August 4, 2025 • 39 mins
What truly drives us to take action for our health? It's not willpower - it's science.
In our first episode of Season 2 of Human Resilience, tune in for a candid conversation with our hosts - Bob Gold and Shelley Schoenfeld - who reveal the profound connection between the brain and body. The brain emerges as healthcare's most overlooked vital organ with our mental state controlling physical outcomes. Treating symptoms while ignoring the brain's central role leaves patients cycling through ineffective interventions.
Through powerful stories like a grandfather motivated by wanting to play with his grandchildren rather than abstract clinical goals, we see how personalization transforms outcomes. In one remarkable pain management program, patients reported 80% reduction in perceived pain not through medication changes but through outlook transformation.
Listen and Learn:
- Successful motivation requires focusing on what patients personally want to achieve, not just clinical goals
- The "Four I's" of engagement: Involvement, Influence, Investment and Identity
- How community support reduces isolation and builds confidence, especially for stigmatized conditions
- Why Brain health is the foundation of physical health: the brain controls what organs do and don't do
Whether you directly influence healthcare plans, are personally managing a health condition/supporting someone who is, or simply interested in the science of behavior change, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating lasting positive change through understanding your brain's extraordinary influence on your health journey.
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Strategist, GoMo Health
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive alerts of new episodes, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I saw a lot of health care issues happening to my
family.
Unfortunately, my wife'syounger sister died of cancer,
and so I said, ok, I think thisscience could really help people
in their well-being, and Inoticed that a lot of healthcare
doesn't necessarily understandthe brain-body connection and
(00:29):
how to motivate and activatepeople in their healthcare.
So I devoted the science tohealthcare.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way that we're ableto live, work or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelley Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hi, I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist at
GOMO Health.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth care, what that means,
why it matters and how it canmake a difference for people who
need it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Health Care is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I aregoing deep on human motivation.
We'll be diving into whatreally drives human behavior and
(01:23):
daily living and then, morespecifically, how to get people
moving when it comes to theirhealth.
We're going to talk aboutthings like what drives people
to do what they do, take anaction where they're most
challenged in taking control oftheir own health, and a lot of
other interesting topics thatwe're going to get to today.
Then we'll wrap up with a fewpowerful takeaways that you can
(01:45):
use for your own self-motivation, whether you're in healthcare
or running a business, or atwork, or in school or at play,
or just feeling stuck andlooking for a fresh perspective.
So let's get started, bob.
Let's open up with what firstgot you interested in human
motivation and how people'sminds work in connection with
(02:06):
the actions that they take.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It was at the time I was working in the financial
services industry early in mycareer and I was asked to solve
a problem for the SecuritiesIndustry Association that young
people in their 20s were puttingall their 401k money in a money
(02:33):
market fund and it was peopleto believe that they should be
doing other things with theirmoney than just putting it into
a money market fund.
(02:54):
That was the initial foray intothe science of motivation,
activation and resiliency that Istarted.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And then, how did you shift that over into the
healthcare space?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So in working with some of the top scientists
neurologists, neuroscientists,psychologists, clinicians in the
world, I applied the science ofmotivation and developing a
force and resiliency.
First, in financial services Iworked, I did a little bit for
(03:35):
the NASA and the astronauts,some marine pilots, loyalty
systems, and then, like a lot ofus, you know, I saw a lot of
health care issues happening tomy family.
Unfortunately, my wife'syounger sister died of cancer,
(04:06):
and so I said, ok, I think thisto motivate and activate people
in their health care.
So I devoted the science tohealth care.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Got it, got it All right.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
So we all have blockers orthings that stop us from moving
forward, motivating us to makechanges that we know are going
to be better for us, but we'rehesitant sometimes, and
sometimes that relates to lifeoverall, and a lot of times it
comes to managing our own health.
(04:37):
Like you said, and if youreally think about it,
motivation impacts every aspectof our lives and how we operate.
We want people to move in acertain direction or do what we
want them to do.
We want our kids to bemotivated to do well in school.
We want our partners to go tothe restaurant we want to go to,
not the one they want to go to.
We want to instigate change andinfluence the way people are
(05:01):
thinking right.
So, when it comes to healthcare, we know that there's different
blockers that people need toovercome in dealing with their
own health management, and wereally want to focus today a
little bit on them.
But let's take it with anexample of daily living.
I just want to get your wheelsturning, bob, with this sample.
(05:23):
We know that a lot of blockerswhen it comes to health.
People feel very overwhelmed bywhat's in front of them, whether
it's the volume of informationor directives, whether it's the
complexity of the information.
And every time I think aboutthis and what we do every day
working together is I thinkabout my daughter and she had a
(05:44):
science test in school and shecame home with a review sheet
that was packed with informationand it was all about molecules
and mixtures and homogeneous andheterogeneous and compounds all
this stuff that we have troubleprobably remembering in our
daily living and she keptpracticing and kept practicing
using this very detailed reviewsheet.
(06:05):
She had about a 40% recall onher practice quizzes and she
said you know what?
I can't get it, I can't get it,it's too much, I can't remember
it.
So I said you know what?
Let's make flashcards, let'shave one individual term at a
time that you're learning andtrying to retain.
So we made the flashcard.
She went from a 40% on herpractice to 100% on the test, so
(06:29):
that we know, is a really goodexample of simplifying and
tunneling and taking one thoughtat a time.
How do you think, what are someideas that we can apply that to
healthcare?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, so it's the same exact thing.
The way the uh food example,getting your partner to go, even
though you're a vegetarian I'mnot, I consider myself a
flexitarian we do go to placesthat have fish and salads
together.
So we figured out sort of howto do that together.
But but I would say that youknow, in motivation, a lot of
(07:07):
what you're talking about inyour daughter's example is
outlook.
So the most important thing isoutlook, outlook and outlook.
Like in real estate, it'slocation, location, location.
So your daughter's outlook was Idon't think I could get through
this.
It's cognitive overload.
I don't know how I'm going todo it right.
So how do you get someone tobelieve self-trust that I will
(07:35):
not put myself in harm's way byhow I'm going to go about
learning, and self-credibilitythat I could further my cause.
So how do you get your daughterto do that?
So in your particular case, wecall it reduction technology,
which is learning by simplifyingright.
(07:56):
Give her one thing to do thatshe feels she could do within
her lifestyle, within her brainpower.
She does it.
You reward them right and thenthey go on to the next step and
they feel they can accomplish itright.
So it's sort of the techniquesthat are used in micro learning
(08:17):
and doing Like so GOMO, we cameup with the term MILD, which
stands for micro learning anddoing.
Not only do you learn somethingthat's in small stackable bytes
, but we give you activities.
Then we have something calledreflection technology that asks
you how you do reflex and getsyou to think about it, what you
(08:38):
need to do better.
So I think, in summary, it'sabout getting your daughter or
anyone to change their outlookon how they can increase
self-trust and credibility toget through that period of
learning and do good on the test.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
In your case, and you know that's a great segue over
to a lot of our focus on brainhealth and the importance of
brain health and how your mindis guiding what your body is
doing and how the two can worktogether.
So let's talk about that howbrain health is tied to physical
(09:19):
health and how important isthat outlook on not just your
motivation but the success ofyour initiatives.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, so you know you asked me, I'll answer that.
Let me give you a little story,because you asked me about how
I got into it.
So just to give a simpleexample, a couple of simple ones
and then I'll answer yourquestion.
So 50 percent not 15 50 percentof all gi issues are caused by
stress, right, which iscontrolled by the brain, your
(09:50):
stress level, not your body.
And what happens is the stressbuilds up and you swallow and it
goes down into your gut andcauses bacteria.
And then you go see a gi doc,right, and health care who may
give you meds, but they're notsolving your brain health, which
is the cause.
(10:11):
They're treating the symptom.
And then I always say, too a lotof times in type 2 diabetes,
it's not your stomach thatdecided to eat, it's not your
legs that decided not to run,it's your brain and your central
nervous system controls whatyour organs do and don't do and
(10:31):
in fact your organs report backup to the brain.
So brain health is not justtypically what people view in
the industry as mental health,anxiety and stress and those
things.
It's also brain performance andfitness.
People go to the gym for theirbody.
What's the gym for the brain.
(10:53):
How do I improve my brainperformance?
Because that ultimately controlsyour body and and, by the way,
the two just to prove the point,the two most important organs
relating to lifespan andmortality are the brain and the
(11:13):
heart.
Now, if you ask people what arethe two organs in your body
that have the most to do withmortality, almost anyone Shelley
right would not say the brain.
They would say the heart or theliver or the kidney, whatever
they're going to say, but no onewould say, oh, the brain.
(11:34):
But that's the answer,interestingly.
So there needs to be more focuson the brain, regardless
whether you have cancer,diabetes, anxiety, multiple
issues, family problems, allthat.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, it makes me think.
I remember my dad always usedto talk about this book that was
big in the 50s, I think thePower of Positive Thinking.
Remember that one, NormanVincent Peale.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And how the brain and your outlook and the way that
you think influences your everyday.
And that's, you know, a greatrecommendation there.
All right, so we talked aboutoutlook as a blocker.
We talked about complicatedinformation too much at one time
and how tunneling orsimplifying one thought at a
time can help with that.
(12:22):
What about reward orreinforcement along the course
of the way?
You know we started talkingabout kids, family.
You know, people, people in anyenvironment.
If they have the positivereinforcement, they tend to move
further along the complicatedjourney.
How can we apply some of thatinto healthcare?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Let me give you two stories.
It's a great question.
So we did a program, gomoHealth, with a federally
qualified health center.
So those are, for those of youwho don't know, those are
special health centers,hospitals, clinics that treat
the underserved, underinsured,not insured folks, and there's
(13:06):
thousands of them throughout theUnited States.
So we did a program with one ofthem in Nebraska and they
wanted to see if they could helptheir patients with losing
weight and reducing their BMIand their A1C.
So it was a program for folkswho were diagnosed with diabetes
(13:27):
and I'll just give you onestory.
So we got them to change theplan of care, change the
engagement science, so what weasked?
I'll give you one story with agrandpa.
We asked people what their goalwas, if they could do anything,
and you know what was stopped.
(13:48):
So one guy says that he was inhis uh, like 70.
He says I want to be able toplay with my grandchildren more
so.
Prior to that, the health caregoal was let's lose 20 pounds,
let's lower your a1c.
We shifted it, we captured.
You want to play with yourgrand children?
(14:10):
Okay, charlie, here's howyou're gonna be able to play
with your grandchildren.
The first step to play morewith your great is this?
The guy followed it Like sobecause we shifted the
motivation.
We hit on his personalmotivation to follow and to be
(14:34):
resilient Right.
It's amazing what you can do.
The other story is we did thisprogram in Rhode Island with
Rhode Island and MiriamHospitals, with Albert School of
Medicine and Brown University,and it was about folks who
(14:55):
started in pain and then becameaddicted to opioids or drugs or
things like that because of thepain, and then they were showing
up in the emergency departmentthree, four times a week.
They were lonely, they didn'tknow what to do and again we
(15:27):
shifted it to what would youlike to get there?
So we took their goal and wetracked their confidence level
and the effect of pain on theirbody.
In six months, sons, we reducedtheir perceived pain by 80%.
(15:51):
Many of them had the same pain,but their outlook now was they
didn't have as much pain, right.
So we shifted it to do that andwe have a certain science we can
talk about on how we do thatright.
How we do that right's my storyaround.
You ask what's the one thing?
It has to be focused on whatthe person believes they want to
(16:13):
do.
They have to believe it fitstheir lifestyle and they have to
believe they can accomplish thetasks.
If you have a science andsystem of engagement that does
that, you get results throughthe roof all right, what it's,
the keeping your eye on theprize, philosophy right.
You got to know what the benefitis at the end right and
(16:37):
everyone has their clinicallymay have the same diagnosis, but
everyone's their own person andhas their own goals and
motivation.
And in fact, like, if I justtake women as a general category
, um, let's say we do programsin cancer care, so a woman has
breast cancer.
(16:57):
A lot of the motivation on howwe go about it is it could be a
40-year-old woman, she has twoyoung children and it's like the
motivation isn't necessarilyabout her.
It's like, hey, betty, let's dothese things, you can still
take care of the family, you canhelp your children.
Like there's a lot of women putthemselves last, their children
(17:20):
and family first.
So if it's just all about her,we may not be hitting on the
motivation that she needs to getthrough a tough time because
she doesn't.
She's now seeing that'sdivorced from how she helps the.
Oh, it may help me, but I don'tsee how that's helping my
family or my children.
(17:41):
So you have to correlate thosethings right.
And when you correlate thosethings, here's the four eyes
that happen.
One is they feel more involvedin the plan of care, whatever
that is in the thing.
So once they start feeling moreinvolved and you do that by
(18:02):
them having influence, you askquestions and you adjust.
So they need to feel like weall.
If we don't feel we haveinfluence in anything all of us
in life, we're less interestedand we less follow it.
Then that gives them a feelingof being invested.
Okay, now we got you Like okay,I'm invested in this because
it's not somebody else's plan,it's mine too, you follow, it's
(18:27):
my goal, it's my motivationthey're telling me about, it's
my lifestyle, right.
And then, lastly, the ultimateis identity, or identify.
So if someone starts toidentify the plan of care with
their own identity and that it'sone in the same, we can get
(18:49):
anyone to do anything because itis their plan.
Now, it's their plan, right.
And so that's sort of the I'sinvolvement, influence,
investment, identity.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Very funny.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You like that.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, I do like that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Let's go back to mom.
You were talking about how mommight put herself last, because
she's always worried abouteverybody else, right?
So mom, or whomever the healthcare consumer is, often needs
that partner, somebody to coachthem through the process,
because they're usually thecoach they need a coach, and in
health care, as of late, we havethis whole concept of patient
(19:33):
navigators or a patientconcierge, and at GOMO Health we
have that very unique idea, butour concierge works in a very
personalized way for each personwho needs that coach.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So walk us through that a little bit, yeah so you
know there's process to motivate, activate, develop and foster
resiliency.
Right, Because you can motivatesomeone in the moment, but do
(20:06):
they stay motivated?
Right, do they stay motivated?
So our process is we firstlearn about people, as opposed
to telling them what to do.
We then shift the plan of careautomatically within our science
, our machine learning, ourdigital engagement, to be
(20:27):
consistent with their input.
We then give them little thingsto do that they start to form a
routine, like you said withyour daughter learn this, then
learn that, then learn that,then we continue that and that
could kind of form a schedule.
The brain is interesting.
The brain a lot of times needsa schedule.
(20:49):
Some of us need that more thanothers.
But getting people into aschedule like you, shelly, you
absolutely need a schedule.
Some of us need that more thanothers.
But getting people into aschedule like you, shelly, you
absolutely need a schedule, butyou're extreme, so, but anyway.
So getting someone into aschedule is important and
because now they feel like, okay, I need to do this, I got it,
then what happens is that beginsto change their outlook, like,
(21:12):
okay, I could do this, this, I'min the schedule, it's working.
Like I like it, it's working.
I just got to do these things,like you know, and that outlook
changes what they call inneuroscience neuroplasticity.
The brain loves to change.
There's about 90 plus billionneurons and over 100 trillion
(21:35):
synapses connections in thebrain more than the Internet.
So now your brain's starting tochange and evolve and now
that's how you form a habit andstay resilient and have a better
outlook.
So there's a process to do thathave a better outlook.
(21:59):
So there's a process to do that.
The big key is it's not onevisit with a clinician, no
matter how good they are, or anurse.
It's not always going to an appor portal.
The person always has toinitiate.
It's like having a good friend.
If I have to go to the goodfriend every time I have
something to say and they nevercome back to me and they never
ask me and they never get to mein my time of need, I'm not
(22:20):
going to go to the friend.
Gomo has a science of throughour messaging protocols, our
engagement, machine learning.
We go to you.
Time of day, day of weekmatters.
We ask you questions.
If you say you can't sleep, weask you what time.
Oh, I go to sleep at 1030.
Okay, nine, we're going tostart sending you stuff.
So that's the key.
It's like a good friend, almostlike a good friend and health
(22:45):
coach digitally.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Thank you for that.
So you just talked about thereward and motivation along the
course of the way for eachindividual.
On their journey.
They're nurtured with theconcierge who's guiding them
through based on what they need.
I love the idea of surprise anddelight, the unexpected.
Can you talk about that?
(23:11):
You're very unexpected.
You're very surprising all thetime.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
But what about-.
Yeah, that's what my familysays.
I was born on the planet Wu.
I only visit Earth occasionally, so-.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, I'm glad you're here today to talk to us about
surprise and delight.
Fill us in on surprise anddelight, Bob.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
So two things I have to say.
We have something in ourbehavioral Rx science called
wonder and wander technology andit's sort of giving people some
things to do or think aboutthat are fun, interesting,
exciting, that may, on thesurface, have nothing to do with
(23:52):
their issue, that may, on thesurface, have nothing to do with
their issue, but it just helpstheir brain.
It takes them out of theirday-to-day life, right, like I
know.
We have one story of a gal.
She had borderline personalitydisorder and her first thing to
do is she isolates, she becomeslonely.
So we don't give everyone thesame thing.
(24:14):
So we asked her who, who do youtalk to?
She said in our digital, hermom, why don't you call your mom
?
Tonight?
She actually did it.
It worked.
It distracted her, right, likeyou know.
So the other aspect I think ofwhat we're talking about is
getting people to feelpsychologically safe.
(24:36):
So if I take certain folkslet's take first responders,
police and firefighters you knowthey may not feel
psychologically, mentally safeall the time.
They experience death, they seeand adverse events and people
(25:00):
mangled in car accidents andpeople burnt in a fire.
So they need intermittent help,you know.
So gomo actually has a programfor first responder resiliency
that deals with the beginningshift, the middle shift, the end
shift.
But we have something called thelighter side, which is surprise
(25:25):
and delight.
So we have part of the protocolis fun things that police are
doing around the world.
Oh, they dressed up as a clown,they went into a school.
Look, they had this whole thing.
Look what good police are doinglike something uplifting that
they could do right.
And in fact in that program wedid in rhode island we actually
(25:48):
called it fortune cookies.
So they randomly got a fortunecookie which was surprise and
delight.
So sometimes it was here's $5for Dunkin' Donuts or here's a
code to go watch a movie atAmazon, or it was just something
fun.
Here's a puzzle.
You know it was something fun.
(26:10):
So we sometimes deliversurprise and delight and we call
it fortune cookies.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I like it.
You mentioned something earlierI want to go back to.
You talked about the timingwhen it comes to our concierge
and how we need that guide, andthe guide talks to you when you
want it, how you want it.
It's so funny.
I don't think people give thatidea enough credibility, that
(26:39):
importance of talking tosomebody and the way they want
to be spoken to and how theywant to be spoken to, and it's
funny.
I've got a story for you thistime.
I coordinate in my spare timethat I have, which is minimal,
but I coordinate a lot of eventsin my community and I work with
a guy who works for thefacility where I coordinate
these events and he speaks noEnglish whatsoever, 100% Spanish
(27:04):
speaking.
And up until the time that Igot involved, the team ahead of
me would communicate with him invery unique ways.
They would speak English louderto him, thinking that maybe he
would understand that way.
They would use gestures, props,all kinds of things.
So I started working with thisguy, who's an absolute gem, and
(27:27):
I thought to myself why are wespeaking to him in English?
He only speaks Spanish.
So I took all of the detailsabout the event, of which there
are many and I translated theminto Spanish and I gave them to
him ahead of time so he had timeto digest the information.
I hung them up in the kitchenso he could refer back to them.
(27:49):
And somebody said to me at thevenue that is such a wonderful
idea that you translated thedirections for him into Spanish.
I said, well, how is he goingto understand and partner and
achieve this awesome event thatwe all collectively want to
achieve?
That's our goal.
How are we motivating him ifwe're speaking to him in a
(28:12):
language that he completelydoesn't understand?
But that was a novel idea tothis team, so let's translate
that.
Over to healthcare.
How can we speak to people in away that they understand at the
time that they need it, so thatthey're better motivated to
take that action towards bettercare?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Well, first of all, the one thing you did to
motivate positive change right,as opposed to negative change is
the biggest thing.
Is someone needs to believethat the other person or
organization believes in them,that's it.
If the person doesn't feel, youbelieve me.
(28:54):
So I think a lot of what washappening To this guy, who was a
gem he couldn't possibly feelanyone Really believed him
because of what they were doingRight, what you did, reflecting
On what would make sense for himand personalizing it for him.
(29:21):
He now has a different feelingfor you and belief system that
you believe in him.
You took the time to dosomething that worked for him.
Think about the power of nowhim going the extra yard for you
and him being motivated and himcoming back and this and that.
(29:45):
So you know that's what it'sall about His outlook about you.
Your score on trust andcredibility is much higher than
the others.
You dealt with them right, so,and that's what you want.
So now you can, you continuethat effort and, um, you can get
the guy to help you more andmore and he's happier, god,
(30:08):
finally, someone believes in me.
Like these people don't believein me, they're talking louder.
Like you know, I don'tunderstand.
Regardless of what, the decibellevel is right, you know.
So, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Um, let's.
So that's a little bit.
That's a good story or a goodexample of how meeting people
where they are and speaking tothem in the way that they
understand is helpful.
Um, you know, I remember we dida program a few years back and
it was for moms who were dealingwith OUD and SUD issues opioid
(30:48):
use disorder and substance usedisorder issues and we had an
event where a mom at that eventspoke about how our program
helped her feel like a realperson again, how she wasn't
alone, how she had people totalk to, that she wasn't dealing
with this journey by herself,and that really got us further
(31:10):
thinking.
We were already thinking andunderstanding the importance of
community and a network andhaving people to talk to and
relate to.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow we build that sense of
community for people so theydon't feel like they're battling
their illness, their condition,their diagnosis alone, but that
they have a network to rely on?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, no, it's fascinating.
In fact I remember her quoteduring her talk.
The stories that were sent tomy phone showed me I'm not alone
and I had to relearn tocommunicate.
So she had so much stigma aboutwhat she did that it was tough
(31:55):
for her to face her family, herworkers.
She had to stop.
You know her friends andsomebody like that cognitively
you talk about neuroplasticitytheir brain is ruminating.
So now they're ruminating andhow do we get them out of that
(32:18):
and get them to feel so?
What we did in those cases a lotof the communication was these
short videos about other momswho had the issue.
We weave in what you can dowith those things.
We showed moms who got out ofit to her, you know.
We gave her tips on how toengage family and friends.
(32:39):
We asked her to practicecertain things within the
protocol.
You know practice is key.
She had to relearn how tocommunicate.
Practice just like if you'relearning the piano or a sport
for the first time if there's nopractice you're not going to do
it.
So anyway, that's how we do it.
We to go back.
(33:00):
We help people practice betterhealth, in this case, better
communications in their daily,in their day-to-day life.
That reduces, in her case, thestigma.
And then it's cathartic ifshe's able to get it out and
talk about it.
Cathartic is an open expressionof your feeling and if we could
(33:23):
build someone's confidencelevel to articulate that, wow,
they feel so much better thatthey quote got it off their
chest right.
But it's not easy to articulatehow you're feeling with the
stigma, how to communicate.
So yeah, so, um, like in anotherexample, sticking with sud, we
(33:46):
we managed the drug courttreatment program for Montana
and we have thousands of peoplewho were discharged, prisoners,
people picked up by police andthey agreed to go to this drug
court treatment program fornonviolent substance use.
So we have one guy and hissubstance use was alcohol and
(34:08):
never forget what he said.
He said you know, what helearned through GOMO was
self-awareness.
And then he goes and criticalawareness of my feelings and
then what to do about it.
Like my God, god is thatpowerful.
Like we helped him have selfand critical awareness of who he
(34:34):
is and what he can do, and nowhe's back to full-time work, he
feels good, he's productive.
You know, I mean those storiesare so heartwarming of some of
the things we do right, butthere's a science to that.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
And we've talked about so many different things
that motivate people to takeaction.
We've talked about buildingconfidence.
We've talked about the sense ofcommunity.
We've talked about simplifyingthings so people feel empowered
and they understand, and thatthey're spoken to in a way that
motivates them to take action.
(35:13):
What would you say is andyou've just spoken about mental
health and behavioral health.
We know that's tied to so manyconditions what would you say
would be the most important, themost powerful driver, or one of
them I know that there are manythat's going to not only
(35:33):
motivate somebody to take theseactions, but create resiliency
so that they stick with it.
They stick with the plan.
What are some of?
One most important thing ispracticing brain health right,
and it's not just meditation orlistening to music.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Those things are good .
We're practicing communication.
You know there's a bunch ofthings involved, but the brain
is really not only controls thecentral nervous system, it's
really the controller of thebody, right?
So you know, that to me is themost important thing, and I
think, on a tactical, day-to-daybasis, it's really looking at
(36:26):
your goals and developing what Isaid routine schedules and
forming habits around the thingsyou need to do those things.
So you get into, you know, anautomated system.
There's three aspects ofscientifically motivation One's
(36:46):
biological, one's cognitive,which is outlook, and one's
emotional, which is yourbehaviors and your belief system
every day.
So if I just take a look atbiological motivation, my body
knows that I'm thirsty, or mybody tells me I'm hungry, so I'm
(37:08):
motivated, I eat, right.
So that's how you want to getto what your goal is.
Like almost automatic.
Like when you learn to walk thefirst time.
You don't know how to walk upsteps when you're a little baby,
and then you fall and you getup and then you walk up the
steps.
So you want to get on autopilot.
That's the goal.
Like you want to figure outroutines and schedules that can
get you on autopilot.
So it's auto.
(37:28):
Oh, it's six o'clock, I go forrun.
Boom, you know it's healthy,I'm good.
No, that could wait tilltomorrow.
That extra thing, right you?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
know that's sort of the idea.
Okay, so the autopilot.
You think getting yourself intothat sort of routine and
repetitive actions where you seeresults through motivation is
the way to get yourself to aresilient state where you're
rocking and rolling and doing itall on your own, on autopilot
yeah, yeah, it's not one single,it's not one event.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
You have to.
Resiliency, motivation is aboutdoing things over and over
again and staying in there.
And you know, if I just give aexample of why the brain's the
most important thing there towork in, that is, if you look at
olympic athletes and you lookat professional athletes, all
(38:22):
their bodies, their skills areunbelievable, right, they're all
.
What separates them, whatseparated michael jordan from
the pack?
Or why did mark spitz win allthose medals?
It's how they work their brain,their outlook, their brain
(38:45):
performance, their motivation,their schedule, their practice,
their, you know, because alltheir bodies are unbelievable,
physically fit and great, butwhat separates them is brain.
Yeah, so it's all about what'sup here.
You know that's the most vitalorgan you got the brain.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Well, that's perfect, and we're going to talk more
about cognitive behavioralengagement, our science, how it
works, how it's applied, infuture episodes, but today I'll
wrap up this one.
Thank you, bob, on behalf ofBob Gold and I thank you all for
listening to this episode aboutincreasing motivation and
healthcare and beyond.
If you enjoyed what you heard,please subscribe to our podcast,
(39:27):
submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of healthcare, visit
us at gomohealthcom and be sureto tune in on Thursday to catch
our freshest content.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thank you, everybody.
I saw a lot of health care issues happening to my
family.
Unfortunately, my wife'syounger sister died of cancer,
and so I said, ok, I think thisscience could really help people
in their well-being, and Inoticed that a lot of healthcare
doesn't necessarily understandthe brain-body connection and
(00:29):
how to motivate and activatepeople in their healthcare.
So I devoted the science tohealthcare.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way that we're ableto live, work or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelley Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hi, I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist at
GOMO Health.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth care, what that means,
why it matters and how it canmake a difference for people who
need it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Health Care is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I aregoing deep on human motivation.
We'll be diving into whatreally drives human behavior and
(01:23):
daily living and then, morespecifically, how to get people
moving when it comes to theirhealth.
We're going to talk aboutthings like what drives people
to do what they do, take anaction where they're most
challenged in taking control oftheir own health, and a lot of
other interesting topics thatwe're going to get to today.
Then we'll wrap up with a fewpowerful takeaways that you can
(01:45):
use for your own self-motivation, whether you're in healthcare
or running a business, or atwork, or in school or at play,
or just feeling stuck andlooking for a fresh perspective.
So let's get started, bob.
Let's open up with what firstgot you interested in human
motivation and how people'sminds work in connection with
(02:06):
the actions that they take.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It was at the time I was working in the financial
services industry early in mycareer and I was asked to solve
a problem for the SecuritiesIndustry Association that young
people in their 20s were puttingall their 401k money in a money
(02:33):
market fund and it was peopleto believe that they should be
doing other things with theirmoney than just putting it into
a money market fund.
(02:54):
That was the initial foray intothe science of motivation,
activation and resiliency that Istarted.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And then, how did you shift that over into the
healthcare space?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So in working with some of the top scientists
neurologists, neuroscientists,psychologists, clinicians in the
world, I applied the science ofmotivation and developing a
force and resiliency.
First, in financial services Iworked, I did a little bit for
(03:35):
the NASA and the astronauts,some marine pilots, loyalty
systems, and then, like a lot ofus, you know, I saw a lot of
health care issues happening tomy family.
Unfortunately, my wife'syounger sister died of cancer,
(04:06):
and so I said, ok, I think thisto motivate and activate people
in their health care.
So I devoted the science tohealth care.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Got it, got it All right.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
So we all have blockers orthings that stop us from moving
forward, motivating us to makechanges that we know are going
to be better for us, but we'rehesitant sometimes, and
sometimes that relates to lifeoverall, and a lot of times it
comes to managing our own health.
(04:37):
Like you said, and if youreally think about it,
motivation impacts every aspectof our lives and how we operate.
We want people to move in acertain direction or do what we
want them to do.
We want our kids to bemotivated to do well in school.
We want our partners to go tothe restaurant we want to go to,
not the one they want to go to.
We want to instigate change andinfluence the way people are
(05:01):
thinking right.
So, when it comes to healthcare, we know that there's different
blockers that people need toovercome in dealing with their
own health management, and wereally want to focus today a
little bit on them.
But let's take it with anexample of daily living.
I just want to get your wheelsturning, bob, with this sample.
(05:23):
We know that a lot of blockerswhen it comes to health.
People feel very overwhelmed bywhat's in front of them, whether
it's the volume of informationor directives, whether it's the
complexity of the information.
And every time I think aboutthis and what we do every day
working together is I thinkabout my daughter and she had a
(05:44):
science test in school and shecame home with a review sheet
that was packed with informationand it was all about molecules
and mixtures and homogeneous andheterogeneous and compounds all
this stuff that we have troubleprobably remembering in our
daily living and she keptpracticing and kept practicing
using this very detailed reviewsheet.
(06:05):
She had about a 40% recall onher practice quizzes and she
said you know what?
I can't get it, I can't get it,it's too much, I can't remember
it.
So I said you know what?
Let's make flashcards, let'shave one individual term at a
time that you're learning andtrying to retain.
So we made the flashcard.
She went from a 40% on herpractice to 100% on the test, so
(06:29):
that we know, is a really goodexample of simplifying and
tunneling and taking one thoughtat a time.
How do you think, what are someideas that we can apply that to
healthcare?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, so it's the same exact thing.
The way the uh food example,getting your partner to go, even
though you're a vegetarian I'mnot, I consider myself a
flexitarian we do go to placesthat have fish and salads
together.
So we figured out sort of howto do that together.
But but I would say that youknow, in motivation, a lot of
(07:07):
what you're talking about inyour daughter's example is
outlook.
So the most important thing isoutlook, outlook and outlook.
Like in real estate, it'slocation, location, location.
So your daughter's outlook was Idon't think I could get through
this.
It's cognitive overload.
I don't know how I'm going todo it right.
So how do you get someone tobelieve self-trust that I will
(07:35):
not put myself in harm's way byhow I'm going to go about
learning, and self-credibilitythat I could further my cause.
So how do you get your daughterto do that?
So in your particular case, wecall it reduction technology,
which is learning by simplifyingright.
(07:56):
Give her one thing to do thatshe feels she could do within
her lifestyle, within her brainpower.
She does it.
You reward them right and thenthey go on to the next step and
they feel they can accomplish itright.
So it's sort of the techniquesthat are used in micro learning
(08:17):
and doing Like so GOMO, we cameup with the term MILD, which
stands for micro learning anddoing.
Not only do you learn somethingthat's in small stackable bytes
, but we give you activities.
Then we have something calledreflection technology that asks
you how you do reflex and getsyou to think about it, what you
(08:38):
need to do better.
So I think, in summary, it'sabout getting your daughter or
anyone to change their outlookon how they can increase
self-trust and credibility toget through that period of
learning and do good on the test.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
In your case, and you know that's a great segue over
to a lot of our focus on brainhealth and the importance of
brain health and how your mindis guiding what your body is
doing and how the two can worktogether.
So let's talk about that howbrain health is tied to physical
(09:19):
health and how important isthat outlook on not just your
motivation but the success ofyour initiatives.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, so you know you asked me, I'll answer that.
Let me give you a little story,because you asked me about how
I got into it.
So just to give a simpleexample, a couple of simple ones
and then I'll answer yourquestion.
So 50 percent not 15 50 percentof all gi issues are caused by
stress, right, which iscontrolled by the brain, your
(09:50):
stress level, not your body.
And what happens is the stressbuilds up and you swallow and it
goes down into your gut andcauses bacteria.
And then you go see a gi doc,right, and health care who may
give you meds, but they're notsolving your brain health, which
is the cause.
(10:11):
They're treating the symptom.
And then I always say, too a lotof times in type 2 diabetes,
it's not your stomach thatdecided to eat, it's not your
legs that decided not to run,it's your brain and your central
nervous system controls whatyour organs do and don't do and
(10:31):
in fact your organs report backup to the brain.
So brain health is not justtypically what people view in
the industry as mental health,anxiety and stress and those
things.
It's also brain performance andfitness.
People go to the gym for theirbody.
What's the gym for the brain.
(10:53):
How do I improve my brainperformance?
Because that ultimately controlsyour body and and, by the way,
the two just to prove the point,the two most important organs
relating to lifespan andmortality are the brain and the
(11:13):
heart.
Now, if you ask people what arethe two organs in your body
that have the most to do withmortality, almost anyone Shelley
right would not say the brain.
They would say the heart or theliver or the kidney, whatever
they're going to say, but no onewould say, oh, the brain.
(11:34):
But that's the answer,interestingly.
So there needs to be more focuson the brain, regardless
whether you have cancer,diabetes, anxiety, multiple
issues, family problems, allthat.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, it makes me think.
I remember my dad always usedto talk about this book that was
big in the 50s, I think thePower of Positive Thinking.
Remember that one, NormanVincent Peale.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And how the brain and your outlook and the way that
you think influences your everyday.
And that's, you know, a greatrecommendation there.
All right, so we talked aboutoutlook as a blocker.
We talked about complicatedinformation too much at one time
and how tunneling orsimplifying one thought at a
time can help with that.
(12:22):
What about reward orreinforcement along the course
of the way?
You know we started talkingabout kids, family.
You know, people, people in anyenvironment.
If they have the positivereinforcement, they tend to move
further along the complicatedjourney.
How can we apply some of thatinto healthcare?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Let me give you two stories.
It's a great question.
So we did a program, gomoHealth, with a federally
qualified health center.
So those are, for those of youwho don't know, those are
special health centers,hospitals, clinics that treat
the underserved, underinsured,not insured folks, and there's
(13:06):
thousands of them throughout theUnited States.
So we did a program with one ofthem in Nebraska and they
wanted to see if they could helptheir patients with losing
weight and reducing their BMIand their A1C.
So it was a program for folkswho were diagnosed with diabetes
(13:27):
and I'll just give you onestory.
So we got them to change theplan of care, change the
engagement science, so what weasked?
I'll give you one story with agrandpa.
We asked people what their goalwas, if they could do anything,
and you know what was stopped.
(13:48):
So one guy says that he was inhis uh, like 70.
He says I want to be able toplay with my grandchildren more
so.
Prior to that, the health caregoal was let's lose 20 pounds,
let's lower your a1c.
We shifted it, we captured.
You want to play with yourgrand children?
(14:10):
Okay, charlie, here's howyou're gonna be able to play
with your grandchildren.
The first step to play morewith your great is this?
The guy followed it Like sobecause we shifted the
motivation.
We hit on his personalmotivation to follow and to be
(14:34):
resilient Right.
It's amazing what you can do.
The other story is we did thisprogram in Rhode Island with
Rhode Island and MiriamHospitals, with Albert School of
Medicine and Brown University,and it was about folks who
(14:55):
started in pain and then becameaddicted to opioids or drugs or
things like that because of thepain, and then they were showing
up in the emergency departmentthree, four times a week.
They were lonely, they didn'tknow what to do and again we
(15:27):
shifted it to what would youlike to get there?
So we took their goal and wetracked their confidence level
and the effect of pain on theirbody.
In six months, sons, we reducedtheir perceived pain by 80%.
(15:51):
Many of them had the same pain,but their outlook now was they
didn't have as much pain, right.
So we shifted it to do that andwe have a certain science we can
talk about on how we do thatright.
How we do that right's my storyaround.
You ask what's the one thing?
It has to be focused on whatthe person believes they want to
(16:13):
do.
They have to believe it fitstheir lifestyle and they have to
believe they can accomplish thetasks.
If you have a science andsystem of engagement that does
that, you get results throughthe roof all right, what it's,
the keeping your eye on theprize, philosophy right.
You got to know what the benefitis at the end right and
(16:37):
everyone has their clinicallymay have the same diagnosis, but
everyone's their own person andhas their own goals and
motivation.
And in fact, like, if I justtake women as a general category
, um, let's say we do programsin cancer care, so a woman has
breast cancer.
(16:57):
A lot of the motivation on howwe go about it is it could be a
40-year-old woman, she has twoyoung children and it's like the
motivation isn't necessarilyabout her.
It's like, hey, betty, let's dothese things, you can still
take care of the family, you canhelp your children.
Like there's a lot of women putthemselves last, their children
(17:20):
and family first.
So if it's just all about her,we may not be hitting on the
motivation that she needs to getthrough a tough time because
she doesn't.
She's now seeing that'sdivorced from how she helps the.
Oh, it may help me, but I don'tsee how that's helping my
family or my children.
(17:41):
So you have to correlate thosethings right.
And when you correlate thosethings, here's the four eyes
that happen.
One is they feel more involvedin the plan of care, whatever
that is in the thing.
So once they start feeling moreinvolved and you do that by
(18:02):
them having influence, you askquestions and you adjust.
So they need to feel like weall.
If we don't feel we haveinfluence in anything all of us
in life, we're less interestedand we less follow it.
Then that gives them a feelingof being invested.
Okay, now we got you Like okay,I'm invested in this because
it's not somebody else's plan,it's mine too, you follow, it's
(18:27):
my goal, it's my motivationthey're telling me about, it's
my lifestyle, right.
And then, lastly, the ultimateis identity, or identify.
So if someone starts toidentify the plan of care with
their own identity and that it'sone in the same, we can get
(18:49):
anyone to do anything because itis their plan.
Now, it's their plan, right.
And so that's sort of the I'sinvolvement, influence,
investment, identity.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Very funny.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You like that.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, I do like that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Let's go back to mom.
You were talking about how mommight put herself last, because
she's always worried abouteverybody else, right?
So mom, or whomever the healthcare consumer is, often needs
that partner, somebody to coachthem through the process,
because they're usually thecoach they need a coach, and in
health care, as of late, we havethis whole concept of patient
(19:33):
navigators or a patientconcierge, and at GOMO Health we
have that very unique idea, butour concierge works in a very
personalized way for each personwho needs that coach.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So walk us through that a little bit, yeah so you
know there's process to motivate, activate, develop and foster
resiliency.
Right, Because you can motivatesomeone in the moment, but do
(20:06):
they stay motivated?
Right, do they stay motivated?
So our process is we firstlearn about people, as opposed
to telling them what to do.
We then shift the plan of careautomatically within our science
, our machine learning, ourdigital engagement, to be
(20:27):
consistent with their input.
We then give them little thingsto do that they start to form a
routine, like you said withyour daughter learn this, then
learn that, then learn that,then we continue that and that
could kind of form a schedule.
The brain is interesting.
The brain a lot of times needsa schedule.
(20:49):
Some of us need that more thanothers.
But getting people into aschedule like you, shelly, you
absolutely need a schedule.
Some of us need that more thanothers.
But getting people into aschedule like you, shelly, you
absolutely need a schedule, butyou're extreme, so, but anyway.
So getting someone into aschedule is important and
because now they feel like, okay, I need to do this, I got it,
then what happens is that beginsto change their outlook, like,
(21:12):
okay, I could do this, this, I'min the schedule, it's working.
Like I like it, it's working.
I just got to do these things,like you know, and that outlook
changes what they call inneuroscience neuroplasticity.
The brain loves to change.
There's about 90 plus billionneurons and over 100 trillion
(21:35):
synapses connections in thebrain more than the Internet.
So now your brain's starting tochange and evolve and now
that's how you form a habit andstay resilient and have a better
outlook.
So there's a process to do thathave a better outlook.
(21:59):
So there's a process to do that.
The big key is it's not onevisit with a clinician, no
matter how good they are, or anurse.
It's not always going to an appor portal.
The person always has toinitiate.
It's like having a good friend.
If I have to go to the goodfriend every time I have
something to say and they nevercome back to me and they never
ask me and they never get to mein my time of need, I'm not
(22:20):
going to go to the friend.
Gomo has a science of throughour messaging protocols, our
engagement, machine learning.
We go to you.
Time of day, day of weekmatters.
We ask you questions.
If you say you can't sleep, weask you what time.
Oh, I go to sleep at 1030.
Okay, nine, we're going tostart sending you stuff.
So that's the key.
It's like a good friend, almostlike a good friend and health
(22:45):
coach digitally.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Thank you for that.
So you just talked about thereward and motivation along the
course of the way for eachindividual.
On their journey.
They're nurtured with theconcierge who's guiding them
through based on what they need.
I love the idea of surprise anddelight, the unexpected.
Can you talk about that?
(23:11):
You're very unexpected.
You're very surprising all thetime.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
But what about-.
Yeah, that's what my familysays.
I was born on the planet Wu.
I only visit Earth occasionally, so-.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, I'm glad you're here today to talk to us about
surprise and delight.
Fill us in on surprise anddelight, Bob.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
So two things I have to say.
We have something in ourbehavioral Rx science called
wonder and wander technology andit's sort of giving people some
things to do or think aboutthat are fun, interesting,
exciting, that may, on thesurface, have nothing to do with
(23:52):
their issue, that may, on thesurface, have nothing to do with
their issue, but it just helpstheir brain.
It takes them out of theirday-to-day life, right, like I
know.
We have one story of a gal.
She had borderline personalitydisorder and her first thing to
do is she isolates, she becomeslonely.
So we don't give everyone thesame thing.
(24:14):
So we asked her who, who do youtalk to?
She said in our digital, hermom, why don't you call your mom
?
Tonight?
She actually did it.
It worked.
It distracted her, right, likeyou know.
So the other aspect I think ofwhat we're talking about is
getting people to feelpsychologically safe.
(24:36):
So if I take certain folkslet's take first responders,
police and firefighters you knowthey may not feel
psychologically, mentally safeall the time.
They experience death, they seeand adverse events and people
(25:00):
mangled in car accidents andpeople burnt in a fire.
So they need intermittent help,you know.
So gomo actually has a programfor first responder resiliency
that deals with the beginningshift, the middle shift, the end
shift.
But we have something called thelighter side, which is surprise
(25:25):
and delight.
So we have part of the protocolis fun things that police are
doing around the world.
Oh, they dressed up as a clown,they went into a school.
Look, they had this whole thing.
Look what good police are doinglike something uplifting that
they could do right.
And in fact in that program wedid in rhode island we actually
(25:48):
called it fortune cookies.
So they randomly got a fortunecookie which was surprise and
delight.
So sometimes it was here's $5for Dunkin' Donuts or here's a
code to go watch a movie atAmazon, or it was just something
fun.
Here's a puzzle.
You know it was something fun.
(26:10):
So we sometimes deliversurprise and delight and we call
it fortune cookies.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I like it.
You mentioned something earlierI want to go back to.
You talked about the timingwhen it comes to our concierge
and how we need that guide, andthe guide talks to you when you
want it, how you want it.
It's so funny.
I don't think people give thatidea enough credibility, that
(26:39):
importance of talking tosomebody and the way they want
to be spoken to and how theywant to be spoken to, and it's
funny.
I've got a story for you thistime.
I coordinate in my spare timethat I have, which is minimal,
but I coordinate a lot of eventsin my community and I work with
a guy who works for thefacility where I coordinate
these events and he speaks noEnglish whatsoever, 100% Spanish
(27:04):
speaking.
And up until the time that Igot involved, the team ahead of
me would communicate with him invery unique ways.
They would speak English louderto him, thinking that maybe he
would understand that way.
They would use gestures, props,all kinds of things.
So I started working with thisguy, who's an absolute gem, and
(27:27):
I thought to myself why are wespeaking to him in English?
He only speaks Spanish.
So I took all of the detailsabout the event, of which there
are many and I translated theminto Spanish and I gave them to
him ahead of time so he had timeto digest the information.
I hung them up in the kitchenso he could refer back to them.
(27:49):
And somebody said to me at thevenue that is such a wonderful
idea that you translated thedirections for him into Spanish.
I said, well, how is he goingto understand and partner and
achieve this awesome event thatwe all collectively want to
achieve?
That's our goal.
How are we motivating him ifwe're speaking to him in a
(28:12):
language that he completelydoesn't understand?
But that was a novel idea tothis team, so let's translate
that.
Over to healthcare.
How can we speak to people in away that they understand at the
time that they need it, so thatthey're better motivated to
take that action towards bettercare?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Well, first of all, the one thing you did to
motivate positive change right,as opposed to negative change is
the biggest thing.
Is someone needs to believethat the other person or
organization believes in them,that's it.
If the person doesn't feel, youbelieve me.
(28:54):
So I think a lot of what washappening To this guy, who was a
gem he couldn't possibly feelanyone Really believed him
because of what they were doingRight, what you did, reflecting
On what would make sense for himand personalizing it for him.
(29:21):
He now has a different feelingfor you and belief system that
you believe in him.
You took the time to dosomething that worked for him.
Think about the power of nowhim going the extra yard for you
and him being motivated and himcoming back and this and that.
(29:45):
So you know that's what it'sall about His outlook about you.
Your score on trust andcredibility is much higher than
the others.
You dealt with them right, so,and that's what you want.
So now you can, you continuethat effort and, um, you can get
the guy to help you more andmore and he's happier, god,
(30:08):
finally, someone believes in me.
Like these people don't believein me, they're talking louder.
Like you know, I don'tunderstand.
Regardless of what, the decibellevel is right, you know.
So, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Um, let's.
So that's a little bit.
That's a good story or a goodexample of how meeting people
where they are and speaking tothem in the way that they
understand is helpful.
Um, you know, I remember we dida program a few years back and
it was for moms who were dealingwith OUD and SUD issues opioid
(30:48):
use disorder and substance usedisorder issues and we had an
event where a mom at that eventspoke about how our program
helped her feel like a realperson again, how she wasn't
alone, how she had people totalk to, that she wasn't dealing
with this journey by herself,and that really got us further
(31:10):
thinking.
We were already thinking andunderstanding the importance of
community and a network andhaving people to talk to and
relate to.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow we build that sense of
community for people so theydon't feel like they're battling
their illness, their condition,their diagnosis alone, but that
they have a network to rely on?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, no, it's fascinating.
In fact I remember her quoteduring her talk.
The stories that were sent tomy phone showed me I'm not alone
and I had to relearn tocommunicate.
So she had so much stigma aboutwhat she did that it was tough
(31:55):
for her to face her family, herworkers.
She had to stop.
You know her friends andsomebody like that cognitively
you talk about neuroplasticitytheir brain is ruminating.
So now they're ruminating andhow do we get them out of that
(32:18):
and get them to feel so?
What we did in those cases a lotof the communication was these
short videos about other momswho had the issue.
We weave in what you can dowith those things.
We showed moms who got out ofit to her, you know.
We gave her tips on how toengage family and friends.
(32:39):
We asked her to practicecertain things within the
protocol.
You know practice is key.
She had to relearn how tocommunicate.
Practice just like if you'relearning the piano or a sport
for the first time if there's nopractice you're not going to do
it.
So anyway, that's how we do it.
We to go back.
(33:00):
We help people practice betterhealth, in this case, better
communications in their daily,in their day-to-day life.
That reduces, in her case, thestigma.
And then it's cathartic ifshe's able to get it out and
talk about it.
Cathartic is an open expressionof your feeling and if we could
(33:23):
build someone's confidencelevel to articulate that, wow,
they feel so much better thatthey quote got it off their
chest right.
But it's not easy to articulatehow you're feeling with the
stigma, how to communicate.
So yeah, so, um, like in anotherexample, sticking with sud, we
(33:46):
we managed the drug courttreatment program for Montana
and we have thousands of peoplewho were discharged, prisoners,
people picked up by police andthey agreed to go to this drug
court treatment program fornonviolent substance use.
So we have one guy and hissubstance use was alcohol and
(34:08):
never forget what he said.
He said you know, what helearned through GOMO was
self-awareness.
And then he goes and criticalawareness of my feelings and
then what to do about it.
Like my God, god is thatpowerful.
Like we helped him have selfand critical awareness of who he
(34:34):
is and what he can do, and nowhe's back to full-time work, he
feels good, he's productive.
You know, I mean those storiesare so heartwarming of some of
the things we do right, butthere's a science to that.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
And we've talked about so many different things
that motivate people to takeaction.
We've talked about buildingconfidence.
We've talked about the sense ofcommunity.
We've talked about simplifyingthings so people feel empowered
and they understand, and thatthey're spoken to in a way that
motivates them to take action.
(35:13):
What would you say is andyou've just spoken about mental
health and behavioral health.
We know that's tied to so manyconditions what would you say
would be the most important, themost powerful driver, or one of
them I know that there are manythat's going to not only
(35:33):
motivate somebody to take theseactions, but create resiliency
so that they stick with it.
They stick with the plan.
What are some of?
One most important thing ispracticing brain health right,
and it's not just meditation orlistening to music.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Those things are good .
We're practicing communication.
You know there's a bunch ofthings involved, but the brain
is really not only controls thecentral nervous system, it's
really the controller of thebody, right?
So you know, that to me is themost important thing, and I
think, on a tactical, day-to-daybasis, it's really looking at
(36:26):
your goals and developing what Isaid routine schedules and
forming habits around the thingsyou need to do those things.
So you get into, you know, anautomated system.
There's three aspects ofscientifically motivation One's
(36:46):
biological, one's cognitive,which is outlook, and one's
emotional, which is yourbehaviors and your belief system
every day.
So if I just take a look atbiological motivation, my body
knows that I'm thirsty, or mybody tells me I'm hungry, so I'm
(37:08):
motivated, I eat, right.
So that's how you want to getto what your goal is.
Like almost automatic.
Like when you learn to walk thefirst time.
You don't know how to walk upsteps when you're a little baby,
and then you fall and you getup and then you walk up the
steps.
So you want to get on autopilot.
That's the goal.
Like you want to figure outroutines and schedules that can
get you on autopilot.
So it's auto.
(37:28):
Oh, it's six o'clock, I go forrun.
Boom, you know it's healthy,I'm good.
No, that could wait tilltomorrow.
That extra thing, right you?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
know that's sort of the idea.
Okay, so the autopilot.
You think getting yourself intothat sort of routine and
repetitive actions where you seeresults through motivation is
the way to get yourself to aresilient state where you're
rocking and rolling and doing itall on your own, on autopilot
yeah, yeah, it's not one single,it's not one event.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
You have to.
Resiliency, motivation is aboutdoing things over and over
again and staying in there.
And you know, if I just give aexample of why the brain's the
most important thing there towork in, that is, if you look at
olympic athletes and you lookat professional athletes, all
(38:22):
their bodies, their skills areunbelievable, right, they're all
.
What separates them, whatseparated michael jordan from
the pack?
Or why did mark spitz win allthose medals?
It's how they work their brain,their outlook, their brain
(38:45):
performance, their motivation,their schedule, their practice,
their, you know, because alltheir bodies are unbelievable,
physically fit and great, butwhat separates them is brain.
Yeah, so it's all about what'sup here.
You know that's the most vitalorgan you got the brain.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Well, that's perfect, and we're going to talk more
about cognitive behavioralengagement, our science, how it
works, how it's applied, infuture episodes, but today I'll
wrap up this one.
Thank you, bob, on behalf ofBob Gold and I thank you all for
listening to this episode aboutincreasing motivation and
healthcare and beyond.
If you enjoyed what you heard,please subscribe to our podcast,
(39:27):
submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of healthcare, visit
us at gomohealthcom and be sureto tune in on Thursday to catch
our freshest content.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thank you, everybody.
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