February 3, 2025 • 61 mins
Discover the world of versatile working terriers with passionate dogman Nick Fox, as he takes us on his journey from owning various hunting dogs to discovering the indomitable Jagdterrier. Based in northern Indiana, Nick shares his insights into the breed's unique history and characteristics, including their German origins and the wartime breeding programs that shaped them. You'll learn about their impressive hunting capabilities, from wild boar chasing to intricate earthwork. Nick's personal experiences and stories bring to life the relentless drive of these spirited dogs, making them not only fierce hunters but also affectionate companions.
Join our conversation as we explore the fascinating dynamics of terrier breeds, focusing on their earthworking techniques. From coat types to underground hunting strategies, we discuss how these factors influence their function and appearance. Nick shares thrilling tales of earthworking encounters, where quick thinking is often required to ensure the safety of these adventurous dogs. We also delve into the preparation and conditioning essential for keeping them fit and ready for any challenge. Whether you're a seasoned hunter or a curious newcomer, you'll gain valuable insights into starting puppies in this unique form of hunting.
We also highlight the vibrant community surrounding terrier hunting, including organizations like the American Hunt Terrier Association. These groups provide a platform for youth and newcomers to immerse themselves in a rewarding sport, fostering a love for working with terriers. With engaging stories about the collaboration between terriers and lurchers, Nick illustrates the unique synergy and balance required in training these intelligent breeds. Tune in to experience the thrills, challenges, and camaraderie of hunting with terriers, and find out how you can get involved in this exciting world.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
this is hunts and outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto howos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
Yes, thanks, a pile forlistening.
In this week we have aninteresting one for you.
(00:36):
That's all about a small dogbreed with a big dog attitude
and feels that no job is too bigto get done, from taking on
wild boar to digging undergroundafter rodents.
Passionate dogman Nick Fox isgoing to tell us all about it.
If you're listening to thispodcast on Apple or Spotify, it
would be great if you couldleave us a rating and review on
there.
We really appreciate it.
Speaking about working dogs onhere today, you got to make sure
(00:58):
that they have the right foodin them to keep going.
I myself feed and recommendNook Shook dog food.
With it being the world'shighest energy dog food.
It will keep your best friendand hunter going all day long
easily in demanding conditions.
Check them out online, put inyour address and a trusted
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Also, check us out on FacebookHunts On Outfitting to contact
(01:22):
us and stay up to date withwhat's going on.
All right, let's get to it Allright.
Yes, like I said, thanks forcontacting me.
I've been really curious aboutthis breed and these dogs and
wanting to talk to somebody thatknows all about them.
But before we get into that,nick, where are you from and how
are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, I'm not too bad Digging out of the snow.
I'm located in northern Indiana.
I've been working dogs since Iwas in high school.
My first dog was a coon dog, soI was coon dogging for a while,
(02:03):
switched into the beagles andthen kind of fell out of the
beagles, jumped into the coyoteworld, ran coyote hounds for
about five years and then moved,kind of had life, life stuff
come up and sold out for aminute, and then I decided I
needed something, uh, somethingto in the house and something I
(02:25):
could work.
It was a little small, moreportable, so I ended up with
Yacht Terriers.
My first one was Koma, who isthree years old now.
Got him from a gentleman inKentucky, james Mills.
He was kind of the godfather ofthe breed in the States and
(02:47):
since then I kind of worked myway into doing all earth work
with my terriers and I added alurch to my pack this year.
She's a sighthound cross and Iuse her a lot to draw stuff out
of the ground.
And that's about where I'vebeen.
And now I'm hooked in prettydeep in the terrier world and
(03:10):
haven't looked back since.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, no, sounds like if there's an animal to chase
with dogs, you've owned it orbeen along to do it.
At least I'd say.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, that's the one thing.
I've always had a dog andalways liked working dogs.
It's kind of like my, my littleescape from the world, even
though it's sometimes you getstressful when you've got a dog
underground and we're out in thewoods, you know, and you end up
end up in some situations, butother than that, you know it's
it's a good time.
The terriers seem to havefilled the void that I was
(03:44):
looking for being small,portable and, yeah, they're
gamey and gritty enough tohandle anything.
That's what I like about themand they don't back down off of
nothing.
And I like the super high preydrive in the dogs.
It's kind of fun.
And then the other thing that'simportant with the Yacht
Terriers is they've got to havethe off switch.
So I raised four Yacht Terriersin the house and all mine sleep
(04:09):
in bed with me at night andthen we'd work the same day or
the next day and they'd shut itoff when we got home.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I find that it's kind of an old-timers thing thinking
that you can't have a goodworking dog and have them as a
pet in the house, which I mean,as you know and I know myself,
that's completely false.
But with the Yawg Terrier, canyou describe to us a little bit
about the breed, like their sizeand they are.
They're black and tan, so I'mguessing their origins they come
(04:41):
from Germany.
They seem to like their blackand tans.
Yeah, they come from uh germany.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
They seem to like their black and tans.
Yeah, um, they came over ingermany, came about during uh
the war and and nazi germany.
It was in their breedingprogram.
They had a couple differentspecies that they had in there
and I believe it was likethere's some horse that they had
in this and then they had thesedogs.
So it's kind of hard gettingthem over here.
So I mean a traditional YachtTerrier.
(05:07):
They range in size so it alldepends where you're at.
Personally, all my kennel stockis going to be your smaller end
Terriers.
So my smallest female she's 12pounds and my biggest one, my
(05:31):
biggest dog's 18 pounds.
But they go up to as big asI've seen them up to 30, 35
pounds, the Yacht Terriers.
And the one thing about theYacht Terrier is it's pretty
much a purpose bred dog.
So whatever you're using it foris where your size obviously
comes into play.
You know, because we go to thewest coast or to the south, a
lot of them are using them forlike hogs, big game bears and
lions and stuff.
(05:52):
But they're I mean obviouslythey're much larger than what I
have.
I'm kind of sticking to thesmaller end of dogs because I
enjoy doing the earth work,which would be.
You know it's hard to get ayacht carrier that's sizable to
work for earth.
So you know you want to stay inthe 12 to 15 pounds and or
(06:13):
softer chest so you can spanthem.
So spanning is where you takeyour hand behind the shoulder
and you want to be able to touchyour fingertips or wrap your
fingertips around it.
So the Yacht Terriers you knowthey fluctuate and a lot of the
guys are running a bigger YachtTerrier, which is fine.
I mean there's not a lot ofYacht Terriers that excel in the
(06:37):
Earth game over here becauseeverything's fairly big.
But they're pretty comparable tolike, like a Patterdale or a
Jack Russell.
They're a little bit more, I'mgoing to say, hard or tougher,
underground.
You won't have as much of a baydog like you do with the Jack
(06:57):
Russell.
You have more of a dog that'llgo in they call it mixer where
it'll go in and actually engagewith the quarry underneath and
hold it, because the jackrussells are more of a bay dog,
because you don't want to endthe hunt there they were.
The jack russells were popularwhen fox hunting was big in
(07:19):
europe and it's still big overthere, um to where you rip on
them with the hounds and oncethe fox hold you would put that
Jinder Jack Russell in orterrier in to flush the fox
again and continue the race.
So that's about the size that Igo for.
But, like I said, the YachtTerriers go anywhere from 15 to
(07:41):
35 pounds.
I've seen them as big as 40.
But at 40 pounds there's not acritter on the air safe, I mean
they can handle about anythingon their own.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, no, I believe it because, like I was
saying earlier, my mom has aJack Russell Terrier and she
does not realize she's so small.
She wants to play fetch all thetime and if you threw a fence
post for her, she would try tofigure out a way to bring that
fence post back to you.
Like it's just insane how theirtenacity, I guess you could say
(08:11):
and how tough they are, and Ijust couldn't imagine you know,
a bit bigger and it being, youknow, the Og Terry with such a
high prey drive.
Yeah, I mean, I read about thema little bit.
I mean basically coons,groundhogs, possums, wild boar,
everything in between.
And then I know some peoplehave used them for blood
tracking and then I think I sawon your Facebook they're even
(08:34):
really good swimmers, are theynot?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, the one thing, the Yacht Terriers they're bred
to be versatile.
So, like I mean, there's dogs,there's some of the dogs in our
uh, in the breed that areretrieving, you know, doing
awesome retrieving, and they'llswim too, like they don't care.
We do, uh, and a lot of thetesting we try to do at our
trials, you know, includes, youknow, some tracking and stuff
(08:59):
like that there's.
There's dogs that sell in allof them.
Um, the big thing with that isyou got to keep that terrier
interested and sometimes theyhave the attention span of a P,
yeah, and they lose interest andif something flushes out in
front of them, good luck,because they're going to run it
down just because it moved infront of them sometimes.
(09:21):
But, yeah, they have awesometracking ability.
They're super versatile andabout any and anything you put
them in.
There's even guys using them inbite sports, which you know
it's every, every breed has itshave, its place.
You know the the hog terriercan do it, but it's it's not
going to excel as much as likeyour mountain walls or your
(09:42):
german shepherds and stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, Right, Um, so you said it's the the bite
sports.
They put them in that.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, there's.
It's kind of.
It's kind of like a bad thingthat everyone's looking for that
, that small pocket dog thatthey can use in the bite sports
stuff.
But in order to get some of thelike required stuff, um, I'm
not quite sure, I'm not reallyfamiliar with it, but I know
there's guys using them.
But I know some of the bitesports events like one of them
(10:13):
is, they have to, like, take adumbbell over top of a of a
barrier some sort and okay, yeah, and it just it.
You put a, you know even a 20pound yacht and you have a five
pound dumbbell.
It ain't gonna jump overanything with it.
It's gonna try, though they'lltry anything yeah, oh yeah,
it'll try um so that's, that'sthe one thing I like about it.
(10:37):
you can't get them to.
You seem to get them to quit.
I had set out this year to kindof see if I could get a dog to
just give up, like mentally, onstuff that it can do, and I've
yet to find it Like they'll dowhatever, they'll keep going.
Um, that's the one thing I likeabout them.
To drive in them, it's justabsolutely nuts.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, I think that's the terrier breed in general.
They just don't have any backdown or or quit in them.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, that's.
Have any back down or or quitin them?
Yeah that's.
That's 100 percent the what Isee out of them too.
Like I, uh, a couple years agoI was down in georgia at a hog
bay um, and we ended up winningit, and my little female, I,
broke her leg during the run,but we went up to take our
pictures.
We had to go back by the penand as soon as we got close to
the pen she was back to fourlegs, ready to go again, and she
(11:25):
probably would have went, but Ijust couldn't.
I wasn't going to make her doit.
I got home and found out herleg was broke.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's a.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So yeah they're.
They're amazing little dogs.
That's all I can say.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I mean.
So is there two different kindsof coats on the?
Is there a flat coated one in acurly coated one, or are they
all kind of curly or?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, so what they have is they have.
So there's, there's three,three coat types Um, you'll have
like a smooth coat, which wouldbe your, you know your shorter
fine hair.
You have your broken coat,which is, um, it's long but it's
not super long, and then theyalso have a long coat.
That's, that's super long.
(12:13):
So the, the broken coat isprobably what you're going to
see most of um, and then thereis also the fine hair stuff, um,
the over smooth coat, as wecall them, and they're all
pretty much about the same.
As far as black and tan, youmay have a different mask or
like a different tan on thechest, but they're all going to
(12:35):
be black and tan.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Okay, all right.
So you're talking a lot aboutearthworks earlier.
So for those that don't knowanything about it, I mean, what
is it?
How do you start a dog in it?
And then what are the?
You know?
There's competitions, I'massuming, and all that just kind
of goes from there.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So earthworking is.
So what you'll do is it's theway we start puppies is you know
we'll be hunting, and we'lljust free cast dogs.
Puppies is you know we'll sendit, we'll be hunting with just
free cat dogs.
We'll usually walk in along umlike ditch banks or ditch banks,
brush piles, fence, roads,stuff like that, and the dog
will actually um enter theground with the quarry.
(13:18):
So they'll go in um and they'llgo to the quarry and of course
we all have tracking equipment,stuff to track the dog
underground.
So when the dog goes in andengages, you kind of let the dog
settle in and get used to.
You know, just start workingthe quarry to keep that, prevent
that quarry, whether it's goingto keep running through the
(13:39):
tunnel system or if that quarryis going to just stay there, and
just let us get to them.
And then, once the dog settlesin, we'll mark it with our
locators and then we'll just digstraight down to them.
The rule of thumb when diggingto a dog, you want to have your
hole about as big around as youcan dig in.
So if you have, you know, say,a four foot, a four foot they're
(14:01):
four foot down you'll open up ahole that's forefoot around and
you'll get straight down.
So you have plenty of room towork, to pull that dog out.
Essentially, if somethinghappens we end up getting into,
you'll be.
You can be anything from a foxso it'll be fox, skunks,
groundhogs, raccoons, possum andout west, some of the guys
(14:26):
actually dig badger with them.
So that's what they are.
When I got into the terrierbreed I was like there's no way
these dogs are going to ground.
I'm not packing a shovel, I'mnot doing all that.
Well, it all changed Now.
I keep dogs, we know we tonethem down.
(14:46):
I kind of put weight on them inthe summer, in the winter,
because we're doing a lot moreabove ground work like barns and
abandoned houses and stuff likethat or brush piles, so they've
got to have a little bit moremeat on them and weight on them
to.
You know, handle themselves.
But in the summer we cut.
I'd send the dogs down, we.
But in the summer we cut, I'dsend the dogs down.
We'd do a lot of conditioning,I'd do a lot of flat metal,
(15:09):
running with them and swimmingjust to get them toned up and
skinny so we can get into thesmaller holes in the ground and
work.
So yeah, that's the Earth game.
The Earth game is a rush.
You don't know what you'regetting to most of the time.
I mean until you get to it,because they all sound about the
same when they're underneathbrown and stuff.
Um, as far as the yeah, it's thefirst time.
(15:32):
The first time I did it, um, Iwas just walking my male dog
coma.
We were, we were just out for astroll in the spring and I had
no equipment.
I, I had my Garmin collar andthat was it.
Didn't even have a shovel in mytruck or nothing.
And then we're walking throughthe woods, walking through the
pasture, and then GD is like.
(15:53):
I see him pick his head up andjust bolt straight for a hole
and then he goes and I'm likeI'm panicking at that time.
I'm calling my breeder, I'mcalling my guy my buddies out
west, you know, done this forfor years and I panicked and he
was underground for probably twoand a half hours ish and I I
(16:16):
couldn't tell where he was at.
So I called one of my buddiesand he come out and I went home,
got a shovel and starteddigging and finally opened up
and I heard him.
I stuck my head down the holeand you could hear him coming.
So he come running through andI just caught him just barely.
He was going past people that Ihad uh pulled him out.
We didn't actually didn't get achance to get to it and uh,
(16:38):
yeah, it was.
It was definitely something,something new to me that I had
never experienced before.
Now I'm hooked on it and Iwon't go back.
And you had asked about how westart puppies, so like we'll
send them in and we'll open up aschooling hole, as we call it.
So we'll open it up and we knowthat the whole end, where he's
(17:01):
going to stay there, we'll put apitchfork in front of the game
so the dog gets the coming downat a weird angle and sees the
animal, but it can't get bit.
So I learned that from huntingwith the jackrus, because that's
how they like to go, becausethey don't like their dog to go
in and bay.
They don't like the collateraldamage, they want the dog to bay
(17:24):
so they can get to the quarry,identify it.
And then either.
The Jags are different.
They like to go in and theylike to be engaged, they like to
.
They let them fur, that's theirreward.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Okay, so the Jack Russells are more bay them as in
, like kind of hold them there,and then the Yags are like
they're going in to fight them.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We're going in to have a little fight going on,
because a lot of times when I'mstarting a Yacht Terrier I will
just show them the game and Iwon't let them have it.
And then about six months Ilike to let my puppies be a
puppy for about a year, right,and then once they hit that one
(18:09):
one year mark, it's full contactIf they want it, if they don't
want it, we'll take our time alittle bit slower with it.
But there's a lot of timeswhere I will start a dog at like
eight to 10 months with with araccoon, a small one or possum
with the soft tricks of thepossum just peels over when a
dog gets into it, but a pot buta raccoon will fight pretty good
.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, wow.
That's a, that's incredible,just the size of the dogs and,
um, you know, doing that and Icouldn't imagine.
I mean, I'm a coon, houndhunter and uh and a beagler and
um, yeah, I couldn't imagine mydogs going underground.
Like you said, it'd be kind ofnerve-wracking the first time.
So how, I mean they must bequite a scene sometimes because
(18:51):
you think I know groundhogsabove ground, they can be pretty
vicious.
I mean, those teeth have enoughpower to bite through tree
roots and everything.
What is the outcome when yougot a yog terrier dive into a
hole after it?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
so, um, actually, you know, a dog learns underground
pretty quick, or once they getchewed on.
Where the business is like my,I mean you'll deal with, you
know, face, face puncture wounds, um, you know, just puncture
wounds in general is what youdeal with, nothing really major.
The worst, the worst I've hadpersonally myself.
(19:27):
Um, this year we were datinggroundhogs over on a farm that I
have permission for and, uh, wemarked the set, we got down to
it A Jack Russell's.
I had actually found the setand we opened it up and we got a
picture.
They wanted to just identify itfor their purposes.
(19:47):
But on my permissions I have todispatch all reckons possums and
ground bugs because they causeda lot of damage to a farmer's
crops, and I sent my biggerfemale in Maud.
She went in and she was engagedwith it and she's very smart
(20:09):
when she works games.
She likes to grab, essentiallylike right by the top of the
head and just hold.
So we went in and the tails onthe terriers, they call them
handles.
You can pull them out of holesthat way.
So she had went in, she engagedwith the groundhog and she
(20:30):
usually grabs by the top of thehead and we tried to draw a
little bit and she had let go.
And she come out and I lookedat and her front, her bottom lip
, was just hanging.
So I looked at her in the holeand like I handed her out
because it's probably a six foot, five and a half six foot dig
(20:52):
and I handed her out to one ofthe girls that was with me
digging.
I said, is that her lip hanging?
And she said, oh yeah, it'shanging.
Well, just take her to thetruck and clean her up and then
we'll get this out and put mymale dog back in to work it.
And he actually drew it out andwe stuck it.
We kind of pinned it to theground.
(21:13):
We ended up dispatching it inthe hole in the ground 25 pounds
and that was the worst I had.
So I learned the one thing youlearn with terriers pretty quick
is kind of how to doctor themup or at least get them stuck
back together enough to get themto a vet.
So Sunday, that was on a Sundayand they're like well, she
(21:34):
needs to go to the emergency vetand this, this and this.
You know I'm not, I'm not brokeby any means, but all I could
think about was there goes aboutfive grand.
You know in the back of my head, yeah Easy.
You know, on a Sunday emergencycall and luckily I have a good
relationship with my vet, um andI called and whenever I have an
(21:57):
issue, you know, like on a week, and I'll call her and I'll
leave her a voicemail and sheusually gets me in right away.
But I knew in my head all I hadto do was get that lip, you
know, stuck back up so thetissue didn't start dying out or
drying out.
You know I've been thankful inthe terrier world.
I've met a lot of people thathave dealt with situations
similar, and so we got right onthe phone.
(22:20):
One of my best friends was uphere from St Louis.
Andrew is super calm, the wholething.
I'm freaking out.
Andrew's like, take a step back.
We're going to make some phonecalls, We'll figure this out.
We have enough stuff here tofix this dog.
So we kind of went through and Isaid well, because we all have
a staple gun, staples are a bigthing in the Terriers because
(22:42):
they're quick and easy and youcan fix about anything with a
staple gun.
So we came to the consensusthat we needed to stitch over
staple on the lit.
So I made a couple phone callsand I found an old guy up that
lives just on the border ofIndiana and Michigan.
He lives right on the border,so I called him.
(23:05):
And michigan, he lives right onthe border.
So I called him and he said,yeah, I got a stooge here.
So we actually drove up to himand we we put five stitches in
her bottom lip just to get itheld, you know, for the night,
and I put her in the kennel andkept her quiet.
And so monday rolls around and Iwork in the rv factory so we
usually get off work fairlyearly.
Well, it just so happened Idon't know if it was the Terrier
(23:27):
, gods, whatever, bringing goodluck down on me or whatever but
we happened to have like a minorfire at work and they wouldn't
let us go back to work.
So they sent us home at 6.30 inthe morning.
So I was like perfect, I gothome at.30 in the morning.
So I was like perfect, I gothome at like 7.30.
I hopped in my truck, drove tomy vet and I walked in.
I said I know I called you guys, she goes.
(23:49):
Yeah, we were looking at theschedule and she goes.
Well, you're here before myfirst appointment and she goes.
Well, she goes, yeah, bring herin, I'll take a look at her.
And so Monday took her into thevet and my vet goes this is
your first time ever stitching.
I said, yeah, she goes, not toobad for a first time.
(24:10):
And we both kind of chuckledbecause I made the comment well,
I'm practically a vet now andshe said, well, I said I think I
need a stitch on the inside ofthe lip and I have no way to put
her down to do that, to put herunder, to do that.
She goes, yeah, bring her backin on Tuesday and I'll put her
under and I'll clean everythingup and restitch her.
And she made a full recovery,thankfully.
(24:30):
But I've heard I've heardmultiple horror stories on of
going to ground.
I've heard, uh, fox are verynotorious for actually backing
into a tight hole and grabbingthe dog by the face and twisting
Okay.
So I heard one of the girlsthat has a Jack Russell.
Her Jack Russell actually hadevery bone broken, from its eye
(24:53):
socket down from a fox grabbingand twisting.
Jeez, or what they'll do isthey'll pull him in and try to
suffocate a dog.
It's kind of tricky but like.
If you dig with the right peopleor you learn people, it's not
as stressful as it soundsbecause they you know, they've
been a lot of the people I'vebeen digging with for 20 plus
(25:14):
years, and so you just you learnhow to.
When it was underground,listening to what's happening
underneath the ground, becauseyou can pretty much tell what's
going on.
You can hear a dog breathing,you can talk around, you can
tell whether the dog's moving,you can tell whether it's
engaged.
You know from what you'rehearing out of the hole.
So the hole whispering is alsoa big key in it, because you can
(25:38):
tell a lot what's going on inthe ground from where the dog's
acting or what noise they'remade.
Um, and that's that's.
The one thing I can't stressenough is, if you're going to
learn to do it, try to learn itthe right way.
It's hard to get in into agroup of people that will take
you hunting, but getting thatinitial time going with someone
because I'll tell you right nowI'm still alert and it's a a lot
(26:02):
of it's always a learning.
You learn something new fromevery set, which is what I found
out pretty wild, even thesepeople, the girls that have been
doing it for so long they'relike oh yeah, this is still,
this is a new one for us.
And you have, it's crazy howmuch you learn from set to set.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Oh yeah, exactly.
I mean I was going to ask doyou find this is getting more
popular, like in your area or inthe United States in general?
You getting the Yag Terriers?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
The Yag Terriers, I think, are getting more popular.
But I think a lot of them aregetting popular because
everybody thinks they want one,but once they get one they don't
realize that.
You know, everybody has thatstigma of being dog aggressive,
people aggressive.
You can't raise them in thehouse, you can't do this, you
(26:59):
can't do that.
But then somebody sees whatpeople are doing with them.
They're like, want one, butthen they get one and then they
realize it's it's a handful,like they can't handle it
because they don't give them ajob.
They expect them to.
You know, oh, I can hunt it onoccasion.
It's going to be fine.
But I know that sometimes ifthey're, if they don't get
hunted, they turn to get to meat grumpy because they're not
(27:21):
getting work.
So it's kind of it is gettingmore popular over here.
But a lot of people also want todo earthwork.
So I don't think the earthworkwill ever be as big as any of
the cocoon hunting or anythinglike that, because it's work.
Nobody wants to go out and diga hole in the weather or in the
(27:43):
middle of the winter being outdigging a dog where it's frozen.
But they're getting.
I think they're growing inpopularity Like I don't know if
I'd call it like a fad breed,but it might be like one of
those fads that may come in andkind of fade out once people
realize that, oh, this is not,this ain't for me.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not , this ain't for me, yeah, yeah,
I mean I'm guessing it's likeany working breed, they need to
be worked or they can be a bitof a terror.
The terrier can be a terror athome.
As far as like, if they areworked, you know, regularly,
three, even four times a week,are they pretty good in the
(28:25):
house.
You said yours can turn it offoff, turn off work mode and just
kind of blaze around a bit, canthey, and relax or yeah, yeah,
like I mean there's, there'stime to um.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
but I mean the story, I mean my man, when he, when
he's ready to hunt or he's tired, like he'll get an attitude,
he'll get grumpy and kind ofjust growl at you and and then
you give him, you go out and youwork him, or you go catch a
raccoon I like going, cause Iwould do a lot of uh, like field
hunting and just walk down afield or ditch and they'll just
(28:55):
get whatever they want and oncehe gets chewed on a little bit,
he's fine for a while.
I mean, I've come home and myfemale on the other side, like
she, she always wanted to begoing, she always had to go, had
to go, had to go, always moving, couldn't stop.
And I come home one day and shehad actually shewed a hole
through the sidewall of my houseand her head was stuck out the
(29:18):
siding.
It looked like one of thosecartoons and I was like, okay,
so you've been cooped up for toolong.
I guess we got to work now andI got to fix the house.
Yeah, jeez, it is possible tohave a Yogg in the house.
There's a lot of people that dohave their Yogg carriers in the
house.
A lot of people.
They're easy to live with ifthey're being worked.
(29:41):
If they're not being worked,they're not being worked.
Good luck.
I mean, it's just like anythingelse if they don't have a job,
you're gonna have your handsfull.
I like to compare them to a 12pound malinois.
That's what they are, they're.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
they're very compatible to a malinois so are,
are they pretty good aroundother dogs?
If they've been worked, I'mguessing, if they've been cooped
up for a bit of time and stuff,they could be, you know,
grumpier with other dogs.
But uh, in general are theyfairly easy to get along with um
, yes and no.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So that right there has a lot to do with you know
who they came from, breed wise,and as long as you socialize
them, they're fine.
I mean, my male dog plays witheverybody, get a little growly
here and there I've had.
I've had some, I mean, unlesssome dog fights, but they're not
(30:36):
like, they aren't just likegoing out to look for a fight.
Because that's what I wasworried about when I got my
first one is cause I got him asa problem dog.
Okay, you know, I had thestigma in the back of my head of
oh, you can't have them withanother dog, that's still
another dog, yada, yada, yada.
Well, his problem was he ate acouple of chickens and I was
(30:57):
like, well, I ain't got nochicken, so send him up here,
he'll be fine.
And I brought him home.
I had coyote hounds and hedidn't bother with them.
I've thrown them in boxes withthem, I've cut them together on
short runs and they've been fine.
So if you socialize them andyou kind of nip the dog
(31:18):
aggression in the butt at anearlier age, you won't have a
problem with it, as long as youstay on it.
If you let them get away withit.
They tend to hold grudges.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And then you just have your hands full.
Okay, yeah, that's fair enoughWith hunting them, do you?
If you're going out and you setthem loose?
I mean, is it just anybody'sguess what they're going to go
after?
It could be a coon, it could bea possum, it could be a ground
dog.
Can you kind of, when you'regoing out on a certain hunt, can
you sort of deter them fromgoing after a type of quarry, or
(31:55):
it's just, it's their world andyou're living in it when you're
off for a hunt.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's their world and you're living in it.
I mean, I try to, I try to deerbreak all my stuff, but yeah,
essentially these terriers arethese dogs, that's, that's what
they are like.
I, I don't care, I don't carewhat we're hunting or what they
end up with.
As long as they, um, as long asthey show me quarry and and fur
, I'm good with whatever theywant to run.
If we want to go run rabbitsand they want to chase rabbits
down, we'll go chase rabbits.
If they want to snatch araccoon, we'll snatch a raccoon.
(32:29):
That's mainly what we go afterthe bar mitzvah.
We try to avoid skunks, butunfortunately it does happen and
there's a whole for that withthe skunks oh yeah yeah.
so what is that?
That musk that the skunk emits,you know, with the spray will
(32:54):
actually suffocate a dog.
What it does is it gets inthere, they inhale it and it
gets into their bloodstream andit robs all their oxygen.
So, no matter what, if a doggoes to ground and we smell
skunks, no, we don't wait likewe open up, get as much air to
the dog as possible and, wherethere's, and we pull them out
(33:15):
and you take edge shave gel, theoriginal edge shave gel, put it
on them.
That covers the smell.
But if the dog starts, you know,acting like funny, looks like
it's having, can't reallybreathe and it's kind of falling
out, you you immediately wantto call your vet and you want to
tell the vet treat the dog as acat that just ate Tylenol, and
(33:38):
it's the same effect, has thesame effect on it as like a cat
that ate a bunch of Tylenol, andyou can save a dog pretty quick
that way.
So, like I have a, I have astunk kit in my truck that has,
you know, gloves, rags, shavegel, and it's got a laminated
paper in there of exactly whatto tell your vet in that
(34:03):
situation, like word for wordwhat they say, and it's actually
wrote out by a vet that workscarriers.
I believe he's in New Jersey.
I want to say he's in New Yorkand New Jersey but he actually
wrote that out to give tosomeone you know, just so you
can read that up and have thatas a resource that you're paying
(34:25):
attention to get the dogessentially taken care of and
fixed.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay, wow, that's, wow, that's handy.
So what were you saying?
The shave gel does again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
The edge shave gel, it'll cut down the scent and
then you can just put it on themand it'll at least make it
manageable.
It's not going to 100% take it,because you're still going to
have that skunk smell, but ifyou get it on right away, as
soon as it happens, it cuts thatscent down tremendously.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Okay, that's good to know, Really good to know.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
And that works on every dog.
And then there's, like hydrogenperoxide that you can do
afterwards.
But, like I said, I've beenback on wood.
I've been fortunate to not haveto deal with a skunk yet, but
I'm sure it's coming.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Do you guys have porcupines down there or no?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We don't have porcupines.
That's lucky, Because I know mybiggest fear.
When I was running on Kyle theyused to go up into Michigan,
the north of Michigan, and runand they said, oh yeah, we got a
porky, Find him.
They're like great, I'm runninga trashy, not real trashy, a
trashy paddock.
(35:45):
He trashes on 10.
So he's going to think that's awreck.
All I can think about is thatthey're pulling quills for an
hour and a half or whatever.
I'm in that region where Idon't have it, but I've heard
horror stories of dogs going toground with them and then them
having to pull a dog out andthen pull quills for hours on
(36:06):
end.
And of course, everything's inthe face because the holes they
don't go anywhere else butstraight to the face because
that holds.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
you know they don't go anywhere else, but straight
to the face.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm thankfulfor not having to deal with them
.
Yeah, yeah, that's really lucky.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I know I've heard guys say I have a buddy that I
had a lot of experience with andhe's like they're not as bad as
what people think they are.
But you know, for me you me nothaving to deal with them, I
think that just sounds like theworst possible case scenario is
having to pull clothes for hours.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, it's not fun in trying to hold the dog well
enough so you can get the pliersin there and the dog's biting
at you and everything, becauseobviously it's incredibly
painful and, yeah, that's not agood time.
So you guys are lucky for nothaving to deal with that, and I
imagine the way that thoseTerriers are is.
You know, they just go fulltilt at them and it'd be a mess.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, and the way I see it going is I see them, you
know, fill in the quills, like,hit them, and then they're like
like oh, game on now.
Now we're ready to party, we'regoing to hit it harder now and
they're just going to go back inand just keep repeatedly
getting it.
Because that's that seems to belike my male dog.
I like to compare him to a cat,because he's one of those like,
(37:25):
if we catch a tune above groundor even underground, he likes
to get a couple times okay, I'mseeing red, now it's over.
He goes in and eventually getsa good hold on it and dispatches
the raccoon.
But there's just no reason thathe'll go in and he'll get bit a
little bit.
He'll get bit a little more andthen it's like okay, I've had
enough, now I'm done.
(37:46):
So I just feel like they'rejust going to go in there and
take as many quills as theypossibly can before they realize
that, oh, this is bad yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, no, it's definitely lucky that you don't
have that.
Yeah, I mean, thanks so much,nick, for coming on and giving
us a bit of an insight into thisunique world of these amazing
dogs.
I mean, like you were sayingearlier, if these things were
100 pounds, they soundabsolutely terrifying.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
There's nothing like that.
I've heard stories of guys bearhunters using them to go in and
they'll, essentially, once thebear's on the ground and they
want to get the hounds off,they'll send a little terrier in
to pester them.
And those young terriers theydon't.
A little terrier in to pesterthem, those young terriers, they
don't care, they'll distractthat bear so they can pull the
dogs off and then they'll callthe terrier off.
(38:38):
And the terriers, they're cool.
Like I said, they're a fun breedto do and, like I said, I
encourage anybody that'sinterested in them.
They can reach out to me onFacebook and I'll sell them in
on stuff and I do.
The one thing I did like to Iwould like to add is if you're
looking to get into a terrier,try to get to one of the AWTA
(39:03):
trials.
Put your hands on these dogsbefore you get one and watch
them work.
Talk to the breeders that arethere, the guys that are in the
club.
I learned so much more thanwhat you can via Facebook or
even on Google, because you'regoing to get a thousand
different answers and this, thisand this.
But if you can get to a trialand put hands on one and talk to
(39:26):
them a lot of that will helpyou guys get started.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean that's really goodadvice because I find that, yeah
, I think maybe enough peopledon't do that when they are
looking for a working dog,whether it be a terrier or a
hound or even some of the birddogs or whatever it may be is
that, yeah, they watch a lot ofYouTube videos that make it look
great and read about it, but Imean, you can't beat hands-on
(39:51):
being there with the dog andtalking to experienced people
about it and seeing you know, isthis the right breed for me?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
That's what I see happening.
That's what I see happeningwith a lot of this.
People don't do their homeworkand they're like, oh, I love the
idea I have one, and then theyget one and it's just like, oh
wow, I got my hands full, Ican't take it, and that's why
they end up at the shelter.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really good.
So what was the organization?
You said again, what was the A?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's A-H-T-A, the American Hunt Terrier
Association.
Okay, that association.
Okay, um, that's the, that isthe, the american jag carrier
club.
Um, there's, we have, uh, fourtrials a year, um, the quote,
one in michigan, we have one inkentucky, one in texas and one
(40:46):
in south dakota, and the, theclub's small and like, when we
get together at these trialsit's everyone's welcome and like
.
What I try to do is I'm big ongetting the youth involved, or
getting people that can't can'tget a dog to do to, you know,
get their feet wet, they canhandle it.
There was a gentleman thatshowed up to our Kentucky trial
(41:11):
and the dad came in Friday andit was like, hey, my son's
really interested in dogs buthe's in a wheelchair.
Can he get to these, theseevents and stuff?
Everything was pretty close tohere.
The only one we have to gosomewhere to is for the water
rate.
And so Saturday morning I sawhim pull up and I was like,
(41:33):
because I take, I pack four tofive Terriers every trial, so
you know, I have countlessribbons, countless awards.
He came in and I walked overand I was like, hey, are you
going to be around all day?
He said yeah.
I said I just got too many dogs.
Do you want to handle one forme?
He goes, oh, goes, oh.
Absolutely I'd love that.
So I gave him my male dog andhe took him through all the
(41:56):
trials and all the competitionsand stuff and placed pretty well
with him.
That's the one thing.
They raffle off puppies at thesetrials.
I think I've won.
I've won two and none of themhave made them back to my house.
I give them to you.
One of my good friends insouthern Indiana, his boy.
(42:19):
We were down in Texas and I wonthe puppy and I walked over to
his boy and said well, go pickyour puppy.
I ain't taking it home, I justtry to get everybody involved.
It's a fun organization to beinvolved with and we're big on
pushing the youth try to geteverybody involved.
So it's like it's a good.
It's a fun organization to beinvolved with and we're big on,
you know, pushing the youth andgetting the youth involved.
There's not a lot of peoplethat want to get interested into
it anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, that's really great to hear, nick.
It's just, you know, getting,like you say, getting youth
involved and giving people apositive experience with it and
with any kind of hunting dogs is, you know, the more people we
can get on our side, the more ofa voice we have and a vote, and
, you know, just to be able totry to keep this going, this
(43:01):
tradition, this, uh, you know,hobby sport, whatever you want
to call it, passion yeah, that's, that's the the one thing you
know.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
I went, I've done a lot of travel and I mean I've
been, I've traveled all over thecountry with these dogs and
I've gone to, you know,different events.
I've gone to the jrtca events,which is the jack russell of
america, america events, and youknow like our trials are are
fairly, you know, there's ayounger crowd.
I mean it's getting older, butthe Jack Russell Club is a lot
(43:34):
of older folks and we notice, assome of them are getting, you
know, up in age and they're notpassing on that tradition or
passing on that knowledge ofdigging you know the dogs or
doing the earthwork to help thepeople out the right way to get
started.
And that's why I was like youknow I'm not going to be, I'm
going to learn the people outthe right way to get started and
that's why I was like you knowI'm not gonna be, I'm gonna
learn the best I can and I'mgonna try to, you know, pass it
(43:56):
on to people and have theopportunity that are interested
but don't know how to getstarted, and that's kind of my.
My goal I set out to do withthese little terriers is I just
want to, I want to learn and Iwant to help keep it alive
because it is a fun activity.
I know that digging doesn'tsound fun, but it's a fun
(44:18):
activity.
The one thing I've noticedsince I've had the terriers is
sometimes, when you're coonhunting or you're beagle hunting
, you have a hard time gettingaccess to ground.
It seems if you tell a farmer,no matter what they are, if you
tell them here, I just want tocome out, I don't want to kill
varmints on your farm, I want todo your groundhogs, your
(44:41):
raccoons, your possums.
If I dig, I'll fill my holesback in, plus another one.
That's what I always tell myfarmers.
If I dig a hole, I like to tryto fill up holes and make it
look like I wasn't there.
And that's the one thing I'venoticed about the tears is it's
super easy to gain access toproperty that way.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, just a pile of hunting opportunity.
And you know that's great toois putting it back the way you
found it Well, even better thanhow you found it, and that's
what keeps, you know, the nextperson that comes along be able
to do it, and so on and so forth, and just there's lots of
people that are getting intothis, lots of area to do it and,
you know, possibly help growthe sport even more.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, that's the one thing with the earthworking's
it's kind of a dying way overhere, but you know, over Europe
it's huge, like that's all theydo.
Um, one of my friends that I'vemet through the carriers that
actually sold me all of my, my,my digging equipment, my
tracking collars and stuff.
He's originally from Irelandand they dig badger box all the
(45:49):
time and it's just, it's acommon practice over there.
Over here it's a bit of a tabooor like kind of a of a gray
area.
I want to say, um, becauseyou're not, you don't, you don't
want to, you don't want to getyourself into an issue with,
like you know, the game wardens,obviously, but if you're
digging varmint they don't havea problem with it.
(46:11):
It seems to me it's like theykind of look at you like you're
crazy.
They're like, okay, well, havefun, and they, they just cut
their nose and go the other way.
Yeah, but it's, it's definitely, it's definitely a fun thing to
get into it and it seems likeyour season never ends, like you
could dig all year round.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
You could do tail all year round and they're super
portable and very affordable tofeed yeah, I mean just looking
at your facebook, I love seeinguh the pictures and all that and
with all the yeah, there's adifferent quarry in a lot of
your pictures throughout theyear I've noticed and, like you
said, it just doesn't seem toend.
So it's great it just, uh,gives you more time outside with
(46:50):
your working dog and be able towork it.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, it's definitely fun.
I encourage anybody who'ssomewhat interested in you know
the terrier stuff or even have aJack Russell, your little house
Jack Russell might surprise youwhen you give it the
opportunity to get that thingout and let it run a little bit
and stretch it.
You might end up with a with abang up earth dog that that was
(47:16):
working.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, I think this is good andthis you coming on this podcast
as well probably help, uh, youknow, to reach more people that
are kind of maybe contemplatedit before and the thought
crossed their mind.
Now they hopefully they'llcheck out, uh, you know, some of
these organizations you'retalking about and maybe go in
person and possibly findthemselves a dog at the end of
(47:38):
the day.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, um, there's the .
There's two main organizations.
You have the, the HTA, which isthe Jack Terrier Club um for
America, and you have what'sknown as the AWTA, which is the
American Working TerrierAssociation, and that covers all
(48:00):
working terrier breeds.
So you're looking at your DashHounds, your Patterdales, your
Jags, your Jack Russells,there's even some Border
Terriers in there, so it justcovers all your, all your
working breeds, and that's agood organization also to get
involved with.
And they have, um, what theycall den piles.
So that would be an artificialtunnel setup, um, where they
(48:23):
have corn at the end, which isusually rats, and it has to go
through this.
There's an elevation change.
Some of the tunnels are evenburied underground, so it's very
real and it's just the fastesttime to the quarry at the end.
And it's kind of fun to watchand it's amazing watching a dog
(48:45):
go to ground and just work, evenin the tunnels.
It's fun to watch because youknow you'll put up really fast
times but the dog has to sortthrough.
There may be an object in therethat they have to know which
way is the dead end, there's afalse out, and then obviously
you have the inquiry and it'sfun.
I haven't been to an AWTA trialpersonally, but our AHA trials
(49:08):
are very similar to what they dowith their AWT trials.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Okay, yeah, it sounds interesting, I know yeah it'd
be cool to see I mean comparedjust coming from the Coon Hill
and we're on the Beagles andthen just taking the chase
underground.
Yeah, I think it would be coolto watch.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Definitely a sight to see.
It's a new experience, likebecause I, you know, I have
buddies that are big into thecompetition, tune hounds and you
know they, they say, oh, wewalked you know 10 miles tonight
.
But above and I say, well,let's, let's go, but that
doesn't sound like fun at all.
I'm like you just told me youwalked 10 miles last night, yeah
(49:53):
, to look at a raccoon, and thatdoesn't even sound fun.
But it's a lot of fun, you know, if you get a good group of
people around that you can learnfrom and have experience.
It takes the stress away, itgets that dog entering the
ground and, you know,essentially being gone.
Because that's the one thing Icouldn't get over, because I
(50:14):
didn't have the proper equipment, which is the Bellman Flint
earth collars.
I had to.
I always thought when the doggot out of sight, you struck a
shovel and you ducked, youessentially burrowed in behind
him.
Well, that bit me in the buttbecause my male dog was like, oh
(50:34):
, I hear a shovel coming, I'mright.
So he likes to stay underground, no matter what, whether
there's Corey in it or not, andit's frustrating.
But and it's not like I'm goingto get rid of him for it
because every dog that I havehas a specific job, from my
terriers to my lurcher.
So my lurcher, she's asighthound that's above ground
(50:58):
to watch for a game that'sbolting and if it's in to draw
so I'll use him male dog back inand he'll know where to engage,
so I can stick around him whereI can get my lurcher in to draw
the quarry out, right, yeah, soevery dog I own has a job, from
(51:20):
my little female to my bigfemale and everybody in between.
They have we call it tools inthe toolbox and they all have
different jobs.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yeah, the lurcher.
That's interesting.
It's a unique addition to.
I mean I suppose it would gohand in hand if the thing
something just flies up out ofthe hole while you know the
terrier's in there.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, so what my lurcher is?
She's greyhound, whip it and asplash of pit bull in her.
So she's very leggy, verymuscle and fast.
And when I got her she was shecome from, she's originally from
Oregon and she was used onNutrius.
I guess with Nutrius they bolta lot and like my experience
(52:05):
like I've never had game bolt,but when game bolt it's just
chaos.
The first time I had bolted gameI was hunting and my female, my
little Yacht Terrier, went inand so I go, she's in the set.
So we walked down there andthere's a guy standing in front
of the hole.
(52:25):
There's a guy standing in frontof the hole and this raccoon
just comes bailing out and likegrabs onto his leg and then
bails off and takes off goingdown the creek.
And then another one comes up,goes the opposite way and my
buddy Andrew was with me in thetruck and he comes bailing out
of the truck and like leaps intothe creek and takes off on the
one on foot and trying to getthe other lurcher on it.
(52:47):
And I'm like, oh wait, my dog'sstill in there.
So I go down to stick my headin the hole.
Number three bails out and I'mlike, oh, and then here comes my
female and she's like what justhappened?
And it was, and I, and afterand since I've gotten my lurcher
(53:09):
, like I don't know how I did itwithout one.
You know, just if one bolts,you know that terrier doesn't
get out of the ground fastenough and the lurchers, they're
very good about the way on topof the hole and they'll just be
like taking a nap and lazy orthey'll hear something and then
they'll go.
As soon as it bolts, they goout and grab it.
Um, and I've had.
I've had where I was digging inthe middle of a hayfield for a
groundhog and my female had wentin and I was digging by myself,
(53:33):
which I don't, I don't reallylike to do, just because it's
kind of stressful, because youdon't have someone there to run
and get tools that can eithergive you a hand if you get into
a situation.
Yeah, um, but we're sitting outand my little female, athena,
went in and she engaged with thegroundhog and she pushed it
towards the exit and my lurcherwas laying there.
(53:56):
She heard it coming closer andcloser.
She just did her stick.
So it's funny because, you know,underneath the ground, athena's
like oh, it's getting away fromme and tagged my lurchers up
top thinking the same thing.
And when my little femaleunderneath let go and she tagged
, you know, took out thegroundhog and dispatched it, I
(54:19):
looked back in the hole andathena's like looking up at me
like what just happened?
Where did it go?
And she backed back in thinkingit went around her.
So I mean, I mean, adding alurcher to the earth game is
just it's fun when they bothclick and work together.
When we free cast you know findsets, you'll see my lurcher
with her head buried up to hershoulders checking holes for the
(54:42):
dogs.
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
That's pretty cool, yeah, yeah, awesome.
That's pretty cool, yeah, yeah,just having two breeds, two
dogs, but breeds that are sodifferent, uh, than working
together, you know, for man, youknow great, great example of
man's best friend.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
I guess you could say and when they click it's, it's
just it's.
It's funny to watch them clickand work together.
You know you have, you have adog that's.
You know my terriers are, youknow, between 12 and 18 pounds
and my lurcher she's about 65pounds.
You know she's big and leggy,so she fills my big dog but she
(55:20):
pairs phenomenally with mylittle dogs, which I was worried
when I got her because I wasn'tsure how it was with them,
because I've heard stories ofthe lurchers being hard on tears
if they're above ground theykind of focus in on them as game
.
But Tag has just filled all thevoids that I was missing in my
(55:41):
pack.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, that's great how she was just able to click
into like sit to your pack andwork out.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Yeah, and I've learned from her.
She's taught me things Like thefirst night I brought her home.
I drove to Wisconsin to get herbecause the guy had moved back
and I got home and we'd been onthe road for, you know, about
six hours and I got home and Iflipped her loose.
I just opened the car door, notthinking, and I didn't have a
(56:09):
tracker or anything.
She took off and I'm like, ohno, she's gone.
She took two laps around thehouse and came right back to the
car.
Ever since then she's beeninseparable, because I know any
other time that dog would havebeen gone.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Oh yeah, you hear about that.
No, that's really great thatthe mixture of breeds that she
is it's.
It's made in being in anunfamiliar place that she did
come right back yeah, and she's.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
She's one of those that I've I've learned, you know
, like the guy said, she goes oh, I don't know how she's gonna
be around kids, this, this andthis, but like she loves the
kids, she sleeps in my bed everynight.
I don't kennel her during theday, honestly.
I think she sleeps about 23hours a day, but when it's time
(56:55):
to work she'll work all day.
We've caught, I've checked herout behind the house and I've
sent her on groundhogs that were550 yards out in the field and
she's caught them before they'vegotten too old.
It's fun watching thesighthound work because they
just they get this, they get.
They just lock in and andthey're just gone.
(57:16):
They're just fastest thing,best thing I've ever seen work.
But if they get up to somethingand it doesn't fight back or
just move.
So I just whined.
I was I was deer hunting behindmy house and I'd watch the
possum come out in the field andI was like I'm deer hunting,
I'm not going to go in and gettagged.
And then I sat there foranother 10 minutes in the ground
(57:36):
and the possum's out there justantagonizing me.
I'm like all right, I guess Ilet my intrusive thoughts get
the best of me and I walked backto my house and I grabbed tag
and snuck out to the field and Isent it on the possum and she
saw it move.
I tried to make a break for thewoods and didn't make it.
But of course that possum sawthis big black dog come flying
(58:01):
at it and it balled up and juststopped moving and she was like
sitting there, whining at it,couldn't figure out what was
going on.
She's like sitting therewhining at it, couldn't figure
out what was going on.
She's like what are you doing?
And she was whining and finallyI talked her to biting and she
went and bought.
She went and bit on it and thentook it into the field and
tried to hide it from me.
But yeah, it's, it's funny with,like the sight hounds.
They're super soft-handed andyou can't really handle them
(58:24):
super hard.
Where it tears the completeopposite.
The terror sometimes needs tobe corrected fairly hard before
it it realizes that it's donewrong and it's.
I kind of have to adjust when II'm training her or working
with her, which is which is kindof hard.
So I'm used to my myknucklehead tears that you shock
them with the garment it's gottheir neck, shake it off and
(58:47):
then run away from here.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah, the Garmin they scratch their neck, shake it
off and then run away from you.
Yeah, I know, my mom's JackRussell is definitely stubborn.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
That's the one thing.
They're super stubborn andthey're kind of fun and they'll
do whatever you ask them to do.
That's the one thing I'velearned with mine.
I've actually made a job withthem.
Out of them, you know, we gointo um warehouses and find
detect mice with them and we'llfind rodents with them.
(59:16):
It's it's, it's wild that youcan get a dog to tone itself
down that much to work.
Yeah, and it's, it's a blast.
Yeah, yeah, because I got them.
I got them mainly, got themmainly for my nuisance wildlife
business to get in tight spotsthat I can get into.
So they're very versatile dogsfor about anything.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, well, they'd be a huge asset to a business like
that, for sure, dealing with,yeah, nuisance wildlife.
But yeah, no, like I said, nickthanks so much for telling us
about this breed and I know alot more about it than I did
going into this podcast.
I really I just knew that theywere a very high, strong, tough,
(01:00:02):
strong-willed dog and justlearning about the earthworks
and all that that was reallyinteresting.
So I said thanks for, uh, yeah,for opening up this world to us
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like I said, if anybody'sinterested they can feel free to
like me up on social media.
I try to get back to peoplepretty quick.
Um, and, like I said, if theywant to reach out, if they
interested in any of these clubtrials or anything going on, I'm
sure I can get them the datesfor them and, like I said,
they're more than welcome toshow up.
It's a good family event.
(01:00:34):
You know we have we do, we dogo to ground, we do confirmation
, we do tracking, we do treeing,we do a water race and then we
do kind of an exhibition highjump and these little dogs are
jumping anywhere between.
Some of these dogs are jumpingeight feet high up a wall.
So it's pretty, so it's prettyinteresting and you know we do
raffles and we try to welcomeeverybody into the, into the
(01:00:57):
club.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, oh, like I said , uh, thanks, and I'm sure we'll
have you on again because, uh,there's some more good stories
there.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Oh yeah, Like I said, I'm in deep into the Terrier
world and I think it's the nichethat I'm going to stick with.
I just have too much fun and Ienjoy everything I do with them.
this is hunts and outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto howos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
Yes, thanks, a pile forlistening.
In this week we have aninteresting one for you.
(00:36):
That's all about a small dogbreed with a big dog attitude
and feels that no job is too bigto get done, from taking on
wild boar to digging undergroundafter rodents.
Passionate dogman Nick Fox isgoing to tell us all about it.
If you're listening to thispodcast on Apple or Spotify, it
would be great if you couldleave us a rating and review on
there.
We really appreciate it.
Speaking about working dogs onhere today, you got to make sure
(00:58):
that they have the right foodin them to keep going.
I myself feed and recommendNook Shook dog food.
With it being the world'shighest energy dog food.
It will keep your best friendand hunter going all day long
easily in demanding conditions.
Check them out online, put inyour address and a trusted
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Also, check us out on FacebookHunts On Outfitting to contact
(01:22):
us and stay up to date withwhat's going on.
All right, let's get to it Allright.
Yes, like I said, thanks forcontacting me.
I've been really curious aboutthis breed and these dogs and
wanting to talk to somebody thatknows all about them.
But before we get into that,nick, where are you from and how
are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, I'm not too bad Digging out of the snow.
I'm located in northern Indiana.
I've been working dogs since Iwas in high school.
My first dog was a coon dog, soI was coon dogging for a while,
(02:03):
switched into the beagles andthen kind of fell out of the
beagles, jumped into the coyoteworld, ran coyote hounds for
about five years and then moved,kind of had life, life stuff
come up and sold out for aminute, and then I decided I
needed something, uh, somethingto in the house and something I
(02:25):
could work.
It was a little small, moreportable, so I ended up with
Yacht Terriers.
My first one was Koma, who isthree years old now.
Got him from a gentleman inKentucky, james Mills.
He was kind of the godfather ofthe breed in the States and
(02:47):
since then I kind of worked myway into doing all earth work
with my terriers and I added alurch to my pack this year.
She's a sighthound cross and Iuse her a lot to draw stuff out
of the ground.
And that's about where I'vebeen.
And now I'm hooked in prettydeep in the terrier world and
(03:10):
haven't looked back since.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, no, sounds like if there's an animal to chase
with dogs, you've owned it orbeen along to do it.
At least I'd say.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, that's the one thing.
I've always had a dog andalways liked working dogs.
It's kind of like my, my littleescape from the world, even
though it's sometimes you getstressful when you've got a dog
underground and we're out in thewoods, you know, and you end up
end up in some situations, butother than that, you know it's
it's a good time.
The terriers seem to havefilled the void that I was
(03:44):
looking for being small,portable and, yeah, they're
gamey and gritty enough tohandle anything.
That's what I like about themand they don't back down off of
nothing.
And I like the super high preydrive in the dogs.
It's kind of fun.
And then the other thing that'simportant with the Yacht
Terriers is they've got to havethe off switch.
So I raised four Yacht Terriersin the house and all mine sleep
(04:09):
in bed with me at night andthen we'd work the same day or
the next day and they'd shut itoff when we got home.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I find that it's kind of an old-timers thing thinking
that you can't have a goodworking dog and have them as a
pet in the house, which I mean,as you know and I know myself,
that's completely false.
But with the Yawg Terrier, canyou describe to us a little bit
about the breed, like their sizeand they are.
They're black and tan, so I'mguessing their origins they come
(04:41):
from Germany.
They seem to like their blackand tans.
Yeah, they come from uh germany.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
They seem to like their black and tans.
Yeah, um, they came over ingermany, came about during uh
the war and and nazi germany.
It was in their breedingprogram.
They had a couple differentspecies that they had in there
and I believe it was likethere's some horse that they had
in this and then they had thesedogs.
So it's kind of hard gettingthem over here.
So I mean a traditional YachtTerrier.
(05:07):
They range in size so it alldepends where you're at.
Personally, all my kennel stockis going to be your smaller end
Terriers.
So my smallest female she's 12pounds and my biggest one, my
(05:31):
biggest dog's 18 pounds.
But they go up to as big asI've seen them up to 30, 35
pounds, the Yacht Terriers.
And the one thing about theYacht Terrier is it's pretty
much a purpose bred dog.
So whatever you're using it foris where your size obviously
comes into play.
You know, because we go to thewest coast or to the south, a
lot of them are using them forlike hogs, big game bears and
lions and stuff.
(05:52):
But they're I mean obviouslythey're much larger than what I
have.
I'm kind of sticking to thesmaller end of dogs because I
enjoy doing the earth work,which would be.
You know it's hard to get ayacht carrier that's sizable to
work for earth.
So you know you want to stay inthe 12 to 15 pounds and or
(06:13):
softer chest so you can spanthem.
So spanning is where you takeyour hand behind the shoulder
and you want to be able to touchyour fingertips or wrap your
fingertips around it.
So the Yacht Terriers you knowthey fluctuate and a lot of the
guys are running a bigger YachtTerrier, which is fine.
I mean there's not a lot ofYacht Terriers that excel in the
(06:37):
Earth game over here becauseeverything's fairly big.
But they're pretty comparable tolike, like a Patterdale or a
Jack Russell.
They're a little bit more, I'mgoing to say, hard or tougher,
underground.
You won't have as much of a baydog like you do with the Jack
(06:57):
Russell.
You have more of a dog that'llgo in they call it mixer where
it'll go in and actually engagewith the quarry underneath and
hold it, because the jackrussells are more of a bay dog,
because you don't want to endthe hunt there they were.
The jack russells were popularwhen fox hunting was big in
(07:19):
europe and it's still big overthere, um to where you rip on
them with the hounds and oncethe fox hold you would put that
Jinder Jack Russell in orterrier in to flush the fox
again and continue the race.
So that's about the size that Igo for.
But, like I said, the YachtTerriers go anywhere from 15 to
(07:41):
35 pounds.
I've seen them as big as 40.
But at 40 pounds there's not acritter on the air safe, I mean
they can handle about anythingon their own.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, no, I believe it because, like I was
saying earlier, my mom has aJack Russell Terrier and she
does not realize she's so small.
She wants to play fetch all thetime and if you threw a fence
post for her, she would try tofigure out a way to bring that
fence post back to you.
Like it's just insane how theirtenacity, I guess you could say
(08:11):
and how tough they are, and Ijust couldn't imagine you know,
a bit bigger and it being, youknow, the Og Terry with such a
high prey drive.
Yeah, I mean, I read about thema little bit.
I mean basically coons,groundhogs, possums, wild boar,
everything in between.
And then I know some peoplehave used them for blood
tracking and then I think I sawon your Facebook they're even
(08:34):
really good swimmers, are theynot?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, the one thing, the Yacht Terriers they're bred
to be versatile.
So, like I mean, there's dogs,there's some of the dogs in our
uh, in the breed that areretrieving, you know, doing
awesome retrieving, and they'llswim too, like they don't care.
We do, uh, and a lot of thetesting we try to do at our
trials, you know, includes, youknow, some tracking and stuff
(08:59):
like that there's.
There's dogs that sell in allof them.
Um, the big thing with that isyou got to keep that terrier
interested and sometimes theyhave the attention span of a P,
yeah, and they lose interest andif something flushes out in
front of them, good luck,because they're going to run it
down just because it moved infront of them sometimes.
(09:21):
But, yeah, they have awesometracking ability.
They're super versatile andabout any and anything you put
them in.
There's even guys using them inbite sports, which you know
it's every, every breed has itshave, its place.
You know the the hog terriercan do it, but it's it's not
going to excel as much as likeyour mountain walls or your
(09:42):
german shepherds and stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, Right, Um, so you said it's the the bite
sports.
They put them in that.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, there's.
It's kind of.
It's kind of like a bad thingthat everyone's looking for that
, that small pocket dog thatthey can use in the bite sports
stuff.
But in order to get some of thelike required stuff, um, I'm
not quite sure, I'm not reallyfamiliar with it, but I know
there's guys using them.
But I know some of the bitesports events like one of them
(10:13):
is, they have to, like, take adumbbell over top of a of a
barrier some sort and okay, yeah, and it just it.
You put a, you know even a 20pound yacht and you have a five
pound dumbbell.
It ain't gonna jump overanything with it.
It's gonna try, though they'lltry anything yeah, oh yeah,
it'll try um so that's, that'sthe one thing I like about it.
(10:37):
you can't get them to.
You seem to get them to quit.
I had set out this year to kindof see if I could get a dog to
just give up, like mentally, onstuff that it can do, and I've
yet to find it Like they'll dowhatever, they'll keep going.
Um, that's the one thing I likeabout them.
To drive in them, it's justabsolutely nuts.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, I think that's the terrier breed in general.
They just don't have any backdown or or quit in them.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, that's.
Have any back down or or quitin them?
Yeah that's.
That's 100 percent the what Isee out of them too.
Like I, uh, a couple years agoI was down in georgia at a hog
bay um, and we ended up winningit, and my little female, I,
broke her leg during the run,but we went up to take our
pictures.
We had to go back by the penand as soon as we got close to
the pen she was back to fourlegs, ready to go again, and she
(11:25):
probably would have went, but Ijust couldn't.
I wasn't going to make her doit.
I got home and found out herleg was broke.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's a.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So yeah they're.
They're amazing little dogs.
That's all I can say.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I mean.
So is there two different kindsof coats on the?
Is there a flat coated one in acurly coated one, or are they
all kind of curly or?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, so what they have is they have.
So there's, there's three,three coat types Um, you'll have
like a smooth coat, which wouldbe your, you know your shorter
fine hair.
You have your broken coat,which is, um, it's long but it's
not super long, and then theyalso have a long coat.
That's, that's super long.
(12:13):
So the, the broken coat isprobably what you're going to
see most of um, and then thereis also the fine hair stuff, um,
the over smooth coat, as wecall them, and they're all
pretty much about the same.
As far as black and tan, youmay have a different mask or
like a different tan on thechest, but they're all going to
(12:35):
be black and tan.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Okay, all right.
So you're talking a lot aboutearthworks earlier.
So for those that don't knowanything about it, I mean, what
is it?
How do you start a dog in it?
And then what are the?
You know?
There's competitions, I'massuming, and all that just kind
of goes from there.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So earthworking is.
So what you'll do is it's theway we start puppies is you know
we'll be hunting, and we'lljust free cast dogs.
Puppies is you know we'll sendit, we'll be hunting with just
free cat dogs.
We'll usually walk in along umlike ditch banks or ditch banks,
brush piles, fence, roads,stuff like that, and the dog
will actually um enter theground with the quarry.
(13:18):
So they'll go in um and they'llgo to the quarry and of course
we all have tracking equipment,stuff to track the dog
underground.
So when the dog goes in andengages, you kind of let the dog
settle in and get used to.
You know, just start workingthe quarry to keep that, prevent
that quarry, whether it's goingto keep running through the
(13:39):
tunnel system or if that quarryis going to just stay there, and
just let us get to them.
And then, once the dog settlesin, we'll mark it with our
locators and then we'll just digstraight down to them.
The rule of thumb when diggingto a dog, you want to have your
hole about as big around as youcan dig in.
So if you have, you know, say,a four foot, a four foot they're
(14:01):
four foot down you'll open up ahole that's forefoot around and
you'll get straight down.
So you have plenty of room towork, to pull that dog out.
Essentially, if somethinghappens we end up getting into,
you'll be.
You can be anything from a foxso it'll be fox, skunks,
groundhogs, raccoons, possum andout west, some of the guys
(14:26):
actually dig badger with them.
So that's what they are.
When I got into the terrierbreed I was like there's no way
these dogs are going to ground.
I'm not packing a shovel, I'mnot doing all that.
Well, it all changed Now.
I keep dogs, we know we tonethem down.
(14:46):
I kind of put weight on them inthe summer, in the winter,
because we're doing a lot moreabove ground work like barns and
abandoned houses and stuff likethat or brush piles, so they've
got to have a little bit moremeat on them and weight on them
to.
You know, handle themselves.
But in the summer we cut.
I'd send the dogs down, we.
But in the summer we cut, I'dsend the dogs down.
We'd do a lot of conditioning,I'd do a lot of flat metal,
(15:09):
running with them and swimmingjust to get them toned up and
skinny so we can get into thesmaller holes in the ground and
work.
So yeah, that's the Earth game.
The Earth game is a rush.
You don't know what you'regetting to most of the time.
I mean until you get to it,because they all sound about the
same when they're underneathbrown and stuff.
Um, as far as the yeah, it's thefirst time.
(15:32):
The first time I did it, um, Iwas just walking my male dog
coma.
We were, we were just out for astroll in the spring and I had
no equipment.
I, I had my Garmin collar andthat was it.
Didn't even have a shovel in mytruck or nothing.
And then we're walking throughthe woods, walking through the
pasture, and then GD is like.
(15:53):
I see him pick his head up andjust bolt straight for a hole
and then he goes and I'm likeI'm panicking at that time.
I'm calling my breeder, I'mcalling my guy my buddies out
west, you know, done this forfor years and I panicked and he
was underground for probably twoand a half hours ish and I I
(16:16):
couldn't tell where he was at.
So I called one of my buddiesand he come out and I went home,
got a shovel and starteddigging and finally opened up
and I heard him.
I stuck my head down the holeand you could hear him coming.
So he come running through andI just caught him just barely.
He was going past people that Ihad uh pulled him out.
We didn't actually didn't get achance to get to it and uh,
(16:38):
yeah, it was.
It was definitely something,something new to me that I had
never experienced before.
Now I'm hooked on it and Iwon't go back.
And you had asked about how westart puppies, so like we'll
send them in and we'll open up aschooling hole, as we call it.
So we'll open it up and we knowthat the whole end, where he's
(17:01):
going to stay there, we'll put apitchfork in front of the game
so the dog gets the coming downat a weird angle and sees the
animal, but it can't get bit.
So I learned that from huntingwith the jackrus, because that's
how they like to go, becausethey don't like their dog to go
in and bay.
They don't like the collateraldamage, they want the dog to bay
(17:24):
so they can get to the quarry,identify it.
And then either.
The Jags are different.
They like to go in and theylike to be engaged, they like to
.
They let them fur, that's theirreward.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Okay, so the Jack Russells are more bay them as in
, like kind of hold them there,and then the Yags are like
they're going in to fight them.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We're going in to have a little fight going on,
because a lot of times when I'mstarting a Yacht Terrier I will
just show them the game and Iwon't let them have it.
And then about six months Ilike to let my puppies be a
puppy for about a year, right,and then once they hit that one
(18:09):
one year mark, it's full contactIf they want it, if they don't
want it, we'll take our time alittle bit slower with it.
But there's a lot of timeswhere I will start a dog at like
eight to 10 months with with araccoon, a small one or possum
with the soft tricks of thepossum just peels over when a
dog gets into it, but a pot buta raccoon will fight pretty good
.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, wow.
That's a, that's incredible,just the size of the dogs and,
um, you know, doing that and Icouldn't imagine.
I mean, I'm a coon, houndhunter and uh and a beagler and
um, yeah, I couldn't imagine mydogs going underground.
Like you said, it'd be kind ofnerve-wracking the first time.
So how, I mean they must bequite a scene sometimes because
(18:51):
you think I know groundhogsabove ground, they can be pretty
vicious.
I mean, those teeth have enoughpower to bite through tree
roots and everything.
What is the outcome when yougot a yog terrier dive into a
hole after it?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
so, um, actually, you know, a dog learns underground
pretty quick, or once they getchewed on.
Where the business is like my,I mean you'll deal with, you
know, face, face puncture wounds, um, you know, just puncture
wounds in general is what youdeal with, nothing really major.
The worst, the worst I've hadpersonally myself.
(19:27):
Um, this year we were datinggroundhogs over on a farm that I
have permission for and, uh, wemarked the set, we got down to
it A Jack Russell's.
I had actually found the setand we opened it up and we got a
picture.
They wanted to just identify itfor their purposes.
(19:47):
But on my permissions I have todispatch all reckons possums and
ground bugs because they causeda lot of damage to a farmer's
crops, and I sent my biggerfemale in Maud.
She went in and she was engagedwith it and she's very smart
(20:09):
when she works games.
She likes to grab, essentiallylike right by the top of the
head and just hold.
So we went in and the tails onthe terriers, they call them
handles.
You can pull them out of holesthat way.
So she had went in, she engagedwith the groundhog and she
(20:30):
usually grabs by the top of thehead and we tried to draw a
little bit and she had let go.
And she come out and I lookedat and her front, her bottom lip
, was just hanging.
So I looked at her in the holeand like I handed her out
because it's probably a six foot, five and a half six foot dig
(20:52):
and I handed her out to one ofthe girls that was with me
digging.
I said, is that her lip hanging?
And she said, oh yeah, it'shanging.
Well, just take her to thetruck and clean her up and then
we'll get this out and put mymale dog back in to work it.
And he actually drew it out andwe stuck it.
We kind of pinned it to theground.
(21:13):
We ended up dispatching it inthe hole in the ground 25 pounds
and that was the worst I had.
So I learned the one thing youlearn with terriers pretty quick
is kind of how to doctor themup or at least get them stuck
back together enough to get themto a vet.
So Sunday, that was on a Sundayand they're like well, she
(21:34):
needs to go to the emergency vetand this, this and this.
You know I'm not, I'm not brokeby any means, but all I could
think about was there goes aboutfive grand.
You know in the back of my head, yeah Easy.
You know, on a Sunday emergencycall and luckily I have a good
relationship with my vet, um andI called and whenever I have an
(21:57):
issue, you know, like on a week, and I'll call her and I'll
leave her a voicemail and sheusually gets me in right away.
But I knew in my head all I hadto do was get that lip, you
know, stuck back up so thetissue didn't start dying out or
drying out.
You know I've been thankful inthe terrier world.
I've met a lot of people thathave dealt with situations
similar, and so we got right onthe phone.
(22:20):
One of my best friends was uphere from St Louis.
Andrew is super calm, the wholething.
I'm freaking out.
Andrew's like, take a step back.
We're going to make some phonecalls, We'll figure this out.
We have enough stuff here tofix this dog.
So we kind of went through and Isaid well, because we all have
a staple gun, staples are a bigthing in the Terriers because
(22:42):
they're quick and easy and youcan fix about anything with a
staple gun.
So we came to the consensusthat we needed to stitch over
staple on the lit.
So I made a couple phone callsand I found an old guy up that
lives just on the border ofIndiana and Michigan.
He lives right on the border,so I called him.
(23:05):
And michigan, he lives right onthe border.
So I called him and he said,yeah, I got a stooge here.
So we actually drove up to himand we we put five stitches in
her bottom lip just to get itheld, you know, for the night,
and I put her in the kennel andkept her quiet.
And so monday rolls around and Iwork in the rv factory so we
usually get off work fairlyearly.
Well, it just so happened Idon't know if it was the Terrier
(23:27):
, gods, whatever, bringing goodluck down on me or whatever but
we happened to have like a minorfire at work and they wouldn't
let us go back to work.
So they sent us home at 6.30 inthe morning.
So I was like perfect, I gothome at.30 in the morning.
So I was like perfect, I gothome at like 7.30.
I hopped in my truck, drove tomy vet and I walked in.
I said I know I called you guys, she goes.
(23:49):
Yeah, we were looking at theschedule and she goes.
Well, you're here before myfirst appointment and she goes.
Well, she goes, yeah, bring herin, I'll take a look at her.
And so Monday took her into thevet and my vet goes this is
your first time ever stitching.
I said, yeah, she goes, not toobad for a first time.
(24:10):
And we both kind of chuckledbecause I made the comment well,
I'm practically a vet now andshe said, well, I said I think I
need a stitch on the inside ofthe lip and I have no way to put
her down to do that, to put herunder, to do that.
She goes, yeah, bring her backin on Tuesday and I'll put her
under and I'll clean everythingup and restitch her.
And she made a full recovery,thankfully.
(24:30):
But I've heard I've heardmultiple horror stories on of
going to ground.
I've heard, uh, fox are verynotorious for actually backing
into a tight hole and grabbingthe dog by the face and twisting
Okay.
So I heard one of the girlsthat has a Jack Russell.
Her Jack Russell actually hadevery bone broken, from its eye
(24:53):
socket down from a fox grabbingand twisting.
Jeez, or what they'll do isthey'll pull him in and try to
suffocate a dog.
It's kind of tricky but like.
If you dig with the right peopleor you learn people, it's not
as stressful as it soundsbecause they you know, they've
been a lot of the people I'vebeen digging with for 20 plus
(25:14):
years, and so you just you learnhow to.
When it was underground,listening to what's happening
underneath the ground, becauseyou can pretty much tell what's
going on.
You can hear a dog breathing,you can talk around, you can
tell whether the dog's moving,you can tell whether it's
engaged.
You know from what you'rehearing out of the hole.
So the hole whispering is alsoa big key in it, because you can
(25:38):
tell a lot what's going on inthe ground from where the dog's
acting or what noise they'remade.
Um, and that's that's.
The one thing I can't stressenough is, if you're going to
learn to do it, try to learn itthe right way.
It's hard to get in into agroup of people that will take
you hunting, but getting thatinitial time going with someone
because I'll tell you right nowI'm still alert and it's a a lot
(26:02):
of it's always a learning.
You learn something new fromevery set, which is what I found
out pretty wild, even thesepeople, the girls that have been
doing it for so long they'relike oh yeah, this is still,
this is a new one for us.
And you have, it's crazy howmuch you learn from set to set.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Oh yeah, exactly.
I mean I was going to ask doyou find this is getting more
popular, like in your area or inthe United States in general?
You getting the Yag Terriers?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
The Yag Terriers, I think, are getting more popular.
But I think a lot of them aregetting popular because
everybody thinks they want one,but once they get one they don't
realize that.
You know, everybody has thatstigma of being dog aggressive,
people aggressive.
You can't raise them in thehouse, you can't do this, you
(26:59):
can't do that.
But then somebody sees whatpeople are doing with them.
They're like, want one, butthen they get one and then they
realize it's it's a handful,like they can't handle it
because they don't give them ajob.
They expect them to.
You know, oh, I can hunt it onoccasion.
It's going to be fine.
But I know that sometimes ifthey're, if they don't get
hunted, they turn to get to meat grumpy because they're not
(27:21):
getting work.
So it's kind of it is gettingmore popular over here.
But a lot of people also want todo earthwork.
So I don't think the earthworkwill ever be as big as any of
the cocoon hunting or anythinglike that, because it's work.
Nobody wants to go out and diga hole in the weather or in the
(27:43):
middle of the winter being outdigging a dog where it's frozen.
But they're getting.
I think they're growing inpopularity Like I don't know if
I'd call it like a fad breed,but it might be like one of
those fads that may come in andkind of fade out once people
realize that, oh, this is not,this ain't for me.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not , this ain't for me, yeah, yeah,
I mean I'm guessing it's likeany working breed, they need to
be worked or they can be a bitof a terror.
The terrier can be a terror athome.
As far as like, if they areworked, you know, regularly,
three, even four times a week,are they pretty good in the
(28:25):
house.
You said yours can turn it offoff, turn off work mode and just
kind of blaze around a bit, canthey, and relax or yeah, yeah,
like I mean there's, there'stime to um.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
but I mean the story, I mean my man, when he, when
he's ready to hunt or he's tired, like he'll get an attitude,
he'll get grumpy and kind ofjust growl at you and and then
you give him, you go out and youwork him, or you go catch a
raccoon I like going, cause Iwould do a lot of uh, like field
hunting and just walk down afield or ditch and they'll just
(28:55):
get whatever they want and oncehe gets chewed on a little bit,
he's fine for a while.
I mean, I've come home and myfemale on the other side, like
she, she always wanted to begoing, she always had to go, had
to go, had to go, always moving, couldn't stop.
And I come home one day and shehad actually shewed a hole
through the sidewall of my houseand her head was stuck out the
(29:18):
siding.
It looked like one of thosecartoons and I was like, okay,
so you've been cooped up for toolong.
I guess we got to work now andI got to fix the house.
Yeah, jeez, it is possible tohave a Yogg in the house.
There's a lot of people that dohave their Yogg carriers in the
house.
A lot of people.
They're easy to live with ifthey're being worked.
(29:41):
If they're not being worked,they're not being worked.
Good luck.
I mean, it's just like anythingelse if they don't have a job,
you're gonna have your handsfull.
I like to compare them to a 12pound malinois.
That's what they are, they're.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
they're very compatible to a malinois so are,
are they pretty good aroundother dogs?
If they've been worked, I'mguessing, if they've been cooped
up for a bit of time and stuff,they could be, you know,
grumpier with other dogs.
But uh, in general are theyfairly easy to get along with um
, yes and no.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So that right there has a lot to do with you know
who they came from, breed wise,and as long as you socialize
them, they're fine.
I mean, my male dog plays witheverybody, get a little growly
here and there I've had.
I've had some, I mean, unlesssome dog fights, but they're not
(30:36):
like, they aren't just likegoing out to look for a fight.
Because that's what I wasworried about when I got my
first one is cause I got him asa problem dog.
Okay, you know, I had thestigma in the back of my head of
oh, you can't have them withanother dog, that's still
another dog, yada, yada, yada.
Well, his problem was he ate acouple of chickens and I was
(30:57):
like, well, I ain't got nochicken, so send him up here,
he'll be fine.
And I brought him home.
I had coyote hounds and hedidn't bother with them.
I've thrown them in boxes withthem, I've cut them together on
short runs and they've been fine.
So if you socialize them andyou kind of nip the dog
(31:18):
aggression in the butt at anearlier age, you won't have a
problem with it, as long as youstay on it.
If you let them get away withit.
They tend to hold grudges.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And then you just have your hands full.
Okay, yeah, that's fair enoughWith hunting them, do you?
If you're going out and you setthem loose?
I mean, is it just anybody'sguess what they're going to go
after?
It could be a coon, it could bea possum, it could be a ground
dog.
Can you kind of, when you'regoing out on a certain hunt, can
you sort of deter them fromgoing after a type of quarry, or
(31:55):
it's just, it's their world andyou're living in it when you're
off for a hunt.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's their world and you're living in it.
I mean, I try to, I try to deerbreak all my stuff, but yeah,
essentially these terriers arethese dogs, that's, that's what
they are like.
I, I don't care, I don't carewhat we're hunting or what they
end up with.
As long as they, um, as long asthey show me quarry and and fur
, I'm good with whatever theywant to run.
If we want to go run rabbitsand they want to chase rabbits
down, we'll go chase rabbits.
If they want to snatch araccoon, we'll snatch a raccoon.
(32:29):
That's mainly what we go afterthe bar mitzvah.
We try to avoid skunks, butunfortunately it does happen and
there's a whole for that withthe skunks oh yeah yeah.
so what is that?
That musk that the skunk emits,you know, with the spray will
(32:54):
actually suffocate a dog.
What it does is it gets inthere, they inhale it and it
gets into their bloodstream andit robs all their oxygen.
So, no matter what, if a doggoes to ground and we smell
skunks, no, we don't wait likewe open up, get as much air to
the dog as possible and, wherethere's, and we pull them out
(33:15):
and you take edge shave gel, theoriginal edge shave gel, put it
on them.
That covers the smell.
But if the dog starts, you know,acting like funny, looks like
it's having, can't reallybreathe and it's kind of falling
out, you you immediately wantto call your vet and you want to
tell the vet treat the dog as acat that just ate Tylenol, and
(33:38):
it's the same effect, has thesame effect on it as like a cat
that ate a bunch of Tylenol, andyou can save a dog pretty quick
that way.
So, like I have a, I have astunk kit in my truck that has,
you know, gloves, rags, shavegel, and it's got a laminated
paper in there of exactly whatto tell your vet in that
(34:03):
situation, like word for wordwhat they say, and it's actually
wrote out by a vet that workscarriers.
I believe he's in New Jersey.
I want to say he's in New Yorkand New Jersey but he actually
wrote that out to give tosomeone you know, just so you
can read that up and have thatas a resource that you're paying
(34:25):
attention to get the dogessentially taken care of and
fixed.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay, wow, that's, wow, that's handy.
So what were you saying?
The shave gel does again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
The edge shave gel, it'll cut down the scent and
then you can just put it on themand it'll at least make it
manageable.
It's not going to 100% take it,because you're still going to
have that skunk smell, but ifyou get it on right away, as
soon as it happens, it cuts thatscent down tremendously.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Okay, that's good to know, Really good to know.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
And that works on every dog.
And then there's, like hydrogenperoxide that you can do
afterwards.
But, like I said, I've beenback on wood.
I've been fortunate to not haveto deal with a skunk yet, but
I'm sure it's coming.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Do you guys have porcupines down there or no?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We don't have porcupines.
That's lucky, Because I know mybiggest fear.
When I was running on Kyle theyused to go up into Michigan,
the north of Michigan, and runand they said, oh yeah, we got a
porky, Find him.
They're like great, I'm runninga trashy, not real trashy, a
trashy paddock.
(35:45):
He trashes on 10.
So he's going to think that's awreck.
All I can think about is thatthey're pulling quills for an
hour and a half or whatever.
I'm in that region where Idon't have it, but I've heard
horror stories of dogs going toground with them and then them
having to pull a dog out andthen pull quills for hours on
(36:06):
end.
And of course, everything's inthe face because the holes they
don't go anywhere else butstraight to the face because
that holds.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
you know they don't go anywhere else, but straight
to the face.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm thankfulfor not having to deal with them
.
Yeah, yeah, that's really lucky.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I know I've heard guys say I have a buddy that I
had a lot of experience with andhe's like they're not as bad as
what people think they are.
But you know, for me you me nothaving to deal with them, I
think that just sounds like theworst possible case scenario is
having to pull clothes for hours.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, it's not fun in trying to hold the dog well
enough so you can get the pliersin there and the dog's biting
at you and everything, becauseobviously it's incredibly
painful and, yeah, that's not agood time.
So you guys are lucky for nothaving to deal with that, and I
imagine the way that thoseTerriers are is.
You know, they just go fulltilt at them and it'd be a mess.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, and the way I see it going is I see them, you
know, fill in the quills, like,hit them, and then they're like
like oh, game on now.
Now we're ready to party, we'regoing to hit it harder now and
they're just going to go back inand just keep repeatedly
getting it.
Because that's that seems to belike my male dog.
I like to compare him to a cat,because he's one of those like,
(37:25):
if we catch a tune above groundor even underground, he likes
to get a couple times okay, I'mseeing red, now it's over.
He goes in and eventually getsa good hold on it and dispatches
the raccoon.
But there's just no reason thathe'll go in and he'll get bit a
little bit.
He'll get bit a little more andthen it's like okay, I've had
enough, now I'm done.
(37:46):
So I just feel like they'rejust going to go in there and
take as many quills as theypossibly can before they realize
that, oh, this is bad yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, no, it's definitely lucky that you don't
have that.
Yeah, I mean, thanks so much,nick, for coming on and giving
us a bit of an insight into thisunique world of these amazing
dogs.
I mean, like you were sayingearlier, if these things were
100 pounds, they soundabsolutely terrifying.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
There's nothing like that.
I've heard stories of guys bearhunters using them to go in and
they'll, essentially, once thebear's on the ground and they
want to get the hounds off,they'll send a little terrier in
to pester them.
And those young terriers theydon't.
A little terrier in to pesterthem, those young terriers, they
don't care, they'll distractthat bear so they can pull the
dogs off and then they'll callthe terrier off.
(38:38):
And the terriers, they're cool.
Like I said, they're a fun breedto do and, like I said, I
encourage anybody that'sinterested in them.
They can reach out to me onFacebook and I'll sell them in
on stuff and I do.
The one thing I did like to Iwould like to add is if you're
looking to get into a terrier,try to get to one of the AWTA
(39:03):
trials.
Put your hands on these dogsbefore you get one and watch
them work.
Talk to the breeders that arethere, the guys that are in the
club.
I learned so much more thanwhat you can via Facebook or
even on Google, because you'regoing to get a thousand
different answers and this, thisand this.
But if you can get to a trialand put hands on one and talk to
(39:26):
them a lot of that will helpyou guys get started.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean that's really goodadvice because I find that, yeah
, I think maybe enough peopledon't do that when they are
looking for a working dog,whether it be a terrier or a
hound or even some of the birddogs or whatever it may be is
that, yeah, they watch a lot ofYouTube videos that make it look
great and read about it, but Imean, you can't beat hands-on
(39:51):
being there with the dog andtalking to experienced people
about it and seeing you know, isthis the right breed for me?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
That's what I see happening.
That's what I see happeningwith a lot of this.
People don't do their homeworkand they're like, oh, I love the
idea I have one, and then theyget one and it's just like, oh
wow, I got my hands full, Ican't take it, and that's why
they end up at the shelter.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really good.
So what was the organization?
You said again, what was the A?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's A-H-T-A, the American Hunt Terrier
Association.
Okay, that association.
Okay, um, that's the, that isthe, the american jag carrier
club.
Um, there's, we have, uh, fourtrials a year, um, the quote,
one in michigan, we have one inkentucky, one in texas and one
(40:46):
in south dakota, and the, theclub's small and like, when we
get together at these trialsit's everyone's welcome and like
.
What I try to do is I'm big ongetting the youth involved, or
getting people that can't can'tget a dog to do to, you know,
get their feet wet, they canhandle it.
There was a gentleman thatshowed up to our Kentucky trial
(41:11):
and the dad came in Friday andit was like, hey, my son's
really interested in dogs buthe's in a wheelchair.
Can he get to these, theseevents and stuff?
Everything was pretty close tohere.
The only one we have to gosomewhere to is for the water
rate.
And so Saturday morning I sawhim pull up and I was like,
(41:33):
because I take, I pack four tofive Terriers every trial, so
you know, I have countlessribbons, countless awards.
He came in and I walked overand I was like, hey, are you
going to be around all day?
He said yeah.
I said I just got too many dogs.
Do you want to handle one forme?
He goes, oh, goes, oh.
Absolutely I'd love that.
So I gave him my male dog andhe took him through all the
(41:56):
trials and all the competitionsand stuff and placed pretty well
with him.
That's the one thing.
They raffle off puppies at thesetrials.
I think I've won.
I've won two and none of themhave made them back to my house.
I give them to you.
One of my good friends insouthern Indiana, his boy.
(42:19):
We were down in Texas and I wonthe puppy and I walked over to
his boy and said well, go pickyour puppy.
I ain't taking it home, I justtry to get everybody involved.
It's a fun organization to beinvolved with and we're big on
pushing the youth try to geteverybody involved.
So it's like it's a good.
It's a fun organization to beinvolved with and we're big on,
you know, pushing the youth andgetting the youth involved.
There's not a lot of peoplethat want to get interested into
it anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, that's really great to hear, nick.
It's just, you know, getting,like you say, getting youth
involved and giving people apositive experience with it and
with any kind of hunting dogs is, you know, the more people we
can get on our side, the more ofa voice we have and a vote, and
, you know, just to be able totry to keep this going, this
(43:01):
tradition, this, uh, you know,hobby sport, whatever you want
to call it, passion yeah, that's, that's the the one thing you
know.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
I went, I've done a lot of travel and I mean I've
been, I've traveled all over thecountry with these dogs and
I've gone to, you know,different events.
I've gone to the jrtca events,which is the jack russell of
america, america events, and youknow like our trials are are
fairly, you know, there's ayounger crowd.
I mean it's getting older, butthe Jack Russell Club is a lot
(43:34):
of older folks and we notice, assome of them are getting, you
know, up in age and they're notpassing on that tradition or
passing on that knowledge ofdigging you know the dogs or
doing the earthwork to help thepeople out the right way to get
started.
And that's why I was like youknow I'm not going to be, I'm
going to learn the people outthe right way to get started and
that's why I was like you knowI'm not gonna be, I'm gonna
learn the best I can and I'mgonna try to, you know, pass it
(43:56):
on to people and have theopportunity that are interested
but don't know how to getstarted, and that's kind of my.
My goal I set out to do withthese little terriers is I just
want to, I want to learn and Iwant to help keep it alive
because it is a fun activity.
I know that digging doesn'tsound fun, but it's a fun
(44:18):
activity.
The one thing I've noticedsince I've had the terriers is
sometimes, when you're coonhunting or you're beagle hunting
, you have a hard time gettingaccess to ground.
It seems if you tell a farmer,no matter what they are, if you
tell them here, I just want tocome out, I don't want to kill
varmints on your farm, I want todo your groundhogs, your
(44:41):
raccoons, your possums.
If I dig, I'll fill my holesback in, plus another one.
That's what I always tell myfarmers.
If I dig a hole, I like to tryto fill up holes and make it
look like I wasn't there.
And that's the one thing I'venoticed about the tears is it's
super easy to gain access toproperty that way.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, just a pile of hunting opportunity.
And you know that's great toois putting it back the way you
found it Well, even better thanhow you found it, and that's
what keeps, you know, the nextperson that comes along be able
to do it, and so on and so forth, and just there's lots of
people that are getting intothis, lots of area to do it and,
you know, possibly help growthe sport even more.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, that's the one thing with the earthworking's
it's kind of a dying way overhere, but you know, over Europe
it's huge, like that's all theydo.
Um, one of my friends that I'vemet through the carriers that
actually sold me all of my, my,my digging equipment, my
tracking collars and stuff.
He's originally from Irelandand they dig badger box all the
(45:49):
time and it's just, it's acommon practice over there.
Over here it's a bit of a tabooor like kind of a of a gray
area.
I want to say, um, becauseyou're not, you don't, you don't
want to, you don't want to getyourself into an issue with,
like you know, the game wardens,obviously, but if you're
digging varmint they don't havea problem with it.
(46:11):
It seems to me it's like theykind of look at you like you're
crazy.
They're like, okay, well, havefun, and they, they just cut
their nose and go the other way.
Yeah, but it's, it's definitely, it's definitely a fun thing to
get into it and it seems likeyour season never ends, like you
could dig all year round.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
You could do tail all year round and they're super
portable and very affordable tofeed yeah, I mean just looking
at your facebook, I love seeinguh the pictures and all that and
with all the yeah, there's adifferent quarry in a lot of
your pictures throughout theyear I've noticed and, like you
said, it just doesn't seem toend.
So it's great it just, uh,gives you more time outside with
(46:50):
your working dog and be able towork it.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, it's definitely fun.
I encourage anybody who'ssomewhat interested in you know
the terrier stuff or even have aJack Russell, your little house
Jack Russell might surprise youwhen you give it the
opportunity to get that thingout and let it run a little bit
and stretch it.
You might end up with a with abang up earth dog that that was
(47:16):
working.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, I think this is good andthis you coming on this podcast
as well probably help, uh, youknow, to reach more people that
are kind of maybe contemplatedit before and the thought
crossed their mind.
Now they hopefully they'llcheck out, uh, you know, some of
these organizations you'retalking about and maybe go in
person and possibly findthemselves a dog at the end of
(47:38):
the day.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, um, there's the .
There's two main organizations.
You have the, the HTA, which isthe Jack Terrier Club um for
America, and you have what'sknown as the AWTA, which is the
American Working TerrierAssociation, and that covers all
(48:00):
working terrier breeds.
So you're looking at your DashHounds, your Patterdales, your
Jags, your Jack Russells,there's even some Border
Terriers in there, so it justcovers all your, all your
working breeds, and that's agood organization also to get
involved with.
And they have, um, what theycall den piles.
So that would be an artificialtunnel setup, um, where they
(48:23):
have corn at the end, which isusually rats, and it has to go
through this.
There's an elevation change.
Some of the tunnels are evenburied underground, so it's very
real and it's just the fastesttime to the quarry at the end.
And it's kind of fun to watchand it's amazing watching a dog
(48:45):
go to ground and just work, evenin the tunnels.
It's fun to watch because youknow you'll put up really fast
times but the dog has to sortthrough.
There may be an object in therethat they have to know which
way is the dead end, there's afalse out, and then obviously
you have the inquiry and it'sfun.
I haven't been to an AWTA trialpersonally, but our AHA trials
(49:08):
are very similar to what they dowith their AWT trials.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Okay, yeah, it sounds interesting, I know yeah it'd
be cool to see I mean comparedjust coming from the Coon Hill
and we're on the Beagles andthen just taking the chase
underground.
Yeah, I think it would be coolto watch.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Definitely a sight to see.
It's a new experience, likebecause I, you know, I have
buddies that are big into thecompetition, tune hounds and you
know they, they say, oh, wewalked you know 10 miles tonight
.
But above and I say, well,let's, let's go, but that
doesn't sound like fun at all.
I'm like you just told me youwalked 10 miles last night, yeah
(49:53):
, to look at a raccoon, and thatdoesn't even sound fun.
But it's a lot of fun, you know, if you get a good group of
people around that you can learnfrom and have experience.
It takes the stress away, itgets that dog entering the
ground and, you know,essentially being gone.
Because that's the one thing Icouldn't get over, because I
(50:14):
didn't have the proper equipment, which is the Bellman Flint
earth collars.
I had to.
I always thought when the doggot out of sight, you struck a
shovel and you ducked, youessentially burrowed in behind
him.
Well, that bit me in the buttbecause my male dog was like, oh
(50:34):
, I hear a shovel coming, I'mright.
So he likes to stay underground, no matter what, whether
there's Corey in it or not, andit's frustrating.
But and it's not like I'm goingto get rid of him for it
because every dog that I havehas a specific job, from my
terriers to my lurcher.
So my lurcher, she's asighthound that's above ground
(50:58):
to watch for a game that'sbolting and if it's in to draw
so I'll use him male dog back inand he'll know where to engage,
so I can stick around him whereI can get my lurcher in to draw
the quarry out, right, yeah, soevery dog I own has a job, from
(51:20):
my little female to my bigfemale and everybody in between.
They have we call it tools inthe toolbox and they all have
different jobs.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yeah, the lurcher.
That's interesting.
It's a unique addition to.
I mean I suppose it would gohand in hand if the thing
something just flies up out ofthe hole while you know the
terrier's in there.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, so what my lurcher is?
She's greyhound, whip it and asplash of pit bull in her.
So she's very leggy, verymuscle and fast.
And when I got her she was shecome from, she's originally from
Oregon and she was used onNutrius.
I guess with Nutrius they bolta lot and like my experience
(52:05):
like I've never had game bolt,but when game bolt it's just
chaos.
The first time I had bolted gameI was hunting and my female, my
little Yacht Terrier, went inand so I go, she's in the set.
So we walked down there andthere's a guy standing in front
of the hole.
(52:25):
There's a guy standing in frontof the hole and this raccoon
just comes bailing out and likegrabs onto his leg and then
bails off and takes off goingdown the creek.
And then another one comes up,goes the opposite way and my
buddy Andrew was with me in thetruck and he comes bailing out
of the truck and like leaps intothe creek and takes off on the
one on foot and trying to getthe other lurcher on it.
(52:47):
And I'm like, oh wait, my dog'sstill in there.
So I go down to stick my headin the hole.
Number three bails out and I'mlike, oh, and then here comes my
female and she's like what justhappened?
And it was, and I, and afterand since I've gotten my lurcher
(53:09):
, like I don't know how I did itwithout one.
You know, just if one bolts,you know that terrier doesn't
get out of the ground fastenough and the lurchers, they're
very good about the way on topof the hole and they'll just be
like taking a nap and lazy orthey'll hear something and then
they'll go.
As soon as it bolts, they goout and grab it.
Um, and I've had.
I've had where I was digging inthe middle of a hayfield for a
groundhog and my female had wentin and I was digging by myself,
(53:33):
which I don't, I don't reallylike to do, just because it's
kind of stressful, because youdon't have someone there to run
and get tools that can eithergive you a hand if you get into
a situation.
Yeah, um, but we're sitting outand my little female, athena,
went in and she engaged with thegroundhog and she pushed it
towards the exit and my lurcherwas laying there.
(53:56):
She heard it coming closer andcloser.
She just did her stick.
So it's funny because, you know,underneath the ground, athena's
like oh, it's getting away fromme and tagged my lurchers up
top thinking the same thing.
And when my little femaleunderneath let go and she tagged
, you know, took out thegroundhog and dispatched it, I
(54:19):
looked back in the hole andathena's like looking up at me
like what just happened?
Where did it go?
And she backed back in thinkingit went around her.
So I mean, I mean, adding alurcher to the earth game is
just it's fun when they bothclick and work together.
When we free cast you know findsets, you'll see my lurcher
with her head buried up to hershoulders checking holes for the
(54:42):
dogs.
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
That's pretty cool, yeah, yeah, awesome.
That's pretty cool, yeah, yeah,just having two breeds, two
dogs, but breeds that are sodifferent, uh, than working
together, you know, for man, youknow great, great example of
man's best friend.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
I guess you could say and when they click it's, it's
just it's.
It's funny to watch them clickand work together.
You know you have, you have adog that's.
You know my terriers are, youknow, between 12 and 18 pounds
and my lurcher she's about 65pounds.
You know she's big and leggy,so she fills my big dog but she
(55:20):
pairs phenomenally with mylittle dogs, which I was worried
when I got her because I wasn'tsure how it was with them,
because I've heard stories ofthe lurchers being hard on tears
if they're above ground theykind of focus in on them as game
.
But Tag has just filled all thevoids that I was missing in my
(55:41):
pack.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, that's great how she was just able to click
into like sit to your pack andwork out.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Yeah, and I've learned from her.
She's taught me things Like thefirst night I brought her home.
I drove to Wisconsin to get herbecause the guy had moved back
and I got home and we'd been onthe road for, you know, about
six hours and I got home and Iflipped her loose.
I just opened the car door, notthinking, and I didn't have a
(56:09):
tracker or anything.
She took off and I'm like, ohno, she's gone.
She took two laps around thehouse and came right back to the
car.
Ever since then she's beeninseparable, because I know any
other time that dog would havebeen gone.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Oh yeah, you hear about that.
No, that's really great thatthe mixture of breeds that she
is it's.
It's made in being in anunfamiliar place that she did
come right back yeah, and she's.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
She's one of those that I've I've learned, you know
, like the guy said, she goes oh, I don't know how she's gonna
be around kids, this, this andthis, but like she loves the
kids, she sleeps in my bed everynight.
I don't kennel her during theday, honestly.
I think she sleeps about 23hours a day, but when it's time
(56:55):
to work she'll work all day.
We've caught, I've checked herout behind the house and I've
sent her on groundhogs that were550 yards out in the field and
she's caught them before they'vegotten too old.
It's fun watching thesighthound work because they
just they get this, they get.
They just lock in and andthey're just gone.
(57:16):
They're just fastest thing,best thing I've ever seen work.
But if they get up to somethingand it doesn't fight back or
just move.
So I just whined.
I was I was deer hunting behindmy house and I'd watch the
possum come out in the field andI was like I'm deer hunting,
I'm not going to go in and gettagged.
And then I sat there foranother 10 minutes in the ground
(57:36):
and the possum's out there justantagonizing me.
I'm like all right, I guess Ilet my intrusive thoughts get
the best of me and I walked backto my house and I grabbed tag
and snuck out to the field and Isent it on the possum and she
saw it move.
I tried to make a break for thewoods and didn't make it.
But of course that possum sawthis big black dog come flying
(58:01):
at it and it balled up and juststopped moving and she was like
sitting there, whining at it,couldn't figure out what was
going on.
She's like sitting therewhining at it, couldn't figure
out what was going on.
She's like what are you doing?
And she was whining and finallyI talked her to biting and she
went and bought.
She went and bit on it and thentook it into the field and
tried to hide it from me.
But yeah, it's, it's funny with,like the sight hounds.
They're super soft-handed andyou can't really handle them
(58:24):
super hard.
Where it tears the completeopposite.
The terror sometimes needs tobe corrected fairly hard before
it it realizes that it's donewrong and it's.
I kind of have to adjust when II'm training her or working
with her, which is which is kindof hard.
So I'm used to my myknucklehead tears that you shock
them with the garment it's gottheir neck, shake it off and
(58:47):
then run away from here.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah, the Garmin they scratch their neck, shake it
off and then run away from you.
Yeah, I know, my mom's JackRussell is definitely stubborn.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
That's the one thing.
They're super stubborn andthey're kind of fun and they'll
do whatever you ask them to do.
That's the one thing I'velearned with mine.
I've actually made a job withthem.
Out of them, you know, we gointo um warehouses and find
detect mice with them and we'llfind rodents with them.
(59:16):
It's it's, it's wild that youcan get a dog to tone itself
down that much to work.
Yeah, and it's, it's a blast.
Yeah, yeah, because I got them.
I got them mainly, got themmainly for my nuisance wildlife
business to get in tight spotsthat I can get into.
So they're very versatile dogsfor about anything.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, well, they'd be a huge asset to a business like
that, for sure, dealing with,yeah, nuisance wildlife.
But yeah, no, like I said, nickthanks so much for telling us
about this breed and I know alot more about it than I did
going into this podcast.
I really I just knew that theywere a very high, strong, tough,
(01:00:02):
strong-willed dog and justlearning about the earthworks
and all that that was reallyinteresting.
So I said thanks for, uh, yeah,for opening up this world to us
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like I said, if anybody'sinterested they can feel free to
like me up on social media.
I try to get back to peoplepretty quick.
Um, and, like I said, if theywant to reach out, if they
interested in any of these clubtrials or anything going on, I'm
sure I can get them the datesfor them and, like I said,
they're more than welcome toshow up.
It's a good family event.
(01:00:34):
You know we have we do, we dogo to ground, we do confirmation
, we do tracking, we do treeing,we do a water race and then we
do kind of an exhibition highjump and these little dogs are
jumping anywhere between.
Some of these dogs are jumpingeight feet high up a wall.
So it's pretty, so it's prettyinteresting and you know we do
raffles and we try to welcomeeverybody into the, into the
(01:00:57):
club.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, oh, like I said , uh, thanks, and I'm sure we'll
have you on again because, uh,there's some more good stories
there.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Oh yeah, Like I said, I'm in deep into the Terrier
world and I think it's the nichethat I'm going to stick with.
I just have too much fun and Ienjoy everything I do with them.
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