August 11, 2025 • 49 mins
The vast wilderness of Northern Alberta holds some of the most magnificent bull moose in North America, and few know this terrain better than Terance Boss. In this captivating conversation, Terance shares his journey from hunting as a 7-year-old boy alongside his father to becoming the owner of Boss Outfitting, one of Alberta's premier moose hunting operations.
What makes this discussion particularly fascinating is Terance's deep knowledge of how the landscape and wildlife have transformed over decades. He describes a remarkable shift - how moose populations have migrated from the northern bush to prairie regions, while whitetail deer have expanded dramatically northward following human-created access routes. These seismic lines and oil exploration roads created new habitat edges that fundamentally changed wildlife distribution patterns across Alberta.
Terance's approach to guiding is refreshingly client-focused. Unlike many outfitters, he exclusively offers one-on-one guiding, pairing each hunter with their own guide to maximize success. With his team boasting over 150 years of combined moose hunting experience, it's no wonder they maintain an impressive 90% success rate. The hunting experience he describes - from the canvas tent camps with electricity to the meticulous planning that goes into each day's hunt - reflects his commitment to quality.
Perhaps most telling is his philosophy toward harvested animals: "Once we shoot that moose, I work for the moose now." This respect for the animals and commitment to proper meat handling speaks volumes about the ethics driving his operation. For hunters dreaming of their first Canadian moose hunt, Terrence offers invaluable practical advice, including why you should bring your familiar rifle rather than purchasing something new for the occasion.
Whether you're planning your own moose hunting adventure or simply fascinated by the dynamics of wildlife management in Canada's northern regions, this episode provides rare insights from someone who has witnessed these ecosystems evolve firsthand. Hear the full story by visiting bossoutfitting.com or finding them on Facebook.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken meyer.
I love everything hunting, theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiestotos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
All right, welcome, and thanksfor joining us on this awesome
(00:33):
podcast, this episode here.
We're fired up and ready to go,because we are taking you to
Northern Alberta to BossOutfitting with Terrence Boss.
Okay, terrence is in NorthernAlberta.
He specializes in moose, bigmoose.
He's going to tell us all abouthow he got into guiding some of
the other animals that heguides for, and then we talk
(00:56):
about his favorite animal tohunt, and that's the Canadian
moose.
Uh, these guys his, him himselfand his crew, crew we get to
hear these guys take itseriously.
They do a great job.
If you guys want to go on theirwebsite, boss outfitting, you
can, or on facebook, bossoutfitting, to follow them there
and see the caliber of animalsthat they're taking.
(01:18):
They have guys from all overthe world.
Come and hunt with them.
He's going to tell us how thehunt works, what to expect, what
you're going to see.
All that it's very interesting.
It's a lot of fun to listen to.
Also, if you're looking to getin contact with me to come on
the podcast, suggest somebodyfor it, or just give me a shout
out, say, hey, you're wrong onthis, or I've got an idea for
(01:41):
that on this, or I've got anidea for that you can.
At huntsonoutfitting atgmailcom, give me an email or
you can follow us Hunts onOutfitting on Facebook or myself
, ken Mara, we're going to getright into it.
Terrence, I really appreciateyou taking the time to talk to
me.
I know you're a busy guy Lotsgoing on.
(02:01):
You know you've got mooseseason coming up, but I want to
talk to me.
I know you're a busy guy.
Uh, lots going on.
You know you've got mooseseason coming up, um, but I want
to talk about, uh, you knowwhere you live and then what was
your, your first start intohunting yourself?
Like, who took you?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
well, I'm sure it's.
Like most other people, it'stheir, their dad or their
grandfather.
For me, for me, it was my dad,my uncle and my dad and one of
my cousins would go out huntingevery year and, of course, moose
is what you know we all wanted.
It was an over-the-counter kindof tag and you all hope to get
a moose and it was reallyimportant that you got one
(02:37):
because the meat was a big dealright and we didn't really know
what we were doing.
Most guys, you know there'ssome people that knew what they
were doing, but we just kind ofgot lucky at the beginning and,
um, we're just hopeful to bringhome a moose.
I think I bet you I wasn'tseven, eight years old going out
there.
Oh okay, it was the greatest,greatest time of my life, like
(02:58):
as a kid man.
I look back now and think Iwish every kid got to do that,
yeah.
You know yeah just to experiencethat.
So that was your early startinto hunting, was going out with
your dad and your grandfatherhave you always been kind of up
in northern Alberta, canada,right, yeah, so my dad's family
(03:19):
is from northwest of Edmonton,about an hour.
And if you go about anotherhour northwest of Edmonton you
get into some pretty solid crownland or government land and
that's where most of the moosewere back in the day.
All the private land, the moosewere all poached out.
There was no moose in theprairie parkland country because
(03:41):
they were all basically huntedout by locals because people
needed to eat, right, it was.
It was pretty heavily hunted.
So we had to go way out to thebush and the bush is where all
the moose were, where, oddlyenough today there's more moose
in the prairies now than thereis in the far north.
But so we would travel that jeez, vehicles were crappy.
(04:01):
Then, you know, we'd drive two,three hours and and get out to
the bush and hopefully you couldget a moose.
And you know, atvs were not.
Uh, you know two-wheel drivehondas, they didn't even make a
four-wheel drive.
Then guys were riding trikesand these were the guys with
money had those machines.
Most guys would hunt on footand then pack their moose out.
So it was very limited, theaccess wasn't great.
(04:24):
But uh, you know.
I remember trying to learn tocall moose when I was a kid, and
there were so many moose thatyou didn't really have to know
how to call.
You could get lucky and stillget one, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Not like today.
So you think they've reallycaught on today.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't know that they've caught on to to to like
calling you.
Mean I don't think they'vecaught on to to that.
I think what's happened is themoose population has changed, so
there's better access, there'sbetter equipment.
Atvs uh allowed us to accessthe farthest reaches of some of
the remote territory and, uh,the hunting pressure has changed
(05:07):
things as well, as, of course,predators use the access as well
.
So in alberta is a little bitdifferent.
There's a lot of oil fieldexploration, right, and so,
until you've seen it, if youjust google it, google anywhere
in the in the wilderness inalberta, get on google maps and
look at that, and there's thesestraight lines that go for miles
and those are seismic lines.
(05:27):
So, uh, you know, in thesixties and seventies there was
a lot of oil field explorationand they just take a big old D
six dozer and put the blade upand drive and knock timber down
and then the second machinewould come and clear the trail
and then they'd run some seismicshots with some other machines.
Pretty soon you have thiswonderful trail and in the
winter you could drive it withan ATV like nobody's business.
(05:49):
It was clear as day.
So all these access pointsallowed us to enter some
territory that had never beenhunted before, and that was up
till about 2000, and in the2000s is when they kind of
stopped doing that and startedto do more helicopter, seismic
and different means of lookingfor oil.
(06:12):
So the access is is reducingnow on these cut lines, but even
today we still hunt those cutlines from the 70s, you know,
and you guys are still travelingthem trails open and stuff,
just to be able to access it andgo in yep, somebody has, either
forestry has or hunters have,or you know who knows what kind
of exploration has gone downthere.
But there's tons of access andso that's how we accessed it
(06:35):
back then and I think that alonehelped us and other predators
reduce the moose in the north.
But I'm sure there's otherreasons.
But the hunting was easy backthen.
There was lots of moose.
The limiting factor was how dowe have atvs?
Can we get in there?
Can we get a moose out?
Some guys wouldn't even huntmore than half a mile from any
road because they just couldn'tget the moose out right today
(06:58):
you go wherever you want, youget an argo right, yeah, exactly
.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then when you grew up hunting in that area too
, I mean, was there much forwhite-tailed deer in there, and
has that changed?
You think they've kind ofpushed the moose out?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Absolutely.
I don't know that.
I don't know if the white-tailschased them out, but I remember
in the early 80s when you saw awhite-tail up in that far north
country, you were shocked.
It saw a whitetail up in thatfar north country, you were
shocked.
Yeah, it's just big heavytimber, lots of willows, uh,
giant spruce and aspen trees.
But as soon as the oilcompanies came in and started
making some roads and trails,you got a lot of grass and
(07:34):
clover growing and thosewhitetails moved in and I think
it was about 83 or so.
We saw a whitetail deer andthere were some other moose
hunters that seen it.
We all kind of stopped on thisroad and we're all staring at
this deer.
Everybody was shocked to see awhitetail.
And then, I would venture to say, in about 2006 in that same
area, we were seeing like 150deer a day whitetails.
(07:59):
So the habitat changed and theyjust exploded in there.
Habitat changed and they justexploded in there and today it's
back down to.
You know, if you're going to gobomb around on those roads,
you'll see 30 deer a day is agood day.
Um, so it's, it's come backdown, but it's not really
natural like natural territoryfor white tails until they open
(08:20):
those oil fields up.
And so there's some people thatthink that because the white
tails are there, it brings inmore predators, and the
predators sometimes prefer moose, and so, uh, they do something
called alternative preymanagement.
So what they'll do is they'llgo in there and wipe out all of
the white tails.
Now wipe out all of the let's Ihate say non-n but
(08:44):
non-traditional species in thatarea.
There's always a few, but nowthere's a lot.
So they're going to wipe outall those whitetails.
They figure that's going toreduce the wolf numbers.
I'm not so sure that that'sthat's accurate, but you know
there's a lot of people in that,in that train of thought right
now.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Right, yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard, it's always
hard to say trying to managepredators and stuff.
Um, you know, I want to uh kindof get into, before we get onto
moose too much more.
It's like, how did you you'vegot your Terrence boss boss
outfitting?
Um, how did you go from yourhunting out with your
grandfather and your dad and uh,and then it just progressed
(09:25):
obviously.
And then I'm always curious howpeople start outfitting.
It's like we were talkingearlier a lot of people hunt,
not a lot of people outfit,right yeah, um, I have a pretty
interesting story.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So I mean, I loved hunting, of course, and that's
how you gotta start.
You gotta love it, yeah and uh,you think there's there's this
perception that these outfittersare getting rich shooting all
the moose.
That's not quite the case.
I mean, you got to love it, youreally do.
And so I hunted a lot when Iwas a kid and it turns out that
(10:01):
I wanted to do something withfish and wildlife.
So I decided I want to be agame warden.
So I went to school, I tookbiological sciences, renewable
resource management andcompleted that, and I was going
to be a fish and wildlifeofficer.
So I started volunteering withyou know different fish and
wildlife officers and it was fununtil I realized that all the
(10:23):
work happens in hunting season.
Right, all your big days are inhunt season.
So I had to make a decision.
Excuse me, you might have tofix that, but all the big, all
the big jobs happen in huntingseason.
So I thought, well, option B isI'm going to put out an email
and I emailed every outfitterthat had an email in Alberta,
(10:45):
and I think there was about 30outfitters that had an email
address and half of them offeredme a job because they knew I
was in school biology andrenewable resource management.
So I took the very first job Icould.
That sounded cool, right?
You don't just take the averagejob when everybody's asking you
to work.
(11:07):
I got in a helicopter and theyflew me in and dropped me in the
bush by myself in the middle ofnowhere.
Okay, yeah, if we're if we'regonna do that today, I'd be
super spooky about it, but backthen, when you're a kid, you
just let it rip right.
So they dumped me with thishelicopter.
I set this camp up and didn'tmake.
I wasn't afraid at at all.
Today I'm a little bit smarter.
We should have been a littlemore leery about that, right,
yeah, but that was my firstguiding job, wow.
(11:28):
And after that I decided youknow what I like hunting too
much, and if people are making aliving hunting and guiding
people.
When I was 19 years old, I waspretty good at calling moose and
I figured I'm as good as any ofthese guys that have been here
for 15 years and I probablywasn't as good, but I thought I
(11:52):
was.
So I thought, heck, we'll giveit a shot.
And that's kind of how I gotstarted.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow, I just went out on my own.
That's neat.
They literally, I guess youcould say threw you to the
wolves when you first gotstarted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly youmade it, you came out from it.
Was that you think that waskind of like the test thing or
that was just the way thatOutfitter was set up?
That you know, this is what youdo we drop you off in the
middle of nowhere and set upcamp.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, the truth is, when you're an outfitter and
you're taking individual, uniqueclients not everybody's the
same.
This is not whitewater rafting,yeah Right.
That outfitter and I do it toosets up to accommodate a client
or a set of clients, and he hada helicopter camp set up for
(12:40):
these guys.
So one helicopter flies inevery 10 days and, uh, I was on
the first one, hunters came onthe second one that day, and so
those hunts are set up that way.
Now you're always going by theseat of your pants because
things go wrong all the time.
You could fly in there and notfind a place to land.
Right, you could fly in thereand find out there's no water in
(13:01):
the river.
There's all kinds of things youcould find.
So you're always, in a way,you're always kind of winging it
, and and the guys that are bestat winging it are the guys that
do the best work, right, likethose are the best outfitters,
the guys that can deal with uh,problems that show up and uh, in
front of a client, you got tolook like you know what you're
(13:23):
doing and you got to not loseyour cool right, like the
river's dry.
What are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Like this is a problem.
Well, you deal with nature andanimals, the two most wild
animals, the two mostunpredictable things possible,
really.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, so throwing me to the wolves, I don't know.
I mean, I guess you could havethought of it that way, but I
thought it was the coolest thingever Getting dropped by a
helicopter and going moosehunting.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So I mean you did that.
That went well.
You realized, like I said, gamewarden, busy times, hunting
season it was definitely goingto limit the amount of time you
were out.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So you guide for a lot of things, and then you have
your trap line thing, which isreally cool.
But what?
What do you guide for?
What's your main uh specialty,I guess?
Well, I, I absolutely lovemoose.
Moose hunting is absolutely myfavorite thing, okay, yeah, yeah
, it is, it is, and it'sprobably because it's the first
thing I ever really hunted for.
Um, I think I shot a deerbefore I shot a moose.
I really think about it.
But I mean, deer, deer werenever my focus when I was young,
(14:28):
but, and even my family, a deerdoesn't feed very many people.
But secondly, I hunt bears alot and because it's an
off-season thing and if I have achoice of hunting or getting a,
let's call it a real job.
I don't want a real job, sowe're going to go bear hunting.
So bears is the second thing Ireally focused on.
(14:49):
We put a few guys through doingthat and then in the winter
which is also kind of anoff-season thing we do we hunt
wild bison.
There's some wood bison roamingaround up here in the north
that it's open for hunting and,uh, take advantage of that
situation all winter whenever wecan get out there.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, and you guys are practiced up to be able
to get those things out.
After, uh, dealing with moose,you know all fall, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Eh yeah, well, difference is the moose on.
No, there's no snow and thenthe yeah, you have water to deal
with.
Where bison is, everything'sfrozen and you can snowmobile
across something in you know 30seconds.
It takes you an hour to drivearound with an ATV, so it's a
(15:34):
whole different set of problemsat minus 30, minus 40.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know.
I'm glad you said that whatyour favorite animal to hunt was
, because I mean you guys, ifyou people go on your facebook
page and stuff boss outfittingor you guys have a really great
website, that's well done, bossoutfitting um, you guys get
massive bear, enormous, uh,moose, bison, white-tailed deer.
(16:01):
I mean, what do you say, youguys?
You had one client shoot, wasit 190?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, we got a few in the 190s over the years.
Wow, of course Alberta's not atits peak right now for size,
but they're still very, verygood genetics.
And you do run into, you know,guys shooting 190-inch
whitetails here now and then,and like the absolute truth is,
(16:27):
I didn't shoot a whitetailmyself last year and I don't
think and I mean I don't want tosound like one of those guys,
but I don't need to eat a deer,but I love hunting, so I'm going
to hunt every day whenever Ican, and if I don't see a deer
over 170, I probably won't shootit.
I would rather let them growand and become something real
big, you know.
And, uh, last year I didn'tshoot one, but I did see a
(16:49):
couple in that 175 range,probably without exaggerating
too much.
Yeah, there, there, there'ssome good deer here there is.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I mean Alberta is known for having, you know,
large, really large bucks, but Imean bear too, cause you guys
have a lot of a color phase bearthere as well.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, so that's yes, in some locations there's a lot
of colored phase bears.
So if, if I was, if I was ahunter looking for a bear hunt,
that's the questions I'd ask iswhat is your ratio of color
phase bears?
And hopefully whoever you'retalking to is going to answer
(17:29):
truthfully, and I'll tell youthat I focus on big bears.
I don't necessarily look forcolored bears, although we do
get some.
The ratio of colored bearswhere I am is about one in 20,
which I think is pretty low.
There's other areas that are,like you know, four and four and
10, 40%, um, pretty good colorratios.
The difference is a lot ofpeople hunt in those areas and
the overall size of those bearsis kind of harvested down a bit.
(17:53):
And so to get a seven and ahalf foot color phase bear out
there is is pretty tough wherein my territory to get a seven
foot bear.
It's exciting and I'm happy toget a seven foot bear, but it's
not uncommon at all.
Yeah Well, it's a regularoccurrence.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's funny you say that Cause I mean,
looking back, I follow a lot ofoutfitters and uh from
Saskatchewan, alberta, onFacebook and stuff and uh, true,
I've never I don't know if I'veever seen a really big color
face bear, seen some huge blackbears like fully black, but
color face.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You're right, they don't seem to get that big
because people are eager to uh,to take them yeah, exactly, if
you're sitting in a stand and 18bears come into your stand in
two days and there's a coloredbear that's six foot two and
only one, you're probably goingto take that bear, if you're
allowed to take two bears and asix foot two bear is a good bear
.
In a lot of places here it'skind of average-ish, yeah, but
(18:49):
you're coming here, it's aonce-in-a-lifetime hunt.
Yeah, sure you.
You take that six foot twocolor phase bear and then maybe
try for the giant for yoursecond tag and hopefully over
seven feet yeah, exactly, um,all right, so that.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So the moose hunting is your favorite, so I want to
talk about, I mean, the moosehere in new brunswick, and I
know it's different all overcanada, in the us.
I mean our moose season here is, uh, when if you're a, it's on
the draw system, the lotterysystem, and if you're a
non-resident, you have to comewith an outfitter, and our
season used to be three days,now it's five.
Uh, we hunt them in choppingsand swamps, a lot of calling,
(19:29):
you guys, it's a.
It's a bit different in alberta.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You guys have a much longer season, right yeah, the
seasons are broke up butgenerally speaking, if you
wanted to hunt moose in albertaas a resident you could start
most places september first, Ithink even in august there's a
couple seasons last few days ofaugust it'll open.
So by september 1st you canstart archery hunting in a lot
(19:53):
of places.
Um, and then there's it kind ofgraduates.
There's some units that open onseptember 7th for archery and
uh, once the season opens itusually stays open until
november 30th.
So depending on what territoryyou're in, the season can go
from september 1st to november30th.
Wow and uh, a lot of time yeah,that is uh.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So you're saying what you guide, is it what?
Roughly about 20 hunters a yearfor moose?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
yeah, I like.
I'm in the range right nowabout 20, 18 to 22.
Depends on the year and thegroup sizes that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Uh, that I know what it's like here getting ready for
a moose hunt for one.
I mean everyone's comingtogether and getting bikes and
trucks and trailers andeverything ready to go, all this
scouting and everything I meanyou doing that that's, that's a
lot.
So, uh, could you walk usthrough?
I guess when someone comes on amoose hunt with you sort of
what a typical hunt, if you canuh, it's going to look like yeah
(20:49):
, absolutely like it's from afrom a hunter's perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So, if we're starting right at the beginning, I
talked to these guys on thephone.
I talked to a few guys todayand they don't really know me
like the new guys don't know me.
Repeat clients are, they'relike buddies and they're easy to
deal with, but the new guys arenervous.
They don't know who you are.
They know they're taking achance.
Right, it's hard Like I don'twant to be in their position
choosing an outfitters not goingto be easy because you got to
(21:14):
get the right fit.
But so I talked to him a fewtimes.
We get feeling comfortable withthe situation and there's a lot
of money there at stake.
You know this could be a oncein a lifetime hunt for these
guys, so I try to make them feellike this is the right, this is
the right place, this is theright thing to do.
Um, you're gonna have a goodtime and you're gonna get you
know as close as what you paidfor as we can get, because moose
(21:36):
are still wild animals, right.
But so once we get these guyscomfortable with the situation,
uh, I'll meet them at an at atown near us, hopefully within
an hour.
Most guys drive up so they cantake the meat home.
The odd guys will fly.
Uh, flying with meat across tothe states is pretty difficult.
Flying within canada with somefrozen moose meat isn't so bad.
(21:59):
But most of my clients are outof country so they'll drive in
so they can take their meat home.
I'll meet them, we'll make suretheir licenses are right, get
them into camp.
Um, you know everybody'snervous and they're eager and
they want to go hunt and myguides are just like like a team
of horses.
They just want to go Right yeah.
And if the season's open,sometimes we'll cut them loose
(22:27):
the day before the hunt'ssupposed to start.
We'll let them go because justwe want to hunt.
That's what they're we're therefor.
Um, if the season's not open,we're all watching our watches
until the bell rings, you know.
And so everybody's off in theirown direction and each hunter
gets one guide.
I I prefer to do that.
Most guys charge more money forthat.
I just don't even offer atwo-on-one hunt.
Every guide has theirindividual hunter to deal with
and we work as a team.
We all set up, we set up ourdays together.
(22:49):
We have a group scrum at likefive o'clock in the morning.
All the guides know what's andthe hunters don't see this.
They're probably sleeping still.
We all decide where we're going, we check the wind, we know
what we're doing.
We make sure we don't run intoeach other, because if you do,
if you're running into your ownguides and you're calling each
other, you look like a bunch ofclowns.
That's not what you want that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's a good thing, it's a good point, right?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
that's something to mention and it happened, happens
all the time.
The funny part is the clientwould never know if that's
another moose or not.
But it's the right thing to dois get those hunters apart, get
them, them all, in good positionso they all have a chance at a
moose in the first morning, youknow.
So we'll head out, we'll do ourhunt in the morning and, uh, if
(23:30):
I have six hunters in the bushand they're hunting seven days,
somebody's probably going toshoot a moose that first day.
The odds are in your favor,right, cause half of your
hunters that come up just wantto shoot moose, so bad.
So the first bull they see isgoing to drop.
The other guys are going to geta little picky and let one or
two go before they get a littlenervous and they'll take one,
(23:52):
you know, or wait till a giantcomes.
So after that first day there'susually a moose on the ground.
So the text messages startflying around 11 o'clock and we
set up a plan to go pull thismoose out.
So whatever hunters want to goand help haul this moose home,
they're welcome to come.
So we'll run out maybe 5, 6ATVs, we'll clear a trail, we'll
(24:13):
get to where this moose is,we'll try to haul them out whole
at all costs because I want tokeep the meat clean to me.
Another outfitter told me thisonce years ago.
I have a lot of respect for him.
He says once we shoot thatmoose, he said I quit working
for you.
He says, like I work for themoose now right yeah, that's
good, that's very that'srespectful right.
(24:35):
I find, yeah, not always enoughrespect, you know, sometimes
with the animals that we take,and I like that a lot yeah, and
so I don't say that because someclients could take it the wrong
way, but it's, it's how wethink, right, like when that
moose is on the ground, itdoesn't.
If you got sore feet, that'sokay, you stay here, we'll deal
with it.
And that moose is getting backto camp.
(24:55):
That meat's going to be as highquality as absolutely possible,
and so we'll haul that moosehome and we get them in the tree
and, of course, if there's sixhunters, one guy gets a moose.
Most guys are high-fiving evenif they don't know the guy.
So we're all winning, right.
We always call this moose home,so we get them in the tree and
we get them skin skinned up andthat guide and that hunter get
to deal with that moose fromthere on out, and the other
(25:16):
hunters, when the, when theweather starts to cool in the
evening, head back out.
Or whenever the weather or theopportunity changes for the
calling sessions to be good,that's when we head out.
So it could be we could callall day if the weather's right,
but typically three hours in themiddle of the day are dead
water.
It's made for scouting orhaving a nap and getting ready
(25:38):
for when the moose hunting isgood, because you don't want to
stir up those moose when they'rehaving a nap.
You don't want to stir them upand and get them aware of your
presence in the middle of theday when things aren't going to
happen for you.
So we try to stay out of thegood territory in the middle of
the day.
So, uh, that's kind of a,that's kind of a day's hunting
yeah, it's same here.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I guess the afternoons are definitely a lot
slower and you know, just kindof just go, but don't be, like
you said, trying to rile them upat that time.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well, it's not that we don't hunt the evening.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We do, I meant the afternoon.
Sorry, yeah, just the afternoon.
Yeah, the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're going to have someactivity, and you've got to
remember, guys are travelingfrom a long ways, so sometimes
when you sit down at 1130 andit's hot, they want to go
hunting.
So sometimes you got to takethem on a tour just to keep them
busy.
But the truth, the truth isit's extremely rare, um, to get
a moose, but you know, between11 and 3, uh, it does happen and
(26:40):
it's possible.
So it's okay to go.
Look, just stay out of yourprime area, like go to some area
that it's not something youplan on hunting that evening,
because you'll probably just,you know, disturb it too much
right, right, um, you know, Ilike that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You said that too.
It's one guide, one hunter.
You don't even offer anythingdifferent.
Because I mean, you see, I seethat a lot.
When, uh, you know you'relooking at different hunts and
all that, no matter what the biggame species, they'll say, um,
oh well, it's, you know, it'stwo hunters per guide or it's
you know this much more, for onehunter, one guide.
But I like that it should be.
When you're hunting somethingespecially like that, like a
(27:14):
moose, you know you want to havejust one-on-one yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
It's always an upcharge to get your own guide
and stuff with most places, yeah, but I think my objective is
that everybody gets to shoot ata move right, and if, if I gotta
, if I gotta suck up a littlebit of the expense and have an
extra guide kicking around ortwo, as opposed to other camps.
That's what I'm going to do andI want to see I I want to see
(27:42):
100.
I know it's not always, youknow you can't expect to have
100 success every year, but man,we're running some of the camps
at 90.
That's for a long time, yep.
So what happens, though?
And part there's a lot ofreasons.
I mean, we have I have fiveguides that have been guiding
for me since day one, since theday I started, and, uh, that
(28:06):
gives you over a hundred andsome years of moose hunting
experience, when the four of usare 150 years of experience when
five of us are sitting around afire, like.
So that's part of it, butanother part of it is when that
first hunter tags out and thatmoose is dealt with and it's
under control, that guy, that'skind of freed up, he's going to
(28:26):
help the other guys, cause Idon't know if you've had this
experience.
But if you go and call a mooseand everything's going great,
that's wonderful, you're awinner.
But if you go out and there'smoose there and you're calling
and you're failing and they'rejust not answering, you start to
lose your confidence, right,and it's just sometimes just to
get another guide with you tosay, hey, just, you got this, it
(28:48):
sounds good, everything you'redoing is right, you're just
having bad days.
Sometimes you need that backup,and so whoever's struggling the
most which could be anybody itcould be the most veteran moose
hunting guide out there it couldbe struggling and it's like
it's in your head and you startto give up on your moose sets
too early and you walk away frommoose that you shouldn't be
walking away from.
To get that extra guide to comewith you, just for that extra
(29:11):
level of confidence to know thatyou're doing it right.
That's shooting moose, that'sgoing to change your game.
Just to have that extra guy, ohyeah, big time, and that's what
matters.
I tell my new guys I'm likethere's one thing you need to
know when you're calling moosewhen you sit down, you got to
know your wind and you got tomake sure it's going away from
the moose Right.
(29:31):
Number two you have to believehe.
You're going to walk away fromthat moose every time You're
going to give up.
You have to believe they hearyou and that's it's the truth.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, let me, you know, that's a great way to put
it and it's it's awesome to heartoo that you have the same guys
I mean as an outfitter, uh,people that have repeat clients.
They come back and see the sameoutfitters.
That shows, you know, that'sgood, right, you don't have a
high turnover and, um, yeah,it's probably handy too that you
guys know how each other worksand what everyone's like and
stuff and uh, just helps thingsgo, you know, smoother when
(30:09):
you're dealing, like I said,with you know, wilderness and
animals, the weather, uh guyscoming, you know, do you
recommend bringing their ownguns, is it?
Do you find it's a big deal tobring it across the border?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Oh, border crossing is nothing, it's so simple.
As long as you're not a felonor something, and if you can
cross the border under regularcircumstances, you'll have no
problems bringing a firearm in.
So anywhere in Canada we're allunder the same law.
You can bring a firearm in witha firearm declarations form as
(30:44):
a matter of fact I'm sure itcould change at any time, so a
guy has to really look at thecurrent regulations.
But you can bring four firearmsin every time you come.
So a shotgun, two rifles, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So guys coming in, they're talking to you on the
phone.
You know I'm curious like, allright, I've got whatever gun.
I'm thinking about buying a newgun for this occasion.
You know, what should I get?
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Oh man, I'm glad you asked that question.
Maybe we talked about thisbefore.
But my recommendation on a newrifle is don't do it, don't get
a new rifle.
Yeah, I know you want to Sure,make an excuse.
Go buy a rifle, tell, telleverybody around you you need a
new rifle.
That's cool.
But that's not my advice.
You can even blame it on me.
Go buy a 338, but bring therifle that you shoot every day.
(31:31):
Because here's what happensbring a.
I don't care if it's a 270, a30 out, six, whatever.
Any 30 caliber is fine.
Most of our moose are under 50yards.
Some are up to 150, which ispretty close.
The problem is a moose is goingto come in there to 20 yards.
He's going to poke his headaround the tree and he's going
to give you about a four inchsquare to shoot through.
You know he's legal, you knowit's a safe shot.
(31:53):
And here you are and you'regoing to miss and shoot a big
poplar tree or something.
Miss and shoot a big poplartree or something and guys get
nervous and they start shakingand then they need to reload and
they can't find their safety.
So if you don't have, if youhave, a new rifle I need.
I don't want that.
I want you to feel verycomfortable with what you're
shooting.
I want you to feel naturalabout it.
I know it sounds funny when Isay, hey, I don't want you to
(32:15):
miss a 20-yard shot, but ithappens often.
Oh, yeah, yeah, a moose comescharging in and they're snot
blowing and trees moving, andthen you see one of his eyes and
like a 50 inch rack poking outand when he takes two steps
you're gonna have a shot, butthat's it.
That's the only thing you'regetting.
And here you are with a newrifle and you forgot your safety
on, or you forgot to put yourclip in.
(32:36):
Yeah, or whatever.
If I could tell you stories,that's a whole other podcast.
We could talk about how manyguys forget their bullets
because they have a clip now, orwhatever.
Yeah, bring, every one of myguys has a story.
Hey, I forgot my bullets when amoose is standing there.
Every guide you know.
So bring the rifle that youshoot deer with, maybe not a
(32:58):
.243.
That might be a little small,it's doable and it's legal.
But you know, .270, .30-06, 7mmcaliber doesn't really matter,
just be able to hit what you'reshooting at.
And secondly, yeah, shotplacement Make sure you can hit
what you're shooting.
Make sure you're comfortablereloading your safety, a place
(33:20):
that makes sure you can hitwhere you're shooting.
Make sure you're comfortablereloading your safety.
And secondly, if a wolf walksout at 250 yards, 300 yards,
we're allowed to hunt wolves allthe time, like except at night.
You know the can't shoot atnight rule.
But um, you're gonna have totry.
He's not coming closer.
So kind of know where you'regonna shooting, have to try,
he's not coming closer.
So kind of know where you'regoing to shoot out to 300 yards,
(33:42):
you know.
And if a wolf walks out, atleast you won't regret giving it
a shot.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Well, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
I mean, what a cherry on top.
If you do get a moose, you knowto have a nice wolf.
What is the wolf situation outthere?
I mean, you hear all this stuff.
What's going on in the US withthe wolves seems to be getting a
little out of control.
How do you find it is there inmoose country?
I mean, they've always beenthere, the wolves, so is the
(34:09):
population more in check?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh man, you're going to hear a different story from
every person you talk to, but Ithink the way it's happening
right now is some units, someareas, are getting overrun with
wolves and, yes, it couldpossibly be from the whitetails
supplementing their survivalthat weren't there before and
(34:36):
that's the alternative prey deal.
But wolves are very prolific ina lot of areas.
Right now in Alberta we have acaribou problem as well, so the
government's taking measures toreduce wolf populations wherever
there's caribou, because thecaribou are basically the brink
of extinction.
Some of the herds and a lot ofpeople blame it on bad habitat
(34:57):
or habitat management, but thetruth of the matter is the last
caribou will be eaten by a wolf.
It won't be killed by loggingequipment.
So to keep the predators undercontrol is a good idea, and back
in the 60s, 70s, 80s, wolveswere worth a good dollar, so
(35:17):
trappers were really putting ina lot of effort.
Well, right now a wolf is $ two, three hundred bucks on the fur
market, so the trappers aren'treally throwing a lot of time
after those.
With fuel expenses being at awell, I hate to say it's
expensive at a dollar 13 a liter.
I don't know what you guys arepaying, uh, quite a bit more.
I saw a dollar 13 today and Ithought, man, that's still high,
(35:41):
but you feel your snow?
Yeah, and that's pretty good asopposed to the last two years.
Right, yeah, but nobody'skilling wolves, because it
there's no money in it and usedto be a very, you know, viable
industry.
So it's basically we're gettinga few here and there, so the
wolf population is very strongin a lot of locations.
(36:02):
Um, this is part of the reason.
In the prairies in southernalberta, let's say, if you look
at a map from red deer, all reddeer district, all the way north
to edmonton, there's piles ofmoose because there's no wolves.
Yeah, right, very few.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, there's such an , you know, top apex predator
that are unbelievably good atwhat they do, and yeah, you just
hear about them, you know,putting a beating on some areas.
So yeah, I was just kind ofwondering about that, because I,
you know, I know it's not a newthing to Alberta though, either
, so wasn't sure if it was alittle better rather than them
(36:37):
being introduced.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, the population fluctuates with the ungulate
population.
So you got to decide what youlike, because the environment
here has been changed right.
I mean, there's oil field,roads, there's logging I'm sure
(37:00):
you have.
There's nothing really naturalabout where you are there either
.
And if you decide that you wantyour moose population to be a
little bit better or enhanced,you can augment and manipulate
the situation to allow moremoose on the landscape.
You can just reduce wolf wolfnumbers, reduce the cow harvest
(37:23):
and your moose population willrise quickly.
So you have to decide what youwant and I think right now,
knowing that wolves exist ispretty important to a lot of
people that don't hunt.
And there's a lot of wolves outthere, and there's a lot of
bears out there, and there's alot of bears out there.
There's more bears than you canpossibly imagine.
Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, I've seen videos of people doing baits in
Alberta, you know, and there'sjust there's bears.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
There's like 20 bears surrounding them so I keep real
good statistics of my bearbaits, when they're hit, how
they're hit, how much bait we'reusing very, very uh organized
big chart.
There's a big chart in my guideshack on the wall.
The hunters don't really get tosee it but we we mark it all
down and and I'm telling you theaverage bear bait uh, on a good
(38:11):
night of sightings we'll seesix to nine bears, different
bears, the best bait this yearthere was 19 or 20 that come
into the guy which could be amistake, like he could have
counted one a couple times.
But if a guy walks into campand says he saw 72 bears, you
know you got to take that with agrain of salt.
(38:31):
But if a guy walks in and saysI saw 11 bears, this one's
missing an ear, this one's got alamp, this one's got three cubs
right and they kind of got ahandle on it.
I'd record that.
And it's six bears to a baitevery night.
That's kind of the average.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, that's a lot, though.
I mean all your different baitsand areas.
I mean that and areas, I meanthat's uh, that's a lot of bear,
it's a lot of mouths to feedtons, tons of bears.
Yeah, uh, when, when hunterscome into the moose camp, what
uh like, do you have themstaying out in tents?
You're not doing the helicopterthing like how, how's it set up
(39:08):
?
I guess what's camp like?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
so I haven't done a helicopter hunt in a while.
That was just the first one Iever did like working for a guy.
But how my camps are right nowis I have a mobile camp.
I have all canvas tents, 14 by16s, and a couple of hunters
stay in each one, or a group ofhunters might be two, might be
four hunters in a group kind ofstay together Because you want
(39:33):
to stay with your buddies andcarry on and part and whatever
and make fun of each other.
Right, it's part of the wholedeal.
And so we we put all the groupstogether and and individuals
are get a lot of husbands andwives.
They get their own tent andwe'll try, we'll try to put it
off a little ways so they don'thave to listen to the Kai and
the boys getting rowdy of thekai and the boys getting rowdy
(39:57):
whatever they're doing.
And then we have a separatecook tent.
It's a larger tent.
It can accommodate probably 15people eating at any given time,
so that's where all the food isprepared.
That's kind of a social area.
And then the guides stay intheir own tent off in the other
direction.
Somewhere we have wire.
They call their brewery cable.
You can hang lights from it andstuff.
It runs through every tent.
(40:18):
It runs off the generator, soevery tent's got a plug in it
for nowadays, phone charging wenever.
We never had Google maps ornothing when we started, but we
always had power and now we cancharge all of our gear.
So that's kind of how the campis set up.
Typically, we can drive to campon good weather, and the reason
(40:39):
I want that is so if we have togo to town we have to take a
moose to a butcher because it'scold, too warm.
They have to cool it down.
Then at least we can get out ofthere, take care of that moose
and have it processed properly,rather than hang in a tree when
it's too warm.
That's sort of how the camp'sset up.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Right, yeah.
So I mean they're getting areally cool experience.
I mean especially people thatare coming from areas way warm
Say someone's coming fromFlorida or something to be out
there in the northern Albertabush and moose camp.
I mean, what a you know, it'samazing, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well, you got to remember these guys sit at home.
They've deer hunted florida,let's say little tiny 60 pound
whitetails, you know.
And so they come up here andjust to see a whitetail doe
that's 190 pounds they'reshocked.
They're like that's got to be abuck without antlers.
I'm like no, that's just a bigold fat doe.
She's been eating out of agreenery somewhere.
But for them to come and dothis, you got to remember
(41:38):
they've been thinking about thistheir whole life.
Right, a moose hunt is?
I don't know, I'm sure there'ssomething in Canada the hunters
here dream about doing.
Maybe go to Africa.
But you think about it and youdream about shooting moose your
whole life, because you'vewatched it on TV and you know
what it is for me life, becauseyou watch it on tv and you know
what it is for me I.
(41:58):
I used to dream about bassfishing.
I never saw a bass until I was30 years old right and so you
watch bill dance and all theseguys fishing.
You're like I gotta catch a bass.
So you go to florida and thefirst bass I caught was like
nine and a half pounds.
I had no idea.
It was even big.
I had no clue.
And so these guys come tocanada and they shoot a moose
with four points, or they shoota moose that's 50 inches wide.
Most guys are ecstatic withanything, because it's just this
(42:20):
experience of a lifetime andthey may never get to do it
again, right?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
So very cool.
Yeah Well, I was going to asktoo.
I mean it must be amazing.
I'm sure you have a lot of guyscome in that have have never
seen a moose before, and forsomeone that's never seen a
moose before and for someonethat's never seen a moose in
person before, I mean they are,they look like a I don't know
dinosaur or something.
They're huge.
They look like out of thisworld.
The first time you you see oneup close and personal, it's
amazing yeah, that big nose onthem.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And even the more shocking thing is, and why
people miss them is when thatmoose you can't see that moose
till he's 30 yards away usually,and when he pops out of 20
yards and the trees are moving.
This is why guys miss, likeI've had guys miss at 10 yards
with a rifle.
You know they're shaking andthe moose is there and they
can't.
You know they're just losing itand then that's cool, whatever.
(43:09):
I mean, it's part of part ofthe excitement of the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I you know well know, well, yeah, exactly, we just
tried.
So yeah, I mean it, it, thepeople I find too that haven't
been around them.
You know, I've still find itamazing how something that big,
with you know, sometimes a greatbig rack on them can just
barrel through the woods Likeyou so quick.
It's unreal.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Oh, and not make a sound and not make a noise, like
I tell my guides.
I tell my guides, if you hear astick break when you're calling
, it could be nothing.
If you hear two sticks thatbreak in the same direction,
chances are a moose is breakingthose on purpose, like two or
three or four in one direction.
(43:51):
Okay, this moose is actuallyresponding to your call.
They don't always grunt,because when they do, the wolves
show up right or whatever.
There's predators out there thatare listening for them, just
like we are.
And so when you hear that moosecoming and they poke their head
out at 20 yards, but you heardthree sticks break 500 yards
back like that shocks me that a50-inch rack won't break a stick
(44:15):
all the way in yeah, right,yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's amazing how they do it and, um, yeah, like I
said, people that have justnever seen a moose in person
before must be amazing.
But I mean, I'm sure you haveguys from all over that come
like a lot of stuff therethey've probably never seen like
even.
Uh, do you guys see many muledeer in that area?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, southern Alberta is actually a real
stronghold still for mule deer.
Peace country puts out somereally good ones.
Um, the biggest mule deer inthe world came from Alberta.
I don't know if I don't know ifmany people really pay
attention to that, but just westof Edmonton, here a couple, a
couple hours, 200 kilometers,uh5 inches that deer was, yeah,
(44:59):
and I don't know if it'll everbe beat.
But the genetics of thegenetics of those mule deer that
live up in that, in thatessentially hilly moose country,
yeah, are just great genetics.
Not so many like the mule deer.
Population has shifted again.
It's more, uh, the best muledeer hunt is still in the
(45:19):
prairies.
Uh, and the peace river country.
Peace river is a bigagricultural area and there's
still some great mule deer there.
Um, but swan hill slave lakevalley view used to have great
moose hunting and great muledeer hunting and now it just
seems to be moose and whitetails.
The mule deer are at a minimumnow.
Not sure why.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Not sure why.
And in your area too, I mean,do you guys have a lot of elk
moving around there?
Are there more agricultureareas?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, so an elk is a grazer, so they're going to need
something on the ground where amule deer is both browser, more
so right, and a moose is allbrowser.
So when you're looking for elkyou need to find some decent
grass.
And when the snow gets threefeet deep and those elk are
struggling, they really love tofind the guy with the best bales
(46:14):
in the country and conquer downin his yard.
So there's, if it wasn't forfarmers being in that peace
country, those elk wouldstruggle and uh, even right now
there's like almost a damagecontrol hunt happening in peace
river.
I looked at the tag this morningand I think there's got to be
(46:35):
two or three thousand antlerlesstags in some of those units for
cows.
Really, yeah, and like it's nota very high success hunt.
Don't get like they have togive that many tags because
we're hunting private land.
You can't always get access.
The elk are always on two orthree different farmers in fe
(46:55):
and maybe that farmer will letyou hunt, maybe not.
So unless you really do yourresearch in advance, you're not
going to be successful.
So when they give out 2,000tags, I don't really know what
the success rate is, but it'snot 100, I'll tell you that I'd
venture to say it's closer to 30or 40%, if that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Okay, wow yeah.
Definitely harder than peoplewould expect.
I'd venture to say it's closerto 30 or 40% if that.
Okay, wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Definitely harder than people would expect.
Yeah, it's not shooting fish inthe barrel.
Like I say, though, thelimiting factor is getting
access to the land that the elkare feeding on.
There could be 300, 400 elkhitting somebody's bales, and
it's not like that as much todaybecause they are trying to
reduce the numbers, because theyare doing so much damage, um,
basically, to the hay andwhatnot in the winter.
Yeah, um, you know, I've seengroups recently of you know 90
(47:45):
in the winter that's it I'm surethere's bigger ones, but yeah,
yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
I mean they're decent sized animal too.
Um, it's all interesting justlearning about different areas.
You know the hunting and theanimals and kind of what the
situation is there.
Uh, yeah, terence, I mean Ican't thank you enough for
coming on the podcast.
Hope to have you on again.
Uh, really interesting talkingabout.
Uh, you know, especially, we'vegot moose season around the
corner for most people in thecountry.
(48:11):
Um, yep, so said, if peoplewant to get a hold of you,
what's the best way?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Well, my website is bossoutfittingcom.
It hasn't changed in a lot ofyears.
It's been there.
If you get on my website youcan find my phone number.
I have a reasonably goodFacebook presence.
I'm not super good at thesocial media, but I try to put
some stuff out there that Ithink is pretty cool.
(48:38):
But the best thing to do is geton that website and check it
out, and, man, I'd much rathertalk about hunting than work.
So anytime we can do that, I'mhappy.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, Um, yeah, I mean, like I said, your website
boss outfitting.
Uh, I found it.
It was easy to navigate and youhave great pictures and what
you offer and everything, and itwas well put together, like I
said, very easy to use.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I got a pretty good designer.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
She's been doing websites since I was 19 years
old.
I think she did that website.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
And evolved it right.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, she's been around forever, that's pretty
neat Good deal.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Well, like I said, I'm sure I'll be talking to you
again soon and I can't wait tosee some pictures and wish you
all the success this upcomingseason.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Right on.
We'll keep in touch, ken.
Thanks for having me All rightthanks.
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken meyer.
I love everything hunting, theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiestotos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
All right, welcome, and thanksfor joining us on this awesome
(00:33):
podcast, this episode here.
We're fired up and ready to go,because we are taking you to
Northern Alberta to BossOutfitting with Terrence Boss.
Okay, terrence is in NorthernAlberta.
He specializes in moose, bigmoose.
He's going to tell us all abouthow he got into guiding some of
the other animals that heguides for, and then we talk
(00:56):
about his favorite animal tohunt, and that's the Canadian
moose.
Uh, these guys his, him himselfand his crew, crew we get to
hear these guys take itseriously.
They do a great job.
If you guys want to go on theirwebsite, boss outfitting, you
can, or on facebook, bossoutfitting, to follow them there
and see the caliber of animalsthat they're taking.
(01:18):
They have guys from all overthe world.
Come and hunt with them.
He's going to tell us how thehunt works, what to expect, what
you're going to see.
All that it's very interesting.
It's a lot of fun to listen to.
Also, if you're looking to getin contact with me to come on
the podcast, suggest somebodyfor it, or just give me a shout
out, say, hey, you're wrong onthis, or I've got an idea for
(01:41):
that on this, or I've got anidea for that you can.
At huntsonoutfitting atgmailcom, give me an email or
you can follow us Hunts onOutfitting on Facebook or myself
, ken Mara, we're going to getright into it.
Terrence, I really appreciateyou taking the time to talk to
me.
I know you're a busy guy Lotsgoing on.
(02:01):
You know you've got mooseseason coming up, but I want to
talk to me.
I know you're a busy guy.
Uh, lots going on.
You know you've got mooseseason coming up, um, but I want
to talk about, uh, you knowwhere you live and then what was
your, your first start intohunting yourself?
Like, who took you?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
well, I'm sure it's.
Like most other people, it'stheir, their dad or their
grandfather.
For me, for me, it was my dad,my uncle and my dad and one of
my cousins would go out huntingevery year and, of course, moose
is what you know we all wanted.
It was an over-the-counter kindof tag and you all hope to get
a moose and it was reallyimportant that you got one
(02:37):
because the meat was a big dealright and we didn't really know
what we were doing.
Most guys, you know there'ssome people that knew what they
were doing, but we just kind ofgot lucky at the beginning and,
um, we're just hopeful to bringhome a moose.
I think I bet you I wasn'tseven, eight years old going out
there.
Oh okay, it was the greatest,greatest time of my life, like
(02:58):
as a kid man.
I look back now and think Iwish every kid got to do that,
yeah.
You know yeah just to experiencethat.
So that was your early startinto hunting, was going out with
your dad and your grandfatherhave you always been kind of up
in northern Alberta, canada,right, yeah, so my dad's family
(03:19):
is from northwest of Edmonton,about an hour.
And if you go about anotherhour northwest of Edmonton you
get into some pretty solid crownland or government land and
that's where most of the moosewere back in the day.
All the private land, the moosewere all poached out.
There was no moose in theprairie parkland country because
(03:41):
they were all basically huntedout by locals because people
needed to eat, right, it was.
It was pretty heavily hunted.
So we had to go way out to thebush and the bush is where all
the moose were, where, oddlyenough today there's more moose
in the prairies now than thereis in the far north.
But so we would travel that jeez, vehicles were crappy.
(04:01):
Then, you know, we'd drive two,three hours and and get out to
the bush and hopefully you couldget a moose.
And you know, atvs were not.
Uh, you know two-wheel drivehondas, they didn't even make a
four-wheel drive.
Then guys were riding trikesand these were the guys with
money had those machines.
Most guys would hunt on footand then pack their moose out.
So it was very limited, theaccess wasn't great.
(04:24):
But uh, you know.
I remember trying to learn tocall moose when I was a kid, and
there were so many moose thatyou didn't really have to know
how to call.
You could get lucky and stillget one, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Not like today.
So you think they've reallycaught on today.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't know that they've caught on to to to like
calling you.
Mean I don't think they'vecaught on to to that.
I think what's happened is themoose population has changed, so
there's better access, there'sbetter equipment.
Atvs uh allowed us to accessthe farthest reaches of some of
the remote territory and, uh,the hunting pressure has changed
(05:07):
things as well, as, of course,predators use the access as well
.
So in alberta is a little bitdifferent.
There's a lot of oil fieldexploration, right, and so,
until you've seen it, if youjust google it, google anywhere
in the in the wilderness inalberta, get on google maps and
look at that, and there's thesestraight lines that go for miles
and those are seismic lines.
(05:27):
So, uh, you know, in thesixties and seventies there was
a lot of oil field explorationand they just take a big old D
six dozer and put the blade upand drive and knock timber down
and then the second machinewould come and clear the trail
and then they'd run some seismicshots with some other machines.
Pretty soon you have thiswonderful trail and in the
winter you could drive it withan ATV like nobody's business.
(05:49):
It was clear as day.
So all these access pointsallowed us to enter some
territory that had never beenhunted before, and that was up
till about 2000, and in the2000s is when they kind of
stopped doing that and startedto do more helicopter, seismic
and different means of lookingfor oil.
(06:12):
So the access is is reducingnow on these cut lines, but even
today we still hunt those cutlines from the 70s, you know,
and you guys are still travelingthem trails open and stuff,
just to be able to access it andgo in yep, somebody has, either
forestry has or hunters have,or you know who knows what kind
of exploration has gone downthere.
But there's tons of access andso that's how we accessed it
(06:35):
back then and I think that alonehelped us and other predators
reduce the moose in the north.
But I'm sure there's otherreasons.
But the hunting was easy backthen.
There was lots of moose.
The limiting factor was how dowe have atvs?
Can we get in there?
Can we get a moose out?
Some guys wouldn't even huntmore than half a mile from any
road because they just couldn'tget the moose out right today
(06:58):
you go wherever you want, youget an argo right, yeah, exactly
.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then when you grew up hunting in that area too
, I mean, was there much forwhite-tailed deer in there, and
has that changed?
You think they've kind ofpushed the moose out?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Absolutely.
I don't know that.
I don't know if the white-tailschased them out, but I remember
in the early 80s when you saw awhite-tail up in that far north
country, you were shocked.
It saw a whitetail up in thatfar north country, you were
shocked.
Yeah, it's just big heavytimber, lots of willows, uh,
giant spruce and aspen trees.
But as soon as the oilcompanies came in and started
making some roads and trails,you got a lot of grass and
(07:34):
clover growing and thosewhitetails moved in and I think
it was about 83 or so.
We saw a whitetail deer andthere were some other moose
hunters that seen it.
We all kind of stopped on thisroad and we're all staring at
this deer.
Everybody was shocked to see awhitetail.
And then, I would venture to say, in about 2006 in that same
area, we were seeing like 150deer a day whitetails.
(07:59):
So the habitat changed and theyjust exploded in there.
Habitat changed and they justexploded in there and today it's
back down to.
You know, if you're going to gobomb around on those roads,
you'll see 30 deer a day is agood day.
Um, so it's, it's come backdown, but it's not really
natural like natural territoryfor white tails until they open
(08:20):
those oil fields up.
And so there's some people thatthink that because the white
tails are there, it brings inmore predators, and the
predators sometimes prefer moose, and so, uh, they do something
called alternative preymanagement.
So what they'll do is they'llgo in there and wipe out all of
the white tails.
Now wipe out all of the let's Ihate say non-n but
(08:44):
non-traditional species in thatarea.
There's always a few, but nowthere's a lot.
So they're going to wipe outall those whitetails.
They figure that's going toreduce the wolf numbers.
I'm not so sure that that'sthat's accurate, but you know
there's a lot of people in that,in that train of thought right
now.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Right, yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard, it's always
hard to say trying to managepredators and stuff.
Um, you know, I want to uh kindof get into, before we get onto
moose too much more.
It's like, how did you you'vegot your Terrence boss boss
outfitting?
Um, how did you go from yourhunting out with your
grandfather and your dad and uh,and then it just progressed
(09:25):
obviously.
And then I'm always curious howpeople start outfitting.
It's like we were talkingearlier a lot of people hunt,
not a lot of people outfit,right yeah, um, I have a pretty
interesting story.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So I mean, I loved hunting, of course, and that's
how you gotta start.
You gotta love it, yeah and uh,you think there's there's this
perception that these outfittersare getting rich shooting all
the moose.
That's not quite the case.
I mean, you got to love it, youreally do.
And so I hunted a lot when Iwas a kid and it turns out that
(10:01):
I wanted to do something withfish and wildlife.
So I decided I want to be agame warden.
So I went to school, I tookbiological sciences, renewable
resource management andcompleted that, and I was going
to be a fish and wildlifeofficer.
So I started volunteering withyou know different fish and
wildlife officers and it was fununtil I realized that all the
(10:23):
work happens in hunting season.
Right, all your big days are inhunt season.
So I had to make a decision.
Excuse me, you might have tofix that, but all the big, all
the big jobs happen in huntingseason.
So I thought, well, option B isI'm going to put out an email
and I emailed every outfitterthat had an email in Alberta,
(10:45):
and I think there was about 30outfitters that had an email
address and half of them offeredme a job because they knew I
was in school biology andrenewable resource management.
So I took the very first job Icould.
That sounded cool, right?
You don't just take the averagejob when everybody's asking you
to work.
(11:07):
I got in a helicopter and theyflew me in and dropped me in the
bush by myself in the middle ofnowhere.
Okay, yeah, if we're if we'regonna do that today, I'd be
super spooky about it, but backthen, when you're a kid, you
just let it rip right.
So they dumped me with thishelicopter.
I set this camp up and didn'tmake.
I wasn't afraid at at all.
Today I'm a little bit smarter.
We should have been a littlemore leery about that, right,
yeah, but that was my firstguiding job, wow.
(11:28):
And after that I decided youknow what I like hunting too
much, and if people are making aliving hunting and guiding
people.
When I was 19 years old, I waspretty good at calling moose and
I figured I'm as good as any ofthese guys that have been here
for 15 years and I probablywasn't as good, but I thought I
(11:52):
was.
So I thought, heck, we'll giveit a shot.
And that's kind of how I gotstarted.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow, I just went out on my own.
That's neat.
They literally, I guess youcould say threw you to the
wolves when you first gotstarted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly youmade it, you came out from it.
Was that you think that waskind of like the test thing or
that was just the way thatOutfitter was set up?
That you know, this is what youdo we drop you off in the
middle of nowhere and set upcamp.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, the truth is, when you're an outfitter and
you're taking individual, uniqueclients not everybody's the
same.
This is not whitewater rafting,yeah Right.
That outfitter and I do it toosets up to accommodate a client
or a set of clients, and he hada helicopter camp set up for
(12:40):
these guys.
So one helicopter flies inevery 10 days and, uh, I was on
the first one, hunters came onthe second one that day, and so
those hunts are set up that way.
Now you're always going by theseat of your pants because
things go wrong all the time.
You could fly in there and notfind a place to land.
Right, you could fly in thereand find out there's no water in
(13:01):
the river.
There's all kinds of things youcould find.
So you're always, in a way,you're always kind of winging it
, and and the guys that are bestat winging it are the guys that
do the best work, right, likethose are the best outfitters,
the guys that can deal with uh,problems that show up and uh, in
front of a client, you got tolook like you know what you're
(13:23):
doing and you got to not loseyour cool right, like the
river's dry.
What are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Like this is a problem.
Well, you deal with nature andanimals, the two most wild
animals, the two mostunpredictable things possible,
really.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, so throwing me to the wolves, I don't know.
I mean, I guess you could havethought of it that way, but I
thought it was the coolest thingever Getting dropped by a
helicopter and going moosehunting.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So I mean you did that.
That went well.
You realized, like I said, gamewarden, busy times, hunting
season it was definitely goingto limit the amount of time you
were out.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So you guide for a lot of things, and then you have
your trap line thing, which isreally cool.
But what?
What do you guide for?
What's your main uh specialty,I guess?
Well, I, I absolutely lovemoose.
Moose hunting is absolutely myfavorite thing, okay, yeah, yeah
, it is, it is, and it'sprobably because it's the first
thing I ever really hunted for.
Um, I think I shot a deerbefore I shot a moose.
I really think about it.
But I mean, deer, deer werenever my focus when I was young,
(14:28):
but, and even my family, a deerdoesn't feed very many people.
But secondly, I hunt bears alot and because it's an
off-season thing and if I have achoice of hunting or getting a,
let's call it a real job.
I don't want a real job, sowe're going to go bear hunting.
So bears is the second thing Ireally focused on.
(14:49):
We put a few guys through doingthat and then in the winter
which is also kind of anoff-season thing we do we hunt
wild bison.
There's some wood bison roamingaround up here in the north
that it's open for hunting and,uh, take advantage of that
situation all winter whenever wecan get out there.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, and you guys are practiced up to be able
to get those things out.
After, uh, dealing with moose,you know all fall, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Eh yeah, well, difference is the moose on.
No, there's no snow and thenthe yeah, you have water to deal
with.
Where bison is, everything'sfrozen and you can snowmobile
across something in you know 30seconds.
It takes you an hour to drivearound with an ATV, so it's a
(15:34):
whole different set of problemsat minus 30, minus 40.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know.
I'm glad you said that whatyour favorite animal to hunt was
, because I mean you guys, ifyou people go on your facebook
page and stuff boss outfittingor you guys have a really great
website, that's well done, bossoutfitting um, you guys get
massive bear, enormous, uh,moose, bison, white-tailed deer.
(16:01):
I mean, what do you say, youguys?
You had one client shoot, wasit 190?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, we got a few in the 190s over the years.
Wow, of course Alberta's not atits peak right now for size,
but they're still very, verygood genetics.
And you do run into, you know,guys shooting 190-inch
whitetails here now and then,and like the absolute truth is,
(16:27):
I didn't shoot a whitetailmyself last year and I don't
think and I mean I don't want tosound like one of those guys,
but I don't need to eat a deer,but I love hunting, so I'm going
to hunt every day whenever Ican, and if I don't see a deer
over 170, I probably won't shootit.
I would rather let them growand and become something real
big, you know.
And, uh, last year I didn'tshoot one, but I did see a
(16:49):
couple in that 175 range,probably without exaggerating
too much.
Yeah, there, there, there'ssome good deer here there is.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I mean Alberta is known for having, you know,
large, really large bucks, but Imean bear too, cause you guys
have a lot of a color phase bearthere as well.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, so that's yes, in some locations there's a lot
of colored phase bears.
So if, if I was, if I was ahunter looking for a bear hunt,
that's the questions I'd ask iswhat is your ratio of color
phase bears?
And hopefully whoever you'retalking to is going to answer
(17:29):
truthfully, and I'll tell youthat I focus on big bears.
I don't necessarily look forcolored bears, although we do
get some.
The ratio of colored bearswhere I am is about one in 20,
which I think is pretty low.
There's other areas that are,like you know, four and four and
10, 40%, um, pretty good colorratios.
The difference is a lot ofpeople hunt in those areas and
the overall size of those bearsis kind of harvested down a bit.
(17:53):
And so to get a seven and ahalf foot color phase bear out
there is is pretty tough wherein my territory to get a seven
foot bear.
It's exciting and I'm happy toget a seven foot bear, but it's
not uncommon at all.
Yeah Well, it's a regularoccurrence.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's funny you say that Cause I mean,
looking back, I follow a lot ofoutfitters and uh from
Saskatchewan, alberta, onFacebook and stuff and uh, true,
I've never I don't know if I'veever seen a really big color
face bear, seen some huge blackbears like fully black, but
color face.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You're right, they don't seem to get that big
because people are eager to uh,to take them yeah, exactly, if
you're sitting in a stand and 18bears come into your stand in
two days and there's a coloredbear that's six foot two and
only one, you're probably goingto take that bear, if you're
allowed to take two bears and asix foot two bear is a good bear
.
In a lot of places here it'skind of average-ish, yeah, but
(18:49):
you're coming here, it's aonce-in-a-lifetime hunt.
Yeah, sure you.
You take that six foot twocolor phase bear and then maybe
try for the giant for yoursecond tag and hopefully over
seven feet yeah, exactly, um,all right, so that.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So the moose hunting is your favorite, so I want to
talk about, I mean, the moosehere in new brunswick, and I
know it's different all overcanada, in the us.
I mean our moose season here is, uh, when if you're a, it's on
the draw system, the lotterysystem, and if you're a
non-resident, you have to comewith an outfitter, and our
season used to be three days,now it's five.
Uh, we hunt them in choppingsand swamps, a lot of calling,
(19:29):
you guys, it's a.
It's a bit different in alberta.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You guys have a much longer season, right yeah, the
seasons are broke up butgenerally speaking, if you
wanted to hunt moose in albertaas a resident you could start
most places september first, Ithink even in august there's a
couple seasons last few days ofaugust it'll open.
So by september 1st you canstart archery hunting in a lot
(19:53):
of places.
Um, and then there's it kind ofgraduates.
There's some units that open onseptember 7th for archery and
uh, once the season opens itusually stays open until
november 30th.
So depending on what territoryyou're in, the season can go
from september 1st to november30th.
Wow and uh, a lot of time yeah,that is uh.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So you're saying what you guide, is it what?
Roughly about 20 hunters a yearfor moose?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
yeah, I like.
I'm in the range right nowabout 20, 18 to 22.
Depends on the year and thegroup sizes that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Uh, that I know what it's like here getting ready for
a moose hunt for one.
I mean everyone's comingtogether and getting bikes and
trucks and trailers andeverything ready to go, all this
scouting and everything I meanyou doing that that's, that's a
lot.
So, uh, could you walk usthrough?
I guess when someone comes on amoose hunt with you sort of
what a typical hunt, if you canuh, it's going to look like yeah
(20:49):
, absolutely like it's from afrom a hunter's perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So, if we're starting right at the beginning, I
talked to these guys on thephone.
I talked to a few guys todayand they don't really know me
like the new guys don't know me.
Repeat clients are, they'relike buddies and they're easy to
deal with, but the new guys arenervous.
They don't know who you are.
They know they're taking achance.
Right, it's hard Like I don'twant to be in their position
choosing an outfitters not goingto be easy because you got to
(21:14):
get the right fit.
But so I talked to him a fewtimes.
We get feeling comfortable withthe situation and there's a lot
of money there at stake.
You know this could be a oncein a lifetime hunt for these
guys, so I try to make them feellike this is the right, this is
the right place, this is theright thing to do.
Um, you're gonna have a goodtime and you're gonna get you
know as close as what you paidfor as we can get, because moose
(21:36):
are still wild animals, right.
But so once we get these guyscomfortable with the situation,
uh, I'll meet them at an at atown near us, hopefully within
an hour.
Most guys drive up so they cantake the meat home.
The odd guys will fly.
Uh, flying with meat across tothe states is pretty difficult.
Flying within canada with somefrozen moose meat isn't so bad.
(21:59):
But most of my clients are outof country so they'll drive in
so they can take their meat home.
I'll meet them, we'll make suretheir licenses are right, get
them into camp.
Um, you know everybody'snervous and they're eager and
they want to go hunt and myguides are just like like a team
of horses.
They just want to go Right yeah.
And if the season's open,sometimes we'll cut them loose
(22:27):
the day before the hunt'ssupposed to start.
We'll let them go because justwe want to hunt.
That's what they're we're therefor.
Um, if the season's not open,we're all watching our watches
until the bell rings, you know.
And so everybody's off in theirown direction and each hunter
gets one guide.
I I prefer to do that.
Most guys charge more money forthat.
I just don't even offer atwo-on-one hunt.
Every guide has theirindividual hunter to deal with
and we work as a team.
We all set up, we set up ourdays together.
(22:49):
We have a group scrum at likefive o'clock in the morning.
All the guides know what's andthe hunters don't see this.
They're probably sleeping still.
We all decide where we're going, we check the wind, we know
what we're doing.
We make sure we don't run intoeach other, because if you do,
if you're running into your ownguides and you're calling each
other, you look like a bunch ofclowns.
That's not what you want that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's a good thing, it's a good point, right?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
that's something to mention and it happened, happens
all the time.
The funny part is the clientwould never know if that's
another moose or not.
But it's the right thing to dois get those hunters apart, get
them, them all, in good positionso they all have a chance at a
moose in the first morning, youknow.
So we'll head out, we'll do ourhunt in the morning and, uh, if
(23:30):
I have six hunters in the bushand they're hunting seven days,
somebody's probably going toshoot a moose that first day.
The odds are in your favor,right, cause half of your
hunters that come up just wantto shoot moose, so bad.
So the first bull they see isgoing to drop.
The other guys are going to geta little picky and let one or
two go before they get a littlenervous and they'll take one,
(23:52):
you know, or wait till a giantcomes.
So after that first day there'susually a moose on the ground.
So the text messages startflying around 11 o'clock and we
set up a plan to go pull thismoose out.
So whatever hunters want to goand help haul this moose home,
they're welcome to come.
So we'll run out maybe 5, 6ATVs, we'll clear a trail, we'll
(24:13):
get to where this moose is,we'll try to haul them out whole
at all costs because I want tokeep the meat clean to me.
Another outfitter told me thisonce years ago.
I have a lot of respect for him.
He says once we shoot thatmoose, he said I quit working
for you.
He says, like I work for themoose now right yeah, that's
good, that's very that'srespectful right.
(24:35):
I find, yeah, not always enoughrespect, you know, sometimes
with the animals that we take,and I like that a lot yeah, and
so I don't say that because someclients could take it the wrong
way, but it's, it's how wethink, right, like when that
moose is on the ground, itdoesn't.
If you got sore feet, that'sokay, you stay here, we'll deal
with it.
And that moose is getting backto camp.
(24:55):
That meat's going to be as highquality as absolutely possible,
and so we'll haul that moosehome and we get them in the tree
and, of course, if there's sixhunters, one guy gets a moose.
Most guys are high-fiving evenif they don't know the guy.
So we're all winning, right.
We always call this moose home,so we get them in the tree and
we get them skin skinned up andthat guide and that hunter get
to deal with that moose fromthere on out, and the other
(25:16):
hunters, when the, when theweather starts to cool in the
evening, head back out.
Or whenever the weather or theopportunity changes for the
calling sessions to be good,that's when we head out.
So it could be we could callall day if the weather's right,
but typically three hours in themiddle of the day are dead
water.
It's made for scouting orhaving a nap and getting ready
(25:38):
for when the moose hunting isgood, because you don't want to
stir up those moose when they'rehaving a nap.
You don't want to stir them upand and get them aware of your
presence in the middle of theday when things aren't going to
happen for you.
So we try to stay out of thegood territory in the middle of
the day.
So, uh, that's kind of a,that's kind of a day's hunting
yeah, it's same here.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I guess the afternoons are definitely a lot
slower and you know, just kindof just go, but don't be, like
you said, trying to rile them upat that time.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well, it's not that we don't hunt the evening.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We do, I meant the afternoon.
Sorry, yeah, just the afternoon.
Yeah, the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're going to have someactivity, and you've got to
remember, guys are travelingfrom a long ways, so sometimes
when you sit down at 1130 andit's hot, they want to go
hunting.
So sometimes you got to takethem on a tour just to keep them
busy.
But the truth, the truth isit's extremely rare, um, to get
a moose, but you know, between11 and 3, uh, it does happen and
(26:40):
it's possible.
So it's okay to go.
Look, just stay out of yourprime area, like go to some area
that it's not something youplan on hunting that evening,
because you'll probably just,you know, disturb it too much
right, right, um, you know, Ilike that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You said that too.
It's one guide, one hunter.
You don't even offer anythingdifferent.
Because I mean, you see, I seethat a lot.
When, uh, you know you'relooking at different hunts and
all that, no matter what the biggame species, they'll say, um,
oh well, it's, you know, it'stwo hunters per guide or it's
you know this much more, for onehunter, one guide.
But I like that it should be.
When you're hunting somethingespecially like that, like a
(27:14):
moose, you know you want to havejust one-on-one yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
It's always an upcharge to get your own guide
and stuff with most places, yeah, but I think my objective is
that everybody gets to shoot ata move right, and if, if I gotta
, if I gotta suck up a littlebit of the expense and have an
extra guide kicking around ortwo, as opposed to other camps.
That's what I'm going to do andI want to see I I want to see
(27:42):
100.
I know it's not always, youknow you can't expect to have
100 success every year, but man,we're running some of the camps
at 90.
That's for a long time, yep.
So what happens, though?
And part there's a lot ofreasons.
I mean, we have I have fiveguides that have been guiding
for me since day one, since theday I started, and, uh, that
(28:06):
gives you over a hundred andsome years of moose hunting
experience, when the four of usare 150 years of experience when
five of us are sitting around afire, like.
So that's part of it, butanother part of it is when that
first hunter tags out and thatmoose is dealt with and it's
under control, that guy, that'skind of freed up, he's going to
(28:26):
help the other guys, cause Idon't know if you've had this
experience.
But if you go and call a mooseand everything's going great,
that's wonderful, you're awinner.
But if you go out and there'smoose there and you're calling
and you're failing and they'rejust not answering, you start to
lose your confidence, right,and it's just sometimes just to
get another guide with you tosay, hey, just, you got this, it
(28:48):
sounds good, everything you'redoing is right, you're just
having bad days.
Sometimes you need that backup,and so whoever's struggling the
most which could be anybody itcould be the most veteran moose
hunting guide out there it couldbe struggling and it's like
it's in your head and you startto give up on your moose sets
too early and you walk away frommoose that you shouldn't be
walking away from.
To get that extra guide to comewith you, just for that extra
(29:11):
level of confidence to know thatyou're doing it right.
That's shooting moose, that'sgoing to change your game.
Just to have that extra guy, ohyeah, big time, and that's what
matters.
I tell my new guys I'm likethere's one thing you need to
know when you're calling moosewhen you sit down, you got to
know your wind and you got tomake sure it's going away from
the moose Right.
(29:31):
Number two you have to believehe.
You're going to walk away fromthat moose every time You're
going to give up.
You have to believe they hearyou and that's it's the truth.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, let me, you know, that's a great way to put
it and it's it's awesome to heartoo that you have the same guys
I mean as an outfitter, uh,people that have repeat clients.
They come back and see the sameoutfitters.
That shows, you know, that'sgood, right, you don't have a
high turnover and, um, yeah,it's probably handy too that you
guys know how each other worksand what everyone's like and
stuff and uh, just helps thingsgo, you know, smoother when
(30:09):
you're dealing, like I said,with you know, wilderness and
animals, the weather, uh guyscoming, you know, do you
recommend bringing their ownguns, is it?
Do you find it's a big deal tobring it across the border?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Oh, border crossing is nothing, it's so simple.
As long as you're not a felonor something, and if you can
cross the border under regularcircumstances, you'll have no
problems bringing a firearm in.
So anywhere in Canada we're allunder the same law.
You can bring a firearm in witha firearm declarations form as
(30:44):
a matter of fact I'm sure itcould change at any time, so a
guy has to really look at thecurrent regulations.
But you can bring four firearmsin every time you come.
So a shotgun, two rifles, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So guys coming in, they're talking to you on the
phone.
You know I'm curious like, allright, I've got whatever gun.
I'm thinking about buying a newgun for this occasion.
You know, what should I get?
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Oh man, I'm glad you asked that question.
Maybe we talked about thisbefore.
But my recommendation on a newrifle is don't do it, don't get
a new rifle.
Yeah, I know you want to Sure,make an excuse.
Go buy a rifle, tell, telleverybody around you you need a
new rifle.
That's cool.
But that's not my advice.
You can even blame it on me.
Go buy a 338, but bring therifle that you shoot every day.
(31:31):
Because here's what happensbring a.
I don't care if it's a 270, a30 out, six, whatever.
Any 30 caliber is fine.
Most of our moose are under 50yards.
Some are up to 150, which ispretty close.
The problem is a moose is goingto come in there to 20 yards.
He's going to poke his headaround the tree and he's going
to give you about a four inchsquare to shoot through.
You know he's legal, you knowit's a safe shot.
(31:53):
And here you are and you'regoing to miss and shoot a big
poplar tree or something.
Miss and shoot a big poplartree or something and guys get
nervous and they start shakingand then they need to reload and
they can't find their safety.
So if you don't have, if youhave, a new rifle I need.
I don't want that.
I want you to feel verycomfortable with what you're
shooting.
I want you to feel naturalabout it.
I know it sounds funny when Isay, hey, I don't want you to
(32:15):
miss a 20-yard shot, but ithappens often.
Oh, yeah, yeah, a moose comescharging in and they're snot
blowing and trees moving, andthen you see one of his eyes and
like a 50 inch rack poking outand when he takes two steps
you're gonna have a shot, butthat's it.
That's the only thing you'regetting.
And here you are with a newrifle and you forgot your safety
on, or you forgot to put yourclip in.
(32:36):
Yeah, or whatever.
If I could tell you stories,that's a whole other podcast.
We could talk about how manyguys forget their bullets
because they have a clip now, orwhatever.
Yeah, bring, every one of myguys has a story.
Hey, I forgot my bullets when amoose is standing there.
Every guide you know.
So bring the rifle that youshoot deer with, maybe not a
(32:58):
.243.
That might be a little small,it's doable and it's legal.
But you know, .270, .30-06, 7mmcaliber doesn't really matter,
just be able to hit what you'reshooting at.
And secondly, yeah, shotplacement Make sure you can hit
what you're shooting.
Make sure you're comfortablereloading your safety, a place
(33:20):
that makes sure you can hitwhere you're shooting.
Make sure you're comfortablereloading your safety.
And secondly, if a wolf walksout at 250 yards, 300 yards,
we're allowed to hunt wolves allthe time, like except at night.
You know the can't shoot atnight rule.
But um, you're gonna have totry.
He's not coming closer.
So kind of know where you'regonna shooting, have to try,
he's not coming closer.
So kind of know where you'regoing to shoot out to 300 yards,
(33:42):
you know.
And if a wolf walks out, atleast you won't regret giving it
a shot.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Well, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
I mean, what a cherry on top.
If you do get a moose, you knowto have a nice wolf.
What is the wolf situation outthere?
I mean, you hear all this stuff.
What's going on in the US withthe wolves seems to be getting a
little out of control.
How do you find it is there inmoose country?
I mean, they've always beenthere, the wolves, so is the
(34:09):
population more in check?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh man, you're going to hear a different story from
every person you talk to, but Ithink the way it's happening
right now is some units, someareas, are getting overrun with
wolves and, yes, it couldpossibly be from the whitetails
supplementing their survivalthat weren't there before and
(34:36):
that's the alternative prey deal.
But wolves are very prolific ina lot of areas.
Right now in Alberta we have acaribou problem as well, so the
government's taking measures toreduce wolf populations wherever
there's caribou, because thecaribou are basically the brink
of extinction.
Some of the herds and a lot ofpeople blame it on bad habitat
(34:57):
or habitat management, but thetruth of the matter is the last
caribou will be eaten by a wolf.
It won't be killed by loggingequipment.
So to keep the predators undercontrol is a good idea, and back
in the 60s, 70s, 80s, wolveswere worth a good dollar, so
(35:17):
trappers were really putting ina lot of effort.
Well, right now a wolf is $ two, three hundred bucks on the fur
market, so the trappers aren'treally throwing a lot of time
after those.
With fuel expenses being at awell, I hate to say it's
expensive at a dollar 13 a liter.
I don't know what you guys arepaying, uh, quite a bit more.
I saw a dollar 13 today and Ithought, man, that's still high,
(35:41):
but you feel your snow?
Yeah, and that's pretty good asopposed to the last two years.
Right, yeah, but nobody'skilling wolves, because it
there's no money in it and usedto be a very, you know, viable
industry.
So it's basically we're gettinga few here and there, so the
wolf population is very strongin a lot of locations.
(36:02):
Um, this is part of the reason.
In the prairies in southernalberta, let's say, if you look
at a map from red deer, all reddeer district, all the way north
to edmonton, there's piles ofmoose because there's no wolves.
Yeah, right, very few.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, there's such an , you know, top apex predator
that are unbelievably good atwhat they do, and yeah, you just
hear about them, you know,putting a beating on some areas.
So yeah, I was just kind ofwondering about that, because I,
you know, I know it's not a newthing to Alberta though, either
, so wasn't sure if it was alittle better rather than them
(36:37):
being introduced.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, the population fluctuates with the ungulate
population.
So you got to decide what youlike, because the environment
here has been changed right.
I mean, there's oil field,roads, there's logging I'm sure
(37:00):
you have.
There's nothing really naturalabout where you are there either
.
And if you decide that you wantyour moose population to be a
little bit better or enhanced,you can augment and manipulate
the situation to allow moremoose on the landscape.
You can just reduce wolf wolfnumbers, reduce the cow harvest
(37:23):
and your moose population willrise quickly.
So you have to decide what youwant and I think right now,
knowing that wolves exist ispretty important to a lot of
people that don't hunt.
And there's a lot of wolves outthere, and there's a lot of
bears out there, and there's alot of bears out there.
There's more bears than you canpossibly imagine.
Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, I've seen videos of people doing baits in
Alberta, you know, and there'sjust there's bears.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
There's like 20 bears surrounding them so I keep real
good statistics of my bearbaits, when they're hit, how
they're hit, how much bait we'reusing very, very uh organized
big chart.
There's a big chart in my guideshack on the wall.
The hunters don't really get tosee it but we we mark it all
down and and I'm telling you theaverage bear bait uh, on a good
(38:11):
night of sightings we'll seesix to nine bears, different
bears, the best bait this yearthere was 19 or 20 that come
into the guy which could be amistake, like he could have
counted one a couple times.
But if a guy walks into campand says he saw 72 bears, you
know you got to take that with agrain of salt.
(38:31):
But if a guy walks in and saysI saw 11 bears, this one's
missing an ear, this one's got alamp, this one's got three cubs
right and they kind of got ahandle on it.
I'd record that.
And it's six bears to a baitevery night.
That's kind of the average.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, that's a lot, though.
I mean all your different baitsand areas.
I mean that and areas, I meanthat's uh, that's a lot of bear,
it's a lot of mouths to feedtons, tons of bears.
Yeah, uh, when, when hunterscome into the moose camp, what
uh like, do you have themstaying out in tents?
You're not doing the helicopterthing like how, how's it set up
(39:08):
?
I guess what's camp like?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
so I haven't done a helicopter hunt in a while.
That was just the first one Iever did like working for a guy.
But how my camps are right nowis I have a mobile camp.
I have all canvas tents, 14 by16s, and a couple of hunters
stay in each one, or a group ofhunters might be two, might be
four hunters in a group kind ofstay together Because you want
(39:33):
to stay with your buddies andcarry on and part and whatever
and make fun of each other.
Right, it's part of the wholedeal.
And so we we put all the groupstogether and and individuals
are get a lot of husbands andwives.
They get their own tent andwe'll try, we'll try to put it
off a little ways so they don'thave to listen to the Kai and
the boys getting rowdy of thekai and the boys getting rowdy
(39:57):
whatever they're doing.
And then we have a separatecook tent.
It's a larger tent.
It can accommodate probably 15people eating at any given time,
so that's where all the food isprepared.
That's kind of a social area.
And then the guides stay intheir own tent off in the other
direction.
Somewhere we have wire.
They call their brewery cable.
You can hang lights from it andstuff.
It runs through every tent.
(40:18):
It runs off the generator, soevery tent's got a plug in it
for nowadays, phone charging wenever.
We never had Google maps ornothing when we started, but we
always had power and now we cancharge all of our gear.
So that's kind of how the campis set up.
Typically, we can drive to campon good weather, and the reason
(40:39):
I want that is so if we have togo to town we have to take a
moose to a butcher because it'scold, too warm.
They have to cool it down.
Then at least we can get out ofthere, take care of that moose
and have it processed properly,rather than hang in a tree when
it's too warm.
That's sort of how the camp'sset up.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Right, yeah.
So I mean they're getting areally cool experience.
I mean especially people thatare coming from areas way warm
Say someone's coming fromFlorida or something to be out
there in the northern Albertabush and moose camp.
I mean, what a you know, it'samazing, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well, you got to remember these guys sit at home.
They've deer hunted florida,let's say little tiny 60 pound
whitetails, you know.
And so they come up here andjust to see a whitetail doe
that's 190 pounds they'reshocked.
They're like that's got to be abuck without antlers.
I'm like no, that's just a bigold fat doe.
She's been eating out of agreenery somewhere.
But for them to come and dothis, you got to remember
(41:38):
they've been thinking about thistheir whole life.
Right, a moose hunt is?
I don't know, I'm sure there'ssomething in Canada the hunters
here dream about doing.
Maybe go to Africa.
But you think about it and youdream about shooting moose your
whole life, because you'vewatched it on TV and you know
what it is for me life, becauseyou watch it on tv and you know
what it is for me I.
(41:58):
I used to dream about bassfishing.
I never saw a bass until I was30 years old right and so you
watch bill dance and all theseguys fishing.
You're like I gotta catch a bass.
So you go to florida and thefirst bass I caught was like
nine and a half pounds.
I had no idea.
It was even big.
I had no clue.
And so these guys come tocanada and they shoot a moose
with four points, or they shoota moose that's 50 inches wide.
Most guys are ecstatic withanything, because it's just this
(42:20):
experience of a lifetime andthey may never get to do it
again, right?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
So very cool.
Yeah Well, I was going to asktoo.
I mean it must be amazing.
I'm sure you have a lot of guyscome in that have have never
seen a moose before, and forsomeone that's never seen a
moose before and for someonethat's never seen a moose in
person before, I mean they are,they look like a I don't know
dinosaur or something.
They're huge.
They look like out of thisworld.
The first time you you see oneup close and personal, it's
amazing yeah, that big nose onthem.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And even the more shocking thing is, and why
people miss them is when thatmoose you can't see that moose
till he's 30 yards away usually,and when he pops out of 20
yards and the trees are moving.
This is why guys miss, likeI've had guys miss at 10 yards
with a rifle.
You know they're shaking andthe moose is there and they
can't.
You know they're just losing itand then that's cool, whatever.
(43:09):
I mean, it's part of part ofthe excitement of the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I you know well know, well, yeah, exactly, we just
tried.
So yeah, I mean it, it, thepeople I find too that haven't
been around them.
You know, I've still find itamazing how something that big,
with you know, sometimes a greatbig rack on them can just
barrel through the woods Likeyou so quick.
It's unreal.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Oh, and not make a sound and not make a noise, like
I tell my guides.
I tell my guides, if you hear astick break when you're calling
, it could be nothing.
If you hear two sticks thatbreak in the same direction,
chances are a moose is breakingthose on purpose, like two or
three or four in one direction.
(43:51):
Okay, this moose is actuallyresponding to your call.
They don't always grunt,because when they do, the wolves
show up right or whatever.
There's predators out there thatare listening for them, just
like we are.
And so when you hear that moosecoming and they poke their head
out at 20 yards, but you heardthree sticks break 500 yards
back like that shocks me that a50-inch rack won't break a stick
(44:15):
all the way in yeah, right,yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's amazing how they do it and, um, yeah, like I
said, people that have justnever seen a moose in person
before must be amazing.
But I mean, I'm sure you haveguys from all over that come
like a lot of stuff therethey've probably never seen like
even.
Uh, do you guys see many muledeer in that area?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, southern Alberta is actually a real
stronghold still for mule deer.
Peace country puts out somereally good ones.
Um, the biggest mule deer inthe world came from Alberta.
I don't know if I don't know ifmany people really pay
attention to that, but just westof Edmonton, here a couple, a
couple hours, 200 kilometers,uh5 inches that deer was, yeah,
(44:59):
and I don't know if it'll everbe beat.
But the genetics of thegenetics of those mule deer that
live up in that, in thatessentially hilly moose country,
yeah, are just great genetics.
Not so many like the mule deer.
Population has shifted again.
It's more, uh, the best muledeer hunt is still in the
(45:19):
prairies.
Uh, and the peace river country.
Peace river is a bigagricultural area and there's
still some great mule deer there.
Um, but swan hill slave lakevalley view used to have great
moose hunting and great muledeer hunting and now it just
seems to be moose and whitetails.
The mule deer are at a minimumnow.
Not sure why.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Not sure why.
And in your area too, I mean,do you guys have a lot of elk
moving around there?
Are there more agricultureareas?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, so an elk is a grazer, so they're going to need
something on the ground where amule deer is both browser, more
so right, and a moose is allbrowser.
So when you're looking for elkyou need to find some decent
grass.
And when the snow gets threefeet deep and those elk are
struggling, they really love tofind the guy with the best bales
(46:14):
in the country and conquer downin his yard.
So there's, if it wasn't forfarmers being in that peace
country, those elk wouldstruggle and uh, even right now
there's like almost a damagecontrol hunt happening in peace
river.
I looked at the tag this morningand I think there's got to be
(46:35):
two or three thousand antlerlesstags in some of those units for
cows.
Really, yeah, and like it's nota very high success hunt.
Don't get like they have togive that many tags because
we're hunting private land.
You can't always get access.
The elk are always on two orthree different farmers in fe
(46:55):
and maybe that farmer will letyou hunt, maybe not.
So unless you really do yourresearch in advance, you're not
going to be successful.
So when they give out 2,000tags, I don't really know what
the success rate is, but it'snot 100, I'll tell you that I'd
venture to say it's closer to 30or 40%, if that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Okay, wow yeah.
Definitely harder than peoplewould expect.
I'd venture to say it's closerto 30 or 40% if that.
Okay, wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Definitely harder than people would expect.
Yeah, it's not shooting fish inthe barrel.
Like I say, though, thelimiting factor is getting
access to the land that the elkare feeding on.
There could be 300, 400 elkhitting somebody's bales, and
it's not like that as much todaybecause they are trying to
reduce the numbers, because theyare doing so much damage, um,
basically, to the hay andwhatnot in the winter.
Yeah, um, you know, I've seengroups recently of you know 90
(47:45):
in the winter that's it I'm surethere's bigger ones, but yeah,
yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
I mean they're decent sized animal too.
Um, it's all interesting justlearning about different areas.
You know the hunting and theanimals and kind of what the
situation is there.
Uh, yeah, terence, I mean Ican't thank you enough for
coming on the podcast.
Hope to have you on again.
Uh, really interesting talkingabout.
Uh, you know, especially, we'vegot moose season around the
corner for most people in thecountry.
(48:11):
Um, yep, so said, if peoplewant to get a hold of you,
what's the best way?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Well, my website is bossoutfittingcom.
It hasn't changed in a lot ofyears.
It's been there.
If you get on my website youcan find my phone number.
I have a reasonably goodFacebook presence.
I'm not super good at thesocial media, but I try to put
some stuff out there that Ithink is pretty cool.
(48:38):
But the best thing to do is geton that website and check it
out, and, man, I'd much rathertalk about hunting than work.
So anytime we can do that, I'mhappy.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, Um, yeah, I mean, like I said, your website
boss outfitting.
Uh, I found it.
It was easy to navigate and youhave great pictures and what
you offer and everything, and itwas well put together, like I
said, very easy to use.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
I got a pretty good designer.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
She's been doing websites since I was 19 years
old.
I think she did that website.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
And evolved it right.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, she's been around forever, that's pretty
neat Good deal.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Well, like I said, I'm sure I'll be talking to you
again soon and I can't wait tosee some pictures and wish you
all the success this upcomingseason.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Right on.
We'll keep in touch, ken.
Thanks for having me All rightthanks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com