January 18, 2025 • 35 mins
On this episode of Human Centered, VML Chief Innovation Officer Brian Yamada joins host Nick Brunker fresh from CES 2025 to discuss the latest technological innovations shaping our future. From AI's evolution into the experience era to emotionally intelligent robots and breakthrough developments in health and accessibility, Brian unpacks how artificial intelligence is moving beyond content creation to fundamentally reshape how we interact with technology in our daily lives.
The conversation explores how brands can leverage these emerging technologies, the rise of local AI models, and what these developments mean for marketers and brands looking to create more meaningful consumer connections. Brian also shares insights on how companies can stay ahead of rapid technological change while maintaining authentic human connections in an increasingly AI-driven world.
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Episode Transcript
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Nick Brunker (00:02):
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm
Nick Brunker, a managingdirector of experience strategy
at VML and your host for theshow. Thanks for giving us a
listen. Every January,innovators and industry leaders
from around the world to send onLas Vegas for CES, the Consumer
Electronics Show, where we get aglimpse yet again of what is
shaping our future, what'sahead, and who better to guide
(00:22):
us through these emerginginnovations than our very own
VML chief innovation officer,Brian Yamada. Fresh from the
show floor in Vegas, Brian'sgonna help us unpack some
fascinating developments fromAI's evolution into the
experience era to robotsdesigned to make us feel more
human to breakthroughtechnologies and health and
accessibility.
We'll explore how artificialintelligence is moving beyond
(00:44):
just content creation to reshapehow we interact with technology
in our daily lives, and mostimportantly, what that means for
brands and marketers. Brian,welcome back to the show. Thanks
for doing this again.
Brian Yamada (00:56):
Hey, Nick. How are you doing? Thanks for having me.
Nick Brunker (00:58):
Doing well. You're a busy man and flying around all
over the place, including LasVegas. So I appreciate you
taking some time afterwards, tokind of, decompress a little bit
and chat about what you learned.Probably safe to assume as the
intro would suggest, kinda goinginto the year AI was going to be
on the center stage in 2025. Youmentioned that as we were kind
of prepping for the show thatwhile there might not have been
(01:19):
any single breakthrough momentat CES, what's fascinating, you
say, is how rapidly everythingis evolving.
Tell us more about that.
Brian Yamada (01:26):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you think
about CES has had flying cars,robots, for for a number of
years. So, it's it's not likewe're we're seeing things for
the first time, but I absolutelythink that everything is moving,
at at a very high speed, meaningprogressing, refining, getting
(01:48):
closer to, getting closer totoday. Even things so artificial
intelligence, everybody has beentalking about it for a while,
but I would say, like, it itused to sound futuristic.
It's here. It's built into theproducts. It's powering, it's
powering them. And and, and notin in all cases, it's not
necessarily perfect, not in itsvital form, but you can
(02:10):
definitely see how much faster,and better all these different
smart technologies are becoming.
Nick Brunker (02:16):
You've attended CES for for many years, and you
kinda talked about how the speedin which it's evolving is
impressive. How is this year'spresence of AI different than
from previous years, if if atall?
Brian Yamada (02:28):
You're you're starting to see it. It's it was
less marketing buzz. I I don'tthink, I think in last year's
show, maybe maybe the lastcouple, everybody was talking
about AI because they felt theyhad to. Mhmm. I would say you're
starting to see it truly, like,functionally integrating,
powering the products in in inbetter ways.
(02:49):
And again, it it not necessarilyalways in final final form, but
I think, I think you you'reseeing, better, smarter use
cases, better, smarter featuresthat are starting to come
through and, that, you know,easing the interface layer a bit
more.
Nick Brunker (03:05):
Mhmm. And and you're talking about that
layering approach or or how AIhas evolved from being a
creation tool where you'repunching in a prompt and it
spits out some stuff, or even asit evolved, quickly, as you
mentioned, with the ability tocreate an image that's, you
know, more and more on point towhat you prompt it with. Walk us
through how it's evolving fromthat creation tool to more of an
(03:27):
experience layer.
Brian Yamada (03:28):
Sure. So, you know, generative AI, so the
ability to generate text orimages, video, 3 d, 3 d objects,
games, code. The AI generative,we would define as, like, the
the AI to create. And theJetGPT, like, putting a prompt
(03:49):
window on the front end of thatmade that accessible really for
anybody. And we you've got textto speech, voice to speech, like
voice interactions, but it it'sreally AI that's helping us
create objects and elements.
So from a brand and a marketingstandpoint, it's helping to have
more, make content that's morerelevant, more personalized,
(04:11):
etcetera, but it's not it didn'treally dramatically affect the
interface layer. Right? Youstill you still have a person
coming to a web page, and theexperience isn't necessarily all
that different. This next era,AI will be charge supercharging
that experience, making it muchmore dynamic. It could be that
there's a chatbot interface.
(04:31):
It could be that it's lookingat, and getting inputs of how
you're browsing the screen,where you're pausing, if you
have something like an angryclick, that we can then trigger
off of those things
Nick Brunker (04:44):
Yep.
Brian Yamada (04:45):
In essentially in real time. So you're still a
person coming to the website inthat sort of scenario, but the
experience is much more tuned,much, much more dynamic. You
know, we would say, like, youheard the word real time a lot
around CES this year, and Ithink that the ability for AI
to, to dramatically exchangechange how dynamic that
(05:08):
experience layer is, you youthat's what we're starting to
see at the beginnings of thisyear.
Nick Brunker (05:12):
Were there any specific standout examples or,
you know, particular, you know,wow moments in those those
areas?
Brian Yamada (05:18):
I'll give an example that was kind of an
accessibility tech. If you'revisually impaired, the, one of
the devices, your interface tothe world was haptics and a
white stick that you would taparound you to try to make sure
that you didn't trip overanything. Right? And what we're
moving toward, there was acompany that had a product
(05:41):
called Glide, and it'sessentially, you know, a sensor
enabled walking stick. So hadwheels, had sensors at the
bottom, haptic and pull to helpidentify and navigate a person.
And then at the top, it had acamera that would identify and
read the room. Right? So you'reusing computer vision, it's
breaking down the world aroundyou, but it had a conversational
(06:05):
interface on top of that. So, Ididn't fully test this, but in
talking with, with the creatorsof that, they said, you know, if
you're if you're standing evenin a crowded environment like
Eureka Park in CES, that youcould say, help me find the
bathroom. And with the camera,it would actually help to kind
of pull and navigate you arounduntil it identified the signage
(06:28):
and then pulled you into theright space.
Or in that, in theory, you couldyou could say, help take me to
this booth number, and it couldnavigate you to that spot. So
it's both the combination ofyou're starting to see the
combination of technologies, andthen that AI experience layer
that makes it, you know, simple,makes it conversational to help
(06:49):
you, help you solve.
Nick Brunker (06:51):
Right? Wild. What's so, so crazy to think
that how many years has has thistechnology been in existence,
but the final ways to be able tonot only create the application,
but but scale it to a placewhere it can be be used and then
solving real true humanproblems. And and one thing that
we talked about, again, preshow, we saw AI, and you said
you saw AI taking physical formthrough robotics this year. What
(07:14):
struck, you about thisevolution, particularly in terms
of human interaction andemotional connection?
Brian Yamada (07:20):
You know, as I said, like, robots have been
around for a bit. I think you'restarting to see them in all
shapes and sizes Mhmm. And,accelerating, quickly in terms
of, how well, you know, one,they can navigate the world
around them, how well thingslike computer vision and models
can help them, understandcontextually the space. And then
(07:43):
the, you know, that sort ofconversational layer that allows
us to interact with them in muchmore, let's call it human ways,
and that real time thing. Theit, you know, it it wasn't many
years ago you would it was sortof a novelty.
You would you could have aconversation with a robot, but
it was, like, super awkward.Yes. You'd have to wait. He'd
say something, and you could seeit pause and process, and then
(08:09):
it would say something in avery, like, robotic, quote,
unquote, way. You know, it'sjust stilted conversation that
comes back through, and yourexpectation of of how that
conversation would go would bevery low.
You know, the that layer ischanging fast. And I think, you
know, we're we're moving intobetter spatial understanding,
(08:33):
spatial computing. I think thatthe robotics targeted with
things like warehouse automationand those types of things have
been a starting point in from ab to b standpoint. But, there
are robots that will navigateyour home. There's a robot
vacuum cleaner that would pickup a sock and had a have the
robotic arm, but they really,like, pick it up and throw it
(08:54):
over.
So, but, you know, so we'rewe're starting to see the
beginnings of, robot robots thatare that are useful.
Nick Brunker (09:02):
So what did you observe about how the tech is is
being designed? I mean, you yougive the example of, well, there
needs to be a physical arm topick up the socks so that, it
doesn't get sucked into thewheels. I mean, that may be one
example, but what else did youobserve about how they're being
designed to address theemotional side of the house?
Brian Yamada (09:20):
Yeah. I mean, in, there were a ton of robots that
were really designed forcompanionship. I don't know if
that's the right word. There's arobot dog that was, built for
people with dementia that wouldhelp help comfort them, help
kind of put them at ease, reduceanxiety. There were, robot
(09:41):
planters that would bring aplant to life that as you pet
and interact, like, pet andinteract with the plant or
tickle it, it would laugh.
It
Nick Brunker (09:49):
would No kidding.
Brian Yamada (09:50):
It could tell you when it needs water. So, you
know, that that ability to sortof give everything a personality
of sorts and help you feel moreconnected, less alone, was
definitely everywhere. Lots oflots of cute looking robots.
Even like Samsung has had Ballyfor a number of years. Bally, I
(10:13):
don't know not sure which waythey pronounce that.
But, they're like, they talkedabout that actually being
commercially available as westart to roll out this year.
Nick Brunker (10:21):
Let's talk practical applications, and you
also kind of, you know, dove ina little bit to accessibility,
and how AI is making smart homessmarter. You you off the top,
we're talking about how versusjust kind of existing as a
technology as things are are nowbecoming more embedded with
these things. What developmentsstood out to you this year?
Brian Yamada (10:41):
I think we're seeing the the the beginnings
of, some of some of thesecombinations of technologies. If
you look at something like,Samsung and their AI family hub,
it's, you know, designed to makethe refrigerator smarter and
make it the the central part ofyour home again. You used to,
like, use magnets and putpictures up or put calendars up
(11:04):
and that type of thing. Nowthere's a screen on the front of
that that refrigerator, and youcan still aggregate photos, you
could display the familycalendar, you could, have a
shared, grocery list and thingsyou want. And then it has
cameras on the inside as well.
So the the system has anunderstanding of what's there.
(11:24):
It can tell you when the milk'sgonna expire. You can say, hey,
what what should I make fordinner tonight? I think the kids
are in the mood for this type ofthing, and it can help suggest
different recipes and so on. SoI think that's, it's the
beginning of what will start tohappen on a larger scale, where
we have cameras, sensors, andbetter data integrated
(11:47):
throughout the home.
You know, recipe wise, like, thefridge, fridge has part of the
ingredients, but doesn't haveall the stuff in the pantry or
your spice cabinet Right. Orsome of the, you know, some of
the other parts of your kitchen.So, I think as we're you can
start to see where the thingsare headed. And I like to use
the phrase like prototypes ofthe future. Your kitchen should
(12:11):
have all of that knowledge.
You should be able to know andunderstand all the things that
are on your shelf when thingsare going bad. You know, it
should warn you that thosebananas, it's probably time to
throw it out before they meltand drip all over your shelf.
Right? Like, that type of thingis not not far away, and all the
hardware is there. Mhmm.
AI can power the software layer,I think, in a much more,
(12:33):
interactive way. But, right now,what I think we're seeing is the
people that are owning aparticular device or appliance,
like, that one thing is gettingsmarter better. What's coming
is, knitting together all thedatasets and providing sort of
that interface or applicationlayer that that allows you to
(12:54):
manage the full environment, notjust the one thing.
Nick Brunker (12:57):
I think back to something you said sparked a
thought about how as marketersand CX pros who often are
serving, brands and supportingbrands and, those that are
listening that are working for aparticular brand or company. I I
I liken what you said to how,things began to develop as
Apple's iPhone, came to market.It was a brilliant device, had
(13:20):
lots of great new technology.But the real challenge for
people in our industry was,okay. Well, how how can I apply
that technology and make mybrand, you know, relevant to my
customer base based on this newtechnology that's at my
fingertips?
And the smart fridge or SmartKitchen, frankly, you you were
mentioning reminds me of thingslike if I'm in the the grocery
(13:41):
industry or if I'm maybe aparticular food item, like,
those there's nothing would bestopping us if it's if the data
is there and the connection'sthere. Not only to remind you
that you're out of food or giveyou recipe ideas, but then say,
hey. You can actually order thatright now. Do you want me to
order it for you and then sendit to your door? Yes.
And through a Kroger or a Publixor whatever, you could pull that
(14:02):
off. I am fascinated to hear andsee, and this is not really a
question, more just anobservation, how those
technologies become, moreingrained with our everyday
brands and and how brands
Brian Yamada (14:15):
Agree.
Nick Brunker (14:15):
Start to show up. I think it's gonna be
fascinating.
Brian Yamada (14:18):
Yeah. And I totally agree with you. I feel
like the you know, there are,like, smart home alliances or
platforms like Matter that aredesigned to connect the let's
call it the connected devices,the IoT things that are in your
home and allow you to have oneinterface there. But, you know,
I I think companies are gonnahave to think about, what other
(14:39):
APIs, what other ecosystems theywanna connect into that are the
natural extensions from that. Soyour grocery example is great.
That's, you shouldn't youshouldn't have to take the list
and then retype it in anotherspot. Totally. Let's reduce the
friction. Let's make sure thatit's easy to think about, what
you might display. And the sameis the reverse is also true.
Like, if you wanna get a recipefrom, whatever, Campbell Soup or
(15:04):
this particular brand that'scoming in from your fridge,
like, the they they should couldopen could and should open up
those types of environments thesame way that when Apple opened
up the App Store, you had theability to choose, like, what
types of companies and brands doyou wanna put in that space?
Mhmm. As devices get smarter,screen starts to go everywhere,
I think companies are gonna needto start to make that type of
(15:25):
choice.
Nick Brunker (15:26):
Or you could reconnect neighborhoods by
having the smart fridges knowwhat's in your neighbor's fridge
and be able to say, hey. I'm outof eggs. Who has eggs? And, no.
I know this person has eggs.
Make sure you're giving me youreggs. I think it's it's
fascinating, man. It's gonna beawesome. You you touched on
something earlier that I thinkmay have more to it, and it was
a relation to the, the exampleof somebody being guided who who
(15:48):
may not have the the best siteor has a site impairment of some
kind to be able to guide them,you know, both haptically, but
audio through a crowded room tothe bathroom. You were talking
about that as an example, but itwere there additional examples
in that health and innovationaccessibility space that excited
you?
Brian Yamada (16:05):
Health, wellness, digital technologies. Like,
there's, there's there arealways amazing technologies that
are there. I have an eye issue,so I'm always, like, very
interested in seeing, like,where where some of vision tech
going and, how are you solvingvision problems for people that
have, like, macular degenerationor or have issues with, with
(16:25):
certain portions of theirvision? I did see some tech that
was a little bit related tothat. I tested it, but, didn't
it was one of those things thatdidn't seem quite there yet.
It was still a little bitdisorienting, I would say more
than fully solving the problem.The in the real time category,
there was a first, thermometer,is it was I think the phrase
(16:49):
that they were trying to invent,which was, essentially saliva
based real time hormone testing.So you could order a kit, put a
put this sort of strip in yourmouth for a couple of minutes
and then pull it through andthen take a picture of it with
your phone using theirapplication. And it would tell
you it would measure foreverybody, hormone related to
(17:11):
stress. And then, this initialwave was measuring particular
female hormones designed totrack things like fertility or
to track, hormones as as womenare going through menopause that
would help them understand theirpatterns, could make
recommendations around, like, onthe stress side, do you need to
eat or sleep less?
And on the hormone side, wouldgive you much better markers to
(17:35):
track in detail so that youcould manage, manage things
more, more closely with yourdocs.
Nick Brunker (17:41):
It's wild. Yep. That's absolutely crazy. There's
an interesting trend, and Ithink we saw it at scale this
year with local AI models andpersonal devices. Obviously,
within WPP and VML, we'reworking through, you know,
creating apps to to leverage ourAI tools internally.
And then, obviously, the, youknow, more, obvious examples
(18:02):
where Apple and Google areembedding AI into, the the
phones that we we buy. How mightthis shift start to or continue
to impact users' privacy andsustainability? Because that
seems to be another reallyinteresting, and I would assume,
rapidly emerging trend thatwe're gonna have to think about
as marketers.
Brian Yamada (18:21):
With a lot of the, I would describe as sort of this
early stage exploration thatthat we're doing today, we're
plugging into these largelanguage models and using a high
amount of compute to try to getto a dad joke or whatever
whatever the use case is.
Nick Brunker (18:38):
Get out of my head.
Brian Yamada (18:40):
Clearly, clearly, you'd see, like, the odd things
I'd sometimes use models for.Anyway, but and typically, those
those interactions are happeningthrough API calls and
connections. So the the computeand the models are really
running in different places.When you hear phrases like AI PC
or AI at the edge or, AI AIenabling chips that allow models
(19:05):
to run on your local machine.You're sort of reversing that.
Right? So instead of your datagoing elsewhere, you're able to
keep your data local and thenhave the models run-in that
environment. Mhmm. So and Ithink, you know, in those cases,
typically, will there'll bemodels that are designed for a
particular use case. So I doubtnot sure there'll be a model for
(19:27):
dad jokes.
Maybe there will. But there maybe models for locally running
the, stress recommendations.Right? So, in that in that
particular example or modelsthat are helping to solve for,
very particular problems or usecases that they'll be smaller,
better, more finely tuned forthat particular thing. So the
(19:49):
the amount of compute, theamount of energy that it takes
to run that, and the usercontrol and safety in terms of
your dataset will really startto improve.
So, know, I would use a phraselike small will be the new big.
Mhmm. Large language models helpto enable this sort of bright
summer of AI, but I think you'llstart to see, the knitting
(20:10):
together of many different typesof AI applications and agents,
that will work together to solvethe problem that the a person is
looking for in a small, a wayand specific a way as it can.
Nick Brunker (20:24):
So we think about kind of in that same vein and,
you know, ethics. I talked toKaren Boswell, an episode or 2
ago about kinda that thatgeneral theme. Do you see any,
like, examples of of how AI orany other technology for that
matter while you were out there?Was that kinda tech for good?
Brian Yamada (20:43):
Yeah. I mean, I think on the on the privacy
side, not not yet. I the our ourcontrols are still pretty, it's
like a bad a very basic on offswitch.
Nick Brunker (20:56):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (20:57):
I can I can ask a company, like, tell me all the
information you have on me, andI'd say, go erase it? But, I I
do think, especially inscenarios like the connected
home, smart home, categorieslike health, the concept of,
contextually understanding whatinteraction needs to happen and
(21:18):
what portions of your datasetyou wanna give permission to a
doctor or to whatever for thatparticular, that particular use
case. I I do think AI will makethat, will solve that problem
because it it is a highlycomplex one. But, we're not I
don't think we're quite thereyet. There there was amazing
(21:40):
tech for like, CS has done a lotto try to, have have bring that
forward as part of part of theshow.
A couple of the interestingthings. One of the interesting
things I remember seeing wassomething called Cumulus. So it
was a device that pulled waterfrom the air, essentially the
(22:01):
humidity in the air, and couldeven do it in, you know, desert
environments. So think aboutsolving for that problem of,
access to clean water in incertain parts of the globe. You
this device, it was actually alittle bit bigger.
It was caught up in customs whenI went through the first time,
but, it a very large device thatcould output anywhere from,
(22:24):
like, 30 to even close to 70 or80 liters per day. Wow. And
could be connected to solar tohelp power that. But, like, that
sort of air, water from air typetech, there's a different
company that was doing that on asmall scale for connected to a
coffee machine. So if you wantedto have wanted to lower the
(22:47):
amount of water that you'reyou're having to use for your
cup of coffee in the morning.
Like, that that type of techwill start to get integrated on
a smaller scale just into intoour into our homes.
Nick Brunker (22:58):
It's wild. Let's shift a bit, before we run out
of time on the developments and,implications for for business
and consumer relationships.Let's start with how do you see
some of these advances affectingthe ways brands can connect with
with customers?
Brian Yamada (23:14):
So we talked about the waves, you know, the
generative wave, the AI movinginto this experience era. And I
think that's the that is verymuch the now. I think all brands
have an opportunity to start tolook at, how and where can they
better AI enable the experiencesthat and the interactions that
(23:35):
happen when they get in theircar, when they come to your
website, when they're callingcustomer service. You can think
about all the different placeswhere, you can reduce friction
or increase ease and increasejoy. Mhmm.
Those, I think I think there'san opportunity for all companies
to begin to reexamine that. Andthen when if you've heard the
(24:00):
phrase, agentic AI, so thatthat's the next wave that's
that's coming. So if you thinkabout the experience layers, the
now, agentic will be the next,and you will have we'll have an
AI agent that will help you planyour vacation. So instead of
going to search, going to abunch of websites and making
(24:22):
your own list, you'll have anagent that's assisting you in
doing that discovery. In the insthe a your agent will say, do
you want me to show you theseoptions on a map?
Would you like to see photos ofthe different hotels or resorts?
Or, I've narrowed it down tothese Airbnbs or VRBOs. Would
you like to get a virtual tour?And it's doing the work for you.
(24:45):
The implication of that from abrand standpoint is, similar to,
like, the first era of the SEO,when SEO came about, like, we
had to figure out, like, how thesearch algorithms work and how
we presented brand informationin a way that made it accessible
to the search algorithms.
As agentic AI starts to come in,we will enter the machine to
(25:08):
machine era where, like, the oldHollywood phrase was, have your
people talk to my people. Yeah.In this agentic AI era, it will
be our brand agents talking toaudience agents, to figure out
what your that person's lookingfor, and then determine what
parts of the dataset you want toprovide to help solve that
(25:30):
problem. And I think we'll alsohave to think about the concept
of a brand API.
Nick Brunker (25:35):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (25:35):
Like, what data are you willing to extend? In
some cases, you'd what what whatimagery, some of the basic
stuff, you might you might sayyou'll extend for free and make
that available. There might be,like, hey, we have this amazing
three d experience if yourperson would like to see how how
well their car their kids willfit in the back seat of that
car. But you need to come to ourplace for that. Or you might
(25:59):
say, we're willing to to showyou pricing or willing to show
you our promotions, but we needyou to opt in.
We need to understand who thisperson is. I think those types
of interactions and scenarioswill, will start to refine. So,
like, brand agents, and brandAPIs will be the sort of future
thing to keep an eye on.
Nick Brunker (26:19):
So you you were pulling on a thread that I know
Heather Fiziac and I who's, reallike, at ground 0 of all things,
search intelligence. We kindawent down that road, in a couple
episodes ago if you wanna goback and listen to anybody who's
listening to to the show now,there's an interesting impact on
brands and content creation, notjust like how the content is
(26:41):
actually written and put ontothe site, the metatags, and all
the back end data. But there'sthere is this interesting
dynamic with what you werementioning around, you know,
whether it's Gen AI, you know,relevant content building. There
is something to be said aboutbrands creating better versus
more content, which has alwaysbeen like, well, what does
better mean? Do you see aseismic shift on the horizon
(27:05):
about how brands have toactually create the content, not
just experiences, but thecontent that underpin them in
order to not just be visible,but be useful in this new world
that's maybe getting away fromjust keywords and pages to more
experiential and to your point,agent agent led product and
brand brand, visibility.
Brian Yamada (27:26):
Yeah. I mean, so, arguably, we're just at the
beginning of this generativeera.
Nick Brunker (27:32):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (27:32):
Right? So image, generative images, now
commercially saved, videos, justbehind. But we're still we're
still kind of at the early pointof how much how much generated,
generative content is out therenow. But, I'll actually move
away from the search engines andlook at it more from the
audience side, which is like aspeople, we like right now, you
(27:57):
have access to everythingeverywhere all at once. You can
listen to any music from anycatalog, from any era, at the
touch of a keystroke or a punchto your phone, same in terms of
content and movies.
And so so if you think about thecontext of we're at the
(28:17):
beginning of this exponentialwave of how easy it is to
create, and we're but ouraudience is already overwhelmed.
The implication means, the thestuff that our audiences will
pay attention to is the stuffthat won't make them feel,
that's relevant to them, thatsolves a problem, that makes
them laugh or makes them cry oror makes them happy. Right? Like
(28:41):
the, the the rise of thisgenerative era will actually
increase the importance of, howrelevant we need to be, how
personalized in some respects,but it it can't just be personal
for the sake of of how we think,what we think might be personal
to that person. I think, it willgive us an ability to really
(29:01):
hone in to understand, like,well, what actually matters to
them, and how do we deliverthose things and and, in ways
that that impact and really drawthem closer.
Nick Brunker (29:12):
We're just now less than 12 months away from
you going back to CES to seewhat happens next year. As you
think back to this year's tripto Vegas, what developments do
you think are gonna have themost significant impact on our
industry maybe over the nextcouple or or three significant
impact on our industry maybeover the next couple or or 3
years?
Brian Yamada (29:29):
On our industry, specifically?
Nick Brunker (29:30):
Mhmm. Yes.
Brian Yamada (29:31):
Yep. Yeah, I I think I think there's a massive
opportunity to to, that thatrise in the experience, like, to
to really, AI enable, what howhow you walk through the store,
how you interact with a doctor,how how you can better
(29:51):
understand, what the heckthey're saying to you when
you're having a conversation. Orto for, like, you to be there
when, afterward, if you have anelderly parent that had a
meeting with a doctor and thenyou wanna have you wanna get a
distilled version of that later.Like, the all of that type of
(30:11):
those types of experiences arevery, very possible technically.
And they're but they're right atour fingertips from a brand
experience, from standpoint.
So, like, what what can wecreate today, to me, that that
will that will really be usefulor really be powerful in making
people more at ease or makingthem comfortable, improving
(30:34):
their happiness, improving howhow well they use your product.
Like, all of those things, Ithink we have an opportunity to
to, to rethink. So when we talkabout the experience layer, I
think, it isn't just like, doyou own the car experience? It
could it could be, like, how doyou extend from what how people
use your product and what theyuse it for? And what more could
(30:56):
you do?
That is we have superpowers atour fingertips today. So I think
that's the largest takeaway.
Nick Brunker (31:02):
I think that's fascinating when you when you
kinda let us down that road withmachine to machine. If if these
all can connect and talk to eachother, what other amazing things
could be at our fingertips if,you know, to mention again,
these are 2 unrelated things,but maybe not that unrelated.
Your car talking to your fridgeor your lights or anything. I
mean, that that technology isjust in its its early early
(31:23):
days, first couple of innings ofit, but you're right. There's
there's a lot to unpack there.
And, obviously, as a marketerourselves or both of us kind of
in the space, the questions thatI get a lot are, how do we stay
ahead of all this? How do wemaintain authentic human
connections, but also keepourselves up to speed? I mean,
you do a great job at at VML,like, helping spearhead and give
(31:44):
give our teams, the the toolsand the resources to learn. But,
you know, marketing is a fulltime job in itself, yet you're
also kinda learning newtechnology. What would advice
would you give to to us and ourindustry on on staying ahead of
all this?
Brian Yamada (31:57):
It is challenging. And because the market is moving
at such a high rate of speed, Ithink the important thing is
just to stay aware, staycurious, stay hungry. You know
what I mean? Like, keep youreyes open for the things that
spark. And periodically, like,get out of your bubble, get out
(32:19):
of the day to day of the thecontent that you're making and
the channels that you'redelivering in now to ask
yourself, like, well, what elsecould could we do?
And just start to block a littlebit of of time, a little bit of
dollars to explore, like, whatmight be. And just like at CES,
like, some of that stuff, it maybe the right idea wrong time.
(32:42):
Maybe the tech isn't quitethere. But, I think going
through, like, staying curiousand trying to trying to continue
to explore at least the what'sgetting the headlines, what's
what are some of the majorthings that are that are taking
place in emerging technologies,and beginning to explore a
little bit, like, how does itwork with my brand? Or how does
(33:02):
it work?
How how are are the people, theaudiences that I'm trying to
reach changing in terms of theirmedia behavior, in terms of the
devices they're they'reinteracting with? And what does
that mean in terms ofopportunities for my brand to
show up in new ways, unexpectedways. Right? So, like, brands
that find breakthroughexperiences or interactions in
(33:24):
new channels, typically get bigheadlines. Sometimes you win
awards and hardware.
Like, there there's value to befound, I think, in just doing a
little bit of exploration tofind, things that have never
been done before.
Nick Brunker (33:38):
So the obligatory bonus question at the end, and
it may be a tough one to answerbecause you, I'm sure, absorbed
a lot. Your head must have beenwanting to explode by the end of
the week. If you had to pick onething from CES this year that
marketers should be payingattention to right now, what
would it be and why?
Brian Yamada (33:55):
You know what? I'll stay in that tech for good
category. K. I think, I thinkthere's a a massive opportunity
for, when you because when yousay the word accessibility, I
think for a lot of marketers,they're aiming for the minimum
legal requirements. Mhmm.
How do I make sure that we havemetadata to so readers are
(34:15):
there. And I think they're thetech is there today to start to
do things that are breakthroughthat give your brand again,
like, outsized credit for beinghuman and just making letting
everybody buy your stuff in easyways or use your product in easy
ways. Right? So I think there's,there's outsized value, to be
(34:39):
found there, and it's just theright thing to do. So why why
shouldn't we all be exploringhow to how to make things
easier, better for everybody?
And typically, because you'redoing some of that
experimentation at the edge tosolve for sometimes the hardest
use cases, what you'll find isyou'll you might be able to
improve or find discoveries thatare actually valuable for
(35:01):
everybody. So I think, doingsome exploration on
accessibility and emerging techenabled accessibility is I
think, a lot of our clientswould find some really rich
territories and new solutions.
Nick Brunker (35:12):
Brian, I learn so much from you every time we have
a chance to sit down. I know ourlisteners do too. Thank you so
much for carving out a fewminutes to do this, and we'll
talk soon.
Brian Yamada (35:20):
Absolutely. Thank you, Nick.
Nick Brunker (35:21):
And thanks to you all for listening to Human
Centered as well. To learn moreabout VML CX practice and our
approach to the work, check usout online atvml.com. We'd also
love to hear your feedback onthe show. Give us a rating and
offer up your thoughts whereveryou listen to your podcasts,
including Apple, Spotify,Stitcher, Amazon, and more. Have
a topic idea or wanna drop us aline, you can connect with me on
(35:41):
x@nickbrunker, or shoot us anemail.
The address ishumancentered@vml.com. Thanks
again for listening. We'll seeyou next time.
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Human Centered. I'm
Nick Brunker, a managingdirector of experience strategy
at VML and your host for theshow. Thanks for giving us a
listen. Every January,innovators and industry leaders
from around the world to send onLas Vegas for CES, the Consumer
Electronics Show, where we get aglimpse yet again of what is
shaping our future, what'sahead, and who better to guide
(00:22):
us through these emerginginnovations than our very own
VML chief innovation officer,Brian Yamada. Fresh from the
show floor in Vegas, Brian'sgonna help us unpack some
fascinating developments fromAI's evolution into the
experience era to robotsdesigned to make us feel more
human to breakthroughtechnologies and health and
accessibility.
We'll explore how artificialintelligence is moving beyond
(00:44):
just content creation to reshapehow we interact with technology
in our daily lives, and mostimportantly, what that means for
brands and marketers. Brian,welcome back to the show. Thanks
for doing this again.
Brian Yamada (00:56):
Hey, Nick. How are you doing? Thanks for having me.
Nick Brunker (00:58):
Doing well. You're a busy man and flying around all
over the place, including LasVegas. So I appreciate you
taking some time afterwards, tokind of, decompress a little bit
and chat about what you learned.Probably safe to assume as the
intro would suggest, kinda goinginto the year AI was going to be
on the center stage in 2025. Youmentioned that as we were kind
of prepping for the show thatwhile there might not have been
(01:19):
any single breakthrough momentat CES, what's fascinating, you
say, is how rapidly everythingis evolving.
Tell us more about that.
Brian Yamada (01:26):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you think
about CES has had flying cars,robots, for for a number of
years. So, it's it's not likewe're we're seeing things for
the first time, but I absolutelythink that everything is moving,
at at a very high speed, meaningprogressing, refining, getting
(01:48):
closer to, getting closer totoday. Even things so artificial
intelligence, everybody has beentalking about it for a while,
but I would say, like, it itused to sound futuristic.
It's here. It's built into theproducts. It's powering, it's
powering them. And and, and notin in all cases, it's not
necessarily perfect, not in itsvital form, but you can
(02:10):
definitely see how much faster,and better all these different
smart technologies are becoming.
Nick Brunker (02:16):
You've attended CES for for many years, and you
kinda talked about how the speedin which it's evolving is
impressive. How is this year'spresence of AI different than
from previous years, if if atall?
Brian Yamada (02:28):
You're you're starting to see it. It's it was
less marketing buzz. I I don'tthink, I think in last year's
show, maybe maybe the lastcouple, everybody was talking
about AI because they felt theyhad to. Mhmm. I would say you're
starting to see it truly, like,functionally integrating,
powering the products in in inbetter ways.
(02:49):
And again, it it not necessarilyalways in final final form, but
I think, I think you you'reseeing, better, smarter use
cases, better, smarter featuresthat are starting to come
through and, that, you know,easing the interface layer a bit
more.
Nick Brunker (03:05):
Mhmm. And and you're talking about that
layering approach or or how AIhas evolved from being a
creation tool where you'repunching in a prompt and it
spits out some stuff, or even asit evolved, quickly, as you
mentioned, with the ability tocreate an image that's, you
know, more and more on point towhat you prompt it with. Walk us
through how it's evolving fromthat creation tool to more of an
(03:27):
experience layer.
Brian Yamada (03:28):
Sure. So, you know, generative AI, so the
ability to generate text orimages, video, 3 d, 3 d objects,
games, code. The AI generative,we would define as, like, the
the AI to create. And theJetGPT, like, putting a prompt
(03:49):
window on the front end of thatmade that accessible really for
anybody. And we you've got textto speech, voice to speech, like
voice interactions, but it it'sreally AI that's helping us
create objects and elements.
So from a brand and a marketingstandpoint, it's helping to have
more, make content that's morerelevant, more personalized,
(04:11):
etcetera, but it's not it didn'treally dramatically affect the
interface layer. Right? Youstill you still have a person
coming to a web page, and theexperience isn't necessarily all
that different. This next era,AI will be charge supercharging
that experience, making it muchmore dynamic. It could be that
there's a chatbot interface.
(04:31):
It could be that it's lookingat, and getting inputs of how
you're browsing the screen,where you're pausing, if you
have something like an angryclick, that we can then trigger
off of those things
Nick Brunker (04:44):
Yep.
Brian Yamada (04:45):
In essentially in real time. So you're still a
person coming to the website inthat sort of scenario, but the
experience is much more tuned,much, much more dynamic. You
know, we would say, like, youheard the word real time a lot
around CES this year, and Ithink that the ability for AI
to, to dramatically exchangechange how dynamic that
(05:08):
experience layer is, you youthat's what we're starting to
see at the beginnings of thisyear.
Nick Brunker (05:12):
Were there any specific standout examples or,
you know, particular, you know,wow moments in those those
areas?
Brian Yamada (05:18):
I'll give an example that was kind of an
accessibility tech. If you'revisually impaired, the, one of
the devices, your interface tothe world was haptics and a
white stick that you would taparound you to try to make sure
that you didn't trip overanything. Right? And what we're
moving toward, there was acompany that had a product
(05:41):
called Glide, and it'sessentially, you know, a sensor
enabled walking stick. So hadwheels, had sensors at the
bottom, haptic and pull to helpidentify and navigate a person.
And then at the top, it had acamera that would identify and
read the room. Right? So you'reusing computer vision, it's
breaking down the world aroundyou, but it had a conversational
(06:05):
interface on top of that. So, Ididn't fully test this, but in
talking with, with the creatorsof that, they said, you know, if
you're if you're standing evenin a crowded environment like
Eureka Park in CES, that youcould say, help me find the
bathroom. And with the camera,it would actually help to kind
of pull and navigate you arounduntil it identified the signage
(06:28):
and then pulled you into theright space.
Or in that, in theory, you couldyou could say, help take me to
this booth number, and it couldnavigate you to that spot. So
it's both the combination ofyou're starting to see the
combination of technologies, andthen that AI experience layer
that makes it, you know, simple,makes it conversational to help
(06:49):
you, help you solve.
Nick Brunker (06:51):
Right? Wild. What's so, so crazy to think
that how many years has has thistechnology been in existence,
but the final ways to be able tonot only create the application,
but but scale it to a placewhere it can be be used and then
solving real true humanproblems. And and one thing that
we talked about, again, preshow, we saw AI, and you said
you saw AI taking physical formthrough robotics this year. What
(07:14):
struck, you about thisevolution, particularly in terms
of human interaction andemotional connection?
Brian Yamada (07:20):
You know, as I said, like, robots have been
around for a bit. I think you'restarting to see them in all
shapes and sizes Mhmm. And,accelerating, quickly in terms
of, how well, you know, one,they can navigate the world
around them, how well thingslike computer vision and models
can help them, understandcontextually the space. And then
(07:43):
the, you know, that sort ofconversational layer that allows
us to interact with them in muchmore, let's call it human ways,
and that real time thing. Theit, you know, it it wasn't many
years ago you would it was sortof a novelty.
You would you could have aconversation with a robot, but
it was, like, super awkward.Yes. You'd have to wait. He'd
say something, and you could seeit pause and process, and then
(08:09):
it would say something in avery, like, robotic, quote,
unquote, way. You know, it'sjust stilted conversation that
comes back through, and yourexpectation of of how that
conversation would go would bevery low.
You know, the that layer ischanging fast. And I think, you
know, we're we're moving intobetter spatial understanding,
(08:33):
spatial computing. I think thatthe robotics targeted with
things like warehouse automationand those types of things have
been a starting point in from ab to b standpoint. But, there
are robots that will navigateyour home. There's a robot
vacuum cleaner that would pickup a sock and had a have the
robotic arm, but they really,like, pick it up and throw it
(08:54):
over.
So, but, you know, so we'rewe're starting to see the
beginnings of, robot robots thatare that are useful.
Nick Brunker (09:02):
So what did you observe about how the tech is is
being designed? I mean, you yougive the example of, well, there
needs to be a physical arm topick up the socks so that, it
doesn't get sucked into thewheels. I mean, that may be one
example, but what else did youobserve about how they're being
designed to address theemotional side of the house?
Brian Yamada (09:20):
Yeah. I mean, in, there were a ton of robots that
were really designed forcompanionship. I don't know if
that's the right word. There's arobot dog that was, built for
people with dementia that wouldhelp help comfort them, help
kind of put them at ease, reduceanxiety. There were, robot
(09:41):
planters that would bring aplant to life that as you pet
and interact, like, pet andinteract with the plant or
tickle it, it would laugh.
It
Nick Brunker (09:49):
would No kidding.
Brian Yamada (09:50):
It could tell you when it needs water. So, you
know, that that ability to sortof give everything a personality
of sorts and help you feel moreconnected, less alone, was
definitely everywhere. Lots oflots of cute looking robots.
Even like Samsung has had Ballyfor a number of years. Bally, I
(10:13):
don't know not sure which waythey pronounce that.
But, they're like, they talkedabout that actually being
commercially available as westart to roll out this year.
Nick Brunker (10:21):
Let's talk practical applications, and you
also kind of, you know, dove ina little bit to accessibility,
and how AI is making smart homessmarter. You you off the top,
we're talking about how versusjust kind of existing as a
technology as things are are nowbecoming more embedded with
these things. What developmentsstood out to you this year?
Brian Yamada (10:41):
I think we're seeing the the the beginnings
of, some of some of thesecombinations of technologies. If
you look at something like,Samsung and their AI family hub,
it's, you know, designed to makethe refrigerator smarter and
make it the the central part ofyour home again. You used to,
like, use magnets and putpictures up or put calendars up
(11:04):
and that type of thing. Nowthere's a screen on the front of
that that refrigerator, and youcan still aggregate photos, you
could display the familycalendar, you could, have a
shared, grocery list and thingsyou want. And then it has
cameras on the inside as well.
So the the system has anunderstanding of what's there.
(11:24):
It can tell you when the milk'sgonna expire. You can say, hey,
what what should I make fordinner tonight? I think the kids
are in the mood for this type ofthing, and it can help suggest
different recipes and so on. SoI think that's, it's the
beginning of what will start tohappen on a larger scale, where
we have cameras, sensors, andbetter data integrated
(11:47):
throughout the home.
You know, recipe wise, like, thefridge, fridge has part of the
ingredients, but doesn't haveall the stuff in the pantry or
your spice cabinet Right. Orsome of the, you know, some of
the other parts of your kitchen.So, I think as we're you can
start to see where the thingsare headed. And I like to use
the phrase like prototypes ofthe future. Your kitchen should
(12:11):
have all of that knowledge.
You should be able to know andunderstand all the things that
are on your shelf when thingsare going bad. You know, it
should warn you that thosebananas, it's probably time to
throw it out before they meltand drip all over your shelf.
Right? Like, that type of thingis not not far away, and all the
hardware is there. Mhmm.
AI can power the software layer,I think, in a much more,
(12:33):
interactive way. But, right now,what I think we're seeing is the
people that are owning aparticular device or appliance,
like, that one thing is gettingsmarter better. What's coming
is, knitting together all thedatasets and providing sort of
that interface or applicationlayer that that allows you to
(12:54):
manage the full environment, notjust the one thing.
Nick Brunker (12:57):
I think back to something you said sparked a
thought about how as marketersand CX pros who often are
serving, brands and supportingbrands and, those that are
listening that are working for aparticular brand or company. I I
I liken what you said to how,things began to develop as
Apple's iPhone, came to market.It was a brilliant device, had
(13:20):
lots of great new technology.But the real challenge for
people in our industry was,okay. Well, how how can I apply
that technology and make mybrand, you know, relevant to my
customer base based on this newtechnology that's at my
fingertips?
And the smart fridge or SmartKitchen, frankly, you you were
mentioning reminds me of thingslike if I'm in the the grocery
(13:41):
industry or if I'm maybe aparticular food item, like,
those there's nothing would bestopping us if it's if the data
is there and the connection'sthere. Not only to remind you
that you're out of food or giveyou recipe ideas, but then say,
hey. You can actually order thatright now. Do you want me to
order it for you and then sendit to your door? Yes.
And through a Kroger or a Publixor whatever, you could pull that
(14:02):
off. I am fascinated to hear andsee, and this is not really a
question, more just anobservation, how those
technologies become, moreingrained with our everyday
brands and and how brands
Brian Yamada (14:15):
Agree.
Nick Brunker (14:15):
Start to show up. I think it's gonna be
fascinating.
Brian Yamada (14:18):
Yeah. And I totally agree with you. I feel
like the you know, there are,like, smart home alliances or
platforms like Matter that aredesigned to connect the let's
call it the connected devices,the IoT things that are in your
home and allow you to have oneinterface there. But, you know,
I I think companies are gonnahave to think about, what other
(14:39):
APIs, what other ecosystems theywanna connect into that are the
natural extensions from that. Soyour grocery example is great.
That's, you shouldn't youshouldn't have to take the list
and then retype it in anotherspot. Totally. Let's reduce the
friction. Let's make sure thatit's easy to think about, what
you might display. And the sameis the reverse is also true.
Like, if you wanna get a recipefrom, whatever, Campbell Soup or
(15:04):
this particular brand that'scoming in from your fridge,
like, the they they should couldopen could and should open up
those types of environments thesame way that when Apple opened
up the App Store, you had theability to choose, like, what
types of companies and brands doyou wanna put in that space?
Mhmm. As devices get smarter,screen starts to go everywhere,
I think companies are gonna needto start to make that type of
(15:25):
choice.
Nick Brunker (15:26):
Or you could reconnect neighborhoods by
having the smart fridges knowwhat's in your neighbor's fridge
and be able to say, hey. I'm outof eggs. Who has eggs? And, no.
I know this person has eggs.
Make sure you're giving me youreggs. I think it's it's
fascinating, man. It's gonna beawesome. You you touched on
something earlier that I thinkmay have more to it, and it was
a relation to the, the exampleof somebody being guided who who
(15:48):
may not have the the best siteor has a site impairment of some
kind to be able to guide them,you know, both haptically, but
audio through a crowded room tothe bathroom. You were talking
about that as an example, but itwere there additional examples
in that health and innovationaccessibility space that excited
you?
Brian Yamada (16:05):
Health, wellness, digital technologies. Like,
there's, there's there arealways amazing technologies that
are there. I have an eye issue,so I'm always, like, very
interested in seeing, like,where where some of vision tech
going and, how are you solvingvision problems for people that
have, like, macular degenerationor or have issues with, with
(16:25):
certain portions of theirvision? I did see some tech that
was a little bit related tothat. I tested it, but, didn't
it was one of those things thatdidn't seem quite there yet.
It was still a little bitdisorienting, I would say more
than fully solving the problem.The in the real time category,
there was a first, thermometer,is it was I think the phrase
(16:49):
that they were trying to invent,which was, essentially saliva
based real time hormone testing.So you could order a kit, put a
put this sort of strip in yourmouth for a couple of minutes
and then pull it through andthen take a picture of it with
your phone using theirapplication. And it would tell
you it would measure foreverybody, hormone related to
(17:11):
stress. And then, this initialwave was measuring particular
female hormones designed totrack things like fertility or
to track, hormones as as womenare going through menopause that
would help them understand theirpatterns, could make
recommendations around, like, onthe stress side, do you need to
eat or sleep less?
And on the hormone side, wouldgive you much better markers to
(17:35):
track in detail so that youcould manage, manage things
more, more closely with yourdocs.
Nick Brunker (17:41):
It's wild. Yep. That's absolutely crazy. There's
an interesting trend, and Ithink we saw it at scale this
year with local AI models andpersonal devices. Obviously,
within WPP and VML, we'reworking through, you know,
creating apps to to leverage ourAI tools internally.
And then, obviously, the, youknow, more, obvious examples
(18:02):
where Apple and Google areembedding AI into, the the
phones that we we buy. How mightthis shift start to or continue
to impact users' privacy andsustainability? Because that
seems to be another reallyinteresting, and I would assume,
rapidly emerging trend thatwe're gonna have to think about
as marketers.
Brian Yamada (18:21):
With a lot of the, I would describe as sort of this
early stage exploration thatthat we're doing today, we're
plugging into these largelanguage models and using a high
amount of compute to try to getto a dad joke or whatever
whatever the use case is.
Nick Brunker (18:38):
Get out of my head.
Brian Yamada (18:40):
Clearly, clearly, you'd see, like, the odd things
I'd sometimes use models for.Anyway, but and typically, those
those interactions are happeningthrough API calls and
connections. So the the computeand the models are really
running in different places.When you hear phrases like AI PC
or AI at the edge or, AI AIenabling chips that allow models
(19:05):
to run on your local machine.You're sort of reversing that.
Right? So instead of your datagoing elsewhere, you're able to
keep your data local and thenhave the models run-in that
environment. Mhmm. So and Ithink, you know, in those cases,
typically, will there'll bemodels that are designed for a
particular use case. So I doubtnot sure there'll be a model for
(19:27):
dad jokes.
Maybe there will. But there maybe models for locally running
the, stress recommendations.Right? So, in that in that
particular example or modelsthat are helping to solve for,
very particular problems or usecases that they'll be smaller,
better, more finely tuned forthat particular thing. So the
(19:49):
the amount of compute, theamount of energy that it takes
to run that, and the usercontrol and safety in terms of
your dataset will really startto improve.
So, know, I would use a phraselike small will be the new big.
Mhmm. Large language models helpto enable this sort of bright
summer of AI, but I think you'llstart to see, the knitting
(20:10):
together of many different typesof AI applications and agents,
that will work together to solvethe problem that the a person is
looking for in a small, a wayand specific a way as it can.
Nick Brunker (20:24):
So we think about kind of in that same vein and,
you know, ethics. I talked toKaren Boswell, an episode or 2
ago about kinda that thatgeneral theme. Do you see any,
like, examples of of how AI orany other technology for that
matter while you were out there?Was that kinda tech for good?
Brian Yamada (20:43):
Yeah. I mean, I think on the on the privacy
side, not not yet. I the our ourcontrols are still pretty, it's
like a bad a very basic on offswitch.
Nick Brunker (20:56):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (20:57):
I can I can ask a company, like, tell me all the
information you have on me, andI'd say, go erase it? But, I I
do think, especially inscenarios like the connected
home, smart home, categorieslike health, the concept of,
contextually understanding whatinteraction needs to happen and
(21:18):
what portions of your datasetyou wanna give permission to a
doctor or to whatever for thatparticular, that particular use
case. I I do think AI will makethat, will solve that problem
because it it is a highlycomplex one. But, we're not I
don't think we're quite thereyet. There there was amazing
(21:40):
tech for like, CS has done a lotto try to, have have bring that
forward as part of part of theshow.
A couple of the interestingthings. One of the interesting
things I remember seeing wassomething called Cumulus. So it
was a device that pulled waterfrom the air, essentially the
(22:01):
humidity in the air, and couldeven do it in, you know, desert
environments. So think aboutsolving for that problem of,
access to clean water in incertain parts of the globe. You
this device, it was actually alittle bit bigger.
It was caught up in customs whenI went through the first time,
but, it a very large device thatcould output anywhere from,
(22:24):
like, 30 to even close to 70 or80 liters per day. Wow. And
could be connected to solar tohelp power that. But, like, that
sort of air, water from air typetech, there's a different
company that was doing that on asmall scale for connected to a
coffee machine. So if you wantedto have wanted to lower the
(22:47):
amount of water that you'reyou're having to use for your
cup of coffee in the morning.
Like, that that type of techwill start to get integrated on
a smaller scale just into intoour into our homes.
Nick Brunker (22:58):
It's wild. Let's shift a bit, before we run out
of time on the developments and,implications for for business
and consumer relationships.Let's start with how do you see
some of these advances affectingthe ways brands can connect with
with customers?
Brian Yamada (23:14):
So we talked about the waves, you know, the
generative wave, the AI movinginto this experience era. And I
think that's the that is verymuch the now. I think all brands
have an opportunity to start tolook at, how and where can they
better AI enable the experiencesthat and the interactions that
(23:35):
happen when they get in theircar, when they come to your
website, when they're callingcustomer service. You can think
about all the different placeswhere, you can reduce friction
or increase ease and increasejoy. Mhmm.
Those, I think I think there'san opportunity for all companies
to begin to reexamine that. Andthen when if you've heard the
(24:00):
phrase, agentic AI, so thatthat's the next wave that's
that's coming. So if you thinkabout the experience layers, the
now, agentic will be the next,and you will have we'll have an
AI agent that will help you planyour vacation. So instead of
going to search, going to abunch of websites and making
(24:22):
your own list, you'll have anagent that's assisting you in
doing that discovery. In the insthe a your agent will say, do
you want me to show you theseoptions on a map?
Would you like to see photos ofthe different hotels or resorts?
Or, I've narrowed it down tothese Airbnbs or VRBOs. Would
you like to get a virtual tour?And it's doing the work for you.
(24:45):
The implication of that from abrand standpoint is, similar to,
like, the first era of the SEO,when SEO came about, like, we
had to figure out, like, how thesearch algorithms work and how
we presented brand informationin a way that made it accessible
to the search algorithms.
As agentic AI starts to come in,we will enter the machine to
(25:08):
machine era where, like, the oldHollywood phrase was, have your
people talk to my people. Yeah.In this agentic AI era, it will
be our brand agents talking toaudience agents, to figure out
what your that person's lookingfor, and then determine what
parts of the dataset you want toprovide to help solve that
(25:30):
problem. And I think we'll alsohave to think about the concept
of a brand API.
Nick Brunker (25:35):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (25:35):
Like, what data are you willing to extend? In
some cases, you'd what what whatimagery, some of the basic
stuff, you might you might sayyou'll extend for free and make
that available. There might be,like, hey, we have this amazing
three d experience if yourperson would like to see how how
well their car their kids willfit in the back seat of that
car. But you need to come to ourplace for that. Or you might
(25:59):
say, we're willing to to showyou pricing or willing to show
you our promotions, but we needyou to opt in.
We need to understand who thisperson is. I think those types
of interactions and scenarioswill, will start to refine. So,
like, brand agents, and brandAPIs will be the sort of future
thing to keep an eye on.
Nick Brunker (26:19):
So you you were pulling on a thread that I know
Heather Fiziac and I who's, reallike, at ground 0 of all things,
search intelligence. We kindawent down that road, in a couple
episodes ago if you wanna goback and listen to anybody who's
listening to to the show now,there's an interesting impact on
brands and content creation, notjust like how the content is
(26:41):
actually written and put ontothe site, the metatags, and all
the back end data. But there'sthere is this interesting
dynamic with what you werementioning around, you know,
whether it's Gen AI, you know,relevant content building. There
is something to be said aboutbrands creating better versus
more content, which has alwaysbeen like, well, what does
better mean? Do you see aseismic shift on the horizon
(27:05):
about how brands have toactually create the content, not
just experiences, but thecontent that underpin them in
order to not just be visible,but be useful in this new world
that's maybe getting away fromjust keywords and pages to more
experiential and to your point,agent agent led product and
brand brand, visibility.
Brian Yamada (27:26):
Yeah. I mean, so, arguably, we're just at the
beginning of this generativeera.
Nick Brunker (27:32):
Mhmm.
Brian Yamada (27:32):
Right? So image, generative images, now
commercially saved, videos, justbehind. But we're still we're
still kind of at the early pointof how much how much generated,
generative content is out therenow. But, I'll actually move
away from the search engines andlook at it more from the
audience side, which is like aspeople, we like right now, you
(27:57):
have access to everythingeverywhere all at once. You can
listen to any music from anycatalog, from any era, at the
touch of a keystroke or a punchto your phone, same in terms of
content and movies.
And so so if you think about thecontext of we're at the
(28:17):
beginning of this exponentialwave of how easy it is to
create, and we're but ouraudience is already overwhelmed.
The implication means, the thestuff that our audiences will
pay attention to is the stuffthat won't make them feel,
that's relevant to them, thatsolves a problem, that makes
them laugh or makes them cry oror makes them happy. Right? Like
(28:41):
the, the the rise of thisgenerative era will actually
increase the importance of, howrelevant we need to be, how
personalized in some respects,but it it can't just be personal
for the sake of of how we think,what we think might be personal
to that person. I think, it willgive us an ability to really
(29:01):
hone in to understand, like,well, what actually matters to
them, and how do we deliverthose things and and, in ways
that that impact and really drawthem closer.
Nick Brunker (29:12):
We're just now less than 12 months away from
you going back to CES to seewhat happens next year. As you
think back to this year's tripto Vegas, what developments do
you think are gonna have themost significant impact on our
industry maybe over the nextcouple or or three significant
impact on our industry maybeover the next couple or or 3
years?
Brian Yamada (29:29):
On our industry, specifically?
Nick Brunker (29:30):
Mhmm. Yes.
Brian Yamada (29:31):
Yep. Yeah, I I think I think there's a massive
opportunity to to, that thatrise in the experience, like, to
to really, AI enable, what howhow you walk through the store,
how you interact with a doctor,how how you can better
(29:51):
understand, what the heckthey're saying to you when
you're having a conversation. Orto for, like, you to be there
when, afterward, if you have anelderly parent that had a
meeting with a doctor and thenyou wanna have you wanna get a
distilled version of that later.Like, the all of that type of
(30:11):
those types of experiences arevery, very possible technically.
And they're but they're right atour fingertips from a brand
experience, from standpoint.
So, like, what what can wecreate today, to me, that that
will that will really be usefulor really be powerful in making
people more at ease or makingthem comfortable, improving
(30:34):
their happiness, improving howhow well they use your product.
Like, all of those things, Ithink we have an opportunity to
to, to rethink. So when we talkabout the experience layer, I
think, it isn't just like, doyou own the car experience? It
could it could be, like, how doyou extend from what how people
use your product and what theyuse it for? And what more could
(30:56):
you do?
That is we have superpowers atour fingertips today. So I think
that's the largest takeaway.
Nick Brunker (31:02):
I think that's fascinating when you when you
kinda let us down that road withmachine to machine. If if these
all can connect and talk to eachother, what other amazing things
could be at our fingertips if,you know, to mention again,
these are 2 unrelated things,but maybe not that unrelated.
Your car talking to your fridgeor your lights or anything. I
mean, that that technology isjust in its its early early
(31:23):
days, first couple of innings ofit, but you're right. There's
there's a lot to unpack there.
And, obviously, as a marketerourselves or both of us kind of
in the space, the questions thatI get a lot are, how do we stay
ahead of all this? How do wemaintain authentic human
connections, but also keepourselves up to speed? I mean,
you do a great job at at VML,like, helping spearhead and give
(31:44):
give our teams, the the toolsand the resources to learn. But,
you know, marketing is a fulltime job in itself, yet you're
also kinda learning newtechnology. What would advice
would you give to to us and ourindustry on on staying ahead of
all this?
Brian Yamada (31:57):
It is challenging. And because the market is moving
at such a high rate of speed, Ithink the important thing is
just to stay aware, staycurious, stay hungry. You know
what I mean? Like, keep youreyes open for the things that
spark. And periodically, like,get out of your bubble, get out
(32:19):
of the day to day of the thecontent that you're making and
the channels that you'redelivering in now to ask
yourself, like, well, what elsecould could we do?
And just start to block a littlebit of of time, a little bit of
dollars to explore, like, whatmight be. And just like at CES,
like, some of that stuff, it maybe the right idea wrong time.
(32:42):
Maybe the tech isn't quitethere. But, I think going
through, like, staying curiousand trying to trying to continue
to explore at least the what'sgetting the headlines, what's
what are some of the majorthings that are that are taking
place in emerging technologies,and beginning to explore a
little bit, like, how does itwork with my brand? Or how does
(33:02):
it work?
How how are are the people, theaudiences that I'm trying to
reach changing in terms of theirmedia behavior, in terms of the
devices they're they'reinteracting with? And what does
that mean in terms ofopportunities for my brand to
show up in new ways, unexpectedways. Right? So, like, brands
that find breakthroughexperiences or interactions in
(33:24):
new channels, typically get bigheadlines. Sometimes you win
awards and hardware.
Like, there there's value to befound, I think, in just doing a
little bit of exploration tofind, things that have never
been done before.
Nick Brunker (33:38):
So the obligatory bonus question at the end, and
it may be a tough one to answerbecause you, I'm sure, absorbed
a lot. Your head must have beenwanting to explode by the end of
the week. If you had to pick onething from CES this year that
marketers should be payingattention to right now, what
would it be and why?
Brian Yamada (33:55):
You know what? I'll stay in that tech for good
category. K. I think, I thinkthere's a a massive opportunity
for, when you because when yousay the word accessibility, I
think for a lot of marketers,they're aiming for the minimum
legal requirements. Mhmm.
How do I make sure that we havemetadata to so readers are
(34:15):
there. And I think they're thetech is there today to start to
do things that are breakthroughthat give your brand again,
like, outsized credit for beinghuman and just making letting
everybody buy your stuff in easyways or use your product in easy
ways. Right? So I think there's,there's outsized value, to be
(34:39):
found there, and it's just theright thing to do. So why why
shouldn't we all be exploringhow to how to make things
easier, better for everybody?
And typically, because you'redoing some of that
experimentation at the edge tosolve for sometimes the hardest
use cases, what you'll find isyou'll you might be able to
improve or find discoveries thatare actually valuable for
(35:01):
everybody. So I think, doingsome exploration on
accessibility and emerging techenabled accessibility is I
think, a lot of our clientswould find some really rich
territories and new solutions.
Nick Brunker (35:12):
Brian, I learn so much from you every time we have
a chance to sit down. I know ourlisteners do too. Thank you so
much for carving out a fewminutes to do this, and we'll
talk soon.
Brian Yamada (35:20):
Absolutely. Thank you, Nick.
Nick Brunker (35:21):
And thanks to you all for listening to Human
Centered as well. To learn moreabout VML CX practice and our
approach to the work, check usout online atvml.com. We'd also
love to hear your feedback onthe show. Give us a rating and
offer up your thoughts whereveryou listen to your podcasts,
including Apple, Spotify,Stitcher, Amazon, and more. Have
a topic idea or wanna drop us aline, you can connect with me on
(35:41):
x@nickbrunker, or shoot us anemail.
The address ishumancentered@vml.com. Thanks
again for listening. We'll seeyou next time.
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