December 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever gotten a "dress casual" invite and thought "what does that even MEAN?" Or worse—shown up to a "festive" party in sequins only to realize everyone else interpreted it as ugly sweaters? Same. Holiday dress codes are confusing, ambiguous, and honestly? Half the time hosts don't even know what they're asking for. We're decoding every dress code from casual to white tie so you never have to panic-Google "what to wear" again.
Stop stressing about what to wear to holiday parties—hit subscribe and get the breakdown of every dress code plus scripts to ask hosts when you're confused (because "festive" means nothing).
Note: This is a re-aired episode with timeless advice about dress codes. Whether you're going to holiday parties, weddings, or any formal event, these guidelines still apply.
- Subscribe today and get our free dress code cheat sheet as a thank you!
- Click here for this episode’s blog post with links to sources and even more content.
—
Who Should Listen
This episode is for anyone who's ever shown up overdressed, underdressed, or just plain confused about what "dressy casual" means, and hosts who want to stop torturing their guests with ambiguous dress codes.
—
What You Get In This Episode
- What casual, dressy casual, business, cocktail, semi-formal, black tie optional, black tie, and white tie actually mean (with real examples), and how fabrics, straps, and structure change formality levels
- Quick rules for shoes, socks, and seasonal accessories that matter
- Why "festive" and "holiday" dress codes are traps—and what to do about them
- Simple scripts to ask the host about expectations without feeling awkward
- The party-hopping rule
- PLUS! Tips for hosts: how to write clear invitations with examples and tone-setting language
—
Bios
Caitlin brings her signature blend of humor and practical advice to help overwhelmed moms navigate the challenges of adulting—including not showing up to parties in the wrong outfit. With Jenny, who loves sequins, understands formality levels, and won't judge you for asking "wait, what does tropical black tie mean?"
—
Sources & Mentions
- Decoding Invitation Dress Codes | By Meg Hemphill for HuffPost Life
- Attire Guide: Dress Codes from Casual to White Tie Formal | Emily Post
The best support is a rating and a share.
Love,
CK & GK
View our website at ckandgkpodcast.com. Find us on social media @ckandgkpodcast on
- Instagram
- Facebook
- TikTok
Thanks, y'all!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin K (00:56):
It's Tuesday.
Jenny GK (00:59):
Yeah.
Uh, and we are, are we inDecember?
Is it Tuesday?
December.
Oh gosh.
Okay.
Well, we are really glad you'reoh goodness.
Sorry.
We're so glad you're here.
Today we are decoding the dresscode as in what to wear to all
of these holiday parties thatmay or may not be coming up for
(01:20):
you.
If you've got FOMO, you needthis episode.
If you have Jomo, you just putyour sweatpants on and keep on
trucking.
There you go.
Listen for the fun of it.
There you go.
But first, with me as always isCaitlin.
The very definition of tropicalblack tie casual.
Caitlin K (01:39):
Uh, thanks.
I can't wait to find out whatthat means in this episode.
That's Jenny, my fantasticallyprecious party elf.
Love it.
I made that one up myself.
Oh, you did a great job.
Jenny GK (01:53):
Uh, thank you.
Being a party elf.
Mm-hmm.
Um, kidnight just watched PolarExpress last night.
I forgot how creepy that movieis.
It is the animation is creepy.
Right.
The animation is creepy.
Caitlin K (02:07):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (02:07):
It also always the kind of thing that are gonna
haunt me in my dreams.
Caitlin K (02:11):
It has always freaked me out.
Yeah.
Did you see the meme where thelittle girl in that movie, that
beautiful, precious little girl,uh, they put her next to Drake
with his new hair style.
Oh, I cackled when I saw that.
He looks just like her.
(02:31):
Why would he do that to hishair?
That's funny.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I've got someshout-outs for today.
I want to shove it.
So there are, did you know?
You knew, but listener, dearlistener, that you don't just
have to subscribe to our show onyour favorite listening
platform.
You can also subscribe to ouremail list.
And when you do that, I giveyou early access to episodes.
(02:56):
As in, you get to listenbecause the rest of the world
before the rest of the world,because I put it in a place
where you get to see it.
So you can subscribe to ouremail list so you never miss an
episode at the link in our shownotes, or you can just go to our
website.
There's a form on our homepage,and just let us know that you
want to be a part of it, andI'll send you an email when it
(03:17):
matters.
I won't send you emails if itdoesn't matter, right?
Because who needs that?
Right?
So thanks to everyone who issubscribing.
Our email list is growing andit's getting very exciting, and
our website traffic is upbecause you guys are so amazing
supporting our show.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Jenny GK (03:36):
Okay, now it's time for us to talk about holiday
parties.
Oh dear.
Well, or parties in general,weddings.
Okay.
Anytime that you get aninvitation with a dress code on
it.
Also, side note, I should saythat when I asked Caitlin, hey,
do you want to do a show ondress codes?
She was like, and thought I wastalking about school dress
(03:58):
code.
I was like, you tell me you'rea teacher without telling me
you're a teacher.
And then what did I tell youafter that?
You can take the teacher out ofthe school, but you cannot take
the school out of the teacher.
Caitlin K (04:07):
100%.
And I have, I know that as ateacher, I was tasked with
enforcing dress code.
However, my opinion is thatdress codes are inherently
sexist and I don't like them.
So I was like, can we pleasenot do this episode?
Jenny GK (04:22):
Well, and this is why when I stepped into this role in
administration, I changed thelanguage and said, it's not a
dress code, it's a uniform.
And uni means one.
There's one way to wear it.
This is not about who can andwho can't.
This isn't about what we'rechoosing.
It's this is the uniform andthis is how you wear it.
Yep.
And it made it a whole loteasier.
Caitlin K (04:41):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (04:43):
Plus, like, if you get out of the car with this skirt
that short, clearly yourfamily's fine with it.
So I'm not gonna spend a lot ofenergy on it.
Caitlin K (04:49):
Exactly.
Like if your dad says it'sokay, then why am I gonna make a
mistake?
It's not my job to dress you.
Like, I dress myself and I makesure my kid has clothes.
Jenny GK (05:00):
And in the in the case of the boys, like if mom says
it's okay for your underwear tostick out of your pants, I'm
gonna be like, hey, I reallydon't want to see your boxers,
and then I'm gonna leave it atthat.
Speaker (05:08):
Right.
Like the end.
Anyway.
You got out of the car likethat.
Jenny GK (05:11):
It's fine.
Right.
Okay.
Not our job.
Anyway, so you get aninvitation and it has a dress
code on it.
Today we're gonna kind ofdissect each one of those and
talk about what you can wear toan event based on the dress
code.
Okay.
But before we do any of that, Iwant to say that this whole
episode is moot.
Because what you can reallyjust do is talk to the host and
(05:35):
say, I just want to check in onthe dress code.
I was thinking of wearingda-da-da-da.
What are other people wearing?
Oh.
And if you're gonna go to morethan one event in a day, if you
are party hopping, just dressfor the fancier one.
Because you can always tellpeople, like, oh, I have another
event after this.
No, you can also just dressfancy and lie and say you have
(05:57):
another event after this.
That does two things.
Number one, helps you uh withyour dress code.
Oh, yeah, I'm overdressedbecause I have something else.
Um, and secondly, it gives youan out.
Oh, I have to go, I haveanother event at nine o'clock.
Sorry guys.
Caitlin K (06:08):
And you can Irish could buy that mess.
Jenny GK (06:10):
Yeah.
Um, the event is me watching amovie on the couch, but hey,
nobody knows.
It's a fancy movie.
Okay.
So I tried to organize this inorder of most casual to most
fancy.
Okay.
Um, the information comes fromtwo different websites.
(06:31):
Um, one is an article calledDecoding Invitation Dress Codes
from the Huffington Post.
And the other one is calledDress Codes from Casual to White
Tie from Emily Post.
So we're just Emily Post.
Speaker (06:45):
Uh-huh.
Jenny GK (06:47):
So casual is the first one.
If you see the word casual, weare talking about informal,
comfortable, yet clean andprofessional clothing.
Okay.
I made this mistake when I wasyoung.
Caitlin K (06:59):
Wearing dirty clothes to people's parties?
Jenny GK (07:01):
No, someone told me this event is very casual.
And so I came in what iscollege casual, jeans and a
t-shirt, and realized, oh,that's not actually what casual
means.
And I felt very uncomfortablefor the entirety of the event.
If you are attending an eventwhere someone says it is casual,
you can, as a woman, wearsomething like a sundress or a
(07:26):
skirt, um, nice jeans, or somekind of chino, khaki pants.
And depending on the event andthe location, you could get away
with dressier shorts.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Okay.
Jenny GK (07:40):
Um, a solid color tee style shirt, a polo shirt, um a
casual button-down blouse, thoseare all okay for casual.
Caitlin K (07:50):
What about like a nicer tank, like a tank top or
something?
If it's like nothing.
Jenny GK (07:55):
I think if um, and later on, I was I'm gonna say to
hosts, like, hey, tell us wherethe event is and what's
happening.
If you're going to a backyardbarbecue in the middle of August
in Texas, a tank top would beappropriate.
Um, however, if you are goingto a casual wedding, I would say
cover your shoulders.
Caitlin K (08:15):
Interesting.
Jenny GK (08:16):
Okay.
Um, for men in a casual event,you're looking for again, chino,
khaki kind of pants or umgood-looking jeans.
Okay, so these are not thejeans that you mowed the grass
in this morning.
Um, they should be clean, theyshould have no holes, um, maybe
some structure.
Okay.
If the jeans are more than fiveyears old, they probably
(08:36):
shouldn't be going to a quoteunquote casual event because
they have lost some of theirshape.
Interesting.
Okay.
Um, now, if these are like yourgood jeans and they're five
years old and they stay in thecloset, whatever, whatever,
that's fine.
But you know what I'm saying.
Like if these are your everydayjeans, they might not meet the
need of this event.
Um, depending on the climateand where the event is located,
(09:04):
shorts could be okay.
But again, these need to be alittle bit dressier.
Maybe they're ironed.
Perhaps.
Um you can wear again a solidcolor shirt, um, a polo, a
T-style shirt and without adesign.
Um, but really what's best is ashirt with buttons and a
(09:28):
collar.
And for men, the shoe choicecould be sandals, could be
sneakers, could be loafers,depending on what kind of pant
you're wearing.
If you are wearing sandals andthey happen to have flip and
flop in the name, they should beleather or of a similar
(09:49):
material.
They should not be plastic.
Just saying.
Caitlin's dying over here.
Caitlin K (10:01):
I'm dying because I'm like picturing those like old
navy flip-flops and for a dollaror whatever.
Jenny GK (10:07):
The 99 cent multicolored.
We would buy them and then wewould um tie strips of fabric to
make them look like pom-poms onour feet.
That was like a whole craft.
It was a very popular thing inmy school.
And then that one of my well,that fabric would get all gross
and dirty, so you could wearthem like three times.
Caitlin K (10:24):
Yeah, I remember like some people buying those and
having them at weddings, so likegirls could dance without
having to have hard, like awfulshoes on.
Jenny GK (10:33):
I remember the first time I went to a wedding that
had sandals in the bathroom.
I was like, man, this is sofancy.
Caitlin K (10:37):
Yeah, this is really nice.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, they just spentlike, you know, 15 bucks on some
whatever.
But yeah, okay, that's that allseems interesting.
I'm surprised that a casualevent requires a button-down
shirt, but I guess a polo couldbe like that makes sense.
Jenny GK (10:52):
And again, gentlemen can totally get away with a
solid color tee if it is wellkept.
Caitlin K (11:02):
Yeah, I'm and I'm just thinking of what like guys,
the the line between casual andnot casual, like it's so easy
for them to like quote, dress upfor anything.
Whereas women have like likethe reason that there's 30
categories of dress code isbecause women have 30 categories
of clothing, right?
It's guys have like four.
So for them, it's easy, justslap on a polo and some nice
(11:26):
khaki shorts and you're good togo.
Jenny GK (11:27):
I'm thinking, whereas for if you have a plaid J.
Crew uh button up and a pair ofkhakis, you fit into most of
these categories.
Caitlin K (11:34):
Right.
You can wear that to literallyanything, and the only thing you
need to add on is a blazer fora wedding.
Like you're good.
Like, whatever.
Okay.
Anyway, let's go on to the nextone.
Jenny GK (11:42):
Okay, so the next one is dressy casual.
Caitlin K (11:44):
And this is where I lose my mind.
Jenny GK (11:47):
Okay, so this is like think about if you are wearing
working uh work clothes to anetworking event, you're meeting
people for the first time, butyou are not interviewing.
Okay, okay.
Um, this could also be whatpeople would have called Sunday
best.
Oh.
This is dress to impress.
(12:09):
Okay.
So um for women, a skirt or adressy top, a dressy pants
outfit, nice jeans and a cutetop, right?
That's everybody's favoriteoutfit.
I'm gonna wear jeans and a cutetop.
Um, or a dress that um is notstrapless or does not have
spaghetti straps.
Caitlin K (12:30):
Could it have like thicker, like a thicker strip is
probably okay?
Yeah, all right.
Jenny GK (12:33):
Totally fine.
Okay.
For men.
Like we said, just wearclothes.
No, um some kind of uh Chinostyle pant.
It should probably be ironed.
And depending on the weather,either a dress shirt or a polo
(12:55):
with the open collar, ties notnecessary.
Yeah, no, you can throw on asport coat if the weather calls
for it.
Okay.
All right.
Next is business.
Now, some people might callthis business formal.
This is different than businesscasual.
You can think of businesscasual as dressy casual.
Yes.
Business is you are going to agrown-up job interview.
Caitlin K (13:19):
Okay.
Jenny GK (13:20):
You're wearing a suit.
Caitlin K (13:22):
Yes.
Jenny GK (13:22):
Okay.
Women or men suit.
Now, um, depending on theindustry, some women
interchangeable with a suitwould be a structured dress.
I like to think of what would anews anchor wear.
Huh.
Okay.
(13:42):
So um that's to me when I'mdefining business, like would I
report at 5 p.m.
on this?
Okay.
The next one is semi-formal orcocktail.
These are the same thing, butthey are um they're used
interchangeably, but a lot ofpeople don't know that they are
(14:03):
the same thing.
Okay.
So um, if the event is after 6p.m.
And when I was growing up afterfive, we used to even call it
like an after five dress, um,then you're gonna lean in the
fancier category.
But at a semi-formal or acocktail event, you're doing a
little black dress.
Okay.
(14:23):
This is a shorter cocktaildress.
It could be a long skirt, butit should be of a fabric that's
a little less formal.
So if you're gonna wear a longsatin skirt, you should probably
wear a more casual top with it.
Caitlin K (14:40):
Like a sweater, a nice oversized sweater and a and
a fancy, like a cute skirt likethat is such a great look.
I love that look, especiallyfor this time of year.
Yeah.
It's great.
Jenny GK (14:49):
You can also wear like dressy separates, um, a pants,
uh, really cool jumpsuit wouldbe cool.
Yeah, but for the most part, ifyou see semi-formal, pull out
the cocktail dress.
Yeah.
If you've got an LBD that youlove, this is the time to put it
to use.
Caitlin K (15:04):
Well, and I'm just thinking, like, if I'm trying
for myself, if I'm trying todifferentiate between
semi-formal and cocktail, eventhough I don't need to, I'm
almost thinking cocktail ishappy hour sort of attire,
whereas semi-formal is thatafter six that you're talking
about.
That's the way I am putting ittogether in my head.
Jenny GK (15:20):
Okay.
In my case, there's sequins.
Caitlin K (15:24):
Yes, yes, there are.
Jenny GK (15:26):
But also, there might be sequence in a casual outfit.
So I don't know if that's fair.
Okay.
For men, for a semi-formal or acocktail event, you are wearing
a full suit and tie.
Okay.
You could wear a vest if youwanted to.
The suit should be dark.
It could be charcoal, could benavy, could be black.
A lot of times, men like youchoose not to wear a black suit
(15:48):
unless it's a business event ora funeral.
So um go with a darker gray ora navy.
Always looks good.
You're gonna be wanting to wearuh uh dress shoes and socks
that match your what pants.
Caitlin K (16:09):
Mmm, I was gonna say socks that match your
personality.
Jenny GK (16:13):
Personality is great.
That this is the perfect timeto wear socks that match your
personality.
Caitlin K (16:17):
Because this is where, like, so my dad dresses
business formal for work everyday, but his socks are always
where he shows a littlepersonality.
No, that's amazing.
Jenny GK (16:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Also, a fun tie would be okayfor this.
Depending on the event.
Yeah, if you are attending as aplus one, let's not wear the
fun tie.
Caitlin K (16:35):
No, you can save it for the socks.
Yeah, it could be a goodconversation.
Jenny GK (16:39):
But uh funny socks are always great.
That that's a perfect time forthis.
Okay, exactly.
So the next level is black tieoptional.
But when someone says black tieoptional, they are hoping that
you will sew up in a tux.
Caitlin K (16:51):
Right.
And they're giving you blacktie optional, as in like if you
don't have a tuxedo, you don'thave to go get a tuxedo, but I'm
gonna wear a tuxedo.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay, got it.
Jenny GK (17:02):
So you're looking for women, a floor-length evening
gown or a very dressy cocktaildress.
If you're gonna go little blackdress, um, you want to make
sure that you are in dressyshoes and a dressy handbag to go
along with it.
If you are choosing to dodressy separates or a jumpsuit,
(17:23):
make sure that it is elevated tothe level of cocktail dress or
evening gown.
Um, I had one that wasfabulous.
It was black and embroidered onthe top and very, very dressy.
Definitely to the level of anevening gown.
But this is not the time foryou to break out the denim
jumpsuit.
Nope.
(17:44):
No.
Okay.
Um, for men, again, they arerequesting that you wear a
tuxedo.
That's what black tie optionalmeans.
It says, like, hey, likeCaitlin said, if you don't have
one, you don't have to get one,but like we're kind of hoping
you will.
Yeah.
If you decide not to go tux,we're looking for a dark suit
and a white shirt, um, a veryconservative, neutral tie, and
(18:05):
then leather shoes and darksocks.
So again, this is like I don'thave a tux, but I'm dressing as
closely to it as possible.
Caitlin K (18:11):
There you go.
That's a great way to put it.
Jenny GK (18:14):
Okay.
So the next one is a littleambiguous and can be used
poorly.
Uh-oh.
So if you're a host, listen.
Okay.
The next one is holiday orfestive.
Ooh.
This is ambiguous.
Nobody knows what this means.
(18:34):
No.
If you adhere to the Emily Postrules about holiday or festive,
it's a cocktail dress.
Yeah.
It's an it's a little blackdress, it's a sport coat with
maybe a fun festive tie, butit's leaning more into the
semi-formal range.
But you need to check with thehost because they might be
(18:57):
thinking it's ugly sweater.
Gosh.
unknown (19:01):
Okay.
Jenny GK (19:03):
So when someone puts a festive or holiday as the dress
and they don't use anothermodifier like holiday casual.
Holiday sweater.
Yes.
Or funny festive.
Like you need to check with thehost.
It's totally fine.
Because they might be thinkingNew Year's Eve Gala and you show
(19:27):
up in uh Rudolph that lightsup.
Caitlin K (19:33):
Oh, I'm dying of embarrassment in this
hypothetical situation.
Oi, okay.
All right.
Jenny GK (19:39):
So the next one is black tie.
This is more formal thanbusiness.
It is the most common formaldress code for events like
weddings, prompts.
Is it really the theme of it?
Okay.
It is the most common becauseit is easily defined.
That makes sense.
Men are wearing a tux.
Yes.
They are wearing a white shirtand there is a black bow tie.
(20:05):
If you have a bow tie that fitsthe theme of the event and it
goes with your personality, muchlike the socks, you can get
away with a not black bow tie inthis situation.
Like a Rudolph one.
Right.
For women, you're wearing afloor-length gown or a cocktail
dress that is the dressiest oneyou own.
(20:25):
Yeah.
Caitlin K (20:26):
Okay.
Jenny GK (20:27):
Okay.
Really, most of the time, whensomeone sets black tie as a
formal event, they are expectingwomen to wear dresses that go
to the floor.
Caitlin K (20:38):
Okay.
Good to know.
Jenny GK (20:40):
Yeah.
Um, you do not need to weargloves to a black tie event.
Ew.
And if you happen to be at ablack tie event in the tropics
or on a cruise, you can get awaywith.
With a white jacket instead ofa black one.
For men, right?
Or no?
For women.
For men.
(21:00):
For men.
Let me tell you this.
This is my own personal opinionabout white jacket talks.
You look like a cateringwaiter.
Caitlin K (21:09):
It also like it feels a little like wannabe Dean
Martin.
Right?
Like, okay, rat pack, calmdown.
You'll never be as cool asSammy Davis.
So just like chilling.
Right, right.
Put on your blackjack.
Put on your blackjack.
Now, it now, if that's yourthing, okay, great.
But like it does it, it does,you know, feel like maybe you
(21:33):
might match the catering staff.
So just be mindful of that.
Also, if you're having a blacktie event in the tropics, go
away.
Come on.
Go away.
Sorry.
That's just me being petty, butwhatever.
Jenny GK (21:45):
No.
But uh, and again, like somepeople, they might look great in
a white jacket, right?
Like you got this whole James,uh, no, um, yeah, James Bond
vibe, like whatever.
That's fine.
That's your thing.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, sure.
Jenny GK (21:55):
Uh, it is not mine.
I just feel like white jacketis just boat.
That's that's me being judgy.
It's totally fine.
Okay.
So the most dressy, the mostformal is white tie.
Caitlin K (22:12):
That's a side.
Jenny GK (22:13):
Also called full evening dress.
Caitlin K (22:16):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, then that then yeah, I'veheard of it.
Jenny GK (22:19):
My fair lady.
Caitlin K (22:22):
Yes.
Tiara gloves.
Yes.
The rain in Maine.
Got it.
Jenny GK (22:27):
Yes.
The idea here is the guests atthis event might be royal, but
they're definitely high caliber.
They're getting a high honor.
It is hoity toity.
Okay.
Okay.
White tie means you are wearinga tux.
(22:49):
Or you are wearing afloor-length evening gown.
There is no other option.
Okay.
You might even be wearing a tuxwith tails if you follow the
dress code properly.
Caitlin K (23:04):
Ooh, wow.
Okay.
No Texas tuxes either.
Jenny GK (23:07):
No.
Caitlin K (23:09):
Do you know what Texas Tux is, folks?
If you don't know, it's it's uhit's tails and jeans.
Jenny GK (23:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no.
No white tie says you'rewearing a white bow tie and a
white vest, and you're wearinggloves, men.
Ooh.
Yeah.
And if you happen to be royalor like have a sash, put it on.
Right?
Like, uh.
If you happen to be royal girl,and you're listening to our
(23:37):
show.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, so women also optional,long upper length gloves.
Caitlin K (23:44):
Okay.
Jenny GK (23:44):
And this is where you take out the ground jewels.
Don't wear a plastic tiara.
Jenny, sorry.
I mean, no, you have to tell methis, right?
But um, costume jewelry that isdemure.
Very mindful.
Mindful, right.
Yes, is okay.
(24:05):
Okay.
But um full evening dress,white tie, like you know when
you're going to this event thatyou're going to see someone
fabulous.
Caitlin K (24:16):
Yes.
That'd be amazing.
Jenny GK (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Caitlin K (24:20):
Okay, so what if you're the one hosting this
event and you want to make surethat you're not being ambiguous?
Because this is like my this iswhere I would go wrong.
Jenny GK (24:28):
I like want to fix these things.
Okay.
Because we should not have tobe defining, the host should be
doing that for you.
That's very true.
So don't be cute with backyardformal or Parisian semi-casual
or tropical black tie casual.
Caitlin K (24:46):
Per okay, backyard formal means nothing.
Jenny GK (24:49):
Right.
Caitlin K (24:50):
Because I am a hot mess in my backyard.
Right.
So no literally nothing.
Jenny GK (24:55):
Provide examples if you have a specific theme.
Many years ago, John and I wentto an event that was Apre-Ski
formal.
But the event in the invitationhad pictures of outfits.
And it was, it was like you'reputting on your cocktail dress
(25:16):
and ski goggles, or you'rewearing or you're wearing
something with sequins and apuffer vest.
Like it was a themed event, andthey gave photographic examples
of what to wear.
Caitlin K (25:28):
Okay, that's fine.
I otherwise it's too cutesy forme.
Like, I just don't understand.
But also, you could, I think itmight be nice to just say what
you're wearing in the event.
Like, I'm wearing my uglyChristmas sweater, bring yours
too.
I mean something like that thatwould let people know kind of
what you're going for here.
Jenny GK (25:44):
The other thing that you can do is give some
specifics about the event thathelps people decide.
So if you're having asemi-formal event and it's
outside, state that.
Semi-formal garden party.
Because that means that insteadof me wearing a strapless
cocktail dress, I'm gonna put onsomething and a sweater because
(26:05):
I'm gonna be outside.
Caitlin K (26:06):
Yeah, like my yeah, my T-length dress and my sweater
that will go with it.
Okay, I gotcha.
Okay.
Jenny GK (26:12):
Use in uh use language in your invitation that
reflects the formality of theevent.
Okay?
Okay.
Join us for a family barbecueversus the honor of your
presence is requested.
Caitlin K (26:25):
Oh, yeah, that's awful.
Jenny GK (26:27):
Okay.
Let's bring in the new yeartogether versus please join us
as we elegantly ring in the newyear.
Caitlin K (26:35):
Elegantly was is my key there.
I know that I need to dress alittle bit more normally than or
formally than I would.
Yeah.
Jenny GK (26:40):
Let's ring in the new year together.
I'm coming in my sweatpants.
No, not really.
But like I know that this is anew one.
I'm coming in really casual.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I have to stand into myjeans and a sweater.
Exactly.
But please join us as weelegantly ring in the new year.
Like, okay, uh I'll put onheels.
That's fine.
Caitlin K (26:57):
Sure.
Jenny GK (26:57):
Yeah.
So the deal is all of this wasa waste of your time.
Because really, what you needto do when you have a question
about the dress code is takethat social risk and ask the
host.
And if you know someone elsegoing to the event who is
tighter with the host than youare, make them ask.
And say, hey, Caitlin, what areyou wearing?
Caitlin K (27:20):
What's the goal?
Yeah.
What's the goal for the party?
Are we supposed to?
Yeah, exactly.
Jenny GK (27:23):
If it is an event such as a fundraiser that happens
year after year, stalk thatstuff.
Get online and look and seewhat people wore last year.
Go find pictures for sure.
So anyway, you can do this.
Have lots of fun at theseparties.
Or I'm sorry that you have togo to a party.
Either way.
(27:44):
But uh I love it.
Let's take a break.
Yeah.
Caitlin K (27:49):
For links to resources mentioned in this
episode, head on over to ck andgkpodcast.com slash blog to find
everything you need.
And be sure to follow us onsocial media.
Head over to your favoritesocial media network and find us
at CKNGK Podcast.
And now back to the show.
Jenny GK (28:09):
Okay, so besides holiday dress code, tropical
black tie, formal, casual,ridiculous, uh business.
What are your obsessions rightnow?
Caitlin K (28:21):
Uh my son is finally old enough to enjoy watching
Harry Potter.
So we have been watching it asa family, like in small chunks,
right?
Like it's evening time orwhatever.
Um, but we're watching, we'rewatching the Harry Potter movies
together.
Like at night, he's like, Canwe watch it?
(28:42):
Can we watch it?
And he's getting really intoit.
Now, the hard part for me isthat he wants to ask.
Like, he's like me and he justneeds to know what's gonna
happen next.
And I'm like, just watch andlike but he so he has to ask
over and over again.
But it's really fun to have himbe into it, and he knows he has
the books.
My my brother, um, my son'suncle has gotten him those
(29:05):
really gorgeous, huge,illustrated uh versions of Harry
Potter, and he like hasn'tstarted reading them yet, but I
think him being interested inthe story is going to really
help him uh be excited about thebooks too.
So I'm pretty stoked.
Like he's he's really happy.
And the fun part actually isthat Bryce, my husband, uh, if
(29:29):
you're new to the show, that'smy husband's name.
Um, he has never seen reallyany of the movies.
It's not really like the thekind of fantastical is really
not his thing, like he justcan't get into it.
Um, but he started watchingwith the with us for the first
one, and he's like, Okay, theseare I get I get why people
really like them.
So that's been it's been reallyfun.
So I wouldn't say it's myobsession, but it is really fun
(29:51):
to sit together as a family andwatch these movies.
Have you guys been to the HarryPotter Forest?
No, but that came up on myInstagram feed, okay, and now I
want to take it.
Jenny GK (30:01):
Okay, yes.
Um, it looks pretty legit.
And it's at McKinney Ruffs,which was my first camp job.
Caitlin K (30:10):
Yeah, and isn't it like 45 minutes away from the
center of town?
Yeah, yeah.
And there's plenty of sounds.
Perfect.
See, I'm gonna try and make ithappen.
That would be a really like funthing to do, like a holiday
thing to do.
Right.
You know what I mean?
I just think it'd be great.
So I'm gonna look into that forhim.
Jenny GK (30:27):
Okay, so a couple weeks ago, um, I was really into
this book, Disappearing Spoon,and I'm still on a science kick.
So I am watching every video byLearning Curve on YouTube.
They're at Learning CurveScience, and um they like break
down plank everything.
What is plank time, what isplank distance, what is plank
mass, and I'm watching it, andmy husband is making fun of me
(30:49):
the entire time.
Caitlin K (30:51):
I don't know what plank means in that context.
Jenny GK (30:53):
Okay, so it's like a scientist that named the
smallest thing, and so thesmallest distance is a plank
distance, the smallest unit oftime is the time that it takes
light to travel that distance,and it's a plank time, and so
everything is measured.
The smallest unit that we haveis plank.
(31:14):
Now, I'm saying this, and I'msure there's a physicist out
there, probably not listening tome, that's like, no, it's not
the smallest, I'm sure there'ssomething else.
Okay, yeah.
From what I know from videos,yeah, and again, you know, I'm
like, I love extreme math, likebig numbers, small numbers.
Speaker (31:32):
This is great.
Extreme math.
Caitlin K (31:36):
Okay, I didn't realize how stupid it's if we
were naming the episodes off ofdumb things we say, this episode
would be called extreme math.
Jenny GK (31:46):
What okay, okay, okay.
I I I enjoy learning about verylarge numbers and very small
ones and extreme math.
Such a nerd.
Okay, well, speaking of nerds,let me give you my gem.
Okay.
Um, my kid, like really doesn'tunderstand what we do at all,
(32:09):
but he knows that we're nerdy.
So he recently had a fever, andwe went and got some pediolite
freezer pops.
Yeah, those are the jam.
Right?
They're great.
Caitlin K (32:21):
If you're not on board with those, you should
always have them in yourfreezer.
Jenny GK (32:25):
You can and you can make them, you could take
pediolite and just put it in apopsicle mold.
But um, we didn't have any, sowe picked up some more.
And John is giving him one andsays, Oh, kid, this is made by
the company I used to work for,which is Abbott, a medical
device company.
Caitlin K (32:45):
A medical device company.
Jenny GK (32:47):
They make pediolite, they make infamil, they make the
COVID tests, the Binax now.
Caitlin K (32:53):
Yeah, they make all kinds, yeah, they make all kinds
of things.
Jenny GK (32:56):
Now, John didn't work for that side of it, he worked
for the neurological side wherethey do brain and uh spine
stimulation, but still, samecompany.
They make medical things.
Right.
And Kit, really notunderstanding what we do for a
living at all, especially.
I mean, I guess he gets like, Iwork at a school, but because
he can, you know, reason.
Caitlin K (33:17):
Explainable.
Jenny GK (33:18):
But for John, he just knows he's like some kind of
math nerd, like he doesn'treally know what he does.
And so he says, Oh, Kit, theseare made by a company I used to
work for.
And Kit goes, Chase Bank?
Caitlin K (33:32):
I'm getting like, what is Chandler Bing's job
vibes from this?
Speaker (33:36):
Right, like John has never worked for Chase Bank.
Now not only is it like wrong,but it's like really wrong.
Right.
Jenny GK (33:43):
Like he's never these are popsicles for sick kids.
You think Chase Bank makesthese?
Caitlin K (33:49):
Baby boy.
I love him so much.
He's the sweetest.
He's so cute and so funny.
I love little kids.
No, honey.
No.
Well, we're we're we have asimilar kind of gym.
Where my son said somethingthat was kind of well-meaning.
It was actually verywell-meaning.
So here's what happened.
(34:10):
Um, we're we're in the throesof homework frustrations at our
house.
Uh, we work on math homeworkduring the week.
His teachers bless them, assignthe homework on Fridays, and
it's not due till the followingMonday.
So that means if you want towork on it over the weekend, you
can.
Or you can just work on itduring the week and then you
(34:30):
turn it in the following Monday.
So, not a big deal.
You get a lot of time to workon this.
Um, so we choose to do likehe's in third grade, no more
than 30 minutes of homework anight.
And that's my general rule forany grade level is 10 minutes of
homework a night by a gradelevel.
So if they're sixth graders,they should have 60 minutes of
homework a night.
(34:50):
And if it takes longer thanthat, then you need to have a
conversation.
Anyway, um at one point, my sonwas feeling very frustrated
with his math skills becausehe's the kind of person who he
thinks about the answer in akind of a roundabout way, but he
also can't always put down onpaper what he's doing.
(35:12):
Right.
Even though if you talk to him,it makes perfect sense what
he's doing.
Right.
Like you, you're like, oh, Isee you're just taking, instead
of making it $3.99, you'readding all the three dollars
together.
Yes.
And then you're adding all the99 cents together, and then
you're gonna put I I seeeverything, I see it all.
Jenny GK (35:27):
There's reason there.
He's just having a hard timedocumenting it.
Caitlin K (35:30):
Exactly.
And for that reason, he kind ofsort of has this moment where
he doesn't really feel verysmart.
And so we've had theseconversations of like, it's not
about being smart, like that youcan't express this.
It's you are you are a verybright kid who is very capable
of learning.
Your difficulty is staying calmwhen you feel frustrated, and
(35:51):
then telling us what you'rethinking so that we can put it
on the paper.
Right.
That's where the issue is.
And at one point, he saidsomething that triggered my
husband to say, like, you know,there are times where I don't
feel very smart, it's just how Ifeel.
Like, and I understand why youfeel frustrated.
(36:11):
And in response, Sam goes, Dad,I love you.
And I think you're smarter thanyou actually are.
And the intention wasbeautiful.
It was the most wellintentioned comment.
It just didn't come out the wayit needed to.
(36:31):
And Bryce Brussels' heart, he'slike, Thanks, buddy.
I was like, just bless you.
Like it was so sweet.
He really was just trying tosay, like, Danny, you're so
smart.
Like, I'm so proud of you.
And it just came out.
Speaker (36:46):
And it's one of those moments where you're like
actually biting your lip so thatyou don't laugh.
Because that's not the responsethat's appropriate.
But at the same time, I'mpretty sure, yeah.
Caitlin K (36:56):
I'm pretty sure what I actually did was I had my hand
on Bryce's back and I just likekind of clenched my hand into
his shirt.
I was like, oh my god.
Like, like just retra likepulled my claws in to look like
talons, and I was like holdingonto a shirt.
Like, if I don't if I let go,I'm gonna laugh.
I'm gonna laugh.
Because it was just so it wassuch a beautiful moment.
It just came out all wrong.
(37:16):
So funny.
Love it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Oh man.
Caitlin K (37:21):
All right.
Well, okay.
When you're learning aboutextreme math and you need to
know how to dress for an event,make your choices.
And you're probably smarterthan I think you are, too.
Bye.
It's Tuesday.
Jenny GK (00:59):
Yeah.
Uh, and we are, are we inDecember?
Is it Tuesday?
December.
Oh gosh.
Okay.
Well, we are really glad you'reoh goodness.
Sorry.
We're so glad you're here.
Today we are decoding the dresscode as in what to wear to all
of these holiday parties thatmay or may not be coming up for
(01:20):
you.
If you've got FOMO, you needthis episode.
If you have Jomo, you just putyour sweatpants on and keep on
trucking.
There you go.
Listen for the fun of it.
There you go.
But first, with me as always isCaitlin.
The very definition of tropicalblack tie casual.
Caitlin K (01:39):
Uh, thanks.
I can't wait to find out whatthat means in this episode.
That's Jenny, my fantasticallyprecious party elf.
Love it.
I made that one up myself.
Oh, you did a great job.
Jenny GK (01:53):
Uh, thank you.
Being a party elf.
Mm-hmm.
Um, kidnight just watched PolarExpress last night.
I forgot how creepy that movieis.
It is the animation is creepy.
Right.
The animation is creepy.
Caitlin K (02:07):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (02:07):
It also always the kind of thing that are gonna
haunt me in my dreams.
Caitlin K (02:11):
It has always freaked me out.
Yeah.
Did you see the meme where thelittle girl in that movie, that
beautiful, precious little girl,uh, they put her next to Drake
with his new hair style.
Oh, I cackled when I saw that.
He looks just like her.
(02:31):
Why would he do that to hishair?
That's funny.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I've got someshout-outs for today.
I want to shove it.
So there are, did you know?
You knew, but listener, dearlistener, that you don't just
have to subscribe to our show onyour favorite listening
platform.
You can also subscribe to ouremail list.
And when you do that, I giveyou early access to episodes.
(02:56):
As in, you get to listenbecause the rest of the world
before the rest of the world,because I put it in a place
where you get to see it.
So you can subscribe to ouremail list so you never miss an
episode at the link in our shownotes, or you can just go to our
website.
There's a form on our homepage,and just let us know that you
want to be a part of it, andI'll send you an email when it
(03:17):
matters.
I won't send you emails if itdoesn't matter, right?
Because who needs that?
Right?
So thanks to everyone who issubscribing.
Our email list is growing andit's getting very exciting, and
our website traffic is upbecause you guys are so amazing
supporting our show.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Jenny GK (03:36):
Okay, now it's time for us to talk about holiday
parties.
Oh dear.
Well, or parties in general,weddings.
Okay.
Anytime that you get aninvitation with a dress code on
it.
Also, side note, I should saythat when I asked Caitlin, hey,
do you want to do a show ondress codes?
She was like, and thought I wastalking about school dress
(03:58):
code.
I was like, you tell me you'rea teacher without telling me
you're a teacher.
And then what did I tell youafter that?
You can take the teacher out ofthe school, but you cannot take
the school out of the teacher.
Caitlin K (04:07):
100%.
And I have, I know that as ateacher, I was tasked with
enforcing dress code.
However, my opinion is thatdress codes are inherently
sexist and I don't like them.
So I was like, can we pleasenot do this episode?
Jenny GK (04:22):
Well, and this is why when I stepped into this role in
administration, I changed thelanguage and said, it's not a
dress code, it's a uniform.
And uni means one.
There's one way to wear it.
This is not about who can andwho can't.
This isn't about what we'rechoosing.
It's this is the uniform andthis is how you wear it.
Yep.
And it made it a whole loteasier.
Caitlin K (04:41):
Yeah.
Jenny GK (04:43):
Plus, like, if you get out of the car with this skirt
that short, clearly yourfamily's fine with it.
So I'm not gonna spend a lot ofenergy on it.
Caitlin K (04:49):
Exactly.
Like if your dad says it'sokay, then why am I gonna make a
mistake?
It's not my job to dress you.
Like, I dress myself and I makesure my kid has clothes.
Jenny GK (05:00):
And in the in the case of the boys, like if mom says
it's okay for your underwear tostick out of your pants, I'm
gonna be like, hey, I reallydon't want to see your boxers,
and then I'm gonna leave it atthat.
Speaker (05:08):
Right.
Like the end.
Anyway.
You got out of the car likethat.
Jenny GK (05:11):
It's fine.
Right.
Okay.
Not our job.
Anyway, so you get aninvitation and it has a dress
code on it.
Today we're gonna kind ofdissect each one of those and
talk about what you can wear toan event based on the dress
code.
Okay.
But before we do any of that, Iwant to say that this whole
episode is moot.
Because what you can reallyjust do is talk to the host and
(05:35):
say, I just want to check in onthe dress code.
I was thinking of wearingda-da-da-da.
What are other people wearing?
Oh.
And if you're gonna go to morethan one event in a day, if you
are party hopping, just dressfor the fancier one.
Because you can always tellpeople, like, oh, I have another
event after this.
No, you can also just dressfancy and lie and say you have
(05:57):
another event after this.
That does two things.
Number one, helps you uh withyour dress code.
Oh, yeah, I'm overdressedbecause I have something else.
Um, and secondly, it gives youan out.
Oh, I have to go, I haveanother event at nine o'clock.
Sorry guys.
Caitlin K (06:08):
And you can Irish could buy that mess.
Jenny GK (06:10):
Yeah.
Um, the event is me watching amovie on the couch, but hey,
nobody knows.
It's a fancy movie.
Okay.
So I tried to organize this inorder of most casual to most
fancy.
Okay.
Um, the information comes fromtwo different websites.
(06:31):
Um, one is an article calledDecoding Invitation Dress Codes
from the Huffington Post.
And the other one is calledDress Codes from Casual to White
Tie from Emily Post.
So we're just Emily Post.
Speaker (06:45):
Uh-huh.
Jenny GK (06:47):
So casual is the first one.
If you see the word casual, weare talking about informal,
comfortable, yet clean andprofessional clothing.
Okay.
I made this mistake when I wasyoung.
Caitlin K (06:59):
Wearing dirty clothes to people's parties?
Jenny GK (07:01):
No, someone told me this event is very casual.
And so I came in what iscollege casual, jeans and a
t-shirt, and realized, oh,that's not actually what casual
means.
And I felt very uncomfortablefor the entirety of the event.
If you are attending an eventwhere someone says it is casual,
you can, as a woman, wearsomething like a sundress or a
(07:26):
skirt, um, nice jeans, or somekind of chino, khaki pants.
And depending on the event andthe location, you could get away
with dressier shorts.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Okay.
Jenny GK (07:40):
Um, a solid color tee style shirt, a polo shirt, um a
casual button-down blouse, thoseare all okay for casual.
Caitlin K (07:50):
What about like a nicer tank, like a tank top or
something?
If it's like nothing.
Jenny GK (07:55):
I think if um, and later on, I was I'm gonna say to
hosts, like, hey, tell us wherethe event is and what's
happening.
If you're going to a backyardbarbecue in the middle of August
in Texas, a tank top would beappropriate.
Um, however, if you are goingto a casual wedding, I would say
cover your shoulders.
Caitlin K (08:15):
Interesting.
Jenny GK (08:16):
Okay.
Um, for men in a casual event,you're looking for again, chino,
khaki kind of pants or umgood-looking jeans.
Okay, so these are not thejeans that you mowed the grass
in this morning.
Um, they should be clean, theyshould have no holes, um, maybe
some structure.
Okay.
If the jeans are more than fiveyears old, they probably
(08:36):
shouldn't be going to a quoteunquote casual event because
they have lost some of theirshape.
Interesting.
Okay.
Um, now, if these are like yourgood jeans and they're five
years old and they stay in thecloset, whatever, whatever,
that's fine.
But you know what I'm saying.
Like if these are your everydayjeans, they might not meet the
need of this event.
Um, depending on the climateand where the event is located,
(09:04):
shorts could be okay.
But again, these need to be alittle bit dressier.
Maybe they're ironed.
Perhaps.
Um you can wear again a solidcolor shirt, um, a polo, a
T-style shirt and without adesign.
Um, but really what's best is ashirt with buttons and a
(09:28):
collar.
And for men, the shoe choicecould be sandals, could be
sneakers, could be loafers,depending on what kind of pant
you're wearing.
If you are wearing sandals andthey happen to have flip and
flop in the name, they should beleather or of a similar
(09:49):
material.
They should not be plastic.
Just saying.
Caitlin's dying over here.
Caitlin K (10:01):
I'm dying because I'm like picturing those like old
navy flip-flops and for a dollaror whatever.
Jenny GK (10:07):
The 99 cent multicolored.
We would buy them and then wewould um tie strips of fabric to
make them look like pom-poms onour feet.
That was like a whole craft.
It was a very popular thing inmy school.
And then that one of my well,that fabric would get all gross
and dirty, so you could wearthem like three times.
Caitlin K (10:24):
Yeah, I remember like some people buying those and
having them at weddings, so likegirls could dance without
having to have hard, like awfulshoes on.
Jenny GK (10:33):
I remember the first time I went to a wedding that
had sandals in the bathroom.
I was like, man, this is sofancy.
Caitlin K (10:37):
Yeah, this is really nice.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, they just spentlike, you know, 15 bucks on some
whatever.
But yeah, okay, that's that allseems interesting.
I'm surprised that a casualevent requires a button-down
shirt, but I guess a polo couldbe like that makes sense.
Jenny GK (10:52):
And again, gentlemen can totally get away with a
solid color tee if it is wellkept.
Caitlin K (11:02):
Yeah, I'm and I'm just thinking of what like guys,
the the line between casual andnot casual, like it's so easy
for them to like quote, dress upfor anything.
Whereas women have like likethe reason that there's 30
categories of dress code isbecause women have 30 categories
of clothing, right?
It's guys have like four.
So for them, it's easy, justslap on a polo and some nice
(11:26):
khaki shorts and you're good togo.
Jenny GK (11:27):
I'm thinking, whereas for if you have a plaid J.
Crew uh button up and a pair ofkhakis, you fit into most of
these categories.
Caitlin K (11:34):
Right.
You can wear that to literallyanything, and the only thing you
need to add on is a blazer fora wedding.
Like you're good.
Like, whatever.
Okay.
Anyway, let's go on to the nextone.
Jenny GK (11:42):
Okay, so the next one is dressy casual.
Caitlin K (11:44):
And this is where I lose my mind.
Jenny GK (11:47):
Okay, so this is like think about if you are wearing
working uh work clothes to anetworking event, you're meeting
people for the first time, butyou are not interviewing.
Okay, okay.
Um, this could also be whatpeople would have called Sunday
best.
Oh.
This is dress to impress.
(12:09):
Okay.
So um for women, a skirt or adressy top, a dressy pants
outfit, nice jeans and a cutetop, right?
That's everybody's favoriteoutfit.
I'm gonna wear jeans and a cutetop.
Um, or a dress that um is notstrapless or does not have
spaghetti straps.
Caitlin K (12:30):
Could it have like thicker, like a thicker strip is
probably okay?
Yeah, all right.
Jenny GK (12:33):
Totally fine.
Okay.
For men.
Like we said, just wearclothes.
No, um some kind of uh Chinostyle pant.
It should probably be ironed.
And depending on the weather,either a dress shirt or a polo
(12:55):
with the open collar, ties notnecessary.
Yeah, no, you can throw on asport coat if the weather calls
for it.
Okay.
All right.
Next is business.
Now, some people might callthis business formal.
This is different than businesscasual.
You can think of businesscasual as dressy casual.
Yes.
Business is you are going to agrown-up job interview.
Caitlin K (13:19):
Okay.
Jenny GK (13:20):
You're wearing a suit.
Caitlin K (13:22):
Yes.
Jenny GK (13:22):
Okay.
Women or men suit.
Now, um, depending on theindustry, some women
interchangeable with a suitwould be a structured dress.
I like to think of what would anews anchor wear.
Huh.
Okay.
(13:42):
So um that's to me when I'mdefining business, like would I
report at 5 p.m.
on this?
Okay.
The next one is semi-formal orcocktail.
These are the same thing, butthey are um they're used
interchangeably, but a lot ofpeople don't know that they are
(14:03):
the same thing.
Okay.
So um, if the event is after 6p.m.
And when I was growing up afterfive, we used to even call it
like an after five dress, um,then you're gonna lean in the
fancier category.
But at a semi-formal or acocktail event, you're doing a
little black dress.
Okay.
(14:23):
This is a shorter cocktaildress.
It could be a long skirt, butit should be of a fabric that's
a little less formal.
So if you're gonna wear a longsatin skirt, you should probably
wear a more casual top with it.
Caitlin K (14:40):
Like a sweater, a nice oversized sweater and a and
a fancy, like a cute skirt likethat is such a great look.
I love that look, especiallyfor this time of year.
Yeah.
It's great.
Jenny GK (14:49):
You can also wear like dressy separates, um, a pants,
uh, really cool jumpsuit wouldbe cool.
Yeah, but for the most part, ifyou see semi-formal, pull out
the cocktail dress.
Yeah.
If you've got an LBD that youlove, this is the time to put it
to use.
Caitlin K (15:04):
Well, and I'm just thinking, like, if I'm trying
for myself, if I'm trying todifferentiate between
semi-formal and cocktail, eventhough I don't need to, I'm
almost thinking cocktail ishappy hour sort of attire,
whereas semi-formal is thatafter six that you're talking
about.
That's the way I am putting ittogether in my head.
Jenny GK (15:20):
Okay.
In my case, there's sequins.
Caitlin K (15:24):
Yes, yes, there are.
Jenny GK (15:26):
But also, there might be sequence in a casual outfit.
So I don't know if that's fair.
Okay.
For men, for a semi-formal or acocktail event, you are wearing
a full suit and tie.
Okay.
You could wear a vest if youwanted to.
The suit should be dark.
It could be charcoal, could benavy, could be black.
A lot of times, men like youchoose not to wear a black suit
(15:48):
unless it's a business event ora funeral.
So um go with a darker gray ora navy.
Always looks good.
You're gonna be wanting to wearuh uh dress shoes and socks
that match your what pants.
Caitlin K (16:09):
Mmm, I was gonna say socks that match your
personality.
Jenny GK (16:13):
Personality is great.
That this is the perfect timeto wear socks that match your
personality.
Caitlin K (16:17):
Because this is where, like, so my dad dresses
business formal for work everyday, but his socks are always
where he shows a littlepersonality.
No, that's amazing.
Jenny GK (16:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Also, a fun tie would be okayfor this.
Depending on the event.
Yeah, if you are attending as aplus one, let's not wear the
fun tie.
Caitlin K (16:35):
No, you can save it for the socks.
Yeah, it could be a goodconversation.
Jenny GK (16:39):
But uh funny socks are always great.
That that's a perfect time forthis.
Okay, exactly.
So the next level is black tieoptional.
But when someone says black tieoptional, they are hoping that
you will sew up in a tux.
Caitlin K (16:51):
Right.
And they're giving you blacktie optional, as in like if you
don't have a tuxedo, you don'thave to go get a tuxedo, but I'm
gonna wear a tuxedo.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay, got it.
Jenny GK (17:02):
So you're looking for women, a floor-length evening
gown or a very dressy cocktaildress.
If you're gonna go little blackdress, um, you want to make
sure that you are in dressyshoes and a dressy handbag to go
along with it.
If you are choosing to dodressy separates or a jumpsuit,
(17:23):
make sure that it is elevated tothe level of cocktail dress or
evening gown.
Um, I had one that wasfabulous.
It was black and embroidered onthe top and very, very dressy.
Definitely to the level of anevening gown.
But this is not the time foryou to break out the denim
jumpsuit.
Nope.
(17:44):
No.
Okay.
Um, for men, again, they arerequesting that you wear a
tuxedo.
That's what black tie optionalmeans.
It says, like, hey, likeCaitlin said, if you don't have
one, you don't have to get one,but like we're kind of hoping
you will.
Yeah.
If you decide not to go tux,we're looking for a dark suit
and a white shirt, um, a veryconservative, neutral tie, and
(18:05):
then leather shoes and darksocks.
So again, this is like I don'thave a tux, but I'm dressing as
closely to it as possible.
Caitlin K (18:11):
There you go.
That's a great way to put it.
Jenny GK (18:14):
Okay.
So the next one is a littleambiguous and can be used
poorly.
Uh-oh.
So if you're a host, listen.
Okay.
The next one is holiday orfestive.
Ooh.
This is ambiguous.
Nobody knows what this means.
(18:34):
No.
If you adhere to the Emily Postrules about holiday or festive,
it's a cocktail dress.
Yeah.
It's an it's a little blackdress, it's a sport coat with
maybe a fun festive tie, butit's leaning more into the
semi-formal range.
But you need to check with thehost because they might be
(18:57):
thinking it's ugly sweater.
Gosh.
unknown (19:01):
Okay.
Jenny GK (19:03):
So when someone puts a festive or holiday as the dress
and they don't use anothermodifier like holiday casual.
Holiday sweater.
Yes.
Or funny festive.
Like you need to check with thehost.
It's totally fine.
Because they might be thinkingNew Year's Eve Gala and you show
(19:27):
up in uh Rudolph that lightsup.
Caitlin K (19:33):
Oh, I'm dying of embarrassment in this
hypothetical situation.
Oi, okay.
All right.
Jenny GK (19:39):
So the next one is black tie.
This is more formal thanbusiness.
It is the most common formaldress code for events like
weddings, prompts.
Is it really the theme of it?
Okay.
It is the most common becauseit is easily defined.
That makes sense.
Men are wearing a tux.
Yes.
They are wearing a white shirtand there is a black bow tie.
(20:05):
If you have a bow tie that fitsthe theme of the event and it
goes with your personality, muchlike the socks, you can get
away with a not black bow tie inthis situation.
Like a Rudolph one.
Right.
For women, you're wearing afloor-length gown or a cocktail
dress that is the dressiest oneyou own.
(20:25):
Yeah.
Caitlin K (20:26):
Okay.
Jenny GK (20:27):
Okay.
Really, most of the time, whensomeone sets black tie as a
formal event, they are expectingwomen to wear dresses that go
to the floor.
Caitlin K (20:38):
Okay.
Good to know.
Jenny GK (20:40):
Yeah.
Um, you do not need to weargloves to a black tie event.
Ew.
And if you happen to be at ablack tie event in the tropics
or on a cruise, you can get awaywith.
With a white jacket instead ofa black one.
For men, right?
Or no?
For women.
For men.
(21:00):
For men.
Let me tell you this.
This is my own personal opinionabout white jacket talks.
You look like a cateringwaiter.
Caitlin K (21:09):
It also like it feels a little like wannabe Dean
Martin.
Right?
Like, okay, rat pack, calmdown.
You'll never be as cool asSammy Davis.
So just like chilling.
Right, right.
Put on your blackjack.
Put on your blackjack.
Now, it now, if that's yourthing, okay, great.
But like it does it, it does,you know, feel like maybe you
(21:33):
might match the catering staff.
So just be mindful of that.
Also, if you're having a blacktie event in the tropics, go
away.
Come on.
Go away.
Sorry.
That's just me being petty, butwhatever.
Jenny GK (21:45):
No.
But uh, and again, like somepeople, they might look great in
a white jacket, right?
Like you got this whole James,uh, no, um, yeah, James Bond
vibe, like whatever.
That's fine.
That's your thing.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, sure.
Jenny GK (21:55):
Uh, it is not mine.
I just feel like white jacketis just boat.
That's that's me being judgy.
It's totally fine.
Okay.
So the most dressy, the mostformal is white tie.
Caitlin K (22:12):
That's a side.
Jenny GK (22:13):
Also called full evening dress.
Caitlin K (22:16):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, then that then yeah, I'veheard of it.
Jenny GK (22:19):
My fair lady.
Caitlin K (22:22):
Yes.
Tiara gloves.
Yes.
The rain in Maine.
Got it.
Jenny GK (22:27):
Yes.
The idea here is the guests atthis event might be royal, but
they're definitely high caliber.
They're getting a high honor.
It is hoity toity.
Okay.
Okay.
White tie means you are wearinga tux.
(22:49):
Or you are wearing afloor-length evening gown.
There is no other option.
Okay.
You might even be wearing a tuxwith tails if you follow the
dress code properly.
Caitlin K (23:04):
Ooh, wow.
Okay.
No Texas tuxes either.
Jenny GK (23:07):
No.
Caitlin K (23:09):
Do you know what Texas Tux is, folks?
If you don't know, it's it's uhit's tails and jeans.
Jenny GK (23:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no.
No white tie says you'rewearing a white bow tie and a
white vest, and you're wearinggloves, men.
Ooh.
Yeah.
And if you happen to be royalor like have a sash, put it on.
Right?
Like, uh.
If you happen to be royal girl,and you're listening to our
(23:37):
show.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, so women also optional,long upper length gloves.
Caitlin K (23:44):
Okay.
Jenny GK (23:44):
And this is where you take out the ground jewels.
Don't wear a plastic tiara.
Jenny, sorry.
I mean, no, you have to tell methis, right?
But um, costume jewelry that isdemure.
Very mindful.
Mindful, right.
Yes, is okay.
(24:05):
Okay.
But um full evening dress,white tie, like you know when
you're going to this event thatyou're going to see someone
fabulous.
Caitlin K (24:16):
Yes.
That'd be amazing.
Jenny GK (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Caitlin K (24:20):
Okay, so what if you're the one hosting this
event and you want to make surethat you're not being ambiguous?
Because this is like my this iswhere I would go wrong.
Jenny GK (24:28):
I like want to fix these things.
Okay.
Because we should not have tobe defining, the host should be
doing that for you.
That's very true.
So don't be cute with backyardformal or Parisian semi-casual
or tropical black tie casual.
Caitlin K (24:46):
Per okay, backyard formal means nothing.
Jenny GK (24:49):
Right.
Caitlin K (24:50):
Because I am a hot mess in my backyard.
Right.
So no literally nothing.
Jenny GK (24:55):
Provide examples if you have a specific theme.
Many years ago, John and I wentto an event that was Apre-Ski
formal.
But the event in the invitationhad pictures of outfits.
And it was, it was like you'reputting on your cocktail dress
(25:16):
and ski goggles, or you'rewearing or you're wearing
something with sequins and apuffer vest.
Like it was a themed event, andthey gave photographic examples
of what to wear.
Caitlin K (25:28):
Okay, that's fine.
I otherwise it's too cutesy forme.
Like, I just don't understand.
But also, you could, I think itmight be nice to just say what
you're wearing in the event.
Like, I'm wearing my uglyChristmas sweater, bring yours
too.
I mean something like that thatwould let people know kind of
what you're going for here.
Jenny GK (25:44):
The other thing that you can do is give some
specifics about the event thathelps people decide.
So if you're having asemi-formal event and it's
outside, state that.
Semi-formal garden party.
Because that means that insteadof me wearing a strapless
cocktail dress, I'm gonna put onsomething and a sweater because
(26:05):
I'm gonna be outside.
Caitlin K (26:06):
Yeah, like my yeah, my T-length dress and my sweater
that will go with it.
Okay, I gotcha.
Okay.
Jenny GK (26:12):
Use in uh use language in your invitation that
reflects the formality of theevent.
Okay?
Okay.
Join us for a family barbecueversus the honor of your
presence is requested.
Caitlin K (26:25):
Oh, yeah, that's awful.
Jenny GK (26:27):
Okay.
Let's bring in the new yeartogether versus please join us
as we elegantly ring in the newyear.
Caitlin K (26:35):
Elegantly was is my key there.
I know that I need to dress alittle bit more normally than or
formally than I would.
Yeah.
Jenny GK (26:40):
Let's ring in the new year together.
I'm coming in my sweatpants.
No, not really.
But like I know that this is anew one.
I'm coming in really casual.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I have to stand into myjeans and a sweater.
Exactly.
But please join us as weelegantly ring in the new year.
Like, okay, uh I'll put onheels.
That's fine.
Caitlin K (26:57):
Sure.
Jenny GK (26:57):
Yeah.
So the deal is all of this wasa waste of your time.
Because really, what you needto do when you have a question
about the dress code is takethat social risk and ask the
host.
And if you know someone elsegoing to the event who is
tighter with the host than youare, make them ask.
And say, hey, Caitlin, what areyou wearing?
Caitlin K (27:20):
What's the goal?
Yeah.
What's the goal for the party?
Are we supposed to?
Yeah, exactly.
Jenny GK (27:23):
If it is an event such as a fundraiser that happens
year after year, stalk thatstuff.
Get online and look and seewhat people wore last year.
Go find pictures for sure.
So anyway, you can do this.
Have lots of fun at theseparties.
Or I'm sorry that you have togo to a party.
Either way.
(27:44):
But uh I love it.
Let's take a break.
Yeah.
Caitlin K (27:49):
For links to resources mentioned in this
episode, head on over to ck andgkpodcast.com slash blog to find
everything you need.
And be sure to follow us onsocial media.
Head over to your favoritesocial media network and find us
at CKNGK Podcast.
And now back to the show.
Jenny GK (28:09):
Okay, so besides holiday dress code, tropical
black tie, formal, casual,ridiculous, uh business.
What are your obsessions rightnow?
Caitlin K (28:21):
Uh my son is finally old enough to enjoy watching
Harry Potter.
So we have been watching it asa family, like in small chunks,
right?
Like it's evening time orwhatever.
Um, but we're watching, we'rewatching the Harry Potter movies
together.
Like at night, he's like, Canwe watch it?
(28:42):
Can we watch it?
And he's getting really intoit.
Now, the hard part for me isthat he wants to ask.
Like, he's like me and he justneeds to know what's gonna
happen next.
And I'm like, just watch andlike but he so he has to ask
over and over again.
But it's really fun to have himbe into it, and he knows he has
the books.
My my brother, um, my son'suncle has gotten him those
(29:05):
really gorgeous, huge,illustrated uh versions of Harry
Potter, and he like hasn'tstarted reading them yet, but I
think him being interested inthe story is going to really
help him uh be excited about thebooks too.
So I'm pretty stoked.
Like he's he's really happy.
And the fun part actually isthat Bryce, my husband, uh, if
(29:29):
you're new to the show, that'smy husband's name.
Um, he has never seen reallyany of the movies.
It's not really like the thekind of fantastical is really
not his thing, like he justcan't get into it.
Um, but he started watchingwith the with us for the first
one, and he's like, Okay, theseare I get I get why people
really like them.
So that's been it's been reallyfun.
So I wouldn't say it's myobsession, but it is really fun
(29:51):
to sit together as a family andwatch these movies.
Have you guys been to the HarryPotter Forest?
No, but that came up on myInstagram feed, okay, and now I
want to take it.
Jenny GK (30:01):
Okay, yes.
Um, it looks pretty legit.
And it's at McKinney Ruffs,which was my first camp job.
Caitlin K (30:10):
Yeah, and isn't it like 45 minutes away from the
center of town?
Yeah, yeah.
And there's plenty of sounds.
Perfect.
See, I'm gonna try and make ithappen.
That would be a really like funthing to do, like a holiday
thing to do.
Right.
You know what I mean?
I just think it'd be great.
So I'm gonna look into that forhim.
Jenny GK (30:27):
Okay, so a couple weeks ago, um, I was really into
this book, Disappearing Spoon,and I'm still on a science kick.
So I am watching every video byLearning Curve on YouTube.
They're at Learning CurveScience, and um they like break
down plank everything.
What is plank time, what isplank distance, what is plank
mass, and I'm watching it, andmy husband is making fun of me
(30:49):
the entire time.
Caitlin K (30:51):
I don't know what plank means in that context.
Jenny GK (30:53):
Okay, so it's like a scientist that named the
smallest thing, and so thesmallest distance is a plank
distance, the smallest unit oftime is the time that it takes
light to travel that distance,and it's a plank time, and so
everything is measured.
The smallest unit that we haveis plank.
(31:14):
Now, I'm saying this, and I'msure there's a physicist out
there, probably not listening tome, that's like, no, it's not
the smallest, I'm sure there'ssomething else.
Okay, yeah.
From what I know from videos,yeah, and again, you know, I'm
like, I love extreme math, likebig numbers, small numbers.
Speaker (31:32):
This is great.
Extreme math.
Caitlin K (31:36):
Okay, I didn't realize how stupid it's if we
were naming the episodes off ofdumb things we say, this episode
would be called extreme math.
Jenny GK (31:46):
What okay, okay, okay.
I I I enjoy learning about verylarge numbers and very small
ones and extreme math.
Such a nerd.
Okay, well, speaking of nerds,let me give you my gem.
Okay.
Um, my kid, like really doesn'tunderstand what we do at all,
(32:09):
but he knows that we're nerdy.
So he recently had a fever, andwe went and got some pediolite
freezer pops.
Yeah, those are the jam.
Right?
They're great.
Caitlin K (32:21):
If you're not on board with those, you should
always have them in yourfreezer.
Jenny GK (32:25):
You can and you can make them, you could take
pediolite and just put it in apopsicle mold.
But um, we didn't have any, sowe picked up some more.
And John is giving him one andsays, Oh, kid, this is made by
the company I used to work for,which is Abbott, a medical
device company.
Caitlin K (32:45):
A medical device company.
Jenny GK (32:47):
They make pediolite, they make infamil, they make the
COVID tests, the Binax now.
Caitlin K (32:53):
Yeah, they make all kinds, yeah, they make all kinds
of things.
Jenny GK (32:56):
Now, John didn't work for that side of it, he worked
for the neurological side wherethey do brain and uh spine
stimulation, but still, samecompany.
They make medical things.
Right.
And Kit, really notunderstanding what we do for a
living at all, especially.
I mean, I guess he gets like, Iwork at a school, but because
he can, you know, reason.
Caitlin K (33:17):
Explainable.
Jenny GK (33:18):
But for John, he just knows he's like some kind of
math nerd, like he doesn'treally know what he does.
And so he says, Oh, Kit, theseare made by a company I used to
work for.
And Kit goes, Chase Bank?
Caitlin K (33:32):
I'm getting like, what is Chandler Bing's job
vibes from this?
Speaker (33:36):
Right, like John has never worked for Chase Bank.
Now not only is it like wrong,but it's like really wrong.
Right.
Jenny GK (33:43):
Like he's never these are popsicles for sick kids.
You think Chase Bank makesthese?
Caitlin K (33:49):
Baby boy.
I love him so much.
He's the sweetest.
He's so cute and so funny.
I love little kids.
No, honey.
No.
Well, we're we're we have asimilar kind of gym.
Where my son said somethingthat was kind of well-meaning.
It was actually verywell-meaning.
So here's what happened.
(34:10):
Um, we're we're in the throesof homework frustrations at our
house.
Uh, we work on math homeworkduring the week.
His teachers bless them, assignthe homework on Fridays, and
it's not due till the followingMonday.
So that means if you want towork on it over the weekend, you
can.
Or you can just work on itduring the week and then you
(34:30):
turn it in the following Monday.
So, not a big deal.
You get a lot of time to workon this.
Um, so we choose to do likehe's in third grade, no more
than 30 minutes of homework anight.
And that's my general rule forany grade level is 10 minutes of
homework a night by a gradelevel.
So if they're sixth graders,they should have 60 minutes of
homework a night.
(34:50):
And if it takes longer thanthat, then you need to have a
conversation.
Anyway, um at one point, my sonwas feeling very frustrated
with his math skills becausehe's the kind of person who he
thinks about the answer in akind of a roundabout way, but he
also can't always put down onpaper what he's doing.
(35:12):
Right.
Even though if you talk to him,it makes perfect sense what
he's doing.
Right.
Like you, you're like, oh, Isee you're just taking, instead
of making it $3.99, you'readding all the three dollars
together.
Yes.
And then you're adding all the99 cents together, and then
you're gonna put I I seeeverything, I see it all.
Jenny GK (35:27):
There's reason there.
He's just having a hard timedocumenting it.
Caitlin K (35:30):
Exactly.
And for that reason, he kind ofsort of has this moment where
he doesn't really feel verysmart.
And so we've had theseconversations of like, it's not
about being smart, like that youcan't express this.
It's you are you are a verybright kid who is very capable
of learning.
Your difficulty is staying calmwhen you feel frustrated, and
(35:51):
then telling us what you'rethinking so that we can put it
on the paper.
Right.
That's where the issue is.
And at one point, he saidsomething that triggered my
husband to say, like, you know,there are times where I don't
feel very smart, it's just how Ifeel.
Like, and I understand why youfeel frustrated.
(36:11):
And in response, Sam goes, Dad,I love you.
And I think you're smarter thanyou actually are.
And the intention wasbeautiful.
It was the most wellintentioned comment.
It just didn't come out the wayit needed to.
(36:31):
And Bryce Brussels' heart, he'slike, Thanks, buddy.
I was like, just bless you.
Like it was so sweet.
He really was just trying tosay, like, Danny, you're so
smart.
Like, I'm so proud of you.
And it just came out.
Speaker (36:46):
And it's one of those moments where you're like
actually biting your lip so thatyou don't laugh.
Because that's not the responsethat's appropriate.
But at the same time, I'mpretty sure, yeah.
Caitlin K (36:56):
I'm pretty sure what I actually did was I had my hand
on Bryce's back and I just likekind of clenched my hand into
his shirt.
I was like, oh my god.
Like, like just retra likepulled my claws in to look like
talons, and I was like holdingonto a shirt.
Like, if I don't if I let go,I'm gonna laugh.
I'm gonna laugh.
Because it was just so it wassuch a beautiful moment.
It just came out all wrong.
(37:16):
So funny.
Love it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Oh man.
Caitlin K (37:21):
All right.
Well, okay.
When you're learning aboutextreme math and you need to
know how to dress for an event,make your choices.
And you're probably smarterthan I think you are, too.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.