Ultimate Self-Tape Audition Guide for Actors with Casting Director Erica A. Hart

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Casting Director Erica A. Hart joins How We Role to discuss self-tape auditions and the self-worth behind a successful one. From making strong choices to using props effectively, the kind-hearted and award-winning casting professional gives host Robert Peterpaul her ultimate guide to producing tapes that build relationships and get results.

ERICA A. HART, CSA, was born and raised in Washington, DC, and studied film and television at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. She started at ABC Primetime Casting and then moved to independent casting.  TV/Streaming: BLACK MIRROR (SEASON 6 US CASTING), A BLACK LADY SKETCH SHOW (SEASON 4), THAT DAMN MICHAEL CHE, JODIE, BUST DOWN, THE GIRLS ON THE BUS, THE EQUALIZER (SEASON 4 & SEASON 5) and SURVIVAL OF THE THICKEST (SEASON 2). Broadway: CHICKEN & BISCUITS, PASS OVER, DEATH OF A SALESMAN, JAJA'S AFRICAN HAIR BRAIDING. FILM (Selected): WE STRANGERS (SXSW), VEO VEO A FAMILY (TRIBECA), THE SURROGATE (SXSW), LAPSIS (SXSW), CUPIDS (TRIBECA), and NATIVES (SXSW). OFF-BROADWAY: HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF (NYTW), SATURDAY CHURCH (NYTW), SCARLETT DREAMS (MIDNIGHT THEATRICALS). Regional: EL COQUI (LONG WHARF THEATRE). MUSIC VIDEOS: FIGHT FOR YOU (H.E.R. - OSCAR WINNING SONG) and GET SOME (GHOSTED - PREMIERED AT SXSW). Erica is an Artios award winner, is on the Board of the Casting Society, a member of the TV Academy, and an educator at different colleges and universities. Website: www.hartcasting.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm casting director Erica A Hart, and this is how we
Roll.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
When it comes to working in entertainment,
there's a lot of hows, and theyall boil down to how we navigate
this wild industry.
While how we follow our dreamsis uncertain, how we roll along
the way is in our hands.
Welcome to how we Roll, apodcast for actors by Casting
Networks.
Hello friends, lately I've beenpondering how can I craft the

(00:37):
best self-tape audition possible.
To answer this question anduncover an ultimate approach to
self-tapes, I knew I had to callmy kind friend who has made it
her mission to uplift actors,and wow, did she come through on
this topic.
If you're like me, you're goingto want to share this with
every actor you know.

(00:57):
Today's guest is castingdirector Erica A Hart.
Erica A Hart fell in love withthe arts growing up as a dancer
in Washington DC.
Her interest in casting peakedwhen she studied film and
television at NYU.
From there, she cut her teethat ABC primetime casting and

(01:19):
then moved into the world ofindependent casting.
There Erica has made a markacross mediums.
Erika's TV and streamingcredits include Netflix's Black
Mirror and Survival of theThickest, max's A Black Lady
Sketch Show that Damn MichaelChe and the Girls on the Bus,
and Queen Latifah's hit theEqualizer on CBS.

(01:43):
On the big screen, erika hascast for films like we Strangers
, vovoa Family, the Surrogate,lapsus and Cupid's.
The beloved casting directorhas also lent her talents to
Broadway shows like Chicken andBiscuits, passover, death of a
Salesman and Jaja's African HairBraiding.
Oh, and she's worked on musicvideos like for hers

(02:06):
Oscar-winning song Fight For you.
Erica is an Ardeos Award winneron the board of the Casting
Society of America, a member ofthe Television Academy and an
all-around empowering educatorat various colleges,
universities and workshops.
To learn more, please visitheartcastingcom.
Here's how we roll withself-tapes starring casting

(02:35):
director Erica A Hart.
Today we have on an old pal ofmine who is a beloved casting
director of the stage and screen.
She does it all.
Welcome, my incredible friendErica Hart.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Hello, hello RPP, how are you?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I am so pumped to talk to you, as I already told
you multiple times, and I feellike I need to start just by
congratulating you not only oneverything, but the RDOs awards
more recently.
Thank you.
You produced and then you won.
I was so happy to see you thereshining.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Oh, thank you.
No, it's.
It's definitely a labor of loveto produce that show.
It's me, elizabeth Barrett,julie Tucker and Portia Black in
New York that are running theshow, and you know, it's just.
It's always beautiful to be incommunity with other casting
folk and agents and managers,and you were there, sir um, so
it's always, it's always a joyto be around.

(03:37):
Uh, you know love and communityand colleagues and everything
in between, and the icing on thecake is that I won that night
too.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
So it was a beautiful night, so well-deserved, the
love that I felt in that room.
I mean, I know over the yearshow much people love you and I
love you, but do you feel allthe love in this business that
people have for you Because,like people, really love you?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Your name is said and people are just beaming with
joy.
Oh, that's very sweet, no, justbeaming with joy, oh that's very
sweet, no, I think.
I think you know the love goesall the ways.
I think this business is is agreat business, but sometimes,
you know, things get a littletricky and I think leading with
kindness and leading withgenerosity can only go the right
way.
So it's, it's just alwayslovely to see all of my

(04:20):
colleagues shine and it wasamazing to see like the next
generation do their thing, likeit was just, it was just a
really great night to see thepassing of the torch of this
next generation come, come up,and I'm excited for all of my
colleagues, regardless of thegeneration.
But to see, to see that wasthat's really awesome.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Let me tell y'all listening at home, erica was not
just cheering people on andproducing the event, but she was
recording people's speeches forthem.
She was just bopping up doingall the things.
I mean you wear so many hats soI guess before you got to
wearing all these hats forcontext I'd love to start with.
Maybe you did it as a childgrowing up.
But I just have a few questionsabout kind of your Marvel

(04:56):
origin story of your life.
So to start on a sweeter notegrowing up in DC, I believe what
was sort of your waltz into thearts, which I'll say because I
think it might have been dance.
It was dance.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
That was my entry point.
So it wasn't a waltz, but itwas more of a of a tendu and a
shuffle step.
So it was.
You know, when you're littleyou take your ballet tap class.
So it was.
It was it was dance.
That was my introduction to thearts tab class.
So it was it was it was dance.
That was my introduction to thearts.
And then I was always in artscamp, you know where it be, like

(05:30):
arts and crafts or doing adance class or doing a play, but
I never, like was an actress,like that wasn't the thing that
called me.
It was dance and then film.
I got my first camera when Iwas nine and I started to be,
you know, the little niece orthe little cousin or the
daughter, with the camera justup in your face and doing things
like that.
And then I learned to edit andI edited, you know, my family

(05:53):
films or my sister's balletrecital or just little things
like that.
So that was really good, becausewhenever I was a kid it would
turn into a short film shoot andthey're kind of like yeah,
exactly no, my friend Joyce, wewould go over to her house and
we would make these like crazyimprov films where, like they're
probably in some basementsomewhere, but we would do that

(06:16):
like since elementary school,and then we would do it in high
school and it would just be.
It would just be really, reallyfun.
So that was kind of my, my tipinto the entertainment industry.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well, I guess progressing forward a little bit
, and it's always so much funand kind of weird to research
you in a way, but I've done itbefore because I've interviewed
you and just be reminded howimpressive you are.
You know, I think you were sortof cast as a casting director,
which is a corny way to put itin college.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
From what I read is that when you discovered your
love for casting, Exactly, youknow, my freshman year of film
school I went to NYU my freshmanyear a film friend of mine,
emily Harold, wanted to make afilm outside of the curriculum
our freshman year, and she wasvery adamant on everybody having
their own specific jobs.
So, like you were the producer,you only produced, you were the

(07:01):
writer, you only wrote.
And then we printed out a crewlist, crew list and she was the
director.
And the second to last thingwas casting director.
And because I had the dancebackground, I was like, well, I
know what an audition is.
So that means I know what acasting director is.
I had no idea, I'd never heardof that term or that job, but I,
because I knew of a littlepiece of it that meant for me
that I could do the bigger piece.
Um, and while everyone wasdoing, you know, being the best

(07:25):
writer or trying to be the bestdirector, I was in the corner
doing that thing and that thingwas casting, and nobody saw me
as a threat and they saw me asan asset.
So they said, oh, you did thatthing for that film, can you do
that thing for my film?
And this big binder full ofheadshots and resumes that I
would just carry around with me,and I cast all through college.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
So cool.
Also everyone at home.
I'm going to encourage you towhip out a journal and just
start writing down lines thatErica says, because you said
something just now that was likeI knew a little piece and so
there was the possibility Icould do the whole puzzle, which
I just I need a calendar of you.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's my, that's my, that's, that's the definition
of my career.
It's sort of just like, oh,especially if it's like a new
genre that I haven't done.
So it's like, oh, I haven'tcast an animated feature, but
I've cast a tv show, so thatmeans I can cast an animated
feature and that's, that's whatkind of happened.
So, yeah, I always, I alwaystalk about you know, you can't

(08:19):
necessarily stand in your way.
There are going to be manyother people that will stand in
your way, but you can't be theone to stand in your way.
You, you always have to be yourown.
Yes, person.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, Coming from love, I think, over fear of not
booking X, Y, Z, which is, youknow, it can be hard when, if
you're lucky enough to havemultiple auditions a week, you
know you can have multipleopportunities to choose the love
over fear and just choose yourlove.
You know let's talk about ityou can have multiple
opportunities to choose loveover fear and just choose your
love for the way you love to do.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah Well, I do want to talk about something.
I think you told me this storyand you've probably told it
since One of the times I firstmet you.
I don't know why I rememberthis, because most of the times
that we were together, we weredoing the upfronts at ABC and it
was like this fun backstagewild vibe, but I remember you
telling the story about how yougot started with John or that is
just really inspiring.

(09:07):
So would you mind sort ofrecounting that to listeners?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, refreshing me.
Yeah, no, I mean, this is.
This is the definition of notstating in your way.
So when I graduated college, Ihad already entered NBC casting
for a year, which was great,because I got to see what studio
network casting looked likewith Jen and Trey, and then I
also got to see what independentcasting looks like with Jen,
katya and Jessica, because theywere casting 30 Rock in house.

(09:31):
So it was really great.
A best of both worlds.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
So I had done a year, sorry to interrupt.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, no, no, that was 2011 to 2012.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think we were there at the same time I interned at
ABC when I was in college in2011.
What a good time.
Access Hollywood, baby, okay.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh, wow.
So yeah, you know getting offat 4750th Street every Monday
and Friday because that's whereI would be.
So I did a year of that andthen I did four years of casting
everybody's you know shorts.
So I had a casting resume, tosay the least.
And when I graduated fromcollege, a friend of mine saw on

(10:09):
our school's website that ABCwas looking for a full-time it
was temporary but a full-timepaid internship in their casting
department at ABC.
And my friend Joe was likeErica, you have to apply to this
.
But in big, bold letters itsaid do not apply unless you are
a full-time student.
And I had just graduated and Iwas a little different than I am

(10:29):
now.
I still follow rules, but I'mnot necessarily afraid of you
know certain things.
But I was very much of a rulefollower and I was afraid of
getting in trouble and so I waslike I can't apply.
I can't apply.
Like it says, I just graduated.
What are you talking about?
You're crazy.
He was like Erica, you have toapply.
We went back and forth and Iapplied, I just did it.
I was scared blank list.

(10:49):
And a couple of days later Iget a call from this guy named
Vince and he was like so I seethat you applied for the
internship but can't be anintern.
And I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'mso sorry, but do you want to be
an assistant?

(11:10):
And that job wasn't postedanywhere.
They knew someone that theywere probably going to hire, but
because of my resume, they sawsomething in me that fit better
for this position.
Again, that wasn't posted, thatnobody knew about.
Then the position that Icouldn't do technically.
So that's why I always say likeif I was the one to stand in my

(11:32):
own way, who knows what wouldhave happened?
But because I put myself outthere and I applied to a job
that maybe I shouldn't have, youknow, based on the fact that I
just graduated, but you neverknow what's on the other side of
the door.
You never know, like as an actor, okay, if you go in for that
EPA, if you go in for somethingor you submit that self-tape

(11:54):
that you feel like I don't thinkI'm right for this.
Like, okay, you might not be,but a casting director is
requesting your self-tape sothey might see something in you
that you don't see withinyourself, is requesting yourself
tape so they might seesomething in you that you don't
see within yourself and what isright, what is wrong.
This whole business is basedoff of opinion and let's just
say that maybe you know youdon't fit in that episode, or
you don't fit in that season, oryou don't fit in whatever.

(12:15):
That casting director isworking on something else that
you might fit, or they might bea friend with someone else that,
oh my God, you should see thisperson.
I know you're working on thisproject, so you never know
what's what's behind the tableand you never know what you
don't know.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah.
I love that Would you say.
It's sort of like boils down toyou for just following your gut
you know.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, we have it.
We have the instincts, we havethe gut, we have the little
spidey senses that go off.
You know, I always say, like,if you, if you're uncomfortable,
like if you know strangerdanger, if you're like I don't
know about the people, like then, like you, run away, you know,
because there's some crazy runfor the hills, go away.
But if you, if you feeluncomfortable because you are

(12:54):
afraid of failing, what doesthat mean?
You know, if you're afraid ofnot being perfect, that's
something that I always have tofight myself on because I am a
perfectionist.
That's something that I alwayshave to fight myself on because
I am a perfectionist.
And it's like, well, if I'm notgoing to be good at it, then
you know I might not try it.
But it's like, what is good atsomething?
You know, it's all so relative,so I just I just try to tell

(13:15):
myself this is like.
You know you, you got to justtry, you got to show up.
Showing up is 50 percent of thething.
And even if you're like, well,I am an actor I'm not interested
in, you know, working on set,or I'm not interested in working
on stage or whatever, you neverknow who's going to be on set
with you.
You know, if a friend's like,hey, I'm creating a short film,
do you want to just come on byand be a PA, or come on and hold

(13:39):
the boom mic or whatever, ifyou just say yes and you show up
for the day, you never knowwho's going to be on set.
That is like, hey, do you wantto do this thing?
Or hey, I'm sure that you're anactor, I have this project that
you would be perfect for.
You just never know what.
What other doors open when youwalk through one of them yes, oh
, there's another one.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Everybody take a shot .
No, write it down.
Yeah, I, I feel that so pouryourself a drink.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
What are?

Speaker 2 (14:06):
we drinking.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
What are we drinking?
A?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
mug of tea, a throat coat, but.
I literally booked a small rolein a film Because I did social
media for the production company.
So it's sort of what we'respeaking to.
It's just buildingrelationships, being a human.
And then you know we all haveeach other to look out for.
And I love that like positiveoutlook you have, because it
true, you never know wherelife's going to take you and why
.
Why are we agreeing with thesethings in our brain when our

(14:31):
brain's wrong?
About a million things a day?
You know, we have this narratorin our mind, who?
There's science behind this.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
If I'm if I can geek out for a second.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, I read this book called the science of
Storytelling, and now I fullythink I'm a scientist.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
But we have this narrator in our brain who
literally is making up reasonsfor why things happen.
And then we believe it.
And it's not necessarily thetruth.
The truth is in our hippocampusor something I don't know the
terms.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Actually Hippocampus is probably not the right term.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
That sounds great Thank you In our brain that we
can't access.
So there's a lot of experimentsbehind it.
It sort of goes back to whatyou're saying, which is just why
not believe the good thing, whynot believe in yourself?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I talk about this all day.
Now we're just getting intolike life.
But like you know, if you'reworried about stuff.
if you're worried aboutsomething that you haven't even
done yet, then you're going toworry twice.
You know it's like I'm worrying, I'm worrying, I'm worrying,
I'm worrying.
And then you get there, you'regoing to worry, worry, worry.
And then you're about to do thething, you're going to worry,
worry, worry.
It's like why are you worrying?
Just like maybe, yeah, youcould.
You know, if you jump off youcould fall, but you, maybe you

(15:49):
could fly.
You know it what you preach.
This is very much of thingsthat I wake up trying to tell
myself every day.
You know it's easier to saysomething to someone else than
to say it to yourself, but yeah,I try to, you know, push myself
and see what else, what elsecan happen, what else can happen
.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I love that.
It's a work in progress, but sois life.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
There's no completion to life until it until lights
out.
Until you're gone, see youlater.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah Well, I think all this advice is really
applicable to today's topic,which we should probably get
into Self tapes, the self done,done, done.
Grab your snorkel.
We're going to deep dive intothis to give our actor friends.
Sorry, this is so cheesyGuidance through self tape, step
by step.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
OK, so starting at the ground level here.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh, she's a guidance through creating their best
self-tape, step by step.
Okay, so starting at the groundlevel here, what is your basic
thought on the actual purpose orphilosophy of a self-tape?
Just to set the grass in thefield.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Oh, wow, the purpose and philosophy.
What do you?
What do you mean by the purposeand philosophy?
Robert Peter Paul.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Like for people that we just hear the word self-tape
and I think it's sort of obviouswhat it is.
It's a virtual audition, butwhat is, like, the main purpose
that people can distill it downto when they're sort of
spiraling or in the moment,what's something that maybe
people can remind themselves of?
Oh, this is just me showingthem me.
You know what Exactly?

Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's well, number one , it's an audition, like we can
put the business of it, you know, for you know it's an audition.
But behind all of that, thatword audition, it's exactly what
you said.
It's an introduction to you,regardless if I've met you
before or I've seen you before,or you're a best friend of mine,
or whatever you may be, may be,I am still getting a side of

(17:26):
you through this work that Ihave yet to see.
You know, maybe it's someonewho doesn't do a lot of I do a
lot of comedy, so maybe it'ssomeone who doesn't do a lot of
comedy, but I'm giving this,them, this opportunity to show
that skill off, you know.
Or maybe it's, or vice versa,someone who does a lot of comedy
and now here's a drama, youknow, and vice versa, someone
who does a lot of plays and nowin television.

(17:47):
You know, it's just, it's justanother opportunity, yeah, and I
think just taking it as a win,because the truth of the matter
is we're not requesting everyonewho submits a self-tape.
So I'm co-casting the equalizerthis season, season four, and
we released something for copnumber two, and I think cop
number two literally had threelines.

(18:08):
We had 1200 submissions for copnumber two.
I did not request 1200 tapes forcop number two.
I requested maybe 40 of them.
So out of that 40, that is avery small percentage of the
whole and so that's what I'mtelling people all the time is
like you got to take yourvictories when you can realize
that every casting director isnot giving every single actor

(18:32):
that opportunity that you havebeen given, regardless if it is
a network show, a series regularon a network show.
Two lines in a movie you knowlead of a student film.
Two lines in a movie, you know.
Lead of a student film,whatever it may be, you are a
small part of the whole and justrealizing that, like as you
move along that journey of thataudition process, whatever that

(18:54):
may be, let's say that I request40 of those 1200 submissions to
self tape, I might get 30 selftapes because maybe a couple of
people passed on the project,maybe someone's not available,
maybe they just didn't submit aself tape, and so maybe I get 30
self-tapes because maybe acouple of people passed on the
project, maybe someone's notavailable, Maybe they just
didn't submit a self-tape, andso maybe I get 30 self-tapes in
total from that 40, from that1,200.
That 30, I'm not sending mycreative team 30 self-tapes, I'm

(19:16):
sending them anywhere between 5and 8, maybe 5 and 10.
So, again, numbers are goingsmaller, probability is going
higher.
So it's just everything alongthe way.
And the journey matters, right.
The journey, the long train,whatever you want to call it,
the long train ride, everythingmatters.

(19:39):
So I think a self-tape is anintroduction, it's an open door,
it's an audition, it's aopportunity.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Wow, look at all we gleamed from that weird question
of mine.
I think that's such wonderfulreminders because the more
you're sort of perseveringthrough this business and just
trying to keep going, the moreyou realize over the years and
it's hard to remember thissometimes but we're all just
people trying to connect withpeople and so it's hard to ride
that line between business and,I don't know, just being
yourself, cause you have to sortof present yourself

(20:12):
professionally.
I mean you can't really do acartwheel into a self tape and
be like and then do too much,but it might be a little bit too
much.
Yeah, a little little flip,just be yourself.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
So this is a good place to start.
You have to be yourself.
You have to, that's you know.
I think now more than ever, I'mgetting this one question where
I didn't know where it comesfrom, but I'm getting.
How do I pop?
How do I be unique, how do I dothis?
And I'm like, if you're tryingto answer that question, you're
going to fail every single time.
If you're trying to answer thequestion of what do they want?
How do they want it, what, howdo they see me, all of it, if

(20:43):
you're trying to answer thosequestions, you're going to fail
every single time because you'renot a mind reader.
I'm not a mind reader.
I've been with them for threemonths and I don't know what
they want.
You know this is your job.
You're like.
You know we're in this together.
You know they don't know whatthey want.
They don't.

(21:05):
They're there.
You're there to show them whatthey want.
You know your choices, youropinions, your point of view on
the work that dictates how theymove Right.
And so when people talk aboutthe power in the room, the power
of watching the self tape orwhatever it may be, the zoom
room or whatever actors, you alldictate how that removes, how
that zoom removes what that selftape moves or not, you know.
So it's, it's the.
It's your choices, your pointof view, your opinion that

(21:27):
dictates how things move.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I love that, and that goes back to what you said
before too it's we don't reallyknow what they want.
You think you maybe know whatthey want, but if you go down
that road maybe you're justgoing to kind of blend in with
everybody else and it's notgoing to be authentic.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
So just be yourself.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Even if you're the wild card, be yourself.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
You don't fit the breakdown.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Have you seen that Ryan Reynolds movie Just Friends
a long time ago?
Throwback it's not relevant tothe conversation at all.
There's a scene where the mom'slike be yourself, be yourself,
okay.
Anyway, I think we're movinginto a nice place to discuss
breakdowns.
Yes, this is something I don'tknow if it's talked about enough

(22:03):
, but I would love your thoughtson sort of breaking down the
breakdown.
As an actor, what do you thinkare the key things for actors to
take away?
Because, again, sometimes Iknow you're giving us as much
information as you have, butsometimes we can hone in on one
thing and it's like, well,playing optimistic intern isn't
necessarily like a tangibleaction, do you know what I'm

(22:23):
saying.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
So, yeah, what are your thoughts there?
That's a really great question,I think, and and something that
should be talked about more, Ithink.
Number one, the breakdown, isthere to help answer some
questions that you might haveabout the project, about the
role, about the casting office.
Like, go going through thebreakdown literally from top to

(22:44):
bottom will only help you.
So so I know a lot.
Especially in 2024 and yearsbefore, we're dealing with a lot
of genre mixing, right?
Shows that are comedies arereally dramas.
Shows that are dramas are, youknow, genre.
What is that?
But I think a lot of peoplehave questions about tone and if

(23:09):
you see who those executiveproducers are, if you see who
those producers are, you see whothose non-writing producers are
, you see who that director is,you see who, what network it's
on, there are a lot of questionsthat can be answered just by
doing five minutes of researchon each person, on that
breakdown, you know, so that youcould get a little bit of
clarity.
Hopefully, you know you get ascript, but if it's an episodic

(23:32):
situation so like the equalizer,which has been on for four
seasons you're not going to getthe full script.
But if it's a new show, you'llhopefully get the pilot of the
script.
If it's a movie, of course, sohopefully you'll get the movie.
If it's a play, you'll get theplay, hopefully, et cetera, et
cetera.
So you can do your researchthere.
But even if you read it, you'relike I don't know if this is a
comedy or drama, you know.
And so just going through andseeing, you know, oh, this

(23:56):
producer also produced this.
Or even if they haven't had ashow before, they have had
something before.
A network, a streamer is notgoing to give anyone just a show
before A network, a streamer isnot going to give anyone just a
show.
You know they have donesomething.
If it's a film at a majorfestival or a short at a major
festival or another show on anetwork or whatever, they have a
body of work somewhere or aninterview somewhere that you can
just look at for five minutes.

(24:17):
Maybe there's an actor alreadyattached Right, and you can say
like, oh, so this actor's in it.
So it could possibly not thatit's guaranteed, but it could
possibly be something like thisor something like that.
You know giving yourself, youknow we learned in school
context clues, these are yourcontext clues to figure it out.
And then, when you get to yourrole's breakdown or your role's

(24:39):
description, you know, I thinksimilar to what you said about,
like the optimistic intern, weare still 3D, you know, we are
still full faceted people.
So, like, I wouldn'tnecessarily say if you're going
in for the optimistic intern tocome in like the goth, you know,
like that's not going to helpyou at all.
But what you, unless you knowand I'm speaking from a lens of

(25:01):
like, if you have more material,so right.
If the optimistic intern hasthree lines and it of like, if
you have more material, so right.
If the optimistic intern hasthree lines and it's like, hey,
how are you today?
You know, like you know what todo with that, right.
But if this is a a biggerco-star or bigger or guest star,
recur or series regular, justrealize that like we all have

(25:23):
things that make us people, thatlike we all have things that
make us people, and so what youdon't want, possibly, is to make
it all.
One note you want to figure out.
Okay, so optimism, optimistic,what does that mean?
You know, because each emotionhas three emotions attached to
it, or three personality trait,or personality trait has three
personality traits attached toit.
So it's breaking down that word,really, and being like oh, this

(25:45):
wouldn't that, this and thatand this, that, and then using
the text also as a guide, doingyour script analysis.
You know what?
Where are they?
Who are they talking to?
What relation are they withthat person?
What makes them optimistic?
You know, where did they comeLike?
Were they pessimistic beforeand now they are optimistic?
Do they have a dark side thatthey're hiding and they are

(26:05):
optimistic?
All of this stuff, your fivequestions, all of that goes into
making that character andmaking your choices, because
there's so many ways to show joy, there's so many ways to show
happiness, there's so many waysto show optimism, and seeing all
of those ways is exciting andthat's what makes me show up to

(26:28):
the job every single day,because if I give 40 people the
opportunity to do optimisticintern, it's really exciting to
see 40 different ways of howthat is digested and how that is
understood and how that isacted.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yes, and I think too, if you relate to a lot of these
terms in the breakdown andyou're getting called in for
things, or just in life, if youfeel like people are calling you
any of these adjectives, that'sprobably something you don't
have to put on or try and spendtoo much energy in, because if
you're exuding that energyalready, it might just be, a hat
on a hat if you're sort of liketrying to make it too you know

(27:08):
going too wild with it, but youcovered a lot of my questions
already in that.
That is incredible and I thinkthe tone thing is super helpful.
I was going to ask you a lotabout tone.
Did agents ever straight up sayyou know, my client would love
to know what the tone is?
Do you ever get questionsspecifically about tone and is
that acceptable?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, I think any question is acceptable.
I do honestly think, especiallynow in a world where A things
are blending so much with toneand genre and, two, where you
know we might not be in the roomwith each other.
So I just want you to be assuccessful as humanly possible.
Sure, there are going to betrial and error.

(27:47):
There are going to be assuccessful as humanly possible.
Sure, there are going to betrial and error.
They're going to be things, andeven if we were in the room,
you know they're going to be somany things.
Sometimes in the room it's likewe figuring this out together,
babe like I have no idea eithereither, you know um, especially
like if I'm not even allowed toread the script, if there's like
an nda situation and like all Ihave are like two pages of
sides that everyone's doing.
It's's sort of just like, well,we don't go to go on this
journey together and we don'tfigure it out, and that's why,

(28:10):
another thing I, especially now,I am a fan, unless you have,
like you know, 20 page sides.
You know I'm a fan, I'm a fanof submitting to two takes of a
side, you know.
But two different takes, right.
So differences, like we'retalking about tone, motivation,
relationship, yeah, so metalking to my friend Robert

(28:30):
Peter Paul is different than metalking to someone that I may
not like as much, you know, likethose are two different, those
are two different conversationsin two different ways.
You know, I think that's that'salways, that's always.
Um, I think for me I can'tspeak for everybody else, that's
always encouraged, for me,especially, you have three lines
, and even that can I take.
Your order Can be said infiniteamount of ways.

(28:53):
Did you start your shift?
Are you ending your shift?
Did you just get in a fightwith your boss?
Are you on your way out?
Are you just starting the job,whatever it may be, there are
many ways to say that.
So again, I'm totally fine withyou sending in two takes, maybe
three takes, of the couple ofone liners and then two takes of
, like you know, a two to threefour page scene.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think
that is something to again trustyour gut about.
If you have 20 pages, youdefinitely shouldn't send in two
takes of that.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Maybe make a strong decision and then, if they see,
something, and hopefully noone's sending you a 20 page sign
.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, Erica no, I would say more so musical
theater.
Sometimes you get those giantpackets, but you know, usually
usually everyone tries the bestthey can to make it as small as
possible, which we appreciate.
Yes, we talked about tone,which I think is so helpful.
Another thing you touched on ismaking a choice, which is
something you talk about reallyexcellently.
From what I've read and fromwhat I see in my feed, you have

(29:49):
these amazing little clips onInstagram that people are
sharing of you all over.
I think actors are told make achoice, and it can be subjective
.
It means something a littledifferent to the receiver and
then the person saying it To youis it sort of just like making
a strong, having a strong ideaon the material, or a strong
take?
You know what is?

Speaker 1 (30:07):
your thought on making a choice.
So when people say choice, theymean opinion, they mean point
of view, Right, and so baselinefoundation is do something you
know and like.
As actors, you're already doingsomething, hopefully because
you are acting Right.
So, again, all of thesecharacters be at number one on
the call sheet to bus drivernumber 27.

(30:30):
That has one line and the oneline is hey, you know,
regardless of where you are.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
I love those.
I see those in TV shows and Isay, yeah, I'm so excited, it's
amazing.
Regardless of who they are,it's a human being thing.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Regardless of who they are, it's a human being,
right?
So, like human beings havebreath, they have movement, they
have, you know, life, they havethings to do.
So I think you know making achoice is just doing something
with the material that you findtrue and natural.

(31:03):
I think you know, with film andTV, if there's a scene at a
coffee shop, I don't want to seetwo actors having a
conversation at a coffee shop.
I want to see two people havinga conversation at a coffee shop
, and so when people are likeyou're being too big for me,
that's meaning I can see anactor, I can see the work, I can
see the craft I can see, well,I mean not so much the craft,

(31:26):
but I can see the work, I cansee the craft I can see.
Well, I mean not so much thecraft, but I can see the work,
you know, and I don't want tosee the work, I just want to see
y'all have a conversation.
It's a voyeuristic experience,right, and so I think that's
that's something to think about.
You know, if you watch yourtapes back because everyone
should watch their tapes back,right, everybody's rewatching
their tapes after they do themtapes back, right, everybody's
rewatching their tapes afterthey do them.
It's just like checking work,you know, checking your math, oh

(31:47):
, you know, if you had aspelling test, you would just
check to see if you know all ofthe things lined up.
But you're checking your, yourwork, and you're seeing
something and you're like, ohokay, maybe I got to do this
again.
I, I feel like I, and againnothing's.
There are no right or wrongchoices, it's just a choice,
because this whole business isrelative and especially with
television, you have yourshowrunner, right, but then you

(32:09):
also have a producers, you havea director, probably every
single episode, and differentdirector every single episode.
You have different writersevery single episode.
So it's different, right.
And so the director for episodethree is going to be different
than the episode four and theyhave two different tastes, right
, you know, like it's likesometimes a dinner party this

(32:29):
person's like the chicken, thisperson wants the fish, this
person wants the beef, thisperson's a vegan, this person's
on a juice cleanse and I canjust say you want some water.
You know, is that what we'redoing today?
Just realize, and that's why Isaid you got to release the what
do they want?
Because it changes number oneand number two, it could change
if it's on a television show,for a film and play and musicals

(32:51):
.
Those are different.
But but you just gotta.
You gotta do something.
You can't think about playingit safe.
I get a lot of that questionshould I just play it safe?
It's like no, you're gonna getlost in the shuffle.
You're gonna get lost in thepile.
On the of my mouth, though,don't do something like you said
.
Don't just do a cartwheel inthe middle of the scene, because
it's like I'm going to shockthem.
You know this is going to makeme pop.
I'm going to start to beatboxduring this like like scene.

(33:15):
It's like that makes no sense.
But if it makes sense and it'strue and it's natural for you,
then maybe.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, try something, but just don't do it.
To do it because that that'snot going to be true and that's
not going to be natural.
Yeah, no, you're so right.
I'm laughing because I made areally strong choice in a tape
the other day that I was talkingto my wife about and I'm like
is this too much?
But I really felt in my gutthat it fit the character and
everything you think about fromlike should I shave?
Should I not shave?
What shirt am I wearing?
All these things can kind ofadd pressure, you know.
Should I be memorized?
How do I look?

Speaker 1 (33:48):
on camera what?

Speaker 2 (33:50):
setting.
Should I put my ring light on?
Is the ring light too bright?
I know in this job we can getsort of oversaturated with that
and it's important to learn allthese things, but at the end of
the day, let's say, someonelistening right now is about to
go do a self-tape what are sort?
of the actor, things you wantthem to remember.
Prep-wise, I mean, this is ourjob, but if you could just give
people something to latch ontoto remind them.

(34:12):
All this stuff is icing on thecake, but what really matters is
you.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I know that's so woo-woo, but I always say it's
the visitor vase rule.
You had it within you the wholetime, you know you were.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
You were wearing the ruby slippers.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
All you had to do was just click them three times One
, two, three.
You know.
But you need the journey torealize that you need to, and
you need to pick up friendsalong the way and, like I think
Wizard of Oz is just so you knoweverything.
But but yeah, you have it.
You know, like you've beendoing this for, even if you just

(34:48):
got out of school, or this isyour first self tape, or this is
, you know, your 50th self tapetoday, like, regardless of what
it is, someone is asking you todo something.
Someone sees something in youthat makes them think that you
can get the job Right.
Because, again, we're notasking everyone to do it.
At the end of the day, oneperson's going to get the job
Right, because, again, we're notasking everyone to do it.
At the end of the day, oneperson's going to get the job
and that person could be you,because you're giving this

(35:09):
opportunity Right.
So it's just very much of likesomeone is seeing something in
you that maybe you do see inyourself and you're like, okay,
let's play, you know.
Or maybe it's like I don't knowwhat the heck I'm doing, you
know, but just realize thatevery single casting
professional who is sending youa self-tape, for whatever medium
it may be, thinks you can bookthis job, regardless of what the

(35:31):
job is Bus driver number 27,series regular, lead of a movie,
whatever it may be, thiscasting director, whomever is
sending you this opportunity,the self-tape thinks you can
book it.
And so I think that might takeaway some of the stuff of like,

(35:52):
well, if I do this and if I dothat, sure, okay, fine.
But I think self-tape,technically, I just need to hear
you and I just need to see you.
It doesn't need to be shot onan Ari Alexa, it doesn't need to
be a fancy.
Alexa return it doesn't need tobe a fancy alexa return, it
doesn't have to have a fancymicrophone.
I don't need a fancy backdrop,I don't need anything.

(36:13):
All I need is you right,because you can put up the fancy
backdrop, you can put it on,you can put your fancy camera on
a fancy uh tripod.
You could have a fancy ringlight or a fancy three camera
setup, but without you in it,it's just some stuff you know,
and so I think, just go in anddo what you can do.

(36:33):
Tara Rubin often says do thedoables, because at the end of
the day there, I know, at theend of the day, there are so
many things that are out of yourcontrol, so many things.
Maybe we cast the lead and thelead is 6-5 and you're not not
even five feet.
Or vice versa, the lead is fivefeet and you're six, five, you

(36:56):
know, and it's like well, wecould get an Apple box, but you
know, whatever, whatever, likeit's, there are just so many
things that are not in yourcontrol.
But there are things that arein your control being prepared,
you know.
I think people are like well, Iam prepared, I am off book, and
it's like okay, that's great,and not to say that you have to
be off book.
You just have to know thematerial.
You have to know it.
If that's memorization for you,great.

(37:17):
If that is just being familiarwith the material, great.
Whatever your process is isyour process, but there's so
many things that go along withthe preparation.
Did you read the breakdown?
Did you read the script?
Did you do your research?
Do you know that the show is onABC, which is different than
NBC, which is different than FX,which is different than Netflix
, which is different than all ofthose things?

(37:38):
Have you done your research?
If you're going in for SVU, haveyou watched an episode?
If you're going in for BlueBloods, have you watched an
episode?
If you're going in forEqualizer, have you watched an
episode?
If you're going in for a newChris Brancato show, have you
watched an episode of Godfatherof Harlem?
Have you watched an episode ofNarcos?
You know like these people havecanons and that's your work,

(37:58):
that's a part of the stuff.
So, informed actors and as asmart actor, you know, and once
you have all of that stuff, thenit should become easier to just
walk in the room and do whatyou can do, because all of that
stuff is just in the back ofyour head, at the front of the
head, is the work and thecharacter and everything else,
and you can be present, right,you can be present, you could be

(38:18):
listening, right, you candigest the information that's
given to you so that then youcan react into the way that it.
You know, you, you can do it,um.
So, yeah, I think at the end ofthe day, we're just, we're just
looking for you.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
These are all gems, because you're the one sort of,
I guess, have a metaphor in thespotlight, but there's a set
behind you, there's props, Imean all this stuff is in the
background.
It's not what you're focusingon in your audition.
You're not sort of innermonologuing, the fact that you
know the equalizer is thisspecific tone as you're doing
the audition.
But you have that, as you'resaying, that wealth of knowledge
, and I think that's all sohelpful.

(38:50):
Oh, my goodness.
And as you were talking, itreminded me too.
It's just such a joy to bethought of, isn't it In this
world, just so many thoughts inour brain for someone to
actually think of you and giveyou an.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
I always I.
But even you know, even whenI'm, you know, invited somewhere
, or even if someone's you know,if I'm up for a job or
something, I always say like,thank you for inviting me to the
table.
You know, thank you forincluding me.
You know, thank you forinviting me.
You know, regardless if I getit or if I go or things like
that, it's just like you said,it's, it's flattering to be

(39:23):
thought of, it's flattering tobe included, it's flattering to
be in community, whatever that,whatever that means.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I love that.
Well, as you were speaking,we've heard some sirens, which I
think is great.
People listening from aroundthe world will hear this New
York City vibe.
I think it's so fun.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Coming to you from Harlem.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Coming to us live.
We got the godmother of Harlemover here.
That's hilarious, loud.
Obviously there's a bit, but weget certain technical things
that we're taught when we'remaking a tape right, and I think
it boils down to just not beingdistracting.
But do you have certain repeatmistakes?
You see that I don't know ifthey cost an actor a job because
you're so lovely.
You'd probably say, hey, canyou refilm this?

(40:07):
Maybe not on the beach orwhatever it is.
Are there certain things, Iguess, technical wise, that
you'd want to shout out?

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I just think you know this might not be a technical
thing, but I do think it couldboil down technically is just
follow the instructions that arebeing given to you.
So if there's a specific order,that they want the scenes, even
though that there's scene oneand scene two, maybe the
instructions say actually putscene two first.
You know if there's a certainway that they want their tape
labeled, if they want clipsinstead of one situation, if

(40:40):
they want you to say a certainthing in your slate, if they
want you to include, you know ifyou're going in for a dancer.
If they want you to include,you know the given choreography.
If they want you to include,that you know.
Whatever that may be, justfollow those instructions,
because when you do get on set,when you do get to the theater,

(41:04):
that's going to be your life isfollowing instructions and
that's kind of like we're notput.
It's not like.
You know some, some celebrities, writers, that say they only
want green and M&Ms.
And that's not necessarily ourpatch Red.
Sour Patch Kids.
It's not necessarilynecessarily for them, it's just
to see that you actually readthe writer.
You know, um, we're not tryingto trick you, you know, or
anything.
That's just to help you and topush it forward.

(41:24):
But technically again, we justneed to hear you and see you
don't feel like you have to buyanything like.
The phones are great, you know,these tablets are great, um,
but yeah, no, no, nothing,nothing technical.
I would just say always checkyour work, always check your
work.
I've gotten a lot of tapeswhere I'm like I'm supposed to
hear that in the beginning, Idon't know if I'm supposed to
hear you.

(41:47):
I don't think I'm supposed tohear that.
So just double check before youhit send or upload or whatever
Even if you want to redownloadthe tape just to make sure that
you put the exact take and theexact tape Take with a.

(42:07):
K and tape with a P, the exactone that you want, and they
could be like oh crap, I didn'tmean to upload take five.
I meant to upload take three,take five, I meant to upload
take three.
You know, just just doublecheck your work, cause I I just
don't want you to send the wrongthing when you didn't mean to.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
No, that's so smart and I can imagine as a casting
director on the other side.
You know, I don't want to putthis on y'all, but I would feel
a certain type of way of someonesubmitted a tape and it was
wonderful, but they didn'tfollow the instructions.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It wasn't labeled clearly.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
It was submitted in the wrong order.
It was all one file versusbeing single files.
Whatever it is, I wouldsubliminally feel a little like
okay, this person maybe doesn'tthink they care as much, Do you
know what I mean?
So I think it can only help youto, to just be more diligent in
that way, yeah, and I think youknow there's a love.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
it's just a level of professionalism, I think you
know.
I think you know one time isone time.
I'm never going to hold someonefor one time, though if it

(43:12):
becomes a pattern, then itbecomes a spidey sense of.
Do I trust this actor?
Because, again, I work on theequalizer and our scene opposite
of Queen Latifah.
Can I trust you enough to be OKin that situation?
Can I trust you enough to be ina scene opposite of Ice-T or
Mariska Hargitay or Tom Selleckor whomever it may be?
You know, because you're you'rethe guest in the home.
And can I trust you to be agood house guest?

(43:34):
You know, can I trust you to bea good house guest?
You know, can I trust you toshow up on time?
And so if the deadline is 3 PMon a Tuesday and life gone, life
, you know, life has gone tolife.
So, like, if you're like Erica,I'm so sorry I got into
something crazy today Can I getan extension?
That's totally fine, of course.
If I can give it to you, I'mgoing to give it to you.
Sometimes I can't, but even ifI can, like, hey, I can't give

(43:57):
you a full day, but I can giveyou an extra two hours.
Does that work?
Yes, that's perfect, thank youso much.
You know, and sometimes I cangive you an extra day, but if it
becomes a pattern where you'realways asking for an extension,
then my spidey sensors are goingto go off and be like do I
trust you enough to come to a4am Monday morning call time all
the way out in in city Island,bronx?

(44:17):
Do I trust you enough to dothat, you know.
So I think everything comes intoeverything, comes into play
when it comes into this in theroom, out of the room, all of
that, it's still a.
You know, I am sending you toset and just realize that you,
coming to set, you are bringingthe people that brought you

(44:37):
there, right.
So like, yes, you arerepresenting yourself, but
you're also representing yourrepresentation, if you have it,
you're representing that castingoffice.
You know you're representingeverybody, uh, so just just
realize that, like it's yourreputation, but when something
goes wrong, we get the call, youknow, and that's, that's a,

(44:58):
that's a thing.
So just just realize that, like,this is a fun business and it's
a business that we all love,but it is a business and I just
don't want anybody to get lostin the way or have something
happen to them, when it's notwhat you mean at all.
It's just maybe you have a timemanagement issue, maybe you
have an attention to detail,right, and maybe if something is

(45:20):
due at 3 pm on a Tuesday, maybeyou really need to be setting
it at 1 pm on a Tuesday so that,like, you can get there for the
3 pm on a Tuesday you know, andthat's just a self thing, you
know, but yeah, I think justjust just be as professional as
humanly possible for that day.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
It all boils down to that.
You don't want to get a badreputation.
You're speaking of, not badreputations.
Queen Latifah, I was herassistant for the day when I
interned at NBC, and she was themost fun person ever.
I'm just going to put she'samazing.
I love her so much, and so areyou and the time is trickling
away, so we're going to takethis up a notch.
For a little self-tape flashround, I'm going to throw out

(46:03):
some statements or topics aroundcasting and you please just
name the first thing that comesinto your beautiful brain.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
I apologize in advance.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
No, it's going to be great, and you've already
answered so many of my questions, so I might even skip a few of
them.
Let's start with the slate.
Slating is the hardest part.
What would you like to sayabout slating?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
beautiful scenes of Gabriella.
Now my slate is I'm Erica,right, so it's an introduction.
It's your first time beingintroduced to you as a human.
Now, if you're going in for aserial killer, I don't need the
serial killer in the in theslate, right, um, because then
it's sort of just like oh, areyou a serial killer?
You know, super sweet but supersimple.
You know, hey, america by four,new York city, that's baseline,

(46:59):
what we basically need, right,they'll maybe tell you some
introductions on instructions onwhat they possibly might need.
You know, they might need toknow certain things or whatever,
but it doesn't need to be awhole meal.
I think also, like if, when Iwas doing the first episode of
Love Life season two, the rolethat Jessica Williams got was a
member of, it was a KA, which isa sorority, a black sorority,

(47:21):
and so the women that wereauditioning that were a KA's
some of them put that in theirslates.
You know, and I'm a proud KA,you know it doesn't mean you're
going to book the role, but thatjust gives me a little bit, a
little bit about you.
That is similar to that role,you know, and it's quick boom,
boom, boom, you know.
So, again, the slate isimportant, but it's not the end.
All be all.
But there are moments where youknow your tape might not be, uh

(47:45):
, exactly what they're lookingfor, but something in your slate
is like oh, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
What are you doing over there?

Speaker 1 (47:50):
That's really interesting, you know, and don't
feel like, on a technical level, it's totally fine If I see the
cat, it's totally fine If I seethe, the, the oven, like, don't
feel like.
Oh my God, I live in a New Yorkapartment, I you know, take all
of that away, take all thataway.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
That's a relief, because the full slate sometimes
is tough to get.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
the full body it's tough Show the cat in the oven
and the mom and the in theposter of Beyonce.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
It's totally fine, oh , I love that.
That might actually help.
Honestly, you know this ain'tTexas, but you can show that
poster.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
This ain't Texas, but you can show that poster.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, and I did one time slate and saying that I had
like camera experience becauseit was for the role of a
cameraman, and they said it intheir email.
Okay, I'm going to bust youthrough this.
Yes, sorry.
No, you're good.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Wardrobe.
It's important.
Wardrobe is important.
I think you know, and I shouldhave prefaced this beginning of
the podcast.
This is my opinion.
You can't see me, but I ampointing to myself.
This is my opinion.
I think wardrobe this is myopinion, Isn't that?

Speaker 2 (48:49):
like a famous reality TV, probably.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
I think it's a Real.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Housewives thing.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Sorry, I was about to say that sounded like a Real
Housewives thing.
We love it.
No, I'd be sorry.
I think it's important.
I think if you're going in for agoth and you wear all pink,
you're doing yourself adisservice.
I think if you're going in forthe young lawyer at a high law
firm and you come in with a RipAbercrombie and Fitch t-shirt,
you're doing yourself adisservice.
I think we all live in a worldand we all, and people, dress a

(49:16):
certain way in that world.
Now, don't go buy and you know,go out and buy an Armani suit
just because the character wearsan Armani suit.
But look nice, you know, Ithink it also helps you as the
actor.
You know, we feel differentwhen we have, when we have, the
blazer on.
We feel different.
If we have the dress on, wefeel different if we're wearing
all black.
You know it's, it's, it's it'sjust to help you.

(49:42):
And watching it again, do thedoables.
That is something that you cando that you won't be thinking
about later.
Uh, maybe I should have wornthe blazer.
You know, it's just somethingthat you that, again, you don't
even have to think about.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, someone said this to me once when
interviewing for a muggle job.
They said someone else isalways going to wear the tie, so
you might as well bust out.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Someone else is going to wear the tie, so good.
So then you don't have to thinkabout well, what if I wore the
tie?

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Exactly, it won't keep you up at night, all right.
Well, this could go down adifferent note, but I might know
the answer that you're going tosay to this, but I shouldn't
guess.
I'm not a mind reader.
Props.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I knew you were going to bring it up.
I was like the next thing isgoing to be props.
I'm a huge fan of props.
I'm a huge fan of props.
As long as the scene doesn'tbecome a prop, you know, as long
as the scene is not all aboutthe bagel or all about the water
bottle or all about the fist orall about the vat, like it
still should be about you.
But now that we're doing selftaping, if you're drinking a

(50:35):
glass of water, again you can'tsee me.
It doesn't make sense for youto mime it in my mind like get
the glass, get the water, take asip.
You know.
If you're using a phone, we allhave them, use a phone.
Or if you're using your phoneto self tape, use your case.
Whatever it may be, you know, Ijust think again, it puts you
in the scene, it just helps italong.
You feel different.

(50:56):
But if you use a cup, fill thecup with water.
That is one of my biggest petpeeves in watching television is
an empty cup.
I'm like there is not a thingin that damn cup.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Put just a film recently where they had a you
might've seen this done like aUV pen, and then after each take
they would come over and shinethe UV light to see if your
glass was at the exact level asit was in the last take.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Oh, my God, that's a mess.
Okay, come on.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
But, like again, you feel different holding a cup
that has liquid in it versus itnot.
So I'm a fan of props.
I say, yes, props but justdon't, don't go overdo it, don't
overdo it.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Okay, props to that being word perfect.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
You know, I think, just remember and I'm going to
try to speed through this, thewords are their babies, their
words are their babies.
Right, and I think, also,living in the self-tape world,
the pro of the self-tape is thatyou can do it multiple times,
right?

(52:01):
And so, especially for thosetricky one-liners or the tricky
two-liners or the trickythree-liners, get those right.
Like, get those couple of lines, get those there, because then
that shows I can trust you.
Right, Because nerves are goingto kick in and you're going to
be next to the star and blah,blah, blah.
And like, you're not going tohave four hours to shoot your
three line scene, You're notgoing to have four hours to
shoot your two line.
You know two scenes, you knowmoment Um.
So I would say, just realizethat words are babies.

(52:24):
Perfection doesn't exist, though, you know.
So that's why it's like,whatever your process is, if
it's memorization, if it's being, um, familiar with the work,
whatever it may be, but if yourfirst line is written a certain
way, get that first line, youknow, because that's your
introduction.

(52:44):
You can't have a second chanceto have a first impression.
So, you know, really, reallytry your darndest, especially if
it's a self-tape.
In person.
That's totally different.
Say the scene as if you were onstage.
You wouldn't stop and be likeoh I'm so sorry, I totally
forgot that line.
Let me go back.
You wouldn't say that in a 1600house people house, Um, you

(53:05):
would just keep going.
You know, but I think with aself-tapes.
You know, perfection doesn'texist, but try your darndest to
get it right.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yes, I love that and of course it's all subjective
and medium wise.
It definitely influenced whatyou're doing.
You know if you're doing a playversus a sketch show and then
improv might come in.
Which is my next little buttonhere.
Is it is improv, is it like agolden rule you have for that,
or is it sort of like causewe're seeing it?

Speaker 1 (53:32):
more and more in TV, film, maybe not network.
Yeah, yeah, I think it'sproject based by project based.
I think, you know, of course,comedy is a little bit looser,
goosier, but even then, you know, words are babies and words are
powerful.
And I think and that's aquestion to ask, you know,
hopefully, you know, if I'mworking on a comedy, I'll
sometimes be like, you know, dothe, do the one take as written,

(53:54):
but then do the second take,maybe fully improv.
You know, and sometimes we getthat from our producers, you
know the being like, yeah, thisis like a curve where you know
the, the script is an outlineand we kind of are going to be
improv-ing the whole time, youknow, and that's a very
different show than, say, like aShonda Rhimes show where those
words are her words, you know,and that is what it should be.

(54:16):
So, so, yeah, do, do your, doyour best and figure out what it
is.
And sometimes you're like, ifyou don't have the button or the
last line of the scene, andyou're like I kind of, I kind of
still want to have my lastthing.
Your last thing doesn't have tobe verbal, it can be an action,
it can be a look, it can be asound, it can be a lean in a

(54:37):
lean, for whatever that may.
Sometimes the improv doesn'thave to be verbal.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
And at the top of the tape too.
I think it's important toremember we're all coming from
somewhere we're all living lifebefore we say can I get you?
Yes?

Speaker 1 (54:52):
exactly those three lines.
I always say a little businessat the top your line and then a
little bit.
You're never just stuck, yousaid.
You're never just standingthere delivering a line, Like
you're either entering orexiting, or like maybe you flip
your notepad to start takingsomebody's order, Like there are
little things you can do to getyourself into that scene.
And that's where watchingtelevision and watching films
and going to movies and going totheater and things like that

(55:14):
will help you to be, or justlike observing life.
Observing life, that's whereall of this comes from, and just
being like, oh yeah, the taxidriver starts the car and then
says where are you going?
You know, like different thingslike that can can help.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah, that's so important and do help.
It's like a mullet, it's like abusiness in the top and then at
the end you can have a littleparty in the back a little party
in the back deadline,flexibility, technical mistakes
I mean you kind of hit all thesefinding a good reader, any, any
thoughts there um someone who'snot gonna upstage you, I guess?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
someone who's not gonna stage you.
It is your audition, right?
So someone's not gonna stageyou some.
It doesn't have to be an actorper se.
It just needs to be someone whokeeps up with your cues and
someone who doesn't have adistracting voice, whatever that
may be Realizing that it isyour audition.
Run it a few times, you know.
I think that's very important.
But we've all been insituations where the reader,

(56:06):
even in person, isn't great, youknow.
So I think now it's your timethat you can cast your reader.
You know, I think that's fun.
I think that's a fun situationthat you could possibly have.
But again, don't feel like itcould be your mom, it could be
your sister.
I have a lot of tapes where Ihear their kids be their reader.
You know, and that's sweet, youknow, it just needs to be

(56:27):
someone who can read, who cankeep up with your cues, who
doesn't have a distracting voice.
You know, in person, that wouldbe great.
But you know, sometimes wedon't have someone that lives
with us.
Sometimes we have to zoomsomebody or call somebody and
put them on speaker.
That's totally fine.
The only thing I would say is,again, even in person, you
should rehearse it.
But even if you're, if you'redoing a technological reader,

(56:47):
you should possibly do itmultiple times so that you can
get the timing, cause sometimesthere's a delay, sometimes
there's a lag, sometimes, youknow, figuring out the sound,
like if I'm using my phone,making sure that the phone, if
that's your sound source, iscloser to you than it is to your
reader, so that you come in alittle bit clearer and hotter
than your reader.
You know, I still need to hearyour reader, but, like if you're

(57:09):
only using your phone as yoursound source, which is fine.
You should move it a little bitcloser to you so that I can
hear you.
Hear you more.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Yeah, have you ever in the history of ever said who
is that reader and then tried tocall the reader?

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yes, oh my God, that happened with girls on the bus.
Someone, someone read, and Imessaged the agent.
I was like, who's their reader?
I think I want to see them fora certain role.
And it happened to be avoiceover actor actually, who
was, and it was like it's herwonderful husband, so and so who
is a voiceover actor?
And I was like, great, I'd loveto see him.

(57:43):
Or do you rep him, or do reps,you know?
And so I sent him anappointment.
Yeah, that happens all the time,or when you recognize the voice
, you know you recognize thevoice.
Maybe it's their friend ortheir spouse, or you know a the
voice, maybe it's their friendor their spouse, or you know a

(58:03):
parent or something and you'relike, is christopher walken
reading with them?
Yeah, like I had.
I had.
I had miles flohessy.
Uh, read something for che awhile ago and it was a.
He was a rookie cop and Ineeded like a sergeant and he
had his dad, robert flohessy,read and it's like there's the
sergeant yep, so cool that'samazing, and everyone watch
girls on the bus.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
By the way, we've been loving it is so good it is
so good.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Thank you streaming on max now.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I know we got to roll out but before we do, this has
certainly all been inspiring.
I would love to end on an evenmore inspiring finale by getting
some erica isms, because likedolly parton, I feel like you're
becoming sort of famous foryour quick phrases, which I've
known for like over a decade now, seeing you do workshops and
stuff like that.
So I'd love to ask you andagain, I'm still workshopping

(58:44):
this a got and a give.
So first what's the best pieceof advice you got from someone
in this industry?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Wow, the best piece of advice that I have gotten.
It's kind of similar.
What I've been saying is, likeyou can't Marcy Marcy Phillips
would say always, you knowwhat's for you, is for you, you
know your time.
It's like it's always when yourepeat something that it really
hits.
You know, don't be worriedabout your friend over there,

(59:16):
Don't be worried about what yourfriend over here has.
Like, your journey is yours,right, and whatever they have
going on, that's great for themand support them and love them
and like really see them succeed.
And that has nothing to do withyour success, right?
So just because they might besuccessful, that has nothing to

(59:36):
do with your success.
Like you are still on yourjourney.
It's not if it's going tohappen, it's when it's going to
happen.
It might not happen in thepackage that you always thought
it was going to be, but it willbe a package that it is meant to
be, and so I think that'ssomething that is something that
I really hold on on to, becauseI think there's a lot of

(59:57):
sometimes noise that's happeningand you're like, oh, what's
happening over there?
It's like I'm not necessarilywant to say like, stay in your
lane.
I think sometimes you do haveto hop from lane to lane to
figure it out, but I thinksometimes, like you, just have
to focus on your journey andjust support your friends.
You know, Um, and then you knowwhen it will hit, it'll hit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Yeah, put on that blinker when you change the lane
.
Be intentional.
It's much more fun to celebratefriends.
Become a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Grinch and think like why not me?
It's like because it hasnothing to do with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I almost did my Grinch impression, but I'm going
to write it in because we gotone more minute left and I would
love to end here by getting.
It might be similar, but do youhave a piece of advice you
would want to give to listenerslooking to consistently work as
actors?

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
I think for me, especially in this time of a
pandemic and two strikes andjust the world that we live in,
finding out who you are withoutthe camera, finding out who you
are when the curtain goes down,finding out who you are when
this goes away right, becausethat's who you are and that's

(01:01:05):
what everything will be based on.
So don't give, don't get a giveaway the things that you grew
up loving.
So like if you were someone wholoves to paint, still paint.
If you're someone who loves togo rock climbing, still rock
climb.
If you're someone who loves totake long walks, take long walks
.
Find things that fill your cupand make you feel good, that

(01:01:25):
have nothing to do with thisbusiness, because the truth of
the matter is, even the actorsthat you look up to, they're not
working 52 weeks out of theyear.
You know they are.
You know they are doingsomething that that makes them
feel good, and sometimes it'sout of privilege, you know.
Sometimes it's like, oh, I cantake a break, and sometimes it's
like, well, I'm taking a breakbecause I don't have anything at

(01:01:45):
the moment, you know, but whenyou don't have anything at the
moment, I'm using air quoteswhat can you do to make yourself
feel full, make yourself feelcontent, because happiness
that's a totally differentpodcast.
But what is something that canfill you up and keep the joy

(01:02:06):
going, even if you're on a job?
Hell, let's talk about it.
Even if you're on the job andit's rough and tough and ready
and you're just like I need togo to a spin class right now,
you know, like that is what'sgoing to center me.
Find the things that fill youup and that center you and your
community.
Your community, like this is ajourney, like I said, wizard of

(01:02:27):
Oz, you find your friends alongthe way.
Keep those people close.
There is no competition Because, again, what is meant for you
is meant for you, because, again, what is meant for you is meant
for you.
So, like, keep your peopleclose and check in on your
people and have a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
You're so good, it's entertainment, it's fun, you're
so right and you can bring allthat to the set.
I used to do background workwith my nanny, which is a whole
other story my grandma.
I did a couple of backgroundwork with her when I was in
college and we used to takewalks around the set during the
10 hour days, because that iswhat recenters both of us and
I'm going to go take a long walkright now and just relish in
this time together.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Thank you for all you do.
You know to lead with joy inthis industry and make us actors
feel really safe.
And to be cheesy, I did writethis down.
Your last name, hart, is onpoint, I don't know if anyone's
ever told you that, yes, this ishow the kids do it now.
Did you know that?

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
I know it's the K-pop thing or they do.
They do this thing.
I've never seen that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
The Gen Z's yeah, they're doingthis, but I'm doing old school
millennial using both hands.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
I love it.
I love it.
We got to stay strong.
Well, I have so much love foryou.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Love you.
Thanks, Robert.