February 13, 2025 • 46 mins
Hannah Dannecker, Managing Partner of the Better Together Group, joins us this episode to discuss staffing in the transportation and trucking industry. We explore the growing push over the last decade to bring more women into the historically male-dominated field.
[0:00] Introduction
- Welcome, Hannah!
- Today’s Topic: Transforming the Trucking Industry Through Gender Diversity
[8:32] How Hannah got into the transportation industry
- Understanding transportation’s male-dominated landscape
- Comparing men’s vs. women’s workplace priorities
[20:15] Why many have built a lasting career in transportation
- The unique appeal that keeps industry veterans engaged
- Transportation’s resilience through economic challenges
[28:47] Championing women in transportation
- Industry federations’ role in promoting female representation
- Addressing safety perceptions in the trucking profession
[45:15] Closing
- Thanks for listening!
Quick Quote:
“For the [trucking] industry at large . . . females are valuable. Female truck drivers are incredible—their safety ratings are fantastic; they’re dedicated; they’re diligent. They're great employees.”
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Dwight's LinkedIn
Podcast Manager: Karissa Harris
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:01):
The world of business is more complex than ever. The
world of human resources andcompensation is also getting
more complex. Welcome to the HRData Labs podcast, your direct
source for the latest trendsfrom experts inside and outside
the world of human resources.
Listen as we explore the impactthat compensation strategy, data
and people analytics can have onyour organization. This podcast
(00:24):
is sponsored by Salary.com, yoursource for data technology and
consulting for compensation andbeyond. Now here are your hosts,
David Turetsky and Dwight Brown.
David Turetsky (00:38):
Hello and welcome to the HR Data Labs
podcast! I'm your host, DavidTuretsky, alongside my friend,
BFF, actually, partner,consultant at large, Dwight
Brown from Salary.com. Dwight,how are you?
Dwight Brown (00:51):
I'm great! How are you doing, David?
David Turetsky (00:54):
I'm okay! I'm okay, okay. But today I'm
outstanding, because today weget to talk to Hannah Dannecker.
Hannah, how are you?
Hannah Dannecker (01:02):
Doing very well, thank you. Doing doing
good.
David Turetsky (01:05):
So, Hannah, why don't you tell everyone a little
bit about yourself?
Hannah Dannecker (01:09):
Yeah. So I am the managing partner from the
Better Together Group ofCompanies. We are a group of
staffing agencies that helpcompanies find the employees
that they desperately need. Sowe've got a couple different
things that we do, drivers,labor and office. And then I
specifically also focus on theBetter Together Group consulting
side. A lot of a lot of that iswhere my where my heart kind of
(01:33):
comes out, and I love to be it'sgood to do the other things that
you're good at and fun to do thestuff that brings, brings you
joy. So where I find that isthrough, uh, lots of talking
about Generation Z. I givepresentations to mainly
employers, but HR professionals,and more recently, some parents,
(01:54):
some teachers, just oldergenerations who are trying to
understand who the heck Gen Zis, and how we are supposed to
communicate and collaborate withthem effectively. So that's,
that's kind of in a very bignutshell, who who I am and where
I come from.
David Turetsky (02:10):
Well, we're gonna have to talk afterwards so
I can connect with my Gen Zers.
So
Hannah Dannecker (02:14):
Absolutely! I look forward to it. I'll give
you every tip I can give you.
David Turetsky (02:18):
That's awesome.
You have a book out?
Hannah Dannecker (02:20):
I do! I do. I actually am just about to
release my fifth book, which iscrazy, I know.
David Turetsky (02:26):
Ooh! Tell us about them.
Hannah Dannecker (02:28):
Yeah. So I have my my very first one I
published. The name is and Idon't want to get you in
trouble. Are you a are you arated podcast? Can I swear on
your podcast?
David Turetsky (02:37):
You can swear, but don't use the F word.
Hannah Dannecker (02:39):
Okay, absolutely, I will not. So the
name of my first book is, Well,Shit. And the whole concept
behind this is, it's made forkids who are graduating high
school and graduatinguniversity, and they're going,
oh my gosh, what the heck do Ido now? Well, shit, it's time to
grow up. Like, what does thislook like? What are we doing?
How do we do this? And so thatstarted in the midst of COVID
(03:01):
and was originally a diary thatI had written for my someday
children to have just ofdifferent life lessons that I
had kind of learned anddifferent things that people in
my life had taught me. And thennaturally, because they were
lessons that other people hadtaught me, I wanted to put them
in paper so that I could shareit with those people. And by the
time I had typed it all out, Iwas like, Well, I mean, I'm
here. I'll publish the dangthing now. So I published my
(03:25):
first one, which was that, andthat's I used to tell people, it
was like a memoir of my life.
But it isn't necessarily quitelike that. I've kind of shifted
gears to describe it more asjust a combination of really
valuable lessons that werehumbling and humoring and
embarrassing and motivationaland all of these amazing things
(03:45):
that I think would probably bepretty helpful to anyone who is
about 20 and trying to figurestuff out. But that was really
fun. Then I have a couple otherones. I've got one all about how
to hire employees withintensity, integrity and
intentionality. So how do youfind that in an employee? And
how do you, how do you actuallyhire them, and what does that
(04:06):
look like in an interview? Andhow do you ask questions around
that? Then we've got another onefor employees, which is how to
find a job. How do you, how doyou go out into this
marketplace? How do you dressprofessionally? How do you
physically shake somebody's handif you've never done it before.
How do you properly format yourjob description type, type of
things? And then there's anotherone that is a accidental
(04:29):
leadership book. So that is forsomebody who went through school
and immediately came out ofschool and started working, and
they didn't necessarily get aneducation, per se, but over
time, all of the employeesaround them have just come to
them because they're like,you're you've been here. What do
I do here? And they've naturallyformed into this leader, but
(04:50):
they don't have any training forit, and they don't necessarily
know how to use all of the toolsthat are available to them, so
it's kind of putting all ofthose different tools into a
really applicable and easy wayto reach them. So when someone
comes to you and they're like, Ineed help with you're like,
great, I have this book.
David Turetsky (05:06):
That's great.
Hannah Dannecker (05:06):
Help me, help me figure it out. And then the
newest one, the one I'm mostrecently so excited about, and
gets me so pumped, is a kidsbook. And it's my first kids
book, and it is going to be,ideally, a series in the future,
but the hope is to try and helpkids understand the joy of what
jobs truly are. I think sooftentimes adults talk to kids
(05:30):
about work, and they talk aboutit like it's a crappy thing. Oh,
I have to go to work today, or Ihave to get up tomorrow morning
or whatever, and we're settingthem up for failure! Because
Because work and careers, theycan be amazing, they can be
beautiful things that people cando with their lives. But if
we're teaching kids to hate thembefore they even know what they
truly are, it's gonna, it'sgonna create this negative
(05:52):
approach to it that I think isnot the best you know as they're
starting and so this onespecifically, I talk about
transportation and driving atruck, and what does it mean to
be a truck driver, and what doesthat look like? But hopefully,
like I said, it will turn into avery long series of all the
different types of careers andopportunities that kids could
(06:12):
truly grasp, but in a way thatis fun and entertaining for them
to come to. So
David Turetsky (06:18):
Well that's awesome.
Dwight Brown (06:19):
That's cool.
Hannah Dannecker (06:19):
Sorry, such a long explanation, so many books!
David Turetsky (06:22):
No that's okay.
We'll provide links to yourbooks in the show notes.
Hannah Dannecker (06:25):
Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely.
David Turetsky (06:26):
But before we continue, we need to know what's
one fun thing that no one knowsabout Hannah?
Hannah Dannecker (06:33):
One fun thing that no one knows about Hannah
is that she has a buttoncollection. I love buttons. I
think there's
Dwight Brown (06:43):
Button collection?
Hannah Dannecker (06:44):
Yeah, so random. I just saw it the other
day while I was at home, at myparents house. It's been there
for 22 23 years. I started whenI was just a baby. I thought
that they were so cute and tiny.
Dwight Brown (06:56):
Do you keep the buttons in a box, or do you have
a display board, or what?
Hannah Dannecker (07:00):
No, they're just in a box. There's, they
bring me joy every time I seethem, like it's my buttons.
There's literally no rhyme orreason to it. It's just funny.
Dwight Brown (07:08):
I love it.
David Turetsky (07:08):
I gotta be honest with you, I love that
too, and I've had collections ofthings like that for for a long
time. And when you move fromhouse to house, when you
graduate from your parents houseand they get left there and your
parents decide that it's time tothrow them away without you
knowing about it.
Hannah Dannecker (07:30):
Oh yeah
David Turetsky (07:31):
yeah, there's that.
Dwight Brown (07:33):
Yeah.
Hannah Dannecker (07:34):
It will happen, I'm sure eventually. But
David Turetsky (07:38):
Well, and we're going to leave that right where
it is, because we've all gotcollections of stuff, and people
are now thinking to themselves,where did I put that collection
of things?
Hannah Dannecker (07:49):
That random little box that you love so
much, for sure.
David Turetsky (07:52):
Exactly. Today, though, we have a topic that's
near and dear to a lot ofpeople's hearts, because it has
a lot of impact on a very largeportion of the workforce. And
it's a large portion of theworkforce that has been
traditionally, I will call itundervalued in many ways, and
(08:14):
we're going to talk about theimpact to the world of females
in male dominated industries.
Hannah Dannecker (08:21):
I'm so excited. It's going to be such a
great chat.
David Turetsky (08:32):
Well, our first question, Hannah, is, how did
you end up in transportation andlogistics? It's a very male
dominated industry!
Hannah Dannecker (08:38):
Absolutely. So I ended up in transportation and
logistics. I tell people that Iteethed on transportation. So my
my father owns transportationcompany, revolution staffing,
and we help find truck driversfor companies who can't find
them. And he has owned thatbusiness, it was the first one
he started that I grew upwatching grow. And I fell in
(09:02):
love with, there's a there's atrucking show called Truck
World, and they do it everyother year. And I grew up going
to this, this conference, thistrade show that you would walk
around. And I used to explain itto people, kind of like the
coolest jungle gym for a kid togo to, because you go, you know,
kids love trucks. They seetrucks on the highway. They do
(09:24):
that. They do the whole thedouble arm toot. Yeah, they want
to get them. They think they'rereally cool. But hardly ever
does a kid have the opportunityto actually go up and touch it
and go up and climb into it andhold the wheel and understand
the enormity of what thosethings are, because trucks, they
look cool from a distance. Youknow they're pulling something.
(09:46):
You're like, Wow, that's great.
It's a truck on the road. I'veseen them every day. I see them
all the time, but you don'treally, truly come to value it.
But then so I fell in love withlike, the shine of the industry
as a kid. I thought it was cool.
I thought that it was sparkly.
And then in the midst of COVID,I never expected to go into
transportation. I never reallythought that it was going to be
(10:07):
the home for me. But then in themidst of COVID, like most people
in a family business in apandemic, you do what you have
to do. So I started working forthe family business and leaning
into it. And I absolutely fellin love with it. I fell in love
with the concept of whattransportation is. It literally
helps the entire economy moveand function every day.
David Turetsky (10:31):
Oh, sure!
Hannah Dannecker (10:31):
Every everything you love, everything
you see, everything you touchand feel and eat, it arrives on
a truck. Everything you put onyour body, it arrives on a
truck, everything you put yourhead on that you get comfortable
in, like everything.
Dwight Brown (10:45):
your buttons.
Hannah Dannecker (10:46):
Yeah, my buttons! They all came on
trucks! And so this, this joy,this passion, is not shared with
many kids, is as for any career,is hardly shared with kids, let
alone transportation to females,or just male dominated
industries to females. And so Istarted, in the midst of the
(11:07):
pandemic, to see the true valuebehind what it really was, and
not just the cool, shinysurface. And as soon as I saw
that, I mean, I was bought infor life. There was there was no
getting rid of me from there.
David Turetsky (11:18):
Well, when I went to Penn State, we actually
had a logistics major, and Iknew of, because I was friends
with, many females that wereactually part of that. Because
Logistics was math! It wassolving problems. It was being
able to to move supplies around,and be able to figure out
(11:39):
problems that were extremelydifficult to do. So, so there's
that part of it, which is just,you know, very math based, very
logical.
Hannah Dannecker (11:48):
Puzzles.
David Turetsky (11:48):
And they were perfect fits for it, that all my
friends, they were like, theywere brilliant. They could have
been economists, but they choseto go into logistics because
they wanted to apply math to aspecific function.
Hannah Dannecker (11:59):
Yeah, that's, that's, that's cool. I wonder,
do you know kind of what thepercent was male to female ratio
in that, course? I'm curious.
David Turetsky (12:07):
Oh, it must have been like 80/20 very male
dominated, but, but still, therewas a very strong group, and
they were highly sought out.
Hannah Dannecker (12:17):
That's, that's great, yeah. I mean, females
naturally have a set ofcharacteristics. Men and women,
typically, just by nature, havea set of characteristics that
are really valuable. Andfemales, specifically in
transportation, just like whatyou said, so undervalued.
They're looked at,unfortunately, as if they have
(12:38):
little to offer. However, whenthey come in and they have the
education background now, justjust a female in general, has so
much to offer the transportationindustry. But, I mean, when you
put on top of that, somebody whoalso has the background for it,
that person's gonna struggle tonot have work. Yeah, they'll
(12:59):
struggle to be born, right?
David Turetsky (13:01):
I mean, we've seen, especially in the drivers
category, that obviously verymale dominated. But we have seen
that because there's been such aand maybe, maybe there's a
question for you. Has it beenbecause we can't find enough
drivers, especially CDLs, theones that actually have the
certifications and the licensurethat they've gone looking in
(13:25):
other directions?
Hannah Dannecker (13:27):
I'm sorry. I just, I want to make sure I
understand your questioncorrectly. Are you asking? Are
we seeing more females becauseof the driver shortage?
David Turetsky (13:35):
Yeah
Hannah Dannecker (13:35):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, lots of companies. I think
there's a couple differentreasons that we're seeing more
females. I think it's 2024 andcompanies are coming to
understand the true value thathas not always been prioritized
in the last decades. You know,like in the 90s, it wasn't as
popular to want a female driver,and now people are seeing the
(13:57):
stats of female drivers. I mean,bringing a female into
transportation is one thing.
Bringing a female into a truckis also a whole other thing. The
industry at large, behind thewheel, under the hood or at a
desk, females are valuable. Butadditionally, even more than
that, female truck drivers are,I mean, incredible. Their safety
(14:18):
ratings are fantastic. They aregreat. They are dedicated,
they're diligent, like they'rejust, they're really, really
good employees. And so I thinkthat a nature of the it's 2024,
people are coming to desire tochange the difference between
male dominated industries. Theydon't want them to be as male
dominated, just by perception asthey have in the past. But then
(14:41):
also, yes, there is a drivershortage, and there will
continue to be a drivershortage. And anyone who is
proactively looking at what theycan and should be doing about
that should be looking atfemales as an opportunity that
they're missing, for sure.
Dwight Brown (14:55):
Do you see a greater proportion of females in
the back office functions thanyou do the driver functions?
Hannah Dannecker (15:02):
Oh, yeah, I and I wish I had the percents
for you, and it would be kind ofdifferent anywhere that you go
based on what they're hauling.
Some companies really struggle.
Like, ready mix drivers reallystruggle to get female truck
drivers, because it's concrete,right? Like, that's, it's just a
whole different ballgamecompared to a flatbed, which is
(15:25):
just like it's very separate.
And so I don't have the exactpercent for you, but yes, in the
office, you see lots and lotsmore females than than truck
drivers who are activelydriving. And lots of drivers who
had been female driversoriginally had come in, started
working somewhere, say, in awarehouse then they got trained
to be a driver, and they gotpromoted, and now they're in the
(15:47):
back office. Lots of people whopromote themselves there, kind
of as they grow through theircareers as well.
David Turetsky (15:54):
But Hannah, if you look, kind of look at the
different, because you startedmentioning the differences in
what a driver is because thedriver isn't just a driver and a
driver because there's lots ofdifferences. There's long haul,
there's short haul, there'sdelivery, there's so many
things. And you know, for thoseof us who you know, get UPS and
Amazon packages every momentthere's a female driver who you
(16:16):
know takes the packages off. Youknow, more than in my case, I
think it's more than half thetime. But there are lots of
different careers in the drivingindustry, in logistics and
transportation. Where do you seethe most penetration from female
drivers? Is it in long haul? Isit in more short term? Where is
(16:38):
it?
Hannah Dannecker (16:39):
Yeah, I would say most drivers, most female
drivers, are looking forsomething that is local, so just
LTL work. They want to besleeping in their bed every
single night. And then most ofthem are looking really just for
nine to fives. We find it's, Iwould say, more schedule, less
(17:00):
skill based for females.
Typically, people are lookingfor jobs based on their skill
level, which as they should beabsolutely I think for a lot of
female drivers, they're lookingfor their jobs based on the
schedule, just like I said, ofwhat that looks like. Drivers
really often, will prioritize a,oh my gosh. It's a Monday to
(17:24):
Friday. It's nine to five. It'sconsistent work. It's dedicated,
like the dedicated freights forthem are really valuable. And
females, by nature, are lookingfor something that's a little
bit more reliable. I think wesee, yeah, more of a desire for
something that is consistentfrom them, whereas somewhere,
someone else, might be more opento taking just a long haul or
(17:48):
one off shift or something likethat that's not as consistent.
Dwight Brown (17:54):
Is it a lot like other industries, where a lot of
that is due to the familyorientation and the roles of the
female and in the family. Isthat kind of the big driver
behind that?
Hannah Dannecker (18:06):
Yeah, I would say that that has a massive part
to do with it. And there is alsothis other section that's just
about safety. Being on the roadat night, not as easy. Being on
the road at night as a female,not as easy. There's a really
big problem around just, whereare they sleeping? Where are
they staying? Can they use therestroom? If they have to use
(18:26):
the restroom in the middle ofthe night, do they then have to
move to a different lot becausethey feel unsafe because people
saw them walking through?
There's a lot of stuff around,just evenings and what can and
should be done. And some femaleshave absolutely no problems with
it. Some females are still happyto do it, and they are not
scared, and they don't feel anydanger whatsoever, and that's
phenomenal. And some females area complete opposite of that, and
(18:49):
they love what they do, but theyunderstand that, that there are
some risks that come with that,and they keep a very stiff arm
to them. So yeah, differentpeople, different boundaries.
But that's that's kind of, Iwould say, work, home life. They
like to be home for their kids.
They like the even if they don'thave kids, if they don't have
(19:10):
families, they still like thesame consistent nine to five
that they've experienced inother careers is also plays a
piece with it. But that safetyis, is, is a significant factor
as well, I would say.
David Turetsky (19:22):
So to follow up on that, do you see this as a
gig work economy as well asbeing a normal nine to five job?
Or do you see this more as a youknow, it's a career. You're in
it, or you're not.
Hannah Dannecker (19:34):
It is a career. It is a career. There
are some drivers who are gigdrivers, and you can be an Uber
driver, and that's amazing. Youcan deliver food for people, and
that's phenomenal. And even somepeople who are getting, like
what you said, into FedEx orAmazon deliveries, you can have
a small license. You don't haveto have a ton of experience. But
(19:55):
a professional truck driver isexactly that, they are a
professional. It is a career,and they should be deemed as
such, I would say.
Announcer (20:04):
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Salary.com. Now, back to theshow.
David Turetsky (20:15):
Let's get to the next question, because this is
going to be a fascinating one aswell. So you ever consider
leaving the industry, and whywould? Why wouldn't you what,
what's gotten you to stay?
What's what's been thestickiness here?
Hannah Dannecker (20:27):
Well, a huge part of it has to do with I come
from a family business, and Iget to work, I get to work with
my brothers. I get to work withmy father. I get to wake up
every day and get on a call withall of my family and say, How
are you guys doing this morning,and what are we doing? And how
can we help each other? So thereis a really, really big part of
that, that is, this is myfamily, and I was raised in it,
(20:48):
and I absolutely love it. And soI I can't not touch on that,
because it is such a significantpiece. But also, when you start
working in transportation andyou start driving down the
highway, something happens toyou, where you become so much
more aware of everything that'struly being moved you see all of
(21:11):
the trucks, you see all of thenames, you see all of the
brands. You understand reallywhat's moving past you, and you
start to grow in yourappreciation for it. So not only
am I working nine to five, butevery moment of the day, I'm
seeing how what I get to do eachday helps the world turn in so
many ways, right. Like i i runto Starbucks and I see I'm gonna
(21:34):
get that coffee, and I know thatthat cream was delivered because
a driver delivered it, becausethat was what they were doing,
and that got me the first thingthat made me smile today. And
that's beautiful, because I'mone of however many people that
that is serving, and it, it justit doesn't turn off. Everywhere
you look, there is somethingthat was delivered by a truck
(21:57):
and something beautiful thatcame from that on the other
side. And that, I mean, yes,transportation, my gosh,
transportation is hard. Being inthe logistics industry is not
for the week of heart. It is a24/7 365, Thanksgiving,
Christmas. It doesn't matter.
You still have drivers on theroad, and so it's exhausting.
And sometimes I get tired. Iwon't, I won't say, I don't.
(22:21):
Sometimes I'm like, oh, thatmarketing degree at that
corporate law firm looks realnice sometimes, but hardly ever,
definitely not in comparison,yeah, yeah, it's, it's a
passion.
Dwight Brown (22:37):
I get the sense that there's a whole community
feeling that goes with it aswell, just based on what you're
saying and just sort of myobservations. Is that accurate?
Hannah Dannecker (22:48):
Oh my gosh, absolutely! The community behind
the logistics industry isinsane. Like I'm I have two
events that I'm going to thisThursday, and then my father,
Dave, who's our owner, he hasthree events he's attending this
week. And, I mean, it's just oneof the weeks, one of the random
weeks, and one of the months ofthe year, and it's, and then
(23:10):
there's, there's five industryevents just this week already.
And so it's big. There's a lotof players, and they all want a
piece of it. So there's lots ofevents going on consistently.
But then, just like what Iexplained that, like passion
behind truly what we're doing,most of us have it. It's, it's
not as not a group of people whocome to take a check every week.
(23:32):
It's a group of people who comebecause they have a passion. And
when a bunch of people trulyhave a passion, and you're in a
community with one another, Imean, like the friendships, the
networking, it's, it's, yeah,it's pretty great. I can't say
comparatively. I don't want tospeak. I don't know every other
industry, but it's got reallydeep roots compared to what I
(23:53):
would imagine most others.
David Turetsky (23:55):
Hannah, one of the things that probably hurts
the industry, most of all, isbecause it's so economy based
the pace of the economy, whetherit's slowing or whether it's
it's going gangbusters, reallyhas a gigantic effect on the use
of the transportation network.
And the transportation networkisn't just trucks, it's also a
railroad. It's boats. And wejust saw that there was going to
(24:18):
be this port strike in the eastthat was going to basically shut
down everything across theentire US. So I guess the
question is, how do youwithstand some of those really
heavy economic cycles that isthe really disturbing,
especially if someone's buyinginto, you know, being in the
logistics industry, being in thetransportation industry, it
(24:40):
probably more than any otherindustry, is so reliant on
everything just working, andwhen it doesn't, it gets hurt
real bad, right?
Hannah Dannecker (24:54):
Absolutely like tangibly, how, how do we,
how do we logistically gothrough it? Or. Or emotionally,
like, how do we bounce back fromthe frustration of that? Sorry,
I'm not quite sure I understand.
David Turetsky (25:06):
So there's a lot of I guess you have to have a
lot of flexibility when you'rein the transportation and
logistics world, because yourjob, your role, the hours you
work, is so dependent upon theeconomy. So how you work, how
much you work, is based onthings that have absolutely you
have no control over. So ifthere's that port strike, you're
(25:28):
not moving anything, you're notmoving cattle, you're not moving
milk, you're not moving anythingbecause there's nothing to move.
Or one of your largest clientslaid off a whole bunch of people
and they're not buying.
Hannah Dannecker (25:41):
Yeah.
David Turetsky (25:42):
So my question is, how do people in that
industry stay so positive, stayso energized, when really it's
the the ability to work isn'tunder your control?
Hannah Dannecker (25:54):
Yeah. Okay, thank you for for clarifying.
That makes a lot of sense. So,it's hard. I'm not gonna, I'm
not gonna sugarcoat that foryou. Transportation, gosh, it's,
it's a challenging thing to be apart of. And we've had days in
the past where we've had amassive client that gets shut
down, and you're like, oh,that's gonna be a significant
(26:18):
deal. And so part of it is, isexperience, is knowing that
we've experienced that in thepast and then intentionally
saying, what the heck do we doabout that? So it's not having
any of our clients be 100% ofour business or 50% of our
business. It's having multipleof them work in collaboration to
(26:38):
help build a significant base.
So there is, there is somethrough, through time, through
years, you will grow asignificant enough base that
when that happens, because it'snot an if. You're right, the
economy turns, the economychanges, cycles transition,
things happen, and sometimesthat sucks, and you really just
(27:00):
have to be aware that it will becoming, and intentionally and
intensely prepare for it kind ofpreemptively, so that you have
in that moment, the stability tostep back and say, hey, that's
unfortunate. I'm sad that thisis happening, but we've probably
planned for this. So what arethe next steps. What do we do?
And then it's diversifying,right? So we've got
(27:22):
transportation. We LOVERevolution Staffing. Revolution
Staffing is my father's likebusiness baby like that was what
he started when he was young,and he has grown it, and it is a
phenomenal thing. But then wehave essential staffing, and
they do office, and we have helpunlimited, and they do labor,
(27:42):
and we've got consulting for theother division. So it is having
other opportunities and andmaking sure that while, yes, you
are niche, and you dotransportation, whatever that
looks like, for which everylistener is listening, depending
on which role you're in, butthen you don't corner yourself
in there. You don't leaveyourself there forever. And so
(28:03):
that, as that happens, like yousaid, you can't, you can't keep
it from happening, but as ithappens, you have other things
to lean on, so it's not sooverwhelming or all
encompassing. I would suggest.
Dwight Brown (28:16):
A lot of risk management via diversification.
Hannah Dannecker (28:19):
Absolutely.
David Turetsky (28:21):
Hey, are you listening to this and thinking
to yourself, Man, I wish I couldtalk to David about this. Well,
you're in luck. We have aspecial offer for listeners of
the HR Data Labs podcast, a freehalf hour call with me about any
of the topics we cover on thepodcast or whatever is on your
mind. Go tosalary.com/hrdlconsulting to
(28:43):
schedule your free 30 minutecall today.
So let's hit on question numberthree, which is really kind of
one of the keys for what we weregoing to be talking about today.
Why are you so passionate abouthelping bring more females into
this male dominated industry?
Hannah Dannecker (28:58):
Because it's the best! It's so good! It is so
good. So even though the wholeconcept of the economy turning
and the there's there's a littlebit of doomsday around that,
like, yes, it is unfortunatethat that turns and that we are
in not the best spot right now,but as you look at the past 500
(29:19):
years, that'll happen, andeventually it will correct
again, and we will come back outthe other side. And so when you
look at transportation, it isstable. Yes, there are ports
that will shut, yes, there arecompanies, unfortunately, that
will close their doors. And thathappens every once in a while,
because not everybody is goingto be successful, and failure is
(29:42):
inevitable. But if you look atit just in like a grandiose
perspective, a female who comesinto the transportation industry
will not struggle to find a job,if you and I say that with the
caveat of if you suck as anemployee and you don't show up
to work and you call in sickevery single day and you don't
(30:03):
finish your duties and you don'tattend your meetings. I don't
want to speak to that person.
That's your own personal, that'syour own thing. But if a human
who is a good, diligentemployee, who wants to work hard
and wants to support theiremployer comes into the
transportation industry and islooking for work, it's going to
be really, really easy for themto find a job because A they're
(30:23):
everybody's looking for them.
They're looking for somebody whocan come in, who's different,
who's unique to their companyculture, who can help shape and
change and shift. I have lots ofcompanies right now who are
doing massive female pushes,looking for female drivers, and
so it's not going to be hard foryou to find something. And even
(30:46):
if the company that you connectwith doesn't have a job for you,
the industry at large is goodenough. And I don't want to use
the word comfortable enough, butthe network is so solid that
they'll find you somethingsomewhere else. We'll be like,
Hey, I'm so sorry. Let me wrapmy arm around you and bring you
in and help you find a differentplace toland.
David Turetsky (31:05):
By the way, figuratively wrap their arms
around you, not literally wrap.
Okay, just want to check
Hannah Dannecker (31:10):
Yes, figuratively, figuratively
wrapped.
Dwight Brown (31:12):
Good clarification, yes,
David Turetsky (31:14):
I'm sorry.
Hannah Dannecker (31:15):
But take, take you under their wing was the was
the way I was getting to
David Turetsky (31:20):
Figurative language. But do you see the
pushback on the whole DEIinitiatives that you know, it's
been called woke in some ways,which you know, you can tell by
the look on my face thelisteners can't, but I think
that's a bunch of horse crap.
But the ability to make yourworkforce look like the market
(31:44):
around you. There's nothingwrong with that. In fact, that's
what we should be alwaysstriving for. Do you see any
pushback that has changed maybethat a little bit?
Hannah Dannecker (31:59):
I think that for the most part, the
transportation industry,specifically in the last five
years. And I am a Canadian basedcompany. I live in the US, but
our business is originally basedout of Canada, and so this is
more based on Canadianstatistics. I'm still learning a
(32:20):
lot about the US, and we have adriver division there, but that
is not history that I amincredibly knowledgeable about,
so I'll speak just to Canadianbut I would say in the last 10
years, there has been a lot offederations that have been
created that have really helpedthe movement of the female
dominated problem. There's beenthe women trucking Federation of
(32:44):
Canada, and then Trucking HR andone more that I can't remember
just off the top of my head,that have all kind of come
together in the last decade, andthey have brought the community
together in a way that is beenreally valuable, because they're
bringing females into the roomand they're bringing males into
(33:04):
the room, but they're puttingfemales up on stage, and that
doesn't happen very often.
Typically, you'll go to aconference and you'll have a
conference lineup, and it'sgoing to be 80 90% male
speakers, and then they will,they will have the others, and
they will, they will try todiversify, but it is not
necessarily the equal balance.
(33:27):
So, but these organizations arepredominantly female, female
led, female run, and they've hada lot of really good male
attendees, so males who arecoming and listening. And so,
because that happened about 10years ago, and then COVID, which
I can't believe is almost,nearly five years ago now, is
(33:50):
insane to think about, but thatkind of 10 years ago got them
starting to think and startingto function in the way that,
okay, we need to make a change.
And then five years ago, in themiddle of the pandemic, a ton of
stuff happened withtransportation and with truck
drivers, and specifically aroundjust their rights and what they
should be given as a human. Andit got back to a place because
(34:13):
they were taking bathrooms awayfrom drivers. They were saying,
No, you can't go in there. No,you can't go do anything. And it
got to a spot where they wereunderstanding not just what
drivers were experiencing, butwhat females had been
experiencing for all of theyears to come. For so long,
there was male change rooms andmale bathrooms and male male
stuff that the male truckdrivers could use, and the
(34:38):
females were either sayingsorry, go find another place, or
you can use the guy's room, andthat's fine, but again, with
safety, you need to reallyadjust what that genuinely is
putting that female in danger ofor just putting that female in a
place of uncomfortable like,like for a girl to step into a
male's change room and and getready there. That's not super
(35:00):
fun for them, or the femaleshowers at a truck stop, or
whatever that is. So after that,they started thinking about it,
right? And then the five yearstransition, and then they all
got put back to the ground base,and I think that in that spot, a
lot of the men were able to go,whoa. Females have been
experiencing this forever. Andthen as they corrected that, and
they came back out of it.
(35:21):
There's been a massive, at leastin my perception, there's been a
massive pivot in creating moreequality to the resources that
are available, specifically todrivers, which is where we see
the main problems.
Dwight Brown (35:32):
So you're you're not seeing as much pushback as
you might have seen in the pastfrom the males against the
females. Then no, no, there are.
Hannah Dannecker (35:42):
There are northern places and some
southern places, you know,southern US, northern Canada,
that push back. In some ways,for sure, there will always be
people who are pushing back. ButI would say, as a majority, as a
community, it's not beenproblematic.
Dwight Brown (35:59):
You've really seen a shift from what it used to be?
Hannah Dannecker (36:02):
Yeah
Dwight Brown (36:02):
That makes sense.
David Turetsky (36:04):
So to summarize, what you're basically saying is
the transportation industry ismuch more friendly, much more
welcoming, much more open tofemale participants today than
it's ever been in its history.
Hannah Dannecker (36:19):
Yes
David Turetsky (36:19):
And that there's lots of opportunities that that
are now open for female drivers,as well as female back office
workers as well as the logisticsindustry and coming in, you
know, try it, and you might finda home for life.
Hannah Dannecker (36:36):
Absolutely, absolutely, that's exactly what
I'm saying.
David Turetsky (36:39):
Yeah. I mean, I'd love to see some statistics
on that, and especially see howthings have transitioned over
the years. Because, you know, weall know that it was such a male
dominated industry, especiallyin the 80s and 90s. And I do
know you're absolutely rightthat there, there are, there are
many more females in thoseindustries today, and I'm hoping
(37:01):
it improves even more, but I'dlove to see those statistics get
better.
Hannah Dannecker (37:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious from
from you guys, what's yourperception of truck drivers and
the, the industry? I kind of preCOVID I'd be interested to know
and now, and has it changed atall? Have you guys seen that?
Because you're right. It likethe the and they're minute
(37:26):
numbers. I think that in 2000 itwas about 3% of females as
drivers, and I think today it'sabout 7% of drivers. So we've,
we've had a doubling thestatistics there, but not
significantly. Do you feel likeit's a safe, a good role? If you
(37:49):
had a daughter, would you everencourage her to be a truck
driver? Or how would that playout for the two of you?
Dwight Brown (37:56):
You know, my perception has sort of morphed
over time. I actually, I wasborn in the 70s, and there was a
movie from 1978 called convoy,and it was all a bunch of white
males and, and I, I was one ofthose starry eyed kids. It's
like, I want to be a truckdriver. And, and then seeing it
(38:18):
through the years, and, and nowjust going, you know, stopping
at truck stops, during roadtrips and stuff like that, one
of the things that I've observedhas been more diversity, not
just gender diversity, butethnicity diversity with
truckers. I gotta say, Would Iencourage my daughter to become
(38:40):
a truck driver? Gotta say,probably not, just because of
the safety factor. That's thepiece that I would worry about,
is everything that you've talkedabout, about the safety aspect
of things. I would absolutelyencourage her from a career
standpoint, and if she, if she,that's what she wanted to do,
(39:03):
but I would worry like hell asparent with her out there on the
road, to be perfectly honestwith you,
Hannah Dannecker (39:10):
I appreciate the transparency, if you don't
mind me asking, what would you,because this is a big part of
what I do, right? Like I, I wantto help people understand the
value of what truly is there tobe to be done. What would you
have to see change, or whatwould you have to see transition
(39:30):
to be like? Oh, that that looksor that seems like a viable
option!
Dwight Brown (39:36):
I don't think it's as much a matter of what I would
have to see change as much as Iwould have to work on undoing my
perception of the of the safetyfactor when she's out on the
road, you know, stopping at arest stop to catch some sleep
(39:59):
and the dangers that you thatyou hear of on the news. You
know, those kinds of things juststick in the back of my head. So
it's not as much a matter ofbeing able to pinpoint something
that, that I can say, if I sawchange here, I would feel better
about it. It's a, you know, I'm,I'm far enough in years that
(40:23):
I've got all of these years ofseeing these things, you know,
and granted, I know that to someextent it's kind of ridiculous,
because I'm just focusing onwhat you see in the news, which
is obviously going to be theworst case scenario, oftentimes.
But you know, it's, it's likeanything with your kids and
(40:45):
worrying about your kids andwhat they're doing, you know,
seeing, seeing one of my kidsbecome a cop, for example, and
worrying about what goes withthat. So I don't have a good
straight answer for you. Youknow, it's, there's a lot of
history that kind of factorsinto it. But I will say that
(41:06):
with with seeing the greaterdiversity in the industry, just
through the little bit that I'veobserved it, you know, it has
morphed my thinking to a certainextent. But as a father, I'm
always going to be, I'm alwaysgoing to be worried if,
Hannah Dannecker (41:22):
Yeah
Dwight Brown (41:23):
if my kids are in a job that has, you know, risk
of some type that goes with it.
Hannah Dannecker (41:30):
Yeah, that's fair. I think, I think that
humans are concerned for humans,right? Like, the concept is you
wear your heart on your sleeve,your your daughter, your child,
your significant other, nomatter who it is, your parent,
regardless, you're still goingto care and have to fear for
them. I think regardless of whatthey're doing, even if it's
(41:51):
like, I'm a salesperson, youknow, I get to walk into
businesses all the time. That'snot a scary thing. But also,
right? I walk into 50 businessesall the time, and just, it just
takes one! So it is like, it isthe nature, it is funny to go
down the line of, okay, likethere is genuine danger and
(42:11):
risk, and then how do youmitigate that, and what do you
do? But then there's genuinedanger and risk in everyday
life, and so,
Dwight Brown (42:18):
right,
Hannah Dannecker (42:19):
how do you just continue to move forward?
But yeah, it is a funny balanceto play. How about yourself,
David?
David Turetsky (42:26):
As we talked about before, I think there's
lots of different opportunitiesin the trucking and logistics
industry where I would certainlyencourage my kids to think about
those as careers, especiallygiven that the starting rates
for those careers have gonethrough the roof because we
can't find qualifiedindividuals. So it's a good
(42:46):
career, it looks like, well,it's a career that's never going
to go away. And it has potentialfor longer term growth,
depending upon how they want totake their careers. I don't
necessarily know if I agreenecessarily, and I don't need
to, his his thoughts are hisown, with Dwight, because you
(43:08):
could be driving down thehighway and, you know, something
happens anyways. So there's,there's always concerns like
that. My kid lives in New YorkCity, so crossing the street is
a, you know, a lottery.
Hannah Dannecker (43:22):
Sure.
David Turetsky (43:23):
So A lottery?
It's a lottery. You draw, drawthe short straw, you get hit by
a car.
Dwight Brown (43:29):
Rolling the dice here!
David Turetsky (43:31):
Well, I mean, you know, it's New York City,
right?
Dwight Brown (43:33):
It's true, yeah!
David Turetsky (43:35):
But, but so, so I don't necessarily agree,
because, to your point, Hannah,anything can happen. And so I
think it's an industry thatshould be looked at with now new
eyes, given that it hastransformed a little bit and
it's modernized a lot. Theequipment's modern. The
(43:55):
technologies that are employedare more modern. Heck, the
technologies to being in touchand be tracked are more modern.
Hannah Dannecker (44:03):
Oh, all of it! You're, I mean, as a truck
driver, for the most part,you're sitting in a cab where
you've got a camera facing youthat is watching everything you
do all the time now! Like it'sthe technology advancement is
insane, absolutely.
David Turetsky (44:16):
Well, and it's also everybody around you,
because, you know, you havethose pesky cars that are
cutting you off in front orthey're driving too close
behind, and I'm sure thatthere's tons of monitors, you
know, Collision Monitors, forthings like that. So I actually
think I would encourage my kidsto be a part of that. So to
(44:37):
answer your question a littlebit differently than my friend
Dwight,
Hannah Dannecker (44:40):
That's okay! I honestly, I love that you both
have different perspectives. Idon't love that Dwight still
thinks it's scary. You know,that's not, that's not the goal
we're going for. But just tohave to have the to have the
separation, yeah, I mean, it isa legitimate concern, like,
there, there is danger there. Idon't want to say that there
isn't, but where there isdanger, there is opportunity to
(45:00):
be safe as well. And so there's,there's the balance of how you
how you manage all of that.
David Turetsky (45:06):
Exactly.
Hannah, it's been fun. It's beenexciting. We've talked about a
new yet again, Dwight, anothercompletely net new topic that
we've never touched on before!
Dwight Brown (45:25):
Right? I love it.
David Turetsky (45:27):
So Hannah, thank you so much for joining the HR
Data Labs podcast. We appreciateit.
Hannah Dannecker (45:31):
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a
pleasure to join you guys, and Iappreciate you having me come
talk about drivers. I love theopportunity to.
David Turetsky (45:39):
And we appreciate you.
Dwight Brown (45:41):
Been a good, good glimpse on the industry. I
never, never knew existed.
Hannah Dannecker (45:45):
Yeah. Now, when you see the trucks on the
road next to you, you'll, you'lltell them to honk their horn,
and you'll know what's going on.
Dwight Brown (45:50):
I'll be doing like when I was a kid, they still
have the do? They still havethat where you pull on the
chain, and
Hannah Dannecker (45:57):
Some of them, it depends when they were made
for sure, but some of them gotit.
Dwight Brown (46:01):
Okay.
David Turetsky (46:02):
And for those of you who don't know the movie
reference to Convoy, that wasthere was a hit song that went
along with that movie as well,so check it out!
Dwight Brown (46:11):
I feel like we should integrate that into the
editing of podcast. Convoy! 10-4good buddy.
Hannah Dannecker (46:16):
I like it
David Turetsky (46:22):
Thank you again, Hannah, thank you Dwight and
everybody. Thank you forlistening. Take care and stay
safe.
Announcer (46:28):
That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the
episode, please subscribe. Andif you know anyone that might
like to hear it, please send ittheir way. Thank you for joining
us this week, and stay tuned forour next episode. Stay safe.
The world of business is more complex than ever. The
world of human resources andcompensation is also getting
more complex. Welcome to the HRData Labs podcast, your direct
source for the latest trendsfrom experts inside and outside
the world of human resources.
Listen as we explore the impactthat compensation strategy, data
and people analytics can have onyour organization. This podcast
(00:24):
is sponsored by Salary.com, yoursource for data technology and
consulting for compensation andbeyond. Now here are your hosts,
David Turetsky and Dwight Brown.
David Turetsky (00:38):
Hello and welcome to the HR Data Labs
podcast! I'm your host, DavidTuretsky, alongside my friend,
BFF, actually, partner,consultant at large, Dwight
Brown from Salary.com. Dwight,how are you?
Dwight Brown (00:51):
I'm great! How are you doing, David?
David Turetsky (00:54):
I'm okay! I'm okay, okay. But today I'm
outstanding, because today weget to talk to Hannah Dannecker.
Hannah, how are you?
Hannah Dannecker (01:02):
Doing very well, thank you. Doing doing
good.
David Turetsky (01:05):
So, Hannah, why don't you tell everyone a little
bit about yourself?
Hannah Dannecker (01:09):
Yeah. So I am the managing partner from the
Better Together Group ofCompanies. We are a group of
staffing agencies that helpcompanies find the employees
that they desperately need. Sowe've got a couple different
things that we do, drivers,labor and office. And then I
specifically also focus on theBetter Together Group consulting
side. A lot of a lot of that iswhere my where my heart kind of
(01:33):
comes out, and I love to be it'sgood to do the other things that
you're good at and fun to do thestuff that brings, brings you
joy. So where I find that isthrough, uh, lots of talking
about Generation Z. I givepresentations to mainly
employers, but HR professionals,and more recently, some parents,
(01:54):
some teachers, just oldergenerations who are trying to
understand who the heck Gen Zis, and how we are supposed to
communicate and collaborate withthem effectively. So that's,
that's kind of in a very bignutshell, who who I am and where
I come from.
David Turetsky (02:10):
Well, we're gonna have to talk afterwards so
I can connect with my Gen Zers.
So
Hannah Dannecker (02:14):
Absolutely! I look forward to it. I'll give
you every tip I can give you.
David Turetsky (02:18):
That's awesome.
You have a book out?
Hannah Dannecker (02:20):
I do! I do. I actually am just about to
release my fifth book, which iscrazy, I know.
David Turetsky (02:26):
Ooh! Tell us about them.
Hannah Dannecker (02:28):
Yeah. So I have my my very first one I
published. The name is and Idon't want to get you in
trouble. Are you a are you arated podcast? Can I swear on
your podcast?
David Turetsky (02:37):
You can swear, but don't use the F word.
Hannah Dannecker (02:39):
Okay, absolutely, I will not. So the
name of my first book is, Well,Shit. And the whole concept
behind this is, it's made forkids who are graduating high
school and graduatinguniversity, and they're going,
oh my gosh, what the heck do Ido now? Well, shit, it's time to
grow up. Like, what does thislook like? What are we doing?
How do we do this? And so thatstarted in the midst of COVID
(03:01):
and was originally a diary thatI had written for my someday
children to have just ofdifferent life lessons that I
had kind of learned anddifferent things that people in
my life had taught me. And thennaturally, because they were
lessons that other people hadtaught me, I wanted to put them
in paper so that I could shareit with those people. And by the
time I had typed it all out, Iwas like, Well, I mean, I'm
here. I'll publish the dangthing now. So I published my
(03:25):
first one, which was that, andthat's I used to tell people, it
was like a memoir of my life.
But it isn't necessarily quitelike that. I've kind of shifted
gears to describe it more asjust a combination of really
valuable lessons that werehumbling and humoring and
embarrassing and motivationaland all of these amazing things
(03:45):
that I think would probably bepretty helpful to anyone who is
about 20 and trying to figurestuff out. But that was really
fun. Then I have a couple otherones. I've got one all about how
to hire employees withintensity, integrity and
intentionality. So how do youfind that in an employee? And
how do you, how do you actuallyhire them, and what does that
(04:06):
look like in an interview? Andhow do you ask questions around
that? Then we've got another onefor employees, which is how to
find a job. How do you, how doyou go out into this
marketplace? How do you dressprofessionally? How do you
physically shake somebody's handif you've never done it before.
How do you properly format yourjob description type, type of
things? And then there's anotherone that is a accidental
(04:29):
leadership book. So that is forsomebody who went through school
and immediately came out ofschool and started working, and
they didn't necessarily get aneducation, per se, but over
time, all of the employeesaround them have just come to
them because they're like,you're you've been here. What do
I do here? And they've naturallyformed into this leader, but
(04:50):
they don't have any training forit, and they don't necessarily
know how to use all of the toolsthat are available to them, so
it's kind of putting all ofthose different tools into a
really applicable and easy wayto reach them. So when someone
comes to you and they're like, Ineed help with you're like,
great, I have this book.
David Turetsky (05:06):
That's great.
Hannah Dannecker (05:06):
Help me, help me figure it out. And then the
newest one, the one I'm mostrecently so excited about, and
gets me so pumped, is a kidsbook. And it's my first kids
book, and it is going to be,ideally, a series in the future,
but the hope is to try and helpkids understand the joy of what
jobs truly are. I think sooftentimes adults talk to kids
(05:30):
about work, and they talk aboutit like it's a crappy thing. Oh,
I have to go to work today, or Ihave to get up tomorrow morning
or whatever, and we're settingthem up for failure! Because
Because work and careers, theycan be amazing, they can be
beautiful things that people cando with their lives. But if
we're teaching kids to hate thembefore they even know what they
truly are, it's gonna, it'sgonna create this negative
(05:52):
approach to it that I think isnot the best you know as they're
starting and so this onespecifically, I talk about
transportation and driving atruck, and what does it mean to
be a truck driver, and what doesthat look like? But hopefully,
like I said, it will turn into avery long series of all the
different types of careers andopportunities that kids could
(06:12):
truly grasp, but in a way thatis fun and entertaining for them
to come to. So
David Turetsky (06:18):
Well that's awesome.
Dwight Brown (06:19):
That's cool.
Hannah Dannecker (06:19):
Sorry, such a long explanation, so many books!
David Turetsky (06:22):
No that's okay.
We'll provide links to yourbooks in the show notes.
Hannah Dannecker (06:25):
Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely.
David Turetsky (06:26):
But before we continue, we need to know what's
one fun thing that no one knowsabout Hannah?
Hannah Dannecker (06:33):
One fun thing that no one knows about Hannah
is that she has a buttoncollection. I love buttons. I
think there's
Dwight Brown (06:43):
Button collection?
Hannah Dannecker (06:44):
Yeah, so random. I just saw it the other
day while I was at home, at myparents house. It's been there
for 22 23 years. I started whenI was just a baby. I thought
that they were so cute and tiny.
Dwight Brown (06:56):
Do you keep the buttons in a box, or do you have
a display board, or what?
Hannah Dannecker (07:00):
No, they're just in a box. There's, they
bring me joy every time I seethem, like it's my buttons.
There's literally no rhyme orreason to it. It's just funny.
Dwight Brown (07:08):
I love it.
David Turetsky (07:08):
I gotta be honest with you, I love that
too, and I've had collections ofthings like that for for a long
time. And when you move fromhouse to house, when you
graduate from your parents houseand they get left there and your
parents decide that it's time tothrow them away without you
knowing about it.
Hannah Dannecker (07:30):
Oh yeah
David Turetsky (07:31):
yeah, there's that.
Dwight Brown (07:33):
Yeah.
Hannah Dannecker (07:34):
It will happen, I'm sure eventually. But
David Turetsky (07:38):
Well, and we're going to leave that right where
it is, because we've all gotcollections of stuff, and people
are now thinking to themselves,where did I put that collection
of things?
Hannah Dannecker (07:49):
That random little box that you love so
much, for sure.
David Turetsky (07:52):
Exactly. Today, though, we have a topic that's
near and dear to a lot ofpeople's hearts, because it has
a lot of impact on a very largeportion of the workforce. And
it's a large portion of theworkforce that has been
traditionally, I will call itundervalued in many ways, and
(08:14):
we're going to talk about theimpact to the world of females
in male dominated industries.
Hannah Dannecker (08:21):
I'm so excited. It's going to be such a
great chat.
David Turetsky (08:32):
Well, our first question, Hannah, is, how did
you end up in transportation andlogistics? It's a very male
dominated industry!
Hannah Dannecker (08:38):
Absolutely. So I ended up in transportation and
logistics. I tell people that Iteethed on transportation. So my
my father owns transportationcompany, revolution staffing,
and we help find truck driversfor companies who can't find
them. And he has owned thatbusiness, it was the first one
he started that I grew upwatching grow. And I fell in
(09:02):
love with, there's a there's atrucking show called Truck
World, and they do it everyother year. And I grew up going
to this, this conference, thistrade show that you would walk
around. And I used to explain itto people, kind of like the
coolest jungle gym for a kid togo to, because you go, you know,
kids love trucks. They seetrucks on the highway. They do
(09:24):
that. They do the whole thedouble arm toot. Yeah, they want
to get them. They think they'rereally cool. But hardly ever
does a kid have the opportunityto actually go up and touch it
and go up and climb into it andhold the wheel and understand
the enormity of what thosethings are, because trucks, they
look cool from a distance. Youknow they're pulling something.
(09:46):
You're like, Wow, that's great.
It's a truck on the road. I'veseen them every day. I see them
all the time, but you don'treally, truly come to value it.
But then so I fell in love withlike, the shine of the industry
as a kid. I thought it was cool.
I thought that it was sparkly.
And then in the midst of COVID,I never expected to go into
transportation. I never reallythought that it was going to be
(10:07):
the home for me. But then in themidst of COVID, like most people
in a family business in apandemic, you do what you have
to do. So I started working forthe family business and leaning
into it. And I absolutely fellin love with it. I fell in love
with the concept of whattransportation is. It literally
helps the entire economy moveand function every day.
David Turetsky (10:31):
Oh, sure!
Hannah Dannecker (10:31):
Every everything you love, everything
you see, everything you touchand feel and eat, it arrives on
a truck. Everything you put onyour body, it arrives on a
truck, everything you put yourhead on that you get comfortable
in, like everything.
Dwight Brown (10:45):
your buttons.
Hannah Dannecker (10:46):
Yeah, my buttons! They all came on
trucks! And so this, this joy,this passion, is not shared with
many kids, is as for any career,is hardly shared with kids, let
alone transportation to females,or just male dominated
industries to females. And so Istarted, in the midst of the
(11:07):
pandemic, to see the true valuebehind what it really was, and
not just the cool, shinysurface. And as soon as I saw
that, I mean, I was bought infor life. There was there was no
getting rid of me from there.
David Turetsky (11:18):
Well, when I went to Penn State, we actually
had a logistics major, and Iknew of, because I was friends
with, many females that wereactually part of that. Because
Logistics was math! It wassolving problems. It was being
able to to move supplies around,and be able to figure out
(11:39):
problems that were extremelydifficult to do. So, so there's
that part of it, which is just,you know, very math based, very
logical.
Hannah Dannecker (11:48):
Puzzles.
David Turetsky (11:48):
And they were perfect fits for it, that all my
friends, they were like, theywere brilliant. They could have
been economists, but they choseto go into logistics because
they wanted to apply math to aspecific function.
Hannah Dannecker (11:59):
Yeah, that's, that's, that's cool. I wonder,
do you know kind of what thepercent was male to female ratio
in that, course? I'm curious.
David Turetsky (12:07):
Oh, it must have been like 80/20 very male
dominated, but, but still, therewas a very strong group, and
they were highly sought out.
Hannah Dannecker (12:17):
That's, that's great, yeah. I mean, females
naturally have a set ofcharacteristics. Men and women,
typically, just by nature, havea set of characteristics that
are really valuable. Andfemales, specifically in
transportation, just like whatyou said, so undervalued.
They're looked at,unfortunately, as if they have
(12:38):
little to offer. However, whenthey come in and they have the
education background now, justjust a female in general, has so
much to offer the transportationindustry. But, I mean, when you
put on top of that, somebody whoalso has the background for it,
that person's gonna struggle tonot have work. Yeah, they'll
(12:59):
struggle to be born, right?
David Turetsky (13:01):
I mean, we've seen, especially in the drivers
category, that obviously verymale dominated. But we have seen
that because there's been such aand maybe, maybe there's a
question for you. Has it beenbecause we can't find enough
drivers, especially CDLs, theones that actually have the
certifications and the licensurethat they've gone looking in
(13:25):
other directions?
Hannah Dannecker (13:27):
I'm sorry. I just, I want to make sure I
understand your questioncorrectly. Are you asking? Are
we seeing more females becauseof the driver shortage?
David Turetsky (13:35):
Yeah
Hannah Dannecker (13:35):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, lots of companies. I think
there's a couple differentreasons that we're seeing more
females. I think it's 2024 andcompanies are coming to
understand the true value thathas not always been prioritized
in the last decades. You know,like in the 90s, it wasn't as
popular to want a female driver,and now people are seeing the
(13:57):
stats of female drivers. I mean,bringing a female into
transportation is one thing.
Bringing a female into a truckis also a whole other thing. The
industry at large, behind thewheel, under the hood or at a
desk, females are valuable. Butadditionally, even more than
that, female truck drivers are,I mean, incredible. Their safety
(14:18):
ratings are fantastic. They aregreat. They are dedicated,
they're diligent, like they'rejust, they're really, really
good employees. And so I thinkthat a nature of the it's 2024,
people are coming to desire tochange the difference between
male dominated industries. Theydon't want them to be as male
dominated, just by perception asthey have in the past. But then
(14:41):
also, yes, there is a drivershortage, and there will
continue to be a drivershortage. And anyone who is
proactively looking at what theycan and should be doing about
that should be looking atfemales as an opportunity that
they're missing, for sure.
Dwight Brown (14:55):
Do you see a greater proportion of females in
the back office functions thanyou do the driver functions?
Hannah Dannecker (15:02):
Oh, yeah, I and I wish I had the percents
for you, and it would be kind ofdifferent anywhere that you go
based on what they're hauling.
Some companies really struggle.
Like, ready mix drivers reallystruggle to get female truck
drivers, because it's concrete,right? Like, that's, it's just a
whole different ballgamecompared to a flatbed, which is
(15:25):
just like it's very separate.
And so I don't have the exactpercent for you, but yes, in the
office, you see lots and lotsmore females than than truck
drivers who are activelydriving. And lots of drivers who
had been female driversoriginally had come in, started
working somewhere, say, in awarehouse then they got trained
to be a driver, and they gotpromoted, and now they're in the
(15:47):
back office. Lots of people whopromote themselves there, kind
of as they grow through theircareers as well.
David Turetsky (15:54):
But Hannah, if you look, kind of look at the
different, because you startedmentioning the differences in
what a driver is because thedriver isn't just a driver and a
driver because there's lots ofdifferences. There's long haul,
there's short haul, there'sdelivery, there's so many
things. And you know, for thoseof us who you know, get UPS and
Amazon packages every momentthere's a female driver who you
(16:16):
know takes the packages off. Youknow, more than in my case, I
think it's more than half thetime. But there are lots of
different careers in the drivingindustry, in logistics and
transportation. Where do you seethe most penetration from female
drivers? Is it in long haul? Isit in more short term? Where is
(16:38):
it?
Hannah Dannecker (16:39):
Yeah, I would say most drivers, most female
drivers, are looking forsomething that is local, so just
LTL work. They want to besleeping in their bed every
single night. And then most ofthem are looking really just for
nine to fives. We find it's, Iwould say, more schedule, less
(17:00):
skill based for females.
Typically, people are lookingfor jobs based on their skill
level, which as they should beabsolutely I think for a lot of
female drivers, they're lookingfor their jobs based on the
schedule, just like I said, ofwhat that looks like. Drivers
really often, will prioritize a,oh my gosh. It's a Monday to
(17:24):
Friday. It's nine to five. It'sconsistent work. It's dedicated,
like the dedicated freights forthem are really valuable. And
females, by nature, are lookingfor something that's a little
bit more reliable. I think wesee, yeah, more of a desire for
something that is consistentfrom them, whereas somewhere,
someone else, might be more opento taking just a long haul or
(17:48):
one off shift or something likethat that's not as consistent.
Dwight Brown (17:54):
Is it a lot like other industries, where a lot of
that is due to the familyorientation and the roles of the
female and in the family. Isthat kind of the big driver
behind that?
Hannah Dannecker (18:06):
Yeah, I would say that that has a massive part
to do with it. And there is alsothis other section that's just
about safety. Being on the roadat night, not as easy. Being on
the road at night as a female,not as easy. There's a really
big problem around just, whereare they sleeping? Where are
they staying? Can they use therestroom? If they have to use
(18:26):
the restroom in the middle ofthe night, do they then have to
move to a different lot becausethey feel unsafe because people
saw them walking through?
There's a lot of stuff around,just evenings and what can and
should be done. And some femaleshave absolutely no problems with
it. Some females are still happyto do it, and they are not
scared, and they don't feel anydanger whatsoever, and that's
phenomenal. And some females area complete opposite of that, and
(18:49):
they love what they do, but theyunderstand that, that there are
some risks that come with that,and they keep a very stiff arm
to them. So yeah, differentpeople, different boundaries.
But that's that's kind of, Iwould say, work, home life. They
like to be home for their kids.
They like the even if they don'thave kids, if they don't have
(19:10):
families, they still like thesame consistent nine to five
that they've experienced inother careers is also plays a
piece with it. But that safetyis, is, is a significant factor
as well, I would say.
David Turetsky (19:22):
So to follow up on that, do you see this as a
gig work economy as well asbeing a normal nine to five job?
Or do you see this more as a youknow, it's a career. You're in
it, or you're not.
Hannah Dannecker (19:34):
It is a career. It is a career. There
are some drivers who are gigdrivers, and you can be an Uber
driver, and that's amazing. Youcan deliver food for people, and
that's phenomenal. And even somepeople who are getting, like
what you said, into FedEx orAmazon deliveries, you can have
a small license. You don't haveto have a ton of experience. But
(19:55):
a professional truck driver isexactly that, they are a
professional. It is a career,and they should be deemed as
such, I would say.
Announcer (20:04):
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David Turetsky (20:15):
Let's get to the next question, because this is
going to be a fascinating one aswell. So you ever consider
leaving the industry, and whywould? Why wouldn't you what,
what's gotten you to stay?
What's what's been thestickiness here?
Hannah Dannecker (20:27):
Well, a huge part of it has to do with I come
from a family business, and Iget to work, I get to work with
my brothers. I get to work withmy father. I get to wake up
every day and get on a call withall of my family and say, How
are you guys doing this morning,and what are we doing? And how
can we help each other? So thereis a really, really big part of
that, that is, this is myfamily, and I was raised in it,
(20:48):
and I absolutely love it. And soI I can't not touch on that,
because it is such a significantpiece. But also, when you start
working in transportation andyou start driving down the
highway, something happens toyou, where you become so much
more aware of everything that'struly being moved you see all of
(21:11):
the trucks, you see all of thenames, you see all of the
brands. You understand reallywhat's moving past you, and you
start to grow in yourappreciation for it. So not only
am I working nine to five, butevery moment of the day, I'm
seeing how what I get to do eachday helps the world turn in so
many ways, right. Like i i runto Starbucks and I see I'm gonna
(21:34):
get that coffee, and I know thatthat cream was delivered because
a driver delivered it, becausethat was what they were doing,
and that got me the first thingthat made me smile today. And
that's beautiful, because I'mone of however many people that
that is serving, and it, it justit doesn't turn off. Everywhere
you look, there is somethingthat was delivered by a truck
(21:57):
and something beautiful thatcame from that on the other
side. And that, I mean, yes,transportation, my gosh,
transportation is hard. Being inthe logistics industry is not
for the week of heart. It is a24/7 365, Thanksgiving,
Christmas. It doesn't matter.
You still have drivers on theroad, and so it's exhausting.
And sometimes I get tired. Iwon't, I won't say, I don't.
(22:21):
Sometimes I'm like, oh, thatmarketing degree at that
corporate law firm looks realnice sometimes, but hardly ever,
definitely not in comparison,yeah, yeah, it's, it's a
passion.
Dwight Brown (22:37):
I get the sense that there's a whole community
feeling that goes with it aswell, just based on what you're
saying and just sort of myobservations. Is that accurate?
Hannah Dannecker (22:48):
Oh my gosh, absolutely! The community behind
the logistics industry isinsane. Like I'm I have two
events that I'm going to thisThursday, and then my father,
Dave, who's our owner, he hasthree events he's attending this
week. And, I mean, it's just oneof the weeks, one of the random
weeks, and one of the months ofthe year, and it's, and then
(23:10):
there's, there's five industryevents just this week already.
And so it's big. There's a lotof players, and they all want a
piece of it. So there's lots ofevents going on consistently.
But then, just like what Iexplained that, like passion
behind truly what we're doing,most of us have it. It's, it's
not as not a group of people whocome to take a check every week.
(23:32):
It's a group of people who comebecause they have a passion. And
when a bunch of people trulyhave a passion, and you're in a
community with one another, Imean, like the friendships, the
networking, it's, it's, yeah,it's pretty great. I can't say
comparatively. I don't want tospeak. I don't know every other
industry, but it's got reallydeep roots compared to what I
(23:53):
would imagine most others.
David Turetsky (23:55):
Hannah, one of the things that probably hurts
the industry, most of all, isbecause it's so economy based
the pace of the economy, whetherit's slowing or whether it's
it's going gangbusters, reallyhas a gigantic effect on the use
of the transportation network.
And the transportation networkisn't just trucks, it's also a
railroad. It's boats. And wejust saw that there was going to
(24:18):
be this port strike in the eastthat was going to basically shut
down everything across theentire US. So I guess the
question is, how do youwithstand some of those really
heavy economic cycles that isthe really disturbing,
especially if someone's buyinginto, you know, being in the
logistics industry, being in thetransportation industry, it
(24:40):
probably more than any otherindustry, is so reliant on
everything just working, andwhen it doesn't, it gets hurt
real bad, right?
Hannah Dannecker (24:54):
Absolutely like tangibly, how, how do we,
how do we logistically gothrough it? Or. Or emotionally,
like, how do we bounce back fromthe frustration of that? Sorry,
I'm not quite sure I understand.
David Turetsky (25:06):
So there's a lot of I guess you have to have a
lot of flexibility when you'rein the transportation and
logistics world, because yourjob, your role, the hours you
work, is so dependent upon theeconomy. So how you work, how
much you work, is based onthings that have absolutely you
have no control over. So ifthere's that port strike, you're
(25:28):
not moving anything, you're notmoving cattle, you're not moving
milk, you're not moving anythingbecause there's nothing to move.
Or one of your largest clientslaid off a whole bunch of people
and they're not buying.
Hannah Dannecker (25:41):
Yeah.
David Turetsky (25:42):
So my question is, how do people in that
industry stay so positive, stayso energized, when really it's
the the ability to work isn'tunder your control?
Hannah Dannecker (25:54):
Yeah. Okay, thank you for for clarifying.
That makes a lot of sense. So,it's hard. I'm not gonna, I'm
not gonna sugarcoat that foryou. Transportation, gosh, it's,
it's a challenging thing to be apart of. And we've had days in
the past where we've had amassive client that gets shut
down, and you're like, oh,that's gonna be a significant
(26:18):
deal. And so part of it is, isexperience, is knowing that
we've experienced that in thepast and then intentionally
saying, what the heck do we doabout that? So it's not having
any of our clients be 100% ofour business or 50% of our
business. It's having multipleof them work in collaboration to
(26:38):
help build a significant base.
So there is, there is somethrough, through time, through
years, you will grow asignificant enough base that
when that happens, because it'snot an if. You're right, the
economy turns, the economychanges, cycles transition,
things happen, and sometimesthat sucks, and you really just
(27:00):
have to be aware that it will becoming, and intentionally and
intensely prepare for it kind ofpreemptively, so that you have
in that moment, the stability tostep back and say, hey, that's
unfortunate. I'm sad that thisis happening, but we've probably
planned for this. So what arethe next steps. What do we do?
And then it's diversifying,right? So we've got
(27:22):
transportation. We LOVERevolution Staffing. Revolution
Staffing is my father's likebusiness baby like that was what
he started when he was young,and he has grown it, and it is a
phenomenal thing. But then wehave essential staffing, and
they do office, and we have helpunlimited, and they do labor,
(27:42):
and we've got consulting for theother division. So it is having
other opportunities and andmaking sure that while, yes, you
are niche, and you dotransportation, whatever that
looks like, for which everylistener is listening, depending
on which role you're in, butthen you don't corner yourself
in there. You don't leaveyourself there forever. And so
(28:03):
that, as that happens, like yousaid, you can't, you can't keep
it from happening, but as ithappens, you have other things
to lean on, so it's not sooverwhelming or all
encompassing. I would suggest.
Dwight Brown (28:16):
A lot of risk management via diversification.
Hannah Dannecker (28:19):
Absolutely.
David Turetsky (28:21):
Hey, are you listening to this and thinking
to yourself, Man, I wish I couldtalk to David about this. Well,
you're in luck. We have aspecial offer for listeners of
the HR Data Labs podcast, a freehalf hour call with me about any
of the topics we cover on thepodcast or whatever is on your
mind. Go tosalary.com/hrdlconsulting to
(28:43):
schedule your free 30 minutecall today.
So let's hit on question numberthree, which is really kind of
one of the keys for what we weregoing to be talking about today.
Why are you so passionate abouthelping bring more females into
this male dominated industry?
Hannah Dannecker (28:58):
Because it's the best! It's so good! It is so
good. So even though the wholeconcept of the economy turning
and the there's there's a littlebit of doomsday around that,
like, yes, it is unfortunatethat that turns and that we are
in not the best spot right now,but as you look at the past 500
(29:19):
years, that'll happen, andeventually it will correct
again, and we will come back outthe other side. And so when you
look at transportation, it isstable. Yes, there are ports
that will shut, yes, there arecompanies, unfortunately, that
will close their doors. And thathappens every once in a while,
because not everybody is goingto be successful, and failure is
(29:42):
inevitable. But if you look atit just in like a grandiose
perspective, a female who comesinto the transportation industry
will not struggle to find a job,if you and I say that with the
caveat of if you suck as anemployee and you don't show up
to work and you call in sickevery single day and you don't
(30:03):
finish your duties and you don'tattend your meetings. I don't
want to speak to that person.
That's your own personal, that'syour own thing. But if a human
who is a good, diligentemployee, who wants to work hard
and wants to support theiremployer comes into the
transportation industry and islooking for work, it's going to
be really, really easy for themto find a job because A they're
(30:23):
everybody's looking for them.
They're looking for somebody whocan come in, who's different,
who's unique to their companyculture, who can help shape and
change and shift. I have lots ofcompanies right now who are
doing massive female pushes,looking for female drivers, and
so it's not going to be hard foryou to find something. And even
(30:46):
if the company that you connectwith doesn't have a job for you,
the industry at large is goodenough. And I don't want to use
the word comfortable enough, butthe network is so solid that
they'll find you somethingsomewhere else. We'll be like,
Hey, I'm so sorry. Let me wrapmy arm around you and bring you
in and help you find a differentplace toland.
David Turetsky (31:05):
By the way, figuratively wrap their arms
around you, not literally wrap.
Okay, just want to check
Hannah Dannecker (31:10):
Yes, figuratively, figuratively
wrapped.
Dwight Brown (31:12):
Good clarification, yes,
David Turetsky (31:14):
I'm sorry.
Hannah Dannecker (31:15):
But take, take you under their wing was the was
the way I was getting to
David Turetsky (31:20):
Figurative language. But do you see the
pushback on the whole DEIinitiatives that you know, it's
been called woke in some ways,which you know, you can tell by
the look on my face thelisteners can't, but I think
that's a bunch of horse crap.
But the ability to make yourworkforce look like the market
(31:44):
around you. There's nothingwrong with that. In fact, that's
what we should be alwaysstriving for. Do you see any
pushback that has changed maybethat a little bit?
Hannah Dannecker (31:59):
I think that for the most part, the
transportation industry,specifically in the last five
years. And I am a Canadian basedcompany. I live in the US, but
our business is originally basedout of Canada, and so this is
more based on Canadianstatistics. I'm still learning a
(32:20):
lot about the US, and we have adriver division there, but that
is not history that I amincredibly knowledgeable about,
so I'll speak just to Canadianbut I would say in the last 10
years, there has been a lot offederations that have been
created that have really helpedthe movement of the female
dominated problem. There's beenthe women trucking Federation of
(32:44):
Canada, and then Trucking HR andone more that I can't remember
just off the top of my head,that have all kind of come
together in the last decade, andthey have brought the community
together in a way that is beenreally valuable, because they're
bringing females into the roomand they're bringing males into
(33:04):
the room, but they're puttingfemales up on stage, and that
doesn't happen very often.
Typically, you'll go to aconference and you'll have a
conference lineup, and it'sgoing to be 80 90% male
speakers, and then they will,they will have the others, and
they will, they will try todiversify, but it is not
necessarily the equal balance.
(33:27):
So, but these organizations arepredominantly female, female
led, female run, and they've hada lot of really good male
attendees, so males who arecoming and listening. And so,
because that happened about 10years ago, and then COVID, which
I can't believe is almost,nearly five years ago now, is
(33:50):
insane to think about, but thatkind of 10 years ago got them
starting to think and startingto function in the way that,
okay, we need to make a change.
And then five years ago, in themiddle of the pandemic, a ton of
stuff happened withtransportation and with truck
drivers, and specifically aroundjust their rights and what they
should be given as a human. Andit got back to a place because
(34:13):
they were taking bathrooms awayfrom drivers. They were saying,
No, you can't go in there. No,you can't go do anything. And it
got to a spot where they wereunderstanding not just what
drivers were experiencing, butwhat females had been
experiencing for all of theyears to come. For so long,
there was male change rooms andmale bathrooms and male male
stuff that the male truckdrivers could use, and the
(34:38):
females were either sayingsorry, go find another place, or
you can use the guy's room, andthat's fine, but again, with
safety, you need to reallyadjust what that genuinely is
putting that female in danger ofor just putting that female in a
place of uncomfortable like,like for a girl to step into a
male's change room and and getready there. That's not super
(35:00):
fun for them, or the femaleshowers at a truck stop, or
whatever that is. So after that,they started thinking about it,
right? And then the five yearstransition, and then they all
got put back to the ground base,and I think that in that spot, a
lot of the men were able to go,whoa. Females have been
experiencing this forever. Andthen as they corrected that, and
they came back out of it.
(35:21):
There's been a massive, at leastin my perception, there's been a
massive pivot in creating moreequality to the resources that
are available, specifically todrivers, which is where we see
the main problems.
Dwight Brown (35:32):
So you're you're not seeing as much pushback as
you might have seen in the pastfrom the males against the
females. Then no, no, there are.
Hannah Dannecker (35:42):
There are northern places and some
southern places, you know,southern US, northern Canada,
that push back. In some ways,for sure, there will always be
people who are pushing back. ButI would say, as a majority, as a
community, it's not beenproblematic.
Dwight Brown (35:59):
You've really seen a shift from what it used to be?
Hannah Dannecker (36:02):
Yeah
Dwight Brown (36:02):
That makes sense.
David Turetsky (36:04):
So to summarize, what you're basically saying is
the transportation industry ismuch more friendly, much more
welcoming, much more open tofemale participants today than
it's ever been in its history.
Hannah Dannecker (36:19):
Yes
David Turetsky (36:19):
And that there's lots of opportunities that that
are now open for female drivers,as well as female back office
workers as well as the logisticsindustry and coming in, you
know, try it, and you might finda home for life.
Hannah Dannecker (36:36):
Absolutely, absolutely, that's exactly what
I'm saying.
David Turetsky (36:39):
Yeah. I mean, I'd love to see some statistics
on that, and especially see howthings have transitioned over
the years. Because, you know, weall know that it was such a male
dominated industry, especiallyin the 80s and 90s. And I do
know you're absolutely rightthat there, there are, there are
many more females in thoseindustries today, and I'm hoping
(37:01):
it improves even more, but I'dlove to see those statistics get
better.
Hannah Dannecker (37:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious from
from you guys, what's yourperception of truck drivers and
the, the industry? I kind of preCOVID I'd be interested to know
and now, and has it changed atall? Have you guys seen that?
Because you're right. It likethe the and they're minute
(37:26):
numbers. I think that in 2000 itwas about 3% of females as
drivers, and I think today it'sabout 7% of drivers. So we've,
we've had a doubling thestatistics there, but not
significantly. Do you feel likeit's a safe, a good role? If you
(37:49):
had a daughter, would you everencourage her to be a truck
driver? Or how would that playout for the two of you?
Dwight Brown (37:56):
You know, my perception has sort of morphed
over time. I actually, I wasborn in the 70s, and there was a
movie from 1978 called convoy,and it was all a bunch of white
males and, and I, I was one ofthose starry eyed kids. It's
like, I want to be a truckdriver. And, and then seeing it
(38:18):
through the years, and, and nowjust going, you know, stopping
at truck stops, during roadtrips and stuff like that, one
of the things that I've observedhas been more diversity, not
just gender diversity, butethnicity diversity with
truckers. I gotta say, Would Iencourage my daughter to become
(38:40):
a truck driver? Gotta say,probably not, just because of
the safety factor. That's thepiece that I would worry about,
is everything that you've talkedabout, about the safety aspect
of things. I would absolutelyencourage her from a career
standpoint, and if she, if she,that's what she wanted to do,
(39:03):
but I would worry like hell asparent with her out there on the
road, to be perfectly honestwith you,
Hannah Dannecker (39:10):
I appreciate the transparency, if you don't
mind me asking, what would you,because this is a big part of
what I do, right? Like I, I wantto help people understand the
value of what truly is there tobe to be done. What would you
have to see change, or whatwould you have to see transition
(39:30):
to be like? Oh, that that looksor that seems like a viable
option!
Dwight Brown (39:36):
I don't think it's as much a matter of what I would
have to see change as much as Iwould have to work on undoing my
perception of the of the safetyfactor when she's out on the
road, you know, stopping at arest stop to catch some sleep
(39:59):
and the dangers that you thatyou hear of on the news. You
know, those kinds of things juststick in the back of my head. So
it's not as much a matter ofbeing able to pinpoint something
that, that I can say, if I sawchange here, I would feel better
about it. It's a, you know, I'm,I'm far enough in years that
(40:23):
I've got all of these years ofseeing these things, you know,
and granted, I know that to someextent it's kind of ridiculous,
because I'm just focusing onwhat you see in the news, which
is obviously going to be theworst case scenario, oftentimes.
But you know, it's, it's likeanything with your kids and
(40:45):
worrying about your kids andwhat they're doing, you know,
seeing, seeing one of my kidsbecome a cop, for example, and
worrying about what goes withthat. So I don't have a good
straight answer for you. Youknow, it's, there's a lot of
history that kind of factorsinto it. But I will say that
(41:06):
with with seeing the greaterdiversity in the industry, just
through the little bit that I'veobserved it, you know, it has
morphed my thinking to a certainextent. But as a father, I'm
always going to be, I'm alwaysgoing to be worried if,
Hannah Dannecker (41:22):
Yeah
Dwight Brown (41:23):
if my kids are in a job that has, you know, risk
of some type that goes with it.
Hannah Dannecker (41:30):
Yeah, that's fair. I think, I think that
humans are concerned for humans,right? Like, the concept is you
wear your heart on your sleeve,your your daughter, your child,
your significant other, nomatter who it is, your parent,
regardless, you're still goingto care and have to fear for
them. I think regardless of whatthey're doing, even if it's
(41:51):
like, I'm a salesperson, youknow, I get to walk into
businesses all the time. That'snot a scary thing. But also,
right? I walk into 50 businessesall the time, and just, it just
takes one! So it is like, it isthe nature, it is funny to go
down the line of, okay, likethere is genuine danger and
(42:11):
risk, and then how do youmitigate that, and what do you
do? But then there's genuinedanger and risk in everyday
life, and so,
Dwight Brown (42:18):
right,
Hannah Dannecker (42:19):
how do you just continue to move forward?
But yeah, it is a funny balanceto play. How about yourself,
David?
David Turetsky (42:26):
As we talked about before, I think there's
lots of different opportunitiesin the trucking and logistics
industry where I would certainlyencourage my kids to think about
those as careers, especiallygiven that the starting rates
for those careers have gonethrough the roof because we
can't find qualifiedindividuals. So it's a good
(42:46):
career, it looks like, well,it's a career that's never going
to go away. And it has potentialfor longer term growth,
depending upon how they want totake their careers. I don't
necessarily know if I agreenecessarily, and I don't need
to, his his thoughts are hisown, with Dwight, because you
(43:08):
could be driving down thehighway and, you know, something
happens anyways. So there's,there's always concerns like
that. My kid lives in New YorkCity, so crossing the street is
a, you know, a lottery.
Hannah Dannecker (43:22):
Sure.
David Turetsky (43:23):
So A lottery?
It's a lottery. You draw, drawthe short straw, you get hit by
a car.
Dwight Brown (43:29):
Rolling the dice here!
David Turetsky (43:31):
Well, I mean, you know, it's New York City,
right?
Dwight Brown (43:33):
It's true, yeah!
David Turetsky (43:35):
But, but so, so I don't necessarily agree,
because, to your point, Hannah,anything can happen. And so I
think it's an industry thatshould be looked at with now new
eyes, given that it hastransformed a little bit and
it's modernized a lot. Theequipment's modern. The
(43:55):
technologies that are employedare more modern. Heck, the
technologies to being in touchand be tracked are more modern.
Hannah Dannecker (44:03):
Oh, all of it! You're, I mean, as a truck
driver, for the most part,you're sitting in a cab where
you've got a camera facing youthat is watching everything you
do all the time now! Like it'sthe technology advancement is
insane, absolutely.
David Turetsky (44:16):
Well, and it's also everybody around you,
because, you know, you havethose pesky cars that are
cutting you off in front orthey're driving too close
behind, and I'm sure thatthere's tons of monitors, you
know, Collision Monitors, forthings like that. So I actually
think I would encourage my kidsto be a part of that. So to
(44:37):
answer your question a littlebit differently than my friend
Dwight,
Hannah Dannecker (44:40):
That's okay! I honestly, I love that you both
have different perspectives. Idon't love that Dwight still
thinks it's scary. You know,that's not, that's not the goal
we're going for. But just tohave to have the to have the
separation, yeah, I mean, it isa legitimate concern, like,
there, there is danger there. Idon't want to say that there
isn't, but where there isdanger, there is opportunity to
(45:00):
be safe as well. And so there's,there's the balance of how you
how you manage all of that.
David Turetsky (45:06):
Exactly.
Hannah, it's been fun. It's beenexciting. We've talked about a
new yet again, Dwight, anothercompletely net new topic that
we've never touched on before!
Dwight Brown (45:25):
Right? I love it.
David Turetsky (45:27):
So Hannah, thank you so much for joining the HR
Data Labs podcast. We appreciateit.
Hannah Dannecker (45:31):
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a
pleasure to join you guys, and Iappreciate you having me come
talk about drivers. I love theopportunity to.
David Turetsky (45:39):
And we appreciate you.
Dwight Brown (45:41):
Been a good, good glimpse on the industry. I
never, never knew existed.
Hannah Dannecker (45:45):
Yeah. Now, when you see the trucks on the
road next to you, you'll, you'lltell them to honk their horn,
and you'll know what's going on.
Dwight Brown (45:50):
I'll be doing like when I was a kid, they still
have the do? They still havethat where you pull on the
chain, and
Hannah Dannecker (45:57):
Some of them, it depends when they were made
for sure, but some of them gotit.
Dwight Brown (46:01):
Okay.
David Turetsky (46:02):
And for those of you who don't know the movie
reference to Convoy, that wasthere was a hit song that went
along with that movie as well,so check it out!
Dwight Brown (46:11):
I feel like we should integrate that into the
editing of podcast. Convoy! 10-4good buddy.
Hannah Dannecker (46:16):
I like it
David Turetsky (46:22):
Thank you again, Hannah, thank you Dwight and
everybody. Thank you forlistening. Take care and stay
safe.
Announcer (46:28):
That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the
episode, please subscribe. Andif you know anyone that might
like to hear it, please send ittheir way. Thank you for joining
us this week, and stay tuned forour next episode. Stay safe.
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