Episode 10: Creating Your Own Future with Ivy Jelisavac

This week, I'm talking with director Ivy Jelisavac about intrinsic motivation, creating structure to get things done, and building community online. For the past two years, Ivy's been my creative accountability partner, and I'm tremendously inspired by her grit, talent, and commitment to creating a better world--and film industry.

Episode Transcript

Intro (00:03):
You're listening to How to Be Creative, a podcast about
what it means to be creativeacross different disciplines,
industries, life circumstances,and career structures.
You'll learn tips for fittingcreativity into your daily life
and hear from a bunch ofdifferent people about how being
creative has helped them reachgoals, open doors, and live a
more rewarding--or at least moreinteresting--life.

(00:24):
I'm your host, Kat O'Leary, andI'm excited to introduce you to
some of my favorite creatives,as well as to the tools that
help me get my most crucial workdone.

Kat (00:37):
My guest today is Ivy Jelisavac.
Ivy is a director working acrossEurope.
Her work explores the humancondition, personal connection
and resilience of spirit whennot on set.
She's usually outside with herdog, Eli, ideally in on or near
bodies of water.
Thanks so much for joining me,Ivy.
Thank you for having me.

(00:59):
I'm really excited about this.
Um, so just a little bit ofbackground, um, for my audience.
Um, Ivy and I have beenaccountability partners,
creative accountability partnersfor I think coming like around
two years now, right?
Yeah.
Which is amazing.
So, um, so like this is aslightly different, I think this

(01:21):
is like a slightly differentepisode from other episodes in
that like you and I I think areboth kind of like embedded in
each other's creative work insort of a different way from
some of the other people thatI've brought on the show so far.
Um, so I just wanted to start,um, I think it'd be great if for
listeners who are maybe notfamiliar with your work, if you

(01:41):
could talk a little bit, um,about your background, um, how
you got into filmmaking andmaybe a rundown of the projects
that you've done in the past andwhat's in the pipeline
currently.

Ivy (01:54):
Yeah, so I'm a film director first and foremost.
Um, I also write, but my focusis definitely on directing.
Um, I, I actually decided tobecome a director really early
in life, which is good and bad.
Um, because I was always superobsessed with just all mediums
of art.

(02:14):
So if my mom wanted to have likea few minutes or hours of peace
when I was little, she wouldjust give me like a blank piece
of paper and a pencil and Iwould be gone for hours just
like coming out with a drawing asong, a bad screenplay and a
theater performance or somethinglike that.
So then when I was around 15,um, I watched an interview with

(02:37):
David Lynch at 1:00 AM and Iremember this very precisely
cause it was like a bigemotional moment for me.
And it said David Lynch,Director, and I wasn't entirely
sure what that was.
I just knew that a director waslike the boss on the film set or
something.
Um, and I looked up the jobdescription and just decided
like, that's what I'm going todo.
Because I realized a film wouldbe a combination of all

(03:02):
different mediums of art that Ireally liked.
Um, that was greater than thesum of its parts.
I would be able to createsomething, uh, with other
people.
I'd get to be a leader.
And all of that just felt like,I don't know, cosmic alignment,
as cheesy as that sounds, itjust felt completely right.
And I'm 28 now.

(03:22):
Um, I've never even considereddoing anything else.

Kat (03:25):
Wow.
I love that so much.

Ivy (03:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, you know, it'sdifficult, um, when you know
exactly what you want to do, butit's a very difficult career
path.
It's not like you go to filmschool and then you're
guaranteed a job or likeincorporate, you know, you're,
you're pretty sure that if youstudy this, you can do this job.
Um, like as a film director oras any artists, you're never

(03:51):
entirely sure that you're goingto get to do the thing that you
feel you were born to do.
Um, at least professionally, uh,there's always ways to do it on
your own.
Um, but at the same time, Imean, a lot of people, even in
their thirties who aren'tentirely sure what they want to
do with their lives and may feelunmoored in a different way.
So I think for me, I actuallyprefer knowing exactly what I

(04:13):
want to do.
Uh, even if it's a strugglecompared to not knowing where I
want to focus my energy.

Kat (04:21):
Yeah.
I think this is all veryrelatable for me.
Um, with, with regard towriting.
Um, like I knew when I was sixyears old that I wanted to be a
novelist.
Right.
But it's something where, um,and there are a couple of ways
you can do it right?
There's like you can, you canfully commit to it, um, in the

(04:41):
way that I, I feel that you haveor you can kind of like allow
other things to kind of derailyou for a while, which, which I
have definitely allowed tohappen.
But, um, I don't know.
I guess it's like a little bitdifferent maybe to me because,
um, on my end, I, I also feellike literally every life
experience I have makes me abetter writer.

(05:04):
So I sort of made peace with theidea of like, Oh, yeah, I went
to business school or, um, youknow, I studied political
science or whatever things I'vedone professionally.
Like all of those thingsactually just like add to kind
of the portfolio of things I'mcapable of writing about.
Um, whereas filmmaking anddirecting like that is a craft

(05:28):
in a different way where likeyou actually need to put in, you
know, hours and hours of work tohone it.
Um, and not that you don't needto do the same with writing, but
it's like, I don't know, likeother kind of ancillary
activities I think feed intowriting in a way where like, you
actually need to be behind thecamera or you're not going to
learn how to direct a film.
Right?

Ivy (05:48):
Yes.
Yes.
That is really true.
I mean, I also agree that themore life experience you have,
the better and artists of anydiscipline you're going to be.
So, whether that means for mebeing able to work with
different personalities or youknow, um, the way I handled
stress, like as, as a directoron a film set, I want to be a
center of calm and confidence sothat when everyone starts

(06:12):
freaking out because something'sgoing badly, they feel like they
can trust me rather than be thedirector who was making
everybody nervous becausethey're indecisive and stressed
and kind of giving out that kindof energy.
Um, but it's definitely truethat, um, I think for me, if I'm

(06:32):
writing, I can do other thingsto some extent.
Um, because to write, I need,you know, some, I mean, I need
time.
Um, I'm not great at beingcreative if I know that I have
to be somewhere in an hour.
Um, so you do need free time.
Um, and depending on yourcircumstances, you might or

(06:53):
might not have that.
But other than that, to write, Ineed, you know, pencil and paper
or a computer and myself.
Whereas to make even the mostbasic short film, you're gonna
need, you know, three to fivepeople.
Um, depending on what you'remaking, but generally, you know,
I don't do a lot of like silentone person, um, like video art

(07:17):
things, which I want to do moreof just so that I have something
to do, like in the off season.
Um, but yeah, you definitelyneed a lot more resources.
Um, and you depend on otherpeople more than if you're just
writing.

Kat (07:32):
Yeah, that makes total sense to me.
So let's talk a little bit aboutyour projects and stuff you've
worked on in the past and whatyou're working on now.

Ivy (07:41):
Yes.
Uh, so I, um, about a year ago Ireleased, um, a comedy series
called relationship, which isnow an Amazon prime in the UK,
in the U S um, they actually,they didn't censor the show
itself.
So, uh, all the swearing isstill in there.
But if you're searching for anAmazon, you have to put in
relations instead ofrelationship.

(08:01):
We kind of, which still tryingto get around that.
Um, other than that, um, a lotof branded content and short
films, um, kind of the usualstuff that you can see on my
website.
Um, I have a new short filmcoming out in a few weeks called
companion shop, which is aboutan elderly woman who buys an
artificial intelligent companionand difficulties arise trying to

(08:22):
get rid of him.
Um, and I'm currently developingtwo feature films that I hope to
um, put into preproduction maybenext year, one of them next
year.
Very cool.

Kat (08:33):
Um, so where, uh, how is companion shop going to be
distributed?

Ivy (08:39):
It'll be online for free and on the film festival
circuit.

Kat (08:42):
Great.
I'm actually really excited tosee it, especially because I
feel like we haven't talked awhole lot about that project in
particular.

Ivy (08:50):
That's true.
Yeah.
I think it was because I didn'tfind that project difficult, so
I didn't need a lot of likesupport and accountability for
it, whereas, you know, writingprojects and the kind of stuff
that's just so tedious andterrifying, I tend to talk more
about that.

Kat (09:07):
Yeah, that's interesting.
That makes a lot of sense.
Um, cool.
Um, so shifting gears a littlebit, um, I'd love if you could
talk a little bit about what atypical week, if that exists,
looks like for you and like howyou also kind of like how you
structure how you structure yourweek, um, so that you can get

(09:29):
your stuff done.

Ivy (09:31):
Yeah.
Um, typical week there is Iguess three types of weeks for
me.
Um, depending on if I'm shootingor not shooting and if I'm doing
, um, pre or post production orif I'm writing when I'm not
shooting.
So, um, when I'm shooting,that's all I think about.

(09:52):
So, um, I don't really make any,you know, plans for socializing.
I don't really pursue my otherhobbies.
Um, but those are, you know,limited amounts of time.
So a feature film might shootfor four to six weeks and then a
lot of the smaller projects thatI do, that's a few days.
Um, so yeah, during that, that'sall my life is.

(10:15):
Um, I also really believe insleep.
Um, a lot of filmmakers havethis like badge of honor that
they only slept for four hoursat night, you know.
Um, and I'm thinking, yeah, I'msure you're, you're at peak
creativity and it's super safefor you to be driving a car
right now.
Uh, yeah, I really, um, that'sone of the things that I'm

(10:36):
trying to do differently in theindustry.
It's just to dramatically reducethe stress that we think is
somehow cool.
Um, like I completely disagreewith that.
Um, what I'm not shooting ifit's advanced pre-production, so
if I'm not shooting anytimesoon, that's like a normal, I
almost want to say office jobcause so much of it is just

(10:57):
computer based, um, um, writingemails, um, you know, creating
slide decks or whatever,sometimes looking at locations,
but generally very predictable,very kind of sane when it's far
out.
Um, as it gets closer toproduction, you get busier and
then things start going wrongand there's always something
that goes wrong and needs to befixed and like it to two short

(11:19):
timeframe.
So that gets a little, um, morestressful.
Um, post production.
I hate post-production.
I don't know why.
I know some fell for somefilmmakers, the editing process
is definitely required.
Um, I don't know why.
I why I dislike it so much, butthat's one of the things that I
have to like pump myself up for.

(11:40):
Um, and then I'm either, um,sitting in with an edit, um,
whether it's with the editor orthe colorist sound designer,
composer, um, or again, youknow, nowadays so much of can be
done over email.
They send you a file, you sendyour feedback back.
Um, that can be if you'reworking to a tight deadline

(12:02):
because you want to submit to afestival or because, um, you
have a premiere date and you'renot ready yet, that can be
stressful.
Um, I think spending like 12 to16 hours in front of a computer
is like my least favorite use oftime.
I'd rather spend, you know, along day on set than in front of
a computer just because it justfeels more like real life.

(12:25):
Um, but yeah, those, again,that's, that's kind of the, the
two phases that I have shootingor not shooting.
And then there's a writing time.
And that's interesting becauseit's probably where in terms of
time, I'm spending the leastamount hands on doing the work.

(12:45):
But it's some of the highestmental strain.
So even if I'm only writing, youknow, so many hours in a day,
and I wouldn't feel radicallyhave the rest of those hours to
do other stuff.
I can't really, um, I don'tknow, switch off my writing
brain.
So when I'm writing, you know,for weeks at a time, I'm either

(13:06):
writing or being nervous aboutwriting, like I don't exist for,
for the rest of the world duringthat time.
Um, which can be hard for peopleto understand that don't have
three to pursuits, but I'mgetting better at kind of
explaining that to people.
And I think as long as whenyou're with people, you show up
fully and you're present withthem, um, and don't make them

(13:28):
feel like whatever you're doingwith them, you're actually kind
of in your head thinking aboutwork.
Um, then you know, people arefine to leave you alone.
Um, whenever you're, you'reworking.
Um, because they kind of, they,they get what they need from you
and they understand you a littlebit better as like an artist.

Kat (13:47):
Yeah.
No, I think that's a really goodpoint.
And that's something that I findI can, I sometimes find
challenging as well as like whenI need to get something done, I
just want to block off time andbe by myself and, and kind of
hunker down on it.
And I feel like when it's, Idunno, like it kinda depends on
the, it's sort of different forme from person to person.
Like there are some people whereI feel like there's like a hint

(14:08):
of paranoia there where theylike think I'm blowing them off
and it's like, um, I think somepeople genuinely do not
understand that your creativework is like as important to you
as your relationships.
Um, and um, and maybe you don't,I don't know if you have as many
of those people in your life asI do, but um, but I think yeah,
your, your point aboutexplaining it to people and

(14:30):
doing so in a way where theyactually can understand what
you're doing and where your timeis going.
And then also, I think yourpoint about being fully present
when you're actually with peopleis a really good one as well.
Yeah.
And I think that, sorry, I thinkthat does make a difference.

Ivy (14:45):
Yeah.
I think, um, what it also is it,so for me, I don't have, you
know, a time, day job that I'mdoing and then trying to steal
time to also make my art.
So that's, um, you know,something that's I guess less
challenging for me.
Um, but I think it's difficultfor people who just have a day

(15:08):
job that they don't have to takehome to understand kind of what
the Headspace is like.
So for some people they go towork from nine and then they
finish at five and then they'redone with work and then they can
focus on their personal lives.
Um, and I'm not saying that, youknow, the art life is inherently
better or anything like that.

(15:28):
I just think there's, there,there are, and there should be
different people that dodifferent things that, you know,
suit them and theirpersonalities and their
preferred lifestyles.
So I'm not, you know, talkingfrom a high horse, it's just,
it's just different.
Um, so for me, if I'm inpreproduction and so many things
are going wrong, it's not, youknow, I, I leave the production

(15:50):
office and then I'm done.
You know, there's nothing elsefor me to think about.
Cause a new, a new film isalways has so many variables.
You're probably working with newpeople, you're working at any
location, there's so many thingsyou can't influence, like the
weather.
Um, you're constantly, you know,your nervous system is kind of
an overdrive.
Um, so, and writing is the samething where it's like

(16:12):
creativity.
You can just squeeze increativity here and there.
Um, so yeah, I think it's, whensomebody doesn't have pursuits
like that, um, and they don'thave their own experience, then
it takes a lot of likewillingness and also good
communication skills from theartists', um, side to really be
able to like come to anunderstanding that makes both

(16:34):
people feel good.

Kat (16:36):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Yeah.
So a lot of your projects arekind of self-directed, where you
might not necessarily have a, anexternal deadline associated
with them.
Right.
Um, how do you find thatintrinsic motivation when there
isn't some outside person ororganization who's waiting on

(17:00):
stuff, stuff from you?

Ivy (17:02):
Um, you know, it definitely is easier when there's an
external deadline.
Um, I think part of that is whyyou and I started our
accountability partnership tohave some sort of external
accountability there.
Um, so I guess, um, a lot ofstuff that I do, people are in

(17:25):
some way waiting for.
So if, you know, I spoke to apotential agent or a manager or
producer, um, about a projectthat they might be interested
in, they're going to ask me, youknow, when's the next draft
going to be finished?
And then, um, I have not wantingto disappoint them as a really
powerful motivator because, um,my creativity is really

(17:46):
important to me.
But also I want to be thediscipline, dependable, um,
collaborator.
So, um, oftentimes there is alittle bit of an external
deadline, but I'm usually ableto set it myself.
So I think it comes withexperience that you know, how
long things are gone and goingto take.
And also, um, knowing yourselfand being able to put in like

(18:10):
buffer time for if you get sickor I don't really get Widers
blocked because, um, even thoughI do get anxious about writing,
I think writer's block is justwhen you get too much in your
head about it.
Um, and treat it as it's likebig mysterious thing rather than
just work that has a process.
And I think that I have a decentprocess now, so I don't really

(18:30):
get that anymore.
But you know, something mightcrop up, some emergency family
obligation.
Um, so it's, it's important toalways put in some buffer.
Um, I guess the intrinsicmotivation is, like I said, I
always knew I was going to be anartist.
Um, for me doing this is like myalignment with the universe.

(18:54):
So it's not really somethingthat I don't want to do and then
have to force myself to do.
Um, and I think I also, I justenjoy sharing finish work.
So if I'm writing a screenplay,there's always going to be
somebody who's going to read itfor feedback, whether that's um,

(19:16):
you know, an agent or a manageror even just a peer.
So the earlier drafts I alwayssend to my screenwriter
colleagues who are then going togive me feedback.
Um, and I always look forward tothat because the best ones they
give you positive as well asnegative note or constructive
notes.
Um, so I think having somebodyto show your stuff to when it's
finished is important for mebecause I just like that moment

(19:40):
of presenting the finishedproduct, um, and just setting,
setting external deadlines andthen making them somehow public.
So whether you post posts aboutit on social media and people
start asking you about it, um,this can be, you can shoot
yourself in the foot with thatone too.
Because on relationship I hadset deadlines that didn't factor

(20:03):
in the things that weren'twithin my control.
Um, so other people's schedulesthat changed, that I didn't
anticipate.
And then it took longer than Ithought it was going to.
And then I kind of felt badabout that.
But in general, setting anexternal deadline that people
that you, whose opinion you careabout know about, um, is really

(20:27):
powerful for me.

Kat (20:29):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Um, and then also as you weretalking, I was thinking about
the fact that you have donethese sort of like Twitter
writing sprints as well, which Ithink is actually a good segue
into, um, next question, whichwas around how you have built
and continue to build communityonline.

(20:50):
I think like when I think aboutyour social media presence, I
feel like you've done a greatjob of using social to network
with other people in theindustry, especially at a time
when you can't physically be inthe same places them.
So I'd love to talk a little bitabout that and what that's
looked like for you.

Ivy (21:09):
Yeah, that's really interesting because I think a
lot of people have the wrongidea about networking.
So a lot of people say they hatenetworking with a terrible and
networking.
And I don't really think aboutit like that.
I just think about making realrelationships with people.
Um, so I started connecting withindustry people in Los Angeles
about a year and a half ago.

(21:31):
Um, and I'm actually visitingthere next month for two weeks
and I don't have to bookaccommodation for a single night
because people from Twitter orpeople that I've met through
Twitter, um, have offered me, um, places to stay with them.
So that's like a real tangiblerelationship that I felt like
that's not somebody that I metat a mixer when we were drinking

(21:52):
wine out of plastic cups and Igave them my business card, you
know.
Um, that's, yeah, that's areally good distinction.
Yeah.
Like if that person invited youto there, like to stay at their
home, maybe you shouldreconsider.
Um, but yeah, I don't have asocial media schedule.

(22:14):
I don't have a content calendar.
I don't even look at it thatway.
Um, sometimes when, you know,I'm hunkering down for creative
work, I don't spend that muchtime there.
And then sometimes when there's,um, you know, a lot of like gaps
in between things, then I'm onthere more intensely.
But it's always about likegenuinely engaging and

(22:35):
interacting with people.
So it's not, um, you know, thetrying to become an influencer
using a million hashtags, um,kind of thing, which is fine if
that's your goal.
Um, but the way I've been usingit is just to make friends
basically.

Kat (22:53):
Yeah.
No, I love that.
I think that's, that's and itcan feel, I mean, I know the
word authenticity is like thrownaround a lot to the point where
that word doesn't really have ameaning anymore, but I think it,
it's kind of more authentic whenyou're, you're genuinely
interested in buildingrelationships versus like trying

(23:13):
to do this with like some kindof end goal in mind.

Ivy (23:16):
Oh yeah.
People can tell.
I mean there's, there's industrypeople that I've, you know,
supported through breakups formonths at a time.
I'm that person when there's ajob opening is probably more
likely to think of me then someperson who sent them an email
with a resume attached, youknow?
Yep.

Kat (23:34):
Very.
Yeah.
Very good point.
Yeah.
And it's not like you did that.
If I just, if I'm like a realfriend to you for several months
and then eventually you'll havesome opportunity drop in your
lap, that's perfect for me.
Like that's, yeah.
Manipulate things.

Ivy (23:50):
Yeah.
I think, you know, just, uh,just try to be a good person and
make, create genuinerelationships with people and
that's going to be success morethan, you know, making 120 sales
calls a day to people that, youknow, you don't know.
Definitely.

Kat (24:10):
Um, so I wanted to talk a little bit, actually, you know
what, let's, can we talk aboutPatreon a little bit before we
move on?
Yes.
Um, so can you talk about kindof how long you've been on it,
what benefits you get out of it,and, um, I also always really
like your sort of, um,dispatches for Patreon

(24:33):
supporters.
Like the, that email is, um, amust read for me.
Like, I feel like even thoughI'm obviously not a director, we
, we work on different types ofthings, but I think it's a lot
of the stuff you say is kind ofbroadly applicable, um, across
creative industries.

Ivy (24:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I've been on patriarch forabout two years.
Um, I was initially hesitantbecause, um, I wasn't sure with
just a, the long amounts oftime, the big amounts of time
that it takes to get a film offthe ground.
Um, how I was gonna structurethat whole thing because I think

(25:11):
it's easier for people that, um,create, uh, the create pieces of
work that only requiredthemselves, um, and that have a
shorter turnaround time.
So if you're a musician or likea singer songwriter and you're
only, um, you're recording onlyyourself, you're not, you,
you're not part of a band.

(25:32):
Um, or a poet or somebody whowrites short fiction, that's um,
much, I mean, your overhead isgonna be a lot lower and your
turnaround is going to be a lotshorter.
Um, so page Shawn has these two,um, options.
One is a monthly contributionand one is a person
contribution.
So every time you publishsomething, you would get a

(25:52):
certain amount of time andmoney.
Um, the ladder doesn't reallywork for me because, um, I'm
trying to make, you know,feature films that, I mean,
those take years.
So from the first idea toactually having final cut ready
in the world, I mean, if you're,if you're quick, you know, that
takes like three years, right?

(26:12):
Um, depending on a lot offactors, but it takes, it takes
more time than writing a poem,let's say.
Um, so I decided to go themonthly route and I'm actually
trying to grow it to a pointwhere, um, I can not only
produce more content, um, bymyself, but also start paying

(26:35):
other people from it.
So I'm not at an amount of moneythat I can do that, um,
regularly at the moment, but I'mstill like all of it is going
into production of new work, um,which is ultimately an
investment in, um, you know,stuff that I'm going to do
later.
So companion shop was completelyfinanced from Patreon.

(26:57):
Um, took it, it was maybe likeyears worth of contributions,
but still, I mean, last yearthat was kind of the main
project that I did.
Um, my crew, uh, my cast andcrew worked for'em for free on
that.
It was a two day shoot.
Um, but still like locationcosts, catering, transportation,

(27:19):
um, some extra equipment.
Um, yeah, money went there.
Um, and then something that Ilearned not to do over this
period of time is that at thebeginning, the perks that I was
offering were justdisproportionate to, um, to the
funds that I was able to get.
So riding those dispatches oncea week, um, depending on what,

(27:44):
so if you're a lower tier, it's,it's about accomplishments, um,
which is kind of a, this is whatI set out to do in the week.
This is what I did.
Um, these are my plans for nextweek.
So then that again, externalaccountability, um, and then a
slightly higher tier is moreabout kind of more like an essay
style, um, um, like newsletter Iguess, um, about kind of what's

(28:09):
going on with me, um, at thattime, personal growth, um, and
all of that.
Um, and I used to offer theselike videos every week and that
was just like too much.
Um, so my, like my hourly wouldhave been like a dollar an hour
or something.
And on top of everything elsethat I was already doing, that
was just too much work and Ifelt bad about thinking about

(28:32):
not doing it anymore.
But then when I pulled people,they were like, no, it's fine.
Like they weren't going tocancel their subscriptions
because I stopped doing that andI realized that, um, a lot of
people weren't actually signingup to receive the benefits that
I was offering.
They just wanted to support mycareer.
So that could be whether they,um, just really liked the type

(28:54):
of stuff that I was doing or alot of them, like I, especially
the higher tier ones.
Um, they really like this wholelike humane, respectful, sane
film industry that I'm trying tobuild in my little corner of the
world.
Um, so the, the highest patientthat I have, he actually doesn't

(29:17):
make use of the perk that'soffered at all.
He just wanted to be like asilent investor basically, and
just support me in what I wasdoing.
So I think that was a bigdistinction that it wasn't like
a straight exchange.
You give me this amount ofmoney, I give you this product,
but they just wanted to kind ofsupport my career in the longer
term kind of way.

Kat (29:36):
Yeah.
No, that makes a lot of sense tome.
I love that.
Um, yeah, that's really cool.
Actually.
I especially love your, whatyou're saying about kind of like
trying to create like a morehumane film industry, it
wouldn't have occurred to methat that's something that like
is almost kind of almost be likea marketing tool, you know,

(29:57):
which I know you're not using itthat way, but that's like an
interesting kind of side benefitof like being a decent human
being.
Right.

Ivy (30:03):
Somebody recommended that to me.
They're like, make that yourbrand.

Kat (30:09):
It's like a little sad that that's like enough of a niche
that like you can make adifference.

Ivy (30:13):
Right?
Yeah.
Like I'm not a dick about it.

Kat (30:20):
Um, so I wanted to talk a little bit about resources.
I feel like you and I trade likebook suggestions and um, apps
and things like that a lot.
So I wanted to, I wanted you toshare, um, you know, some of the
books that you've read that yourecommend, um, some of the tools
that you use to, um, to do yourwork and to get things done.

(30:41):
Um, and to manage your time.

Ivy (30:43):
Yeah.
Um, so one app that I reallylove and I don't know why it's
so special, but every time Itried to create a habit over the
last like seven years, um, it'sonly ever happened like with
this habit tracker and not theother habit tracker.
I don't know why.
It's called Coach Me and it hasa lot of features that I don't

(31:05):
actually use.
So there's this coaching featurewhere you can hire a coach, um,
to coach, um, and there's acommunity.
Um, I don't participate in anyof that.
I just literally set my goals inthere and how many times I want
to do it per week.
And then I check in and rightnow I'm on a 47 day streak of

(31:29):
yoga and meditation or somethinglike that.
Um, and it gives, like withcertain milestones to app gives
you like a high five.
I don't know if that's why.
Like there's just like constantreinforcement.
Um, and also not wanting tobreak the streak and just having
something that tracks yourstreaks with habits, um, is
really useful.

(31:49):
Um, last summer I had a really,um, ambitious, um, writing goal
that, um, I wanted to finishthis feature before I started a
new project and it was like justenough time.
So with a lot of discipline itwas possible.
Was using that app.
Um, that's the one that worksfor me.

(32:09):
Yeah.
I think just having a habittracker is a good idea.
Um, and not building too manyhabits at a time.
I think so just from a yoga andmeditation, I do them back to
back.
They're kind of the same thing,like the same habit for me.
Um, so that's one thing that Ireally like.
Um, another one is rescue time,which is an app that logs and

(32:32):
categorizes time spent on yourcomputer.
Um, and what I did, my yearlyreview for last year, I realized
that if I kept spending time onTwitter the way I did, I would
spend like five years of myentire life on Twitter if I
lived to be in my eighties.

Kat (32:50):
Wow.

Ivy (32:53):
And, and that's like, I don't sit down and spend three
hours on Twitter that's justlike here and there.
Right.
Um, but still, you know, I can,I can think of a lot of things
that I could do in five years.
So like we, like we said, youknow, I do use it in kind of a
constructive way.
I mean, I've gotten jobs throughthere.
I've gotten, you know, meetings,um, a producer of a movie that I

(33:18):
really liked contacted me, likevia DM.
Um, and we had a general meetingand she said that actually the
reason he wanted to meet me wasbecause of my Twitter.
So it's not, you know, it's partof networking, but still, you
know, I think I could still getthe same benefits while using it
more mindfully, you know?
Um, so yeah, rescue time youlike if you can see that you're

(33:42):
spending like eight times theamount of time on distracting
stuff as you are on the thingsthat you say you want to be
spending time on, you know, thatvisual, this it's just powerful.
Um, then a book that I reallyliked, which is also about
technology use isIndistractible.
And that's the first book onthis that I've read and I've

(34:06):
read quite a few that I thinkaddresses the actual underlying
issue, which is that technologyoveruse comes from our inability
or unwillingness to managedifficult emotions.
Um, yeah, yeah.
On your recommendation.
So yeah, but I think that reallyis the key, right?

(34:29):
Yeah.
Cause all of us, we still readdigital minimums.
Right.
And it wasn't, it didn't quite,you know, hit the spot from
like, you know, it was wellresearched and well argued, but
still it didn't really addresswhat the problem actually is in
my opinion.
And also it doesn't only talkabout social media and how like
social media is bad.

(34:50):
Um, it talks about distractionin general.
Cause if you're not on socialmedia, you're going to go on
YouTube.
You know, if you're not onYouTube, you're going to like
start snacking or whatever.
Um, or text someone.
But just I think, um, especiallyin creative careers but also
just as a person, one of themost important skills you can
develop is dealing with andbeing okay with, um, difficult

(35:13):
emotions and not distractingyourself as soon as you feel a
little bit uncomfortable.

Kat (35:19):
Yeah.
Um, so interestingly, I actuallydidn't read Digital Minimalism
yet, but like as you know, I'mlike a huge Cal Newport stan.
But some of the conversationthat I heard around that book in
particular, um, the, thecritiques that I saw in one was,
um, my friend Selena, who is acancer survivor and had built a

(35:41):
lot of online community.
I mean, one, she's, she'ssomeone who builds online
community in general.
Um, but I think alsospecifically with regard to, um,
connecting with other people whohad had similar diagnoses.
Um, one thing that I think shewas critical of about that book
was that he just really, CalNewport isn't on any social

(36:02):
media, fully understand.
He really doesn't understand thevalue of the relationships that
you can build there.
And so honestly, he just kind ofdidn't really have any business
writing this book because hejust has this entire, like this
huge sort of, um, like thingthat he doesn't understand.
Like he, he just doesn't grasp,um, what the thing actually is

(36:23):
that he's railing against.
Yeah.

Ivy (36:27):
He's searching something and looking at it from the
outside can be beneficial, butit's still different to, you
know, be, be in the trenchesyourself.
Um, and I mean, the main pointof digital minimalism is take a
one month detox to break thatkind of addictive compulsive
behavior, um, and find highquality pursuits of time, um, to

(36:50):
do instead.
And like learning an instrument,playing a sport or whatever.
And like that's all valid.
And I think a good thing to do.
I mean, that's what I doautomatically when I'm on set,
you know, I'm not in betweentakes checking Twitter because
there's something moreinteresting going on.
Um, but I think just being ableto sit with stuff that comes up

(37:11):
when you're being really quiet.
I mean, when I started doingyoga and meditating, like I was
trying to sobbing in the middleof the meditation and for like
no reason, um, because stuff wascoming up that I wasn't
rationally dealing with.
And I feel like, you know, I'mvery aware of my feelings and
I'm very self aware and I'm not,you know, I don't shy away from
that.
But still when things get reallyquiet and you're alone with your

(37:32):
thoughts and you want to checkyour phone but you don't, it's
really interesting what comes upthen.

Kat (37:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love that.
That's a really good point.
Um, I think very relatable forprobably everyone.

Ivy (37:46):
We're all human.
It's all like, I think that is avery, very universal experience.

Kat (37:52):
Yeah, no, it absolutely is.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think likein general, like that's, that's
kind of the central problem thatpeople have with just being
present in their lives at all.
Right?
And so I think pointing to yourphone or other digital
distractions is kind of theobvious thing that we think
about, um, based on how theworld is today.

(38:14):
But I think it can be true ofreally anything that you're
using to numb out.
Um, yeah.

Ivy (38:20):
Well, what I find really interesting between you and me
is that, so I'm like hypermortality aware, right?
Like a little, not a little likeway too much.
So I'm constantly like, I mightdie any second.
Um, so I'm very aware of likehow I want to spend my life and
still even me as somebody whowas very rationally aware of the

(38:42):
fact that we're all going to dieand nothing is guaranteed.
I'm still going to spend anafternoon in front of Netflix
rather than at the dog beach.
You know what I mean?
It still happens.
And you, for awhile, this waslike a year ago or something,
but you had this app calledWeCroak that wasn't like

(39:03):
notifications to remind you thatyou're going to die one day.

Kat (39:07):
Yeah.
And you know what, I still havethe app, but it doesn't like,
doesn't work anymore orsomething like it stopped
alerting me that I was going todie.
So, um, yeah.
Well, and unfortunately I've hada couple of recent deaths of
close to me, so I'm, I'm, I'mactually feeling very death
aware right now.
Um, and uh, and it's interestingcause I'm already seeing kind of

(39:30):
how that's shifting, um, how Ithink about, you know, where my
time goes and, um, and also sortof kind of like what I, what I'm
willing to put up with fromother people and like where my
tolerance sort of ends forbullshit or like things I don't
want to deal with.
Um, so I mean I think that's, Ithink that's that kind of death

(39:53):
awareness is going to beprobably a theme, um, of this
year for me.
Um, just because like, and I, Iactually haven't really, as of
as of this recording, but Ithink I may actually re I may
actually publish another soloepisode between now and when I
publish this episode, um, whereI do talk about it, but like my,

(40:16):
you know, you know all of this,but for anyone who's listening
who doesn't know, um, my 26 yearold cousin passed away suddenly
the first week of the year and um, and that was on the tail of
losing another friend to ovariancancer in the second half of
December.
So it's been, it's been aninteresting few weeks and it's

(40:37):
like, there's been like a lot ofsort of like both internal
conversation in my own headaround priorities and goals and
you know, what it means tocreate meaning in my life.
And then also like, I've justbeen talking to a lot of people
about similar things recently.

(40:58):
Um, so moving on, I thoughtmaybe we could talk a little bit
about our accountabilitypartnership.
I think just like they have likelet people know like what that
can look like because I thinksomething that's really
interesting is, so we've beenworking together for two years.
We are on different continentsand we've never actually been in
the same room together.

(41:20):
But as I was, I was talking tosomeone last night and I
mentioned you and I was like,yeah, so Ivy and I've worked
together for two years.
We've never physically met, butI would say like, you're one of
my best friends, like, you know,as much about my life as pretty
much anyone else in it, you know, um, it's really interesting to

(41:41):
like have that kind of deeprelationship without being able
to be like physically presenttogether.

Ivy (41:49):
And Kat, remind me, where did you and I connect?

Kat (41:52):
Um, I think we originally met in the, um, the Secret
Bullicorn Facebook group, whichwas right.
So Jen, Jen Dziura who, um, runsthe website, Get Bullish, had
this, um, I guess it stillexists, but it was a Facebook
group, um, a private Facebookgroup for followers of her work.

(42:16):
And it's interesting.
So that's actually, I've met alot of people through that.
So I'm also in a mastermindgroup here in New York called
the Valkyrie collective.
And I met all of those womenthrough that group as well.
And now they're like my in reallife friends who I see with some
regularity.
And like, it's so like, I mean,I think the theme of this
conversation has been likebuilding digital community.

(42:39):
Um, and I've like really seenhow that's played out in my own
life.
Um, but yeah, so I think that'show we first met.
And then we started followingeach other on social.
And then I, um, I took this, um,so there's, there's this, um,
company called One Month thatdoes these 30 day, um, courses

(43:02):
where like, you can learnwhatever skill in a month.
So, um, a lot of them are hardskills like HTML, CSS, um, or,
um, you know, other like codinglanguages, whatever.
But then he's also the, uh, thecofounder of the company.
Chris Castiglione is like verygoal centric, um, which

(43:26):
definitely appeals to me.
And, um, he did at the beginningof 2018 offered this kind of
like one-off sort of like goalsetting for 2018 course.
And one of the things that hesuggested was finding an
accountability partner.
And I was like, and it'sinteresting, I'd had had
conversations with a couple ofpeople about potentially doing

(43:48):
an accountability partnershipand then I was like, yeah, but
that person's gonna flake.
Like that's, I was like, I can'teven get this person, like on my
calendar to like have dinneragain.
Like, this is not going to work.
I was like, but I think thiscould be beneficial to me
because I do want to like reallybuckle down this year and like
get serious about what I'mworking on.

(44:09):
And then I don't like, I don'tremember how this idea occurred
to me, but I, as soon as I waslike, Oh, wait, Ivy, that's the
person.
And then I reached out to you.
And fortunately you were onboard with it.

Ivy (44:21):
It was so funny because I was like obsessed with you.
Yeah.
I had read like the entirety ofyour blog.
Um, and I, and I remember that,you know, I had kind of toyed
around with the idea ofaccountability partners myself
and had tried it like I thinktwice, um, two or three times,
but I distinctly rememberthinking that you were actually

(44:45):
a person that I would care toimpress.

Kat (44:50):
I feel like I'm like the, I'm the dead weight in this
relationship.
So all of this is very nice andfeels a little unwarranted.
I don't know.

Ivy (44:57):
That was just at the beginning, like by now, I'm just
like, ah, sorry.

Kat (45:06):
Um, no, that's so nice though.
Like, because I just thinkyou're like, your work is, it's
really nice that you likeactually liked my work because I
think your work is like sounbelievably great.
Um, and um, I was, I was, like Isaid, I was talking to someone
about you last night and thatwas talking about, um, your film
Creme Brulee in particular.
And I was like, I can't wait tosee that movie get made.

(45:28):
Like, I, um, like that's, that'smy favorite of your projects, I
think.

Ivy (45:34):
Yeah.
You know, that's everyone'sfavorite.
Um, it's like, it's about foodand sex and like accomplishments
, like those three things,right?

Kat (45:45):
Yeah.

Ivy (45:45):
Yeah.
Um, that's actually the onethat's actually the one that I'm
hoping is going to get made forus.
So you might be in luck.
There's been a bit of intereston working on a rewrite this
month, um, just coming alongwell, so you might be lucky.

Kat (45:59):
They're amazing.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Um, so yeah.
And so like, just to dive in alittle bit on like what, what
this looks like.
So we do a Skype call every twoweeks.
Um, when we're on top of ourshit, sometimes we don't stick
to our schedule as well as weshould.
Um, and we kind of spend an hourtalking through, um, well in

(46:23):
theory we spend an hour talkingthrough our goals and like what,
what short term, um, tasks areon our plates.
Um, and then sometimes we justspend an hour like talking about
dudes, which isn't totallyirrelevant to our work, I guess.
So.

Ivy (46:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But like it is possible to like,and then I mean, and we, we text
and stuff in between the, thecalls.
Um, but I guess my point islike, it is possible to like
have a functioning partnershipwhere you're act, you're like
actually helping each other getshit done.

(47:02):
Um, and it like it may lookdifferent if you are working
with someone who's in the samecity as you or someone you see
on a regular basis.
Um, but I dunno, I wondersometimes if like maybe this
works better because we don'tsee each other like every day.
Um, so I think it's like, causeI think it would be, it would

(47:23):
almost maybe like be a littlebit less special or like harder
to, um, harder to stick with.
So I think it's easier to pushthings off when it's like, like,
so like we have a standing dateevery other Tuesday morning, we
push that off.

Kat (47:37):
Then it's like, we don't talk for a month, but if I, if
it were someone that I, youknow, maybe see at my day job
and work with on a regularbasis, I think it's a lot easier
to be like, Oh, well we weregoing to meet tomorrow but we
can just meet, you know,Wednesday instead or whatever it
is.
Yeah.
And like we do that as much andI, I mean I look at like the
work that I've produced in thepast couple of years and like it

(47:59):
definitely wouldn't havehappened without you.
Like I wrote, I wrote a fullnovel in 2018 I wrote 270 pages
of a different novel last year.
Like, I mean I, and I feel likeprior to our working together, I
just like wasn't, my creativeoutput was like much, much

(48:22):
smaller than what it is today.

Ivy (48:24):
Yeah.
I think it, I think also justsurrounding yourself with more
people who are living the lifethat you want to live more off,
I guess.
Um, it's just like automaticallymore, not motivating, but it
just kind of go through osmosis.
You just start being more likethat, like if you want to, I

(48:44):
don't know, go to the gym moreoften and find friends who go to
the gym a lot, you know, andthen it just becomes normal to
eat healthy and kind of doactive days rather than, you
know, meeting for Netflix andsnacks or something.
And the same thing withcreativity.
If you live somewhere wherepeople are always making
something, then you know, itjust becomes like a normal thing

(49:06):
to just be making stuff and ittakes that anxiety away as well,
you know?

Kat (49:12):
Yeah.
No, and that's a really goodpoint.
And like I, and I think aboutkind of the other sort of
activities that I've done moreof to support my, my creativity
and it's, um, you know, going toa lot of Creative Mornings
events, um, and things like thatwhere it might not be directly
related to like the particularart form that, that I want to

(49:35):
do, but think doing likeliterally anything where you're
making something support thatsupports creativity as a habit.
Yeah.
And, um, and I think doing thatand getting into it as a daily
practice, um, that paysdividends in a way that maybe
isn't immediately clear, butover time it's very easy to see

(49:57):
how it kind of changeseverything.

Ivy (49:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you know one thing that I waswondering is, do you feel like
because we've become friendsover these two years now that
the accountability feels less,um, I don't know, like a little
less accountable because we aremore lenient with each other.

(50:18):
You know, that's probably fair.

Ivy (50:21):
Because I don't know if it's somebody that I'm only
talking to in a work context.
I'm like, Oh, I, you know, Imissed this deadline because I
have so much shit going on.
They're going to be like, welleveryone has shit going on, you
know, do your work.
Whereas you and I were like, Oh,you have a lot of stuff going
on, you know?

Kat (50:38):
Yeah, I actually know what the stuff is.
It's not some vague thing thatyou're pointing to that's over
in the corner.

Ivy (50:44):
Yeah.
I think it's important to find abalance there because like shame
is not a motivator for a humanbeing for a sustained amount of
time.
Like, I mean shame is, you know,had its play, so much evolution.
Uh, if you're doing somethingthat's harming others, then
yeah, you should be expelledfrom the tribe, that kind of

(51:06):
thing.
Um, but you know, if you tell me, um, I can't actually, I can't
think of anything that like iscool to say on a, on a public
podcast, but let's say last weekI wanted to write five days out
of the week, but I had ablinding migraine so I only
wrote, um, I think two or threedays out of the week.

(51:29):
If you said to me, you know,your piece of shit, you know,
sit down in front of yourcomputer, it doesn't matter if
you can't see anything, youknow, get those words on that.
But that would, I've not talkedto you again.

Kat (51:40):
Yeah, I think that would be reasonable because like a
migraine is a real impediment togetting things done.
Like, you can't have a migraineand sit there and stare at a
screen.

Ivy (51:50):
Yeah, exactly.
But at the same time, when it'smore the day to day staff, I've
actually, like over the lastweek, I said to people twice
that like, man, I could bespending my life minutes making
art for the ages and instead I'mdealing with, you know, just
during vaguely, it's more theday to day stuff that everybody

(52:12):
is dealing with.
I think it's, it's a fine linebecause on one hand, yes, you
need to deal with your life.
Um, and I don't think thatproductivity should be the
mother, the measure of how wellyou lived your life.
Um, you should also have enjoyedsome of it, but, um, it's, yeah,

(52:32):
it's, it's important.
Like you're never gonna havecompletely like, smooth sailing
for any extended amount of time.
So I think it's important tofind that balance between, you
know, being compassionate withyourself and others for, you
know, when stuff's going on thatreally prevents them from doing
the work, but also havingenough, I guess, toughness to,

(52:56):
um, to, to help yourself or helpother people develop.
The skills that they need, um,to, you know, get better at, you
know, pursuing their goalsagainst a headwind.

Kat (53:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's kind of thatthing of like, um, like gaining
flexibility through structure.
Right?
So like you set structure sothat you have a way of getting
shit and then when those sort ofexternal things come in or life
happens or whatever it is, likethen you, you have flexibility

(53:33):
built in because you know thatlike you've already been doing
the thing that you were supposedto be doing.
Yeah, exactly.
It won't derail you completelybecause once you're done dealing
with whatever it is, you canjust jump back into that
structure.

Ivy (53:49):
Yeah.
And one thing that made a hugedifference to me in my, in my
writing, I've written more sincethen, then I probably have like
maybe in a month, well then inthe long time before, I don't
want to say like my entire life,but um, so I, you know, wasn't
dealing with a lot of life stuffand I found it really difficult

(54:11):
to focus on writing, but writingand producing screenplays and
moving my film career forwardwas the way to get out of, you
know, about situation.
So it was kind of, this feltlike a stalemate because there
was so much stress from thesituation.
But to get out of it I needed toignore the stress and kind of be
creative and being creativeunder stress is pretty
difficult.

(54:32):
Um, so I was talking to this,um, really experienced writer
and he recommended that insteadof seeing the writing as work
and as a chore to see it as anescape from everything else
that's going on.
So that's something I get to do.
You know, I have to deal withall of this crap all day.
But then when I sit down towrite, I finally, you know, I

(54:54):
can go into the story stuffthinking about everything else
and just enjoy kind of thatescape.
And that made a huge differenceto me because before that I
tried to create more idealcircumstances for me to do my
work and instead I was now itfelt like a treat, you know, or
I was trying to make you feelmore more like that and it was

(55:16):
more something that, you know,you get to do as, you know,
reward for weathering everythingelse.
Um, and making it feel more likeplay I think was also a big deal
for me because when you havelooming deadlines and like this
is your work and this is youridentity and it's been my
identity my entire life.
Because I was always the artistand the writer and the

(55:38):
storyteller.
Just being able to like stepaway from that a little bit and
say, I'm going to establish adaily writing habit because then
it's act, there's less pressureon any one session to be good.
If I'm only writing when I havea deadline, then you know,
those, I don't know, 30 sessionshave to be really good.
Whereas if I'm writing everyday, I'm making forward progress

(56:01):
no matter what.
So then if there's one offsession, the deal I have with
myself is I have to sit down andI have to be writing and doing
my best while the timer's on.
And then when I'm done with thesession, what the result is,
isn't a women in my control.
Um, as long as I showed up, Ican Mark it.
As, you know, I've reached mygoal for the day.

(56:20):
Yeah.
I love that.
That's really great.
Um, yeah, especially, Iespecially love your point about
, um, how you, if you, if you'redoing something intermittently,
there's more chance of likeputting pressure on it.

(56:42):
And I think you can get veryneurotic around it and very
precious about your work.
Um, whereas like, honestly themost important thing is to just
sit down and do it.
And, um, and that's something Ithink I've had to contend with
over the past couple of years.
And I think I've, I've alsogotten to a point where I can
just kind of sit down and do thething and, and then worry about
whether it's good later.

(57:03):
Um, because like really the onlything, and I think I wrote this
in a blog post at some point,like really the only thing you
can control is whether the workgets done.
You can't control necessarilythe quality of it.
I mean, you can hone your craft,you can work to get better.
But like in any particularsitting, like you can't
necessarily control whether youwrite the best thing of your
life or not.

(57:23):
Yeah.
You can't control what otherpeople's responses to it are
going to be, whether you're ableto publish it.
Um, it's like that.
But what you can control is didI sit down, open up my laptop or
open up a notebook and grab mypen and like actually do the
writing.
So I love that.

Ivy (57:40):
Yeah.
And that's the, that's the otherthing besides managing difficult
emotions for me is I'm takingfull responsibility for the
things that you can control.
And there's a lot of things thatyou could not control.
Um, but that doesn't excuse youfrom not doing, you know, the
other stuff that is within,within your circle of control.

(58:01):
I've had control so many timesin here it, so it's fine.
Okay, cool.
Um, so even with a lot ofexternal circumstances, like for
me, writing used to be such alike sacred, Holy thing where,
you know, I had all theserituals around it and that's
fine.
Like it's nice to have rituals,you know, I like my writing
room.

(58:21):
It has to smell good.
There has to be like a centercandle or something going on.
Um, but I don't know, let's saythere's construction next door,
you know, I could then say,well, the circumstances aren't
ideal, so I'm going to shut mylaptop and it's not my fault.
I just can't run.
Then I complained about, youknow, not having made it as a
wider yet, or I can go to acoffee shop or I can put in

(58:42):
headphones and just do itanyway.
And the part that I kind ofcontrol is do I show up or not?
You know?
So I, I show up and see whathappens next.

Kat (58:50):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that's like aminor form of resistance, right?
It's like, let me find like 18excuses for why you didn't do
the thing because I'm actuallyjust afraid to do the thing.

Ivy (58:59):
Yeah.
And it has never happened that Isat down and often happens that
I sit down and I'm like, I'mgoing to have zero ideas today.
Like it's, it's just a bad life.
I'm off, I can't focus.
And that's fine.
So I sit down and have a sessionwhere I write without a lot of
focus, but usually, you know, 1020 minutes in, I'm going to have

(59:20):
at least one that moves thingsforward and letting go of the
perfectionism that this droughthas to be the best one.
It's like, well, no, that's whatkept me from finishing one
feature that I was writing forsuch a long time is because it
was so close and people wererequesting it that I thought,
all right, well this one has tobe perfect.
Um, no, you just make it betterthan before.

(59:42):
Send it out for feedback,incorporate the feedback, send
it out, you know, just breakingit down into smaller, manageable
steps rather than making it, youknow, this has to be my
masterpiece.

Kat (59:52):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, so before we wrap up, Ithought we'd talk a little bit
about your dog.
Um, so Eli is like the cutestdog on the planet.
Um, so can we talk a little bitabout, um, how he came into your

(01:00:13):
life, um, what having a dog hasdone for your creativity and
anything else you think everyoneneeds to know.

Ivy (01:00:21):
Oh man.
How much time you got?
Um, so I got Eli about four anda half years ago when I was
saying I would love to have adog.
I want to have a dog so bad.
And then, you know, after anamount of time doing that, I
realized that I'm an adult now Ican get a dog if I want one.

(01:00:42):
Um, and so I did, um, I did alot of research on the kind of
dog that would fit with my life.
Actually Eli was supposed to betravel sized, but because he's a
mixed breed, um, he's a bitbigger than he was supposed to
be.
So that kind of, um, changed theplan.
I had a little bit, but youknow, that's life.

(01:01:03):
Um, and I think he's the perfectdog.
I mean, I can, you know, takehim outside and on hikes and
stuff that you couldn't do witha smaller dog.
Um, for a while.
We went like jogging together.
Um, so yeah, he's, um, um, to meshe's perfect, you know, there's
nothing I would change about it.
And a lot of people were like,well, how are you going to do

(01:01:26):
that as a filmmaker?
And I mean, there is some truthto that, but not because of the
logistics, it just because ofthe emotional aspects of it.
So, um, last year I was on aproduction for 11 weeks where I
had to be out of town and Ithought that I was going to be
able to take him into theproduction office with me, which

(01:01:47):
would have been fine, but then Iwasn't because, um, he wasn't
allowed for, for a few reasons.
Um, so I had to leave him withmy family and only saw him on
the weekends for 11 weeks.
Like I spent 400 euros a monthjust to be able to see my dog on

(01:02:10):
the weekend.

Kat (01:02:12):
I remember that.
Yeah.

Ivy (01:02:13):
I wouldn't, you know, I'd wrap up after like five days of
production, get on a train toget to like get home late on
Friday so that I could spendlike the maximum amount of time
with my puppy.
Um, but, you know, ultimately isit, well, it was to create a
better life for us.

(01:02:35):
Um, so yeah, the ha and, um,when I was doing a lot of like
branded content and travelingaround the UK a lot, um, I, it
depended on what I was doing.
So if it was just for the day,you know, you take him to
daycare and he has a great day,like romping around with artists
, other doggies and they'resupervised and that's fine.

(01:02:58):
Um, if it's for a longer, if,if, if I wasn't like a three day
shoot or something, um, I wouldsee if I could either bring a
person with me who would thenlook after him there or if there
was like a good licensed insuredwith good reviews, um, daycare
near where I was shooting, andthen I would have him in the

(01:03:18):
hotel with me, um, overnight andthen drop him off at like doggy
daycare in the morning, go dothe shoot and pick him back up.
They would get exercise, um,with the people that were
looking after them.
So, um, nowadays, you know,there's so many, there's so many
dog obsessed people that there'sa lot of businesses catering to

(01:03:38):
them as well, so that, you know,worked, it depends on your dog.
You know, some dogs are finebeing left at home, um, for a
few hours.
Some dogs are like super clingy,some dogs are, I don't know,
intense barkers and can't beleft alone for a minute.
Eli is pretty cool, like he canbe left alone, but I just feel

(01:04:00):
bad.
Um, like I'd never leave himalone for more than a few hours
at a time.
Um, so I think, again, this isan attitude thing.
It's like I want to have a dogand I want to be a filmmaker.
How do I make those things worktogether?
Um, a lot of people don't getdogs because they're like, well,
it's impossible.

(01:04:20):
Um, dogs are only something youcan have if you're like a four
person family or, you know, theygive away a dog because the
landlord doesn't allow dogs.
We'll move, man.
Like I move 10 times, 10 timeswithin two years in London,
within London because I couldn'tfind a permanent place to live
with my dog, but I was going tobe homeless before I was going

(01:04:41):
to give up my dog.
Um, so before I started thisagain, life happened before I
got him.
I had, um, I had planned where Iwas gonna live, but then that
didn't work out.
And then suddenly you're like,Oh no.
Um, cause finding, you know, ahouse here or, or an apartment
to live with the dog in Londonis hard because there's so much

(01:05:03):
demand for housing that theydon't have to make any
exceptions.
Um, but again, you know, there'sways to figure it out.
I never, it all depends on yourpriorities.
You know, I did research like ayear, um, before I got a dog,
what kind of breed I was goingto get, what I was going to do
if I was traveling abroad, whatwas I going to do if I was

(01:05:25):
traveling abroad for a longtime?
Um, you know, there's alwaysoptions to do stuff.
If you, if you decide thatsomething's impossible, you
don't even look for the waysthat it could work.
And I've never been the kind ofperson who's like, Oh, well that
sounds hard, so I'm not going todo it.
If you're a filmmaker with thatmindset, you're not going to
last very long.

(01:05:45):
So yeah.
Um, so whatever life I make, Ialso think about, um, his
quality of life.
Like 100% of his experience oflife depends on me, you know, so
that I take that responsibilityvery seriously.
So Eli actually has a bucketlist.

(01:06:05):
He's been to six countries.
Um, every day I make sure thatthere's something special in
that day for him because no dayis guaranteed.
You know, I hope he lives to be15 or older, but I don't know
that, and even that is a veryshort amount of time.
Um, so yeah, for me, he's apriority and I make everything,

(01:06:26):
everything work, um, in a waythat fits all of my priorities
and values.
Um, and it's possible, you know,if I get it, I'm shooting for
six weeks, I'm going to find agood daycare or somebody to look
after him.
Um, when I'm in an office, I'mgoing to ask if I can take him
with me and if I can, you know,some I'll find somebody to look
after him and if there's nobodyto look after him, then you

(01:06:49):
know, you're not going to takethe job.
But that's never happened.
Like it's never happened that Icouldn't find anybody that I
trusted to look after him in agood way and had to turn down
the job.
Like that's not once has thathappened.

Kat (01:07:02):
Yeah.
That's great.
Um, well I will be sure toinclude some photos so that
everyone can see how adorable heis.
Although I feel like it's hardto get like the full extent of
his personality unless you seevideos of him or, um, if he is
in the background during one ofour Skype calls,

Ivy (01:07:24):
I feel like I should really be making more like video
content with him.
I just need to come up with somelike concepts like a day in the
life of Eli or like Eli goes toa job interview.
I should probably do more, morestuff like that.

Kat (01:07:36):
Yeah.
No, I think there's, there are alot of directions you could go
with that.
So it seems like for years I'vehad this idea of doing like a
web series about my cat calledBillable Meowers and it's about
cat lawyers.
But one I need like more cats orI guess I need to like dress him
in costumes or something and mycat is such an asshole.

(01:07:57):
He would never stand for any ofthis.

Ivy (01:07:58):
Eli loves attention.
He's a showbiz dog.

Kat (01:08:02):
Yeah, I dunno.
That seems like an untappedresource right there.
Um, so Ivy, thank you so much.
I feel like this has been such arewarding conversation for me
personally, which is so thanksfor, thanks for starting my day
off on the right foot.
It'd be like really valuable forthe audience.

(01:08:22):
And I feel like you've shared somuch across like, um, just like
a breadth of topics.
And like, even though I, you andI talk about like everything,
like I, I feel like I'm still,like, I, I feel like I've gotten
even more out of this than Iexpected to, which is awesome.
So thank you.

Ivy (01:08:43):
It's true.
Um, all right.

Kat (01:08:45):
Thank you so much and I will probably talk to you soon.
Yeah.
Bye.

Ivy (01:08:51):
Bye.

Outro (01:08:55):
So that's this week's episode of How to Be Creative.
As always, you can find shownotes, including a complete
episode transcript and links toeverything discussed at
howtobecreative.org.