December 3, 2025 • 31 mins
The warning signs of suicide are often visible, but easy to miss. In this episode of Human Resilience, we sit down with suicide prevention expert Susan Tellone to explore how trauma, stress, and emotional overwhelm can quietly build toward crisis, and the practical steps anyone can take to recognize and respond early.
Drawing from decades in hospice care, schools, and psychiatric emergency rooms, Susan explains why self-harm runs counter to our deepest survival instincts—and how connection, validation, and presence can shift someone back toward safety. She also unpacks the FACS model (Feelings, Actions, Changes, and Talk), how to interpret subtle cues, and the everyday situations that increase vulnerability.
Listen & Learn:
- The real warning signs, and what distress looks like in behavior, language, and emotional shifts
- How simple, nonjudgmental prompts like “tell me more” open the door to honesty and safety
- Tools to address loneliness, overexposure, achievement stress, and social media overload in teens and beyond
- Micro-practices, joy resets, and sustainable strategies to maintain emotional well-being while supporting others
For teens and adults alike, Susan offers a grounded, compassionate framework anyone—parents, educators, friends, coworkers—can use to help someone feel seen and supported. We also highlight how community-based programs and digital engagement tools extend care between touchpoints and reduce relapse risk.
If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 for the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. If this conversation resonates, share it with someone who may need it and subscribe for more episodes that humanize healing.
Guest:
- Susan Tellone, Susan Tellone, MSN, BSN, CSN, Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Expert
Hosts:
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Marketing & Client Services Officer, GoMo Health
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive new episode drops, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
We're seeing a rise in suicide.
Um, you know, over the last twodecades, uh, I think it's like a
37% increase uh across the agespan.
And that's the thing.
It's across the age span.
I mean, I've done a lot of workwith children, but um, you know,
just honestly, in the last twoweeks, I've dealt with three
(00:26):
different incidences.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, and care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at Gomo Health.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters, and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
Sometimes the most importantsigns are the ones we don't see,
(01:07):
even if they seem to be right infront of us.
And sometimes we're just notrecognizing what should be
clearly apparent.
Today we're going to be talkingabout a deeply important topic,
and that's suicide preventionand the role that we all play in
recognizing distress andresponding with compassion and
with care.
Our guest today is SusanTallone.
(01:29):
Susan is a suicide preventionand mental health advocate with
extensive experience supportingyouth, families, and communities
through crisis.
Susan is here to help usunderstand how trauma, mental
health, and substance use oftenintersect in these situations
and how we can all be part ofthe recognizing the signs and
(01:50):
the solution.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Yeah, and I'm excited to have Susan.
We've worked together in thepast and she's wonderful.
And Susan, you know, given theholidays are coming,
Thanksgiving and Christmas andthe holidays, it could be a
especially stressful time forcertain people as well.
And I know you've worked in alltypes of situations, but what
(02:12):
got you into this fieldoriginally?
What was your original triggeror motivation?
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Oh, thanks, Bob, and thanks for having me.
Um, first of all, well, I'm anurse, right?
So I was where I started out inmedicine and I started out as a
hospice nurse working in uh withterminal cancer.
And it was really there that Isaw the survival instinct really
alive, people really, reallyill, but still hanging on to
(02:41):
life.
Uh, and it was my work to helpthem die with dignity and grace
and let go of life.
And so when I got into theemergency room, which was
another part of my medical work,and I started seeing and hearing
about suicide, I knew that itwent against our natural
instinct, our survival instinct.
(03:02):
And I knew that it wasunnatural.
And I became incredibly curiousabout it and started working in
the psychiatric emergency roomsand then went on from there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Well, that certainly would uh lead anyone to a deeper
understanding of this situationand and how to help people
through that journey.
And and Susan, you know, it'sinteresting.
We we talk about suicideprevention and we see it
unfortunately a lot in the newsand in personal situations.
(03:34):
And sometimes it seems justreally far removed from us.
It's it's something that'shappening to somebody else that
we're reading about and we feela little distant from, but of
course we have empathy for.
We know our world today isunfortunately filled with
traumatic events, naturaldisasters, uh, wars, fires, all
sorts of things that couldtrigger feelings of despair and
(03:58):
loneliness and isolation inpeople.
Are you seeing based on can yougive us a little insight on
today in our currentenvironment?
What are signs or trends ortriggers that might lead to
somebody having these sorts offeelings, things that we should
look for?
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Well, one thing that I I know for sure is that the
national trend is is increasing.
We're seeing a rise in suicide.
Um, you know, over the last twodecades, uh, I think it's like a
37% increase uh across the agespan.
And that's the thing.
It's across the age span.
I mean, I've done a lot of workwith children, but um, you know,
(04:40):
just honestly, in the last twoweeks, I've dealt with three
different incidences, uh, andthey were across the age span,
um, just you know, here in thestate of New Jersey.
So, you know, we know that umit's it's something that's
across the age span, acrosssocioeconomic uh factors, across
(05:03):
race, creed, it affectseveryone.
And that's the thing that Ithink everyone thinks it's going
to happen to somebody else.
But the truth of the matter isit's happening to all of us and
in all of our families.
And then the more you speak topeople, the more you'll find out
that it's more prevalent thanyou think.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
You know, and given those different different
people, different demographicsyou've just described, different
age groups, are there differentindicators, ways that people
might, you know, subconsciouslyexpress that they're dealing
with these difficulties or introubling situations that people
should have an eye out for orthat would be indicators that
(05:43):
somebody's going through adifficult time like this?
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Yeah, there are indicators.
You know, we call them warningsigns, uh, you know, and uh we
break, I break it down uh intouh an acronym called FACS.
So F stands for feeling.
So you're looking at what issomeone feeling?
What is sadness, helplessness,hopelessness, desperation.
And this is a cross uh for allpeople.
(06:08):
This warning signs are prettysimilar.
I can break it down a little bitdifferently, but actions, what
are they?
A stands for actions, what arethey doing?
Um, watching behavior, you know,is really, really important.
And any changes, C is forchanges.
What are there any changes fromtheir baseline?
Are they withdrawing now?
Were they social and now they'renot?
(06:30):
Were they um, you know, happy orand now are they withdrawing?
Have you seen a change in sleep,appetite?
And you also want to listen totalk.
You know, the T stands for talkor threats.
What are they saying?
Are they, you know, a lot oftimes we miss it because we are
used to people saying thingslike, I can't do this anymore, I
(06:51):
can't take this anymore.
When in fact they're telling yousomething and we're not asking
the questions, and thensituations, the S for in facts
situations.
What are they going through?
Is there a loss?
Is there a divorce?
Is there bullying, pull uphumiliation, you know, something
going on at work, school?
(07:11):
So we're looking at a bigpicture.
It's people want to pigeonholeit to one thing, but it's really
much bigger than that, andthat's why we have to ask the
question when you see somethingdifferent, are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
You know, Susan, about um close to 10 years ago,
I lost one of my best friends tosuicide.
And um I would say the T and thefacts, like he asked me a few
months before, he asked me to docertain things that I didn't
quite understand why I did them.
(07:49):
And unfortunately, I didn't pickup on it.
And a few months later hecommitted suicide, and then I
put it together.
He was actually trying toprepare for that and take care
of certain things that he knew Iwould when he was gone.
So, but you're right, I thinkthat's a good acronym, and I
(08:12):
think we have to be aware ofthat.
One other interesting point togo back to your original
interest from hospice.
So, you know, John Mellencamphas a song called Jack and
Diane.
You know, I think we all knowit.
And the the line that has stuckwith me for 20 years, I don't
even know how old that song is,is life goes on after the thrill
(08:36):
of living is gone.
Right.
So I think if I could sum upwhat you just said, I think we
can get a feeling from peoplewhen they feel that is gone, you
know, almost by the the tone,the way they speak, and all
those things, you know.
Um and I know it's hard.
(08:59):
So when you were dealing withyouth, like what are some things
you would tell parents to do orlook for as an example or act
on, let's say, for anadolescent, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Oh, yeah, and there's two pieces of suicidal
ideation that I try to look for,and um two components.
There's usually a sense ofloneliness, right?
They're alone, they feel alone.
Whether they are alone or not,doesn't matter.
They feel alone, and there'salso a sense of hopelessness,
they've lost hope.
(09:32):
So with adolescents, it's reallytricky because these kids don't
have the life experience to knowthat they can get through these
difficult times, right?
They don't have the experienceto draw on, so they can become
hopeless and very catastrophicfor things that we know as
adults.
So you can you can get throughthat.
(09:53):
So a lot of times we're lookingat things, especially with the
kids, through a lens of an adultwhen we really have to put
ourselves in their shoes andrealize they've never been
through this before.
You know, this breakup, theirgirlfriend just broke up with
them.
And we can say something triviallike, oh, there's lots of fish
in the sea, you're beautiful,you're gonna have lots of
boyfriends or girlfriends.
(10:13):
But in fact, this person, youknow, this was their first love.
This was their first experiencewith all of that, and they truly
believe they lost a lifepartner, even though they're 17,
you know, and so we need to 16,14, we need to really recognize
that their experience is notours, and yet it's valid, and we
(10:36):
must validate what they're goingthrough.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting in my research.
So, you know, in my behaviormodification science and
resiliency have engaged tens ofmillions of lives across the
world, and I've noticed apattern anecdotally, I've never
done deep, deep quantitativeresearch.
(11:01):
With the rise of social media,it's created more loneliness and
isolation, even though yourlikes may go up.
Because, you know, I see thetrend that no one really
understands me as a person.
There's a lot of surfaceconversations going on because
(11:21):
how deep do you get in thatenvironment?
And I think the exposure to somuch going on, the amount of
information, especially for anadolescent or even an adult,
they can't, the brain is notevolving at the rate of
(11:43):
information, and it'soverwhelming for people, like so
they shrink, and it actuallycreates more loneliness.
I found so you know, how do youwhat so what you know the key is
how do we do things as people inthe helping profession to bring
back that connectedness, youknow, in people.
(12:03):
And what have you seen to help,let's say, bring back that
connectiveness to start themmaybe rethinking their past.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Yeah, we've really got to be careful with the
social media and the and thephone and the the blue light,
and you know, it's what it is isthat our breath, our brains are
constantly being stimulated.
There's no rest period, there'sno time to recover, there's no
time to just quiet the brain.
And so the kids areoverstimulated, they're really
(12:37):
overstimulated.
So I always say to a child or anadolescent, after you're on
social media, I want you to sitback and ask yourself, how do I
feel?
Do I feel better or do I feelworse?
Because a lot of times, if we dothat even as adults, right?
Do I feel better or do I feelworse?
Geez, they're in Italy and I'mnot, you know, um, you know, is
(12:58):
my retirement not as good astheirs?
What did they do better than me?
You know, so we start goingthrough, and the same thing with
kids, you know, so we'recomparing ourselves and it's a
natural thing.
And somehow we may walk awayfeeling worse.
And that's what I try to tell.
Because if you say to a child,social media is all bad, they're
gonna be like, I'm not listeningto you.
This is my world.
(13:19):
But you've got to start to say,turn it off when you're starting
to feel bad and give your braina rest, you know, recharge a
little bit, go walk, take anexercise, do something to get
your body and brain connectedagain.
It's not all in your brain.
SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
Yeah, I think to your point, right, the key is
providing other give them ideasof other activities they can do
as opposed to saying what you'redoing is harming you and they
don't believe that, right?
So I think as anyone uh that's aprofessional or parent or
(13:58):
caregiver or anyone even seeinga brother or sister out there,
it's like, what can we do tohelp someone develop a different
schedule routine that they startmaybe changing their outlook in
life?
Uh, how can we get them to formhealthier habits, right?
(14:20):
That they feel better aboutthemselves.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
It's interesting, Bob, with little kids, right,
Susan, there's this wholeconcept of remove and replace.
That if you want children togive something up or take a
break from something, it'seasier to get them to take that
break from one thing if it'sreplaced by another thing.
So rather than to your point,removing the social media or
saying take a break from thesocial media, well, what are we
(14:44):
replacing it with?
I mean, I'm engaging with thatnow.
What are you putting in front ofme that I can also interact with
that's going to be healthier forme, but it's going to replace my
attention.
So it's that whole remove andreplace philosophy.
SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
Uh, totally.
And you know, in particular withthese younger generations
because they're so used to beingstimulated all the time, right?
Um, I remember, well, you know,being bored, you know, these
kids are not bored.
They're not used to being bored.
And so they're looking for thatreplacement.
And so we do have to teach them,whether it's, you know, go ride
(15:18):
your bike, take a walk, takeeven mindfulness, you know, take
a moment to just breathe andrelax.
Um, you know, there's lots ofwe're really doing that in
schools too, like helping kidsreset, uh recalibrate their
emotions and all of that, justyou know, giving them something,
like you said, to replace thatsocial media, which is
(15:39):
constantly stimulating them.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
You know what's interesting.
This is dating myself, but foranyone who hasn't seen an old
movie called To Serve with Lovestarring Sidney Portiguer, you
should do it.
So it took place with these verytroubled kids in England, and he
never taught before, and theyshoved them into the classroom
as okay, you you're never gonnahelp these kids, like they're
(16:06):
never gonna get better.
You know, these were all thederelicts and the school's mind
and the all the kids causingtrouble.
And he took the strategy, Susan,because this is what you're
saying, he taught them lifeskills.
Like, you know, he went over,like, hey, if you're dating,
here's some things to do.
If you're doing this, he tooksome of the boys out for a
(16:30):
boxing lesson, you know, like hereally kind of met them where
they were at.
And then when he asked them todo things, you saw the
reciprocity was fascinating,right?
So it's not sometimes you know,having always a you know, a
clinician work with someone,it's the what can we all do to
(16:55):
meet people where they're at,right?
I'm sure you've seen a lot ofthis.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
You know, I always say that, Bob.
I think that's such a key point.
You know, you do not have to bea psychiatrist or psychologist
or have any training inpsychiatry to save a life.
All you have to do is use yourhumanness, use your compassion,
use your eyes, use your ears,use your joy, you know, uh to
engage them.
(17:19):
Because if you think about thosetwo components, loneliness and
hopelessness, what what he didin that movie was connect,
right?
He connected with them.
And through that connection, heboosted them and also gave them
the belief in themselves.
Like when we think about what'sgoing on with our youth, a lot
of it is um there's a lack ofresiliency, a lack of the
(17:42):
ability to bounce back fromadversity.
Because honestly, quitehonestly, a lot of us, including
myself, as we were raising ourchildren, we fix things for
them, right?
We fix everything for them.
We don't want them to struggle,and so we jump in there and we
fix things.
And kids, when we do too muchfor our children, they start to
(18:04):
lose the ability to believe thatthey can do it for themselves.
And so we are when you'reconnecting with people, you're
telling them, I believe in you,I believe that you have the
strength to get through toughtimes, and I'll partner with
you, but you're not alone.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah, you know, here's an interesting story to
connect to that.
So I met a kid in college, andum, he came from a pretty
wealthy family, and I learned Iended up meeting his father and
grandfather, and he struggledwith a lot of bouts of
(18:44):
depression.
Luckily, today he's was able toovercome that.
But um he said, and Bob, I couldnever live up to what my father
or grandfather did, like in hismind, right?
Like, so he didn't feel and hehe could buy everything.
Now his father happened to benoticed that, so he didn't just
(19:06):
he had to work to get a car, youknow.
I mean, they had a lot of money,but he had to work.
But even though the fatherrecognized that it was to your
point, how do you instillself-worth or how does someone
feel you know worthy, right?
So uh in one of our programs, wemanage um we're the digital care
(19:29):
management for the drugtreatment court in Montana, and
the data showed us fascinatinglyif you were arrested for
substance use uh and put on thecourt treatment program, you had
more relapse and rearrests ifyou have children age seven to
17.
This is fascinating.
So no one else figured that out,but we did with all the data.
(19:51):
So we added more parenting tipsand tracks, and the reason was
they had so much stigma.
In some respects, it was easierto withdraw and not deal with
it.
Well, we added parenting tipsand helped them and helped them
get back to employment.
We saw the relapse and rearrestgo way down.
(20:12):
So I think to your point, ifyou're aware, there are things
you can do to help people, butit may not be the obvious.
You really have to look for it.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the word stigma, Bob,
because I think that's a bigbarrier to, you know, why aren't
we, why are our kids strugglingso much?
And stigma is shame, right?
Shame attached to to havingmental health challenges, to
having issues that people arelike, buck up, you know, just
you know, get strong.
And what we need to do is beable to say exactly that.
(20:43):
As with these parenting tips,you're giving them permission to
not be okay, perfectly okay.
And when you're talking aboutthat that friend of yours that
couldn't live up to his fatheror grandfather's expectations,
you know, that that I have seena lot of, especially in our area
uh uh uh where we live.
There's affluence here.
And I remember sitting in frontof it, uh really a child that
(21:06):
seemed to have it all.
And I say, you know, can youhelp me understand why you're
feeling like you don't want tolive anymore?
And he said, There's nothing I'mgonna do in my life to be able
to be as rich as my father, tobe as successful as my father,
because my father hit a bigduring the financial boom.
And there's just nothing I'mgonna be able to do to so we had
(21:27):
to really work with him toredefine what success is and
what's and what happiness is.
And I think that's a big part ofalso, you know, what's going on
with our kids is that you know,we we define success by
achievement and we push themvery hard for achievement, but
there's other ways of managingand and and and deciding what is
(21:47):
success.
And that um that conversationtook a long time with that boy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
And and Susan, you talked before about facts and
things to look for, signs tolook for.
What would you what would yousay is a good piece of advice
for people who are mayberecognizing signs, but really
not sure and concerned aboutbroaching something that they
might perceive as an issue butisn't, saying the wrong thing,
(22:16):
don't want to, you know, want toapproach this from a positive
place.
What's some advice to handlethose situations when you think
that you're seeing signs?
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Okay, that's a great question.
And I think that is exactly whypeople don't ask the question.
They're afraid to say the wrongthing.
So you don't have to sayanything.
Okay, so what you can do is justvalidate what they're going
through, validate theirfeelings.
No one will move beyond afeeling if they don't feel
heard.
So you say things like, Wow, youknow, if a kid says, you know,
(22:50):
you don't, you know, everyonehates me or there's no reason to
live, instead of you launchinginto there's so many reasons to
live, you say, tell me moreabout that.
Like, wow, that's a hard thingto believe or feel.
Can you tell me more?
Tell me more, are three magicalwords.
And and then just hold quiet tolisten to what they tell you.
(23:13):
And no matter what they say, nomatter what it is, I don't want
to live anymore, I can't standthis, that, and even if you
totally disagree with them, youyou say you validate it, you say
that must be really hard to feelthat way.
And once again, you say, Keep,you know, I appreciate, thank
you for trusting me with thisconversation.
Tell me more, tell me more.
(23:34):
And you keep saying, tell memore, and guess what?
They tell you, because you'rethe first person to ask, most
people start immediatelydebating them, telling them
they're wrong for feeling theway they are, moving them in
another direction.
Can't they can't hold space forthe pain, and that is where we
(23:55):
go wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Yeah, I could tell you, Susan, that's so right on
in our digital therapeutics.
We've engaged tens of millionsof lives, and I could tell you
the strategy that works is youhave to demonstrate some loyalty
or interest first before whetheryou're a clinician or not,
(24:19):
supposedly smart person with theanswers, earns the right to tell
them something, right?
Because they'll turn you off.
So it's understanding wherepeople are at and their
feelings, and you know, justarticulating that to your point
is cathartic for a lot ofpeople, like just finally
expressing it to another humanbeing who's interested could
(24:42):
save a life, you know.
Um, and that's a good stepforward, right?
To help somebody realize maybethere are people who care or
interested and who can work withme who I'm comfortable, you
know, talking to, as opposed to,oh, I see a sign, let me bring
(25:06):
you right away too.
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonnahelp you, you know, we're gonna
cure you or help you.
Like that's not necessarily apath that is gonna work.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
Using compassionate curiosity.
Tell me about what you're goingthrough, tell me about your
girlfriend that just broke upwith you, with a heart, with
with love in your voice, withlistening, you know, tell me
about it.
And all of a sudden you becomethe adult that this child wants
to talk to.
You wonder why kids choosetrusted adults.
We ask kids this all the time.
(25:40):
What is it that you look for ina trusted adult?
And they say, someone wholistens without judgment,
without judgment.
And that's what I'm looking for.
The minute we start to judge ordecide that, you know, that
tattoo wasn't a good idea, youknow, though tell me why you got
the tattoo.
What does it mean to you?
(26:01):
You know, there's a differencein conversation.
So if you're not judging themand you're listening, they will
talk.
They will talk.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
And Susan, actually reversing the lens here, we
actually had a uh pre-submittedquestion when we talked about
this being subject matter thatwe would be talking about with
you from a provider from ahealthcare professional who
asked how they can take care oftheir own mental health when
they're supporting other peoplewho are in crisis.
(26:32):
Any advice for them?
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Well, I I walk yeah, I walk that walk every day.
Um, you know, I what I I tunein, you know, for myself.
I you know, like I told you,I've had three, I've had three
suicides in the last threeweeks, right?
So what do I do?
I'm working with people.
I I pay attention to how I'mdoing.
I look at my how am I sleeping?
(26:55):
Uh, don't I try to pay closerattention to how I'm eating.
Uh, I start to this morning, Idid some meditation and yoga,
which is not normally my thing.
I'll usually go for a walk, butI I needed the quiet in the
mind.
You know, just paying attentionand giving yourself the one
thing I think, you know, whenpeople think about self-care,
they think I gotta go for amassage or I gotta go to a spa.
(27:15):
No, you don't.
You just need to tune into a fewminutes throughout the day to
take care of yourself.
Did I drink water today?
Did I talk to a friend?
You know, um, can I get home intime to see my kids tonight?
You know, all those littlethings that are self-care.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah, and just to add one other element for fun,
because it's about laughter isthe best medicine.
You know, sometimes we all needa little bit of a break from
doing all the things.
So I would say, Shelly, toanswer your question, uh the the
TV show Shrinking is hysterical.
It's about three psychiatristswho have tremendous issues in
(27:56):
life themselves.
And it stars Harrison board, andit's hysterical.
So, you know, but we did that.
We uh Susan, we launched, we'rewe're I'm sorry, we're just
about to launch the first everpreventative uh resiliency
program with actually built-incrises drills in advance for
(28:17):
police, firefighter, EMT, andthen we're gonna add military.
And um one of the things we alsohave in there is kind of a have
fun, laughter sex, like what areyour peers doing to break things
up from a funny way or lifestyleor get people to smile, right?
I I think that could be missingin today's day and age with all
(28:41):
these things, but I think it'sto Susan's point about giving
your brain a break.
You know, if you're laughing, ifyou're having a good time,
you're giving your brain abreak, you know.
So I would strongly suggest thattry people try to fit that in
where you can.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Oh, I love that.
I love that, you know, andpeople say to me all the time,
you're always smiling.
Well, sometimes I'm smiling, youknow, a genuine smile.
Sometimes I'm faking it, but uhsometimes, you know, you fake it
till you make it kind of thing.
But laughing for me is is reallyworks for me, you know.
Like you say, putting yourselfin front of a funny show at the
(29:16):
end of a long, hard day.
I never go into a heavy show.
I certainly don't turn on thenews too much.
I do things like that, puttingmyself in front of lighter
moments, uh, or joyful moments,you know, joyful moments.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah, and just to bring in the cognitive
neuroscience side of that,there's definitely endorphins,
there's definitely various typesof hormonal issues.
There's electrical signals thathappen when you're laughing and
smiling, and your d your brainis in another place in time.
It's a fascinating thing.
(29:50):
So, yeah, comedy works.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
It does.
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
For sure, it does.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Okay, I was just gonna really, this is such
unique perspective.
Like I said, it's heavy, right,Susan?
I give so much respect andcredit to you for dealing with
this day to day and learning howto help others and help
yourself, really.
It's been wonderful sharing thiswith you this time and hearing
(30:17):
your perspective.
And just understanding theseconversations aren't always
easy.
And we need to see the signs andlisten to what people are saying
and tune in with ourselves, headcheck ourselves and broach those
conversations because just asyou said, it's it's not the
wrong thing.
It's being there for people andrecognizing that they really
(30:39):
need somebody to talk to andbeing that outlet for that.
And these are really, reallyimportant tools and tips that
you've given us today.
And combined with that for ourlisteners, if you or somebody
you know is in crisis, pleasecall or text 988 to connect with
the Suicide and Crisis Lifelineright now.
And if you want to learn moreabout GOMO Health programs that
(31:03):
Bob was speaking about thatsupport behavioral and emotional
resilience and build that inindividuals who participate,
visit our website atgomohealth.com.
If you enjoyed what you heardhere today, please subscribe and
submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode and our others.
And for more expert insightsinto the world of healthcare,
(31:25):
visit us at gomohealth.com andbe sure to tune in on Thursday
to catch our freshest content.
Thank you all for joining us andthank you for listening.
We're seeing a rise in suicide.
Um, you know, over the last twodecades, uh, I think it's like a
37% increase uh across the agespan.
And that's the thing.
It's across the age span.
I mean, I've done a lot of workwith children, but um, you know,
just honestly, in the last twoweeks, I've dealt with three
(00:26):
different incidences.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, and care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at Gomo Health.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters, and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
Sometimes the most importantsigns are the ones we don't see,
(01:07):
even if they seem to be right infront of us.
And sometimes we're just notrecognizing what should be
clearly apparent.
Today we're going to be talkingabout a deeply important topic,
and that's suicide preventionand the role that we all play in
recognizing distress andresponding with compassion and
with care.
Our guest today is SusanTallone.
(01:29):
Susan is a suicide preventionand mental health advocate with
extensive experience supportingyouth, families, and communities
through crisis.
Susan is here to help usunderstand how trauma, mental
health, and substance use oftenintersect in these situations
and how we can all be part ofthe recognizing the signs and
(01:50):
the solution.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Yeah, and I'm excited to have Susan.
We've worked together in thepast and she's wonderful.
And Susan, you know, given theholidays are coming,
Thanksgiving and Christmas andthe holidays, it could be a
especially stressful time forcertain people as well.
And I know you've worked in alltypes of situations, but what
(02:12):
got you into this fieldoriginally?
What was your original triggeror motivation?
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Oh, thanks, Bob, and thanks for having me.
Um, first of all, well, I'm anurse, right?
So I was where I started out inmedicine and I started out as a
hospice nurse working in uh withterminal cancer.
And it was really there that Isaw the survival instinct really
alive, people really, reallyill, but still hanging on to
(02:41):
life.
Uh, and it was my work to helpthem die with dignity and grace
and let go of life.
And so when I got into theemergency room, which was
another part of my medical work,and I started seeing and hearing
about suicide, I knew that itwent against our natural
instinct, our survival instinct.
(03:02):
And I knew that it wasunnatural.
And I became incredibly curiousabout it and started working in
the psychiatric emergency roomsand then went on from there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Well, that certainly would uh lead anyone to a deeper
understanding of this situationand and how to help people
through that journey.
And and Susan, you know, it'sinteresting.
We we talk about suicideprevention and we see it
unfortunately a lot in the newsand in personal situations.
(03:34):
And sometimes it seems justreally far removed from us.
It's it's something that'shappening to somebody else that
we're reading about and we feela little distant from, but of
course we have empathy for.
We know our world today isunfortunately filled with
traumatic events, naturaldisasters, uh, wars, fires, all
sorts of things that couldtrigger feelings of despair and
(03:58):
loneliness and isolation inpeople.
Are you seeing based on can yougive us a little insight on
today in our currentenvironment?
What are signs or trends ortriggers that might lead to
somebody having these sorts offeelings, things that we should
look for?
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Well, one thing that I I know for sure is that the
national trend is is increasing.
We're seeing a rise in suicide.
Um, you know, over the last twodecades, uh, I think it's like a
37% increase uh across the agespan.
And that's the thing.
It's across the age span.
I mean, I've done a lot of workwith children, but um, you know,
(04:40):
just honestly, in the last twoweeks, I've dealt with three
different incidences, uh, andthey were across the age span,
um, just you know, here in thestate of New Jersey.
So, you know, we know that umit's it's something that's
across the age span, acrosssocioeconomic uh factors, across
(05:03):
race, creed, it affectseveryone.
And that's the thing that Ithink everyone thinks it's going
to happen to somebody else.
But the truth of the matter isit's happening to all of us and
in all of our families.
And then the more you speak topeople, the more you'll find out
that it's more prevalent thanyou think.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
You know, and given those different different
people, different demographicsyou've just described, different
age groups, are there differentindicators, ways that people
might, you know, subconsciouslyexpress that they're dealing
with these difficulties or introubling situations that people
should have an eye out for orthat would be indicators that
(05:43):
somebody's going through adifficult time like this?
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Yeah, there are indicators.
You know, we call them warningsigns, uh, you know, and uh we
break, I break it down uh intouh an acronym called FACS.
So F stands for feeling.
So you're looking at what issomeone feeling?
What is sadness, helplessness,hopelessness, desperation.
And this is a cross uh for allpeople.
(06:08):
This warning signs are prettysimilar.
I can break it down a little bitdifferently, but actions, what
are they?
A stands for actions, what arethey doing?
Um, watching behavior, you know,is really, really important.
And any changes, C is forchanges.
What are there any changes fromtheir baseline?
Are they withdrawing now?
Were they social and now they'renot?
(06:30):
Were they um, you know, happy orand now are they withdrawing?
Have you seen a change in sleep,appetite?
And you also want to listen totalk.
You know, the T stands for talkor threats.
What are they saying?
Are they, you know, a lot oftimes we miss it because we are
used to people saying thingslike, I can't do this anymore, I
(06:51):
can't take this anymore.
When in fact they're telling yousomething and we're not asking
the questions, and thensituations, the S for in facts
situations.
What are they going through?
Is there a loss?
Is there a divorce?
Is there bullying, pull uphumiliation, you know, something
going on at work, school?
(07:11):
So we're looking at a bigpicture.
It's people want to pigeonholeit to one thing, but it's really
much bigger than that, andthat's why we have to ask the
question when you see somethingdifferent, are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
You know, Susan, about um close to 10 years ago,
I lost one of my best friends tosuicide.
And um I would say the T and thefacts, like he asked me a few
months before, he asked me to docertain things that I didn't
quite understand why I did them.
(07:49):
And unfortunately, I didn't pickup on it.
And a few months later hecommitted suicide, and then I
put it together.
He was actually trying toprepare for that and take care
of certain things that he knew Iwould when he was gone.
So, but you're right, I thinkthat's a good acronym, and I
(08:12):
think we have to be aware ofthat.
One other interesting point togo back to your original
interest from hospice.
So, you know, John Mellencamphas a song called Jack and
Diane.
You know, I think we all knowit.
And the the line that has stuckwith me for 20 years, I don't
even know how old that song is,is life goes on after the thrill
(08:36):
of living is gone.
Right.
So I think if I could sum upwhat you just said, I think we
can get a feeling from peoplewhen they feel that is gone, you
know, almost by the the tone,the way they speak, and all
those things, you know.
Um and I know it's hard.
(08:59):
So when you were dealing withyouth, like what are some things
you would tell parents to do orlook for as an example or act
on, let's say, for anadolescent, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Oh, yeah, and there's two pieces of suicidal
ideation that I try to look for,and um two components.
There's usually a sense ofloneliness, right?
They're alone, they feel alone.
Whether they are alone or not,doesn't matter.
They feel alone, and there'salso a sense of hopelessness,
they've lost hope.
(09:32):
So with adolescents, it's reallytricky because these kids don't
have the life experience to knowthat they can get through these
difficult times, right?
They don't have the experienceto draw on, so they can become
hopeless and very catastrophicfor things that we know as
adults.
So you can you can get throughthat.
(09:53):
So a lot of times we're lookingat things, especially with the
kids, through a lens of an adultwhen we really have to put
ourselves in their shoes andrealize they've never been
through this before.
You know, this breakup, theirgirlfriend just broke up with
them.
And we can say something triviallike, oh, there's lots of fish
in the sea, you're beautiful,you're gonna have lots of
boyfriends or girlfriends.
(10:13):
But in fact, this person, youknow, this was their first love.
This was their first experiencewith all of that, and they truly
believe they lost a lifepartner, even though they're 17,
you know, and so we need to 16,14, we need to really recognize
that their experience is notours, and yet it's valid, and we
(10:36):
must validate what they're goingthrough.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting in my research.
So, you know, in my behaviormodification science and
resiliency have engaged tens ofmillions of lives across the
world, and I've noticed apattern anecdotally, I've never
done deep, deep quantitativeresearch.
(11:01):
With the rise of social media,it's created more loneliness and
isolation, even though yourlikes may go up.
Because, you know, I see thetrend that no one really
understands me as a person.
There's a lot of surfaceconversations going on because
(11:21):
how deep do you get in thatenvironment?
And I think the exposure to somuch going on, the amount of
information, especially for anadolescent or even an adult,
they can't, the brain is notevolving at the rate of
(11:43):
information, and it'soverwhelming for people, like so
they shrink, and it actuallycreates more loneliness.
I found so you know, how do youwhat so what you know the key is
how do we do things as people inthe helping profession to bring
back that connectedness, youknow, in people.
(12:03):
And what have you seen to help,let's say, bring back that
connectiveness to start themmaybe rethinking their past.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Yeah, we've really got to be careful with the
social media and the and thephone and the the blue light,
and you know, it's what it is isthat our breath, our brains are
constantly being stimulated.
There's no rest period, there'sno time to recover, there's no
time to just quiet the brain.
And so the kids areoverstimulated, they're really
(12:37):
overstimulated.
So I always say to a child or anadolescent, after you're on
social media, I want you to sitback and ask yourself, how do I
feel?
Do I feel better or do I feelworse?
Because a lot of times, if we dothat even as adults, right?
Do I feel better or do I feelworse?
Geez, they're in Italy and I'mnot, you know, um, you know, is
(12:58):
my retirement not as good astheirs?
What did they do better than me?
You know, so we start goingthrough, and the same thing with
kids, you know, so we'recomparing ourselves and it's a
natural thing.
And somehow we may walk awayfeeling worse.
And that's what I try to tell.
Because if you say to a child,social media is all bad, they're
gonna be like, I'm not listeningto you.
This is my world.
(13:19):
But you've got to start to say,turn it off when you're starting
to feel bad and give your braina rest, you know, recharge a
little bit, go walk, take anexercise, do something to get
your body and brain connectedagain.
It's not all in your brain.
SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
Yeah, I think to your point, right, the key is
providing other give them ideasof other activities they can do
as opposed to saying what you'redoing is harming you and they
don't believe that, right?
So I think as anyone uh that's aprofessional or parent or
(13:58):
caregiver or anyone even seeinga brother or sister out there,
it's like, what can we do tohelp someone develop a different
schedule routine that they startmaybe changing their outlook in
life?
Uh, how can we get them to formhealthier habits, right?
(14:20):
That they feel better aboutthemselves.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
It's interesting, Bob, with little kids, right,
Susan, there's this wholeconcept of remove and replace.
That if you want children togive something up or take a
break from something, it'seasier to get them to take that
break from one thing if it'sreplaced by another thing.
So rather than to your point,removing the social media or
saying take a break from thesocial media, well, what are we
(14:44):
replacing it with?
I mean, I'm engaging with thatnow.
What are you putting in front ofme that I can also interact with
that's going to be healthier forme, but it's going to replace my
attention.
So it's that whole remove andreplace philosophy.
SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
Uh, totally.
And you know, in particular withthese younger generations
because they're so used to beingstimulated all the time, right?
Um, I remember, well, you know,being bored, you know, these
kids are not bored.
They're not used to being bored.
And so they're looking for thatreplacement.
And so we do have to teach them,whether it's, you know, go ride
(15:18):
your bike, take a walk, takeeven mindfulness, you know, take
a moment to just breathe andrelax.
Um, you know, there's lots ofwe're really doing that in
schools too, like helping kidsreset, uh recalibrate their
emotions and all of that, justyou know, giving them something,
like you said, to replace thatsocial media, which is
(15:39):
constantly stimulating them.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
You know what's interesting.
This is dating myself, but foranyone who hasn't seen an old
movie called To Serve with Lovestarring Sidney Portiguer, you
should do it.
So it took place with these verytroubled kids in England, and he
never taught before, and theyshoved them into the classroom
as okay, you you're never gonnahelp these kids, like they're
(16:06):
never gonna get better.
You know, these were all thederelicts and the school's mind
and the all the kids causingtrouble.
And he took the strategy, Susan,because this is what you're
saying, he taught them lifeskills.
Like, you know, he went over,like, hey, if you're dating,
here's some things to do.
If you're doing this, he tooksome of the boys out for a
(16:30):
boxing lesson, you know, like hereally kind of met them where
they were at.
And then when he asked them todo things, you saw the
reciprocity was fascinating,right?
So it's not sometimes you know,having always a you know, a
clinician work with someone,it's the what can we all do to
(16:55):
meet people where they're at,right?
I'm sure you've seen a lot ofthis.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
You know, I always say that, Bob.
I think that's such a key point.
You know, you do not have to bea psychiatrist or psychologist
or have any training inpsychiatry to save a life.
All you have to do is use yourhumanness, use your compassion,
use your eyes, use your ears,use your joy, you know, uh to
engage them.
(17:19):
Because if you think about thosetwo components, loneliness and
hopelessness, what what he didin that movie was connect,
right?
He connected with them.
And through that connection, heboosted them and also gave them
the belief in themselves.
Like when we think about what'sgoing on with our youth, a lot
of it is um there's a lack ofresiliency, a lack of the
(17:42):
ability to bounce back fromadversity.
Because honestly, quitehonestly, a lot of us, including
myself, as we were raising ourchildren, we fix things for
them, right?
We fix everything for them.
We don't want them to struggle,and so we jump in there and we
fix things.
And kids, when we do too muchfor our children, they start to
(18:04):
lose the ability to believe thatthey can do it for themselves.
And so we are when you'reconnecting with people, you're
telling them, I believe in you,I believe that you have the
strength to get through toughtimes, and I'll partner with
you, but you're not alone.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah, you know, here's an interesting story to
connect to that.
So I met a kid in college, andum, he came from a pretty
wealthy family, and I learned Iended up meeting his father and
grandfather, and he struggledwith a lot of bouts of
(18:44):
depression.
Luckily, today he's was able toovercome that.
But um he said, and Bob, I couldnever live up to what my father
or grandfather did, like in hismind, right?
Like, so he didn't feel and hehe could buy everything.
Now his father happened to benoticed that, so he didn't just
(19:06):
he had to work to get a car, youknow.
I mean, they had a lot of money,but he had to work.
But even though the fatherrecognized that it was to your
point, how do you instillself-worth or how does someone
feel you know worthy, right?
So uh in one of our programs, wemanage um we're the digital care
(19:29):
management for the drugtreatment court in Montana, and
the data showed us fascinatinglyif you were arrested for
substance use uh and put on thecourt treatment program, you had
more relapse and rearrests ifyou have children age seven to
17.
This is fascinating.
So no one else figured that out,but we did with all the data.
(19:51):
So we added more parenting tipsand tracks, and the reason was
they had so much stigma.
In some respects, it was easierto withdraw and not deal with
it.
Well, we added parenting tipsand helped them and helped them
get back to employment.
We saw the relapse and rearrestgo way down.
(20:12):
So I think to your point, ifyou're aware, there are things
you can do to help people, butit may not be the obvious.
You really have to look for it.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the word stigma, Bob,
because I think that's a bigbarrier to, you know, why aren't
we, why are our kids strugglingso much?
And stigma is shame, right?
Shame attached to to havingmental health challenges, to
having issues that people arelike, buck up, you know, just
you know, get strong.
And what we need to do is beable to say exactly that.
(20:43):
As with these parenting tips,you're giving them permission to
not be okay, perfectly okay.
And when you're talking aboutthat that friend of yours that
couldn't live up to his fatheror grandfather's expectations,
you know, that that I have seena lot of, especially in our area
uh uh uh where we live.
There's affluence here.
And I remember sitting in frontof it, uh really a child that
(21:06):
seemed to have it all.
And I say, you know, can youhelp me understand why you're
feeling like you don't want tolive anymore?
And he said, There's nothing I'mgonna do in my life to be able
to be as rich as my father, tobe as successful as my father,
because my father hit a bigduring the financial boom.
And there's just nothing I'mgonna be able to do to so we had
(21:27):
to really work with him toredefine what success is and
what's and what happiness is.
And I think that's a big part ofalso, you know, what's going on
with our kids is that you know,we we define success by
achievement and we push themvery hard for achievement, but
there's other ways of managingand and and and deciding what is
(21:47):
success.
And that um that conversationtook a long time with that boy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
And and Susan, you talked before about facts and
things to look for, signs tolook for.
What would you what would yousay is a good piece of advice
for people who are mayberecognizing signs, but really
not sure and concerned aboutbroaching something that they
might perceive as an issue butisn't, saying the wrong thing,
(22:16):
don't want to, you know, want toapproach this from a positive
place.
What's some advice to handlethose situations when you think
that you're seeing signs?
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Okay, that's a great question.
And I think that is exactly whypeople don't ask the question.
They're afraid to say the wrongthing.
So you don't have to sayanything.
Okay, so what you can do is justvalidate what they're going
through, validate theirfeelings.
No one will move beyond afeeling if they don't feel
heard.
So you say things like, Wow, youknow, if a kid says, you know,
(22:50):
you don't, you know, everyonehates me or there's no reason to
live, instead of you launchinginto there's so many reasons to
live, you say, tell me moreabout that.
Like, wow, that's a hard thingto believe or feel.
Can you tell me more?
Tell me more, are three magicalwords.
And and then just hold quiet tolisten to what they tell you.
(23:13):
And no matter what they say, nomatter what it is, I don't want
to live anymore, I can't standthis, that, and even if you
totally disagree with them, youyou say you validate it, you say
that must be really hard to feelthat way.
And once again, you say, Keep,you know, I appreciate, thank
you for trusting me with thisconversation.
Tell me more, tell me more.
(23:34):
And you keep saying, tell memore, and guess what?
They tell you, because you'rethe first person to ask, most
people start immediatelydebating them, telling them
they're wrong for feeling theway they are, moving them in
another direction.
Can't they can't hold space forthe pain, and that is where we
(23:55):
go wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Yeah, I could tell you, Susan, that's so right on
in our digital therapeutics.
We've engaged tens of millionsof lives, and I could tell you
the strategy that works is youhave to demonstrate some loyalty
or interest first before whetheryou're a clinician or not,
(24:19):
supposedly smart person with theanswers, earns the right to tell
them something, right?
Because they'll turn you off.
So it's understanding wherepeople are at and their
feelings, and you know, justarticulating that to your point
is cathartic for a lot ofpeople, like just finally
expressing it to another humanbeing who's interested could
(24:42):
save a life, you know.
Um, and that's a good stepforward, right?
To help somebody realize maybethere are people who care or
interested and who can work withme who I'm comfortable, you
know, talking to, as opposed to,oh, I see a sign, let me bring
(25:06):
you right away too.
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonnahelp you, you know, we're gonna
cure you or help you.
Like that's not necessarily apath that is gonna work.
SPEAKER_02 (25:18):
Using compassionate curiosity.
Tell me about what you're goingthrough, tell me about your
girlfriend that just broke upwith you, with a heart, with
with love in your voice, withlistening, you know, tell me
about it.
And all of a sudden you becomethe adult that this child wants
to talk to.
You wonder why kids choosetrusted adults.
We ask kids this all the time.
(25:40):
What is it that you look for ina trusted adult?
And they say, someone wholistens without judgment,
without judgment.
And that's what I'm looking for.
The minute we start to judge ordecide that, you know, that
tattoo wasn't a good idea, youknow, though tell me why you got
the tattoo.
What does it mean to you?
(26:01):
You know, there's a differencein conversation.
So if you're not judging themand you're listening, they will
talk.
They will talk.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
And Susan, actually reversing the lens here, we
actually had a uh pre-submittedquestion when we talked about
this being subject matter thatwe would be talking about with
you from a provider from ahealthcare professional who
asked how they can take care oftheir own mental health when
they're supporting other peoplewho are in crisis.
(26:32):
Any advice for them?
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Well, I I walk yeah, I walk that walk every day.
Um, you know, I what I I tunein, you know, for myself.
I you know, like I told you,I've had three, I've had three
suicides in the last threeweeks, right?
So what do I do?
I'm working with people.
I I pay attention to how I'mdoing.
I look at my how am I sleeping?
(26:55):
Uh, don't I try to pay closerattention to how I'm eating.
Uh, I start to this morning, Idid some meditation and yoga,
which is not normally my thing.
I'll usually go for a walk, butI I needed the quiet in the
mind.
You know, just paying attentionand giving yourself the one
thing I think, you know, whenpeople think about self-care,
they think I gotta go for amassage or I gotta go to a spa.
(27:15):
No, you don't.
You just need to tune into a fewminutes throughout the day to
take care of yourself.
Did I drink water today?
Did I talk to a friend?
You know, um, can I get home intime to see my kids tonight?
You know, all those littlethings that are self-care.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah, and just to add one other element for fun,
because it's about laughter isthe best medicine.
You know, sometimes we all needa little bit of a break from
doing all the things.
So I would say, Shelly, toanswer your question, uh the the
TV show Shrinking is hysterical.
It's about three psychiatristswho have tremendous issues in
(27:56):
life themselves.
And it stars Harrison board, andit's hysterical.
So, you know, but we did that.
We uh Susan, we launched, we'rewe're I'm sorry, we're just
about to launch the first everpreventative uh resiliency
program with actually built-incrises drills in advance for
(28:17):
police, firefighter, EMT, andthen we're gonna add military.
And um one of the things we alsohave in there is kind of a have
fun, laughter sex, like what areyour peers doing to break things
up from a funny way or lifestyleor get people to smile, right?
I I think that could be missingin today's day and age with all
(28:41):
these things, but I think it'sto Susan's point about giving
your brain a break.
You know, if you're laughing, ifyou're having a good time,
you're giving your brain abreak, you know.
So I would strongly suggest thattry people try to fit that in
where you can.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Oh, I love that.
I love that, you know, andpeople say to me all the time,
you're always smiling.
Well, sometimes I'm smiling, youknow, a genuine smile.
Sometimes I'm faking it, but uhsometimes, you know, you fake it
till you make it kind of thing.
But laughing for me is is reallyworks for me, you know.
Like you say, putting yourselfin front of a funny show at the
(29:16):
end of a long, hard day.
I never go into a heavy show.
I certainly don't turn on thenews too much.
I do things like that, puttingmyself in front of lighter
moments, uh, or joyful moments,you know, joyful moments.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah, and just to bring in the cognitive
neuroscience side of that,there's definitely endorphins,
there's definitely various typesof hormonal issues.
There's electrical signals thathappen when you're laughing and
smiling, and your d your brainis in another place in time.
It's a fascinating thing.
(29:50):
So, yeah, comedy works.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
It does.
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
For sure, it does.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Okay, I was just gonna really, this is such
unique perspective.
Like I said, it's heavy, right,Susan?
I give so much respect andcredit to you for dealing with
this day to day and learning howto help others and help
yourself, really.
It's been wonderful sharing thiswith you this time and hearing
(30:17):
your perspective.
And just understanding theseconversations aren't always
easy.
And we need to see the signs andlisten to what people are saying
and tune in with ourselves, headcheck ourselves and broach those
conversations because just asyou said, it's it's not the
wrong thing.
It's being there for people andrecognizing that they really
(30:39):
need somebody to talk to andbeing that outlet for that.
And these are really, reallyimportant tools and tips that
you've given us today.
And combined with that for ourlisteners, if you or somebody
you know is in crisis, pleasecall or text 988 to connect with
the Suicide and Crisis Lifelineright now.
And if you want to learn moreabout GOMO Health programs that
(31:03):
Bob was speaking about thatsupport behavioral and emotional
resilience and build that inindividuals who participate,
visit our website atgomohealth.com.
If you enjoyed what you heardhere today, please subscribe and
submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode and our others.
And for more expert insightsinto the world of healthcare,
(31:25):
visit us at gomohealth.com andbe sure to tune in on Thursday
to catch our freshest content.
Thank you all for joining us andthank you for listening.
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