August 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Modern technology is transforming the way we understand and manage deer populations, and Jack Huston of Midwest Deer Surveys is at the forefront of this revolution. Armed with cutting-edge thermal drone equipment that boasts four times the resolution of standard models, Jack travels across the heartland helping property owners unlock the secrets of their land.
What began as a deer recovery service quickly evolved when Jack recognized the powerful data these aerial surveys could provide. His passion for deer management merged perfectly with this new technology, creating a business that now serves landowners from Ohio to Wisconsin, South Dakota to Arkansas, and beyond. The results have been eye-opening: most property owners underestimate their deer populations by approximately 25%, a figure that remains remarkably consistent across different regions.
During our conversation, Jack explains how these surveys inform critical management decisions, often revealing that properties have too many does for optimal trophy buck production. "It's like fishing a pond," Jack explains. "Your land can only support so many deer, and we need to have the right number if we want quality." He shares fascinating insights about habitat quality, noting that farms with dense, high-quality timber consistently hold more mature bucks than open properties. This makes perfect sense when you understand that deer are actively feeding throughout the day and need both security cover and accessible browse.
Perhaps most intriguing is Jack's observation about predator impact. Properties with more open terrain often have lower deer densities, partly because coyotes can hunt more effectively without dense cover protecting fawns. Yet these same properties sometimes produce the largest bucks - Jack's personal best came from just such a farm. For serious hunters and land managers, thermal drone technology represents a quantum leap forward in understanding what's happening on their property and how to optimize it for wildlife.
Whether you're considering purchasing hunting land, wondering if you should harvest more does, or simply curious about what's actually living on your property, this episode offers valuable insights into how modern technology is changing the wildlife management game. Subscribe now to hear more conversations with innovative outdoorsmen who are redefining how we interact with the natural world.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I am your host and rookie guide, ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how-tos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
Hey, it's another week andwe've got another great episode
(00:33):
for you.
So modern technology.
Would you use it to better yourproperty and deer herd,
resulting in better hunting foryourself?
Of course you would.
Why wouldn't you right?
Well, this is where Jack ofMidwest Whitetail Surveys comes
in.
Using his knowledge inhigh-tech drone, he's able to
(00:54):
tell you so much more about yourproperty and give you a deer
herd analysis.
I don't want to give anythingelse away because Jack does such
a great job of explaining itall.
This is an interesting one thatyou are going to want to stay
tuned for.
You can find and check outMidwest Whitetail Deer Surveys
on YouTube and Facebook and, youknow, see some of their cool
pictures and videos Talkingabout deer management and being
(01:17):
able to help maximize results toget big deer.
If you have a dog, your trustedcanine deserves to be fed the
best to maximize their best inthe field.
That's why I feed and recommenda Nook Shook dog food For
general health and maintenancein the off season I like feeding
their 26-16 blend With lots tochoose from.
(01:39):
Head over to their website.
Check it out and see whichblend is going to be right for
your dog, from really highenergy to general health and
maintenance.
If your dog has any allergiesto corn or chicken or anything
like that, they've got marineblends.
It's natural, locally sourcedingredients.
Highly recommend it.
If you want to get in contactwith me, you can email me at
(02:03):
huntsonoutfitting at gmailcom.
Check us out on Facebook Huntson Outfitting or myself, ken
Meyer, on Facebook.
Send me a friend request.
All right, let's listen to Jack.
All right.
So yeah, jack, with MidwestWhitetail Deer Surveys.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Thank you for having me, ken, looking forward to
talking today.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah.
So I mean, before we get delveright into all of this, you know
, if you don't mind saying, ifyou could sum up yourself in a
few sentences where you're from,and kind of, I guess have you
always been hunting and fishing,or?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, jack Houston, from central Missouri, born and
raised here my whole life,started Midwest Deer Surveys
several years ago doing all thisthermal drone stuff.
But yeah, I've been an avidhunter and managed land with my
dad for my whole life, chasedwhitetails and kind of just been
(03:06):
Midwest guy, love turkeyhunting too, but kind of that
passion grew into helping otherlandowners with it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yep, do you do any turkey surveys and stuff with
your drone as well?
I just got into turkey huntingthis past year and I can see how
people get the addiction andget hooked into it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I do not.
We can see them on our surveys.
It's just not something I'veoffered, but definitely
potential for doing that kind ofthing if somebody really wanted
it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose You're already set up to do, to
do it really, I guess yeah,absolutely uh, so yeah, I'm
really curious about how you Imean you so you grew up hunting,
fishing, and then what got youinto the drone?
Because you started with deerrecovery first, was it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
that is true.
Okay, yeah, I kind of kind ofplanned going in that first
season to maybe jump into alittle bit of this, but um
didn't realize kind of thepotential and how many people I
could really help with it.
So I just saw I'm sure peoplehave heard of the company drone
deer recovery with mike yoder.
(04:23):
I saw them about three years agoonline and saw what what that
technology could do and I waslike, hey, I can, I can do this
um, and then didn't think itturned into anything like it is
now but be localized and helppeople find the deer, and that's
(04:43):
kind of what it was in thebeginning.
It was kind of fun and I uh,I'm real analytical love, love
management for deer um, almostmore than the hunting aspect,
yeah, and so I just saw it as agreat tool to um, you know, help
people find out how many deerthey have.
(05:05):
And from hunting differentproperties, some struggled with
low deer densities.
I mean you might see one deeron a hunt to another farm not
very far away that had too manydeer given the level of habitat
and it was definitely affectingthe herd there that I just knew
(05:27):
how important it was to manage adeer herd from from a number
standpoint, and so startedoffering it as a service and
then just grew from there, okayyeah, I was curious how you got
going with it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So I mean, was there a big learning curve with just
getting a drone, for instance?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
just starting with that, I had had a little DJI
before so I knew a little bitabout the operating system.
I always tell people it takes,you know, probably 20, 30 hours
to get kind of comfortable withit.
Um, or says it takes part 107if you want to do it
(06:10):
commercially, which is just adrone drone aviation test, but
nothing too hard if you reallywant to do it okay, yeah, I had
a little experience with onelast year.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I didn't get to use it, but I got to see them used.
I had uh, the neighbors hadsomeone visiting they didn't
think set off fireworks.
All my cows went through thefence and were out for about a
week and we had a guy come inwith a thermal drone and it was
midsummer, the foliage couldn'tbe any thicker and, sure enough,
after a bit we ended up findingthem and he was able to guide
(06:43):
us because he could see us andguide us to the cows and push
them out with the drone.
I was like that's pretty cool,but we ended up finding some
deer and I think even a raccoonand stuff as we were looking for
the cows.
It was really neat.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, that's awesome.
There's so many uses for them.
So, missing people, missinganimals, deer there's a lot of a
lot of great opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, so you got into this.
Um, how far do you travel?
You're in Missouri.
How far does do you take yourbusiness or does?
Have you not set a limit yet?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
There's no limit.
Um, I had a meeting with aperson in Florida yesterday.
Oh wow, I kind of travel allover this year.
It'll kind of be as of rightnow Ohio to Wisconsin, to South
Dakota, down to Arkansas, downto Alabama.
(07:43):
So I cover a lot of the middlepart of the United States, but
always open to working somewhereelse.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Okay, wow, that's pretty cool.
What would be say the averageland mass on these properties
that you go to?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's anywhere from 4,200 acres that's the biggest
property I've ever done all theway down to um like a 40 acre
partial, and most properties areprobably 150 to 200.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, yep, so not a bad size to work with, really.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Mm-hmm, I would say maybe I do a lot of properties
in the 400 to 500-acre range.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Okay, yeah, so that gives you, yeah, that's a fair
amount to work with with thelandowner and explaining on you
know.
So I guess, before I say that,how about you explain how it
works?
So the landowner calls you outto do you know kind of a herd
analysis survey and what's theinitial meeting like with them?
(08:58):
Phone call.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
We just look over the property, um, agree on a time
and date and um, pricing and allthat good stuff.
And then we pick a couple ofweek window when the weather
will be that uh, when, when agood weather day comes up, and
we'll, we'll get it done.
And then, um, let's sayDecember 1st is when we're going
(09:23):
to do a survey.
Well then we might starttalking November 15th, find a
good day, and I go out there,perform the survey with them or
without them, could do it eitherway and then, once the data is
collected, I go back and do someof my after the fact stuff
(09:45):
analysis.
I go back and, you know, dosome of my after-the-fact stuff
analysis, if you'll call it, butgiving them all their
deliverables, and then alwaysoffer to have a meeting to go
over it one more time with themonce the finalized product.
But that's about it on that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, so what are you looking for for ideal
conditions?
Because remember when I had theguy out to look for my cows in
the summer there he was evensaying that some of the trees, I
think, will even give off someheat mainly we're looking for
just a not a hot, sunny day.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, um, the sun's out and it's cooler.
Um, with drone I'm able tofilter some of that heat out and
still see the deer.
But once it gets to be just 70degrees or warmer and sunny,
then we want to stay away fromthat.
Also, if it's extremely foggyor something like that, we don't
(10:44):
want to survey in that.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Right, yeah, that would make it more difficult.
So I mean the time of year youkind of prefer say like the fall
.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'll do surveys.
I mean, I did a survey lastnight, actually in the summer
just in the evening, looking fordeer as they come out into the
field.
Yeah, I'll do those in July andAugust here in the Midwest, but
basically mid-November tomid-April is when I do most of
(11:15):
my surveys, when the leaves areoff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Okay, yeah, makes it a lot easier, Mm-hmm yeah.
You know you haven't been doingthis long and you've obviously
uh, gotten a name for yourselfvery quickly by the range of
area that you're getting callsfrom.
And then you know it was neattoo.
I even saw the video with youand uh, you know don higgins,
which is a pretty big name, theoutdoor industry and doing his
(11:39):
firm and all that.
So I mean congratulations.
It's uh, it looks like it'sbeen going well yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's been, uh it's been a lot of fun and um gotta
gotta meet with so many coolpeople and work on so many cool
properties, so it's uh been areal blessing yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So do you find that you do more work with just
private landowners or do you doa lot for outfitters as well?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Not a whole lot for outfitters Definitely be good to
get in.
I just don't think.
Well, I don't want to talk badabout outfitting, but for the
most part the money isn'tsomething they want to spend.
They're running it more as abusiness.
So I'm working more for justprivate landowners.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I kind of figured that just from
the stuff I saw and everything.
It's like food plots.
I mean I think the majority ofall people that do food plots
are just private landowners, notnecessarily any outfitters.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I know a few.
But yeah, you're absolutelyright, it's definitely a little
bit of a different thing.
I've worked for a fewoutfitters, but primarily it's
just private landowners on theirproperties.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, so are the landowners usually surprised by
the amount of deer you find.
Like you know, they'll take aguess before and then are they
usually?
Is there usually a lot moredeer than they figure?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Typically about 25 more percent, 25 percent more.
If somebody knows what they'retalking about I'd say Okay, yeah
, that number holds prettyconsistent.
Consistent, which I think ispretty interesting really, that
it's almost always that 25%number, 25% more, yeah.
(13:37):
Well, it's hard to reallyunderstand sometimes how many
deer are out there just fromhunting and trail cameras.
So the drone allows us toreally get that number correct
and go from there.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, exactly how do the land owners use the drone
info to improve, like afteryou're done?
I mean, what do you usually goover with them after?
After you've done?
You know your whole analysisand everything.
You've got the drone packed up,you're typing up, you kind of
type up a report, right, andthen what do you guys discuss
(14:14):
after that?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
For a pretty good portion of my landowners, you
need to harvest more deer.
You live in an area, saysouthern Iowa, where I have a
lot of data from and we canagree that certain parts of the
state, especially that southernpart and most of that southern
(14:38):
part, probably has too many deerif you really want to grow on
the top top bucks.
So it's really, you know, howmany deer do we want on this
level of habitat currently?
And then if we're going toimprove your habitat, then we
can hold some more deer andwhat's that?
What's that good number um forwhen that habitat's improved?
(15:00):
And ideally they're going tocontinually have me out every
year to track it, but if not,then we make a game plan for
that.
It's just like I always tellpeople it's like fishing a pond.
You know your pond's so fertileand there's so much food in any
(15:21):
given pond and we need to havethe right number of fish in that
pond.
And really deer are nodifferent Like the broader
landscape is.
You know, not every property islike a pond.
That would be more of ahigh-sense scenario.
But deer have their areas andsome of them overlap.
But deer have their areas andsome of them overlap, and so
(15:44):
it's more like a fluid thingthan just a pond with being all
enclosed.
But we don't want to have toomany and deer naturally in a lot
of these areas want tooverpopulate and most of my
landowners are trying to growthe top one or two bucks every
year on their land.
So I just help them understandthat more is not always better.
(16:13):
And then for some otherlandowners you know we may talk
about, you just naturally havemaybe a little lower of a
population than you want, andhow do we increase that?
Maybe it's planting some warmseason grasses to really help
with, you know, getting thosefawns through the first month or
(16:33):
two, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I mean you're just going over.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
It's all about some people don't understand it
completely the land's carryingcapacity Mm-hmm, and a lot of
properties have.
I would say their carryingcapacity used to be higher, but
because the deer population gotso got a little too high for too
long, a lot of those preferredbrow species have been mowed
(17:05):
down and a lot of the landscapejust doesn't produce the quality
of food that used to be there.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Right, yeah, when you're out on these and you can
see I've seen some videos like,depending on the area, you can
really see the deer, travelcorridors and all that, their
paths.
How important on your land doyou find?
It probably varies by state,but is a water source.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's not something I've tracked a bunch.
Most of my flights are fromthat mid-November to April
timeframe.
I know deer they get 60 toupwards of 70% of their food
from the browse they eat.
So that's not something I'vetracked, but I'm sure there's
(17:57):
some correlation that you couldprobably find there.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'm sure there's some correlation that you could
probably find there.
So when you're going out anddoing this, you're able to.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So you find the deer with the drone and you're able
to mark each deer with like awaypoint.
Is it Correct?
Yeah, we have an exact GPSlocation we can pin down of
every deer.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So that way you're not marking the same one twice
and then you're able to tell,because some people listening to
this are probably wondering areyou able to tell bucks and does
?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
fairly easily Depending on the time of year, I
guess.
So kind of the quick way we dothe survey is we're searching
with a thermal sensor and then,once we find a heat signature
that we know is a deer, based onsize and mark, then we'll
switch over to what is calledthe zoom camera, which is no
(18:53):
different than your phone whenyou zoom in, it's just a little
better and then we can zoom inand see if that's a buck or a
doe or maybe something differenta cow.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Okay.
Yeah, here's something thatprobably people are wondering is
on the properties that havelarge bucks.
When you're there in the fall,say, and you can see their
potential and what their antlersare fully grown, is there
anything that these farms'properties have in common that
(19:25):
carry the large bucks?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The biggest thing I've noticed is the quality of
and this depends on where you'reat, but in a lot of my stuff is
what I would call at least50-50 timber farms in the
midwest.
So maybe half the farm is woodsand most of these farms are in
(19:49):
the midwest, but for the mostpart, farms that have really
high quality timber and um,better timber, more browse in
the area around, are holdingsignificantly more deer and
mature bucks.
So when that timber is better,it serves two purposes it's both
(20:14):
thicker, which the deer like.
There's more cover.
A lot of people walk through aforest and you can see hundreds
of yards.
We're.
That's not what we want forwildlife.
We want it, want it to bereally thick, hard to walk
through, lots of sunlightreaching the forest floor, and
so not only is there a lot ofcover, but there's a lot of food
(20:38):
.
And another thing thing I'vefound on these surveys is deer
will be on their feet eating allday long, and so a huge part of
that is, you know, they want tobe able to stand up and grab a
bite to eat while they're in thewoods.
So having that is extremelyimportant, and it definitely has
(21:01):
opened my eyes on the placeswhere I hunt and manage to
really bring deer in.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Right.
Do you think that this issomething that people should
look into and be more open about?
It's new technology People arehesitant.
It's new technology People arehesitant.
And to being a really effectivedeer management tool just more
effective, obviously, than cellcameras and stuff and being able
to figure out where the deerare, what's going on where to
(21:34):
set things up.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
All that, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think everybody shoulduse a thermal drone before they
buy a property.
If you're going to spendmillions of dollars or whatever
give or take on any givenproperty, you ought to know
what's there, especially if theprimary purpose is wildlife.
(21:55):
We're just able to learn somuch so quick with that.
Ideally, I think everybodywould fly their farm every year
at the same time and and havethat data and be able to track
it over time.
I think it'll help peopleanswer a lot of questions.
Um then, on buying beforeproperty obviously very valuable
there.
So, um, the key is having theright technology and the right
(22:18):
person to interpret thoseresults and guide you in the
right direction.
That's what we try to do atMidwest Gear Surveys.
I think thermal drones are aphenomenal piece of technology.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, absolutely, and that should be utilized.
Your drone's really accurate.
I saw one video where you guysyou know you found a shed with
it, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, that was.
It's definitely possible.
In the spring Got to have theright conditions, Got to be
sunny for most of the day andthen kind of sudden cloud cover.
But I was pretty pumped when Ifound that shed?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, that was neat.
Do you find that a common thingwith a lot of these properties?
Mainly no matter what stateyou're in is?
Do you think that a lot oflandowners more does do need to
be harvested?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
100%.
Yeah, I mean ideally, in mostplaces, we want our buck to
dough ratio to be one to one ora little little more bucks of
doughs.
Honestly, um, and and in 80 ofthe cases that's, we're far from
that um, I'd say my averagebuck-to-doe ratio is about 2.1
(23:43):
to1.
I think is what it comes downto, and that's doing some math
to exclude button bucks.
So that's not just okay.
We found two deer withoutantlers to one with antlers.
No, this is the actual, realnumber of how many male deer are
(24:05):
there versus female deer.
And so I've seen, even in a lotof good areas, like I have, a
lot of deer breeding in evenJanuary.
That I've seen with the droneand that's detrimental to a
herd's health when the bucks arestill running around in the
(24:27):
super cold winter trying tobreed does.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, have you found?
Have you ever found anythingreally unique while out flying,
like if you accidentally foundthe landowner's big, you know,
pot plantation or anything likethat?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
no, not that yet.
Um, I have come across someweird spots in a cornfield
before, but I don't think it wasthat.
Um, I found all sorts of stufftrespassers Once I'm in Illinois
.
I thought this was pretty cool,but I believe they were great,
great blue heron, um, but therewere probably five or 600 of
(25:08):
them and just a few big treesand they all had nests.
They were all just in thesegiant trees um along the river
and I guess it was breedingseason for them.
But you see, a heron, it'susually one at a time and to see
500 of them that close waspretty neat.
(25:30):
I've got all sorts of coolvideos and cool farms, but more
on the deer side on cool farms,but more on the deer side.
Yeah, I'd say seeing thosebirds was probably one of the
coolest things.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, that's really neat.
You're right.
Yeah, I just see one at a timeat most, so that is pretty cool.
A lot of places do define thatthere's.
Do you pick up a lot of coyotes, Like, how's the predator
population in some of theseareas and does that need to be
worked on a lot for some ofthese landowners to have more
deer on their property?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I think that it definitely in open country that
coyotes can do a lot more damageon being more effective at
killing fawns because there'sjust a lot less cover um.
Being more effective at killingponds because there's just a
lot less cover Um.
I know for a fact.
So I mentioned those twoproperties in the beginning, one
(26:28):
that I hunt.
They're only about five milesapart.
One has a really low deerdensity and one has a very high
deer density.
One that has a very high deerdensity is mostly timber Um and
the one that has low density isfairly open and the fairly open
farm has a lot of cattle aroundit, but I know the coyote
(26:50):
population there is very high,which I do believe has a pretty
big impact on the low deerpopulation there, impact on the
low deer population there, and Ithink that coyotes can be a lot
more effective in that opencountry just because there's a
lot less cover for the deer tohide in.
(27:11):
Right, yeah, so I think thathas a big impact on the deer
herd there.
Now I don't necessarily thinkthat's a bad thing.
The biggest deer I everharvested was on that farm.
So maybe there's less deer butthere's bigger deer.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Right, yeah, yeah, that's true.
So I mean, as busy as you arewith this and everything, do you
still get much time to go outand hunt yourself?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I try to as much as I can in october, um, because
once november hits and kind offloodgates open on finding deer
and doing these surveys.
Yeah, um, I run lots of camerasand and sell cameras and
whatnot.
So generally I have a prettygood idea of you know when a
buck is, I'd say, killable in acertain setup and then I'll push
(28:06):
hard to go hunt.
Um, I don't hunt blindly a lotunless I have the time, but I
hunt.
I hunt as strategically as Ican and, um, didn't harvest a
deer last year but I have a fewgood ones this year that
hopefully I can catch up toright.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, I know I like to do it when I'm out.
Hunting is uh, I don't spend apile of time deer hunting, so I
want to stack as many things inmy favor as I can, so that way
you know when I'm out the oddsare.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I would.
The only time I'd hunt blindlyis probably the last week of
October and the first week ofNovember.
Okay yep, and you know you canhunt into November some.
But man, what I've seen, justfrom a hunting standpoint, the
last week of October if you'vegot a deer that you know is
anywhere around, that's the timeto be out hunting them with a
(29:04):
bow?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, before it gets too chaotic in the woods during
rifle.
Yeah, same thing here.
So are you still quite busydoing the deer recovery in your
area as well?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Last year I did around 55.
Um, yeah, so most of those comein a very short window and
probably the first week ofnovember was bow 30, so, um, I
know there's there'ssignificantly more people in
(29:47):
missouri every year doing it,but, um, I think it'll still
increase this year.
I have a little bettertechnology than a lot of the
people with drones, which allowsme to find a few more deer, but
(30:08):
I would say, for the most part,just whoever is, you know,
that's fairly close to you is agreat option for helping you
find your deer.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yep, that'd be a good thing to put on a business card
.
Is I have a little bit betterdrone technology than other
people?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh yeah, it's definitely a selling point.
Actually, the drone I have ispretty much any other thermal
drone out there.
Uh, it's got four times thethermal resolution of of any
other drone and twice the boomof the next best.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah yeah, that'll.
Uh, that's impressive, thatgets the job done.
I mean, it must be so exciting,though, when you're with
somebody they're like, yeah, Ican't find this deer, but
looking everywhere, you know wegot rain, it washed the blood
this and that, and then for youto be able to find it with them.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I mean you get to feel that excitement every time,
multiple times, many times ayear it is so cool and I mean I
don't even mind hunting lessbecause I feel like I gotta go.
You know I gotta go deerhunting 55 times on a successful
hunt, helping these otherpeople.
So I get to feel that, feelinga lot, and it's a ton of fun and
(31:24):
it must feel good too.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You're just giving that honor and respect to the
animal finding it.
You know because I mean, howmany deer before this technology
came out that were just neverfound.
They just wound and go diesomewhere and that's that.
And you know, you got a hunterat home feeling sick to his
stomach and meat wasted and it'sjust so great being able to
have this technology at yourdisposal and be able to recover
(31:47):
that animal that otherwise mightnot be.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I mean, what a waste to just let the animal go
and not be able to use it.
So the drone, for the most mostpart, has solved that problem
completely and I'm sure thenumbers well over 10,000 deer
that would have not been found,that have been found across the
(32:13):
states with them.
Do you all have this kind ofjust just legally?
Are you allowed to use this incanada for something like this?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
um, so I think it's going to go by province, by
province, but as far as I'maware, um, there's not been I
don't think there's been anylaws put in place yet, because
it just hasn't become thatprevalent here, so they haven't
addressed it really.
And I got to admit Canada Imean especially my province
(32:50):
compared to the states we'rebehind in a lot of hunting
things and all that.
It's just, it doesn't seem tobe looked at as much in, you
know, when you're in politicsand making the laws and
everything politics and makingthe laws and everything, um,
there are some areas I mean ournatural resources minister
before was really good at, youknow, opening up the books,
putting implementing better lawsand stuff that made common
sense, uh, but for the most partI don't think though, uh, it's,
(33:12):
it hasn't really come up enough.
And I don't know anybody usingthermal drones, really, uh, to
find dear the guy that helped mefind the cows, I think he has
found a few for people and stuff.
He does a lot, a lot of workwith the fire department too,
finding hot spots and all thatduring forest fires and things.
Um, but yeah, I'd have to lookinto more, but it's just, I
(33:36):
don't know anyone that does ithere and stuff.
So drones are being used justfor you know, checking.
I had a buddy that had a guycome out with a drone checking
an area that was a big swamp andit was hard to walk through and
he was trying to see if there'sdeer trails through it, stuff
like that.
But it could be an untappedmarket here in Canada.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential for, I mean,
you all have different, morespecies of big game up there and
I think I think it's a greattool that could be used for for
managing a lot of those, whetherit's moose or elk out West.
(34:17):
Or said you're going on sheephunt, yeah, and when I was in
the mountains last week, um, Iwas over in montana at glacier
national park, but I couldn'tstop thinking just how how great
a wildlife survey would be inthe mountains I mean just being
able to cover that whole valleyat one time with the drone be so
(34:39):
, so useful and, um, I wish thatsome of those government
entities would use it more andfor managing those populations
of wildlife well, yeah, exactly,and yeah, I think it should be
as well, like you guys in thestates I mean anyone from canada
, canada could admit this.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mean, just your guys' deer management there
alone is leaps and bounds aheadof where we are here, but I
don't know if it's the bigger—Imean, there's some landowners
around that do a great job, butit's hard to get everyone on
board with it as well, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, it's just, you guys do a really great job
managing deer herds and all thatthere and it shows by some
areas where you can harvest, youknow two, three plus deer a
year.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, some of the states are that's pretty unreal
um deer population.
So, even though some of thosestates aren't managed the best,
even though they have those, butum, we, uh, we've got some
fertile deer ground down here,so yeah, absolutely just great
(35:52):
agriculture land.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And then said the more people you get on board
with it with you know, all right, well, let's let the smaller
bucks go and try to get biggerones and manage the does
properly and things like that.
But yeah, it can be kind oftricky sometimes.
So are you doing this full-timeJack?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I am now.
I'm actually still got a littlebit of school left.
I'm getting my master's inaccounting here in Missouri, but
that's kind of taking the backburner and I'm going to finish
up school but really hittingthis drone stuff hard,
(36:34):
especially this coming year andseeing how it goes.
So what's the future look like?
Are you looking to grow this?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
franchise it, especially this coming year, and
seeing how it goes, yeah.
So what's the future look like?
Are you looking to grow thisfranchise?
It travel more branch off, likewe talked about the turkey
thing earlier.
What's the plans, if you don'tmind saying?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well, if I could get some good, like-minded pilots in
some other parts of the country, then I would definitely be
willing to branch out like that,traveling a lot as much as I
can right now, but it's just gotto find those like-minded
people that both understand deerand drones.
(37:18):
I think I think when you go anddo a survey and you're trying
to answer a question for alandowner on how to manage
better and what these numbersmean, that you know almost more
important than being a goodpilot is just understanding deer
and and kind of criticallythinking about, um, what we can
make better on that property.
(37:39):
So just finding the rightpeople to branch out.
Hopefully that'll happen, but,um, this year it'll just just be
me and just kind of take it onestep at a time.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Well, it's uh, it sounds likeit's been going really well for
you so far and you know I loveseeing the pictures and
everything and the videos and Ican't thank you enough for
coming on the podcast andtalking about this and just kind
of explaining more into yourworld of, you know, the deer
management with new technology,and I think it's really really
(38:13):
cool what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, thank you, Ken.
I really enjoyed it andhopefully we can meet up again
in the future and talk aboutsome new things in the drone
world.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks.
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I am your host and rookie guide, ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how-tos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
Hey, it's another week andwe've got another great episode
(00:33):
for you.
So modern technology.
Would you use it to better yourproperty and deer herd,
resulting in better hunting foryourself?
Of course you would.
Why wouldn't you right?
Well, this is where Jack ofMidwest Whitetail Surveys comes
in.
Using his knowledge inhigh-tech drone, he's able to
(00:54):
tell you so much more about yourproperty and give you a deer
herd analysis.
I don't want to give anythingelse away because Jack does such
a great job of explaining itall.
This is an interesting one thatyou are going to want to stay
tuned for.
You can find and check outMidwest Whitetail Deer Surveys
on YouTube and Facebook and, youknow, see some of their cool
pictures and videos Talkingabout deer management and being
(01:17):
able to help maximize results toget big deer.
If you have a dog, your trustedcanine deserves to be fed the
best to maximize their best inthe field.
That's why I feed and recommenda Nook Shook dog food For
general health and maintenancein the off season I like feeding
their 26-16 blend With lots tochoose from.
(01:39):
Head over to their website.
Check it out and see whichblend is going to be right for
your dog, from really highenergy to general health and
maintenance.
If your dog has any allergiesto corn or chicken or anything
like that, they've got marineblends.
It's natural, locally sourcedingredients.
Highly recommend it.
If you want to get in contactwith me, you can email me at
(02:03):
huntsonoutfitting at gmailcom.
Check us out on Facebook Huntson Outfitting or myself, ken
Meyer, on Facebook.
Send me a friend request.
All right, let's listen to Jack.
All right.
So yeah, jack, with MidwestWhitetail Deer Surveys.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Thank you for having me, ken, looking forward to
talking today.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah.
So I mean, before we get delveright into all of this, you know
, if you don't mind saying, ifyou could sum up yourself in a
few sentences where you're from,and kind of, I guess have you
always been hunting and fishing,or?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, jack Houston, from central Missouri, born and
raised here my whole life,started Midwest Deer Surveys
several years ago doing all thisthermal drone stuff.
But yeah, I've been an avidhunter and managed land with my
dad for my whole life, chasedwhitetails and kind of just been
(03:06):
Midwest guy, love turkeyhunting too, but kind of that
passion grew into helping otherlandowners with it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yep, do you do any turkey surveys and stuff with
your drone as well?
I just got into turkey huntingthis past year and I can see how
people get the addiction andget hooked into it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I do not.
We can see them on our surveys.
It's just not something I'veoffered, but definitely
potential for doing that kind ofthing if somebody really wanted
it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose You're already set up to do, to
do it really, I guess yeah,absolutely uh, so yeah, I'm
really curious about how you Imean you so you grew up hunting,
fishing, and then what got youinto the drone?
Because you started with deerrecovery first, was it?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
that is true.
Okay, yeah, I kind of kind ofplanned going in that first
season to maybe jump into alittle bit of this, but um
didn't realize kind of thepotential and how many people I
could really help with it.
So I just saw I'm sure peoplehave heard of the company drone
deer recovery with mike yoder.
(04:23):
I saw them about three years agoonline and saw what what that
technology could do and I waslike, hey, I can, I can do this
um, and then didn't think itturned into anything like it is
now but be localized and helppeople find the deer, and that's
(04:43):
kind of what it was in thebeginning.
It was kind of fun and I uh,I'm real analytical love, love
management for deer um, almostmore than the hunting aspect,
yeah, and so I just saw it as agreat tool to um, you know, help
people find out how many deerthey have.
(05:05):
And from hunting differentproperties, some struggled with
low deer densities.
I mean you might see one deeron a hunt to another farm not
very far away that had too manydeer given the level of habitat
and it was definitely affectingthe herd there that I just knew
(05:27):
how important it was to manage adeer herd from from a number
standpoint, and so startedoffering it as a service and
then just grew from there, okayyeah, I was curious how you got
going with it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So I mean, was there a big learning curve with just
getting a drone, for instance?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
just starting with that, I had had a little DJI
before so I knew a little bitabout the operating system.
I always tell people it takes,you know, probably 20, 30 hours
to get kind of comfortable withit.
Um, or says it takes part 107if you want to do it
(06:10):
commercially, which is just adrone drone aviation test, but
nothing too hard if you reallywant to do it okay, yeah, I had
a little experience with onelast year.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I didn't get to use it, but I got to see them used.
I had uh, the neighbors hadsomeone visiting they didn't
think set off fireworks.
All my cows went through thefence and were out for about a
week and we had a guy come inwith a thermal drone and it was
midsummer, the foliage couldn'tbe any thicker and, sure enough,
after a bit we ended up findingthem and he was able to guide
(06:43):
us because he could see us andguide us to the cows and push
them out with the drone.
I was like that's pretty cool,but we ended up finding some
deer and I think even a raccoonand stuff as we were looking for
the cows.
It was really neat.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, that's awesome.
There's so many uses for them.
So, missing people, missinganimals, deer there's a lot of a
lot of great opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, so you got into this.
Um, how far do you travel?
You're in Missouri.
How far does do you take yourbusiness or does?
Have you not set a limit yet?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
There's no limit.
Um, I had a meeting with aperson in Florida yesterday.
Oh wow, I kind of travel allover this year.
It'll kind of be as of rightnow Ohio to Wisconsin, to South
Dakota, down to Arkansas, downto Alabama.
(07:43):
So I cover a lot of the middlepart of the United States, but
always open to working somewhereelse.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Okay, wow, that's pretty cool.
What would be say the averageland mass on these properties
that you go to?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's anywhere from 4,200 acres that's the biggest
property I've ever done all theway down to um like a 40 acre
partial, and most properties areprobably 150 to 200.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, yep, so not a bad size to work with, really.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Mm-hmm, I would say maybe I do a lot of properties
in the 400 to 500-acre range.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Okay, yeah, so that gives you, yeah, that's a fair
amount to work with with thelandowner and explaining on you
know.
So I guess, before I say that,how about you explain how it
works?
So the landowner calls you outto do you know kind of a herd
analysis survey and what's theinitial meeting like with them?
(08:58):
Phone call.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
We just look over the property, um, agree on a time
and date and um, pricing and allthat good stuff.
And then we pick a couple ofweek window when the weather
will be that uh, when, when agood weather day comes up, and
we'll, we'll get it done.
And then, um, let's sayDecember 1st is when we're going
(09:23):
to do a survey.
Well then we might starttalking November 15th, find a
good day, and I go out there,perform the survey with them or
without them, could do it eitherway and then, once the data is
collected, I go back and do someof my after the fact stuff
(09:45):
analysis.
I go back and, you know, dosome of my after-the-fact stuff
analysis, if you'll call it, butgiving them all their
deliverables, and then alwaysoffer to have a meeting to go
over it one more time with themonce the finalized product.
But that's about it on that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, so what are you looking for for ideal
conditions?
Because remember when I had theguy out to look for my cows in
the summer there he was evensaying that some of the trees, I
think, will even give off someheat mainly we're looking for
just a not a hot, sunny day.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, um, the sun's out and it's cooler.
Um, with drone I'm able tofilter some of that heat out and
still see the deer.
But once it gets to be just 70degrees or warmer and sunny,
then we want to stay away fromthat.
Also, if it's extremely foggyor something like that, we don't
(10:44):
want to survey in that.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Right, yeah, that would make it more difficult.
So I mean the time of year youkind of prefer say like the fall
.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'll do surveys.
I mean, I did a survey lastnight, actually in the summer
just in the evening, looking fordeer as they come out into the
field.
Yeah, I'll do those in July andAugust here in the Midwest, but
basically mid-November tomid-April is when I do most of
(11:15):
my surveys, when the leaves areoff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Okay, yeah, makes it a lot easier, Mm-hmm yeah.
You know you haven't been doingthis long and you've obviously
uh, gotten a name for yourselfvery quickly by the range of
area that you're getting callsfrom.
And then you know it was neattoo.
I even saw the video with youand uh, you know don higgins,
which is a pretty big name, theoutdoor industry and doing his
(11:39):
firm and all that.
So I mean congratulations.
It's uh, it looks like it'sbeen going well yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's been, uh it's been a lot of fun and um gotta
gotta meet with so many coolpeople and work on so many cool
properties, so it's uh been areal blessing yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So do you find that you do more work with just
private landowners or do you doa lot for outfitters as well?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Not a whole lot for outfitters Definitely be good to
get in.
I just don't think.
Well, I don't want to talk badabout outfitting, but for the
most part the money isn'tsomething they want to spend.
They're running it more as abusiness.
So I'm working more for justprivate landowners.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I kind of figured that just from
the stuff I saw and everything.
It's like food plots.
I mean I think the majority ofall people that do food plots
are just private landowners, notnecessarily any outfitters.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I know a few.
But yeah, you're absolutelyright, it's definitely a little
bit of a different thing.
I've worked for a fewoutfitters, but primarily it's
just private landowners on theirproperties.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, so are the landowners usually surprised by
the amount of deer you find.
Like you know, they'll take aguess before and then are they
usually?
Is there usually a lot moredeer than they figure?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Typically about 25 more percent, 25 percent more.
If somebody knows what they'retalking about I'd say Okay, yeah
, that number holds prettyconsistent.
Consistent, which I think ispretty interesting really, that
it's almost always that 25%number, 25% more, yeah.
(13:37):
Well, it's hard to reallyunderstand sometimes how many
deer are out there just fromhunting and trail cameras.
So the drone allows us toreally get that number correct
and go from there.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, exactly how do the land owners use the drone
info to improve, like afteryou're done?
I mean, what do you usually goover with them after?
After you've done?
You know your whole analysisand everything.
You've got the drone packed up,you're typing up, you kind of
type up a report, right, andthen what do you guys discuss
(14:14):
after that?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
For a pretty good portion of my landowners, you
need to harvest more deer.
You live in an area, saysouthern Iowa, where I have a
lot of data from and we canagree that certain parts of the
state, especially that southernpart and most of that southern
(14:38):
part, probably has too many deerif you really want to grow on
the top top bucks.
So it's really, you know, howmany deer do we want on this
level of habitat currently?
And then if we're going toimprove your habitat, then we
can hold some more deer andwhat's that?
What's that good number um forwhen that habitat's improved?
(15:00):
And ideally they're going tocontinually have me out every
year to track it, but if not,then we make a game plan for
that.
It's just like I always tellpeople it's like fishing a pond.
You know your pond's so fertileand there's so much food in any
(15:21):
given pond and we need to havethe right number of fish in that
pond.
And really deer are nodifferent Like the broader
landscape is.
You know, not every property islike a pond.
That would be more of ahigh-sense scenario.
But deer have their areas andsome of them overlap.
But deer have their areas andsome of them overlap, and so
(15:44):
it's more like a fluid thingthan just a pond with being all
enclosed.
But we don't want to have toomany and deer naturally in a lot
of these areas want tooverpopulate and most of my
landowners are trying to growthe top one or two bucks every
year on their land.
So I just help them understandthat more is not always better.
(16:13):
And then for some otherlandowners you know we may talk
about, you just naturally havemaybe a little lower of a
population than you want, andhow do we increase that?
Maybe it's planting some warmseason grasses to really help
with, you know, getting thosefawns through the first month or
(16:33):
two, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I mean you're just going over.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
It's all about some people don't understand it
completely the land's carryingcapacity Mm-hmm, and a lot of
properties have.
I would say their carryingcapacity used to be higher, but
because the deer population gotso got a little too high for too
long, a lot of those preferredbrow species have been mowed
(17:05):
down and a lot of the landscapejust doesn't produce the quality
of food that used to be there.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Right, yeah, when you're out on these and you can
see I've seen some videos like,depending on the area, you can
really see the deer, travelcorridors and all that, their
paths.
How important on your land doyou find?
It probably varies by state,but is a water source.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's not something I've tracked a bunch.
Most of my flights are fromthat mid-November to April
timeframe.
I know deer they get 60 toupwards of 70% of their food
from the browse they eat.
So that's not something I'vetracked, but I'm sure there's
(17:57):
some correlation that you couldprobably find there.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'm sure there's some correlation that you could
probably find there.
So when you're going out anddoing this, you're able to.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So you find the deer with the drone and you're able
to mark each deer with like awaypoint.
Is it Correct?
Yeah, we have an exact GPSlocation we can pin down of
every deer.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So that way you're not marking the same one twice
and then you're able to tell,because some people listening to
this are probably wondering areyou able to tell bucks and does
?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
fairly easily Depending on the time of year, I
guess.
So kind of the quick way we dothe survey is we're searching
with a thermal sensor and then,once we find a heat signature
that we know is a deer, based onsize and mark, then we'll
switch over to what is calledthe zoom camera, which is no
(18:53):
different than your phone whenyou zoom in, it's just a little
better and then we can zoom inand see if that's a buck or a
doe or maybe something differenta cow.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Okay.
Yeah, here's something thatprobably people are wondering is
on the properties that havelarge bucks.
When you're there in the fall,say, and you can see their
potential and what their antlersare fully grown, is there
anything that these farms'properties have in common that
(19:25):
carry the large bucks?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The biggest thing I've noticed is the quality of
and this depends on where you'reat, but in a lot of my stuff is
what I would call at least50-50 timber farms in the
midwest.
So maybe half the farm is woodsand most of these farms are in
(19:49):
the midwest, but for the mostpart, farms that have really
high quality timber and um,better timber, more browse in
the area around, are holdingsignificantly more deer and
mature bucks.
So when that timber is better,it serves two purposes it's both
(20:14):
thicker, which the deer like.
There's more cover.
A lot of people walk through aforest and you can see hundreds
of yards.
We're.
That's not what we want forwildlife.
We want it, want it to bereally thick, hard to walk
through, lots of sunlightreaching the forest floor, and
so not only is there a lot ofcover, but there's a lot of food
(20:38):
.
And another thing thing I'vefound on these surveys is deer
will be on their feet eating allday long, and so a huge part of
that is, you know, they want tobe able to stand up and grab a
bite to eat while they're in thewoods.
So having that is extremelyimportant, and it definitely has
(21:01):
opened my eyes on the placeswhere I hunt and manage to
really bring deer in.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Right.
Do you think that this issomething that people should
look into and be more open about?
It's new technology People arehesitant.
It's new technology People arehesitant.
And to being a really effectivedeer management tool just more
effective, obviously, than cellcameras and stuff and being able
to figure out where the deerare, what's going on where to
(21:34):
set things up.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
All that, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think everybody shoulduse a thermal drone before they
buy a property.
If you're going to spendmillions of dollars or whatever
give or take on any givenproperty, you ought to know
what's there, especially if theprimary purpose is wildlife.
(21:55):
We're just able to learn somuch so quick with that.
Ideally, I think everybodywould fly their farm every year
at the same time and and havethat data and be able to track
it over time.
I think it'll help peopleanswer a lot of questions.
Um then, on buying beforeproperty obviously very valuable
there.
So, um, the key is having theright technology and the right
(22:18):
person to interpret thoseresults and guide you in the
right direction.
That's what we try to do atMidwest Gear Surveys.
I think thermal drones are aphenomenal piece of technology.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, absolutely, and that should be utilized.
Your drone's really accurate.
I saw one video where you guysyou know you found a shed with
it, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, that was.
It's definitely possible.
In the spring Got to have theright conditions, Got to be
sunny for most of the day andthen kind of sudden cloud cover.
But I was pretty pumped when Ifound that shed?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, that was neat.
Do you find that a common thingwith a lot of these properties?
Mainly no matter what stateyou're in is?
Do you think that a lot oflandowners more does do need to
be harvested?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
100%.
Yeah, I mean ideally, in mostplaces, we want our buck to
dough ratio to be one to one ora little little more bucks of
doughs.
Honestly, um, and and in 80 ofthe cases that's, we're far from
that um, I'd say my averagebuck-to-doe ratio is about 2.1
(23:43):
to1.
I think is what it comes downto, and that's doing some math
to exclude button bucks.
So that's not just okay.
We found two deer withoutantlers to one with antlers.
No, this is the actual, realnumber of how many male deer are
(24:05):
there versus female deer.
And so I've seen, even in a lotof good areas, like I have, a
lot of deer breeding in evenJanuary.
That I've seen with the droneand that's detrimental to a
herd's health when the bucks arestill running around in the
(24:27):
super cold winter trying tobreed does.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, have you found?
Have you ever found anythingreally unique while out flying,
like if you accidentally foundthe landowner's big, you know,
pot plantation or anything likethat?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
no, not that yet.
Um, I have come across someweird spots in a cornfield
before, but I don't think it wasthat.
Um, I found all sorts of stufftrespassers Once I'm in Illinois
.
I thought this was pretty cool,but I believe they were great,
great blue heron, um, but therewere probably five or 600 of
(25:08):
them and just a few big treesand they all had nests.
They were all just in thesegiant trees um along the river
and I guess it was breedingseason for them.
But you see, a heron, it'susually one at a time and to see
500 of them that close waspretty neat.
(25:30):
I've got all sorts of coolvideos and cool farms, but more
on the deer side on cool farms,but more on the deer side.
Yeah, I'd say seeing thosebirds was probably one of the
coolest things.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, that's really neat.
You're right.
Yeah, I just see one at a timeat most, so that is pretty cool.
A lot of places do define thatthere's.
Do you pick up a lot of coyotes, Like, how's the predator
population in some of theseareas and does that need to be
worked on a lot for some ofthese landowners to have more
deer on their property?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I think that it definitely in open country that
coyotes can do a lot more damageon being more effective at
killing fawns because there'sjust a lot less cover um.
Being more effective at killingponds because there's just a
lot less cover Um.
I know for a fact.
So I mentioned those twoproperties in the beginning, one
(26:28):
that I hunt.
They're only about five milesapart.
One has a really low deerdensity and one has a very high
deer density.
One that has a very high deerdensity is mostly timber Um and
the one that has low density isfairly open and the fairly open
farm has a lot of cattle aroundit, but I know the coyote
(26:50):
population there is very high,which I do believe has a pretty
big impact on the low deerpopulation there, impact on the
low deer population there, and Ithink that coyotes can be a lot
more effective in that opencountry just because there's a
lot less cover for the deer tohide in.
(27:11):
Right, yeah, so I think thathas a big impact on the deer
herd there.
Now I don't necessarily thinkthat's a bad thing.
The biggest deer I everharvested was on that farm.
So maybe there's less deer butthere's bigger deer.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Right, yeah, yeah, that's true.
So I mean, as busy as you arewith this and everything, do you
still get much time to go outand hunt yourself?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I try to as much as I can in october, um, because
once november hits and kind offloodgates open on finding deer
and doing these surveys.
Yeah, um, I run lots of camerasand and sell cameras and
whatnot.
So generally I have a prettygood idea of you know when a
buck is, I'd say, killable in acertain setup and then I'll push
(28:06):
hard to go hunt.
Um, I don't hunt blindly a lotunless I have the time, but I
hunt.
I hunt as strategically as Ican and, um, didn't harvest a
deer last year but I have a fewgood ones this year that
hopefully I can catch up toright.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, I know I like to do it when I'm out.
Hunting is uh, I don't spend apile of time deer hunting, so I
want to stack as many things inmy favor as I can, so that way
you know when I'm out the oddsare.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I would.
The only time I'd hunt blindlyis probably the last week of
October and the first week ofNovember.
Okay yep, and you know you canhunt into November some.
But man, what I've seen, justfrom a hunting standpoint, the
last week of October if you'vegot a deer that you know is
anywhere around, that's the timeto be out hunting them with a
(29:04):
bow?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, before it gets too chaotic in the woods during
rifle.
Yeah, same thing here.
So are you still quite busydoing the deer recovery in your
area as well?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Last year I did around 55.
Um, yeah, so most of those comein a very short window and
probably the first week ofnovember was bow 30, so, um, I
know there's there'ssignificantly more people in
(29:47):
missouri every year doing it,but, um, I think it'll still
increase this year.
I have a little bettertechnology than a lot of the
people with drones, which allowsme to find a few more deer, but
(30:08):
I would say, for the most part,just whoever is, you know,
that's fairly close to you is agreat option for helping you
find your deer.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yep, that'd be a good thing to put on a business card
.
Is I have a little bit betterdrone technology than other
people?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh yeah, it's definitely a selling point.
Actually, the drone I have ispretty much any other thermal
drone out there.
Uh, it's got four times thethermal resolution of of any
other drone and twice the boomof the next best.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah yeah, that'll.
Uh, that's impressive, thatgets the job done.
I mean, it must be so exciting,though, when you're with
somebody they're like, yeah, Ican't find this deer, but
looking everywhere, you know wegot rain, it washed the blood
this and that, and then for youto be able to find it with them.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I mean you get to feel that excitement every time,
multiple times, many times ayear it is so cool and I mean I
don't even mind hunting lessbecause I feel like I gotta go.
You know I gotta go deerhunting 55 times on a successful
hunt, helping these otherpeople.
So I get to feel that, feelinga lot, and it's a ton of fun and
(31:24):
it must feel good too.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You're just giving that honor and respect to the
animal finding it.
You know because I mean, howmany deer before this technology
came out that were just neverfound.
They just wound and go diesomewhere and that's that.
And you know, you got a hunterat home feeling sick to his
stomach and meat wasted and it'sjust so great being able to
have this technology at yourdisposal and be able to recover
(31:47):
that animal that otherwise mightnot be.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I mean, what a waste to just let the animal go
and not be able to use it.
So the drone, for the most mostpart, has solved that problem
completely and I'm sure thenumbers well over 10,000 deer
that would have not been found,that have been found across the
(32:13):
states with them.
Do you all have this kind ofjust just legally?
Are you allowed to use this incanada for something like this?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
um, so I think it's going to go by province, by
province, but as far as I'maware, um, there's not been I
don't think there's been anylaws put in place yet, because
it just hasn't become thatprevalent here, so they haven't
addressed it really.
And I got to admit Canada Imean especially my province
(32:50):
compared to the states we'rebehind in a lot of hunting
things and all that.
It's just, it doesn't seem tobe looked at as much in, you
know, when you're in politicsand making the laws and
everything politics and makingthe laws and everything, um,
there are some areas I mean ournatural resources minister
before was really good at, youknow, opening up the books,
putting implementing better lawsand stuff that made common
sense, uh, but for the most partI don't think though, uh, it's,
(33:12):
it hasn't really come up enough.
And I don't know anybody usingthermal drones, really, uh, to
find dear the guy that helped mefind the cows, I think he has
found a few for people and stuff.
He does a lot, a lot of workwith the fire department too,
finding hot spots and all thatduring forest fires and things.
Um, but yeah, I'd have to lookinto more, but it's just, I
(33:36):
don't know anyone that does ithere and stuff.
So drones are being used justfor you know, checking.
I had a buddy that had a guycome out with a drone checking
an area that was a big swamp andit was hard to walk through and
he was trying to see if there'sdeer trails through it, stuff
like that.
But it could be an untappedmarket here in Canada.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential for, I mean,
you all have different, morespecies of big game up there and
I think I think it's a greattool that could be used for for
managing a lot of those, whetherit's moose or elk out West.
(34:17):
Or said you're going on sheephunt, yeah, and when I was in
the mountains last week, um, Iwas over in montana at glacier
national park, but I couldn'tstop thinking just how how great
a wildlife survey would be inthe mountains I mean just being
able to cover that whole valleyat one time with the drone be so
(34:39):
, so useful and, um, I wish thatsome of those government
entities would use it more andfor managing those populations
of wildlife well, yeah, exactly,and yeah, I think it should be
as well, like you guys in thestates I mean anyone from canada
, canada could admit this.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mean, just your guys' deer management there
alone is leaps and bounds aheadof where we are here, but I
don't know if it's the bigger—Imean, there's some landowners
around that do a great job, butit's hard to get everyone on
board with it as well, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, it's just, you guys do a really great job
managing deer herds and all thatthere and it shows by some
areas where you can harvest, youknow two, three plus deer a
year.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, some of the states are that's pretty unreal
um deer population.
So, even though some of thosestates aren't managed the best,
even though they have those, butum, we, uh, we've got some
fertile deer ground down here,so yeah, absolutely just great
(35:52):
agriculture land.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And then said the more people you get on board
with it with you know, all right, well, let's let the smaller
bucks go and try to get biggerones and manage the does
properly and things like that.
But yeah, it can be kind oftricky sometimes.
So are you doing this full-timeJack?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I am now.
I'm actually still got a littlebit of school left.
I'm getting my master's inaccounting here in Missouri, but
that's kind of taking the backburner and I'm going to finish
up school but really hittingthis drone stuff hard,
(36:34):
especially this coming year andseeing how it goes.
So what's the future look like?
Are you looking to grow this?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
franchise it, especially this coming year, and
seeing how it goes, yeah.
So what's the future look like?
Are you looking to grow thisfranchise?
It travel more branch off, likewe talked about the turkey
thing earlier.
What's the plans, if you don'tmind saying?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well, if I could get some good, like-minded pilots in
some other parts of the country, then I would definitely be
willing to branch out like that,traveling a lot as much as I
can right now, but it's just gotto find those like-minded
people that both understand deerand drones.
(37:18):
I think I think when you go anddo a survey and you're trying
to answer a question for alandowner on how to manage
better and what these numbersmean, that you know almost more
important than being a goodpilot is just understanding deer
and and kind of criticallythinking about, um, what we can
make better on that property.
(37:39):
So just finding the rightpeople to branch out.
Hopefully that'll happen, but,um, this year it'll just just be
me and just kind of take it onestep at a time.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Well, it's uh, it sounds likeit's been going really well for
you so far and you know I loveseeing the pictures and
everything and the videos and Ican't thank you enough for
coming on the podcast andtalking about this and just kind
of explaining more into yourworld of, you know, the deer
management with new technology,and I think it's really really
(38:13):
cool what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, thank you, Ken.
I really enjoyed it andhopefully we can meet up again
in the future and talk aboutsome new things in the drone
world.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com