September 3, 2025 • 26 mins
Healthcare costs are spiraling upward at alarming rates, rising between 5-18% annually regardless of employer interventions. This financial pressure is forcing companies to rethink their approach to employee health benefits while navigating an increasingly complex landscape of workforce challenges.
Joining hosts Bob Gold and Shelley Schoenfeld is Dave Drapp, workplace wellness expert who reveals the primary drivers behind these escalating costs. Dave and Bob discuss how the traditional fragmented approach to employee benefits is failing both employers and workers. While companies typically offer an array of solutions - from EAPs to wellness programs to condition-specific interventions - employees often remain unaware of these resources until crisis hits. This knowledge gap leads to poor utilization, inappropriate care choices, and missed opportunities for early intervention.
This episode unpacks these workplace wellness trends and provide actionable strategies for navigating the complex healthcare landscape.
Listen and Learn:
- The significant impact of wellness programs when employees ACTUALLY engage with them
- How uncertainty is driving workplace fear and impacting focus and performance, amplified by remote work and AI-driven job concerns
- Why brain health is as important as physical health
- Why having a wellness program isn't enough; employees need a "quarterback” to guide them to the right resources at the right time
Guest
- Dave Drap, Workplace Wellness Expert
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Strategist, GoMo Health
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive alerts of new episodes, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
What I would suggest from an employer perspective is
psychological safety is notgoing away.
The gap has actually increasedover the last several years.
You know more and more folksare working from home or remote,
so you do lose that inneroffice connectivity periodically
, right?
(00:27):
So there is a lot of stress outthere.
Am I replaceable today?
Is it going to be tomorrow,right?
So on and so forth.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work or care for ourselves
and others.
Hi, I'm Shelley Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yambal Gold Founder and Chief Behavioral
Technologist.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Healthcare is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I arejoined by workplace wellness
expert Dave Drapp to explorewhat's truly driving rising
(01:19):
healthcare costs, how theseincreases are impacting
employers and the most effectivestrategies to address them.
Listen as we unpack keyworkplace trends and how you can
prepare for them.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And Dave I've known for several years.
Great guy, Dave, tell us alittle bit about yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, first of all, bob and Shelley and team thanks
for having me on the podcasttoday.
Bob and Shelley and team thanksfor having me on the podcast
today.
It's a great honor.
I've been in the corporatespace for about 30 years.
I've had a lot of experience inthe behavioral health space,
corporate sales payers, healthproviders, health systems and a
(02:02):
whole boatload of work withbrokers, third-party
administrators and consultantsin the employer space.
I'm married, I have fourchildren and I love to do
triathlons.
How's that for personal?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And you're just in Switzerland, right?
I love the mountain pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I was.
I was just in Switzerland and Ihad the opportunity to hike up
an 11 an 11,500 foot mountainand we took some beautiful
pictures from the top.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
All right, hopefully this, this podcast, won't be
nearly as rigorous as that day,but we'll try to keep you on
your toes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So we all know we're looking at a pretty crazy
marketplace right now, veryactive.
We have a lot going onpolitically.
We have a lot going onpolitically.
We have a lot influencing oureconomy and specifically in the
health care space.
So, dave, of all the differentthings that are going on right
now inflation and chroniccondition management and the
cost of drugs, our agingpopulation, different things
(03:03):
like that Can you pick maybe twoof the biggest key drivers that
are driving healthcare costsright now today?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, I think I would like to kind of put them in
order of impact from a sheerdollars perspective, from an
employer perspective.
So the first one is the agingpopulation.
So we're all working more andmore into our later and later
golden years, if you will.
(03:33):
So, with that being said, beingan aging population does create
more need for chronic conditionmanagement.
It's kind of a ripple effect,if you will.
So it's great to have seasonedemployees on many levels, but
then you have to start dealingwith some of the chronic
conditions.
(03:53):
Maybe a newly diagnoseddiabetic, for example, can
create more cost and pressure ona particular health plan.
So I would say, agingpopulations, chronic conditions,
healthcare, workforce shortagesare a big deal in a couple of
different spaces.
First and foremost in themental health space, right?
(04:15):
So we're five years out of aglobal pandemic.
There's still a lot of peoplestruggling and suffering and the
average wait time for yourtherapy appointment is still
about six to eight weeks today,so that shortage will continue.
And then you have the drugprices and inflation, which kind
of go hand in hand from aninflationary perspective, right.
(04:37):
So all of the above that you'velisted are very important, but
I would list them in thatparticular category, from one to
five or six.
They all have an impact, butthe significant impacts are the
chronic conditions and then theaging populations.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I want to add to that as an example the condition
that has the most dramatic risein the last five years from a
workman's comp is stress.
Like stress claims forworkman's comp anxiety,
(05:20):
depression have increaseddramatically.
You know, know, from anemployer perspective there is a
correlation between mentalhealth and what dave mentioned
in terms of substance usetreatment and recovery right,
because that has dramaticallygone up.
So I would say, uh, brainhealth overall is a key, key
(05:44):
factor in what Dave said.
It also affects how you could,how an employer could, do
preventative healthcaresolutions to maybe delay someone
becoming a type two diabetic orcreate a world of psychological
(06:07):
safety.
So I think focusing on thebrain, which typically
healthcare cut off from the restof the body, I think is key for
employers and that's a newemerging area of science.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Dave and Bob, from everything that we're talking
about, all these differentchallenges that we're facing,
that employers are facing today,would you say that there's a
different impact depending onsize of companies, certainly
from a cost perspective, butalso just from a workforce, a
cultural perspective.
The impact overall, large andsmall.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, there's a couple of follow-ups there,
shelley.
So, regardless of company size,every company is impacted
pretty much the same.
Even if you're doing a half amillion dollars in sales or 300
million in sales, the impact isrelatively similar.
Because the second biggestexpense that you have as an
(07:08):
employer is healthcare and thehealthcare costs that are
associated with it, right?
So a couple of follow-ups toBob's comment.
Each state now has metrics inplace from a risk factor
perspective.
There are three categories ofrisk.
There's low, medium and highrisk.
In the low risk area, you'regenerally spending less than
(07:30):
$1,000 a year on stuff forsomebody that's relatively
healthy, right?
In the medium category, mediumrisk factors means that you have
two to three risk factors thatare borderline becoming an issue
or a concern.
In that particular category,it's about $2,500.
And when you get into the thirdcategory, high risk areas,
(07:53):
chronic conditions it's north of$4,000.
So when you start doing thatmath, there's massive amounts of
opportunity for an employer tofocus on high, medium and making
sure that folks stay in thoselow-risk categories from a
budgetary impact.
So it's about 28% of overallcost per employer group.
(08:18):
And then you have yourpersonnel cost and you want to
stay below that 50 55% mark ormetric whenever you can.
And the last thing I'll say isevery health plan on the planet
generally goes up between 5 and18% year over year, regardless
of what you do as an employer.
(08:38):
So you have to take all ofthose things into consideration.
And, last but not least, that'sgenerally the only area that
there's no budget or forecastit's your healthcare costs.
You're just trying to staywithin parameters and guidelines
from a numbers perspective.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, that's fascinating and you know it's
interesting.
Dave, talk a little bit aboutwhat GOMO has seen in the
industry.
Introducing our digital caremanagement, digital therapeutics
to employers is really the lackof utilization of EAPs.
(09:21):
When employers are trying tomake things available to your
point date to keep you in thelower category mental, physical
issues.
Why is it that current EAPsaren't utilized?
They're not really providing anROI and what are some of the
(09:42):
strategies that we're doing tohelp that?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So there's a couple of things here to unpack.
First off, everybody's beenthrough open enrollment, you
know, listening to this podcast.
So you have, generally speaking, 20 to 30 days to make all of
your elective decisions and yourinsurance decisions.
Do I want to be on a highdeductible plan?
Do I want to be in amarketplace plan?
(10:08):
All of those differentdecisions go into play and then
you make your decisions and thenfrom that point you kind of go
dormant on your health planuntil there's an emergency or
there's an issue, or son ordaughter is sick, right.
So then you reboot all of thatinformation and you really don't
know what you don't know.
(10:29):
Employers in totality do offergood benefits, kind of across
the board, right.
Employees think their benefitsstink, but that's because they
don't know a ton about what theofferings actually are, right.
So there's this massive likeclosing the loop process that
(10:51):
GOMO has been very good at, inessence promoting and marketing
the benefits that are inexistence, and then GOMO can
help provide where they'relacking and offering additional
benefits.
Our marketing teams do afantastic job in doing monthly
calendar events.
So our main goal here, from abehavior RX standpoint, is we
(11:15):
want the employee, when they'rein crisis, to be thinking
clearly All right, my baby has avery, very severe diaper rash,
should I just run her to the ER?
Or, oh, I remember I haveaccess to my telemedicine vendor
, so I make a phone call it's a$40 cost to the employer
themselves and then you saveseveral hundred dollars from an
(11:39):
ER perspective and you're backto work the next day.
You didn't have to spend thenight in the ER, for example.
And then one other comment Iwant to make here if employers
can close that loop, in that gap, there is a massive, massive
loyalty opportunity for theemployee and the employer.
Right, the employer can sharethe benefits offerings and if
(12:02):
the employee uses them andconsumes them the proper way,
they tend to stay longer.
When we used to implementwellness programs and they were
effective the folks thatparticipated in the wellness
benefit offering stayed ninemonths longer than someone that
didn't participate in a wellnessoffering.
(12:24):
That's a huge cost savings froma training, you know, turnover
perspective, kind of across theboard.
So, bob, that's a really greatpoint where the goal here should
be to close the loop, shoutfrom the mountaintop as an
employer and then behavior Rxand train the employee when
they're in a situation of crisis, right to be consuming the
(12:46):
health plan in the proper way.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Bob, can you, can you ?
That's great, dave.
Thank you, bob.
Taking that let's talk aboutthat from and the impact overall
, like what's happening in theemployer's mind, in the
employee's mind, and how is thatconnecting from a behavioral
and cognitive perspective tomake them more loyal, to impact
(13:13):
retention, to help empower themin their healthcare, what
happens kind of behind thescenes, cognitively, to deepen
that connection?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
yeah, and I'll tell you what that is.
But one added thing in additionto retention, some employers
use strategies about recruitment, right, like we have one
hospital that was actuallyshortage of nurses, that was
using GOMO and what it, how ithelped the nurses to recruit
(13:46):
nurses, as example, as employees.
So you know, interestingly, inmy world, many cognitive
behavioral scientists say themother of all fears is
uncertainty.
The mother of all fears isuncertainty and if you think
about it, the rapid change inour world has outpaced people's
(14:06):
ability to get their head aroundit.
So lately, between COVID and,as you mentioned, shelley, some
of the changes in Californiaearthquakes, weather changes,
the wars that are going onPeople don't know what to do at
(14:30):
work, home and play.
It's a hard, tough environment.
So I think what the employersneed to focus on is
understanding that it's not justoh, we'll pay for a Fitbit and
count steps, right, I mean,those are fine, but you're not
(14:51):
getting at, a lot of times, theroot cause of issues.
A lot of times the reason whypeople are gaining weight is
having physical issues like GIor other things is because of
their anxiety, stress, notknowing.
It causes some people to eatless, some people to eat more
(15:14):
and it also detracts.
It's interesting working withthe Center for Brain Health and
some global economists on how todefine the effect of brain
performance on recruitmentretention, gross margin and
innovation at a company.
(15:34):
If people are not able to focustoday's point, whether it's
because of their children andthey don't know what to do, or
themselves of their children andthey don't know what to do, or
themselves, that certainlydoesn't help a company with
process improvement, innovation,those types of things.
And, just to make onefascinating comment, in the last
(15:55):
two weeks been approached bytwo large employers.
They have 50 000 or more peopleeach of them around ai.
So here is what they said ishappening.
They said look, we have a lotof anxiety stress.
Already.
(16:16):
A lot of the executives youknow believe ai is going to
solve all these problems for us,right?
And they're passing this downto the folks to get it done.
And the folks are a littleconfused about exactly how to do
that.
Is it replacing me?
(16:36):
Is it like, how do I do that?
We don't where this is thrustat us, where this is thrust at
us, we don't really truly getall that, what ai could do, how
to do it.
So what?
They come to us and said bob,we realized we made a mistake.
It's actually causing moreanxiety and stress.
(16:58):
So we have to alter how weengage employees to take
advantage of AI, because we'realmost decreasing self-efficacy
in using AI and getting thingsdone, because now they're
totally confused about thefuture right of themselves,
their job, what it means.
(17:19):
So I think my summary is let'sreally work with employers to
help them with their employeeswith brain performance and
fitness.
Like I always say, you go tothe gym for your body.
What's the gym for your brain?
Which controls your body?
(17:41):
Right, which controls your body?
And that's what I think GOMO isdoing for a lot of employers
and that's why we got that call.
But I just want to point outthat you know, innovation like
AI how a company actuallymanifests itself and gets it
done has an effect on employeehealth and wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Thanks Bob Dave.
Any thoughts on that froma?
Thanks Bob Dave.
Any thoughts on?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
that from a cultural impact perspective or things
that employers might be able todo tactically to better
socialize the importance ofhealth and wellness to their
employees.
Of thoughts here.
First and foremost, the datacollection today is
significantly better than it wasfive years ago 10 years ago,
right.
So we have really greatsnapshots and opportunities in
time overall to where we can seecost impacts from an
(18:38):
absenteeism perspective, forexample right.
So what I would suggest from anemployer perspective is
psychological safety is notgoing away.
The gap has actually increasedover the last several years.
You know more and more folks areworking from home or remote, so
you do lose that inner officeconnectivity periodically, right
(19:03):
.
So there is a lot of stress outthere.
Am I replaceable today?
Is it going to be tomorrow?
Right, so on and so forth.
So there's a couple of thingsthat can be done from an
employer point of view.
There is no one-size-fits-all.
Most employers are now offeringsome version of a telemedicine
vendor.
Most folks have an EAP, right.
(19:25):
Most folks have some semblanceof a wellness program.
So that's still the 80-20 rule.
You're maybe getting to 50, 60%of the population, but also,
for the most part, they're thehealthier folks.
So it's very, very important tooffer solutions like GOMO from
a chronic condition managementperspective.
(19:45):
Get these folks to have somewins, some short-term wins.
Hey, I lost six pounds over thelast two weeks.
This is great.
I love my employer this week,right, for example.
So the mistakes that an employercan make is just to ignore the
data, right?
Third-party administrators, theconsultants, the brokers can
(20:10):
all review the data periodically, but they're looking at cost
centers, right.
So they're not necessarilylooking at the underlying
problems that are kind ofbubbling up more and more to the
surface.
And really the most importantstrategy is communication
between both parties.
You are in a partnership, right, and it should be a lucrative
(20:30):
partnership for both sides andthe ability for the employer to
be able to track.
Hey, Bob Gold missed eight fewerdays this year at work than he
did last year.
He's just become more valuableto the employer and Bob thinks
highly of the employer becausehe's doing a couple of mental
health programs.
(20:51):
Or he just started yoga right,that he was notified of that the
employer is vetting andparticipating in, right.
So those are really the keystrategies.
You need to have something foreveryone at all times.
Everybody is in a differentstage of their life.
You have to have a tobaccoprogram available Whenever
(21:12):
you're ready to start quittingor thinking about quitting.
It has to be there, readilyavailable, and it has to become
top of mind for the employee sotoday's point, what gomo does is
, look, people have multipleconditions.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You have physical, mental issues, the.
You need kind of a quarterbackto help you know when to take
advantage of those.
Because today's point you mayforget, but like, I'll give you
an example.
I met with a health plan, I metwith an employer, like they
both.
Oh, we got a we.
We have an op for diabetes, onefor heart, a different one for
(21:52):
hypertension.
Oh, we have on our portal fivearticles on anxiety, another
thing for sleep, another thingfor smoking.
Like it's just, it actuallydecreases self-efficacy because
it's too much like people movein and out of things like today
I can be okay, tomorrow Ihaven't.
(22:12):
So there has to be somethingthat's learning about the person
, suggesting things they do.
And if you're having troublesleeping, going to a portal that
has 10 articles on sleepprobably worsens your sleep.
Right, I mean, like you know.
But if what Gomo learns aboutsomeone and says, hey, shelly, I
(22:35):
you know how are you doing.
And then you click on our thingI'm having trouble sleeping,
and then we get out Is it acuteor chronic?
We don't ask you like that.
And then we say, okay, showwhat time do you go to sleep
around 10?
Okay, we're going to send yousome things around nine to help
you, like that, based on who youare, right.
So, and you're sitting theresaying, wow, finally, someone in
(22:57):
healthcare.
When I answer something, Iactually see how it affects my
life, and you're not answeringfive different apps and things
and having to figure it out allon your own.
So we're helping you, liketoday's point, there may be some
nutritionists available, butmaybe I remember that, maybe I
(23:19):
don't, but maybe somethinghappened in my family and GOMO
is asking these questions as thequarterback and we say, oh,
dave, do you know that there'ssome?
There's, uh, debbie, thenutritionist available now may
be a good time to.
And you're like okay, well,we'll connect you, dave.
And you're like, oh, yeah,right, I, I, my, my kid just
(23:41):
became gluten free.
I don't know what to do.
That's what GOMO does.
We are their one intimate buddythat keeps on learning about
through the transitions and thenconnects them to what makes
sense and then deals with theirbrain, health as well and
(24:02):
performance.
I think it's we all need andjust to give you one example, to
have a little fun in banking,if you have like your brokerage,
if you have an account manager.
This is how health care woulddo it.
Shelly, okay, shelly, speak totommy for your checking account
(24:22):
and you for your savings.
That's Betty.
And oh, you want a loan?
That's Tommy.
And you know, and on and on andon.
Like you know, most otherindustries has a concept of
packaging that for you,providing a point person and
giving you a plan, whether it'show to manage your money, wealth
(24:45):
management, whatever it may beand they try to integrate that
and then give you stuff for yourfuture.
Oh, you want to retire in theseyears, or you're having a baby,
or you want to move to a house.
So think about it.
And if health care did it, youwould have to speak to eight
people and then he'd ask you thesame questions.
(25:07):
You wouldn't know what to do.
And who do you call if yourissue transcends checking,
savings and your loan?
Like, what do you got to getall three of them on the line?
But that's health care andthat's I just, I'm just saying
to have a little fun, but that'swhat GOMO does for people.
Saying to have a little fun,but that's what GOMO does for
(25:28):
people.
We provide that one-stop personlogically through our digital
care management.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Thanks, bob.
Obviously, communication there,as you're describing, and
overall in life we know, is hugeto being successful and having
open lines of communication andgetting that sort of feedback,
because you can't really help ifyou don't know what the issue
is in that moment of need.
So hugely important and thesame for our listeners.
(25:52):
We want to hear from you, wewant your voice, we want to get
your questions, so please submitthem to us for Bob or I or Dave
or future guests that we'll behaving on the show, different
topics that we'll be promoting.
You can submit them or commenton this episode or direct
message on our social channelsto submit those ideas.
(26:13):
Dave Drapp, I want to thank youfor joining us today.
Bob, as always, a pleasure toco-host with you.
Thank you all for listening tothis episode about how employers
can manage these rising healthcosts we're all facing and if
you enjoyed what you heard,please subscribe or submit your
questions and be heard and likeor comment on this episode For
(26:34):
more expert insights into theworld of health care.
Visit us at gomohealthcom andbe sure to tune in on Thursdays
to catch our freshest content.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Thank you, Shell and Dave.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yes, thanks for joining us again.
Dave Drapp, bob Gold, good tohear and see you both and we
will be speaking again with yousoon.
Thanks everybody for joining usand thanks for listening.
What I would suggest from an employer perspective is
psychological safety is notgoing away.
The gap has actually increasedover the last several years.
You know more and more folksare working from home or remote,
so you do lose that inneroffice connectivity periodically
, right?
(00:27):
So there is a lot of stress outthere.
Am I replaceable today?
Is it going to be tomorrow,right?
So on and so forth.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work or care for ourselves
and others.
Hi, I'm Shelley Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yambal Gold Founder and Chief Behavioral
Technologist.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Healthcare is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I arejoined by workplace wellness
expert Dave Drapp to explorewhat's truly driving rising
(01:19):
healthcare costs, how theseincreases are impacting
employers and the most effectivestrategies to address them.
Listen as we unpack keyworkplace trends and how you can
prepare for them.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And Dave I've known for several years.
Great guy, Dave, tell us alittle bit about yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, first of all, bob and Shelley and team thanks
for having me on the podcasttoday.
Bob and Shelley and team thanksfor having me on the podcast
today.
It's a great honor.
I've been in the corporatespace for about 30 years.
I've had a lot of experience inthe behavioral health space,
corporate sales payers, healthproviders, health systems and a
(02:02):
whole boatload of work withbrokers, third-party
administrators and consultantsin the employer space.
I'm married, I have fourchildren and I love to do
triathlons.
How's that for personal?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And you're just in Switzerland, right?
I love the mountain pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I was.
I was just in Switzerland and Ihad the opportunity to hike up
an 11 an 11,500 foot mountainand we took some beautiful
pictures from the top.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
All right, hopefully this, this podcast, won't be
nearly as rigorous as that day,but we'll try to keep you on
your toes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So we all know we're looking at a pretty crazy
marketplace right now, veryactive.
We have a lot going onpolitically.
We have a lot going onpolitically.
We have a lot influencing oureconomy and specifically in the
health care space.
So, dave, of all the differentthings that are going on right
now inflation and chroniccondition management and the
cost of drugs, our agingpopulation, different things
(03:03):
like that Can you pick maybe twoof the biggest key drivers that
are driving healthcare costsright now today?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, I think I would like to kind of put them in
order of impact from a sheerdollars perspective, from an
employer perspective.
So the first one is the agingpopulation.
So we're all working more andmore into our later and later
golden years, if you will.
(03:33):
So, with that being said, beingan aging population does create
more need for chronic conditionmanagement.
It's kind of a ripple effect,if you will.
So it's great to have seasonedemployees on many levels, but
then you have to start dealingwith some of the chronic
conditions.
(03:53):
Maybe a newly diagnoseddiabetic, for example, can
create more cost and pressure ona particular health plan.
So I would say, agingpopulations, chronic conditions,
healthcare, workforce shortagesare a big deal in a couple of
different spaces.
First and foremost in themental health space, right?
(04:15):
So we're five years out of aglobal pandemic.
There's still a lot of peoplestruggling and suffering and the
average wait time for yourtherapy appointment is still
about six to eight weeks today,so that shortage will continue.
And then you have the drugprices and inflation, which kind
of go hand in hand from aninflationary perspective, right.
(04:37):
So all of the above that you'velisted are very important, but
I would list them in thatparticular category, from one to
five or six.
They all have an impact, butthe significant impacts are the
chronic conditions and then theaging populations.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I want to add to that as an example the condition
that has the most dramatic risein the last five years from a
workman's comp is stress.
Like stress claims forworkman's comp anxiety,
(05:20):
depression have increaseddramatically.
You know, know, from anemployer perspective there is a
correlation between mentalhealth and what dave mentioned
in terms of substance usetreatment and recovery right,
because that has dramaticallygone up.
So I would say, uh, brainhealth overall is a key, key
(05:44):
factor in what Dave said.
It also affects how you could,how an employer could, do
preventative healthcaresolutions to maybe delay someone
becoming a type two diabetic orcreate a world of psychological
(06:07):
safety.
So I think focusing on thebrain, which typically
healthcare cut off from the restof the body, I think is key for
employers and that's a newemerging area of science.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Dave and Bob, from everything that we're talking
about, all these differentchallenges that we're facing,
that employers are facing today,would you say that there's a
different impact depending onsize of companies, certainly
from a cost perspective, butalso just from a workforce, a
cultural perspective.
The impact overall, large andsmall.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, there's a couple of follow-ups there,
shelley.
So, regardless of company size,every company is impacted
pretty much the same.
Even if you're doing a half amillion dollars in sales or 300
million in sales, the impact isrelatively similar.
Because the second biggestexpense that you have as an
(07:08):
employer is healthcare and thehealthcare costs that are
associated with it, right?
So a couple of follow-ups toBob's comment.
Each state now has metrics inplace from a risk factor
perspective.
There are three categories ofrisk.
There's low, medium and highrisk.
In the low risk area, you'regenerally spending less than
(07:30):
$1,000 a year on stuff forsomebody that's relatively
healthy, right?
In the medium category, mediumrisk factors means that you have
two to three risk factors thatare borderline becoming an issue
or a concern.
In that particular category,it's about $2,500.
And when you get into the thirdcategory, high risk areas,
(07:53):
chronic conditions it's north of$4,000.
So when you start doing thatmath, there's massive amounts of
opportunity for an employer tofocus on high, medium and making
sure that folks stay in thoselow-risk categories from a
budgetary impact.
So it's about 28% of overallcost per employer group.
(08:18):
And then you have yourpersonnel cost and you want to
stay below that 50 55% mark ormetric whenever you can.
And the last thing I'll say isevery health plan on the planet
generally goes up between 5 and18% year over year, regardless
of what you do as an employer.
(08:38):
So you have to take all ofthose things into consideration.
And, last but not least, that'sgenerally the only area that
there's no budget or forecastit's your healthcare costs.
You're just trying to staywithin parameters and guidelines
from a numbers perspective.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, that's fascinating and you know it's
interesting.
Dave, talk a little bit aboutwhat GOMO has seen in the
industry.
Introducing our digital caremanagement, digital therapeutics
to employers is really the lackof utilization of EAPs.
(09:21):
When employers are trying tomake things available to your
point date to keep you in thelower category mental, physical
issues.
Why is it that current EAPsaren't utilized?
They're not really providing anROI and what are some of the
(09:42):
strategies that we're doing tohelp that?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So there's a couple of things here to unpack.
First off, everybody's beenthrough open enrollment, you
know, listening to this podcast.
So you have, generally speaking, 20 to 30 days to make all of
your elective decisions and yourinsurance decisions.
Do I want to be on a highdeductible plan?
Do I want to be in amarketplace plan?
(10:08):
All of those differentdecisions go into play and then
you make your decisions and thenfrom that point you kind of go
dormant on your health planuntil there's an emergency or
there's an issue, or son ordaughter is sick, right.
So then you reboot all of thatinformation and you really don't
know what you don't know.
(10:29):
Employers in totality do offergood benefits, kind of across
the board, right.
Employees think their benefitsstink, but that's because they
don't know a ton about what theofferings actually are, right.
So there's this massive likeclosing the loop process that
(10:51):
GOMO has been very good at, inessence promoting and marketing
the benefits that are inexistence, and then GOMO can
help provide where they'relacking and offering additional
benefits.
Our marketing teams do afantastic job in doing monthly
calendar events.
So our main goal here, from abehavior RX standpoint, is we
(11:15):
want the employee, when they'rein crisis, to be thinking
clearly All right, my baby has avery, very severe diaper rash,
should I just run her to the ER?
Or, oh, I remember I haveaccess to my telemedicine vendor
, so I make a phone call it's a$40 cost to the employer
themselves and then you saveseveral hundred dollars from an
(11:39):
ER perspective and you're backto work the next day.
You didn't have to spend thenight in the ER, for example.
And then one other comment Iwant to make here if employers
can close that loop, in that gap, there is a massive, massive
loyalty opportunity for theemployee and the employer.
Right, the employer can sharethe benefits offerings and if
(12:02):
the employee uses them andconsumes them the proper way,
they tend to stay longer.
When we used to implementwellness programs and they were
effective the folks thatparticipated in the wellness
benefit offering stayed ninemonths longer than someone that
didn't participate in a wellnessoffering.
(12:24):
That's a huge cost savings froma training, you know, turnover
perspective, kind of across theboard.
So, bob, that's a really greatpoint where the goal here should
be to close the loop, shoutfrom the mountaintop as an
employer and then behavior Rxand train the employee when
they're in a situation of crisis, right to be consuming the
(12:46):
health plan in the proper way.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Bob, can you, can you ?
That's great, dave.
Thank you, bob.
Taking that let's talk aboutthat from and the impact overall
, like what's happening in theemployer's mind, in the
employee's mind, and how is thatconnecting from a behavioral
and cognitive perspective tomake them more loyal, to impact
(13:13):
retention, to help empower themin their healthcare, what
happens kind of behind thescenes, cognitively, to deepen
that connection?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
yeah, and I'll tell you what that is.
But one added thing in additionto retention, some employers
use strategies about recruitment, right, like we have one
hospital that was actuallyshortage of nurses, that was
using GOMO and what it, how ithelped the nurses to recruit
(13:46):
nurses, as example, as employees.
So you know, interestingly, inmy world, many cognitive
behavioral scientists say themother of all fears is
uncertainty.
The mother of all fears isuncertainty and if you think
about it, the rapid change inour world has outpaced people's
(14:06):
ability to get their head aroundit.
So lately, between COVID and,as you mentioned, shelley, some
of the changes in Californiaearthquakes, weather changes,
the wars that are going onPeople don't know what to do at
(14:30):
work, home and play.
It's a hard, tough environment.
So I think what the employersneed to focus on is
understanding that it's not justoh, we'll pay for a Fitbit and
count steps, right, I mean,those are fine, but you're not
(14:51):
getting at, a lot of times, theroot cause of issues.
A lot of times the reason whypeople are gaining weight is
having physical issues like GIor other things is because of
their anxiety, stress, notknowing.
It causes some people to eatless, some people to eat more
(15:14):
and it also detracts.
It's interesting working withthe Center for Brain Health and
some global economists on how todefine the effect of brain
performance on recruitmentretention, gross margin and
innovation at a company.
(15:34):
If people are not able to focustoday's point, whether it's
because of their children andthey don't know what to do, or
themselves of their children andthey don't know what to do, or
themselves, that certainlydoesn't help a company with
process improvement, innovation,those types of things.
And, just to make onefascinating comment, in the last
(15:55):
two weeks been approached bytwo large employers.
They have 50 000 or more peopleeach of them around ai.
So here is what they said ishappening.
They said look, we have a lotof anxiety stress.
Already.
(16:16):
A lot of the executives youknow believe ai is going to
solve all these problems for us,right?
And they're passing this downto the folks to get it done.
And the folks are a littleconfused about exactly how to do
that.
Is it replacing me?
(16:36):
Is it like, how do I do that?
We don't where this is thrustat us, where this is thrust at
us, we don't really truly getall that, what ai could do, how
to do it.
So what?
They come to us and said bob,we realized we made a mistake.
It's actually causing moreanxiety and stress.
(16:58):
So we have to alter how weengage employees to take
advantage of AI, because we'realmost decreasing self-efficacy
in using AI and getting thingsdone, because now they're
totally confused about thefuture right of themselves,
their job, what it means.
(17:19):
So I think my summary is let'sreally work with employers to
help them with their employeeswith brain performance and
fitness.
Like I always say, you go tothe gym for your body.
What's the gym for your brain?
Which controls your body?
(17:41):
Right, which controls your body?
And that's what I think GOMO isdoing for a lot of employers
and that's why we got that call.
But I just want to point outthat you know, innovation like
AI how a company actuallymanifests itself and gets it
done has an effect on employeehealth and wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Thanks Bob Dave.
Any thoughts on that froma?
Thanks Bob Dave.
Any thoughts on?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
that from a cultural impact perspective or things
that employers might be able todo tactically to better
socialize the importance ofhealth and wellness to their
employees.
Of thoughts here.
First and foremost, the datacollection today is
significantly better than it wasfive years ago 10 years ago,
right.
So we have really greatsnapshots and opportunities in
time overall to where we can seecost impacts from an
(18:38):
absenteeism perspective, forexample right.
So what I would suggest from anemployer perspective is
psychological safety is notgoing away.
The gap has actually increasedover the last several years.
You know more and more folks areworking from home or remote, so
you do lose that inner officeconnectivity periodically, right
(19:03):
.
So there is a lot of stress outthere.
Am I replaceable today?
Is it going to be tomorrow?
Right, so on and so forth.
So there's a couple of thingsthat can be done from an
employer point of view.
There is no one-size-fits-all.
Most employers are now offeringsome version of a telemedicine
vendor.
Most folks have an EAP, right.
(19:25):
Most folks have some semblanceof a wellness program.
So that's still the 80-20 rule.
You're maybe getting to 50, 60%of the population, but also,
for the most part, they're thehealthier folks.
So it's very, very important tooffer solutions like GOMO from
a chronic condition managementperspective.
(19:45):
Get these folks to have somewins, some short-term wins.
Hey, I lost six pounds over thelast two weeks.
This is great.
I love my employer this week,right, for example.
So the mistakes that an employercan make is just to ignore the
data, right?
Third-party administrators, theconsultants, the brokers can
(20:10):
all review the data periodically, but they're looking at cost
centers, right.
So they're not necessarilylooking at the underlying
problems that are kind ofbubbling up more and more to the
surface.
And really the most importantstrategy is communication
between both parties.
You are in a partnership, right, and it should be a lucrative
(20:30):
partnership for both sides andthe ability for the employer to
be able to track.
Hey, Bob Gold missed eight fewerdays this year at work than he
did last year.
He's just become more valuableto the employer and Bob thinks
highly of the employer becausehe's doing a couple of mental
health programs.
(20:51):
Or he just started yoga right,that he was notified of that the
employer is vetting andparticipating in, right.
So those are really the keystrategies.
You need to have something foreveryone at all times.
Everybody is in a differentstage of their life.
You have to have a tobaccoprogram available Whenever
(21:12):
you're ready to start quittingor thinking about quitting.
It has to be there, readilyavailable, and it has to become
top of mind for the employee sotoday's point, what gomo does is
, look, people have multipleconditions.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You have physical, mental issues, the.
You need kind of a quarterbackto help you know when to take
advantage of those.
Because today's point you mayforget, but like, I'll give you
an example.
I met with a health plan, I metwith an employer, like they
both.
Oh, we got a we.
We have an op for diabetes, onefor heart, a different one for
(21:52):
hypertension.
Oh, we have on our portal fivearticles on anxiety, another
thing for sleep, another thingfor smoking.
Like it's just, it actuallydecreases self-efficacy because
it's too much like people movein and out of things like today
I can be okay, tomorrow Ihaven't.
(22:12):
So there has to be somethingthat's learning about the person
, suggesting things they do.
And if you're having troublesleeping, going to a portal that
has 10 articles on sleepprobably worsens your sleep.
Right, I mean, like you know.
But if what Gomo learns aboutsomeone and says, hey, shelly, I
(22:35):
you know how are you doing.
And then you click on our thingI'm having trouble sleeping,
and then we get out Is it acuteor chronic?
We don't ask you like that.
And then we say, okay, showwhat time do you go to sleep
around 10?
Okay, we're going to send yousome things around nine to help
you, like that, based on who youare, right.
So, and you're sitting theresaying, wow, finally, someone in
(22:57):
healthcare.
When I answer something, Iactually see how it affects my
life, and you're not answeringfive different apps and things
and having to figure it out allon your own.
So we're helping you, liketoday's point, there may be some
nutritionists available, butmaybe I remember that, maybe I
(23:19):
don't, but maybe somethinghappened in my family and GOMO
is asking these questions as thequarterback and we say, oh,
dave, do you know that there'ssome?
There's, uh, debbie, thenutritionist available now may
be a good time to.
And you're like okay, well,we'll connect you, dave.
And you're like, oh, yeah,right, I, I, my, my kid just
(23:41):
became gluten free.
I don't know what to do.
That's what GOMO does.
We are their one intimate buddythat keeps on learning about
through the transitions and thenconnects them to what makes
sense and then deals with theirbrain, health as well and
(24:02):
performance.
I think it's we all need andjust to give you one example, to
have a little fun in banking,if you have like your brokerage,
if you have an account manager.
This is how health care woulddo it.
Shelly, okay, shelly, speak totommy for your checking account
(24:22):
and you for your savings.
That's Betty.
And oh, you want a loan?
That's Tommy.
And you know, and on and on andon.
Like you know, most otherindustries has a concept of
packaging that for you,providing a point person and
giving you a plan, whether it'show to manage your money, wealth
(24:45):
management, whatever it may beand they try to integrate that
and then give you stuff for yourfuture.
Oh, you want to retire in theseyears, or you're having a baby,
or you want to move to a house.
So think about it.
And if health care did it, youwould have to speak to eight
people and then he'd ask you thesame questions.
(25:07):
You wouldn't know what to do.
And who do you call if yourissue transcends checking,
savings and your loan?
Like, what do you got to getall three of them on the line?
But that's health care andthat's I just, I'm just saying
to have a little fun, but that'swhat GOMO does for people.
Saying to have a little fun,but that's what GOMO does for
(25:28):
people.
We provide that one-stop personlogically through our digital
care management.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Thanks, bob.
Obviously, communication there,as you're describing, and
overall in life we know, is hugeto being successful and having
open lines of communication andgetting that sort of feedback,
because you can't really help ifyou don't know what the issue
is in that moment of need.
So hugely important and thesame for our listeners.
(25:52):
We want to hear from you, wewant your voice, we want to get
your questions, so please submitthem to us for Bob or I or Dave
or future guests that we'll behaving on the show, different
topics that we'll be promoting.
You can submit them or commenton this episode or direct
message on our social channelsto submit those ideas.
(26:13):
Dave Drapp, I want to thank youfor joining us today.
Bob, as always, a pleasure toco-host with you.
Thank you all for listening tothis episode about how employers
can manage these rising healthcosts we're all facing and if
you enjoyed what you heard,please subscribe or submit your
questions and be heard and likeor comment on this episode For
(26:34):
more expert insights into theworld of health care.
Visit us at gomohealthcom andbe sure to tune in on Thursdays
to catch our freshest content.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Thank you, Shell and Dave.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yes, thanks for joining us again.
Dave Drapp, bob Gold, good tohear and see you both and we
will be speaking again with yousoon.
Thanks everybody for joining usand thanks for listening.
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