September 5, 2024 • 20 mins
Listen to part two of our two-part series on a brain health approach to addiction treatment with insights from several experts who uncover the secrets behind effective recovery strategies. Explore scalable solutions and forward-thinking approaches designed to support anyone struggling with substance use and mental health as well solutions for employers and employees.
Listen and Learn:
- The connection between substance use and mental health problems and why integrated care is essential for better outcomes
- The impact of technology and how 24/7 support is essential in recovery to prevent relapses
- Innovative digital solutions that are changing the landscape of addiction recovery
Watch Part One if you haven't already!
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Dave Williams, owner and host of iCRV Radio
Featured Guests
- Annette Redding, Director of Peer Support and Crisis Response Services for Rimrock Foundation
- Charley Curie, Presidential Appointee to lead the Substance Use and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
- Dave Drap, Workplace Wellness Expert at GoMo Health
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive alerts of new weekly episodes and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to Brain Training everybody.
A program, a series that'sdedicated entirely to the brain
and body connectivity andgetting the desired results that
we want through brain trainingand Bob.
This is an exciting topic witha wide range of perspective.
Just so everybody knows, we'lljust reboot this.
(00:29):
Annette Redding joins us fromMontana.
She has had a history ofaddictive behavior but has risen
above and is now actuallydirector of peer support and
crisis response services atRimrock Foundation in Billings,
montana.
Also joining us is CharlieCurie has his own consulting
(00:50):
firm where he, after his stintin the Bush administration as
head of SAMHSA, the SubstanceAbuse and Mental Health Services
Administration, he now consultsnational and international
leaders in government andbusiness on mental health,
substance abuse, the issues ofhealth care, and a fascinating
(01:15):
input here in this episode ofBrain Training and rounding out
our troika of guests is DaveDrapp.
He's the Chief Growth Officerfor GOMO Health and works on the
front lines with theirtherapeutic services that are
served up digitally.
Bob, but before we kind ofbring back the group of guests,
you want to have some fun.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah you know your brain is so critical and
for people going through alltypes of addictive behavior, you
know, and how to create newpositive habits, there's a lot
you could do.
You could take a walk in nature, there's breathing, meditations
, music and taking a day at atime, feeling good about little
(01:54):
things in life and some of those, is challenging yourself and
your brain.
So I have a question for Dave afun little brain game.
Okay, I'm ready.
So a man describes hisdaughters.
They're all blonde but two.
All brunette but two allredheads but two.
How many daughters does he have?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
All but two.
All but two, all but two six.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Three a blonde, a redhead and a brunette.
Three a blonde, a redhead and abrunette.
So I don't know if anyone elsecould have gotten that oh man
Princeton is going to take mydiploma away.
Right, and you know, by the way, in a future brain training
(02:42):
we're going to do, laughter isthe best medicine.
So you know, we all need a goodlaugh, we need a brain break
and there's a lot of therapeuticvalue to even smiling, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
All right, so where do we want to start?
Let's launch back into bringingour guests into the equation.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
So I just want to finish offwith you know what Charlie said
in the crossover between mentaland substance use and the effect
on its organizations and peopleand ask Dave I know, dave,
you're involved in that GOMOHealth and National Initiative
and we've launched one of thefirst tools for employers to
(03:21):
help with a psychological safeenvironment.
It's a big issue before peopleignored it, but it affects all
types of things in society andfamily.
So talk a little bit about whatwe're doing.
I know we just did a pilot withthe Mental Health Association,
so talk a little bit about whatwe're doing to help employers
(03:44):
and employees and their families.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
We have a three-pronged approach, so we
have a specific focus in threedifferent areas.
We focus on workplace andhaving the employer group be a
recovery-friendly workplace.
So we provide training andcurriculum and supervisory
guidelines and so on to thedirect supervisors of the direct
(04:10):
reports for the employees,really throughout the entire
organization.
The second area of focus is thedaily living area of focus,
where we're helping the personor the individual that's in
recovery and providing themresources.
Sometimes they're digital,sometimes they're physical in
nature, sometimes they'reincluded in another workplace
(04:32):
benefit.
And then the third area offocus is we do offer a court
treatment program we found inmany of the different areas,
(04:58):
like manufacturing orconstruction and so on, having
and keeping and retaining reallygreat outstanding workforces
sometimes requires someadditional trainings and
guidelines and so on.
So our initial launch has beenextremely effective and we're
doing a really nice job ofmeeting especially the
individual where they are thatparticular day yeah, so they
might.
Yeah, go ahead yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So talking about that , annette, back to you.
You've went from uh, I believeyou even did a.
Didn't you do a little stint ina jail or prison or something
like that as well in the courseof the career, or no?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yes, I did.
I spent, I had several littlestints in jail, and then my last
stint was about eight months injail, which was more than I
ever wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So it's fascinating.
Now you have a steady job.
You're a supervisor.
I think you love what you do,so talk about yourself and what
you've seen.
I know in the program thatwe're running, we got 50% of the
people back to full-timeemployment.
But what does that mean topeople, both yourself and others
(05:55):
, in terms of their feelings ofbelonging and their changing,
their rumination to positiveoutlook or their connection to
whether they could be a goodparent or person in society?
What is, what does that mean topeople when you hold a steady
job like you have?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I'll tell you, you know, when you go from a place
of just not being able to showup for anything or anybody in
your life, you know you can'tshow up to a job, you can't show
up for your family and prettysoon you start showing up, you
start making it to work.
Every day you collect yourfirst paycheck and your second
paycheck.
I can't.
(06:37):
The self-esteem that's built in, that is invaluable when you
start to realize that you canstand on your own two feet again
.
And I remember getting my firsthouse, my first place that I
was renting.
And it's like one day I wastaking my rent check to the
(06:59):
landlord's office and I realizedI had successfully paid rent on
time for a full year and I juststarted sobbing.
Now that seems like a sillything.
Today I have a house payment.
It's like no big deal, I'mdoing what I should have always
been doing.
But in that moment I realizedlike, oh my God, I'm
self-sufficient, I can count onmyself again.
(07:22):
And you start to build trustwithin yourself.
I mean, there is nothing worsethan you know, feeling like you
can't trust anybody, but youcertainly can't trust yourself.
And so you begin to trustyourself again and you can trust
that you know this recoverything it's working and you know
I'm paying taxes again and I'vegot a car and I've got insurance
(07:47):
and I have a valid driver'slicense.
I mean, that's a big deal for aperson who's lost the ability
to do all those things.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, and it's interesting In my world of human
motivation, activation,resiliency, annette, there's
eight factors that go intosomeone's believability of their
worth and willingness to dothings, and the two biggest ones
are trust and credibility.
So trust is I will not putmyself in harm's way, and
credibility is I can further mycause.
(08:15):
And if you could accomplishboth of those, boy, you can
really almost do anything.
But a lot of that to thediscussion are things that
You're learning, both intreatment and on your own and
your lived environment through adigital tool like GOMO.
So, charlie, I know there can'tbe enough providers in the
(08:39):
world to handle all the folkswith mental health and substance
use and a lot of them feeloverworked and overburdened and
like they can't accomplish itoverburdened and like they can't
accomplish it.
So how is it?
How important is it to start tofigure out how to help people
in their own lived environment,outside of you know, a session
(09:00):
and treatment, and using toolsthat can scale like give us your
perspective of the ability ofproviders to keep up.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Well, it's essential that today, people find ways of.
Well, it's essential that today,people find ways of finding the
support they need to be able tostay consistent with their plan
, their treatment plan, theirlife plan.
And when it comes to theworkforce, we are experiencing a
crisis in both mental healthand substance use.
(09:28):
We don't have enough people toprovide the care.
Once you find someone toprovide the care, you know we're
talking very heavy caseloadsand that type of thing.
So to be able to have toolsavailable treatment extenders,
if you will in order to givepeople support that they need
Annette's a peer supportprofessional and peers are part
(09:52):
of the solution, but, again,having tools to help you stay
connected with the folks you'reserving 24-7, is essential.
We need to think in terms ofsubstance use disorders, people
with serious mental illness, andserious mental illnesses are
chronic conditions.
(10:13):
So we need to think of ways ofadhering to a treatment plan,
adhering to one's recovery plan,and we just don't have enough
people available face-to-face oreven on the phone, to be
constantly available to someone.
So the digital tools that areavailable today are game
changers in order to bridge thatgap.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Hey, I'm going to serve up one question for all
three of you, same question forall three of you, and then we're
going to take a little bit of amusical interlude and Bob's
going to take us to the closehere, the close here.
(10:56):
But so this is the question Inyour respective areas, charlie,
and then Dave, and then Annettewhat is the one thing that you
wish your clients, or yourprospects, or the people you're
dealing with, the people on theother side of the table, what's
the one thing you wish theywould get a whole lot faster.
What's the one thing missing?
So so, charlie, you know, asyou're talking to international
(11:16):
or national business orgovernment leaders, dave, as
you're dealing with companies,and and Annette, as you're
dealing with people struggling.
Okay, what's this the onethings?
Because this is going to kindof give us the whole continuum
here of what we need to focus onwhat's the one thing that you
wish they would get faster?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
I wish that especially providers and folks
that are providing service couldget faster, evidence-based care
available and the ability alsoto stay in touch with the people
they're serving and beavailable for the person who
needs them the most.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Perfect, dave.
I think that most front andcenter for me would be a renewed
focus from an employerperspective on the recognition
that their most valuable assetwill be and always will be their
employees and their workforce.
If we could get a renewed focuson that, that would help us out
(12:16):
greatly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Annette.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I would just say a connection.
A connection and a sense thatthey're not going to do this
alone.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Fantastic.
That's meaningful in so manyways.
Thank you all, Bob.
How about some music, man?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, we're going to play a song and, annette, I
think you could have wrote theselyrics, so everyone just pay
attention to the words in thesong, and then I'm going to ask
you some questions about it.
Yeah, perfect, crawling in myskin.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
These wounds.
They will not heal.
Fear is how I fall, Confusingwhat is real?
(13:41):
There's something inside methat pulls beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Consuming, confusing.
This lack of self-control, Ifear, is never ending
Controlling.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
I can't seem To find myself.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Again, my walls are closing in Not a sense of
confidence.
I'm convinced that it's justtoo much pressure to take.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
I've felt this way before.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So insecure.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Wow, very powerful, and I think your comment that
the three of you made verysuccinctly to Dave's question
was really awesome.
Anyway, that song was writtenby a guy named Chris Bennington
from Lincoln Park.
He wrote it.
He had a lot of substanceissues.
(14:35):
Unfortunately, he wasn't ableto overcome those.
On July 20th 2017, at age 41,he died of suicide by hanging,
and it just goes to show you howhe started.
Is that this is a real disorder?
It's a real in people's mindsand we have to help them create
(15:00):
a new reality, and we could dothat through a better brain-body
connection.
So, annette, on your end, youknow this is the line that
especially hits home for meafter listening to your story.
All of it, but it goes.
There's something inside methat pulls me beneath the
surface.
The lack of self-control, Ifear, is never ending.
(15:23):
You know what's your responseto that and how have you
experienced that, that and whatdo you think made you overcome
that?
But tell me how you experiencedthat line.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I mean, that is an accurate representation of a
person that is caught inaddiction.
It is certainly an accuraterepresentation for me and I
think it really just boiled downto this belief that I mean,
just like the song says, itdoesn't matter if I try recovery
.
I've tried it before.
I've tried this on my own.
(15:56):
I've had so many failedattempts at trying to change my
life that I don't know why Iwould even try anymore.
And I think about you know, Ithink about the gentleman that
wrote that song, and oftentimeswe get to a place where it's
like I cannot live like thisanymore.
The drugs, the alcohol, alcoholit's not working.
(16:17):
I'm in so much pain andeventually you get in so much
pain that you just cannot eventake another breath, feeling
like that right.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So, yeah, it's very intensive and hopefully this
brain training show is paintinga picture of reality and a
picture of hope, right?
A picture of reality and apicture of hope for everybody.
And, annette, just tell usabout real quickly your life now
.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Oh, my goodness, my life is very full now.
You know.
I'm glad that I didn't fallvictim to that lie that it that
change wasn't possible, becausechange is absolutely possible,
and and while it takesdedication and, and there's a
little funny saying that goesaround the recovery community is
that you only have to changeone thing and that's everything.
That's a little, that's true,right.
(17:12):
And so today, you know, I havemy children back in my life.
I have two middle schoolersthat live with me, my other, my
three oldest daughters, are.
They've graduated, gone on tocollege, and some have started
their own families.
I have the.
I mean just, it's a blessing.
(17:34):
I've gotten to come back to thesame treatment center that
helped save my life.
I get to direct a team ofamazing, amazing people and help
grow and guide them.
Well, we all put every effortin every day to help save people
from that same disaster, and soI wake up every day honored and
(17:57):
blessed at my role in thiscommunity, a community that I
once took from.
I get to give back to it daily.
It's just, it's a blessing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's awesome.
By the way, when I met you alittle while ago, you look 30 in
that, so I know you look great,charlie.
Any closing?
You're welcome, charlie.
Any closing thoughts on yourend?
Any?
Speaker 5 (18:20):
yes, I'm just listening to an editor story and
, of course, where she is todayI there are many dynamics that
play that we discussed today,but I keep honing in on the role
isolation plays andperpetuating addiction and
perpetuating relapse and justhow critical it is for people at
the right, at their point ofneed, to know they're not alone
(18:43):
and to have a voice, like net,for example, available to them.
To have content available tothem in that moment of need is
so critical yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
one comment on that in my world of digital
behavioral therapeutics ispeople actually are 50% more
honest talking to our digitalbot than they are a human.
It's difficult to look a humanin the face and say I'm
depressed, I may kill myself, Imay do this, but they tell us
(19:14):
that.
And I think Annette evenexperienced that at Rimrock,
where the counselor learned byinput into the GOMO system what
the people were really feeling,because they weren't telling the
counselor.
So that was fascinating.
And, dave, any last thoughts onyour end?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
I would just share Charlie's thoughts On my end.
It's been very inspirational tohear all of these conversations
and I know full well that I'min the right place at the right
time.
And you know, we're going totry to change somebody's life
yet today and then do it againtomorrow.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Hey to our guests, thanks so much for sharing your
perspective, your insights, yourstories.
I also want to encourage ourlisteners just to take the time
for brain health and fitness.
It can do wonders.
Happy brain training everybody.
Welcome back to Brain Training everybody.
A program, a series that'sdedicated entirely to the brain
and body connectivity andgetting the desired results that
we want through brain trainingand Bob.
This is an exciting topic witha wide range of perspective.
Just so everybody knows, we'lljust reboot this.
(00:29):
Annette Redding joins us fromMontana.
She has had a history ofaddictive behavior but has risen
above and is now actuallydirector of peer support and
crisis response services atRimrock Foundation in Billings,
montana.
Also joining us is CharlieCurie has his own consulting
(00:50):
firm where he, after his stintin the Bush administration as
head of SAMHSA, the SubstanceAbuse and Mental Health Services
Administration, he now consultsnational and international
leaders in government andbusiness on mental health,
substance abuse, the issues ofhealth care, and a fascinating
(01:15):
input here in this episode ofBrain Training and rounding out
our troika of guests is DaveDrapp.
He's the Chief Growth Officerfor GOMO Health and works on the
front lines with theirtherapeutic services that are
served up digitally.
Bob, but before we kind ofbring back the group of guests,
you want to have some fun.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah you know your brain is so critical and
for people going through alltypes of addictive behavior, you
know, and how to create newpositive habits, there's a lot
you could do.
You could take a walk in nature, there's breathing, meditations
, music and taking a day at atime, feeling good about little
(01:54):
things in life and some of those, is challenging yourself and
your brain.
So I have a question for Dave afun little brain game.
Okay, I'm ready.
So a man describes hisdaughters.
They're all blonde but two.
All brunette but two allredheads but two.
How many daughters does he have?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
All but two.
All but two, all but two six.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Three a blonde, a redhead and a brunette.
Three a blonde, a redhead and abrunette.
So I don't know if anyone elsecould have gotten that oh man
Princeton is going to take mydiploma away.
Right, and you know, by the way, in a future brain training
(02:42):
we're going to do, laughter isthe best medicine.
So you know, we all need a goodlaugh, we need a brain break
and there's a lot of therapeuticvalue to even smiling, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
All right, so where do we want to start?
Let's launch back into bringingour guests into the equation.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
So I just want to finish offwith you know what Charlie said
in the crossover between mentaland substance use and the effect
on its organizations and peopleand ask Dave I know, dave,
you're involved in that GOMOHealth and National Initiative
and we've launched one of thefirst tools for employers to
(03:21):
help with a psychological safeenvironment.
It's a big issue before peopleignored it, but it affects all
types of things in society andfamily.
So talk a little bit about whatwe're doing.
I know we just did a pilot withthe Mental Health Association,
so talk a little bit about whatwe're doing to help employers
(03:44):
and employees and their families.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
We have a three-pronged approach, so we
have a specific focus in threedifferent areas.
We focus on workplace andhaving the employer group be a
recovery-friendly workplace.
So we provide training andcurriculum and supervisory
guidelines and so on to thedirect supervisors of the direct
(04:10):
reports for the employees,really throughout the entire
organization.
The second area of focus is thedaily living area of focus,
where we're helping the personor the individual that's in
recovery and providing themresources.
Sometimes they're digital,sometimes they're physical in
nature, sometimes they'reincluded in another workplace
(04:32):
benefit.
And then the third area offocus is we do offer a court
treatment program we found inmany of the different areas,
(04:58):
like manufacturing orconstruction and so on, having
and keeping and retaining reallygreat outstanding workforces
sometimes requires someadditional trainings and
guidelines and so on.
So our initial launch has beenextremely effective and we're
doing a really nice job ofmeeting especially the
individual where they are thatparticular day yeah, so they
might.
Yeah, go ahead yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So talking about that , annette, back to you.
You've went from uh, I believeyou even did a.
Didn't you do a little stint ina jail or prison or something
like that as well in the courseof the career, or no?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yes, I did.
I spent, I had several littlestints in jail, and then my last
stint was about eight months injail, which was more than I
ever wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So it's fascinating.
Now you have a steady job.
You're a supervisor.
I think you love what you do,so talk about yourself and what
you've seen.
I know in the program thatwe're running, we got 50% of the
people back to full-timeemployment.
But what does that mean topeople, both yourself and others
(05:55):
, in terms of their feelings ofbelonging and their changing,
their rumination to positiveoutlook or their connection to
whether they could be a goodparent or person in society?
What is, what does that mean topeople when you hold a steady
job like you have?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I'll tell you, you know, when you go from a place
of just not being able to showup for anything or anybody in
your life, you know you can'tshow up to a job, you can't show
up for your family and prettysoon you start showing up, you
start making it to work.
Every day you collect yourfirst paycheck and your second
paycheck.
I can't.
(06:37):
The self-esteem that's built in, that is invaluable when you
start to realize that you canstand on your own two feet again
.
And I remember getting my firsthouse, my first place that I
was renting.
And it's like one day I wastaking my rent check to the
(06:59):
landlord's office and I realizedI had successfully paid rent on
time for a full year and I juststarted sobbing.
Now that seems like a sillything.
Today I have a house payment.
It's like no big deal, I'mdoing what I should have always
been doing.
But in that moment I realizedlike, oh my God, I'm
self-sufficient, I can count onmyself again.
(07:22):
And you start to build trustwithin yourself.
I mean, there is nothing worsethan you know, feeling like you
can't trust anybody, but youcertainly can't trust yourself.
And so you begin to trustyourself again and you can trust
that you know this recoverything it's working and you know
I'm paying taxes again and I'vegot a car and I've got insurance
(07:47):
and I have a valid driver'slicense.
I mean, that's a big deal for aperson who's lost the ability
to do all those things.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, and it's interesting In my world of human
motivation, activation,resiliency, annette, there's
eight factors that go intosomeone's believability of their
worth and willingness to dothings, and the two biggest ones
are trust and credibility.
So trust is I will not putmyself in harm's way, and
credibility is I can further mycause.
(08:15):
And if you could accomplishboth of those, boy, you can
really almost do anything.
But a lot of that to thediscussion are things that
You're learning, both intreatment and on your own and
your lived environment through adigital tool like GOMO.
So, charlie, I know there can'tbe enough providers in the
(08:39):
world to handle all the folkswith mental health and substance
use and a lot of them feeloverworked and overburdened and
like they can't accomplish itoverburdened and like they can't
accomplish it.
So how is it?
How important is it to start tofigure out how to help people
in their own lived environment,outside of you know, a session
(09:00):
and treatment, and using toolsthat can scale like give us your
perspective of the ability ofproviders to keep up.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Well, it's essential that today, people find ways of.
Well, it's essential that today,people find ways of finding the
support they need to be able tostay consistent with their plan
, their treatment plan, theirlife plan.
And when it comes to theworkforce, we are experiencing a
crisis in both mental healthand substance use.
(09:28):
We don't have enough people toprovide the care.
Once you find someone toprovide the care, you know we're
talking very heavy caseloadsand that type of thing.
So to be able to have toolsavailable treatment extenders,
if you will in order to givepeople support that they need
Annette's a peer supportprofessional and peers are part
(09:52):
of the solution, but, again,having tools to help you stay
connected with the folks you'reserving 24-7, is essential.
We need to think in terms ofsubstance use disorders, people
with serious mental illness, andserious mental illnesses are
chronic conditions.
(10:13):
So we need to think of ways ofadhering to a treatment plan,
adhering to one's recovery plan,and we just don't have enough
people available face-to-face oreven on the phone, to be
constantly available to someone.
So the digital tools that areavailable today are game
changers in order to bridge thatgap.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Hey, I'm going to serve up one question for all
three of you, same question forall three of you, and then we're
going to take a little bit of amusical interlude and Bob's
going to take us to the closehere, the close here.
(10:56):
But so this is the question Inyour respective areas, charlie,
and then Dave, and then Annettewhat is the one thing that you
wish your clients, or yourprospects, or the people you're
dealing with, the people on theother side of the table, what's
the one thing you wish theywould get a whole lot faster.
What's the one thing missing?
So so, charlie, you know, asyou're talking to international
(11:16):
or national business orgovernment leaders, dave, as
you're dealing with companies,and and Annette, as you're
dealing with people struggling.
Okay, what's this the onethings?
Because this is going to kindof give us the whole continuum
here of what we need to focus onwhat's the one thing that you
wish they would get faster?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
I wish that especially providers and folks
that are providing service couldget faster, evidence-based care
available and the ability alsoto stay in touch with the people
they're serving and beavailable for the person who
needs them the most.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Perfect, dave.
I think that most front andcenter for me would be a renewed
focus from an employerperspective on the recognition
that their most valuable assetwill be and always will be their
employees and their workforce.
If we could get a renewed focuson that, that would help us out
(12:16):
greatly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Annette.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I would just say a connection.
A connection and a sense thatthey're not going to do this
alone.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Fantastic.
That's meaningful in so manyways.
Thank you all, Bob.
How about some music, man?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, we're going to play a song and, annette, I
think you could have wrote theselyrics, so everyone just pay
attention to the words in thesong, and then I'm going to ask
you some questions about it.
Yeah, perfect, crawling in myskin.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
These wounds.
They will not heal.
Fear is how I fall, Confusingwhat is real?
(13:41):
There's something inside methat pulls beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Consuming, confusing.
This lack of self-control, Ifear, is never ending
Controlling.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
I can't seem To find myself.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Again, my walls are closing in Not a sense of
confidence.
I'm convinced that it's justtoo much pressure to take.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
I've felt this way before.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So insecure.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Wow, very powerful, and I think your comment that
the three of you made verysuccinctly to Dave's question
was really awesome.
Anyway, that song was writtenby a guy named Chris Bennington
from Lincoln Park.
He wrote it.
He had a lot of substanceissues.
(14:35):
Unfortunately, he wasn't ableto overcome those.
On July 20th 2017, at age 41,he died of suicide by hanging,
and it just goes to show you howhe started.
Is that this is a real disorder?
It's a real in people's mindsand we have to help them create
(15:00):
a new reality, and we could dothat through a better brain-body
connection.
So, annette, on your end, youknow this is the line that
especially hits home for meafter listening to your story.
All of it, but it goes.
There's something inside methat pulls me beneath the
surface.
The lack of self-control, Ifear, is never ending.
(15:23):
You know what's your responseto that and how have you
experienced that, that and whatdo you think made you overcome
that?
But tell me how you experiencedthat line.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I mean, that is an accurate representation of a
person that is caught inaddiction.
It is certainly an accuraterepresentation for me and I
think it really just boiled downto this belief that I mean,
just like the song says, itdoesn't matter if I try recovery
.
I've tried it before.
I've tried this on my own.
(15:56):
I've had so many failedattempts at trying to change my
life that I don't know why Iwould even try anymore.
And I think about you know, Ithink about the gentleman that
wrote that song, and oftentimeswe get to a place where it's
like I cannot live like thisanymore.
The drugs, the alcohol, alcoholit's not working.
(16:17):
I'm in so much pain andeventually you get in so much
pain that you just cannot eventake another breath, feeling
like that right.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So, yeah, it's very intensive and hopefully this
brain training show is paintinga picture of reality and a
picture of hope, right?
A picture of reality and apicture of hope for everybody.
And, annette, just tell usabout real quickly your life now
.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Oh, my goodness, my life is very full now.
You know.
I'm glad that I didn't fallvictim to that lie that it that
change wasn't possible, becausechange is absolutely possible,
and and while it takesdedication and, and there's a
little funny saying that goesaround the recovery community is
that you only have to changeone thing and that's everything.
That's a little, that's true,right.
(17:12):
And so today, you know, I havemy children back in my life.
I have two middle schoolersthat live with me, my other, my
three oldest daughters, are.
They've graduated, gone on tocollege, and some have started
their own families.
I have the.
I mean just, it's a blessing.
(17:34):
I've gotten to come back to thesame treatment center that
helped save my life.
I get to direct a team ofamazing, amazing people and help
grow and guide them.
Well, we all put every effortin every day to help save people
from that same disaster, and soI wake up every day honored and
(17:57):
blessed at my role in thiscommunity, a community that I
once took from.
I get to give back to it daily.
It's just, it's a blessing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's awesome.
By the way, when I met you alittle while ago, you look 30 in
that, so I know you look great,charlie.
Any closing?
You're welcome, charlie.
Any closing thoughts on yourend?
Any?
Speaker 5 (18:20):
yes, I'm just listening to an editor story and
, of course, where she is todayI there are many dynamics that
play that we discussed today,but I keep honing in on the role
isolation plays andperpetuating addiction and
perpetuating relapse and justhow critical it is for people at
the right, at their point ofneed, to know they're not alone
(18:43):
and to have a voice, like net,for example, available to them.
To have content available tothem in that moment of need is
so critical yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
one comment on that in my world of digital
behavioral therapeutics ispeople actually are 50% more
honest talking to our digitalbot than they are a human.
It's difficult to look a humanin the face and say I'm
depressed, I may kill myself, Imay do this, but they tell us
(19:14):
that.
And I think Annette evenexperienced that at Rimrock,
where the counselor learned byinput into the GOMO system what
the people were really feeling,because they weren't telling the
counselor.
So that was fascinating.
And, dave, any last thoughts onyour end?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
I would just share Charlie's thoughts On my end.
It's been very inspirational tohear all of these conversations
and I know full well that I'min the right place at the right
time.
And you know, we're going totry to change somebody's life
yet today and then do it againtomorrow.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Hey to our guests, thanks so much for sharing your
perspective, your insights, yourstories.
I also want to encourage ourlisteners just to take the time
for brain health and fitness.
It can do wonders.
Happy brain training everybody.
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