Why ADHD Brains Struggle with Money (+12 Game-Changing Strategies)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin Kindred (00:00):
Flying by the seat of our pants for most
things, including the thing thatwe claim to be professional at,
which is podcasting.
I've been doing this now forfour, I don't know how many
years Four, anyway, hi guys,it's the first.
Yeah, I think so.
Well, this is the first episodeof season five.

Ariella Monti (00:20):
Yeah.

So Damn Time blindness.
I know Time blindness.
I know Time blindness is real.
Also, by the way, if someonesays to me 10 or 15 years ago, I
immediately retreat to the 90s.
So like I have no concept oftime.

Right.

Like, oh my gosh.
Anyway, guys, it's the firstepisode of season five.
Can you even believe it?
We're so glad you're here Ifyou've stuck with us for this
long.
Thank you, wow, it's just wow.
This is how to be a grown up.
This is the how to show for anywoman who's ever said my meds

(00:58):
just kicked in and I amdangerously productive right now
Happens sometimes.
Dangerously productive rightnow, um, happens sometimes.
We've got Ariella Monti herenovelist and sparkling fountain
of wisdom and glitter.
Oh, here she is yeah, yeah, hereshe is.
Today we're talking about ADHDand money Very dangerous topic

(01:27):
specifically like financialchallenges that we have and then
how to kind of overcome thesefinancial challenges, because
Lord knows that impulsivity whenit comes to money is rough.
So before we do that, though,in honor of our fifth season

(01:47):
beginner opener whatever thatword is please make sure you're
subscribed to this show.
Hit, subscribe, hit, follow, dowhatever it is you need to do
on your favorite podcast appsthat you don't miss an episode,
you know, whatever, because youdon't want to be left out.
No, fomo is real, and this isthe kind of FOMO where it's like

(02:08):
you don't even have to RSVP andthen feel like you want to back
out.
You don't even have to be flakyabout it Right.
Exactly, that's my favorite,kind of like JOMO, like joy of
missing out, and I'm like, yeah,that sounded fun when I said,
yes, you know three weeks ago,but now I just want to stay in
my bed and my pajamas.

(02:29):
So you don't have to worryabout that with this, you can
just like hit subscribe and thenlisten when it's convenient for
you, right?

Exactly, it's amazing, exactly.

Okay, so teach me about my issues with money,
because I have that.
So teach me about my issueswith money, because I have that,
because Amazon.
There's a reason Jenny's notallowed to have an Amazon
account anymore and there's areason that I push all my orders
to one day of the week becauseit's rough.

Those are the kinds of things that we'll talk
about today.
But all of the disclaimers,because I am not at all
qualified, either academicallyor professionally, to give
financial advice.
Oh my God, can you imagine?
No, I, in grad school, I tookone accounting class and I got a
C in it.

So, yeah, well done.
I know, yeah, I know you'reanti-math in general, so you
getting a C, I'm actually quiteimpressed.
Good job, quite impressed, goodjob, right, right exactly.

I had to work hard for that c.
It's the only c I got in gradschool.
All right, I'm just.
I'm thinking about all themoney I spent on grad school for
that c and just to have my,just to get that obsolete degree
in publishing okay, so oh mygosh.
So this I just need everyone toknow that this is just a primer

(03:48):
on why people with ADHD tend tostruggle with their finances.
I have been struggling withmanaging money since I was
getting an allowance from myparents.
When I was using that allowanceto buy Tiger Beat magazines to
rip pictures of Jonathan TaylorThomas and Devin Sawa and put

(04:08):
them on my walls.

Oh, good choices though.

Excellent, excellent choices Of course,
exactly, devin Sawa.

If you're listening, you're still
13-year-old, me's ideal, anyway,anyway, okay my husband kind of
looks like a comment of mine.
Yeah, he does.
Yeah, he like.
He like looks for.
I don't know if he looks for itor if he like actually pays
attention, but if you mentionhim he will respond in a lot of

(04:37):
situations.

it's pretty funny like my 12 year old self died
when he liked a comment of mineand I was like oh my God, oh my
goodness, my life is complete,yeah, right.
Like that's it, I'm good.

Yeah, between that and my like, lisa Loeb
tweet like that's it, oh yeah.
It's done.
It's done.
That would make me so happy.
I'm over.
It's finished.
Nothing else to say.
Okay, so Devon Sala magazines.

Right, so that's what I was blowing my money on
when I was blowing my allowanceon back in the 90s and a lot of
financial information is writtenby and for people with a
certain amount of financialprivilege, and how ADHD
intersects with finances is justone part of an extremely
nuanced conversation about money.
I am acknowledging that thosepieces exist and today we're
just going to focus on this onetiny part of it because, to
circle back, I got a C inaccounting and I am not

(05:52):
professionally or academicallyqualified to talk about all of
those nuances.

Yeah, and I think there's also something to
be said for, like, just money ingeneral is such a controversial
topic, like it's kind of one ofthose things that people tend
to avoid at dinner tables, right, because it's like it feels
rude or whatever.
But I think, especially formillennials who've experienced
recessions, and I feel like ourgeneration in particular has

(06:19):
experienced so much trauma withthe world happenings right, yeah
, we had 9-11, we had thedot-com bubble, we had the house
there's so many differentthings that our generation has
experienced Money.
Our parents are boomers who haddifferent experiences with
money, and trying to explainthose but also navigate these

(06:42):
challenges is really important.
So you add that layer to thisadhd layer and you're absolutely
right that any, any time you'retalking about money, it does
sound like it's coming from aplace of privilege, and that's
not the intent here.
And I will say I've skimmedthrough some of these pieces of
advice you've provided and theseare not, like you know,

(07:03):
whatever the people are on sharktank who are like, well, well,
if you just did this, if youjust stop buying avocado toast,
you'll have it's not, it's notabout that it's not about this.
It's not about, like here's howI made my first six figures.
It's not a LinkedIn post Rightabout what specific ADHD money

(07:24):
challenges we have and thenspecific ways you might be able
to ease that impulsivity andissue with money that you may or
may not be experiencing.

Exactly, Exactly so the sources and the resources
that I pulled some of thisinformation from, not only from
our existence as just ADHDmillennials who are bad with
money, also chadorg, the miniADHD coach and verywellmindcom.

(07:56):
And those are all in the shownotes.
Yes, and so let's get started.
So how does ADHD worsenfinancial challenges?
It's, I mean, it's this.
It's very much the same thing,the same kind of symptoms that
we've been talking about, with,like everything else, right.

You just didn't realize it also impacted your
finances.
Right, it's literally all of it.

Exactly, it's like the same symptoms.
That makes it hard for you tokeep your desk organized is also
why it's hard to manage yourfinances.
So executive dysfunction is thebiggest one.
So executive dysfunction islike the biggest one.
Disorganization this is thelosing invoices, losing bills,

(08:52):
losing paychecks if they're notdirect deposited.
I once, when I was freelancing,I once lost a paycheck that was
mailed to me and completelyforgot that I had received it
and so I invoiced the clientagain.
Oh no, and then had to likework.
You know then I like work, thatmoney off, like with the next

(09:12):
assignments.
Oh, you've got doom, piles ofmail and just stuff like on your
countertop.
This is also connected to taskinitiation issues.
So we put off handling ourbills because it's multiple

(09:33):
tasks kind of in one task.
It might not just be likepaying that doctor's bill, it
might be, you know, putting in athousand different passwords
for you know to log into yourMyChart account and then like
selling the soul of yourfirstborn child in order to

(09:55):
check the email.

I'll actually like pull it all together.
I'll have the doom pile now inmy hand and I'll be like ready
to go through this stack one byone and pay the bills.
And then I'm like oh, mywallet's in the other room I
have to go get it Cause.
I I don't have my card numbersmemorized because that would be
extremely dangerous for me.
So then I'm like now I have toget up and it just and all of a

(10:22):
sudden it to the other room andthen 14 steps back.
But like it's just that kind ofit's that mentality too.

It makes it harder.
Exactly.

And I get embarrassed.
It's triggering Right.

It's very triggering.
So it's and this is somethingthat I have been dealing with
for a long time is the like Iwould literally rather do
anything else than handle payingthe bills, because it triggers
so much guilt and shame andanxiety.
And like, when you throw in youknow me being financially

(11:03):
insecure where, like, you haveto decide like am I going to pay
this bill or am I going to paythis bill?
Or now you're seeing, like yourcredit card debt, you know go
skyrocketing yeah right, Like atthat point, like if I just put
it over here and ignore it, I'llforget about it if it goes

(11:24):
underneath this one thing.
Right, right, just move it upto the side Right oh now I don't
have to think about it anymore.

But then you feel bad about that too, and
then you get anxious about thebills that you haven't paid, or
anxious about when you do pay it, how much money you're going to
have left.
Like there's so many otherpieces of it's a very emotional
experience.
Money is already emotional foreveryone, and then you add in
this other element of like shamespiraling which we've discussed
in a previous episode, and itjust makes it so much harder to

(11:55):
handle exactly that kind ofthing.

Yeah, yeah, it's like it wants to purposely make
themselves feel bad.
I mean like, I mean, nobody iswired that way, but adhd people
are definitely not wired thatway.
So right, right um another bigissue time blindness, because
time is meaningless and it alsofeels like everything is a

(12:19):
priority or nothing is apriority, yeah, so it either
needs to be done immediately orit just never needs to be done,
ever.
Um, so this is the like, thegetting a bill and then being
like, okay, I'll pay that later,and then like three weeks go by
and now it's due.
Oops, it happens a lot withstuff that is taking place like

(12:43):
in the far future.
So I think we could talk aboutlike our chances of ever
retiring in another episode.
But, like you know,fundamentally I came from a
family who was very mindful oflike saving for retirement, and
so I know I should besquirreling away money for large

(13:06):
expenses like way off in thefuture.
But I get way more dopamine byplanning a weekend getaway for
next month.

Or starting a new hobby and buying all the
things for it.
And suddenly you're $300 in andyou're like, oh, I shouldn't
have spent that, because you notonly did you not use it,
because once the dopamine hitrunaway, you stopped caring
about the items that you bought,but that $300 is something you
could have put towards a weekendgetaway or your retirement

(13:38):
right Like there's just exactly,it's, it's little things too.

So that ties in perfectly with the impulsiveness
because we're so low dopamine,we are looking for more dopamine
, and this is where I have it inthe in the notes here.
When I was writing all of thisup, cue ariela realizing she
forgot to take her meds thismorning.
Me too, yeah, I forgot.

(14:02):
I have since taken them.
But when I was writing this upI was like, oh yeah, store you
know, thinking in my head likestore-bought, dopamine is great.

I forgot to take mine today I haven't taken
it, yeah oops, it's okay thatinstant gratification of, of
seeing a tiktok about embroideryand then like buying all the
materials which I still have Istarted embroidery and I still
have an unfinished like thingand I'm I'm actually like decent

(14:33):
at it because I have ADHD andI'm decent at a lot of things,
and I just never finished it.

Right, exactly yes, and that there's more
dopamine in that than saving forretirement.

Oh yeah, which I don't even know will happen,
right, I don't even know if I'llever retire, so like, right,
yolo.

Right, that's a whole like if somebody hasn't
studied.
Like the way millennials arebasically like throwing away,
like their thoughts ofretirement, like somebody should
study, study, right.

And then all the buzzfeed articles that are
like, if you have an adult money, now look at these cool things
you can buy.
And it's like a weird penguinlight and you're like, yes, I do
, I do need that because what is?

retirement like I have adults, exactly.
I can do what I want, right,exactly.

Exactly, yeah, that's, one of them is all the
hobbies.
What else?
What else are we going tostupidly do?

The big one that I experienced when I was working
in an office with other peopleis like the buying lunch or
bringing lunch.
And then your coworkers arelike I'm going to go to this.
You know I'm going to go toMoe's Monday or Pizza Friday.
And now you're like, oh cool, Iwould much rather have a Moe's

(15:58):
burrito than the turkey sandwichthat I brought.

You also justify it because you're like
but see, if I do that, then Ialready have my lunch made for
tomorrow.
So I don't have to, I can justtake, I can leave this in the
fridge here and then I have itfor tomorrow and I'm all good.
I don't have to pack lunchtonight so that you play weird
mind games with yourself withthat stupid stuff.
Exactly.

And like I think this, like this cycle of like
making my lunch, bringing mylunch, not eating my lunch
because my friends are going outto eat, and then spending money
that I didn't have to spend,like could have diagnosed me
with ADHD in my early 20s.
Like that alone, I think wouldhave been like yep, there you go

(16:42):
.
And then I mean when we thinkabout impulsiveness, like any
in-person shopping experience,like especially when we were all
shopping at Target.

Oh man, target was my kryptonite.
Yeah, it was my.
I would stop at Target on theway home from work just for,
like the dopamine hit, like justto walk through the Target and
be like, oh look at these cuteearrings that I'll wear three
times and never, but lookthey're, but they're cats.
Look how cute.
Like just stupid stuff likethat.

(17:12):
But yes, right, Yep.

Exactly Yep.
It's like a scientific term,but it is definitely a
colloquial term for the extramoney that we spend as a result

(17:38):
of our ADHD symptoms.
So it's the fresh produce thatnever gets used and just rots in
your CRISPR.
It's the late fees for paying abill that was after it's due.
It's the increased interestrates because all those late
bills ended up going tocollections Not that you know

(18:00):
I'm taking out loans anytimesoon.

Payday loans.

Oh, man, like yeah, and then like even stuff
like buying a second itembecause you lost the first.

That literally just happened to me.
I have a hat that I wear for Igo on my walks, and it is one of
those ones that you can, like,put your hair through it, so it
has kind of a cut out hole onthe back and I was like, oh, I
like this gray hat.
I can't seem to find mine, I'llsee, I'll just buy this other
one.
It's not expensive.
But to me, opening this hat andthen turning around to hang it

(18:38):
up, and where is the other hat,on the exact hook I'm going to
hang up the new hat on, and Iwas like, really, you did this,
this is what you did.
This is stupid.
Why did you do that?
And being so angry at myself,and then guilt and shame, and I

(18:59):
was and someone's like, well,you could have just sent it back
.
And then what did my stupidself do?
I was like, no, because if Ilose this one, then I have the
other.
Like you know, you justify oh,my gosh, it was.
So I I shame spiraled over thatfor several hours that night,
like just beating myself up overan $11 hat.

Right.
So the earbuds that I'm usingtoday, because my other
headphones are dead, they needto be charged.
So the ones that I'm wearingright now I have two pairs of
them, because I lost one pair,couldn't find them anywhere for
a while and was just like screwit.

(19:38):
You know, at the time I wasworking out a lot, so I needed
something.
Yeah, um, yeah, and so I wentand bought a new pair and then,
I think it was like two weekslater, I found the other ones
yep, yep, yep, and like theseweren't cheap.
I mean, they're not likeAirPods, but they were like 60
bucks.
But now I have one that I keepin my car and one that I keep in

(20:00):
the house.
So, like it is what it is.

Yeah, it's fine yeah.
You'll make it work, but it'sjust, it's so frustrating when
you do stuff like that and Idon't mean you, but like when a
person with this deals with thisit's so stupid, yeah, yeah,
okay, let's actually likeaddress this, because I think a
lot of the times in our episodeswe're like here's the problems,
come back next week forsolutions.
But I think we got to talkabout what some solutions are

(20:23):
for this.
Like this would be absolutelygood so these are just some
ideas.

Some came from the resources that I talked
about earlier.
Some are things that I or myfriends have done that I've
found helpful.
So, like we say with all ofthese kinds of ideas, take what
you need, leave what you don't.
Your mileage will vary, so thefirst one is always going to be

(20:49):
like work with a financialplanner or an advisor who did
much better in accounting than Idid, somebody who's actually
certified or whateverprofessional licenses are
required.
They can help you figure outyour long and your short term
goals.
Somebody like a financial coachcould help you establish a

(21:09):
budget and a system for stickingto that budget.
That is something that myhusband and I did a few years
ago.
We worked with a financialcoach who actually also has ADHD
, so she understood a lot of outlike a lot of my challenges and
we came up with just kind of abudgeting system that has worked
.
Nothing works perfectly ever,but has worked reasonably well

(21:36):
and has been reasonablysuccessful compared to the chaos
before.

Yeah, at least someone who's kind of you know
objective third party who's like, hey, these are things you
could be doing and these arethings you should be doing, and
then having that person kind ofcheck in with you every so often
is probably a good thing.
Exactly exactly.

And you know when we're talking about financial
privilege.
Yes, those services do comewith a price.
I do believe that there aresome nonprofits out there and
other resources that are eitherfree or low cost.
There might be resources atyour library, so it can kind of
run the gamut of like spendingmoney to save money.

Sure.

Yeah yeah, Budget and home finance apps.
So I personally I don't know ifyou use any, but personally I
can't recommend any because Idon't use them.
But I know that I have a ton offriends to do.
If you're going to use one, Iwould recommend asking a

(22:41):
neurodivergent friend.
Don't ask your neurotypicalfriend which one they use.
No, if ask the friend who has alot of the same challenges that
you do yeah, I started.

I signed myself up for nerd wallet.
There's a free and a premiumservice.
I just use the free service,sometimes just the email alone
that says like, hey, good job,your credit score went up.
You're like, yes, like it'sjust enough of the hit that you
need.
Or sometimes, you know,sometimes a little guilt and
shame is a good thing right whenit'll say like, hey, you spent

(23:13):
this much on clothes.
Do you even wear these clothes?
You work from home.
You don't need nice clothes,like you can wear a t-shirt.
It doesn't say that, but itwill say like you know, you
spent this much on XYZ thismonth.
Just have that in your head andyou're like, oh, yeah, so
that's the one I use and it canlike pull together all of your

(23:33):
stuff for you.
I've also heard lots of goodthings about Rocket Money, which
is the app that searches foryour subscription services that
you're not using and then itwill help you cancel them, which
, for adhd people, I think thatshould be included in the adhd
tax of, like, all the stuff wesign up for on a whim, but then

(23:54):
don't actually end up using.

So um something to think about there right,
exactly you skipping ahead on mylittle like idea list.
A tip for that that I got Ithink actually it was I think it
was our friend joanna who saidit the turning off the auto
renew like as soon as you signup for something yeah, I have

(24:18):
gotten better about thatum if it's like a non-essential
subscription, you know, becauseyou know that week is going to
turn into like a full month,like in a blink.
So yeah, like sign up for itand then pretty much immediately
cancel the subscription becauseyou're still going to get the
full you get the full year,you're just not yeah yeah,

(24:40):
exactly, whatever it is, you tryit out exactly so smart, For
this could be bank dependent,but it have two checking
accounts.
So one and this is actually whatwe do and what we have found to
be really helpful is yourdirect deposit and your monthly

(25:03):
like your consistent monthlybills are all go in and come out
of one checking account.
And then the other one is theone that money goes into for all
of the like regular spending,that or even non-essential
spending.
So that's what you pull out of,like when you go to the doctor

(25:26):
or you go, you know you go outto eat or something.
It's kind of like you're usingyour out of sight, out of mind,
to your advantage, because allof your bills and stuff are all
going in and coming out of onepot that you're not touching for

(25:47):
stuff like groceries.

Yeah, you could even take it a step further and
say, like, that account doesn'thave a debit card, or if it
does, you don't carry that debitcard with you, it stays in one
place all the time.
You never get to touch it.
So, that means you're not, youcan, can't, even you can't use
it because it's not with you,right?

and then just make sure everything is auto
paid auto pay is your friend.

Like right.
Sign everything up for that,for sure, right right,
definitely I.

I had intentions of doing this, but I didn't know
.
I probably I had intentions ofdoing this and then, like, never
follow through with it.
Like you know, a lot of adhdpeople do right, exactly, but
what I was planning on doing wasgetting some kind of like
reloadable debit card oractually like.
My paypal account has somethinglike that, um, where, basically

(26:41):
, you put money on it and thenyou can use it for non-essential
spending.
You have to check the fees onthis, though, because you know
how they charge you.
I think for the PayPal one thatI was planning on using, I
don't think there were any feesassociated with it, because I
was basically just putting mylike money that was already in

(27:03):
my PayPal account like onto it.
Yeah, makes sense, and that waswhat I was going to use for for
, like, going to the coffee shopand stuff like that.
Yeah, I never did, because itwas an extra step Right, but it
could be something that worksfor someone else.

If Amazon is your kryptonite.
I'm not pointing any fingers atmyself, but I'm totally
pointing fingers at myself.
Tonight I'm not pointing anyfingers at myself, but I'm
totally pointing fingers atmyself.
Consider, like a reloadablegift card or like a monthly
allowance that you put towardsthat.
So it's like you only get tospend, you know, $75 a month on
Amazon and then when that $75 isdone, you're done, and you

(27:41):
don't have you don't have backuppayment methods stored inside
there so that you can't, youcan't overspend.
So something like that might bereally helpful for you, if you
have, if you know that there isa thing that your kryptonite is,
is absolutely attached to forsure.
So something like that.

Definitely and, like you know, speaking of
Amazon, like cancel Prime,cancel prime, like if you, or
like just seriously consider it,because having to wait longer
for something or pay forshipping is going to throw up a

(28:17):
speed bump and the stuff thatyou think you need right away
you might not actually needright away.
Yeah, um, we canceled prime andyou can still have subscribe and
save while not being a primemember right I think, like we
did for a long time, we thoughtyou had to be a prime member and
also to have subscribe and save, and that's not the case.

(28:40):
We canceled prime in januaryand I can honestly tell you that
it has it's decreased a lot ofour like I say our my impulse
purchases.
Um, I think, a lot.
I put a lot more intention intowhat I buy and stuff, because I

(29:03):
either have to pay for shippingit's going to take me forever
to get it or, when you're not aPrime member, there are some
things where the price is moreexpensive, so it's a little bit
higher.
So all of those things kind ofthrow up a few roadblocks.
Now, that being said, if Primeis something that is an

(29:25):
accommodation for you, it makescertain things more accessible
that you need to survive andexist.
Like, please keep using, like,keep using it.
This is just something that, ifyou're looking to slow down
your you know you don't haveimpulse control when it comes to

(29:48):
it.
This is just another strategy.

Well, and you are the one who turned me on to
the only buying things oncertain days of the week, like
only getting to, like you know,you have things only delivered
on Sundays, or you only get topull the trigger on Sundays and
I'm the queen of put it in mycart and then leave it there and
like move it to save for lateror whatever.
And most of the time if I moveit to save for later, I don't

(30:15):
purchase it.
It's just something that I it'salmost like a wish list of
things I saw on BuzzFeed that Ifeel like I want to have, but
then I don't actually end upbuying it.
So something like that could bereally helpful.
And then that way, like ifyou're like, oh, I, you know, I
need this one thing overnightbecause it's medicine for my dog
.

Right.

But I can't get overnight shipping unless I add
, you know, unless I hit $25worth of whatever, then I can go
to my state for later and I goOK.
But I actually do kind of wantthis mascara now, like because
I'm out of mascara, I can go tomy state for later and I can go
okay.
But I actually do kind of wantthis mascara now, like because
I'm out of mascara I can move itup to my cart and then I can
get you know what I'm sayinglike it's, it's sort of like
that for me, but I still onlywill actually let myself
purchase things one day a weekand it's been.

(30:58):
That's.

That alone has been very helpful, and I'm sure
my husband appreciates the factthat there's not just like boxes
showing up at our house all thetime although when christmas
time comes around, it's all betsare off, but still, yeah, you
know for now it helps exactly,and I think going along with
that, like the the save, movingthings to like the saved can
also work as like a visual wishlist kind of like you know what

(31:22):
pinterest used to be like right,you know, let's's have
seriously.
Yeah, and you can still usePinterest as as a visual
wishlist, like what I ended updoing is like I take a picture
of a thing and then I add it toa running list in my notes app
and then why I wanted to buy it.
Because very often I willforget the whole if I go and I

(31:47):
impulsively buy something andthen I get home and then
whatever I needed it for, Ican't handle like immediately
and a couple of days go by LikeI will completely forget what.

I wanted it for .

Yeah Right, wanted it for, yeah right, and
so you know, so say I like, sayI used.
Like, walked into target, saw abasket.
I will take a picture of thebasket, I will write what I
wanted to use the basket for andyou know.
But not buy it because I knowI'm not going to be able to
handle that product, like tacklethat project immediately and

(32:25):
then, like a week or so later, Imight find something at home
that satisfies the need that Iwas gonna, you know, use for
this basket that is a very goodidea.

I love that idea because I am the queen of
like, I need this to organize, Ineed and like, and then I have
50 baskets in my house and Idon't need that much stuff.
So, yeah, I think that's areally good one.
I like that one a lot, yeah.

And then I kind of do it backwards too.
So I'm still trying to find,like the right containers and
organizational system for all ofmy like book, event stuff, and
what I'll end up doing is I'mlike'm like oh, this is a
perfect bin for my postcards andI'll bring it home.
And the postcards are too bigfor the bin.

(33:16):
Like so what do you do to takethe?

bin back, or do you keep it, because I'm a
person, oh no, I'll keep it.

I will find a use for it.

Exactly, that's exactly it, I'll find a way to
use this I right, right, but itstill doesn't solve the problem
of.

So what I'll do is, if I'm not specifically
shopping for something, I willlike either take a picture of
the like, so take like thepostcard.
So what I'll do is I will likemeasure everything like and then
make little notes so that whenI am in, say like coals, and I

(33:55):
find something I could be likethis might fit in my xyz, and
then I can like check and see oh, but xyz is actually two inches
shorter.
I can't use this for that, andthen I won't end up buying
something that doesn't fit.
Yeah, smart Body, double Bodydoubling is good for all of

(34:17):
those organizational.

Everything.

Literally everything.
Oh everything it's good foreverything.
Everything, it's good foreverything, all the things you
want to do.

It's good for everything.

Yeah, you want to do good right, I have used body
doubling most successfully withgoing through those doom piles
of mail and filing and stuff.
So I will hang out with afriend who also has adhd and
either we will do both doprojects or I will do the thing

(34:48):
that I need to do and they willlike just that.
They're a talk to me.
You know, um, I did go throughbills that I had set aside with
my therapist.
I texted her or emailed herbefore our session and I was
like hey, can we spend the hourlike organizing my bills and

(35:13):
like, yeah, that's what I didlike in virtual.
So I was like in my office goingthrough everything, and then it
was good because she was ableto be like, how are you feeling
right now?

Like what is this?

bringing up for you and like work through, like,
and she went as far as actuallylike making notes of the things
that I haven't paid, like thebills that had to be handled.
Yeah, I didn't like ask her todo that, but she was like okay,
well, while you're doing that,I'll make little like notes and

(35:45):
stuff.

That's amazing and like, and also it's kind of
it's like when you, when youhave a fidget task or fidget
thing in front of you and soyou're, you almost talk more
freely because you havesomething else occupying you in
a way.
And yeah, that's a reallyinteresting idea.
You've talked about that before, but it hadn't occurred to me
how helpful it might have beenfor something like this.

(36:08):
I love it.

Yeah, yeah, definitely Use that divergent
thinking of ours.
You know we talked aboutdivergent thinking, like how we
can kind of see a thing and thenwe can, you know, think of
different ways to like use athing and so just like, think
out of the box for strategiesthat might work for you, even if

(36:30):
they're kind of unorthodox.
So, like you know, if a digitalcalendar is too out of sight,
out of mind, like use a paperone, use post-it notes.
You know, use whatever is goingto use the tools that are going
to help you be successful.
I hate spreadsheets.
So I track all of my businessexpenses using a Google form and

(36:52):
then the Google form turnseverything into a spreadsheet
and I don't know why.
It's easier for me to track myexpenses like that, but it is.
I say that as though I don'thave a stack of receipts from an
event I did in July stillsitting over by my desk.
But it will be easier when Ieventually get to it.

Yeah, I love that idea.
You've mentioned that to mebefore.
I think it's genius.

Personally, Anything you can turn into a
form.

if you hate spreadsheets, you might as well
just do it.
Exactly, exactly.

Use your pathological demand avoidance to
your advantage.
Okay, so be petty and bespiteful, for your benefit.
So happy Tell me everythingabout this idea Right.
So a lot of the things we love,especially about online

(37:46):
shopping is put in placespecifically to get us to buy
more of it.
It's free returns and freeshipping, like.
The system is specificallygeared to make us impulsive and
to tap into our impulsivetendencies.
So just be petty about it.

(38:08):
Like, if they want you to add$15 for free shipping, be like
no capitalism, I'm not gonna.

Oh my gosh, I love this.
So because I love a nice pettymoment.
I'm just, I am that that girlright, right, I'm so basic.
I love a good petty moment.
So if this is my opportunity todo it, yes, yes, doing it.
Yes, I mean nice big finger tocapitalism.

I mean pretty much like yeah, you know, I, I
am one of those people who haveridiculously downsized my target
spending since they ended theirdei policies.
Yeah, me too and so now it'slike oh, some of it is like my

(38:59):
core values and my morals, andthe other part of it is just
like like no target, like I'mgonna go to Staples and get my
office, I'm going to get myschool supplies there at Staples
, instead of Target.

And I won't buy a cute shirt that goes along
with it Exactly.

I am just going to go, I'm just going to Staples
and I'm just buying officesupplies which I mean not for
nothing I could do a lot ofdamage and staples.

Yeah, me too, I have before when, I was
teaching, I used to do a lot ofdamage and staples.
But also yeah, like the impulse, like the little treat for
myself it wasn't like a T-shirtand jeans or whatever, it was
like a candy bar that you wouldget in the aisle at the end and
like how much more.
You know it was still the samedopamine hit.
It was like, oh, I got a candybar.
It was exactly the same feeling.
It was just that you know.

(39:50):
And it was just a cheaper one.
It was cheaper dopamine cheaper.

Exactly, yeah, no , I love it.

I think it's great Power that spite, I'm here
for it Exactly.

Like you, spite to your advantage, like just, I
mean just go for it.

Yeah, there are days where I'm totally powered
by coffee and spite, like it'sall good, exactly.

And the last one, I think it's more of a mindset
shift.
It's, you know, looking at someof our ADHD taxes, the things
that we pay more for as part ofour ADHD, like looking at it as
an accommodation that helps usnot just save money but like
helps us exist in just a lessstressful way.

(40:35):
So, like the chopped salad kitis more expensive than buying
all of the ingredientsseparately.
But if I get all of theingredients separately and then
I have to put the salad together, I may as well just take all
that stuff and throw it in thegarbage as soon as I bring it
home, because that's where it'sgoing to end up.

Yes, like Feel that in my bones.

Right Meanwhile, the chopped salad kit is.
All I got to do is open up thebag and put it in a bowl.
Yeah, the, you know, my husbandmakes baked chicken, you know,
for he like meal preps and hewill make him like like a couple
of days worth of like bakedchicken.
And he asked me, like do youwant me to just make more?

And I will, you know you know, so you can have
it ready for your salad.

Yeah, exactly Right, and but my answer was no.
I want to keep using these.
Frozen breaded chicken tendersare more expensive of crispy

(41:51):
chicken is going to.
Is I'm more likely to eat thatchicken salad with the chicken
tenders than I am the bakedchicken which you know.
It's not, like you know, myhusband's not from the Midwest.

Like he puts spices on it, like it's like you
know, what's so funny is youwere doing you're describing
your breaded chicken and hischicken and I realized that my
eyes were closed and I was likestarting to salivate.
Maybe I should just open myeyes, because how creepy is it
that I'm just sitting here likenodding my head back and forth

(42:17):
and like kind of rocking myselfwhile she's talking about
chicken.
But it's totally, yeah, like ifyou're going to have a salad,
having like some crispy chickenskin or something like something
bright.
Oh, that makes it so muchbetter than just baked naked
chicken.

Right, I get it.
It's not even bad.

It's just that I don't want it Right?
You know another?

like the like, the final one that I that is
really big with us is I mean,granted, like my son has very
restrict, a very restrictivepalate, you know.
So we always have strawberries,but, like, fresh strawberries
are way more expensive thanfrozen strawberries.
But I'm not gonna put frozenstrawberries in my yogurt
because they give me the ick anddo people actually let

(43:05):
strawberries thaw and then eatthem.

I don't know, is that a thing I don't do, that
I use my frozen strawberriesfor like a dog treat and like a
Eat.
I don't like I put them in mysmoothie.
I know, ew, of course you don'tput those in your yogurt.
That's just I can't.
I'm sorry.

I feel like I've just offended some people and I
just can't do it.
I just can't do it.
Oh my God.
And this is why we will paymore for the fresh strawberries,
because it's either eat fruitor not, right.

There is no.
Yes, if you would like me toeat any fruit at all, then you
need to make sure it's a texturethat I can handle.
Otherwise, no, exactly all.
Then you need to make sure it'sa texture that I can handle.
Otherwise, no, exactly.
I actually just saw a redditthread about this that was like
what's the food that everyone islike?
Oh my god, I love it so muchand you just cannot stand it.
And a lot of people are likeavocados, which I can understand

(44:00):
.
Avocados on their own, withoutany flavor, like there's no
there's nothing to them.
Like that's gross.
I can have guacamole and I willput everything but the bagel
seasoning all over my avocadotoast but I don't just eat
avocado, like that's weird,right, but mine was bananas
because it was like, oh yeah, Icannot like the texture of a
banana, like I don't mind theflavor, but a texture.

(44:23):
I don't love it.
But I actually really likebanana Laffy Taffy's because
it's like that synthetic I love.
I love that Like those are good.
But I can and I'll eat bananabread and I will put bananas,
frozen bananas, in my smoothies.
But I cannot stand banana andthe idea of a frozen strawberry

(44:44):
like that texture just gives methe same vibe.
Like I don't.

Right.

If you're going to, yeah, you're right If it's
more expensive now, but you'llactually use it and or eat it or
whatever, it might be worth itto pay that ADHD tax to Right To
make it happen Exactly.

And that like goes that.
You can find examples of thatin like food's the easiest one,
but you can find examples ofthat, I think, everywhere.
I like even like keeping prime.
You know when, like, yeah, itwould be cheaper to get rid of
prime, but if like keeping it isbetter for your mental health
for one reason or another,absolutely, absolutely Do it.

(45:26):
You know, yeah, like Absolutelyhealth for one reason or
another, absolutely, absolutelydo it.
You know, yeah, like,absolutely.
So it's the you know.
So I think the mind like, yes,you know we do have this, the
adhd tax for some things, butthen, on the other end of it,
don't really like, if you'regonna think about it as a tax,
think of it as like the thetimes when taxes are actually
used for good things likenational parks and feeding

(45:50):
children.

That's what government does, Ron.
It provides services to peopleRight.
No, totally Think of it asproviding a service for yourself
.
Right Right, be fine with it,it's okay, all right.
Well, in the end, money is theworst screw capitalism money is
terrible.

(46:11):
Screw.
Capitalism is apparently theway, but it's not helping anyone
right now.
At the moment, you know ifyou're one of the top one
percent, you're probably notlistening to this show.
So whatever, no big who cares.
Like you're listening to allyour money as it, like jingles

(46:33):
in your pocket or whatever theheck you don't have coins, never
mind.
it's like richie rich, nevermind.
Um, okay, so next week we areoh my gosh, I can't believe
we're actually gonna to tacklethis topic.
We're talking about ADHD andhormones like, not men's
hormones.
We're talking about women'shormones and how they impact

(46:56):
ADHD, and I've already startedresearching this and I'm already
angry.
So if you are a feminist, getready.
Girls, you're going to want toburn your bra.
This is rough and all the waysthat we should be getting
additional support for ourissues and we're not.

(47:18):
So we'll get into.
This is going to be amulti-parter.
There's no way around it, somake sure you're sticking around
for that.
Subscribe now so you don't missit.

We will be back in a jiff or a gif I don't know
how are you supposed to say thatword.

It's gif, because it's, it's back in a
jiffy.
Yeah, I just meant the word gif, though like the actual image.

Oh oh it doesn't matter there.
You know what I think that.

I think it's what I think it's meant to be
Jif but nobody says that becauseit's got a G.
Right, Guys, we're so good atthis, I'm professional, hey
y'all.
Pov you find a diary exposingforbidden magic and the hot

(48:07):
museum caretaker's life dependson you burning it, Roots and Ink
.
The debut novel by AriellaMonti is the fantasy romance for
rebels.
Use promo code CKANDGK to get20% off your copy at
AriellaMonticom.
Again, that's all capsC-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on

(48:31):
AriellaMontecom.
Get your copy for 20% off today.
Uh okay, no one cares Caitlin,no one cares caitlin, no one
cares.
Um, this is high qualitycontent that everyone wants to

(48:55):
listen to.
The merits of the word gifversus jif right?

yeah, I could do a whole episode on that.

oh, who wants to listen to that?
No, no, moms care about that.
You'd be surprised Really.
Also, I'm just going to be verytransparent about what, why I
don't have anything that I'vegotten done and why I don't have
any hyper fixations aboutanything right now.
My dog is special.

(49:26):
She is a very special girl I.
She's a very high needs dog,and I don't just mean like.
I mean like legitimately highneeds.
She has severe idiopathicepilepsy and if you are a parent
of an epileptic dog, pleasereach out, because this is some
of the hardest stuff I've everexperienced in my life.

(49:46):
Think of, like your friend withthe really colicky baby or
maybe you were that person whohad the very colicky baby and
the baby never stopped crying.
It's like that for three daysafter my dog has cluster
seizures and she's super highneeds all the time.
If she's in that postictal postseizure period, she's really

(50:07):
hard.
If she's in that postictal postseizure period, it's she's
really hard.
So there are going to be timeswhere I am not, I'm not myself,
where I'm not posting online,where I'm not a functioning
human being and has nothing todo with the amount of meds I may
or may not have taken, it'sjust because she's like keeping
me awake for three nights in arow, or like I will be holding

(50:29):
this dog's face.
She's so anxious in thesepost-ictal periods.
I'll be holding her face andtelling her like I love you,
mommy's here, you're safe, andshe's crying Like she's crying,
and we've tested to see if she'sin pain.
She's not in pain, she's justanxious.
And she's also been diagnosedwith some behavioral disorders
Three, three behavioraldisorders.

(50:49):
And I'm like, listen, I'm soglad that my family is handling
all this as well as they are,because I am losing my mind with
her and she's special and Iadore her and I have no
intention of giving up on her atall.
She's just hard.
So if anyone is in that position, like just please know that you

(51:11):
have someone else who is therewith you and can identify and
I'll go into a whole.
I'm sure there'll be a wholeepisode about how to manage this
sort of thing at some point,but I wanted to give that little
glimpse into my life because Igot nothing.
Like there's literally nothingelse that I can.
She is my hyper fixation rightnow, like just trying to get her

(51:31):
absolutely to a place where shelets us sleep at night.
It's so bad that, like, thenotes from the day she was at
the vet read like a horror story.
They were like she neededmultiple pharmacological
pharmacological interventions tohelp her calm down.
It's like, oh man, how bad wasit.
But it was so bad that she wassupposed to have a test done

(51:56):
four hours after her last meddose and then 12 hours after her
last med dose and they let hergo 10 and a half hours after
because they were like she needsto go home, like she's such a
mess.
So, yeah, my poor baby.
Anyway, I just wanted to putthat out there as, like anyone
who needs any kind of support oris living with an extremely

(52:16):
challenging like medicallychallenging dog or pet or
anything, you have somewhereelse to turn to.
But that's my life at thispoint.
So back to GIFs.
Way more entertaining, we'll beback in a GIF.
Back to gifs.
Way more entertaining, we'll beback in a gif.
No, no, next week.
We'll be back next week withour conversation about adhd and
hormones.
Um, until then, as jenny wouldsay, make good choices, love

(52:38):
y'all mean it.
Thanks for sticking with us.
Here's to season five.
Bye.

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