How to Capture Your Best Actor Headshots with Sub/Urban Photography

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Jake.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
I'm Amanda.

Speaker 1 (00:01):
And we are Suburban Photography.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
And this is how we Roll.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Are you ready for your close-up?

(00:40):
Thank you for tuning in to howwe Roll, episode 3.
Third time's the charm.
As we continue to roll down thecreative path, let's stop at one
of the essential needs forartists looking to break into
the business Headshots.
Yes, the shots of our headsthat almost act as an ID pass to

(01:01):
swipe at the gateway of ourbusiness Beep.
To break down this topic, weenlisted my very favorite
headshot photographers here inNew York City Suburban
Photography.
This is truly a must listen foranyone about to take headshots.
They drop so many gems likehacks on what clothes to wear,
posing naturally you know whensomeone screams, act natural and

(01:24):
you sort of freeze like a deerin headlights or at least I do
and really how to get the mostout of your headshot session.
To be real for a moment, I geta little nervous when I go into
these actor headshot sessions, Ithink because it feels like
there's so much pressure to getquote, unquote the right shots,
whatever that means.
However, after talking to thesetwo, I feel so much better and

(01:44):
empowered.
Even Today's glittering guestsare Amanda Pinto and Jake
Nathanson of SuburbanPhotography.
Suburban's origin began in aclassic high school darkroom
learning the fundamentals,before the digital revolution
swept in.
Their love of photographyblossomed at NYU, where a

(02:07):
friend's need for a headshotsparked a creative fire.
Amanda and Jake quickly becamea dynamic duo embracing the
ever-changing world ofphotography.
Flashing forward get it FlashLike a camera flash.
They have photographed belovedtalent like Emmy and Tony winner
Billy Porter, done commercialwork with amazing brands and

(02:28):
found joy in photographingactors just like you and me.
Beyond the lens.
Amanda deals with differentkinds of close-ups as a director
and actor, while Jake alsowields his creativity through
writing, video editing andcinematography.
I have been fortunate to workwith these two many times and
cannot say enough kind wordsabout them.

(02:49):
I only can hope that I didn'ttalk so fast that suburban
sounded like suburban.
You know suburban as in the caryou used to drive in the
suburbs suburban like thesuburbs.
Anyway, for more information,please visit
sub-urbanphotographycom or, tomake it easy, you can click the
link here in the show notes.

(03:15):
Before we dive into thatconversation, friends, I want to
remind you out there listeningthat this podcast is truly for
you.
We want to know how we can helpyou roll along this industry.
So stay tuned to CastingNetwork's social channels for
opportunities on submitting yourquestions, topics etc.
To be answered right here onthe mic.

(03:37):
That's right, we want tofeature you.
Now let's feature today'sguests.
Please welcome the dynamic duoof Amanda and Jake.
A and J AJ, aj, that's a name.
This is how we roll withSuburban Photography.
Amanda and Jake, my friends,how are you?

(04:10):
It's been so long Hi.
It's been so long.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
I'm doing well, I'm having fun on this pod rolling
around Listeners.
Today we have on two old palsof mine who I would say are
iconic New York Cityphotographers specializing in
actor headshots Amanda Pinto andJake Nathanson.
Amanda is also an actor anddirector.
Jake is a writer,cinematographer and editor.
So between the two of them,they basically understand the

(04:35):
entire business and are going togive us lots of golden nuggets
of wisdom today.
Welcome, amanda and Jake.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Thank you, thanks for having us, thanks for having us
.
It's great to see you.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Good to see you both too.
For context, I would love tostart somewhere that I don't
think I know the answer because,though I have taken my photos
with you and cannot recommendyou both enough, I don't know if
I got the chance to ask.
I was probably running aroundlike a Muppet.
So, just for context, can yougive us your sort of Marvel
origin story of how you two cameto capturing headshots?
I know it started as far backas maybe learning about it in

(05:07):
high school and then gettingamped up in university.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
It did In fact it has its humble roots in the
Cleveland Ohio area.
Jake and I actually went tohigh school together, so we've
known each other a very, verylong time.
And in high school we had weactually took the last year of
film photography that wasoffered.
Right after we graduated.
They sold off all of the filmdeveloping materials and

(05:32):
switched it over to a digitallab.
So that age of us is you knowvery comfortable millennials,
but yeah, so that's where wesort of learned.
You know the basics and I thinkwe had both always had like
interest in cameras andphotography, but that was where
we sort of really learned thefundamentals.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I feel like film photography and that's why I'm
I'm so bummed that it's not athing for young people as much
as it used to be.
Just a part of standardeducation was that it was such a
meditative and very quiet partof the day where you would go in
and you were in this dark roomand you were pulling film out of
a roll and just like slowlyworking your prints through

(06:09):
these chemicals and having toexperiment and not getting it
right and going back and doingit again, and it just felt so
different from the rest of theday when we had it like kind of
like right in the middle of theday too.
Yeah, it's like right beforelunch or something way to break
it all up, um, and so I thinkthat also was a big part of it
as far as it becoming thisslightly more expressive hobby,

(06:32):
because you felt like a breakfrom all the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, totally, and then yeah, I mean film,
photography is you learn allthese things of like?
You know what dodge and burnthese commands that we use on
our computers now like what theyactually mean when you know
what you do with your hands.
You know dodging, dodge andburn these commands that we use
on our computers now like whatthey actually mean when you know
that's what you do with yourhands.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
You know dodging that kind of thing Papers, exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
But then from there we both went to undergrad.
I was a drama major at NYU,jake was studying psychology and
creative writing and we werejust kind of the friends who
always had cameras around.
And because I had so many youknow actor friends that I was in
school with and ironically,jake's roommate shout out to Max
Sheldon, who was our OGsuburban headshot client, jake's

(07:11):
roommate, classmate of mine, hehad like an audition coming up
and he was like hey, can youguys take a quick headshot for
me?
It just needs to be somethingsimple.
And so we were like, oh, we cantry, sure.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
And so we uh you know , ran outside our dorm over to.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
It was second Avenue and 12th 11th 12th, you know,
found a really nice brick wall.
This was also, you know, 2011.
At this point and uh, hopped upagainst the brick wall, and that
was, you know, that was thefirst time we took a headshot.
And, uh, from there it just sortof became a thing that we did
for friends in undergrad.
And then, as we sort of startednearing the end of our college
experience, you know, realizingthe realities of being artists

(07:51):
living in New York City, it's,you know, has its ups and downs.
Having some sort of stableincome in a field that we both
really liked, you know, wassomething that we really cared
about.
And so towards the end of oursenior year, we were like maybe
we should try to put some timeand energy into, like, making
this more of an officialbusiness.
And so we both actuallygraduated a semester early from

(08:12):
college, and so we had a littlebit of a buffer between, you
know, all of our friendsfinishing school and us being
official graduates, and so weuse that time to really sort of,
you know, take on new clients,sort of expand out of our NYU
network, and from there that'sreally sort of when we started
to take it seriously.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
And so from there we, you know, 2016 marked the full
time transition where that wasthe goal, for I think it was
pretty early in the year that wedecided to quit our other
little survival jobs we hadgoing and just put what we could
into the business, and therewas a lot of oh God, what do we
just do?

(08:50):
For the first couple of monthsof that, and then, by the end of
the year, I think we had bookedout our first like full month
of clients in advance, and thatwas that, and now the calendar
is popping off as it should be,and I'm so glad that y'all
followed this passion.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
I think that's great advice right there too.
If you're going to have a dayjob, which newsflash?
We all kind of need one in thisbusiness, Unless you got some
sort of sugar, something youknow which no shame there cannot
come into.
I think that it might as well bean entertainment, you know,
because then that's always beenmy philosophy too.
Then you're sort of surroundedby people that can connect you

(09:29):
on other projects and maybe workwith them in a different regard
.
So I think that's awesome.
I would love to know, before wereally break down headshots and
all the magic that you two dotogether, along with some of
your friends, in hair and makeup, what would you say is the
purpose of a headshot for anactor?
I know that's kind of a simplequestion, but to you, how would
you distill that?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, what is the proper distillation?
I mean it's a functional andhopefully expressive picture of
a person that leaves a reallydistinct or specific impression
of them, especially for someonethat's never met them Should be
introducing.
Yeah, it's the opener for whathopefully will turn into a

(10:13):
slightly more in-person andreciprocal relationship in some
way, which I know is difficultin this day of digital
submissions and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
It feels like you're kind of sending everything out
to the void, but you know wealways tell our clients to
especially.
You know we'll get into this too, but headshots can be super
nerve wracking.
For a lot of people Makes totalsense.
It's, you know, a big day, butthat you know, a headshot is
essentially a business tool.
Obviously you want it to besomething that is expressive and
artful and, you know, reflectswho you are.

(10:43):
But the headshot, at the end ofthe day, the goal is that it's
like you get an audition or, youknow, you book a job from it,
and so trying to combine allthose elements into an image
that introduces you as who youare and you know what you want
to be, you know portraying oryou know living through those,
through a character, you knowwhether it be something that's

(11:03):
commercial, legit, whatever, butthat that photo can feel like
it's true, it's representationof you, so that you know when
you end up in the room they'llbe like oh, this picture, this
is exactly the person that'sstanding in front of me, or the
person that you know is on onthe little zoom screen or
whatever it is now.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
But yeah, these days that's such a wonderful
definition.
You both had an introductoryand then an impression.
You know you want to make agood first impression but you
also want to make sure it'snatural and it's you.
You don't want to be sort ofover retouched and have longer
hair and then walk in with shorthair and, you know, just like a
totally different face.
So I think that's a wonderfulway to put it.
Well, you know, we mentionedearlier as multi-hyphenates

(11:40):
yourselves when you firststarted taking these headshots
for actors, what was somethingthat initially sort of surprised
you in these sessions as youwere learning Just having been
artists and, I'm sure, gettingyour picture taken over the
years.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think something that shocks me still to this day
is just, yeah, I think the waythat and you know society, it's
a tough place out here, but theway that people will sometimes
come to a session with such, youknow, fear I will say dread
sometimes, fear and nerves,totally normal dread.
Sometimes I'm a little like ohno, like I'm so sorry.

(12:14):
You've been dreading this forweeks and weeks and weeks.
It's like let's make this a funexperience.
It's something that you knowyou can walk away from feeling
good about because you know,hopefully, a good headshot
session will lead you to photosthat get you more auditions and
more jobs, which is, you know,what every actor wants.
And so, from kind of early on,we started to notice like, oh,
this is a really delicate dayfor a lot of people, and so I

(12:36):
think that that's something youknow us also coming from
backgrounds of you know Iunderstand what it feels like to
go into an audition room.
Jake understands what it's likebeing a creative on the other
side of the table you know thosekinds of things and approaching
our work with those concepts inmind and trying to, like you
know, lower the stakes as muchas possible to be like let's
just have fun.
Let's just, you know, create aspace where we can hang out,

(12:59):
chill, you know, but you justlike to talk a lot when we're
shooting, it's really likenothing too crazy.
Besides that, and just keepingthings, you know, light and fun,
as opposed to making it feellike this huge, like this, must
be the most pure expression ofyour artistic soul in this one
image, kind of vibe.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, you take the pressure out, and that's
something I always say when Irecommend y'all which I'll never
stop doing is that you makepeople so comfortable, but you
also make it really fun, Likeyou're saying.
I think the first time I bookedwith you, you were making baked
goods and you literally gave mesome kind of I want to say it
was like some kind of Germandessert I'd never had before.
It was really.
I can't remember what it was.
No, maybe it was just like cakewith a brownie on the bottom.

(13:38):
I don't know, but it wasamazing and I still dream about
it.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I'm trying to think of what it would have been.
Yeah, that's really funny,Because now I'm like I shouldn't
make it.
I'm trying to think what youwere making in 2017.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
I don't know, it could have been something.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I don't know.
It was like a cinnamon pastrykind of thing with cream cheese.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Oh, there might have been cream cheese involved.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm so black to you?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
No it was very memorable.
Good first impression.
I mean people when they give mesugar.
I never forget it.
But I want to run down sort ofa headshot session with the both
of you while we have you here,to try and get some really good
tips for everybody listening outthere.
I know personally, again, howwonderful it is to work with you
.
So from the moment you book viaemail or whatever it is, what's
sort of the next step?

(14:25):
Do you pick an actor's brainabout roles they're hoping to
play?
How do you kind of worktogether to get an actor's needs
met?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, I mean so for that from that initial booking
process we hit people with a lotof fine print even before they,
to try to communicate asclearly what it is that we're
asking of them to make it reallysuccessful.
We also, you know, attempt totry to have some transparency

(14:54):
about turnaround time, a bit ofthe experience, some photos of
the space, you know, like that'sall stuff that's accessible.
So it doesn't feel and I thinkwe're even trying to pivot a
little bit more to that, becauseI think when we were first
coming up, there was this likeveil of mystery on top of all
these headshot photographersthat you didn't really know what
you were about to walk into.

(15:14):
And I feel like I'm subscribingmore and more to stripping as
much of that mystery away, causeI don't think it builds up
nerves again.
It's like another part of likeI'm not sure who to expect?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Who are these people?
What's the day going to looklike?
Um, so yeah, so we try to be aslike, transparent, upfront as
possible with you know.
This is where you're going togo, this is what the space is
going to look like, this is howwe're going to start, which you
know.
And one more thing before youknow, we meet people, you know
our clients face to face is wehave like a booking
questionnaire, so we just sortof like to get some preliminary
questions out of the way just togive us a little bit of a taste

(15:46):
of what somebody might belooking for that day, and we
need to have special thingsprepared or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
And it helps us to kind of put them into a frame of
mind that we're approaching thewhole thing from that.
We want you to think reallypragmatically about some of this
stuff, because in a headshotand this is also what you can
say about any good photo periodis that the photo is only as
interesting as what is in theframe, and that could also be

(16:16):
what is not in the frame as wellas what all is in the frame.
So something that is reallyabout somebody's face, like
that's its own choice, somethingthat's about the outfit as well
as the backdrop as well as thelighting, like all these
elements play in to indicatereally different things.
And I think our goal is to helppeople understand that they are

(16:37):
not the only thing that makesthis happen.
Like their preparation is whatmakes it happen.
Their wardrobe choices, thecollaboration that we have, the
lighting that we choose to beworking with that day, with them
all that kind of stuff likehelps to make that image, so
that when people come in feelinglike they have to like bare
their souls in front of thecamera, like it's, it's not

(16:58):
quite that serious because weget to let all the other stuff
do some talking as well.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true, and you reminded me,
actually, of a book I startedreading that I really have no
business quoting because Ihaven't finished it, but it's
called the Science ofStorytelling and in it it talks
about how the brain is addictedto change, and change is what
makes people curious.
So sort of the prime shot forevery director is usually what a
close up of an actor seeingsomething, seeing change you

(17:26):
know, seeing the buildingexplode or whatever it is.
So in a headshot session I feellike, if I don't know, it's
probably helpful for actors tocome in thinking about maybe
changes they're going to bewitnessing or just whatever it
is.
I'm someone who kind of goes inand likes to let people that
are talented like you sort ofdirect me and give me the way to
go.
I'm also aware of what I kindof need.
So maybe we can go through abit of that questionnaire what

(17:49):
are some of the things you wouldadvise people out there think
about if they aren't blessedenough to be able to come to New
York and work with you?
Absolutely Before going into asession.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Totally.
So.
You know, first, I guess, wealways ask people what their
pronouns are and then from therewe usually like to ask, over
the course of the next three tofive years, what are three to
five types of characters thatyou see yourself playing or that
you want to play, and these canbe things that you're getting
called in for currently.
They can be things that maybeyou're not getting called in for

(18:20):
currently but you really feellike, oh, like I know, I really
want to be like a DA on law andorder, but I never get those
calls.
I always get victim or whateverthat kind of thing might be.
Um, so that gives us a bit of ataste of you know what kind of
wardrobe we should be looking at, what kind of background
choices you should be makinglighting choices, that kind of
thing to all indicate thosecharacters.

(18:41):
I think that, um, depending onwhat market you're working in, I
think headshots can sort oflook a little bit different and
ask different things of actors.
So, like you know, in LA forexample, I feel like sometimes
they like those choices to be alittle bit more obvious, like
they might want to see you likeif you want to be a doctor and
an LA show, they might want tosee you in a lab coat, like
that's just what we've noticedas like a trend with clients who

(19:03):
come in with, you know, westcoast representation, whereas in
new york sometimes they're alittle bit more like, oh, we'd
love to see you know a hint ofit, like maybe wear something
blue, but we don't need to seeyou, you know, with a
stethoscope around your neck,kind of thing.
Um, but yeah, so like littledifferences, like that, but all
leading towards the same youthing, which is that, because

(19:24):
this industry has become soheavily reliant on online
submissions and like thedigitization of everything that
you know, I, like you'vementioned, we work on film
projects too.
So, like you know, being on thereverse side of a platform like
that becomes reallyilluminating.
When you're like, oh wow, thesepeople, these you know lovely
professionals who work incasting, sit here day in and day

(19:46):
out and just look through seedsof images, just like scrolling
and scrolling, thumbnails,thumbnails, thumbnails.
So when we're picking out, youknow, the sort of lighting
wardrobe, all those kinds ofthings, it's like what is the
thing that we can sort of grabsomeone's attention with?
That pops from a technicalperspective, and then also it's
like, oh, someone's attentionwith that pops from a technical
perspective.
And then also it's like, oh hey, I'm submitting for you know

(20:10):
girl next door, 18 to 20, youknow loves, you know pink or
whatever, something like that.
And it's like what can we sortof hint at in those images that
when someone's scrolling throughyou know 500 pictures, they'll
be like oh hey, that looks kindof like what I was picturing, or
that looks like what when I waswriting this breakdown, like
that's what I was envisioning.
And so that's sort of you knowcircling back long winded
explanation as to like why weask that question is that it's

(20:30):
like that is sort of thedirection the industry has
headed in and so we want to beable to support actors and
giving them sort of the bestshot of you know standing out in
a digital sphere.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, an amazing headshot can give you
exponentially more at bats, soto speak.
I noticed that after workingwith you on having your
headshots, I was getting incalled so many more times than
the ones I was using, which,granted, I will say, before I
got my first headshots, my momkind of I won't say bullied me
into getting my eyebrows waxed.
But she did, she did recommendit.
She said that's what actors do,and so there's some pencil thin

(21:04):
, weird shots out there of mewhich I don't know why I'm
bringing it up.
Might cut this part.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Anyway, or you should put it with this link I think
we should see the pictures.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, here we are.
I have them next to me.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
It goes eight by ten.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
That would be frightening, but it is, yeah, to
express sort of the essence ofa character like you're saying
that you want to play iswardrobe and what I noticed with
the both of you something sofun.
I don't know if you want me tocall this out, but a tip you
have in your confirmation emailsis to buy clothes that you know
, speak to you, that you love,and just keep the tags on and
you can always return them after, because brand new clothes look

(21:49):
better on camera and that Inever returned any of the
clothes I bought, but that hasreally stuck with me.
Yep, do you still advise that?

Speaker 1 (21:57):
We definitely.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Off the record.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we definitelydo.
Okay, okay, off the record.
I don't know how many At Zara.
I don't know how many At Zara.
I know Sorry Zara, Sorry H&M, Idon't think any Zara CEOs are
tuning into this.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
No, no.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, probably not.
That could be very naive andalso, people probably don't
return them in the end.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
A lot of people will pick something and they'll be
like, actually I think I reallylove this shirt, and then
they'll end up keeping it, youknow that was brought in just
for the day which felt likeeveryone was like don't mess
with the jacket.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
But it looked amazing , it looked great.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
So if you're willing to take that, we're not saying
go that crazy, but fresht-shirts.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
It did make some of those shots real good, some
indie films and like commercialsthat I've worked on, do that
Like they keep the tags on andthen they return it after it's
all about the budget.
Tags on and then they return itafter it's all about the budget
and you know if it's gettingthat moment to shine why not?

Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think that's a great yeah.
Or it's like things you mightnot wear every day, like I feel
like that's another big one.
Where it's like, oh, you know,when reps get involved and have
big asks and that kind of thing,where it's like, oh, they
really want me in, you know,like a pinstripe blazer or
something like that, like I'llnever wear this.
It's like go pick up thepinstripe blazer, we'll take the
shot and then you know, maybeyou'll like it, you'll keep it.
If you don't like it, return it.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Now there's rumors out there and sometimes we see
it on really hit TV shows wheresomeone's wearing stripes and
the shot's a little fuzzy.
Are there things you recommendpeople don't wear for headshots?
Are those sort of myths?

Speaker 1 (23:19):
There's definitely.
There is something.
There's something really reallyspecific on camera that happens
when a pattern is too tight,and when I say that I mean like
it's really really like it'salmost like a thread by thread
pattern that has to happen, andit's called moire and it's this

(23:43):
very weird like purple and green, kind of like pixelated funky
effect where the sensor is liketrying to make sense of all of
this.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
You described that so well.
This knowledge is blowing mymind.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I know exactly what you're talking about and it's
like not even necessarily apatterned shirt Like we had
someone recently come in with,like a silky corset top.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
A lot of it has to do with the texture of the shirt
itself, like it'll be a weirdkind of shiny like where it
looks good in person, but thatis like that's so specific.
Otherwise, almost any pattern,any color besides like neon
stuff, or like there's thisreally funky like corally orange

(24:16):
that perpetually doesn't playwell with skin tones once the
light hits it, I feel like yeah,that's really it.
I feel like this is like myniche.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Top three yeah, but Okay, this is interesting, avoid
that bright corally orange,anything with a really fine
pattern like tiny little dots,tiny little lines.
It's just again.
You know, when you think aboutit getting shrunk down to, it's
like no one's going to really beable to make that out.
But I think there were a lot ofand still exists to this day, a
lot of headshot rules thatpeople like to you know put out

(24:44):
there that it's like it has tobe a jewel tone with a this and
a that Like.
My favorite one was.
Someone once said I heard youalways have to show one ear in a
headshot and I was like I ifyou want to show an ear, let's
go forit you know, I don't know if you
have to show one ear and everyheadshot.
But things like that where it'slike you know, if you love
florals or something, it's likewhere are florals?

(25:05):
You watch TV.
It's like this is another thingthat we try to recommend to
people too.
If they're kind of stuck inwardrobe which we know, it's
like picking out clothes can bereally daunting for a lot of
people.
It's like not everybody youknow is, you know, paying that
much attention to styling allthe time.
But if you watch TV shows likeyou know, if you want to be on
I'll use like White Lotus for anexample I feel like they have a

(25:28):
really great, except fiveminutes later we've sung the
whole thing.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Why not?
And Jennifer Coolidge come onin.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, she's going to sing, but yeah, so like that
show I feel like is reallyspecific because of the location
.
You know it's like somewheretropical, it's vacation.
You know it's like somewheretropical, it's vacation.
You know, like I think thatfirst season we had a friend
come in.
He was like, oh, I really lovethe general manager of that show
, like I want to play a partlike that, and so he brought in,

(25:58):
like you know, a Hawaiian printshirt and we used the yellow
background and you know, withthe lighting and sort of
combination of expression, itwas totally you could see him
existing in.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
It was like a little mischievous and it's in his
expression and just the way.
But the interplay with thewardrobe, it just like it
indicates something.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, you could be like, okay, white loads of
season two or three or whatever,it's like we could totally see
this guy, you know, existing inthat world.
So it's things like that where,if you're you know, shows that
you really want to be on, orlike you know, if you love
Shondaland or something likethat, you know, sort of in those
veins.
It's like watch some of thatcontent, see what the people are
wearing on TV, and then, youknow, make your own choices from

(26:38):
there, sort of be inspired bythat.
People love to layer on TV,which is what we always
recommend too.
It's like layers read so wellon camera.
Yes, you know, it just addsmore texture.
Again, it's like the picture isjust, you know, mid chest up, so
it's like one of the littlethings that we could sort of fit
in there to make it moreinteresting, like Jake said, and

(26:59):
also, you know, continue tosort of hint at characters.
So, you know, like a T-shirtwith a hoodie and a jean jacket.
You know we're always down tolike try different things like
that and see what those littlechanges can do.
Um, but those again, all thosethings can sort of, you know,
make a big difference.
In the end it might seem kindof small, but when you look at
the picture it'd be like oh,that grabs my attention versus.

(27:20):
You know, maybe something justwith a plain blue t-shirt might
look nice.
Still, there's nothing wrongwith a plain blue t-shirt, um.
But there are ways that you cansort of exactly no, no hate,
can't hate on blue t-shirts, um.
But yeah, they're just thingsthat can be more interesting
because, like you know, again,people on tv aren't usually just
wearing like plain bluet-shirts, I don't know call me
crazy.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Someone can call me out, not necessarily so would
you say, the more options peoplecan bring in, the better sort
of strategically strategicoptions.
Yes, we bring in the betterSort of strategically Strategic
options.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yes, we regularly get the suitcase wardrobe explosion
where it's like every mainrotation item ends.
You for the first time mostlikely are making sense of your
career.
For you that that is not agreat place to start.

(28:21):
Have good ideas and we willprovide you kind of with like
the new york headshot starterpack.
As far as we're thinking superlogistically about what casts
most often here, like looking atthe body of work that you have,
like what, what can we inferabout the types of stuff that
you could be doing?
Um, but it's really helpful ifin that selection of things that

(28:44):
kind of pops out of thesuitcase, you can start to group
some stuff together on your own, like these all fit under the
umbrella category of like newage period piece, like
Bridgerton, something like that.
I like this neckline, I likethe way whatever, and then like
this is my procedural stuff orslash like succession-y sort of
world and it's a selection offour whatever button-ups or

(29:07):
pleasers we usually say thatlike somewhere around, like
three-ish options for each lookthat you're planning on shooting
is nice that way.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
We just have you know , if we try something and it's
not really working, we have somebackups.
Or, you know, we can sort ofstart to pair things off in a
way that maybe it's not howyou'd wear it in real life but
on camera you'll be like oh yes,this looks great.
Um, so just to sort of haveextra options without or, like
you're saying, without being tootoo crazy bringing the whole
closet.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Don't need to bring the whole closet Um.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Chuck, talking to your friends obviously
representation, if you have it,always talking to them friends,
family you can always check inand be like what looks good on
me, like what do you think Likecolors that you see me in that
you're like I love that.
Or like you know a shirt that Iwear that you always think
looks great.
Even little things like thatcan be like a good, um, you know
sounding board or a place tostart if you're feeling super
overwhelmed.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Um, take all that with a grain of salt as well.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Like the fact that you get well, I mean, yeah, if
you have like a budget, itdepends, you know, if you're
just having a friend, take thisyourself.
These are great things toreally think about.
But if you are spending themoney to go to great
photographers, find peace in thefact that they'll help you do
these things as well, know whatyou want going in, but the day
of you should be able to havefolks that are saying, oh, wear

(30:17):
this with this and this will begreat.
On this background, they'llcollaborate with you.
Don't feel like you have to bealone, and if you feel that way,
maybe you got to look elsewhere.
So this is helpful to know.
Another thing people getnervous about, too is kind of
the hair and makeup situation,and I know y'all used to have at
least someone your friend, alex, right that you partnered.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Still Alex, still around 10 years, strong, 10
years strong.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Alex took a little sabbatical for a couple of
months, but Alex has been backfor.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, pandemic sabbatical Thought.
Maybe Alex wanted to go to LA.
They went out the West Coast,realized they wanted to come
Visited home.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Phoenix actually, and spent most of the time there,
but then turned back around andis a New Yorker once again.
I love them, they're sowonderful.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
So wonderful.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Most places will have someone that can come in and
help you with that, that you cansort of like book an extra
wavelength I that can come inand help you with that, that you
can sort of like book an extrawavelength.
I don't even know what awavelength means.
That doesn't make any sense.
But I will say for tips ofpeople out there looking to go
into these sessions, one thingthat you all taught me just as a
male identifying person, youcan come in with scruff and then
shave to get more looks out ofthe session.

(31:22):
Obviously, a lot of otherpeople out there can do other
things with their face makeupwise that I wasn't going into
the realm of, but are therecertain things that you give
people as far as advice in thatregard too?

Speaker 1 (31:35):
yeah, big time.
I mean, I think that's huge.
I think for any maleidentifying clients who plan on
going on a facial hair journeyduring their session, that
looking grooming is a reallysmart thing to do, just because
you never know, no matter howgentle you're trying to be, if
you're going to nick yourself orhave some redness or irritation
that shows up and so the entireback half of your headshot

(31:57):
session are not usable,necessarily unretouched, and
that's also something that welike to try to provide as much
as we can, that there will befinal retouched images that are
kind of your main photos.
But we don't want you likeeverything is going to be
downloadable for you and thisdoesn't go for every
photographer necessarily, but welike you to be able to pay for

(32:17):
the download link.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
I've realized, yes.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Um, but we like you to just have all those images
because so much there's so muchemphasis on just the amount of
content one person is supposedto have which I have my own
qualms with but to make it asusable as you can across the
entire session, from start tofinish, so that if a particular
shot feels right but you don'tfeel like spending the extra
money to have it retouched, youthrow it up there or submit it

(32:39):
with the audition, whatever itmight be, and see if it lands.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And grooming for us is sort of the way that we break
down our levels of makeupapplication.
We degendered our services along time ago, so we just try to
like break it down by theamount of makeup.
So grooming for us is sort ofour least amount of makeup
application and that's, you know, popular amongst male
identifying clients or peoplewho you know never, ever ever
wear makeup.
You know it's akin to the amountof makeup that, like you, if

(33:04):
you went on a TV show, robert,that you you know that kind of
makeup that they would put onyou.
So just kind of covering upbags, uneven skin tone, that
kind of thing, just to sort of,you know it makes the final
product just a little bit morepolished.
We always encourage people toselect those services.
We don't require them justbecause we do realize that it
can be a financial burden forsome people, but we do highly

(33:26):
suggest booking an artistbecause the products that they
use and you know, that sort ofprofessional touch can make a
big difference in the finalproduct.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's just an understanding of how makeup
communicates with light.
And even for I feel like when werun into the most issues, it's
people who quote unquote don'twear a whole lot of makeup on a
daily basis, but they definitelythey wear makeup, and out of
fear of either having hadsomebody put too much makeup on

(33:55):
them before in the past or justnot really being down to let go
of control of that situation,which, once again, is completely
understandable.
That is kind of like the sweetspot of makeup that we do for
the majority of our headshotsessions and that Alex is
particularly good with, and Ithink that that is way more of a
trend these days than it usedto be, where you're a little

(34:15):
safer, coming into a situationwith a makeup artist, that they
will understand what it isyou're trying to go for, but so
much of it is just like skincoloration, shine reduction, the
type of like if a product hasSPF in it, that flashes back in
a really funky way, and sosomething that you, in your
day-to-day life, you thought wastotally fine.

(34:36):
The second the light hits it,and then we're kind of out of
luck because we don't have ourmakeup artist kit with us to be
able to like give to you to puton your own face.
That's really helpful.
So, yeah, we really, we reallydo emphasize it as an important
extra thing.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, and I mean Alex .
We're very fortunate to haveworked with Alex for so long and
, you know, obviously trust themimplicitly you know we realized
that that's not the case foreverybody.
But you know, if you aresearching for a makeup artist,
you know, obviously, if it's aphotographer whose work you
really like.
You know the majority of thetime it's like their portfolio.
If you like those images, it'slike the makeup artists that

(35:13):
they like to work with are theones that they refer.
So you know, if you've seen thepictures, you like the way they
look, if you can trust them,you know trust, trust their
opinion and trust what they'rerecommending, because that
rapport is also something that'sreally important.
Um, you know we're good friendswith another headshot
photographer shout out to JessOsborne and, uh, you know we
talk about makeup a lot and Iknow, for her especially, that

(35:36):
that is a big um, a big thing.
For you know, everyphotographer uses different
kinds of lighting, differentkinds of cameras.
So, you know, working withsomebody who that photographer
has worked with before I alwaysfind to be, you know, super
important, because thatrelationship is also very
valuable.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
That makes a lot of sense, and I also feel like
there's something to be said forjust you can't put a price on
feeling more confident duringthe session, and if makeup helps
with that as well, you're notgoing to be retouched.
I mean, listen, I don't knowwhat's going on with AI, let's
not bring them into the chat,but you're not going to be
retouched live during a session.
So it also might boost sort ofyour confidence.
Which leads me to anotherquestion I had for you too.

(36:18):
I feel like many peoplestruggle with posing naturally.
I mean, it's always fun whenyou're taking a photo and
someone's like be natural, andthen I just turn into like a
full on Muppet, you know.
So you two have such a gift formaking people feel really
comfortable right from the jump.
I think I know you always startwith a sillier face, or at
least you did for me, and maybeor maybe that was just my face.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Oh no, we still do.
No, that's that will never, die.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
I love that so much and so I mean what are your best
tips overall to help peoplerelax and feel confident?
Maybe things people can takewith them again if they aren't
blessed to be with y'all.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Absolutely.
I think that's something youknow.
As we've moved on in ourphotography journey, we've
started taking a lot of otherkinds of photography too as well
.
Like you know, portraiture,commercial work, that kind of
stuff.
So when we're working withpeople taking portraits,
something that I've learned orwe've learned, I think, really
in the past year is that totrust your instincts.
If there's anything you can do,just trust the ideas that you

(37:14):
have and the things that youwant to try and just try them.
You know this.
We try to, like you said, we tryto create as safe of a space as
possible to be like oh, I havethis idea for something, let me
try it.
And you know, nine times out of10, it usually is great.
So, as much as you can sort ofyou know, trust the thoughts
that you're having and followthrough on those, I feel like

(37:35):
that's a huge key to success.
And you know, if you're workingwith a photographer who you
know is a good photographer,hopefully they'll either be like
that's great, do that again.
Or they'll be like I see whereyou're going for, like let's try
something a little bitdifferent.
And it just sort of starts thatconversation in a way that
feels more organic than us beinglike okay, now put your hand on
your hip and put your otherhand in your pocket, which is a

(37:57):
totally valid version of this aswell, and we do that a lot of
the time too.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
And for headshots too , because, like that's more for
portrait stuff.
For head shots we're playing ina really tight frame, yeah, so
less is definitely more andhopefully that I would, I would
hope, to alleviate some pressurefor people about, if you're
coming in for a straight upheadshot session, like there's a
lot of guidance that we givethat's very minimal, um, to just

(38:24):
kind of keep someone within thebest like cause we're lighting
for face and here.
So if you step too much thisway or bend your body a little
bit too much that way, like itstarts to look really strange
and so we'll kind of put someparameters on that.
But for the portrait stuff iswhere, yeah, I feel like, if

(38:46):
anything, I want to start tohave people you know really look
through inspiration images andget an idea of, okay, so this
famous actor, like I feel likesomeone who's been killing
around, like Coleman DomingoEvery photo I've seen of him
just looks amazing.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Dream client.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
And if you start to dissect the positioning that
he's in.
It's insane, like if you wereto just like try doing that
yourself, like literallymimicking it, and it feels
ballistic.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Exactly, yeah, just like try to pull it back up.
Oops, I revealed that I havesweatpants on.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry , but I feel like to start to
feel comfortable.
Putting your body into thosetypes of positions and just
knowing what it feels like andhow much is going into that can
be really helpful, because Ithink the second we start to
push someone in that direction alittle bit, they go.
This feels really silly.

(39:36):
I'm like yes, it might feelthat's going to feel really
silly for a full-length portraitthat you're once again.
You're trying to make it lookinteresting, but it's like a
person just standing totallystraight forward towards the
camera.
That's a choice if we havegreat styling, a really cool
lighting gimmick or likesomething is going on to enhance
that starkness.
But it can also not look sogreat sometimes.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Well, it's a lot of trust and having that safe space
, like you two are emphasizing,which I think is so important
because, again, it is yourheadshot session, this is your
session.
So if someone's sort of pushingyou somewhere you don't want to
go, you should advocate foryourself and feel the need to.
You know you can push back.
You know, don't feel like youhave to just fully put your
trust in someone you're justmeeting.

(40:20):
I mean, I've gotten myheadshots done by someone that
was pushing me somewhere elsethat didn't work out.
And then you look at the photosand it's sort of very prevalent
in them and not things you wantto, you want to lead with.
So at the end of the day, youdo have to advocate for
yourselves.
And it's hard when you'respending that money and maybe
you're in the middle of thesession and starting to realize
it You're like, but you know youcan always stop.

(40:41):
Anyway, I will say once peoplekind of finish the photos,
another tough thing is pickingthem.
What's your advice for pickingphotos?
I know if you haverepresentation they'll weigh in
you can we always see the peopleonline?
I'm sure your feed is filledwith the people dumping maybe 10
photos and saying, hey, fam,you know what to do.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, it's one, three , five.
Yeah, it's always one, threeand five.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
I will say the first photo taken besides the silly
one is usually a good one.
Same with the first take of aself tape.
And then I do 45 more.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, and then you come back to it and being like,
actually I think you still don'tuse one, because you can't
possibly use one, that's thefirst take.
Yeah, it wasn't that easy.
Picking is tough.
We use a software called PixieSet.
I think it's pretty popularamongst a lot of photographers
now, but it's like an onlinegallery software that basically
generates your own website withyour proofs on it.

(41:33):
So we, you know, encouragepeople when we send that gallery
link or like share this withyou know, obviously, your
representation, friends, family,people that you trust, people
who know you, and then you knowthere's also value, I think, in
sharing with people that maybedon't know you so well, just to
sort of see what images you knowspeak to people.

(41:53):
The software that we use allowsyou to make favorites lists,
which is cool, so you can sortof like go through and compare
people's favorites.
A lot of times that's nice.
Like, if you know, I actuallyjust got an email this morning
from a client who said that allof his reps and him agree that
this one shot is like the mainshot.
Said that all of his reps andhim agree that this one shot is

(42:14):
like the main shot.
So if it's an image that, like,a lot of people are agreeing is
like, the money shot makes itinto a bunch of lists, yeah,
trust that.
That usually means something.
And then from there it's like.
You know, we also oftentimeswould recommend you know we send
kind of a lot of pictures.
We're a little trigger happy.
So you know, if you're gettinga couple hundred images,
sometimes I don't think it's abad idea to go through and sort
of make your own list of that,so like, maybe you narrow it

(42:36):
down to like oh, I like these 50pictures or whatever.
So that way you know the peoplewho are looking at those
pictures aren't going to pickthe one that you hate.
Or you know a shot that you'dbe like oh, I'd never, ever
choose that.
So you know, sometimes that canbe nice too, and like maybe mom
and dad don't necessarily haveto see all 300 because they'll
be like I love the moment you'resmiling, you look so happy,
you're like okay, but you know Iwant to be, like you know, a

(43:00):
bad guy.
I got to be a sad worker.
Exactly.
This is edgy.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
This is supposed brick wall, which I'm glad you
brought that up, because thatwas such a trend.
I mean, photos used to be blackand white.
We've gone through so manytrends.
It feels like now we still livein the space of sort of like
the Riverdale-y filter, likebluish kind of situation that's
at least I reconciled my mindwith like the sort of blurred
edges.
What would you say are thetrends now?
What are we moving toward?

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Not to date this episode Now.
Let's date it.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
This is a good question moving toward Not to
date this episode Now.
Let's date it.
I mean, all the advice you'vegiven is evergreen, but for now,
in 2024.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, what is the trend?
I think the trend is like alittle shady is how much
pressure there is on the actorto provide every possible bit of
content that they can wraptheir minds around for
themselves.
And I think that that is acrazy ask.

(43:55):
I think it puts so much timeand energy and effort for this
one individual to try to conjureup all of those things, and I
think that with that it becomessuper diluted at the same time.
Because if you have a photo ofyou doing like literally
everything, like well, like whatis there left to know about?

Speaker 3 (44:19):
like what is the?

Speaker 1 (44:21):
what is the mystery?

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Totally.
I've already seen them riding abike with eating ice cream.
You know, in this rom-com sceneor there is the pressure, like
you're saying, that's notsustainable, to, let's say, you
want to be on white Lotus, tofilm a scene that looks like
it's straight out of white Lotusand then have that to send to
casting full production.
You know, green screenbackground, whatever it is, it's
wild, wow.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, I think there is both beautiful things that
have come from this sort of likedigital revolution in the
industry and then also thingsthat make it, you know, more
difficult, more competitive, youknow, and it just yeah, like
you said, it just puts a lot ofdemands on the actor in a way
that I would say, you know, Ifinished drama school in 2011.

(45:06):
And I think things were verydifferent then.
Oh, I'm sorry I've been, oh,wow thank you for 2014 I went to
drama school in 2011.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I graduated in 2015 so yeah, thank you, jake, let's
pump the brakes um, yeahwikipedia exactly um, but yeah,
things were like totallydifferent then.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I think some of the things that we're seeing now
were like just starting tohappen.
I mean, like I went to school,we didn't, you know there was,
we had no reels, there was no,you know, none of that was being
taught.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
You're not allowed to access.
We were not allowed to access.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Any footage there was , we weren't allowed to have it
because it was like, even if youhad that video of you singing a
fierce you know song, youweren't allowed to have it.
So I think that thosedifferences now, and even like
headshots then, like when westarted taking headshots, first
of all the trend was outdoor.
We were like shooting prettymuch exclusively outdoor
headshots.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
And, you know, started with a brick wall and
then it moved to like blurreddown the street Lots of little
bokeh circles and like a really,really tight lens, and then,
yeah, it switched to like reallyheavily processed, like very
filmic but instagrammy lookingstudio lighting, and I feel like

(46:27):
now those of us who kind oflike jumped into that school I
feel like the portfolio isdiversifying, cause I think also
the thing about the headshotworld I don't think people
necessarily think about quite asoften is the photographer
getting fussy with their ownwork.
You know, it's like if you'vebeen putting people in the same

(46:47):
setup for two, three years, youstart to go a little crazy.
Like I'm like what is myversion of this?
And so I think for us it'sconstantly trying to get out of
the way of the person we'retrying to capture as much as
possible.
I think that's like what thenew approach is is that I'm not,

(47:10):
I don't want to stand in theway of getting the right shot
for that person, cause it's like, whether or not I woke up in
like a bright pink mood, like asa photographer, necessarily
like that is exactly the rightthing for this person, um, and
that could have been somethingthat we came up years ago as a
setup, but now it's important tobring it back, and so I think

(47:34):
that just trying to be a littlebit more discerning, person to
person- yeah.
And I think that that's comingacross to a little bit more in
like the general population Likeless mock up, more personality,
authenticity, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Authenticity is totally the word for it.
Yeah, it's like if you, I feellike maybe a couple years ago
the vibe was like everybody andyou know this is also very much
still in our portfolios likesolid colored backgrounds,
bright, fresh smiles.
I feel like that was sort ofthe vibe for everybody across
the board, like no matter whoyou were walked in, kind of like
saying either their rep saidthey needed this or like that's
just what you know everybodykind of had at the time.

(48:10):
I think that now that is stilltotally a part of the
conversation, but I think that,like Jake just said, like maybe
somebody you know that doesn'tmake any sense for them.
Like you know, I had a reallycool client the other day who
came in.
It was like a Bronx native andlike boxed and had like a really
cool like kind of like bowl cuthaircut and I was like I would

(48:32):
never in a million years do youknow, like the normal kind of
thing for you.
It just, you know it doesn'tmake sense for the kinds of work
you want to be doing is, youknow, talk like I want to go out
for like softie brothers movies, that kind of thing.
It's like the softy brothers,yeah, a headshot, you know, with
a lilac background in a in a,you know, floral shirt might not

(48:52):
make sense for the softybrothers that kind of might be
too soft.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Might be too soft wow , and it's safty.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I think I always keep saying softy, safty, safty.
I'm sorry to the brothers um,but yeah, but like trying to
really, and that's where youknow, again, we love living in
new york because there are somany amazing people who do this
and like I guess another secretabout the industry is that, like
we all kind of talk to eachother and, like you know, we
love our other photographerfriends, Like everybody is so

(49:18):
good at the thing that they do,Um, that it's like if you're
looking at someone's work andyou're like, oh, that, like I
love that because I feel likeyou know that's the kind of work
I want to be going out forthose pictures, Like you know,
give me that.
It's like go to that person,Like totally, because there is
enough.
You know, that's what's amazingabout living in New York, LA I
think even Atlanta now too, hasa lot of this going on.
But it's like there aredifferent photographers who you

(49:41):
know, have different things thatthey love to do and, you know,
do your shopping around.
Don't feel like you knowshopping around, don't feel like
you know you have to go to oneperson because that's like the
person to go to or whatever, um,but there's a lot of people
doing a lot of, you know, cooland different stuff.
So we've even heard I've heardthis from a few people who have
west coast representation andsomeone on the west coast can

(50:02):
tell me if this is not true.
Um, but they like people to goto two photographers.
A lot like they'll pick twodifferent people to sort of
create like they might send youto somebody who's a little more
like stripped down a little more, you know whatever, and then
they might send you to somebodywho is a little more commercial,
a little bit brighter, fresher,so that way you naturally kind
of get that variety in yourportfolio.

(50:22):
Mind you, I think you know wewe strive to do both of those
things in our session.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
So I don't think you have to go.
You're two people automatically, which is part of the magic of
both of you, and I do think it's.
You know I wanted to start thiswill be one of the earlier
episodes because it's just aninvaluable building block.
It's such an importantinvestment for your career as an
actor and I appreciate both ofyou.
I know we're running out oftime here, but I do have a quick
flash photography round.
I don't know if you saw what Idid there, but I'm just going to

(50:51):
throw out some statements ortopics and I would love you to
just shout out the first thingthat comes into your head.
So just like really quicklittle sound bites that are
relevant to today's topic.
Okay, Insert music.
Okay, Must have.
Look for an actor's headshotgallery.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Procedural Blazer man is nodding her head.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Okay, yeah we got a second.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Every rep like, no matter who it is.
Every rep is like.
You need something for aprocedure.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Sorry if you're in New York in particular, also LA,
but like that is the bread andbutter.
You could get cast in thatenvironment any day of the week
and they work on those shows sofast you you can't spend any
extra time with them.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Looking at a photo of you in a t-shirt, wondering
what you look like in a blazer,you have to put it on I worked
on a procedural once as an actorand when I got to set and they
were doing my hair and makeup,they were literally like on the
call sheet had printed out thepicture and they're like this is
exactly what we want you tolook like.
And it was.
I was in a white button, up ablack blazer and my hair was
like pulled back in a low bunand it was like that's because

(52:03):
of the headshot.
So you know, it's like if youcan do that and I think in that
world, especially because thingshappen so quickly, it's like
you know those shows run aroundthe clock all the time.
They don't have a lot of timein that industry to be, you know
, looking at pictures and beinglike I think they could maybe do
this.
So I think you're, jake, nailedit.
I would have said proceed tothe next one.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
That's spot on.
Yeah, it's so invaluable andthat happens a lot.
It's like wear what you'rewearing in your headshot or
bring the clothes that youauditioned in.
You know that's perfect advice.
Quick addendum.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
If you are selling 17 , do not need a blazer shot,
unless it's like a gossip girlstyle thing.
But it's not the same.
It's not the same.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, preppy's a little different.
That's a good event.
Okay, common headshot sessionmistakes actors make.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
You pick.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Oh, we hear that.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
I that took me a second.
I was like we hear that.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah, we hear that all the time and I think for
some stuff we appreciate havinga little bit more agency,
especially if we're kind of likeinspired by a wardrobe piece
for like, oh, let us buildsomething for you, um.
But I don't know like point ofview coming in with that mindset
of like.
I have a strong point of viewtoday, and this is also was

(53:20):
talking about when selectingyour photographer.
We've had people come insometimes and they will be
showing us inspiration imagesfrom a different photographer
that they liked.
And we'll be like Hmm, whydidn't you go to that?
Because we can do that, forsure, but I feel like point of
view from the jump, I like thisperson's work because this, this

(53:42):
and this, I see myself lookinggood in this sort of light or
this sort of setup, because Ithink it'll function in this way
.
And so look at the look at theportfolios, look at headshot
backgrounds from our work onlineor any other photographer's
work online that you're going toand be like I like that stuff.
That's, this is the stuff thatbrought me here today.

(54:02):
Um, and to just kind ofremember that, yeah, there's a
um that.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, there's a actress and like web designer,
digital guru.
Her name is Sarah Kleist andshe recently had this post where
she said you know, when you'regoing into a photo session, it's
like your photographer is yourphotographer, but ultimately you
are your own creative director.
And I think this comes to youknow, as we now again this

(54:28):
digital world so much content.
You know, you are ultimatelythe person who is sort of like
curating what your image isgoing to be and what your brand
is going to be.
We're happy to help out as muchas we possibly can along the
way, but you know, we want tomake sure you are 100 happy at
the end of the day and we can'tread your mind, unfortunately
wish we could.
But as much of that sort of workyou can do beforehand to know,

(54:49):
like what that is for you, thenwe are so amped to be able to
like collaborate, bounce ideasback and forth where you're like
, oh, you know, like I reallylove retro colors and like if I
could be on that 70s show forthe rest of my life, like you
know something like that that welove hearing things in that
vein, because then it gives us alot of ideas and we can start
pulling out options and be likewell, what do you think about

(55:10):
this, what do you think aboutthat?
But you know, it's sort of justhaving that information is
hugely helpful as opposed towalking in, being like I don't
know.
You guys can just do what youwant, which we're happy to do.
We're happy to do what we want,but we just want to make sure
that you, at the end of the day,are you know?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
feel confident they're for you the actor.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
Be intentional and thoughtful.
That's great.
What, overall, would you say isthe best pose as an actor for
headshots?
People are like what do I dowith my arms?
I'm sure it varies, but ingeneral, what's your advice on
that?

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Just like a little bit.
Hands in pockets are great.
I feel like if you don't knowwhat to do, just put your hands
in your pockets.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
We start almost every session with standing hands in
pockets.
Okay, just because that is themost basic thing, that's going
to look decent.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Give me your shoulders back just a little bit
.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Just a little bit.
I need that reminder.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Sometimes a little one way or the other favoring
can be nice.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Yeah, nice little turn side to side.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
One ear, only one ear , one ear, only that.
One ear, one lonely ear.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I'm always told I tend to like the ones where my
mouth is open, like just alittle bit, and it's like yo
like mouth closed or open,smiling.
I'm like okay, that's a weirdthing.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
I was told it's not a weird thing, but Because I
think the open mouth thingalmost became like a trend and I
think that some people's facesslash mouths just naturally do
that and I think for a lot ofpeople like it's not a
comfortable thing.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
So I feel like we.
That's once again.
That's case by case.
Then I think American GirlTeeth came into the conversation
and I think that's what killedit.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Oh, you know, remember that whole other AGT,
the other one.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yep, exactly.
It was like once.
Everyone was like oh, thatlooks like American girl doll
mouth.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Then all of a sudden it was like okay, no more, no
more part of that, no more ofthat.
Speaking of American girl dolls, I want to know what your
thoughts are on props.
Holding props during a sessionI'm sure it differs depending on
the market, as you said before,but do people ever bring?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
things.
You know that's a greatquestion.
I'm not going to yuck any yumsbecause I'm trying to think of
if there's been a context whereI thought it was totally right.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
We had somebody once bring in some action figures and
it wasn't not right.
It wasn't necessarily somethingthat I think everybody across
the board would be like.
Yes, that's it, but I rememberthat their reps were very happy
with the shots.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it If
it's super specific to you, ifthat is something you have, but
this also, then oh, now you gota whole can of worms that you're
opening here.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Because the branding thing and also that session that
we are now able to offerbecause of being in a larger
space where we do it's like asix-look package with both
headshots and portraits bothheadshots and portraits
Portraits are a big part of thetrend right now of like really
well-rounded website.
As far as headshots, it's afunctional thing that goes onto

(58:18):
a casting platform and they needto fit into that environment in
a way that it's not jarring butat the same time it stands out
Branding stuff.
Somebody likes you.
They want to go to your websiteand see what's up.
That's where I think it isasking a lot of a person.
But at the same time, websitecreation has gotten so good now

(58:39):
and a lot of people are reallyskilled at doing it, that if all
you have on your actor websiteis your resume and your
headshots and like a coupleYouTube links, it will start to
diminish, like the presentationof the level of your career,
which I once again don't thinkis fair necessarily, but so much

(59:00):
of it is just a visual story,and so I think if you're just
starting out, I don't thinkdoing the branding stuff really
makes a whole lot of sense untilyou have that point of view
Cause we just had an awesome onewith a client of this web
designer that we were justtalking about, where it was only
branding that we did and shekilled it.
Like the color stories wereamazing.

(59:20):
She brought in a typewriter,she had all this.
Really, really cool makeup.
And we just like we're gettingboth kind of like stock images
for her website, as well asphotos of her with those things,
and that shoot would havefallen completely flat without
her props.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
That's awesome.
So, yeah, and I guess you canhold things too off camera, if
you know.
If you have your grandma'snecklace, that makes you feel
centered and comfortable you'regonna be holding it in your
pocket totally and like wardrobetoo.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
We love like.
Uh shot someone last week wholoves magneto, I think that was
the name the superhero yeah, bigmagneto fan, so at the end.
But magneto, magneto, I don'tknow.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I'm so sorry this is showing my lack of superhero
knowledge yeah, um, but yeah butlike his fourth look we were.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I was like what do you feel like is missing from
the three picks so far?
Like what's the thing?
And he's like, well, I don'tlike, I really just love, I love
the superhero and like I lovethe shirt, and so that was like
the fourth look we did, was that?
So it's like you know you couldbring in mind you that's not a
prop, but, like you know, likeyou said, grandma's necklace,
things like that that, like youknow, are so true to you, or
things you love so much, youcould try to find a way to sort
of bring that into your wardrobe.

(01:00:26):
Like you know, if you love thatsuperhero, maybe bring that
shirt, because I think theyactually look they ended up
looking super fun and again,another way he'll stand out.
Maybe, you know, some castingdirector will be like also,
that's my favorite superhero.
And then you know, a connection.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, it's sort of a talking point.
Exactly Human connection.
Right, right, that from mywebsite, where it's like the you
go to get on the website andit's a nice picture of me and
then you scroll down and it'ssort of like haunted mansion
style.
You know how the portraits getweird as they scroll.
It's like then there's like analligator eating me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
I don't know that's okay, I'm loving this see, but
that's the story, like we canmake that happen yeah, it's like
oh, he's weird, he's a muppet.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
And that's me the final one of this flash round.
And then I just have one morequestion I'll let y'all go on
with.
Your day is this is just astatement, and we kind of
covered it retouching photos, Iguess.
Just what's your stance there?
What's your advice?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Light in a tiny nutshell.
Light.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Light for touching.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
We like and have gotten a lot of feedback over
the years that people appreciatethe fact that we are not going
in with like a heavy airbrush.
Because also a lot of times nowwe were just at a party with a
friend who's a casting directorand we were like, oh, we haven't
.
You know, what are you seeingright now in the industry?
Like, what are things that youwish you were seeing in
headshots to sort of just youknow, get some, get some new

(01:01:41):
ideas.
And the first thing she saidwas that she was working on a
show casting people who weresupposed to be playing addicts
um, I think it was particularlylike heroin addicts and so she
was looking for an ensemble ofabout 10 different people to
play these different day players.
And that she had mentioned thatso many people's headshots were
so beautiful and gorgeous andairbrushy that it's kind of hard

(01:02:02):
to tell if that person you knowwhat their skin really looks
like, or if they have thecapacity to look as rugged as
would be needed to play acharacter like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
So that's sort of where we come in with that being
said, that doesn't mean if so,it's so complicated because
there are some people who sellit immediately based off of you
put them in the right outfit andthey're just there, and so you.
We would be inclined to capturethat.
But that's not to say that ifyour everyday is full makeup,

(01:02:37):
eyeliner, whatever it might bethat you then have to do a shot
with no makeup just in case youget called in for something like
this.
That's not necessarily whatwe're advising.
You spend a whole look of yourheadshot session doing.
We do emphasize a makeupjourney though, um, and that
also kind of coincides with theretouching thing that, like a

(01:02:58):
slightly more stripped downnatural look, is a really
important starting place to thenmake your way up.
Um, and I feel like theretouching should only ever help
to serve like we get rid oftemporary things.
That's always the rule.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
A two-week rule is something that I've heard of.
Like, if it's not on your face,yeah.
If that blemish just showed upthis morning, that's gotta go.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Yeah, book a headshot , get a blem Always.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Always that Bring a friend to your session is what
we say.
It's like oh, just put a littlefriend along, Does?

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
everyone cut themselves when they shave in
the bathroom.
I would say it's like probably85 to 90 percent.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Yeah, it's more than half at least.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
And they always come back and they're like I'm so
sorry, I cut myself and you'relike you should start recording
that that's like not likefilming, but like that's like a
psychological study of whenpeople are really nervous
they're, but like that's like apsychological study of when
people are really nervousthey're more likely to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I guess it's not that interesting, but it's probably
because it's super cut, real andwe're just like are waiting by
the door for people to walk inafter they shave just to see if
they cut themselves all together.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yes, sweeney Todd photography.
Well, that's.
That's also helpful Before weroll out to end sort of on an
inspiring note for our listeners.
So this whole thing has beenvery inspiring and empowering.
I'd love to ask you both a gotand a give.
I'm still kind of working outthe verbiage here, I don't even
know if it makes sense, but thefirst thing is what's the best
piece of advice you've got fromsomeone in this industry?

(01:04:21):
And then the second would bethe best piece of advice you
give to people looking toconsistently work in this biz.
So you can each take it one byone.
However you want to answer,we're here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Good question yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Jake go first.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Jake, you go first.
Jake, you can also each takeone.
Yeah, whatever you want to do,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I'm thinking.
I'm thinking Whether or notthis advice has been given to me
in an industry-specific way andit's also not.
This advice has been given tome in an industry specific way
and it's also not really adviceas much of a statement, and I
feel like everyone has heard itat least at some point in their
lives, but I think it's soimportant to remember,

(01:05:02):
regardless of your career isthere.
You cannot possibly makeeveryone happy and it's also not
your responsibility to do so.
And I feel like for headshotstuff, that's been important in
honing in on specificity of whatdo we have to bring to the

(01:05:23):
table.
But in regards to the actingthing, when we're talking about
this very niche thing of someoneis trying to cast an ensemble
of drug-addicted people, it'sokay if you don't have that in
your portfolio.
You cannot possibly stretchyourself so thin as to be able

(01:05:47):
to catch every possible actingjob that you could get.
It's just not something thatone person can do, and that's
where the specificity comes from, like what comes naturally to
you, what feels good for you,what do you like about yourself?
What do you like about the workthat you're trying to do?

(01:06:08):
Um, and just coming at it fromcentering a little bit more of
your happiness, I would say, um,I feel like that's, that's how,
that, that's my get, and give.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Yeah, you got it and then you gave it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Okay, so I guess it's my turn that applies to applies
to life too.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Don't make everyone so happy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, Jake, can you say that to me?

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
one more time.
It's right into my eyes thistime.
I know I'm looking at ourloving artwork that says what
would Dolly do, and Dolly makeseveryone happy, so why can't I?

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Jake.
I don't know what's going on inmy brain.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
You can all just be Dolly.
Okay, I guess it's my turn now.
The thing, the first thing thatcame to mind and I'm trying to
just like figure out the way ofwording this when I was in high
school and, like you know,auditioning for colleges.
To our young listeners outthere, that's obviously a very
stressful time in your life, butI remember something that she

(01:07:05):
would always say to me and, mindyou, you can interpret this
however you would like.
Whatever she would always sayto me and, mind you, you can
interpret this however you wouldlike, whatever spirituality
resonates with you, but shewould always tell me that no one
can open a door that God closes, but no one can close a door
that God opens, which I think isjust a really beautiful
metaphor for the opportunitiesthat are right for you will be

(01:07:27):
the ones that come your way,that are right for you will be
the ones that come your way.
You know, it's like thisindustry is totally wild and I'm
sorry if you didn't know thatyet.
I don't want to spoil it foryou, but it's wild out here and
there are so many thingshappening all the time.
But you know, with every no, asmuch as you can remind yourself

(01:07:49):
, that the right thing for youis somewhere.
You just haven't found it yetor you know those paths haven't
crossed yet.
I think as much as you can sortof like keep that spark alive
is is what's going to help youto be happy in life.
Um, in this industry becauseyou know it can be really tough

(01:08:11):
and hearing no's and stuff likethat can get really grating,
especially as you know time goeson.
We haven't even we somehowmanaged to have this whole
conversation without eventalking about the pandemic or
the strikes, but you know it'slike which is probably the best.
You're welcome everybody, yeah,just to like hit a little nod
there.
It's like you know that timewas and has been, and will

(01:08:32):
potentially be again, likereally tricky to find.
You know solace in the factthat you know things, there is
something that is out there foryou.
So, yeah, as much as you cansort of hold on to that idea
that you know it can happen foryou is, I think, what will keep

(01:08:53):
it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
No, I love that advice I had when I interviewed
Carol Burnett.
She's going to put that here.
Sorry to bring that up.
I blacked out.
She told a story that was alittle similar, in that she
somehow realized when she walkedout of the audition and didn't
get it it wasn't her time, andshe celebrated that it was a
different woman's time.
She was like it's her time,it's not.

(01:09:14):
It's not your time.
Your time will come and ifyou're persistent enough and
sort of hanging in here in thiswild west like you're talking
about, you know, eventuallysomething will come your way.
That'll be for you, and it'shard when there's really nothing
right now, with everythinggoing on in the world, but at
the same time that gives awonderful opportunity, maybe to
try and figure out your point ofview, like we're saying, which
will be helpful with yourheadshots and everything else in

(01:09:36):
your life, because then you canbring yourself to it.
And now I'm turning into aHallmark card, which I probably
already was anyway, but Iappreciate both of you.
I think you're just magic.
You're so talented.
Everyone check out SuburbanPhotography if you're in the New
York City area, and even ifyou're not, book a plane ticket.
It's worth it, I will say.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Come on up and I hope these tips helped you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Thank you for your time today you guys rock.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Thank you Also.
My God, what an amazing hostLike seriously, I'm so excited
to see what else you do withthis podcast, because crushing
it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
I think it's great.
It's great.

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How to Capture Your Best Actor Headshots with Sub/Urban Photography

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