October 14, 2025 • 33 mins
Trauma isn’t rare -- and it doesn’t only come from catastrophic events. For first responders, veterans, kids in foster care, parents in crisis, and families everywhere, trauma can silently shape daily life, decision-making, relationships, and health.
In this episode of the Human Resilience podcast, hosts, Shelley and Bob, sit down with Dr. Nicole Blazek, a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma recovery, and Jessica Andersen, a registered nurse and behavioral health engagement expert. Together, they break down what trauma-informed care really looks like when it’s done well, not as a buzzword but as a practice rooted in safety, trust, and compassion.
Listen and Learn:
- What trauma really is, and why it’s based on internal impact, not just the event
- Grounding and connection strategies that work when someone shuts down, and how to build trust with people who feel unseen, guarded, or exhausted
- The positive impact digital support can have when triggers hit between in-person sessions
- Practical ways to respond without judgment to support healing in everyday life
From grounding strategies that work in moments of panic to digital check-ins that extend care beyond the session, Nicole and Jess offer real tools for real people: clinicians, caregivers, family members, and anyone supporting someone through pain.
Content Warning: This episode includes discussion of trauma, mental health struggles, and suicidal ideation. Please listen with care and prioritize your well-being. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 for immediate support.
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Strategist, GoMo Health
Featured Guests
- Dr. Nicole Blazek, Clinical Psychologist, Trauma-Informed Care Expert
- Jessica Andersen, BSN, RN, Nurse and Healthcare Engagement Expert
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive alerts of new episodes, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
But also gives them some perspective of like I do
have these things in my lifethat matter, and the people that
really care that I'm here andreasons to live.
So I think trying to engage themand get to know them as a whole
person can be helpful too.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at Gomo Health.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealthcare, what it means, why
it matters, and how it can makea difference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
For millions of people, fromfirst responders to children in
(01:00):
foster care and others along thecourse of their lives, trauma
isn't a rare event.
It's part of their daily living.
And what we do to help them andcare for them and communicate
with them can make a hugedifference between their healing
and getting them to where theyshould be, getting them to where
(01:20):
they should be, and uh in somecases, unfortunately, them
progressing to further harm andincreasing their trauma.
So today we're joined byregistered nurse Jessica
Anderson and clinicalpsychologist Dr.
Nicole Blazik, both experts intrauma-informed care.
And we're going to talk abouthow we can better support those
(01:42):
who are going through trauma orhave been through trauma and how
we can engage them withtechnology and human
connections, both in person andremotely digitally.
So welcome, Jessica and Dr.
Blazik.
Good to have you both here.
And uh let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah, so Jessica and Nicole, if each of you would
introduce yourselves, tell us alittle bit about your expertise,
and tell us a little story ofwhy you got into it or what
brought you to this uh type ofwork.
So, Nicole, why don't you gofirst?
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Good afternoon.
Thank you so much for invitingme to participate in this
discussion today.
So I'm a clinical psychologistand I've been seeing patients
for nearly 20 years.
For the past 10 years, I've beenworking mostly with veterans,
completing evaluations for theVA.
I worked in a variety ofsettings, including outpatient
clinics, inpatient psychiatricunits, a federal prison, and at
the VA.
(02:45):
Not surprisingly, I'veencountered patients who have
experienced trauma in all thosesettings.
As for how I got into this work,I've always just been fascinated
by mental illness and howpeople's minds work.
I think being able to helpsomeone improve their mental
health and lives is such arewarding experience.
You know, I've seen some amazingrecoveries in my clinical
practice, and it's just such aprivilege to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Well, thank you.
And Jessica Anderson.
SPEAKER_03 (03:12):
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
My name is Jessica Anderson.
I'm a registered nurse by trade.
I spent much of my careerworking in the behavioral health
space in one way or another.
I keep coming back to it.
Much of my direct patient careexperience is in the pediatric
psych population, predominantlyin pediatric residential
(03:32):
treatment centers.
So that's where kids live andreceive intense support outside
of the home environment.
In terms of what brought me intothis work, I think I've always
had a passion for trying tounderstand why people act the
way they do.
And if I'm honest, my favoritepart of life is talking to
people and holding space forthem to share their stories and
(03:53):
feel heard.
So thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
So, Nicole, I'm going to switch to Nicole and
not Dr.
Blazik because it just feels alot more comfortable that way.
Is that cool?
I wish you would.
All righty.
We got it then.
Just if we can just start with adefinition, just so we're sure
we're all on the same page andunderstanding what does
trauma-informed care mean.
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
So at the most basic level, trauma-informed care
really is healthcare providersand organizations understanding
how trauma can affect anindividual in a clinical
setting, and then also in theireveryday lives, and then
implementing policies and bestpractices to help promote a
positive, safe, supportiveenvironment that promotes
healing and recovery.
(04:40):
And I think when clinicians kindof develop this understanding of
patient life experiences, theycan provide more effective care
and it can help improve patientoutcomes and whether patients
stay in treatment.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
All right, thank you.
Now, Jess, let's let's transferthat over and talk about if
those things that Nicole justdescribed, the hurdles and the
challenges, if those aren'taddressed in the various
environments that Nicole alsomentioned, whether it be a
school setting for kids or acamp, a recreational setting, or
(05:13):
for an adult in family life orin their employment, what are
the risks that we're looking atwhen those things aren't
addressed properly?
SPEAKER_03 (05:21):
Yeah, so I think that's a really good question.
Um, and I love Nicole'sdefinition of trauma-informed
care.
To dive into a definition oftrauma, I really like how Dr.
Gabor Matei defines trauma.
Um and he says it's not whathappens to us, it happens, it's
what happens inside of us.
(05:42):
Um, and so that's a reallyinteresting frame of reference
to understand, especially as youlook at how trauma and you know
big events can impact peopledifferently.
So it might be first responderson a call, it could be ER
nurses, um, you know, working acode, it could even be siblings
in the same household with thesame parents.
(06:02):
You're experiencing like you arein that same environment, but
you are experiencing itdifferently, which can help
explain like why one person onthe fire department, you know,
goes to that call and walks awayseemingly unscathed, but another
one is like stuck in that momentand can't get out of that.
So I think when we talk about,you know, what are the risks
(06:25):
when we don't recognize trauma?
Um one of the biggest risks isthat we inadvertently
re-traumatize people, and thatcan look many different ways.
Um, and most of the time, thatre-traumatization is
unintentional because we don'trecognize that someone is
struggling, and so weinadvertently keep bumping up
(06:47):
against that wound.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, so um Nicole and even for Jessica, so it's
interesting.
So, you know, if you're let'ssay an alcoholic in recovery,
you know, one of the firstthings is just trying to get the
person to say, Hey, I need help.
I'm you know, an alcoholic forthem to express it, which is
(07:15):
cathartic, or at least to admitin order to go down.
So what what do you find likewhen you're first meeting
somebody who maybe has had atraumatic experience or comes
from a lot of trauma?
What do you do to help themrecognize the issues they're
(07:40):
having associated with that, orare they are they clear on that?
Like, what do you do initially,Nicole, when you're meeting
people?
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
In terms of helping them recognize like their
trauma?
You know, I I think a lot ofpeople come in and they already
have an understanding of whatthey've been through.
Um, I think substance use iskind of a different topic and it
often does go along with trauma.
Um, there's some good treatmentsout there, like motivational
interviewing that people couldbecome trained in to help people
(08:11):
um kind of buy into treatmentand acknowledge that they have
an issue or a problem that theyneed to work on.
I think one of the mostimportant things in
trauma-informed care and just incare in general is really
developing that rapport andgetting the buy-in from the
patient, making it acollaborative experience.
It shouldn't just be me as aprofessional thing, well, you've
got trauma, so we have to do X,Y, and Z, and you have to be on
(08:34):
board right now.
I think there is a warming upprocess, a rapport-building
process that is just essentialto get the um people who have
experienced trauma intotreatment that can be really
helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Yeah, Jess, any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, you know, in workingwith children, and we can all
look at our own childhoodexperiences, right?
But especially the kids that Iworked with, you know, kids
don't have the words necessarilyto define something as trauma.
Um, and when you have it in yourlived environment over extended
(09:10):
periods of time and you have nocontext as to the outside world,
what it should look like, likewhat's a warm and inviting and
loving family unit look like,um, you don't really recognize
that it's not healthy.
So I think, you know, as Nicolewas talking about being that
safe person and building thatrapport, trust and credibility
(09:32):
is huge.
Um, no one will open up and talkto you and tell you anything to
get any sort of help if you'renot willing to sit there in the
uncomfortable moments and askthose open-ended questions to
really get to the nut of what'shappening.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, just to stay on children for a
second, you mentioned Dr.
Mate.
So, you know, if you'reexperiencing traumas uh from
birth that you don't know about,you know, your brain changes
some of the synaptic connectionsand rewires itself to protect
(10:10):
your brain and your body.
But then that carries throughsometimes adults with where
those types of people, let's sayin child welfare, foster care,
tend to disassociate with theworld because that's what they
did as a young person to protectthemselves from their
environment, you know, thatdisassociation, you know.
(10:31):
So, Nicole, getting back to you,so if someone, let's say, has
traumatic experiences and nowthey're isolated or from a
psychological safety has chosento isolate themselves, you know,
what types of things do you door tell them, or are there
(10:54):
things they can practice or doon their own to sort of form
relationships or buildrelationships from a social
connectedness perspective?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
I mean, that's a good question.
I would say there are it's hardfor people who have gone through
trauma to trust other people.
Like that's one of the biggestthings that I hear is that I
don't trust anybody.
The world's really unsafe.
Um, and so I say to myself, Idon't have friends, I don't talk
to anybody.
And I think part of at leastfrom the mental health side of
(11:28):
treatment, is really teachingpeople that not everybody is
dangerous.
We can form these relationshipsand teaching them how to go out
and do that, even just doingbaby steps.
So, just a clear behavioral planof okay, go out and try and
spend five minutes in public orjust talk to one person, make
reach out to one person, likesmall things like that can make
a huge difference.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, you know, just to comment on that.
So at Gomo Health, our scienceto help people with trauma is
called behavioral RX.
And because we're delivering itand engaging you in a
personalized but digitalconversation, a lot of times
(12:13):
people are more honest and openbecause they don't have to look
a person in the face and saythings, and then we give them
little things to do to practiceon their own.
So it's interesting.
What we found uh successful inorder for people to get back to
(12:35):
kind of a healthier, betterlifestyle for themselves is they
both have to believe thatwhoever is talking to them or
sending them information aboutwhat to do, they find that
person or thing they trust it,they find it credible.
But just as important, they haveto find themselves.
(12:57):
Can I do I trust myself to goout to get a full-time job?
Do I trust myself to get backyou know to life and friends?
And do I find myself credible?
So I I found it interesting.
It's trust and credibility workboth for the person and the and
the professional trying toengage them.
(13:20):
And Jess, I know that you knoworiginally you did this human to
human, you know, and now at Gomoyou've developed a lot of
programs.
You've been part of a lot ofprograms that engage people
digitally who are still seeinghuman providers.
And, you know, what are some ofyour learnings from having that
(13:42):
combination of health at homeengagement along with seeing a
professional like Nicole?
SPEAKER_03 (13:50):
Yeah, for sure.
I think one of the benefits ofyou know digital engagement
solutions, especially in thisspace, is that you can scale the
resource in education.
Um, so that's really helpful.
You can also spread it out overtime.
So where clinicians in thein-person setting or even like a
(14:10):
virtual um you know therapysession, you are time limited
with that interaction.
Um, but trauma comes up at themost random times, right?
And it it doesn't have businesshours.
So it can come up and rear itshead at 10 a, you know, 10 p.m.
on a Saturday night, and youdon't have access to that
(14:32):
clinician.
But digital engagement solutionscan kind of be a tether there so
someone can reach out um intothat program.
And, you know, you know, for ourum substance use disorder
programs, we have a keywordcalled HALT.
It's hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
And someone in the program cantext that when they're feeling
(14:55):
an urge to use or do, you know,something that they know is
detrimental and they get in themoment feedback and guidance to
support them, to kind of, youknow, remind them to like take a
walk for 15 minutes, go do somethings that will calm you down,
this too shall pass, those kindof things to help.
So I think that accessibility isreally important and helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
You know, that's interesting, Jess.
And when you bring that up, thedigital compliment to the
in-person, Nicole, just thinkingabout other compliments to that
in-person uh relationship thatyou're building with the people
that you're helping.
What about the caregiver?
What about their circles ofinfluence and their supports if
they have them, which hopefullythey do, community, family,
(15:40):
friends, otherwise?
How what are strategies to getthem involved in supporting the
person who's gone through thesetraumatic experiences?
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
So, I mean, a lot of times clinicians might have a
spouse come into a treatmentsession and kind of explain to
them, hey, this is what traumalooks like.
Because, you know, it's noteverybody has a good
understanding of what PTSD mightlook like for people.
And they might think they'rejust being difficult or
antisocial.
Um, and so giving them thatpsychoeducation of this is what
(16:14):
trauma looks like, this is howit affects people, this might be
why your loved one is actingthat way, I think is a really
important part of it.
And then giving them the skillsto support that person in a way
that's going to help them growand move past it as opposed to
kind of staying stuck in it isalso really important.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
And what might some of those recommendations be?
I realize even for a caregiver,there are things that they need,
tools that they need forthemselves on how to kind of
coach themselves through helpingtheir loved one.
And then what are some of thetools that might be suggested to
them to help their loved onewho's going through trauma?
So things for themselves andthings for their loved one.
SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
I think talking about self-care is really
important.
Um, there is, you know,potentially having their own
individual therapist to talk toand help support them through
it.
Caregiver support is such a hugeissue.
Um, and unfortunately, there'slike a lot of lack of resources
available and it can be hard toaccess it.
So giving them the resources todo that, maybe making a referral
(17:14):
to a therapist.
One of the things I guess I'veseen as a clinician a lot is
that sometimes when people willinadvertently help people stay
in that trauma cycle.
So, for example, a lot of timesI hear people don't want to
who've gone through trauma,don't want to go out to a
restaurant and have their backto oh, like out to um just the
(17:36):
environment.
They want to be back to thewall, be able to see exits, that
kind of stuff.
And the significant others havejust gotten used to it and let
it keep happening.
But at a certain point intreatment, you have to get okay
with that.
And so teaching them, like,yeah, this might have worked for
a while, but we're gonna have tobe uncomfortable for a while.
It's gonna be difficult for themto do that, but let's not keep
them in the same cycle.
(17:56):
So, really showing them somestuff that they can do that can
be helpful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
So Bob.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
No, you know, just one fascinating thing I just
thought of.
So, you know, a lot of what'sdone in trauma is after someone
has experienced trauma or theyhave PTSD.
You know, so we are justlaunching this first responders
resiliency program, and we gottogether an advisory board of
(18:29):
various police officers,firefighters, and military folks
from all angles, some NavySEALs, and this and that.
And one of the outcomes intalking to them that we put into
the first responder uh was amental health resiliency drill.
(18:49):
So their basic thing was uhokay, it's great that we get
support uh when we're we havetrauma or we're we may be
experiencing it.
Uh what can we do to prepare?
Like the Navy SEAL said we gothrough all types of training on
the physiology of what we do andsome mental health, but so they
(19:11):
suggested so we created thesemental health uh drills.
So, for example, one of the guysas a one-year-old said, Hey, I
walked into this home, there wasa five-month-old dying.
I tried to resuscitate mouth tomouth, couldn't do it.
The kid died in front of me.
I go home, I got a one-year-old,I'm freaking out, you know.
(19:33):
So they gave us these examples.
So we're taking scenarios andwe're saying, Hey, okay, as a
police officer, you'reexperiencing this little kid
doing this.
How does that make you feel?
Okay, what do you think youwould do?
And then we have drills to say,here's some other alternatives,
like Jessica said, halt.
Like, so what we're trying to doin advance is not have them
(19:59):
ruminate but change their mind.
Try to give some some training,it's not never a magic bullet,
you know.
So, Nicole, on your end, likewhen you're just talking to
people and you say, Hey, when doyou go into a dark place?
Like, what are some things youkind of tell people to try to
think about when they're goinginto a dark place?
(20:22):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, what are some of thethings there like in their mind?
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Is that what you mean?
Not literally.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, so part of my job,I have to have people go through
their traumatic events with me.
And it's really awkward anddifficult for people because
they've just met me and I havean hour's time to get this
information out of them.
And one of the things that Ireally do is just acknowledge
(20:48):
this is gonna be difficult.
This can cause anxiety for you,and check in and say, how are
you feeling about this?
Um, and then I just letting themhave that experience and showing
them that it's okay, that I candeal with this.
And one of the things I've oftentold people is you've already
probably been through the worstthing that's gonna happen in
(21:08):
your life and you survived it.
You can survive talking aboutit, you can survive thinking
about it.
You are a survivor.
So these thoughts can't hurt youanymore.
And if we can get them out andtalk about them and process them
in a different way, maybe you'llfeel better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Yeah.
And Jessica, knowing you foryears, you've gone through some
very interesting things in yourlife, you know, from childhood
to adult, some ups and downs.
Like personally, what techniqueshave you used to try not to
ruminate and deal with stuff, ifyou don't mind sharing some of
(21:46):
those?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Yeah.
I think um rumination is a trapthat we get sucked into
sometimes, and it's really hardto get out of it.
I think um turning on yourobserver and realizing, okay,
I'm just ruminating, right?
That's all it is.
There's nothing in my now momentthat is hurting me.
Um, I am safe and remindingyourself that you are safe.
(22:10):
It is okay.
This is just a moment, right?
But when we get stuck inrumination, we relive some of
those things.
And it could be the events ofthe past, it could be the
stories that we told ourselvesto survive those events, right?
And you internalize that.
Um, I think building a supportnetwork around you who you're
(22:34):
safe to talk to about yourstory.
Um, and having, you know, backto Shelly's question about the
caregivers, having caregiverswho are comfortable enough to
sit with you in thoseuncomfortable moments.
Um, and that could be as muchand as simple as, you know,
(22:54):
trying not to trigger your lovedones when you are in like a
state of rumination, right?
And so that could be like, let'ssay I'm struggling and my
husband sees that.
Um, he may not know what'shappening inside.
He may just see the surfacelevel emotions of I'm withdrawn,
I seem a little sad, a littleoff.
(23:15):
Um, his trick that he's learnedover the years is to say, Is it
me?
And I'll say, No, it's not you,right?
And that instantly shifts thedynamic between us so that he
can show up as a whole safeperson, not coming into the, you
know, the drama of that moment,feeling like you know, he's
(23:37):
gonna get attacked.
He can just hold space for me.
Um, so I think you know, havingyour safe people who can sit in
that with you is reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
You know, we've talked so far about circle of
support, we've talked aboutfamily, clinicians, people you
can count on, maybe communitypeople, um, people in your faith
circle.
What about, Nicole?
We always talk about this.
We spend so much time at work,right?
(24:08):
Majority of our time for thoseworking folks is in the
workplace or in a remoteenvironment where you're
supporting your workplace.
What about the employer's rolein a psychologically safe
environment?
What about their role?
How can they help employees whoare going through traumatic
events or have gone throughtrauma?
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
I think knowing what having and knowing the resources
that are available for help.
So a lot of pro uh companieswill have employee assistant
programs that they can refer tofor therapy and letting the
employee know about these thingsare available.
We can get help and letting themknow it's okay to ask for help.
I think having a culture of umunderstanding mental health and
(24:48):
that it is, I mean, it is healthcare.
It is something that we shouldbe treating.
It is important and it can makea huge difference in whether
employees show up for work, havetheir productivity.
So, really being pro-mentalhealth treatment and showing
that having access to that canbe helpful.
I think making reasonableaccommodations can be very easy
(25:09):
for people to do.
You know, I used to uh work at aVA where one of my colleagues
was a combat veteran and he hadfairly severe PTSD.
And one of the things that wouldhappen is they made his office
set up where his back was to thedoor and he hated it.
So he came up with an idea onhis own to just put a rear view
mirror up on his cubicle so thatway he could see was who behind
(25:32):
him.
And that made a huge difference.
So, you know, setting up theenvironment to make it more
comfortable for them, havingthose accommodations and really
being pro-mental healthtreatment, I think can be
helpful for employers.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
You know, Nicole, one interesting thing.
So uh one of our advisors is uhpolice officer Sergeant Stovell
from the Billings, Montana.
And to your point about the rearrumor, he gave us a story uh on
video um in one of our webinarswhere he put a gun up his, he
(26:10):
took his gun out, put it up hismouth, and he was about to pull
the trigger, but he was lookingat the refrigerator, he was in
his kitchen, and he saw apicture of his kids.
And he immediately withdrew thegun.
So now what he does is hecarries the picture of his kids,
like you're saying with the rearview mirror.
(26:34):
So I think those are interestingtechniques to tell people like
what is it that can help you ina moment to change your room and
right?
Like what is it?
Is it a saying?
Is it a song?
Is it a picture of you?
You know, is it something assimple as taking a walk or
seeing a window?
Like, you know, uh those arekind of fascinating things.
(26:59):
So I don't know if Jessica orNicole, if there's any other
specific things that like anyother stories like that that you
know, something specific haschanged someone's perspective or
outlook or you know, what theydo or live, or how you get
someone to realize that, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (27:22):
Jess, do you have anything on that one?
SPEAKER_03 (27:25):
I say so individualized.
Um but I think in general, eachof us has something to live for.
And so if we can pause andidentify that, like what is
every like every lesson I'veever learned in life has taught
(27:46):
me something that I carryforward and I can apply, right?
And so all the experiences thatI've learned has has shaped how
I show up as a mom, right?
And that that's my frame ofreference.
Um, so I think helping people tofind their their purpose and
their meaning to keep going canbe very helpful, whatever that
(28:08):
is for the individual.
A lot of times it is family.
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
Yeah, you know, one interesting note on that, what I
found from doing our work aroundthe world that outlook is one of
the hugest things that you needto get at.
So if two people have a similarclinical diagnosis or traumatic
experience or whatever, and Ijust ask, okay, Shelly, what's
(28:36):
your outlook?
Not your health, your mental,your trauma, what's your outlook
over the next five years?
And Shelly says, I don't want tofive, let's say.
So Shelly says four.
I know I'm going through this,but I feel pretty good.
And Jessica says, a one.
I'm a loser, you know, myhusband left me.
(28:58):
You know, uh, I I I you knowthen what we try to do in the
digital, or what a human, youknow, how do we get Jessica to
go to a two or three or four andmeasure that?
Because you know, her view ofher future may have everything
to do if Jessica decides to harmherself or harm somebody else.
(29:21):
So, yeah, that's one of theinteresting things I think I've
found on outlook is a big thing.
So I don't know, Nicole orJessica, are there other
personality things or thingslike outlook that you find um
either emotionally or physicallymatter when you're trying to
help someone through something?
(29:42):
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Um, one of the things I'll do in that situation
is um I'll try to get it a senseof who they are as a person,
what they like, what they liketo do, what's important to them.
So I'll get a lot of people whoare like, I really like um
walking my dog.
And I'll be like, oh, I'll askfollow-up questions, like, what
kind of dog do you have?
Tell me about that.
Your dog seems really importantto you.
(30:05):
They're like, I really likegoing to my uh grandkids'
sporting events.
Oh, how many grandkids do youhave?
Like getting to know thatperson, getting them to talk
about those things with you as aclinician, I think helps build
that rapport, which is importantand shows that you care about
them, but also gives them someperspective of like, I do have
these things in my life thatmatter, and the people that
really care that I'm here andreasons to live.
(30:27):
So I think trying to engage themand get to know them as a whole
person can be helpful too.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
And taking that back a step, Nicole, that was a
perfect segue.
We actually have a question fromone of our listeners.
What would be the number onething for somebody who's in a
rut, in a hole, feeling down andout?
What could be that one actionthat you could suggest to them,
that first step to take towardsopening the doors of
(30:55):
communication and accessing theresources around them?
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
You know, I think the most important part of that
is having those resourcesavailable.
As no matter what type ofclinician you are or what kind
of care you're providing, havingthose things in hand.
So one of the things I'll oftendo with people, I'll um,
especially veterans, I'll askthem, do you know how to access
VA care?
A lot of times they don't.
It can be a really complicatedsituation.
(31:20):
So I'll take the time and belike, this is the number you
need to call.
These are these are the stepsthat you need to go through in
order to actually getestablished there.
These are your treatmentoptions.
So as a clinician, having thosethings and the access to them
and the numbers available, Ithink is really important.
So you're kind of doing some ofthe work for them and letting
them know what that treatmentmight look like is important
(31:41):
too, because it can be reallyscary to you know have to face
these things and to do thesetreatments and to even just pick
up that call.
That phone can weigh a thousandpounds when somebody is thinking
about getting mental healthtreatment, and that can be a
huge barrier.
So just talking to them aboutwhat it looks like and answering
any questions they might have.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
Setting it up, framing it up for them, laying
it out so they know what toexpect.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
Right.
And in some systems too, you canmake that actual referral.
So the VA is really good aboutthat, where like you can go to
your primary care provider andsay, I'd like to see mental
health, and they put in areferral, and someone with and
from mental health is going tocall you, you know, having those
systems set up or that you canactually get the organization to
be a part of it as well.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
And I hope for our listeners, if anybody heard that
and um is listening and needsthat one piece of information,
that one access point, thinkabout what Nicole shared there.
Reach out, get the help that youneed.
We encourage everybody to dothat because everybody can use
some help in different times ofour lives.
(32:44):
Um, so thank you for asking thatquestion.
And um we want to hear thevoices of our other listeners.
We want to hear from you.
So please continue to submityour questions either for Nicole
and Jess, and we'll get themanswered in a future episode or
for future topics that we'll beposting and promoting.
You can DM us on our socialchannels at Gomo Health.
(33:05):
And Nicole and Jess, just towrap it up.
Um, thank you both for joiningus and for sharing your
perspective on this very, veryimportant issue.
And listeners, if you've enjoyedwhat you heard, please subscribe
and submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
And for more expert insightsinto the world of healthcare,
visit us at gomohealth.com andbe sure to tune in on Thursday
(33:30):
to catch our freshest content.
Thanks for joining us and thanksfor listening.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Well, thank you, ladies.
SPEAKER_02 (33:40):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
Yeah.
But also gives them some perspective of like I do
have these things in my lifethat matter, and the people that
really care that I'm here andreasons to live.
So I think trying to engage themand get to know them as a whole
person can be helpful too.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at Gomo Health.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
And I'm Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealthcare, what it means, why
it matters, and how it can makea difference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
For millions of people, fromfirst responders to children in
(01:00):
foster care and others along thecourse of their lives, trauma
isn't a rare event.
It's part of their daily living.
And what we do to help them andcare for them and communicate
with them can make a hugedifference between their healing
and getting them to where theyshould be, getting them to where
(01:20):
they should be, and uh in somecases, unfortunately, them
progressing to further harm andincreasing their trauma.
So today we're joined byregistered nurse Jessica
Anderson and clinicalpsychologist Dr.
Nicole Blazik, both experts intrauma-informed care.
And we're going to talk abouthow we can better support those
(01:42):
who are going through trauma orhave been through trauma and how
we can engage them withtechnology and human
connections, both in person andremotely digitally.
So welcome, Jessica and Dr.
Blazik.
Good to have you both here.
And uh let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah, so Jessica and Nicole, if each of you would
introduce yourselves, tell us alittle bit about your expertise,
and tell us a little story ofwhy you got into it or what
brought you to this uh type ofwork.
So, Nicole, why don't you gofirst?
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Good afternoon.
Thank you so much for invitingme to participate in this
discussion today.
So I'm a clinical psychologistand I've been seeing patients
for nearly 20 years.
For the past 10 years, I've beenworking mostly with veterans,
completing evaluations for theVA.
I worked in a variety ofsettings, including outpatient
clinics, inpatient psychiatricunits, a federal prison, and at
the VA.
(02:45):
Not surprisingly, I'veencountered patients who have
experienced trauma in all thosesettings.
As for how I got into this work,I've always just been fascinated
by mental illness and howpeople's minds work.
I think being able to helpsomeone improve their mental
health and lives is such arewarding experience.
You know, I've seen some amazingrecoveries in my clinical
practice, and it's just such aprivilege to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Well, thank you.
And Jessica Anderson.
SPEAKER_03 (03:12):
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
My name is Jessica Anderson.
I'm a registered nurse by trade.
I spent much of my careerworking in the behavioral health
space in one way or another.
I keep coming back to it.
Much of my direct patient careexperience is in the pediatric
psych population, predominantlyin pediatric residential
(03:32):
treatment centers.
So that's where kids live andreceive intense support outside
of the home environment.
In terms of what brought me intothis work, I think I've always
had a passion for trying tounderstand why people act the
way they do.
And if I'm honest, my favoritepart of life is talking to
people and holding space forthem to share their stories and
(03:53):
feel heard.
So thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
So, Nicole, I'm going to switch to Nicole and
not Dr.
Blazik because it just feels alot more comfortable that way.
Is that cool?
I wish you would.
All righty.
We got it then.
Just if we can just start with adefinition, just so we're sure
we're all on the same page andunderstanding what does
trauma-informed care mean.
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
So at the most basic level, trauma-informed care
really is healthcare providersand organizations understanding
how trauma can affect anindividual in a clinical
setting, and then also in theireveryday lives, and then
implementing policies and bestpractices to help promote a
positive, safe, supportiveenvironment that promotes
healing and recovery.
(04:40):
And I think when clinicians kindof develop this understanding of
patient life experiences, theycan provide more effective care
and it can help improve patientoutcomes and whether patients
stay in treatment.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
All right, thank you.
Now, Jess, let's let's transferthat over and talk about if
those things that Nicole justdescribed, the hurdles and the
challenges, if those aren'taddressed in the various
environments that Nicole alsomentioned, whether it be a
school setting for kids or acamp, a recreational setting, or
(05:13):
for an adult in family life orin their employment, what are
the risks that we're looking atwhen those things aren't
addressed properly?
SPEAKER_03 (05:21):
Yeah, so I think that's a really good question.
Um, and I love Nicole'sdefinition of trauma-informed
care.
To dive into a definition oftrauma, I really like how Dr.
Gabor Matei defines trauma.
Um and he says it's not whathappens to us, it happens, it's
what happens inside of us.
(05:42):
Um, and so that's a reallyinteresting frame of reference
to understand, especially as youlook at how trauma and you know
big events can impact peopledifferently.
So it might be first responderson a call, it could be ER
nurses, um, you know, working acode, it could even be siblings
in the same household with thesame parents.
(06:02):
You're experiencing like you arein that same environment, but
you are experiencing itdifferently, which can help
explain like why one person onthe fire department, you know,
goes to that call and walks awayseemingly unscathed, but another
one is like stuck in that momentand can't get out of that.
So I think when we talk about,you know, what are the risks
(06:25):
when we don't recognize trauma?
Um one of the biggest risks isthat we inadvertently
re-traumatize people, and thatcan look many different ways.
Um, and most of the time, thatre-traumatization is
unintentional because we don'trecognize that someone is
struggling, and so weinadvertently keep bumping up
(06:47):
against that wound.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, so um Nicole and even for Jessica, so it's
interesting.
So, you know, if you're let'ssay an alcoholic in recovery,
you know, one of the firstthings is just trying to get the
person to say, Hey, I need help.
I'm you know, an alcoholic forthem to express it, which is
(07:15):
cathartic, or at least to admitin order to go down.
So what what do you find likewhen you're first meeting
somebody who maybe has had atraumatic experience or comes
from a lot of trauma?
What do you do to help themrecognize the issues they're
(07:40):
having associated with that, orare they are they clear on that?
Like, what do you do initially,Nicole, when you're meeting
people?
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
In terms of helping them recognize like their
trauma?
You know, I I think a lot ofpeople come in and they already
have an understanding of whatthey've been through.
Um, I think substance use iskind of a different topic and it
often does go along with trauma.
Um, there's some good treatmentsout there, like motivational
interviewing that people couldbecome trained in to help people
(08:11):
um kind of buy into treatmentand acknowledge that they have
an issue or a problem that theyneed to work on.
I think one of the mostimportant things in
trauma-informed care and just incare in general is really
developing that rapport andgetting the buy-in from the
patient, making it acollaborative experience.
It shouldn't just be me as aprofessional thing, well, you've
got trauma, so we have to do X,Y, and Z, and you have to be on
(08:34):
board right now.
I think there is a warming upprocess, a rapport-building
process that is just essentialto get the um people who have
experienced trauma intotreatment that can be really
helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Yeah, Jess, any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, you know, in workingwith children, and we can all
look at our own childhoodexperiences, right?
But especially the kids that Iworked with, you know, kids
don't have the words necessarilyto define something as trauma.
Um, and when you have it in yourlived environment over extended
(09:10):
periods of time and you have nocontext as to the outside world,
what it should look like, likewhat's a warm and inviting and
loving family unit look like,um, you don't really recognize
that it's not healthy.
So I think, you know, as Nicolewas talking about being that
safe person and building thatrapport, trust and credibility
(09:32):
is huge.
Um, no one will open up and talkto you and tell you anything to
get any sort of help if you'renot willing to sit there in the
uncomfortable moments and askthose open-ended questions to
really get to the nut of what'shappening.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, just to stay on children for a
second, you mentioned Dr.
Mate.
So, you know, if you'reexperiencing traumas uh from
birth that you don't know about,you know, your brain changes
some of the synaptic connectionsand rewires itself to protect
(10:10):
your brain and your body.
But then that carries throughsometimes adults with where
those types of people, let's sayin child welfare, foster care,
tend to disassociate with theworld because that's what they
did as a young person to protectthemselves from their
environment, you know, thatdisassociation, you know.
(10:31):
So, Nicole, getting back to you,so if someone, let's say, has
traumatic experiences and nowthey're isolated or from a
psychological safety has chosento isolate themselves, you know,
what types of things do you door tell them, or are there
(10:54):
things they can practice or doon their own to sort of form
relationships or buildrelationships from a social
connectedness perspective?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
I mean, that's a good question.
I would say there are it's hardfor people who have gone through
trauma to trust other people.
Like that's one of the biggestthings that I hear is that I
don't trust anybody.
The world's really unsafe.
Um, and so I say to myself, Idon't have friends, I don't talk
to anybody.
And I think part of at leastfrom the mental health side of
(11:28):
treatment, is really teachingpeople that not everybody is
dangerous.
We can form these relationshipsand teaching them how to go out
and do that, even just doingbaby steps.
So, just a clear behavioral planof okay, go out and try and
spend five minutes in public orjust talk to one person, make
reach out to one person, likesmall things like that can make
a huge difference.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, you know, just to comment on that.
So at Gomo Health, our scienceto help people with trauma is
called behavioral RX.
And because we're delivering itand engaging you in a
personalized but digitalconversation, a lot of times
(12:13):
people are more honest and openbecause they don't have to look
a person in the face and saythings, and then we give them
little things to do to practiceon their own.
So it's interesting.
What we found uh successful inorder for people to get back to
(12:35):
kind of a healthier, betterlifestyle for themselves is they
both have to believe thatwhoever is talking to them or
sending them information aboutwhat to do, they find that
person or thing they trust it,they find it credible.
But just as important, they haveto find themselves.
(12:57):
Can I do I trust myself to goout to get a full-time job?
Do I trust myself to get backyou know to life and friends?
And do I find myself credible?
So I I found it interesting.
It's trust and credibility workboth for the person and the and
the professional trying toengage them.
(13:20):
And Jess, I know that you knoworiginally you did this human to
human, you know, and now at Gomoyou've developed a lot of
programs.
You've been part of a lot ofprograms that engage people
digitally who are still seeinghuman providers.
And, you know, what are some ofyour learnings from having that
(13:42):
combination of health at homeengagement along with seeing a
professional like Nicole?
SPEAKER_03 (13:50):
Yeah, for sure.
I think one of the benefits ofyou know digital engagement
solutions, especially in thisspace, is that you can scale the
resource in education.
Um, so that's really helpful.
You can also spread it out overtime.
So where clinicians in thein-person setting or even like a
(14:10):
virtual um you know therapysession, you are time limited
with that interaction.
Um, but trauma comes up at themost random times, right?
And it it doesn't have businesshours.
So it can come up and rear itshead at 10 a, you know, 10 p.m.
on a Saturday night, and youdon't have access to that
(14:32):
clinician.
But digital engagement solutionscan kind of be a tether there so
someone can reach out um intothat program.
And, you know, you know, for ourum substance use disorder
programs, we have a keywordcalled HALT.
It's hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
And someone in the program cantext that when they're feeling
(14:55):
an urge to use or do, you know,something that they know is
detrimental and they get in themoment feedback and guidance to
support them, to kind of, youknow, remind them to like take a
walk for 15 minutes, go do somethings that will calm you down,
this too shall pass, those kindof things to help.
So I think that accessibility isreally important and helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
You know, that's interesting, Jess.
And when you bring that up, thedigital compliment to the
in-person, Nicole, just thinkingabout other compliments to that
in-person uh relationship thatyou're building with the people
that you're helping.
What about the caregiver?
What about their circles ofinfluence and their supports if
they have them, which hopefullythey do, community, family,
(15:40):
friends, otherwise?
How what are strategies to getthem involved in supporting the
person who's gone through thesetraumatic experiences?
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
So, I mean, a lot of times clinicians might have a
spouse come into a treatmentsession and kind of explain to
them, hey, this is what traumalooks like.
Because, you know, it's noteverybody has a good
understanding of what PTSD mightlook like for people.
And they might think they'rejust being difficult or
antisocial.
Um, and so giving them thatpsychoeducation of this is what
(16:14):
trauma looks like, this is howit affects people, this might be
why your loved one is actingthat way, I think is a really
important part of it.
And then giving them the skillsto support that person in a way
that's going to help them growand move past it as opposed to
kind of staying stuck in it isalso really important.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
And what might some of those recommendations be?
I realize even for a caregiver,there are things that they need,
tools that they need forthemselves on how to kind of
coach themselves through helpingtheir loved one.
And then what are some of thetools that might be suggested to
them to help their loved onewho's going through trauma?
So things for themselves andthings for their loved one.
SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
I think talking about self-care is really
important.
Um, there is, you know,potentially having their own
individual therapist to talk toand help support them through
it.
Caregiver support is such a hugeissue.
Um, and unfortunately, there'slike a lot of lack of resources
available and it can be hard toaccess it.
So giving them the resources todo that, maybe making a referral
(17:14):
to a therapist.
One of the things I guess I'veseen as a clinician a lot is
that sometimes when people willinadvertently help people stay
in that trauma cycle.
So, for example, a lot of timesI hear people don't want to
who've gone through trauma,don't want to go out to a
restaurant and have their backto oh, like out to um just the
(17:36):
environment.
They want to be back to thewall, be able to see exits, that
kind of stuff.
And the significant others havejust gotten used to it and let
it keep happening.
But at a certain point intreatment, you have to get okay
with that.
And so teaching them, like,yeah, this might have worked for
a while, but we're gonna have tobe uncomfortable for a while.
It's gonna be difficult for themto do that, but let's not keep
them in the same cycle.
(17:56):
So, really showing them somestuff that they can do that can
be helpful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
So Bob.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
No, you know, just one fascinating thing I just
thought of.
So, you know, a lot of what'sdone in trauma is after someone
has experienced trauma or theyhave PTSD.
You know, so we are justlaunching this first responders
resiliency program, and we gottogether an advisory board of
(18:29):
various police officers,firefighters, and military folks
from all angles, some NavySEALs, and this and that.
And one of the outcomes intalking to them that we put into
the first responder uh was amental health resiliency drill.
(18:49):
So their basic thing was uhokay, it's great that we get
support uh when we're we havetrauma or we're we may be
experiencing it.
Uh what can we do to prepare?
Like the Navy SEAL said we gothrough all types of training on
the physiology of what we do andsome mental health, but so they
(19:11):
suggested so we created thesemental health uh drills.
So, for example, one of the guysas a one-year-old said, Hey, I
walked into this home, there wasa five-month-old dying.
I tried to resuscitate mouth tomouth, couldn't do it.
The kid died in front of me.
I go home, I got a one-year-old,I'm freaking out, you know.
(19:33):
So they gave us these examples.
So we're taking scenarios andwe're saying, Hey, okay, as a
police officer, you'reexperiencing this little kid
doing this.
How does that make you feel?
Okay, what do you think youwould do?
And then we have drills to say,here's some other alternatives,
like Jessica said, halt.
Like, so what we're trying to doin advance is not have them
(19:59):
ruminate but change their mind.
Try to give some some training,it's not never a magic bullet,
you know.
So, Nicole, on your end, likewhen you're just talking to
people and you say, Hey, when doyou go into a dark place?
Like, what are some things youkind of tell people to try to
think about when they're goinginto a dark place?
(20:22):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, what are some of thethings there like in their mind?
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Is that what you mean?
Not literally.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, so part of my job,I have to have people go through
their traumatic events with me.
And it's really awkward anddifficult for people because
they've just met me and I havean hour's time to get this
information out of them.
And one of the things that Ireally do is just acknowledge
(20:48):
this is gonna be difficult.
This can cause anxiety for you,and check in and say, how are
you feeling about this?
Um, and then I just letting themhave that experience and showing
them that it's okay, that I candeal with this.
And one of the things I've oftentold people is you've already
probably been through the worstthing that's gonna happen in
(21:08):
your life and you survived it.
You can survive talking aboutit, you can survive thinking
about it.
You are a survivor.
So these thoughts can't hurt youanymore.
And if we can get them out andtalk about them and process them
in a different way, maybe you'llfeel better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Yeah.
And Jessica, knowing you foryears, you've gone through some
very interesting things in yourlife, you know, from childhood
to adult, some ups and downs.
Like personally, what techniqueshave you used to try not to
ruminate and deal with stuff, ifyou don't mind sharing some of
(21:46):
those?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Yeah.
I think um rumination is a trapthat we get sucked into
sometimes, and it's really hardto get out of it.
I think um turning on yourobserver and realizing, okay,
I'm just ruminating, right?
That's all it is.
There's nothing in my now momentthat is hurting me.
Um, I am safe and remindingyourself that you are safe.
(22:10):
It is okay.
This is just a moment, right?
But when we get stuck inrumination, we relive some of
those things.
And it could be the events ofthe past, it could be the
stories that we told ourselvesto survive those events, right?
And you internalize that.
Um, I think building a supportnetwork around you who you're
(22:34):
safe to talk to about yourstory.
Um, and having, you know, backto Shelly's question about the
caregivers, having caregiverswho are comfortable enough to
sit with you in thoseuncomfortable moments.
Um, and that could be as muchand as simple as, you know,
(22:54):
trying not to trigger your lovedones when you are in like a
state of rumination, right?
And so that could be like, let'ssay I'm struggling and my
husband sees that.
Um, he may not know what'shappening inside.
He may just see the surfacelevel emotions of I'm withdrawn,
I seem a little sad, a littleoff.
(23:15):
Um, his trick that he's learnedover the years is to say, Is it
me?
And I'll say, No, it's not you,right?
And that instantly shifts thedynamic between us so that he
can show up as a whole safeperson, not coming into the, you
know, the drama of that moment,feeling like you know, he's
(23:37):
gonna get attacked.
He can just hold space for me.
Um, so I think you know, havingyour safe people who can sit in
that with you is reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
You know, we've talked so far about circle of
support, we've talked aboutfamily, clinicians, people you
can count on, maybe communitypeople, um, people in your faith
circle.
What about, Nicole?
We always talk about this.
We spend so much time at work,right?
(24:08):
Majority of our time for thoseworking folks is in the
workplace or in a remoteenvironment where you're
supporting your workplace.
What about the employer's rolein a psychologically safe
environment?
What about their role?
How can they help employees whoare going through traumatic
events or have gone throughtrauma?
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
I think knowing what having and knowing the resources
that are available for help.
So a lot of pro uh companieswill have employee assistant
programs that they can refer tofor therapy and letting the
employee know about these thingsare available.
We can get help and letting themknow it's okay to ask for help.
I think having a culture of umunderstanding mental health and
(24:48):
that it is, I mean, it is healthcare.
It is something that we shouldbe treating.
It is important and it can makea huge difference in whether
employees show up for work, havetheir productivity.
So, really being pro-mentalhealth treatment and showing
that having access to that canbe helpful.
I think making reasonableaccommodations can be very easy
(25:09):
for people to do.
You know, I used to uh work at aVA where one of my colleagues
was a combat veteran and he hadfairly severe PTSD.
And one of the things that wouldhappen is they made his office
set up where his back was to thedoor and he hated it.
So he came up with an idea onhis own to just put a rear view
mirror up on his cubicle so thatway he could see was who behind
(25:32):
him.
And that made a huge difference.
So, you know, setting up theenvironment to make it more
comfortable for them, havingthose accommodations and really
being pro-mental healthtreatment, I think can be
helpful for employers.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
You know, Nicole, one interesting thing.
So uh one of our advisors is uhpolice officer Sergeant Stovell
from the Billings, Montana.
And to your point about the rearrumor, he gave us a story uh on
video um in one of our webinarswhere he put a gun up his, he
(26:10):
took his gun out, put it up hismouth, and he was about to pull
the trigger, but he was lookingat the refrigerator, he was in
his kitchen, and he saw apicture of his kids.
And he immediately withdrew thegun.
So now what he does is hecarries the picture of his kids,
like you're saying with the rearview mirror.
(26:34):
So I think those are interestingtechniques to tell people like
what is it that can help you ina moment to change your room and
right?
Like what is it?
Is it a saying?
Is it a song?
Is it a picture of you?
You know, is it something assimple as taking a walk or
seeing a window?
Like, you know, uh those arekind of fascinating things.
(26:59):
So I don't know if Jessica orNicole, if there's any other
specific things that like anyother stories like that that you
know, something specific haschanged someone's perspective or
outlook or you know, what theydo or live, or how you get
someone to realize that, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (27:22):
Jess, do you have anything on that one?
SPEAKER_03 (27:25):
I say so individualized.
Um but I think in general, eachof us has something to live for.
And so if we can pause andidentify that, like what is
every like every lesson I'veever learned in life has taught
(27:46):
me something that I carryforward and I can apply, right?
And so all the experiences thatI've learned has has shaped how
I show up as a mom, right?
And that that's my frame ofreference.
Um, so I think helping people tofind their their purpose and
their meaning to keep going canbe very helpful, whatever that
(28:08):
is for the individual.
A lot of times it is family.
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
Yeah, you know, one interesting note on that, what I
found from doing our work aroundthe world that outlook is one of
the hugest things that you needto get at.
So if two people have a similarclinical diagnosis or traumatic
experience or whatever, and Ijust ask, okay, Shelly, what's
(28:36):
your outlook?
Not your health, your mental,your trauma, what's your outlook
over the next five years?
And Shelly says, I don't want tofive, let's say.
So Shelly says four.
I know I'm going through this,but I feel pretty good.
And Jessica says, a one.
I'm a loser, you know, myhusband left me.
(28:58):
You know, uh, I I I you knowthen what we try to do in the
digital, or what a human, youknow, how do we get Jessica to
go to a two or three or four andmeasure that?
Because you know, her view ofher future may have everything
to do if Jessica decides to harmherself or harm somebody else.
(29:21):
So, yeah, that's one of theinteresting things I think I've
found on outlook is a big thing.
So I don't know, Nicole orJessica, are there other
personality things or thingslike outlook that you find um
either emotionally or physicallymatter when you're trying to
help someone through something?
(29:42):
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Um, one of the things I'll do in that situation
is um I'll try to get it a senseof who they are as a person,
what they like, what they liketo do, what's important to them.
So I'll get a lot of people whoare like, I really like um
walking my dog.
And I'll be like, oh, I'll askfollow-up questions, like, what
kind of dog do you have?
Tell me about that.
Your dog seems really importantto you.
(30:05):
They're like, I really likegoing to my uh grandkids'
sporting events.
Oh, how many grandkids do youhave?
Like getting to know thatperson, getting them to talk
about those things with you as aclinician, I think helps build
that rapport, which is importantand shows that you care about
them, but also gives them someperspective of like, I do have
these things in my life thatmatter, and the people that
really care that I'm here andreasons to live.
(30:27):
So I think trying to engage themand get to know them as a whole
person can be helpful too.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
And taking that back a step, Nicole, that was a
perfect segue.
We actually have a question fromone of our listeners.
What would be the number onething for somebody who's in a
rut, in a hole, feeling down andout?
What could be that one actionthat you could suggest to them,
that first step to take towardsopening the doors of
(30:55):
communication and accessing theresources around them?
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
You know, I think the most important part of that
is having those resourcesavailable.
As no matter what type ofclinician you are or what kind
of care you're providing, havingthose things in hand.
So one of the things I'll oftendo with people, I'll um,
especially veterans, I'll askthem, do you know how to access
VA care?
A lot of times they don't.
It can be a really complicatedsituation.
(31:20):
So I'll take the time and belike, this is the number you
need to call.
These are these are the stepsthat you need to go through in
order to actually getestablished there.
These are your treatmentoptions.
So as a clinician, having thosethings and the access to them
and the numbers available, Ithink is really important.
So you're kind of doing some ofthe work for them and letting
them know what that treatmentmight look like is important
(31:41):
too, because it can be reallyscary to you know have to face
these things and to do thesetreatments and to even just pick
up that call.
That phone can weigh a thousandpounds when somebody is thinking
about getting mental healthtreatment, and that can be a
huge barrier.
So just talking to them aboutwhat it looks like and answering
any questions they might have.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
Setting it up, framing it up for them, laying
it out so they know what toexpect.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
Right.
And in some systems too, you canmake that actual referral.
So the VA is really good aboutthat, where like you can go to
your primary care provider andsay, I'd like to see mental
health, and they put in areferral, and someone with and
from mental health is going tocall you, you know, having those
systems set up or that you canactually get the organization to
be a part of it as well.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
And I hope for our listeners, if anybody heard that
and um is listening and needsthat one piece of information,
that one access point, thinkabout what Nicole shared there.
Reach out, get the help that youneed.
We encourage everybody to dothat because everybody can use
some help in different times ofour lives.
(32:44):
Um, so thank you for asking thatquestion.
And um we want to hear thevoices of our other listeners.
We want to hear from you.
So please continue to submityour questions either for Nicole
and Jess, and we'll get themanswered in a future episode or
for future topics that we'll beposting and promoting.
You can DM us on our socialchannels at Gomo Health.
(33:05):
And Nicole and Jess, just towrap it up.
Um, thank you both for joiningus and for sharing your
perspective on this very, veryimportant issue.
And listeners, if you've enjoyedwhat you heard, please subscribe
and submit your questions and besure to like and comment on this
episode.
And for more expert insightsinto the world of healthcare,
visit us at gomohealth.com andbe sure to tune in on Thursday
(33:30):
to catch our freshest content.
Thanks for joining us and thanksfor listening.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Well, thank you, ladies.
SPEAKER_02 (33:40):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
Yeah.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!