August 12, 2025 • 58 mins
Rejection is part of an actor's journey, but renowned casting director Stephanie Klapper suggests we reframe how we think about it – not as a door slamming in our face, but as one color in the larger palette of our artistic experience. Join host Robert Peterpaul as he chats with the Casting Director about redefining rejection and staying motivated in the entertainment industry.
This episode covers:
• Why rejection isn't personal in a business that is personal
• How merely getting an audition is a win today
• Tangible tips for navigating heartbreak and staying motivated and more
STEPHANIE KLAPPER is a New York based casting director and the founder of Stephanie Klapper Casting (SKC), an independent casting group. Her award-winning work is frequently seen on Broadway, Off-Broadway, regionally, on concert stages, film and television. Select recent credits include: the upcoming new musical, Mythic (Fall 2025 Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park/dir. Kathleen Marshall); The Crooked Cross (Mint Theater Off- Broadway Fall 2025); Garside’s Career (Mint Theater); The Night of the Iguana (Signature Theatre Center, Off-Broadway); among many others.
A graduate of New York’s Music and Art High School (The “Fame School”) and SUNY College at Purchase, she is a frequent guest teacher and lecturer at many colleges and universities around the country, including NYU’s New Studio on Broadway, USC, UNCSA, Syracuse University’s Tepper Semester and ESPA at Primary Stages. She is a mentor with NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts Women’s Mentorship Program, and Fordham High School for the Arts.
Stephanie and her team at SKC are passionate about arts education and working with creative teams to develop new work and expand the scope of established work. Connecting creative, caring people to each other to make extraordinary things happen along with working with emerging artists to help them develop their careers is amongst her greatest joys.
Board Member: Casting Society Cares; Member: Casting Society; Jimmy Awards Preliminary Judge; Advisory Board: Say Gay Plays. www.klappercasting.com
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, this is Stephanie Clapper, 5'1" New York City
native, born and raised inGreenwich Village, new York City
, and ready to roll and how weroll.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Hi actors, it's your friend,robert Peter Paul, standing on
(00:45):
the cliff of what I think issuch a tender topic, it's both
painful and not because it'ssomething we all get used to.
How to handle rejection and notlose your motivation.
The truth is, as artists, we'retold no far more often than yes
(01:05):
, and that can feel crushing attimes.
But here's the thing Rejectionisn't the end of your story.
It's simply a chapter or twoand according to today's guest,
it's not even a great word.
Please welcome sensationalcasting director, my friend
(01:27):
Stephanie Clapper.
Stephanie Clapper is a NewYork-based casting director and
the founder of Stephanie ClapperCasting SKC, an independent
casting group an independentcasting group.
Fun fact, she graduated fromNew York's music and art high
school, the Fame School, andsince then has become one of the
(01:50):
city's most beloved castingdirectors.
Stephanie's award-winning workis frequently seen on Broadway,
off-broadway, regionally, onconcert stages and in film and
television.
She brings her knowledge tovarious colleges and
universities around the country,including NYU, usc, Syracuse
(02:12):
and more, as a guest teacher andlecturer.
Stephanie is also a boardmember of Casting Society Cares,
a Jimmy Awards preliminaryjudge and on the advisory board
of Say Gay Plays.
Her and her team at SKC aremost passionate about arts
education and working withcreative teams to develop new
(02:32):
work and expand the scope ofestablished work.
Visit clappercastingcom formore.
This topic received the mosttraction we've had on social
media.
Yet that's right, friend.
You can submit your cues onsocial media at Casting Networks
and at Rob Peterpaul, or viathe link in our show notes.
(02:55):
Stephanie answered as many ofyour questions as we could get
to.
Thank you to all whocontributed and thank you for
being here.
Here's how we roll withRejection and Staying Motivated,
featuring Stephanie ClapperClaps to that with a K.
Let's roll.
Today we're covering auniversal topic rejection and
(03:23):
staying motivated, a struggle weall have as humans, and it's
kind of twofold right, becausethe majority of our career we're
going to be told no.
So the trick becomes how do wedeal with the no and stay
motivated despite that?
But since rejection can be alittle heavy, I want to ask my
lovely, amazing guest who Iadmire and have just been
(03:45):
basking in the glow of before westarted recording here, miss
Stephanie Clapper.
A silly question to kick thingsoff, if you'll humor me,
stephanie.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Please, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So when you're deep into a long day of audition
sessions or reviewing tapes,what's your go-to snack?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Oh, lately, because it's so warm and it's the summer
watermelon.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's beautiful, that's healthy, that's sweet.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, do you ever?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
bury it in the sand when you go to the beach.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's supposed to keep it cool.
No, I've never done that, but Idon't go to the beach too often
, so good to know.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay.
Well, mentally, we're all goingto go to the beach of rejection
right now.
with Stephanie, who is such anamazing casting director, You're
going to get a lot of thosetoday.
I love it.
Everyone, please take a deepbreath.
Why don't we pretend we're on abeach and we're seeing the
ocean waves roll in?
Because I know this topic canbe a little bit triggering.
But I thought a nice place tostart after my silly Muppet
(04:45):
question would be something thatI'm inspired by from you on
your own podcast that you doSomeone's Thunder.
Everybody tune in.
It's called Someone's Thunder.
You like to start with a quote,so I thought we could do the
same.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I love it.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So I found this one Somehow.
I scoured the Internet and Ijust thought it was simple and
sweet.
Creating any sense of art isrejection, and that is from Miss
Viola Davis.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's a great quote and really interesting.
I think when we get into thisart form, we don't think about
rejection, we think largelyabout creating.
When we get into this art form,we don't think about rejection,
we think largely about creating.
And when we're kids, I thinkthat we're not thinking about
the business side of it yet, butthe joy that it gives us in
(05:36):
doing it, and I think that'sreally why we do it.
So when the rejection comesinto it, it's sort of like a
loss of innocence in a sense,like you've lost the purity of
it because this other color iscoming in.
And I guess the trick for thelifetime of us who choose to do
this forever is how to makepeace with what that means and
look at it as maybe it is justthat it's a color in a larger
(05:58):
palette of what we're creating,and it's just one element in how
we move forward and still doingwhat we want to be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's so beautiful.
I love the way you put that andI wonder too, in learning more
about you and researching you.
I know your father was an actorand sort of did it for the love
of it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
He did dabble in acting but really he was a
musician most of the time.
But he was a lawyer to supportthe family.
But if he could have just beena musician all the time, that
would have been his.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Oh, that was his number one love.
Okay, because I rememberhearing you talk about him doing
a show or something and Ithought that was when I was a
little kid, but yeah, that wasjust he was.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
he pursued many artistic things.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, and to see, I guess, a role model, doing that
for the love of it and sort ofnot getting caught up in the
rejection as much maybe.
I just wondered if thatinformed you, as you now have
been on this path.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think that both my parents were really great about
reminding me that it was only inthat moment rejection.
It wasn't it wasn't the biggerpicture, it was just in the um,
in the context of whatever itwas, but that they also
encouraged me about how to moveforward from rejection, because
I think I mean I'm trying toremember sort of what their
(07:11):
perspective was, but it reallywas that it was just that thing,
but it wasn't.
It didn't qualify me in termsof what I was trying to create.
There's just the landscape ofthere, so, and I think, as a
casting person, taking intoaccount there's so many other
things that come into play withmaking decisions, that I try to
think of it as the opportunitiespeople are given more so than
(07:33):
the rejection that peopleexperience, because I think
everything is about who you meetin that time, but it's not only
about in the time of that piece, but about there too
(08:02):
no-transcript mindset switch,too, that you were talking about
.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
it's just important in life, right, you know?
Going throughout your daytraining your brain to recognize
the beautiful things thathappen, like I just saw a bird
fly by my window, which wasreally sweet, versus looking,
maybe, down at my trash bins andreminding myself I got to take
the trash out.
You know, it's sort of aperspective thing and I'm
curious, stephanie, because weactually talk about it a lot on
here.
But I think a lot of actorsdon't realize that casting
(08:30):
directors also are rejectedfairly often.
It's a very competitiveindustry and I think you I mean
you're so acclaimed andwonderful and have a great
reputation, Everybody loves you,but nobody can get every
project and I just wonder if youcould share maybe the first
time you remember being rejectedand how that felt, to sort of
get us in the mood for thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Wow, I have to think about that because I think that,
especially being an independentcasting person, and being an
actor are very similar, becausewe really do put our hearts and
souls on the line with everyproject and there's always the
question of what makes you theright person to do that job.
And I think so much of it isvisceral that sometimes we could
(09:17):
think we're the best, butthere's so many, as I said
before, there's so many thingsat play.
I'm trying to think of thefirst time I was rejected from a
job because I try not to livein that world.
I don't like to live in thatworld because it just makes me
too sad and then it doesn't makeme sort of value the things
that are working, because I needto really think about that.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah Well, that's a lesson.
That's a lesson in itself.
I think, stephanie and I alsoknow you're someone who just
followed your passion and youbelieved that casting was the
right fit for you.
I know you tried so manydifferent elements of this
business which is also animportant lesson for anybody out
there just to get those, thoseviewpoints.
But I thought it was so coolthat you weren't per se trained
(09:58):
by anyone.
You eventually went to someonefor advice, but you just had
that mission and you didn'treally look back, and that might
be part of it too.
It's like you just knew thiswas yours and you were going to
carve your own path, even if noone had walked that before.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, it was interesting.
I was just going to say I thinkit was more.
I wasn't afraid to give it atry because I didn't know any
better.
So in a sense there were no.
There were no.
It's like there was no criticin me to tell me.
I couldn't do this because Ididn't know what I could or
couldn't do.
I just knew that I had enoughaccumulated knowledge to forge
(10:31):
my own path in it, and if itwasn't going to work then I
guess I wouldn't still be doingit.
But I think that was part ofwhat worked for me at that time.
That it was.
We all got to create whateverour own guardrails were when we
were all coming up.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The group of us.
That came up at that time incasting to where we are now,
such a special group.
I think there needs to be amini series or a documentary on
it after going into the audience.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
It would be very colorful, that's for sure, I
think so let's make it happen.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You know, I'm just picturing a bowling alley now
with the guardrails.
I'm like I need those bumpers.
Come on, let's do it.
But it's very similar.
As an actor, I feel like westart out and we have this dream
and it's playtime.
It's fun, you're on theplayground, you're doing make
believe, and then you get allthese bits of information and
that's something I've wrangledwith.
It's almost like getting backto that childlike innocence
where you're not rememberingwhat this casting person said,
(11:19):
what this director said, whatthis other actor friend said,
and sort of just coming fromyourself.
And that leads into aninteresting part of rejection.
Right, I think it kind ofstarts and ends with
self-rejection and I know alltoo well if I spiral and reject
myself first, I have no shot.
So do you see that?
Do you think actorsunintentionally reject
(11:40):
themselves before they even walkinto the room or start a
self-tape?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So interesting.
Well, I think sometimes whathappens is an actor could get
invited to an audition by acasting person or whomever's
dealing with that particularproject, and they think there is
no way this role is right forme.
And they may turn it downbecause of that.
But what I think is our specialSpidey skill is that sometimes
(12:04):
we see something in actors thateven you don't see in yourself,
and that's what's exciting aboutwhat we do that it's not always
about the obvious but about theother things you have to offer
that maybe you haven't tried yet, but we feel confident are this
is the time to try it.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a quote right there.
It's not always about theobvious.
I like that, not always aboutthe obvious.
You know it's funny.
Having been auditioning for awhile, I feel like I've built up
the callous of rejection.
So thinking about it today islike ripping open the wound, as
you were saying before, and Idon't totally think about it
anymore.
It just becomes a part of thegig.
I wonder how do you approachrejecting someone that maybe
(12:47):
really got close to the gig?
Because usually it's radiosilence, right.
But I assume there's occasionswhere you call up a friend or
you have to sort of deal withthat.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, going back to that word rejection.
I don't like that word, becauseI guess what it means to me is
it does feel a lot like slamminga door in somebody's face, and
I think that it takes away theis.
It does feel a lot likeslamming a door in somebody's
face and I think that it takesaway the acknowledgement that
what an actor does when theycome into an audition room is
really difficult and you'reputting your soul on the line
(13:13):
every time you come into theroom.
So I just feel to me the way Iprocess the word is it's a very
harsh word.
So that's why, although inreality, it's true, not every
actor will get every job they goin for To go back to what I
said earlier, I like to thinkthat it's an opportunity for us
(13:33):
to see what they have to offerand the many ways it could be
put to good use, not just forthat project at that time.
So I know it sounds veryPollyanna-ish to say that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But I truly believe it and I practice it and I know
my colleagues do too.
But I know, when you have yourrent to pay and you're excited
about the job and you thinkyou're the perfect person for it
, and then it doesn't go yourway, how could you feel anything
but tremendously disappointed?
and feel like what's the point?
And I guess the point is thatyou got there when so many
(14:07):
people didn't get in that roomand you met so many people or
one person who maybe you didn'tknow before.
And I have a friend who used tosay, or who continues to say,
that for every no it gets youcloser to a yes.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I like thinking that way, because I think it's true.
You get the no's out of the way, so when the yeses happen, it's
that much sweeter.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I love that.
I've had the great fortune Idon't know why I'm saying this,
because it always sounds so namedropping, but of interviewing
Carol Burnett once and she saidI know I did black out Stephanie
.
I totally blacked out.
She said I just listened to hertalk the whole time.
I barely had any questions.
I was like just go.
And she actually was theopposite.
I had so many questions but Ijust wanted to listen to her and
she said she'll never forgetone of her first auditions,
(14:52):
which was almost exactly that.
You know she felt that sort ofrejection, but what let her get
through it was remembering thather friend got the job, even
though it wasn't really herquote unquote friend.
And she just said to herselfthis isn't my time, this is
their time.
You know, this is their timeand then one day it will be my
time.
I wonder, from then till now, Iguess Overall, do you think the
(15:15):
industry has gotten better orworse at helping actors deal
with the sense of rejection orsort of being prepared for that?
I mean, I feel like people dotalk about it a bit more now.
I think there's moretransparency now.
And.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I think that there's more dialogue between actors and
casting people.
Now, I think it's not.
I just think that there's amore open communication, or I
like to think there's more opencommunication.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So I think it's less mysterious.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
What about social media?
Because I feel like, in thesense that it's kind of twofold
right, because you can eitherimmediately see sometimes
someone else booked it and youjust sent your tape in, maybe
yesterday, and then you seesomeone posting about it, or you
can see people auditioning forit in real time, even if they're
just posting their slatebloopers or something you sort
of know their type, and thatthey're probably auditioning for
that.
So in this world where now it'smore in our face, I don't know,
(16:15):
I feel like there's somethingto be said for that also being a
little bit hard.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I think yeah, I was gonna say I that makes me
uncomfortable, because then it'shard for you to be in your head
for what you're doing, becauseyou're so busy seeing what other
people are doing and that to meis a little bit of a form of
self-sabotage, so I don't seethat as being a productive use
of time or of protectingyourself from disappointment.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And comparison.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't know what is it.
Comparison is the thief of joy,my nanny says.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's really good.
I think that's a good phrase touse too.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah Well, looking at other phrases, you know some
rejection myths I think we canbust here today.
Oh, let's hear.
It's so hard not to take thingspersonally, but can you just
shed some light for ourlisteners?
It kind of runs the gamut.
We have people just startingout, people you know very well
into the career that we've heardfrom.
So, in general, why isrejection almost never personal?
(17:12):
I know this is a big question,but I would love to hear your
thoughts.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, it's so hard in a business.
That's so personal.
Yet it's a business.
And I think that's the hardpart, because when you stop
caring, like what does that meanabout your emotional
accessibility for doing the workyou do?
So I think it's how do you makepeace with that feeling and
make it not take over theexperience, but it's an aspect
(17:39):
of it.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Making peace.
I think that anything you'relooking forward to or hoping for
and it doesn't happen in theway you hope it happens unless
it changes and becomes somethingeven better than you thought
would happen of course it'sgoing to be disappointment there
, but I think that the trick ishow do you acknowledge the
(18:03):
disappointment and then find away to move on from it to create
something else.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know we love tangible things on here, and I
once heard an actor say thattheir tangible way of processing
even preemptively rejection isjust to rip the sides up and
recycle them when they're done.
And just the act of physicallyripping it up and throwing them
away it became a ritual of themnot thinking about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I think that's great, Except if they get called back.
That's a bummer.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, I know I have every time I recycle, literally
anytime I print something outand recycle it.
That's when it's like booking avacation, it's like that's when
you know you're going to getthe call back in.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
So I think, always book vacations for sure.
Yeah, that's true, as long asthey're refundable.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
This is sponsored by JetBlue.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Indeed, it's interesting that you know we're
talking about rejection, becauseit really is a fact of our
profession.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I wonder how many professions out there really is
just a part of the day-to-day.
I don't think as many as withwhat we do, and I think that's
what makes us all kind ofspecial in our way, because
we've almost put ourselves inthe line of it and yet we're
still doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, I think you're so right.
I mean, I think anybodycreative in this industry is a
special magical human and I knowthat in any line of work I mean
every human there's smallrejections every day, right Even
just asking someone to hang outand they can't.
That's sort of a small quoteunquote rejection.
But I look at friends who go infor quote unquote muggle job
interviews and it's like they'reso nervous and they're going on
(19:32):
these interviews and I'm like,wow, I get a couple of quote
unquote interviews a week or wehave a couple a day sometimes
and we're just not.
You know, I think, because itbecomes very ingrained in us.
You know we're not.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's like second nature in some ways, but yet we
still get excited as though it'sthe first time and I think
that's what I love is is thatyou could still get excited
about it and still be hopeful.
And it's like Vegas maybeyou'll hit the jackpot, you know
.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, speaking of the jackpot, I love when you talk
about this being similar toVegas and I'm going to pull down
a slot machine right now andask you okay, can you share a
story?
And if you can't, I'm sure thishas happened a lot.
If you can't think of one onthe spot, it's OK.
I have a back question.
I would love an example of atime an actor came in, was
absolutely brilliant, but justnot quite a right fit for the
(20:21):
role.
I also imagine, having been areader for different casting
offices, that I learned so muchthat was like an education
itself.
Casting offices that I learnedso much that was like an
education itself.
I would see these people thatyou know maybe want a Tony the
season before, come in and justbe good, but totally not the
tone, not right for the project.
Have you had those instances,too, where even maybe a small
(20:42):
note has changed things?
Anything come to mind?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
just surrounding that big things, anything come to
mind just surrounding that biglife.
Well, I'm thinking of recently.
We were casting a verydifficult play where the two
actors in it were supposed toresemble each other enough that
they could be we could believethem as siblings, maybe even
twins, and it was so much morethan just how terrific the actor
(21:06):
was.
It was also could we believethat relationship with each
other, and that was hard, andthat was.
It of course had to do withtheir acting ability, but it
also had to do with the pairingof them and how they could work
together.
So that was so out of theirhands.
And so, in the moment of thematerial, and trusting the other
person and how they worktogether, I guess, what about
(21:29):
casting someone over the yearsafter they didn't get a role?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Can you give an example of that sort of path, of
how maybe you had to oh, it'sso fun.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I love when that happens.
Yeah, no, and I think that'sjust really about they get close
, they get close, they get close, they get frustrated, they get
frustrated, they get frustrated.
But they know that my team andI really love them and believe
in them, and they know that it'sjust about like it wasn't the
moment, but we're both workingtogether to make it the moment.
(21:59):
And then it happens and thenit's great because it seems like
you never had the strugglebefore or the rejection before,
like it was just waiting forthis moment to happen.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's like childbirth.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's a good time to wait.
I don't know if it's quite aspainful, oh, okay, yeah, I mean
I can't really speak to that.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I guess I can only channel it from a.
Meisner technique no.
What's a commonmisinterpretation actors have
when they don't hear back fromcasting?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm sure you get this question a lot.
Well, but I think more oftenthan not they don't hear back
from casting because we've hadto move on and they've had to
move on.
And sometimes an agent willcall bad feedback, but often not
, and I think it's justeverybody has sort of like that
has ended and now we have to goon to whatever the next thing is
(22:48):
.
But I think for the actor to goback to what we were saying
before.
It's that sense of theexperience hasn't been completed
.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, completing the circle.
Well, sometimes you hear aboutpeople that get to complete it
in this way of they're rejected,like I recently spoke with
Erica Henningsen, who wasrejected from Mean Girls on
Broadway and then later gotcalled back in because they
moved some puzzle pieces aroundand then rejection sort of freed
her.
She just she cared, but shedidn't care so much that she
(23:19):
really needed it, I guess, andthat allowed her to book the job
.
I mean, I don't want to putwords in her mouth.
She's an awesome, talented souland I wonder if I mean I'm sure
you must have seen that before.
It's sort of like.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Well, I think you make peace and become a little
more relaxed, because you'relike well, I didn't get the
first time, who knows whatthey're looking for now, so they
call me back Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I'm going to do a cartwheel and enter the room.
No, that's too much, I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I think it.
I would suspect it is morefreeing because it's not the
same pressure, maybe, but thefact that they got invited back
also means they were likedenough to still want to see them
again.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
True.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And just getting called in is a win.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Especially in these times, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, these times are very strange, very strange for
all of us and, as an artist,even more so, because we're all
so sensitive to whatever's goingon out there.
It's not a great time.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, and in the TV film landscape, I know things
are even slower right now.
Oh, I know, I mean in theBroadway world.
I think it all trickles downbecause now we have these huge
stars on Broadway, which maybeis good for the box office, but
maybe the everyday actor doesn'tnecessarily get the shot, I
know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, I've been thinking a lot about that
because it's so disappointing tolook at like it is about box
office and opportunities, butit's also like wait, you guys
could be doing these featurefilms Give us our lane Like let
us have our part of the pie.
So I see that type ofdisappointment.
(24:50):
I don't see it as rejection asmuch as tremendous
disappointment.
But also it's the reshifting,yet again, which seems to happen
so often in our professionThings keep shifting.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, which keeps it exciting.
Oh, yes, it's exciting and werecognize how hard this can be.
And now I'm trying not to usethe word rejection, I like
extremely disappointed, sort oflike you just said.
But we can even just call it ano and I wonder do you have any
advice or tangible tips on howto process a no?
Like you know, you didn't getit and maybe your heart was set
(25:25):
on it.
What are some things it could?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
be.
Well, I think that it's okay tofeel bad and I think that
sometimes we're like, no, Ishouldn't feel bad, but I think
that it's okay, like it's okayto be disappointed and it's okay
to feel like that really sucks,but then it's what you do after
that, or in or sort of inconjunction with that, is it
like I'm really hooked on FourthWing right now?
(25:50):
It's a really good book that hasnothing to do with what we do,
and it's really great to take mymind off all the other things
going on and I think thatsometimes productive distraction
is a really good thing too.
Or take yourself out to see areally good movie or just
something that like just be kindto yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, you know, I love that.
And productive distraction Wow,that's a great phrase that you
strung together there.
I like that too, and you'realso like probably the 10th
person that's mentioned fourthwing, so I probably need to read
this.
It's like fantasy, right?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I'm a big fantasy buff, so I feel like I would
love it, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I luckily had the second one all ready to jump
into and I've already started it.
I finished the first one onMonday and here we are into the
second.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh my gosh, I love it Okay, I'll give you one House
on the Cerulean Sea, if youhaven't read.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Okay, he'll send it to me after, because I'm not
writing it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Okay, I'll send it to you.
Yeah, I'll probably thing thatcan be really vital is community
right and I feel like you are acommunity maker as a person and
professionally, just havingseen you in person and the way
you treat people, but then alsoyou quite literally cast people
and build casts and bring themtogether.
(27:02):
What are your thoughts on folksI guess A finding their
community, on folks I guess Afinding their community and then
B, also having thevulnerability to be honest about
quote unquote rejection,because I feel like we all hear
the people saying, oh, I gotclose to this, I got a callback
for this.
But people, it can get like alittle competitive, even between
(27:22):
friends.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Totally, totally Well .
That's like I remember when Iwas just starting out and I was
socializing with a lot of actorsand we'd all be at parties
together.
And the party was all aboutwhat people were going in for
and what they were doing, and itwas less about just having a
conversation with each other.
Glad you're talking about thissubject matter today because I
(27:50):
think it is such a universalexperience and I think sometimes
rejection can come.
We could feel embarrassed byrejection.
And I think that's the reasonwhy, if you feel in a safe space
with people who you trust, thattalking about it you get to
realize just how universal it is, and then you do share
experiences and then, throughsharing those experiences, you
(28:12):
make discoveries, because maybeyou both went in for the same
role and you didn't know youwent in for the same role and
maybe you had a similarexperience.
Maybe it was an amazing room,but you just felt off your game.
Or maybe it wasn't an amazingroom, maybe it felt like
something wasn't right there,and then you realize it wasn't
about you, but there were otherthings going on, and sometimes
(28:34):
it's just about confirmingsomething, or sometimes it's
about a discovery, or sometimesit's just about well, it just
was a bad day.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, I think that's so helpful.
I mean, one of my favoritethings to do is when I get
something.
And I've also learned, likewhat you said before if
something comes to you thatmaybe you don't think you're
right for, just do it, becausesomeone sees something or you
know it's a chance to build arelationship.
But I also love to.
Then, even if I do it and feellike I'm not going to get it, I
(29:02):
love to pass it along to peoplethat I think it's perfect for.
And I think, if we're allpretending that we're the right
person and we just didn't get itbecause you know so-and-so,
knew so-and-so and it was theirson and whatever you know,
you'll also cut off theopportunity to then help the
people around you.
Like, if we have these honestconversations, sometimes we can,
you know, help, uplift a friend, and that's what is.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Totally Well.
It's so funny because I wasjust thinking yesterday I was in
the elevator of where I workand I was heading out for the
night and I see that this guycomes in and he looks at me with
a huge smile and he wants tosay something and I'm like, do
we know each other?
And he goes well, I auditionedfor you a really long time ago
and I bombed and I'm like, oh, Idon't remember that he goes.
(29:48):
Well, I don't, I'm not an actoranymore, but you know you were.
He was saying very nice things,but it was the point of the
story is I don't remember thathe bombed.
I knew I knew him, but hehadn't been in my room in over
20 years and now he was doingsomething he really, really
loved and and he had gone inrecently to audition for
something and he realized thatit wasn't acting, wasn't really
(30:12):
for him anymore, but it was a.
It was kind of a funnyconversation to have in terms of
he remembered this moment whereit didn't go a particular way
yeah but that wasn't myconnection with him at all, and
sometimes I think, the personwho's experienced experiencing
it has a much more difficulttime with it than maybe the rest
of us deter them from bringingyou in again.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
They understand that you maybe have X amount of
auditions in a day, if you'relucky, that you have a day job
whatever, and that maybe youpsyched yourself out, whatever
it is.
I think there's a lot offorgiveness in this industry
that we forget about, like we'reall empathetic.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Totally, and that's a nice change, I think too.
I think that's come over timetoo.
The humanity of what we all dois, and I think, bringing us all
together in that way.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Everybody has bad days.
Everybody has circumstancesthat sometimes make us not at
the top of our game, but thatdoesn't define who we are.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I am going to sing Miley Cyrus to you right now.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
No, I want to sing Hannah Montana.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those
days.
Do you remember Hannah Montana?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh, very well.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Maybe that's where I got it from, by osmosis.
I love that.
Well, we're going to get thebest of both worlds right now as
we dive further into community.
You know, while we're in thecommunity, subject of the
community, I would love to sharesome questions from our casting
networks.
folks we asked for some cues foryou and we got a ton actually.
And some were sort of just likefor some cues for you and we
got a ton actually.
And some were sort of just likewhy am I not being cast?
(31:54):
It wasn't at you, it was justin general, but I weeded through
and I found some of the generalones.
So if you hear your question,it was probably asked multiple
times and I'm sorry if I don'tread your name, but there were a
lot and I thank you forsubmitting them.
So one we got is from at Jake,underscore S 30.
How do you know if a role isright for you to audition for?
And this is sort of we sort oftouched on this, but what are
(32:16):
your thoughts for Jake?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Hi Jake, I think that , well, part of it is if it
excites you and if you go Ithink I know my way into this I
think that's a great way or ifit scares you a little because
it excites you, but you've neverdone something like that, but
you want to give it a try.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I love that.
What about as far as thebreakdown and reading it?
If you're not exactly like thebreakdown, should you let that
deter you?
Well, if you've been invited in.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
there's a reason that the breakdown only tells you so
much, and also during thecourse of casting, that
breakdown can become theoreticaland become just the beginning
of a bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, and look at how many times a gender's changed
or whatever's changed about arole, that's a great reminder.
So we have another questionfrom Lindsay Waller.
Waller, what up, whatdoes—sorry, I need to calm down.
It's because I'm getting so hotin here my AC.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I need AC.
Help me, I'm melting.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
What does just not what we're looking for really
mean?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oof, that hurts.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Lindsay, yes.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I'm sorry, Lindsay, that hurts.
It's whatever theirimaginations have created.
It's whatever theirimaginations have created that
when you came into the roomdidn't fit what their
imaginations were yearning for,and that feels so personal.
And yet it's really about thepicture that they have in their
minds.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yes, aka, don't translate it to you.
Suck, give yourself a break andtry.
I know it's.
I personally I know it's sohard.
We have another question andthen I'll probably sprinkle a
few more in as we go, but wehave one and I hope I say this
right from at Jacob RobichouxOkay, probably didn't say it
right.
Is it good to take smallerbackground roles or gigs between
(34:08):
not working and auditioning?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I think any work is work that if it feeds your soul,
in your bank account and youfeel good doing it yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, I love that and that'll help you stay motivated
.
That's something we're going toget into in a moment.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And you never know if you're going to get upgraded.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
True, that happened to me actually.
I did background work and Iended up with one line on an ABC
pilot, and you know what that'ssometimes how you can get your
entry into the union.
It's a good point, it reallydoes happen.
So the word I saw over and overagain when we asked for
questions on rejection wasfeedback, and you touched on
this a bit.
Every actor wants feedback.
(34:49):
We know that it's not alwayspossible casting you beautiful
people maybe have three peoplein an office sometimes, and it's
just not possible with hundredsand hundreds of actors.
When the people want to knowwhy they're being rejected too,
which I obviously totallyunderstand do you get?
I mean, does it hurt to ask forfeedback?
What sort of?
What are your thoughts onfeedback Like?
Will you give it?
If you want to give it, should?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
we just wait.
It's so hard to say, becausethen you can open yourself up to
getting a lot of inquiries andwe just don't have the ability
to do that.
I think the feedback is whenyou keep getting invited back
into an office.
The feedback is we really thinkyou're pretty special, but we
just haven't found the rightproject for you to be hired for
yet.
I think that's the feedback.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah.
So look at the action, notnecessarily the words, which I
think helps in life too, becauseif you have someone you're
hanging out with and maybethey're saying things that are
like weird, like they're there,they're showing up for you.
Anyway, I'm getting personal.
A helpful tool for me isreframing rejection, and we've
sort of touched on this here.
I love the phrase.
My nanny always says this toorejection is protection.
(35:55):
It wasn't meant for me, but forsomeone else, so we can
celebrate the person it's meantfor.
How do you suggest actorsreframe rejection if they're
looking to have a sustainablecareer, because the rejection is
never going to end?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, no, I think that's true.
I think it's.
How do you turn it into anotheropportunity?
So, okay, this job didn't workout for me, but what else is out
there right now that I'm reallyinterested in?
How can I find out aboutgetting that other appointment?
Or how can I read that play forsomething that's coming up soon
.
So I'm really well prepared soI could show up to that open
(36:34):
call, if there's an open callfor something.
So I think it's always lookingat the next thing ahead of you
instead of looking behind you.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh, I love that because then you might trip.
Yes, what are your thoughts onactors following up with you
after not booking something?
I know we just went down thefeedback, I think a note is
always lovely.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I think a note always keeps one fresh.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
You know, and I know you can't answer every email,
but I know that you're very goodat it as well, so that's a nice
little tidbit right there.
We talked about feedback.
That's a similar thing.
All right, let's dive into themotivation pool.
You know I'm getting hot inhere.
I need to take a little dip.
You see so many actors walkingthrough your doors.
What traits stand out in thosewho stay resilient, sort of over
(37:22):
the long haul?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
You know, the ones who come in still excited about
doing the work and have donetheir homework and are really
well prepared and know what theproject is they're going in for.
I know it sounds silly, butsometimes they come in for the
job but they don't know thedates or when it's happening, or
they take for granted certainthings like oh, I have a wedding
(37:47):
and you have an understudy,right.
Well, guess what?
We don't have an understudy andno, you can't go to that
wedding if you're going to bookthe job.
So, but also, I think, just likereally coming in well prepared,
I had somebody recently come infor a job and they had a fair
amount of time to prepare for itand they read their sides, they
prepared their sides and theythey read on either side of
(38:08):
their sides the piece, but theydidn't read the entire play and
that was really disappointingbecause they had the time to do
it, meaning we gave them alength of time in which they can
and I know everybody's busy andhas to support themselves, but
it was really disappointing thatthey hadn't done the full
(38:29):
amount of or you know, at leastdon't tell me you haven't read
it oh yeah, no, don't say it anddon't tell my client, because
you know we get blamed for it,even if they did have the
material so you know.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So what a gift to get it like you don't always even
get the full script or the playor whatever it is.
So if you do get it, I mean atleast at least read the scenes
your character's in, I guess, ifyou don't have time to really
read the full thing, but it'ssuch a gift to get the full
story.
And I've heard you also say,which I think is such great
advice be prepared in the sensewith your business brain.
(39:02):
So look up the theater, look upthe producers, look up the
network that it's on and see.
You know you can get a lot ofinformation from that, as far as
tone and your values might notalign with that.
So see if you even want to doit right.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Totally, absolutely no.
I think that's really important.
Hence another reason to readthe entire piece.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
But I think that's a great point.
Going back to what?
If you don't think it'ssomething that's right for you
and that's where I think beingtrue to yourself and your values
is very important and if it'snot, if it doesn't align with
where you are and you don't feelcomfortable, it's okay, that's
really okay.
I'd rather you not go in for itthen.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm sure it's subjective, but are you okay
with actors passing on thingsoverall?
Is it like if they pass oneverything, then maybe that
raises a red flag?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, but there are times when people will pass.
It's not the right opportunityor they don't feel it's the
right fit for them.
I get it.
That happens at times.
Or the salary doesn't alignwith where they need to be right
now in their lives.
That happens.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Well, what else happens?
Is we get more questions fromour wonderful cast and networks
community and I stuck one inhere about motivation just
because I wanted to get intothis area first, something we
got a couple times.
This is from our friend,officially biener schnitzel, at
biener schnitzel, which is agreat, honestly great username,
might take it wonder how do youstay motivated when things are
(40:25):
really slow?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Well, first of all, I try to remind myself that it's
not the end of my career.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, no catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
No, but I think sometimes we're all you know.
When it's slow, we all sort ofwonder what the heck am I doing?
I know so.
Then something always seems tocome around, and it could be a
reading or a great conversation,or I go take myself out to a
movie or a play and that gets megoing again.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I love that Watch what comes into the void.
I think being bored also hasgotten very overrated.
I think people don't.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Who has time to be bored?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's what I mean.
Nobody wants to be boredanymore, and I feel like when I
was a little kid, being bored iswhat made me get dressed up and
go outside and put on a show.
Being bored is what made me runinto a friend's backyard, like
I think when we're bored now, wepick up our phones.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I think you're right, I think you're right.
There's no quiet, there's never, any quiet to just be with your
brain.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, and that's when things I don't know you could
write a play.
I think there's a lot of thingsyou could do for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah, that's great yeah.
I love going to libraries.
I've got to tell you.
I really have been trying to goto different libraries in the
city just to sort of discoverplaces I haven't been to before.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Do you have a favorite library?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Well, I love Lincoln Center.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Oh yes, the Lincoln.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Center Library for the Performing Arts is great.
But then there's a great oldlibrary I'm forgetting the name
of it down in the East Village.
It's on, I think, third Avenue,between St Mark's and 9th, and
it's just a beautiful, beautifulold library.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Okay, I'm going to have to check that out and I
will also tell you some goodlibraries when we go offline, oh
, and then the 42nd Street.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
One is extraordinary, the big one, oh yes, oh my gosh
, yes, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yes, I will.
I love that.
I'm such a library book nerdtoo.
We realized we're veryflammable people when we moved,
because all we have are booksand candles.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
So yeah, oh, that's good, I think so.
Just don't light a fire.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Okay, so something, thank you.
Something I'm curious about arethe actors who are maybe
resilient.
They feel like they, you know,stay motivated for the most part
and they're lucky to get a lotof auditions, but they're just
not in sort of like the alwaysbooking realm quite yet and
they're feeling a littlefatigued.
What's your advice on stayingin there?
Because, like we said, justgetting called in is a win, but
(42:46):
if you're constantly not booking, there's also that voice in the
back of your head.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I think go take a class.
Maybe it's an improv class,Maybe you just need to get back
into scene study and freshen upa bit.
You know, find a great teacherwho inspires you and expand your
community too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, I love that Because you can also just learn
from friends reading showstogether.
Totally Well speaking of notwinning the job but maybe
(43:35):
winning the room?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
is there a green flag you look for in actors to stay
on your radar?
You know when you're you're notnecessarily rejecting them.
I know we're going to cancelthe word rejection here today,
but you're not hiring for themfor that job.
So what kind of keeps someoneon your radar?
I guess, besides talent,besides the obvious, I think we
had a reader not that long agowho was just so smart and on her
game that we started bringingher in for things.
We hadn't known her before andour client had introduced us to
her and she was just so good andthen started booking pretty
consistently with us, which isgreat.
But I think that was a casewhere it was really great to get
(43:56):
to know somebody well and see,just get a sense of what they
shine doing and their ease atbeing in situations where they
had a pivot, and that was areally great way to get to know
them and I'd say that's happeneda few times.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh, I love that.
Do you have any other practicaltips for staying motivated?
I know you said you'll changethe energy by going to a library
or going to the movies, whichthat's such wonderful advice,
but I wonder if there's anythingelse before we sort of close
out the motivational end of thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Gee, I have to think about it because it changes all
the time.
It could be.
Is this for me or for otherpeople?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
I think it can come from you, and then it will be
you.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Sorry it's not time, no, please.
But it's interesting because Ithink, in terms of staying
motivated, I don't it could be.
I just feel like it's like youchange lanes for a moment.
Maybe it's not.
It's not preparing for anaudition day in and day out,
it's not being surrounded by bydoing that thing, but it it is
(45:03):
through like a little bit of ofoccupying your brain with
something else to then get backon track.
I and I know I've said that butI really think that sometimes
helps with motivation too,because if you're constantly,
you know, climbing up themountain, you get tired after a
while and you need to takebreaks along the way, and I
think that our profession canfeel a lot like a task where we
(45:27):
go up, up, up, and then we goback, and then how do we get
further up and then we go back.
So I think that you need totake breaks and get recharged.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, that's a great visual.
I like that a lot, because youcan't give from an empty cup.
Yeah, and I think too there'ssomething to be said for my
shout out to my manager.
She once said go get on thetrain that's pulling into the
station and I have ADHD.
So every day, sort of if I like, if I in the moment, and like,
(45:57):
oh, I said I would rehearse mylines at 4pm, but at 4pm it
comes and I'm like I really justwant to go for a walk right now
.
Sort of it's okay to followwhat you want and because
sometimes you know you couldfake it till you make it, but it
might take an extra hour tothen get in the vibe of actually
rehearsing or you can do whatyou want to do and then, sort of
like I don't know, let theother things come in when they
(46:19):
come in, unless you're on a timecrunch, obviously.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Well then, yeah, then you have to be a little more
disciplined.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Well, speaking of disciplined you, here's another
transition.
You're so disciplined becauseyou are distinguished and at
such a wonderful point in yourcareer.
But I wonder, looking back now,with all you've accomplished,
what does success mean to you?
We've defined sort of quote,unquote, rejection, but what do
you think success really meansin the arts?
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Oh geez, I think if somebody's still doing it, then
that's successful and it couldbe.
It could be as a profession orit could be, just because of the
love of it, I think.
I think success is whateveranyone creates it to be, and not
what they not measuringthemselves against anyone else
but themselves.
You're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I've done a lot of thinking about this.
Yeah, no, I love that, I lovethat so much.
Yeah, no, I love that, I lovethat so much.
And I'm going to read even morefun little calendar ripoff
(47:25):
quotes from you with ourbeautiful game segment Casting
Keywords.
I think I might have're verysensitive all around to the word
rejection because I think,especially with younger talent,
it is triggering.
But that's how we built thecallus, so let's do this.
Sorry, that sounded callous.
I'll say a word or a phrasefrom our work so something
commonly found in casting andyou just respond with the first
(47:50):
piece of tangible advice thatpops into your head.
Okay, so sort of like wordassociation, but more advice
driven.
Okay, we're going to start outwith what auditions start with
Slate.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Oh, so bring yourself to the slate.
You know, at least in my world,it's the best thing I'm going
to get about seeing you.
I can't see you in the room.
If you're slating, it meansyou're taping from somewhere
else, so I'd love to have aspark of who you are.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Oh, I love that and already I know I'm like this is
a flash round, but everybodyknows I always go on tangents.
I meant to ask you before Ipinned this sort of in my mind
when you had said we weretalking about everybody just
coming in and sort of leadingwith their resume versus who
they are.
I'm guessing that when an actorcomes into the room, I mean
maybe they could do this on alive Zoom audition with you as
(48:42):
well.
I hope they wouldn't maybe doit in a slate, but you'd
probably rather see them as ahuman versus them saying oh yeah
, I just got back from tour.
I just you know, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Absolutely, totally Lead with your humanity.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Lead with humanity, and the same is said with script
analysis.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh boy, yeah, well, that goes back to what we were
saying about preparation,preparation.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
So do it.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Definitely do it.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Overall self-tape tip .
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Don't make yourself crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
I love that.
I'm going to take that with meas I go, because you could just
keep taping and taping.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
It's never going to be perfect, but you know,
chances are the earlier versionsof your tape will be better
than the later ones.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
More sort of like real and have that energy that's
not tired.
We talk about that a lot inhere too, right, everybody?
We're going to max at five.
We're going to aim for fivetakes.
Don't let yourself go into likethe 20s or 30s.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Okay, I don't want that for you.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Making a choice.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Tell me more about what you mean by that.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I feel like we hear make a choice a lot as a
direction, and I've asked a lotof casting folks this and the
answers are similar but I thinkeveryone doesn't realize.
Maybe they have a differentmeaning of that.
So I would love to know yourmeaning.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I think how I interpret, make a choice is when
you come into the room, beempowered with going back to
script interpretation.
Be empowered that yourinterpretation is the right way
for you to come into the room.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I really love that.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
So that's your choice .
Speaker 2 (50:23):
And see that's actually different from all the
other ones too, which isbeautiful.
All of them are similar butdifferent, so take that with you
, everybody.
Audition attire.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
What does that mean?
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
In the sense of attire your wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Oh, attire, I'm thinking attire.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Roll in on one tire.
Sorry, this is how we rollAudition attire.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Don't upstage yourself.
Wear clothes that maybe supportwhat you're going in for, but
don't make it to the point thatI'm only focused on that.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, you should wear the clothes, not the clothes
Exactly.
The clothes shouldn't wear youExactly.
I'll land that play Directorsessions.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Oh well, those are important and bring your A game.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I like that Improv in auditions.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Oh, be selective, Don't.
If you're a playwright, I thinkyou have to be very careful
with improv in sessions andrewriting things if it's not
invited.
So, I think if you've beengiven text to do, do the text.
If there's something whereyou're invited to improv within
the context of it, have a goodtime.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
I love that.
Okay, and the last one I'll sayhere is not psyching yourself
out, so not getting in your ownway.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Oh gosh, there's a wonderful teacher author named
Sharon Salzberg who says thatwhen the critic shows up in you.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
She, I think, named hers Edith, that she?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
invites her out to tea and leaves her at the cafe
to get her tea work, and I feellike like with um, not you know,
like not sucking yourself out,or sucking yourself out like
just when that critic comes intoyour head.
Just tell it it could, it couldstep aside for a little bit so
you could get your work done.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I love that.
Acknowledge it and then don'tput any more energy in it.
They can deal with the barista,that's so great exactly, thank
you.
Okay, you win the game.
I don't know what you win, youjust win for being great and I
know I got to let you go and Iwould really just appreciate it
if we could end our timetogether by you sharing a gotten
and a given.
So we end every episode bygetting our guests gotten, which
(52:44):
is the best piece of advicethey've gotten in this industry
that they feel like they tookwith them, and the given is the
best piece they now have to give.
So if we could start with yourgotten, stephanie, that would be
wonderful.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
I think it was from my dad, actually.
Who who reminded me?
Well, it goes back to what wewere saying about, you know,
sort of measuring yourself upagainst other people.
And why does this person havethis opportunity, why they have
that opportunity, why didn't Iget this or why don't I have
that?
And it was just, everythinghappens in its own time and he
(53:17):
just really reminded me to justkeep doing what I was doing and
I'd find my way.
And I think that that's, that'syou know what has been very
helpful.
Yeah, and I guess that's alsoadvice that I would pass on,
which is so easy to compareyourself to others and wonder
why things aren't happening theway you want them to happen or
(53:37):
envision them happening, and andyou, we all have our own paths
and it all happens the way it'sgoing to happen to the younger
audience members, but Imentioned that you do so much
wonderful work with the Jimmysfor our young artists,
specifically our high schoolmusical theater performers.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Is there a piece of advice you feel like you give in
those teachings that you wouldlike to share with listeners,
people maybe?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
just starting out.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
I guess listeners that might be that age, yeah,
well, I think that it's.
There seems to be this sensethat time is going so fast and
you have to get wherever thatplace is to get to be super
famous, and I think there's alot of road to travel before you
get to that point.
And, and I just think, have agreat time learning and and and
(54:29):
and having great adventures, anddon't worry so much.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I love that.
I'm going to take that with mejust in life, because if you're
chasing fame, you're going toalways be chasing.
Let's be real, you know that isnot guaranteed, so sort of just
do what you love.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, and I think that the trap of chasing fame is
when is enough enough and whenhave you really gotten there?
And I think the answer is younever really feel like you've
had enough or gotten there.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Well, I feel like I got there with you.
I got so much wonderful advice.
Stephanie, just to you know,bookend this with another cheesy
transition.
I feel so grateful that we haveyou in this industry as a
leader and someone we can lookup to, because not only are you
extremely knowledgeable and openand vulnerable with sharing all
that knowledge, but you're justsuch a kind-hearted soul.
So thank you for being that wayand being yourself.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Robert, I feel the same about you and I'm really
glad you're in my life.
Thank you, oh, you're so sweetThanks for this opportunity.
Thank you,
Hi, this is Stephanie Clapper, 5'1" New York City
native, born and raised inGreenwich Village, new York City
, and ready to roll and how weroll.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Hi actors, it's your friend,robert Peter Paul, standing on
(00:45):
the cliff of what I think issuch a tender topic, it's both
painful and not because it'ssomething we all get used to.
How to handle rejection and notlose your motivation.
The truth is, as artists, we'retold no far more often than yes
(01:05):
, and that can feel crushing attimes.
But here's the thing Rejectionisn't the end of your story.
It's simply a chapter or twoand according to today's guest,
it's not even a great word.
Please welcome sensationalcasting director, my friend
(01:27):
Stephanie Clapper.
Stephanie Clapper is a NewYork-based casting director and
the founder of Stephanie ClapperCasting SKC, an independent
casting group an independentcasting group.
Fun fact, she graduated fromNew York's music and art high
school, the Fame School, andsince then has become one of the
(01:50):
city's most beloved castingdirectors.
Stephanie's award-winning workis frequently seen on Broadway,
off-broadway, regionally, onconcert stages and in film and
television.
She brings her knowledge tovarious colleges and
universities around the country,including NYU, usc, Syracuse
(02:12):
and more, as a guest teacher andlecturer.
Stephanie is also a boardmember of Casting Society Cares,
a Jimmy Awards preliminaryjudge and on the advisory board
of Say Gay Plays.
Her and her team at SKC aremost passionate about arts
education and working withcreative teams to develop new
(02:32):
work and expand the scope ofestablished work.
Visit clappercastingcom formore.
This topic received the mosttraction we've had on social
media.
Yet that's right, friend.
You can submit your cues onsocial media at Casting Networks
and at Rob Peterpaul, or viathe link in our show notes.
(02:55):
Stephanie answered as many ofyour questions as we could get
to.
Thank you to all whocontributed and thank you for
being here.
Here's how we roll withRejection and Staying Motivated,
featuring Stephanie ClapperClaps to that with a K.
Let's roll.
Today we're covering auniversal topic rejection and
(03:23):
staying motivated, a struggle weall have as humans, and it's
kind of twofold right, becausethe majority of our career we're
going to be told no.
So the trick becomes how do wedeal with the no and stay
motivated despite that?
But since rejection can be alittle heavy, I want to ask my
lovely, amazing guest who Iadmire and have just been
(03:45):
basking in the glow of before westarted recording here, miss
Stephanie Clapper.
A silly question to kick thingsoff, if you'll humor me,
stephanie.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Please, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So when you're deep into a long day of audition
sessions or reviewing tapes,what's your go-to snack?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Oh, lately, because it's so warm and it's the summer
watermelon.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's beautiful, that's healthy, that's sweet.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, do you ever?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
bury it in the sand when you go to the beach.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's supposed to keep it cool.
No, I've never done that, but Idon't go to the beach too often
, so good to know.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay.
Well, mentally, we're all goingto go to the beach of rejection
right now.
with Stephanie, who is such anamazing casting director, You're
going to get a lot of thosetoday.
I love it.
Everyone, please take a deepbreath.
Why don't we pretend we're on abeach and we're seeing the
ocean waves roll in?
Because I know this topic canbe a little bit triggering.
But I thought a nice place tostart after my silly Muppet
(04:45):
question would be something thatI'm inspired by from you on
your own podcast that you doSomeone's Thunder.
Everybody tune in.
It's called Someone's Thunder.
You like to start with a quote,so I thought we could do the
same.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I love it.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So I found this one Somehow.
I scoured the Internet and Ijust thought it was simple and
sweet.
Creating any sense of art isrejection, and that is from Miss
Viola Davis.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's a great quote and really interesting.
I think when we get into thisart form, we don't think about
rejection, we think largelyabout creating.
When we get into this art form,we don't think about rejection,
we think largely about creating.
And when we're kids, I thinkthat we're not thinking about
the business side of it yet, butthe joy that it gives us in
(05:36):
doing it, and I think that'sreally why we do it.
So when the rejection comesinto it, it's sort of like a
loss of innocence in a sense,like you've lost the purity of
it because this other color iscoming in.
And I guess the trick for thelifetime of us who choose to do
this forever is how to makepeace with what that means and
look at it as maybe it is justthat it's a color in a larger
(05:58):
palette of what we're creating,and it's just one element in how
we move forward and still doingwhat we want to be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's so beautiful.
I love the way you put that andI wonder too, in learning more
about you and researching you.
I know your father was an actorand sort of did it for the love
of it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
He did dabble in acting but really he was a
musician most of the time.
But he was a lawyer to supportthe family.
But if he could have just beena musician all the time, that
would have been his.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Oh, that was his number one love.
Okay, because I rememberhearing you talk about him doing
a show or something and Ithought that was when I was a
little kid, but yeah, that wasjust he was.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
he pursued many artistic things.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, and to see, I guess, a role model, doing that
for the love of it and sort ofnot getting caught up in the
rejection as much maybe.
I just wondered if thatinformed you, as you now have
been on this path.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think that both my parents were really great about
reminding me that it was only inthat moment rejection.
It wasn't it wasn't the biggerpicture, it was just in the um,
in the context of whatever itwas, but that they also
encouraged me about how to moveforward from rejection, because
I think I mean I'm trying toremember sort of what their
(07:11):
perspective was, but it reallywas that it was just that thing,
but it wasn't.
It didn't qualify me in termsof what I was trying to create.
There's just the landscape ofthere, so, and I think, as a
casting person, taking intoaccount there's so many other
things that come into play withmaking decisions, that I try to
think of it as the opportunitiespeople are given more so than
(07:33):
the rejection that peopleexperience, because I think
everything is about who you meetin that time, but it's not only
about in the time of that piece, but about there too
(08:02):
no-transcript mindset switch,too, that you were talking about
.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
it's just important in life, right, you know?
Going throughout your daytraining your brain to recognize
the beautiful things thathappen, like I just saw a bird
fly by my window, which wasreally sweet, versus looking,
maybe, down at my trash bins andreminding myself I got to take
the trash out.
You know, it's sort of aperspective thing and I'm
curious, stephanie, because weactually talk about it a lot on
here.
But I think a lot of actorsdon't realize that casting
(08:30):
directors also are rejectedfairly often.
It's a very competitiveindustry and I think you I mean
you're so acclaimed andwonderful and have a great
reputation, Everybody loves you,but nobody can get every
project and I just wonder if youcould share maybe the first
time you remember being rejectedand how that felt, to sort of
get us in the mood for thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Wow, I have to think about that because I think that,
especially being an independentcasting person, and being an
actor are very similar, becausewe really do put our hearts and
souls on the line with everyproject and there's always the
question of what makes you theright person to do that job.
And I think so much of it isvisceral that sometimes we could
(09:17):
think we're the best, butthere's so many, as I said
before, there's so many thingsat play.
I'm trying to think of thefirst time I was rejected from a
job because I try not to livein that world.
I don't like to live in thatworld because it just makes me
too sad and then it doesn't makeme sort of value the things
that are working, because I needto really think about that.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah Well, that's a lesson.
That's a lesson in itself.
I think, stephanie and I alsoknow you're someone who just
followed your passion and youbelieved that casting was the
right fit for you.
I know you tried so manydifferent elements of this
business which is also animportant lesson for anybody out
there just to get those, thoseviewpoints.
But I thought it was so coolthat you weren't per se trained
(09:58):
by anyone.
You eventually went to someonefor advice, but you just had
that mission and you didn'treally look back, and that might
be part of it too.
It's like you just knew thiswas yours and you were going to
carve your own path, even if noone had walked that before.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, it was interesting.
I was just going to say I thinkit was more.
I wasn't afraid to give it atry because I didn't know any
better.
So in a sense there were no.
There were no.
It's like there was no criticin me to tell me.
I couldn't do this because Ididn't know what I could or
couldn't do.
I just knew that I had enoughaccumulated knowledge to forge
(10:31):
my own path in it, and if itwasn't going to work then I
guess I wouldn't still be doingit.
But I think that was part ofwhat worked for me at that time.
That it was.
We all got to create whateverour own guardrails were when we
were all coming up.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The group of us.
That came up at that time incasting to where we are now,
such a special group.
I think there needs to be amini series or a documentary on
it after going into the audience.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
It would be very colorful, that's for sure, I
think so let's make it happen.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You know, I'm just picturing a bowling alley now
with the guardrails.
I'm like I need those bumpers.
Come on, let's do it.
But it's very similar.
As an actor, I feel like westart out and we have this dream
and it's playtime.
It's fun, you're on theplayground, you're doing make
believe, and then you get allthese bits of information and
that's something I've wrangledwith.
It's almost like getting backto that childlike innocence
where you're not rememberingwhat this casting person said,
(11:19):
what this director said, whatthis other actor friend said,
and sort of just coming fromyourself.
And that leads into aninteresting part of rejection.
Right, I think it kind ofstarts and ends with
self-rejection and I know alltoo well if I spiral and reject
myself first, I have no shot.
So do you see that?
Do you think actorsunintentionally reject
(11:40):
themselves before they even walkinto the room or start a
self-tape?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So interesting.
Well, I think sometimes whathappens is an actor could get
invited to an audition by acasting person or whomever's
dealing with that particularproject, and they think there is
no way this role is right forme.
And they may turn it downbecause of that.
But what I think is our specialSpidey skill is that sometimes
(12:04):
we see something in actors thateven you don't see in yourself,
and that's what's exciting aboutwhat we do that it's not always
about the obvious but about theother things you have to offer
that maybe you haven't tried yet, but we feel confident are this
is the time to try it.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a quote right there.
It's not always about theobvious.
I like that, not always aboutthe obvious.
You know it's funny.
Having been auditioning for awhile, I feel like I've built up
the callous of rejection.
So thinking about it today islike ripping open the wound, as
you were saying before, and Idon't totally think about it
anymore.
It just becomes a part of thegig.
I wonder how do you approachrejecting someone that maybe
(12:47):
really got close to the gig?
Because usually it's radiosilence, right.
But I assume there's occasionswhere you call up a friend or
you have to sort of deal withthat.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, going back to that word rejection.
I don't like that word, becauseI guess what it means to me is
it does feel a lot like slamminga door in somebody's face, and
I think that it takes away theis.
It does feel a lot likeslamming a door in somebody's
face and I think that it takesaway the acknowledgement that
what an actor does when theycome into an audition room is
really difficult and you'reputting your soul on the line
(13:13):
every time you come into theroom.
So I just feel to me the way Iprocess the word is it's a very
harsh word.
So that's why, although inreality, it's true, not every
actor will get every job they goin for To go back to what I
said earlier, I like to thinkthat it's an opportunity for us
(13:33):
to see what they have to offerand the many ways it could be
put to good use, not just forthat project at that time.
So I know it sounds veryPollyanna-ish to say that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But I truly believe it and I practice it and I know
my colleagues do too.
But I know, when you have yourrent to pay and you're excited
about the job and you thinkyou're the perfect person for it
, and then it doesn't go yourway, how could you feel anything
but tremendously disappointed?
and feel like what's the point?
And I guess the point is thatyou got there when so many
(14:07):
people didn't get in that roomand you met so many people or
one person who maybe you didn'tknow before.
And I have a friend who used tosay, or who continues to say,
that for every no it gets youcloser to a yes.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I like thinking that way, because I think it's true.
You get the no's out of the way, so when the yeses happen, it's
that much sweeter.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I love that.
I've had the great fortune Idon't know why I'm saying this,
because it always sounds so namedropping, but of interviewing
Carol Burnett once and she saidI know I did black out Stephanie
.
I totally blacked out.
She said I just listened to hertalk the whole time.
I barely had any questions.
I was like just go.
And she actually was theopposite.
I had so many questions but Ijust wanted to listen to her and
she said she'll never forgetone of her first auditions,
(14:52):
which was almost exactly that.
You know she felt that sort ofrejection, but what let her get
through it was remembering thather friend got the job, even
though it wasn't really herquote unquote friend.
And she just said to herselfthis isn't my time, this is
their time.
You know, this is their timeand then one day it will be my
time.
I wonder, from then till now, Iguess Overall, do you think the
(15:15):
industry has gotten better orworse at helping actors deal
with the sense of rejection orsort of being prepared for that?
I mean, I feel like people dotalk about it a bit more now.
I think there's moretransparency now.
And.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I think that there's more dialogue between actors and
casting people.
Now, I think it's not.
I just think that there's amore open communication, or I
like to think there's more opencommunication.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So I think it's less mysterious.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
What about social media?
Because I feel like, in thesense that it's kind of twofold
right, because you can eitherimmediately see sometimes
someone else booked it and youjust sent your tape in, maybe
yesterday, and then you seesomeone posting about it, or you
can see people auditioning forit in real time, even if they're
just posting their slatebloopers or something you sort
of know their type, and thatthey're probably auditioning for
that.
So in this world where now it'smore in our face, I don't know,
(16:15):
I feel like there's somethingto be said for that also being a
little bit hard.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I think yeah, I was gonna say I that makes me
uncomfortable, because then it'shard for you to be in your head
for what you're doing, becauseyou're so busy seeing what other
people are doing and that to meis a little bit of a form of
self-sabotage, so I don't seethat as being a productive use
of time or of protectingyourself from disappointment.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And comparison.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't know what is it.
Comparison is the thief of joy,my nanny says.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's really good.
I think that's a good phrase touse too.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah Well, looking at other phrases, you know some
rejection myths I think we canbust here today.
Oh, let's hear.
It's so hard not to take thingspersonally, but can you just
shed some light for ourlisteners?
It kind of runs the gamut.
We have people just startingout, people you know very well
into the career that we've heardfrom.
So, in general, why isrejection almost never personal?
(17:12):
I know this is a big question,but I would love to hear your
thoughts.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, it's so hard in a business.
That's so personal.
Yet it's a business.
And I think that's the hardpart, because when you stop
caring, like what does that meanabout your emotional
accessibility for doing the workyou do?
So I think it's how do you makepeace with that feeling and
make it not take over theexperience, but it's an aspect
(17:39):
of it.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Making peace.
I think that anything you'relooking forward to or hoping for
and it doesn't happen in theway you hope it happens unless
it changes and becomes somethingeven better than you thought
would happen of course it'sgoing to be disappointment there
, but I think that the trick ishow do you acknowledge the
(18:03):
disappointment and then find away to move on from it to create
something else.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know we love tangible things on here, and I
once heard an actor say thattheir tangible way of processing
even preemptively rejection isjust to rip the sides up and
recycle them when they're done.
And just the act of physicallyripping it up and throwing them
away it became a ritual of themnot thinking about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I think that's great, Except if they get called back.
That's a bummer.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, I know I have every time I recycle, literally
anytime I print something outand recycle it.
That's when it's like booking avacation, it's like that's when
you know you're going to getthe call back in.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
So I think, always book vacations for sure.
Yeah, that's true, as long asthey're refundable.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
This is sponsored by JetBlue.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Indeed, it's interesting that you know we're
talking about rejection, becauseit really is a fact of our
profession.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I wonder how many professions out there really is
just a part of the day-to-day.
I don't think as many as withwhat we do, and I think that's
what makes us all kind ofspecial in our way, because
we've almost put ourselves inthe line of it and yet we're
still doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, I think you're so right.
I mean, I think anybodycreative in this industry is a
special magical human and I knowthat in any line of work I mean
every human there's smallrejections every day, right Even
just asking someone to hang outand they can't.
That's sort of a small quoteunquote rejection.
But I look at friends who go infor quote unquote muggle job
interviews and it's like they'reso nervous and they're going on
(19:32):
these interviews and I'm like,wow, I get a couple of quote
unquote interviews a week or wehave a couple a day sometimes
and we're just not.
You know, I think, because itbecomes very ingrained in us.
You know we're not.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's like second nature in some ways, but yet we
still get excited as though it'sthe first time and I think
that's what I love is is thatyou could still get excited
about it and still be hopeful.
And it's like Vegas maybeyou'll hit the jackpot, you know
.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, speaking of the jackpot, I love when you talk
about this being similar toVegas and I'm going to pull down
a slot machine right now andask you okay, can you share a
story?
And if you can't, I'm sure thishas happened a lot.
If you can't think of one onthe spot, it's OK.
I have a back question.
I would love an example of atime an actor came in, was
absolutely brilliant, but justnot quite a right fit for the
(20:21):
role.
I also imagine, having been areader for different casting
offices, that I learned so muchthat was like an education
itself.
Casting offices that I learnedso much that was like an
education itself.
I would see these people thatyou know maybe want a Tony the
season before, come in and justbe good, but totally not the
tone, not right for the project.
Have you had those instances,too, where even maybe a small
(20:42):
note has changed things?
Anything come to mind?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
just surrounding that big things, anything come to
mind just surrounding that biglife.
Well, I'm thinking of recently.
We were casting a verydifficult play where the two
actors in it were supposed toresemble each other enough that
they could be we could believethem as siblings, maybe even
twins, and it was so much morethan just how terrific the actor
(21:06):
was.
It was also could we believethat relationship with each
other, and that was hard, andthat was.
It of course had to do withtheir acting ability, but it
also had to do with the pairingof them and how they could work
together.
So that was so out of theirhands.
And so, in the moment of thematerial, and trusting the other
person and how they worktogether, I guess, what about
(21:29):
casting someone over the yearsafter they didn't get a role?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Can you give an example of that sort of path, of
how maybe you had to oh, it'sso fun.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I love when that happens.
Yeah, no, and I think that'sjust really about they get close
, they get close, they get close, they get frustrated, they get
frustrated, they get frustrated.
But they know that my team andI really love them and believe
in them, and they know that it'sjust about like it wasn't the
moment, but we're both workingtogether to make it the moment.
(21:59):
And then it happens and thenit's great because it seems like
you never had the strugglebefore or the rejection before,
like it was just waiting forthis moment to happen.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's like childbirth.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's a good time to wait.
I don't know if it's quite aspainful, oh, okay, yeah, I mean
I can't really speak to that.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I guess I can only channel it from a.
Meisner technique no.
What's a commonmisinterpretation actors have
when they don't hear back fromcasting?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm sure you get this question a lot.
Well, but I think more oftenthan not they don't hear back
from casting because we've hadto move on and they've had to
move on.
And sometimes an agent willcall bad feedback, but often not
, and I think it's justeverybody has sort of like that
has ended and now we have to goon to whatever the next thing is
(22:48):
.
But I think for the actor to goback to what we were saying
before.
It's that sense of theexperience hasn't been completed
.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, completing the circle.
Well, sometimes you hear aboutpeople that get to complete it
in this way of they're rejected,like I recently spoke with
Erica Henningsen, who wasrejected from Mean Girls on
Broadway and then later gotcalled back in because they
moved some puzzle pieces aroundand then rejection sort of freed
her.
She just she cared, but shedidn't care so much that she
(23:19):
really needed it, I guess, andthat allowed her to book the job
.
I mean, I don't want to putwords in her mouth.
She's an awesome, talented souland I wonder if I mean I'm sure
you must have seen that before.
It's sort of like.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Well, I think you make peace and become a little
more relaxed, because you'relike well, I didn't get the
first time, who knows whatthey're looking for now, so they
call me back Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I'm going to do a cartwheel and enter the room.
No, that's too much, I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I think it.
I would suspect it is morefreeing because it's not the
same pressure, maybe, but thefact that they got invited back
also means they were likedenough to still want to see them
again.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
True.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And just getting called in is a win.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Especially in these times, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, these times are very strange, very strange for
all of us and, as an artist,even more so, because we're all
so sensitive to whatever's goingon out there.
It's not a great time.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, and in the TV film landscape, I know things
are even slower right now.
Oh, I know, I mean in theBroadway world.
I think it all trickles downbecause now we have these huge
stars on Broadway, which maybeis good for the box office, but
maybe the everyday actor doesn'tnecessarily get the shot, I
know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, I've been thinking a lot about that
because it's so disappointing tolook at like it is about box
office and opportunities, butit's also like wait, you guys
could be doing these featurefilms Give us our lane Like let
us have our part of the pie.
So I see that type ofdisappointment.
(24:50):
I don't see it as rejection asmuch as tremendous
disappointment.
But also it's the reshifting,yet again, which seems to happen
so often in our professionThings keep shifting.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, which keeps it exciting.
Oh, yes, it's exciting and werecognize how hard this can be.
And now I'm trying not to usethe word rejection, I like
extremely disappointed, sort oflike you just said.
But we can even just call it ano and I wonder do you have any
advice or tangible tips on howto process a no?
Like you know, you didn't getit and maybe your heart was set
(25:25):
on it.
What are some things it could?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
be.
Well, I think that it's okay tofeel bad and I think that
sometimes we're like, no, Ishouldn't feel bad, but I think
that it's okay, like it's okayto be disappointed and it's okay
to feel like that really sucks,but then it's what you do after
that, or in or sort of inconjunction with that, is it
like I'm really hooked on FourthWing right now?
(25:50):
It's a really good book that hasnothing to do with what we do,
and it's really great to take mymind off all the other things
going on and I think thatsometimes productive distraction
is a really good thing too.
Or take yourself out to see areally good movie or just
something that like just be kindto yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, you know, I love that.
And productive distraction Wow,that's a great phrase that you
strung together there.
I like that too, and you'realso like probably the 10th
person that's mentioned fourthwing, so I probably need to read
this.
It's like fantasy, right?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I'm a big fantasy buff, so I feel like I would
love it, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I luckily had the second one all ready to jump
into and I've already started it.
I finished the first one onMonday and here we are into the
second.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh my gosh, I love it Okay, I'll give you one House
on the Cerulean Sea, if youhaven't read.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Okay, he'll send it to me after, because I'm not
writing it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Okay, I'll send it to you.
Yeah, I'll probably thing thatcan be really vital is community
right and I feel like you are acommunity maker as a person and
professionally, just havingseen you in person and the way
you treat people, but then alsoyou quite literally cast people
and build casts and bring themtogether.
(27:02):
What are your thoughts on folksI guess A finding their
community, on folks I guess Afinding their community and then
B, also having thevulnerability to be honest about
quote unquote rejection,because I feel like we all hear
the people saying, oh, I gotclose to this, I got a callback
for this.
But people, it can get like alittle competitive, even between
(27:22):
friends.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Totally, totally Well .
That's like I remember when Iwas just starting out and I was
socializing with a lot of actorsand we'd all be at parties
together.
And the party was all aboutwhat people were going in for
and what they were doing, and itwas less about just having a
conversation with each other.
Glad you're talking about thissubject matter today because I
(27:50):
think it is such a universalexperience and I think sometimes
rejection can come.
We could feel embarrassed byrejection.
And I think that's the reasonwhy, if you feel in a safe space
with people who you trust, thattalking about it you get to
realize just how universal it is, and then you do share
experiences and then, throughsharing those experiences, you
(28:12):
make discoveries, because maybeyou both went in for the same
role and you didn't know youwent in for the same role and
maybe you had a similarexperience.
Maybe it was an amazing room,but you just felt off your game.
Or maybe it wasn't an amazingroom, maybe it felt like
something wasn't right there,and then you realize it wasn't
about you, but there were otherthings going on, and sometimes
(28:34):
it's just about confirmingsomething, or sometimes it's
about a discovery, or sometimesit's just about well, it just
was a bad day.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, I think that's so helpful.
I mean, one of my favoritethings to do is when I get
something.
And I've also learned, likewhat you said before if
something comes to you thatmaybe you don't think you're
right for, just do it, becausesomeone sees something or you
know it's a chance to build arelationship.
But I also love to.
Then, even if I do it and feellike I'm not going to get it, I
(29:02):
love to pass it along to peoplethat I think it's perfect for.
And I think, if we're allpretending that we're the right
person and we just didn't get itbecause you know so-and-so,
knew so-and-so and it was theirson and whatever you know,
you'll also cut off theopportunity to then help the
people around you.
Like, if we have these honestconversations, sometimes we can,
you know, help, uplift a friend, and that's what is.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Totally Well.
It's so funny because I wasjust thinking yesterday I was in
the elevator of where I workand I was heading out for the
night and I see that this guycomes in and he looks at me with
a huge smile and he wants tosay something and I'm like, do
we know each other?
And he goes well, I auditionedfor you a really long time ago
and I bombed and I'm like, oh, Idon't remember that he goes.
(29:48):
Well, I don't, I'm not an actoranymore, but you know you were.
He was saying very nice things,but it was the point of the
story is I don't remember thathe bombed.
I knew I knew him, but hehadn't been in my room in over
20 years and now he was doingsomething he really, really
loved and and he had gone inrecently to audition for
something and he realized thatit wasn't acting, wasn't really
(30:12):
for him anymore, but it was a.
It was kind of a funnyconversation to have in terms of
he remembered this moment whereit didn't go a particular way
yeah but that wasn't myconnection with him at all, and
sometimes I think, the personwho's experienced experiencing
it has a much more difficulttime with it than maybe the rest
of us deter them from bringingyou in again.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
They understand that you maybe have X amount of
auditions in a day, if you'relucky, that you have a day job
whatever, and that maybe youpsyched yourself out, whatever
it is.
I think there's a lot offorgiveness in this industry
that we forget about, like we'reall empathetic.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Totally, and that's a nice change, I think too.
I think that's come over timetoo.
The humanity of what we all dois, and I think, bringing us all
together in that way.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Everybody has bad days.
Everybody has circumstancesthat sometimes make us not at
the top of our game, but thatdoesn't define who we are.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I am going to sing Miley Cyrus to you right now.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
No, I want to sing Hannah Montana.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those
days.
Do you remember Hannah Montana?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh, very well.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Maybe that's where I got it from, by osmosis.
I love that.
Well, we're going to get thebest of both worlds right now as
we dive further into community.
You know, while we're in thecommunity, subject of the
community, I would love to sharesome questions from our casting
networks.
folks we asked for some cues foryou and we got a ton actually.
And some were sort of just likefor some cues for you and we
got a ton actually.
And some were sort of just likewhy am I not being cast?
(31:54):
It wasn't at you, it was justin general, but I weeded through
and I found some of the generalones.
So if you hear your question,it was probably asked multiple
times and I'm sorry if I don'tread your name, but there were a
lot and I thank you forsubmitting them.
So one we got is from at Jake,underscore S 30.
How do you know if a role isright for you to audition for?
And this is sort of we sort oftouched on this, but what are
(32:16):
your thoughts for Jake?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Hi Jake, I think that , well, part of it is if it
excites you and if you go Ithink I know my way into this I
think that's a great way or ifit scares you a little because
it excites you, but you've neverdone something like that, but
you want to give it a try.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I love that.
What about as far as thebreakdown and reading it?
If you're not exactly like thebreakdown, should you let that
deter you?
Well, if you've been invited in.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
there's a reason that the breakdown only tells you so
much, and also during thecourse of casting, that
breakdown can become theoreticaland become just the beginning
of a bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, and look at how many times a gender's changed
or whatever's changed about arole, that's a great reminder.
So we have another questionfrom Lindsay Waller.
Waller, what up, whatdoes—sorry, I need to calm down.
It's because I'm getting so hotin here my AC.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I need AC.
Help me, I'm melting.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
What does just not what we're looking for really
mean?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oof, that hurts.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Lindsay, yes.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I'm sorry, Lindsay, that hurts.
It's whatever theirimaginations have created.
It's whatever theirimaginations have created that
when you came into the roomdidn't fit what their
imaginations were yearning for,and that feels so personal.
And yet it's really about thepicture that they have in their
minds.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yes, aka, don't translate it to you.
Suck, give yourself a break andtry.
I know it's.
I personally I know it's sohard.
We have another question andthen I'll probably sprinkle a
few more in as we go, but wehave one and I hope I say this
right from at Jacob RobichouxOkay, probably didn't say it
right.
Is it good to take smallerbackground roles or gigs between
(34:08):
not working and auditioning?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I think any work is work that if it feeds your soul,
in your bank account and youfeel good doing it yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, I love that and that'll help you stay motivated
.
That's something we're going toget into in a moment.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And you never know if you're going to get upgraded.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
True, that happened to me actually.
I did background work and Iended up with one line on an ABC
pilot, and you know what that'ssometimes how you can get your
entry into the union.
It's a good point, it reallydoes happen.
So the word I saw over and overagain when we asked for
questions on rejection wasfeedback, and you touched on
this a bit.
Every actor wants feedback.
(34:49):
We know that it's not alwayspossible casting you beautiful
people maybe have three peoplein an office sometimes, and it's
just not possible with hundredsand hundreds of actors.
When the people want to knowwhy they're being rejected too,
which I obviously totallyunderstand do you get?
I mean, does it hurt to ask forfeedback?
What sort of?
What are your thoughts onfeedback Like?
Will you give it?
If you want to give it, should?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
we just wait.
It's so hard to say, becausethen you can open yourself up to
getting a lot of inquiries andwe just don't have the ability
to do that.
I think the feedback is whenyou keep getting invited back
into an office.
The feedback is we really thinkyou're pretty special, but we
just haven't found the rightproject for you to be hired for
yet.
I think that's the feedback.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah.
So look at the action, notnecessarily the words, which I
think helps in life too, becauseif you have someone you're
hanging out with and maybethey're saying things that are
like weird, like they're there,they're showing up for you.
Anyway, I'm getting personal.
A helpful tool for me isreframing rejection, and we've
sort of touched on this here.
I love the phrase.
My nanny always says this toorejection is protection.
(35:55):
It wasn't meant for me, but forsomeone else, so we can
celebrate the person it's meantfor.
How do you suggest actorsreframe rejection if they're
looking to have a sustainablecareer, because the rejection is
never going to end?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, no, I think that's true.
I think it's.
How do you turn it into anotheropportunity?
So, okay, this job didn't workout for me, but what else is out
there right now that I'm reallyinterested in?
How can I find out aboutgetting that other appointment?
Or how can I read that play forsomething that's coming up soon
.
So I'm really well prepared soI could show up to that open
(36:34):
call, if there's an open callfor something.
So I think it's always lookingat the next thing ahead of you
instead of looking behind you.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh, I love that because then you might trip.
Yes, what are your thoughts onactors following up with you
after not booking something?
I know we just went down thefeedback, I think a note is
always lovely.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I think a note always keeps one fresh.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
You know, and I know you can't answer every email,
but I know that you're very goodat it as well, so that's a nice
little tidbit right there.
We talked about feedback.
That's a similar thing.
All right, let's dive into themotivation pool.
You know I'm getting hot inhere.
I need to take a little dip.
You see so many actors walkingthrough your doors.
What traits stand out in thosewho stay resilient, sort of over
(37:22):
the long haul?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
You know, the ones who come in still excited about
doing the work and have donetheir homework and are really
well prepared and know what theproject is they're going in for.
I know it sounds silly, butsometimes they come in for the
job but they don't know thedates or when it's happening, or
they take for granted certainthings like oh, I have a wedding
(37:47):
and you have an understudy,right.
Well, guess what?
We don't have an understudy andno, you can't go to that
wedding if you're going to bookthe job.
So, but also, I think, just likereally coming in well prepared,
I had somebody recently come infor a job and they had a fair
amount of time to prepare for itand they read their sides, they
prepared their sides and theythey read on either side of
(38:08):
their sides the piece, but theydidn't read the entire play and
that was really disappointingbecause they had the time to do
it, meaning we gave them alength of time in which they can
and I know everybody's busy andhas to support themselves, but
it was really disappointing thatthey hadn't done the full
(38:29):
amount of or you know, at leastdon't tell me you haven't read
it oh yeah, no, don't say it anddon't tell my client, because
you know we get blamed for it,even if they did have the
material so you know.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So what a gift to get it like you don't always even
get the full script or the playor whatever it is.
So if you do get it, I mean atleast at least read the scenes
your character's in, I guess, ifyou don't have time to really
read the full thing, but it'ssuch a gift to get the full
story.
And I've heard you also say,which I think is such great
advice be prepared in the sensewith your business brain.
(39:02):
So look up the theater, look upthe producers, look up the
network that it's on and see.
You know you can get a lot ofinformation from that, as far as
tone and your values might notalign with that.
So see if you even want to doit right.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Totally, absolutely no.
I think that's really important.
Hence another reason to readthe entire piece.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
But I think that's a great point.
Going back to what?
If you don't think it'ssomething that's right for you
and that's where I think beingtrue to yourself and your values
is very important and if it'snot, if it doesn't align with
where you are and you don't feelcomfortable, it's okay, that's
really okay.
I'd rather you not go in for itthen.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm sure it's subjective, but are you okay
with actors passing on thingsoverall?
Is it like if they pass oneverything, then maybe that
raises a red flag?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, but there are times when people will pass.
It's not the right opportunityor they don't feel it's the
right fit for them.
I get it.
That happens at times.
Or the salary doesn't alignwith where they need to be right
now in their lives.
That happens.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Well, what else happens?
Is we get more questions fromour wonderful cast and networks
community and I stuck one inhere about motivation just
because I wanted to get intothis area first, something we
got a couple times.
This is from our friend,officially biener schnitzel, at
biener schnitzel, which is agreat, honestly great username,
might take it wonder how do youstay motivated when things are
(40:25):
really slow?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Well, first of all, I try to remind myself that it's
not the end of my career.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, no catastrophizing.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
No, but I think sometimes we're all you know.
When it's slow, we all sort ofwonder what the heck am I doing?
I know so.
Then something always seems tocome around, and it could be a
reading or a great conversation,or I go take myself out to a
movie or a play and that gets megoing again.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I love that Watch what comes into the void.
I think being bored also hasgotten very overrated.
I think people don't.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Who has time to be bored?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's what I mean.
Nobody wants to be boredanymore, and I feel like when I
was a little kid, being bored iswhat made me get dressed up and
go outside and put on a show.
Being bored is what made me runinto a friend's backyard, like
I think when we're bored now, wepick up our phones.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I think you're right, I think you're right.
There's no quiet, there's never, any quiet to just be with your
brain.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, and that's when things I don't know you could
write a play.
I think there's a lot of thingsyou could do for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah, that's great yeah.
I love going to libraries.
I've got to tell you.
I really have been trying to goto different libraries in the
city just to sort of discoverplaces I haven't been to before.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Do you have a favorite library?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Well, I love Lincoln Center.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Oh yes, the Lincoln.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Center Library for the Performing Arts is great.
But then there's a great oldlibrary I'm forgetting the name
of it down in the East Village.
It's on, I think, third Avenue,between St Mark's and 9th, and
it's just a beautiful, beautifulold library.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Okay, I'm going to have to check that out and I
will also tell you some goodlibraries when we go offline, oh
, and then the 42nd Street.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
One is extraordinary, the big one, oh yes, oh my gosh
, yes, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yes, I will.
I love that.
I'm such a library book nerdtoo.
We realized we're veryflammable people when we moved,
because all we have are booksand candles.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
So yeah, oh, that's good, I think so.
Just don't light a fire.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Okay, so something, thank you.
Something I'm curious about arethe actors who are maybe
resilient.
They feel like they, you know,stay motivated for the most part
and they're lucky to get a lotof auditions, but they're just
not in sort of like the alwaysbooking realm quite yet and
they're feeling a littlefatigued.
What's your advice on stayingin there?
Because, like we said, justgetting called in is a win, but
(42:46):
if you're constantly not booking, there's also that voice in the
back of your head.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I think go take a class.
Maybe it's an improv class,Maybe you just need to get back
into scene study and freshen upa bit.
You know, find a great teacherwho inspires you and expand your
community too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, I love that Because you can also just learn
from friends reading showstogether.
Totally Well speaking of notwinning the job but maybe
(43:35):
winning the room?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
is there a green flag you look for in actors to stay
on your radar?
You know when you're you're notnecessarily rejecting them.
I know we're going to cancelthe word rejection here today,
but you're not hiring for themfor that job.
So what kind of keeps someoneon your radar?
I guess, besides talent,besides the obvious, I think we
had a reader not that long agowho was just so smart and on her
game that we started bringingher in for things.
We hadn't known her before andour client had introduced us to
her and she was just so good andthen started booking pretty
consistently with us, which isgreat.
But I think that was a casewhere it was really great to get
(43:56):
to know somebody well and see,just get a sense of what they
shine doing and their ease atbeing in situations where they
had a pivot, and that was areally great way to get to know
them and I'd say that's happeneda few times.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh, I love that.
Do you have any other practicaltips for staying motivated?
I know you said you'll changethe energy by going to a library
or going to the movies, whichthat's such wonderful advice,
but I wonder if there's anythingelse before we sort of close
out the motivational end of thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Gee, I have to think about it because it changes all
the time.
It could be.
Is this for me or for otherpeople?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
I think it can come from you, and then it will be
you.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Sorry it's not time, no, please.
But it's interesting because Ithink, in terms of staying
motivated, I don't it could be.
I just feel like it's like youchange lanes for a moment.
Maybe it's not.
It's not preparing for anaudition day in and day out,
it's not being surrounded by bydoing that thing, but it it is
(45:03):
through like a little bit of ofoccupying your brain with
something else to then get backon track.
I and I know I've said that butI really think that sometimes
helps with motivation too,because if you're constantly,
you know, climbing up themountain, you get tired after a
while and you need to takebreaks along the way, and I
think that our profession canfeel a lot like a task where we
(45:27):
go up, up, up, and then we goback, and then how do we get
further up and then we go back.
So I think that you need totake breaks and get recharged.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, that's a great visual.
I like that a lot, because youcan't give from an empty cup.
Yeah, and I think too there'ssomething to be said for my
shout out to my manager.
She once said go get on thetrain that's pulling into the
station and I have ADHD.
So every day, sort of if I like, if I in the moment, and like,
(45:57):
oh, I said I would rehearse mylines at 4pm, but at 4pm it
comes and I'm like I really justwant to go for a walk right now
.
Sort of it's okay to followwhat you want and because
sometimes you know you couldfake it till you make it, but it
might take an extra hour tothen get in the vibe of actually
rehearsing or you can do whatyou want to do and then, sort of
like I don't know, let theother things come in when they
(46:19):
come in, unless you're on a timecrunch, obviously.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Well then, yeah, then you have to be a little more
disciplined.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Well, speaking of disciplined you, here's another
transition.
You're so disciplined becauseyou are distinguished and at
such a wonderful point in yourcareer.
But I wonder, looking back now,with all you've accomplished,
what does success mean to you?
We've defined sort of quote,unquote, rejection, but what do
you think success really meansin the arts?
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Oh geez, I think if somebody's still doing it, then
that's successful and it couldbe.
It could be as a profession orit could be, just because of the
love of it, I think.
I think success is whateveranyone creates it to be, and not
what they not measuringthemselves against anyone else
but themselves.
You're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I've done a lot of thinking about this.
Yeah, no, I love that, I lovethat so much.
Yeah, no, I love that, I lovethat so much.
And I'm going to read even morefun little calendar ripoff
(47:25):
quotes from you with ourbeautiful game segment Casting
Keywords.
I think I might have're verysensitive all around to the word
rejection because I think,especially with younger talent,
it is triggering.
But that's how we built thecallus, so let's do this.
Sorry, that sounded callous.
I'll say a word or a phrasefrom our work so something
commonly found in casting andyou just respond with the first
(47:50):
piece of tangible advice thatpops into your head.
Okay, so sort of like wordassociation, but more advice
driven.
Okay, we're going to start outwith what auditions start with
Slate.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Oh, so bring yourself to the slate.
You know, at least in my world,it's the best thing I'm going
to get about seeing you.
I can't see you in the room.
If you're slating, it meansyou're taping from somewhere
else, so I'd love to have aspark of who you are.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Oh, I love that and already I know I'm like this is
a flash round, but everybodyknows I always go on tangents.
I meant to ask you before Ipinned this sort of in my mind
when you had said we weretalking about everybody just
coming in and sort of leadingwith their resume versus who
they are.
I'm guessing that when an actorcomes into the room, I mean
maybe they could do this on alive Zoom audition with you as
(48:42):
well.
I hope they wouldn't maybe doit in a slate, but you'd
probably rather see them as ahuman versus them saying oh yeah
, I just got back from tour.
I just you know, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Absolutely, totally Lead with your humanity.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Lead with humanity, and the same is said with script
analysis.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh boy, yeah, well, that goes back to what we were
saying about preparation,preparation.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
So do it.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Definitely do it.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Overall self-tape tip .
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Don't make yourself crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
I love that.
I'm going to take that with meas I go, because you could just
keep taping and taping.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
It's never going to be perfect, but you know,
chances are the earlier versionsof your tape will be better
than the later ones.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
More sort of like real and have that energy that's
not tired.
We talk about that a lot inhere too, right, everybody?
We're going to max at five.
We're going to aim for fivetakes.
Don't let yourself go into likethe 20s or 30s.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Okay, I don't want that for you.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Making a choice.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Tell me more about what you mean by that.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I feel like we hear make a choice a lot as a
direction, and I've asked a lotof casting folks this and the
answers are similar but I thinkeveryone doesn't realize.
Maybe they have a differentmeaning of that.
So I would love to know yourmeaning.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I think how I interpret, make a choice is when
you come into the room, beempowered with going back to
script interpretation.
Be empowered that yourinterpretation is the right way
for you to come into the room.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I really love that.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
So that's your choice .
Speaker 2 (50:23):
And see that's actually different from all the
other ones too, which isbeautiful.
All of them are similar butdifferent, so take that with you
, everybody.
Audition attire.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
What does that mean?
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
In the sense of attire your wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Oh, attire, I'm thinking attire.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Roll in on one tire.
Sorry, this is how we rollAudition attire.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Don't upstage yourself.
Wear clothes that maybe supportwhat you're going in for, but
don't make it to the point thatI'm only focused on that.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, you should wear the clothes, not the clothes
Exactly.
The clothes shouldn't wear youExactly.
I'll land that play Directorsessions.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Oh well, those are important and bring your A game.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I like that Improv in auditions.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Oh, be selective, Don't.
If you're a playwright, I thinkyou have to be very careful
with improv in sessions andrewriting things if it's not
invited.
So, I think if you've beengiven text to do, do the text.
If there's something whereyou're invited to improv within
the context of it, have a goodtime.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
I love that.
Okay, and the last one I'll sayhere is not psyching yourself
out, so not getting in your ownway.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Oh gosh, there's a wonderful teacher author named
Sharon Salzberg who says thatwhen the critic shows up in you.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
She, I think, named hers Edith, that she?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
invites her out to tea and leaves her at the cafe
to get her tea work, and I feellike like with um, not you know,
like not sucking yourself out,or sucking yourself out like
just when that critic comes intoyour head.
Just tell it it could, it couldstep aside for a little bit so
you could get your work done.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I love that.
Acknowledge it and then don'tput any more energy in it.
They can deal with the barista,that's so great exactly, thank
you.
Okay, you win the game.
I don't know what you win, youjust win for being great and I
know I got to let you go and Iwould really just appreciate it
if we could end our timetogether by you sharing a gotten
and a given.
So we end every episode bygetting our guests gotten, which
(52:44):
is the best piece of advicethey've gotten in this industry
that they feel like they tookwith them, and the given is the
best piece they now have to give.
So if we could start with yourgotten, stephanie, that would be
wonderful.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
I think it was from my dad, actually.
Who who reminded me?
Well, it goes back to what wewere saying about, you know,
sort of measuring yourself upagainst other people.
And why does this person havethis opportunity, why they have
that opportunity, why didn't Iget this or why don't I have
that?
And it was just, everythinghappens in its own time and he
(53:17):
just really reminded me to justkeep doing what I was doing and
I'd find my way.
And I think that that's, that'syou know what has been very
helpful.
Yeah, and I guess that's alsoadvice that I would pass on,
which is so easy to compareyourself to others and wonder
why things aren't happening theway you want them to happen or
(53:37):
envision them happening, and andyou, we all have our own paths
and it all happens the way it'sgoing to happen to the younger
audience members, but Imentioned that you do so much
wonderful work with the Jimmysfor our young artists,
specifically our high schoolmusical theater performers.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Is there a piece of advice you feel like you give in
those teachings that you wouldlike to share with listeners,
people maybe?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
just starting out.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
I guess listeners that might be that age, yeah,
well, I think that it's.
There seems to be this sensethat time is going so fast and
you have to get wherever thatplace is to get to be super
famous, and I think there's alot of road to travel before you
get to that point.
And, and I just think, have agreat time learning and and and
(54:29):
and having great adventures, anddon't worry so much.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I love that.
I'm going to take that with mejust in life, because if you're
chasing fame, you're going toalways be chasing.
Let's be real, you know that isnot guaranteed, so sort of just
do what you love.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, and I think that the trap of chasing fame is
when is enough enough and whenhave you really gotten there?
And I think the answer is younever really feel like you've
had enough or gotten there.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Well, I feel like I got there with you.
I got so much wonderful advice.
Stephanie, just to you know,bookend this with another cheesy
transition.
I feel so grateful that we haveyou in this industry as a
leader and someone we can lookup to, because not only are you
extremely knowledgeable and openand vulnerable with sharing all
that knowledge, but you're justsuch a kind-hearted soul.
So thank you for being that wayand being yourself.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Robert, I feel the same about you and I'm really
glad you're in my life.
Thank you, oh, you're so sweetThanks for this opportunity.
Thank you,
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