August 19, 2025 • 67 mins
Emmy-Nominated Casting Director Shaheen Baig sits down with host Robert Peterpaul to share her process for discovering raw talent and creating safe environments to thrive. Her acclaimed work on Netflix's Adolescence demonstrates how kindness, authenticity, and inclusivity can lead to extraordinary performances and productions.
This episode covers:
• Practical game-changing advice for in-person and virtual auditions.
• Finding undiscovered talent through extensive community searches, including Facebook Marketplace.
• How Owen Cooper stood out in a sea of 500+ self-tapes for Adolescence.
• Creating a supportive environment when working with young actors on challenging material.
• The importance of staying true to yourself rather than trying to fit industry molds.
• How being a "good person" is essential to the casting and production process and more.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, I'm Shaheen Baig.
I'm a casting director.
I'm very short, I'm about fivefoot three, and this is a really
painful experience for me doinga slate, because I really don't
like watching slates.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks, I love that.
That was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi actors, it's your friend, robert Peter Paul, and
I'm so happy you tuned in Today.
I am thrilled to welcome aphenomenal guest, someone whose
eye for talent has shaped someof the most compelling
performances of our time.
She's a champion of inclusivityand kindness, the force behind
careers we now bask in the glowof from Florence Pugh to
(01:07):
adolescence breakout, owenCooper, and now she's an Emmy
nominee.
I'm talking about castingdirector Shaheen Baig.
Shaheen Baig formed her owncompany in 2002 after working
alongside some of the world'sleading casting directors.
Since then, she's castaward-winning work across film
(01:31):
and television with both new andestablished directors.
She's also a trustee for OpenDoor, helping young people
access drama schools, andco-founded the Casting Assistant
Certificate Course at theNational Film and Television
School, both part of her missionto create a more inclusive
industry.
In 2023, shaheen received theRoyal Television Society's Bard
(01:55):
Medal for her outstandingcontribution to television and
representation for the WestMidlands.
She's a proud member of BAFTA,the Academy of Motion Picture
Arts and Sciences, the CastingDirectors Guild and the Casting
Society of America.
Today, we're diving into herlatest innovative project,
netflix's Adolescence, whichracked up an impressive 13 Emmy
(02:18):
nominations.
It's so good.
With a unique casting process,shaheen once again proved her
uncanny ability to bottlelightning and let it shine.
If you haven't seen Adolescence,I cannot recommend it enough.
Please pause right now and gowatch.
(02:39):
Shaheen was so kind as to breakdown the making of the show,
while exploring topics liketrusting the process, essential
audition advice and even castingactors from Facebook
Marketplace.
I'm a little under the weather,but I know this episode totally
healed me and filled my cup,leaving me feeling empowered,
(03:01):
and I hope it does the same foryou, friend.
Here's how we roll withEmmy-nominated casting director.
Shaheen Big.
Hi Shaheen, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I'm very good, I'm very good, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Thanks for being here and I imagine you're good
because I believe Adolescencehas 13 Emmy nominations.
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Thank you.
I think we're all absolutelythrilled and surprised.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, it's been great what I perceive as good people
win.
You know, something I admireabout you is that you talk a lot
about kindness and empathythroughout the entertainment
industry and sort of leadingwith that as someone who's
become a leader, and so thankyou for that, first of all, and
I love when people that havethat as their philosophy, kind
(03:58):
of you know get the acclaim thatthey so deserve.
I mean, this series also isjust brilliant.
I can't say enough about itthat they so deserve.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, this series also is just brilliant.
I can't say enough about it.
Oh, I mean, I think, actually,I think the way we made this
show is a really beautifulexample of fairness and kindness
and how to look after peopleproperly.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh, I love that and I can't wait to dive into all of
that, shaheen.
But in looking at your amazingcareer, one thing I noticed is
that so many actors you'vechampioned from you know
Florence Pugh early in hercareer with Lady Macbeth, to now
Owen Cooper in Adolescence.
They credit you or talk aboutyou as seeing something in them
before the rest of the industrydid, and so I just wonder off
(04:42):
the bat here is there somethingyou're consciously looking for
when you meet with a new talent,or is it just an instinct that
you've learned to trust in yourgut?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think casting is a hugely instinctive craft and
then it becomes much moretechnical as you go along.
You know, I think I've workedon a lot of projects where I've
gone out and searched.
You know I've done castingsearches so I've worked on a lot
of projects with young people,with young casts, where I've had
(05:12):
to do big casting searches andthrough that process you do
discover whether it's goingright back to Peter Pan, which
was one of the first features Idid, and George Mackay came
through that, or it's actuallythe Falling was where I first
met Florence and then LadyMacbeth, so it's sort of, you
(05:36):
know, juno Temple through Noteson a Scandal.
You know, these are allprojects where I had to go and
do big casting searches.
So I think that's why there's alittle bit of a pattern in my
work because I'm choosing to doa lot of projects that are being
cast in such a, or can be castin such an open way.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, I love that and you know it's interesting
because as a castingprofessional it's not like you
can always wave a magic wand andfind the perfect fit for a
talent.
When you meet them and fall inlove with them there's not
always a part, and I lovedlearning.
I think Florence Pugh in aninterview said that you helped
her get her first agent.
So sort of the things you dobehind the scenes that maybe go
unnoticed for the most part arecontributing to making this
(06:23):
industry a little bit brighter.
You know, can you talk to me alittle bit about that?
It seems like you're so busy.
I mean, even for adolescenceyou watched 500 tapes.
I think Just making the time todo that is so special.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
But I think you have a responsibility when you cast
in that way and when you cast ina very open way, you step
outside of the system and you gointo communities and you do
open calls or you do streetcasting.
You know the casting team have,and the production have, a
responsibility for care.
You know, for someone's careand well-being.
(06:57):
So it's important for me and myteam to make sure that that
people are doing all right andwhat do they want to do with
that production finishes?
Do they think they might wantto do it again?
Some people have no sense ifthey want to do it again until
they've actually seen themselveson the screen.
So it's really just helpingthem, and often their families,
(07:17):
through that process.
And the job shouldn't finish theminute you cast somebody in the
role.
The job shouldn't finish theminute you cast somebody in the
role, you know, and obviously itit then becomes, um, not just
your responsibility, it'sproductions as well, but the
casting team are the firstpeople that a young actor
encounters.
So I think it really makessense for that continuity to
(07:40):
continue as much as possible andand if I can, you know if I can
help any any of these youngpeople with advice, or if it's
like thinking about okay, I'dlike to do more signing with an
agent.
Which agent should I sign with?
I've been offered these twojobs.
What should I do?
Like?
(08:00):
I'm really happy to be asounding board because I want
people to make the bestdecisions for themselves and the
best decisions for their kindof career path going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I love that, you know .
I'm just curious who would yousay, is that for you as a
casting director?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, I'm very, very lucky because I trained with
amazing casting directors.
So I trained with DebbieMcWilliams, Gina Jay, Patsy
Pollock, Abby Cohen, and theyare four brilliant women who you
know, if I ever need any advice, I can talk to.
So you just have to pass it on,and it's really important to
(08:41):
pass it on.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I love that passing it on, and you know I've
mentioned it on here before.
Hi listeners, I'm sorry if Ikeep repeating myself, but I
feel like casting professionalsare community makers.
You know, you put together acommunity, especially when you
look at something likeadolescence, which we're here,
and I want to dive into thecasting process behind that.
So with that in mind, I thinkfirst I'm going to read the
(09:03):
little logline here for anybodywho hasn't seen Adolescence
Maybe pause it actually, andthen come back and listen after
you've watched, because I don'twant to spoil anything.
A family's world turns upsidedown when 13-year-old Jamie
Miller is arrested for murderinga schoolmate.
The charges against their sonforce them to confront every
parent's worst nightmare.
(09:23):
Forced them to confront everyparent's worst nightmare.
Okay, shaheen, what was yourreaction the first time you read
the script for Adolescence?
I think there was only oneepisode that you got.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's right.
So I was sort of told thepremise and then I was sent
episode one and I obviouslyunderstood how they were going
to make the drama in one shot.
And I read it and my initialthought was that's a very
difficult subject, it's a verydifficult subject matter and
(09:56):
it's a huge undertaking for ayoung person.
And I think those were my firstthoughts.
I was excited by it because Ithought Jack's script was
fantastic and the team you knowthe team involved lots of people
I'd worked with before and Iwas like, ok, there's an amazing
team on this, but how are wegoing to achieve this and how
(10:27):
are we going to find this kindof brilliant ensemble that can
do this in the way that it needsto be done?
So I think that was my, myfirst feeling, which wasn't fear
, but it was like, um, okay, howare we gonna do it?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
and was there a specific philosophy, I guess,
that guided you throughout thiscasting process?
Did you have something youreturned to whenever you had to
make a tough decision?
In regards to the conversationsyou had with the other
creatives, was there somethingyou kind of latched on to
overall?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Sorry, my cat is trying to jump on the computer.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, bring him out.
What's your cat's name?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I'm trying to head him off, but I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
No, I love it.
Oh hi, so adorable.
What's your cat's name?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No, I love it.
Oh hi, so adorable.
What's your cat's name?
I'm so sorry, he's called Felix.
I'm really sorry, but he wantsto be here.
Don't be sorry, this is amazing.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And clingy.
My cats are trying to break in.
They're like this under thedoor right now and they've been
screaming the whole time, soI've been surprised you haven't
noticed that either.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's used the cat flap because he's clever oh so
okay.
So please ask me the questionagain, because I was trying to
make up my cat, as you wereasking me oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
My question was just do you have any pets?
And it was answered so no.
I was wondering was there aspecific philosophy that you and
the creatives talked about thatyou could kind of latch on to
in the difficult moments of thisproduction, like something you
could always return to when youhad to make difficult decisions?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
good, kind people.
So I think you know that was adecision from day one.
You know we were making a drama, a difficult drama, a tough
subject in quite a unique,challenging way, and so,
therefore, it was reallyimportant that we could do that
with also with really kind, goodpeople.
And I think that was a bigconsideration for the casting
and also just to make sure thatthe casting felt coherent and it
(12:31):
really, I suppose, chimed withthe tone of the script, and that
was to find actors andperformances that felt as
truthful as possible andperformances that felt as
truthful as possible.
And that's something wediscussed from the get-go and so
really those were the twothings Everyone be good people.
(12:52):
We're trying to.
You know I know the productionworked really hard to make sure
that the team were full of youknow great people Because, you
know, when you're working on adrama that is challenging, you
want everyone to have a goodtime and actually it was a very
happy set.
It was a very happy prep.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was a really happy set, which, you know, is
surprising when you look at thesubject matter, but I think it's
crucial yeah, it makes all thedifference, especially for
something like this where everyepisode is one continuous shot
and I loved geeking out andreading about all the
intricacies.
Even as far as you know,stephen would go to start the
car sometimes and the carwouldn't start and then you'd
(13:29):
have to do a whole new take.
So if you don't have kindpeople, and when these little
frustrations occur, it just itcould make it not as pleasant of
an atmosphere, I wonder.
Is there something you feellike you had to unlearn that
you've really learned over theyears as a casting director for
this process?
Was there something you had tolet go of that you found a
(13:51):
little tricky?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
of pressure on us of like, okay, when are we going to
find this, when are we going tofind Jamie?
And whenever you're casting inthis way, it's a process and you
kind of have to trust theprocess.
It will move fast, it will moveslow, it will be difficult.
You may not, you know, you mayget a bunch of tapes in and you
won't see anybody and you won'tsee anybody, and then you'll see
10 people that are brilliant.
And I think my sort of mantrato not mantra, but to everybody
(14:28):
was like please trust theprocess, because it will.
It will come good, but we andit might feel a bit frustrating
and it may not be moving asquickly as you want it to,
because we all desperately wanta solution, but you have to just
let this take the shape itneeds to take and let us do the
(14:49):
legwork, do the research, do theyou know all of that groundwork
to find the right people.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
That's something I always find to be.
The magic sauce of our industryis that especially when I'm,
you know, working on a theaterproject, everything does tend to
come together last minute.
You know there's a long techweek or whatever it is, and
somehow it really just does cometogether.
So trusting the process is areally great reminder.
That said, the show reallydemanded a lot of its actors and
at times it's like a playwithout breaks.
(15:18):
You know, people have said howdo you go about sensing, as
you're starting this castingprocess, if someone is not only
a truthful storyteller but hasthe stamina to really live in
every scene and join an ensemblelike, how do you cast for
stamina?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
well, I think that, um, what we were looking for
with the whole cast adult andyoung cast was that anything
could go wrong at any time.
You know, a scene could bewritten in a very specific way
that you've rehearsed, rehearsed, but something could happen.
The light switch might not work, or you know and so I think we
(15:56):
needed actors that were notnecessarily theater trained I
think that's helpful but weneeded actors that weren't
afraid of some improvisation,because I think there had to be
an element of that in thefilming, and not all actors like
to improvise, and so we had toreally think about that.
(16:18):
And then, certainly, when wewere casting all the young roles
, we did a lot of work with them.
You know, we worked from thescript, we improvised around the
script, we tried lots ofdifferent things just to see
what their focus was.
You know, how was repetition,how was their concentration, and
that became crucial.
But, I think, bar two of theyoung actors in amongst the
(16:45):
young cast, for everybody elseit was their first screen.
What screen work?
So we, we took a chance, butbut they all went through a
process of workshopping andauditioning and, um, trying lots
of different things to thepoint where we felt confident
they would be able to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And it paid off and I can't wait to get into Jamie.
But before we get there, Icannot believe just the corners
of the world that you search tofind actors.
I mean, you were in FacebookMarketplace, which sounds so
random, but it makes sense whenI think about it.
Is there a really unusual placethat you found an actor for
this project?
I mean, I guess FacebookMarketplace is pretty unusual
(17:28):
but anything sort of unorthodoxyou can share.
I think that Felix, I guessknows as well, Felix is
desperate for attention.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
He wants to get into casting.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I love that.
I think catting lose the Smaybe.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Exactly to get into casting.
I love that.
I think catting lose the Smaybe.
I think Facebook marketplace isbrilliant because that's where
a lot of parents are constantlyon there looking for things, or
grandparents, aunts and uncles.
So often you're not justtargeting, say, where young
people go, you're targetingwhere their siblings, where
their parents, where theirrelatives might go, and so you
(18:10):
know community hubs, all sortsof random places.
I mean I've cast, you know,I've gone into a garage and cast
a mechanic, I've gone in.
There's all sorts of mad things.
Um, you know, you can findpeople wherever and however, and
and it can happen in the mostrandom of ways and with
(18:33):
adolescence we chose about fivecities in the North of England.
We researched those cities, wemade these kind of huge,
sprawling databases of you knoweverything that we thought might
be relevant, from schools,drama groups, youth groups,
sports clubs, community centres,youth centres, anything that in
(18:56):
some way felt relevant to theage group.
We were looking for.
And then we contacted everybody,we spoke to everybody, we
street cast in those areas, weflyered.
We also looked at young peoplewho were professionally
represented.
I mean, you just do everythingthat you could possibly do to
(19:18):
find the right person.
You have to start from a placeof volume, because you have to
go out wide in order to find theperson.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and you had a fairly wide net at first.
In regards to age, I know thatthere were a lot of
conversations surrounding ageand at one point you thought
maybe 18 to play younger, andthen it kind of turned into 13
to a few 17 year olds, and soyou know, how does that come
into play technically?
Because I just think of likeunion rules and all these things
that you have to kind of havein your brain when you're
(19:47):
working with kids.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, we talked about that a lot at the beginning.
We talked about sort ofcompliance and you know, how
young could we cast?
Because, obviously, the subjectmatter and the age of the
character we needed to be hugelymindful of that matter in the
age of the character.
We needed to be hugely mindfulof that, and so we initially
(20:09):
were casting from 13 to sort of17, 18, to play younger, but
we'd all decided that 13 was theyoungest that we could cast.
And then we sort of started onthe search and it just became
clear very quickly that theolder people just it didn't work
, it didn't make sense.
The youth of Jamie is such acrucial character for this drama
(20:34):
and we had to get that right.
And so it became clear that,okay, we need to focus on
younger people and that's adecision we made like really,
really early um, and itdefinitely felt like 13, 14 was
the, was the sweet spot and thatyou know, even just thinking
(20:57):
about watching it the first timewe see jamie when they burst
into his room, there's something.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Visually, there's very different feelings that are
evoked as an audience member.
If, if you burst into the roomof a 13, 14 year old versus an
18 year old, you know it's.
It's immediately you're kind ofsucked in.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And it's shocking because he absolutely is a child
.
And so you're going into thebedroom of a child and you know,
and Owen looks so young.
You know, because he what he is, he is young and he was young.
But, um, that was really reallycrucial.
We had to get that in like theopening five, ten minutes,
(21:36):
because it was essential.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We got that right yeah, well, you did, and it all
centers around the brilliantactor who plays jamie.
Everybody's talking about Jamie, to quote another film, owen
Cooper, who essentially was anundiscovered talent, I believe,
who sent in a tape.
And you have such a knack forunearthing, you know new
creatives, as we discussed atthe top here.
What was it about Owen'sinitial tape that kind of caught
(21:59):
your eye.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean we were getting so many tapes.
We had hundreds and hundreds oftapes.
We must have had, I think,between five six hundred from
the open call and we had about60, 70 from the professionals
and I think owen he it was veryconfident, it was a very
confident tape.
(22:22):
He had this you know, he wasvery young, angelic face, just a
very clear, confident read andit was like, okay, this young
person is really interesting,let's see some, let's see him
again and let's see some more.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Hmm, you know you mentioned those five, 600
hundred tapes.
I wonder, as a casting pro, howdo you stay focused yourself
while watching so many?
You know I imagine it becomes ablur at some point and I know
that you really do watch everytape.
I know some people are like doyou watch every tape?
And I know you do.
How do you stay focused whenyou're watching so much?
Because if you're not in theright sort of like mindset, I
(23:03):
imagine people slip through thecracks sometimes.
Could you just speak a littlebit to that?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I think that, again, you know when you're casting in
this quite specific way, youknow people are really going out
on a limb to send you a tape,especially teenagers.
You know young people goingokay, I'll take a chance on this
.
So you know young people going,okay, I'll take a chance on
this.
So you know we have to watchall the tapes because it's you
(23:29):
know, it's a respectful thing todo is watch everything that
comes through.
And you just have to be very,very organized with your time.
And you know myself, my team,phil the director, joe the
producer, we were watchingeverything.
My team, phil the director, joethe producer, we were watching
everything and we were filteringand we were sending through,
and I just had to be very tightwith my time and go okay, I'm
(23:52):
going to, I'm going to put anhour aside and watch another 30
tapes or another 40 tapes, orhowever.
You just do it every day andyou get yourself into a rhythm
whereby, okay, I'm going towatch another whole load of
tapes this evening, and that'sjust what we did.
We did it every single day.
My office would upload duringthe day.
(24:13):
As quick as we were uploading,more tapes were coming in and
then we were watching anddiscussing.
So you have to get yourselfinto a routine and actually
there's a huge amount of admin.
It's boring, but there's amassive amount admin that goes
with casting in this way,because I can't tell you how
(24:36):
many people send tapes without afull name or a date of birth,
or you know all the things youneed in order to be able to
process that tape yeah
Speaker 2 (24:46):
there's a huge amount of back and forth and admin
before I can share a tape withthe director and how long, I
guess, after you like someone'stape and pass it along to the
director does it take for you toeither call them back in or
reach out to them we did it inways.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, we did it in ways, but I think that we I
think we did sort of four orfive waves of auditions, so we'd
have x amount of tapes in, we'dgo through them, then we'd ask
them to do another tape withsome direction and with some
notes and then, based on thattape, we would would call them
(25:25):
in.
So I think we did about five orsix waves of auditions and then
we moved into workshops wherewe sort of got people working
with, um, a couple of actors andtrying out different scenes and
and improvising around scenes,and so yeah, and then the
workshop was a much smallergroup, because by that point
(25:47):
we'd kind of got it down, Ithink, initially to about 10,
and then we got it down to five.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I'm very curious about the workshops of it all.
But before we get there Iwonder, you know, with the
self-tapes, I hear a lot ofcasting professionals say that
the first 10-ish seconds of atake are really important
because that's how you grabsomeone's attention.
Overall, is there anythingactors can tangibly do in a
self-tape to stand out?
I mean, are you someone whoreally thinks that the beginning
(26:17):
or the moment before you startthe scene, like coming in with
that energy, is super important?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
like coming in with that.
Energy is super important.
I think that sometimes I mean,we're in a climate of self-tapes
and there's a lot of self-tapesand it has its pros and cons.
It's never quite the same asbeing in the room.
But on this project, because wehad young people based all over
the north of England, we sortof had to do it this way or
start off this way.
But I think with a self-tape,spend no more time on it than
(26:46):
you would if you were meeting inthe room.
I think, sometimes actors spendso much time on a self-tape
because they can edit and theycan delete and they can do it
again.
And I think sometimes you're anactor spending too much time on
a self-tape.
So try and be as tight with itas you would be if you were
(27:07):
coming into an audition in theroom.
And I think, also, with aself-tape, I'm not looking for
anything, I'm not looking forfireworks, I'm not looking for
it to be.
It doesn't have to be likeprofessionally shot, because
some people don't have thatfacility to do that.
As long as I can see and hearyou, that's the most important
(27:27):
thing.
Um, and I just you know, I meanlook, it sounds like a cliche,
but I just like really honest,read reads and I think don't
dress it up too much, don'tlayer it with too many, don't
overthink it.
You know, just be quiteinstinctive about it, because
(27:47):
often with a self-tape, yourinstinctive reaction to it is
often the best one.
Then you come in the room andyou work on it in the room and
you can try loads of differentthings.
But I think for a self tapeit's the casting director's
responsibility to give the actoras much background information
(28:09):
as they're able to.
So to give you notes on thecharacter, to try and give you a
sense of what's coming beforeand after the scene you're about
to do, and then I would say beinstinctive about it, because,
um, I think any more, anythingmore than that can be sometimes
become a little bit overlycomplicated yeah, overly raw.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I've said this before , but it's almost like
overcooked pasta sometimes ifyou let it boil too much.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, and know when to stop and know when to be like
.
Actually I don't need to dothat anymore.
I've done it enough.
I have to let it go now.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I think that's fantastic advice.
I wonder, you know, since a lotof us are taping I mean, I'm
looking at my ring light in thecorner of the room and I'm
getting triggered are taping onour own in the corner of the
room and I'm getting triggered?
Are taping on our own Is therea favorite adjustment you have
to give to actors to kind of getthem out of their own head in
this world of self-tapes?
You know?
Is there like a tangibleadjustment that you give folks
that you find really works?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I mean, I think it's really, really hard for an actor
to be self-taping with an appthat is reading the lines for
you or your mom or your auntieor your little sister, or I
think it's really tough and Iand I would really encourage,
where possible, actors to talkto one another and help each
(29:29):
other as much as they can sothat you build your own
community in when it comes todoing tape, so you can help each
other, because you know, youknow, by being in the room, if
you're reading with somebodythat is giving you absolutely
zero.
It's quite hard it's quite hardto to navigate yourself around
(29:50):
that scene or be spontaneousbecause you're reading with
someone that isn't going to giveyou anything and.
I think that is key.
It's also key to like theconfidence in doing the tape,
and not everyone is going tohave this ability, but I think
if you do have friends that areactors, lean on each other to
help each other to make yourselftapes, because it's going to be
(30:13):
more enjoyable and also you'reprobably going to get something
that feels much more natural.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That's beautiful and the natural and the confidence
is what you found in Owen Cooperfor Jamie.
You know I've heard you allalso talk about the fact that he
was so focused and then he alsohad the essential skill of
listening, so it was kind of adream combo for a young actor.
You know what, I guess.
What do you think allowssomeone to stay that present?
(30:41):
We talk a lot about beingpresent in the scene and I think
it can kind of become thislofty term in the sky that we
aren't sure how to reachsometimes.
But yeah, do you have anyadvice for sort of how you've
seen even him or other actorsget present and sort of be in
that focus mindset?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well, I think with Owen, you know he was going to
excuse me, he was going to adrama club so he was already you
know.
I guess you know they wereworking on things like focus and
looking at script.
So he already sort of he cameto the audition with some
knowledge of, he knew what ascene of dialogue looked like
(31:18):
and he knew how to be focused inthat moment.
But that's still nothingcompared to what he had to do
actually on the day.
I mean, I would say it's reallyimportant for actors to really
kind of look at who they'remeeting.
So who is the director you'remeeting?
(31:39):
What have they done before?
What's the tone and style oftheir work?
What kind of actors have theyworked with?
What's their style?
Who's the writer?
What's the writer done before?
Who's the casting director?
What's their taste, what kind ofprojects do they work on?
I think all of taste, what kindof projects do they work on?
I think all of that knowledgekind of hopefully empowers the
(32:03):
actor to come into the roomfeeling like, okay, I've done a
bit of research on the peopleI'm meeting and I have some
sense of their taste and I havesome sense of the tone of the
projects that they work on andthat, I think, will naturally
feed into the way you approachthe read.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I think that's really smart.
I also thought it was sowonderful that I think when you
narrowed it down to five Jamie'sand then eventually went with
Owen is it true you ended upgiving all the other Jamie's a
part in the show, Like thatdoesn't usually happen.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
No, it doesn't.
And I think, you know, everysingle young person that we
shortlisted for the role wasbrilliant in completely
different ways, and that's fivedifferent versions of
adolescence.
But you know, we were all like,like these are great kids,
let's give them a part.
And we were lucky because wehad episode two, which was full
of young people, and so actuallythe joy of episode two is that
(33:07):
so many young people that we metalong the way made it into that
episode.
So, um, that's a really greatthing because you kind of go,
okay, well, here we have anopportunity to to cast people
and they all have their moment,they all have like a defined
moment in the series, and soit's a real joy, it's a
privilege, to be able to do thatyeah, I think that's so special
(33:30):
his name's escaping me jamie'sfriend that eventually is also
arrested kane who it was?
kane who plays the role?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Kane.
Yeah, I don't know if he wasoriginally a Jamie or what, but
was it purposeful to castsomeone who sort of looked like
Owen in that role?
Because to me, as I'm watchingit, I'm thinking, oh, that could
be him on the team, maybe it'snot.
Maybe it's not Jamie.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No, actually we didn't think about that at all.
He just had the mostextraordinary face and was
perfect for that, that scene,you know, with Ashley Walters
and and just felt like such akid who was completely lost in
the moment.
You know, absolutely lost andclueless and didn't know quite
(34:15):
know what to do, and I thoughtKane played that really
beautifully.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, definitely, and as far as I mean, I know it's a
whole separate, other division.
But background and extras,casting for that episode with
all the kids in the school, youknow, did you kind of have your
hand in that?
I know some of them wereactually students of the school,
but I just I imagine that's adifferent type of background
work than normal, because youreally have to be on your toes
(34:40):
and focused as well.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and I think that's also all power to the
production team because theywere able to get that many young
people to focus and moment andalso to the adult cast because
you know I love the naturalismof the teachers and I love that
they feel like reallyrecognisable teachers that would
work in a comprehensive schoolin England and maybe that helped
(35:07):
the young people respond tothem in such a natural way and
actually most young people thatI've spoken to, including my
daughter, episode two is theirfavourite episode because I
think it feels very recognisableas an actual school that you
would go to.
Because I think sometimes wewatch school on television and
(35:30):
it's like a heightened versionof school or it doesn't really
feel truthful and I think thatlots of people have it felt very
familiar to them.
So I think, that's anachievement to the actors and
the production team for makingthat happen.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, and sort of another reason to praise
teachers out there, because youalso get a glimpse of how much
they're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, in looking at, I guess, the other adults in the
series, of course, stephenGraham, who.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, in looking at, I guess, the other adults in the
series.
Of course Stephen Graham, whois one of the creators, is also
in the show physically, because,I think you can worry about
that too much.
You can be like oh, they're theeye color and the hair color
and it doesn't feel right.
You just have to findindividuals that feel like they
all fit together and that's anenergy more often than not, and
(36:31):
so I didn't worry about that toomuch because we just got to
find the right individuals.
And Amelie had such a reallybeautiful kind of quietness and
she had a very different energyto Owen and I just thought, okay
, that's a really interestingperson to put in the mix.
(36:54):
And then Christine is a greatactress and.
I mean, you know we're very,very lucky to have Christine in
this.
And then I found out Christineand Stephen had known each other
since they were kids.
So they grew up in the samepart of Liverpool together.
They'd known each other foryears, so there was already like
(37:16):
a really wonderful kind ofconnection between the two of
them.
And you know they're sort ofcoming from, you know they're
quite similar actors, you knowthey're very instinctive,
natural actors and so they justfelt right and uh, and I
actually I'm very proud ofepisode four because I think the
(37:36):
work they do as a three isreally difficult, delicate work.
And then obviously you knowOwen on the telephone, which
again is difficult stuff.
But I think you just believe it.
I think, because theirperformances are so committed,
you just believe they're afamily.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear they knew
each other too, because thatbrings even more depth to the
take on me moment when they'rein the car and you know they're
talking about their history andit's so believable even you know
the journey of their daughter'slike no stop.
This is too much.
And then sort of also being alittle bit happy that you know
her parents love each other andthat complexity, I guess isn't
something you can just fake.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So you know you should be proud.
They needed to all feel safewith one another because,
particularly Stephen andChristine, they have very
difficult emotional scenes inepisode four, and so you need
two actors that feel completelyin sync and safe with one
another in order to be able toachieve those performances.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, in looking at that safety, you know you've
spoken a lot about the fact thatkindness and sort of creating
that positive environment was areally big priority as a casting
leader, but then also foreverybody in this project.
I wonder can you expand on anyof the tangible things that were
done on set to really ensurethis?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, from the beginning of the production
there was well-being.
So there was a whole well-beingteam on this production and the
producer, joe Johnson, wasamazing.
It was something we talkedabout from day one was amazing.
It was something we talkedabout from day one.
We talked a lot about what canwe put in place?
We need to start the care fromthe minute.
We know we're going to meetthem in the room and making sure
(39:26):
that the parents knew exactlywhat they were coming in for.
That we were completelytransparent about the subject
matter and about the nature ofthe role, and I think it's
really important that you dothat from the beginning so that
you know you.
You don't get, you know, quitea long way down the line with
somebody and then you say, okay,this is what it is, and then
(39:50):
it's then a crushingdisappointment because
somebody's parents want to takethem out of the running or you
know, know.
So we were very clear and alsowe had to be really careful that
we weren't at any point talkingto young people that you know
have challenges or haveexperiences in their life that
might be triggering.
You know that this subjectmatter could you know.
(40:12):
So all of that stuff was reallycarefully sort of taken care of
by our transparency, by makingsure we had a really robust,
well-being team that were onhand the whole time.
They were on hand throughoutthe production and afterwards
and when the show came out.
And also I think you know theproducers worked really hard to
(40:35):
make sure the set was fun.
And also I think you know theproducers worked really hard to
make sure the set was fun, tomake sure there was stuff for
the kids to do and that it wasactually they wanted to come to
work in the morning.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, and you know they're a very, very inclusive
production team and I think theymade it the best job it could
possibly be for those youngpeople.
I often feel like we have somuch to learn from young raw
talent, because we all start outplaying, pretend on the
playground maybe and readingstories as kids and then you
(41:06):
learn the business end of thingsthat can kind of get in your
way sometimes.
So do you think that's part ofyour role too as a casting
director is kind of tapping intothe childlike sense of play in
everybody?
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, because I think that when you go to work, you
want to have a good time, youwant to take it seriously and do
the best work you can, but youalso want to have a good time
Even more so when you're workingon very, very difficult
material, I know.
Even more so because then, whenyou leave at night, you want to
(41:39):
, you need some lightness.
I think that is really crucial.
And, um, you know, there was ahuge, you know, laughing.
There was so much laughing inthe production office and on set
and people being quite playfuland larky with each other, and
and I just think that is a greatway to work because it's like
okay, now we've got to go intothis scene and it's going to be
(42:03):
really difficult, but we'regoing to come out of it and
we're going to have a reallynice time again.
And I'm also aware, particularlywith the young cast, you know,
some of them may never act again.
That might be their onlyexperience.
You want it to be the bestexperience it can be, because
you want them to look back atthat, possibly five, 10 years,
(42:25):
and go oh my God, I had such agreat time when I did that job
and I don't want to be an actor,but I had an amazing time and
it gave me some confidence to gointo the next bit of my life or
for an adult actor to go.
I had such a good time on thatjob.
I've never done anything likethat before.
I'd love to do that sort ofthing again, or I'd love to work
(42:49):
in that way again.
I think that's the best you canhope for on a production.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, and life is too short, you know, I think we're
to not spend your time in thelight and doing something you
enjoy, so I think that'swonderful.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And nobody wants to work with people where they have
bad experiences or you come offa job and you don't feel good
about it.
I mean, nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And that's a testament to you too.
Why I think you're on thisproject is because, like you
said, you had worked with somany of them before, and we want
to work with people that weenjoy being around.
I think that's a lot of thetime.
You know, when you get to acertain level, everybody's
creative and talented, andthat's sort of the more
important thing is who am Igoing to be spending my time
with?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I think that's actually become really important
.
I think, especially after youknow the industry.
We've had a really curious fewyears with everything that's
gone on, I think that I know,for me personally, I want to
work with good people and I wantto come out of those
experiences having had a reallypositive time and it feel like a
(43:55):
collaboration and that'scertainly how I want to work and
how I will continue to workgoing forward.
And if I feel that might not bethe case, then then that's not
a job for me.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well, in coming out of the experience of adolescence
, I know this show is going tostick with me for a very long
time.
I mean, I binged it in, I think, two days and then I haven't
stopped thinking about it sinceand it's been.
It's been a bit.
So what will you take away fromworking on adolescence?
Speaker 1 (44:33):
unique experience the whole.
You know, from the day Istarted on the job to now and
going through this whole processand then culminating in the
Emmys and so on.
You know it's been a bit of ajourney and, no, none of us
could have predicted theresponse the show would have.
Everybody just puts their headdown and does, and and we all do
the best work we can do, and,and that's what I did I put my
(44:55):
head down and tried to do thethe work in the best way I could
and I feel very proud of whatmyself and my team have achieved
with this and I feel reallyproud to be part of a production
of such good people who allwork into the same tune.
(45:15):
You know, we all wanted the samething for this show, whether it
was all the crew and all thecast, we all wanted the same
thing and I think that's rare tofeel that level of camaraderie.
You know, we really felt like wewere in it together and I,
(45:38):
coming out of it the other end,I still feel that.
I still feel supported byeverybody and there's a lot of
love between us all and I think,gosh, if every production could
be like that, the industrywould be such a happy, positive
place, and so I, you, you knowit does make you realize, gosh,
wouldn't it be great if all jobsmade you feel like this?
But um it, it has also reallycemented for me my love of not
(46:05):
of discovery, but my love ofgoing to look for talent and
creating opportunities forpeople, because I think that is
a really, really important partof our industry is, like we were
saying earlier, passing it onand creating opportunities.
And I think, opening out,casting, looking for people,
going into communities where noone really looks, or you know,
(46:30):
sort of presenting opportunitiesto people who maybe never
thought this was an option forthem.
I think that's a real privilegeto be able to do that and
that's something I willdefinitely continue doing.
I did it before and I willcertainly continue to do it
going forward.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, and I'm grateful you're doing that and I
wonder if you have I guess Idon't know if advice is the
right word, but any morethoughts on just expanding on
what you just said in regards tothis industry, right now is
very crowded with IP andnostalgia and celebrity power
and getting things made withpeople that you know have a
following already.
I, you know, I appreciate howyou do discover folks and give
(47:09):
people these opportunities thatmaybe wouldn't have had it.
Yeah, I would just love if youcould expand on that a little
more and sort of championingother creators to do the same.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
I think there's so much pressure sometimes,
especially with social media,which is kind of maddening and
brilliant at the same time, Ithink that people feel that they
have to fit in.
They have to, you know, okay,have to, you know they, okay,
this is the fashion, or this isthe fashion and this I have to
present and I don't.
I think you have to be yourselfand I think you have to stay
(47:43):
true to who you are as a, as anactor, and the sort of projects
that you want to work on, anddon't waver on that, because it
will come good at some point.
And I think sometimes,especially with young actors, I
see them desperately trying tofit into what they think the
mold is, and yet castingdirectors are constantly looking
(48:06):
for actors that don't fit themold.
You know we're looking forpeople that break the mold, that
change the mold, that reinventthe mold.
So I think the mold thatreinvent the mold.
So I think actors should maybetake a little bit of pressure
off themselves.
We don't want you to presentlike someone else.
We want you to present asyourself and to do it in the
(48:26):
most honest way possible.
And I know the industry isbrutal at times and it's really
really hard.
And I know the industry isbrutal at times and it's really
really hard, but I thinkactually staying true to who you
are at some point will comegood.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Be your own mold.
I like that.
I also will say like I've beenlooking at your beautiful door
this whole time as well, andit's it's a different door and
that's why it stands out.
And speaking of doors, shaheen,I also want to mention that you
are a trustee for Open Door,which is a nonprofit
organization that helps youngpeople access drama schools.
Can you just share a little bitabout your work there, because
(49:02):
it's so needed?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
So Open Door I've been a trustee since the
beginning, since it started.
It was created by David Mameni,who is an amazing actor and it
really is to.
It was set up exactly to makedrama school more accessible and
affordable, because it's veryexpensive to apply for drama
(49:25):
school.
It's, you know, not just theaudition fees but the travel
fees.
It's crazy and I think a lot ofthe help you can get is sort of
invisible.
It's tucked away in a dramaschool website on like the
fourth page and no one can findit.
And it was really just to makedrama school more visible, to to
(49:48):
really show the importance oftraining and for and to go into
communities and say to youngpeople like it really is a
viable option, drama school is aviable option and you're not
applying for it because youdon't know how to and you don't,
you can't afford to.
So we've worked really hard youknow me and the other trustees
(50:12):
and the people that work at OpenDoor to just essentially make
it much more visible.
We've worked really hard withsome of the you know, the main
drama schools in London to makeit much more affordable, to get
help, to give help to people inorder to apply.
We do a lot of mentoring um, webuddy, uh students with an
(50:39):
actor already in the industrythat maybe has a similar
background to them, so we buddythem together to sort of help
them through the process.
Um, it's a really it's anamazing.
It's an amazing charity.
I'm really proud to be part ofit and every year we scramble
for funding to exist, like everycharity um, but it's a really
(51:03):
worthwhile um.
It's a really worthwhileorganization to be involved in,
and we are starting to see theshape of drama school change and
we're starting to see the shapeof drama school change and
we're starting to see, you know,the demographic of people going
through drama school change andI'm really proud to say I think
(51:24):
Open Door has had a huge handin that.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So, yeah, yeah, that's phenomenal, thank you.
Thank you for doing that,everyone.
Go check out.
Open Door, and now I'm going toopen a different door.
Before you go, I would love ifwe could just play a little
surprise game, shaheen, ifyou're down this might be
testing my memory, and thatterrifies me.
Oh, it's definitely not.
I think you're going to likethis.
(51:47):
It should be pretty easy foryou.
It's called casting keywordsand essentially it's a flash
round.
I'm going to shout out termsthat you're very familiar with.
It's part of your job.
You're hydrating.
I love it.
Maybe I'll hydrate too, andbasically the goal is to get
tangible tips and advice for ouractor friends listening and try
and inspire them and help themalong and empower them.
(52:10):
So I'm going to throw out aphrase or a statement and then
you just give the first piece ofshort advice that pops into
your head.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Does that make sense?
Okay, so the first phrase isthe slate.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
The slate.
Oh my gosh.
This can mean many differentthings.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Slating for an audition.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Oh, you mean the intro?
See, I hate slates.
I don't like slates at all.
I often ask actors not to makethem.
Really.
Yeah, I don't like them.
I prefer a card that just hasyour name and your agent and
then you can start.
And that might be a veryEnglish thing.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I don't love slates.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, how come it is, slates are very big over here.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, I just don't, because I think actually taken
for me takes me out of the read.
I want to see the read, um, andI want to go straight into it.
So for me, I would say if youare doing a slate, make it
really really simple.
So for me, I would say, if youare doing a slate, make it
really really simple, reallysimple and brief, and then move
on.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love that.
Okay, this next one.
You've talked about a littlebit, but self-tapes.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Self-tapes.
Don't spend too much time onthem.
If your stuff you're not sureabout, if the character doesn't
make sense, if the scene doesn'tmake sense because you have no
idea what comes before or after,ask your agent, ask question,
and if they don't know, ask theask the casting team, because if
(53:43):
we can help in any way we'llhelp you.
But really be instinctive withit, don't overthink, don't spend
any more time on it than youneed and be quite ruthless and
if you can find a mate who'smaybe another actor, to read in
with you, because I think itwill help with the general kind
of energy of your take.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Brilliant, okay.
Number of takes to submit.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
No more than three.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
And should they be very different, I'm guessing
different perspectives,different choices um, I think
they should feel different.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, I think definitely they don't have to be
like wildly different and Iwould say, if you do five, if
you, if you record six takes andactually you think two of them
are far better than just sendtwo.
I would always have less thanmore if they are the strongest
takes.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Okay, I love that.
Breaking down a breakdown.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Breaking down a breakdown for the actor, or is?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
this for the actor.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Well, again, I think breakdowns can either be hugely
descriptive or they can be verylimiting, depending on how much
information the casting officeis able to give.
So I think just look atkeywords in that breakdown.
So if it says you know, thischaracter is a humble, honest,
(55:05):
um, straightforward person, thenI would say play it as truthful
as possible, because I thinkthat's clearly good.
They're giving you a clear noteon the character.
I think if you've got questionsor if the character description
feels too ambiguous to get ahold on, then you should ask for
more information.
And it's hard.
(55:27):
I think character breakdownsare really tricky because more
often than not they hardly giveyou any information at all.
So if it's a real person, havea little, have a research of the
person.
If it's a novel, do a littlebit of research on that
character and, um, I thinkreally, just look at keywords
(55:49):
rather than trying to retrieve,achieve everything that's in
that character description.
Just try and achieve a coupleof those keywords and don't
worry about the rest.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Love that.
Well, speaking of keywords, ournext keyword is improv.
So improv in auditions, youknow, is that something we
should only do when asked for it, or can a second take be a bit
more improvised once we do it,you know, as on paper?
Speaker 1 (56:14):
I love a bit of improvisation, but I think it
should always be discussed.
So I think that, um, often thefirst take is on script and then
I think it's a discussion aboutokay, can I go off script, how
can we play around with thesecond tape, are there lines
that may feel unnatural for youto say, and if so, why?
(56:38):
And then we talk about it andobviously if the writer's in the
room, they're part of thatconversation.
Sometimes I'm working onproductions where it has to be
absolutely to the script.
So I know that and I can gointo the auditions knowing that.
But I quite like a loose take,um, because I think it often
(56:58):
throws stuff up that you see inactors that maybe you wouldn't
have seen if we'd have juststuck to the script.
And then quite often I'll do atake which is on script, a much
looser take, and then a take onscript again, and it can feel
quite different yeah, it helpsloosen, people up because it's
(57:19):
good to ask I love that.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Speaking of asking you know what about when you ask
for an adjustment, so takingadjustments?
Speaker 1 (57:27):
um, I well, I mean, I'm very sort of low-key about
it.
You know it's very much likeokay, well, we've tried it this
way, let's try it another way.
And sometimes I might be askingan actor to try it another way,
which I feel is maybe quite faraway from what's on the page.
But sometimes I want to see howan actor will adjust and
(57:49):
sometimes, you know, a directormight push an actor to a place
that feels really way off what'son the page.
But it's good to see how theyrespond to that and how they
take direction.
And again, if, if, if anadjustment isn't clear, ask a
question, because I thinksometimes that don't ask or they
don't think they can, and youtotally can, can and you should,
(58:13):
because if somebody's given youa direction or a note that's
not 100% clear, you can askquestions.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Don't be afraid to ask questions.
That's great Networking.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Oh, I'm terrible at networking, so networking is
something that I'm absolutelyrubbish at.
It terrifies me the wordnetworking terrifies me, Me too
it's.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, it feels like a dirty word.
I get a little afraid when Iwhen I say that.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
For anyone that is shy or yeah, it's, it's
terrifying, I think.
I just think you know you haveto find your crew, don't you?
You have to find the peoplethat feel like-minded.
And it's the same with castingdirectors, you know.
It's like you can often see whois trained with who you can see
(58:59):
.
You know people can see, theylook at my work or the way I
cast and they can kind of seewho I trained with and that's
kind of your tribe, that's yourgang.
And I think with actors it's thesame.
It's like you know.
Find people that you've gotstuff in common with um and and
network in a way that feelsreally comfortable to you.
(59:22):
Like, don't do anything thatdoesn't feel comfortable.
You don't have to go to all theplaces and all the things and
be present all the time, likeyou really don't.
And I think there's a lot ofpressure on actors now to be
constantly visible.
Um, particularly with socialmedia, media, I don't believe
that at all.
I mean, I personally have nointerest how many followers
(59:46):
somebody has, because whetherI'm going to cast them out it's
got nothing to do with.
And I think there's a realpressure on actors to be visible
.
But you can be as visible or asinvisible as you want to be.
And again it goes back tostaying true to yourself and not
trying to fit in with everybodyelse, because it never works
when we try and fit in withanyone else it's not authentic.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I love that.
Yeah, and just okay to wrap thegame up here.
My last one is a little silly,since adolescence is a heavier
topic.
Favorite crafty snack.
When you're on set, what's yourfavorite go-to snack?
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
okay, well, recently I went on set on a set visit and
I was pretty devastated by thecraft because it was really
healthy oh and I was just likeno this is not why I came on set
.
I wanted to eat like carbs.
So for me, when I go on set, Ijust love comfort food, so
(01:00:42):
that's what I'm all like apudding, that's like cake and
custard or like a reallyold-fashioned pudding.
I think those things when I goon set, I really get very
excited about, and I think lotsof craft food is becoming very
healthy these days.
So, yeah, maybe I need to lookelsewhere.
I love a good pudding on set.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I love that.
I was a crafty PA on a film along time ago and it was the
most dangerous job because I,you know, someone would take an
M&M and then I would refill itbut also take one for myself,
and I spent about 14 hours justeating standing by the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I remember when I first went, did a set visit and
I discovered what a craft tablewas and it blew my mind.
Yeah.
I was like, how can you walkpast it and not take something?
I know, I know, which is whynow it's all apples and bananas
and oranges and everybody justwants a chocolate biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Yeah, it's very tricky.
I'm such a foodie.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Or a carrot.
Nobody wants a carrot.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Unless it's dipped in chocolate.
Well, maybe that would be bad,I don't know, but I'd probably
eat it.
Well, shaheen, it was so lovelyto chat with you.
I know I got to let you go andI would just appreciate if we
could end our time together byyou sharing a gotten and a given
.
And so we always end everyepisode with our guests sharing
the best piece of advice they'vegotten in this industry and
then the best they have to givenow, looking, you know, forward
(01:02:07):
on their journey.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Oh my gosh, I know they're big questions.
They are huge questions and Iwon't at all remember any of
anything, but I suppose my bestadvice to give I think people
can get really caught up in youneed to be this place at this
time in front of this person.
You need to get ahead, you needto be 20 steps ahead of the next
(01:02:30):
person, and I don't believethat.
Get ahead, you need to be 20steps ahead of the next person,
and I don't believe that.
I think my advice is always youknow, for me anyway is like
keep my head down, do my job tothe best of my ability, and
that's what gets me more work.
You know, my work is myshowcase, not me, but my work,
and so I think, just do your jobthe best that you can do it,
(01:02:54):
and that should be your focus.
And someone said that once tome and it's like yeah, that's,
that's absolutely true.
So that's where the networkingdoesn't.
I'm terrible at that, but Ijust go right, I'm going to do
my job the best I can do it, andthat's the thing that I'm
putting out into the world, andpeople will either like it or
they won't.
Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
I love that.
Do your job and always have,you know, some kind of chocolate
pudding nearby.
Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Or any pudding really .
Any pudding.
God advice to give.
I think really we've talkedabout it at several points, but
it's being honest, it's beingtrue to yourself, not trying to
fit into anybody else's mold.
It's like you know there'snothing more boring than you
know.
A load of students graduatingdrama school and they all
(01:03:43):
feeling like the same, I meanthat's really boring.
It's like we're looking forindividuals, we're looking for
people who've got their ownunique energy style.
You know happening and I justthink so.
Really, please don't, you don'tneed to fit into any mold.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
That's a wonderful reminder to end on.
Thank you for that.
I know everyone out therelistening appreciates it.
I'm going to write it down,been hanging up on my wall
somewhere.
Jean, it was so lovely to meetyou and I am just grateful, not
only for adolescence, but thatwe have kind leaders like you to
look up to, and I wish you themost amount of luck and
chocolate pudding this Emmyseason and beyond.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Thank you very much and thanks for letting me have
Felix join.
Yeah, that's his firstinterview, is it?
Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Okay, I am absolutely honored.
Thank you, Felix.
Felix was amazing.
My cats didn't get to make itin, but next time maybe they'll
have a little play date I canpop them in.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Thank you so much.
Hello, I'm Shaheen Baig.
I'm a casting director.
I'm very short, I'm about fivefoot three, and this is a really
painful experience for me doinga slate, because I really don't
like watching slates.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks, I love that.
That was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi actors, it's your friend, robert Peter Paul, and
I'm so happy you tuned in Today.
I am thrilled to welcome aphenomenal guest, someone whose
eye for talent has shaped someof the most compelling
performances of our time.
She's a champion of inclusivityand kindness, the force behind
careers we now bask in the glowof from Florence Pugh to
(01:07):
adolescence breakout, owenCooper, and now she's an Emmy
nominee.
I'm talking about castingdirector Shaheen Baig.
Shaheen Baig formed her owncompany in 2002 after working
alongside some of the world'sleading casting directors.
Since then, she's castaward-winning work across film
(01:31):
and television with both new andestablished directors.
She's also a trustee for OpenDoor, helping young people
access drama schools, andco-founded the Casting Assistant
Certificate Course at theNational Film and Television
School, both part of her missionto create a more inclusive
industry.
In 2023, shaheen received theRoyal Television Society's Bard
(01:55):
Medal for her outstandingcontribution to television and
representation for the WestMidlands.
She's a proud member of BAFTA,the Academy of Motion Picture
Arts and Sciences, the CastingDirectors Guild and the Casting
Society of America.
Today, we're diving into herlatest innovative project,
netflix's Adolescence, whichracked up an impressive 13 Emmy
(02:18):
nominations.
It's so good.
With a unique casting process,shaheen once again proved her
uncanny ability to bottlelightning and let it shine.
If you haven't seen Adolescence,I cannot recommend it enough.
Please pause right now and gowatch.
(02:39):
Shaheen was so kind as to breakdown the making of the show,
while exploring topics liketrusting the process, essential
audition advice and even castingactors from Facebook
Marketplace.
I'm a little under the weather,but I know this episode totally
healed me and filled my cup,leaving me feeling empowered,
(03:01):
and I hope it does the same foryou, friend.
Here's how we roll withEmmy-nominated casting director.
Shaheen Big.
Hi Shaheen, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I'm very good, I'm very good, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Thanks for being here and I imagine you're good
because I believe Adolescencehas 13 Emmy nominations.
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Thank you.
I think we're all absolutelythrilled and surprised.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, it's been great what I perceive as good people
win.
You know, something I admireabout you is that you talk a lot
about kindness and empathythroughout the entertainment
industry and sort of leadingwith that as someone who's
become a leader, and so thankyou for that, first of all, and
I love when people that havethat as their philosophy, kind
(03:58):
of you know get the acclaim thatthey so deserve.
I mean, this series also isjust brilliant.
I can't say enough about itthat they so deserve.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, this series also is just brilliant.
I can't say enough about it.
Oh, I mean, I think, actually,I think the way we made this
show is a really beautifulexample of fairness and kindness
and how to look after peopleproperly.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh, I love that and I can't wait to dive into all of
that, shaheen.
But in looking at your amazingcareer, one thing I noticed is
that so many actors you'vechampioned from you know
Florence Pugh early in hercareer with Lady Macbeth, to now
Owen Cooper in Adolescence.
They credit you or talk aboutyou as seeing something in them
before the rest of the industrydid, and so I just wonder off
(04:42):
the bat here is there somethingyou're consciously looking for
when you meet with a new talent,or is it just an instinct that
you've learned to trust in yourgut?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think casting is a hugely instinctive craft and
then it becomes much moretechnical as you go along.
You know, I think I've workedon a lot of projects where I've
gone out and searched.
You know I've done castingsearches so I've worked on a lot
of projects with young people,with young casts, where I've had
(05:12):
to do big casting searches andthrough that process you do
discover whether it's goingright back to Peter Pan, which
was one of the first features Idid, and George Mackay came
through that, or it's actuallythe Falling was where I first
met Florence and then LadyMacbeth, so it's sort of, you
(05:36):
know, juno Temple through Noteson a Scandal.
You know, these are allprojects where I had to go and
do big casting searches.
So I think that's why there's alittle bit of a pattern in my
work because I'm choosing to doa lot of projects that are being
cast in such a, or can be castin such an open way.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, I love that and you know it's interesting
because as a castingprofessional it's not like you
can always wave a magic wand andfind the perfect fit for a
talent.
When you meet them and fall inlove with them there's not
always a part, and I lovedlearning.
I think Florence Pugh in aninterview said that you helped
her get her first agent.
So sort of the things you dobehind the scenes that maybe go
unnoticed for the most part arecontributing to making this
(06:23):
industry a little bit brighter.
You know, can you talk to me alittle bit about that?
It seems like you're so busy.
I mean, even for adolescenceyou watched 500 tapes.
I think Just making the time todo that is so special.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
But I think you have a responsibility when you cast
in that way and when you cast ina very open way, you step
outside of the system and you gointo communities and you do
open calls or you do streetcasting.
You know the casting team have,and the production have, a
responsibility for care.
You know, for someone's careand well-being.
(06:57):
So it's important for me and myteam to make sure that that
people are doing all right andwhat do they want to do with
that production finishes?
Do they think they might wantto do it again?
Some people have no sense ifthey want to do it again until
they've actually seen themselveson the screen.
So it's really just helpingthem, and often their families,
(07:17):
through that process.
And the job shouldn't finish theminute you cast somebody in the
role.
The job shouldn't finish theminute you cast somebody in the
role, you know, and obviously itit then becomes, um, not just
your responsibility, it'sproductions as well, but the
casting team are the firstpeople that a young actor
encounters.
So I think it really makessense for that continuity to
(07:40):
continue as much as possible andand if I can, you know if I can
help any any of these youngpeople with advice, or if it's
like thinking about okay, I'dlike to do more signing with an
agent.
Which agent should I sign with?
I've been offered these twojobs.
What should I do?
Like?
(08:00):
I'm really happy to be asounding board because I want
people to make the bestdecisions for themselves and the
best decisions for their kindof career path going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I love that, you know .
I'm just curious who would yousay, is that for you as a
casting director?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, I'm very, very lucky because I trained with
amazing casting directors.
So I trained with DebbieMcWilliams, Gina Jay, Patsy
Pollock, Abby Cohen, and theyare four brilliant women who you
know, if I ever need any advice, I can talk to.
So you just have to pass it on,and it's really important to
(08:41):
pass it on.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I love that passing it on, and you know I've
mentioned it on here before.
Hi listeners, I'm sorry if Ikeep repeating myself, but I
feel like casting professionalsare community makers.
You know, you put together acommunity, especially when you
look at something likeadolescence, which we're here,
and I want to dive into thecasting process behind that.
So with that in mind, I thinkfirst I'm going to read the
(09:03):
little logline here for anybodywho hasn't seen Adolescence
Maybe pause it actually, andthen come back and listen after
you've watched, because I don'twant to spoil anything.
A family's world turns upsidedown when 13-year-old Jamie
Miller is arrested for murderinga schoolmate.
The charges against their sonforce them to confront every
parent's worst nightmare.
(09:23):
Forced them to confront everyparent's worst nightmare.
Okay, shaheen, what was yourreaction the first time you read
the script for Adolescence?
I think there was only oneepisode that you got.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's right.
So I was sort of told thepremise and then I was sent
episode one and I obviouslyunderstood how they were going
to make the drama in one shot.
And I read it and my initialthought was that's a very
difficult subject, it's a verydifficult subject matter and
(09:56):
it's a huge undertaking for ayoung person.
And I think those were my firstthoughts.
I was excited by it because Ithought Jack's script was
fantastic and the team you knowthe team involved lots of people
I'd worked with before and Iwas like, ok, there's an amazing
team on this, but how are wegoing to achieve this and how
(10:27):
are we going to find this kindof brilliant ensemble that can
do this in the way that it needsto be done?
So I think that was my, myfirst feeling, which wasn't fear
, but it was like, um, okay, howare we gonna do it?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
and was there a specific philosophy, I guess,
that guided you throughout thiscasting process?
Did you have something youreturned to whenever you had to
make a tough decision?
In regards to the conversationsyou had with the other
creatives, was there somethingyou kind of latched on to
overall?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Sorry, my cat is trying to jump on the computer.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, bring him out.
What's your cat's name?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I'm trying to head him off, but I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
No, I love it.
Oh hi, so adorable.
What's your cat's name?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No, I love it.
Oh hi, so adorable.
What's your cat's name?
I'm so sorry, he's called Felix.
I'm really sorry, but he wantsto be here.
Don't be sorry, this is amazing.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And clingy.
My cats are trying to break in.
They're like this under thedoor right now and they've been
screaming the whole time, soI've been surprised you haven't
noticed that either.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's used the cat flap because he's clever oh so
okay.
So please ask me the questionagain, because I was trying to
make up my cat, as you wereasking me oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
My question was just do you have any pets?
And it was answered so no.
I was wondering was there aspecific philosophy that you and
the creatives talked about thatyou could kind of latch on to
in the difficult moments of thisproduction, like something you
could always return to when youhad to make difficult decisions?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
good, kind people.
So I think you know that was adecision from day one.
You know we were making a drama, a difficult drama, a tough
subject in quite a unique,challenging way, and so,
therefore, it was reallyimportant that we could do that
with also with really kind, goodpeople.
And I think that was a bigconsideration for the casting
and also just to make sure thatthe casting felt coherent and it
(12:31):
really, I suppose, chimed withthe tone of the script, and that
was to find actors andperformances that felt as
truthful as possible andperformances that felt as
truthful as possible.
And that's something wediscussed from the get-go and so
really those were the twothings Everyone be good people.
(12:52):
We're trying to.
You know I know the productionworked really hard to make sure
that the team were full of youknow great people Because, you
know, when you're working on adrama that is challenging, you
want everyone to have a goodtime and actually it was a very
happy set.
It was a very happy prep.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was a really happy set, which, you know, is
surprising when you look at thesubject matter, but I think it's
crucial yeah, it makes all thedifference, especially for
something like this where everyepisode is one continuous shot
and I loved geeking out andreading about all the
intricacies.
Even as far as you know,stephen would go to start the
car sometimes and the carwouldn't start and then you'd
(13:29):
have to do a whole new take.
So if you don't have kindpeople, and when these little
frustrations occur, it just itcould make it not as pleasant of
an atmosphere, I wonder.
Is there something you feellike you had to unlearn that
you've really learned over theyears as a casting director for
this process?
Was there something you had tolet go of that you found a
(13:51):
little tricky?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
of pressure on us of like, okay, when are we going to
find this, when are we going tofind Jamie?
And whenever you're casting inthis way, it's a process and you
kind of have to trust theprocess.
It will move fast, it will moveslow, it will be difficult.
You may not, you know, you mayget a bunch of tapes in and you
won't see anybody and you won'tsee anybody, and then you'll see
10 people that are brilliant.
And I think my sort of mantrato not mantra, but to everybody
(14:28):
was like please trust theprocess, because it will.
It will come good, but we andit might feel a bit frustrating
and it may not be moving asquickly as you want it to,
because we all desperately wanta solution, but you have to just
let this take the shape itneeds to take and let us do the
(14:49):
legwork, do the research, do theyou know all of that groundwork
to find the right people.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
That's something I always find to be.
The magic sauce of our industryis that especially when I'm,
you know, working on a theaterproject, everything does tend to
come together last minute.
You know there's a long techweek or whatever it is, and
somehow it really just does cometogether.
So trusting the process is areally great reminder.
That said, the show reallydemanded a lot of its actors and
at times it's like a playwithout breaks.
(15:18):
You know, people have said howdo you go about sensing, as
you're starting this castingprocess, if someone is not only
a truthful storyteller but hasthe stamina to really live in
every scene and join an ensemblelike, how do you cast for
stamina?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
well, I think that, um, what we were looking for
with the whole cast adult andyoung cast was that anything
could go wrong at any time.
You know, a scene could bewritten in a very specific way
that you've rehearsed, rehearsed, but something could happen.
The light switch might not work, or you know and so I think we
(15:56):
needed actors that were notnecessarily theater trained I
think that's helpful but weneeded actors that weren't
afraid of some improvisation,because I think there had to be
an element of that in thefilming, and not all actors like
to improvise, and so we had toreally think about that.
(16:18):
And then, certainly, when wewere casting all the young roles
, we did a lot of work with them.
You know, we worked from thescript, we improvised around the
script, we tried lots ofdifferent things just to see
what their focus was.
You know, how was repetition,how was their concentration, and
that became crucial.
But, I think, bar two of theyoung actors in amongst the
(16:45):
young cast, for everybody elseit was their first screen.
What screen work?
So we, we took a chance, butbut they all went through a
process of workshopping andauditioning and, um, trying lots
of different things to thepoint where we felt confident
they would be able to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And it paid off and I can't wait to get into Jamie.
But before we get there, Icannot believe just the corners
of the world that you search tofind actors.
I mean, you were in FacebookMarketplace, which sounds so
random, but it makes sense whenI think about it.
Is there a really unusual placethat you found an actor for
this project?
I mean, I guess FacebookMarketplace is pretty unusual
(17:28):
but anything sort of unorthodoxyou can share.
I think that Felix, I guessknows as well, Felix is
desperate for attention.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
He wants to get into casting.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I love that.
I think catting lose the Smaybe.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Exactly to get into casting.
I love that.
I think catting lose the Smaybe.
I think Facebook marketplace isbrilliant because that's where
a lot of parents are constantlyon there looking for things, or
grandparents, aunts and uncles.
So often you're not justtargeting, say, where young
people go, you're targetingwhere their siblings, where
their parents, where theirrelatives might go, and so you
(18:10):
know community hubs, all sortsof random places.
I mean I've cast, you know,I've gone into a garage and cast
a mechanic, I've gone in.
There's all sorts of mad things.
Um, you know, you can findpeople wherever and however, and
and it can happen in the mostrandom of ways and with
(18:33):
adolescence we chose about fivecities in the North of England.
We researched those cities, wemade these kind of huge,
sprawling databases of you knoweverything that we thought might
be relevant, from schools,drama groups, youth groups,
sports clubs, community centres,youth centres, anything that in
(18:56):
some way felt relevant to theage group.
We were looking for.
And then we contacted everybody,we spoke to everybody, we
street cast in those areas, weflyered.
We also looked at young peoplewho were professionally
represented.
I mean, you just do everythingthat you could possibly do to
(19:18):
find the right person.
You have to start from a placeof volume, because you have to
go out wide in order to find theperson.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and you had a fairly wide net at first.
In regards to age, I know thatthere were a lot of
conversations surrounding ageand at one point you thought
maybe 18 to play younger, andthen it kind of turned into 13
to a few 17 year olds, and soyou know, how does that come
into play technically?
Because I just think of likeunion rules and all these things
that you have to kind of havein your brain when you're
(19:47):
working with kids.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, we talked about that a lot at the beginning.
We talked about sort ofcompliance and you know, how
young could we cast?
Because, obviously, the subjectmatter and the age of the
character we needed to be hugelymindful of that matter in the
age of the character.
We needed to be hugely mindfulof that, and so we initially
(20:09):
were casting from 13 to sort of17, 18, to play younger, but
we'd all decided that 13 was theyoungest that we could cast.
And then we sort of started onthe search and it just became
clear very quickly that theolder people just it didn't work
, it didn't make sense.
The youth of Jamie is such acrucial character for this drama
(20:34):
and we had to get that right.
And so it became clear that,okay, we need to focus on
younger people and that's adecision we made like really,
really early um, and itdefinitely felt like 13, 14 was
the, was the sweet spot and thatyou know, even just thinking
(20:57):
about watching it the first timewe see jamie when they burst
into his room, there's something.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Visually, there's very different feelings that are
evoked as an audience member.
If, if you burst into the roomof a 13, 14 year old versus an
18 year old, you know it's.
It's immediately you're kind ofsucked in.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And it's shocking because he absolutely is a child
.
And so you're going into thebedroom of a child and you know,
and Owen looks so young.
You know, because he what he is, he is young and he was young.
But, um, that was really reallycrucial.
We had to get that in like theopening five, ten minutes,
(21:36):
because it was essential.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We got that right yeah, well, you did, and it all
centers around the brilliantactor who plays jamie.
Everybody's talking about Jamie, to quote another film, owen
Cooper, who essentially was anundiscovered talent, I believe,
who sent in a tape.
And you have such a knack forunearthing, you know new
creatives, as we discussed atthe top here.
What was it about Owen'sinitial tape that kind of caught
(21:59):
your eye.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean we were getting so many tapes.
We had hundreds and hundreds oftapes.
We must have had, I think,between five six hundred from
the open call and we had about60, 70 from the professionals
and I think owen he it was veryconfident, it was a very
confident tape.
(22:22):
He had this you know, he wasvery young, angelic face, just a
very clear, confident read andit was like, okay, this young
person is really interesting,let's see some, let's see him
again and let's see some more.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Hmm, you know you mentioned those five, 600
hundred tapes.
I wonder, as a casting pro, howdo you stay focused yourself
while watching so many?
You know I imagine it becomes ablur at some point and I know
that you really do watch everytape.
I know some people are like doyou watch every tape?
And I know you do.
How do you stay focused whenyou're watching so much?
Because if you're not in theright sort of like mindset, I
(23:03):
imagine people slip through thecracks sometimes.
Could you just speak a littlebit to that?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I think that, again, you know when you're casting in
this quite specific way, youknow people are really going out
on a limb to send you a tape,especially teenagers.
You know young people goingokay, I'll take a chance on this
.
So you know young people going,okay, I'll take a chance on
this.
So you know we have to watchall the tapes because it's you
(23:29):
know, it's a respectful thing todo is watch everything that
comes through.
And you just have to be very,very organized with your time.
And you know myself, my team,phil the director, joe the
producer, we were watchingeverything.
My team, phil the director, joethe producer, we were watching
everything and we were filteringand we were sending through,
and I just had to be very tightwith my time and go okay, I'm
(23:52):
going to, I'm going to put anhour aside and watch another 30
tapes or another 40 tapes, orhowever.
You just do it every day andyou get yourself into a rhythm
whereby, okay, I'm going towatch another whole load of
tapes this evening, and that'sjust what we did.
We did it every single day.
My office would upload duringthe day.
(24:13):
As quick as we were uploading,more tapes were coming in and
then we were watching anddiscussing.
So you have to get yourselfinto a routine and actually
there's a huge amount of admin.
It's boring, but there's amassive amount admin that goes
with casting in this way,because I can't tell you how
(24:36):
many people send tapes without afull name or a date of birth,
or you know all the things youneed in order to be able to
process that tape yeah
Speaker 2 (24:46):
there's a huge amount of back and forth and admin
before I can share a tape withthe director and how long, I
guess, after you like someone'stape and pass it along to the
director does it take for you toeither call them back in or
reach out to them we did it inways.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, we did it in ways, but I think that we I
think we did sort of four orfive waves of auditions, so we'd
have x amount of tapes in, we'dgo through them, then we'd ask
them to do another tape withsome direction and with some
notes and then, based on thattape, we would would call them
(25:25):
in.
So I think we did about five orsix waves of auditions and then
we moved into workshops wherewe sort of got people working
with, um, a couple of actors andtrying out different scenes and
and improvising around scenes,and so yeah, and then the
workshop was a much smallergroup, because by that point
(25:47):
we'd kind of got it down, Ithink, initially to about 10,
and then we got it down to five.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I'm very curious about the workshops of it all.
But before we get there Iwonder, you know, with the
self-tapes, I hear a lot ofcasting professionals say that
the first 10-ish seconds of atake are really important
because that's how you grabsomeone's attention.
Overall, is there anythingactors can tangibly do in a
self-tape to stand out?
I mean, are you someone whoreally thinks that the beginning
(26:17):
or the moment before you startthe scene, like coming in with
that energy, is super important?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
like coming in with that.
Energy is super important.
I think that sometimes I mean,we're in a climate of self-tapes
and there's a lot of self-tapesand it has its pros and cons.
It's never quite the same asbeing in the room.
But on this project, because wehad young people based all over
the north of England, we sortof had to do it this way or
start off this way.
But I think with a self-tape,spend no more time on it than
(26:46):
you would if you were meeting inthe room.
I think, sometimes actors spendso much time on a self-tape
because they can edit and theycan delete and they can do it
again.
And I think sometimes you're anactor spending too much time on
a self-tape.
So try and be as tight with itas you would be if you were
(27:07):
coming into an audition in theroom.
And I think, also, with aself-tape, I'm not looking for
anything, I'm not looking forfireworks, I'm not looking for
it to be.
It doesn't have to be likeprofessionally shot, because
some people don't have thatfacility to do that.
As long as I can see and hearyou, that's the most important
(27:27):
thing.
Um, and I just you know, I meanlook, it sounds like a cliche,
but I just like really honest,read reads and I think don't
dress it up too much, don'tlayer it with too many, don't
overthink it.
You know, just be quiteinstinctive about it, because
(27:47):
often with a self-tape, yourinstinctive reaction to it is
often the best one.
Then you come in the room andyou work on it in the room and
you can try loads of differentthings.
But I think for a self tapeit's the casting director's
responsibility to give the actoras much background information
(28:09):
as they're able to.
So to give you notes on thecharacter, to try and give you a
sense of what's coming beforeand after the scene you're about
to do, and then I would say beinstinctive about it, because,
um, I think any more, anythingmore than that can be sometimes
become a little bit overlycomplicated yeah, overly raw.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I've said this before , but it's almost like
overcooked pasta sometimes ifyou let it boil too much.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, and know when to stop and know when to be like
.
Actually I don't need to dothat anymore.
I've done it enough.
I have to let it go now.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I think that's fantastic advice.
I wonder, you know, since a lotof us are taping I mean, I'm
looking at my ring light in thecorner of the room and I'm
getting triggered are taping onour own in the corner of the
room and I'm getting triggered?
Are taping on our own Is therea favorite adjustment you have
to give to actors to kind of getthem out of their own head in
this world of self-tapes?
You know?
Is there like a tangibleadjustment that you give folks
that you find really works?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I mean, I think it's really, really hard for an actor
to be self-taping with an appthat is reading the lines for
you or your mom or your auntieor your little sister, or I
think it's really tough and Iand I would really encourage,
where possible, actors to talkto one another and help each
(29:29):
other as much as they can sothat you build your own
community in when it comes todoing tape, so you can help each
other, because you know, youknow, by being in the room, if
you're reading with somebodythat is giving you absolutely
zero.
It's quite hard it's quite hardto to navigate yourself around
(29:50):
that scene or be spontaneousbecause you're reading with
someone that isn't going to giveyou anything and.
I think that is key.
It's also key to like theconfidence in doing the tape,
and not everyone is going tohave this ability, but I think
if you do have friends that areactors, lean on each other to
help each other to make yourselftapes, because it's going to be
(30:13):
more enjoyable and also you'reprobably going to get something
that feels much more natural.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That's beautiful and the natural and the confidence
is what you found in Owen Cooperfor Jamie.
You know I've heard you allalso talk about the fact that he
was so focused and then he alsohad the essential skill of
listening, so it was kind of adream combo for a young actor.
You know what, I guess.
What do you think allowssomeone to stay that present?
(30:41):
We talk a lot about beingpresent in the scene and I think
it can kind of become thislofty term in the sky that we
aren't sure how to reachsometimes.
But yeah, do you have anyadvice for sort of how you've
seen even him or other actorsget present and sort of be in
that focus mindset?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well, I think with Owen, you know he was going to
excuse me, he was going to adrama club so he was already you
know.
I guess you know they wereworking on things like focus and
looking at script.
So he already sort of he cameto the audition with some
knowledge of, he knew what ascene of dialogue looked like
(31:18):
and he knew how to be focused inthat moment.
But that's still nothingcompared to what he had to do
actually on the day.
I mean, I would say it's reallyimportant for actors to really
kind of look at who they'remeeting.
So who is the director you'remeeting?
(31:39):
What have they done before?
What's the tone and style oftheir work?
What kind of actors have theyworked with?
What's their style?
Who's the writer?
What's the writer done before?
Who's the casting director?
What's their taste, what kind ofprojects do they work on?
I think all of taste, what kindof projects do they work on?
I think all of that knowledgekind of hopefully empowers the
(32:03):
actor to come into the roomfeeling like, okay, I've done a
bit of research on the peopleI'm meeting and I have some
sense of their taste and I havesome sense of the tone of the
projects that they work on andthat, I think, will naturally
feed into the way you approachthe read.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I think that's really smart.
I also thought it was sowonderful that I think when you
narrowed it down to five Jamie'sand then eventually went with
Owen is it true you ended upgiving all the other Jamie's a
part in the show, Like thatdoesn't usually happen.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
No, it doesn't.
And I think, you know, everysingle young person that we
shortlisted for the role wasbrilliant in completely
different ways, and that's fivedifferent versions of
adolescence.
But you know, we were all like,like these are great kids,
let's give them a part.
And we were lucky because wehad episode two, which was full
of young people, and so actuallythe joy of episode two is that
(33:07):
so many young people that we metalong the way made it into that
episode.
So, um, that's a really greatthing because you kind of go,
okay, well, here we have anopportunity to to cast people
and they all have their moment,they all have like a defined
moment in the series, and soit's a real joy, it's a
privilege, to be able to do thatyeah, I think that's so special
(33:30):
his name's escaping me jamie'sfriend that eventually is also
arrested kane who it was?
kane who plays the role?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Kane.
Yeah, I don't know if he wasoriginally a Jamie or what, but
was it purposeful to castsomeone who sort of looked like
Owen in that role?
Because to me, as I'm watchingit, I'm thinking, oh, that could
be him on the team, maybe it'snot.
Maybe it's not Jamie.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No, actually we didn't think about that at all.
He just had the mostextraordinary face and was
perfect for that, that scene,you know, with Ashley Walters
and and just felt like such akid who was completely lost in
the moment.
You know, absolutely lost andclueless and didn't know quite
(34:15):
know what to do, and I thoughtKane played that really
beautifully.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, definitely, and as far as I mean, I know it's a
whole separate, other division.
But background and extras,casting for that episode with
all the kids in the school, youknow, did you kind of have your
hand in that?
I know some of them wereactually students of the school,
but I just I imagine that's adifferent type of background
work than normal, because youreally have to be on your toes
(34:40):
and focused as well.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and I think that's also all power to the
production team because theywere able to get that many young
people to focus and moment andalso to the adult cast because
you know I love the naturalismof the teachers and I love that
they feel like reallyrecognisable teachers that would
work in a comprehensive schoolin England and maybe that helped
(35:07):
the young people respond tothem in such a natural way and
actually most young people thatI've spoken to, including my
daughter, episode two is theirfavourite episode because I
think it feels very recognisableas an actual school that you
would go to.
Because I think sometimes wewatch school on television and
(35:30):
it's like a heightened versionof school or it doesn't really
feel truthful and I think thatlots of people have it felt very
familiar to them.
So I think, that's anachievement to the actors and
the production team for makingthat happen.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, and sort of another reason to praise
teachers out there, because youalso get a glimpse of how much
they're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, in looking at, I guess, the other adults in the
series, of course, stephenGraham, who.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, in looking at, I guess, the other adults in the
series.
Of course Stephen Graham, whois one of the creators, is also
in the show physically, because,I think you can worry about
that too much.
You can be like oh, they're theeye color and the hair color
and it doesn't feel right.
You just have to findindividuals that feel like they
all fit together and that's anenergy more often than not, and
(36:31):
so I didn't worry about that toomuch because we just got to
find the right individuals.
And Amelie had such a reallybeautiful kind of quietness and
she had a very different energyto Owen and I just thought, okay
, that's a really interestingperson to put in the mix.
(36:54):
And then Christine is a greatactress and.
I mean, you know we're very,very lucky to have Christine in
this.
And then I found out Christineand Stephen had known each other
since they were kids.
So they grew up in the samepart of Liverpool together.
They'd known each other foryears, so there was already like
(37:16):
a really wonderful kind ofconnection between the two of
them.
And you know they're sort ofcoming from, you know they're
quite similar actors, you knowthey're very instinctive,
natural actors and so they justfelt right and uh, and I
actually I'm very proud ofepisode four because I think the
(37:36):
work they do as a three isreally difficult, delicate work.
And then obviously you knowOwen on the telephone, which
again is difficult stuff.
But I think you just believe it.
I think, because theirperformances are so committed,
you just believe they're afamily.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear they knew
each other too, because thatbrings even more depth to the
take on me moment when they'rein the car and you know they're
talking about their history andit's so believable even you know
the journey of their daughter'slike no stop.
This is too much.
And then sort of also being alittle bit happy that you know
her parents love each other andthat complexity, I guess isn't
something you can just fake.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So you know you should be proud.
They needed to all feel safewith one another because,
particularly Stephen andChristine, they have very
difficult emotional scenes inepisode four, and so you need
two actors that feel completelyin sync and safe with one
another in order to be able toachieve those performances.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, in looking at that safety, you know you've
spoken a lot about the fact thatkindness and sort of creating
that positive environment was areally big priority as a casting
leader, but then also foreverybody in this project.
I wonder can you expand on anyof the tangible things that were
done on set to really ensurethis?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, from the beginning of the production
there was well-being.
So there was a whole well-beingteam on this production and the
producer, joe Johnson, wasamazing.
It was something we talkedabout from day one was amazing.
It was something we talkedabout from day one.
We talked a lot about what canwe put in place?
We need to start the care fromthe minute.
We know we're going to meetthem in the room and making sure
(39:26):
that the parents knew exactlywhat they were coming in for.
That we were completelytransparent about the subject
matter and about the nature ofthe role, and I think it's
really important that you dothat from the beginning so that
you know you.
You don't get, you know, quitea long way down the line with
somebody and then you say, okay,this is what it is, and then
(39:50):
it's then a crushingdisappointment because
somebody's parents want to takethem out of the running or you
know, know.
So we were very clear and alsowe had to be really careful that
we weren't at any point talkingto young people that you know
have challenges or haveexperiences in their life that
might be triggering.
You know that this subjectmatter could you know.
(40:12):
So all of that stuff was reallycarefully sort of taken care of
by our transparency, by makingsure we had a really robust,
well-being team that were onhand the whole time.
They were on hand throughoutthe production and afterwards
and when the show came out.
And also I think you know theproducers worked really hard to
(40:35):
make sure the set was fun.
And also I think you know theproducers worked really hard to
make sure the set was fun, tomake sure there was stuff for
the kids to do and that it wasactually they wanted to come to
work in the morning.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, and you know they're a very, very inclusive
production team and I think theymade it the best job it could
possibly be for those youngpeople.
I often feel like we have somuch to learn from young raw
talent, because we all start outplaying, pretend on the
playground maybe and readingstories as kids and then you
(41:06):
learn the business end of thingsthat can kind of get in your
way sometimes.
So do you think that's part ofyour role too as a casting
director is kind of tapping intothe childlike sense of play in
everybody?
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, because I think that when you go to work, you
want to have a good time, youwant to take it seriously and do
the best work you can, but youalso want to have a good time
Even more so when you're workingon very, very difficult
material, I know.
Even more so because then, whenyou leave at night, you want to
(41:39):
, you need some lightness.
I think that is really crucial.
And, um, you know, there was ahuge, you know, laughing.
There was so much laughing inthe production office and on set
and people being quite playfuland larky with each other, and
and I just think that is a greatway to work because it's like
okay, now we've got to go intothis scene and it's going to be
(42:03):
really difficult, but we'regoing to come out of it and
we're going to have a reallynice time again.
And I'm also aware, particularlywith the young cast, you know,
some of them may never act again.
That might be their onlyexperience.
You want it to be the bestexperience it can be, because
you want them to look back atthat, possibly five, 10 years,
(42:25):
and go oh my God, I had such agreat time when I did that job
and I don't want to be an actor,but I had an amazing time and
it gave me some confidence to gointo the next bit of my life or
for an adult actor to go.
I had such a good time on thatjob.
I've never done anything likethat before.
I'd love to do that sort ofthing again, or I'd love to work
(42:49):
in that way again.
I think that's the best you canhope for on a production.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, and life is too short, you know, I think we're
to not spend your time in thelight and doing something you
enjoy, so I think that'swonderful.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And nobody wants to work with people where they have
bad experiences or you come offa job and you don't feel good
about it.
I mean, nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And that's a testament to you too.
Why I think you're on thisproject is because, like you
said, you had worked with somany of them before, and we want
to work with people that weenjoy being around.
I think that's a lot of thetime.
You know, when you get to acertain level, everybody's
creative and talented, andthat's sort of the more
important thing is who am Igoing to be spending my time
with?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I think that's actually become really important
.
I think, especially after youknow the industry.
We've had a really curious fewyears with everything that's
gone on, I think that I know,for me personally, I want to
work with good people and I wantto come out of those
experiences having had a reallypositive time and it feel like a
(43:55):
collaboration and that'scertainly how I want to work and
how I will continue to workgoing forward.
And if I feel that might not bethe case, then then that's not
a job for me.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well, in coming out of the experience of adolescence
, I know this show is going tostick with me for a very long
time.
I mean, I binged it in, I think, two days and then I haven't
stopped thinking about it sinceand it's been.
It's been a bit.
So what will you take away fromworking on adolescence?
Speaker 1 (44:33):
unique experience the whole.
You know, from the day Istarted on the job to now and
going through this whole processand then culminating in the
Emmys and so on.
You know it's been a bit of ajourney and, no, none of us
could have predicted theresponse the show would have.
Everybody just puts their headdown and does, and and we all do
the best work we can do, and,and that's what I did I put my
(44:55):
head down and tried to do thethe work in the best way I could
and I feel very proud of whatmyself and my team have achieved
with this and I feel reallyproud to be part of a production
of such good people who allwork into the same tune.
(45:15):
You know, we all wanted the samething for this show, whether it
was all the crew and all thecast, we all wanted the same
thing and I think that's rare tofeel that level of camaraderie.
You know, we really felt like wewere in it together and I,
(45:38):
coming out of it the other end,I still feel that.
I still feel supported byeverybody and there's a lot of
love between us all and I think,gosh, if every production could
be like that, the industrywould be such a happy, positive
place, and so I, you, you knowit does make you realize, gosh,
wouldn't it be great if all jobsmade you feel like this?
But um it, it has also reallycemented for me my love of not
(46:05):
of discovery, but my love ofgoing to look for talent and
creating opportunities forpeople, because I think that is
a really, really important partof our industry is, like we were
saying earlier, passing it onand creating opportunities.
And I think, opening out,casting, looking for people,
going into communities where noone really looks, or you know,
(46:30):
sort of presenting opportunitiesto people who maybe never
thought this was an option forthem.
I think that's a real privilegeto be able to do that and
that's something I willdefinitely continue doing.
I did it before and I willcertainly continue to do it
going forward.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, and I'm grateful you're doing that and I
wonder if you have I guess Idon't know if advice is the
right word, but any morethoughts on just expanding on
what you just said in regards tothis industry, right now is
very crowded with IP andnostalgia and celebrity power
and getting things made withpeople that you know have a
following already.
I, you know, I appreciate howyou do discover folks and give
(47:09):
people these opportunities thatmaybe wouldn't have had it.
Yeah, I would just love if youcould expand on that a little
more and sort of championingother creators to do the same.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
I think there's so much pressure sometimes,
especially with social media,which is kind of maddening and
brilliant at the same time, Ithink that people feel that they
have to fit in.
They have to, you know, okay,have to, you know they, okay,
this is the fashion, or this isthe fashion and this I have to
present and I don't.
I think you have to be yourselfand I think you have to stay
(47:43):
true to who you are as a, as anactor, and the sort of projects
that you want to work on, anddon't waver on that, because it
will come good at some point.
And I think sometimes,especially with young actors, I
see them desperately trying tofit into what they think the
mold is, and yet castingdirectors are constantly looking
(48:06):
for actors that don't fit themold.
You know we're looking forpeople that break the mold, that
change the mold, that reinventthe mold.
So I think the mold thatreinvent the mold.
So I think actors should maybetake a little bit of pressure
off themselves.
We don't want you to presentlike someone else.
We want you to present asyourself and to do it in the
(48:26):
most honest way possible.
And I know the industry isbrutal at times and it's really
really hard.
And I know the industry isbrutal at times and it's really
really hard, but I thinkactually staying true to who you
are at some point will comegood.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Be your own mold.
I like that.
I also will say like I've beenlooking at your beautiful door
this whole time as well, andit's it's a different door and
that's why it stands out.
And speaking of doors, shaheen,I also want to mention that you
are a trustee for Open Door,which is a nonprofit
organization that helps youngpeople access drama schools.
Can you just share a little bitabout your work there, because
(49:02):
it's so needed?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
So Open Door I've been a trustee since the
beginning, since it started.
It was created by David Mameni,who is an amazing actor and it
really is to.
It was set up exactly to makedrama school more accessible and
affordable, because it's veryexpensive to apply for drama
(49:25):
school.
It's, you know, not just theaudition fees but the travel
fees.
It's crazy and I think a lot ofthe help you can get is sort of
invisible.
It's tucked away in a dramaschool website on like the
fourth page and no one can findit.
And it was really just to makedrama school more visible, to to
(49:48):
really show the importance oftraining and for and to go into
communities and say to youngpeople like it really is a
viable option, drama school is aviable option and you're not
applying for it because youdon't know how to and you don't,
you can't afford to.
So we've worked really hard youknow me and the other trustees
(50:12):
and the people that work at OpenDoor to just essentially make
it much more visible.
We've worked really hard withsome of the you know, the main
drama schools in London to makeit much more affordable, to get
help, to give help to people inorder to apply.
We do a lot of mentoring um, webuddy, uh students with an
(50:39):
actor already in the industrythat maybe has a similar
background to them, so we buddythem together to sort of help
them through the process.
Um, it's a really it's anamazing.
It's an amazing charity.
I'm really proud to be part ofit and every year we scramble
for funding to exist, like everycharity um, but it's a really
(51:03):
worthwhile um.
It's a really worthwhileorganization to be involved in,
and we are starting to see theshape of drama school change and
we're starting to see the shapeof drama school change and
we're starting to see, you know,the demographic of people going
through drama school change andI'm really proud to say I think
(51:24):
Open Door has had a huge handin that.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So, yeah, yeah, that's phenomenal, thank you.
Thank you for doing that,everyone.
Go check out.
Open Door, and now I'm going toopen a different door.
Before you go, I would love ifwe could just play a little
surprise game, shaheen, ifyou're down this might be
testing my memory, and thatterrifies me.
Oh, it's definitely not.
I think you're going to likethis.
(51:47):
It should be pretty easy foryou.
It's called casting keywordsand essentially it's a flash
round.
I'm going to shout out termsthat you're very familiar with.
It's part of your job.
You're hydrating.
I love it.
Maybe I'll hydrate too, andbasically the goal is to get
tangible tips and advice for ouractor friends listening and try
and inspire them and help themalong and empower them.
(52:10):
So I'm going to throw out aphrase or a statement and then
you just give the first piece ofshort advice that pops into
your head.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Does that make sense?
Okay, so the first phrase isthe slate.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
The slate.
Oh my gosh.
This can mean many differentthings.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Slating for an audition.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Oh, you mean the intro?
See, I hate slates.
I don't like slates at all.
I often ask actors not to makethem.
Really.
Yeah, I don't like them.
I prefer a card that just hasyour name and your agent and
then you can start.
And that might be a veryEnglish thing.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I don't love slates.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, how come it is, slates are very big over here.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, I just don't, because I think actually taken
for me takes me out of the read.
I want to see the read, um, andI want to go straight into it.
So for me, I would say if youare doing a slate, make it
really really simple.
So for me, I would say, if youare doing a slate, make it
really really simple, reallysimple and brief, and then move
on.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love that.
Okay, this next one.
You've talked about a littlebit, but self-tapes.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Self-tapes.
Don't spend too much time onthem.
If your stuff you're not sureabout, if the character doesn't
make sense, if the scene doesn'tmake sense because you have no
idea what comes before or after,ask your agent, ask question,
and if they don't know, ask theask the casting team, because if
(53:43):
we can help in any way we'llhelp you.
But really be instinctive withit, don't overthink, don't spend
any more time on it than youneed and be quite ruthless and
if you can find a mate who'smaybe another actor, to read in
with you, because I think itwill help with the general kind
of energy of your take.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Brilliant, okay.
Number of takes to submit.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
No more than three.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
And should they be very different, I'm guessing
different perspectives,different choices um, I think
they should feel different.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, I think definitely they don't have to be
like wildly different and Iwould say, if you do five, if
you, if you record six takes andactually you think two of them
are far better than just sendtwo.
I would always have less thanmore if they are the strongest
takes.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Okay, I love that.
Breaking down a breakdown.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Breaking down a breakdown for the actor, or is?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
this for the actor.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Well, again, I think breakdowns can either be hugely
descriptive or they can be verylimiting, depending on how much
information the casting officeis able to give.
So I think just look atkeywords in that breakdown.
So if it says you know, thischaracter is a humble, honest,
(55:05):
um, straightforward person, thenI would say play it as truthful
as possible, because I thinkthat's clearly good.
They're giving you a clear noteon the character.
I think if you've got questionsor if the character description
feels too ambiguous to get ahold on, then you should ask for
more information.
And it's hard.
(55:27):
I think character breakdownsare really tricky because more
often than not they hardly giveyou any information at all.
So if it's a real person, havea little, have a research of the
person.
If it's a novel, do a littlebit of research on that
character and, um, I thinkreally, just look at keywords
(55:49):
rather than trying to retrieve,achieve everything that's in
that character description.
Just try and achieve a coupleof those keywords and don't
worry about the rest.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Love that.
Well, speaking of keywords, ournext keyword is improv.
So improv in auditions, youknow, is that something we
should only do when asked for it, or can a second take be a bit
more improvised once we do it,you know, as on paper?
Speaker 1 (56:14):
I love a bit of improvisation, but I think it
should always be discussed.
So I think that, um, often thefirst take is on script and then
I think it's a discussion aboutokay, can I go off script, how
can we play around with thesecond tape, are there lines
that may feel unnatural for youto say, and if so, why?
(56:38):
And then we talk about it andobviously if the writer's in the
room, they're part of thatconversation.
Sometimes I'm working onproductions where it has to be
absolutely to the script.
So I know that and I can gointo the auditions knowing that.
But I quite like a loose take,um, because I think it often
(56:58):
throws stuff up that you see inactors that maybe you wouldn't
have seen if we'd have juststuck to the script.
And then quite often I'll do atake which is on script, a much
looser take, and then a take onscript again, and it can feel
quite different yeah, it helpsloosen, people up because it's
(57:19):
good to ask I love that.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Speaking of asking you know what about when you ask
for an adjustment, so takingadjustments?
Speaker 1 (57:27):
um, I well, I mean, I'm very sort of low-key about
it.
You know it's very much likeokay, well, we've tried it this
way, let's try it another way.
And sometimes I might be askingan actor to try it another way,
which I feel is maybe quite faraway from what's on the page.
But sometimes I want to see howan actor will adjust and
(57:49):
sometimes, you know, a directormight push an actor to a place
that feels really way off what'son the page.
But it's good to see how theyrespond to that and how they
take direction.
And again, if, if, if anadjustment isn't clear, ask a
question, because I thinksometimes that don't ask or they
don't think they can, and youtotally can, can and you should,
(58:13):
because if somebody's given youa direction or a note that's
not 100% clear, you can askquestions.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Don't be afraid to ask questions.
That's great Networking.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Oh, I'm terrible at networking, so networking is
something that I'm absolutelyrubbish at.
It terrifies me the wordnetworking terrifies me, Me too
it's.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, it feels like a dirty word.
I get a little afraid when Iwhen I say that.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
For anyone that is shy or yeah, it's, it's
terrifying, I think.
I just think you know you haveto find your crew, don't you?
You have to find the peoplethat feel like-minded.
And it's the same with castingdirectors, you know.
It's like you can often see whois trained with who you can see
(58:59):
.
You know people can see, theylook at my work or the way I
cast and they can kind of seewho I trained with and that's
kind of your tribe, that's yourgang.
And I think with actors it's thesame.
It's like you know.
Find people that you've gotstuff in common with um and and
network in a way that feelsreally comfortable to you.
(59:22):
Like, don't do anything thatdoesn't feel comfortable.
You don't have to go to all theplaces and all the things and
be present all the time, likeyou really don't.
And I think there's a lot ofpressure on actors now to be
constantly visible.
Um, particularly with socialmedia, media, I don't believe
that at all.
I mean, I personally have nointerest how many followers
(59:46):
somebody has, because whetherI'm going to cast them out it's
got nothing to do with.
And I think there's a realpressure on actors to be visible
.
But you can be as visible or asinvisible as you want to be.
And again it goes back tostaying true to yourself and not
trying to fit in with everybodyelse, because it never works
when we try and fit in withanyone else it's not authentic.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I love that.
Yeah, and just okay to wrap thegame up here.
My last one is a little silly,since adolescence is a heavier
topic.
Favorite crafty snack.
When you're on set, what's yourfavorite go-to snack?
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
okay, well, recently I went on set on a set visit and
I was pretty devastated by thecraft because it was really
healthy oh and I was just likeno this is not why I came on set
.
I wanted to eat like carbs.
So for me, when I go on set, Ijust love comfort food, so
(01:00:42):
that's what I'm all like apudding, that's like cake and
custard or like a reallyold-fashioned pudding.
I think those things when I goon set, I really get very
excited about, and I think lotsof craft food is becoming very
healthy these days.
So, yeah, maybe I need to lookelsewhere.
I love a good pudding on set.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I love that.
I was a crafty PA on a film along time ago and it was the
most dangerous job because I,you know, someone would take an
M&M and then I would refill itbut also take one for myself,
and I spent about 14 hours justeating standing by the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I remember when I first went, did a set visit and
I discovered what a craft tablewas and it blew my mind.
Yeah.
I was like, how can you walkpast it and not take something?
I know, I know, which is whynow it's all apples and bananas
and oranges and everybody justwants a chocolate biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Yeah, it's very tricky.
I'm such a foodie.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Or a carrot.
Nobody wants a carrot.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Unless it's dipped in chocolate.
Well, maybe that would be bad,I don't know, but I'd probably
eat it.
Well, shaheen, it was so lovelyto chat with you.
I know I got to let you go andI would just appreciate if we
could end our time together byyou sharing a gotten and a given
.
And so we always end everyepisode with our guests sharing
the best piece of advice they'vegotten in this industry and
then the best they have to givenow, looking, you know, forward
(01:02:07):
on their journey.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Oh my gosh, I know they're big questions.
They are huge questions and Iwon't at all remember any of
anything, but I suppose my bestadvice to give I think people
can get really caught up in youneed to be this place at this
time in front of this person.
You need to get ahead, you needto be 20 steps ahead of the next
(01:02:30):
person, and I don't believethat.
Get ahead, you need to be 20steps ahead of the next person,
and I don't believe that.
I think my advice is always youknow, for me anyway is like
keep my head down, do my job tothe best of my ability, and
that's what gets me more work.
You know, my work is myshowcase, not me, but my work,
and so I think, just do your jobthe best that you can do it,
(01:02:54):
and that should be your focus.
And someone said that once tome and it's like yeah, that's,
that's absolutely true.
So that's where the networkingdoesn't.
I'm terrible at that, but Ijust go right, I'm going to do
my job the best I can do it, andthat's the thing that I'm
putting out into the world, andpeople will either like it or
they won't.
Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
I love that.
Do your job and always have,you know, some kind of chocolate
pudding nearby.
Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Or any pudding really .
Any pudding.
God advice to give.
I think really we've talkedabout it at several points, but
it's being honest, it's beingtrue to yourself, not trying to
fit into anybody else's mold.
It's like you know there'snothing more boring than you
know.
A load of students graduatingdrama school and they all
(01:03:43):
feeling like the same, I meanthat's really boring.
It's like we're looking forindividuals, we're looking for
people who've got their ownunique energy style.
You know happening and I justthink so.
Really, please don't, you don'tneed to fit into any mold.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
That's a wonderful reminder to end on.
Thank you for that.
I know everyone out therelistening appreciates it.
I'm going to write it down,been hanging up on my wall
somewhere.
Jean, it was so lovely to meetyou and I am just grateful, not
only for adolescence, but thatwe have kind leaders like you to
look up to, and I wish you themost amount of luck and
chocolate pudding this Emmyseason and beyond.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Thank you very much and thanks for letting me have
Felix join.
Yeah, that's his firstinterview, is it?
Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Okay, I am absolutely honored.
Thank you, Felix.
Felix was amazing.
My cats didn't get to make itin, but next time maybe they'll
have a little play date I canpop them in.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Thank you so much.
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