December 24, 2024 • 49 mins
Ever wondered how a latecomer to hunting can transform a sport into a lifelong passion? Meet Matthew from Northern Ontario, who transitioned from soccer and whitewater kayaking to becoming an avid big game hunter. His journey led him from a small-town upbringing to thrilling elk camps in Alberta with his uncle and friends. This episode uncovers the challenges and triumphs within Alberta's elk draw system, offering listeners a glimpse into how hunting became the heartbeat of Matthew's vacations and life choices, evolving into a year-round devotion.
Brace yourself for tales of adrenaline-pumping moments and close encounters in the wilds of Alberta and Nunavut. From tracing cougar tracks to startling run-ins with skunks, each story captures the unpredictability and excitement of the great outdoors. Matthew also takes us on a vivid journey to Nunavut, where the isolated beauty of Iqaluit serves as a backdrop for hunting adventures. With anecdotes that paint a picture of unexpected encounters with wildlife, listeners will be transported to the untamed landscapes that define these once-in-a-lifetime experiences.
Venturing even further into the Arctic, Matthew shares his unforgettable experiences hunting alongside Inuit hunters, navigating treacherous terrains and embracing traditional practices. Discover the delicate balance of preserving wildlife while participating in age-old hunting traditions, as Matthew reflects on the joy of documenting these cherished memories. Through vivid storytelling, this episode captures not just the thrill of the hunt, but the enduring value of preserving these stories for generations to come. Join us as we embark on this captivating exploration of hunting across Canada's diverse landscapes.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken meyer.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how to's.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast, allrighty.
Welcome to hunts on outfittingpodcast.
We're happy to have you tuningin and listening.
(00:32):
If you could share us out andleave us a review, that'd be
great from all of you all right?
So this week on the podcast,what do elk camps in alberta and
caribou up in Nunavut have incommon?
Not too much other than thefact that our guest today has
been to both places and huntedboth animals, and we're excited
to hear all about it.
(00:52):
So let's get to it.
Yeah, I mean so.
Thanks so much for taking mycall, matthew, and so you're
living in Ontario right now, butyou've bounced around a few
different places, have you?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, that's correct.
I'm a resident of NorthernOntario, now near Thunder Bay,
but I've carried driver'slicenses in three, four
provinces in one territory.
So it's been a fair bit ofmoving around, both for well,
some for work, but also justsort of you know, trying to find
(01:26):
my way and what I was going todo in some of my earlier years.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, absolutely Just going.
You know you had time to dothat then and do some adventures
and scout around a little, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So I mean you were saying you emailed me, me you're
gonna get your start you saidaround 26 in big game hunting.
So I mean a bit later.
Uh, you know, I guess kind ofsome people start quite young,
but you, uh, you've definitelymade up for for that starting a
bit later.
You've been on, uh, quite a fewadventures yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Uh, I did start, maybe later than some people do.
I have some hunting in thefamily, but not a lot of serious
hunting, and maybe my focuswhen I was younger was more on
sports and adventure, recreationand that kind of thing, and so
(02:22):
it wasn't until I kind of gotover some of those things,
wasn't playing soccer anymore,wasn't doing any whitewater
kayaking, and was able to comeback and then spend some time
with my family, with my father,and start into big game hunting
and start into big game hunting,which then kind of took off as
(02:48):
my primary directed recreation,as opposed to, as I said, as
opposed to taking whitewaterkayaking trips.
Now I took some hunting tripsas I developed after a few years
in but yeah, starting in 26,some people grow up in a hunting
(03:10):
lifestyle, whether they haveproperty on a farm or something
like that, and that wasn't me.
I grew up in a small town andspent more time on the soccer
football field than out in thewoods.
Yeah, I mean, both activitiescan be quite time the soccer
football field than out in thewoods.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, I mean both activities can be quite
time-consuming, whether it'ssports or hunting.
I mean you have your weekendwarriors, but hunting is one of
those things I find that it'shard just to dip your toes in.
Like if you're going to getcommitted to it, you try to put
in a lot of time, and if youdon't have that time, a lot of
people just kind kind of iteither doesn't come up or it
(03:47):
just kind of phases out of theirlife a little bit sure it can
be lots of things right.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It can be, uh, one week a year for people going to
deer camp or going to moose camp, or it could be um something
that if they have time or ifthey get an invite they come out
and do a duck or goose hunt orsomething like that.
Or for others, it can besomething that they think about
(04:13):
and they plan for and they booktheir vacations around and sort
of work through it all year,whether that's scouting or
whether that's different huntingseasons or that kind of thing
year, whether that's scouting orwhether that's different
hunting seasons or that kind ofthing.
So yeah, it's uh.
It developed more uh of ayear-round thing for me, um,
after you know, after a few uhand um learning to really enjoy
(04:38):
it and learning about otheropportunities than uh than just
uh go to deer camp with my, myfather right.
And then, uh, in the email you'dsent me to talk about some of
your hunting experiences and allthat you're saying, speaking
about deer camp, is you guyskind of formed like an elk camp,
uh, tradition yes, I uh, I my,my dad is a twin and, uh, his
(05:02):
brother lives out in Alberta,and so I flip-flopped between
Ontario and Alberta through someof those years trying to figure
out what I was going to do inlife and was able to get invited
out with my uncle and he waspart of a group of friends that
(05:24):
had property and had a cabin,specifically sort of in the
mountains right on the edge forelk hunting really, but also a
retreat for snowmobiling andthat kind of thing.
But yeah, I stumbled into thatand when I got in there and got
(05:45):
an invite to come back andrealize how special it was, it
was something that I sort ofcommitted to, despite leaving
Alberta, despite moving away,would stay in the draw and in
fact travel and fly out.
It'd be hard to say, I don'tknow whether it was eight or
(06:06):
nine years, perhaps I huntedthere all in a row oh, wow,
that's.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Uh.
Yeah, that's fortunate.
So I was going to ask that withalberta.
Uh, it is a draw.
It's not an over counter tagfor residents, is it?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
even residents have to apply well, it all depends on
which zone, zone and the animaland such.
The zone that I was elk huntingin was an over-the-counter bull
tag, a three-point or better,but the draw system was for a
cow.
We often hunted late in theseason, having actually
(06:42):
migrating animals coming up fromuh the states and would would
be herds uh of elk, but duringthat time the bulls were not
with the cows, normally it wasafter the rut in the breeding
season and so they'd gone offand uh um.
So it was quite valuable to tryand get a cow tag and and have
(07:03):
opportunity.
It took a number of yearsbefore I was able to take my
first elk, but certainly myfirst bull.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, so migrating up from the States, so are they
coming in from Montana?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I think so.
There's sort of a circlemigration, yeah, circling back
up through southwestern Albertacorner of BC and then up into
the Porcupine Hills north ofPinter Creek area.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay, yeah, that's neat.
You were saying two, threepoints or better.
Is that common for most areasthere that they have to have a
certain amount of points to beable to be harvested?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think it's often three or three or six uh, some
some zones are, are more, and Ithink you don't often see, I
don't think of like a four point, but I think it's normally um
sort of a three, which would bea um two-and-a-half-year-old
animal normally, or, say, asix-point, which would probably
be maybe a five-year-old animalor better.
Okay, so the zones would oftenhave the point count that you'd
(08:20):
have to meet to be a legalanimal.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Why do you think they do that?
Because I, because they don'tdo that with deer there.
Do they Whitetail or mule deer?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
No, I've heard of mule deer having a point system,
maybe in jurisdictions down inthe states, but it is obviously
similar to a flock system infishing.
You want to keep an age class,you want to allow some of the
young ones to come through, sortof that.
(08:55):
Let the small animals matureand or just limit the success
rate so often, as I said, thoseherds might come through, there
might be, let's say there mightmight come through, there might
be, let's say there might be 30,there might be 50 cows, there
might be half a dozen spikebulls in there, but they'd be
like year and a half old bullsand, uh, some likely less than
(09:19):
three points, and so then youunable to harvest.
So you know, if I could shoot aspike bull I probably would
have shot a spike bull almostevery year.
But having to get three pointsor better limits the success
rate a little bit.
Wildlife management isdifferent and all over in
different jurisdictions, butthat's sort of my opinion and my
(09:43):
thought process for the pointsystem Makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I was just curious.
But yeah, no, that makes sense.
So was it a fairly challenginghunt?
I mean, you guys are in youknow kind of the mountains.
Are you bugling and going everyday?
Are the elk quite responsive?
Are you guys hunting themduring the rut?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
No, this was always late season and, like late
November, Certainly often verycold, Sometimes lots of snow,
Sometimes not.
But I definitely say in themountains, Not full on like
(10:24):
Rocky Mountains where there'stowering peaks above you, but uh
, um, when you got to the top,like you're sort of right near
the tree line, uh, um, can beleft out and that kind of thing.
So it was uh, right right onthe border with BC, very close,
and, yeah, definitely achallenging hunt.
(10:45):
If you're trying to hike hillsin minus 20, you're going to be
sweating going up but it doesn'ttake you very long to get
chilled quite quickly.
And the interesting thing aboutthat which was you know from the
Ontario boy, originally weweren't the only hunters out
(11:05):
there you would see wolf tracks,you would see cougar tracks and
we would see grizzly bears.
Maybe every other year youcould see grizzly bears or
tracks and yeah, it's prettystrange to see minus 20 and two
(11:28):
feet of snow and a big boar of agrizzly come cruising over the
hill.
But that's a littleintimidating as seeing cougar
tracks in a thick forest area,whatever, and the hair starts
standing up on the back of yourneck.
So it was certainly anadventure and exciting to be in
(11:51):
an environment there where itwas wild space, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, yeah, lots of teeth out there.
I've talked to other guys fromAlberta and they've had like one
of those hair-raising momentswhere they realized they've been
being stalked by by a cat, bymountain lion.
Had you ever experiencedanything like that, or not, that
you know of?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Uh, not that I not that I felt that I was being
stalked or uh, you know turnedaround and never saw one.
You certainly have thosefighting sense moments where
things are a little uh iffy,have those 50 cents moments
where things are a little uhiffy.
(12:30):
I had one day where we'd hikedup, had a big day, came back to
the cabin and it was, uh, atleast, um, a pasture land where
the cabin is and, and the nightbefore we've seen some animals
come out of the far end of thefield, sort of across the valley
.
I was like I had to walk overthere, take a look at the tracks
(12:51):
, you know, maybe I'll learnsomething.
And uh, as I was walkingthrough the grasses, I came
across a gunk which I wasn'treally expecting.
Uh, so I kind of gave that awide berth, you know, obviously
you don't want to run into askunk, yeah.
And then I got to the far endwhere we'd seen these animals
(13:11):
come over, uh, the fence, and itwas just covered in cougar
traps and I was like, whoa, likethese are fresh.
They were not here last night,uh, when the they're on top of
the elk tracks were not herelast night.
They're on top of the elktracks that were there last
night, I was like, okay, that'senough for me.
(13:32):
It's been a long day, I'm goingback to the cabin and so I've
already kind of got pumped up.
I almost walked into a skunk.
Now I'm at the far end of thefield and there's cougar tracks
all over the place and it's likeI am ready to sit down, have a
beer and just relax.
So I look back and I'm like,yeah, I don't want to walk back
(13:54):
across the field because therewas a skunk out there and I
don't know where it is now.
But my other option is to sortof follow the tree line and who
knows where this cougar islaying on the tree line.
But I'm like that's going to bethe safer option.
I really don't want to run intoa skunk and get sprayed out
here.
So I'm following the tree lineand I'm sure pretty much
(14:18):
everybody has had thisexperience.
I had a rough grouse blow outright under my foot.
Oh, I had the safety halfway upand I jumped and I was sweating
.
It was like it just, you know,you just got wound up enough.
(14:41):
You got that like tension buildup and sort of that little bit
of fear, and then that spook ohboy, was it heart pounding.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, well, I've had some good scares from them here
and I'm not worried about, youknow, a cougar coming at me, so
exactly yeah, they just tend tofind their way right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, just sit so tight until you almost step on
them.
I mean, at least you had yoursafety part way off, like you
were ready for a battle yeah,I'm certainly glad it was just a
grouse, but he could have leftme alone that day and I would
have probably saved a few yearsoff by the end of my life.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, noah, I mean it sounds really
interesting hunting there in thewild Well, I mean, it was in
the wild but up in the mountainsfor the elk when you're
competing with so many otherpredators, I guess that are
coming at them.
I've heard this I don't know ifyou've noticed it where the elk
in some areas have even gonequieter because the wolves have
(15:50):
kind of changed their behavior,where if they're bugling and
stuff going on more, the wolvesare able to pattern them and
track them down quicker.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I've heard sort of similar things, sometimes more
related to hunters being toovocal, and so I'll kind of move
away from the noise and turnquiet.
But not having hunted them inSeptember, in that rut period
when they're really respondingand really talking, I didn't
(16:24):
notice much of that.
You get into the herds and youcan hear those cows chirp, which
is quite neat.
There is a lot of chatter, butI never bugled and never heard a
bugle from a bull During thoseexperiences late November it's
just past that time of themtalking?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I got in contact with youthrough a mutual friend, chris.
He was like are you looking fora guy with more hunting stories
?
I'm like looking for anybodywith hunting stories.
So he told me about you and wetalked and you you definitely.
You know you've been quite afew places on some pretty
interesting hunts.
But one of them that you'dmentioned to me is quite
(17:06):
interested in is you've huntedin Nunavut and I I don't know
anything about that, what you'rehunting there, how you're
hunting them, what the weather'slike.
So I'm curious if you couldjust kind of walk us through a
little bit of your huntingadventures there.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Sure.
So I lived in Iqaluit on BaffinIsland in, yes, the territory
of Nunavut, and I spent aboutthree years there.
I was there for work and it'san interesting place.
I was there for work and it'san interesting place.
Calvert's quite a large city bystandards.
(17:46):
There was about 12,000 peoplethere at the time.
It's a full city Grocery stores, mall, recreation center, movie
theater, a couple bars.
Da is that.
However, it's so isolated likeyou can't go anywhere.
You can't drive out of town.
(18:07):
You can take a vehicle to theedge of town and then the road
just stops and that's it, and itis the capital of Nunavut and
the service center to virtuallyall of the Eastern Arctic.
Most of the other communitiesfrom there that you would fly to
are quite small, a couplethousand people or so.
(18:27):
So going up there, I kind ofknew enough to be like, wow, I
need a vehicle of transportation, of sorts, and so I got myself
a snowmobile.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense for up there, for
obvious reasons it wasintimidating.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
The Arctic is a really neat place, but it's
super remote and different to alot of countries that I've
traveled before, and so it tookme a long time to sort of build
that confidence, not only withthe machine but also like how
far I could travel with themachine and how far and how much
(19:14):
I would feel comfortable on theland.
They do some interesting thingsup there.
One thing that was just amazingis you can go into the wildlife
office, bring your GPS in andthey will download a whole suite
of maps, waypoints and such,and what they would be is
(19:35):
traditional travel corridors,not necessarily trails, because
it's above the tree line,there's no trees, but it would
be like this is the inland routethat people would take to such
and such a lake, and along therethere's an emergency cabin.
Here and here's sort of theriver crossing, river crossing
(19:55):
or, if you go out across thelake, here's where you can get
off the sea ice and up on theland and follow along to travel
across to the next community orsomething like that.
So that was one thing that wassuper cool was like immediately
you got a lot of informationthat you could have at your
(20:17):
fingertips on your GPS, lot ofinformation that you could have
at your fingertips on your GPS,which the contrary to many local
people, many Inuit, that theywouldn't even use a GPS.
They have done it, you know,they've traveled it with their
family or their parents or theirfriends or whatever, and these
routes and locations would sortof all be committed to memory.
(20:39):
Per se, sure, but uh, for, forsomebody new coming into the
area, having having thatinformation was incredibly handy
, especially when times that youmight go out during the day and
all of a sudden the weatherturns and now it is complete
white out driving back.
(21:00):
And so I spent lots of time withthe GPS, like heads up mount on
my steering wheel not mysteering wheel but my handlebars
on my snowmobile and like juststaring at it, just zoomed in as
close as I could and justfollowing a line on the map
which I knew was a safe line,sort of no rocks or no cliffs or
(21:24):
whatever.
If I followed this line itwould get me back to town.
So, as I said, there was a biglearning curve and a big level
of confidence to gain to be ableto travel on the land and, as
somebody that hadn't been upthere very long, didn't know too
many people.
I had a few other friends thatwere similar situations, that
(21:48):
come up for work and wereadventurous, so we did some
travel together.
But I also was able to get outwith some Inuit, uh, both for
work but also, uh,recreationally, um and uh, and
sort of see how they traveledand learn some other things that
(22:09):
, uh, that I did there on my own.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I mean, imagine the land there too.
I'm sure it's fairlyunforgiving to those that are
unprepared and find themselvesway out in the middle of nowhere
and then possibly without aplan or knowing where some of
the safety cabins are, thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly.
The landscape is very, I wantto say, nondescript.
Often if you're in themountains per se bang, you can
identify individual peaks and beable to figure out your
direction or know where thevalley is.
If you need to head downhill,go downhill.
In the winter the tundra isfairly flat and there are hills
(23:00):
and rocks and such, but notidentifiable enough for somebody
like me to be able to navigatethat way on ice.
Sometimes there's so many sortof lakes and ponds and rivers
(23:21):
inland that when it's covered insnow and ice it just all blends
together.
You've got no idea.
So if you end up in a situationwhere you're crossing one of
the major rivers, you kind ofwant to be on these travel
corridors that might be a saferiver crossing.
Despite, let's say, you're outin February and it's been minus
(23:45):
20 for three months, you canstill come across open water and
that's kind of shocking.
It makes you think you knowthese are the precautions and
the hazards that are out thereand be careful.
Yeah, make sure you're not justlike freelancing it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Wow, that's weird how it allwouldn't freeze up, but just
nature.
So you did some.
So they have a lot of snowshoehair and they have uh, it's a
kind of gross right ptarmiganptarmigan yeah, so it's a gross
like we have rough gross here.
(24:27):
Is that their version of that?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
uh, kind of.
Yeah, there are places that thespecies overlap and that kind
of thing.
A ptarmigan, like Arctic hare,will turn white in the winter
and then back to a molted brownor whatever in the summer.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Oh, so they'll turn fully white.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, oh, that's neat .
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, just like our snowshoe hare here do, but our
grouse species don't.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Most of my hunting up there was in the wintertime.
For obvious reasons, I ended upwith an ATV, but you still
can't travel very far from landon an ATV.
You're almost.
I used to and I used to saythis, this a lot that I would
take my firearm for a walk onweekends and whatnot.
(25:22):
I would just during, during,let's say, the summertime uh, I
just leave the house with myfirearm over my shoulder and go
for a walk and hope that I mightget lucky and see a caribou,
but uh, that was very rarecaribou.
Numbers on Bacchanal at the timewere super low, okay, uh, so
most of my hunting was bysnowmobile in the winter and
(25:47):
charming and raffaella fly andflock uh, not much different
than than grouse or sharp tailor something like that, except
obviously there's no trees orbushes uh, you'd see them
scattered out on the rocks.
And the Arctic hare wereinteresting.
They're so big.
(26:07):
Even after you shoot one ofthem, it just usually gets
bigger and bigger.
It's like carrying a big goose.
If you shoot a big Canada gooseand you're hanging down by the
neck, you have to lift it up soit's not dragging.
That's like an Arctic hare.
I had to hold it up.
This thing feels like it couldbe 12 pounds or more If you were
(26:31):
big, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
That's pretty cool.
You'd get a little bit of ameal if you got one.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh, totally, man, Like too much of one.
I would make rabbit stew andthen I didn't want to eat rabbit
stew all week long.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So a lot bigger than our snowshoe hare.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So are they just hiding out everywhere?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
yeah, so are they just darker meat?
Um yeah, probably about thesame size as a, as a gross
really.
Um, okay, just sort of breastabout that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So how do you go about hunting the hair?
Like, where do they?
It's open there and everything.
Do they hide somewhere?
They like, what are they eating?
And stuff, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
They're munching on like lichens off the rocks, okay
.
So yeah, rocky areas were oftenthe the key to those species
and again, like I sort of said,they're so big and whatnot.
They didn't shoot a whole lotof hair and whatnot.
I didn't shoot a whole lot ofhair.
You probably had moreopportunities than uh, than I
really wanted, right, but uh, itwas still fun to be out.
(27:42):
One thing that I always wantedis I wanted to take an Arctic
fox uh, wicky color patterns andsuch yeah, but uh, uh to hunt
you needed permission from thelocal hunting and trapping
(28:03):
association.
It's kind of complicated.
They have a wildlifelegislation like a wildlife act,
just like virtually any otherprovince, and in there
stipulates your bag limits howmany ptarmigan, how many hare,
car many hare, caribou, da da da.
However, because Nunavut wascreated with the land claim
(28:26):
agreement signing with the Inuit, they have almost like they
have first right of refusal tothe wildlife and so you have to
get permission from the localhunting and trapping
organization to be able to thenexercise your right from your
(28:49):
allowance from the Wildlife Act.
And in many places that wasfairly easy to do.
It just depended on what youwere after.
So I had to write in to theHunter Trapper Organization and
say, yeah, I'm interested inhare and ptarmigan and fox and
caribou say something like that.
(29:11):
If I lived in another place,maybe I'd be asking for muskox,
or even I could ask for seal orwalrus.
It obviously depended on whereyou were, what animals were
around, and they might say, yeah, we'll give you permission to
harvest ptarmigan and hare, butwe won't give you permission to
(29:33):
harvest caribou, because there'snot enough here and we want
that to be uh for our localinuit, uh to harvest.
I was able to get permissionfor the animals and the species
that I asked for and then, ofcourse, purchase my hunting
license and and carry on throughthere.
But uh, as I sort of said, thecaribou numbers on on Baffin
(29:58):
were super low at the time.
I could purchase five cariboutags, but I only ever filled one
in the three years that I wasthere.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh really.
So why were the numbers down?
Is there wolves there?
Is there lack of habitat?
What contributes to that?
I guess over hunting.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, all good questions and sort of all play
into factors, right?
I think everybody recognizesterrible numbers have been in a
decline over the last 10 or moreyears all over the place and
that was the case as well onBaffin.
Yeah, the population of theInuit got quite big and you know
(30:40):
, if you're given recreationalhunters or licensed hunters five
tags a piece, it's quite a fewand then Inuit can harvest as
they need.
That could be a lot of animals.
But it's more than that.
It's more than the huntingpressure.
It's the climate change and thepredation and everything else
(31:04):
that sort of has influenced thedecline across the country.
In fact, after I had left, theyput a full moratorium on
caribou hunting from everybodylicensed hunters and Inuit
across the entire island to goand then do surveys to see what
(31:29):
the numbers were like and thentry and bring some of the
numbers back.
I haven't followed too muchsince this is going back 10
years ago now, but yeah, in someways it wasn't too long.
I harvested my animal fairlyclose to before I left.
I was like, oh, I might havebeen the last white hunter to
(31:53):
take care of my animal.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, they were like well, we're going to keep the
season going, but somebodyharvested one of the last cows
in the area.
So I mean caribou.
Here's a question.
I didn't know do they haveantlers or horns?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
antlers, okay however , both male and female can have
antlers, and normally do.
Normally female have antlers aswell, and often much smaller
and stunted, and they don'talways go hard.
I don't know all the details ofit, and so I wonder if the cows
(32:37):
always lose them each year.
Sometimes they just have somegrowth and they maintain.
I opened a picture here, I'mthinking, when my I know, when
my dad shot a cow years ago, itwas still in velvet, uh, but the
(32:58):
one I shot was was hard horned,uh and so.
But it's just, you know, youthink about a caribou antler,
while a cow, caribou is sort oflike a little white tail, right,
it's only maybe got about 10 or12 inches of antler growth.
These little spindly things.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Okay so because I was wondering that, where they both
have antlers, if it's hard totell the difference.
Are you looking for balls orwhat?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
You might get confused.
Uh, very young bulls and cows.
Uh, later in the year, I don'teven know, maybe when that when
I was successful, I want to sayit's probably march.
I'm trying to think when theseason ended.
It might have ended at the endof March, so going into April.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And then too they travel in large herds, correct?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
They can Much in some of the larger or some of the
larger sort of animal groups.
They'd be larger birds.
These ones were quite small.
There's not as much of amigration pattern on Baffin
because there's not hugedifferences in the geography and
(34:21):
the climate and such fromacross the island.
So on mainland the migration isNifkin and then you get large
herds all traveling together andthen once they get to their
area and they'll spread outduring the summer and then turn
around and come back togetherand these animals were much
(34:41):
smaller groups and they're stillvery mobile but it's not a
large migration from, say, thenorth to the south part of the
island and then the bikes wouldsoon come back.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Okay, so are they.
I mean, are they quite spooky?
How's the hunt work on tryingto sneak up on them?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Very good question.
So the day I was successful, Iwas out with three other Inuit a
co-worker of mine, her brotherand her nephew at least and so
we were four of us on threesnowmobiles and a comatic.
A comatic is a traditionalInuit style toboggan that would
(35:25):
be pulled behind the snowmobile,just carrying extra gear and
whatnot.
So the three of us were out, weleft town quite early and away
we went and the day was poor tobegin with.
The visibility was quite bad.
I remember getting out on a lakeOf course I'm here following on
(35:45):
my GPS, so I have someconfidence I'm following them.
But I'm here following on myGPS, so I have some confidence
I'm following them, but I'mfollowing along on my GPS and we
got to basically a whiteout onthe good-sized lake and ended up
doing a u-turn and there was,uh, quite a bit of we stopped
and there was quite a bit ofdiscussion going on where we
(36:06):
were, where we were supposed togo.
I actually brought my GPS out.
It might have been a bit of afaux pas, but I kind of showed
them the track, that we'd done abit of a U-ey and that we
needed to go this way tocontinue forward.
Well, the day cleared up and wetraveled over 100 kilometers
away from town, which is a longway, not having anything else
(36:34):
out there, right, not comingacross anything along the way.
We were sort of touring up anddown these hills along the side
of the lake.
I was kind of in the middle andthe machine stops in front of
me and the guy flings off hisrifle and starts shooting.
(36:54):
And I look up and there's aherd I think there were eight
animals in it, seven or eight,and he just started shooting.
Of course the other sled comesup and rifle comes out and
starts shooting as well.
Here I am going like, ah, I getmy rifle out and I take aim and
(37:16):
I'm able to drop an animal andkind of call it.
I'm like, yeah, I got that onethere.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Like skeet shooting.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Kind of and right there out there, essentially
there to fill the freezer, andthere's three of them and
they're feeding three or four orfive families and such which is
all fine.
Yeah, it's not going to waste,just sort of happened right away
(37:44):
as opposed to you know, well,here we go.
Okay, you know, sort of call ananimal or take an animal.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Well, it reminds me of jump shooting a pond yeah,
yeah For ducks or somethingright.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, exactly right, it was a little bit about that
flock shooting.
It was a little bit about thatflock shooting and so I think in
the end there was one that wedidn't take in the herd and then
after we went back and took itas well, but we scooped them up
(38:26):
on the common tick and drove toa spot that was a little bit of
shelter than where we were ableto break the animals down and
obviously got them out and thatkind of thing.
So, um, it was, uh, it was, youknow, quite an experience for
me.
I wasn't, uh, I didn't exactlyknow what I was getting into,
where I was going, how far wewere going.
All of a sudden we see some andI'm excited about taking my
(38:50):
first caribou, but I'm rushed orI might not have been able to
shoot one, and anyways, we getthem back.
And I don't know whether it wasthat day or the next day, but
my co-worker was like my brotherwas pretty impressed with you.
He thought he was going to haveto cut up your caribou for you,
for you, and I was, I was likeI want to invite myself out.
(39:14):
It wasn't like a.
This wasn't a guided trip.
I, I know what I'm doing enoughto be able to handle myself in
a hunting situation.
Uh, it's just maybe notcomfortable going that far out
and maybe knowing where to lookon the landscape for them, but
uh, it was cool.
We cut the animals off and Ipacked it up on the back of the
(39:37):
sled and, uh, what was?
What was interesting is we werethen later into the afternoon
and a long way from town, and toget back was quite an ordeal
really.
It was a very long way andtiring, and we stopped at one of
(39:57):
these emergency cabins that Isort of mentioned, kind of right
near dusk, and we stopped andmade tea and had a bite to eat
and and I kept thinking, oh youknow, are we going to get on the
road soon?
We're going to get going.
And they waited, and theywaited, and they waited and
(40:18):
eventually we got packed back up, uh, probably, let's say, an
hour, an hour and a half later.
But what they did is theywaited for it to be fully dark
and then it made travel thatmuch easier.
Traveling in that twilight hourwith flat light on a real flat
(40:39):
landscape is difficult.
I talked about traveling in awhiteout but just really hard on
the eyes and whatnot.
So we waited until it was fullydark and then traveled in the
headlights.
Now they traveled a littlefaster than I was comfortable
doing.
I was getting a little nervous.
(41:00):
I could see the city lights onthe horizon, but I could also
the the fuel light on mysnowmobile light up and I'm like
holy smoke, I better keep up.
Here could still be a long walkfrom here yeah, that's, uh.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah that's, that's pretty neat.
So they didn't tell youbeforehand.
Like you know, if we see a herdlike get ready, it's going to
be like a wild west shootingarcade, like you know.
Call your shot and take it.
They didn't, they just didn'treally want that part.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
No, because that's just normal for them, right?
Okay, yeah, so say caribou, sayseals, say even whales, hunting
whales by boat, and some people, and even me in some ways,
would call it a bit of ashooting gallery and a little
bit scary and uncontrolled thatway.
(41:52):
But the idea is the harvest,right.
I think a lot of us attach therecreation part to hunting, the
recreation part to hunting, andso it's about seeing the animal
and identifying it and thenobviously making an ethical shot
(42:12):
and that kind of thing.
Well, for these peopleparticularly that I was with and
many Inuit, it is about harvestand about bringing meat home
and so it doesn't matter whoshoots the animal right, as long
shoots the animal right, aslong as the animal gets shot and
you're able to collect it andbring it home.
(42:33):
So, uh, definitely a differentin sort of idea and strategy.
Uh, and and then, notunderstanding the other side, I
remember having a conversationlater on with another Inuit who
(42:53):
I thought should have beenknowledgeable enough about sort
of hunting laws and such torecognize that I had a hunting
season.
I kind of got anotherinvitation to come out caribou
hunting and I was like I can't,the season's closed and I got a
really blank, confused.
(43:13):
Look.
What do you mean?
The season's closed.
I was like I am not allowed tohunt caribou after such and such
a date because it falls outsidethe legal hunting season for me
.
And so, yeah, a differentperspective.
And you know their way of lifeis hey, this is caribou season,
(43:35):
let's go out and collect as manycaribou as we can.
Okay, now this is fish season,we'll go and set our nets and
get fish and have it and shareit.
This is the time to go on andget seal, or the community's got
a license to hunt a whale.
We're going to get a whaletogether and everybody's going
to help in and share in theharvest.
So just a bit of a differentperspective that I wasn't
(43:59):
prepared for.
But then they weren't sort ofexpecting me to want to take the
time and, like you know, seethe animal and identify it and
make a shot and be like reallyproud that here's my first
caribou yeah, yeah, no, it's,that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
You know we're here.
Yeah, obviously it'sidentifying it.
Okay, is this the one you knowand one everyone knows who shot
it and this and that.
But it's uh, I mean their wayof doing it too.
It's not, it's not wrong, it'sjust different.
Where they they're getting itfor, for meat they're getting,
they just want somebody oreveryone to get it and
everyone's going to share ityeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
And I liken it to sometimes in deer camp where
you're party hunting, say,you're partying, hunting in a
group of six and you've got twopeople dogging and four blockers
.
Well, if deer come out, theblockers are supposed to be
shooting.
Oh, it wasn't big enough.
It wasn't a big enough block, Ilet it go.
Well, you've got two peoplewith them walking around in the
(45:03):
bush working hard, that arelikely not going to get a shot
at a deer.
They want you to take theopportunities that they provide
for you by pushing deer out and,uh, and successfully make the
kill.
Um, whereas, yeah, if you're,if you're bow hunting in your
back, in your tree stand, uh,you're probably being very
(45:25):
selective and and you're you'reidentifying either a mature buck
that you want or, what have youright, a lone doe or something
like that, and so you're waitingfor that animal and looking for
it to be successful and beingselective on the harvest,
whether it's for a trophy orwhether it's for the betterment
(45:49):
of the species or the localanimal population.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's interesting just hearingabout the hunting in Nunavut and
the perspective there that theyhave and how they're hunting.
It's just a different way ofour hunting, and I guess I've
always thought of we all huntthe same, but some people really
do rely on the meat more andit's their way of life and
tradition, and it's so muchdifferent.
(46:20):
It's cool, though, to hearabout that.
It's unique.
Yes, it's unique.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yes, it's similar to what I see here in northern
Ontario at the time, withindigenous hunters harvesting
moose.
Sometimes for them it is justgoing out and taking the first
animal that they're able to find.
Sometimes, and because theyhave a much longer opportunity
(46:49):
and able to take differentanimals at different times, uh,
they can be selective andlooking for that young bull so
they get sort of the maximum, uh, size and amount of return and,
and you know, quality of meat.
But uh, uh, it is about theharvest, about bringing
something home, whereas Icertainly find value and it's
(47:13):
very important, of what I put inmy freezer, but I also am
always looking for theexperience and the enjoyment of
the hunt.
That's what's drawn me tohunting is the opportunity to to
get outdoors, seeing new places, be in the wild uh, you know,
see wild life and and thenchallenge myself.
(47:35):
And I, you know I'm not going toshoot the first little buck
that comes out this year, I'mgoing to wait or I, uh, I got to
find that, uh, that five pointbowl Cause I just been staring
at fakers for the last fouryears.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, um, I think that's a
great spot to leave it for, uh,for this episode, but I'm hoping
to have you on again becausewe've still got your New Zealand
and your African hunts and, uh,alberta as well.
Uh, it's uh.
Yeah, you've said you've hadsome unique hunting experiences
and the Nudavit one definitelywas one of them.
(48:12):
But, yeah, I can't thank youenough for coming on and I can't
wait to hear about some more ofyour adventures.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Sure, I would be happy to do that.
It's been fun, it's beeninteresting to reminisce and go
back and look at some of thosefine points.
I have kept a list, almost likea bit of a diary, year after
year, of what I've done, andpart of that is because I have
(48:41):
hunted in different places andI've moved around to try and
keep track and so they're allstories right, I don't have my
caribou antlers on the wall,it's just a little cow, but I
have some pictures.
And then, to talk about it more, I remember little bits of that
(49:03):
hunt and the experience thatbring back those memories and
show why those experiences areso valuable.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, I could tell when you were telling the
stories how you were reminiscingand you know just from what you
were telling I could tell youwere visualizing all of it and
that you had a lot of fun and itwas quite an experience.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Thanks for yours, okay, and yeah, we'll talk again
.
Absolutely have a good night,okay, bye, bye.
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken meyer.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how to's.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast, allrighty.
Welcome to hunts on outfittingpodcast.
We're happy to have you tuningin and listening.
(00:32):
If you could share us out andleave us a review, that'd be
great from all of you all right?
So this week on the podcast,what do elk camps in alberta and
caribou up in Nunavut have incommon?
Not too much other than thefact that our guest today has
been to both places and huntedboth animals, and we're excited
to hear all about it.
(00:52):
So let's get to it.
Yeah, I mean so.
Thanks so much for taking mycall, matthew, and so you're
living in Ontario right now, butyou've bounced around a few
different places, have you?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, that's correct.
I'm a resident of NorthernOntario, now near Thunder Bay,
but I've carried driver'slicenses in three, four
provinces in one territory.
So it's been a fair bit ofmoving around, both for well,
some for work, but also justsort of you know, trying to find
(01:26):
my way and what I was going todo in some of my earlier years.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, absolutely Just going.
You know you had time to dothat then and do some adventures
and scout around a little, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So I mean you were saying you emailed me, me you're
gonna get your start you saidaround 26 in big game hunting.
So I mean a bit later.
Uh, you know, I guess kind ofsome people start quite young,
but you, uh, you've definitelymade up for for that starting a
bit later.
You've been on, uh, quite a fewadventures yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Uh, I did start, maybe later than some people do.
I have some hunting in thefamily, but not a lot of serious
hunting, and maybe my focuswhen I was younger was more on
sports and adventure, recreationand that kind of thing, and so
(02:22):
it wasn't until I kind of gotover some of those things,
wasn't playing soccer anymore,wasn't doing any whitewater
kayaking, and was able to comeback and then spend some time
with my family, with my father,and start into big game hunting
and start into big game hunting,which then kind of took off as
(02:48):
my primary directed recreation,as opposed to, as I said, as
opposed to taking whitewaterkayaking trips.
Now I took some hunting tripsas I developed after a few years
in but yeah, starting in 26,some people grow up in a hunting
(03:10):
lifestyle, whether they haveproperty on a farm or something
like that, and that wasn't me.
I grew up in a small town andspent more time on the soccer
football field than out in thewoods.
Yeah, I mean, both activitiescan be quite time the soccer
football field than out in thewoods.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, I mean both activities can be quite
time-consuming, whether it'ssports or hunting.
I mean you have your weekendwarriors, but hunting is one of
those things I find that it'shard just to dip your toes in.
Like if you're going to getcommitted to it, you try to put
in a lot of time, and if youdon't have that time, a lot of
people just kind kind of iteither doesn't come up or it
(03:47):
just kind of phases out of theirlife a little bit sure it can
be lots of things right.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It can be, uh, one week a year for people going to
deer camp or going to moose camp, or it could be um something
that if they have time or ifthey get an invite they come out
and do a duck or goose hunt orsomething like that.
Or for others, it can besomething that they think about
(04:13):
and they plan for and they booktheir vacations around and sort
of work through it all year,whether that's scouting or
whether that's different huntingseasons or that kind of thing
year, whether that's scouting orwhether that's different
hunting seasons or that kind ofthing.
So yeah, it's uh.
It developed more uh of ayear-round thing for me, um,
after you know, after a few uhand um learning to really enjoy
(04:38):
it and learning about otheropportunities than uh than just
uh go to deer camp with my, myfather right.
And then, uh, in the email you'dsent me to talk about some of
your hunting experiences and allthat you're saying, speaking
about deer camp, is you guyskind of formed like an elk camp,
uh, tradition yes, I uh, I my,my dad is a twin and, uh, his
(05:02):
brother lives out in Alberta,and so I flip-flopped between
Ontario and Alberta through someof those years trying to figure
out what I was going to do inlife and was able to get invited
out with my uncle and he waspart of a group of friends that
(05:24):
had property and had a cabin,specifically sort of in the
mountains right on the edge forelk hunting really, but also a
retreat for snowmobiling andthat kind of thing.
But yeah, I stumbled into thatand when I got in there and got
(05:45):
an invite to come back andrealize how special it was, it
was something that I sort ofcommitted to, despite leaving
Alberta, despite moving away,would stay in the draw and in
fact travel and fly out.
It'd be hard to say, I don'tknow whether it was eight or
(06:06):
nine years, perhaps I huntedthere all in a row oh, wow,
that's.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Uh.
Yeah, that's fortunate.
So I was going to ask that withalberta.
Uh, it is a draw.
It's not an over counter tagfor residents, is it?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
even residents have to apply well, it all depends on
which zone, zone and the animaland such.
The zone that I was elk huntingin was an over-the-counter bull
tag, a three-point or better,but the draw system was for a
cow.
We often hunted late in theseason, having actually
(06:42):
migrating animals coming up fromuh the states and would would
be herds uh of elk, but duringthat time the bulls were not
with the cows, normally it wasafter the rut in the breeding
season and so they'd gone offand uh um.
So it was quite valuable to tryand get a cow tag and and have
(07:03):
opportunity.
It took a number of yearsbefore I was able to take my
first elk, but certainly myfirst bull.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, so migrating up from the States, so are they
coming in from Montana?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I think so.
There's sort of a circlemigration, yeah, circling back
up through southwestern Albertacorner of BC and then up into
the Porcupine Hills north ofPinter Creek area.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay, yeah, that's neat.
You were saying two, threepoints or better.
Is that common for most areasthere that they have to have a
certain amount of points to beable to be harvested?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think it's often three or three or six uh, some
some zones are, are more, and Ithink you don't often see, I
don't think of like a four point, but I think it's normally um
sort of a three, which would bea um two-and-a-half-year-old
animal normally, or, say, asix-point, which would probably
be maybe a five-year-old animalor better.
Okay, so the zones would oftenhave the point count that you'd
(08:20):
have to meet to be a legalanimal.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Why do you think they do that?
Because I, because they don'tdo that with deer there.
Do they Whitetail or mule deer?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
No, I've heard of mule deer having a point system,
maybe in jurisdictions down inthe states, but it is obviously
similar to a flock system infishing.
You want to keep an age class,you want to allow some of the
young ones to come through, sortof that.
(08:55):
Let the small animals matureand or just limit the success
rate so often, as I said, thoseherds might come through, there
might be, let's say there mightmight come through, there might
be, let's say there might be 30,there might be 50 cows, there
might be half a dozen spikebulls in there, but they'd be
like year and a half old bullsand, uh, some likely less than
(09:19):
three points, and so then youunable to harvest.
So you know, if I could shoot aspike bull I probably would
have shot a spike bull almostevery year.
But having to get three pointsor better limits the success
rate a little bit.
Wildlife management isdifferent and all over in
different jurisdictions, butthat's sort of my opinion and my
(09:43):
thought process for the pointsystem Makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I was just curious.
But yeah, no, that makes sense.
So was it a fairly challenginghunt?
I mean, you guys are in youknow kind of the mountains.
Are you bugling and going everyday?
Are the elk quite responsive?
Are you guys hunting themduring the rut?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
No, this was always late season and, like late
November, Certainly often verycold, Sometimes lots of snow,
Sometimes not.
But I definitely say in themountains, Not full on like
(10:24):
Rocky Mountains where there'stowering peaks above you, but uh
, um, when you got to the top,like you're sort of right near
the tree line, uh, um, can beleft out and that kind of thing.
So it was uh, right right onthe border with BC, very close,
and, yeah, definitely achallenging hunt.
(10:45):
If you're trying to hike hillsin minus 20, you're going to be
sweating going up but it doesn'ttake you very long to get
chilled quite quickly.
And the interesting thing aboutthat which was you know from the
Ontario boy, originally weweren't the only hunters out
(11:05):
there you would see wolf tracks,you would see cougar tracks and
we would see grizzly bears.
Maybe every other year youcould see grizzly bears or
tracks and yeah, it's prettystrange to see minus 20 and two
(11:28):
feet of snow and a big boar of agrizzly come cruising over the
hill.
But that's a littleintimidating as seeing cougar
tracks in a thick forest area,whatever, and the hair starts
standing up on the back of yourneck.
So it was certainly anadventure and exciting to be in
(11:51):
an environment there where itwas wild space, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, yeah, lots of teeth out there.
I've talked to other guys fromAlberta and they've had like one
of those hair-raising momentswhere they realized they've been
being stalked by by a cat, bymountain lion.
Had you ever experiencedanything like that, or not, that
you know of?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Uh, not that I not that I felt that I was being
stalked or uh, you know turnedaround and never saw one.
You certainly have thosefighting sense moments where
things are a little uh iffy,have those 50 cents moments
where things are a little uhiffy.
(12:30):
I had one day where we'd hikedup, had a big day, came back to
the cabin and it was, uh, atleast, um, a pasture land where
the cabin is and, and the nightbefore we've seen some animals
come out of the far end of thefield, sort of across the valley
.
I was like I had to walk overthere, take a look at the tracks
(12:51):
, you know, maybe I'll learnsomething.
And uh, as I was walkingthrough the grasses, I came
across a gunk which I wasn'treally expecting.
Uh, so I kind of gave that awide berth, you know, obviously
you don't want to run into askunk, yeah.
And then I got to the far endwhere we'd seen these animals
(13:11):
come over, uh, the fence, and itwas just covered in cougar
traps and I was like, whoa, likethese are fresh.
They were not here last night,uh, when the they're on top of
the elk tracks were not herelast night.
They're on top of the elktracks that were there last
night, I was like, okay, that'senough for me.
(13:32):
It's been a long day, I'm goingback to the cabin and so I've
already kind of got pumped up.
I almost walked into a skunk.
Now I'm at the far end of thefield and there's cougar tracks
all over the place and it's likeI am ready to sit down, have a
beer and just relax.
So I look back and I'm like,yeah, I don't want to walk back
(13:54):
across the field because therewas a skunk out there and I
don't know where it is now.
But my other option is to sortof follow the tree line and who
knows where this cougar islaying on the tree line.
But I'm like that's going to bethe safer option.
I really don't want to run intoa skunk and get sprayed out
here.
So I'm following the tree lineand I'm sure pretty much
(14:18):
everybody has had thisexperience.
I had a rough grouse blow outright under my foot.
Oh, I had the safety halfway upand I jumped and I was sweating
.
It was like it just, you know,you just got wound up enough.
(14:41):
You got that like tension buildup and sort of that little bit
of fear, and then that spook ohboy, was it heart pounding.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, well, I've had some good scares from them here
and I'm not worried about, youknow, a cougar coming at me, so
exactly yeah, they just tend tofind their way right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, just sit so tight until you almost step on
them.
I mean, at least you had yoursafety part way off, like you
were ready for a battle yeah,I'm certainly glad it was just a
grouse, but he could have leftme alone that day and I would
have probably saved a few yearsoff by the end of my life.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, noah, I mean it sounds really
interesting hunting there in thewild Well, I mean, it was in
the wild but up in the mountainsfor the elk when you're
competing with so many otherpredators, I guess that are
coming at them.
I've heard this I don't know ifyou've noticed it where the elk
in some areas have even gonequieter because the wolves have
(15:50):
kind of changed their behavior,where if they're bugling and
stuff going on more, the wolvesare able to pattern them and
track them down quicker.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I've heard sort of similar things, sometimes more
related to hunters being toovocal, and so I'll kind of move
away from the noise and turnquiet.
But not having hunted them inSeptember, in that rut period
when they're really respondingand really talking, I didn't
(16:24):
notice much of that.
You get into the herds and youcan hear those cows chirp, which
is quite neat.
There is a lot of chatter, butI never bugled and never heard a
bugle from a bull During thoseexperiences late November it's
just past that time of themtalking?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I got in contact with youthrough a mutual friend, chris.
He was like are you looking fora guy with more hunting stories
?
I'm like looking for anybodywith hunting stories.
So he told me about you and wetalked and you you definitely.
You know you've been quite afew places on some pretty
interesting hunts.
But one of them that you'dmentioned to me is quite
(17:06):
interested in is you've huntedin Nunavut and I I don't know
anything about that, what you'rehunting there, how you're
hunting them, what the weather'slike.
So I'm curious if you couldjust kind of walk us through a
little bit of your huntingadventures there.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Sure.
So I lived in Iqaluit on BaffinIsland in, yes, the territory
of Nunavut, and I spent aboutthree years there.
I was there for work and it'san interesting place.
I was there for work and it'san interesting place.
Calvert's quite a large city bystandards.
(17:46):
There was about 12,000 peoplethere at the time.
It's a full city Grocery stores, mall, recreation center, movie
theater, a couple bars.
Da is that.
However, it's so isolated likeyou can't go anywhere.
You can't drive out of town.
(18:07):
You can take a vehicle to theedge of town and then the road
just stops and that's it, and itis the capital of Nunavut and
the service center to virtuallyall of the Eastern Arctic.
Most of the other communitiesfrom there that you would fly to
are quite small, a couplethousand people or so.
(18:27):
So going up there, I kind ofknew enough to be like, wow, I
need a vehicle of transportation, of sorts, and so I got myself
a snowmobile.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense for up there, for
obvious reasons it wasintimidating.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
The Arctic is a really neat place, but it's
super remote and different to alot of countries that I've
traveled before, and so it tookme a long time to sort of build
that confidence, not only withthe machine but also like how
far I could travel with themachine and how far and how much
(19:14):
I would feel comfortable on theland.
They do some interesting thingsup there.
One thing that was just amazingis you can go into the wildlife
office, bring your GPS in andthey will download a whole suite
of maps, waypoints and such,and what they would be is
(19:35):
traditional travel corridors,not necessarily trails, because
it's above the tree line,there's no trees, but it would
be like this is the inland routethat people would take to such
and such a lake, and along therethere's an emergency cabin.
Here and here's sort of theriver crossing, river crossing
(19:55):
or, if you go out across thelake, here's where you can get
off the sea ice and up on theland and follow along to travel
across to the next community orsomething like that.
So that was one thing that wassuper cool was like immediately
you got a lot of informationthat you could have at your
(20:17):
fingertips on your GPS, lot ofinformation that you could have
at your fingertips on your GPS,which the contrary to many local
people, many Inuit, that theywouldn't even use a GPS.
They have done it, you know,they've traveled it with their
family or their parents or theirfriends or whatever, and these
routes and locations would sortof all be committed to memory.
(20:39):
Per se, sure, but uh, for, forsomebody new coming into the
area, having having thatinformation was incredibly handy
, especially when times that youmight go out during the day and
all of a sudden the weatherturns and now it is complete
white out driving back.
(21:00):
And so I spent lots of time withthe GPS, like heads up mount on
my steering wheel not mysteering wheel but my handlebars
on my snowmobile and like juststaring at it, just zoomed in as
close as I could and justfollowing a line on the map
which I knew was a safe line,sort of no rocks or no cliffs or
(21:24):
whatever.
If I followed this line itwould get me back to town.
So, as I said, there was a biglearning curve and a big level
of confidence to gain to be ableto travel on the land and, as
somebody that hadn't been upthere very long, didn't know too
many people.
I had a few other friends thatwere similar situations, that
(21:48):
come up for work and wereadventurous, so we did some
travel together.
But I also was able to get outwith some Inuit, uh, both for
work but also, uh,recreationally, um and uh, and
sort of see how they traveledand learn some other things that
(22:09):
, uh, that I did there on my own.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I mean, imagine the land there too.
I'm sure it's fairlyunforgiving to those that are
unprepared and find themselvesway out in the middle of nowhere
and then possibly without aplan or knowing where some of
the safety cabins are, thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly.
The landscape is very, I wantto say, nondescript.
Often if you're in themountains per se bang, you can
identify individual peaks and beable to figure out your
direction or know where thevalley is.
If you need to head downhill,go downhill.
In the winter the tundra isfairly flat and there are hills
(23:00):
and rocks and such, but notidentifiable enough for somebody
like me to be able to navigatethat way on ice.
Sometimes there's so many sortof lakes and ponds and rivers
(23:21):
inland that when it's covered insnow and ice it just all blends
together.
You've got no idea.
So if you end up in a situationwhere you're crossing one of
the major rivers, you kind ofwant to be on these travel
corridors that might be a saferiver crossing.
Despite, let's say, you're outin February and it's been minus
(23:45):
20 for three months, you canstill come across open water and
that's kind of shocking.
It makes you think you knowthese are the precautions and
the hazards that are out thereand be careful.
Yeah, make sure you're not justlike freelancing it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Wow, that's weird how it allwouldn't freeze up, but just
nature.
So you did some.
So they have a lot of snowshoehair and they have uh, it's a
kind of gross right ptarmiganptarmigan yeah, so it's a gross
like we have rough gross here.
(24:27):
Is that their version of that?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
uh, kind of.
Yeah, there are places that thespecies overlap and that kind
of thing.
A ptarmigan, like Arctic hare,will turn white in the winter
and then back to a molted brownor whatever in the summer.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Oh, so they'll turn fully white.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, oh, that's neat .
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, just like our snowshoe hare here do, but our
grouse species don't.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Most of my hunting up there was in the wintertime.
For obvious reasons, I ended upwith an ATV, but you still
can't travel very far from landon an ATV.
You're almost.
I used to and I used to saythis, this a lot that I would
take my firearm for a walk onweekends and whatnot.
(25:22):
I would just during, during,let's say, the summertime uh, I
just leave the house with myfirearm over my shoulder and go
for a walk and hope that I mightget lucky and see a caribou,
but uh, that was very rarecaribou.
Numbers on Bacchanal at the timewere super low, okay, uh, so
most of my hunting was bysnowmobile in the winter and
(25:47):
charming and raffaella fly andflock uh, not much different
than than grouse or sharp tailor something like that, except
obviously there's no trees orbushes uh, you'd see them
scattered out on the rocks.
And the Arctic hare wereinteresting.
They're so big.
(26:07):
Even after you shoot one ofthem, it just usually gets
bigger and bigger.
It's like carrying a big goose.
If you shoot a big Canada gooseand you're hanging down by the
neck, you have to lift it up soit's not dragging.
That's like an Arctic hare.
I had to hold it up.
This thing feels like it couldbe 12 pounds or more If you were
(26:31):
big, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
That's pretty cool.
You'd get a little bit of ameal if you got one.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh, totally, man, Like too much of one.
I would make rabbit stew andthen I didn't want to eat rabbit
stew all week long.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So a lot bigger than our snowshoe hare.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
So are they just hiding out everywhere?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
yeah, so are they just darker meat?
Um yeah, probably about thesame size as a, as a gross
really.
Um, okay, just sort of breastabout that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So how do you go about hunting the hair?
Like, where do they?
It's open there and everything.
Do they hide somewhere?
They like, what are they eating?
And stuff, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
They're munching on like lichens off the rocks, okay
.
So yeah, rocky areas were oftenthe the key to those species
and again, like I sort of said,they're so big and whatnot.
They didn't shoot a whole lotof hair and whatnot.
I didn't shoot a whole lot ofhair.
You probably had moreopportunities than uh, than I
really wanted, right, but uh, itwas still fun to be out.
(27:42):
One thing that I always wantedis I wanted to take an Arctic
fox uh, wicky color patterns andsuch yeah, but uh, uh to hunt
you needed permission from thelocal hunting and trapping
(28:03):
association.
It's kind of complicated.
They have a wildlifelegislation like a wildlife act,
just like virtually any otherprovince, and in there
stipulates your bag limits howmany ptarmigan, how many hare,
car many hare, caribou, da da da.
However, because Nunavut wascreated with the land claim
(28:26):
agreement signing with the Inuit, they have almost like they
have first right of refusal tothe wildlife and so you have to
get permission from the localhunting and trapping
organization to be able to thenexercise your right from your
(28:49):
allowance from the Wildlife Act.
And in many places that wasfairly easy to do.
It just depended on what youwere after.
So I had to write in to theHunter Trapper Organization and
say, yeah, I'm interested inhare and ptarmigan and fox and
caribou say something like that.
(29:11):
If I lived in another place,maybe I'd be asking for muskox,
or even I could ask for seal orwalrus.
It obviously depended on whereyou were, what animals were
around, and they might say, yeah, we'll give you permission to
harvest ptarmigan and hare, butwe won't give you permission to
(29:33):
harvest caribou, because there'snot enough here and we want
that to be uh for our localinuit, uh to harvest.
I was able to get permissionfor the animals and the species
that I asked for and then, ofcourse, purchase my hunting
license and and carry on throughthere.
But uh, as I sort of said, thecaribou numbers on on Baffin
(29:58):
were super low at the time.
I could purchase five cariboutags, but I only ever filled one
in the three years that I wasthere.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh really.
So why were the numbers down?
Is there wolves there?
Is there lack of habitat?
What contributes to that?
I guess over hunting.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, all good questions and sort of all play
into factors, right?
I think everybody recognizesterrible numbers have been in a
decline over the last 10 or moreyears all over the place and
that was the case as well onBaffin.
Yeah, the population of theInuit got quite big and you know
(30:40):
, if you're given recreationalhunters or licensed hunters five
tags a piece, it's quite a fewand then Inuit can harvest as
they need.
That could be a lot of animals.
But it's more than that.
It's more than the huntingpressure.
It's the climate change and thepredation and everything else
(31:04):
that sort of has influenced thedecline across the country.
In fact, after I had left, theyput a full moratorium on
caribou hunting from everybodylicensed hunters and Inuit
across the entire island to goand then do surveys to see what
(31:29):
the numbers were like and thentry and bring some of the
numbers back.
I haven't followed too muchsince this is going back 10
years ago now, but yeah, in someways it wasn't too long.
I harvested my animal fairlyclose to before I left.
I was like, oh, I might havebeen the last white hunter to
(31:53):
take care of my animal.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, they were like well, we're going to keep the
season going, but somebodyharvested one of the last cows
in the area.
So I mean caribou.
Here's a question.
I didn't know do they haveantlers or horns?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
antlers, okay however , both male and female can have
antlers, and normally do.
Normally female have antlers aswell, and often much smaller
and stunted, and they don'talways go hard.
I don't know all the details ofit, and so I wonder if the cows
(32:37):
always lose them each year.
Sometimes they just have somegrowth and they maintain.
I opened a picture here, I'mthinking, when my I know, when
my dad shot a cow years ago, itwas still in velvet, uh, but the
(32:58):
one I shot was was hard horned,uh and so.
But it's just, you know, youthink about a caribou antler,
while a cow, caribou is sort oflike a little white tail, right,
it's only maybe got about 10 or12 inches of antler growth.
These little spindly things.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Okay so because I was wondering that, where they both
have antlers, if it's hard totell the difference.
Are you looking for balls orwhat?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
You might get confused.
Uh, very young bulls and cows.
Uh, later in the year, I don'teven know, maybe when that when
I was successful, I want to sayit's probably march.
I'm trying to think when theseason ended.
It might have ended at the endof March, so going into April.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And then too they travel in large herds, correct?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
They can Much in some of the larger or some of the
larger sort of animal groups.
They'd be larger birds.
These ones were quite small.
There's not as much of amigration pattern on Baffin
because there's not hugedifferences in the geography and
(34:21):
the climate and such fromacross the island.
So on mainland the migration isNifkin and then you get large
herds all traveling together andthen once they get to their
area and they'll spread outduring the summer and then turn
around and come back togetherand these animals were much
(34:41):
smaller groups and they're stillvery mobile but it's not a
large migration from, say, thenorth to the south part of the
island and then the bikes wouldsoon come back.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Okay, so are they.
I mean, are they quite spooky?
How's the hunt work on tryingto sneak up on them?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Very good question.
So the day I was successful, Iwas out with three other Inuit a
co-worker of mine, her brotherand her nephew at least and so
we were four of us on threesnowmobiles and a comatic.
A comatic is a traditionalInuit style toboggan that would
(35:25):
be pulled behind the snowmobile,just carrying extra gear and
whatnot.
So the three of us were out, weleft town quite early and away
we went and the day was poor tobegin with.
The visibility was quite bad.
I remember getting out on a lakeOf course I'm here following on
(35:45):
my GPS, so I have someconfidence I'm following them.
But I'm here following on myGPS, so I have some confidence
I'm following them, but I'mfollowing along on my GPS and we
got to basically a whiteout onthe good-sized lake and ended up
doing a u-turn and there was,uh, quite a bit of we stopped
and there was quite a bit ofdiscussion going on where we
(36:06):
were, where we were supposed togo.
I actually brought my GPS out.
It might have been a bit of afaux pas, but I kind of showed
them the track, that we'd done abit of a U-ey and that we
needed to go this way tocontinue forward.
Well, the day cleared up and wetraveled over 100 kilometers
away from town, which is a longway, not having anything else
(36:34):
out there, right, not comingacross anything along the way.
We were sort of touring up anddown these hills along the side
of the lake.
I was kind of in the middle andthe machine stops in front of
me and the guy flings off hisrifle and starts shooting.
(36:54):
And I look up and there's aherd I think there were eight
animals in it, seven or eight,and he just started shooting.
Of course the other sled comesup and rifle comes out and
starts shooting as well.
Here I am going like, ah, I getmy rifle out and I take aim and
(37:16):
I'm able to drop an animal andkind of call it.
I'm like, yeah, I got that onethere.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Like skeet shooting.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Kind of and right there out there, essentially
there to fill the freezer, andthere's three of them and
they're feeding three or four orfive families and such which is
all fine.
Yeah, it's not going to waste,just sort of happened right away
(37:44):
as opposed to you know, well,here we go.
Okay, you know, sort of call ananimal or take an animal.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Well, it reminds me of jump shooting a pond yeah,
yeah For ducks or somethingright.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, exactly right, it was a little bit about that
flock shooting.
It was a little bit about thatflock shooting and so I think in
the end there was one that wedidn't take in the herd and then
after we went back and took itas well, but we scooped them up
(38:26):
on the common tick and drove toa spot that was a little bit of
shelter than where we were ableto break the animals down and
obviously got them out and thatkind of thing.
So, um, it was, uh, it was, youknow, quite an experience for
me.
I wasn't, uh, I didn't exactlyknow what I was getting into,
where I was going, how far wewere going.
All of a sudden we see some andI'm excited about taking my
(38:50):
first caribou, but I'm rushed orI might not have been able to
shoot one, and anyways, we getthem back.
And I don't know whether it wasthat day or the next day, but
my co-worker was like my brotherwas pretty impressed with you.
He thought he was going to haveto cut up your caribou for you,
for you, and I was, I was likeI want to invite myself out.
(39:14):
It wasn't like a.
This wasn't a guided trip.
I, I know what I'm doing enoughto be able to handle myself in
a hunting situation.
Uh, it's just maybe notcomfortable going that far out
and maybe knowing where to lookon the landscape for them, but
uh, it was cool.
We cut the animals off and Ipacked it up on the back of the
(39:37):
sled and, uh, what was?
What was interesting is we werethen later into the afternoon
and a long way from town, and toget back was quite an ordeal
really.
It was a very long way andtiring, and we stopped at one of
(39:57):
these emergency cabins that Isort of mentioned, kind of right
near dusk, and we stopped andmade tea and had a bite to eat
and and I kept thinking, oh youknow, are we going to get on the
road soon?
We're going to get going.
And they waited, and theywaited, and they waited and
(40:18):
eventually we got packed back up, uh, probably, let's say, an
hour, an hour and a half later.
But what they did is theywaited for it to be fully dark
and then it made travel thatmuch easier.
Traveling in that twilight hourwith flat light on a real flat
(40:39):
landscape is difficult.
I talked about traveling in awhiteout but just really hard on
the eyes and whatnot.
So we waited until it was fullydark and then traveled in the
headlights.
Now they traveled a littlefaster than I was comfortable
doing.
I was getting a little nervous.
(41:00):
I could see the city lights onthe horizon, but I could also
the the fuel light on mysnowmobile light up and I'm like
holy smoke, I better keep up.
Here could still be a long walkfrom here yeah, that's, uh.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah that's, that's pretty neat.
So they didn't tell youbeforehand.
Like you know, if we see a herdlike get ready, it's going to
be like a wild west shootingarcade, like you know.
Call your shot and take it.
They didn't, they just didn'treally want that part.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
No, because that's just normal for them, right?
Okay, yeah, so say caribou, sayseals, say even whales, hunting
whales by boat, and some people, and even me in some ways,
would call it a bit of ashooting gallery and a little
bit scary and uncontrolled thatway.
(41:52):
But the idea is the harvest,right.
I think a lot of us attach therecreation part to hunting, the
recreation part to hunting, andso it's about seeing the animal
and identifying it and thenobviously making an ethical shot
(42:12):
and that kind of thing.
Well, for these peopleparticularly that I was with and
many Inuit, it is about harvestand about bringing meat home
and so it doesn't matter whoshoots the animal right, as long
shoots the animal right, aslong as the animal gets shot and
you're able to collect it andbring it home.
(42:33):
So, uh, definitely a differentin sort of idea and strategy.
Uh, and and then, notunderstanding the other side, I
remember having a conversationlater on with another Inuit who
(42:53):
I thought should have beenknowledgeable enough about sort
of hunting laws and such torecognize that I had a hunting
season.
I kind of got anotherinvitation to come out caribou
hunting and I was like I can't,the season's closed and I got a
really blank, confused.
(43:13):
Look.
What do you mean?
The season's closed.
I was like I am not allowed tohunt caribou after such and such
a date because it falls outsidethe legal hunting season for me
.
And so, yeah, a differentperspective.
And you know their way of lifeis hey, this is caribou season,
(43:35):
let's go out and collect as manycaribou as we can.
Okay, now this is fish season,we'll go and set our nets and
get fish and have it and shareit.
This is the time to go on andget seal, or the community's got
a license to hunt a whale.
We're going to get a whaletogether and everybody's going
to help in and share in theharvest.
So just a bit of a differentperspective that I wasn't
(43:59):
prepared for.
But then they weren't sort ofexpecting me to want to take the
time and, like you know, seethe animal and identify it and
make a shot and be like reallyproud that here's my first
caribou yeah, yeah, no, it's,that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
You know we're here.
Yeah, obviously it'sidentifying it.
Okay, is this the one you knowand one everyone knows who shot
it and this and that.
But it's uh, I mean their wayof doing it too.
It's not, it's not wrong, it'sjust different.
Where they they're getting itfor, for meat they're getting,
they just want somebody oreveryone to get it and
everyone's going to share ityeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
And I liken it to sometimes in deer camp where
you're party hunting, say,you're partying, hunting in a
group of six and you've got twopeople dogging and four blockers
.
Well, if deer come out, theblockers are supposed to be
shooting.
Oh, it wasn't big enough.
It wasn't a big enough block, Ilet it go.
Well, you've got two peoplewith them walking around in the
(45:03):
bush working hard, that arelikely not going to get a shot
at a deer.
They want you to take theopportunities that they provide
for you by pushing deer out and,uh, and successfully make the
kill.
Um, whereas, yeah, if you're,if you're bow hunting in your
back, in your tree stand, uh,you're probably being very
(45:25):
selective and and you're you'reidentifying either a mature buck
that you want or, what have youright, a lone doe or something
like that, and so you're waitingfor that animal and looking for
it to be successful and beingselective on the harvest,
whether it's for a trophy orwhether it's for the betterment
(45:49):
of the species or the localanimal population.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's interesting just hearingabout the hunting in Nunavut and
the perspective there that theyhave and how they're hunting.
It's just a different way ofour hunting, and I guess I've
always thought of we all huntthe same, but some people really
do rely on the meat more andit's their way of life and
tradition, and it's so muchdifferent.
(46:20):
It's cool, though, to hearabout that.
It's unique.
Yes, it's unique.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yes, it's similar to what I see here in northern
Ontario at the time, withindigenous hunters harvesting
moose.
Sometimes for them it is justgoing out and taking the first
animal that they're able to find.
Sometimes, and because theyhave a much longer opportunity
(46:49):
and able to take differentanimals at different times, uh,
they can be selective andlooking for that young bull so
they get sort of the maximum, uh, size and amount of return and,
and you know, quality of meat.
But uh, uh, it is about theharvest, about bringing
something home, whereas Icertainly find value and it's
(47:13):
very important, of what I put inmy freezer, but I also am
always looking for theexperience and the enjoyment of
the hunt.
That's what's drawn me tohunting is the opportunity to to
get outdoors, seeing new places, be in the wild uh, you know,
see wild life and and thenchallenge myself.
(47:35):
And I, you know I'm not going toshoot the first little buck
that comes out this year, I'mgoing to wait or I, uh, I got to
find that, uh, that five pointbowl Cause I just been staring
at fakers for the last fouryears.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, um, I think that's a
great spot to leave it for, uh,for this episode, but I'm hoping
to have you on again becausewe've still got your New Zealand
and your African hunts and, uh,alberta as well.
Uh, it's uh.
Yeah, you've said you've hadsome unique hunting experiences
and the Nudavit one definitelywas one of them.
(48:12):
But, yeah, I can't thank youenough for coming on and I can't
wait to hear about some more ofyour adventures.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Sure, I would be happy to do that.
It's been fun, it's beeninteresting to reminisce and go
back and look at some of thosefine points.
I have kept a list, almost likea bit of a diary, year after
year, of what I've done, andpart of that is because I have
(48:41):
hunted in different places andI've moved around to try and
keep track and so they're allstories right, I don't have my
caribou antlers on the wall,it's just a little cow, but I
have some pictures.
And then, to talk about it more, I remember little bits of that
(49:03):
hunt and the experience thatbring back those memories and
show why those experiences areso valuable.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, I could tell when you were telling the
stories how you were reminiscingand you know just from what you
were telling I could tell youwere visualizing all of it and
that you had a lot of fun and itwas quite an experience.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Thanks for yours, okay, and yeah, we'll talk again
.
Absolutely have a good night,okay, bye, bye.
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