149. Balancing World Building Elements for the Reader Experience with Jasper Ezekiel

“I'm always really fascinated by what gets trimmed off the edges. And because there's gold in there sometimes. And why would a creative professional choose to include this, but not that?” -- Jasper Ezekiel 

In this How To Write the Future episode, host Beth Barany chats with speculative fiction writer Jasper Ezekiel, and talks about what parts of our story worlds we include in our fiction and what gets left out including balancing story elements for the reader experience. 

About Jasper Ezekiel

Jasper Ezekiel is a queer author from the SF Bay Area. He's a jack of all trades, writing poetry, non-fiction, fiction, and plays. He's also a visual artist who specializes in illustration, a fiber artist with dreams of being a pattern creator, and a big ol' goofball. His first book of poetry, Good, Clean Mania was published in 2023. You can find it on multiple platforms here: https://books2read.com/u/3Gp5gO

Social media links:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/s8nicangel/

My personal Substack: https://jasperezekiel.substack.com/

My writing Substack:

https://jasperezekielk.substack.com/

ABOUT THE HOW TO WRITE THE FUTURE PODCAST

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers and get curious about the future of humanity.

ABOUT BETH BARANY

Beth Barany, an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist, teaches novelists how to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, teacher, consultant, and developmental editor.

RESOURCES

GET HELP WITH YOUR WORLD BUILDING - START HERE

Free World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

Sign up for the 30-minute Story Success Clinic with Beth Barany: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/story-success-clinic/

Get support for your fiction writing by a novelist and writing teacher and coach. Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c. 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

Questions? Comments? Send us a text!

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CONNECT
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EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://get.descript.com/0clwwvlf6e3j
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Episode Transcript

BETH BARANY (00:00):
Hi everyone.

(00:00):
Welcome to How To Write theFuture.
I'm your host, Beth Barany, andI have a special episode for you
today.
My episodes are primarily forscience fiction and fantasy
writers, so today you're gonnalisten in on a conversation that
I have with speculative fictionwriter Jasper Ezekiel, and
talking about what parts of ourstory worlds do we include in

(00:23):
our fiction and what gets leftout.
Enjoy.

JASPER EZEKIEL (00:26):
I actually have another kind of concept I want
to throw at you that has to dowith world building, which is:
How much work do we do on thingsthat may or may not be included?
So one of the things I've alwaysreally struggled with world
building is finding what isrelevant to the world and what
is just not because whenbuilding a world, it's really

(00:49):
easy to just go out and out andbuild these like complicated
spider webs basically.
How do you make the decision onwhat to choose to build for your
world?

BETH BARANY (01:02):
That's a great question.
I have thoughts.
I'm a very intuitive writer.
So in my early drafts, I'm justputting in whatever occurs to
me.
When I'm editing and I have noanswer to the question that
critique partners and betareaders ask me, I write
backstory.
Then I come back into themanuscript and I try something.

(01:24):
I wrote some backstory.
And then I ask that very samequestion: What is relevant to
the story right now?
And then I make a guess and Iput something in that feels
right.
Feelings, very intuitive.
Then I put it in and then I sendit back out to the beta readers
and critique partners and seehow they respond.

And it is also like (01:43):
What is going to move the story forward?
So I can talk more about thatand, if you have any specifics
that you want to share or I canjust use examples from my own
writing.
Because I can tell you, I have50,000 words worth of backstory
on a book that's 150,000 wordsthat isn't in the book.

JASPER EZEKIEL (02:04):
Yeah.
That's one of the things that'salways really fascinated me
about the creative process islike deleted scenes in movies.
I've been watching a lot of WillFerrell movies, and in the end
they always show the bloopersand when they're riffing on
jokes, how they do the joke overand over in different ways.
And so it's here's the versionsof the joke that didn't make it
in the movie.
I'm always really fascinated bywhat gets trimmed off the edges.

(02:27):
And because there's gold inthere sometimes.
And why would a creativeprofessional choose to include
this, but not that?
Is it their decision?
Is it their audience's decision?
Is it in a movie's case, thedirector or the producer's
decision?
It's really interesting to me.

BETH BARANY (02:45):
Yeah, that is fascinating.
I think we start to get into thereal nitty gritty as someone
who's edited a ton of otherpeople's work as well as my own
work, it's again, I come back tothis kinesthetic sense of is the
energy going upward or is theenergy like plunk?
Does it just stop,'cause thereader experience, we want it to
have this forward movement.

(03:06):
And I even noticed it when as Istart to give direction on
editing my short film.
I can feel oh, we're moving, andthen things stop.
Oh, we're moving things.
So we don't ever want a stop inour story.
We want it always to be feelinglike things are moving forward,
even in quiet moments, even whenthere's no action or no
dialogue.
So that's my barometer, personalbarometer.

(03:27):
And I also have readers here forX experience.
Does what I have on the pagematch that experience?
So I've made a decision aboutwhat that X experience is, and
it, again, it's a feeling.
I'll often say in the past, acompelling read.
I'm like, wow.
It's always a compelling read,no matter the book.

And in this book it's often (03:46):
How do I keep people engaged, moving
forward and invested,emotionally caring?
So anything that hinders that,stops that, interrupts that,
gets cut.
Even if I've labored over it forhours and days and years.
Cause at the end of the day,it's this overall experience
we're creating.
And then I test it.

(04:07):
That's what the beta readers arefor, and the critique partners.
And then I do another read, havepeople, hopefully strangers who
haven't yet read the book, alsoread the book toward the end
before I publish to make sureeverything is happy.
Like the only critique theymight have is, I am so angry at
your villain.
I'm like--

JASPER EZEKIEL (04:23):
Yeah, That's a good one to get.
I would feel really pleased ifsomebody said that to me,

BETH BARANY (04:28):
Or, oh, I was so rooting for her and, Ooh, I
really love your secondarycharacter.
Can she have her own story?
And I'm like-

JASPER EZEKIEL (04:34):
Yes.

BETH BARANY (04:35):
Now they're invested.
Now there's nothing about thecraft.
No spelling errors, no egregioustypos stopping them and.
Yeah.
And I also am measuring that asI, in this stage with the beta
readers,'cause I'm in finalphase now and I'm paying
attention to what my betareaders go, oh, I think you need
a glossary.
Or, I didn't know what theseSpanish words meant.

(04:57):
And I'm like, okay, yeah I ampresupposing people have some
Spanish under their belt.

BOTH (05:02):
Yeah,

BETH BARANY (05:02):
I need to deal with that somehow.
And It's a lot of testing.
A lot of testing.
Yeah.
I know they do that with film.
And I'll be doing that with myfilm and with TV.
They probably have a lot ofexperienced cooks in the kitchen
helping with the same thing.
That's it for this weekeveryone.
If you have any questions or youwould like to get your question
answered live in an episode, besure to check out our Story

(05:26):
Success Clinic where you cansign up and we can have a
conversation that we share withthe world and you can get some
live coaching.
So be sure to contact me throughthe podcast, how to write the
future.com.
That's it for this week,everyone.
Write long and prosper.