Tony Award-winning actress Lena Hall shares profound insights about the acting process, from combating self tape burnout to finding chemistry with lauded costars like Jon Hamm on Apple TV's YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS.
Alongside host Robert Peterpaul, this episode covers:
- How cold reads can be a performer's secret weapon.
- Why external success (like her Tony award) never guarantees internal peace.
- What true onscreen chemistry between actors is really rooted in.
- How she built an authentic performance of a character with mental health challenges.
- The magic of working with superstar Jon Hamm and more!
Lena Hall is perhaps best known for her Tony-winning turn in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. She’s also appeared on Broadway in Kinky Boots, 42nd Street, Tarzan and the revival of Little Shop of Horrors. Onscreen, she rocked 4 seasons of AMC’s SNOWPIERCER and recently returned to TV with the aforementioned YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS. Lena plays Jon Hamm's sister in the hit Apple series, which has already been renewed.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
How we Roll a podcast foractors by Casting Networks.
(00:28):
Hello actors, it's yourfriendly neighborhood host,
robert Peterpaul, popping intothe stream to share something a
little different this week.
Some of my favorite actorhomework is consuming content
seeing a friend in a show,watching a new series, and
recently we loved watching yourFriends and Neighbors on Apple.
(00:50):
Did you see it?
I realize that could sound odd.
If you didn't know that was aTV show.
I was lucky enough to chat withone of the show's stars, who
also happens to be aTony-winning Broadway powerhouse
for my other podcast, the Artof Kindness.
Over on that sunny street ofthe podcast world, we chat with
guests who use their platform tocreate a brighter business.
(01:13):
I'd love for you to check itout.
Anyway, I'm talking about LenaHall.
She dropped spoonfuls ofincredible acting insights that
I think you'll eat up.
So I cut together a new editand I'm sharing it here, hoping
it inspires you.
Friend, lena Hall is perhapsbest known for her Tony-winning
(01:37):
turn in Hedwig and the AngryInch.
She also appeared on Broadwayin Kinky Boots, 42nd Street,
tarzan and the revival of LittleShop of Horrors.
On screen, lena rocked fourseasons of AMC's Snowpiercer and
recently returned to televisionwith the aforementioned your
Friends and Neighbors.
(01:57):
Lena plays Jon Hamm's sister inthe hit Apple TV series, which
has already been renewed.
We dive into audition anxiety,the upside of cold reads,
self-tape burnout which is realand how letting go can lead to
breakthroughs.
It's really special to hearsomeone of her caliber struggle
(02:17):
with a lot of the same stuff weall do, whether you're fresh out
of drama school, whether you'refresh out of drama school, or
whether you're fresh out ofdrama school or deep into your
third callback this week.
This one's for you, friend.
Here's how we roll with LenaHall.
(02:40):
We're rolling, hall, we'rerolling.
I think we already had a littlecameo from.
Is that a dog in the back?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, that's my dog child.
That's Dagny.
Oh hi, baby girl.
Yeah, she's huge, she's a GreatDane Labrador mix, so she's a
giant.
Giant dog.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
We might have a cameo from one of my cats.
They're not giant and they'renot dogs, but they will try and
bust through the door.
So just to warn you, lena.
But I have to say I'm soexcited to talk to you.
I'm such a big fan of your workand I think obviously I admire
your talent.
But I've just also reallyadmired over the years the way
you speak so openly, like when Ithink of artists speaking
(03:26):
openly.
I feel like you've really comeinto this place where you talk
about navigating the business ina really real way, and I've
like gone on TikTok and seen youlive talking even about
kindness, which is what thispodcast is all about, or
sometimes the lack thereof,which you know happens in this
business too.
Okay, we can be real.
So I just I appreciate thatabout you a lot and I'm happy to
(03:48):
talk with you today.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Thank you.
Yeah, that's awesome, I had noidea.
Well, that's cool.
I thought no one saw thoseTikTok things.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Listen, we be scrolling, we be scrolling.
Hey, I also love your sweater,so there we go.
I'm just going to keepcomplimenting you this entire
time.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You know it's better than therapy, right, that's true
, let me cross my legs and getmy notebook out.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
This is vintage.
I got it at a thrift store inSan Francisco on the
Haight-Ashbury.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh, it's sweet.
Yeah, I love it the vintagestuff is cool because I mean, I
like to pretend I'm into thatstuff, which I am, but I'm just
like I don't really do it enoughto really say that it always
has a story, like I feel like itcomes with a history, so you
don't know who you're conjuringright now, but it's a good
presence.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, also, I will say, if youwant to get more into vintage
shopping there's like, if youever get a chance to be in
Vancouver, canada, their vintagestores are unpicked because
everyone in Canada wears thesame thing.
So anything that's like outsideof the regular what is worn
(04:52):
every day, it's just like cheapand unpicked.
There's fabulous, crazy thingsavailable there that you're like
why did no one buy this?
And why, is it only $35Canadian dollars?
That's like free.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
We all got to get to Canada.
I'm going to write that down.
Yeah, Vancouver I'm notpicturing Doug Funnies just like
walking around, because yousaid everyone wears the same
thing.
I don't know if that referenceis going to go over anybody's
head.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Doug Funnies.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh Doug, Maybe that wasn't your gen the tv show doug
oh, oh, doug.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yes, yeah, okay, yes, thank you, I thought I was on
an island for a second, but Iwill say I yeah.
The first question I alwayslike to ask here after I like
accost people with genuinecompliments is how are you at
accepting compliments?
Because I feel like it'ssomething you get in this
industry, but it's like also atricky thing sometimes,
depending on your, your stateI'm terrible at accepting.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You did a good job.
I, it's true, it's like learned.
You know, anytime someone givesme a compliment, I kind of roll
my eyes Like I'm like there'sno way they're telling me the
truth.
It's this weird thing that Ihave where, um, I have a
horrible, horrible timeaccepting compliments because I
feel like a critique is what'strue and a compliment is just a
(06:05):
lie.
Um, and, and I don't know,maybe that's because I grew up
in the ballet world where, youknow, every little thing is
critiqued because it's such this, you know, perfectionist kind
of art form.
That is just impossible, it'simpossible, like it's.
It's impossible to become, well, no one's perfect, obviously,
(06:29):
but it's impossible to becomeperfect in ballet, right,
there's always a critique.
So I grew up in that world andI was always critiqued.
When I was little, like, I wasstarted ballet when I was, you
know, out of the womb, Ibasically was born into it.
So it's, you know, um, so toreceive a compliment is like,
like you, you know, like, whywould you?
(06:52):
Why?
Um?
and that can't possibly be true.
And then and then I guess thereal, the real way I receive
compliments is not spoken, youknow, like I hear it but I never
absorb it.
The way I only ever absorbcompliments and I must work on
(07:13):
this with my therapist is likethrough applause.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh, that's interesting, Because I grew up
on stage, yeah.
Wow, that validation of theskin touching each other.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's the validation .
It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
It's like that Because that's kind of the only
compliment you get in the balletworld really is just the
applause.
Yeah, there's not really anyother specifics aside from the
critique.
No, why would they?
I know it's such an intenseworld.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, why would they ever say you know, oh, that's a
beautiful developpe.
No, they're like, if you dothis, it'll go even higher.
It's like always something towork on in the ballet world.
It is wild.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Wow, yeah, I know to an intense level that, to be
true, I mean not personally.
I'm not wearing ballet slippersright now.
I'd honestly break both my legsand fall into my face and they'd
have a lot of critiques with me, we'll say Lina.
But I was interested in howyour relationship has changed
with perfectionism over theyears as you've entered this
industry in many different ways,because I think a lot of us
struggle with that right.
(08:12):
You're self-taping and you'relike my lighting's not perfect.
I look like a Muppet, which Ialways do anyway, and like what
you know, I love that.
Actually, it's fine.
There's a million things goingthrough your head as an artist.
So to have even someone elsesaying that, I'm sure growing up
made your relationship withperfectionism trickier.
I don't know.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but it did.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And you're right.
As an artist, we strive forthis idea of perfection that
doesn't exist.
An idea of the perfectperformance it doesn't exist.
Uh, we cannot objectively seewhat we do because we are inside
of ourselves and we know themechanisms of how we perform.
(08:55):
So, to us, when we see our work, let's say with a self-tape, or
anytime I see myself back onscreen or hear myself back
singing, my lived perception ofwhat happened is a completely
different thing than theperception of what I'm watching.
(09:17):
And it's such a disconnectbecause it feels one way.
And then, when you watch it, itlooks a completely different
way and you're like, oh, that'sso bad, right, because it
doesn't match whatever you thinkis going on in your head, and
so, because it's like a mismatch, it's never good enough, it'll
never be good enough.
And so I found that, if I Ihave a lot of grace for myself
(09:42):
now, because when I watchsomething, I go, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I mean Just go, it's fine.
Nope, yeah Like like especiallya self tape.
If, if I, if I make it throughthe scene, you know, and I make
it through the scene, and it'skind of connected and it felt
good, then I usually like, I'll,I'll briefly watch it back but
(10:10):
I won't get really into it andI'll be like it's great, it's
fine, just moving on.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, I need to learn that from you because we can
enter that self-tape spiralwhere it's like you're on, take
number 27 and your reader who'slike is probably your partner.
Whoever you're living with, islike I'm about to leave this
relationship, but you knowyou're like, I can get one more,
you know Right yeah, and theproblem with that is, I feel,
that when you get overly intoyour head, then your intuitions
stop doing what they do.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So well, our intuitions can take a scene and
interpret a scene in like thepurest sense.
So your first few takes aregoing to be kind of the best.
And then, as you go further intothe oh, I want to fix it.
I want to fix it because youkeep watching back you lose a
sense of that initial, yourinitial response to the scene,
(10:52):
and there it becomes morerobotic or it becomes more acted
, quote, unquote, right.
Whereas when, if you do it kindof willy nilly and you're
searching for the words andyou're trying to figure out what
the scene is, that in and ofitself is, you're so present in
the moment, you're so trying tofigure out what the scene is and
you're so like that you'rethere, you're in it and it's
(11:14):
just these intentions that justcome flying out, because you're
so overthinking about everythingelse and the logistics of it
You're not, it's, there's somuch intention there already
that you don't have to fightwith it.
But then when you start like oh, I know this scene, you know
(11:36):
you get, then it becomes overly,it just becomes overly thought
yeah, yeah, and then it can.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
That's so true.
Yeah, it can lose it, the the.
It can lose the complexity,like overcooked pasta.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It just gets yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah,
exactly.
It loses the, that initialoomph that you have when, the
energy you have when you'refirst doing the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I'm going to Venmo you for acting lessons just now,
just so you know.
I mean I think you'd be such aphenomenal acting coach.
I know you don't need that.
Maybe a side business one dayif you're into it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I might you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Listen, helping people.
It's a good gig.
I love helping people, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I want people to like know that.
You know it like that because Iwent through a struggle with
this, that, and I'm still goingthrough a struggle with this.
I'm on a.
I am on a you know number one TVshow on Apple TV Plus which is
so good, Massive right this ismassive Yep, and I still
(12:27):
struggle like, still strugglewith the industry, still
struggle with acting, stillstruggle with accepting myself
and my talent and thelimitations of my talent, like I
still struggle every single dayand I still learn things that I
wish I had known 20 years ago.
So for me to give everyone theknowledge, if they want to be a
sponge and just to, like youknow, have that knowledge that I
(12:50):
wish I had had 20 years ago,I'm so happy to give it because
to me it brings more joy knowingthat someone got a nugget of
something that's going to helpthem in the long run to like
find their way.
That, to me, is like the bestCause I'd rather give back than
(13:11):
to just simply keep it liketaking.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I want to hold back.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, it's like if you give me this then I'll give
you all my knowledge, because Ijust absolutely love to to you
know, see if any of this canmake a difference in any actor's
life, so they don't have todeal with some of the some of
the stuff I had dealt with anddidn't know any better and there
was no one to tell me.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, so much.
I mean, think about growing upand then seeing, you know,
watching your favorite TV show,and seeing a person on that show
, on that number one show, comeout and say I'm still struggling
with this.
The person over here who's onself-tape take number 27
spiraling can say I'm strugglingin a different way, you know,
and it's just, it's relatable,it helps us connect and no
matter what sort of you're on,if you can just be open about
(13:56):
that, I think it's kind of whywe're here.
Yeah, and in addition tohelping helping others and
before we get into friends andthe neighbors, of course I would
love to know, alina, startingin your career, were there acts
of kindness or a big act ofkindness that kind of stands out
to you as changing yourtrajectory early on, just to
kind of fly over?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
as your dog leaves the room.
They're like this is a bigquestion.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I need to go.
I'm sure there were a lot, butI would love to know if there
was a way, kindness sort oftransformed the journey you were
on.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Um, hmm, um.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
From cats to headway to, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
This is terrible.
Um well kindness.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It can also be like a self-kindness, because I think
kindness gets like a puppies inrainbow rep the creative team
that sat there and, you know,like one guy.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So my first show was Cats.
It was the National TouringCompany of Cats and I went to an
(15:13):
open call in San Francisco.
The kindness of my friendcalling me, who was like you
need to get your ass here nowbecause they're having auditions
for women at one and it's like12 o'clock, can you get here?
And so, like you need to getyour ass here now because
they're having auditions forwomen at one and it's like 12
o'clock, can you get here?
And so the kindness of myfriend being like you need to
come to the kindness of thecreative team.
Apparently, I remember this oneof the guys who is on the
(15:39):
creative team.
He had to leave early but hestayed for my entire callback
and missed his flight justwaiting for me and allowing me
(16:07):
to prove myself that I could dosomething like that.
For this guy to be like yes, herAnother act of kindness to miss
your flight.
For that Like, because I willsay that was probably the
biggest changing that would.
That was, that was my lifealtering thing was booking the
touring company of Cats, becauseI wasn't planning on going into
(16:29):
the industry.
I wasn't planning on going intodance or theater, or it was
always just going to besomething I did on the side and
I wasn't.
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But the TV film thing at first was like didn't you
have a crush on someone?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, yeah, but I do just want to be famous to marry
this person.
Correct.
Yeah, jonathan Brandes.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, shout out.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, shout out, Jonathan Brandes.
JB we miss you and I wanted tobe on TV because I wanted to
meet him and marry him, like,like that was my you know goal
in life.
But you know, to do musicaltheater and to perform on stage,
I did not think it wassomething that I could do viably
(17:11):
as a career.
Didn't take the SATs, I didn'tapply for any colleges because I
was kind of in a phase of like,what is it that I want to do,
(17:32):
what am I good at and whatbrings me joy?
For a while I thought maybe Iwould be like a therapist or a
psychiatrist or something likethat, where I would help people,
because I was very curiousabout how people are and their
psyche and like how, like what,what they're driven by, like
people fascinate me and still do.
But you know, again I was likeI don't know what I want to do
(17:56):
with my life.
And then, and then my friendcalled me and I went to this
audition randomly and then threemonths later, like right after
my 18th birthday, it changed mytrajectory of my life completely
.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Wow, mm-hmm, so you're just picking up the phone
and calling people when youthink of them, yeah exactly To
change someone's whole life.
Yes, Instead of that person.
I mean, I have ADHD, so it's alittle hard.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
But instead of that person just kind of you know,
saying, oh, like I don't want tooverstep or whatever, right,
yeah, no, you know, it's okay togive your friends a heads up if
they're perfect for something,it's okay.
It's not a competition.
Really honestly, it is not acompetition If your friends
excel because you were like I'mauditioning for this, but you'd
be so much better in this, oryou should come in with me, or
we could do this together, likewho cares?
Like if you don't, it doesn'tmatter if you don't book it, and
(18:50):
they do Like I don't see the.
There's no problem in that,because it's like there's,
there's, you know everybody's ontheir own journey.
Their, their success isdifferent.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Everyone's success is completely different and you
have to be okay with going onthe journey that you're going on
, even if it means that you'renot going to get to a place
where you thought you would.
Oh, and there's room foreverybody and there's actually
science that shows that kindnessdoes come back to you.
It is contagious and it doescome back, and it's not why we
do it.
But I've had instances where Ihad an audition and you know the
same thing happened.
I'm like my friend would be somuch better for this.
I sent it to them and thencasting actually remembers you
(19:30):
as being sort of like a kindhuman.
You know, like it does comeback to you again, not why you
do it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay.
So if there's something behindit where there's like there's,
you know, there's like, oh, I'mgoing to get something back if I
do this, then that's actuallynot kindness, that's a
transaction.
And yeah, and kindness is not atransaction.
Kindness is one way.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yes, it is reciprocal and it does change.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
What it does is it kind of changes your perspective
of the world.
The kinder you are and the moregiving and loving and
compassionate you are, yourvision of the world will shift
into that and you will see theworld as kinder and more
compassionate and more loving toyou and it will open you up for
those opportunities and you'llkind of be more loving to you
and it will open you up forthose opportunities and you'll
(20:25):
kind of be more free to that.
When you're more focused onlike they have more than I do
and it's a competition and thisis so hard and it's that and
everybody sucks.
Guess what's going to come.
That energy is going to comeright to you and guess what?
It is going to suck.
It won't be like it would like,like it would.
So I think in when kindness isdone, where it's like in a
(20:51):
transactional sense, whereyou're expecting something to
come back to you, then thenthat's kind of it that sends it
on a negative swing.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's not the best intention or genuine.
It's sort of like just beingquote, unquote nice, maybe, or
polite, yeah, and a little couldbe manipulative.
Right yeah, I love that youbring that up because it's sort
of like watching your friends ona TV show or on Broadway,
whatever it is, thinking beingso excited for them and thinking
I'm excited for when thathappens to me, versus being
jealous and maybe going down adifferent path.
(21:23):
I think that mindset's superimportant.
And as we bring up Broadway,you know we're the Broadway
podcast network, so before weget to Apple we'll start at the
B before we go to the A, whichis backwards, but it's okay,
it's A-okay.
I think people would troll meif I did not just ask you about
Hedwig for a second, which, as akid, I would see the billboards
and I didn't understand why itwasn't about Harry Potter's owl.
(21:45):
But you know that's not myquestion, because that's well.
That could be an angry inch ifyou look at the author of that,
but you delivered.
You know such a vulnerableperformance, kind of night after
night.
I wonder how I guess kindnesswhether it was from others or
toward yourself played a role insustaining you through that
(22:05):
like emotional, intense show.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Oh well, this is the opposite of kindness, so that's
still a learning experience itis.
Yeah, I was very unkind tomyself during that time period
and I was spiraling into areally dark place, which is odd
to think, because you wouldthink that, oh, you won a Tony
(22:29):
Award.
This must have been thegreatest thing of your life and
it was a huge accomplishment andI'm so grateful for that and it
was a highlight.
But underneath the surface ofeverything was a real dark
struggle that was going on.
Where I was struggling at homeand then on stage, I was beating
(22:49):
myself up in my head and that,to me, I was like in the
character.
You know, the character is avery beaten down person and only
until they are let go and letfree are they able to be
themselves and have this journeyand transformation.
(23:11):
And what I was doing was I wasfeeling like it was okay to
treat myself horribly like thisbecause it was part of the
character and it made it morereal, and so I was not taking
care of myself.
I was completely burning thecandle at both ends.
I had very little, you know, togive and emotionally I was
(23:37):
extremely unstable and so I wasmaking really weird choices that
I probably wouldn't make if Icould do it all over again.
But, with all of that said, itcreated, you know, a relatable
character for everyone where yousaw someone who was really
(24:00):
going through it and you reallybelieved it and you really
wanted this person to get out ofthis situation and to become
who they really are and want tobe.
And um and by that I connectedwith a lot of people um, which
was really special, and I and Ithink the Hedwig community is is
(24:23):
one of those extremely specialcommunities, that it's small but
mighty the people who have beentouched and have related to
Hedwig and the story of Hedwigand the story of Yitzhak are
forever and like forever fansand forever obsessed with the
show and will always you know,will always be affected anytime
(24:47):
they see the show or hear theshow or any iteration of the
show.
So I think that, like, as faras kindness is concerned, yeah,
there was kindness thrown to mebecause of the situation and
because of what I was doing tomyself.
I didn't see it, Nick, I wasblind to it, because to me it
(25:12):
was all about this character.
It was all about and I wasmaking the character my life,
unintentionally.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And you know, kind of living in the misery of this,
this fight, and I would have itwould be a different experience.
Of course, I think thecharacter would still be wrought
with the pain and everythingthat you need, because when you
live your just living life,you'll feel that You'll, you'll
have enough experience, nomatter what happens to your life
(25:41):
.
You have enough experience tobe able to play a character.
It's really, really true.
I mean, if you've ever felt outof place or like you're not in
your own skin, or like you'vebeen abused or like you've been
hurt, it doesn't even matter.
You could go all the way backto being a child, like a really
(26:03):
little child.
Someone took away your doll andyou can use that emotion for
abandonment or for you, you know, or your parents were supposed
to pick you up from school andthey forgot, and you can use
that like you can use all of it.
So you don't need a ton of lifeexperience in order to infuse a
character with truth.
(26:24):
Yeah, um, so, and I I wasn'tfiguring that out that well yeah
and uh and so, um and so now,if I went back and I played
yitzhak again, but sober, itwould be a.
I would have a differentexperience with it and, um, I
(26:45):
definitely wouldn't put myselfthrough some of the hell that I
put myself through and it wasn'tfor the art, it was for it was.
It was to beat myself down,because the character is so
beaten down.
It was like it was notconscious, it was not
intentional, but it was doing it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I'm sorry you went through that.
First of all, I appreciate yousharing it and I love that you
kind of put the emphasis on howit helps people.
You know you said it helped meconnect with people and it helps
people feel seen.
And I think that speaks to whoyou are, probably the fact that
that's your takeaway.
It's a lesson a lot of actors,I think, have to learn, and it's
really interesting hearing itfrom you that it was during that
(27:22):
time of winning a Tony where alot of us might think, oh,
finally, be kind to myself whenI get that acknowledgement, it's
like you know, maybe it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I think awards are great in the sense that it does
give you something to strive for, but it's like, well, what if I
(27:58):
want to do that?
What if that's something that Iwant to do?
You know, it's like, why can'tI do that?
Or well, people are going tothink that you're struggling.
Or people are going to thinkthis you need to keep up the
idea that you're, you know,unattainable and that people are
going to want you more.
And dah, dah, dah, and it'slike it can have a negative
(28:19):
effect.
Interestingly enough, you knowit's interesting, it can also
have an insanely positive effectwhere it will open all the
doors.
So there's a double edged there.
There's a real double edgethere.
So for anyone who's reallywanting to win an award and is
like gung ho for it and wants it, you have to understand that
there are some things that comewith it that are a surprise, but
(28:45):
there are some things that comewith it that that are a
surprise, surprise, surprise,surprise.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm like, but I want to do that you
know, dumb little role in that,in that show, because I want to
work and then everyone aroundyou is like drink the Kool-Aid
and you're like no, but I kindof want Sprite or Dr Pepper.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, I need to work, I want to work.
It's not about like.
For me, it was never about thestatus you know a status symbol
of I have a Tony award, so youhave to treat me like a Tony
award winner.
It's like I want I.
I want a Tony award, which isamazing.
Like that.
It was a confirmation that Iwas doing a good job at what I
do and that people noticed thatand that's amazing.
(29:32):
But I thrive on working and Ithrive on diving into as many
different things as I possiblycan because it makes me better
at what I do.
And for me, like I want what'sthe point of just doing what I
(29:52):
do and stopping at a certainpoint?
That I get to like as far aslike the, as far as like the,
the level of craft that I do?
Like what's the point ofgetting there and stopping?
Like I want to get there but Iwant to keep going.
I want to get better, I want toexpand the things that I can do
and the ways that I can bringcharacter to life.
(30:12):
Like I want to go for it.
Like, and I do.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, like Dr Seuss, all the places you will go Right
.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
And look where you've gone now.
I mean I got to get to yourfriends and neighbors, which I'm
not just saying this, I mean Ithink most of the world is
loving this show.
It's such a great binge.
I do love that we first meetyou in the show.
We see the contrast of thewhole show.
It's like you're sitting onthis idyllic, beautiful lawn but
then we don't realize you'rekind of terrorizing maybe the
people in the house in a waylike it's a different experience
(30:40):
for them, which is kind of theshow's theme.
In a sense, it's like you're inthis rich neighborhood, but that
underbelly is so different.
So suffice to saycongratulations, thank you.
Yeah, I don't know where I'mgoing with this, but I'm like
reviewing the show live to you.
I just really do find that yourstoryline in particular has a
lot to do with kindness.
Like your character, allie iskind of the heart of the show,
at least in what I've seen sofar.
(31:01):
Can you just speak to how youfleshed her out?
You know, I know you feltconnected to her from the moment
you got the audition.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, I think you know you could get so just from
a like, a perspective ofconnection or the character wise
.
You can get hung up when acharacter description says
bipolar or says you know certainlike words that you're like oh,
got a bipolar, you know, got toresearch, you know it's like.
(31:32):
You can get kind of hung up onthat when you have to realize
that oh wait, no, this person isa person.
It doesn't matter their mentalhealth state.
Whatever I need in the scene,it's written in there and I can
decipher it.
I don't have to go and researchhow you know how it is to be
(31:54):
living on this planet whenyou're bipolar.
Um, cause I think everyone'sexperience is wildly different.
There's massive, there's hugespectrums of that, and so it
didn't really come into playbecause I felt like underneath
(32:15):
it all, there's a level ofsadness that is just palpable
with her, everything she saysand everything she does, there's
a level of like well, this iswho I am and that's okay, and
she is just living through life,just trying to feel like,
(32:42):
normal, like, aren't we all justtrying to feel normal Like?
Aren't we all just trying tofeel normal If?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
it even exists.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
What is normal, but so you know her.
Not me yeah exactly so shestruggles with that.
There's that internal thing inthere and I relate so much to
the struggle of just wanting tolike feel like I'm I'm normal,
like feel like you know, like Ican function on a daily basis
(33:13):
like everyone else seems to do,but somehow I, I sit here and I
feel, like you know, stuck onsomething or dragged down by
something that I feel likeeveryone else could just be fine
with and like why do I have ahard time with this?
Why can't I deal with this?
Why aren't I normal?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah.
So for her, just the opening ofsitting on a lawn and playing
fake plastic trees by radioheadit, it's such a tell for the
character, it's such a greatintroduction to her.
Um, because that song can sayit all in, and the band, the
(33:57):
radiohead, it says it all, likethe, the angst of it, the
sadness of it, the confusion ofit and the fighting with itself.
I'm a Radiohead fan, so for meit spoke volumes.
And then the rest of the scene.
I could just and be.
(34:20):
You know that little sisterwho's kind of like oh hey,
what's up.
You know, you know I'm kind ofmelancholy right now.
I'm like I'm feeling it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know, how are you how you're not leading, like
you said, with the disease, butinstead just showing this person
reacting in any given moment.
They just have a different, youknow, set of paint brushes than
(34:49):
the rest of us and they're alot more colorful, and sometimes
there's knives inside the brush.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, there's nothing that is, you
know that it's like it's justthat they it's like it's just,
it's just living in a world thatis set up for someone else and
trying to navigate that, andthere's so many people who feel
that way.
I feel like on the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
We talked about it before.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
They say that a lot on that show yeah, I feel like
everyone, it has something wherethey feel like they, they
function in a way that is notset up for them, it's set up for
someone else.
The normal people quote unquote, which doesn't really exist,
and so, therefore, I feel likeAli is a highly relatable
(35:36):
character, because we're alljust trying to survive in this
world and you know, the world isdifficult, it's just difficult
and um, you see people who havetheir lives seemingly together
and you think that you want that, but really they're also
struggling too, so that you know, and you don't have to give it
a name, like you don't have togive it a name like bipolar or
(36:00):
like autism or any of that, ordepression or anything.
I think it's a universalfeeling of everyone feeling like
we're just trying to survive inthis world and put one foot in
front of the other and deal witha world that is set up for
someone else.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
That's brilliant.
What's the song?
You put one foot in front ofthe other.
It's like the Christmas moviePut one foot in front of the
other and soon you'll be walkingout the door.
You have this.
I'm going to save that and postit at Christmas time.
You have this probably going toforget.
You have this beautiful momentwith Jon Hamm I mean many in the
show, but early on in the showwhere you basically say you come
to his house and you say hey,you know you might think that
(36:42):
you suck at life, but in thebrother department you're pretty
amazing and I just like foundthat so touching and it made me
wonder did you like that?
I took my breath away to seethat.
I think, because I'm a brother,I don't know.
Did you two have the time todevelop that relationship or is
that just natural chemistry?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
It's our natural chemistry.
We like, we did a chemistryread when I got a callback which
was a shock.
Um uh, trust, it was a shock, uh, cause I hadn't been booking
anything for a long time.
I was going through, I wasgoing through the like the long,
where you're like, uh, another,another self tape.
I'm not going to get this, I'lljust put myself on tape really
(37:22):
quick, just do, you know, do areal whatever, like, I'm just
gonna say I did it, put it outthere.
You know it was one of those.
So it was like, well, what?
Yeah, um, and they did achemistry check with me and john
over zoom, which is hilarious,and uh, and they were like, yeah
, you got it, I it.
I was like, oh, okay, this iswild, what?
(37:43):
So when we went to go film,honestly, it was like setting up
this chemistry with John waspretty instantaneous when we met
, because he feels to me wellfor me.
You know, I don't know histhing.
Maybe it was really hard forhim, I don't know, but for me it
was easy.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I have a transcript from here, let me uh from him.
Let me read it now because forme it was.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
it was an immediate sense of home and big brother
like protection.
It's that big brotherprotection.
I felt like I got a hug and Iwas like okay, okay, yeah, this
is an openness, and there's justan openness to chemistry.
There's an openness there thatit's hard to explain.
(38:33):
But if you have one, if you'reworking on chemistry with
someone, and you have one personwho's like kind of, yeah, you
know, it's really it'simpossible to have chemistry
with that person because theyare walled, yeah, it's like Mom.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Shannon and Superstar with the tree, Although the
tree doesn't.
I don't know if you've seenthat scene.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, you've got to watch Superstar if you haven't
seen it, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Okay, sorry, I'm just being a muppet.
Now I know what I'm sayingRight.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So when you try to have chemistry with someone, I
did have that experience where Iwas like, hey, you know and
they were like they're like overhere oh no.
Oh, we're never gonna.
This is impossible.
Like hi, you know, I'm here,I'm open, open.
So just the simple fact thathe's so he's a very giving actor
(39:19):
and he's very open and he'll gothere with you.
He'll just start riffing offthings and going off book.
And you're like, oh all right,yeah, let's riff, let's do this.
I'm on the same page as you.
It's like a match of energy.
So it was instantaneous, likethe chemistry and the setup and
(39:40):
the feeling like this guy youknow who I had just met was my
brother forever.
It was fast and easy and kind,kindness.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about kindness with
someone so sort of iconic.
I mean, this actor has donesuch amazing things, People all
over the world know him.
Director has done such amazingthings, People all over the
world know him.
And I just wonder too, as anumber one on the call sheet,
are there things?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
you witnessed that you really appreciated from like
a kindness standpoint.
Yeah, actually he's not Okay.
So there's a lot of people whoare like I'm not going to take a
note from another actor.
A lot of people are like I'mnot taking a note from another.
I'm like uh-uh, no, like youhave to work together you cannot
always have a director come toyou and be like, how can I help?
(40:30):
You've got to be open to that.
And so anytime John was like,oh hey, could you just like wait
a second so I can finish thismove, so we can have that line
in the clear, blah, blah, blah.
You know, I mean he's like beendoing this forever.
I'm like, oh yeah, totally noproblem.
Like absolutely of course.
Yeah, happy to be here for you,you know.
(40:51):
And he would do the same for me,like if I asked for anything
that I needed, he would do thesame for me.
So, and it opened the stage forme to ask questions as well.
So it creates this again, thistrust, an actor trust, where
you're like I, you know, I trustthat you, you are going to tell
(41:12):
me what you need.
I trust that you are know yourshit enough, like that you're
going to deliver and I can feedoff of your delivery and we can
kind of feed the energy back andforth.
And that's going to kind ofcreate the symbiosis with the
chemistry and with what we needto create.
(41:34):
So I think with John, I mean A,he's been doing it for so long.
He's very professional.
No nonsense, love that.
Very professional, no nonsense,love that.
But he's also open, free andhonest and that honesty that I
experienced helped me trust andthat instant connection came
from just the open and honestyand the trust Like I got this,
(41:59):
you got this, we got this andnow we're going to like improv
some stuff and we'll have somefun with it here and have some
fun like who cares?
yeah, how are you great?
Yeah, so it just is like um,it's a relaxation that happens
with the trust, and I also haveum scenes with rameen caramalu,
who I've done show, who I'vedone something with before, and
(42:22):
and so we had to have all thischemistry and that was super
easy because it was just like,oh, my God, hey, how are you?
Okay, you know like yeah, soit's just one of those things,
it's like you got.
But when I met Ramin, Iremember being like oh, you're
open, like I can feel how openyou are to wanting to have the
(42:42):
chemistry and doing a good jobwith it.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, you don't need to find a key to try and pick
someone's block.
I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
It should be like, just if you remain open as an
actor and you're like you can,it's like it's almost like
you're opening up, to be likeI'm going to open up to you
because I want you to trust me.
You know there, it's not a gift, it's an invitation.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Essentially, oh, I love that.
Well, we all have an invitationto keep watching the show
because it already got renewed,which is wild and it speaks to
the kind of show it is.
I don't know if I have aninvitation to ever see Ramin
again, because I was a reader atABC and he came into audition,
which was cool to see because hewas a big Broadway star and he
was going in for a role when aton of people were going and he
(43:31):
was nervous, whatever, and Icame out and I was just like uh
ramen, ramen, um kirimalu, andhe was actually.
He was really nice about it,but I didn't, I actually didn't
know.
I think he was in Les Mis atthe time.
I didn't, I actually didn'tknow.
I think he was in Les Mis atthe time.
I hadn't seen it.
I don't know.
I'm the worst.
It's okay, it's tricky becauseyou don't want to over like
research people, because youwant to meet people as people,
but you want to know things.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's okay.
You know what?
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thank you Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Trust People.
Do it all the time, really Allthe time, lena, lena.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I always get a where's Mary, because my last
name is Peter Paul and it's likePeter.
Paul and Mary and I'm like shedied actually Mary and her
family.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Anyway, You're like, my mom's name was Mary.
She's dead.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
They'll be like you're like I'm fine.
There's like a twin of mesuddenly with a knife.
It's like what's going on there?
I'm going to walk away.
So you know you sing in theshow and I wonder, like, do you
think this show could be amusical?
I know that's a weird randomquestion, guess you haven't
gotten it before, but I want toknow.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I don't want it to be a musical.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Can we stop making?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
everything musicals.
I'm so exhausted by it.
Not that it's fine because it'snot made for me, like these
things are.
These shows are not made for meto watch, which is fine because
I can't anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Well, you always I've heard you say like a show will
find its audience and if it's agood show, it'll last with that
audience.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, it's true.
Look at Stereophonic is a greatexample.
Three and a half hour play.
A three and a half hour play,honey, that, yeah, three and a
half hours.
I remember when I heard it wasthree and a half I was like oh
God, right, because no one wantsto see a three and a half hour
play.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I know A Long Day's Journey Into Night with Jessica
Lange.
I did want to watch her, butthat was.
It was a long day's journey.
I'm just going to say that.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
But this is a okay.
So three and a half hour play.
First barrier no stars.
Second barrier Not a known IP.
Third barrier Sells out Hugehit.
I went and saw it.
I thought it was incredible andthat three and a half hours I
was like I could watch this forsix.
That's amazing.
(45:44):
It's so good and it was so welldone.
And that's the thing Not allthe producers actually.
There was actually a producer,apparently, that pulled out from
funding the Off-Broadwaybecause they were like if you
don't cast a star, I am notgoing to fund this show.
And they didn't.
They were like no, we don'twant a star in it, we want the
(46:06):
show to speak for itself.
That's what I think.
Ultimately, what happened withHedwig was, after they had
established it as this big, hugething with Neil Patrick Harris
in it, they forgot to focus onhow good the show is.
It doesn't need a star.
You don't need a star to sellHedwig.
(46:26):
The show is so good, you don'tneed a star to sell that show.
And so I think they lost sight.
They got the star thing andthen they got trapped in the
trappings of like must have astar Instead of being like Neil
Patrick Harris.
Neil Patrick Harris is amazing.
Now let's focus on howincredible this show is.
Let's focus on how incredibleeverybody else is in the show.
(46:48):
Let's focus on how beautifuland how much you must see the
show, no matter who is in it,because the show that's really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, because I think you can get stuck in the
trappings of well, you have tohire a star in order to sell
tickets, but if you know, it'stricky because on the opposite
side too, I want to shout outyou know, little Shop, I think,
is actually doing a great job ofit's an iconic show and people
want to see that show.
But they're also putting invery surprising people for the
roles that we've come to knowand love and I think that's a
(47:16):
cool sweet spot in this currentindustry where again
everything's being made into amusical.
They want the IP or they wantlike a big name when there's no
work anywhere, so like GeorgeClooney's coming to Broadway and
all these people, and so it issort of a tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
It is.
There's a sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Oh well, I know I got to let you go.
Lina, can you please just sharea kindness tip for listeners?
So can you leave us withsomething you would like
everybody out there to do ontheir own corner of the world to
take action and try and makethe world a little brighter
overall.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Heavy questions.
I know I'm sorry Got to be kind, honestly, it's be a listener,
just be a listener, because alot of times people just need
someone who can really listen.
And they don't need a fix, theydon't need suggestions, they
don't need help.
(48:10):
They don't need the help is thelistening, and you can learn a
lot if you just listen tosomeone.
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I'm going to write that down and print it on my
wall.
And look at it Oops, that's sobeautiful.
I'm going to write that downand print it on my wall and look
at it.
Oops, that's kind of what Johndoes for you and you know, to
bring it back to your show alittle bit Like he doesn't seem
at least this point forwardtrying to fix Allie.
He seems like he's just kind ofthere for her.
Yeah, safe place to land.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Which is a beautiful place for us to land.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I've so enjoyed this time with you, Lena.
Thank you so much.
Thank you and I'm grateful thatwe have you to look up to in
this business.
Oh, thank you, because I thinkyou're doing great stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Thank you, peter, paul and Mary.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Oh, thank you, Lina.
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
How we Roll a podcast foractors by Casting Networks.
(00:28):
Hello actors, it's yourfriendly neighborhood host,
robert Peterpaul, popping intothe stream to share something a
little different this week.
Some of my favorite actorhomework is consuming content
seeing a friend in a show,watching a new series, and
recently we loved watching yourFriends and Neighbors on Apple.
(00:50):
Did you see it?
I realize that could sound odd.
If you didn't know that was aTV show.
I was lucky enough to chat withone of the show's stars, who
also happens to be aTony-winning Broadway powerhouse
for my other podcast, the Artof Kindness.
Over on that sunny street ofthe podcast world, we chat with
guests who use their platform tocreate a brighter business.
(01:13):
I'd love for you to check itout.
Anyway, I'm talking about LenaHall.
She dropped spoonfuls ofincredible acting insights that
I think you'll eat up.
So I cut together a new editand I'm sharing it here, hoping
it inspires you.
Friend, lena Hall is perhapsbest known for her Tony-winning
(01:37):
turn in Hedwig and the AngryInch.
She also appeared on Broadwayin Kinky Boots, 42nd Street,
tarzan and the revival of LittleShop of Horrors.
On screen, lena rocked fourseasons of AMC's Snowpiercer and
recently returned to televisionwith the aforementioned your
Friends and Neighbors.
(01:57):
Lena plays Jon Hamm's sister inthe hit Apple TV series, which
has already been renewed.
We dive into audition anxiety,the upside of cold reads,
self-tape burnout which is realand how letting go can lead to
breakthroughs.
It's really special to hearsomeone of her caliber struggle
(02:17):
with a lot of the same stuff weall do, whether you're fresh out
of drama school, whether you'refresh out of drama school, or
whether you're fresh out ofdrama school or deep into your
third callback this week.
This one's for you, friend.
Here's how we roll with LenaHall.
(02:40):
We're rolling, hall, we'rerolling.
I think we already had a littlecameo from.
Is that a dog in the back?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, that's my dog child.
That's Dagny.
Oh hi, baby girl.
Yeah, she's huge, she's a GreatDane Labrador mix, so she's a
giant.
Giant dog.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
We might have a cameo from one of my cats.
They're not giant and they'renot dogs, but they will try and
bust through the door.
So just to warn you, lena.
But I have to say I'm soexcited to talk to you.
I'm such a big fan of your workand I think obviously I admire
your talent.
But I've just also reallyadmired over the years the way
you speak so openly, like when Ithink of artists speaking
(03:26):
openly.
I feel like you've really comeinto this place where you talk
about navigating the business ina really real way, and I've
like gone on TikTok and seen youlive talking even about
kindness, which is what thispodcast is all about, or
sometimes the lack thereof,which you know happens in this
business too.
Okay, we can be real.
So I just I appreciate thatabout you a lot and I'm happy to
(03:48):
talk with you today.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Thank you.
Yeah, that's awesome, I had noidea.
Well, that's cool.
I thought no one saw thoseTikTok things.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Listen, we be scrolling, we be scrolling.
Hey, I also love your sweater,so there we go.
I'm just going to keepcomplimenting you this entire
time.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You know it's better than therapy, right, that's true
, let me cross my legs and getmy notebook out.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
This is vintage.
I got it at a thrift store inSan Francisco on the
Haight-Ashbury.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh, it's sweet.
Yeah, I love it the vintagestuff is cool because I mean, I
like to pretend I'm into thatstuff, which I am, but I'm just
like I don't really do it enoughto really say that it always
has a story, like I feel like itcomes with a history, so you
don't know who you're conjuringright now, but it's a good
presence.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, also, I will say, if youwant to get more into vintage
shopping there's like, if youever get a chance to be in
Vancouver, canada, their vintagestores are unpicked because
everyone in Canada wears thesame thing.
So anything that's like outsideof the regular what is worn
(04:52):
every day, it's just like cheapand unpicked.
There's fabulous, crazy thingsavailable there that you're like
why did no one buy this?
And why, is it only $35Canadian dollars?
That's like free.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
We all got to get to Canada.
I'm going to write that down.
Yeah, Vancouver I'm notpicturing Doug Funnies just like
walking around, because yousaid everyone wears the same
thing.
I don't know if that referenceis going to go over anybody's
head.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Doug Funnies.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh Doug, Maybe that wasn't your gen the tv show doug
oh, oh, doug.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yes, yeah, okay, yes, thank you, I thought I was on
an island for a second, but Iwill say I yeah.
The first question I alwayslike to ask here after I like
accost people with genuinecompliments is how are you at
accepting compliments?
Because I feel like it'ssomething you get in this
industry, but it's like also atricky thing sometimes,
depending on your, your stateI'm terrible at accepting.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You did a good job.
I, it's true, it's like learned.
You know, anytime someone givesme a compliment, I kind of roll
my eyes Like I'm like there'sno way they're telling me the
truth.
It's this weird thing that Ihave where, um, I have a
horrible, horrible timeaccepting compliments because I
feel like a critique is what'strue and a compliment is just a
(06:05):
lie.
Um, and, and I don't know,maybe that's because I grew up
in the ballet world where, youknow, every little thing is
critiqued because it's such this, you know, perfectionist kind
of art form.
That is just impossible, it'simpossible, like it's.
It's impossible to become, well, no one's perfect, obviously,
(06:29):
but it's impossible to becomeperfect in ballet, right,
there's always a critique.
So I grew up in that world andI was always critiqued.
When I was little, like, I wasstarted ballet when I was, you
know, out of the womb, Ibasically was born into it.
So it's, you know, um, so toreceive a compliment is like,
like you, you know, like, whywould you?
(06:52):
Why?
Um?
and that can't possibly be true.
And then and then I guess thereal, the real way I receive
compliments is not spoken, youknow, like I hear it but I never
absorb it.
The way I only ever absorbcompliments and I must work on
(07:13):
this with my therapist is likethrough applause.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh, that's interesting, Because I grew up
on stage, yeah.
Wow, that validation of theskin touching each other.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's the validation .
It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
It's like that Because that's kind of the only
compliment you get in the balletworld really is just the
applause.
Yeah, there's not really anyother specifics aside from the
critique.
No, why would they?
I know it's such an intenseworld.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, why would they ever say you know, oh, that's a
beautiful developpe.
No, they're like, if you dothis, it'll go even higher.
It's like always something towork on in the ballet world.
It is wild.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Wow, yeah, I know to an intense level that, to be
true, I mean not personally.
I'm not wearing ballet slippersright now.
I'd honestly break both my legsand fall into my face and they'd
have a lot of critiques with me, we'll say Lina.
But I was interested in howyour relationship has changed
with perfectionism over theyears as you've entered this
industry in many different ways,because I think a lot of us
struggle with that right.
(08:12):
You're self-taping and you'relike my lighting's not perfect.
I look like a Muppet, which Ialways do anyway, and like what
you know, I love that.
Actually, it's fine.
There's a million things goingthrough your head as an artist.
So to have even someone elsesaying that, I'm sure growing up
made your relationship withperfectionism trickier.
I don't know.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but it did.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And you're right.
As an artist, we strive forthis idea of perfection that
doesn't exist.
An idea of the perfectperformance it doesn't exist.
Uh, we cannot objectively seewhat we do because we are inside
of ourselves and we know themechanisms of how we perform.
(08:55):
So, to us, when we see our work, let's say with a self-tape, or
anytime I see myself back onscreen or hear myself back
singing, my lived perception ofwhat happened is a completely
different thing than theperception of what I'm watching.
(09:17):
And it's such a disconnectbecause it feels one way.
And then, when you watch it, itlooks a completely different
way and you're like, oh, that'sso bad, right, because it
doesn't match whatever you thinkis going on in your head, and
so, because it's like a mismatch, it's never good enough, it'll
never be good enough.
And so I found that, if I Ihave a lot of grace for myself
(09:42):
now, because when I watchsomething, I go, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I mean Just go, it's fine.
Nope, yeah Like like especiallya self tape.
If, if I, if I make it throughthe scene, you know, and I make
it through the scene, and it'skind of connected and it felt
good, then I usually like, I'll,I'll briefly watch it back but
(10:10):
I won't get really into it andI'll be like it's great, it's
fine, just moving on.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, I need to learn that from you because we can
enter that self-tape spiralwhere it's like you're on, take
number 27 and your reader who'slike is probably your partner.
Whoever you're living with, islike I'm about to leave this
relationship, but you knowyou're like, I can get one more,
you know Right yeah, and theproblem with that is, I feel,
that when you get overly intoyour head, then your intuitions
stop doing what they do.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So well, our intuitions can take a scene and
interpret a scene in like thepurest sense.
So your first few takes aregoing to be kind of the best.
And then, as you go further intothe oh, I want to fix it.
I want to fix it because youkeep watching back you lose a
sense of that initial, yourinitial response to the scene,
(10:52):
and there it becomes morerobotic or it becomes more acted
, quote, unquote, right.
Whereas when, if you do it kindof willy nilly and you're
searching for the words andyou're trying to figure out what
the scene is, that in and ofitself is, you're so present in
the moment, you're so trying tofigure out what the scene is and
you're so like that you'rethere, you're in it and it's
(11:14):
just these intentions that justcome flying out, because you're
so overthinking about everythingelse and the logistics of it
You're not, it's, there's somuch intention there already
that you don't have to fightwith it.
But then when you start like oh, I know this scene, you know
(11:36):
you get, then it becomes overly,it just becomes overly thought
yeah, yeah, and then it can.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
That's so true.
Yeah, it can lose it, the the.
It can lose the complexity,like overcooked pasta.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It just gets yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah,
exactly.
It loses the, that initialoomph that you have when, the
energy you have when you'refirst doing the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I'm going to Venmo you for acting lessons just now,
just so you know.
I mean I think you'd be such aphenomenal acting coach.
I know you don't need that.
Maybe a side business one dayif you're into it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I might you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Listen, helping people.
It's a good gig.
I love helping people, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I want people to like know that.
You know it like that because Iwent through a struggle with
this, that, and I'm still goingthrough a struggle with this.
I'm on a.
I am on a you know number one TVshow on Apple TV Plus which is
so good, Massive right this ismassive Yep, and I still
(12:27):
struggle like, still strugglewith the industry, still
struggle with acting, stillstruggle with accepting myself
and my talent and thelimitations of my talent, like I
still struggle every single dayand I still learn things that I
wish I had known 20 years ago.
So for me to give everyone theknowledge, if they want to be a
sponge and just to, like youknow, have that knowledge that I
(12:50):
wish I had had 20 years ago,I'm so happy to give it because
to me it brings more joy knowingthat someone got a nugget of
something that's going to helpthem in the long run to like
find their way.
That, to me, is like the bestCause I'd rather give back than
(13:11):
to just simply keep it liketaking.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I want to hold back.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, it's like if you give me this then I'll give
you all my knowledge, because Ijust absolutely love to to you
know, see if any of this canmake a difference in any actor's
life, so they don't have todeal with some of the some of
the stuff I had dealt with anddidn't know any better and there
was no one to tell me.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, so much.
I mean, think about growing upand then seeing, you know,
watching your favorite TV show,and seeing a person on that show
, on that number one show, comeout and say I'm still struggling
with this.
The person over here who's onself-tape take number 27
spiraling can say I'm strugglingin a different way, you know,
and it's just, it's relatable,it helps us connect and no
matter what sort of you're on,if you can just be open about
(13:56):
that, I think it's kind of whywe're here.
Yeah, and in addition tohelping helping others and
before we get into friends andthe neighbors, of course I would
love to know, alina, startingin your career, were there acts
of kindness or a big act ofkindness that kind of stands out
to you as changing yourtrajectory early on, just to
kind of fly over?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
as your dog leaves the room.
They're like this is a bigquestion.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I need to go.
I'm sure there were a lot, butI would love to know if there
was a way, kindness sort oftransformed the journey you were
on.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Um, hmm, um.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
From cats to headway to, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
This is terrible.
Um well kindness.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It can also be like a self-kindness, because I think
kindness gets like a puppies inrainbow rep the creative team
that sat there and, you know,like one guy.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So my first show was Cats.
It was the National TouringCompany of Cats and I went to an
(15:13):
open call in San Francisco.
The kindness of my friendcalling me, who was like you
need to get your ass here nowbecause they're having auditions
for women at one and it's like12 o'clock, can you get here?
And so, like you need to getyour ass here now because
they're having auditions forwomen at one and it's like 12
o'clock, can you get here?
And so the kindness of myfriend being like you need to
come to the kindness of thecreative team.
Apparently, I remember this oneof the guys who is on the
(15:39):
creative team.
He had to leave early but hestayed for my entire callback
and missed his flight justwaiting for me and allowing me
(16:07):
to prove myself that I could dosomething like that.
For this guy to be like yes, herAnother act of kindness to miss
your flight.
For that Like, because I willsay that was probably the
biggest changing that would.
That was, that was my lifealtering thing was booking the
touring company of Cats, becauseI wasn't planning on going into
(16:29):
the industry.
I wasn't planning on going intodance or theater, or it was
always just going to besomething I did on the side and
I wasn't.
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But the TV film thing at first was like didn't you
have a crush on someone?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, yeah, but I do just want to be famous to marry
this person.
Correct.
Yeah, jonathan Brandes.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, shout out.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, shout out, Jonathan Brandes.
JB we miss you and I wanted tobe on TV because I wanted to
meet him and marry him, like,like that was my you know goal
in life.
But you know, to do musicaltheater and to perform on stage,
I did not think it wassomething that I could do viably
(17:11):
as a career.
Didn't take the SATs, I didn'tapply for any colleges because I
was kind of in a phase of like,what is it that I want to do,
(17:32):
what am I good at and whatbrings me joy?
For a while I thought maybe Iwould be like a therapist or a
psychiatrist or something likethat, where I would help people,
because I was very curiousabout how people are and their
psyche and like how, like what,what they're driven by, like
people fascinate me and still do.
But you know, again I was likeI don't know what I want to do
(17:56):
with my life.
And then, and then my friendcalled me and I went to this
audition randomly and then threemonths later, like right after
my 18th birthday, it changed mytrajectory of my life completely
.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Wow, mm-hmm, so you're just picking up the phone
and calling people when youthink of them, yeah exactly To
change someone's whole life.
Yes, Instead of that person.
I mean, I have ADHD, so it's alittle hard.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
But instead of that person just kind of you know,
saying, oh, like I don't want tooverstep or whatever, right,
yeah, no, you know, it's okay togive your friends a heads up if
they're perfect for something,it's okay.
It's not a competition.
Really honestly, it is not acompetition If your friends
excel because you were like I'mauditioning for this, but you'd
be so much better in this, oryou should come in with me, or
we could do this together, likewho cares?
Like if you don't, it doesn'tmatter if you don't book it, and
(18:50):
they do Like I don't see the.
There's no problem in that,because it's like there's,
there's, you know everybody's ontheir own journey.
Their, their success isdifferent.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Everyone's success is completely different and you
have to be okay with going onthe journey that you're going on
, even if it means that you'renot going to get to a place
where you thought you would.
Oh, and there's room foreverybody and there's actually
science that shows that kindnessdoes come back to you.
It is contagious and it doescome back, and it's not why we
do it.
But I've had instances where Ihad an audition and you know the
same thing happened.
I'm like my friend would be somuch better for this.
I sent it to them and thencasting actually remembers you
(19:30):
as being sort of like a kindhuman.
You know, like it does comeback to you again, not why you
do it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay.
So if there's something behindit where there's like there's,
you know, there's like, oh, I'mgoing to get something back if I
do this, then that's actuallynot kindness, that's a
transaction.
And yeah, and kindness is not atransaction.
Kindness is one way.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yes, it is reciprocal and it does change.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
What it does is it kind of changes your perspective
of the world.
The kinder you are and the moregiving and loving and
compassionate you are, yourvision of the world will shift
into that and you will see theworld as kinder and more
compassionate and more loving toyou and it will open you up for
those opportunities and you'llkind of be more loving to you
and it will open you up forthose opportunities and you'll
(20:25):
kind of be more free to that.
When you're more focused onlike they have more than I do
and it's a competition and thisis so hard and it's that and
everybody sucks.
Guess what's going to come.
That energy is going to comeright to you and guess what?
It is going to suck.
It won't be like it would like,like it would.
So I think in when kindness isdone, where it's like in a
(20:51):
transactional sense, whereyou're expecting something to
come back to you, then thenthat's kind of it that sends it
on a negative swing.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's not the best intention or genuine.
It's sort of like just beingquote, unquote nice, maybe, or
polite, yeah, and a little couldbe manipulative.
Right yeah, I love that youbring that up because it's sort
of like watching your friends ona TV show or on Broadway,
whatever it is, thinking beingso excited for them and thinking
I'm excited for when thathappens to me, versus being
jealous and maybe going down adifferent path.
(21:23):
I think that mindset's superimportant.
And as we bring up Broadway,you know we're the Broadway
podcast network, so before weget to Apple we'll start at the
B before we go to the A, whichis backwards, but it's okay,
it's A-okay.
I think people would troll meif I did not just ask you about
Hedwig for a second, which, as akid, I would see the billboards
and I didn't understand why itwasn't about Harry Potter's owl.
(21:45):
But you know that's not myquestion, because that's well.
That could be an angry inch ifyou look at the author of that,
but you delivered.
You know such a vulnerableperformance, kind of night after
night.
I wonder how I guess kindnesswhether it was from others or
toward yourself played a role insustaining you through that
(22:05):
like emotional, intense show.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Oh well, this is the opposite of kindness, so that's
still a learning experience itis.
Yeah, I was very unkind tomyself during that time period
and I was spiraling into areally dark place, which is odd
to think, because you wouldthink that, oh, you won a Tony
(22:29):
Award.
This must have been thegreatest thing of your life and
it was a huge accomplishment andI'm so grateful for that and it
was a highlight.
But underneath the surface ofeverything was a real dark
struggle that was going on.
Where I was struggling at homeand then on stage, I was beating
(22:49):
myself up in my head and that,to me, I was like in the
character.
You know, the character is avery beaten down person and only
until they are let go and letfree are they able to be
themselves and have this journeyand transformation.
(23:11):
And what I was doing was I wasfeeling like it was okay to
treat myself horribly like thisbecause it was part of the
character and it made it morereal, and so I was not taking
care of myself.
I was completely burning thecandle at both ends.
I had very little, you know, togive and emotionally I was
(23:37):
extremely unstable and so I wasmaking really weird choices that
I probably wouldn't make if Icould do it all over again.
But, with all of that said, itcreated, you know, a relatable
character for everyone where yousaw someone who was really
(24:00):
going through it and you reallybelieved it and you really
wanted this person to get out ofthis situation and to become
who they really are and want tobe.
And um and by that I connectedwith a lot of people um, which
was really special, and I and Ithink the Hedwig community is is
(24:23):
one of those extremely specialcommunities, that it's small but
mighty the people who have beentouched and have related to
Hedwig and the story of Hedwigand the story of Yitzhak are
forever and like forever fansand forever obsessed with the
show and will always you know,will always be affected anytime
(24:47):
they see the show or hear theshow or any iteration of the
show.
So I think that, like, as faras kindness is concerned, yeah,
there was kindness thrown to mebecause of the situation and
because of what I was doing tomyself.
I didn't see it, Nick, I wasblind to it, because to me it
(25:12):
was all about this character.
It was all about and I wasmaking the character my life,
unintentionally.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And you know, kind of living in the misery of this,
this fight, and I would have itwould be a different experience.
Of course, I think thecharacter would still be wrought
with the pain and everythingthat you need, because when you
live your just living life,you'll feel that You'll, you'll
have enough experience, nomatter what happens to your life
(25:41):
.
You have enough experience tobe able to play a character.
It's really, really true.
I mean, if you've ever felt outof place or like you're not in
your own skin, or like you'vebeen abused or like you've been
hurt, it doesn't even matter.
You could go all the way backto being a child, like a really
(26:03):
little child.
Someone took away your doll andyou can use that emotion for
abandonment or for you, you know, or your parents were supposed
to pick you up from school andthey forgot, and you can use
that like you can use all of it.
So you don't need a ton of lifeexperience in order to infuse a
character with truth.
(26:24):
Yeah, um, so, and I I wasn'tfiguring that out that well yeah
and uh and so, um and so now,if I went back and I played
yitzhak again, but sober, itwould be a.
I would have a differentexperience with it and, um, I
(26:45):
definitely wouldn't put myselfthrough some of the hell that I
put myself through and it wasn'tfor the art, it was for it was.
It was to beat myself down,because the character is so
beaten down.
It was like it was notconscious, it was not
intentional, but it was doing it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I'm sorry you went through that.
First of all, I appreciate yousharing it and I love that you
kind of put the emphasis on howit helps people.
You know you said it helped meconnect with people and it helps
people feel seen.
And I think that speaks to whoyou are, probably the fact that
that's your takeaway.
It's a lesson a lot of actors,I think, have to learn, and it's
really interesting hearing itfrom you that it was during that
(27:22):
time of winning a Tony where alot of us might think, oh,
finally, be kind to myself whenI get that acknowledgement, it's
like you know, maybe it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I think awards are great in the sense that it does
give you something to strive for, but it's like, well, what if I
(27:58):
want to do that?
What if that's something that Iwant to do?
You know, it's like, why can'tI do that?
Or well, people are going tothink that you're struggling.
Or people are going to thinkthis you need to keep up the
idea that you're, you know,unattainable and that people are
going to want you more.
And dah, dah, dah, and it'slike it can have a negative
(28:19):
effect.
Interestingly enough, you knowit's interesting, it can also
have an insanely positive effectwhere it will open all the
doors.
So there's a double edged there.
There's a real double edgethere.
So for anyone who's reallywanting to win an award and is
like gung ho for it and wants it, you have to understand that
there are some things that comewith it that are a surprise, but
(28:45):
there are some things that comewith it that that are a
surprise, surprise, surprise,surprise.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm like, but I want to do that you
know, dumb little role in that,in that show, because I want to
work and then everyone aroundyou is like drink the Kool-Aid
and you're like no, but I kindof want Sprite or Dr Pepper.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, I need to work, I want to work.
It's not about like.
For me, it was never about thestatus you know a status symbol
of I have a Tony award, so youhave to treat me like a Tony
award winner.
It's like I want I.
I want a Tony award, which isamazing.
Like that.
It was a confirmation that Iwas doing a good job at what I
do and that people noticed thatand that's amazing.
(29:32):
But I thrive on working and Ithrive on diving into as many
different things as I possiblycan because it makes me better
at what I do.
And for me, like I want what'sthe point of just doing what I
(29:52):
do and stopping at a certainpoint?
That I get to like as far aslike the, as far as like the,
the level of craft that I do?
Like what's the point ofgetting there and stopping?
Like I want to get there but Iwant to keep going.
I want to get better, I want toexpand the things that I can do
and the ways that I can bringcharacter to life.
(30:12):
Like I want to go for it.
Like, and I do.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, like Dr Seuss, all the places you will go Right
.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
And look where you've gone now.
I mean I got to get to yourfriends and neighbors, which I'm
not just saying this, I mean Ithink most of the world is
loving this show.
It's such a great binge.
I do love that we first meetyou in the show.
We see the contrast of thewhole show.
It's like you're sitting onthis idyllic, beautiful lawn but
then we don't realize you'rekind of terrorizing maybe the
people in the house in a waylike it's a different experience
(30:40):
for them, which is kind of theshow's theme.
In a sense, it's like you're inthis rich neighborhood, but that
underbelly is so different.
So suffice to saycongratulations, thank you.
Yeah, I don't know where I'mgoing with this, but I'm like
reviewing the show live to you.
I just really do find that yourstoryline in particular has a
lot to do with kindness.
Like your character, allie iskind of the heart of the show,
at least in what I've seen sofar.
(31:01):
Can you just speak to how youfleshed her out?
You know, I know you feltconnected to her from the moment
you got the audition.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, I think you know you could get so just from
a like, a perspective ofconnection or the character wise
.
You can get hung up when acharacter description says
bipolar or says you know certainlike words that you're like oh,
got a bipolar, you know, got toresearch, you know it's like.
(31:32):
You can get kind of hung up onthat when you have to realize
that oh wait, no, this person isa person.
It doesn't matter their mentalhealth state.
Whatever I need in the scene,it's written in there and I can
decipher it.
I don't have to go and researchhow you know how it is to be
(31:54):
living on this planet whenyou're bipolar.
Um, cause I think everyone'sexperience is wildly different.
There's massive, there's hugespectrums of that, and so it
didn't really come into playbecause I felt like underneath
(32:15):
it all, there's a level ofsadness that is just palpable
with her, everything she saysand everything she does, there's
a level of like well, this iswho I am and that's okay, and
she is just living through life,just trying to feel like,
(32:42):
normal, like, aren't we all justtrying to feel normal Like?
Aren't we all just trying tofeel normal If?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
it even exists.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
What is normal, but so you know her.
Not me yeah exactly so shestruggles with that.
There's that internal thing inthere and I relate so much to
the struggle of just wanting tolike feel like I'm I'm normal,
like feel like you know, like Ican function on a daily basis
(33:13):
like everyone else seems to do,but somehow I, I sit here and I
feel, like you know, stuck onsomething or dragged down by
something that I feel likeeveryone else could just be fine
with and like why do I have ahard time with this?
Why can't I deal with this?
Why aren't I normal?
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah.
So for her, just the opening ofsitting on a lawn and playing
fake plastic trees by radioheadit, it's such a tell for the
character, it's such a greatintroduction to her.
Um, because that song can sayit all in, and the band, the
(33:57):
radiohead, it says it all, likethe, the angst of it, the
sadness of it, the confusion ofit and the fighting with itself.
I'm a Radiohead fan, so for meit spoke volumes.
And then the rest of the scene.
I could just and be.
(34:20):
You know that little sisterwho's kind of like oh hey,
what's up.
You know, you know I'm kind ofmelancholy right now.
I'm like I'm feeling it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know, how are you how you're not leading, like
you said, with the disease, butinstead just showing this person
reacting in any given moment.
They just have a different, youknow, set of paint brushes than
(34:49):
the rest of us and they're alot more colorful, and sometimes
there's knives inside the brush.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, there's nothing that is, you
know that it's like it's justthat they it's like it's just,
it's just living in a world thatis set up for someone else and
trying to navigate that, andthere's so many people who feel
that way.
I feel like on the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
We talked about it before.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
They say that a lot on that show yeah, I feel like
everyone, it has something wherethey feel like they, they
function in a way that is notset up for them, it's set up for
someone else.
The normal people quote unquote, which doesn't really exist,
and so, therefore, I feel likeAli is a highly relatable
(35:36):
character, because we're alljust trying to survive in this
world and you know, the world isdifficult, it's just difficult
and um, you see people who havetheir lives seemingly together
and you think that you want that, but really they're also
struggling too, so that you know, and you don't have to give it
a name, like you don't have togive it a name like bipolar or
(36:00):
like autism or any of that, ordepression or anything.
I think it's a universalfeeling of everyone feeling like
we're just trying to survive inthis world and put one foot in
front of the other and deal witha world that is set up for
someone else.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
That's brilliant.
What's the song?
You put one foot in front ofthe other.
It's like the Christmas moviePut one foot in front of the
other and soon you'll be walkingout the door.
You have this.
I'm going to save that and postit at Christmas time.
You have this probably going toforget.
You have this beautiful momentwith Jon Hamm I mean many in the
show, but early on in the showwhere you basically say you come
to his house and you say hey,you know you might think that
(36:42):
you suck at life, but in thebrother department you're pretty
amazing and I just like foundthat so touching and it made me
wonder did you like that?
I took my breath away to seethat.
I think, because I'm a brother,I don't know.
Did you two have the time todevelop that relationship or is
that just natural chemistry?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
It's our natural chemistry.
We like, we did a chemistryread when I got a callback which
was a shock.
Um uh, trust, it was a shock, uh, cause I hadn't been booking
anything for a long time.
I was going through, I wasgoing through the like the long,
where you're like, uh, another,another self tape.
I'm not going to get this, I'lljust put myself on tape really
(37:22):
quick, just do, you know, do areal whatever, like, I'm just
gonna say I did it, put it outthere.
You know it was one of those.
So it was like, well, what?
Yeah, um, and they did achemistry check with me and john
over zoom, which is hilarious,and uh, and they were like, yeah
, you got it, I it.
I was like, oh, okay, this iswild, what?
(37:43):
So when we went to go film,honestly, it was like setting up
this chemistry with John waspretty instantaneous when we met
, because he feels to me wellfor me.
You know, I don't know histhing.
Maybe it was really hard forhim, I don't know, but for me it
was easy.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I have a transcript from here, let me uh from him.
Let me read it now because forme it was.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
it was an immediate sense of home and big brother
like protection.
It's that big brotherprotection.
I felt like I got a hug and Iwas like okay, okay, yeah, this
is an openness, and there's justan openness to chemistry.
There's an openness there thatit's hard to explain.
(38:33):
But if you have one, if you'reworking on chemistry with
someone, and you have one personwho's like kind of, yeah, you
know, it's really it'simpossible to have chemistry
with that person because theyare walled, yeah, it's like Mom.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Shannon and Superstar with the tree, Although the
tree doesn't.
I don't know if you've seenthat scene.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, you've got to watch Superstar if you haven't
seen it, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Okay, sorry, I'm just being a muppet.
Now I know what I'm sayingRight.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So when you try to have chemistry with someone, I
did have that experience where Iwas like, hey, you know and
they were like they're like overhere oh no.
Oh, we're never gonna.
This is impossible.
Like hi, you know, I'm here,I'm open, open.
So just the simple fact thathe's so he's a very giving actor
(39:19):
and he's very open and he'll gothere with you.
He'll just start riffing offthings and going off book.
And you're like, oh all right,yeah, let's riff, let's do this.
I'm on the same page as you.
It's like a match of energy.
So it was instantaneous, likethe chemistry and the setup and
(39:40):
the feeling like this guy youknow who I had just met was my
brother forever.
It was fast and easy and kind,kindness.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about kindness with
someone so sort of iconic.
I mean, this actor has donesuch amazing things, People all
over the world know him.
Director has done such amazingthings, People all over the
world know him.
And I just wonder too, as anumber one on the call sheet,
are there things?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
you witnessed that you really appreciated from like
a kindness standpoint.
Yeah, actually he's not Okay.
So there's a lot of people whoare like I'm not going to take a
note from another actor.
A lot of people are like I'mnot taking a note from another.
I'm like uh-uh, no, like youhave to work together you cannot
always have a director come toyou and be like, how can I help?
(40:30):
You've got to be open to that.
And so anytime John was like,oh hey, could you just like wait
a second so I can finish thismove, so we can have that line
in the clear, blah, blah, blah.
You know, I mean he's like beendoing this forever.
I'm like, oh yeah, totally noproblem.
Like absolutely of course.
Yeah, happy to be here for you,you know.
(40:51):
And he would do the same for me,like if I asked for anything
that I needed, he would do thesame for me.
So, and it opened the stage forme to ask questions as well.
So it creates this again, thistrust, an actor trust, where
you're like I, you know, I trustthat you, you are going to tell
(41:12):
me what you need.
I trust that you are know yourshit enough, like that you're
going to deliver and I can feedoff of your delivery and we can
kind of feed the energy back andforth.
And that's going to kind ofcreate the symbiosis with the
chemistry and with what we needto create.
(41:34):
So I think with John, I mean A,he's been doing it for so long.
He's very professional.
No nonsense, love that.
Very professional, no nonsense,love that.
But he's also open, free andhonest and that honesty that I
experienced helped me trust andthat instant connection came
from just the open and honestyand the trust Like I got this,
(41:59):
you got this, we got this andnow we're going to like improv
some stuff and we'll have somefun with it here and have some
fun like who cares?
yeah, how are you great?
Yeah, so it just is like um,it's a relaxation that happens
with the trust, and I also haveum scenes with rameen caramalu,
who I've done show, who I'vedone something with before, and
(42:22):
and so we had to have all thischemistry and that was super
easy because it was just like,oh, my God, hey, how are you?
Okay, you know like yeah, soit's just one of those things,
it's like you got.
But when I met Ramin, Iremember being like oh, you're
open, like I can feel how openyou are to wanting to have the
(42:42):
chemistry and doing a good jobwith it.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, you don't need to find a key to try and pick
someone's block.
I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
It should be like, just if you remain open as an
actor and you're like you can,it's like it's almost like
you're opening up, to be likeI'm going to open up to you
because I want you to trust me.
You know there, it's not a gift, it's an invitation.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Essentially, oh, I love that.
Well, we all have an invitationto keep watching the show
because it already got renewed,which is wild and it speaks to
the kind of show it is.
I don't know if I have aninvitation to ever see Ramin
again, because I was a reader atABC and he came into audition,
which was cool to see because hewas a big Broadway star and he
was going in for a role when aton of people were going and he
(43:31):
was nervous, whatever, and Icame out and I was just like uh
ramen, ramen, um kirimalu, andhe was actually.
He was really nice about it,but I didn't, I actually didn't
know.
I think he was in Les Mis atthe time.
I didn't, I actually didn'tknow.
I think he was in Les Mis atthe time.
I hadn't seen it.
I don't know.
I'm the worst.
It's okay, it's tricky becauseyou don't want to over like
research people, because youwant to meet people as people,
but you want to know things.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's okay.
You know what?
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thank you Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Trust People.
Do it all the time, really Allthe time, lena, lena.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I always get a where's Mary, because my last
name is Peter Paul and it's likePeter.
Paul and Mary and I'm like shedied actually Mary and her
family.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Anyway, You're like, my mom's name was Mary.
She's dead.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
They'll be like you're like I'm fine.
There's like a twin of mesuddenly with a knife.
It's like what's going on there?
I'm going to walk away.
So you know you sing in theshow and I wonder, like, do you
think this show could be amusical?
I know that's a weird randomquestion, guess you haven't
gotten it before, but I want toknow.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I don't want it to be a musical.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Can we stop making?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
everything musicals.
I'm so exhausted by it.
Not that it's fine because it'snot made for me, like these
things are.
These shows are not made for meto watch, which is fine because
I can't anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Well, you always I've heard you say like a show will
find its audience and if it's agood show, it'll last with that
audience.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, it's true.
Look at Stereophonic is a greatexample.
Three and a half hour play.
A three and a half hour play,honey, that, yeah, three and a
half hours.
I remember when I heard it wasthree and a half I was like oh
God, right, because no one wantsto see a three and a half hour
play.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I know A Long Day's Journey Into Night with Jessica
Lange.
I did want to watch her, butthat was.
It was a long day's journey.
I'm just going to say that.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
But this is a okay.
So three and a half hour play.
First barrier no stars.
Second barrier Not a known IP.
Third barrier Sells out Hugehit.
I went and saw it.
I thought it was incredible andthat three and a half hours I
was like I could watch this forsix.
That's amazing.
(45:44):
It's so good and it was so welldone.
And that's the thing Not allthe producers actually.
There was actually a producer,apparently, that pulled out from
funding the Off-Broadwaybecause they were like if you
don't cast a star, I am notgoing to fund this show.
And they didn't.
They were like no, we don'twant a star in it, we want the
(46:06):
show to speak for itself.
That's what I think.
Ultimately, what happened withHedwig was, after they had
established it as this big, hugething with Neil Patrick Harris
in it, they forgot to focus onhow good the show is.
It doesn't need a star.
You don't need a star to sellHedwig.
(46:26):
The show is so good, you don'tneed a star to sell that show.
And so I think they lost sight.
They got the star thing andthen they got trapped in the
trappings of like must have astar Instead of being like Neil
Patrick Harris.
Neil Patrick Harris is amazing.
Now let's focus on howincredible this show is.
Let's focus on how incredibleeverybody else is in the show.
(46:48):
Let's focus on how beautifuland how much you must see the
show, no matter who is in it,because the show that's really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, because I think you can get stuck in the
trappings of well, you have tohire a star in order to sell
tickets, but if you know, it'stricky because on the opposite
side too, I want to shout outyou know, little Shop, I think,
is actually doing a great job ofit's an iconic show and people
want to see that show.
But they're also putting invery surprising people for the
roles that we've come to knowand love and I think that's a
(47:16):
cool sweet spot in this currentindustry where again
everything's being made into amusical.
They want the IP or they wantlike a big name when there's no
work anywhere, so like GeorgeClooney's coming to Broadway and
all these people, and so it issort of a tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
It is.
There's a sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Oh well, I know I got to let you go.
Lina, can you please just sharea kindness tip for listeners?
So can you leave us withsomething you would like
everybody out there to do ontheir own corner of the world to
take action and try and makethe world a little brighter
overall.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Heavy questions.
I know I'm sorry Got to be kind, honestly, it's be a listener,
just be a listener, because alot of times people just need
someone who can really listen.
And they don't need a fix, theydon't need suggestions, they
don't need help.
(48:10):
They don't need the help is thelistening, and you can learn a
lot if you just listen tosomeone.
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I'm going to write that down and print it on my
wall.
And look at it Oops, that's sobeautiful.
I'm going to write that downand print it on my wall and look
at it.
Oops, that's kind of what Johndoes for you and you know, to
bring it back to your show alittle bit Like he doesn't seem
at least this point forwardtrying to fix Allie.
He seems like he's just kind ofthere for her.
Yeah, safe place to land.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Which is a beautiful place for us to land.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yes, and.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I've so enjoyed this time with you, Lena.
Thank you so much.
Thank you and I'm grateful thatwe have you to look up to in
this business.
Oh, thank you, because I thinkyou're doing great stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Thank you, peter, paul and Mary.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Oh, thank you, Lina.
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