December 30, 2024 • 31 mins
In our annual predictions special of Human Centered, VML's Global CXDO Karen Boswell joins host Nick Brunker to forecast the major customer experience trends for 2025. Building on her accurate predictions from last year, Karen explores how AI will evolve from a transactional tool to an intelligent companion, reshaping how brands connect with customers.
The conversation delves into the future of personalization, emerging privacy concerns, and the impact of AI on both CX professionals and the health/wellness industry. Whether you're a brand leader, CX practitioner, or technology enthusiast, this forward-looking discussion offers valuable insights on navigating the rapidly evolving landscape of customer experience in the year ahead.
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Episode Transcript
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Nick Brunker (00:03):
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm
Nick Brunker, a group directorof experience strategy at VML,
and your host for the show.Thanks for giving us a listen.
As we turn the page on 24 andare about to step into 25, we're
back with our annual predictionspecial of human centered.
Today, we're peering into thefuture of CX, offering our
thoughts on what might unfold inthe months ahead.
(00:24):
We'll explore the emergingtrends, potential challenges,
and exciting opportunities thatcould reshape how we connect
with customers in 2,025.Consider this your strategic
preview of the year ahead. And,of course, it's become kind of a
tradition for us to do theseepisodes with my very good
friend, BML's Global CX DO,Karen Boswell. Karen, thanks as
(00:44):
always for doing this.
Karen Boswell (00:45):
Nice to be back again, Nick. Thanks for having
me.
Nick Brunker (00:47):
Of course. Let's get into it. 1st, kudos. You did
an amazing job predicting 2024.I went back in preparation for
this episode.
I was like, I wonder how wellshe did. And not that it's like
a judgment on my part, but I'mthinking we I think got into 4
or 5 different topics last year,and lo and behold, damn it, you
got almost all of them exactlyright. And and not that they
(01:09):
were easy predictions, but Ithink there were some really
interesting nuggets in there. Wetalked gen AI and how it's gonna
start delivering for business.We talked about, the reshaping
and the reinvention of theworkplace, tech regulation, and
and a lot of the things that wetalked about last year, going
into 'twenty 4, turned out to betrue.
But I think one of the thingsthat I would imagine will
probably carry over into 2025was that topic of Gen AI. And,
(01:33):
well, last year, we talked abouthow it's starting to deliver for
business this year, and we sayit every year, things are
evolving faster than ever. Yougot the sense that that Gen AI
is gonna continue to be one ofthe top things that we focus on
in the coming year ahead.
Karen Boswell (01:47):
Absolutely. And I think, I was on a a panel at
Lisbon Web Summit recently,actually, with some some good
friends, and the the theme ofthe conversation was that whilst
we still, at this moment intime, believe that AI won't
overtake humans, it's reallyclear that humans with AI will
(02:08):
overtake humans without AI. Andwe're seeing it, in the
integration in things like,broad strokes CX. You know, how
do we actually enhance customersatisfaction through cloud based
omnichannel technologies thatstart to bridge the gaps. So
things like broad voice CSaaS,you know, those kind of cost
(02:30):
cutting technology upgrades, AIdriven personalization, and
we'll probably come on to that.
There's a sort of tensionbubbling up there between, you
know, how, hyper personalizationcan actually start to chip away
at a brand's strength andstature. So these are some of
the things that are now becominga little bit more obvious. But,
(02:53):
yes, we've got generative AI,conversational AI. Like, this
this sort of application of ithas advanced hugely in in 2024.
And certainly, we're seeing moreindustry specific
implementations as well,especially in retail.
So we've got a lot of AI useenhancing how people shop, how
(03:15):
people scan, how they you know,sort of cashless is becoming
much more common. It's much moreefficient now. It's more
widespread, and and people aregetting used to it. And
similarly in in FS. So notsurprising that the sectors that
have been adopting adopting AIfor longer, have been scaling
(03:35):
faster this year, and they're atthe pointy end of the new set
of, challenges that are comingout.
And to your point, a lot ofthose still remain around ethics
and the governance and the needfor transparency in AI driven
decisions, interactions,exchanges, and how do we
actually enable businesses toincreasingly focus on the
(03:59):
responsible adoption. And notjust from an efficiency point of
view, give me more bang for mybuck, but from an effectiveness
point of view, make that moneywork harder but in the right way
for people.
Nick Brunker (04:13):
Yeah. We talk about the 3 Es of efficiency,
effectiveness, and emotion, andit does feel like that
marketers, CX pros are gonnahave to make sure that they're
keeping a watchful eye on thebalance between customer
experience and brand experiencebecause you kinda skew too far
one way. You may be sacrificing,you know, goodness on the other
(04:33):
end. And one of the other thingsI think we talked about, last
year that I think will continueto be true in 25 is is that gap
beginning to close at a morerapid pace between technology
for technology's sake and realsolutions? And I know that we've
seen a lot of really goodexamples.
We could get into any or many ofthem, as we go through the pod
(04:53):
podcast today, but that gapbetween technology and what is
it considered a real beneficialsolution for a human, using the
technology or using somebody'sbrand leveraging AI, is, I
think, gonna be something we seemore of because as we look at
last year where Gen AI was stillgetting its sea legs, so to
speak, where people werebecoming more familiar and
(05:16):
theoretically in the mainstream,this year, it's not just going
Karen Boswell (05:20):
to be enough to have the ability to to leverage
AI in certain ways. It's gonnabe finding what are those value
propositions that AI couldbring. Right? Agree. And I
think, the brands that havestarted to pull forward are
those that are trying to closethat gap.
And it's it's a big gap quiteoften. And it's, you know, the
(05:44):
bigger the company, the more, adhoc pieces of technology and
adoption of, you know,innovative ideas there are. And,
you know, you and I both knowbecause we work with complex
organizations and often matrixwithin matrix, structures. Like,
there will be 100 of thousandsof tools and startups and
(06:06):
ventures and, and pieces offragmented, technology all with
the right intent. But unlessthey are connected at the scale
of the business and refined andorganized around the customer
base or the client basedepending on what kind of sector
you're operating in, closingthat gap becomes a heavy
(06:26):
investment.
And, that's where businessessometimes, slip back into those
habits of not necessarilyinvesting consistently in people
first. But we're seeing, like,some trends, I think, that are
starting to solidify a littlebit more. And as we head into
2025, I think you've got I'vetouched on hyper
(06:47):
personalization, so I'll I'llstart there. But you do have the
Netflix and the Amazons of theworld that continue to lead the
way in how to use AI to refinecontent, to better understand
individual tastes. And they havedone it in a way that hasn't
deteriorated their brandsbecause they've made that
customer choice and thatcustomer, personalization part
(07:09):
of boosting their engagement andpart of, their retention
strategy.
You do have others then that aredoing it for the sake of doing
it, and that isn't working quiteso well because they're losing
track of their brand in theirassets. And so the assets become
too much of the people, andsuddenly customers are looking
(07:31):
at this content not really surewho it's coming from. Like it's
you know, they've sort of gotconfusion. I think the second
thing that we're starting to seea gap close, between, people
wanting things from brands andtechnology is the say I talked a
lot about sustainability andpurpose driven brands. Now it's
hard not to reference Patagonia,but I think, a company I've had
(07:55):
my eye on this year actually isFairphone.
I don't know if you've comeacross them, but, an Amsterdam
based electronics company.Essentially, they've kind of
disrupted the supply chain onhow their devices are are built,
so that you can replace acomponent part of your phone or
your headphones. You don't haveto buy a whole new phone. So
you're upcycling a piece ratherthan the whole thing. And
(08:17):
actually that's starting tohappen in fashion as well.
So tools and AI in the fashionspace helping, drive the resale
renaissance. So, fast fashion,big bloody problem, still, you
know, huge and ugly. And resaleof of fashion has been, stuck in
(08:38):
a space where it's had the dualchallenge of, both efficient
sourcing and buying and sellingof secondhand products. So it's
really amazing to see actuallythat technology, many of them
that do use AI, are making thata lot more accessible, and a lot
easier. And and this sort of,like, omnichannel CX as well, I
(09:02):
think that's that's definitely aspace that we've advanced in
every sector.
I don't think there's a sectorthat hasn't moved forward and
cloud based, AI driven solutionsare definitely at the heart of a
lot of that.
Nick Brunker (09:16):
What I think is really interesting about some of
the the Gen AI stuff you talkedabout off the top, specifically
the the way that it shows up forcustomers, I can't help but
think about, in my mind, the theflip side of that. So as people
like us who are working and CXpros that are listening to this
podcast are saying, alright.Well, how do I leverage the tool
(09:38):
to help me potentially do my jobbetter? So as much as we want
brands to be able to deliverthese tools that are customer
facing or maybe even, you know,some of the operational elements
to, you know, increase supplychain effectiveness or whatever.
There's a part of me as a CX prothat's like, man, as these
technologies advance, again,talking about your your comment
around AI not replacing humans,humans with AI replacing humans
(10:01):
without.
What are the impacts do you seecoming in 25 as it relates to
our business and as strategistsand as CX practitioners where we
can leverage some of thesethings to potentially speed up
the process of getting a briefor come up with some shower
thoughts where you're thinkingabout, like, okay. I've got all
these thoughts. How can I, youknow, streamline them and be
(10:21):
more efficient? My day zerobrief. Like, talk to me about,
as a CX pro, how we might lookahead to the next 12 months and
say, damn, we could be way moreefficient at our jobs if we use
some of this stuff.
Karen Boswell (10:32):
I think the short answer is just stop. I think if
if people are on the edgeworrying about it and hoping
it's gonna go away, it's afool's quest. It's not going
anywhere. I I was resistant forquite a while because I was
adamant that I was going togenerate all my own IP and come
(10:56):
up with all of my ideas andwrite every single thing on my
own because I always have.
Nick Brunker (11:01):
Mhmm.
Karen Boswell (11:02):
But actually, what I found was, and a lot of
this is down to knowing how tospeak to AI, which we'll come on
to in a moment. But eliminatingthe obvious so that you can
focus on the new is generally mypersonal rule of thumb. So I use
(11:24):
our AI tools that we have withinWPP, and we're very fortunate to
have quite a lot of extensiveones to help me do things like
run a brand playbook, pass thebrief that I've received from a
client and tell me whether theirbrief is accurately depicting
(11:45):
the core values that that brandstands for. Okay? And it will do
that in seconds rather than mecombing through a brief and
trying to decipher subjectivityand, all of that kind of stuff.
I will use AI to do, desktopmarket research. And, again, you
need to sort of practice, butwe're talking days, not weeks
(12:07):
of, you know, how to ask a goodquestion of AI. And once you get
going so we have we have thingslike you'll be familiar with
this, but for those listening,we call them agents and they're
sort of light touch plug andplay, open AI sort of frameworks
(12:28):
as it were. So you can connect achat GPT, for example, into a
Miro space, and you can teachit, to understand the audience
that you're writing for. So youmight upload a persona and you
might upload said brief that youjust checked was, on point.
And you might ask it to generatesome copy for some new social
(12:56):
apps. And what you'll get backis a lot of the stuff that, is
obvious is, scraped from what italready knows. And so you can
use that to kinda go great. Soif that's obvious, how can I be
better? How can I use morestrategic intent?
How can I brief my creativeteams, my creative partners to
(13:21):
back flip over that bar that itjust set? But then you start to
spar with AI and you start tohave a conversation with it, and
you can ask it to be better. Youcan ask it to, you know, what
would my audience think of this?And you can create a synthetic
persona. So you can engage withyour audience.
Now never to replace talking toyour actual consumers, but it
(13:43):
does mean all of that real worldresearch that can take an
incredible amount of time orengaging focus groups that just
is high cost, that can be donein a much shorter space of time.
So that when you're getting tothat first presentation, you've
done 10 x the due diligence onthat kind of research component.
(14:05):
Now I will just say one moretime, never replace humans with
this process. Use it to enhancesome of the more mundane stuff
so that you can get to the coolstuff quicker.
Nick Brunker (14:16):
And what I found is in working with some of our
creatives that I think you hadmentioned about, like, back
flipping over the bar that itsets. I, as a strategist myself,
individually, think about, okay.Where do I even start? So I can
obviously spend time using andthinking and doing my own
research and, you know, gettingstarted on a couple of, like,
thought starters. The the firstfew things that come out of the
(14:39):
system, so to speak, may not bethe answer to your point on it's
not replacing me, but, damn it,it gives me some really good
ideas, with my my human brain,such as it is, and can actually
create, you know, prompts or orthought starters that I can then
build upon.
And I think that's that'sfascinating. The other thing you
said that sparked anotherprediction was was about this
(15:00):
idea of autonomous and smartsolutions going and pushing
beyond the obvious. And one ofthe things that you had kinda
started to tiptoe into was thisidea of and I think you said we
call it agents in house. Wethink about AI right now as a as
a tool, can help us give usanswers quickly or what have
you, but it's it's still, in alot of cases, a very
(15:23):
transactional approach where yougo to a tool wherever that tool
is, you prompt them with aquestion or, some sort of
activity or task to complete,and then they spit it out. What
I think that we might see thisyear, and I know you had talked
about this in a prediction, isabout this idea that it becomes
less of a transactional tool andmore of a companion.
Talk a little bit about that.
Karen Boswell (15:43):
So it's interesting, isn't it? Because
autonomous products generally,when we hear the word
autonomous, we associate it withself driving vehicles. Right?
Because that's sort of, like,the first big splash thing. And
and then you might get mumblingsof smart fridges and all of this
kind of stuff.
But I think what's interestingis that in the in the age of
autonomy, which I think we'recoming into, and the autonomous
(16:06):
Internet of things or theInternet of autonomous things, I
can't remember now, is it? IOAT?I think it's that way around.
Gotta love another acronym.Actually it's it's sort of this
idea of a a pocket companion forlife, I guess.
So building on the examples Iwas just giving in the
workplace, actually I use chatGPT probably more than I use
(16:32):
Google now because, if I'msearching for something or
wanting to understand something,I'll have a conversation with
it. If I'm preparing for aconversation I wanna have in my
head, I can spar with chap GPT.I can, you know, write agendas
and I can kind of like ask it,you know, how might you make
this better? How might you makeit lighter? And I can do you
(16:54):
think this is a good idea?
What's that based on? Can youfind some research papers? You
know, all of that kind of stuff.Can you help me jam with a few
different ideas for a workshopI'm running? And and it it's
just a different level ofcompanion versus Google, which
is comparatively quite binarythese days.
And I know they're obviouslyadvancing their own things, and
(17:16):
all of that kind of stuff, but Iguess I'm sort of referencing
the ones I have. But then Ithink the that behavior is more
mainstream now. I mean, it wasonly a year or so ago I remember
my dad kind of getting reallyconfused with why I kept talking
to Alexa. And now he's like, ewew. Came over to visit recently,
(17:38):
and he was just getting music toplay.
And we had Roy Orbison on in notime and, you know, all of this
stuff. And it's just like, okay.Well, he's 70 odd and pretty,
like, tech phobe. But but butthat behavior of engaging
without really thinking about ittoo much and allowing technology
to progress without yourinteraction in the background,
(17:59):
the trust that that is bringing,that level of autonomy is what I
think is quite interesting. Andthat's what I think is going to
be interesting between human andAI interaction.
Like, I sort of trust that my AIpartner is gonna help me move
forward. I might not take thefinite, but that behavior, I
(18:21):
think, has advanced a lot in thelast year or so.
Nick Brunker (18:24):
Yeah. I I could see it really taking off in 25
where where that becomes more ofthe, you know, default habit
where in, you know, the last,you know, 20 or 30 years, it's
always gotten better, but it'sstill been a, hey. I'll go to
Google and Google that. And nowI think what you're starting to
see is even the Googles. I saw acommercial here in the States
(18:45):
the other day where that premiseis kind of being sold.
And I know there's been thingslike Gemini and Siri out there,
Alexa, you mentioned, wherethere's still a a speak to get
sort of interaction.
But
I don't think it's been as as advanced as I believe
they're trying to project in 25,where in this commercial, I'll
just speak about it from fromthe Google perspective, where
(19:08):
they were kind of, forecastingthis this customer in the
commercial just talking to theirphone.
Hi. I'm Gemini.
Hi, Gemini?
How can I help you? So I just talk?
Karen Boswell (19:21):
Yes. But Google We can have
Nick Brunker (19:23):
a conversation about anything you like.
Anything?
The wrath of all
the Achilles. That's right. Yes. I knew it.
Next question.
I don't wanna go to jail.
Why don't you just go for 10 minutes and see how
you feel?
It's so far.
Give me another one, but more intense. Like I've
never fixed a car before.
Make it sound professional.
In regards to working this weekend, we believe
it's important to prioritize ourwell-being.
(19:45):
And I think that that sort of muscle memory is
going to advance quickly in 25,and certainly beyond. But it's,
like, kind of, you know youknow, beginning, the podcast you
talked about, how it continuesto move faster than ever. I
imagine that shift in 25 isgonna be pretty quick. But the
outcome of that is ethics andprivacy. And, you know, we
talked about it last year as oneof your predictions where tech
(20:06):
regulation is gonna continue tobecome a big deal.
I don't know if it really got,as mainstream in terms of
coverage, especially in anelection year of all years in
United States, at least. I wouldsuspect that if if we continue
to advance in the speed, inwhich we're talking, there's
gonna be some seriousregulations to follow because
(20:29):
what you just talked about,Karen, is kind of, part and
parcel to alright. Well, howdoes that shift our privacy
rules or ethics? Like, as abrand, do I retain that
information? How do I use thatinformation?
So I think there there's kind ofan interesting ethics angle
there too, isn't it?
Karen Boswell (20:45):
I agree. And I think there's still a lot of
work to be done to helpbusinesses come to terms with
how fast AI is advancing and howfast it's being adopting. And we
saw, at the end of 2023, I thinkit was, the provisional
(21:06):
agreement between the EuropeanParliament and European Council
on the Artificial IntelligenceAct. I'm not 100% up to speed
with what they're called in theUS. Apologies.
But the idea is that there aremultiple compliance processes
that are being deployed and theyare moving forward. But, there
(21:31):
are so many different cases inprogress that shift and change
faster than the law currentlycan shift and change. Yeah.
Where to place emphasis onaccountability and where human
begins and AINs is is like thissort of like symbiotic, circle
(21:55):
that just keeps blurring thelines, I guess, between, like,
what's collaboration, what'sdictatorship, what's coercive,
What's mimetic? Like, there's somuch in it.
It's quite an amorphous thing,but it is advancing. And I think
(22:16):
what's interesting is I've beenat a couple of events recently
where I have been approached by,lawyers in this space actually,
and that's new. That was new forme in 2024 where, lawyers will
come over and introducethemselves as a professional in
AI ethics. And I was like, Okay.So I think it's definitely
(22:40):
moving forward.
I think the key thing is to geta board in place. And most of
the clients that I'm workingwith, and there isn't a single
one where we're not having aconversation around AI with
them. We are pretty advanced inhaving representation from
across the business in a smallsteering committee in a room,
(23:05):
sometimes as often as once afortnight so that we can start
to address what is right for thebusiness when it comes to
understanding and governing howthey're going to position AI for
their employees, how they'regonna position AI toward, for,
(23:25):
and around their customers, howthey're going to, be transparent
about that in their reports upto stakeholders and out to
stakeholders and then downacross the organization. And the
key thing and back to thattrust. You know, I'm talking
about trust between a companionAI and a single human.
(23:51):
That needs to be there at scale.And it's no surprise to see, you
know, sort of the tech giantslike Microsoft and Apple, both
very focused and, and I thinkleaders and very much sort of
looking at what's responsible AIdevelopment, from a Microsoft
(24:11):
point of view. And Apple aregoing big on sort of strong
privacy protection. So theyfound their kind of way to sort
of lead, and I think that's agood starting place. So if a
company can find its place tolead the conversation and lead
now, I think there's still 2025and maybe even into 2026 space
(24:34):
to, make small failures, but thetime is running out for that.
The expectation will be greaterthe closer we get to that
governance. So, again, with allof this stuff, if you ignore it,
you're gonna fail. Like, it'sabout getting on board now while
we have that grace period tostill be figuring things out.
Nick Brunker (24:56):
One other thing I wanted to get into from a
prediction standpoint is how thehealth and wellness industry
might adapt as we talk about allthese technologies increasing.
Do you see 25 as a year wherethat particular vertical is even
more impacted in the year ahead?
Karen Boswell (25:13):
Yes. It's the short answer. I think last year
I sort of talked aboutsubscription based, sort of
health personalization and, youknow, referencing the Zoe's of
the world. I think we've gonefurther than that through 2024.
And, again, it does come back toembedding that sort of AI driven
(25:33):
personalization factor.
But the fact that you can nowhave DNA based pretty much
everything if you want it from,nutritional advice to workouts,
to supplements, to mentalwell-being, to personalised
storytelling, to sleep patternsand all the analysis of all of
(25:58):
those things correlated through,an app and a watch. I think,
personalized everything is isdefinitely, on the up. And I
think some of the stuff I mean Isubscribe to all of this by the
way. You know, this sort of mynew my new saying at the moment
is shut the door in 24. Likeit's been a year.
(26:20):
Like it's had very turbulent,ups and downs. And
Nick Brunker (26:25):
Mhmm.
Karen Boswell (26:25):
And it's it's, for everyone, I think. But I've
really sort of refocused in. Andso I've gone quite deep on some
of this stuff. But the idea issort of gut microbiome
profiling. I was like, well, Imean, it sounds like it would be
good to me, but what does thatmean?
But, like, it's insane. Yourgut's your gut's your second
brain. Right? There's so muchstuff that we don't understand
(26:48):
about how to look afterourselves in a world that just
gets faster and harder to livein. I do think that, health and
people's understanding of healthand their own health will just
continue to be more pertinentand more prominent into 2025 and
beyond.
(27:08):
So, yeah, I'm I'm quite excitedabout this, actually. It's
always my favorite track atSouth Bay as well, so I love
hanging around the health trackwhen I'm over there.
Nick Brunker (27:15):
Well and what I find fascinating about it, and
not to riff too deeply into it,is that that goes hand in hand
with how much does somebody,down to the individual, trust
the information it's gettingback from these things. Because,
I mean, you there these DNAbased nutrition plans are
nothing new as a thing, but it'sthe speed upon which you can get
(27:36):
something that's very valuableand usable back as a you know,
not to completely thread theneedle from how we make a CX
plan to how you, you know,create a nutrition plan. But
it's it's not that it can't bedone already. It's that it can
be done faster, potentially moreaccurate, tell you things that
you may not be able to getaccess to at the speed in which
(27:56):
AI is creating, the ability foryou to get them. And so what I
find interesting is in the inthe space of of health and
wellness, and, again, not beingan expert in in either, being
able to go down the path of,okay.
I can use the tools and it cangive me information and I can
act upon that information if Iwant to. But do I really trust
(28:17):
that it's not to use the termhallucinating or that it's
giving me inaccurateinformation? And so is there
going to be in 25 a all in? Yep.I'm totally gonna rely on
whatever Jet AI tool that Isubscribe to to decide what am I
gonna eat every day or whatshouldn't I eat.
(28:37):
I don't know. There's still thatthat, I don't know, hesitation
on my side, yet I feel likewe're not that far off. And I'm
not sure if you feel the same oror if you think that it's gonna
get so good in the 12 monthsahead that this is gonna become
the norm. I don't know. I'm I'mkind of on the fence.
Karen Boswell (28:53):
I think my my principle remains the same as I
was talking about earlieractually, when I was talking
about it in the workplace. Like,it's I consider it to be a tool
that fast tracks my knowledge. Ithink the dangers and I've seen
this and I can see it a mile offand I can't prove it when people
(29:13):
rely on AI to do their thinkingfor them. And unfortunately,
humans are inherently lazy.Like, we're lazy people.
Like, if there's a shortcut,we'll generally take it. These
are facts. These are facts.Facts by science. And it's you
(29:34):
know, if silently quitting wasthe 2024 thing, I think whatever
we call this kind of, like, AIlaziness is probably the 2025
thing that we wanna watch outfor.
But I think if you can have useit as a tool. I think nobody
will ever understand what isgoing on in your body better
than you will. And so ifsomething doesn't feel right,
(29:56):
don't do it. Like, doctorsaren't gonna disappear
overnight, but you will havemore information than you had
before, more relevant to yourmoment in time. And therefore,
that empowerment that you canget through knowledge can inform
your decisions to enhance yourhealth, to have better, more
(30:17):
sustainable eating practices, bywhich I mean enjoy today without
detriment to tomorrow.
You know? Like, I know I can eata slice of sourdough 1 or 2
times a week. If I smash apizza, I feel rubbish the day
after. Do I wanna smash a pizza?Of course I do.
Yes. You know, like,
Nick Brunker (30:34):
it's just it's just sort of understanding to
help make those decisions.
Karen Boswell (30:34):
But I think, understanding to help make those
decisions, but I think, make thedecisions on your own or, like,
with the new knowledge. Peoplethat use AI to make their
decisions and do their work forthem will be short lived. It
won't be long before it reallycan spot them.
Nick Brunker (30:52):
If last year was any indicator of of how you're
gonna do in 25 in terms of yourpredictions, you got a pretty
good track record. So, certainlyappreciate you doing this, and,
obviously, it's become kind of atradition at the end of every
year. We we take a look, at theyear ahead, and, it's certainly
exciting to catch up with youanytime. But, let's keep doing
this more in 25, and, we'llwe'll go back in December of 25
(31:15):
and take a look at how you did.
Karen Boswell (31:18):
For sure. I look forward to it.
Nick Brunker (31:20):
Thank you so much. And thanks to you all for
listening to Human Centered aswell. To learn more about VML's
CX practice and our approach tothe work, you could check us out
online at vml.com. We'd alsolove to hear your feedback on
the show. Give us a rating andoffer up your thoughts wherever
you listen to your podcasts,including Apple, Spotify,
Stitcher, Amazon, and more.
Have a topic idea or just wannadrop us a line? You can connect
(31:41):
with me on x@nickbrunker, orjust shoot us an email. The
address ishumancentered@vml.com. Thanks
again for listening. We'll seeyou next time.
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm
Nick Brunker, a group directorof experience strategy at VML,
and your host for the show.Thanks for giving us a listen.
As we turn the page on 24 andare about to step into 25, we're
back with our annual predictionspecial of human centered.
Today, we're peering into thefuture of CX, offering our
thoughts on what might unfold inthe months ahead.
(00:24):
We'll explore the emergingtrends, potential challenges,
and exciting opportunities thatcould reshape how we connect
with customers in 2,025.Consider this your strategic
preview of the year ahead. And,of course, it's become kind of a
tradition for us to do theseepisodes with my very good
friend, BML's Global CX DO,Karen Boswell. Karen, thanks as
(00:44):
always for doing this.
Karen Boswell (00:45):
Nice to be back again, Nick. Thanks for having
me.
Nick Brunker (00:47):
Of course. Let's get into it. 1st, kudos. You did
an amazing job predicting 2024.I went back in preparation for
this episode.
I was like, I wonder how wellshe did. And not that it's like
a judgment on my part, but I'mthinking we I think got into 4
or 5 different topics last year,and lo and behold, damn it, you
got almost all of them exactlyright. And and not that they
(01:09):
were easy predictions, but Ithink there were some really
interesting nuggets in there. Wetalked gen AI and how it's gonna
start delivering for business.We talked about, the reshaping
and the reinvention of theworkplace, tech regulation, and
and a lot of the things that wetalked about last year, going
into 'twenty 4, turned out to betrue.
But I think one of the thingsthat I would imagine will
probably carry over into 2025was that topic of Gen AI. And,
(01:33):
well, last year, we talked abouthow it's starting to deliver for
business this year, and we sayit every year, things are
evolving faster than ever. Yougot the sense that that Gen AI
is gonna continue to be one ofthe top things that we focus on
in the coming year ahead.
Karen Boswell (01:47):
Absolutely. And I think, I was on a a panel at
Lisbon Web Summit recently,actually, with some some good
friends, and the the theme ofthe conversation was that whilst
we still, at this moment intime, believe that AI won't
overtake humans, it's reallyclear that humans with AI will
(02:08):
overtake humans without AI. Andwe're seeing it, in the
integration in things like,broad strokes CX. You know, how
do we actually enhance customersatisfaction through cloud based
omnichannel technologies thatstart to bridge the gaps. So
things like broad voice CSaaS,you know, those kind of cost
(02:30):
cutting technology upgrades, AIdriven personalization, and
we'll probably come on to that.
There's a sort of tensionbubbling up there between, you
know, how, hyper personalizationcan actually start to chip away
at a brand's strength andstature. So these are some of
the things that are now becominga little bit more obvious. But,
(02:53):
yes, we've got generative AI,conversational AI. Like, this
this sort of application of ithas advanced hugely in in 2024.
And certainly, we're seeing moreindustry specific
implementations as well,especially in retail.
So we've got a lot of AI useenhancing how people shop, how
(03:15):
people scan, how they you know,sort of cashless is becoming
much more common. It's much moreefficient now. It's more
widespread, and and people aregetting used to it. And
similarly in in FS. So notsurprising that the sectors that
have been adopting adopting AIfor longer, have been scaling
(03:35):
faster this year, and they're atthe pointy end of the new set
of, challenges that are comingout.
And to your point, a lot ofthose still remain around ethics
and the governance and the needfor transparency in AI driven
decisions, interactions,exchanges, and how do we
actually enable businesses toincreasingly focus on the
(03:59):
responsible adoption. And notjust from an efficiency point of
view, give me more bang for mybuck, but from an effectiveness
point of view, make that moneywork harder but in the right way
for people.
Nick Brunker (04:13):
Yeah. We talk about the 3 Es of efficiency,
effectiveness, and emotion, andit does feel like that
marketers, CX pros are gonnahave to make sure that they're
keeping a watchful eye on thebalance between customer
experience and brand experiencebecause you kinda skew too far
one way. You may be sacrificing,you know, goodness on the other
(04:33):
end. And one of the other thingsI think we talked about, last
year that I think will continueto be true in 25 is is that gap
beginning to close at a morerapid pace between technology
for technology's sake and realsolutions? And I know that we've
seen a lot of really goodexamples.
We could get into any or many ofthem, as we go through the pod
(04:53):
podcast today, but that gapbetween technology and what is
it considered a real beneficialsolution for a human, using the
technology or using somebody'sbrand leveraging AI, is, I
think, gonna be something we seemore of because as we look at
last year where Gen AI was stillgetting its sea legs, so to
speak, where people werebecoming more familiar and
(05:16):
theoretically in the mainstream,this year, it's not just going
Karen Boswell (05:20):
to be enough to have the ability to to leverage
AI in certain ways. It's gonnabe finding what are those value
propositions that AI couldbring. Right? Agree. And I
think, the brands that havestarted to pull forward are
those that are trying to closethat gap.
And it's it's a big gap quiteoften. And it's, you know, the
(05:44):
bigger the company, the more, adhoc pieces of technology and
adoption of, you know,innovative ideas there are. And,
you know, you and I both knowbecause we work with complex
organizations and often matrixwithin matrix, structures. Like,
there will be 100 of thousandsof tools and startups and
(06:06):
ventures and, and pieces offragmented, technology all with
the right intent. But unlessthey are connected at the scale
of the business and refined andorganized around the customer
base or the client basedepending on what kind of sector
you're operating in, closingthat gap becomes a heavy
(06:26):
investment.
And, that's where businessessometimes, slip back into those
habits of not necessarilyinvesting consistently in people
first. But we're seeing, like,some trends, I think, that are
starting to solidify a littlebit more. And as we head into
2025, I think you've got I'vetouched on hyper
(06:47):
personalization, so I'll I'llstart there. But you do have the
Netflix and the Amazons of theworld that continue to lead the
way in how to use AI to refinecontent, to better understand
individual tastes. And they havedone it in a way that hasn't
deteriorated their brandsbecause they've made that
customer choice and thatcustomer, personalization part
(07:09):
of boosting their engagement andpart of, their retention
strategy.
You do have others then that aredoing it for the sake of doing
it, and that isn't working quiteso well because they're losing
track of their brand in theirassets. And so the assets become
too much of the people, andsuddenly customers are looking
(07:31):
at this content not really surewho it's coming from. Like it's
you know, they've sort of gotconfusion. I think the second
thing that we're starting to seea gap close, between, people
wanting things from brands andtechnology is the say I talked a
lot about sustainability andpurpose driven brands. Now it's
hard not to reference Patagonia,but I think, a company I've had
(07:55):
my eye on this year actually isFairphone.
I don't know if you've comeacross them, but, an Amsterdam
based electronics company.Essentially, they've kind of
disrupted the supply chain onhow their devices are are built,
so that you can replace acomponent part of your phone or
your headphones. You don't haveto buy a whole new phone. So
you're upcycling a piece ratherthan the whole thing. And
(08:17):
actually that's starting tohappen in fashion as well.
So tools and AI in the fashionspace helping, drive the resale
renaissance. So, fast fashion,big bloody problem, still, you
know, huge and ugly. And resaleof of fashion has been, stuck in
(08:38):
a space where it's had the dualchallenge of, both efficient
sourcing and buying and sellingof secondhand products. So it's
really amazing to see actuallythat technology, many of them
that do use AI, are making thata lot more accessible, and a lot
easier. And and this sort of,like, omnichannel CX as well, I
(09:02):
think that's that's definitely aspace that we've advanced in
every sector.
I don't think there's a sectorthat hasn't moved forward and
cloud based, AI driven solutionsare definitely at the heart of a
lot of that.
Nick Brunker (09:16):
What I think is really interesting about some of
the the Gen AI stuff you talkedabout off the top, specifically
the the way that it shows up forcustomers, I can't help but
think about, in my mind, the theflip side of that. So as people
like us who are working and CXpros that are listening to this
podcast are saying, alright.Well, how do I leverage the tool
(09:38):
to help me potentially do my jobbetter? So as much as we want
brands to be able to deliverthese tools that are customer
facing or maybe even, you know,some of the operational elements
to, you know, increase supplychain effectiveness or whatever.
There's a part of me as a CX prothat's like, man, as these
technologies advance, again,talking about your your comment
around AI not replacing humans,humans with AI replacing humans
(10:01):
without.
What are the impacts do you seecoming in 25 as it relates to
our business and as strategistsand as CX practitioners where we
can leverage some of thesethings to potentially speed up
the process of getting a briefor come up with some shower
thoughts where you're thinkingabout, like, okay. I've got all
these thoughts. How can I, youknow, streamline them and be
(10:21):
more efficient? My day zerobrief. Like, talk to me about,
as a CX pro, how we might lookahead to the next 12 months and
say, damn, we could be way moreefficient at our jobs if we use
some of this stuff.
Karen Boswell (10:32):
I think the short answer is just stop. I think if
if people are on the edgeworrying about it and hoping
it's gonna go away, it's afool's quest. It's not going
anywhere. I I was resistant forquite a while because I was
adamant that I was going togenerate all my own IP and come
(10:56):
up with all of my ideas andwrite every single thing on my
own because I always have.
Nick Brunker (11:01):
Mhmm.
Karen Boswell (11:02):
But actually, what I found was, and a lot of
this is down to knowing how tospeak to AI, which we'll come on
to in a moment. But eliminatingthe obvious so that you can
focus on the new is generally mypersonal rule of thumb. So I use
(11:24):
our AI tools that we have withinWPP, and we're very fortunate to
have quite a lot of extensiveones to help me do things like
run a brand playbook, pass thebrief that I've received from a
client and tell me whether theirbrief is accurately depicting
(11:45):
the core values that that brandstands for. Okay? And it will do
that in seconds rather than mecombing through a brief and
trying to decipher subjectivityand, all of that kind of stuff.
I will use AI to do, desktopmarket research. And, again, you
need to sort of practice, butwe're talking days, not weeks
(12:07):
of, you know, how to ask a goodquestion of AI. And once you get
going so we have we have thingslike you'll be familiar with
this, but for those listening,we call them agents and they're
sort of light touch plug andplay, open AI sort of frameworks
(12:28):
as it were. So you can connect achat GPT, for example, into a
Miro space, and you can teachit, to understand the audience
that you're writing for. So youmight upload a persona and you
might upload said brief that youjust checked was, on point.
And you might ask it to generatesome copy for some new social
(12:56):
apps. And what you'll get backis a lot of the stuff that, is
obvious is, scraped from what italready knows. And so you can
use that to kinda go great. Soif that's obvious, how can I be
better? How can I use morestrategic intent?
How can I brief my creativeteams, my creative partners to
(13:21):
back flip over that bar that itjust set? But then you start to
spar with AI and you start tohave a conversation with it, and
you can ask it to be better. Youcan ask it to, you know, what
would my audience think of this?And you can create a synthetic
persona. So you can engage withyour audience.
Now never to replace talking toyour actual consumers, but it
(13:43):
does mean all of that real worldresearch that can take an
incredible amount of time orengaging focus groups that just
is high cost, that can be donein a much shorter space of time.
So that when you're getting tothat first presentation, you've
done 10 x the due diligence onthat kind of research component.
(14:05):
Now I will just say one moretime, never replace humans with
this process. Use it to enhancesome of the more mundane stuff
so that you can get to the coolstuff quicker.
Nick Brunker (14:16):
And what I found is in working with some of our
creatives that I think you hadmentioned about, like, back
flipping over the bar that itsets. I, as a strategist myself,
individually, think about, okay.Where do I even start? So I can
obviously spend time using andthinking and doing my own
research and, you know, gettingstarted on a couple of, like,
thought starters. The the firstfew things that come out of the
(14:39):
system, so to speak, may not bethe answer to your point on it's
not replacing me, but, damn it,it gives me some really good
ideas, with my my human brain,such as it is, and can actually
create, you know, prompts or orthought starters that I can then
build upon.
And I think that's that'sfascinating. The other thing you
said that sparked anotherprediction was was about this
(15:00):
idea of autonomous and smartsolutions going and pushing
beyond the obvious. And one ofthe things that you had kinda
started to tiptoe into was thisidea of and I think you said we
call it agents in house. Wethink about AI right now as a as
a tool, can help us give usanswers quickly or what have
you, but it's it's still, in alot of cases, a very
(15:23):
transactional approach where yougo to a tool wherever that tool
is, you prompt them with aquestion or, some sort of
activity or task to complete,and then they spit it out. What
I think that we might see thisyear, and I know you had talked
about this in a prediction, isabout this idea that it becomes
less of a transactional tool andmore of a companion.
Talk a little bit about that.
Karen Boswell (15:43):
So it's interesting, isn't it? Because
autonomous products generally,when we hear the word
autonomous, we associate it withself driving vehicles. Right?
Because that's sort of, like,the first big splash thing. And
and then you might get mumblingsof smart fridges and all of this
kind of stuff.
But I think what's interestingis that in the in the age of
autonomy, which I think we'recoming into, and the autonomous
(16:06):
Internet of things or theInternet of autonomous things, I
can't remember now, is it? IOAT?I think it's that way around.
Gotta love another acronym.Actually it's it's sort of this
idea of a a pocket companion forlife, I guess.
So building on the examples Iwas just giving in the
workplace, actually I use chatGPT probably more than I use
(16:32):
Google now because, if I'msearching for something or
wanting to understand something,I'll have a conversation with
it. If I'm preparing for aconversation I wanna have in my
head, I can spar with chap GPT.I can, you know, write agendas
and I can kind of like ask it,you know, how might you make
this better? How might you makeit lighter? And I can do you
(16:54):
think this is a good idea?
What's that based on? Can youfind some research papers? You
know, all of that kind of stuff.Can you help me jam with a few
different ideas for a workshopI'm running? And and it it's
just a different level ofcompanion versus Google, which
is comparatively quite binarythese days.
And I know they're obviouslyadvancing their own things, and
(17:16):
all of that kind of stuff, but Iguess I'm sort of referencing
the ones I have. But then Ithink the that behavior is more
mainstream now. I mean, it wasonly a year or so ago I remember
my dad kind of getting reallyconfused with why I kept talking
to Alexa. And now he's like, ewew. Came over to visit recently,
(17:38):
and he was just getting music toplay.
And we had Roy Orbison on in notime and, you know, all of this
stuff. And it's just like, okay.Well, he's 70 odd and pretty,
like, tech phobe. But but butthat behavior of engaging
without really thinking about ittoo much and allowing technology
to progress without yourinteraction in the background,
(17:59):
the trust that that is bringing,that level of autonomy is what I
think is quite interesting. Andthat's what I think is going to
be interesting between human andAI interaction.
Like, I sort of trust that my AIpartner is gonna help me move
forward. I might not take thefinite, but that behavior, I
(18:21):
think, has advanced a lot in thelast year or so.
Nick Brunker (18:24):
Yeah. I I could see it really taking off in 25
where where that becomes more ofthe, you know, default habit
where in, you know, the last,you know, 20 or 30 years, it's
always gotten better, but it'sstill been a, hey. I'll go to
Google and Google that. And nowI think what you're starting to
see is even the Googles. I saw acommercial here in the States
(18:45):
the other day where that premiseis kind of being sold.
And I know there's been thingslike Gemini and Siri out there,
Alexa, you mentioned, wherethere's still a a speak to get
sort of interaction.
But
I don't think it's been as as advanced as I believe
they're trying to project in 25,where in this commercial, I'll
just speak about it from fromthe Google perspective, where
(19:08):
they were kind of, forecastingthis this customer in the
commercial just talking to theirphone.
Hi. I'm Gemini.
Hi, Gemini?
How can I help you? So I just talk?
Karen Boswell (19:21):
Yes. But Google We can have
Nick Brunker (19:23):
a conversation about anything you like.
Anything?
The wrath of all
the Achilles. That's right. Yes. I knew it.
Next question.
I don't wanna go to jail.
Why don't you just go for 10 minutes and see how
you feel?
It's so far.
Give me another one, but more intense. Like I've
never fixed a car before.
Make it sound professional.
In regards to working this weekend, we believe
it's important to prioritize ourwell-being.
(19:45):
And I think that that sort of muscle memory is
going to advance quickly in 25,and certainly beyond. But it's,
like, kind of, you know youknow, beginning, the podcast you
talked about, how it continuesto move faster than ever. I
imagine that shift in 25 isgonna be pretty quick. But the
outcome of that is ethics andprivacy. And, you know, we
talked about it last year as oneof your predictions where tech
(20:06):
regulation is gonna continue tobecome a big deal.
I don't know if it really got,as mainstream in terms of
coverage, especially in anelection year of all years in
United States, at least. I wouldsuspect that if if we continue
to advance in the speed, inwhich we're talking, there's
gonna be some seriousregulations to follow because
(20:29):
what you just talked about,Karen, is kind of, part and
parcel to alright. Well, howdoes that shift our privacy
rules or ethics? Like, as abrand, do I retain that
information? How do I use thatinformation?
So I think there there's kind ofan interesting ethics angle
there too, isn't it?
Karen Boswell (20:45):
I agree. And I think there's still a lot of
work to be done to helpbusinesses come to terms with
how fast AI is advancing and howfast it's being adopting. And we
saw, at the end of 2023, I thinkit was, the provisional
(21:06):
agreement between the EuropeanParliament and European Council
on the Artificial IntelligenceAct. I'm not 100% up to speed
with what they're called in theUS. Apologies.
But the idea is that there aremultiple compliance processes
that are being deployed and theyare moving forward. But, there
(21:31):
are so many different cases inprogress that shift and change
faster than the law currentlycan shift and change. Yeah.
Where to place emphasis onaccountability and where human
begins and AINs is is like thissort of like symbiotic, circle
(21:55):
that just keeps blurring thelines, I guess, between, like,
what's collaboration, what'sdictatorship, what's coercive,
What's mimetic? Like, there's somuch in it.
It's quite an amorphous thing,but it is advancing. And I think
(22:16):
what's interesting is I've beenat a couple of events recently
where I have been approached by,lawyers in this space actually,
and that's new. That was new forme in 2024 where, lawyers will
come over and introducethemselves as a professional in
AI ethics. And I was like, Okay.So I think it's definitely
(22:40):
moving forward.
I think the key thing is to geta board in place. And most of
the clients that I'm workingwith, and there isn't a single
one where we're not having aconversation around AI with
them. We are pretty advanced inhaving representation from
across the business in a smallsteering committee in a room,
(23:05):
sometimes as often as once afortnight so that we can start
to address what is right for thebusiness when it comes to
understanding and governing howthey're going to position AI for
their employees, how they'regonna position AI toward, for,
(23:25):
and around their customers, howthey're going to, be transparent
about that in their reports upto stakeholders and out to
stakeholders and then downacross the organization. And the
key thing and back to thattrust. You know, I'm talking
about trust between a companionAI and a single human.
(23:51):
That needs to be there at scale.And it's no surprise to see, you
know, sort of the tech giantslike Microsoft and Apple, both
very focused and, and I thinkleaders and very much sort of
looking at what's responsible AIdevelopment, from a Microsoft
(24:11):
point of view. And Apple aregoing big on sort of strong
privacy protection. So theyfound their kind of way to sort
of lead, and I think that's agood starting place. So if a
company can find its place tolead the conversation and lead
now, I think there's still 2025and maybe even into 2026 space
(24:34):
to, make small failures, but thetime is running out for that.
The expectation will be greaterthe closer we get to that
governance. So, again, with allof this stuff, if you ignore it,
you're gonna fail. Like, it'sabout getting on board now while
we have that grace period tostill be figuring things out.
Nick Brunker (24:56):
One other thing I wanted to get into from a
prediction standpoint is how thehealth and wellness industry
might adapt as we talk about allthese technologies increasing.
Do you see 25 as a year wherethat particular vertical is even
more impacted in the year ahead?
Karen Boswell (25:13):
Yes. It's the short answer. I think last year
I sort of talked aboutsubscription based, sort of
health personalization and, youknow, referencing the Zoe's of
the world. I think we've gonefurther than that through 2024.
And, again, it does come back toembedding that sort of AI driven
(25:33):
personalization factor.
But the fact that you can nowhave DNA based pretty much
everything if you want it from,nutritional advice to workouts,
to supplements, to mentalwell-being, to personalised
storytelling, to sleep patternsand all the analysis of all of
(25:58):
those things correlated through,an app and a watch. I think,
personalized everything is isdefinitely, on the up. And I
think some of the stuff I mean Isubscribe to all of this by the
way. You know, this sort of mynew my new saying at the moment
is shut the door in 24. Likeit's been a year.
(26:20):
Like it's had very turbulent,ups and downs. And
Nick Brunker (26:25):
Mhmm.
Karen Boswell (26:25):
And it's it's, for everyone, I think. But I've
really sort of refocused in. Andso I've gone quite deep on some
of this stuff. But the idea issort of gut microbiome
profiling. I was like, well, Imean, it sounds like it would be
good to me, but what does thatmean?
But, like, it's insane. Yourgut's your gut's your second
brain. Right? There's so muchstuff that we don't understand
(26:48):
about how to look afterourselves in a world that just
gets faster and harder to livein. I do think that, health and
people's understanding of healthand their own health will just
continue to be more pertinentand more prominent into 2025 and
beyond.
(27:08):
So, yeah, I'm I'm quite excitedabout this, actually. It's
always my favorite track atSouth Bay as well, so I love
hanging around the health trackwhen I'm over there.
Nick Brunker (27:15):
Well and what I find fascinating about it, and
not to riff too deeply into it,is that that goes hand in hand
with how much does somebody,down to the individual, trust
the information it's gettingback from these things. Because,
I mean, you there these DNAbased nutrition plans are
nothing new as a thing, but it'sthe speed upon which you can get
(27:36):
something that's very valuableand usable back as a you know,
not to completely thread theneedle from how we make a CX
plan to how you, you know,create a nutrition plan. But
it's it's not that it can't bedone already. It's that it can
be done faster, potentially moreaccurate, tell you things that
you may not be able to getaccess to at the speed in which
(27:56):
AI is creating, the ability foryou to get them. And so what I
find interesting is in the inthe space of of health and
wellness, and, again, not beingan expert in in either, being
able to go down the path of,okay.
I can use the tools and it cangive me information and I can
act upon that information if Iwant to. But do I really trust
(28:17):
that it's not to use the termhallucinating or that it's
giving me inaccurateinformation? And so is there
going to be in 25 a all in? Yep.I'm totally gonna rely on
whatever Jet AI tool that Isubscribe to to decide what am I
gonna eat every day or whatshouldn't I eat.
(28:37):
I don't know. There's still thatthat, I don't know, hesitation
on my side, yet I feel likewe're not that far off. And I'm
not sure if you feel the same oror if you think that it's gonna
get so good in the 12 monthsahead that this is gonna become
the norm. I don't know. I'm I'mkind of on the fence.
Karen Boswell (28:53):
I think my my principle remains the same as I
was talking about earlieractually, when I was talking
about it in the workplace. Like,it's I consider it to be a tool
that fast tracks my knowledge. Ithink the dangers and I've seen
this and I can see it a mile offand I can't prove it when people
(29:13):
rely on AI to do their thinkingfor them. And unfortunately,
humans are inherently lazy.Like, we're lazy people.
Like, if there's a shortcut,we'll generally take it. These
are facts. These are facts.Facts by science. And it's you
(29:34):
know, if silently quitting wasthe 2024 thing, I think whatever
we call this kind of, like, AIlaziness is probably the 2025
thing that we wanna watch outfor.
But I think if you can have useit as a tool. I think nobody
will ever understand what isgoing on in your body better
than you will. And so ifsomething doesn't feel right,
(29:56):
don't do it. Like, doctorsaren't gonna disappear
overnight, but you will havemore information than you had
before, more relevant to yourmoment in time. And therefore,
that empowerment that you canget through knowledge can inform
your decisions to enhance yourhealth, to have better, more
(30:17):
sustainable eating practices, bywhich I mean enjoy today without
detriment to tomorrow.
You know? Like, I know I can eata slice of sourdough 1 or 2
times a week. If I smash apizza, I feel rubbish the day
after. Do I wanna smash a pizza?Of course I do.
Yes. You know, like,
Nick Brunker (30:34):
it's just it's just sort of understanding to
help make those decisions.
Karen Boswell (30:34):
But I think, understanding to help make those
decisions, but I think, make thedecisions on your own or, like,
with the new knowledge. Peoplethat use AI to make their
decisions and do their work forthem will be short lived. It
won't be long before it reallycan spot them.
Nick Brunker (30:52):
If last year was any indicator of of how you're
gonna do in 25 in terms of yourpredictions, you got a pretty
good track record. So, certainlyappreciate you doing this, and,
obviously, it's become kind of atradition at the end of every
year. We we take a look, at theyear ahead, and, it's certainly
exciting to catch up with youanytime. But, let's keep doing
this more in 25, and, we'llwe'll go back in December of 25
(31:15):
and take a look at how you did.
Karen Boswell (31:18):
For sure. I look forward to it.
Nick Brunker (31:20):
Thank you so much. And thanks to you all for
listening to Human Centered aswell. To learn more about VML's
CX practice and our approach tothe work, you could check us out
online at vml.com. We'd alsolove to hear your feedback on
the show. Give us a rating andoffer up your thoughts wherever
you listen to your podcasts,including Apple, Spotify,
Stitcher, Amazon, and more.
Have a topic idea or just wannadrop us a line? You can connect
(31:41):
with me on x@nickbrunker, orjust shoot us an email. The
address ishumancentered@vml.com. Thanks
again for listening. We'll seeyou next time.
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