my dog from
eating what's in the calendarbox.
I don't know why some dogs needto do that, but I had to rig up
something in order to make herstop or, at the very least, make
a loud noise or something.
So I would know she was inthere, because, as clean as I
(08:31):
keep those boxes, I can't stayon top of it all the time.
So, yeah, that's what it was.
So it was this week.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I had one person tell me once that they
didn't like cats because catswere dirty and they used litter
boxes.
And I'm like my dog eats thepoop out of what's in there.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, so right, like I like, I like.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I feel like they're both kind of equally gross,
disgusting animals yeah, I thinkI had an.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I have an injury on my hand and the doctor was like
from my dog?
And my doctor was like so, justso, you know, no matter how
much hydrogen peroxide or,frankly, bleach we put in there,
there will always be bacteriain that wound.
So that's why we don't stitchdog bites.
And I was like, oh great.
(09:22):
So I mean now I'm onantibiotics because of this.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So, like there's, dogs are gross too right, and
now we are not talking about thetopic circling back, circling
back, sir, circling, circlingback okay, I've, ever, I've ever
this week.
Okay, right, you mcgyveredsomething, so so say, you've got
like the like a paperclip, andthe primary use of a paperclip
(09:48):
is to hold individual pieces ofpaper together.
That's the concept of thepaperclip.
Conceptual expansion is whenyou use that paperclip to do
something like pop the SD cardout of your cell phone.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Oh, I thought you were going to talk about how
you're going to use a Clippyreference.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I was waiting for the Microsoft Word Clippy reference
, but yes, I see what you'resaying, so that is a good
example of the next one, whichis overcoming knowledge
constraints.
So, this is the ability toovercome recently presented
information.
So if we're using the paperclipexample, if I ask an ADHD-er
(10:31):
and a neurotypical person tocome up with a brand new way to
hold paper together, and then Igave them examples of tools that
they're already available, likepaperclips, staples and binder
clips, the neurotypical personis more likely to come up with
an invention that incorporatesaspects of the examples but the.
(10:54):
ADHD-er is more likely to comeup with an invention that is
completely new.
So the fact that you connectedpaperclip to clippyippy, which
has nothing to do with holdingpapers together, it has
everything to do with, likemicrosoft word is, is kind of an
example of that thinking, youknow I'm unmedicated today, so
(11:19):
it's gonna be a ride so the real, the real connections and and
all the things are coming outtoday.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So all right?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, that's pretty cool Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's all super interesting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So these are all like cognitive processes that we're
doing every day and they're justkind of like happening in the
backgrounds, you know, whilewe're talking about like
creative problem solving orworking on art.
All of these things are justkind of happening in the
(11:51):
background and those arestrengths that we have that come
.
Other creative strengths thatcome with ADHD is that wide lens
of attention that you know, theability to see the big picture
and how everything workstogether as a whole, and it can
(12:15):
be really overwhelming when wedo that, yeah, but the ability
to sort of see everything andall of like the moving parts, it
can lead to a lot of likecreativity, creative problem
solving and creative ideasthat's super interesting,
because I always feel like I, Imiss the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Like I, I really do feel that way because I think
all of the little details, thelogistics of something bog me
down and make me feel anxious,because I need to know how all
of the little pieces are goingto work.
But maybe that's not the ADHD,that's the anxiety that I also
take pharmaceuticals for.
(12:59):
But I see what you're sayingabout how, like, yes, okay, I
can, I can do those things.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, yeah and think about it as, like so say, you're
gonna sit down and do a project.
If you are planning the project, you have everything kind of in
front of you and you, like youcan kind of see the whole
picture and breaking down to getto the whole ability to kind of
(13:33):
see everything, and I don'tremember where I was going with
that- but also I'm just thinkingabout, like, how all the little
pieces matter in that bigpicture.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Maybe that's kind of what I fixate on, where it's
like I'm seeing, okay, well, ifwe're talking about, for example
, event signage, whereage, I cansee how, like, this piece needs
to look over here and this oneneeds to come to an order for
(14:24):
the signage to look cohesive andall of that stuff.
So that stuff does make sensein my head and the details
matter in that.
But yes, I can see what you'retalking about there.
That makes sense.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, and we got to remember, too, that a lot of
this stuff is going to be likeit's going to be impacted by the
environment that we're in andthat's kind of we're gonna you
know that we're gonna talk aboutlike in the next episode, but
yeah, so it might feel like, ohman, like I really suck at that,
like that is not a I would notconsider that a strength, but it
(14:58):
might be because of everythinglike the world in which we live,
like we're not able to tap intothose strengths as well as we
could have if we were in, like adifferent kind of environment.
Yeah, that makes sense.
You know like if the worldwasn't burning, you know like
maybe Then the event signagewouldn't overwhelm me.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I don't know.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Exactly, and.
But even our hyper focus can beconsidered a creative strength,
because we become consumed bythings that we enjoy, and so if
we find something creative thatwe do enjoy, we want to learn
more about it.
We want to practice more often,and so we do.
We want to learn more about it.
We want to practice more often,and so we do.
(15:41):
We start to get good at it,maybe not like it's not going to
be our career good, but we getto be good at it enough, or we
overcome a problem enough timesthat it gives us like a little
dopamine cookie, and so we domore and so like.
Eventually, you know we, westart to really hone those
(16:02):
skills, because it's a thingthat you know, that we really
enjoy doing and that we canhyper focus on it um and risk
taking, you know like sure, Imean all of these things can
have like a threshold, liketheir strengths until their
weakness.
But, like you know, that ideaof like sure, why not?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
let's see what happens, right when it comes to
creativity, like right, what's Imean?
We're obviously talking about.
We're not talking about likerisk taking in, like cliff
jumping.
We're talking about likeproblem solving and actual
artistic expression, like what'sthe harm in testing these two
colors if I mix them together?
Like why?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
not see what happens.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, that's very different, but yes, I see that
too.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'll do that.
Pottery is really great withthat, because you could have
something.
And then, like you put it inthe kiln and then it's like I
don't know what's going tohappen when it comes.
Like, what is it going to bewhen it comes out of the kiln?
You know, like if I didsomething wrong, like the whole
thing could explode, you know.
And so I'll just go and be like, oh, let's see what happens
(17:12):
when I do this.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And then it comes out of the kiln and it's like, oh,
this is actually prettyinteresting.
You know, the other piece ofthat is with with something like
that is okay, so your structuredidn't work while you were
building it.
So what's the worst thathappens?
You flatten it out and startover like there are.
You know, there are things likethat, where it's like the
creativity and the risk takingare completely part of the
process.
So I yeah, that makes a lot ofsense to me too.
Yeah, yeah, so that is, that'sthe strength of our creativity.
(17:46):
Those are, those are the.
That's one of the benefits ormultiple superpowers we have
within this umbrella of thecreativity superpower.
So next week, what are yousharing with?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
us.
So next week we'll get into thechallenges around creativity,
because you know, like withanything, with ADHD, like with
every up there's a down, and youknow everything's a strength
until it's a weakness, oreverything's a weakness until
it's a strength, and so we'llget into the challenges around
creativity and how to work withyour brain when, you know, gets
(18:21):
a little difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, well, make sure that you, if you're not already
subscribed to our show, makesure that you tap subscribe
right now so you don't miss thatepisode.
We'll be right back after aquick break.
Hey y'all, hey y'all.
(18:43):
Pov you find a diary exposingforbidden magic and the hot
museum caretaker's life dependson you burning it, roots and Ink
.
The debut novel by AriellaMonti is the fantasy romance for
rebels.
Use promo code CKANDGK to get20% off your copy at
AriellaMontecom.
Again, that's all capsC-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on
(19:06):
AriellaMontecom.
Get your copy for 20% off todayand scene.
(19:27):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You were talking about hyper fixations as a
strength I am dying to hear whatyour current one is right now.
Oh uh, well, before we startedrecording, I was hyper fixated
on organizing all my event crapyes it was very, it was very
likely that I was gonna text youand be like I'm gonna be 15
minutes late because, I wasorganizing listen, you gotta
(19:49):
ride that out a half hour, right?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, I, I, I saw a window.
I'm like let me put this stuffaway, and I was just hyper
fixated on getting everythingorganized so that I can store it
for a couple of weeks before mynext event.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So the other problem with that is the needing 15
minutes.
That's the time.
Blindness, that's what that's.
One of the dangers of thathyper fixation is that you
completely underestimate howlong that hyper fixation is
going to last, or the dopamineneed, right like you just don't.
Yeah, I gotcha, I don't knowthat this is a hyper fixation
for me, but I will say this ismy new favorite thing.
(20:35):
Uh, so we'll go with that fornow.
There is a product that I havediscovered called bite away.
No, I am not sponsored.
We've discussed this.
Please sponsor me.
I will happily take yoursponsoringness, folks.
Bite away is is the goat ofmosquito products.
(20:55):
Let me explain.
It's like a little thing thatlooks like a pen and it's about
the size of like a handsanitizer spray bottle.
It is small, okay, you can putit in your purse if you're going
out, whatever, and it hasbatteries.
You turn it on.
It powers on for three secondsor five, whichever one, doesn't
(21:18):
matter, but there's two settingson it and you put this ceramic
tip on the mosquito bite, likedirectly on top of it, when it's
itching or whether it's notdoesn't matter, because
sometimes they flare up and itchhours later, right, and it it
turned.
It gets hot like it's a ceramicplate.
So if you, if you're someonewho's ever used like ceramic
(21:38):
curling iron or straightener,you know these things conduct
heat and it zaps the top of yourmosquito bite, not like an
electrical thing, but it justgets hot and then it kills
whatever, that bacteria orwhatever it is that mosquitoes
leave on your skin in theirsaliva that makes you itch, on
(22:03):
your skin in their saliva thatmakes you itch.
It sounds way more complicatedbecause of the way that I
described it, but think of likea fingertip, a fingertip getting
really hot on your leg forthree seconds, that's it, that's
all it is, and then it doesn'titch at all.
And I have severe reactions tomosquito bites.
I am I don't know if I justreleased copious amounts of
carbon dioxide because they are.
(22:24):
If you are next to me outsideand you get bitten, you will not
get bitten if you're next to me, like I am just the magnet.
And now that I have the dog, Ihave to go in the backyard and
it's humid in Texas and themosquitoes are ridiculous.
And no matter how much youTexas and the mosquitoes are
ridiculous and no matter howmuch you spray, they still are
(22:46):
there.
So I have to have this pen onme at all times and I love this
thing.
As soon as I know the bite'sthere, I put the little bite
away, tip on there and it goesin three seconds and it kind of
hurts.
Not going to lie, it's a littlepainful, but it's only for
three seconds and it's totallyworth it because then I don't
itch anymore.
Completely, 100% worth it.
And all these people are likeit's hurting me.
That is no, it's not, it'shelping you.
(23:07):
Let it burn.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That is wild, it is the best.
That is crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It is.
You know those like.
There's that whole the bug bite.
It's literally called the bugbite thing.
Where you like, suck the venomor whatever it is yeah.
Yeah, no no, I thought thatworked.
I was wrong.
That does not work.
This works.
Okay, I also like lavenderhydrosol, which is a spray you
can get on Amazon.
(23:34):
You can make it yourself.
Just look it up and it doesfeel better, but it doesn't work
.
This works.
I have bites all over my bodyand they do not itch, and
usually I'm the person whoitches for several days after
these butt bites and I am notitching.
I already.
I'm so obsessed with this thingI literally carry it around
from room to room in the housejust in case I get bitten by a
(23:56):
mosquito that we accidentallylet in or I feel a bite later
after I let the dog out.
It's already on the website.
Go to ckngkpodcastcom and clickon resources and then go to our
favorite finds and it's adirect link to it right there.
I'm again, not sponsored.
I just firmly believe in thisproduct.
If you are somebody who itchesfrom mosquito bites all summer
(24:17):
long, like I do this islife-changing information for so
many.
This is why I would consider ita hyperfixation.
This is life-changinginformation that I'm giving you,
and I'm telling literallyeveryone that I know that you
need this product in your life.
So yeah by the way best thingever it's been.
People like it's expensive, thebatteries run out.
They gave you batteries.
(24:37):
What product ever gives youbatteries these days?
Shut up, go buy some Amazonbatteries.
They're relatively.
They come with my like orderevery month.
Who cares?
Just kind of batteries run outafter too many uses.
It would be nice withrechargeable yeah, it would, but
you know what it's not.
So just put the batteries in,shut up and put it on your leg.
(24:59):
You're fine, feels great.
I'm literally standing therelike it burns.
It burns so much better All thetime, so dumb, but I don't care
.
Go get this thing if you itchfrom mosquito bites, by the way,
made in Germany.
(25:20):
I'm not even joking.
Sometimes those Germans makegood stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Alright, I firmly believe in this product.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But let me shut up.
What did we get done this week?
The same thing that my samething of my hyper fixation is
also organizing my vent.
Crap.
Nice, I finally got that doneso.
Now my craft table is free andI can Be creative.
Now I can be creative.
Now I can sew stuff and or dosome pottery.
(26:04):
I have a couple of things thatneed to be glazed, so now I have
a table that I can do someglazing on.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, les, the word glazed, well, obviously I think
of a donut.
But I was watching an episodeof the Valley on Bravo Because
if you've listened to the showbefore at all, you probably know
that I'm a big Bravo person andthis girl on the show was like,
before I I go to bed, I looklike a glazed donut.
(26:35):
There's so much lotion.
I was like, yes, I do that too,got like my lotion, then I put
on like my hydro mask thing andthen I put like Vaseline over it
.
I really do look like a glazeddonut sometimes, but but that's
whenever I hear glaze, that'swhere I go with it.
Now I look like a glazed donutwhen I go to sleep.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that Ifinally got this done, because
(26:57):
this is a new item, but for ouranniversary, which
coincidentally is also on myson's birthday, we were having a
hard time.
We like to do like theme gifts.
It's like you know, 13 yearsand the traditional item is lace
or whatever.
So we were looking for stufflike that and I was like do not
get me anything lace, becauseyou know where men's minds go
(27:21):
when they hear lace.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh yeah, I was just going to say.
I was like do not.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
This is not the time for that, but we were talking
about getting a new likecredenza TV stand thing, our TV
is mounted, but there was theone that we had was like one.
It was too low for the space.
So there's like this big whitespace and you could see all the
cords behind it, becausewhatever genius made this did
(27:43):
not put a back panel on it.
So you can see all the bunchesof cords and stuff and I hate it
.
I hate it so much and I'vehated it for years, because we
could have bundled the cords andwe could have done a thing, but
but that never got done and I'mnot blaming anyone, but I'm not
in charge of the technologyover there so it's got to be
someone else's fault um, but Iwas like, for my anniversary you
(28:05):
can get me a new credenza thingand it can be a two-fold gift
one I get a project because Iget to build something which I
like to do and two I never haveto see the courts ever again
yeahthat's just the gift that keeps
on giving.
So I built that thing.
It's pretty big, it's.
(28:26):
It's pretty big.
It's like six feet long andprobably about three feet high,
or so it's, it's, it's large, ohwow.
It has all these shelves andit's got barn doors that like
slide across, so there's themiddle section and then you can
open the barn doors and I builtthat sucker in like four hours,
man.
Nice.
I'm so proud of myself becausethat's what happened.
(28:47):
Like I got fixated on all thiscrap in my living room.
I don't like it and I want toget the project done.
So that's my hyper fixation winand the task I got done once I
built that thing.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
It's super cute too, I really like nice, I want to
see pictures.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, I'll send you, yeah, okay, so this has been
adhd in real time or, you know,recorded time with kaylin and
ariela.
So, as jenny would say, makegood choices, uh, go forth and
(29:23):
make all the things.
Just if you're gonna make stufffrom a new hyper fixation, just
go get those supplies from abuy nothing group.
Okay, right, you know?
Yeah, on and use it on yourcraft table and I love you.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I mean it bad about the mess, diverging tangents and
how the office connects toshakespeare.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, bye wow.
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