August 20, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when healthcare messages compete with an endless stream of digital noise? In today's information-saturated world, 62% of adults report feeling overwhelmed by health information alone. How do we break through?
Cassandra Cousineau, healthcare content and engagement expert with over two decades of experience, joins hosts Bob Gold and Shelley Schoenfeld to tackle this critical challenge. Every message presents an opportunity to build trust, spark communication, and help people feel truly understood in today's cluttered healthcare environment.
This episode explores practical strategies for cutting through noise to deliver meaningful, personalized healthcare messages that drive engagement and action.
Listen and Learn:
- The biggest challenges in healthcare communication, and why empathy and personalization matter more than generic information
- How to create micro-learning moments paired with actionable practices
- Ways to balance technology with human connection to avoid depersonalizing care
- Why people who feel seen and heard are 5-7x more likely to engage in their care
Guests
- Cassandra Cousineau, Strategic Content and Engagement Expert
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Strategist, GoMo Health
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive alerts of new episodes, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I really do believe that every message is an
opportunity to build trust,spark communication and help
people feel truly understood.
My number one role is as a mom.
I have two young people who I'mtrusted to guide through this
world, which can be a littlecrazy at times, but it governs
(00:26):
my perspective on how importanthealth and wellness information
is.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work or care for ourselves
and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist at
GOMO Health.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth care, what it means, why
it matters and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Healthcare is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I arejoined by Cassandra Cousineau,
(01:12):
healthcare content andengagement expert, and we'll be
diving into how to cut throughthe clutter to get your message
heard.
Whether you're talking topatients, employees, providers
or anyone.
Really, everybody's inbox andattention span is really full
and there's a big competition toget your voice heard, your
message received and cut throughthe clutter of what is in front
(01:36):
of everybody today.
So the question we're reallytalking about today is how can
you effectively bypass all thatnoise to resonate with your
audience in an impactful andengaging way?
So we're going to start bytalking about the state of
health care, communication andmessaging and then move on to
proven strategies that work tocut through everything that's in
(01:57):
front of health care consumerstoday.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I'm excited to have Nevada Cassandra on.
She's one of my favorite people.
Cassandra, tell us a little bitabout yourself and what
motivates you.
Maybe slip in some unknown fact.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, so I bring about over two decades of
experience in healthcare,spanning operations, data and
digital communications, and Ihave a background as a
journalist.
I've actually spent a lot oftime.
You said an interesting fact.
I've spent a lot of timetalking to combat sports
athletes individuals who areboxers or MMA fighters and what
(02:41):
I've been able to do is kind ofblend analytical thinking and
storytelling to turn complexhealth topics into content
that's not just informative butpersonal and actionable, and I
really do believe that everymessage is an opportunity to
build trust, spark communicationand help people feel truly
(03:03):
understood.
You know, my number one role isas a mom.
I have two young people who I'mtrusted to guide through this
world, which can be a littlecrazy at times, but it governs
my perspective and how importanthealth and wellness information
is.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Got it.
Thanks, cassandra.
So let's kick off.
We know in today's world,there's a lot that's in front of
people that are just competingfor their attention.
There's world events and newsand things, of course, related
to politics, and all kinds ofdifferent messages that are
thrown at us every day.
(03:43):
We all know we even get onlineand the thing that we're
actually intending to look foris all of a sudden forgotten
because there's a million otherthings competing for our
attention when we go online.
So let's start with in thehealthcare environment,
cassandra, what would you say isthe biggest challenge?
What's not working?
What do we need to fix when itcomes to really engaging with
(04:06):
somebody, getting theirattention and getting our
message across?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, you mentioned kind of the digital world and in
communicating online, andthat's the big challenge is that
we often communicate at peopleand not with them.
Healthcare tends to these daysprioritize systems over
individuals, which leads to, Ithink, generic messaging and
that misses the mark.
(04:31):
When you don't acknowledgesomeone's lived experience,
especially when we're talkingabout their social and emotional
needs, it's really hard tobuild trust in, ultimately,
engagement.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You know one interesting point to support
that a lot of healthcare hasbecome transactional because
there's so much need, not enoughproviders.
And, to Cassandra's point, evenif there were enough providers,
99% of the time you're athomework and play.
So you know how do we turn atransactional healthcare system
(05:07):
which is not proving to producepositive outcomes to a system
where it engages you on apersonal basis in your homework
and play.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, it's so true.
It's like um.
It's info overload is out there, um and the the information
isn't necessarily immediatelypertinent to the person, it's
just general for everybody.
So not only are you competingto get your message across with
all the other noise that's outthere, but if people don't feel
that you're directly talking tothem, how are you going to get
(05:43):
their attention Right?
It's um.
I came across a stat recentlythat from the Health Information
National Trends Survey hintsand they give us this hint that
62 percent of adults are feelingoverwhelmed by all of the
information that is presented tothem.
So, cassandra, what would yousay would be like a recommended
(06:05):
strategy to make your messagestand out, and what do you do
tactically to employ thatstrategy in a message you want
to get across?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I think the number one thing is use empathy and
create a one-on-one conversation, speaking to people, not
programs.
So one of the behavioralexperience principles, I think,
is activation through shareddecision making.
Something as simple as askinghow are you feeling today?
(06:38):
And also inviting maybe athumbs up or a thumbs down
giving the person agency, maybea thumbs up or a thumbs down
giving the person agency.
And that small interaction, Ithink, helps build connection
and impact throughout a whole,entire program.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, that's so true.
If someone feels that theirvoice matters, the care plan
shifts to them, feeling investedin ownership in that right.
It's not someone just tellingthem it's their care plan, and
if it's their care plan, they'refive times more likely to
(07:13):
activate it.
To Cassandra's point yeah, it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It's like the frustration that we all feel
when we go through a dial-intoll-free number experience and
hit all the prompts and we giveall the information and then,
when we get on the phone with ahuman, the human asks us all
those same questions all overagain.
It's like did you hear me?
Did you listen to what I wassaying?
(07:38):
Did you read through it?
Did you get to know me beforeyou started talking to me?
So that's in an automatedenvironment, but it's the same
thing with trying to get amessage across, let alone a
healthcare related message,where we're really looking for a
response from people.
It's exasperating.
It is, it is, and I know thatthere's a lot in the science of
(08:02):
engagement that's employed toget people to take an action.
Bob, you're the expert onconnecting humans with the
messaging that's put in front ofthem and motivating them to
take action.
What would you say is a clutchstrategy to employ when you're
(08:22):
trying to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
strategy to employ when you're trying to do that.
So I would say one of theclutch strategies is enabling
people to practice doingactivities that lend themselves
to being healthier emotionally,brain health and physically.
So what's the concept ofpracticing being healthy in
(08:49):
healthcare?
You know, I find out I'm adiabetic or I'm pregnant or I
have a lot of anxiety.
Now how do I practice gettingout of that?
Just like any sport, right?
Cassandra?
You mentioned MMAma.
It's probably 80 to 1 practiceto match time, right, like it's
a okay.
(09:10):
Well, what's the equivalent ofthat practice in mental health,
physical health?
So I think what we do in thescience is we uh, to cassandra's
point we ask people and wepersonalize the types of
messages and activities.
We don't give everyone the samething and there are small
(09:30):
things that they can do withintheir lifestyle and then that
enables them to accomplish it,feel better about themselves and
feel like they're influencingtheir own life and plan of care.
And feel like they'reinfluencing their own life and
plan of care.
Cassandra mentioned the wordagency.
That means in psychology terms,that means sense of control,
(09:51):
right.
So that's what we're after hereHelping people feel a little
bit more sense of control inthis crazy world with everything
going on.
So that's what I would sayPractice, that's what GOMO kind
of has developed.
That science Very interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Cassandra, can you think of a couple of ways, like
in one particular program oreffort, where you consider the
different personalities oraudiences that you're trying to
get that message across to, andwhat customization or
personalization might you applyfor each of those different
audiences to help them feel likethe experience is all about
(10:33):
them to help them feel like theexperience is all about them.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, so we talk about things like personas, and
it basically means a specifictype of person wanting to get
this information, and sosometimes that comes down to an
age group and sometimes thatcomes down to a gender.
So, with age group, for example,one lesson that came through a
program we did with Amerigroupwas initial messaging is that we
(10:58):
were really focused onproviding lots of resources.
These are young people who areaging out of a foster care
situation and they may not knowwhere all their important
documentation is, they may notknow how to access their doctor,
and so we might have thoughtthat just providing lots of
content, lots of texts go findthis, go find that.
(11:20):
But these are individuals whohave been talked at their entire
life, and so what we decided todo was to provide more of an
empathetic, empathetic nudge, sothat there were testimonials
and there were videos used toactually show other individuals
who are in the situation andunable to actually stand in your
(11:58):
exact shoes, even though theyhave a lot of experience, and so
being able to use technology ina way that better serviced that
group of individuals worked inour advantage.
In that way and being willing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Sometimes, when you're using technology, you got
to be flexible and meet theaudience where they are you know
I love that and it brings tothe story is we had, um, one gal
, she had an opioid challengeand disorder and she was
(12:33):
pregnant, had a two-year-old,and we actually had her appear
at a press conference, uh, withthe first lady of the state and
the commission of health and,and her big thing, to support
what cassandra said, she goes.
(12:54):
You know, I I had so muchstigma, I had to relearn how to
communicate, and the storiesthat were sent to my phone
that's what Cassandra's talkingabout from others, the stories
that were sent to my phone,helped guide me to relearn how
to communicate.
You know, it's fascinating.
(13:16):
So, and to Cassandra's point,that was much more impactful
than a professional or an experttelling her.
It's sometimes these storiesthat make a difference, that we
have to realize it's not justyour condition in her case it
was a substance use, right butregardless of the condition, it
(13:41):
all starts with how your brainis feeling and how we can get
you through that, because yourbrain decides whether to move
forward, to give up, to be angry, to be sad, right.
So and how you deal with thatis going to help your condition,
whatever your condition ismental, physical uh cassandra
(14:05):
mentioned uh, kids, transitionage, youth and foster care.
Like people have a lot ofchallenges and how we help them
in that moment.
Right, it's all about in thatmoment get through today, we'll
help them tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Shelley, earlier you mentioned you had asked kind of
where healthcare could bemissing the mark and part of
that is just understanding thatit's not just information that's
going to be creating the change, it's the actual connection and
being able to have an emotionand shared experience that
(14:48):
connects with that informationto allow an individual to make
change an individual to makechange.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, you know, I was at.
This is a few years ago.
I was at one of our clients,major pharmaceutical company,
well known around the world, andthey're like 20 people in the
room and the head of patientengagement at the pharma says
you know, if we could onlybetter educate folks, they'd be
more adherent or they'd bebetter off.
(15:22):
So I raised my hand.
I said do you know thateducating people is the like the
fourth most important thing?
I mean there are a lot ofoverweight doctors who smoke.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
They're educated right, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So I said it's all about the stuff Cassandra said.
It's all about getting peopleto believe that it fits their
lifestyle, that it's for them.
It's not some general thingthat they sit there and say, oh,
not for me, oh, why don't yougive that to somebody else?
And then they have to believethey can do the tasks and along
(16:01):
the way, yes, you're educatingthem.
But to Cassandra's point, it'snot just saying here's the four
things to do now that you're atype 2 diabetic or you're a
substance use mom or you havemajor depression because your
wife left you, you know whateverLike.
So that's the key.
That's the key.
Education doesn't necessarilyequate to activation and
(16:25):
resiliency.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, cassandra, can you talk a little bit about a
technique you shared with mepreviously, when you present a
concept to someone and thenimmediately give them an
activity to practice?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, so it comes down to timing, and I think,
when you talk about BXprinciples, for example, what is
done at GOMO, bob, is there'sthe idea that there's timing,
delivering the right message atthe right moment, because
behavior change happens whensomeone feels seen in their
(17:02):
moment of need, not just whenwe're ready to talk to them.
If you have someone who isstruggling with quitting smoking
, for example, instead of sayingit's don't smoke, smoking is
bad for you, we all know.
We all know smoking is bad, forexample, instead of saying it's
don't smoke, smoking is bad foryou, we all know.
We all know smoking is bad foryou.
But what can you do in thatmoment instead of reaching for
(17:24):
that pack of cigarettes or thevape?
So one of the ideas is that wedeliver these tactics in the
environment of need.
Maybe you call a friend at thistime.
Hey, this would be a great timeto call a friend.
Here's your toolkit of thingsthat you can do when you feel
like you're vulnerable to thisbehavior.
(17:45):
That's not great for yourhealth.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Sharing a little bit about the concept of mild, the
micro learning, and doing as itrelates to that, well,
cassandra's talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
We've combined, we call it mild micro learning and
doing so, we combine those.
So it's hey, we give you alittle something, we give you a
little activity with it.
We follow up in the message.
We have something else calledreflection technology.
Hey, did you do it?
Do you think what did you learn?
(18:15):
You know those types of thosetypes of things.
And, uh, you know, a story is,we have the program in georgia
called mom's heart matters and Iwas talking it's to help reduce
, uh, death and adverse eventsof underserved women and their
(18:39):
babies in Georgia.
And it's interesting, one of thegals had to be rushed to the
hospital with huge high bloodpressure.
They avoided a stroke, but shewas in the hospital a couple of
days, put on GOMO, and she toldme that, bob, you know, like I
(19:04):
didn't know what to do when Ididn't know.
This is my first baby and whatyou did was give me some
self-awareness and criticalawareness of the types of things
that could be helpful to me andmy baby when I needed them, the
cadence of when I needed them,right, and she goes it's been
(19:27):
great, I'm much healthier, likeI just felt so good, right, you
know, like you know, it's allabout the micro learning and
micro doing for her and her babyand you know she was in a tough
, tough environment, bothsocioeconomically, family wise,
(19:48):
all that.
So, yeah, it's exciting whenyou see the effect on people see
the effect on people.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
It helped to eliminate the shame of asking,
because if the assumption isthat you should know better and
if you don't know and you don'task, then that becomes much more
detrimental.
But eliminating that stigma andthe shame of just being able to
get the information in a safeway was much better for mom and,
ultimately, baby.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Cassandra, we've talked a lot about timing and
practicing to get peoplemotivated.
What about?
How do you customize even thewords that you use or the tone
that you use so somebody feelslike you're speaking to them in
a way that's familiar andcomfortable to them, not at too
(20:40):
high of a level, not usingjargon or terminology that they
might not understand?
What are some step-by-stepsthat you use to make sure that
the message is simple anddirected and clear for the
intended recipient to act upon?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, the first thing is that the team that I work
with, we always make sure thatwe're trying to connect with an
individual and it sounds reallysimple, but part of the secret
sauce is using someone's nameand you feel like you're having
that one-on-one conversation.
So then you havepersonalization with real
purpose, Like when you meetsomeone and you use their name.
(21:19):
There's an immediate connectionthere, and so that's a very
simple tool that we make sure wedo.
We don't overuse it, but it isimportant to make sure you say
good morning, shelly, or Bob,did you know?
Or hey, did you check on this,bob?
So that way you're constantlykeeping the individual, and not
(21:40):
the program as the forefront ofthe communication, excellent,
excellent, those are.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I mean, those are things that you can use in
everyday conversations,relationships, just talking to
other people you know know, tokeep them engaged and feel that
they're actively involved in theconversation and that you're
actually hearing them and seeingthem yeah, and then you asked
about a little bit tolerance.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Interesting, you know there's different techniques.
So let's say, um, when you askquestions, you learn about
people.
Well, let's just say, forpurposes of this podcast, you
know many women, much more thanmen, put their family, their
children and others beforethemselves.
(22:28):
So their own health may lack.
So it's interesting we, gomo,co-sponsored with the Center for
Brain Health, we uh GOMO,co-sponsored with the Center for
Brain Health University ofTexas, the first ever uh women's
brain health and performanceconference with some of the
world's leading scientists.
So the guy there are only twoguys speakers.
(22:49):
I was a little nervous in frontof 300 women, but anyway, the
other guy who spoke was one ofthe top sleep docs.
He's at Stanford in the US andhe spoke about it's so important
for the mom, like everyonetalks about what's safe sleep
and sleep for the baby.
(23:10):
He goes listen, the babies areresilient.
They're going to figure out away to sleep.
It's what babies do.
It's how the brain is.
Like're going to figure out away to sleep.
It's what babies do.
It's how the brain is what.
Like, they'll figure it out.
Like mom, you need to sleep,because if you don't sleep, you
know.
So, basically, but to get themom to sleep, you have to take
(23:31):
sometimes a different approach,like, hey, you know, sleep is
great for your, you know, here'show you'll be a better mom for
your kids, you know, as opposedto Cassandra, you need sleep for
you, you know.
So I think there's differenttechniques like that, depending
on what it is, and sometimes thetone could be like a
(23:55):
cheerleading tone, sometimes itcould be more of a like a
clinical nurse tone.
Others it could be, you know,more straightforward for others.
One of the things that wereally haven't tried we're doing
a little bit in this firstresponder program for police is
(24:15):
we call it the lighter side, youknow, like asking people, even
in a serious disease, would youlike us to use a little humor to
help you get through this?
And I believe people willrespond.
Even people going throughcancer, people need a little
humor in their life.
So anyway, that's just one sidenote.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And sometimes we will customize a program and ask a
participant what tone would youlike us to communicate with you
with?
Would you like a lighter,humorous side?
Would you like a clinician orwould you like just a
straightforward type of tone?
And so that way the wholeprogram is customized in that
way.
Now, sometimes bad jokes landand sometimes bad jokes don't
(24:57):
land.
But we tried, we tried.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay.
So lots of really good ideashere to cut through the clutter,
get your voice heard, make surepeople are listening, digesting
and, hopefully, acting in apositive way.
I'll ask both of you CassandraI'll put you in the hot seat
first If you could pick onething that you feel is highly
impactful to employ when you'retrying to get someone's
(25:26):
attention and cut through theclutter.
What do you think that would be?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I certainly think that using technology in a way
that adds humanity.
Everybody's talking about AIand it's inevitable, and every
business is being impacted byusing it in some way.
But I think that AI withouthumanity can reinforce bias or
(25:53):
depersonalize care ordepersonalized care.
So the risk is thinking that AIreplaces human connection, when
ideally, ai will enhance it andit must be trained with
cultural humility and emotionalintelligence, or it can deepen,
I think, inequalities instead ofclosing them, and so I think we
(26:15):
should embrace it.
But also smart people like you,shelley, and like you, bob,
understand that there needs tobe a human touch when it comes
to AI, in any kind of technology, in programs, when you are
dealing with health and wellness.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah, and I would say I got that point.
Shelley, I would say in myanswer is we covered a little
bit.
But if people believe that theperson or machine or technology
believes in them and cares aboutthem and wants to know about
(26:55):
them and cares about them andwants to know about them, they
will be five to seven times morelikely to reciprocate.
So the key is we talked aboutasking people questions
throughout the journey about howthey're doing and showing them
how the system adjusts to themand then enabling them to have a
(27:15):
sense of control where they cantext one word and the system
goes into triage.
So, for example, we talkedabout folks going through
substance use.
The cognitive science says thatif we could divert someone's
attention for 15 minutes whenthey feel like relapsing, we
have three times less chancethat they're actually going to
(27:38):
do it.
So they could text HALT forhungry, angry, lonely, tired,
which is a lot of times whenpeople feel the urge and we give
them something to do to taketheir mind off it.
So that's my answer we showpeople, we believe in them and
we let them also have controlover the actions of the care
(28:00):
plan.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Thank you both Great ideas.
We have been talking a lottoday about how to get your
message across and how to getyour voice heard.
We want to hear from you, ourlisteners, so please submit your
questions for future guests bycommenting on this podcast or
DMing on our social channels atGOMO Health.
On behalf of Bob Gold andmyself, thank you all for
(28:24):
listening to this episode aboutcutting through the health care
clutter.
To get your message heard andif you enjoyed what you heard,
please subscribe, submit yourquestions and be sure to like
and comment on this episode.
Submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of health care, visit
us at gomohealthcom and be sureto tune in on Thursdays to catch
(28:44):
our freshest contentno-transcript.
I really do believe that every message is an
opportunity to build trust,spark communication and help
people feel truly understood.
My number one role is as a mom.
I have two young people who I'mtrusted to guide through this
world, which can be a littlecrazy at times, but it governs
(00:26):
my perspective on how importanthealth and wellness information
is.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work or care for ourselves
and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld,chief Marketing and Client
Services Officer at GOMO Health.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist at
GOMO Health.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth care, what it means, why
it matters and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to Season 2 of HumanResilience Changing the Way
Healthcare is Delivered.
In this episode, bob and I arejoined by Cassandra Cousineau,
(01:12):
healthcare content andengagement expert, and we'll be
diving into how to cut throughthe clutter to get your message
heard.
Whether you're talking topatients, employees, providers
or anyone.
Really, everybody's inbox andattention span is really full
and there's a big competition toget your voice heard, your
message received and cut throughthe clutter of what is in front
(01:36):
of everybody today.
So the question we're reallytalking about today is how can
you effectively bypass all thatnoise to resonate with your
audience in an impactful andengaging way?
So we're going to start bytalking about the state of
health care, communication andmessaging and then move on to
proven strategies that work tocut through everything that's in
(01:57):
front of health care consumerstoday.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I'm excited to have Nevada Cassandra on.
She's one of my favorite people.
Cassandra, tell us a little bitabout yourself and what
motivates you.
Maybe slip in some unknown fact.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, so I bring about over two decades of
experience in healthcare,spanning operations, data and
digital communications, and Ihave a background as a
journalist.
I've actually spent a lot oftime.
You said an interesting fact.
I've spent a lot of timetalking to combat sports
athletes individuals who areboxers or MMA fighters and what
(02:41):
I've been able to do is kind ofblend analytical thinking and
storytelling to turn complexhealth topics into content
that's not just informative butpersonal and actionable, and I
really do believe that everymessage is an opportunity to
build trust, spark communicationand help people feel truly
(03:03):
understood.
You know, my number one role isas a mom.
I have two young people who I'mtrusted to guide through this
world, which can be a littlecrazy at times, but it governs
my perspective and how importanthealth and wellness information
is.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Got it.
Thanks, cassandra.
So let's kick off.
We know in today's world,there's a lot that's in front of
people that are just competingfor their attention.
There's world events and newsand things, of course, related
to politics, and all kinds ofdifferent messages that are
thrown at us every day.
(03:43):
We all know we even get onlineand the thing that we're
actually intending to look foris all of a sudden forgotten
because there's a million otherthings competing for our
attention when we go online.
So let's start with in thehealthcare environment,
cassandra, what would you say isthe biggest challenge?
What's not working?
What do we need to fix when itcomes to really engaging with
(04:06):
somebody, getting theirattention and getting our
message across?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, you mentioned kind of the digital world and in
communicating online, andthat's the big challenge is that
we often communicate at peopleand not with them.
Healthcare tends to these daysprioritize systems over
individuals, which leads to, Ithink, generic messaging and
that misses the mark.
(04:31):
When you don't acknowledgesomeone's lived experience,
especially when we're talkingabout their social and emotional
needs, it's really hard tobuild trust in, ultimately,
engagement.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You know one interesting point to support
that a lot of healthcare hasbecome transactional because
there's so much need, not enoughproviders.
And, to Cassandra's point, evenif there were enough providers,
99% of the time you're athomework and play.
So you know how do we turn atransactional healthcare system
(05:07):
which is not proving to producepositive outcomes to a system
where it engages you on apersonal basis in your homework
and play.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, it's so true.
It's like um.
It's info overload is out there, um and the the information
isn't necessarily immediatelypertinent to the person, it's
just general for everybody.
So not only are you competingto get your message across with
all the other noise that's outthere, but if people don't feel
that you're directly talking tothem, how are you going to get
(05:43):
their attention Right?
It's um.
I came across a stat recentlythat from the Health Information
National Trends Survey hintsand they give us this hint that
62 percent of adults are feelingoverwhelmed by all of the
information that is presented tothem.
So, cassandra, what would yousay would be like a recommended
(06:05):
strategy to make your messagestand out, and what do you do
tactically to employ thatstrategy in a message you want
to get across?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I think the number one thing is use empathy and
create a one-on-one conversation, speaking to people, not
programs.
So one of the behavioralexperience principles, I think,
is activation through shareddecision making.
Something as simple as askinghow are you feeling today?
(06:38):
And also inviting maybe athumbs up or a thumbs down
giving the person agency, maybea thumbs up or a thumbs down
giving the person agency.
And that small interaction, Ithink, helps build connection
and impact throughout a whole,entire program.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, that's so true.
If someone feels that theirvoice matters, the care plan
shifts to them, feeling investedin ownership in that right.
It's not someone just tellingthem it's their care plan, and
if it's their care plan, they'refive times more likely to
(07:13):
activate it.
To Cassandra's point yeah, it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It's like the frustration that we all feel
when we go through a dial-intoll-free number experience and
hit all the prompts and we giveall the information and then,
when we get on the phone with ahuman, the human asks us all
those same questions all overagain.
It's like did you hear me?
Did you listen to what I wassaying?
(07:38):
Did you read through it?
Did you get to know me beforeyou started talking to me?
So that's in an automatedenvironment, but it's the same
thing with trying to get amessage across, let alone a
healthcare related message,where we're really looking for a
response from people.
It's exasperating.
It is, it is, and I know thatthere's a lot in the science of
(08:02):
engagement that's employed toget people to take an action.
Bob, you're the expert onconnecting humans with the
messaging that's put in front ofthem and motivating them to
take action.
What would you say is a clutchstrategy to employ when you're
(08:22):
trying to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
strategy to employ when you're trying to do that.
So I would say one of theclutch strategies is enabling
people to practice doingactivities that lend themselves
to being healthier emotionally,brain health and physically.
So what's the concept ofpracticing being healthy in
(08:49):
healthcare?
You know, I find out I'm adiabetic or I'm pregnant or I
have a lot of anxiety.
Now how do I practice gettingout of that?
Just like any sport, right?
Cassandra?
You mentioned MMAma.
It's probably 80 to 1 practiceto match time, right, like it's
a okay.
(09:10):
Well, what's the equivalent ofthat practice in mental health,
physical health?
So I think what we do in thescience is we uh, to cassandra's
point we ask people and wepersonalize the types of
messages and activities.
We don't give everyone the samething and there are small
(09:30):
things that they can do withintheir lifestyle and then that
enables them to accomplish it,feel better about themselves and
feel like they're influencingtheir own life and plan of care.
And feel like they'reinfluencing their own life and
plan of care.
Cassandra mentioned the wordagency.
That means in psychology terms,that means sense of control,
(09:51):
right.
So that's what we're after hereHelping people feel a little
bit more sense of control inthis crazy world with everything
going on.
So that's what I would sayPractice, that's what GOMO kind
of has developed.
That science Very interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Cassandra, can you think of a couple of ways, like
in one particular program oreffort, where you consider the
different personalities oraudiences that you're trying to
get that message across to, andwhat customization or
personalization might you applyfor each of those different
audiences to help them feel likethe experience is all about
(10:33):
them to help them feel like theexperience is all about them.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, so we talk about things like personas, and
it basically means a specifictype of person wanting to get
this information, and sosometimes that comes down to an
age group and sometimes thatcomes down to a gender.
So, with age group, for example,one lesson that came through a
program we did with Amerigroupwas initial messaging is that we
(10:58):
were really focused onproviding lots of resources.
These are young people who areaging out of a foster care
situation and they may not knowwhere all their important
documentation is, they may notknow how to access their doctor,
and so we might have thoughtthat just providing lots of
content, lots of texts go findthis, go find that.
(11:20):
But these are individuals whohave been talked at their entire
life, and so what we decided todo was to provide more of an
empathetic, empathetic nudge, sothat there were testimonials
and there were videos used toactually show other individuals
who are in the situation andunable to actually stand in your
(11:58):
exact shoes, even though theyhave a lot of experience, and so
being able to use technology ina way that better serviced that
group of individuals worked inour advantage.
In that way and being willing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Sometimes, when you're using technology, you got
to be flexible and meet theaudience where they are you know
I love that and it brings tothe story is we had, um, one gal
, she had an opioid challengeand disorder and she was
(12:33):
pregnant, had a two-year-old,and we actually had her appear
at a press conference, uh, withthe first lady of the state and
the commission of health and,and her big thing, to support
what cassandra said, she goes.
(12:54):
You know, I I had so muchstigma, I had to relearn how to
communicate, and the storiesthat were sent to my phone
that's what Cassandra's talkingabout from others, the stories
that were sent to my phone,helped guide me to relearn how
to communicate.
You know, it's fascinating.
(13:16):
So, and to Cassandra's point,that was much more impactful
than a professional or an experttelling her.
It's sometimes these storiesthat make a difference, that we
have to realize it's not justyour condition in her case it
was a substance use, right butregardless of the condition, it
(13:41):
all starts with how your brainis feeling and how we can get
you through that, because yourbrain decides whether to move
forward, to give up, to be angry, to be sad, right.
So and how you deal with thatis going to help your condition,
whatever your condition ismental, physical uh cassandra
(14:05):
mentioned uh, kids, transitionage, youth and foster care.
Like people have a lot ofchallenges and how we help them
in that moment.
Right, it's all about in thatmoment get through today, we'll
help them tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Shelley, earlier you mentioned you had asked kind of
where healthcare could bemissing the mark and part of
that is just understanding thatit's not just information that's
going to be creating the change, it's the actual connection and
being able to have an emotionand shared experience that
(14:48):
connects with that informationto allow an individual to make
change an individual to makechange.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, you know, I was at.
This is a few years ago.
I was at one of our clients,major pharmaceutical company,
well known around the world, andthey're like 20 people in the
room and the head of patientengagement at the pharma says
you know, if we could onlybetter educate folks, they'd be
more adherent or they'd bebetter off.
(15:22):
So I raised my hand.
I said do you know thateducating people is the like the
fourth most important thing?
I mean there are a lot ofoverweight doctors who smoke.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
They're educated right, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So I said it's all about the stuff Cassandra said.
It's all about getting peopleto believe that it fits their
lifestyle, that it's for them.
It's not some general thingthat they sit there and say, oh,
not for me, oh, why don't yougive that to somebody else?
And then they have to believethey can do the tasks and along
(16:01):
the way, yes, you're educatingthem.
But to Cassandra's point, it'snot just saying here's the four
things to do now that you're atype 2 diabetic or you're a
substance use mom or you havemajor depression because your
wife left you, you know whateverLike.
So that's the key.
That's the key.
Education doesn't necessarilyequate to activation and
(16:25):
resiliency.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, cassandra, can you talk a little bit about a
technique you shared with mepreviously, when you present a
concept to someone and thenimmediately give them an
activity to practice?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, so it comes down to timing, and I think,
when you talk about BXprinciples, for example, what is
done at GOMO, bob, is there'sthe idea that there's timing,
delivering the right message atthe right moment, because
behavior change happens whensomeone feels seen in their
(17:02):
moment of need, not just whenwe're ready to talk to them.
If you have someone who isstruggling with quitting smoking
, for example, instead of sayingit's don't smoke, smoking is
bad for you, we all know.
We all know smoking is bad, forexample, instead of saying it's
don't smoke, smoking is bad foryou, we all know.
We all know smoking is bad foryou.
But what can you do in thatmoment instead of reaching for
(17:24):
that pack of cigarettes or thevape?
So one of the ideas is that wedeliver these tactics in the
environment of need.
Maybe you call a friend at thistime.
Hey, this would be a great timeto call a friend.
Here's your toolkit of thingsthat you can do when you feel
like you're vulnerable to thisbehavior.
(17:45):
That's not great for yourhealth.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Sharing a little bit about the concept of mild, the
micro learning, and doing as itrelates to that, well,
cassandra's talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
We've combined, we call it mild micro learning and
doing so, we combine those.
So it's hey, we give you alittle something, we give you a
little activity with it.
We follow up in the message.
We have something else calledreflection technology.
Hey, did you do it?
Do you think what did you learn?
(18:15):
You know those types of thosetypes of things.
And, uh, you know, a story is,we have the program in georgia
called mom's heart matters and Iwas talking it's to help reduce
, uh, death and adverse eventsof underserved women and their
(18:39):
babies in Georgia.
And it's interesting, one of thegals had to be rushed to the
hospital with huge high bloodpressure.
They avoided a stroke, but shewas in the hospital a couple of
days, put on GOMO, and she toldme that, bob, you know, like I
(19:04):
didn't know what to do when Ididn't know.
This is my first baby and whatyou did was give me some
self-awareness and criticalawareness of the types of things
that could be helpful to me andmy baby when I needed them, the
cadence of when I needed them,right, and she goes it's been
(19:27):
great, I'm much healthier, likeI just felt so good, right, you
know, like you know, it's allabout the micro learning and
micro doing for her and her babyand you know she was in a tough
, tough environment, bothsocioeconomically, family wise,
(19:48):
all that.
So, yeah, it's exciting whenyou see the effect on people see
the effect on people.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
It helped to eliminate the shame of asking,
because if the assumption isthat you should know better and
if you don't know and you don'task, then that becomes much more
detrimental.
But eliminating that stigma andthe shame of just being able to
get the information in a safeway was much better for mom and,
ultimately, baby.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Cassandra, we've talked a lot about timing and
practicing to get peoplemotivated.
What about?
How do you customize even thewords that you use or the tone
that you use so somebody feelslike you're speaking to them in
a way that's familiar andcomfortable to them, not at too
(20:40):
high of a level, not usingjargon or terminology that they
might not understand?
What are some step-by-stepsthat you use to make sure that
the message is simple anddirected and clear for the
intended recipient to act upon?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, the first thing is that the team that I work
with, we always make sure thatwe're trying to connect with an
individual and it sounds reallysimple, but part of the secret
sauce is using someone's nameand you feel like you're having
that one-on-one conversation.
So then you havepersonalization with real
purpose, Like when you meetsomeone and you use their name.
(21:19):
There's an immediate connectionthere, and so that's a very
simple tool that we make sure wedo.
We don't overuse it, but it isimportant to make sure you say
good morning, shelly, or Bob,did you know?
Or hey, did you check on this,bob?
So that way you're constantlykeeping the individual, and not
(21:40):
the program as the forefront ofthe communication, excellent,
excellent, those are.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I mean, those are things that you can use in
everyday conversations,relationships, just talking to
other people you know know, tokeep them engaged and feel that
they're actively involved in theconversation and that you're
actually hearing them and seeingthem yeah, and then you asked
about a little bit tolerance.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Interesting, you know there's different techniques.
So let's say, um, when you askquestions, you learn about
people.
Well, let's just say, forpurposes of this podcast, you
know many women, much more thanmen, put their family, their
children and others beforethemselves.
(22:28):
So their own health may lack.
So it's interesting we, gomo,co-sponsored with the Center for
Brain Health, we uh GOMO,co-sponsored with the Center for
Brain Health University ofTexas, the first ever uh women's
brain health and performanceconference with some of the
world's leading scientists.
So the guy there are only twoguys speakers.
(22:49):
I was a little nervous in frontof 300 women, but anyway, the
other guy who spoke was one ofthe top sleep docs.
He's at Stanford in the US andhe spoke about it's so important
for the mom, like everyonetalks about what's safe sleep
and sleep for the baby.
(23:10):
He goes listen, the babies areresilient.
They're going to figure out away to sleep.
It's what babies do.
It's how the brain is.
Like're going to figure out away to sleep.
It's what babies do.
It's how the brain is what.
Like, they'll figure it out.
Like mom, you need to sleep,because if you don't sleep, you
know.
So, basically, but to get themom to sleep, you have to take
(23:31):
sometimes a different approach,like, hey, you know, sleep is
great for your, you know, here'show you'll be a better mom for
your kids, you know, as opposedto Cassandra, you need sleep for
you, you know.
So I think there's differenttechniques like that, depending
on what it is, and sometimes thetone could be like a
(23:55):
cheerleading tone, sometimes itcould be more of a like a
clinical nurse tone.
Others it could be, you know,more straightforward for others.
One of the things that wereally haven't tried we're doing
a little bit in this firstresponder program for police is
(24:15):
we call it the lighter side, youknow, like asking people, even
in a serious disease, would youlike us to use a little humor to
help you get through this?
And I believe people willrespond.
Even people going throughcancer, people need a little
humor in their life.
So anyway, that's just one sidenote.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And sometimes we will customize a program and ask a
participant what tone would youlike us to communicate with you
with?
Would you like a lighter,humorous side?
Would you like a clinician orwould you like just a
straightforward type of tone?
And so that way the wholeprogram is customized in that
way.
Now, sometimes bad jokes landand sometimes bad jokes don't
(24:57):
land.
But we tried, we tried.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay.
So lots of really good ideashere to cut through the clutter,
get your voice heard, make surepeople are listening, digesting
and, hopefully, acting in apositive way.
I'll ask both of you CassandraI'll put you in the hot seat
first If you could pick onething that you feel is highly
impactful to employ when you'retrying to get someone's
(25:26):
attention and cut through theclutter.
What do you think that would be?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I certainly think that using technology in a way
that adds humanity.
Everybody's talking about AIand it's inevitable, and every
business is being impacted byusing it in some way.
But I think that AI withouthumanity can reinforce bias or
(25:53):
depersonalize care ordepersonalized care.
So the risk is thinking that AIreplaces human connection, when
ideally, ai will enhance it andit must be trained with
cultural humility and emotionalintelligence, or it can deepen,
I think, inequalities instead ofclosing them, and so I think we
(26:15):
should embrace it.
But also smart people like you,shelley, and like you, bob,
understand that there needs tobe a human touch when it comes
to AI, in any kind of technology, in programs, when you are
dealing with health and wellness.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah, and I would say I got that point.
Shelley, I would say in myanswer is we covered a little
bit.
But if people believe that theperson or machine or technology
believes in them and cares aboutthem and wants to know about
(26:55):
them and cares about them andwants to know about them, they
will be five to seven times morelikely to reciprocate.
So the key is we talked aboutasking people questions
throughout the journey about howthey're doing and showing them
how the system adjusts to themand then enabling them to have a
(27:15):
sense of control where they cantext one word and the system
goes into triage.
So, for example, we talkedabout folks going through
substance use.
The cognitive science says thatif we could divert someone's
attention for 15 minutes whenthey feel like relapsing, we
have three times less chancethat they're actually going to
(27:38):
do it.
So they could text HALT forhungry, angry, lonely, tired,
which is a lot of times whenpeople feel the urge and we give
them something to do to taketheir mind off it.
So that's my answer we showpeople, we believe in them and
we let them also have controlover the actions of the care
(28:00):
plan.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Thank you both Great ideas.
We have been talking a lottoday about how to get your
message across and how to getyour voice heard.
We want to hear from you, ourlisteners, so please submit your
questions for future guests bycommenting on this podcast or
DMing on our social channels atGOMO Health.
On behalf of Bob Gold andmyself, thank you all for
(28:24):
listening to this episode aboutcutting through the health care
clutter.
To get your message heard andif you enjoyed what you heard,
please subscribe, submit yourquestions and be sure to like
and comment on this episode.
Submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of health care, visit
us at gomohealthcom and be sureto tune in on Thursdays to catch
(28:44):
our freshest contentno-transcript.
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