October 29, 2025 • 31 mins
The foundation for student well-being is built long before the school day begins. In this episode of Human Resilience, hosts Bob Gold and Shelley Schoenfeld sit down with author and longtime school board member Scott Levy to explore how local school boards directly influence student mental health, resilience, and the culture that drives learning and well-being.
Scott unpacks what effective boards actually do—set goals, adopt policy, and approve budgets—while empowering superintendents and educators to carry out the mission.
Listen and Learn:
- How board-level decisions shape mental health and school climate
- Why emotional safety and academic performance are inseparable
- What data truly reflects student well-being—and what’s missing
- How behavioral health and prevention programs like GoMo Health’s digital engagement initiatives support schools, families, and staff
Whether you’re a parent, educator, or community member, this conversation offers a clear roadmap for fostering student well-being through leadership, empathy, and policy that puts people first.
Dive deeper into this topic with Scott's newly released book, "Why School Boards Matter."
Hosts
- Bob Gold, Chief Behavioral Technologist, GoMo Health
- Shelley Schoenfeld, Chief Strategist, GoMo Health
Featured Guests
- Scott Levy, Adjunct Lecturer, Harvard Graduate School of Education and Author “Why School Boards Matter”
Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe today to receive new episode drops, comment with questions for our hosts/guests and follow @GoMoHealth on social for the latest in healthcare engagement.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
The thing that happened as I was writing the
book is I realized given all ofthe polarization in our society
and all the division and all ofthe battles that have happened
over so many issues, I really dobelieve also that boards are a
way to enhance and strengthenour democracy because it allows
community members to come to theboardroom to express their
opinion in a way that is verydifficult to do quite the same
(00:30):
at other levels of government,and it really connects the
community to the schools, whichis a really important part of uh
good education in general.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at GOMO Health.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Hi, I'm Bob Gold, founder and chief behavioral
technologist at GOMO Health.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters, and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
Good morning, everybody.
We've explored a lot ofschool-aged issues in our
podcast and programs, andbefore, including mental health
(01:22):
and substance use in schools.
And today we're going to beexpanding on that by talking
about something that a lot ofpeople don't connect to student
well-being, but really should,and that's school boards.
And these elected groups don'tjust set budgets and policies,
but they shape school climateand trust with families and how
mental health and substance usechallenges are handled across a
(01:45):
district.
So we all know about youthanxiety and depression and
substance use and how it'sreally escalating, and they're
all at an all-time high,unfortunately.
And because of this, mentalhealth isn't really just a
guidance counselor office issue.
It goes beyond that.
It's a leadership responsibilitythat comes from the top.
(02:07):
And the tone for that leadershipis really set long before a
student walks into a classroomor a guidance counselor's
office.
It's set in the boardroom.
So joining us today is ScottLevy.
Scott is a longtime school boardmember.
He's a lecturer and an author ofa newly released book called Why
School Boards Matter (02:24):
Reclaiming the Heart of American Education
and Democracy.
Scott spent years on improvinggovernance and rebuilding trust
and creating environments wherestudents can thrive, not just
academically, but emotionally aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Yeah, so Scott, I've known Scott for a while.
He's been on our board ofdirectors.
He's been a wonderful member,has a very interesting career.
So, Scott, tell us a little bitabout you and what triggered you
to write this book, and thentell us a little bit about the
book.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, what triggered me to writethe book is during COVID, I
guess a lot of people had a lotof time during COVID, and I
noticed this big disconnect.
I had been on a school board formany years, very interested in
school governance and schoolpolicy.
And I remember when I first ranfor my board of education, I got
elected.
I was walking down the street inmy town, and somebody stopped me
and they said, Oh, Scott,congratulations on winning the
(03:21):
election.
Because now I'm going to see youon the video feed of the
meetings, because all of um theschool board meetings around the
country are you know are videoedand they're on the internet for
people to watch.
And I was excited because in2015, when I first won the
election, not a lot of peoplewere watching school board
meetings.
And then he goes on to say, Oh,yeah, I watched them when I have
trouble falling asleep, becauseback then they were, you know,
(03:42):
they were kind of boring, themundane budgets and policy
discussions that you might have.
And then we fast forward to2020.
And we know that what happenedin boardrooms all across the
country were battles aroundfirst reopening schools, then
masking and vaccine mandates,DEI, all of these issues.
And so I wanted to write a bookthat really tried to understand
what was going on, what washappening.
(04:03):
Has this always been the casewhere things have been you know
adjudicated in boardrooms, or isthis something new?
And my interest in um in all ofthis, you know, really dates
back to first being a volunteer.
I was in the world of business,um, focused mostly on corporate
boards.
And then my kids were of schoolage, and I started volunteering
for my district and got veryinvolved in education policy and
made my way you know onto theschool board as a way really to
(04:24):
make a difference.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
We'll we'll get into the book, but just out of
curiosity, what is the mainpoint that you were trying to
make with writing the book?
Like what were you trying toinfluence?
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
So I was making the point, and when I first started
writing the book, it was reallymostly about why school boards
have great potential to improvepublic schools and why there are
many things, even if the stateand federal governmental levels
are doing their job and beingreally thoughtful with policy,
even if they are, and they'renot, they aren't always, but
(05:01):
even if they are, at the locallevel, you can do things that
can't be done at other levels.
Like, for example, which isreally, I think, important for
this conversation, settingdistrict climate.
That's something that can onlyhappen at the local level
because you need to be withinthe organization, and the board
is within the organization.
The thing that happened as I waswriting the book is I realized,
given all of the polarization inour society and all the division
(05:24):
and all of the battles that havehappened over so many issues, I
really do believe also thatboards are a way to enhance and
strengthen our democracy becauseit allows community members to
come to the boardroom to expresstheir opinion in a way that is
very difficult to do quite thesame at other levels of
government.
And it really connects thecommunity to the schools, which
(05:45):
is a really important part of uhgood education in general.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Thanks, Scott.
I'm so excited to read your bookbecause it really sounds like it
makes a very clear connectionthat school boards aren't just
sitting in musty boardrooms andmaking policies and implementing
things that they're reallydistanced from.
They're really affecting thetrenches.
They're creating a culture andimpacting the culture within the
(06:12):
school that is then reflected inthe teacher's messaging and in
the experience that the kidsthat the students are getting.
So it's really important tothink about them in that regard,
in that what a school board doesinfluences the culture from all
of those different perspectivesfor the teachers, for
(06:33):
administration, for thestudents, the parents, and the
caregivers.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Now, how are boards made up?
Is there any mandate about thetype of profile on boards, or
it's just all who runs for aboard and then you get elected?
Are there any qualifications tobe on the board or no?
Typically.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
So this is democracy at its best.
Anyone of a certain age, usually18, you know, could be a school
board member.
They have to run in the electionand ultimately, you know,
prevail in that vote.
So it's very different than ifyou think about nonprofit
boards, university boards,corporate boards, where you may
say, you know what, I needsomebody with an accounting
background, I need someone witha technology background.
And what that means is that youcould have boards that may not
(07:20):
represent kind of like everyskill set that you need, but at
the same time, they're thegovernance body.
They're not running the schoolsday-to-day.
That's up to the superintendentand the superintendent's team.
And so what they need to do isbe able to ask really thoughtful
questions.
And there's this whole mechanismof professional development.
So if a board member is notcomfortable in a certain area,
they can go and get professionaldevelopment and learn about
(07:41):
whether it's education law,whether it's issues around
mental health prevention, um,whether it's issues about
curriculum, um, whether it'sissues about the budget and just
finance skills, there are waysto get a lot of training to try
to become a board member thatthat has those skills.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when you talk about,
let's say, connecting thecommunity to the school, you
know.
Um hating myself, there was anold movie starring Sidney
Cordier called To Sir With Love.
And uh he went into a school asa teacher and he had no
(08:22):
experience, and it was the arough school in a rough
neighborhood, and he taught themlife skills, you know, like life
skills, and so a question likein your experience in boards or
writing the book, you know, howdeep does a board go?
(08:44):
Because I just see from whatShelly opened up with a lot of
kids are missing various lifeskills they could know, learn
chemistry or history or but inthe end, you know, how do you
deal with life and thesurrounding and the growing
amount of information that mayaffect kids uh that's available.
(09:09):
How how do you what could be therole of a school board in
recommending how a culture of aschool and climate is governed?
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
So two let's talk about like two separate
components of that.
And they're connected for sure.
Um, one is curriculum and andthe other is just general school
climate.
So on the curriculum side, theboard doesn't necessarily have
the expertise to granularlyfigure out what the curriculum
should be, and you don't wantyour board starting to
micromanage exactly what kidsare learning in every class.
(09:44):
That would be incrediblydisingenuous and not the role of
the board.
But the board first off setsgoals.
So let's say you think that inyour district, students are not
graduating with the ability tokind of be able to use
technology effectively andefficiently and safely.
Maybe you have in your school astress and anxiety, you know,
(10:06):
and mental health crisis, andthat's something that you need
to address.
Maybe it's um financialliteracy, that's been a big
topic recently, being able tograduate and understand the
difference between credit carddebt and mortgage debt and how
to balance your checkbook andthat sort of thing.
If anybody writes checks, canyou help me?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Can you help me with all of that stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (10:23):
Come back to K-12.
Absolutely.
Right.
But so on on those fronts, itwould be perfectly appropriate
for a board to say, you knowwhat, this is going to be a
goal.
We're going to be focused onthis.
We know that this is a big issueand we need to do better.
And so we're going to sort ofset the organizational attention
and make sure that everybody'sfocused on it.
So setting goals is one way.
Then another way is policy.
(10:43):
So there are lots and lots ofpolicies that govern just how a
school functions.
And the board does set all thosepolicies.
They do it in a really publicway.
Um, community members can comeand comment before the policy is
adopted.
So that's another way.
Budget allocation.
So everything has its way, youknow, in some way, shape, or
form, rooting in the budget.
And so that allocation decisionof how the money is going to get
(11:06):
spent, are you going to hiremental health resources?
Are you going to hire somebodythat is going to be the head of
technology for the district?
And making those decisions aboutthese positions and funding
these positions, that's clearlyin the domain of the board
ratifying that.
Um, and then also high-levelcurriculum.
And so not at the micro level,but certainly at the high level.
(11:27):
What do we want the portrait ofa graduate to look like?
What skills do they need toknow?
Um, are we ensuring that they'regraduating and they're
successful if they go to collegeor go out into the workforce or
armed forces, whatever theychoose to do.
So that those are the ways inwhich the board can function.
And then and then measuringprogress, right?
Measuring progress, just tryingto figure out whether if there
(11:49):
is a particular problem andthere is a goal, then let's look
a year later and see if we'veimproved.
That's also an important role ofthe board.
And I could talk about climatein a second, but let me just
stop there for a sec.
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Scott, so that's really interesting.
I I would suspect that a lot ofpeople, even parents who are so
close to things for theirchildren and their schooling,
they probably really areunderestimating the impact and
the influence that uh the schoolboard has on their students
day-to-day.
And it's really everything fromfunding and training to the
(12:21):
curriculum priorities.
And all of those differentthings really impact the
students' agency and commitmentand focus to really show up for
school every day, emotionallyand mentally, and physically.
And all of this policy workreally, again, might seem far
removed from the classroom, buteverything you're telling us is
(12:44):
that it really has a directimpact on that experience for
the students?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
Yeah.
So a question on the progress, Iwas gonna ask you uh uh first of
all, a real tactical question.
Do boards are the ones whodecide who this, let's say there
a superintendent position isopen.
Do the boards pick asuperintendent?
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Yes.
So the the role of the board isto hire, evaluate, and then if
necessary, fire thesuperintendent.
That is within the board'spurview.
And then all the other positionsin the district, let's say
there's gonna be a new principalhired, or maybe there's a new
school psychologist, or thosedecisions about those
individuals would be done by theadministration, by the
(13:29):
superintendent and their team.
So the one position, verysimilar to a corporation.
You know, uh a corporate boardhires and fires, evaluates the
CEO, but they're not gonna be,they may they may meet somebody
that's a senior hire.
The CEO may want to consult withthem, of course, but they're not
the ones charged with hiring thestaff.
That's gonna be the CEO's job.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
And so you mentioned like looking at progress.
What typically type of data youknow gets to the school board?
Because I and then I want tomake one point on some of our
work in schools that reallyaugment real data that could get
(14:13):
to a school board.
So, but what what type of datais available that you say could
measure progress?
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
So traditionally, a lot of data has been collected
up at the state level, and thatdata usually focuses on very
high-level metrics aroundstandardized tests, sometimes
around um around attendancedata, but it's quite basic.
The real question is you know,if you're a board at a local
(14:41):
level and you know what yourissues are, you know your
strengths and weaknesses as adistrict, what data do you want
to see as a board member to makesure you're making progress?
And it does vary, but really, Ithink boards that are focused on
this are going to look at lotsof different types of data.
And I'll give you an example.
So let's say in your high schoolor end or middle school, you're
concerned about studentengagement and you're worried
(15:05):
that students just aren'tenthusiastic about learning.
Maybe they're not showing up allthe time, maybe they're showing
up, but they're they're they'redeeply stressed and anxious.
Well, student survey data couldbe very reasonable as something
to do, and then that's somethingthat could be reported back to
the board.
Um, you can look at othermetrics that are more micro
(15:26):
around you know differentmeasures that you're trying to
look at.
So, you know, maybe the um theload of a student counselor um
at a at a high school just totry to understand whether you
have enough resources um to dealwith you know issues that are
happening um in students' lives.
Um that's another example of ametric you can look at.
(15:47):
Um you can you can get reportsfrom students through various
committees where students cansit on the committee and share
with you what they see happeningin the school.
You know, you could look at lotsof different testing data in
addition to the state tests, APresults, SAT, A C T results,
just grading that's happening inschools, you know, just to get a
better picture of academics.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
You know, what's interesting is I just learned
something.
So like GOMO Health, so we haveprograms in schools, and they
center around uh mental healthuh substance use kind of
triggers.
Um and now we're adding someinteresting programs around
(16:27):
curriculum to create music forthe brain and uh for school
athletes to help them with brainperformance.
But we never we've called onsuperintendents, we've called on
uh principals and others, butwe've never really taken this to
(16:48):
the school board.
Now what's interesting um in NewJersey we're in about
fifty-three schools, the datafascinating, I think the school
board would love it.
Like we're engaging kidsthroughout the whole year and
they're telling us things thatthey're probably not comfortable
saying in person or identifying.
(17:10):
So we have tons of data thatjust listening to you I think
could help shape a lot ofinteresting policies or climate,
you know, and those types ofthings around what students
believe that you know, in thedata we collect.
And 'cause I think if you lookat, you know, um my background
(17:33):
is in cognitive behavioralscience.
I may even look at schools thathave high let's ASAT and this
and that.
It may correlate to highsuicide, adverse events, other
things too, or stress in thefamily, substance use is as
prevalent in high income, maybeeven more so than low income as
(17:55):
an example.
Right.
So um that's why I think gettingmore granular data to your
point, and it's not just what wedo, is not just one survey at
one point in time.
You know, we're we're engagingthem via text, they're answering
questions.
Um obviously it's been approvedby the school, right?
(18:16):
So that's why we're in there.
Right.
But the data is fascinating, andwe've never taken the time.
Like, how would an organizationlike Gomo approach a school
board?
Like, can we contact them or itgoes through the
superintendent's office?
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
Yeah, normally I would say that it would be
through the superintendent'soffice.
Sometimes um also, you know,there are a lot of conferences
where superintendents and boardscome together with others in the
in a state or you know, in apart of the country.
And that's a great opportunityjust to share educational best
practices with administratorsand school boards together.
(18:52):
But I think normally if you'reworking with the district, um
it's always um, you know, a goodmechanism to go through the
superintendent.
But I think what's sointeresting about mental health
and schools is what I've noticedis that there's so many issues
that there may be differencesbetween schools, depending on
where they are in theircircumstances, their revenue
(19:13):
streams, because some schoolsare heavily subsidized by the
state, others may only get a fewpercentage points of funding
from the state, and most of thefunding is going to come from
local property taxes.
Some schools have increasingenrollment, some schools have
declining enrollment.
There's so many differencesbetween schools, but the one
thing that generally all schoolsface is the mental health
(19:33):
epidemic that we have in thecountry as it relates to our
kids, and how we can do our partto try to address the challenge.
It's not always the same rootcause.
Sometimes in a high-performingschool where there are virtually
all graduates, you know, go tofour-year colleges.
That whole race to collegereally does create an incredible
(19:56):
amount of stress, anxiety, andsometimes depression.
And that probably means that forthose schools, there are a
certain set of programs andservices and ways in which you
can address that.
And that's very different thanmaybe in another school where
there's many mental healthchallenges, but the root cause
could be nutrition, it could beaccess to health care, it could
(20:19):
be all kinds of academicstruggles that you know students
are having to get to proficiencylevel.
Like they're just there, everyevery place is different.
And I think we have toappreciate that.
But that's the beauty of what aschool board and a governance
team with the superintendent andtheir team can do, which is
okay, let's take the time tofigure out in our district what
(20:40):
are the big drivers of stress,anxiety, depression, and mental
health issues.
Let's try to tackle the driversthe best we can so that we can
improve the situation.
And let's make sure that we havea mechanism when students have
issues to make sure that theyhave the right resources.
And sometimes those resourcesare within the district.
Sometimes they're partnershipswith organizations outside the
(21:01):
district.
In my region, there's a fairlynew partnership that's happened
with tons of districts and oneof the local hospitals that just
built out a pediatric emergencyroom for mental health
specifically.
And so now there's a place thatschools know with all the
privacy laws intact, and theparents are the ones that, you
know, oftentimes are going todrive this, but but the schools
(21:23):
collaborate with the parents,and and now at least there's a
place to send a kid that'slooking for help.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah, you know what's interesting?
Um, our next generation schoolprogram we're uh going to be
launching, it's called Readywith an I, R-E-A-D-I.
It stands for resilience througheducation, activation,
decisioning, and imagination.
Because what we've noticed inschools, similar to other
(21:54):
situations, is yes, they'redoing everything they can, like
you said.
Okay, we've made arrangementswith the hospital, we hired an
extra social worker, uh, we havea behavioral health
organization.
Hey, it assumes that the kidswho really need it are willing
to go, you know, and maybe theyonly end up in the hospital when
(22:16):
at the very end.
So already is about crisisprevention, not crisis handling.
So what we notice or what wefeel is helping people realize
things, helping shape it,helping them change their
outlook or think about things,alternative ways to handle
themselves as opposed to turningto a drug or getting angry or re
(22:42):
retiring and being lonely andsad or you know, running away
from home, whatever it may be.
So that's the missing piece thatwe find.
I think schools are doing goodthings, but the very kids who
need it the most, just likeadults, are most likely not the
ones who are gonna see raisetheir hand and seek help.
(23:04):
And some of them don't even knowit until it's too late.
They're going down a hole thatthey don't see, right?
That's what our ready program isdesigned to do.
So it's interesting, you know,it's it's not interfering with
the current assets the schoolhas in place, but because we're
digital and it's anonymous, itcan reach a hundred percent of
(23:26):
the students, and it's fun andentertaining for them because
it's delivered in a mechanismthat they find enjoyable.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
And the mechanism that they uh are probably um
very well versed in and have alot of experience navigating for
sure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
Right, but they can say, look, I I I think my
parents are are in a stressfulenvironment.
Like, you know, they're they maynot be willing to say that out
loud at the beginning.
So part of our job is to helpthem think things through.
How how could they do it, howcould they handle it?
You know, it's very interesting.
Uh Shelly, did you want to go?
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Yeah, Scott, question for you.
I actually was just uh a gueston a podcast last week.
It was it was uh clinical healthcare and nature, but one of the
things that we talked about wasthe importance of a proactive
plan to to your own health and areactive plan when the proactive
doesn't work exactly the way youwant it to.
So here too, I'm curious.
(24:24):
It sounds like there's a lot ofdata-driven research,
decision-making, meetings,planning with in anticipation
and to plan ahead and beproactive.
What can we do for the students?
What do they need?
And that's data-driven.
How um fluid is the board in itsability to pivot in these insane
(24:44):
situations that the world hasdelivered to us in the last
couple of years?
How are they positioned to move,react, and support the students
when those things come up?
COVID, wars, fires, naturaldisasters, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah, well, what's so interesting is that on the
one hand, I think what we'velearned over the last 10 years
is that you you need to pivotoften and sometimes quite
dramatically in order to makesure that you're delivering the
best possible education to thestudents that you know very much
deserve every opportunity.
But you also need to do it in areally transparent way and you
have to do it with communityinput.
(25:20):
So the one thing you can't do islike go into a back room, as
oftentimes happens in ahospital, university, a
corporation, right?
Come up with what you think isthe best plan, come out and say,
this is what we're doing.
Instead, it needs to be donepublicly.
And you have you can have a lineof people, you know, at the
microphone, you know, expressingtheir opinion.
And before you actually vote onwhat is going to change, on
(25:41):
whether it's a policy or whetherit's uh reopening a school,
whatever, um, then you're gonnaget that input from the public.
And I think at the end of theday, that's a really healthy
thing.
Sometimes it creates conflict,but it's it's certainly healthy.
And I think that um despitethat, there's still um a lot of
ability to pivot because unlikea state law, which is so hard to
(26:02):
unravel, like good luckunraveling a state law, it
happens, but it's hard.
It's very easy to change apolicy at the local level or to
reallocate a budget or to decidethat there's going to be a
different curriculum focus.
All it takes is, you know, youhave a meeting and the public's
there and they listen and thenthey have a chance to speak, and
then the board adjudicates, andthen ultimately, you know, you
(26:23):
can vote.
And so there's a there's athere's a real you know amount
of flexibility there that Ithink that is important to
communities.
The other thing we haven'ttalked about, but I think it's
really critical, is that we'veseen lots and lots of boardrooms
around the country, most I wouldsay, that there's disagreement,
whether it's between thecommunity board members, board
members and each other, boardmembers and the superintendent.
(26:45):
But that disagreement is look,it's a it's healthy, it's part
of the democratic Americanprocess.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's okay.
Every vote doesn't need to beunanimous by any stretch.
People can have disagreementsand absolutely be productive
about it.
Or there could be reallydestructive things happening
where there are literallythreats of violence and um and
(27:06):
and there's uh you know, inessence, uh a horrible battle
going on between whether, again,it could be community board,
board to board, board toadministration.
And I think that we have alwayshave to remember that whatever
we do in the boardroom does seta model for the district.
You know, teachers, staff, andstudents, they do notice,
especially when there areYouTube videos with you know
(27:27):
with this stuff.
And and I think that we have tostep back and think that we
spend billions of dollars on allkinds of you know, social
emotional learning programs foryou know, K-12 students to have
healthy relationships and beable to manage their emotions.
And how are we gonnarealistically expect on the
playground third graders to getalong if we can't get along in
the boardroom?
(27:48):
So I always say that I think wehave an opportunity because we I
don't I don't for a minute saythat we should agree with each
other all the time.
We should have healthydisagreement all the time.
That is natural, but just do soin a way that's professional and
not destructive.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Yeah, and that gets back to your comment about how
it could promote democracy, andthat's what we do.
A question for you typically,how many members are on a board?
And do all decisions, is itmajority or certain decisions?
You have to have like threequarters, you know.
How does it work to your point?
(28:22):
Everything's not unanimous.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
So boards can range in size.
It depends not only on thestate, but sometimes even within
a state, there are differentnumbers of board members.
Um, it could be um five, fivepeople on a board that that a
lot of districts have that.
Seven is an incredibly commonnumber, probably more common
than five.
There are some boards that arebigger than seven.
Believe it or not, um, inChicago, and I don't remember
the exact number, but it's over20 that they're trying to
(28:47):
transition to because they'regoing from an appointed board to
an elected board.
Most boards in our in Americaare elected.
There are some boards, it'sdefinitely the exception to the
rule, that are appointed membersby the mayor usually.
And um, and in Chicago, it wasmayoral appointment and now it's
being converted to you knowelection by the people.
And they wanted to give you knowlots of different areas of
(29:09):
Chicago, I think,representation.
Um, but I think that with anyboard, and we know this from
boards that are, whether it'scorporate boards or nonprofit
boards, there you have to becareful when boards get too big
because it could become unwieldyum to make decisions.
At the same time, certainly youcan have more than five people
on the board and it could beperfectly functional and
effective.
So, you know, I think the sweetspot oftentimes tends to be
(29:31):
around um seven, but but itranges.
And then um your other question,it was you you would you asked
um there was one other questionthat you had.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Uh does it is it always like 51%?
Or is it do certain things, ifit's a major shift, require more
than that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Most decisions are majority decisions, so 51%.
Now it there are someexceptions, and and the biggest
is if you are a board where youhave you set up a Policy to say
that, oh, there's a certain setof matters that are of such
critical importance where wewant to have a broad consensus
that we want it to be asupermajority type vote.
(30:11):
And it depends on state law.
A lot of this comes down tostate law, but you can do that.
And I've seen certain boards dothat on very specific matters.
But generally speaking, it'smajority.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
All right.
Well, thank you so much, Scott.
This was great.
I think that you've highlighteda lot of um issues for us and
given us some good creative waysto go about tackling them and
including people in decisionmaking and influencing the
outcome for the students todayin our schools.
Um clearly, kids are our future,children are our future, our
(30:46):
students are our future, and umthey're the next ones to uh run
this crazy world we're allliving in.
So we need to empower them withthe skills to do so.
Um, audience for more on Scott'swork, please check out his book,
Why School Boards Matter, in ourepisode notes.
And if you want to learn moreabout Gomo Health school-based
resilience programs, as Bobmentioned, our Ready program and
(31:07):
others for students and familiesand teachers and faculty, visit
our website.
If you enjoyed what you heardtoday, please subscribe, submit
your questions, and be sure tolike and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of healthcare, visit
us at gomohealth.com and be sureto tune in on Thursday to catch
(31:28):
our latest content.
Thanks for joining us and thanksfor listening.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Thank you, everybody.
And Scott, thanks forparticipating.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Well, thanks for having me.
The thing that happened as I was writing the
book is I realized given all ofthe polarization in our society
and all the division and all ofthe battles that have happened
over so many issues, I really dobelieve also that boards are a
way to enhance and strengthenour democracy because it allows
community members to come to theboardroom to express their
opinion in a way that is verydifficult to do quite the same
(00:30):
at other levels of government,and it really connects the
community to the schools, whichis a really important part of uh
good education in general.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Sometimes something new intercepts our life and
changes the way we're able tolive, work, or care for
ourselves and others.
Hi, I'm Shelly Schoenfeld, ChiefMarketing and Client Services
Officer at GOMO Health.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Hi, I'm Bob Gold, founder and chief behavioral
technologist at GOMO Health.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
And together we're diving into the real stories and
science behind whole personhealth, what it means, why it
matters, and how it can make adifference for people who need
it most.
Welcome to season two of HumanResilience: Changing the Way
Healthcare is delivered.
Good morning, everybody.
We've explored a lot ofschool-aged issues in our
podcast and programs, andbefore, including mental health
(01:22):
and substance use in schools.
And today we're going to beexpanding on that by talking
about something that a lot ofpeople don't connect to student
well-being, but really should,and that's school boards.
And these elected groups don'tjust set budgets and policies,
but they shape school climateand trust with families and how
mental health and substance usechallenges are handled across a
(01:45):
district.
So we all know about youthanxiety and depression and
substance use and how it'sreally escalating, and they're
all at an all-time high,unfortunately.
And because of this, mentalhealth isn't really just a
guidance counselor office issue.
It goes beyond that.
It's a leadership responsibilitythat comes from the top.
(02:07):
And the tone for that leadershipis really set long before a
student walks into a classroomor a guidance counselor's
office.
It's set in the boardroom.
So joining us today is ScottLevy.
Scott is a longtime school boardmember.
He's a lecturer and an author ofa newly released book called Why
School Boards Matter (02:24):
Reclaiming the Heart of American Education
and Democracy.
Scott spent years on improvinggovernance and rebuilding trust
and creating environments wherestudents can thrive, not just
academically, but emotionally aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Yeah, so Scott, I've known Scott for a while.
He's been on our board ofdirectors.
He's been a wonderful member,has a very interesting career.
So, Scott, tell us a little bitabout you and what triggered you
to write this book, and thentell us a little bit about the
book.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, what triggered me to writethe book is during COVID, I
guess a lot of people had a lotof time during COVID, and I
noticed this big disconnect.
I had been on a school board formany years, very interested in
school governance and schoolpolicy.
And I remember when I first ranfor my board of education, I got
elected.
I was walking down the street inmy town, and somebody stopped me
and they said, Oh, Scott,congratulations on winning the
(03:21):
election.
Because now I'm going to see youon the video feed of the
meetings, because all of um theschool board meetings around the
country are you know are videoedand they're on the internet for
people to watch.
And I was excited because in2015, when I first won the
election, not a lot of peoplewere watching school board
meetings.
And then he goes on to say, Oh,yeah, I watched them when I have
trouble falling asleep, becauseback then they were, you know,
(03:42):
they were kind of boring, themundane budgets and policy
discussions that you might have.
And then we fast forward to2020.
And we know that what happenedin boardrooms all across the
country were battles aroundfirst reopening schools, then
masking and vaccine mandates,DEI, all of these issues.
And so I wanted to write a bookthat really tried to understand
what was going on, what washappening.
(04:03):
Has this always been the casewhere things have been you know
adjudicated in boardrooms, or isthis something new?
And my interest in um in all ofthis, you know, really dates
back to first being a volunteer.
I was in the world of business,um, focused mostly on corporate
boards.
And then my kids were of schoolage, and I started volunteering
for my district and got veryinvolved in education policy and
made my way you know onto theschool board as a way really to
(04:24):
make a difference.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
We'll we'll get into the book, but just out of
curiosity, what is the mainpoint that you were trying to
make with writing the book?
Like what were you trying toinfluence?
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
So I was making the point, and when I first started
writing the book, it was reallymostly about why school boards
have great potential to improvepublic schools and why there are
many things, even if the stateand federal governmental levels
are doing their job and beingreally thoughtful with policy,
even if they are, and they'renot, they aren't always, but
(05:01):
even if they are, at the locallevel, you can do things that
can't be done at other levels.
Like, for example, which isreally, I think, important for
this conversation, settingdistrict climate.
That's something that can onlyhappen at the local level
because you need to be withinthe organization, and the board
is within the organization.
The thing that happened as I waswriting the book is I realized,
given all of the polarization inour society and all the division
(05:24):
and all of the battles that havehappened over so many issues, I
really do believe also thatboards are a way to enhance and
strengthen our democracy becauseit allows community members to
come to the boardroom to expresstheir opinion in a way that is
very difficult to do quite thesame at other levels of
government.
And it really connects thecommunity to the schools, which
(05:45):
is a really important part of uhgood education in general.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Thanks, Scott.
I'm so excited to read your bookbecause it really sounds like it
makes a very clear connectionthat school boards aren't just
sitting in musty boardrooms andmaking policies and implementing
things that they're reallydistanced from.
They're really affecting thetrenches.
They're creating a culture andimpacting the culture within the
(06:12):
school that is then reflected inthe teacher's messaging and in
the experience that the kidsthat the students are getting.
So it's really important tothink about them in that regard,
in that what a school board doesinfluences the culture from all
of those different perspectivesfor the teachers, for
(06:33):
administration, for thestudents, the parents, and the
caregivers.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Now, how are boards made up?
Is there any mandate about thetype of profile on boards, or
it's just all who runs for aboard and then you get elected?
Are there any qualifications tobe on the board or no?
Typically.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
So this is democracy at its best.
Anyone of a certain age, usually18, you know, could be a school
board member.
They have to run in the electionand ultimately, you know,
prevail in that vote.
So it's very different than ifyou think about nonprofit
boards, university boards,corporate boards, where you may
say, you know what, I needsomebody with an accounting
background, I need someone witha technology background.
And what that means is that youcould have boards that may not
(07:20):
represent kind of like everyskill set that you need, but at
the same time, they're thegovernance body.
They're not running the schoolsday-to-day.
That's up to the superintendentand the superintendent's team.
And so what they need to do isbe able to ask really thoughtful
questions.
And there's this whole mechanismof professional development.
So if a board member is notcomfortable in a certain area,
they can go and get professionaldevelopment and learn about
(07:41):
whether it's education law,whether it's issues around
mental health prevention, um,whether it's issues about
curriculum, um, whether it'sissues about the budget and just
finance skills, there are waysto get a lot of training to try
to become a board member thatthat has those skills.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when you talk about,
let's say, connecting thecommunity to the school, you
know.
Um hating myself, there was anold movie starring Sidney
Cordier called To Sir With Love.
And uh he went into a school asa teacher and he had no
(08:22):
experience, and it was the arough school in a rough
neighborhood, and he taught themlife skills, you know, like life
skills, and so a question likein your experience in boards or
writing the book, you know, howdeep does a board go?
(08:44):
Because I just see from whatShelly opened up with a lot of
kids are missing various lifeskills they could know, learn
chemistry or history or but inthe end, you know, how do you
deal with life and thesurrounding and the growing
amount of information that mayaffect kids uh that's available.
(09:09):
How how do you what could be therole of a school board in
recommending how a culture of aschool and climate is governed?
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
So two let's talk about like two separate
components of that.
And they're connected for sure.
Um, one is curriculum and andthe other is just general school
climate.
So on the curriculum side, theboard doesn't necessarily have
the expertise to granularlyfigure out what the curriculum
should be, and you don't wantyour board starting to
micromanage exactly what kidsare learning in every class.
(09:44):
That would be incrediblydisingenuous and not the role of
the board.
But the board first off setsgoals.
So let's say you think that inyour district, students are not
graduating with the ability tokind of be able to use
technology effectively andefficiently and safely.
Maybe you have in your school astress and anxiety, you know,
(10:06):
and mental health crisis, andthat's something that you need
to address.
Maybe it's um financialliteracy, that's been a big
topic recently, being able tograduate and understand the
difference between credit carddebt and mortgage debt and how
to balance your checkbook andthat sort of thing.
If anybody writes checks, canyou help me?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Can you help me with all of that stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (10:23):
Come back to K-12.
Absolutely.
Right.
But so on on those fronts, itwould be perfectly appropriate
for a board to say, you knowwhat, this is going to be a
goal.
We're going to be focused onthis.
We know that this is a big issueand we need to do better.
And so we're going to sort ofset the organizational attention
and make sure that everybody'sfocused on it.
So setting goals is one way.
Then another way is policy.
(10:43):
So there are lots and lots ofpolicies that govern just how a
school functions.
And the board does set all thosepolicies.
They do it in a really publicway.
Um, community members can comeand comment before the policy is
adopted.
So that's another way.
Budget allocation.
So everything has its way, youknow, in some way, shape, or
form, rooting in the budget.
And so that allocation decisionof how the money is going to get
(11:06):
spent, are you going to hiremental health resources?
Are you going to hire somebodythat is going to be the head of
technology for the district?
And making those decisions aboutthese positions and funding
these positions, that's clearlyin the domain of the board
ratifying that.
Um, and then also high-levelcurriculum.
And so not at the micro level,but certainly at the high level.
(11:27):
What do we want the portrait ofa graduate to look like?
What skills do they need toknow?
Um, are we ensuring that they'regraduating and they're
successful if they go to collegeor go out into the workforce or
armed forces, whatever theychoose to do.
So that those are the ways inwhich the board can function.
And then and then measuringprogress, right?
Measuring progress, just tryingto figure out whether if there
(11:49):
is a particular problem andthere is a goal, then let's look
a year later and see if we'veimproved.
That's also an important role ofthe board.
And I could talk about climatein a second, but let me just
stop there for a sec.
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Scott, so that's really interesting.
I I would suspect that a lot ofpeople, even parents who are so
close to things for theirchildren and their schooling,
they probably really areunderestimating the impact and
the influence that uh the schoolboard has on their students
day-to-day.
And it's really everything fromfunding and training to the
(12:21):
curriculum priorities.
And all of those differentthings really impact the
students' agency and commitmentand focus to really show up for
school every day, emotionallyand mentally, and physically.
And all of this policy workreally, again, might seem far
removed from the classroom, buteverything you're telling us is
(12:44):
that it really has a directimpact on that experience for
the students?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
Yeah.
So a question on the progress, Iwas gonna ask you uh uh first of
all, a real tactical question.
Do boards are the ones whodecide who this, let's say there
a superintendent position isopen.
Do the boards pick asuperintendent?
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Yes.
So the the role of the board isto hire, evaluate, and then if
necessary, fire thesuperintendent.
That is within the board'spurview.
And then all the other positionsin the district, let's say
there's gonna be a new principalhired, or maybe there's a new
school psychologist, or thosedecisions about those
individuals would be done by theadministration, by the
(13:29):
superintendent and their team.
So the one position, verysimilar to a corporation.
You know, uh a corporate boardhires and fires, evaluates the
CEO, but they're not gonna be,they may they may meet somebody
that's a senior hire.
The CEO may want to consult withthem, of course, but they're not
the ones charged with hiring thestaff.
That's gonna be the CEO's job.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
And so you mentioned like looking at progress.
What typically type of data youknow gets to the school board?
Because I and then I want tomake one point on some of our
work in schools that reallyaugment real data that could get
(14:13):
to a school board.
So, but what what type of datais available that you say could
measure progress?
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
So traditionally, a lot of data has been collected
up at the state level, and thatdata usually focuses on very
high-level metrics aroundstandardized tests, sometimes
around um around attendancedata, but it's quite basic.
The real question is you know,if you're a board at a local
(14:41):
level and you know what yourissues are, you know your
strengths and weaknesses as adistrict, what data do you want
to see as a board member to makesure you're making progress?
And it does vary, but really, Ithink boards that are focused on
this are going to look at lotsof different types of data.
And I'll give you an example.
So let's say in your high schoolor end or middle school, you're
concerned about studentengagement and you're worried
(15:05):
that students just aren'tenthusiastic about learning.
Maybe they're not showing up allthe time, maybe they're showing
up, but they're they're they'redeeply stressed and anxious.
Well, student survey data couldbe very reasonable as something
to do, and then that's somethingthat could be reported back to
the board.
Um, you can look at othermetrics that are more micro
(15:26):
around you know differentmeasures that you're trying to
look at.
So, you know, maybe the um theload of a student counselor um
at a at a high school just totry to understand whether you
have enough resources um to dealwith you know issues that are
happening um in students' lives.
Um that's another example of ametric you can look at.
(15:47):
Um you can you can get reportsfrom students through various
committees where students cansit on the committee and share
with you what they see happeningin the school.
You know, you could look at lotsof different testing data in
addition to the state tests, APresults, SAT, A C T results,
just grading that's happening inschools, you know, just to get a
better picture of academics.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
You know, what's interesting is I just learned
something.
So like GOMO Health, so we haveprograms in schools, and they
center around uh mental healthuh substance use kind of
triggers.
Um and now we're adding someinteresting programs around
(16:27):
curriculum to create music forthe brain and uh for school
athletes to help them with brainperformance.
But we never we've called onsuperintendents, we've called on
uh principals and others, butwe've never really taken this to
(16:48):
the school board.
Now what's interesting um in NewJersey we're in about
fifty-three schools, the datafascinating, I think the school
board would love it.
Like we're engaging kidsthroughout the whole year and
they're telling us things thatthey're probably not comfortable
saying in person or identifying.
(17:10):
So we have tons of data thatjust listening to you I think
could help shape a lot ofinteresting policies or climate,
you know, and those types ofthings around what students
believe that you know, in thedata we collect.
And 'cause I think if you lookat, you know, um my background
(17:33):
is in cognitive behavioralscience.
I may even look at schools thathave high let's ASAT and this
and that.
It may correlate to highsuicide, adverse events, other
things too, or stress in thefamily, substance use is as
prevalent in high income, maybeeven more so than low income as
(17:55):
an example.
Right.
So um that's why I think gettingmore granular data to your
point, and it's not just what wedo, is not just one survey at
one point in time.
You know, we're we're engagingthem via text, they're answering
questions.
Um obviously it's been approvedby the school, right?
(18:16):
So that's why we're in there.
Right.
But the data is fascinating, andwe've never taken the time.
Like, how would an organizationlike Gomo approach a school
board?
Like, can we contact them or itgoes through the
superintendent's office?
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
Yeah, normally I would say that it would be
through the superintendent'soffice.
Sometimes um also, you know,there are a lot of conferences
where superintendents and boardscome together with others in the
in a state or you know, in apart of the country.
And that's a great opportunityjust to share educational best
practices with administratorsand school boards together.
(18:52):
But I think normally if you'reworking with the district, um
it's always um, you know, a goodmechanism to go through the
superintendent.
But I think what's sointeresting about mental health
and schools is what I've noticedis that there's so many issues
that there may be differencesbetween schools, depending on
where they are in theircircumstances, their revenue
(19:13):
streams, because some schoolsare heavily subsidized by the
state, others may only get a fewpercentage points of funding
from the state, and most of thefunding is going to come from
local property taxes.
Some schools have increasingenrollment, some schools have
declining enrollment.
There's so many differencesbetween schools, but the one
thing that generally all schoolsface is the mental health
(19:33):
epidemic that we have in thecountry as it relates to our
kids, and how we can do our partto try to address the challenge.
It's not always the same rootcause.
Sometimes in a high-performingschool where there are virtually
all graduates, you know, go tofour-year colleges.
That whole race to collegereally does create an incredible
(19:56):
amount of stress, anxiety, andsometimes depression.
And that probably means that forthose schools, there are a
certain set of programs andservices and ways in which you
can address that.
And that's very different thanmaybe in another school where
there's many mental healthchallenges, but the root cause
could be nutrition, it could beaccess to health care, it could
(20:19):
be all kinds of academicstruggles that you know students
are having to get to proficiencylevel.
Like they're just there, everyevery place is different.
And I think we have toappreciate that.
But that's the beauty of what aschool board and a governance
team with the superintendent andtheir team can do, which is
okay, let's take the time tofigure out in our district what
(20:40):
are the big drivers of stress,anxiety, depression, and mental
health issues.
Let's try to tackle the driversthe best we can so that we can
improve the situation.
And let's make sure that we havea mechanism when students have
issues to make sure that theyhave the right resources.
And sometimes those resourcesare within the district.
Sometimes they're partnershipswith organizations outside the
(21:01):
district.
In my region, there's a fairlynew partnership that's happened
with tons of districts and oneof the local hospitals that just
built out a pediatric emergencyroom for mental health
specifically.
And so now there's a place thatschools know with all the
privacy laws intact, and theparents are the ones that, you
know, oftentimes are going todrive this, but but the schools
(21:23):
collaborate with the parents,and and now at least there's a
place to send a kid that'slooking for help.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah, you know what's interesting?
Um, our next generation schoolprogram we're uh going to be
launching, it's called Readywith an I, R-E-A-D-I.
It stands for resilience througheducation, activation,
decisioning, and imagination.
Because what we've noticed inschools, similar to other
(21:54):
situations, is yes, they'redoing everything they can, like
you said.
Okay, we've made arrangementswith the hospital, we hired an
extra social worker, uh, we havea behavioral health
organization.
Hey, it assumes that the kidswho really need it are willing
to go, you know, and maybe theyonly end up in the hospital when
(22:16):
at the very end.
So already is about crisisprevention, not crisis handling.
So what we notice or what wefeel is helping people realize
things, helping shape it,helping them change their
outlook or think about things,alternative ways to handle
themselves as opposed to turningto a drug or getting angry or re
(22:42):
retiring and being lonely andsad or you know, running away
from home, whatever it may be.
So that's the missing piece thatwe find.
I think schools are doing goodthings, but the very kids who
need it the most, just likeadults, are most likely not the
ones who are gonna see raisetheir hand and seek help.
(23:04):
And some of them don't even knowit until it's too late.
They're going down a hole thatthey don't see, right?
That's what our ready program isdesigned to do.
So it's interesting, you know,it's it's not interfering with
the current assets the schoolhas in place, but because we're
digital and it's anonymous, itcan reach a hundred percent of
(23:26):
the students, and it's fun andentertaining for them because
it's delivered in a mechanismthat they find enjoyable.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
And the mechanism that they uh are probably um
very well versed in and have alot of experience navigating for
sure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
Right, but they can say, look, I I I think my
parents are are in a stressfulenvironment.
Like, you know, they're they maynot be willing to say that out
loud at the beginning.
So part of our job is to helpthem think things through.
How how could they do it, howcould they handle it?
You know, it's very interesting.
Uh Shelly, did you want to go?
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Yeah, Scott, question for you.
I actually was just uh a gueston a podcast last week.
It was it was uh clinical healthcare and nature, but one of the
things that we talked about wasthe importance of a proactive
plan to to your own health and areactive plan when the proactive
doesn't work exactly the way youwant it to.
So here too, I'm curious.
(24:24):
It sounds like there's a lot ofdata-driven research,
decision-making, meetings,planning with in anticipation
and to plan ahead and beproactive.
What can we do for the students?
What do they need?
And that's data-driven.
How um fluid is the board in itsability to pivot in these insane
(24:44):
situations that the world hasdelivered to us in the last
couple of years?
How are they positioned to move,react, and support the students
when those things come up?
COVID, wars, fires, naturaldisasters, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah, well, what's so interesting is that on the
one hand, I think what we'velearned over the last 10 years
is that you you need to pivotoften and sometimes quite
dramatically in order to makesure that you're delivering the
best possible education to thestudents that you know very much
deserve every opportunity.
But you also need to do it in areally transparent way and you
have to do it with communityinput.
(25:20):
So the one thing you can't do islike go into a back room, as
oftentimes happens in ahospital, university, a
corporation, right?
Come up with what you think isthe best plan, come out and say,
this is what we're doing.
Instead, it needs to be donepublicly.
And you have you can have a lineof people, you know, at the
microphone, you know, expressingtheir opinion.
And before you actually vote onwhat is going to change, on
(25:41):
whether it's a policy or whetherit's uh reopening a school,
whatever, um, then you're gonnaget that input from the public.
And I think at the end of theday, that's a really healthy
thing.
Sometimes it creates conflict,but it's it's certainly healthy.
And I think that um despitethat, there's still um a lot of
ability to pivot because unlikea state law, which is so hard to
(26:02):
unravel, like good luckunraveling a state law, it
happens, but it's hard.
It's very easy to change apolicy at the local level or to
reallocate a budget or to decidethat there's going to be a
different curriculum focus.
All it takes is, you know, youhave a meeting and the public's
there and they listen and thenthey have a chance to speak, and
then the board adjudicates, andthen ultimately, you know, you
(26:23):
can vote.
And so there's a there's athere's a real you know amount
of flexibility there that Ithink that is important to
communities.
The other thing we haven'ttalked about, but I think it's
really critical, is that we'veseen lots and lots of boardrooms
around the country, most I wouldsay, that there's disagreement,
whether it's between thecommunity board members, board
members and each other, boardmembers and the superintendent.
(26:45):
But that disagreement is look,it's a it's healthy, it's part
of the democratic Americanprocess.
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's okay.
Every vote doesn't need to beunanimous by any stretch.
People can have disagreementsand absolutely be productive
about it.
Or there could be reallydestructive things happening
where there are literallythreats of violence and um and
(27:06):
and there's uh you know, inessence, uh a horrible battle
going on between whether, again,it could be community board,
board to board, board toadministration.
And I think that we have alwayshave to remember that whatever
we do in the boardroom does seta model for the district.
You know, teachers, staff, andstudents, they do notice,
especially when there areYouTube videos with you know
(27:27):
with this stuff.
And and I think that we have tostep back and think that we
spend billions of dollars on allkinds of you know, social
emotional learning programs foryou know, K-12 students to have
healthy relationships and beable to manage their emotions.
And how are we gonnarealistically expect on the
playground third graders to getalong if we can't get along in
the boardroom?
(27:48):
So I always say that I think wehave an opportunity because we I
don't I don't for a minute saythat we should agree with each
other all the time.
We should have healthydisagreement all the time.
That is natural, but just do soin a way that's professional and
not destructive.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Yeah, and that gets back to your comment about how
it could promote democracy, andthat's what we do.
A question for you typically,how many members are on a board?
And do all decisions, is itmajority or certain decisions?
You have to have like threequarters, you know.
How does it work to your point?
(28:22):
Everything's not unanimous.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
So boards can range in size.
It depends not only on thestate, but sometimes even within
a state, there are differentnumbers of board members.
Um, it could be um five, fivepeople on a board that that a
lot of districts have that.
Seven is an incredibly commonnumber, probably more common
than five.
There are some boards that arebigger than seven.
Believe it or not, um, inChicago, and I don't remember
the exact number, but it's over20 that they're trying to
(28:47):
transition to because they'regoing from an appointed board to
an elected board.
Most boards in our in Americaare elected.
There are some boards, it'sdefinitely the exception to the
rule, that are appointed membersby the mayor usually.
And um, and in Chicago, it wasmayoral appointment and now it's
being converted to you knowelection by the people.
And they wanted to give you knowlots of different areas of
(29:09):
Chicago, I think,representation.
Um, but I think that with anyboard, and we know this from
boards that are, whether it'scorporate boards or nonprofit
boards, there you have to becareful when boards get too big
because it could become unwieldyum to make decisions.
At the same time, certainly youcan have more than five people
on the board and it could beperfectly functional and
effective.
So, you know, I think the sweetspot oftentimes tends to be
(29:31):
around um seven, but but itranges.
And then um your other question,it was you you would you asked
um there was one other questionthat you had.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Uh does it is it always like 51%?
Or is it do certain things, ifit's a major shift, require more
than that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Most decisions are majority decisions, so 51%.
Now it there are someexceptions, and and the biggest
is if you are a board where youhave you set up a Policy to say
that, oh, there's a certain setof matters that are of such
critical importance where wewant to have a broad consensus
that we want it to be asupermajority type vote.
(30:11):
And it depends on state law.
A lot of this comes down tostate law, but you can do that.
And I've seen certain boards dothat on very specific matters.
But generally speaking, it'smajority.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
All right.
Well, thank you so much, Scott.
This was great.
I think that you've highlighteda lot of um issues for us and
given us some good creative waysto go about tackling them and
including people in decisionmaking and influencing the
outcome for the students todayin our schools.
Um clearly, kids are our future,children are our future, our
(30:46):
students are our future, and umthey're the next ones to uh run
this crazy world we're allliving in.
So we need to empower them withthe skills to do so.
Um, audience for more on Scott'swork, please check out his book,
Why School Boards Matter, in ourepisode notes.
And if you want to learn moreabout Gomo Health school-based
resilience programs, as Bobmentioned, our Ready program and
(31:07):
others for students and familiesand teachers and faculty, visit
our website.
If you enjoyed what you heardtoday, please subscribe, submit
your questions, and be sure tolike and comment on this
episode.
For more expert insights intothe world of healthcare, visit
us at gomohealth.com and be sureto tune in on Thursday to catch
(31:28):
our latest content.
Thanks for joining us and thanksfor listening.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Thank you, everybody.
And Scott, thanks forparticipating.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Well, thanks for having me.
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