Jessie Diggins knows that perfection isn’t reality. But as the most decorated cross country skier in U.S. history, her record’s pretty close. In this week’s episode of Hurdle, Emily sits down with the 3-time Olympic medalist to talk about her journey to the top of her sport, what it’s like to embrace the pressure of competition and push close to her physical breaking point (blurry vision and all). She also gets candid about her experience with an eating disorder, including a relapse in 2024, and what support looks like for her in her day to day. Plus: How she feels with under a year left until the Winter Olympics, and what it’s like training regularly in Italy leading up to World Championships after her recent World Cup win.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I reach that point in a race where everything
feels like it's on fire and my legs are stiff
and or going numb, I just kind of tell myself
like I've arrived, like I've gotten to that point where
I am pushing my absolute limits. I'm pushing the boundaries,
and I get to use this as a chance to
see what I'm really made of.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
What's going on? Emily Abadi.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Here you are listening to episode two hundred and forty
four of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I talk
to inspirational people about everything from their highest ties and
toughest moments to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,
more motivated life. We all go through our fair share
of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower
(00:57):
you to better navigate yours and move within tension so
that you can stride towards your own big potential and
of course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,
I am so stoked to bring you my conversation with
Jesse Diggins.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
She is the most decorated cross country skier.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
In US history, not to mention a three time Olympic medalist,
Little Mic Drop there and honestly such a phenomenal human being.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Fresh off of her recent World Cup.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
When Jesse and I talk about what it's been like
for her training in Italy just under a year out
from the twenty twenty six Olympic Games, Jesse gives us
some color on what it's like to train and compete
at her level and the sacrifices that it requires. And
I also cannot appreciate her vulnerability and openness enough when
(01:56):
it comes to talking about her history with disorder eating.
I want to make sure that I disclaim that right
up front. We do talk a fair amount about her
eating disorder history in today's episode, and there is not
a doubt in my mind that her openness can help
so many who have either struggled with something similar or
(02:17):
maybe going through it right now. Jesse gets really transparent
about the hurdles that she overcame in opening up to
her care team to get the help that she needed,
and how she converses with her inner critic, something that
we can all relate to on the regular. Within seconds
of listening to Jesse talk, you will be able to
(02:37):
hear her optimism and positivity, and I ask her, what
does she do on the days that she doesn't feel
so excited and shiny and bright, how does she still
show up to both perform at her best and stay
kind to herself? Love, love, love this conversation. Please, if
you love it, to leave a review over wherever you're
(02:59):
listening to this podcast, whether that be in Apple Podcasts
or over on Spotify. And this is really important. If
you are not subscribed to Hurdle. Wherever you are listening
to this podcast, do meet a solid and slam that
subscribe button right now. It helps the show get more eyes,
more ears, and that is a big part of what
(03:20):
helps me keep on keeping on with what we're doing
over here. Make sure you are following along with the
show over on social and is at Hurdle podcast. I
Emily am over at Emily a Body and got to
give some love to our Daily Hurdle Instagram channel. I'm
having so much fun programming this and hearing from all
of you over there. The link to subscribe to that
(03:42):
to get so much of the same inspiration and motivation
you love from the show directly in your DMS every
day is in the show notes. Last little call out here,
got to give some love to the weekly Hurdle newsletter.
It's our substack that comes out every Friday. The link
to subscribe to that also in the show notes. With that,
let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Today.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I am sitting down with Jesse Diggins. She's a pro
cross country skier. She's also the author of a book,
Brave Enough. We are a year out from the Winter Olympics.
I am hyped to.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Have you here.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I'm hyped too, Jesse Diggins, Welcome to hurdle. How are
you doing today?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I am good. Well, to be honest, I'm a little
bit tired because I've been pushing really hard in training,
so today is a little more of arrest and recovery day.
But overall I'm super hyped. And that's part of the
fun part of this build up for the World Championships,
right is that you get to dig pretty deep and
push pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We will talk about your affinity for digging deep in
just a bit, but I would be remiss if I
didn't highlight right now that you're also fresh off of
your twenty six individual World Cup win.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I feel like every single time I see it as
such a cool and fun, unique event, because I think
the second you start taking it for granted is when
you lose some of the magic.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
You're right now, sitting in Italy, I have jealousy through
the roof.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How does it feel to be in Italy right now? Well?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I love Italy. This has kind of become one of
my homes on the road, and I just feel so
comfortable here. I love the mountains just I feel like
just walking around and looking at these jagged peaks of
the Dolomites, I feel like my soul is just like, oh,
I'm a home, Like this is great, and the people
are so nice too. I've been making friends and meeting
(05:48):
new people and it's just been a really awesome place
so I spend I've been spending a lot of time
in Italy this year, and I've been really happy about that.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Not a bad place to be. Do you get to
travel with your husband as well?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Not as much as we would love. He does not
get quite as much flexibility with his job and he
can't really work from home. But he did get to
come over to Italy after the tour to ski and
we had a training camp in Lavigno and that was
really really fun because we've got to ski together, which
is pretty rare for us. We don't often get to
actually ski together.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That's so special.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
And also I would be remiss if I didn't say,
with a year out from the Olympics and them also
being in Italy, is there a certain feeling in the
air already, I.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Would say so.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So skiing around Pasolovatsa, Like, first of all, it's so
cool skeing. How many people are just out there on
the trail skiing, like people training for the Marcia Langa,
which I guess that already happened, but now they're training
for the Vosslo but people training for everything, and then
people just out there having fun and just you know,
stopping for a cappuccino after their ski and just enjoying
(06:57):
being out in the mountains. And when I'm out they're skiing.
I've had so many people stop me to say like
good luck, Like I'm excited to cheer for you, I'm
so psyched to watch you race. I love watching skiing,
and it's just been so cool because I feel like
I'm absorbing all of this positive energy and so yeah
people are.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's so it always makes me giggle a little bit
hearing something like and people stop me because obviously, without
all of the gear on, you certainly could be a
recognizable person, but with all of the gearon, to get
stopped it makes me giggle.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's definitely a new thing for me in the last
couple of years because cross country skiing it is super
big over in Europe, and it's super big in Scandinavia,
right like Norway's weedn't feel like it is a major sport,
but in the US it's been growing, for sure, but
it's never been like one of the big sports, right
(07:52):
And so you have total anonymity when you're training at home,
which is which is really cool. You're just very very normal,
Like I feel like such an average person in every
way and that's wonderful. And then coming over here having
people recognize me on the trail, I still kind of
do this double take, like how do you know why.
It's very humbling and it is super fodding, and it
(08:16):
also makes me sometimes be like, oh my gosh, like
I don't think I deserve this praise from these strangers.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, you are an Olympic medalist and a world champion,
and I was doing my Jesse Diggins research and you
talk about what makes you an extraordinary athlete, and it's
not as in your words and outrageous vo two max
or any specific crazy athletic ability, but rather your affinity
for struggling.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Talk to me a little bit about why you like
to struggle, Jesse.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I know it's funny. If I could pick for myself
any sort of strength, it wouldn't be that. But like
I wish I just had beautiful technique, it does not
come naturally to me, and I I'm not super powerful.
I don't have incredible fast twitch muscles like I just
I physically, I feel like I'm just quite average. But yeah,
(09:11):
my particular strength is being able to shake hands with
pain and figure out a way to move through the
pain and embrace it in a race since instead of
it shutting me down. I kind of I guess I
would say when I reach that point in a race
where everything feels like it's on fire and my legs
are stiff and or going numb, I just kind of
(09:32):
tell myself like I've arrived, like I've gotten to that
point where I am pushing my absolute limits. I'm pushing
the boundaries, and I get to use this as a
chance to see what I'm really made of how gritty
can I get, how tough can I be? How how
far am I willing to go for this race, for
my team, for whatever it is that I'm racing for
(09:53):
right now. And I think for me that is like
an opportunity, and that's why it has turned into a
strength since out of being scared of it hurting. I
see it as this kind of this gift of getting
to learn something about myself. But it's hard to learn
any other way.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This gift of being able to lean into the hurt
in practice. What does the hurt look and feel like
in your body when it's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So this is where people are gonna think I'm nuts.
But sometimes my legs go numb, like up to my waist.
But first they feel really stiff, which is a pretty
common feeling, like that lactic acid building. Your muscles are
getting stiffer. But everything also feels like it's kind of burning,
like my lungs are burning, and it feels like it's
hard to stand up straight and get a deep breath.
(10:41):
And sometimes my vision tints usually a little bit pink,
but sometimes a little bit yellow, and sometimes the like
the volume dial gets turned down, So I'm not hearing
things quite the same anymore. And then recently also sometimes
it feels like my teeth are buzzing, which is a
very weird feeling, like like I literally am feeling the
(11:03):
lactic acid in my teeth like it's everywhere. And then
when I crossed the finish line, I'm also kind of
known for like collapsing in the snow and staying down
for a little while. And I'm not trying to be dramatic.
It's not on purpose. It's because when I'm laying there,
it feels like everything's spinning, like you know when you
have too much to drink. Then you lay down and
(11:23):
you're like, whoa, I can't get up right now. Everything's
spinning around me. That's what it feels like. So sometimes
it feels like I'm holding onto the snow to kind
of center myself, and I'm like, I am not gonna
get up right now because I do, I'm just gonna
stagger around and fall back down. It's not going to
be pretty.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, So do you have a recollection of when you
first experienced all of these sensations and we're able to
push through it, learning that pushing through it was possible?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, it was a team relay, which makes sense because
for years, years and years, my best races were always relays,
and for whatever reason, I felt like it wasn't okay
for me to care enough about my own races, but
when I was racing for my teammates, I would turn
myself inside out and have my best performances ever. And
(12:16):
so back in high school, we had I think it
was a pretty casual weekend relay, like it wasn't It
wasn't for all the marbles or anything. But I was
anchoring my team and we were a little bit behind,
and I was told like, all right, you just have
to catch this one girl from I think it was
like Forest Lake High School or Roseville or one of
the teams that we competed against a lot. And I
(12:37):
was like, oh great, But we had one hundred and
twenty kids on our high school team, and so did
a lot of the other teams, and so there were
like twenty teams out there. So I'd look up the
hill and see a girl in the suit that I
thought I had to catch, and as soon as I
catch her, I'd look up and see another girl, and
I was like, oh, my gosh, which one was I
supposed to catch, and so in my head, I forgot
(12:58):
about what team it was of supposed to catch, and
I just kept trying to chase down every single person
in front of me, just in case that was the
one person I was supposed to pass. And I just
got so focused on the task and so in the
zone that I started ignoring all the warning signs that
you normally feel.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
In your body.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's like WHOA, time to slow down, Like you're pushing
really hard, this kind of hurts, and I just kept
pushing and pushing through it. And when I crossed the
finish line, I had not only passed the girl, but
we had won the relay by a lot. But I
thought I was going to die. I was like, I
can't breathe, I can't move, I'm in so much pain.
But then after thirty forty five seconds, I got up
(13:40):
and I was like whoa, Like that didn't kill me.
I'm okay, Holy crap, Like I think I've just unlocked
this next level of racing. Like I had this massive
light bulb moment, like, oh my god, this level has
been there the whole time. I just didn't have the
motivation to go there until now now that I figured
(14:00):
it out and unlocked, Like I can get so much
more out of my body if I'm willing to go
that far into the pain cave and really empty the
tank all the way. And so that kind of was
this like Wow, this is an amazing discovery. And also
it was like, oh no, now I know what I
have to do every time I really want to race
(14:21):
really hard and get everything out of myself, Like, oh no.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
How has this realization translated across the rest.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Of your life beyond sport.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, that's where it's kind of interesting, because this ability
to push through pain is really really great as a
professional endurance athlete, right, But in the rest of my life,
the ability to just keep pushing through pain and ignore
warning signs has actually been quite a liability. I had
(14:54):
an eating disorder when I was eighteen nineteen years old,
and I went to the Emily program for professional treatment
and got better and learned so much about myself, and
then I had a relapse about a year and a
half ago, and I realized that a big part of
why I relapsed was because I was too good at
(15:14):
pushing through discomfort. Like in my personal life, I was
getting overwhelmed. I was doing way too much. I was
working myself too hard, just a little bit, but all
the time for about six years, and it was building
and building, and I just kept pushing through it, like no,
I'm tough, I'm gritty, I got this, I can do it.
(15:35):
And so I took that mentality that is great in
races and put it into my personal life and started
kind of tearing myself apart because I was too good
at being in pain. And so I feel like this
is something that a lot of endurance athletes and people
in general can struggle with. It's like, where's the line
(15:57):
between acceptable pain for a very defined amount of time
where there is a clear finish line, and where is
the line where it's like this is unacceptable, Like it's
not okay to be hurting for this amount of time
and in your normal life.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I'm so curious to know what the differences were for
you from your first about with your ED to your
relapse a year and a half ago, knowing a year
and a half ago that there were certain tools accessible
in your toolbox that you didn't have when you were
(16:37):
a teenager.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Exactly because when I was a teenager, I didn't know
anything about eating disorders beyond like your very basic like
eighth grade health class unit. And so from that, I
was like, oh, okay, so eating disorders are apparently a
behavioral choice and it's your fault and it's a problem,
and this only affects rich, skinny, white teenage women and
(17:02):
nobody else, like right, Like that's what I thought I
knew about it, which.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Was completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
All those things are basically the opposite. Eating disorders can
affect anyone at any stage of life. It's not a
behavioral choice, it's the way your brain is wired. And
nobody asks for this, and it's okay to need help,
like you do deserve help, that's okay. And so I
didn't know that the first time. So I was basically
(17:28):
drowning in my own guilt and shame and feelings of confusion,
like I'm a good kid, I got a's in school,
I'm smart, I'm capable. Why can't I figure this out?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Like I figured, like, oh, I should be able to
just work hard and solve this on my own. And
I didn't really understand that it's okay to lean on
professionals who have had training in eating disorders. Who are
you know, therapists who are there to help you figure
out what's going on in your brain. And that's the
you know, smoothest path towards recovery and like truly healing
(18:04):
from this. So I also learned that my eating disorder
wasn't really about food at all. It was about control
and perfectionism. So kind of hand in hand with that
tendency to just push and push and push and try to,
you know, and be okay with pushing through pain, I'm
also pretty type A and I love feeling like I'm
(18:27):
in control of me. And if I felt like my
life was out of control, my eating disorder came in
kind of as a crutch, like a coping mechanism, like, oh,
I can give you control, And of course that's also
not true, like the eating disorder ends up controlling you.
You're not really in control, but in the moment you
feel like, well, food in my body is the one
(18:49):
thing I can hold on to so tightly and have
control over when I feel like everything else is chaos
and I'm not you know, I'm trying to be perfect
and I'm not perfect, and you're eating disorder comes in
and goes well, I can make you perfect, So it
was just kind of this trap of thinking. And the
second time when I relapsed, I realized, A, I need
(19:14):
to not let this be a secret, like right away,
I need to tell my sports psychologists, who I'd worked
with since I was nineteen, so she knew my whole history.
Were very close and we had spent years and years
building up a strong safety net so in case this
ever happened, I could fall back on that. And I
told my husband, told my parents, told my coach, told
(19:36):
my teammates, and I was instead of being met with
you know, skepticism or being shut out or being blocked out,
I was met with love. And that was so incredible
for me to feel just unconditionally accepted, like we still
think you're a good person. We're really sorry that you're
dealing with this. How can we help you, Like we
(19:58):
know we can't fix it for you, that it's why
you have the professionals, but we just want to support you.
And that was amazing. So I think all of these
fears that if I told somebody that I was struggling,
if I told someone I wasn't perfect, that they would
reject me, Like none of those fears came true.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Again, thank you for sharing that. How long was it
before you spoke to people about what you were experiencing
in this relapse?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, I would say, because the first time it was months.
I couldn't even admit it to myself, let alone even
think about telling my parents, who are, like, you know,
unconditionally they have to love you. You're their child, and
so like, I couldn't even admit it to myself, much
less to them. But the second time, it was I
don't know, a matter of just a couple of weeks
(20:53):
where I was like, okay, this is okay, I recognize
what's happening. This is happening again, and I realized I
need to shut this down because I know myself and
I know how quickly something like this can spiral.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, totally understandable. And you mentioned this desire for control.
Also curious if there was anything specifically that was occurring
that was triggering this desire in you when this happened.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, you know, it's probably a bunch of things combined.
But I think this had been building for a very
long time. And so after the twenty eighteen Olympics, when
Keigan and I won the gold medal, I kind of
overnight our lives changed and it was exciting and wonderful
and scary and overwhelming all at once. And also I
(21:45):
kind of became the face of us skiing from then
on and had more more asks of me. And I'm
a yes person. I really struggle with saying no. And
I also wanted to do everything. You know, this sport
has given me so much. I wanted to give back
in every way that I could. And that's great, but
(22:08):
there have to be boundaries, there have to be limits,
and I was not setting limits for myself, and I
just was not good at recognizing, like you are pushing
too hard, you're doing too much, and I slowly was
overworking myself and to the point where, like I looked
back on before my relapse, I looked at my like planner,
(22:31):
like I like to write things down physically in a log.
And I had a week where it was like five
different interviews, a couple different podcasts, a board meeting, and
something else on top of double training every day, and
it was like that's too much, Like that is too
much for anyone, but it was definitely too much for
(22:52):
me in that moment. And so looking back, I think
I was just overworking myself and overriding it, and so
my eating disorder kind of came back as this kind
of final warning sign, like, hey, you haven't been listening.
You've been ignoring everything. Your brain's been telling you to
slow down. This is the one thing you will listen to.
(23:12):
And so my eating disorder kind of came in to
bench me and say, like, stop it. You have to
slow down, You have to rest, You have to take
care of your soul and what you actually need in
order to be a complete, full person right now. And so,
even though my eating disorder has not been a good
thing in my life, it has been a functional warning
(23:36):
system in a way, like I'm trying to not see
it as only a bad thing. In a way, my
eating disorder has been something that's taught me you have
to stop. Because if it hadn't come back, I probably
would have kept going like that for years and years
and years, and I would have become deeply unhappy. And
(23:57):
now I'm a happy and healthy version of my because
I was forced to kind of come to terms with
what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
You mentioned the bravery that went into owning up to
what you were going for your experiencing and then talking
to your teammates and your family and your sports psych
and so many individuals in the act of that. How
did that make you feel at first versus how did
that make you feel a week later after you told
(24:25):
all of them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, in the moment, I was just like sweating uncontrollably
because I was so nervous, like, man, like, you know,
there's still and it's not that I don't completely love
and trust all these people in my life, but I
think there's that part of your brain that says you
are so unlovable for this, like how could anyone love
(24:49):
you when you are doing this to yourself? And that
is really scary. So to trust everyone that I told,
to trust that they wouldn't shut me out and say, no,
we still love you, don't worry, we still have you
here like that, it was really scary. And so I
think in the moment it was terrifying. But then not
(25:12):
even a week later, I would say, an hour later,
I was like, I'm so silly for being scared to
tell them, Like I'm so glad I did. And I mean,
it's not that I'm silly. Those fears are valid, but
everyone I told was so supportive and yeah, so kind,
and yeah, I'm so glad that I reached out for help.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I'm so glad that you reached out and to your point,
not silly, but understandably so feeling a little foolish. It's
as though you think to yourself, I've been here before,
I should know better.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And it's not that you don't know better.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's bigger than you, right, It is all consuming, and
so to do the best you can with what you
have in any given moment, each moment is going to
look different than the last, and so you took it
upon yourself to do a very brave thing and move
forward in the way that was best for you.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, it's I think that's my biggest message for people,
is that it's so terrifying to need to ask for
help when it's something big and when it's something personal,
and it can be so scary because we're worried that
we're going to be rejected or shut out, or people
won't look at us the same way anymore. And none
(26:23):
of those things have happened to me either time that
I told people, and I stood up told the whole world,
and nobody looks at me differently, And so I think
it's even though it's so so scary to take that
step to ask for help, Like that is the biggest
hurdle that you have to get over, and once you
get over that, everything from there can flow a little
(26:44):
bit easier because you have people on your side who
have your back, who are helping you out.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You mentioned telling the whole world.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
How is that different than telling the people that know
you in your heart specifically?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, that was a whole other conversation because I, yeah,
I told all the people who are part of you
know what I would call my care team, like everyone
I know cares about me and who is helping me
and supporting me. And I knew that, you know, they
were going to respect my privacy and let me tell
people if I wanted to. And the first time I
(27:20):
told everyone it was in a past tense. You know,
it wasn't actively while I was in recovery. It was, Hey,
you know, six seven years ago I struggled with this,
and I think it's important for me to talk about
because I wanted people to see that you can be
imperfect and need help with something and still get healthy
and get better and reach your goals. Like it's okay
(27:43):
if you're struggling with something, you don't have to be perfect.
There was a lot of discussions of like, should you
just focus on yourself right now, because you don't need
to you don't, You don't You've given people enough, you
don't need to help anymore. But I I felt like
I did want to tell people because it's been my
(28:05):
way this whole time is to be super vulnerable and
to open and I wanted people to know like, if
you have a relapse, you haven't failed, because that's how
I felt when I first started using the sentence of
my eating disorder again. My first thought was, oh my god,
I'm such a failure. Like I thought I was past this.
I thought I was better than this. I thought I
(28:27):
had grown and learned, So how could I be here again?
And in hindsight, well, yeah, of course I could be
there again. Like I was completely overwhelmed. But in the moment,
it seemed like such a surprize and I was so
caught off guard by my eating disorder, and I felt
so yeah, I felt like I had failed until I
took a step back and went, wait a minute, this
(28:48):
does not you know, you're allowed to ask for help
at any point in your life. It's not like you
get one call for help and that's it. Like you
are allowed to struggle multiple times, that's okay. And so
I felt like it was important for me to share that,
and the feedback that I've gotten from people has made
me very glad that I did, because I'm not the
(29:09):
only person who has had a relapse of something, whether
or not it's mental health or a relapse with drug abuse, alcoholism,
whatever it is, it's you know, sometimes you slip up
and you need another chance and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, that's okay. Again, Thank you so much for sharing
so much about this. I really believe that it is
through this vulnerability that we have an opportunity to help, right,
But there is such an importance on being vulnerable when
you are ready to be vulnerable. I once had someone
(29:48):
on the show that said, be careful that the sword
that you use to help others isn't the one that
you fall on. So you had this big understanding of Okay,
I'll know when I'm ready to talk about it, and
when I do, you did it on your own terms.
I loved what you recently put on Instagram. You were
talking and sharing the comparison between going through a physical
(30:12):
injury and also healing through and eating disorder. Can you
talk to us a little bit about the parallels between
the two.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Absolutely, And before I do, I just want to reiterate
what you said, like, no one should feel pressure to
share beyond their care team unless they are ready, because
it is something that you can't take back once you
put it out there. And I don't have any regrets,
but that might be unique to my person and my personality.
(30:40):
So I'm really glad you reiterated that because that's really important.
But yeah, So what I have been thinking a lot
about recently is how similar a physical injury is to
a mental injury, because once I learned that, I shouldn't
need to feel shame attached to my eating disorder just
the same way like with my current injury, which is
(31:03):
a partial rupture of the planter fashion in the bottom
of my foot down by wear it attaches to my
heel bone, Like, I don't feel any shame about that.
I can tell anyone like, you know, like, oh, hey,
how's your foot going, I'm like great, thanks, I'm working
on it. Like it's healing and it's not a secret,
it's not weird, it's not hard to talk about. It's like, yeah,
this is this painful thing that I'm working on going
(31:24):
through and the timeline isn't super defined. And I was like, wow,
that's just like an eating disorder, Like no one can
see the injury in my foot, it's invisible, it's on
the inside, and there isn't an exact timeline. Like everyone
heals differently, and what everyone can do while they're healing
(31:45):
is different. Like I might be able to do these
sort of modes of training, but not these different kinds
of training modes, and that's unique to me and it
shouldn't be compared to anybody else. And I also am
leaning on the medical professionals to help me out with
my foot. You know, even though I am a strong,
capable woman, I don't need to heal my own foot.
(32:05):
It's okay for me to ask for help. And the
same with my eating disorder. So yeah, I've just found
that there's so many different parallels here, and it's taught
me patients in both realms.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think, is it planter fascis stuff. The worst.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Wild a tear is very different than standard planter fascy iteas,
But it is the injury that just keeps on giving.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
It really is And you know what's interesting is when
I shared with people like, hey, here's what's going on
with my foot, I had so many people reach out
to the point where I was like, wait, does everyone
in the world have plantar fasci itis, Like I think everyone.
It's like, it's a very relatable injury. There, I know
(32:52):
what that feels like.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, I know what that feels like too.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
I feel like I've dealt with it on and off
for like the past ten years.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Right now we're in like a chill phase.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
But I can really sympathize with how frustrating it is
and this idea that you have no timeline, there is
no this is exactly how long it's going to be
not feeling your best for It's almost as though with
planter fasci itis that sometimes, at least from my own experience,
I almost wish that I broke something because then I
had a clear indication of how long I'd be down
(33:21):
and out.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, exactly. I feel like in my case, I am
very fortunate because I could keep raising, whereas a stress
fracture would have been the end of my season. But yeah,
with a with a stress fractor, like you know, like
and you can get act ray and be like it's
hailed done, and with this it's it's very nebulous, and
so that's what's made it very interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Oh, very interesting for you also an understandable thing. When
did you start struggling with this bout of planter issues?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
So it came on very quickly, just a couple days
before the start of the tour to Ski, which was
twenty eighth, So it came on like right around Christmas time.
And I think it's because I was doing some training
runs in new soft snow and I wasn't quite used
to running on such an unstable surface, and they weren't
crazy long runs. But for me, my feet have been
(34:19):
basically my weakest link my entire career. They are just
incredibly delicate and fragile, which is unfortunate. But it came
on really quickly, so within like three days, I was like, Oh,
I'm not running anymore, that's not happening. And then during
the tour at some point, which I believe it was
one of the first classic races because it had been
(34:40):
painful and uncomfortable, But then after one of these races,
all of a sudden, I was like, I can't walk
this is a new sensation, like it feels like my
foot is tearing in half. And we didn't know quite
what was going on, and it wasn't getting worse. It
was just holding steady. So we determined, like, all right,
it's fine for me to finish the tour if I
(35:00):
and at that point, and I would say, also, it's
important to acknowledge, like we were working with pets and
doctors and we were very carefully monitoring, like all right,
this is quite painful, but because it's not continuing to
get worse, we felt like, all right, it's safe to
hold steady here, because otherwise there are certain kinds of
pain that are not okay to race through. And then
(35:22):
there are other injuries where it's like, well, you can't
make it worse, so if you want to go ahead,
but and this was the second category, but yeah, it was.
It was incredibly painful, and then after that we got
the MRI and figure it out like all right, here's
our game plan. And it's been steadily improving since then.
But it is it is slow. It is it is
(35:46):
a day by day situation.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
A day by day situation.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So many people that have struggled with the injury regardless
of what it is, can really feel that. Now, I
would be remiss if I didn't ask you, as a
cross country skier for a little bit of intel for
someone who's unfamiliar with the sport may have an interest
in trying it out. What are three foundational tips for
(36:10):
someone to give cross country skiing a whirl.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I always tell people sign up for a lesson first,
because that will make it so much more fun, and
commit to trying it a couple times, because the learning
curve is really steep, but it is just really it's challenging,
like it's physically a hard sport, but once you get
some of the technique down, it becomes so fun and
(36:38):
so enjoyable. So I always tell people like, sign up
for a lesson first, to really focus on the technique
of it, and then give give it a few tries
before you really make a judgment about whether or not
you like it, because usually by the time you give
it a couple of tries, you're like, oh, this is
it is so fun being able to glide through the
woods and through fields on these gorgeous trails your own power.
(37:00):
There's something so incredibly empowering about that, and it's really fun.
But I guess the other thing I would tell people
is it's a little bit like running in that it
is what you make it. So yeah, you can go
out and smash a marathon at record speed, or you
can go for a job with your friends and it's
super social and it doesn't have to hurt and it
(37:22):
can be just fun and like a great workout, and
cross country skiing is the same way, like it really
is what you make it and it can be super social.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I know you played a lot of different sports when
you were younger, and at one point you had aspirations
to be a pole vaulter and a hurdler and a
triple jumper.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
But what was it that made you choose to stick
with ski?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I would say the people and the culture. That's what
really pulled me. And it was just so welcoming and
open and just it was about trying your hardest and
getting what you could out of yourself in but it
wasn't just focused on results, and it was just a
really collaborative team atmosphere and I'm really really grateful for that,
(38:07):
like all the volunteer coaches, all my teammates, all the
people surrounding me in that community, of skiing in the Midwest.
It was just like a beautiful way to get into
the sport, and it made me just totally fall in
love with it. And then after that, once I started
racing more for the team, because I was purely focused
(38:29):
on scoring points for the team, but then I slowly
started to realize, like, oh, I actually like racing, like
for the sake of racing, and like trying to beat
the clock on this course, and how fast can I
take these downhill corners and how you know, how quickly
can I scamper up these hills? And I started to
really get into the challenge of it too. So I
(38:49):
think something something about the challenge of the sport really
spoke to me. And maybe that's because it is so
different where you know, in track and field, for example,
you always have times, there are records, you know exactly
what workout splits. You know, here's my mile split, here's
my four hundred split, you know, if you're on track
(39:12):
or not. It's very black and white that way. But
with cross country skiing, times are basically irrelevant because the
snow is different and the course is different, and so
you don't have splits, you don't have records. It's just
on this day, with this snow, on this course, how
hard can I go? And I was really drawn to that.
It's just a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
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Speaker 2 (39:42):
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(41:39):
outside of the I want to do the best I
can for the team mentality and start to embrace pushing
the boundaries of your own potential as a solo athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I think around the time I started going to junior
nationals when I was oh, what was I then, fifteen
sixteen years That's when I started realizing like, Oh, like,
I'm really enjoying training hard and training in the summer
as well, and I'm really enjoying racing, and I think
I want to keep taking it to the next level
and see like can I race at junior Nationals? Can
(42:14):
I reset senior Nationals? Can I make the World Championship team?
But I will say I was all I was always
very focused on my team as well. Within that, so
even though racing is predominantly individual, we do have some relays,
but we don't get that many of them. It's mostly
an individual sport. But I am still so focused on
the way we train and support each other and push
(42:36):
each other to be better as a team.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
We talked about how you like to push yourself when
it comes to racing. How have you learned to gauge
that when it comes to your training versus the effort
that you're going to put out on the big day.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Oh, that makes a lot of sense, because you can't
just go one hundred percent all the time. You're gonna
burn out, You're gonna get overtrained in. And that's a
really tricky line to walk because I feel like I'm
always kind of trying to feather that line of like
how hard can I push it while still being able
(43:11):
to recover and come back from this? And so I
guess some of it is, honestly the answers. I haven't
done it well all the time. I've definitely had years
where I overtrained. In twenty fifteen, before the World Championships,
I had to give myself two weeks of emergency rests,
like a month or two before the season started because
I had overdone it and I was cooked, and I
(43:32):
was able to come back and still salvage a good season.
But I think I've learned that I have a few
different tells when it comes to training and when I'm
starting to push it too hard. The first is my mood,
Like if I get sad for pretty much no explainable reason,
I know I'm pretty tired, because at baseline, I'm a
(43:54):
pretty happy person. And if I'm just kind of out
of it and like a little bit mil and call
you for no reason, I'm like, oh, that I'm like
starting to get deeply tired here, and I need to
be very careful that I'm not digging too deep a
hole because I need to climb back out of this.
And the other is like my sleep. How you know
if it's starting to be hard to sleep or hard
(44:16):
to get out of bed in the morning, is it
hard to get motivated or is it hard for me
to be motivated to train? Because the other thing besides
being a pretty happy person is that I love training,
Like I love going out there and pushing myself and
getting to be outside and even even when we're not
in beautiful places, I just love the idea of getting
(44:37):
to challenge myself and trying to become one percent better.
And if I wake up and I'm like, ah, I
don't really feel like it, then I'm like, WHOA hit
the brakes, Like this is a big deal because I'm
I'm maybe on the edge of being sick. I'm probably
really tired, and that I need to really pay attention
to those signals that I'm getting from my brain.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's really impressive of that you have that level of
awareness to signify when something isn't exactly going right, because
so many may have that awareness but not listen. And
you not only have it, but then also know your
body and yourself enough to say, okay, I need to
(45:21):
shut it down.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Well, that only comes from the experience of not listening
a couple times, right, Yeah, so I had to learn
the hard way, which I think, I mean to be honest,
I wish I was that person who could watch the
mistakes of others and be like, aha, I've learned the secrets.
I will never do that, But like most people, I
had to experience it myself to be like, Okay, these
(45:45):
are these serious warning signs, and these are the things
that I should not push through, and these other things
I can push through. And so it's yeah, it's been
a bit of trial and error to get to this point,
which is why it's so fun being an older athlete,
because you have all these years and all these thousands
of hours of training to finally be able to use
(46:06):
that knowledge that you've earned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I appreciate that older athlete and the age thirty three
really go hand in hand here.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Well, when you think about the general scheme of Olympic sports,
I'm on the older end.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
What you're saying, though, is entirely understandable.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
This concept that we can watch others struggle, but until
you go through the struggle yourself, you don't know how
you are going to respond, and then you don't really
have that.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Lesson necessarily ingrained.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
It's similar to the conversation that we were having between
injury and your eating disorder. Right, these are things that
are so difficult and sad and frustrating as we are
experiencing them, But as with any hurdle, they give us
this opportunity to then decide that we can move forward
with this new information, equipping us for whatever challenge or
(47:01):
hurdle comes next.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Exactly. So I think it's nice to think, like, Okay,
this hard thing that I'm going through right now, this
is going to serve me in the future, whether it's
an injury, whether it's a mental injury, whether it's just
like oh I alway did it on the training, Like
I'm this will serve me in the future because I'm
learning from this, I'm taking lessons, you know, and it's
(47:24):
it's not just pain and suffering for no reason, like
I am going to come back stronger. I'm going to
build from this, and then I won't make that same mistake,
or I'll recognize those warning signs, or if I have
another relapse, I know to tell people right away and
then I will suffer less. And so I think it's
there is something to the knowledge that at least you're
(47:47):
getting something, you know, some some crucial knowledge and insight
from it.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
You touched on being a positive person.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
It would take someone like one minute of listening to
you speak to agree with that sentiment.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
What a Jesse Diggins do on the days where she's.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Not feeling so shiny or excited or stellar in her
own body? How do you handle that? And what's your
inner dialogue looking like these days?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
That's a great question, especially right now because there is
starting to be some pressure building as we come to
the World Championships. And on the one hand, that's great.
I've worked my whole life to be in a position
of pressure to be able to hold that and carry
that and and be that person who can accept that pressure.
(48:34):
At the other on the other side, like it sucks
to feel like everyone's watching you and wanting to see
you deliver something, and you can have those moments of
self doubt, like, oh my gosh, have I worked hard enough?
Have I worked too hard?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Am I resting enough? Am I resting too much? You know?
It's so hard to know. And I'm not immune to
those moments of self doubt or self questioning and wondering,
you know, like Wow, someday it will be so nice
when my body is not my job. Like, there's definitely
moments when I think about that. But on the other side,
(49:12):
what I ask myself when I'm going through those questioning
moments and all those doubts is just a very simple question.
It's am I doing the best I can right now?
And that's it? Am I doing the best I can?
And usually the answer is, well, yeah, I am doing
the best I can, Like I'm putting my whole heart
out there, and I'm training as smart as I can,
(49:35):
and I'm making the best choices that I can in
this moment with the information I have. And if the
answer is no, I'm not doing the best I can,
then I need to have a little conversation with myself.
It's like, well why not? Like do you still love
what you're doing? Is this still the right goal for you?
Why is it that you think you need to feel
this pressure for World Championships? Is it to please other people?
(49:56):
Or is it because you want it? So then there's
some other conversations that need to happen. But if the
answer is yeah, I'm putting it all out there and
I'm doing the best, then are the best for me
in this moment doesn't have to be the best compared
to anyone else. Then I'm like, all right, I need
to be satisfied with that, because I would never turn
to a teammate or a friend or a family member
(50:18):
who is doing their best and be like it's not
good enough. I would never say that to anyone else,
So why would I say that to myself?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Wow, you're asking yourself so many great questions in your
process here, which beckons the question from me. Have you
ever set out for a specific goal, done this level
of inquiry on the journey to that goal, and made
the decision that you wanted to pivot?
Speaker 2 (50:46):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:46):
And I don't think so. And here's why. Because most
of my goals are process oriented. Very very few goals
are actually about the outcome. And so I think, think,
if all my goals were outcome, I want to win
this Olympic race, I want that medal, I want to
win this thing. If it was all based on the outcome,
(51:08):
at some point I might go do I actually want that?
Or do I think that somebody wants me to want that?
But most of my goals, like every year, when I
sit down in May with my coach and I write out, like,
here's what I want to do this year. I have
a whole section. These are like my community give back goals.
(51:29):
These are my day to day goals. Here's how I
want to take care of myself. And I'm like, you know,
when I retire, I'm still going to have those goals
of taking care of myself. Like I'm still going to
want to talk to a therapist just because I think
it's healthy. I'm still going to want to get eight
hours of sleep because I think that's great. Like, those
are never going to change. Those are goals that I
want for me for my life because I think it's important.
(51:50):
And similarly, like my process goal is with skiing is
just how can I become the best athlete that I
can be And it's not in comparison to anybody else.
And so for me, that's been a really important thing.
That's all about this process of striving, but it's not
about measuring you Know.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
What I appreciate about this is that through your process goals,
you are working toward bigger benchmarks. So it's not like
you said earlier this year, I'm going to win this
World Cup, right, you set out personal goals that enabled
you as an individual athlete to perform in such a
(52:32):
way that got you to this next landmark.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
So, I think that that's a really interesting way to
view goal setting and to view someone going after their
own potential is really both in evaluating the journey along
the way and then setting yourself up for success by
ideating what does success feel like for me in my
body as an individual?
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because I think my goals
might be different than someone else's goals, and that's okay.
I'm just trying to reach my potential. And I think
where people often struggle, I think is where the goal
they set isn't consistent with what they're willing to put
in in order to achieve it. And I think that's
(53:19):
where you get this mismatch where you're going to set
yourself up feeling disappointed or frustrated or angry that you're
not meeting this goal. But if you're honest with here's
what I want to achieve and here's the amount of
work I'm willing to put in, and those are aligned,
then you're going to feel satisfied whether or not you're
actually reaching the goal. You know that you're actually putting
(53:42):
in the true, honest effort that it takes to give
yourself that best shot of making it happen.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
And that's why it's so important to be realistic or
make a relevant goal right. So I always give this example, like, say,
if you're someone that wants to drink more water, and
quantifiably you hear that you're supposed to drink eight glasses
of water each day, so you set the goal to
drink eight glasses of water a day, but you're someone
(54:10):
that's only drinking one right now, then you might not
be willing to put in the effort that is required
to drink eight. You could be better off if you
set a goal to drink three, right, And there's nothing
wrong with drinking three, especially if that's up from drinking one.
The only person that will say something is wrong with
drinking three is you if you compare yourself to the
(54:33):
person that's drinking eight.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
That's a great analogy because I think if you set
a goal that is is a reach, you know, challenge yourself,
but it has to be realistic with what you're willing
to put in to reach for it. And then I
think you're you're going to feel satisfied in the quest
for it too. And that's the other part that I'm
realizing is, you know, like in this build up to
(54:55):
World Champs, for example, the other day, I went for
this beautiful hike and it was sunset, and I made
a new friend and we went to the top of
this mountain and we drank tea and ate pastries and
it was just wonderful, and I was like, man, I'm
so happy that I'm enjoying each little stepping stone along
the way. It's not oh, I'll only be happy if
(55:16):
I win World Champs. No, it's I'm going to be
happy if I put everything that I can into this,
if I'm doing the best I can every day, and
if I'm taking the moment or the time in the
moment to be like, Wow, I'm in a beautiful place.
I love training. I love the fact that I get
to hike up this mountain right now, which three weeks
ago I couldn't do with where my foot was at. Like,
(55:38):
I'm appreciating things so much more. There's something that can
sometimes get lost when you get so focused on the
end goal or the outcome and the physical like tangible result,
but I'm trying to remember to step back and enjoy
even the struggle in all these little pieces along the way,
because there's something unique in that and there's something to
(56:00):
be learned.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Yeah, and there's something really beautiful about your appreciation for
every little step. But also that appreciation comes from a
willingness and a desire to be present in the every moment, right,
because that presence is what enables you to have the
gratitude for what is instead of again those words that
(56:22):
we were using before, comparison or asking yourself what else
or who else? Right, So that presence in your day
to day is something that's really special.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, and that's something I don't ever want to lose.
I think that's that's and it's not something that I've
always had too, I should say like I've also it's
taken work to be like, yeah, I need to ground
myself in this moment and enjoy the thing that I'm
doing right now.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I don't always.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Need to be like looking head, looking head, looking ahead.
And that's something that I, I mean, I struggled with
at the twenty eighteen Olympics. I'd finish a race and
be like, oh right, I have to I have to recover.
I have to do this. I have to cool down,
I have to do this thing. And even after we
won the race, I remember my mom just being like,
slow down. You will do all those things. It's hardwired
(57:11):
into you. There's no possible way you're gonna forget to
cool down. But just take a moment and like, enjoy
this second that you're in, Like you've worked your whole
life for this. Yes, you have other races coming up,
and you want to be there for the team and
you want to be there for yourself, but just appreciate
the second that you're in. And I was like, oh
my god, you're right. Like I was rushing through everything
(57:34):
just because I was trying so hard to do everything,
you know, quote exactly right right, And it's okay to
take a second and actually appreciate it. And I think
I've finally started to get better at appreciating the and
the winds too, not just the every day, but like
it's okay to actually take a moment and enjoy this.
(57:55):
I don't have to rush to do the next right thing.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
There's so much power and celebrating the moments, whether they
be small or big, right, and oh my god, the
emotion that is triggered when I watch that win from
twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
It's so special.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
And I do remember in the NBC report when you
were saying that what was so impactful for you was
watching the reaction videos to the win, right, seeing all
of the young women that were so amazed and marveling
at this accomplishment of an American woman. Right, How does
(58:32):
it feel for you to be a role model and
to know that you are for some on this podium
of sorts?
Speaker 1 (58:42):
That is wild and it's a feeling I'm still getting
trying to get used to, or maybe I'll never get
used to it, actually, so I'm not going to try
to get used to it. But it is wild, and
it is honestly, it's a really big privilege and it's
honor and it's something that I don't take lightly. I
recognize that there are a lot of little kids watching,
and I think it's really cool to be able to
(59:05):
inspire with the big moments when you win. But I
feel it even more acutely in the moments when everything
goes wrong and when you don't win. How do you react?
You know there's a lot of kids watching. Are you
the person who throws a fit and you know, breaks
your pull over your knee and storms off. Or are
you the person that congratulates the people you're racing against,
(59:26):
still goes over thanks the wax text, thanks the coaches,
Like do you hold your head high and say, hey, look,
I did everything I could and I've earned the right
to be proud of my effort today. And I think
that's the moment when I feel most like a role model.
It's not when I win, but it's actually what I
lose spectacularly and still hold my head high that I'm like, Okay,
(59:49):
this is what these kids need to see right now,
because it needs to be about more than just winning,
Like you need to show that your self worth is
not directly to to the number next to your name
on the result sheet.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
It's so true, it's so true, and it's such a
such a special and unique opportunity that you have. Someone
right now goes to maybe your Instagram page and they
see you're an Olympic medalist, you're a world champion, you're
an author, you're a speaker. There's something like two hundred
and forty thousand plus people that keep up with you.
But when you're at home, Jesse, and you look in
(01:00:26):
the mirror. What is it that you see looking back
at you?
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Oh, I see someone who loves her family and her
husband very much. And I see someone who loves what
she does and is super lucky to get to do
it every day. And I see someone who tries really hard.
(01:00:53):
More than anything, like, I just see someone who likes
to work hard and is always going to be trying
hard whatever it is that she does.
Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I hear it in your voice that sometimes the trying
can be a little exhausting.
Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Is that how you feel?
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, sometimes it's Sometimes it hurts to care so much,
and sometimes it hurts to put your heart and soul
into something and not have it work out, or to
feel like it is so much work. But at the
same time, I think the magic is in trying hard
(01:01:30):
at something. It's not really whether or not you get it.
Because everyone goes to the Olympics and wants to win,
and only only one person is going to win, and
everyone gets the opportunity to go out there and try
and push themselves and challenge themselves and get out there
and see where their limits are. And that's so cool
(01:01:52):
and that's so beautiful, And so I think in some ways, Yeah,
it is exhausting and sometimes it hurts to care so much.
But on the other side, I think it's so cool
that we always just get to go out there and
try hard at something, whether or not we're the best,
everyone gets the opportunity to go try.
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Everyone gets the opportunity to go try. Jesse, final question
for you here, right now, you have an opportunity to
offer yourself a piece of advice going through the hurdle moment.
I mean, let's go back to a year and a
half ago, right, Let's go back to feeling as though
you failed a little bit in this relapse, coming out
and speaking to your care team, and then opening up
(01:02:31):
with your community about what you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Were in enduring.
Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give
to yourself during that hurdle moment.
Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
You don't have to be so hard on yourself. You
are good enough exactly as you are. And that makes
me a little bit sad to say, because there was
a moment in which I couldn't look in the mirror
and say you are good enough. I literally couldn't do it.
My coach challenged me to do it, and I just
started crying, like I couldn't tell myself you're good enough
as you are, like warts and all know, like it's
(01:03:00):
totally fine. And that was really hard for me. And
so I wish I could go back and tell myself, like,
you do not have to be perfect, because I think
every time I've gotten into big trouble in my life,
it's coming from this intense drive to try to be perfect.
And it is okay to be imperfect, Like it is
(01:03:21):
my flaws that make me interesting and relatable and a funny,
quirky little person, and that's okay. You know, perfect would
be so boring, and so I would say, like, stop
reaching for that. Just keep doing the best you can.
But it does not have to be perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Just keep doing the best you can. But it doesn't
have to be perfect. I love it, Jesse. For those
that aren't following you yet on social media, give us
the details. How do they do that?
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I met Jesse Diggins on Instagram and my website is
Jessediggins dot com and that's probably Yeah. I would say
Instagram is probably the best way to keep up with
what I'm up to.
Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
With what I'm up to, I'm over at Emily a
Baddie and at Hurdle Podcast Jesse, thank you so much
for everything today. This was a joy, truly another hurdle conquered.
Catch you guys next time.
When I reach that point in a race where everything
feels like it's on fire and my legs are stiff
and or going numb, I just kind of tell myself
like I've arrived, like I've gotten to that point where
I am pushing my absolute limits. I'm pushing the boundaries,
and I get to use this as a chance to
see what I'm really made of.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
What's going on? Emily Abadi.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Here you are listening to episode two hundred and forty
four of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I talk
to inspirational people about everything from their highest ties and
toughest moments to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,
more motivated life. We all go through our fair share
of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower
(00:57):
you to better navigate yours and move within tension so
that you can stride towards your own big potential and
of course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,
I am so stoked to bring you my conversation with
Jesse Diggins.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
She is the most decorated cross country skier.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
In US history, not to mention a three time Olympic medalist,
Little Mic Drop there and honestly such a phenomenal human being.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Fresh off of her recent World Cup.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
When Jesse and I talk about what it's been like
for her training in Italy just under a year out
from the twenty twenty six Olympic Games, Jesse gives us
some color on what it's like to train and compete
at her level and the sacrifices that it requires. And
I also cannot appreciate her vulnerability and openness enough when
(01:56):
it comes to talking about her history with disorder eating.
I want to make sure that I disclaim that right
up front. We do talk a fair amount about her
eating disorder history in today's episode, and there is not
a doubt in my mind that her openness can help
so many who have either struggled with something similar or
(02:17):
maybe going through it right now. Jesse gets really transparent
about the hurdles that she overcame in opening up to
her care team to get the help that she needed,
and how she converses with her inner critic, something that
we can all relate to on the regular. Within seconds
of listening to Jesse talk, you will be able to
(02:37):
hear her optimism and positivity, and I ask her, what
does she do on the days that she doesn't feel
so excited and shiny and bright, how does she still
show up to both perform at her best and stay
kind to herself? Love, love, love this conversation. Please, if
you love it, to leave a review over wherever you're
(02:59):
listening to this podcast, whether that be in Apple Podcasts
or over on Spotify. And this is really important. If
you are not subscribed to Hurdle. Wherever you are listening
to this podcast, do meet a solid and slam that
subscribe button right now. It helps the show get more eyes,
more ears, and that is a big part of what
(03:20):
helps me keep on keeping on with what we're doing
over here. Make sure you are following along with the
show over on social and is at Hurdle podcast. I
Emily am over at Emily a Body and got to
give some love to our Daily Hurdle Instagram channel. I'm
having so much fun programming this and hearing from all
of you over there. The link to subscribe to that
(03:42):
to get so much of the same inspiration and motivation
you love from the show directly in your DMS every
day is in the show notes. Last little call out here,
got to give some love to the weekly Hurdle newsletter.
It's our substack that comes out every Friday. The link
to subscribe to that also in the show notes. With that,
let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Today.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I am sitting down with Jesse Diggins. She's a pro
cross country skier. She's also the author of a book,
Brave Enough. We are a year out from the Winter Olympics.
I am hyped to.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Have you here.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I'm hyped too, Jesse Diggins, Welcome to hurdle. How are
you doing today?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I am good. Well, to be honest, I'm a little
bit tired because I've been pushing really hard in training,
so today is a little more of arrest and recovery day.
But overall I'm super hyped. And that's part of the
fun part of this build up for the World Championships,
right is that you get to dig pretty deep and
push pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We will talk about your affinity for digging deep in
just a bit, but I would be remiss if I
didn't highlight right now that you're also fresh off of
your twenty six individual World Cup win.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I feel like every single time I see it as
such a cool and fun, unique event, because I think
the second you start taking it for granted is when
you lose some of the magic.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
You're right now, sitting in Italy, I have jealousy through
the roof.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How does it feel to be in Italy right now? Well?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I love Italy. This has kind of become one of
my homes on the road, and I just feel so
comfortable here. I love the mountains just I feel like
just walking around and looking at these jagged peaks of
the Dolomites, I feel like my soul is just like, oh,
I'm a home, Like this is great, and the people
are so nice too. I've been making friends and meeting
(05:48):
new people and it's just been a really awesome place
so I spend I've been spending a lot of time
in Italy this year, and I've been really happy about that.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Not a bad place to be. Do you get to
travel with your husband as well?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Not as much as we would love. He does not
get quite as much flexibility with his job and he
can't really work from home. But he did get to
come over to Italy after the tour to ski and
we had a training camp in Lavigno and that was
really really fun because we've got to ski together, which
is pretty rare for us. We don't often get to
actually ski together.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That's so special.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
And also I would be remiss if I didn't say,
with a year out from the Olympics and them also
being in Italy, is there a certain feeling in the
air already, I.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Would say so.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So skiing around Pasolovatsa, Like, first of all, it's so
cool skeing. How many people are just out there on
the trail skiing, like people training for the Marcia Langa,
which I guess that already happened, but now they're training
for the Vosslo but people training for everything, and then
people just out there having fun and just you know,
stopping for a cappuccino after their ski and just enjoying
(06:57):
being out in the mountains. And when I'm out they're skiing.
I've had so many people stop me to say like
good luck, Like I'm excited to cheer for you, I'm
so psyched to watch you race. I love watching skiing,
and it's just been so cool because I feel like
I'm absorbing all of this positive energy and so yeah
people are.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's so it always makes me giggle a little bit
hearing something like and people stop me because obviously, without
all of the gear on, you certainly could be a
recognizable person, but with all of the gearon, to get
stopped it makes me giggle.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's definitely a new thing for me in the last
couple of years because cross country skiing it is super
big over in Europe, and it's super big in Scandinavia,
right like Norway's weedn't feel like it is a major sport,
but in the US it's been growing, for sure, but
it's never been like one of the big sports, right
(07:52):
And so you have total anonymity when you're training at home,
which is which is really cool. You're just very very normal,
Like I feel like such an average person in every
way and that's wonderful. And then coming over here having
people recognize me on the trail, I still kind of
do this double take, like how do you know why.
It's very humbling and it is super fodding, and it
(08:16):
also makes me sometimes be like, oh my gosh, like
I don't think I deserve this praise from these strangers.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, you are an Olympic medalist and a world champion,
and I was doing my Jesse Diggins research and you
talk about what makes you an extraordinary athlete, and it's
not as in your words and outrageous vo two max
or any specific crazy athletic ability, but rather your affinity
for struggling.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Talk to me a little bit about why you like
to struggle, Jesse.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I know it's funny. If I could pick for myself
any sort of strength, it wouldn't be that. But like
I wish I just had beautiful technique, it does not
come naturally to me, and I I'm not super powerful.
I don't have incredible fast twitch muscles like I just
I physically, I feel like I'm just quite average. But yeah,
(09:11):
my particular strength is being able to shake hands with
pain and figure out a way to move through the
pain and embrace it in a race since instead of
it shutting me down. I kind of I guess I
would say when I reach that point in a race
where everything feels like it's on fire and my legs
are stiff and or going numb, I just kind of
(09:32):
tell myself like I've arrived, like I've gotten to that
point where I am pushing my absolute limits. I'm pushing
the boundaries, and I get to use this as a
chance to see what I'm really made of how gritty
can I get, how tough can I be? How how
far am I willing to go for this race, for
my team, for whatever it is that I'm racing for
(09:53):
right now. And I think for me that is like
an opportunity, and that's why it has turned into a
strength since out of being scared of it hurting. I
see it as this kind of this gift of getting
to learn something about myself. But it's hard to learn
any other way.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This gift of being able to lean into the hurt
in practice. What does the hurt look and feel like
in your body when it's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So this is where people are gonna think I'm nuts.
But sometimes my legs go numb, like up to my waist.
But first they feel really stiff, which is a pretty
common feeling, like that lactic acid building. Your muscles are
getting stiffer. But everything also feels like it's kind of burning,
like my lungs are burning, and it feels like it's
hard to stand up straight and get a deep breath.
(10:41):
And sometimes my vision tints usually a little bit pink,
but sometimes a little bit yellow, and sometimes the like
the volume dial gets turned down, So I'm not hearing
things quite the same anymore. And then recently also sometimes
it feels like my teeth are buzzing, which is a
very weird feeling, like like I literally am feeling the
(11:03):
lactic acid in my teeth like it's everywhere. And then
when I crossed the finish line, I'm also kind of
known for like collapsing in the snow and staying down
for a little while. And I'm not trying to be dramatic.
It's not on purpose. It's because when I'm laying there,
it feels like everything's spinning, like you know when you
have too much to drink. Then you lay down and
(11:23):
you're like, whoa, I can't get up right now. Everything's
spinning around me. That's what it feels like. So sometimes
it feels like I'm holding onto the snow to kind
of center myself, and I'm like, I am not gonna
get up right now because I do, I'm just gonna
stagger around and fall back down. It's not going to
be pretty.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, So do you have a recollection of when you
first experienced all of these sensations and we're able to
push through it, learning that pushing through it was possible?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, it was a team relay, which makes sense because
for years, years and years, my best races were always relays,
and for whatever reason, I felt like it wasn't okay
for me to care enough about my own races, but
when I was racing for my teammates, I would turn
myself inside out and have my best performances ever. And
(12:16):
so back in high school, we had I think it
was a pretty casual weekend relay, like it wasn't It
wasn't for all the marbles or anything. But I was
anchoring my team and we were a little bit behind,
and I was told like, all right, you just have
to catch this one girl from I think it was
like Forest Lake High School or Roseville or one of
the teams that we competed against a lot. And I
(12:37):
was like, oh great, But we had one hundred and
twenty kids on our high school team, and so did
a lot of the other teams, and so there were
like twenty teams out there. So I'd look up the
hill and see a girl in the suit that I
thought I had to catch, and as soon as I
catch her, I'd look up and see another girl, and
I was like, oh, my gosh, which one was I
supposed to catch, and so in my head, I forgot
(12:58):
about what team it was of supposed to catch, and
I just kept trying to chase down every single person
in front of me, just in case that was the
one person I was supposed to pass. And I just
got so focused on the task and so in the
zone that I started ignoring all the warning signs that
you normally feel.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
In your body.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's like WHOA, time to slow down, Like you're pushing
really hard, this kind of hurts, and I just kept
pushing and pushing through it. And when I crossed the
finish line, I had not only passed the girl, but
we had won the relay by a lot. But I
thought I was going to die. I was like, I
can't breathe, I can't move, I'm in so much pain.
But then after thirty forty five seconds, I got up
(13:40):
and I was like whoa, Like that didn't kill me.
I'm okay, Holy crap, Like I think I've just unlocked
this next level of racing. Like I had this massive
light bulb moment, like, oh my god, this level has
been there the whole time. I just didn't have the
motivation to go there until now now that I figured
(14:00):
it out and unlocked, Like I can get so much
more out of my body if I'm willing to go
that far into the pain cave and really empty the
tank all the way. And so that kind of was
this like Wow, this is an amazing discovery. And also
it was like, oh no, now I know what I
have to do every time I really want to race
(14:21):
really hard and get everything out of myself, Like, oh no.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
How has this realization translated across the rest.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Of your life beyond sport.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, that's where it's kind of interesting, because this ability
to push through pain is really really great as a
professional endurance athlete, right, But in the rest of my life,
the ability to just keep pushing through pain and ignore
warning signs has actually been quite a liability. I had
(14:54):
an eating disorder when I was eighteen nineteen years old,
and I went to the Emily program for professional treatment
and got better and learned so much about myself, and
then I had a relapse about a year and a
half ago, and I realized that a big part of
why I relapsed was because I was too good at
(15:14):
pushing through discomfort. Like in my personal life, I was
getting overwhelmed. I was doing way too much. I was
working myself too hard, just a little bit, but all
the time for about six years, and it was building
and building, and I just kept pushing through it, like no,
I'm tough, I'm gritty, I got this, I can do it.
(15:35):
And so I took that mentality that is great in
races and put it into my personal life and started
kind of tearing myself apart because I was too good
at being in pain. And so I feel like this
is something that a lot of endurance athletes and people
in general can struggle with. It's like, where's the line
(15:57):
between acceptable pain for a very defined amount of time
where there is a clear finish line, and where is
the line where it's like this is unacceptable, Like it's
not okay to be hurting for this amount of time
and in your normal life.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I'm so curious to know what the differences were for
you from your first about with your ED to your
relapse a year and a half ago, knowing a year
and a half ago that there were certain tools accessible
in your toolbox that you didn't have when you were
(16:37):
a teenager.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Exactly because when I was a teenager, I didn't know
anything about eating disorders beyond like your very basic like
eighth grade health class unit. And so from that, I
was like, oh, okay, so eating disorders are apparently a
behavioral choice and it's your fault and it's a problem,
and this only affects rich, skinny, white teenage women and
(17:02):
nobody else, like right, Like that's what I thought I
knew about it, which.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Was completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
All those things are basically the opposite. Eating disorders can
affect anyone at any stage of life. It's not a
behavioral choice, it's the way your brain is wired. And
nobody asks for this, and it's okay to need help,
like you do deserve help, that's okay. And so I
didn't know that the first time. So I was basically
(17:28):
drowning in my own guilt and shame and feelings of confusion,
like I'm a good kid, I got a's in school,
I'm smart, I'm capable. Why can't I figure this out?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Like I figured, like, oh, I should be able to
just work hard and solve this on my own. And
I didn't really understand that it's okay to lean on
professionals who have had training in eating disorders. Who are
you know, therapists who are there to help you figure
out what's going on in your brain. And that's the
you know, smoothest path towards recovery and like truly healing
(18:04):
from this. So I also learned that my eating disorder
wasn't really about food at all. It was about control
and perfectionism. So kind of hand in hand with that
tendency to just push and push and push and try to,
you know, and be okay with pushing through pain, I'm
also pretty type A and I love feeling like I'm
(18:27):
in control of me. And if I felt like my
life was out of control, my eating disorder came in
kind of as a crutch, like a coping mechanism, like, oh,
I can give you control, And of course that's also
not true, like the eating disorder ends up controlling you.
You're not really in control, but in the moment you
feel like, well, food in my body is the one
(18:49):
thing I can hold on to so tightly and have
control over when I feel like everything else is chaos
and I'm not you know, I'm trying to be perfect
and I'm not perfect, and you're eating disorder comes in
and goes well, I can make you perfect, So it
was just kind of this trap of thinking. And the
second time when I relapsed, I realized, A, I need
(19:14):
to not let this be a secret, like right away,
I need to tell my sports psychologists, who I'd worked
with since I was nineteen, so she knew my whole history.
Were very close and we had spent years and years
building up a strong safety net so in case this
ever happened, I could fall back on that. And I
told my husband, told my parents, told my coach, told
(19:36):
my teammates, and I was instead of being met with
you know, skepticism or being shut out or being blocked out,
I was met with love. And that was so incredible
for me to feel just unconditionally accepted, like we still
think you're a good person. We're really sorry that you're
dealing with this. How can we help you, Like we
(19:58):
know we can't fix it for you, that it's why
you have the professionals, but we just want to support you.
And that was amazing. So I think all of these
fears that if I told somebody that I was struggling,
if I told someone I wasn't perfect, that they would
reject me, Like none of those fears came true.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Again, thank you for sharing that. How long was it
before you spoke to people about what you were experiencing
in this relapse?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, I would say, because the first time it was months.
I couldn't even admit it to myself, let alone even
think about telling my parents, who are, like, you know,
unconditionally they have to love you. You're their child, and
so like, I couldn't even admit it to myself, much
less to them. But the second time, it was I
don't know, a matter of just a couple of weeks
(20:53):
where I was like, okay, this is okay, I recognize
what's happening. This is happening again, and I realized I
need to shut this down because I know myself and
I know how quickly something like this can spiral.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, totally understandable. And you mentioned this desire for control.
Also curious if there was anything specifically that was occurring
that was triggering this desire in you when this happened.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, you know, it's probably a bunch of things combined.
But I think this had been building for a very
long time. And so after the twenty eighteen Olympics, when
Keigan and I won the gold medal, I kind of
overnight our lives changed and it was exciting and wonderful
and scary and overwhelming all at once. And also I
(21:45):
kind of became the face of us skiing from then
on and had more more asks of me. And I'm
a yes person. I really struggle with saying no. And
I also wanted to do everything. You know, this sport
has given me so much. I wanted to give back
in every way that I could. And that's great, but
(22:08):
there have to be boundaries, there have to be limits,
and I was not setting limits for myself, and I
just was not good at recognizing, like you are pushing
too hard, you're doing too much, and I slowly was
overworking myself and to the point where, like I looked
back on before my relapse, I looked at my like planner,
(22:31):
like I like to write things down physically in a log.
And I had a week where it was like five
different interviews, a couple different podcasts, a board meeting, and
something else on top of double training every day, and
it was like that's too much, Like that is too
much for anyone, but it was definitely too much for
(22:52):
me in that moment. And so looking back, I think
I was just overworking myself and overriding it, and so
my eating disorder kind of came back as this kind
of final warning sign, like, hey, you haven't been listening.
You've been ignoring everything. Your brain's been telling you to
slow down. This is the one thing you will listen to.
(23:12):
And so my eating disorder kind of came in to
bench me and say, like, stop it. You have to
slow down, You have to rest, You have to take
care of your soul and what you actually need in
order to be a complete, full person right now. And so,
even though my eating disorder has not been a good
thing in my life, it has been a functional warning
(23:36):
system in a way, like I'm trying to not see
it as only a bad thing. In a way, my
eating disorder has been something that's taught me you have
to stop. Because if it hadn't come back, I probably
would have kept going like that for years and years
and years, and I would have become deeply unhappy. And
(23:57):
now I'm a happy and healthy version of my because
I was forced to kind of come to terms with
what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
You mentioned the bravery that went into owning up to
what you were going for your experiencing and then talking
to your teammates and your family and your sports psych
and so many individuals in the act of that. How
did that make you feel at first versus how did
that make you feel a week later after you told
(24:25):
all of them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, in the moment, I was just like sweating uncontrollably
because I was so nervous, like, man, like, you know,
there's still and it's not that I don't completely love
and trust all these people in my life, but I
think there's that part of your brain that says you
are so unlovable for this, like how could anyone love
(24:49):
you when you are doing this to yourself? And that
is really scary. So to trust everyone that I told,
to trust that they wouldn't shut me out and say, no,
we still love you, don't worry, we still have you
here like that, it was really scary. And so I
think in the moment it was terrifying. But then not
(25:12):
even a week later, I would say, an hour later,
I was like, I'm so silly for being scared to
tell them, Like I'm so glad I did. And I mean,
it's not that I'm silly. Those fears are valid, but
everyone I told was so supportive and yeah, so kind,
and yeah, I'm so glad that I reached out for help.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I'm so glad that you reached out and to your point,
not silly, but understandably so feeling a little foolish. It's
as though you think to yourself, I've been here before,
I should know better.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
And it's not that you don't know better.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's bigger than you, right, It is all consuming, and
so to do the best you can with what you
have in any given moment, each moment is going to
look different than the last, and so you took it
upon yourself to do a very brave thing and move
forward in the way that was best for you.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, it's I think that's my biggest message for people,
is that it's so terrifying to need to ask for
help when it's something big and when it's something personal,
and it can be so scary because we're worried that
we're going to be rejected or shut out, or people
won't look at us the same way anymore. And none
(26:23):
of those things have happened to me either time that
I told people, and I stood up told the whole world,
and nobody looks at me differently, And so I think
it's even though it's so so scary to take that
step to ask for help, Like that is the biggest
hurdle that you have to get over, and once you
get over that, everything from there can flow a little
(26:44):
bit easier because you have people on your side who
have your back, who are helping you out.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You mentioned telling the whole world.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
How is that different than telling the people that know
you in your heart specifically?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, that was a whole other conversation because I, yeah,
I told all the people who are part of you
know what I would call my care team, like everyone
I know cares about me and who is helping me
and supporting me. And I knew that, you know, they
were going to respect my privacy and let me tell
people if I wanted to. And the first time I
(27:20):
told everyone it was in a past tense. You know,
it wasn't actively while I was in recovery. It was, Hey,
you know, six seven years ago I struggled with this,
and I think it's important for me to talk about
because I wanted people to see that you can be
imperfect and need help with something and still get healthy
and get better and reach your goals. Like it's okay
(27:43):
if you're struggling with something, you don't have to be perfect.
There was a lot of discussions of like, should you
just focus on yourself right now, because you don't need
to you don't, You don't You've given people enough, you
don't need to help anymore. But I I felt like
I did want to tell people because it's been my
(28:05):
way this whole time is to be super vulnerable and
to open and I wanted people to know like, if
you have a relapse, you haven't failed, because that's how
I felt when I first started using the sentence of
my eating disorder again. My first thought was, oh my god,
I'm such a failure. Like I thought I was past this.
I thought I was better than this. I thought I
(28:27):
had grown and learned, So how could I be here again?
And in hindsight, well, yeah, of course I could be
there again. Like I was completely overwhelmed. But in the moment,
it seemed like such a surprize and I was so
caught off guard by my eating disorder, and I felt
so yeah, I felt like I had failed until I
took a step back and went, wait a minute, this
(28:48):
does not you know, you're allowed to ask for help
at any point in your life. It's not like you
get one call for help and that's it. Like you
are allowed to struggle multiple times, that's okay. And so
I felt like it was important for me to share that,
and the feedback that I've gotten from people has made
me very glad that I did, because I'm not the
(29:09):
only person who has had a relapse of something, whether
or not it's mental health or a relapse with drug abuse, alcoholism,
whatever it is, it's you know, sometimes you slip up
and you need another chance and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, that's okay. Again, Thank you so much for sharing
so much about this. I really believe that it is
through this vulnerability that we have an opportunity to help, right,
But there is such an importance on being vulnerable when
you are ready to be vulnerable. I once had someone
(29:48):
on the show that said, be careful that the sword
that you use to help others isn't the one that
you fall on. So you had this big understanding of Okay,
I'll know when I'm ready to talk about it, and
when I do, you did it on your own terms.
I loved what you recently put on Instagram. You were
talking and sharing the comparison between going through a physical
(30:12):
injury and also healing through and eating disorder. Can you
talk to us a little bit about the parallels between
the two.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Absolutely, And before I do, I just want to reiterate
what you said, like, no one should feel pressure to
share beyond their care team unless they are ready, because
it is something that you can't take back once you
put it out there. And I don't have any regrets,
but that might be unique to my person and my personality.
(30:40):
So I'm really glad you reiterated that because that's really important.
But yeah, So what I have been thinking a lot
about recently is how similar a physical injury is to
a mental injury, because once I learned that, I shouldn't
need to feel shame attached to my eating disorder just
the same way like with my current injury, which is
(31:03):
a partial rupture of the planter fashion in the bottom
of my foot down by wear it attaches to my
heel bone, Like, I don't feel any shame about that.
I can tell anyone like, you know, like, oh, hey,
how's your foot going, I'm like great, thanks, I'm working
on it. Like it's healing and it's not a secret,
it's not weird, it's not hard to talk about. It's like, yeah,
this is this painful thing that I'm working on going
(31:24):
through and the timeline isn't super defined. And I was like, wow,
that's just like an eating disorder, Like no one can
see the injury in my foot, it's invisible, it's on
the inside, and there isn't an exact timeline. Like everyone
heals differently, and what everyone can do while they're healing
(31:45):
is different. Like I might be able to do these
sort of modes of training, but not these different kinds
of training modes, and that's unique to me and it
shouldn't be compared to anybody else. And I also am
leaning on the medical professionals to help me out with
my foot. You know, even though I am a strong,
capable woman, I don't need to heal my own foot.
(32:05):
It's okay for me to ask for help. And the
same with my eating disorder. So yeah, I've just found
that there's so many different parallels here, and it's taught
me patients in both realms.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think, is it planter fascis stuff. The worst.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Wild a tear is very different than standard planter fascy iteas,
But it is the injury that just keeps on giving.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
It really is And you know what's interesting is when
I shared with people like, hey, here's what's going on
with my foot, I had so many people reach out
to the point where I was like, wait, does everyone
in the world have plantar fasci itis, Like I think everyone.
It's like, it's a very relatable injury. There, I know
(32:52):
what that feels like.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, I know what that feels like too.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
I feel like I've dealt with it on and off
for like the past ten years.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Right now we're in like a chill phase.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
But I can really sympathize with how frustrating it is
and this idea that you have no timeline, there is
no this is exactly how long it's going to be
not feeling your best for It's almost as though with
planter fasci itis that sometimes, at least from my own experience,
I almost wish that I broke something because then I
had a clear indication of how long I'd be down
(33:21):
and out.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, exactly. I feel like in my case, I am
very fortunate because I could keep raising, whereas a stress
fracture would have been the end of my season. But yeah,
with a with a stress fractor, like you know, like
and you can get act ray and be like it's
hailed done, and with this it's it's very nebulous, and
so that's what's made it very interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Oh, very interesting for you also an understandable thing. When
did you start struggling with this bout of planter issues?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
So it came on very quickly, just a couple days
before the start of the tour to Ski, which was
twenty eighth, So it came on like right around Christmas time.
And I think it's because I was doing some training
runs in new soft snow and I wasn't quite used
to running on such an unstable surface, and they weren't
crazy long runs. But for me, my feet have been
(34:19):
basically my weakest link my entire career. They are just
incredibly delicate and fragile, which is unfortunate. But it came
on really quickly, so within like three days, I was like, Oh,
I'm not running anymore, that's not happening. And then during
the tour at some point, which I believe it was
one of the first classic races because it had been
(34:40):
painful and uncomfortable, But then after one of these races,
all of a sudden, I was like, I can't walk
this is a new sensation, like it feels like my
foot is tearing in half. And we didn't know quite
what was going on, and it wasn't getting worse. It
was just holding steady. So we determined, like, all right,
it's fine for me to finish the tour if I
(35:00):
and at that point, and I would say, also, it's
important to acknowledge, like we were working with pets and
doctors and we were very carefully monitoring, like all right,
this is quite painful, but because it's not continuing to
get worse, we felt like, all right, it's safe to
hold steady here, because otherwise there are certain kinds of
pain that are not okay to race through. And then
(35:22):
there are other injuries where it's like, well, you can't
make it worse, so if you want to go ahead,
but and this was the second category, but yeah, it was.
It was incredibly painful, and then after that we got
the MRI and figure it out like all right, here's
our game plan. And it's been steadily improving since then.
But it is it is slow. It is it is
(35:46):
a day by day situation.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
A day by day situation.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So many people that have struggled with the injury regardless
of what it is, can really feel that. Now, I
would be remiss if I didn't ask you, as a
cross country skier for a little bit of intel for
someone who's unfamiliar with the sport may have an interest
in trying it out. What are three foundational tips for
(36:10):
someone to give cross country skiing a whirl.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I always tell people sign up for a lesson first,
because that will make it so much more fun, and
commit to trying it a couple times, because the learning
curve is really steep, but it is just really it's challenging,
like it's physically a hard sport, but once you get
some of the technique down, it becomes so fun and
(36:38):
so enjoyable. So I always tell people like, sign up
for a lesson first, to really focus on the technique
of it, and then give give it a few tries
before you really make a judgment about whether or not
you like it, because usually by the time you give
it a couple of tries, you're like, oh, this is
it is so fun being able to glide through the
woods and through fields on these gorgeous trails your own power.
(37:00):
There's something so incredibly empowering about that, and it's really fun.
But I guess the other thing I would tell people
is it's a little bit like running in that it
is what you make it. So yeah, you can go
out and smash a marathon at record speed, or you
can go for a job with your friends and it's
super social and it doesn't have to hurt and it
(37:22):
can be just fun and like a great workout, and
cross country skiing is the same way, like it really
is what you make it and it can be super social.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I know you played a lot of different sports when
you were younger, and at one point you had aspirations
to be a pole vaulter and a hurdler and a
triple jumper.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
But what was it that made you choose to stick
with ski?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I would say the people and the culture. That's what
really pulled me. And it was just so welcoming and
open and just it was about trying your hardest and
getting what you could out of yourself in but it
wasn't just focused on results, and it was just a
really collaborative team atmosphere and I'm really really grateful for that,
(38:07):
like all the volunteer coaches, all my teammates, all the
people surrounding me in that community, of skiing in the Midwest.
It was just like a beautiful way to get into
the sport, and it made me just totally fall in
love with it. And then after that, once I started
racing more for the team, because I was purely focused
(38:29):
on scoring points for the team, but then I slowly
started to realize, like, oh, I actually like racing, like
for the sake of racing, and like trying to beat
the clock on this course, and how fast can I
take these downhill corners and how you know, how quickly
can I scamper up these hills? And I started to
really get into the challenge of it too. So I
(38:49):
think something something about the challenge of the sport really
spoke to me. And maybe that's because it is so
different where you know, in track and field, for example,
you always have times, there are records, you know exactly
what workout splits. You know, here's my mile split, here's
my four hundred split, you know, if you're on track
(39:12):
or not. It's very black and white that way. But
with cross country skiing, times are basically irrelevant because the
snow is different and the course is different, and so
you don't have splits, you don't have records. It's just
on this day, with this snow, on this course, how
hard can I go? And I was really drawn to that.
It's just a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
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Speaker 2 (39:42):
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(41:39):
outside of the I want to do the best I
can for the team mentality and start to embrace pushing
the boundaries of your own potential as a solo athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I think around the time I started going to junior
nationals when I was oh, what was I then, fifteen
sixteen years That's when I started realizing like, Oh, like,
I'm really enjoying training hard and training in the summer
as well, and I'm really enjoying racing, and I think
I want to keep taking it to the next level
and see like can I race at junior Nationals? Can
(42:14):
I reset senior Nationals? Can I make the World Championship team?
But I will say I was all I was always
very focused on my team as well. Within that, so
even though racing is predominantly individual, we do have some relays,
but we don't get that many of them. It's mostly
an individual sport. But I am still so focused on
the way we train and support each other and push
(42:36):
each other to be better as a team.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
We talked about how you like to push yourself when
it comes to racing. How have you learned to gauge
that when it comes to your training versus the effort
that you're going to put out on the big day.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Oh, that makes a lot of sense, because you can't
just go one hundred percent all the time. You're gonna
burn out, You're gonna get overtrained in. And that's a
really tricky line to walk because I feel like I'm
always kind of trying to feather that line of like
how hard can I push it while still being able
(43:11):
to recover and come back from this? And so I
guess some of it is, honestly the answers. I haven't
done it well all the time. I've definitely had years
where I overtrained. In twenty fifteen, before the World Championships,
I had to give myself two weeks of emergency rests,
like a month or two before the season started because
I had overdone it and I was cooked, and I
(43:32):
was able to come back and still salvage a good season.
But I think I've learned that I have a few
different tells when it comes to training and when I'm
starting to push it too hard. The first is my mood,
Like if I get sad for pretty much no explainable reason,
I know I'm pretty tired, because at baseline, I'm a
(43:54):
pretty happy person. And if I'm just kind of out
of it and like a little bit mil and call
you for no reason, I'm like, oh, that I'm like
starting to get deeply tired here, and I need to
be very careful that I'm not digging too deep a
hole because I need to climb back out of this.
And the other is like my sleep. How you know
if it's starting to be hard to sleep or hard
(44:16):
to get out of bed in the morning, is it
hard to get motivated or is it hard for me
to be motivated to train? Because the other thing besides
being a pretty happy person is that I love training,
Like I love going out there and pushing myself and
getting to be outside and even even when we're not
in beautiful places, I just love the idea of getting
(44:37):
to challenge myself and trying to become one percent better.
And if I wake up and I'm like, ah, I
don't really feel like it, then I'm like, WHOA hit
the brakes, Like this is a big deal because I'm
I'm maybe on the edge of being sick. I'm probably
really tired, and that I need to really pay attention
to those signals that I'm getting from my brain.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's really impressive of that you have that level of
awareness to signify when something isn't exactly going right, because
so many may have that awareness but not listen. And
you not only have it, but then also know your
body and yourself enough to say, okay, I need to
(45:21):
shut it down.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Well, that only comes from the experience of not listening
a couple times, right, Yeah, so I had to learn
the hard way, which I think, I mean to be honest,
I wish I was that person who could watch the
mistakes of others and be like, aha, I've learned the secrets.
I will never do that, But like most people, I
had to experience it myself to be like, Okay, these
(45:45):
are these serious warning signs, and these are the things
that I should not push through, and these other things
I can push through. And so it's yeah, it's been
a bit of trial and error to get to this point,
which is why it's so fun being an older athlete,
because you have all these years and all these thousands
of hours of training to finally be able to use
(46:06):
that knowledge that you've earned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I appreciate that older athlete and the age thirty three
really go hand in hand here.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Well, when you think about the general scheme of Olympic sports,
I'm on the older end.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
What you're saying, though, is entirely understandable.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
This concept that we can watch others struggle, but until
you go through the struggle yourself, you don't know how
you are going to respond, and then you don't really
have that.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Lesson necessarily ingrained.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
It's similar to the conversation that we were having between
injury and your eating disorder. Right, these are things that
are so difficult and sad and frustrating as we are
experiencing them, But as with any hurdle, they give us
this opportunity to then decide that we can move forward
with this new information, equipping us for whatever challenge or
(47:01):
hurdle comes next.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Exactly. So I think it's nice to think, like, Okay,
this hard thing that I'm going through right now, this
is going to serve me in the future, whether it's
an injury, whether it's a mental injury, whether it's just
like oh I alway did it on the training, Like
I'm this will serve me in the future because I'm
learning from this, I'm taking lessons, you know, and it's
(47:24):
it's not just pain and suffering for no reason, like
I am going to come back stronger. I'm going to
build from this, and then I won't make that same mistake,
or I'll recognize those warning signs, or if I have
another relapse, I know to tell people right away and
then I will suffer less. And so I think it's
there is something to the knowledge that at least you're
(47:47):
getting something, you know, some some crucial knowledge and insight
from it.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
You touched on being a positive person.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
It would take someone like one minute of listening to
you speak to agree with that sentiment.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
What a Jesse Diggins do on the days where she's.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Not feeling so shiny or excited or stellar in her
own body? How do you handle that? And what's your
inner dialogue looking like these days?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
That's a great question, especially right now because there is
starting to be some pressure building as we come to
the World Championships. And on the one hand, that's great.
I've worked my whole life to be in a position
of pressure to be able to hold that and carry
that and and be that person who can accept that pressure.
(48:34):
At the other on the other side, like it sucks
to feel like everyone's watching you and wanting to see
you deliver something, and you can have those moments of
self doubt, like, oh my gosh, have I worked hard enough?
Have I worked too hard?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Am I resting enough? Am I resting too much? You know?
It's so hard to know. And I'm not immune to
those moments of self doubt or self questioning and wondering,
you know, like Wow, someday it will be so nice
when my body is not my job. Like, there's definitely
moments when I think about that. But on the other side,
(49:12):
what I ask myself when I'm going through those questioning
moments and all those doubts is just a very simple question.
It's am I doing the best I can right now?
And that's it? Am I doing the best I can?
And usually the answer is, well, yeah, I am doing
the best I can, Like I'm putting my whole heart
out there, and I'm training as smart as I can,
(49:35):
and I'm making the best choices that I can in
this moment with the information I have. And if the
answer is no, I'm not doing the best I can,
then I need to have a little conversation with myself.
It's like, well why not? Like do you still love
what you're doing? Is this still the right goal for you?
Why is it that you think you need to feel
this pressure for World Championships? Is it to please other people?
(49:56):
Or is it because you want it? So then there's
some other conversations that need to happen. But if the
answer is yeah, I'm putting it all out there and
I'm doing the best, then are the best for me
in this moment doesn't have to be the best compared
to anyone else. Then I'm like, all right, I need
to be satisfied with that, because I would never turn
to a teammate or a friend or a family member
(50:18):
who is doing their best and be like it's not
good enough. I would never say that to anyone else,
So why would I say that to myself?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Wow, you're asking yourself so many great questions in your
process here, which beckons the question from me. Have you
ever set out for a specific goal, done this level
of inquiry on the journey to that goal, and made
the decision that you wanted to pivot?
Speaker 2 (50:46):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:46):
And I don't think so. And here's why. Because most
of my goals are process oriented. Very very few goals
are actually about the outcome. And so I think, think,
if all my goals were outcome, I want to win
this Olympic race, I want that medal, I want to
win this thing. If it was all based on the outcome,
(51:08):
at some point I might go do I actually want that?
Or do I think that somebody wants me to want that?
But most of my goals, like every year, when I
sit down in May with my coach and I write out, like,
here's what I want to do this year. I have
a whole section. These are like my community give back goals.
(51:29):
These are my day to day goals. Here's how I
want to take care of myself. And I'm like, you know,
when I retire, I'm still going to have those goals
of taking care of myself. Like I'm still going to
want to talk to a therapist just because I think
it's healthy. I'm still going to want to get eight
hours of sleep because I think that's great. Like, those
are never going to change. Those are goals that I
want for me for my life because I think it's important.
(51:50):
And similarly, like my process goal is with skiing is
just how can I become the best athlete that I
can be And it's not in comparison to anybody else.
And so for me, that's been a really important thing.
That's all about this process of striving, but it's not
about measuring you Know.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
What I appreciate about this is that through your process goals,
you are working toward bigger benchmarks. So it's not like
you said earlier this year, I'm going to win this
World Cup, right, you set out personal goals that enabled
you as an individual athlete to perform in such a
(52:32):
way that got you to this next landmark.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
So, I think that that's a really interesting way to
view goal setting and to view someone going after their
own potential is really both in evaluating the journey along
the way and then setting yourself up for success by
ideating what does success feel like for me in my
body as an individual?
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because I think my goals
might be different than someone else's goals, and that's okay.
I'm just trying to reach my potential. And I think
where people often struggle, I think is where the goal
they set isn't consistent with what they're willing to put
in in order to achieve it. And I think that's
(53:19):
where you get this mismatch where you're going to set
yourself up feeling disappointed or frustrated or angry that you're
not meeting this goal. But if you're honest with here's
what I want to achieve and here's the amount of
work I'm willing to put in, and those are aligned,
then you're going to feel satisfied whether or not you're
actually reaching the goal. You know that you're actually putting
(53:42):
in the true, honest effort that it takes to give
yourself that best shot of making it happen.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
And that's why it's so important to be realistic or
make a relevant goal right. So I always give this example, like, say,
if you're someone that wants to drink more water, and
quantifiably you hear that you're supposed to drink eight glasses
of water each day, so you set the goal to
drink eight glasses of water a day, but you're someone
(54:10):
that's only drinking one right now, then you might not
be willing to put in the effort that is required
to drink eight. You could be better off if you
set a goal to drink three, right, And there's nothing
wrong with drinking three, especially if that's up from drinking one.
The only person that will say something is wrong with
drinking three is you if you compare yourself to the
(54:33):
person that's drinking eight.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
That's a great analogy because I think if you set
a goal that is is a reach, you know, challenge yourself,
but it has to be realistic with what you're willing
to put in to reach for it. And then I
think you're you're going to feel satisfied in the quest
for it too. And that's the other part that I'm
realizing is, you know, like in this build up to
(54:55):
World Champs, for example, the other day, I went for
this beautiful hike and it was sunset, and I made
a new friend and we went to the top of
this mountain and we drank tea and ate pastries and
it was just wonderful, and I was like, man, I'm
so happy that I'm enjoying each little stepping stone along
the way. It's not oh, I'll only be happy if
(55:16):
I win World Champs. No, it's I'm going to be
happy if I put everything that I can into this,
if I'm doing the best I can every day, and
if I'm taking the moment or the time in the
moment to be like, Wow, I'm in a beautiful place.
I love training. I love the fact that I get
to hike up this mountain right now, which three weeks
ago I couldn't do with where my foot was at. Like,
(55:38):
I'm appreciating things so much more. There's something that can
sometimes get lost when you get so focused on the
end goal or the outcome and the physical like tangible result,
but I'm trying to remember to step back and enjoy
even the struggle in all these little pieces along the way,
because there's something unique in that and there's something to
(56:00):
be learned.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Yeah, and there's something really beautiful about your appreciation for
every little step. But also that appreciation comes from a
willingness and a desire to be present in the every moment, right,
because that presence is what enables you to have the
gratitude for what is instead of again those words that
(56:22):
we were using before, comparison or asking yourself what else
or who else? Right, So that presence in your day
to day is something that's really special.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, and that's something I don't ever want to lose.
I think that's that's and it's not something that I've
always had too, I should say like I've also it's
taken work to be like, yeah, I need to ground
myself in this moment and enjoy the thing that I'm
doing right now.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I don't always.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Need to be like looking head, looking head, looking ahead.
And that's something that I, I mean, I struggled with
at the twenty eighteen Olympics. I'd finish a race and
be like, oh right, I have to I have to recover.
I have to do this. I have to cool down,
I have to do this thing. And even after we
won the race, I remember my mom just being like,
slow down. You will do all those things. It's hardwired
(57:11):
into you. There's no possible way you're gonna forget to
cool down. But just take a moment and like, enjoy
this second that you're in, Like you've worked your whole
life for this. Yes, you have other races coming up,
and you want to be there for the team and
you want to be there for yourself, but just appreciate
the second that you're in. And I was like, oh
my god, you're right. Like I was rushing through everything
(57:34):
just because I was trying so hard to do everything,
you know, quote exactly right right, And it's okay to
take a second and actually appreciate it. And I think
I've finally started to get better at appreciating the and
the winds too, not just the every day, but like
it's okay to actually take a moment and enjoy this.
(57:55):
I don't have to rush to do the next right thing.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
There's so much power and celebrating the moments, whether they
be small or big, right, and oh my god, the
emotion that is triggered when I watch that win from
twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
It's so special.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
And I do remember in the NBC report when you
were saying that what was so impactful for you was
watching the reaction videos to the win, right, seeing all
of the young women that were so amazed and marveling
at this accomplishment of an American woman. Right, How does
(58:32):
it feel for you to be a role model and
to know that you are for some on this podium
of sorts?
Speaker 1 (58:42):
That is wild and it's a feeling I'm still getting
trying to get used to, or maybe I'll never get
used to it, actually, so I'm not going to try
to get used to it. But it is wild, and
it is honestly, it's a really big privilege and it's
honor and it's something that I don't take lightly. I
recognize that there are a lot of little kids watching,
and I think it's really cool to be able to
(59:05):
inspire with the big moments when you win. But I
feel it even more acutely in the moments when everything
goes wrong and when you don't win. How do you react?
You know there's a lot of kids watching. Are you
the person who throws a fit and you know, breaks
your pull over your knee and storms off. Or are
you the person that congratulates the people you're racing against,
(59:26):
still goes over thanks the wax text, thanks the coaches,
Like do you hold your head high and say, hey, look,
I did everything I could and I've earned the right
to be proud of my effort today. And I think
that's the moment when I feel most like a role model.
It's not when I win, but it's actually what I
lose spectacularly and still hold my head high that I'm like, Okay,
(59:49):
this is what these kids need to see right now,
because it needs to be about more than just winning,
Like you need to show that your self worth is
not directly to to the number next to your name
on the result sheet.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
It's so true, it's so true, and it's such a
such a special and unique opportunity that you have. Someone
right now goes to maybe your Instagram page and they
see you're an Olympic medalist, you're a world champion, you're
an author, you're a speaker. There's something like two hundred
and forty thousand plus people that keep up with you.
But when you're at home, Jesse, and you look in
(01:00:26):
the mirror. What is it that you see looking back
at you?
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Oh, I see someone who loves her family and her
husband very much. And I see someone who loves what
she does and is super lucky to get to do
it every day. And I see someone who tries really hard.
(01:00:53):
More than anything, like, I just see someone who likes
to work hard and is always going to be trying
hard whatever it is that she does.
Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I hear it in your voice that sometimes the trying
can be a little exhausting.
Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Is that how you feel?
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, sometimes it's Sometimes it hurts to care so much,
and sometimes it hurts to put your heart and soul
into something and not have it work out, or to
feel like it is so much work. But at the
same time, I think the magic is in trying hard
(01:01:30):
at something. It's not really whether or not you get it.
Because everyone goes to the Olympics and wants to win,
and only only one person is going to win, and
everyone gets the opportunity to go out there and try
and push themselves and challenge themselves and get out there
and see where their limits are. And that's so cool
(01:01:52):
and that's so beautiful, And so I think in some ways, Yeah,
it is exhausting and sometimes it hurts to care so much.
But on the other side, I think it's so cool
that we always just get to go out there and
try hard at something, whether or not we're the best,
everyone gets the opportunity to go try.
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Everyone gets the opportunity to go try. Jesse, final question
for you here, right now, you have an opportunity to
offer yourself a piece of advice going through the hurdle moment.
I mean, let's go back to a year and a
half ago, right, Let's go back to feeling as though
you failed a little bit in this relapse, coming out
and speaking to your care team, and then opening up
(01:02:31):
with your community about what you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Were in enduring.
Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give
to yourself during that hurdle moment.
Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
You don't have to be so hard on yourself. You
are good enough exactly as you are. And that makes
me a little bit sad to say, because there was
a moment in which I couldn't look in the mirror
and say you are good enough. I literally couldn't do it.
My coach challenged me to do it, and I just
started crying, like I couldn't tell myself you're good enough
as you are, like warts and all know, like it's
(01:03:00):
totally fine. And that was really hard for me. And
so I wish I could go back and tell myself, like,
you do not have to be perfect, because I think
every time I've gotten into big trouble in my life,
it's coming from this intense drive to try to be perfect.
And it is okay to be imperfect, Like it is
(01:03:21):
my flaws that make me interesting and relatable and a funny,
quirky little person, and that's okay. You know, perfect would
be so boring, and so I would say, like, stop
reaching for that. Just keep doing the best you can.
But it does not have to be perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Just keep doing the best you can. But it doesn't
have to be perfect. I love it, Jesse. For those
that aren't following you yet on social media, give us
the details. How do they do that?
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I met Jesse Diggins on Instagram and my website is
Jessediggins dot com and that's probably Yeah. I would say
Instagram is probably the best way to keep up with
what I'm up to.
Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
With what I'm up to, I'm over at Emily a
Baddie and at Hurdle Podcast Jesse, thank you so much
for everything today. This was a joy, truly another hurdle conquered.
Catch you guys next time.
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