February 11, 2025 • 59 mins
Casting Director Tara Rubin, a name synonymous with Broadway brilliance, graces How We Role, pulling the curtain to reveal the humanity and precision behind the casting process. Tara joins host Robert Peterpaul to explore her journey from a third grader with a passion for theater to forming one of the most sought after casting companies in the business.
The legendary Casting Director (whose credits, include: Phantom of the Opera, Dear Evan Hansen, Six the musical, Death Becomes Her, The Outsiders and many more) gives actors a wealth of advice, from an actor's audition prep to how to walk into an audition room to avoiding self-sabotage.
Learn more about Tara Rubin and The TRC Company (formerly Tara Rubin Casting) here.
This is - How We Role. Get cast today at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robert Peterpual (00:00):
Listeners.
Today we have the iconiccasting director, tara Rubin.
Welcome to how we Roll.
Tara Rubin (00:06):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Robert Peterpual (00:09):
I said this to you before, but I admire not
only this legendary career thatyou've carved out for yourself
in our industry, but the way youseem to navigate this business
with such kindness and love istruly admirable, so I want to
start by thanking you for that.
Tara Rubin (00:25):
Oh, thank you for saying that, um, you know, it
means a lot to me that, thatthat when I hear from someone
how much they appreciate, youknow, our um but I, the way we
approach our work at our office.
But I also always have to saythat that's all because of what
you all do.
You know, when you come intoaudition you've prepared so much
(00:47):
material and you, you know,gone through all the emotional
exercises and physical exercisesthat you need to to do before
you come into audition.
So to kind of greet you withanything or receive you with
anything less than that justdoesn't seem appropriate.
Robert Peterpual (01:07):
Oh well, I feel like we're all really good
readers, not just auditionreaders, maybe, but readers as
artists.
We can read energy.
So when we walk into the room,we feel the warmth, we feel the
love, we feel the excitementwhich, unfortunately, it's not
always the case, depending onwhere you're going.
So it is something to begrateful for.
And I do want to say also we'rerecording this in the morning.
(01:29):
I have my morning voice on myfrog voice, so it's going to be
kind of a coffee and and castingconversation.
I think you have your coffee oryour tea.
Tara Rubin (01:37):
I have, I have my coffee.
Robert Peterpual (01:39):
You.
Okay, I have my favorite, oneof my favorite mugs.
It's my hello, my Mrs.
So welcome friends, grab a mugand join us.
I guess to start at the verybeginning, which I hear, is a
very good place to start veryplace to start.
I know growing up you lovedentertainment.
You loved all things movies anddance and the theater.
(02:00):
But I think things seem toshift for you with a formative
experience you had Well in thirdgrade, right With Mrs
Cradaville Cradaville.
Tara Rubin (02:10):
Miss Cradaville.
Robert Peterpual (02:10):
Miss Cradaville, I believe, who I did
try to track down to get aquote.
I don't know where she is, butI can't find her either.
Tara Rubin (02:17):
I can't find her either, I know.
Robert Peterpual (02:19):
Well, I love that you keep her alive and in
your heart right now, ininterviews, you know, by just
bringing her up, can you kind oftake us through that impactful
moment, because I think teachersare so valuable in forming our
journeys.
Tara Rubin (02:31):
Yes, miss Cradaville was probably around 22.
You know we were her firstclass and this was in St Louis,
missouri, and you know it wasthe 1960s.
She was so progressive shewould she brought in a rug and
rolled it out and we would pushthe desk aside and sit on the
(02:52):
floor.
And that doesn't sound veryprogressive now, but in those
days, like everything was somuch more rigid in the public
school system and she loved thetheater, and so she showed us
what was kind of like.
I'm taking you on a historylesson.
Robert Peterpual (03:06):
I love it.
I'm there, I'm along to theright.
Tara Rubin (03:10):
She showed us this film strip about the Globe
Theater and like do you justlove that idea of this young
teacher showing third graderswho you know are running around
with paper airplanes and stuffin St Louis Missouri, like a
film strip about Shakespeare,and, and I loved it.
And then she read us parts ofJulius Caesar.
(03:32):
And.
I really loved that too.
And so I went to the schoollibrary and I said like, like I
heard about this guy Shakespeare, and I wondered if I could get
some books.
And the librarian said, well,we don't think you should
probably, you know, getShakespeare.
But there were these retoldShakespeare tales by a woman
(03:52):
named Marcia Chute and I guessshe did a lot of the classics
and she kind of retold them sothat children.
So I read all of those, I readlike all, and there's basically
a summary and then of the storyand then there'd be like little
excerpts that were explicated,and so that really Miss
Credoville sang to us.
Oh, you know, her sisterappeared at the St Louis Munia
(04:16):
Opera as child performers, wow,and yeah, she was an amazing
teacher.
So like that definitely was theopen door for me.
That's so special.
Robert Peterpual (04:25):
I love that story.
I picture you almost as alittle Matilda you know her
going to the library and likeyou've read all these already,
or Belle even, but I'll read ittwice.
I think that's such a beautifulstory.
Tara Rubin (04:39):
Yes, I was in the library club in junior high
school so like you kind of get asense of like what my
background was.
Robert Peterpual (04:45):
There's no place like the library.
Libraries are magic.
I think so too.
Tara Rubin (04:49):
I think that's one of my favorite little streets in
the city by Brian Park.
Robert Peterpual (04:53):
I think it's library way If you haven't been
down it check it out.
There's quotes from acclaimedauthors on the ground you might
trip.
I've definitely stumbledreading them a couple of times,
but it's worth the stumble, aswe, I guess, stumble on your
journey.
Do you remember when you firstlearned what a casting director
did?
Tara Rubin (05:12):
Yes, it was when I I moved to New York and so I had
studied theater in college fortwo years and I thought, oh, I
don't know, this is really rightfor me.
I might not be very good at itand I, you know, I maybe
temperamentally I'm not suitedto be a performer, I'm not sure.
(05:33):
So I ended up transferring tothe liberal arts college at
Boston University and some mydegrees in English literature,
and so I missed, like the onlypart of the theater training
that I got was like lying on thefloor, breathing, you know, or
elementary acting, speechexercises the first two years,
(05:57):
dramatic literature, which wasgreat.
So then I came to the library.
So then I came to New York, notsure what I wanted to do, but
just knowing that I wanted tolive in New York.
And after a couple of years oftrying different things I kept
getting drawn back to thetheater and so I started taking
an acting class at the HB studioand and so I kind of got drawn
(06:20):
back into it.
And then I went to work for aproducer.
So when I was working for theproducers I mean they knew that
casting directors were employedto cast, but I didn't exactly I
didn't really know much moreabout it than that.
I certainly hadn't had enoughlike professional auditions to
have met any.
So when I was working on thisBroadway play it was called
(06:46):
Execution of Justice by EmilyMann, I met these two men named
Jeffrey Johnson and Vincent Lyft, who were kind of like the
legendary Johnson Lyft castingof the 70s, 80s, 90s and I loved
working with them and theyalways they treated me like one
(07:09):
of them, like, not like anassistant, and I liked that.
And so when the play closed andMr Osterman closed up his office
in New York and moved toConnecticut, I went to work for
Johnson Lyft.
Robert Peterpual (07:25):
And that's when you first started working
on Phantom.
I believe right.
Tara Rubin (07:27):
Yes Phantom.
I worked on that from the verybeginning, from the first day of
auditions, and they werecasting.
The very first year that I wasthere, my very first day of work
, I was setting up auditions forthe original company of laymans
.
Robert Peterpual (07:46):
Iconic See iconic.
I said icon.
Tara Rubin (07:49):
And we're still casting it today.
Robert Peterpual (07:50):
That is incredible.
Tara Rubin (07:51):
Makes me very happy.
Robert Peterpual (07:53):
Well, it also makes me happy that you had some
acting training.
I know you laughed it off alittle bit, but the training you
had is actually great just forlife in general breathing and
speaking to people and all thatwonderful juicy stuff.
But I think if we could all dothat in this business, just try
on different hats.
That's why I love being areader as an actor, because
you're behind the table and youkind of are doing what you love
(08:14):
but there's less pressure andyou sort of see that it's really
not always about you.
There's just so many movingparts.
So I like that you have thatexperience.
Tara Rubin (08:23):
I think what you just said is so true about it
not being about you, and I thinkthat actors have a tendency to
understandably, kind of try tograsp at a very specific reason
why they were or weren't cast.
And there's no such thing in away.
(08:45):
I mean, obviously sometimespeople can't really evoke the
time and place that they don't,they don't have access to the
things that that character needsto have.
Maybe then it's obvious, but itdoesn't really have it.
It doesn't have anything to dowith like cracking on a note or
(09:07):
forgetting a line or droppingyour sides or stumbling through
a couple of lines.
We know that you're auditioning, we know that we're not in
performance, so we can let a lotof that go, and I hope that
actors learn to understand thata little bit as they move in
(09:31):
through their careers.
Robert Peterpual (09:33):
And I think sometimes what you correct me if
I'm wrong with those quoteunquote, imperfect moments are
what actually get you thecallback or the job, dropping
your sides.
They're like, oh, the characterwould totally do that, or in a
zoom.
You know, something like anotification just went off on my
computer somehow, even thoughmy sound is plugged into the
headphones and it snaps you backinto the present, a lot of
these things.
(09:53):
So they can be little gifts, Ithink.
Tara Rubin (09:56):
I agree, and I think sometimes, when, when an actor
kind of goes up on a line, itoften especially in an audition
it's often because they're sodeeply in that moment and they
haven't lived there yet, becausethey haven't gone to the
rehearsal process, and so it'slike they just arrived in a new
(10:16):
place and they're looking aroundand they can't, and so it's
usually because of some kind oflike deep connection, more than
it is a metal thing, I think.
Robert Peterpual (10:26):
Yeah, I was self taping last night and my
neighbors upstairs were stompingaround and there's the old me
pardon me, that's thinking I'mgonna start over, but then I'm
thinking, no, he's, he's in anapartment.
This might be the neighbors inthe seat.
It's just like you know.
It's the environment.
Go with it.
See what happens to, I guess.
See what happens and fastforward a bit in your journey.
When you started your companyTara Rubin Casting I don't need
(10:48):
to tell you what it's called Didyou have a specific intention
on the type of casting companyyou wanted to be?
I'm not sure.
No, I'm not sure.
Tara Rubin (10:59):
I wish I could say that I did have a specific
intention.
I knew I was at a place where Ihad been in the same job for 15
years and so I needed to seewhat challenged myself.
Is this the most I can do?
(11:20):
Is there something else that Ican do?
That's the most I can do.
That was one motivation.
As far as the ethos of thecompany, I wish I could say that
I had a mission and I reallydidn't.
I just was immediately reallyluckily so busy that I just kind
(11:46):
of did it the way I did it.
I did have a lot of ethosthings from Johnson Lyft that I
brought with me.
They were always tremendouslygracious to actors.
I thought and appreciated them.
I don't think they would havesaid this, but they were truly a
(12:09):
team.
I was always included atopening nights and dinners.
They were very inclusive of thewhole group and so those things
I just kind of naturallybrought with me.
I didn't really think about it.
I was lucky that I really knew.
Robert Peterpual (12:29):
Yeah, it's similar to acting right.
It's like you don't want to puton things that you already have
.
You're just bringing naturallyyourself to it.
And when I think of you all, Ithink of not just actor first
but, I guess, human first.
It's a very human first office,which is great because we're
all human.
Sometimes being human is one ofthe hardest things to do in
life.
But New Slash, we are that.
(12:50):
So just be I know.
So this is my morning ramble.
Tara Rubin (12:54):
I would say that in the early days I did know that I
wanted us to be an office thatcan make it happen.
And so if someone called at 6PM and said we have to change
the schedule for tomorrow, thedirector can't be there, tany
has to come at noon, or thedirector has to has a doctor
(13:18):
appointment, so she's cancelingwhatever it is that we would
accommodate and that we would beable to roll with that and even
kind of at our own expense, butthat we would do that and that
was important to me.
And then I also I didn't and Ididn't realize this until like a
(13:40):
few years in but I I didn't doit like a man, like I didn't try
to be other than who I was, andI think that that was helpful
in some cases and maybe not sohelpful in others.
You know, there were certainclients who who really responded
(14:00):
to the way I worked.
And then there were others,like you know, you don't really
want to see I'm a sure woman cry, but like sometimes I did and I
would.
It would be embarrassing, likeeither because I was so moved by
an audition or because I wasupset or whatever, and and I
worked against that for a whileand then about five years ago I
(14:24):
realized, like, for women inthis business, that's our added
value, the fact that we are soclose to our most many women are
so close to our feelings thatwe that we're we're eight, we
have that access, we have thatemotional intelligence.
Like you talked about reading aroom and being able to walk in
(14:46):
and kind of understand thepersonalities and and women are
often like hosting things, andso that's a real quality.
And in casting, introducingpeople, making sure people are
accommodated, that they theyneed to take a break, they need
to have a coffee, you know thosekinds of things.
(15:08):
And but particularly like the,I was always told like you're
too emotional, you're overlysensitive and like, and then
about five years ago I thought,right, I am.
I do take it too personally, andthat's my, that's my added
value.
Robert Peterpual (15:25):
You know I love that.
That's your superpower, terry.
We haven't taken it personally.
I think that's so cool.
I really do.
I love that.
And I was talking maybe I'llcut this out because I don't
have the data to back it up butI was talking to a friend in
casting and she was saying I wasjust trying to pick people's
brains about questions to askyou that maybe you don't always
get asked, and she thought askher something about being a
(15:48):
woman in this business.
Do you find it interesting thatit feels again, I don't have
the data, but it feels like mostsuccessful casting directors
are women.
It sort of feels like that'sone area of the industry that is
predominantly women.
So I think you maybe justtalked about why, but I don't
know if that's true.
Tara Rubin (16:07):
Well, I mean, yes, there are.
I think part of it is historicand I don't have a lot of data
to back this up either, but I'mpretty sure this is true and
that's because in the old days,you know, like in the 40s, 50s,
60s, the cast there weren'tindependent casting directors,
it was like the job of somebodyin David Merrick's office.
(16:29):
Jeffrey Johnson, my old boss,was David Merrick's casting
director for a while, and so itwas kind of like the girl's job,
you know, and she had a filefolder in her desk drawer with
some pictures and resumes in itand the agents would go to the
(16:50):
offices of the producers and say, you know, hey, what do you
have for my client, robert PeterFall?
Like he's back from his tour.
Like you know he's really Ihear you've got this title that
you're about to work on let'sgive him a shot.
So casting was like the woman's, it was like the girl's job,
(17:13):
and then I think it developedfrom there.
Robert Peterpual (17:15):
And then it was claimed, sort of like how
you claimed again I love thatidea of taking it personally and
using all of that in the roomto make everybody feel
comfortable and hopefully theother side is using it too to do
their job, and then it's justone big, open, human room, which
is great, you know, but youcan't give from an empty mug.
I'll say, since we're drinkingcoffee this morning, do you have
any self care practices as acreative that you can share with
(17:39):
us that you think might behelpful for all creatives in
general, especially with yourjob, which I feel like is such
long and just unexpected hours?
Tara Rubin (17:49):
It is, and I think casting directors have in the
last few years begun to, youknow, try to approach their work
with a little bit more of asense of their own worth in the
process and their and keepingself care in mind.
(18:13):
I couldn't even really say itright Just now.
I could barely get it.
I don't come from a generationof women who really thought
about self care like we just didour lives, you know.
But I do take, you know,personal health seriously, and
so I think all of that is goodand I think that the generation
(18:35):
that's coming up will do areally good job of trying to
keep those principles, you know,part of their casting practice
and understanding when they haveto, like, say we can't do that,
you know.
Understanding when they say likeI need a week off, and things
(18:56):
like that.
I think that that will be agreat improvement for this
generation that the millennialsin the next group will bring to
our world.
Robert Peterpual (19:08):
Yeah, you know , I almost wish there was a
union trained professional onevery set, in every rehearsal,
in the casting room, justworking with anyone on the
project to I don't know, maybeit's more of a therapist talk to
them and make sure they'retaking care of themselves or
kind of advocate for them andsaying, hey, they actually went
over the 10 hours yesterday.
Can they go home and see theirkids and we can get this PA to
(19:28):
fill in or whatever it is.
So I think that's maybesomething we'll incorporate down
the line.
Maybe we can plan it right now.
Tara Rubin (19:35):
We're taking steps.
You know it's really pushing aboulder up a hill in some ways,
and it's being done.
You know, I think in the regions, rehearsal in some of the
regional theaters, the rehearsalhours have been reduced and I
(19:58):
think I hope people are payingattention.
You know, I was talking tosomebody last night and I was
saying like I think the best waywe can make progress in a lot
of these issues is for mygeneration to constantly be
(20:18):
reminded, for people to keeptapping on our shoulders and
saying you have to remember thehuman, you have to remember that
this is a very important issueand it's you know don't roll
your eyes at this, tara Likethis is key, and the young
people in my office do that forme, and then I need to remind
(20:40):
them that, yes, thank you forreminding me that we need to
make these changes and that someof the pillars of what we have
are there for a good reason.
That's for me to remind you thatthere's a certain amount of
rigor that we have to maintainin order to keep art flowing and
(21:03):
creating, and so I feel likeI'm so fortunate that I can do
that with the people on my team.
You know that they can say youknow, when there are
controversies about casting andauthenticity and casting, that
like we are really talking aboutit and I'm really listening to
(21:24):
them.
You know, and you knowsometimes I'm the most radical
one in the group.
You know it's funny andsometimes I'm blind to like
something that I should haveseen.
So it's like anintergenerational approach to
everything is usually a prettygood idea, isn't it?
Robert Peterpual (21:44):
Yeah, I think walking in people's shoes too
would be really helpful ifpeople could sit in the room
with you all, if you filmed onecasting session, and they could
just see how many hours you'reputting in to every line, every
role, to each word you put in abreakdown.
My wife, I like to say she castswords, she works for Pearson,
so she's putting togetherstandardized tests which can be
seen.
(22:04):
As you know the enemy, and shewas a teacher so she totally
understands that.
But just watching how manyhours she puts into every word
of every passage they choose,each state has different
requirements for what words youcan use, what representation is
needed.
I think it's a similar case inthat if we all just took a step
back and realized how much workis going into all of this,
(22:26):
there'd be more understanding, Ithink, of the humanness of it
all.
But you know, while I have youhere, I'd love to roll through
the casting process briefly forlisteners and then park on some
specifics along the way.
Again, I have so many questions.
Would you mind sort of justbriefly taking us through the
overview of your workflow on anyproject?
Tara Rubin (22:47):
Sure, so let's just take an original Broadway show,
which usually, by the time it'scoming to Broadway, we've done a
reading and a workshop andpossibly a regional production.
So the journey is much longerthan it used to be, you know.
But for Broadway we would alwaysstart with the equity required
(23:10):
calls, which are requiredthrough an agreement with the
producers Broadway League andthe actors' equity union, and so
we would have equity principalauditions, equity chorus calls,
equity dance calls.
Then oftentimes that's followedby, like some preliminary
(23:31):
auditions.
Sometimes they take place withassociate directors, associate
choreographers, someone from amusic team, and those are always
like really fun for me becauseI love getting to know the
associates, because chances are,if the show is successful,
they're the people that we'll beworking with when we cast the
(23:53):
replacements and maybe thenational tour and things like
that.
So our ongoing relationshipwith them is gonna be important
to our efficacy and our just thequality of the experience, and
so that's when we might.
(24:14):
People we've seen in showcases,people we've heard about people
that have been submittedthrough agents, but we don't
really know them.
So then we take a period ofseeing those people, recalling
people from the open calls, andthen usually the director will
show up for maybe a week or twoweeks and then we start to like
(24:36):
refine the process.
It's kind of like taking alarge group and, step by step,
finding the people who are themost appropriate for telling the
story.
You know who seem like thedenizens of the world that we're
creating.
Robert Peterpual (24:53):
Oh, good word yeah.
Tara Rubin (24:55):
And you like it changes.
You know, like, if you're avisual person, it's sort of like
the color values, like are theyreally vivid and bold or are
they a little more muted, or arethey almost water, like, you
know, watercoloring, yeah, sothat I'm always really
(25:18):
appreciative of that associatephase, because that's where I
begin to see like, oh, you know,I might not have been quite,
you know, on the right path withthis, and everybody is saying
that it has to be this, but I'mthinking maybe let's just add a
few people who bring thisquality to it and see if that
(25:38):
might, you know, be exciting andalso work.
You know so that.
And then the director comes,and then it's sort of like the
clouds are lifted and thedirector is there and you see
what she had in mind and you,you know that's, and obviously
the associates have beenrepresenting that.
(25:59):
But then you get the.
You know, then it's like you'redealing with the God of it, all
right, but you begin to see like, oh, the choreography is really
telling the story and thevision is so specific.
And then the last two days orthree days usually, the
producers come and they, youknow, they get to see the, and
(26:24):
then they get to see the finalcandidates and then there's a
discussion about you know whowill be the final cast.
And I always say it takes asmuch time as you have.
You know, like if you only havetwo weeks, like you do it in
two weeks, if you have a year,we'll use the whole year.
You know it just ends on.
Robert Peterpual (26:44):
It's like self-taping yeah.
Tara Rubin (26:46):
Yes, yeah, definitely.
Robert Peterpual (26:49):
Well, thank you for taking us through that.
First of all, it's sofascinating.
Tara Rubin (26:52):
That's an overview and sometimes it's a little
different.
And you know, sometimes by thetime we get to Broadway we have
a lot of our cast, because we'vedone the workshop and we've
done the regional production,and maybe somebody in the
regional production can't do itbecause she's got a television
series now and so we have toplace that person and then
(27:14):
you're fine.
That's a kind of differentassignment because you've
already created the world andyou're going to find somebody
who belongs there, you know.
Yeah.
So you know, but that's theoverview.
Robert Peterpual (27:27):
It's so cool.
You're like detectives in yourown right and I think actors are
as well.
On a different end, andsomething as an actor I'm
fascinated by I mentioned thisearlier before we started
recording, I think are thebreakdowns like the ones we see
on Casting Network shout out.
I know casting is on our sideand pulling out any kind of
golden nuggets of informationthey have or changing it as
(27:50):
things develop.
Do you have any suggestions foractors on how to break down a
breakdown and really downloadthat into their performance?
Tara Rubin (28:00):
Such a good question and honestly I don't think
anyone's ever asked me thatbefore.
I have two different kind ofconflicting ideas about it.
Robert Peterpual (28:11):
One I let's talk about both.
Tara Rubin (28:13):
Yeah, one, it kind of related to Udahagen, and she
always advised that you blackout any descriptions of the
character like that.
Come in the play and black outand just concentrate on the
language.
And so to a certain extent,sometimes, when, well, we don't
(28:37):
always write the breakdowns,oftentimes like the writer will
or somebody on the writer's teamwill, but so sometimes I like
that, I like the idea of itbeing like you know the gender.
If the race is essential to thecharacter, then what the race
(28:59):
would be, this race isn'tessential, then we designate
that.
Maybe it's age appropriate, isit important?
You know just all the thingsthat are important to like tell
the story as this character.
And then, you know, sometimes Ilike to give as little as
(29:20):
possible and just see what theactors bring to it, the actors
bring to it and especially ifit's Well, it's like.
But then sometimes, thensometimes we've been in
situations where we're havingdifficulty casting a part and
(29:41):
we're bringing in brilliantactors who are just like not
connecting with the material.
And this happened a few yearsago where the director said, can
I see the breakdown Like, whatare we sending these women?
And she revised it and itreally made a difference.
You know, just like what wewere providing to the artists
(30:02):
prior to their work on thematerial was really important
and that editing process of whatwe were giving out really made
a difference in the room.
So I don't know if I've exactlyanswered the question, but it's
like I would say that theinformation in the breakdown is
(30:26):
deliberate, you know.
So if it's really sketchy, knowthat, know that.
Like okay, so they must bepretty open to like and they're
asking me to come in so I canlook at myself and look at, you
know, my imagination for thischaracter and see what I can
create.
And oftentimes there thebreakdowns have like some
(30:50):
emotional qualities that I thinkare really helpful for actors
to look at.
So so, yeah, I would just, Iwould just suggest that you read
it carefully, that's reallyhelpful.
Robert Peterpual (31:02):
That's a really helpful tip the length of
the breakdown to.
If it's shorter, you can assumemaybe they're a bit more open.
There's not as much there, sortof take what you find on the
page and also remind yourself, Iguess, how you're presenting
yourself to casting to, becausethat's why they're calling you
in.
So all that is maybe stuff youdon't need to put on, because
that's sort of the essence thatyou're giving out, so you can
(31:24):
maybe cross out the words thatmatch with that and just assume
you have it.
That's cool.
No, that was very helpful,thank you.
I appreciate that.
Everybody jot down the notes athome.
Tara Rubin (31:34):
Well, I also think, you know you said putting it on
and there is sometimes, I think,a tendency for actors to add
things to the character or addthings to the scene when they
come into audition, and I thinkit's an effort to kind of share
a creativity of theirs.
(31:55):
You know, like I can do thisdialect, so I'm going to give
this character a dialect, or I'mgoing to give her a tick or
chewing gum, because I thinkshe's not smart, you know, or
like any of those kind ofpejorative, any of those kind
Like yeah, I guess like, and thefact is like they're not often
(32:18):
that helpful.
Yeah, because it's like let'sjust explore the text, let's
just explore what you thinkabout this character and this
text that's given, and maybe thedirector will say like oh, by
the way, she's from you know.
Oh, by the way, she's fromAlabama.
It's like we should have toldher that we didn't know.
(32:40):
You know so, but most of thetime I really feel like sticking
to the text for that firstaudition is helpful, like we
don't need a funny walk or a,unless it's specified, of course
, in the instructions, becausewhat they end up doing is kind
(33:02):
of clouding you rather thanrevealing you.
You know like we want to getclose to what you're you and
what you're going to bring toour storytelling, and so, yeah,
so I kind of feel like the moreof you you bring, the more
exciting it is for the peoplebehind the table.
Robert Peterpual (33:24):
Yes, and sort of starting at the ground level.
And this reminds me too.
You know I understand it, but Ithink when directors and
casting directors say make achoice, it can be a little bit
ambiguous, especially for peoplejust starting out, and there's
not really a class describingthat.
And I understand it can be aplethora of things.
But for you, what does thatmean?
(33:45):
Is that more so a strongperspective on the character?
Is that sort of beat by beat?
Do you have anything in mindwhen you hear the word make a
choice?
Tara Rubin (33:55):
Yeah, I think of it more as like have an idea about
the scene and about thecharacter and the relationships
and the given circumstances, andlike have ideas about those
things and bring them to thematerial Like they should be
relevant.
I don't mean that like if it's,you know, a contemporary piece
(34:17):
and you decide, oh, my idea isthat it's medieval, like that.
I just mean an idea about thelevel of is it easy to have this
conversation?
Is it easy for this characterto say these things?
What does it cost me to saythese things?
So, if we think about it, not somuch as making a choice but
(34:44):
having it working through thetext and working through the
script, and you know, one thingI think that especially early
career artists don't understandis that there is an expectation
that you've really done that,that you've really thought about
it.
I think sometimes actorsbelieve, oh, I want to be sort
(35:07):
of a blank slate, so if I'mgiven notes or I'm given
adjustments, I'll be able to dothem.
Yes, that's important, but itis important to present a point
of view about it and it could bea little off or it could be a
little wrong, but in thosedecisions that you make about it
(35:27):
about what you're presenting inthose ideas.
That gives us a chance to seeyour technique, to see your
imagination at work.
So a choice seems a littlearbitrary, almost, or like it's
(35:48):
disconnected, but it's really.
The choice is to connect you.
You make a choice that willshow it, that will help you
connect to the material.
Robert Peterpual (35:57):
Yes, and I feel like in any life, you know,
I could have been a cop, youcould have been a librarian.
So, even if you don'tnecessarily connect to the role
or what they're doing, if you'rebringing yourself and shining,
you know yourself through thetext.
I think everything you'resaying will help with that.
It's just, it's more aboutmaking choices, which we do
every day.
News flash.
Tara Rubin (36:18):
And what's important , like you know, and obviously
you know the elements of dramaare at play, like, the more
important it is, the moreexciting it is for us.
You know, the higher the stakesfor the situation, the more
tension and suspense andexcitement we'll have on art as
(36:40):
a viewer.
So going big is not always abad idea if it's, if it's, you
know, like if, if it's full, bigand full.
Robert Peterpual (36:52):
Big and full Well, speaking of big and full
and not just about my breakfastwalking into the room in a big
and full way, I'm veryinterested in this.
In recent years I just wasalways walking in and kind of
being myself and then startingthe audition and not carrying on
too much.
Although I love talking topeople, I think it's become a
(37:13):
thing that people talk about nowand everyone it's subjective
has a different view of how theywant people to walk into the
room.
What's yours?
Do you like people to kind of Ithink I read you don't
necessarily love when someone'scoming in character, quote
unquote but do you like it tojust be kind of snappy and not
really have a lot of chit chatand just do what you're there to
do?
What's your vibe?
Tara Rubin (37:32):
Well, it kind of goes back to what you said
earlier about reading the room.
There are directors who are alittle bit chatty and like to
put you at ease.
If that's happening, go withthat.
If the director is like oh, howare you today?
What about the rain?
What about those mats, whateverit is?
(37:55):
I hope you'll be able to kindof naturally respond to that If
there's a simple introduction Iwould use.
Sometimes there's so many peopleat the table that I just say
here's our creative team, allhere for you today, here's our
accompanist, go over and say no,and so there's not a lot of
(38:19):
anything preliminary to do.
So I think, sadly, we kind ofhave to meet somewhere.
You know, and there are so manymore of us usually than there
are of you.
If I'm screening, come in,let's just do it.
(38:42):
But you kind of have to assume,especially early on in your
career, that we don't reallyknow you yet.
So everything we know about youis what's going to happen in
the room that day.
You know what I mean.
So I think it's a little bitlike going a little bit more on
(39:07):
the formal side than the kind ofcasual side is not a bad idea,
and maybe that's a generationalthing, because I'm, you know,
like maybe, but it is a.
I mean, we don't know eachother that well yet.
So let's just that's the truth.
Robert Peterpual (39:26):
That's the truth of it is that we're, we'll
get, we'll know each otherbetter after your audition yes,
and in the room and then, Iguess, in the hallway too, for
my favorite thing is when allthe actors turn and see the
casting director going to thebathroom.
Then they come back andeveryone's like that's the
casting director, they left theroom and everyone's trying to
like look like the care, I don'tknow.
(39:47):
I just think we're all suchfunny people, which I love.
There's a lot of humor in it,unspoken humor.
You know, what's hard, I guess,in this vein is that everyone
out there wants to connect withyou all and leave a good
impression, but I thinksometimes people do forget to be
human, sort of like what we'retouching on.
Do you have a favorite firstimpression story from over the
years about an audition?
Tara Rubin (40:09):
When we were casting the original company of Mamma
Mia, it was in, I guess, 2001.
And it was when everybodyfinally had a cell phone.
So people, you know, were like,remember, cell phones were
constantly going off.
I mean, they still do, but Ithink it was worse back then
because people like, just theyweren't as like ingrained in our
(40:31):
lives.
And Judy Kay came into auditionand she, her phone rang and she
said to us, like, went over toher handbag, pulled out her
phone, she said I can't talk toyou right now.
I'm in an audition.
Of course, like, if anyone elsein the world did that, we would
(40:56):
be like, oh my God, you know,like, like, how can we tell her
that?
You know she can't really dothat?
That's like kind of a reallycool thing to do and of course
it was Judy Kay and she was likesorry, let's start over.
Robert Peterpual (41:09):
Like I think that's a wonderful example of
just coming into the room asyourself, because if that's who
you are, then you're showing whoyou are and it works for you.
Not don't have your, don't havepeople call you when you're in
the room everyone.
But if it happens and that'syou know who you are and you're
able to answer it's.
It's funny, because who woulddo that?
So I think that's a that's agreat example of that.
(41:29):
You know, while we're in theroom, I'm sure you witnessed a
lot of actors, maybe startingout and beyond.
It happens to everybody kind ofgetting in their own way or
getting in their own head.
Do you have any thoughts onthis or examples of how you've
been able to kind of take peopleout of it in the moment and
then have maybe a successfulaudition that leads to booking
(41:52):
or not, or just having a goodimpression?
Tara Rubin (41:55):
Well, it seems like it usually happens when someone
is thinking about himselfinstead of the character, or the
character or instead of thework.
And so, if you can, kind of,and you're not acting, you know,
if you, if you're not actingfor yourself, your storytelling
(42:18):
you're doing, you know it's,there's another person there,
and so the degree to which youcan take that step of like this
isn't about me in this moment,right now, which I realize
there's a lot to ask, becauseactually I know it is about you
in that moment, right then.
Right then, you know, but whenthe focus is on the self rather
(42:43):
than the character or on thetext, that's when I think people
have a tendency to get in theirown way.
Robert Peterpual (42:50):
Yeah, and you all, obviously behind the table,
know that there will becostumes, there will be a set,
they will be in this environment.
So as much as you can sort ofevoke that in the room and focus
on that and see where you are,there's all these little, I
guess, tangible tricks that canhelp you stay out of your head,
and I know we're running out oftime and slipping away.
Ah, I know you get asked aboutaudition tips all the time and
(43:14):
what advice you give, and I lovethe advice you've given.
I've read so many articles andlistened to you and I think it's
all marvelous.
At the same time, this podcastaims to give very actionable
advice.
So I do have to ask youquestions on auditioning
specifically, and I thought afun way to do it might be a
little flash round where I sharea topic or, I guess, a couple
words and you just share backthe first thing that pops into
(43:36):
your head as a tip form.
Does that make sense?
Tara Rubin (43:40):
I'll try.
Robert Peterpual (43:41):
Okay, I'll add in some cheesy music.
So this is fun.
All right, whenever you'reready.
Tara Rubin (43:46):
I'm ready.
Robert Peterpual (43:47):
Okay, first up audition etiquette.
Tara Rubin (43:51):
Be polite.
Robert Peterpual (43:54):
Actors dressing the part.
Tara Rubin (43:58):
Suggestion maybe, but no need for costume.
Robert Peterpual (44:02):
Okay, returns my cop uniform.
I'm just kidding, dress towardit.
Tara Rubin (44:05):
Dress toward it.
Dress toward the part.
Robert Peterpual (44:09):
I love that being completely off book.
Tara Rubin (44:14):
Not necessary, but helpful.
Robert Peterpual (44:18):
Doing a cold reading.
Tara Rubin (44:21):
I don't understand why they occur.
Robert Peterpual (44:26):
Same.
We all want to be warm,stopping and starting a scene or
song over in the room.
Tara Rubin (44:34):
Unnecessary.
Yes.
Robert Peterpual (44:37):
Ask in questions about the material.
Tara Rubin (44:41):
Try to ask them before you come in the room.
Robert Peterpual (44:46):
Specific self-tape tip.
Tara Rubin (44:49):
Try to do something significant early in the tape,
something that's significant andpart of the scene, not
something extraneous to thescene.
But go big early on.
Robert Peterpual (45:09):
Go big and full.
I think a lot of actors want tohave that arc and they forget
that the beginning has to startsomewhere too.
Maybe it's different from theend, but that's a helpful one.
Okay, that was kind of it.
Thank you for doing this.
That was fun.
Well, as far as social mediagoes, we need to bring this a
bit into the conversation,because it does play a role in
(45:30):
today's entertainment world.
Do you think actors startingout should be active on social
media and use it as a tool toshowcase them?
I feel like it's almost adigital business card, or does
that not really matter to you?
Tara Rubin (45:44):
It's helpful, as long as actors understand that
everything they put on socialmedia will never go away.
We should make sure that it isa calling, that you want what
you put up to be a calling card.
(46:06):
If you are thinking about yoursocial media as a calling card
for your career as an actor,then that's a way of approaching
social media.
Maybe you don't want to putpictures of yourself on the
beach and that, or maybe you do,just depending on your
(46:27):
personality and the way you lookat your career.
I don't mean that it should belike a website necessarily, but
there's certain freedom andpeople are capturing moments and
everything.
I think it's anothergenerational thing.
I think a lot of people look atactors' social media.
I think it is important and Ithink it should be done with
(47:00):
some consideration.
Robert Peterpual (47:02):
I agree.
I also want to say I love theway your office has begun to use
social media, because I thinkrecently you started posting the
week's notices or the auditionscoming up.
Please don't stop doing that,it's so helpful.
Tara Rubin (47:14):
Yeah, that was.
Frankie Ramirez had that ideabecause we were going to these
equity principle auditions andeight people would come in
during the whole day.
Come on, come in, let us seeyou.
Robert Peterpual (47:29):
Yeah, it's so helpful and wonderful.
So are you.
Before we roll out, I wouldlove if we could end on an
additional inspiring note,because this has all been
inspiring for our listeners.
I'd love to know about adviceyou've both given and gotten, so
a given and a gotten.
Just what's the best piece ofadvice you've gotten about the
(47:52):
entertainment industry andnavigating it?
Tara Rubin (47:56):
To tell the truth.
When situations come up wherethis actor is auditioning for
this role, but then he's alsoauditioning for this role, and
how do we handle that?
Tell everybody everything thatthey need to know.
I guess nowadays it's calledbeing transparent, but be honest
(48:23):
, be truthful.
Robert Peterpual (48:25):
I think that's wonderful advice for life in
general.
You can't go wrong with thetruth and at the end of the day,
even if it gets you in hotwater, at least you know that
you told the truth and you'renot going to wake up in the
middle of the night thinking Ilied.
It's important for actors too,in scenes.
Be honest.
Tara Rubin (48:40):
And I think we have this idea about the
entertainment business and it'slike run by people who are
duplicitous and conniving.
And so can we be humanistic inthat world or will we be
trampled?
And the fact is that when I gotthat advice, I thought, oh yeah
(49:05):
, you can just like, justdoesn't mean that you'll be
trampled by anyone.
You just told the truth and Isay tell people what they need
to know.
I don't need to tell everybodyeverything that I'm doing or
everything that you know, likeall the information I'm privy to
.
I don't need to share that witheveryone, but I need to share
what's important and relevant tothat particular situation.
Robert Peterpual (49:30):
Yes, I think that's an act of kindness and
vulnerability and that'ssomething I'm hoping we can
infuse more of in the industryis just being a human being kind
.
Sometimes it's not read asbeing genuine, unfortunately.
People think maybe you wantsomething, but that's okay,
that's not your problem howpeople read you.
Second, on the opposite side,what is the best piece of advice
(49:51):
you've given or can give topeople looking to consistently
work in this industry?
Tara Rubin (50:00):
It's difficult to hear, probably, but be patient.
It that patience is importantbecause careers will have peaks
and valleys and periods where ofdisappointment and frustration,
(50:23):
and the artist's life is adifficult one, but so rewarding
at the same time, and sopatience will guide you through
it.
Robert Peterpual (50:38):
I need a Tara Rubin ripoff calendar.
Tell Frankie to get that goingon social media, because these
quotes are filling me up andstarting my day on a good note.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, tara.
It was so fun You're amazing.
Tara Rubin (50:53):
You're such a great spirit yourself and your
questions.
Thank you it was fun to talkabout.
You know we talked about funtopics.
Robert Peterpual (51:00):
I'm glad I so appreciate your openness and I
do just want to say thank youagain so much for being a
positive presence in thisindustry.
It doesn't go unnoticed and weneed more people like you, so I
appreciate you all around.
Tara Rubin (51:15):
It is truly my pleasure.
I'm casting director Tara Rubinand this is how we roll.
Listeners.
Today we have the iconiccasting director, tara Rubin.
Welcome to how we Roll.
Tara Rubin (00:06):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Robert Peterpual (00:09):
I said this to you before, but I admire not
only this legendary career thatyou've carved out for yourself
in our industry, but the way youseem to navigate this business
with such kindness and love istruly admirable, so I want to
start by thanking you for that.
Tara Rubin (00:25):
Oh, thank you for saying that, um, you know, it
means a lot to me that, thatthat when I hear from someone
how much they appreciate, youknow, our um but I, the way we
approach our work at our office.
But I also always have to saythat that's all because of what
you all do.
You know, when you come intoaudition you've prepared so much
(00:47):
material and you, you know,gone through all the emotional
exercises and physical exercisesthat you need to to do before
you come into audition.
So to kind of greet you withanything or receive you with
anything less than that justdoesn't seem appropriate.
Robert Peterpual (01:07):
Oh well, I feel like we're all really good
readers, not just auditionreaders, maybe, but readers as
artists.
We can read energy.
So when we walk into the room,we feel the warmth, we feel the
love, we feel the excitementwhich, unfortunately, it's not
always the case, depending onwhere you're going.
So it is something to begrateful for.
And I do want to say also we'rerecording this in the morning.
(01:29):
I have my morning voice on myfrog voice, so it's going to be
kind of a coffee and and castingconversation.
I think you have your coffee oryour tea.
Tara Rubin (01:37):
I have, I have my coffee.
Robert Peterpual (01:39):
You.
Okay, I have my favorite, oneof my favorite mugs.
It's my hello, my Mrs.
So welcome friends, grab a mugand join us.
I guess to start at the verybeginning, which I hear, is a
very good place to start veryplace to start.
I know growing up you lovedentertainment.
You loved all things movies anddance and the theater.
(02:00):
But I think things seem toshift for you with a formative
experience you had Well in thirdgrade, right With Mrs
Cradaville Cradaville.
Tara Rubin (02:10):
Miss Cradaville.
Robert Peterpual (02:10):
Miss Cradaville, I believe, who I did
try to track down to get aquote.
I don't know where she is, butI can't find her either.
Tara Rubin (02:17):
I can't find her either, I know.
Robert Peterpual (02:19):
Well, I love that you keep her alive and in
your heart right now, ininterviews, you know, by just
bringing her up, can you kind oftake us through that impactful
moment, because I think teachersare so valuable in forming our
journeys.
Tara Rubin (02:31):
Yes, miss Cradaville was probably around 22.
You know we were her firstclass and this was in St Louis,
missouri, and you know it wasthe 1960s.
She was so progressive shewould she brought in a rug and
rolled it out and we would pushthe desk aside and sit on the
(02:52):
floor.
And that doesn't sound veryprogressive now, but in those
days, like everything was somuch more rigid in the public
school system and she loved thetheater, and so she showed us
what was kind of like.
I'm taking you on a historylesson.
Robert Peterpual (03:06):
I love it.
I'm there, I'm along to theright.
Tara Rubin (03:10):
She showed us this film strip about the Globe
Theater and like do you justlove that idea of this young
teacher showing third graderswho you know are running around
with paper airplanes and stuffin St Louis Missouri, like a
film strip about Shakespeare,and, and I loved it.
And then she read us parts ofJulius Caesar.
(03:32):
And.
I really loved that too.
And so I went to the schoollibrary and I said like, like I
heard about this guy Shakespeare, and I wondered if I could get
some books.
And the librarian said, well,we don't think you should
probably, you know, getShakespeare.
But there were these retoldShakespeare tales by a woman
(03:52):
named Marcia Chute and I guessshe did a lot of the classics
and she kind of retold them sothat children.
So I read all of those, I readlike all, and there's basically
a summary and then of the storyand then there'd be like little
excerpts that were explicated,and so that really Miss
Credoville sang to us.
Oh, you know, her sisterappeared at the St Louis Munia
(04:16):
Opera as child performers, wow,and yeah, she was an amazing
teacher.
So like that definitely was theopen door for me.
That's so special.
Robert Peterpual (04:25):
I love that story.
I picture you almost as alittle Matilda you know her
going to the library and likeyou've read all these already,
or Belle even, but I'll read ittwice.
I think that's such a beautifulstory.
Tara Rubin (04:39):
Yes, I was in the library club in junior high
school so like you kind of get asense of like what my
background was.
Robert Peterpual (04:45):
There's no place like the library.
Libraries are magic.
I think so too.
Tara Rubin (04:49):
I think that's one of my favorite little streets in
the city by Brian Park.
Robert Peterpual (04:53):
I think it's library way If you haven't been
down it check it out.
There's quotes from acclaimedauthors on the ground you might
trip.
I've definitely stumbledreading them a couple of times,
but it's worth the stumble, aswe, I guess, stumble on your
journey.
Do you remember when you firstlearned what a casting director
did?
Tara Rubin (05:12):
Yes, it was when I I moved to New York and so I had
studied theater in college fortwo years and I thought, oh, I
don't know, this is really rightfor me.
I might not be very good at itand I, you know, I maybe
temperamentally I'm not suitedto be a performer, I'm not sure.
(05:33):
So I ended up transferring tothe liberal arts college at
Boston University and some mydegrees in English literature,
and so I missed, like the onlypart of the theater training
that I got was like lying on thefloor, breathing, you know, or
elementary acting, speechexercises the first two years,
(05:57):
dramatic literature, which wasgreat.
So then I came to the library.
So then I came to New York, notsure what I wanted to do, but
just knowing that I wanted tolive in New York.
And after a couple of years oftrying different things I kept
getting drawn back to thetheater and so I started taking
an acting class at the HB studioand and so I kind of got drawn
(06:20):
back into it.
And then I went to work for aproducer.
So when I was working for theproducers I mean they knew that
casting directors were employedto cast, but I didn't exactly I
didn't really know much moreabout it than that.
I certainly hadn't had enoughlike professional auditions to
have met any.
So when I was working on thisBroadway play it was called
(06:46):
Execution of Justice by EmilyMann, I met these two men named
Jeffrey Johnson and Vincent Lyft, who were kind of like the
legendary Johnson Lyft castingof the 70s, 80s, 90s and I loved
working with them and theyalways they treated me like one
(07:09):
of them, like, not like anassistant, and I liked that.
And so when the play closed andMr Osterman closed up his office
in New York and moved toConnecticut, I went to work for
Johnson Lyft.
Robert Peterpual (07:25):
And that's when you first started working
on Phantom.
I believe right.
Tara Rubin (07:27):
Yes Phantom.
I worked on that from the verybeginning, from the first day of
auditions, and they werecasting.
The very first year that I wasthere, my very first day of work
, I was setting up auditions forthe original company of laymans
.
Robert Peterpual (07:46):
Iconic See iconic.
I said icon.
Tara Rubin (07:49):
And we're still casting it today.
Robert Peterpual (07:50):
That is incredible.
Tara Rubin (07:51):
Makes me very happy.
Robert Peterpual (07:53):
Well, it also makes me happy that you had some
acting training.
I know you laughed it off alittle bit, but the training you
had is actually great just forlife in general breathing and
speaking to people and all thatwonderful juicy stuff.
But I think if we could all dothat in this business, just try
on different hats.
That's why I love being areader as an actor, because
you're behind the table and youkind of are doing what you love
(08:14):
but there's less pressure andyou sort of see that it's really
not always about you.
There's just so many movingparts.
So I like that you have thatexperience.
Tara Rubin (08:23):
I think what you just said is so true about it
not being about you, and I thinkthat actors have a tendency to
understandably, kind of try tograsp at a very specific reason
why they were or weren't cast.
And there's no such thing in away.
(08:45):
I mean, obviously sometimespeople can't really evoke the
time and place that they don't,they don't have access to the
things that that character needsto have.
Maybe then it's obvious, but itdoesn't really have it.
It doesn't have anything to dowith like cracking on a note or
(09:07):
forgetting a line or droppingyour sides or stumbling through
a couple of lines.
We know that you're auditioning, we know that we're not in
performance, so we can let a lotof that go, and I hope that
actors learn to understand thata little bit as they move in
(09:31):
through their careers.
Robert Peterpual (09:33):
And I think sometimes what you correct me if
I'm wrong with those quoteunquote, imperfect moments are
what actually get you thecallback or the job, dropping
your sides.
They're like, oh, the characterwould totally do that, or in a
zoom.
You know, something like anotification just went off on my
computer somehow, even thoughmy sound is plugged into the
headphones and it snaps you backinto the present, a lot of
these things.
(09:53):
So they can be little gifts, Ithink.
Tara Rubin (09:56):
I agree, and I think sometimes, when, when an actor
kind of goes up on a line, itoften especially in an audition
it's often because they're sodeeply in that moment and they
haven't lived there yet, becausethey haven't gone to the
rehearsal process, and so it'slike they just arrived in a new
(10:16):
place and they're looking aroundand they can't, and so it's
usually because of some kind oflike deep connection, more than
it is a metal thing, I think.
Robert Peterpual (10:26):
Yeah, I was self taping last night and my
neighbors upstairs were stompingaround and there's the old me
pardon me, that's thinking I'mgonna start over, but then I'm
thinking, no, he's, he's in anapartment.
This might be the neighbors inthe seat.
It's just like you know.
It's the environment.
Go with it.
See what happens to, I guess.
See what happens and fastforward a bit in your journey.
When you started your companyTara Rubin Casting I don't need
(10:48):
to tell you what it's called Didyou have a specific intention
on the type of casting companyyou wanted to be?
I'm not sure.
No, I'm not sure.
Tara Rubin (10:59):
I wish I could say that I did have a specific
intention.
I knew I was at a place where Ihad been in the same job for 15
years and so I needed to seewhat challenged myself.
Is this the most I can do?
(11:20):
Is there something else that Ican do?
That's the most I can do.
That was one motivation.
As far as the ethos of thecompany, I wish I could say that
I had a mission and I reallydidn't.
I just was immediately reallyluckily so busy that I just kind
(11:46):
of did it the way I did it.
I did have a lot of ethosthings from Johnson Lyft that I
brought with me.
They were always tremendouslygracious to actors.
I thought and appreciated them.
I don't think they would havesaid this, but they were truly a
(12:09):
team.
I was always included atopening nights and dinners.
They were very inclusive of thewhole group and so those things
I just kind of naturallybrought with me.
I didn't really think about it.
I was lucky that I really knew.
Robert Peterpual (12:29):
Yeah, it's similar to acting right.
It's like you don't want to puton things that you already have
.
You're just bringing naturallyyourself to it.
And when I think of you all, Ithink of not just actor first
but, I guess, human first.
It's a very human first office,which is great because we're
all human.
Sometimes being human is one ofthe hardest things to do in
life.
But New Slash, we are that.
(12:50):
So just be I know.
So this is my morning ramble.
Tara Rubin (12:54):
I would say that in the early days I did know that I
wanted us to be an office thatcan make it happen.
And so if someone called at 6PM and said we have to change
the schedule for tomorrow, thedirector can't be there, tany
has to come at noon, or thedirector has to has a doctor
(13:18):
appointment, so she's cancelingwhatever it is that we would
accommodate and that we would beable to roll with that and even
kind of at our own expense, butthat we would do that and that
was important to me.
And then I also I didn't and Ididn't realize this until like a
(13:40):
few years in but I I didn't doit like a man, like I didn't try
to be other than who I was, andI think that that was helpful
in some cases and maybe not sohelpful in others.
You know, there were certainclients who who really responded
(14:00):
to the way I worked.
And then there were others,like you know, you don't really
want to see I'm a sure woman cry, but like sometimes I did and I
would.
It would be embarrassing, likeeither because I was so moved by
an audition or because I wasupset or whatever, and and I
worked against that for a whileand then about five years ago I
(14:24):
realized, like, for women inthis business, that's our added
value, the fact that we are soclose to our most many women are
so close to our feelings thatwe that we're we're eight, we
have that access, we have thatemotional intelligence.
Like you talked about reading aroom and being able to walk in
(14:46):
and kind of understand thepersonalities and and women are
often like hosting things, andso that's a real quality.
And in casting, introducingpeople, making sure people are
accommodated, that they theyneed to take a break, they need
to have a coffee, you know thosekinds of things.
(15:08):
And but particularly like the,I was always told like you're
too emotional, you're overlysensitive and like, and then
about five years ago I thought,right, I am.
I do take it too personally, andthat's my, that's my added
value.
Robert Peterpual (15:25):
You know I love that.
That's your superpower, terry.
We haven't taken it personally.
I think that's so cool.
I really do.
I love that.
And I was talking maybe I'llcut this out because I don't
have the data to back it up butI was talking to a friend in
casting and she was saying I wasjust trying to pick people's
brains about questions to askyou that maybe you don't always
get asked, and she thought askher something about being a
(15:48):
woman in this business.
Do you find it interesting thatit feels again, I don't have
the data, but it feels like mostsuccessful casting directors
are women.
It sort of feels like that'sone area of the industry that is
predominantly women.
So I think you maybe justtalked about why, but I don't
know if that's true.
Tara Rubin (16:07):
Well, I mean, yes, there are.
I think part of it is historicand I don't have a lot of data
to back this up either, but I'mpretty sure this is true and
that's because in the old days,you know, like in the 40s, 50s,
60s, the cast there weren'tindependent casting directors,
it was like the job of somebodyin David Merrick's office.
(16:29):
Jeffrey Johnson, my old boss,was David Merrick's casting
director for a while, and so itwas kind of like the girl's job,
you know, and she had a filefolder in her desk drawer with
some pictures and resumes in itand the agents would go to the
(16:50):
offices of the producers and say, you know, hey, what do you
have for my client, robert PeterFall?
Like he's back from his tour.
Like you know he's really Ihear you've got this title that
you're about to work on let'sgive him a shot.
So casting was like the woman's, it was like the girl's job,
(17:13):
and then I think it developedfrom there.
Robert Peterpual (17:15):
And then it was claimed, sort of like how
you claimed again I love thatidea of taking it personally and
using all of that in the roomto make everybody feel
comfortable and hopefully theother side is using it too to do
their job, and then it's justone big, open, human room, which
is great, you know, but youcan't give from an empty mug.
I'll say, since we're drinkingcoffee this morning, do you have
any self care practices as acreative that you can share with
(17:39):
us that you think might behelpful for all creatives in
general, especially with yourjob, which I feel like is such
long and just unexpected hours?
Tara Rubin (17:49):
It is, and I think casting directors have in the
last few years begun to, youknow, try to approach their work
with a little bit more of asense of their own worth in the
process and their and keepingself care in mind.
(18:13):
I couldn't even really say itright Just now.
I could barely get it.
I don't come from a generationof women who really thought
about self care like we just didour lives, you know.
But I do take, you know,personal health seriously, and
so I think all of that is goodand I think that the generation
(18:35):
that's coming up will do areally good job of trying to
keep those principles, you know,part of their casting practice
and understanding when they haveto, like, say we can't do that,
you know.
Understanding when they say likeI need a week off, and things
(18:56):
like that.
I think that that will be agreat improvement for this
generation that the millennialsin the next group will bring to
our world.
Robert Peterpual (19:08):
Yeah, you know , I almost wish there was a
union trained professional onevery set, in every rehearsal,
in the casting room, justworking with anyone on the
project to I don't know, maybeit's more of a therapist talk to
them and make sure they'retaking care of themselves or
kind of advocate for them andsaying, hey, they actually went
over the 10 hours yesterday.
Can they go home and see theirkids and we can get this PA to
(19:28):
fill in or whatever it is.
So I think that's maybesomething we'll incorporate down
the line.
Maybe we can plan it right now.
Tara Rubin (19:35):
We're taking steps.
You know it's really pushing aboulder up a hill in some ways,
and it's being done.
You know, I think in the regions, rehearsal in some of the
regional theaters, the rehearsalhours have been reduced and I
(19:58):
think I hope people are payingattention.
You know, I was talking tosomebody last night and I was
saying like I think the best waywe can make progress in a lot
of these issues is for mygeneration to constantly be
(20:18):
reminded, for people to keeptapping on our shoulders and
saying you have to remember thehuman, you have to remember that
this is a very important issueand it's you know don't roll
your eyes at this, tara Likethis is key, and the young
people in my office do that forme, and then I need to remind
(20:40):
them that, yes, thank you forreminding me that we need to
make these changes and that someof the pillars of what we have
are there for a good reason.
That's for me to remind you thatthere's a certain amount of
rigor that we have to maintainin order to keep art flowing and
(21:03):
creating, and so I feel likeI'm so fortunate that I can do
that with the people on my team.
You know that they can say youknow, when there are
controversies about casting andauthenticity and casting, that
like we are really talking aboutit and I'm really listening to
(21:24):
them.
You know, and you knowsometimes I'm the most radical
one in the group.
You know it's funny andsometimes I'm blind to like
something that I should haveseen.
So it's like anintergenerational approach to
everything is usually a prettygood idea, isn't it?
Robert Peterpual (21:44):
Yeah, I think walking in people's shoes too
would be really helpful ifpeople could sit in the room
with you all, if you filmed onecasting session, and they could
just see how many hours you'reputting in to every line, every
role, to each word you put in abreakdown.
My wife, I like to say she castswords, she works for Pearson,
so she's putting togetherstandardized tests which can be
seen.
(22:04):
As you know the enemy, and shewas a teacher so she totally
understands that.
But just watching how manyhours she puts into every word
of every passage they choose,each state has different
requirements for what words youcan use, what representation is
needed.
I think it's a similar case inthat if we all just took a step
back and realized how much workis going into all of this,
(22:26):
there'd be more understanding, Ithink, of the humanness of it
all.
But you know, while I have youhere, I'd love to roll through
the casting process briefly forlisteners and then park on some
specifics along the way.
Again, I have so many questions.
Would you mind sort of justbriefly taking us through the
overview of your workflow on anyproject?
Tara Rubin (22:47):
Sure, so let's just take an original Broadway show,
which usually, by the time it'scoming to Broadway, we've done a
reading and a workshop andpossibly a regional production.
So the journey is much longerthan it used to be, you know.
But for Broadway we would alwaysstart with the equity required
(23:10):
calls, which are requiredthrough an agreement with the
producers Broadway League andthe actors' equity union, and so
we would have equity principalauditions, equity chorus calls,
equity dance calls.
Then oftentimes that's followedby, like some preliminary
(23:31):
auditions.
Sometimes they take place withassociate directors, associate
choreographers, someone from amusic team, and those are always
like really fun for me becauseI love getting to know the
associates, because chances are,if the show is successful,
they're the people that we'll beworking with when we cast the
(23:53):
replacements and maybe thenational tour and things like
that.
So our ongoing relationshipwith them is gonna be important
to our efficacy and our just thequality of the experience, and
so that's when we might.
(24:14):
People we've seen in showcases,people we've heard about people
that have been submittedthrough agents, but we don't
really know them.
So then we take a period ofseeing those people, recalling
people from the open calls, andthen usually the director will
show up for maybe a week or twoweeks and then we start to like
(24:36):
refine the process.
It's kind of like taking alarge group and, step by step,
finding the people who are themost appropriate for telling the
story.
You know who seem like thedenizens of the world that we're
creating.
Robert Peterpual (24:53):
Oh, good word yeah.
Tara Rubin (24:55):
And you like it changes.
You know, like, if you're avisual person, it's sort of like
the color values, like are theyreally vivid and bold or are
they a little more muted, or arethey almost water, like, you
know, watercoloring, yeah, sothat I'm always really
(25:18):
appreciative of that associatephase, because that's where I
begin to see like, oh, you know,I might not have been quite,
you know, on the right path withthis, and everybody is saying
that it has to be this, but I'mthinking maybe let's just add a
few people who bring thisquality to it and see if that
(25:38):
might, you know, be exciting andalso work.
You know so that.
And then the director comes,and then it's sort of like the
clouds are lifted and thedirector is there and you see
what she had in mind and you,you know that's, and obviously
the associates have beenrepresenting that.
(25:59):
But then you get the.
You know, then it's like you'redealing with the God of it, all
right, but you begin to see like, oh, the choreography is really
telling the story and thevision is so specific.
And then the last two days orthree days usually, the
producers come and they, youknow, they get to see the, and
(26:24):
then they get to see the finalcandidates and then there's a
discussion about you know whowill be the final cast.
And I always say it takes asmuch time as you have.
You know, like if you only havetwo weeks, like you do it in
two weeks, if you have a year,we'll use the whole year.
You know it just ends on.
Robert Peterpual (26:44):
It's like self-taping yeah.
Tara Rubin (26:46):
Yes, yeah, definitely.
Robert Peterpual (26:49):
Well, thank you for taking us through that.
First of all, it's sofascinating.
Tara Rubin (26:52):
That's an overview and sometimes it's a little
different.
And you know, sometimes by thetime we get to Broadway we have
a lot of our cast, because we'vedone the workshop and we've
done the regional production,and maybe somebody in the
regional production can't do itbecause she's got a television
series now and so we have toplace that person and then
(27:14):
you're fine.
That's a kind of differentassignment because you've
already created the world andyou're going to find somebody
who belongs there, you know.
Yeah.
So you know, but that's theoverview.
Robert Peterpual (27:27):
It's so cool.
You're like detectives in yourown right and I think actors are
as well.
On a different end, andsomething as an actor I'm
fascinated by I mentioned thisearlier before we started
recording, I think are thebreakdowns like the ones we see
on Casting Network shout out.
I know casting is on our sideand pulling out any kind of
golden nuggets of informationthey have or changing it as
(27:50):
things develop.
Do you have any suggestions foractors on how to break down a
breakdown and really downloadthat into their performance?
Tara Rubin (28:00):
Such a good question and honestly I don't think
anyone's ever asked me thatbefore.
I have two different kind ofconflicting ideas about it.
Robert Peterpual (28:11):
One I let's talk about both.
Tara Rubin (28:13):
Yeah, one, it kind of related to Udahagen, and she
always advised that you blackout any descriptions of the
character like that.
Come in the play and black outand just concentrate on the
language.
And so to a certain extent,sometimes, when, well, we don't
(28:37):
always write the breakdowns,oftentimes like the writer will
or somebody on the writer's teamwill, but so sometimes I like
that, I like the idea of itbeing like you know the gender.
If the race is essential to thecharacter, then what the race
(28:59):
would be, this race isn'tessential, then we designate
that.
Maybe it's age appropriate, isit important?
You know just all the thingsthat are important to like tell
the story as this character.
And then, you know, sometimes Ilike to give as little as
(29:20):
possible and just see what theactors bring to it, the actors
bring to it and especially ifit's Well, it's like.
But then sometimes, thensometimes we've been in
situations where we're havingdifficulty casting a part and
(29:41):
we're bringing in brilliantactors who are just like not
connecting with the material.
And this happened a few yearsago where the director said, can
I see the breakdown Like, whatare we sending these women?
And she revised it and itreally made a difference.
You know, just like what wewere providing to the artists
(30:02):
prior to their work on thematerial was really important
and that editing process of whatwe were giving out really made
a difference in the room.
So I don't know if I've exactlyanswered the question, but it's
like I would say that theinformation in the breakdown is
(30:26):
deliberate, you know.
So if it's really sketchy, knowthat, know that.
Like okay, so they must bepretty open to like and they're
asking me to come in so I canlook at myself and look at, you
know, my imagination for thischaracter and see what I can
create.
And oftentimes there thebreakdowns have like some
(30:50):
emotional qualities that I thinkare really helpful for actors
to look at.
So so, yeah, I would just, Iwould just suggest that you read
it carefully, that's reallyhelpful.
Robert Peterpual (31:02):
That's a really helpful tip the length of
the breakdown to.
If it's shorter, you can assumemaybe they're a bit more open.
There's not as much there, sortof take what you find on the
page and also remind yourself, Iguess, how you're presenting
yourself to casting to, becausethat's why they're calling you
in.
So all that is maybe stuff youdon't need to put on, because
that's sort of the essence thatyou're giving out, so you can
(31:24):
maybe cross out the words thatmatch with that and just assume
you have it.
That's cool.
No, that was very helpful,thank you.
I appreciate that.
Everybody jot down the notes athome.
Tara Rubin (31:34):
Well, I also think, you know you said putting it on
and there is sometimes, I think,a tendency for actors to add
things to the character or addthings to the scene when they
come into audition, and I thinkit's an effort to kind of share
a creativity of theirs.
(31:55):
You know, like I can do thisdialect, so I'm going to give
this character a dialect, or I'mgoing to give her a tick or
chewing gum, because I thinkshe's not smart, you know, or
like any of those kind ofpejorative, any of those kind
Like yeah, I guess like, and thefact is like they're not often
(32:18):
that helpful.
Yeah, because it's like let'sjust explore the text, let's
just explore what you thinkabout this character and this
text that's given, and maybe thedirector will say like oh, by
the way, she's from you know.
Oh, by the way, she's fromAlabama.
It's like we should have toldher that we didn't know.
(32:40):
You know so, but most of thetime I really feel like sticking
to the text for that firstaudition is helpful, like we
don't need a funny walk or a,unless it's specified, of course
, in the instructions, becausewhat they end up doing is kind
(33:02):
of clouding you rather thanrevealing you.
You know like we want to getclose to what you're you and
what you're going to bring toour storytelling, and so, yeah,
so I kind of feel like the moreof you you bring, the more
exciting it is for the peoplebehind the table.
Robert Peterpual (33:24):
Yes, and sort of starting at the ground level.
And this reminds me too.
You know I understand it, but Ithink when directors and
casting directors say make achoice, it can be a little bit
ambiguous, especially for peoplejust starting out, and there's
not really a class describingthat.
And I understand it can be aplethora of things.
But for you, what does thatmean?
(33:45):
Is that more so a strongperspective on the character?
Is that sort of beat by beat?
Do you have anything in mindwhen you hear the word make a
choice?
Tara Rubin (33:55):
Yeah, I think of it more as like have an idea about
the scene and about thecharacter and the relationships
and the given circumstances, andlike have ideas about those
things and bring them to thematerial Like they should be
relevant.
I don't mean that like if it's,you know, a contemporary piece
(34:17):
and you decide, oh, my idea isthat it's medieval, like that.
I just mean an idea about thelevel of is it easy to have this
conversation?
Is it easy for this characterto say these things?
What does it cost me to saythese things?
So, if we think about it, not somuch as making a choice but
(34:44):
having it working through thetext and working through the
script, and you know, one thingI think that especially early
career artists don't understandis that there is an expectation
that you've really done that,that you've really thought about
it.
I think sometimes actorsbelieve, oh, I want to be sort
(35:07):
of a blank slate, so if I'mgiven notes or I'm given
adjustments, I'll be able to dothem.
Yes, that's important, but itis important to present a point
of view about it and it could bea little off or it could be a
little wrong, but in thosedecisions that you make about it
(35:27):
about what you're presenting inthose ideas.
That gives us a chance to seeyour technique, to see your
imagination at work.
So a choice seems a littlearbitrary, almost, or like it's
(35:48):
disconnected, but it's really.
The choice is to connect you.
You make a choice that willshow it, that will help you
connect to the material.
Robert Peterpual (35:57):
Yes, and I feel like in any life, you know,
I could have been a cop, youcould have been a librarian.
So, even if you don'tnecessarily connect to the role
or what they're doing, if you'rebringing yourself and shining,
you know yourself through thetext.
I think everything you'resaying will help with that.
It's just, it's more aboutmaking choices, which we do
every day.
News flash.
Tara Rubin (36:18):
And what's important , like you know, and obviously
you know the elements of dramaare at play, like, the more
important it is, the moreexciting it is for us.
You know, the higher the stakesfor the situation, the more
tension and suspense andexcitement we'll have on art as
(36:40):
a viewer.
So going big is not always abad idea if it's, if it's, you
know, like if, if it's full, bigand full.
Robert Peterpual (36:52):
Big and full Well, speaking of big and full
and not just about my breakfastwalking into the room in a big
and full way, I'm veryinterested in this.
In recent years I just wasalways walking in and kind of
being myself and then startingthe audition and not carrying on
too much.
Although I love talking topeople, I think it's become a
(37:13):
thing that people talk about nowand everyone it's subjective
has a different view of how theywant people to walk into the
room.
What's yours?
Do you like people to kind of Ithink I read you don't
necessarily love when someone'scoming in character, quote
unquote but do you like it tojust be kind of snappy and not
really have a lot of chit chatand just do what you're there to
do?
What's your vibe?
Tara Rubin (37:32):
Well, it kind of goes back to what you said
earlier about reading the room.
There are directors who are alittle bit chatty and like to
put you at ease.
If that's happening, go withthat.
If the director is like oh, howare you today?
What about the rain?
What about those mats, whateverit is?
(37:55):
I hope you'll be able to kindof naturally respond to that If
there's a simple introduction Iwould use.
Sometimes there's so many peopleat the table that I just say
here's our creative team, allhere for you today, here's our
accompanist, go over and say no,and so there's not a lot of
(38:19):
anything preliminary to do.
So I think, sadly, we kind ofhave to meet somewhere.
You know, and there are so manymore of us usually than there
are of you.
If I'm screening, come in,let's just do it.
(38:42):
But you kind of have to assume,especially early on in your
career, that we don't reallyknow you yet.
So everything we know about youis what's going to happen in
the room that day.
You know what I mean.
So I think it's a little bitlike going a little bit more on
(39:07):
the formal side than the kind ofcasual side is not a bad idea,
and maybe that's a generationalthing, because I'm, you know,
like maybe, but it is a.
I mean, we don't know eachother that well yet.
So let's just that's the truth.
Robert Peterpual (39:26):
That's the truth of it is that we're, we'll
get, we'll know each otherbetter after your audition yes,
and in the room and then, Iguess, in the hallway too, for
my favorite thing is when allthe actors turn and see the
casting director going to thebathroom.
Then they come back andeveryone's like that's the
casting director, they left theroom and everyone's trying to
like look like the care, I don'tknow.
(39:47):
I just think we're all suchfunny people, which I love.
There's a lot of humor in it,unspoken humor.
You know, what's hard, I guess,in this vein is that everyone
out there wants to connect withyou all and leave a good
impression, but I thinksometimes people do forget to be
human, sort of like what we'retouching on.
Do you have a favorite firstimpression story from over the
years about an audition?
Tara Rubin (40:09):
When we were casting the original company of Mamma
Mia, it was in, I guess, 2001.
And it was when everybodyfinally had a cell phone.
So people, you know, were like,remember, cell phones were
constantly going off.
I mean, they still do, but Ithink it was worse back then
because people like, just theyweren't as like ingrained in our
(40:31):
lives.
And Judy Kay came into auditionand she, her phone rang and she
said to us, like, went over toher handbag, pulled out her
phone, she said I can't talk toyou right now.
I'm in an audition.
Of course, like, if anyone elsein the world did that, we would
(40:56):
be like, oh my God, you know,like, like, how can we tell her
that?
You know she can't really dothat?
That's like kind of a reallycool thing to do and of course
it was Judy Kay and she was likesorry, let's start over.
Robert Peterpual (41:09):
Like I think that's a wonderful example of
just coming into the room asyourself, because if that's who
you are, then you're showing whoyou are and it works for you.
Not don't have your, don't havepeople call you when you're in
the room everyone.
But if it happens and that'syou know who you are and you're
able to answer it's.
It's funny, because who woulddo that?
So I think that's a that's agreat example of that.
(41:29):
You know, while we're in theroom, I'm sure you witnessed a
lot of actors, maybe startingout and beyond.
It happens to everybody kind ofgetting in their own way or
getting in their own head.
Do you have any thoughts onthis or examples of how you've
been able to kind of take peopleout of it in the moment and
then have maybe a successfulaudition that leads to booking
(41:52):
or not, or just having a goodimpression?
Tara Rubin (41:55):
Well, it seems like it usually happens when someone
is thinking about himselfinstead of the character, or the
character or instead of thework.
And so, if you can, kind of,and you're not acting, you know,
if you, if you're not actingfor yourself, your storytelling
(42:18):
you're doing, you know it's,there's another person there,
and so the degree to which youcan take that step of like this
isn't about me in this moment,right now, which I realize
there's a lot to ask, becauseactually I know it is about you
in that moment, right then.
Right then, you know, but whenthe focus is on the self rather
(42:43):
than the character or on thetext, that's when I think people
have a tendency to get in theirown way.
Robert Peterpual (42:50):
Yeah, and you all, obviously behind the table,
know that there will becostumes, there will be a set,
they will be in this environment.
So as much as you can sort ofevoke that in the room and focus
on that and see where you are,there's all these little, I
guess, tangible tricks that canhelp you stay out of your head,
and I know we're running out oftime and slipping away.
Ah, I know you get asked aboutaudition tips all the time and
(43:14):
what advice you give, and I lovethe advice you've given.
I've read so many articles andlistened to you and I think it's
all marvelous.
At the same time, this podcastaims to give very actionable
advice.
So I do have to ask youquestions on auditioning
specifically, and I thought afun way to do it might be a
little flash round where I sharea topic or, I guess, a couple
words and you just share backthe first thing that pops into
(43:36):
your head as a tip form.
Does that make sense?
Tara Rubin (43:40):
I'll try.
Robert Peterpual (43:41):
Okay, I'll add in some cheesy music.
So this is fun.
All right, whenever you'reready.
Tara Rubin (43:46):
I'm ready.
Robert Peterpual (43:47):
Okay, first up audition etiquette.
Tara Rubin (43:51):
Be polite.
Robert Peterpual (43:54):
Actors dressing the part.
Tara Rubin (43:58):
Suggestion maybe, but no need for costume.
Robert Peterpual (44:02):
Okay, returns my cop uniform.
I'm just kidding, dress towardit.
Tara Rubin (44:05):
Dress toward it.
Dress toward the part.
Robert Peterpual (44:09):
I love that being completely off book.
Tara Rubin (44:14):
Not necessary, but helpful.
Robert Peterpual (44:18):
Doing a cold reading.
Tara Rubin (44:21):
I don't understand why they occur.
Robert Peterpual (44:26):
Same.
We all want to be warm,stopping and starting a scene or
song over in the room.
Tara Rubin (44:34):
Unnecessary.
Yes.
Robert Peterpual (44:37):
Ask in questions about the material.
Tara Rubin (44:41):
Try to ask them before you come in the room.
Robert Peterpual (44:46):
Specific self-tape tip.
Tara Rubin (44:49):
Try to do something significant early in the tape,
something that's significant andpart of the scene, not
something extraneous to thescene.
But go big early on.
Robert Peterpual (45:09):
Go big and full.
I think a lot of actors want tohave that arc and they forget
that the beginning has to startsomewhere too.
Maybe it's different from theend, but that's a helpful one.
Okay, that was kind of it.
Thank you for doing this.
That was fun.
Well, as far as social mediagoes, we need to bring this a
bit into the conversation,because it does play a role in
(45:30):
today's entertainment world.
Do you think actors startingout should be active on social
media and use it as a tool toshowcase them?
I feel like it's almost adigital business card, or does
that not really matter to you?
Tara Rubin (45:44):
It's helpful, as long as actors understand that
everything they put on socialmedia will never go away.
We should make sure that it isa calling, that you want what
you put up to be a calling card.
(46:06):
If you are thinking about yoursocial media as a calling card
for your career as an actor,then that's a way of approaching
social media.
Maybe you don't want to putpictures of yourself on the
beach and that, or maybe you do,just depending on your
(46:27):
personality and the way you lookat your career.
I don't mean that it should belike a website necessarily, but
there's certain freedom andpeople are capturing moments and
everything.
I think it's anothergenerational thing.
I think a lot of people look atactors' social media.
I think it is important and Ithink it should be done with
(47:00):
some consideration.
Robert Peterpual (47:02):
I agree.
I also want to say I love theway your office has begun to use
social media, because I thinkrecently you started posting the
week's notices or the auditionscoming up.
Please don't stop doing that,it's so helpful.
Tara Rubin (47:14):
Yeah, that was.
Frankie Ramirez had that ideabecause we were going to these
equity principle auditions andeight people would come in
during the whole day.
Come on, come in, let us seeyou.
Robert Peterpual (47:29):
Yeah, it's so helpful and wonderful.
So are you.
Before we roll out, I wouldlove if we could end on an
additional inspiring note,because this has all been
inspiring for our listeners.
I'd love to know about adviceyou've both given and gotten, so
a given and a gotten.
Just what's the best piece ofadvice you've gotten about the
(47:52):
entertainment industry andnavigating it?
Tara Rubin (47:56):
To tell the truth.
When situations come up wherethis actor is auditioning for
this role, but then he's alsoauditioning for this role, and
how do we handle that?
Tell everybody everything thatthey need to know.
I guess nowadays it's calledbeing transparent, but be honest
(48:23):
, be truthful.
Robert Peterpual (48:25):
I think that's wonderful advice for life in
general.
You can't go wrong with thetruth and at the end of the day,
even if it gets you in hotwater, at least you know that
you told the truth and you'renot going to wake up in the
middle of the night thinking Ilied.
It's important for actors too,in scenes.
Be honest.
Tara Rubin (48:40):
And I think we have this idea about the
entertainment business and it'slike run by people who are
duplicitous and conniving.
And so can we be humanistic inthat world or will we be
trampled?
And the fact is that when I gotthat advice, I thought, oh yeah
(49:05):
, you can just like, justdoesn't mean that you'll be
trampled by anyone.
You just told the truth and Isay tell people what they need
to know.
I don't need to tell everybodyeverything that I'm doing or
everything that you know, likeall the information I'm privy to
.
I don't need to share that witheveryone, but I need to share
what's important and relevant tothat particular situation.
Robert Peterpual (49:30):
Yes, I think that's an act of kindness and
vulnerability and that'ssomething I'm hoping we can
infuse more of in the industryis just being a human being kind
.
Sometimes it's not read asbeing genuine, unfortunately.
People think maybe you wantsomething, but that's okay,
that's not your problem howpeople read you.
Second, on the opposite side,what is the best piece of advice
(49:51):
you've given or can give topeople looking to consistently
work in this industry?
Tara Rubin (50:00):
It's difficult to hear, probably, but be patient.
It that patience is importantbecause careers will have peaks
and valleys and periods where ofdisappointment and frustration,
(50:23):
and the artist's life is adifficult one, but so rewarding
at the same time, and sopatience will guide you through
it.
Robert Peterpual (50:38):
I need a Tara Rubin ripoff calendar.
Tell Frankie to get that goingon social media, because these
quotes are filling me up andstarting my day on a good note.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, tara.
It was so fun You're amazing.
Tara Rubin (50:53):
You're such a great spirit yourself and your
questions.
Thank you it was fun to talkabout.
You know we talked about funtopics.
Robert Peterpual (51:00):
I'm glad I so appreciate your openness and I
do just want to say thank youagain so much for being a
positive presence in thisindustry.
It doesn't go unnoticed and weneed more people like you, so I
appreciate you all around.
Tara Rubin (51:15):
It is truly my pleasure.
I'm casting director Tara Rubinand this is how we roll.
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