January 16, 2025 • 67 mins
In this live demo, Doug Carpenter guides Rick Carlson in healing childhood trauma through psychodrama. This episode is an example of Work It Out Wednesday, one of the weekly HMA Coaching Calls. Learn more and join HMA this weekend at joinHMA.com.
Related episodes:
Dr. Doug Carpenter is a clinical psychologist and founding board member of Husband Material Ministries. Learn more at douglascarpenter.com
Rick Carlson is a recovery pastor and Certified Husband Material Coach. Learn more at comebackcoaching.org
Drew Boa, Mike Chapman, James Gianakon, and Marcus Spaur played supporting roles in Rick's process.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today's episode is an exampleof one of our Husband Material
(00:24):
Academy coaching calls Work itOut Wednesday.
At Work it Out Wednesday, weuse psychodrama and role-playing
to work out the issues that aredeep within us, that are often
at the core of our attachment topornography.
The healing process you're aboutto witness was facilitated by
Dr Doug Carpenter last summer atthe HMA.
(00:47):
In a Day workshop, doug workedwith one of our certified
coaches, rick Carlson, with somehelp from me, mike Chapman,
james Janikin and also MarcusSpahr.
What you're about to hear orsee if you're watching the video
, is an embodied healing processand, yes, we can even do
(01:08):
embodied healing online.
That's one of the beautifulthings about Husband Material
Academy.
If you are interested in doingthis type of work, even online,
go to husbandmaterialcom, slashacademy or joinhmacom.
The doors to HMA only opentwice a year, once in January
and once in July, and thosedoors are open now.
(01:30):
So if you find this process tobe powerful and you want to be a
part of it.
Go to joinhmacom and I hope youenjoy the episode.
So I'm going to invite ourcoaches to come up, and first we
have Dr Doug Carpenter.
Hey, doug.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I am happy to see you , man.
Thank you, Good to see you too.
Doug is a clinical psychologistand he is our clinical advisor
here at Husband Material.
He has taught psychodrama atthe graduate level and he is,
like our Yoda, the teacher ofthis incredible tool that we use
(02:12):
to process our past and ourparts and find greater healing.
So Doug is leading an HMA callevery other week and he also has
been co-leading some smallerhealing weekends with me.
So, Doug, thank you for leadingthis process.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You are very welcome, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Mike Chapman is here.
Hey Is the founder of PolarLife Consulting.
He also has a podcast for malesurvivors of childhood sexual
abuse.
And Marcus Spahr is here,former director of care and
support at Husband Material, andMarcus is also a life coach.
(02:57):
I think both of you guys arecertified as addiction recovery
coaches and he's an inner childspecialist as well.
Marcus owns Between the CoversCoaching and you have a podcast
too, now, yes, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
The Between the Covers podcast, where I'm
helping people learn to becomeheroes of their own stories.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Awesome.
And actually, marcus, mike andDoug and I also all just
completed brain spottingtraining, which we're now using
and that's something that I'malso incorporating into HMA
coaching calls.
So brain spotting is anothergreat way to work with all of
this stuff.
James, Awesome.
(03:40):
James Janikin, who is anothercertified coach, leading Pure
Desire groups as well right, yep, and literally driving a school
bus as well.
So you know what it's like.
And then the man in the hot seatis Rick Carlson.
Hey, rick.
Hi, rick is a pastor.
(04:02):
He is a recovery pastor andalso a certified house material
coach, and I'm really, reallygrateful for your vulnerability
and choosing to go through thisin front of a big group of
people.
I'm glad to be here.
As you can tell, we've got abigger group for this, because
(04:24):
in psychodrama, we need to roleplay and externalize these
different parts and thesedifferent people in our past in
order to move through whateverneeds to happen and get unstuck
(04:48):
Just to give you all a previewof what's going to happen.
So Rick is going to share whathe wants to work on today, doug
is going to direct and lead us,and then Marcus, james, mike and
I will be supporting Rick inthis process and playing
whatever roles we are needed toplay, let me pray for us as we
get started, and then, doug,I'll let you take it from there.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
God, thank you for the beauty of how many different
ways we can heal.
I ask you to make redemptiontangible, to come and give Rick
exactly what he needs, amen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Great.
Thank you, rick, forvolunteering today.
I appreciate it.
I know that this is going to bea very vulnerable process, as
it always is for anyone whodecides to share such intimate
parts of their life.
So, rick, if you could justmake sure that you're in a
comfortable seating position, ifyou could just take a deep
(05:50):
breath in through your nose andout through your mouth.
Just do that a couple of times.
Just try to make yourself asrelaxed and as comfortable as
you can.
You know everyone here.
This is a safe place for you.
This is a safe environment.
You've done this with meseveral times now.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
And I trust everybody here and I trust the process.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Good.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Thank you for that.
So I know that you havesomething specific that you want
to work on today, so why don'tyou tell me a little bit about
that?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And this is vulnerable.
But just going back and dealingwith the pain and it all
connects to porn about the abusethat happened around my face,
on my face and inside of my facemy face on my face and inside
of my face and I experienced asa young.
(06:53):
There's two pathways on this.
What I experienced is from aphysical abuse thing where my
dad that raised me.
I did something incorrectaround eight or nine.
I did something incorrectaround eight or nine and in
front of the whole family hedragged my face along the piano
keyboard which caused a lot ofinjuries and a lot of bleeding.
(07:13):
I won't go into all thosedetails, but that was something
that I developed then, that Ijust thought I was an ugly, ugly
person and I wasn't safe.
There obviously was some sexualabuse that I went through and
trauma and that as well as achild and the bigger part of
(07:37):
this that all plays is around 19, I was in a situation where I
was in a situation where I wassexually accosted and I was
forced to do things with mymouth.
That just was not a goodsituation and there was a little
(08:03):
abuse there in other areas aswell, but the the impact that
that had on me.
I felt so gross and so ugly andwhat happened was developed
that I was unsafe, developedthat I was unsafe, don't touch
(08:25):
my face, do not touch my faceanyone.
So I developed that mode ofresponse to that trauma and it's
pretty unique.
I've been carrying that for along time with inside myself and
I know that there's a directcorrelation into Arnie's, where
(08:49):
I viewed porn on both sides ofthe coin and I had to replace my
ugliness to fill that void ofwhere I thought I was the
ugliest and that my face wasgross but yet used as a freak of
nature thing.
I had to look at men inparticular and I needed the
(09:14):
perfect face to replace my faceand viewing that and then I
became that person, no matter uh, what that, uh, what side of
that the coin was, um, in theporn or news.
That is from the past and um, Istill um to this day.
(09:37):
Um deal with sometimes theugliness of my face and I don't
like people to touch my face,even um acts of affection and
I'm like on my face around myface is pretty.
I feel that what really broughtthis all up was, uh, in may I
went to a series.
I had a series of dentalappointments for some procedures
(09:59):
.
Uh, there were like five or sixof them during the month of may
.
They were doing some work.
There were like five or six ofthem during the month of May.
They were doing some work andthere was a lot of fear that I
had Even going to now back up,even going to the doctor.
When they say open your mouthand say oh, or they look around,
I freak.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You freak, what happens for you, what comes up?
Speaker 5 (10:20):
What comes up is fear .
My body goes into a stiffness.
I'm afraid, I'm very afraidthat I'm going to be injured and
also it seems like I don't wantpeople to see inside, because
what if they see what happened?
(10:41):
What if they see what happened?
What if they know what happened?
And this dentist experience Imanaged through the first couple
.
It was very hard and on thethird visit I literally went
into convulsions with my legsbecause I couldn't take what
they were doing.
It was a two-hour process and Ialmost hit the well.
(11:03):
I tried to hit the periodontisttwice because I was.
I felt everything.
I felt the violation, I saw thepiano keys, I saw the, the
abuse, and I saw and felt, feltwhat I was experiencing.
So all this, brought all thattrauma back to you.
(11:25):
I could feel it, I could facethat.
I feel it across my body.
I feel it across my body.
But the entry of violation wasmy mouth and I do recall, you
know, I remember calling out toJesus in my head and even
probably saying the words helpme.
So that's where I'm at withthis, and if that makes any
(11:48):
sense of what I've shared, so Ihave some questions for you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
What would you like or hope to get from this process
today?
What do you feel like you need?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
A release, just a release.
Even as of right now, mystomach is pretty tight, not
because I'm nervous with youguys, I just I feel I feel like
it's stuck.
Yeah, I just want a releasethat I can not feel so gross in
(12:24):
my memories and in my present.
With this and you know, I'mlearning to love all parts of
myself.
It's incredible, right.
It's a beautiful process andhealing journey for sure.
I don't want to look at myselfand look at my mouth and my face
and see that pain or see thatgrossness, and just look at his
(12:47):
place of beauty and that I'm notgoing to be harmed.
Okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So, rick, you've shared a lot here and you've
shared in a very verbal way.
Tell me what emotions arecoming up for you now, as you've
spent the last eight minuteskind of telling us your story,
the trauma involved, theflashbacks that you had starting
(13:15):
in May, around all thisdentistry work, and you've
already mentioned what you'refeeling in your body, which I'm
going to get to that in a minutebut what emotions do you feel
like are coming up for you?
Some anger, anger.
Okay, tell me about your anger.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
It's like a little bit of a boil anger, if you will
.
That I just wish it wouldn'thave happened and I wish I
wouldn't have had to go downthis journey and experience some
of these feelings about myself.
There's emotions of disgust.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Is that different than your anger?
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, okay, so disgust, as you can hear,
disgust.
What are you hearing from him?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Almost like he deserved this.
There's some emotions ofabandonment connected and I feel
in this I just didn't have theability to be able to articulate
, I didn't have a safe place togo and share anything, and maybe
(14:32):
a better way to describe it isextreme amount of loneliness,
with this that I've had to livewith, and with loneliness that
becomes like an isolation island, trying to, of course, read all
(14:53):
the things you know there arethe, and then you try to hide
the pain or some of thebehaviors that have happened in
my life in the past, that Itried to get rid of all that
pain and I'd like to look in themirror and just look at myself
(15:14):
as not disgusting, safe andbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So when you experience this anger, I want
you to just kind of scan yourbody right now and if you could
locate anger.
Where is he sitting on oraround you, in you?
Where is anger?
Where does he feel activated,where does he feel?
Speaker 5 (15:44):
activated in my throat, right here and in the
pit to my stomach, kind of likeit goes straight down along the
straight line down.
How would you describe thatfeeling?
It is a raw.
Raw feeling like a little bitof a, perhaps a control, a
(16:10):
tightness, sometimes, maybe like, like it amps up it amps up.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So I want you to take a minute, I want you to just
close your eyes and I want youto send all your focus to that
feeling right now.
Send all your focus to thatanger and what you're feeling in
your body, and I want you tojust sit here with it for a
(16:40):
minute, really try to get intouch with it for a minute,
really try to get in touch withit.
And of the men that are here, Iwant you to pick out somebody
that you feel couldappropriately represent your
anger for you, who could holdthat for you.
Marcus, marcus, marcus, are youwilling to be anchored?
(17:06):
Thank you, marcus.
Okay, rick, just go back intothat, lean into that feeling,
and you had said earlier thatthis anchor just holds the
feelings of why did this have tohappen?
It's just boiling.
(17:27):
I wish it wouldn't havehappened.
Is there anything else thispart is saying as you focus?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
in on it I don't think there's anything else
right now.
That's saying.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But he's got a lot of things he wished hadn't
happened.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
There's regret, there's a big feeling of regret.
Guilt there's guilt.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I think that's probably another feelings there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but anger isupset about what your dad did to
your face on the piano keys,about the sexual assault, the
sexual abuse, abuse, and maybeeven the dentist, the
(18:32):
orthodontist, when he wastouching your face.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Was there any anger there for him?
Yeah, there was a lot of angerin there because they were
everywhere inside my mouth.
I felt like I had to fight formy life.
I was paralyzed because I hadno control.
I had no control at all overthis and I couldn't defend
myself.
I could not defend myself and Ifelt really weak because I was
(18:59):
a vulnerable person there and itpissed me off that I was
feeling these things and that itwas out of my control and I
felt like the dentist didn'tcare.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't where you were at.
Yeah, while you're focusing inon yourself, I want you to find
that feeling of disgust in yourbody.
Where is that?
In your mouth, in your face?
(19:36):
In my ear?
All right here, okay, yeah, Ijust want you to send all your
attention and your focus to thatpart right now and tell me who
among your friends here couldyou let represent that feeling
(19:57):
of disgust for you.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
I choose Drew.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Okay, drew Drew are you willing to play disgust?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes, thank you and Rick, you talked earlier about.
There's a part of you thatfeels like you deserved this.
Yeah, is there anything morethat this part is saying right
now?
What's coming up for you as youfocus on that part?
Speaker 5 (20:34):
that I should have been more intelligent, not been
in those locations.
I should have been smarter.
Did I set myself up for this?
Set myself up for this?
I should have been smarter as akid.
I set myself up for this.
Set myself up for this.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
This part's really yeah, this part's really making
you responsible.
And then focus on thatabandonment part.
Where can you locate that?
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Right here, yeah by your heart.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Okay, who here could represent your abandonment part?
Mike.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Okay, mike, mike okay .
But as you focus on thatabandonment part, what is that
part saying?
Earlier you said there's justno safe place to go, I'm all
alone, I have to isolate.
Is there anything else that'scoming up for you as you focus
on that part?
A lot of shame.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Yeah, a lot of shame.
Feels really really dirty.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, it does still look pretty dirty.
Yeah, is there anything thatyou want to say about feeling
dirty, anything more that youwant to add to that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
yeah, yeah.
Um part of me just wants toadmit that I think that sex is
really, really gross.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Hey, yeah, that part holds some deep trauma.
Yeah, while we were doing this,regret and guilt showed up.
Can you tell me where that's atin your body?
Speaker 5 (22:56):
How do you experience regret and guilt?
My shoulders, the rest of myshoulders and also Rest of my
private parts.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Okay, okay.
How is that feeling in yourprivate parts?
Is there a feeling there forthat?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah, it's just like okay, that's gross too, that's
shameful.
Wasn't used for shameful Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Wasn't used for good.
Yeah, so, rick, when youexperience these parts of you,
are they all talking at once?
Do these thoughts and feelingstake turns, bombarding you?
How do you experience thesefour main emotions of anger,
(23:49):
disgust, abandonment, regret andguilt?
What's it like for you inside?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I try to pretend it's not there at times, but I think
one kind of talks to the other,the talks to the other and then
talks to the other.
There's sometimes there's aheaviness where it just gets a
little noisy from time to timeand that's where I go into that
Well, where I just sort ofaccepted as is.
(24:26):
So that's what it's, that'swhat it's supposed to be.
This is my lot in life.
I'm confident that I've risenabove so much of that.
But it lingers.
There's a, there's a layerthere that stays.
I just don't want to feel grossabout it.
(24:46):
Shameful really ticks me offdamn right, it ticks you off
Speaker 1 (24:56):
want to check in for everybody who's watching.
If this is a little bitconfusing.
We're about to go into the roleplaying where I'm going to be
discussed.
Marcus is going to be anger,mike's abandonment, james's
regret and guilt, and we're allgoing to be taking on these
roles as Rick goes through thisprocess.
(25:16):
So it's might be a little bitloud, might be a little bit
noisy or chaotic.
Doug is going to be directingus and noisy or chaotic Doug is
going to be directing us andattuning to Rick and making sure
Rick has what he needs to keepgoing, and we might pause at
some point if it gets to beoverwhelming.
But when you heard Marcus raisehis voice, that was the
(25:37):
beginning of our role playing.
So here we go.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Anchor you've showed up.
Anchor you've showed up.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I've been here this entire time, but you just keep
me stuck right here in yourthroat and you will not actually
speak up for yourself.
These people, they do notdeserve to have their hands in
your mouth, around your face.
None of that is supposed to behappening.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
My face.
Oh my gosh, that's me.
Oh oh my gosh, I can't believeI look like that.
Is that really how other peoplesee me?
Oh, this is so bad.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I brought this all on myself.
It's my burden to carry.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And having your dad just run your face over a piano.
How could you let that happen?
It?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
was my teeth.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I did it.
I made him upset.
Why did you just?
Speaker 7 (26:47):
want to.
How could you let that happenit?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
was my teeth.
I did it.
I made him upset.
Why did you?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
make him upset.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It wouldn't have happened.
Is this why my face looks thisway.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's my fault.
I feel so alone.
Look at myself.
It's my fault, I can't evenstand myself.
I wouldn't have screwed up.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You needed to stand up, and you chose to be silent.
Instead, he's going to hate meeven more.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
I did when you needed me most, of you just kept me in
the dark.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Rick, I want to check in with you.
Is this, yeah, how does thisfeel right now?
Is this what you feel andexperience going on inside of
you?
Speaker 5 (27:28):
yeah, a lot of mixed bag emotions and, uh, that's the
truth.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
That is the truth and that's the way it feels when it
comes up yeah, what's it likefor you to hear this
externalized on the outside ofyou, that this is what your
internal world experiences?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Yeah, it's crowding me, it's a little suffocating.
Yeah, I don't want to hear it.
Yeah, I don't want to hear it,but I know that it's next to a
real reality thing.
Yes, yes, it does, and I reallydon't like it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to.
I know this is uncomfortable,yeah, but I want you to stay
with me, okay.
Yeah, you told me earlier youtrust the process, right, I do,
I do.
Okay, I'm right here if youneed me.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
I just want to run.
Yeah, I have a feeling ofwanting to bolt yeah, your fight
or flight is kicking in yeah,yeah, and uh it's getting in,
and uh, I feel this man, I feelthis right here, and uh, it is
(29:01):
pretty tight okay, yeah, whenyou feel like you want to
isolate, is this kind of whathappens.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You just become overwhelmed with all these
voices.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Yeah, the voices of emotions, you know.
Yeah, yeah, my favorite thingto do is um when they go into
there, I just get on the blanketand cover my face and cover my
face with the pillow and justhide in that and just try to
(29:39):
make it go away.
I hate my face.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I hate my mouth, I hate my teeth.
I don't want anyone to see melike this.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
That's a real part of you.
That's a reality.
It's a real part of reality.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That's a reality.
It's a real part of you.
Yeah, just don't look at me.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Just don't look at me .
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Look at me, don't touch me.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
What are they doing.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
They want me to open my mouth.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
What is this here?
The dentist is getting touchingyou with these utensils where
you've been violated.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
As he was coming at you with those tools.
What did you want to say?
Speaker 5 (30:41):
I wanted to say well, I wanted to say well, I wanted
to say I think you're a monstertell him.
I want you to tell him rightnow you're a monster and you're
not going to hurt me.
You can't hurt me.
I am done being hurt.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Don't do it is that how you were saying it in your
head?
You can't hurt me.
I am done being hurt.
Don't do it.
Is that how you were saying it?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
in your head.
Is that what it sounded like inyour head?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And it was like a countdown oh From the door all
the way to the chair.
When it came back in, oh, andhere it is.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, get ready, get ready.
So you've got all this disgust.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And now somebody's in your mouth or you're feeling
disgust.
Let's just take a minute andlisten to anger.
Speaker 7 (31:46):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (31:46):
with him right now.
I am really pissed off that Ihad to.
I'm just pissed off that I hadto feel it and I had to endure
it.
I just didn't want to feel it,right?
Yeah, what are you feeling?
It's going on anger.
I just didn't want to feel it,right, I don't want to feel it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, what are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It's going on anger what are you telling Rick right
now?
I'm telling Rick that he needsto get a backbone and stand up
for himself.
All of these things could havebeen different if you just stood
up and let me do my job.
(32:29):
I am trying to protect you andyou wouldn't let me.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I don't think you were protecting me.
In fact, mofo, yeah, I'm notweak, because I was using my
body to protect myself.
There's like a force, a wall,you know you can't tell me.
You can't tell me, but it wasnot that I had to stand up and
(33:06):
be strong.
I'm pretty damn strong.
Yeah, I don't need to betreated like shit.
I defend for myself.
I'm fighting for myself.
You have no right to talk thatway to me.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, and then abandonment.
What's going on withabandonment?
Speaker 7 (33:36):
I feel all alone.
No one loves me.
They send me here to thedentist.
They don't stay in the room.
I'm by myself with these people.
No one cares.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Yeah, it reminds me of the story of my life.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
No one loves me.
Yeah, I'm not worthy of love.
A little time would remind me.
Yeah, I'm not worthy of love.
A little time would remind me.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, what do you want to say to Abandonment?
What do you need to say rightnow to him about what he
experienced?
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Abandonment is a pretty lonely place to be.
I wish he just would have heldmy hand.
Just hold my hand.
Just tell me that it's going tobe okay.
Yeah, all I need is.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, instead, he was so wrapped up in his loneliness
and isolation.
Tell me about, oh, wrapped upin loneliness and isolation.
Tell me about regret and guilt.
Regret and guilt.
What do you say?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Andrew Rick, through all this I didn't.
If I would have stood up tomyself for myself, this might
not have happened.
It's my fault.
If I hadn't made dad angry, hewouldn't have dragged my face
across the piano keys.
If I hadn't looked this way,that person wouldn't have used
me that way.
I brought that attention onmyself.
(35:15):
It's my fault.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I screwed up can you open your eyes for a minute,
rick?
Can you look at that keyboard?
Speaker 4 (35:24):
yeah, I brought that on me.
Open your eyes for a minute,rick.
Can you look at that keyboard?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, I brought that on me.
Well, it comes up for you.
As you see that, think aboutwhat your dad did to you.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
You know, I remember that what he said to me was you
want me to wipe that look rightoff your face.
So we played some music.
My face played some music onthose keyboards all the way
across, all the way across.
Yeah, and everybody watched anddid nothing.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
The whole family was right there.
Of course they watched.
I deserved it.
Yeah, they knew I was justgetting what was coming to me.
It was my fault.
I brought it on myself.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Rick what's it like?
Speaker 6 (36:25):
for you to hear all this.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
I brought it on myself, Rick what's it like for
you to hear all this?
What I felt Then he said when Iran into the bathroom I'm
bleeding all over.
He said there's nothing wrongwith you, nothing wrong with you
.
I got this.
The keyboard kind of sucksright now.
I remember bumping my face,running my face on those black
(36:52):
keys All the way across.
It was one of those big pianostoo.
Yeah, that were solidly made.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Okay, rick, I want you to close your eyes again.
I want you to take a deepbreath, in through your nose,
out through your mouth.
It seems like you're prettyactivated right now.
You've got these four parts ofyou that you've heard from.
You've identified where they'reat in your body and what's
(37:27):
going on for you.
I want you to switch gears fora minute, okay, as you just
concentrate on your breath.
I want you to find a place inyour body where you feel the
most secure and where you feelthe most safe.
(37:52):
Find that spot in your body.
You might need to think of anexperience or a time when you
did feel safe, when you did feelstrong, the time when you did
feel strong, the time when youdid feel positive.
Do you have that in your head?
(38:13):
Yeah, okay, have you locatedthat in your body?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
it'll surprise you, but my safe place, yeah, comes
from my voice and singing great,yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, where it
comes where and where it comesup and there's joy and there's
(38:43):
happiness expression.
I feel good it comes up andthere's joy and there's
happiness expression.
I feel good I'm at the top ofthe world, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I want you to just sit and lean into that sense of
your voice, love for yourself,your confidence, and as you sat
in that moment, I want to inviteand I want you to imagine that
(39:19):
Jesus is going to come and sitwith you, okay is going to come
and sit with you, okay.
Yeah, and I want you to listento what he has for you.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Rick.
Rick, I'm sorry that you weretreated that way.
That was way too rough for anychild of mine that should have
been delighted in to be handled.
I understand why you feel theway that you do and I want you
(40:21):
to know that you are in controlof what happens to you and your
body.
The fact that you love singingis a redemption of what happened
(40:42):
to you that day.
There's no clanging of yournose and cheek across keys and a
horrible sound, but amagnificent voice that I enjoy
listening to as you bring praiseto me and your Heavenly Father.
(41:07):
I just want you to know thatyou are an incredible man who's
overcome so much, and I couldnot be more delighted in you
just because of who you are, butwhen I see the growth that
(41:27):
you've had, it just isincredible, phenomenal.
Thank you for pursuing me.
I wish that I was there just tosit knee to knee, toe to toe,
(41:50):
with you and hold your beautifulface in my hands to let you
know how much I love you and Icare about you.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Rick, I want you to imagine that Jesus is giving you
a big ball right now and it's abig ball of compassion, and
it's a big ball of compassionand that he's putting it in your
hands and in your lap.
(42:25):
Just grab it.
Just reach out and grab itright now.
Hold that ball of compassionand when you're ready, I want
you to take a piece ofcompassion from that ball,
however much you want, and Iwant you to take it to anchor.
(42:50):
What do you want to say to youranger, your wounded, angry part
, through a voice of compassion?
Just give him whatever part ofthis you want, as little as you
want or as much as you want.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
What I'd like to do is just take that anger and
surround the entirety of theanger with the compassion yeah,
a big part of this Mm-hmm andkind of just make the anger kind
(43:33):
of like break up into a millionlittle pieces.
Yeah, blow away.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, just make him not squeeze it out yeah yeah,
just let that compassion takethat power away from him and
replace it yeah yeah kind oflike you want to go and just
pour compassion.
Yeah, just all that spots youmean pour it on, yeah, just pour
(44:01):
it through your head, yourthroat, your chest.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Just let compassion fill those areas where anger has
sat yeah, I kind of justimagine, kind of feel like you
know, just the inside of me it'slike a little funnel right and
the compassion is being poureddown, and just pour it down all
(44:27):
sides of the funnel, just let itflow down.
I mean, slowly it's going thereyeah, we're not killing anger.
We're healing.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Yeah, yeah, we're finding healing through.
He needs compassion.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
It's kind of dripping through.
Speaker 6 (44:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
A drip, but it's a good drip.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
It's a friendly drip.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
He needs a dripping IV of compassion.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
That's exactly right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Now I want you to look at that same ball of
compassion that you're holdingand can you take some disgust?
He's hurting.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Don't look at me.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
He sees you as ugly.
What can you?
How much compassion can youoffer him?
Speaker 5 (45:26):
A lot more than I have.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I don't want it.
I don't want your compassion.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
How much does he need ?
I'm going to give it to you.
You need a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I just want to think.
I want a new face.
I want a different mouth.
I don't want your compassion.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Guess what I'm taking it?
Yeah, I just want to take alittle watch box.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say.
Let's, let's take some of thatcompassion that you're holding
and let's just put it on yourface.
Let's just put it on your faceand your mouth and your nose and
your head and just let yourbeauty be there.
Bring compassion to this face.
(46:20):
You're his beloved son.
You are wonderfully made.
Just let your face soak that inyou.
Bring healing to that part.
(46:41):
How is he feeling with someadded compassion?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I feel different.
I kind of like that actually.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I kind of like that actually, yeah
, yeah yeah, where do you feelthat at?
Speaker 2 (47:07):
in my face yeah yeah, right here yeah, even though
going to the dentist was soscary for you, you've told me
how much you wanted your teethfixed.
Can you just take some of thatcompassion and put it on your
(47:28):
teeth?
Yeah, just let that compassionbe there.
That this was hard, this wasdifficult.
You had to control so many dark, hurting emotions, but you took
(47:48):
a redemptive risk in facingthis.
Can you take some compassion toabandonment?
Yeah, yeah, let's put some onthere.
(48:11):
And what would you like to tellhim through, through the lens
of compassion?
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Oh yeah, Even though I just received, you're not
alone.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Never alone.
Speaker 5 (48:30):
You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I will never leave you nor forsake you.
That's right.
I will never leave you norforsake you, that's right.
And you have a wonderful groupof men around you supporting you
.
Can you take?
Speaker 4 (48:57):
some of your compassion to regret and guilt.
It was my fault.
Dad did what he did because Imade him do it.
If I wouldn't have looked athim that way, he wouldn't have
done what he did.
If I didn't deserve it, someoneelse would have stood up for me
, but I't deserve it.
(49:18):
Someone else would have stoodup for me, but I did deserve it.
I earned that punishment.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It was my fault.
It's a lot of pain.
Rick, Let that confident partof you take him some compassion.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Yeah, I'm just letting that compassion go into
my stomach.
That's kind of where I'mholding it.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, or itlands yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And what's it doing to your stomach?
Speaker 5 (50:01):
Well, I am.
There's a little bit of a fightthere that I'm trying to hold
back from it because I just Ineed to release, need to release
that and just let it in there,just let it saturate.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, rick, as we come to a close, yeah, yeah, I
want you to take this ball ofcompassion and continue to hold
on to it and any time one ofthese emotions comes up for you
and is present for you andbegins to berate you and tell
you lies, and tell youfalsehoods about yourself, tell
(50:48):
you negative things about theway you look or that it was your
fault and even how much youdidn't want these things to
happen to you, you can offerthese parts compassion.
You can take a piece of thatcompassion and just clothe them
(51:14):
with it and soothe their voiceand their hurt and their pain,
and you can be the confidentperson that you are, knowing
that Jesus is sitting rightbeside you.
Now I want you to open youreyes and I want you to look at
(51:39):
each one of these parts and tellthem that you're going to offer
them compassion.
Speaker 5 (51:48):
Anger yeah, compassion, totally, it's coming
, it's here, here.
Abandonment yeah, compassion isgoing to be my new voice in
(52:19):
that Guilt and shame.
Yeah, that passion there, I'mjust going to let that go, just
going to let that go.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, you know some of these parts have been so
burdened with things they don'tneed to carry.
Yeah, and you can be good tothem and you can invite them in
into who you are today and offerthem compassion.
How are you feeling, Rick,about this process?
Speaker 5 (53:12):
It's been very helpful and kind of look at my
face a little differently andsee the new story that can
emerge out of this.
Right now I feel at peace.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah, just breathe that in, Just let that sound
into your body.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
And just hold that compassion for yourself.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Right, I need a little more compassion all right
, and I didn't want it earlier,but I need some more well, you
know what I can?
Speaker 5 (53:56):
I can stand up and say I don't have to be disgusted
, I don't have to feel disgusted, I don't have to live with that
.
Really, really, really.
I don't have to, I don't haveto feel disgusted.
Speaker 7 (54:18):
Why.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Because it wasn't my fault.
Actually, I'm beautiful, okay.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I receive that.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yeah, and you can give that to these parts anytime
they show up.
Speaker 5 (54:45):
Mm-hmm, I can take that ball of compassion and just
keep giving it back.
Yep Barred it in, breathed intoit and then joined it, right
yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Okay, so now I want us to go through the process of
de-rolling.
Okay so, let's start with anger.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Rick, I am not anger.
I am not your anger, Whetherunhealthy or washed over with
compassion.
I am your friend Marcus.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Rick, I am not your disgust, I am not a piano, a
piano.
I am your friend Drew, wholoves you and who received a lot
of compassion from you todayReceived a lot.
Speaker 7 (55:50):
And, rick, I am not abandonment, hiding under the
blanket, but I am your brother,mike and.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
I love you so much, Rick.
Speaker 4 (56:06):
Rick, I gotcha.
Rick, I'm not your regret andguilt, carrying the burdens of
your past.
I'm not regret and guilt, I'myour friend, brother James.
I love you man.
Speaker 5 (56:21):
Thank you, James.
Speaker 6 (56:25):
Rick, I am not Jesus, I am not Jesus, I am not Jesus.
I'm your friend, henry.
Speaker 5 (56:32):
Okay, okay, it was pretty close there figuring out
who Jesus is, thank God.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Hey, henry, love you okay, rick and Doug, thank you
so much thank you for theopportunity and thank you, rick,
for allowing me to walk thatwith you.
Speaker 7 (56:57):
Thank you, doug I love for allowing me to walk
that with you.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
Thank you, Doug, I love you.
I love you too.
It's a good day.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Mike, Marcus, James, thank you.
I'm going to read some of thecomments.
A number of men were cryingwith you, saying it was
difficult, but we understand andyou are loved.
It must have been so awful.
And a number of men commentedon your smile as well, saying
(57:29):
love, the smile of happiness,and that there is a countenance
on your face.
They saw confidence on yourface.
They saw a confidence in yourface.
Your face changed during theprocess, Saying it's different,
and it was gut-wrenching.
But especially when you saidit's not my fault and I'm
(57:55):
beautiful, there was a hugesmile.
Adam says I can see I have somany parts that need to get
acquainted to the love andcompassion of Christ.
They need to experience theredemption that they already
have in Christ.
He heals the brokenhearted.
That's what this session wasabout.
Guys, I hope you get a sense ofwhat that can look like through
witnessing this process.
You know thinking about thedifferent parts anger, disgust,
(58:15):
regret, guilt, abandonment andall of them received love and
compassion today.
This is just one example of howthis process can go.
There are many differentdirections it can go.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
It can be much more dramatic.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, some of you guys are saying thank you.
We're proud of you.
Amazing work.
That was super powerful andamazing, even virtually Now.
Usually we take a lot more timeto debrief and allow each
person to share what weindividually experienced.
(58:53):
I feel like maybe it would begood for us to do like one or
two sentences for each person,so I will go first and just say
that, rick, that resonated somuch with me in my face, in my
mouth, I kind of knew you weregoing to choose me for disgust.
(59:15):
I just knew it and it wasexactly how I have felt about
myself.
So thank you.
Speaker 5 (59:23):
I love you, drew.
Love you too, man, thank you.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yeah, similar to Drew , I was not surprised that you
chose me for anger and I couldabsolutely resonate with having
a lot of that internalized angerand I really felt that.
I really felt it, rick.
Speaker 5 (59:45):
Thank you, marcus, thank you.
Speaker 7 (59:49):
Likewise, I could really feel those feelings of
abandonment.
Little Mike felt that so oftenUnloved, unsupported, uncared
for, lonely hiding.
Yeah, I could resonate with alot of that, Thank you Mike.
Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
Similarly, I can definitely resonate with wanting
to take all that blame on andsay, well, it's my fault to take
all that blame on and say, well, it's my fault If I had done X,
y or Z, then you know, a, b andC wouldn't have happened and I
wouldn't have had to face all ofthose consequences.
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
So very honored to be a part of this process.
Thank you so much, James.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I'm always just so honored, james.
I'm always just so honored thatpeople allow me into this space
in their hearts.
And, rick, I've been deepinside your heart through our
processes and I just there'sdefinitely parts of your story
that I resonate with, with myown parts and my own abuse, and
(01:01:00):
I just really thank you howvulnerable you are and how real
you are and I love your face.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
And your voice.
Thank you, Doug.
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
And your voice yeah, yeah, thank you so much, doug.
And your voice yeah, yeah,thank you so much, doug, my
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
That's what we're here to do to be with each other
in these places, right whenmany men don't dare to go.
You could see how different itwas between the session two demo
, with just me and Jordan andeverything was happening inside
of him, versus in this one.
It was a lot bigger and it tookmore time to set it up and it
(01:01:48):
took more guts to go through it,but what a difference.
Pete says there is an appeal tothis, but it also seems scary.
Do I want to go there?
How much past pain do I want touncover?
And yet also, do I want to behealed?
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
Yeah, that's what I was going to comment is we did
this at our retreat in March andI think I spent the first days
crying in fear, avoiding doingit, and then you know, know, the
process was hugely emotionaland draining, but so healing and
so worth the emotional output.
(01:02:27):
It probably was not worth allthe all the dread and fear that
I had leading in, so it'sdefinitely worth it and there
there was one question in thechat that I think is worth
mentioning here.
Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Uh, drake asks is there a way to do this by
yourself?
I would not recommend doingthis by yourself, because it is
an incredibly emotional process.
It's very raw, and one of thebenefits of having a group with
you is they can support youthrough the raw emotions, the
(01:03:06):
feelings you're experiencing,and once you're done with that,
you then have people who cansupport you in coming down from
it and you, if you do it byyourself, you might end up
coming across some emotions thatyou're not ready to handle and
you might need some additionalsupport.
So I would definitely keepdoing this as a group.
Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Yeah, I think you're right, Marcus, because I trust
you all.
I felt doing it alone no,that's not healthy, but I felt
protected, I felt safe.
And I felt safe as far as that.
(01:03:52):
There were some real emotionsthat I felt today that just came
up, but I wasn't ashamed ofthose emotions and I felt that I
can get something out andrelease and go there and, uh,
the beauty of it is that that,in this process, that's where
(01:04:13):
the healing comes.
It comes through, uh, throughpeople of God and through the
circle.
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
And as we go through this process with people and we
get more traction and we getmore familiar with the healing
process, there are some thingsyou can do by yourself.
Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
There is.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
For example, listening to what my body is
telling me.
At first that might just seemlike what, but you do this a few
times and you're like, oh, myanger is trying to protect me.
Or this abandoned part goesback to when I was that age.
And really the most importantthing that we emphasize
throughout this whole thing isattunement and safety, checking
(01:04:58):
in with the guy to make surethat this is not re-traumatizing
, because it can be without goodfacilitation.
One more question from Brandonsaying how can we grow to see
Jesus as a safe place in ourtrauma and pain when certain
doctrines may have taught that?
(01:05:18):
he's the author of the eventsthat causes pain.
When you do this work, a bigpart of it is getting out of my
head and getting more into myheart and my body and
experiencing Jesus that way,rather than just trying to
(01:05:41):
logically understand who he is.
This is about experiencing whohe is through each other.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
You have to hone into the fruits of the Spirit that
he embodies.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
If you're having a healing experience and Jesus is
anything other than If you'rehaving a healing experience and
Jesus is anything other thanlove and peace, then we have a
community like this to help usdiscern is that really God or is
that someone else from yourfamily of origin, or is that
your shame talking?
Having a group of Christian menwho get it really helps, and
(01:06:21):
that's what HMA gives you.
Thank you so much forwitnessing that powerful process
.
If you are interested in beinga part of this type of deep
healing and transformation, goto joinhmacom to learn more.
The doors are open now and theywon't open again until July.
We would love to have you.
You can even work with DougMike, me and many of our other
coaches so that you can heal theboy within you, grow up
(01:06:46):
emotionally and sexually andachieve lasting freedom from
porn.
Always remember, my friend, youare God's beloved son In you.
He is well pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today's episode is an exampleof one of our Husband Material
(00:24):
Academy coaching calls Work itOut Wednesday.
At Work it Out Wednesday, weuse psychodrama and role-playing
to work out the issues that aredeep within us, that are often
at the core of our attachment topornography.
The healing process you're aboutto witness was facilitated by
Dr Doug Carpenter last summer atthe HMA.
(00:47):
In a Day workshop, doug workedwith one of our certified
coaches, rick Carlson, with somehelp from me, mike Chapman,
james Janikin and also MarcusSpahr.
What you're about to hear orsee if you're watching the video
, is an embodied healing processand, yes, we can even do
(01:08):
embodied healing online.
That's one of the beautifulthings about Husband Material
Academy.
If you are interested in doingthis type of work, even online,
go to husbandmaterialcom, slashacademy or joinhmacom.
The doors to HMA only opentwice a year, once in January
and once in July, and thosedoors are open now.
(01:30):
So if you find this process tobe powerful and you want to be a
part of it.
Go to joinhmacom and I hope youenjoy the episode.
So I'm going to invite ourcoaches to come up, and first we
have Dr Doug Carpenter.
Hey, doug.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I am happy to see you , man.
Thank you, Good to see you too.
Doug is a clinical psychologistand he is our clinical advisor
here at Husband Material.
He has taught psychodrama atthe graduate level and he is,
like our Yoda, the teacher ofthis incredible tool that we use
(02:12):
to process our past and ourparts and find greater healing.
So Doug is leading an HMA callevery other week and he also has
been co-leading some smallerhealing weekends with me.
So, Doug, thank you for leadingthis process.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You are very welcome, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Mike Chapman is here.
Hey Is the founder of PolarLife Consulting.
He also has a podcast for malesurvivors of childhood sexual
abuse.
And Marcus Spahr is here,former director of care and
support at Husband Material, andMarcus is also a life coach.
(02:57):
I think both of you guys arecertified as addiction recovery
coaches and he's an inner childspecialist as well.
Marcus owns Between the CoversCoaching and you have a podcast
too, now, yes, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
The Between the Covers podcast, where I'm
helping people learn to becomeheroes of their own stories.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Awesome.
And actually, marcus, mike andDoug and I also all just
completed brain spottingtraining, which we're now using
and that's something that I'malso incorporating into HMA
coaching calls.
So brain spotting is anothergreat way to work with all of
this stuff.
James, Awesome.
(03:40):
James Janikin, who is anothercertified coach, leading Pure
Desire groups as well right, yep, and literally driving a school
bus as well.
So you know what it's like.
And then the man in the hot seatis Rick Carlson.
Hey, rick.
Hi, rick is a pastor.
(04:02):
He is a recovery pastor andalso a certified house material
coach, and I'm really, reallygrateful for your vulnerability
and choosing to go through thisin front of a big group of
people.
I'm glad to be here.
As you can tell, we've got abigger group for this, because
(04:24):
in psychodrama, we need to roleplay and externalize these
different parts and thesedifferent people in our past in
order to move through whateverneeds to happen and get unstuck
(04:48):
Just to give you all a previewof what's going to happen.
So Rick is going to share whathe wants to work on today, doug
is going to direct and lead us,and then Marcus, james, mike and
I will be supporting Rick inthis process and playing
whatever roles we are needed toplay, let me pray for us as we
get started, and then, doug,I'll let you take it from there.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
God, thank you for the beauty of how many different
ways we can heal.
I ask you to make redemptiontangible, to come and give Rick
exactly what he needs, amen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Great.
Thank you, rick, forvolunteering today.
I appreciate it.
I know that this is going to bea very vulnerable process, as
it always is for anyone whodecides to share such intimate
parts of their life.
So, rick, if you could justmake sure that you're in a
comfortable seating position, ifyou could just take a deep
(05:50):
breath in through your nose andout through your mouth.
Just do that a couple of times.
Just try to make yourself asrelaxed and as comfortable as
you can.
You know everyone here.
This is a safe place for you.
This is a safe environment.
You've done this with meseveral times now.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
And I trust everybody here and I trust the process.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Good.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Thank you for that.
So I know that you havesomething specific that you want
to work on today, so why don'tyou tell me a little bit about
that?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And this is vulnerable.
But just going back and dealingwith the pain and it all
connects to porn about the abusethat happened around my face,
on my face and inside of my facemy face on my face and inside
of my face and I experienced asa young.
(06:53):
There's two pathways on this.
What I experienced is from aphysical abuse thing where my
dad that raised me.
I did something incorrectaround eight or nine.
I did something incorrectaround eight or nine and in
front of the whole family hedragged my face along the piano
keyboard which caused a lot ofinjuries and a lot of bleeding.
(07:13):
I won't go into all thosedetails, but that was something
that I developed then, that Ijust thought I was an ugly, ugly
person and I wasn't safe.
There obviously was some sexualabuse that I went through and
trauma and that as well as achild and the bigger part of
(07:37):
this that all plays is around 19, I was in a situation where I
was in a situation where I wassexually accosted and I was
forced to do things with mymouth.
That just was not a goodsituation and there was a little
(08:03):
abuse there in other areas aswell, but the the impact that
that had on me.
I felt so gross and so ugly andwhat happened was developed
that I was unsafe, developedthat I was unsafe, don't touch
(08:25):
my face, do not touch my faceanyone.
So I developed that mode ofresponse to that trauma and it's
pretty unique.
I've been carrying that for along time with inside myself and
I know that there's a directcorrelation into Arnie's, where
(08:49):
I viewed porn on both sides ofthe coin and I had to replace my
ugliness to fill that void ofwhere I thought I was the
ugliest and that my face wasgross but yet used as a freak of
nature thing.
I had to look at men inparticular and I needed the
(09:14):
perfect face to replace my faceand viewing that and then I
became that person, no matter uh, what that, uh, what side of
that the coin was, um, in theporn or news.
That is from the past and um, Istill um to this day.
(09:37):
Um deal with sometimes theugliness of my face and I don't
like people to touch my face,even um acts of affection and
I'm like on my face around myface is pretty.
I feel that what really broughtthis all up was, uh, in may I
went to a series.
I had a series of dentalappointments for some procedures
(09:59):
.
Uh, there were like five or sixof them during the month of may
.
They were doing some work.
There were like five or six ofthem during the month of May.
They were doing some work andthere was a lot of fear that I
had Even going to now back up,even going to the doctor.
When they say open your mouthand say oh, or they look around,
I freak.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You freak, what happens for you, what comes up?
Speaker 5 (10:20):
What comes up is fear .
My body goes into a stiffness.
I'm afraid, I'm very afraidthat I'm going to be injured and
also it seems like I don't wantpeople to see inside, because
what if they see what happened?
(10:41):
What if they see what happened?
What if they know what happened?
And this dentist experience Imanaged through the first couple
.
It was very hard and on thethird visit I literally went
into convulsions with my legsbecause I couldn't take what
they were doing.
It was a two-hour process and Ialmost hit the well.
(11:03):
I tried to hit the periodontisttwice because I was.
I felt everything.
I felt the violation, I saw thepiano keys, I saw the, the
abuse, and I saw and felt, feltwhat I was experiencing.
So all this, brought all thattrauma back to you.
(11:25):
I could feel it, I could facethat.
I feel it across my body.
I feel it across my body.
But the entry of violation wasmy mouth and I do recall, you
know, I remember calling out toJesus in my head and even
probably saying the words helpme.
So that's where I'm at withthis, and if that makes any
(11:48):
sense of what I've shared, so Ihave some questions for you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
What would you like or hope to get from this process
today?
What do you feel like you need?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
A release, just a release.
Even as of right now, mystomach is pretty tight, not
because I'm nervous with youguys, I just I feel I feel like
it's stuck.
Yeah, I just want a releasethat I can not feel so gross in
(12:24):
my memories and in my present.
With this and you know, I'mlearning to love all parts of
myself.
It's incredible, right.
It's a beautiful process andhealing journey for sure.
I don't want to look at myselfand look at my mouth and my face
and see that pain or see thatgrossness, and just look at his
(12:47):
place of beauty and that I'm notgoing to be harmed.
Okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So, rick, you've shared a lot here and you've
shared in a very verbal way.
Tell me what emotions arecoming up for you now, as you've
spent the last eight minuteskind of telling us your story,
the trauma involved, theflashbacks that you had starting
(13:15):
in May, around all thisdentistry work, and you've
already mentioned what you'refeeling in your body, which I'm
going to get to that in a minutebut what emotions do you feel
like are coming up for you?
Some anger, anger.
Okay, tell me about your anger.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
It's like a little bit of a boil anger, if you will
.
That I just wish it wouldn'thave happened and I wish I
wouldn't have had to go downthis journey and experience some
of these feelings about myself.
There's emotions of disgust.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Is that different than your anger?
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, okay, so disgust, as you can hear,
disgust.
What are you hearing from him?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Almost like he deserved this.
There's some emotions ofabandonment connected and I feel
in this I just didn't have theability to be able to articulate
, I didn't have a safe place togo and share anything, and maybe
(14:32):
a better way to describe it isextreme amount of loneliness,
with this that I've had to livewith, and with loneliness that
becomes like an isolation island, trying to, of course, read all
(14:53):
the things you know there arethe, and then you try to hide
the pain or some of thebehaviors that have happened in
my life in the past, that Itried to get rid of all that
pain and I'd like to look in themirror and just look at myself
(15:14):
as not disgusting, safe andbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So when you experience this anger, I want
you to just kind of scan yourbody right now and if you could
locate anger.
Where is he sitting on oraround you, in you?
Where is anger?
Where does he feel activated,where does he feel?
Speaker 5 (15:44):
activated in my throat, right here and in the
pit to my stomach, kind of likeit goes straight down along the
straight line down.
How would you describe thatfeeling?
It is a raw.
Raw feeling like a little bitof a, perhaps a control, a
(16:10):
tightness, sometimes, maybe like, like it amps up it amps up.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So I want you to take a minute, I want you to just
close your eyes and I want youto send all your focus to that
feeling right now.
Send all your focus to thatanger and what you're feeling in
your body, and I want you tojust sit here with it for a
(16:40):
minute, really try to get intouch with it for a minute,
really try to get in touch withit.
And of the men that are here, Iwant you to pick out somebody
that you feel couldappropriately represent your
anger for you, who could holdthat for you.
Marcus, marcus, marcus, are youwilling to be anchored?
(17:06):
Thank you, marcus.
Okay, rick, just go back intothat, lean into that feeling,
and you had said earlier thatthis anchor just holds the
feelings of why did this have tohappen?
It's just boiling.
(17:27):
I wish it wouldn't havehappened.
Is there anything else thispart is saying as you focus?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
in on it I don't think there's anything else
right now.
That's saying.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But he's got a lot of things he wished hadn't
happened.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
There's regret, there's a big feeling of regret.
Guilt there's guilt.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I think that's probably another feelings there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but anger isupset about what your dad did to
your face on the piano keys,about the sexual assault, the
sexual abuse, abuse, and maybeeven the dentist, the
(18:32):
orthodontist, when he wastouching your face.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Was there any anger there for him?
Yeah, there was a lot of angerin there because they were
everywhere inside my mouth.
I felt like I had to fight formy life.
I was paralyzed because I hadno control.
I had no control at all overthis and I couldn't defend
myself.
I could not defend myself and Ifelt really weak because I was
(18:59):
a vulnerable person there and itpissed me off that I was
feeling these things and that itwas out of my control and I
felt like the dentist didn'tcare.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't where you were at.
Yeah, while you're focusing inon yourself, I want you to find
that feeling of disgust in yourbody.
Where is that?
In your mouth, in your face?
(19:36):
In my ear?
All right here, okay, yeah, Ijust want you to send all your
attention and your focus to thatpart right now and tell me who
among your friends here couldyou let represent that feeling
(19:57):
of disgust for you.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
I choose Drew.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Okay, drew Drew are you willing to play disgust?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes, thank you and Rick, you talked earlier about.
There's a part of you thatfeels like you deserved this.
Yeah, is there anything morethat this part is saying right
now?
What's coming up for you as youfocus on that part?
Speaker 5 (20:34):
that I should have been more intelligent, not been
in those locations.
I should have been smarter.
Did I set myself up for this?
Set myself up for this?
I should have been smarter as akid.
I set myself up for this.
Set myself up for this.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
This part's really yeah, this part's really making
you responsible.
And then focus on thatabandonment part.
Where can you locate that?
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Right here, yeah by your heart.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Okay, who here could represent your abandonment part?
Mike.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Okay, mike, mike okay .
But as you focus on thatabandonment part, what is that
part saying?
Earlier you said there's justno safe place to go, I'm all
alone, I have to isolate.
Is there anything else that'scoming up for you as you focus
on that part?
A lot of shame.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Yeah, a lot of shame.
Feels really really dirty.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, it does still look pretty dirty.
Yeah, is there anything thatyou want to say about feeling
dirty, anything more that youwant to add to that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
yeah, yeah.
Um part of me just wants toadmit that I think that sex is
really, really gross.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Hey, yeah, that part holds some deep trauma.
Yeah, while we were doing this,regret and guilt showed up.
Can you tell me where that's atin your body?
Speaker 5 (22:56):
How do you experience regret and guilt?
My shoulders, the rest of myshoulders and also Rest of my
private parts.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Okay, okay.
How is that feeling in yourprivate parts?
Is there a feeling there forthat?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah, it's just like okay, that's gross too, that's
shameful.
Wasn't used for shameful Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Wasn't used for good.
Yeah, so, rick, when youexperience these parts of you,
are they all talking at once?
Do these thoughts and feelingstake turns, bombarding you?
How do you experience thesefour main emotions of anger,
(23:49):
disgust, abandonment, regret andguilt?
What's it like for you inside?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I try to pretend it's not there at times, but I think
one kind of talks to the other,the talks to the other and then
talks to the other.
There's sometimes there's aheaviness where it just gets a
little noisy from time to timeand that's where I go into that
Well, where I just sort ofaccepted as is.
(24:26):
So that's what it's, that'swhat it's supposed to be.
This is my lot in life.
I'm confident that I've risenabove so much of that.
But it lingers.
There's a, there's a layerthere that stays.
I just don't want to feel grossabout it.
(24:46):
Shameful really ticks me offdamn right, it ticks you off
Speaker 1 (24:56):
want to check in for everybody who's watching.
If this is a little bitconfusing.
We're about to go into the roleplaying where I'm going to be
discussed.
Marcus is going to be anger,mike's abandonment, james's
regret and guilt, and we're allgoing to be taking on these
roles as Rick goes through thisprocess.
(25:16):
So it's might be a little bitloud, might be a little bit
noisy or chaotic.
Doug is going to be directingus and noisy or chaotic Doug is
going to be directing us andattuning to Rick and making sure
Rick has what he needs to keepgoing, and we might pause at
some point if it gets to beoverwhelming.
But when you heard Marcus raisehis voice, that was the
(25:37):
beginning of our role playing.
So here we go.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Anchor you've showed up.
Anchor you've showed up.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I've been here this entire time, but you just keep
me stuck right here in yourthroat and you will not actually
speak up for yourself.
These people, they do notdeserve to have their hands in
your mouth, around your face.
None of that is supposed to behappening.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
My face.
Oh my gosh, that's me.
Oh oh my gosh, I can't believeI look like that.
Is that really how other peoplesee me?
Oh, this is so bad.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I brought this all on myself.
It's my burden to carry.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And having your dad just run your face over a piano.
How could you let that happen?
It?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
was my teeth.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I did it.
I made him upset.
Why did you just?
Speaker 7 (26:47):
want to.
How could you let that happenit?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
was my teeth.
I did it.
I made him upset.
Why did you?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
make him upset.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It wouldn't have happened.
Is this why my face looks thisway.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's my fault.
I feel so alone.
Look at myself.
It's my fault, I can't evenstand myself.
I wouldn't have screwed up.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You needed to stand up, and you chose to be silent.
Instead, he's going to hate meeven more.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
I did when you needed me most, of you just kept me in
the dark.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Rick, I want to check in with you.
Is this, yeah, how does thisfeel right now?
Is this what you feel andexperience going on inside of
you?
Speaker 5 (27:28):
yeah, a lot of mixed bag emotions and, uh, that's the
truth.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
That is the truth and that's the way it feels when it
comes up yeah, what's it likefor you to hear this
externalized on the outside ofyou, that this is what your
internal world experiences?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Yeah, it's crowding me, it's a little suffocating.
Yeah, I don't want to hear it.
Yeah, I don't want to hear it,but I know that it's next to a
real reality thing.
Yes, yes, it does, and I reallydon't like it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to.
I know this is uncomfortable,yeah, but I want you to stay
with me, okay.
Yeah, you told me earlier youtrust the process, right, I do,
I do.
Okay, I'm right here if youneed me.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
I just want to run.
Yeah, I have a feeling ofwanting to bolt yeah, your fight
or flight is kicking in yeah,yeah, and uh it's getting in,
and uh, I feel this man, I feelthis right here, and uh, it is
(29:01):
pretty tight okay, yeah, whenyou feel like you want to
isolate, is this kind of whathappens.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You just become overwhelmed with all these
voices.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Yeah, the voices of emotions, you know.
Yeah, yeah, my favorite thingto do is um when they go into
there, I just get on the blanketand cover my face and cover my
face with the pillow and justhide in that and just try to
(29:39):
make it go away.
I hate my face.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I hate my mouth, I hate my teeth.
I don't want anyone to see melike this.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
That's a real part of you.
That's a reality.
It's a real part of reality.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That's a reality.
It's a real part of you.
Yeah, just don't look at me.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Just don't look at me .
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Look at me, don't touch me.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
What are they doing.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
They want me to open my mouth.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
What is this here?
The dentist is getting touchingyou with these utensils where
you've been violated.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
As he was coming at you with those tools.
What did you want to say?
Speaker 5 (30:41):
I wanted to say well, I wanted to say well, I wanted
to say I think you're a monstertell him.
I want you to tell him rightnow you're a monster and you're
not going to hurt me.
You can't hurt me.
I am done being hurt.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Don't do it is that how you were saying it in your
head?
You can't hurt me.
I am done being hurt.
Don't do it.
Is that how you were saying it?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
in your head.
Is that what it sounded like inyour head?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And it was like a countdown oh From the door all
the way to the chair.
When it came back in, oh, andhere it is.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, get ready, get ready.
So you've got all this disgust.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And now somebody's in your mouth or you're feeling
disgust.
Let's just take a minute andlisten to anger.
Speaker 7 (31:46):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (31:46):
with him right now.
I am really pissed off that Ihad to.
I'm just pissed off that I hadto feel it and I had to endure
it.
I just didn't want to feel it,right?
Yeah, what are you feeling?
It's going on anger.
I just didn't want to feel it,right, I don't want to feel it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, what are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It's going on anger what are you telling Rick right
now?
I'm telling Rick that he needsto get a backbone and stand up
for himself.
All of these things could havebeen different if you just stood
up and let me do my job.
(32:29):
I am trying to protect you andyou wouldn't let me.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I don't think you were protecting me.
In fact, mofo, yeah, I'm notweak, because I was using my
body to protect myself.
There's like a force, a wall,you know you can't tell me.
You can't tell me, but it wasnot that I had to stand up and
(33:06):
be strong.
I'm pretty damn strong.
Yeah, I don't need to betreated like shit.
I defend for myself.
I'm fighting for myself.
You have no right to talk thatway to me.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, and then abandonment.
What's going on withabandonment?
Speaker 7 (33:36):
I feel all alone.
No one loves me.
They send me here to thedentist.
They don't stay in the room.
I'm by myself with these people.
No one cares.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Yeah, it reminds me of the story of my life.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
No one loves me.
Yeah, I'm not worthy of love.
A little time would remind me.
Yeah, I'm not worthy of love.
A little time would remind me.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, what do you want to say to Abandonment?
What do you need to say rightnow to him about what he
experienced?
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Abandonment is a pretty lonely place to be.
I wish he just would have heldmy hand.
Just hold my hand.
Just tell me that it's going tobe okay.
Yeah, all I need is.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, instead, he was so wrapped up in his loneliness
and isolation.
Tell me about, oh, wrapped upin loneliness and isolation.
Tell me about regret and guilt.
Regret and guilt.
What do you say?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Andrew Rick, through all this I didn't.
If I would have stood up tomyself for myself, this might
not have happened.
It's my fault.
If I hadn't made dad angry, hewouldn't have dragged my face
across the piano keys.
If I hadn't looked this way,that person wouldn't have used
me that way.
I brought that attention onmyself.
(35:15):
It's my fault.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I screwed up can you open your eyes for a minute,
rick?
Can you look at that keyboard?
Speaker 4 (35:24):
yeah, I brought that on me.
Open your eyes for a minute,rick.
Can you look at that keyboard?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, I brought that on me.
Well, it comes up for you.
As you see that, think aboutwhat your dad did to you.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
You know, I remember that what he said to me was you
want me to wipe that look rightoff your face.
So we played some music.
My face played some music onthose keyboards all the way
across, all the way across.
Yeah, and everybody watched anddid nothing.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
The whole family was right there.
Of course they watched.
I deserved it.
Yeah, they knew I was justgetting what was coming to me.
It was my fault.
I brought it on myself.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Rick what's it like?
Speaker 6 (36:25):
for you to hear all this.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
I brought it on myself, Rick what's it like for
you to hear all this?
What I felt Then he said when Iran into the bathroom I'm
bleeding all over.
He said there's nothing wrongwith you, nothing wrong with you
.
I got this.
The keyboard kind of sucksright now.
I remember bumping my face,running my face on those black
(36:52):
keys All the way across.
It was one of those big pianostoo.
Yeah, that were solidly made.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Okay, rick, I want you to close your eyes again.
I want you to take a deepbreath, in through your nose,
out through your mouth.
It seems like you're prettyactivated right now.
You've got these four parts ofyou that you've heard from.
You've identified where they'reat in your body and what's
(37:27):
going on for you.
I want you to switch gears fora minute, okay, as you just
concentrate on your breath.
I want you to find a place inyour body where you feel the
most secure and where you feelthe most safe.
(37:52):
Find that spot in your body.
You might need to think of anexperience or a time when you
did feel safe, when you did feelstrong, the time when you did
feel strong, the time when youdid feel positive.
Do you have that in your head?
(38:13):
Yeah, okay, have you locatedthat in your body?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
it'll surprise you, but my safe place, yeah, comes
from my voice and singing great,yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, where it
comes where and where it comesup and there's joy and there's
(38:43):
happiness expression.
I feel good it comes up andthere's joy and there's
happiness expression.
I feel good I'm at the top ofthe world, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I want you to just sit and lean into that sense of
your voice, love for yourself,your confidence, and as you sat
in that moment, I want to inviteand I want you to imagine that
(39:19):
Jesus is going to come and sitwith you, okay is going to come
and sit with you, okay.
Yeah, and I want you to listento what he has for you.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Rick.
Rick, I'm sorry that you weretreated that way.
That was way too rough for anychild of mine that should have
been delighted in to be handled.
I understand why you feel theway that you do and I want you
(40:21):
to know that you are in controlof what happens to you and your
body.
The fact that you love singingis a redemption of what happened
(40:42):
to you that day.
There's no clanging of yournose and cheek across keys and a
horrible sound, but amagnificent voice that I enjoy
listening to as you bring praiseto me and your Heavenly Father.
(41:07):
I just want you to know thatyou are an incredible man who's
overcome so much, and I couldnot be more delighted in you
just because of who you are, butwhen I see the growth that
(41:27):
you've had, it just isincredible, phenomenal.
Thank you for pursuing me.
I wish that I was there just tosit knee to knee, toe to toe,
(41:50):
with you and hold your beautifulface in my hands to let you
know how much I love you and Icare about you.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Rick, I want you to imagine that Jesus is giving you
a big ball right now and it's abig ball of compassion, and
it's a big ball of compassionand that he's putting it in your
hands and in your lap.
(42:25):
Just grab it.
Just reach out and grab itright now.
Hold that ball of compassionand when you're ready, I want
you to take a piece ofcompassion from that ball,
however much you want, and Iwant you to take it to anchor.
(42:50):
What do you want to say to youranger, your wounded, angry part
, through a voice of compassion?
Just give him whatever part ofthis you want, as little as you
want or as much as you want.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
What I'd like to do is just take that anger and
surround the entirety of theanger with the compassion yeah,
a big part of this Mm-hmm andkind of just make the anger kind
(43:33):
of like break up into a millionlittle pieces.
Yeah, blow away.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, just make him not squeeze it out yeah yeah,
just let that compassion takethat power away from him and
replace it yeah yeah kind oflike you want to go and just
pour compassion.
Yeah, just all that spots youmean pour it on, yeah, just pour
(44:01):
it through your head, yourthroat, your chest.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Just let compassion fill those areas where anger has
sat yeah, I kind of justimagine, kind of feel like you
know, just the inside of me it'slike a little funnel right and
the compassion is being poureddown, and just pour it down all
(44:27):
sides of the funnel, just let itflow down.
I mean, slowly it's going thereyeah, we're not killing anger.
We're healing.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Yeah, yeah, we're finding healing through.
He needs compassion.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
It's kind of dripping through.
Speaker 6 (44:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
A drip, but it's a good drip.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
It's a friendly drip.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
He needs a dripping IV of compassion.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
That's exactly right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Now I want you to look at that same ball of
compassion that you're holdingand can you take some disgust?
He's hurting.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Don't look at me.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
He sees you as ugly.
What can you?
How much compassion can youoffer him?
Speaker 5 (45:26):
A lot more than I have.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I don't want it.
I don't want your compassion.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
How much does he need ?
I'm going to give it to you.
You need a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I just want to think.
I want a new face.
I want a different mouth.
I don't want your compassion.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Guess what I'm taking it?
Yeah, I just want to take alittle watch box.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say.
Let's, let's take some of thatcompassion that you're holding
and let's just put it on yourface.
Let's just put it on your faceand your mouth and your nose and
your head and just let yourbeauty be there.
Bring compassion to this face.
(46:20):
You're his beloved son.
You are wonderfully made.
Just let your face soak that inyou.
Bring healing to that part.
(46:41):
How is he feeling with someadded compassion?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I feel different.
I kind of like that actually.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I kind of like that actually, yeah
, yeah yeah, where do you feelthat at?
Speaker 2 (47:07):
in my face yeah yeah, right here yeah, even though
going to the dentist was soscary for you, you've told me
how much you wanted your teethfixed.
Can you just take some of thatcompassion and put it on your
(47:28):
teeth?
Yeah, just let that compassionbe there.
That this was hard, this wasdifficult.
You had to control so many dark, hurting emotions, but you took
(47:48):
a redemptive risk in facingthis.
Can you take some compassion toabandonment?
Yeah, yeah, let's put some onthere.
(48:11):
And what would you like to tellhim through, through the lens
of compassion?
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Oh yeah, Even though I just received, you're not
alone.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Never alone.
Speaker 5 (48:30):
You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I will never leave you nor forsake you.
That's right.
I will never leave you norforsake you, that's right.
And you have a wonderful groupof men around you supporting you
.
Can you take?
Speaker 4 (48:57):
some of your compassion to regret and guilt.
It was my fault.
Dad did what he did because Imade him do it.
If I wouldn't have looked athim that way, he wouldn't have
done what he did.
If I didn't deserve it, someoneelse would have stood up for me
, but I't deserve it.
(49:18):
Someone else would have stoodup for me, but I did deserve it.
I earned that punishment.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It was my fault.
It's a lot of pain.
Rick, Let that confident partof you take him some compassion.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Yeah, I'm just letting that compassion go into
my stomach.
That's kind of where I'mholding it.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, or itlands yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And what's it doing to your stomach?
Speaker 5 (50:01):
Well, I am.
There's a little bit of a fightthere that I'm trying to hold
back from it because I just Ineed to release, need to release
that and just let it in there,just let it saturate.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, rick, as we come to a close, yeah, yeah, I
want you to take this ball ofcompassion and continue to hold
on to it and any time one ofthese emotions comes up for you
and is present for you andbegins to berate you and tell
you lies, and tell youfalsehoods about yourself, tell
(50:48):
you negative things about theway you look or that it was your
fault and even how much youdidn't want these things to
happen to you, you can offerthese parts compassion.
You can take a piece of thatcompassion and just clothe them
(51:14):
with it and soothe their voiceand their hurt and their pain,
and you can be the confidentperson that you are, knowing
that Jesus is sitting rightbeside you.
Now I want you to open youreyes and I want you to look at
(51:39):
each one of these parts and tellthem that you're going to offer
them compassion.
Speaker 5 (51:48):
Anger yeah, compassion, totally, it's coming
, it's here, here.
Abandonment yeah, compassion isgoing to be my new voice in
(52:19):
that Guilt and shame.
Yeah, that passion there, I'mjust going to let that go, just
going to let that go.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, you know some of these parts have been so
burdened with things they don'tneed to carry.
Yeah, and you can be good tothem and you can invite them in
into who you are today and offerthem compassion.
How are you feeling, Rick,about this process?
Speaker 5 (53:12):
It's been very helpful and kind of look at my
face a little differently andsee the new story that can
emerge out of this.
Right now I feel at peace.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah, just breathe that in, Just let that sound
into your body.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
And just hold that compassion for yourself.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Right, I need a little more compassion all right
, and I didn't want it earlier,but I need some more well, you
know what I can?
Speaker 5 (53:56):
I can stand up and say I don't have to be disgusted
, I don't have to feel disgusted, I don't have to live with that
.
Really, really, really.
I don't have to, I don't haveto feel disgusted.
Speaker 7 (54:18):
Why.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Because it wasn't my fault.
Actually, I'm beautiful, okay.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I receive that.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yeah, and you can give that to these parts anytime
they show up.
Speaker 5 (54:45):
Mm-hmm, I can take that ball of compassion and just
keep giving it back.
Yep Barred it in, breathed intoit and then joined it, right
yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Okay, so now I want us to go through the process of
de-rolling.
Okay so, let's start with anger.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Rick, I am not anger.
I am not your anger, Whetherunhealthy or washed over with
compassion.
I am your friend Marcus.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Rick, I am not your disgust, I am not a piano, a
piano.
I am your friend Drew, wholoves you and who received a lot
of compassion from you todayReceived a lot.
Speaker 7 (55:50):
And, rick, I am not abandonment, hiding under the
blanket, but I am your brother,mike and.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
I love you so much, Rick.
Speaker 4 (56:06):
Rick, I gotcha.
Rick, I'm not your regret andguilt, carrying the burdens of
your past.
I'm not regret and guilt, I'myour friend, brother James.
I love you man.
Speaker 5 (56:21):
Thank you, James.
Speaker 6 (56:25):
Rick, I am not Jesus, I am not Jesus, I am not Jesus.
I'm your friend, henry.
Speaker 5 (56:32):
Okay, okay, it was pretty close there figuring out
who Jesus is, thank God.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Hey, henry, love you okay, rick and Doug, thank you
so much thank you for theopportunity and thank you, rick,
for allowing me to walk thatwith you.
Speaker 7 (56:57):
Thank you, doug I love for allowing me to walk
that with you.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
Thank you, Doug, I love you.
I love you too.
It's a good day.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Mike, Marcus, James, thank you.
I'm going to read some of thecomments.
A number of men were cryingwith you, saying it was
difficult, but we understand andyou are loved.
It must have been so awful.
And a number of men commentedon your smile as well, saying
(57:29):
love, the smile of happiness,and that there is a countenance
on your face.
They saw confidence on yourface.
They saw a confidence in yourface.
Your face changed during theprocess, Saying it's different,
and it was gut-wrenching.
But especially when you saidit's not my fault and I'm
(57:55):
beautiful, there was a hugesmile.
Adam says I can see I have somany parts that need to get
acquainted to the love andcompassion of Christ.
They need to experience theredemption that they already
have in Christ.
He heals the brokenhearted.
That's what this session wasabout.
Guys, I hope you get a sense ofwhat that can look like through
witnessing this process.
You know thinking about thedifferent parts anger, disgust,
(58:15):
regret, guilt, abandonment andall of them received love and
compassion today.
This is just one example of howthis process can go.
There are many differentdirections it can go.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
It can be much more dramatic.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, some of you guys are saying thank you.
We're proud of you.
Amazing work.
That was super powerful andamazing, even virtually Now.
Usually we take a lot more timeto debrief and allow each
person to share what weindividually experienced.
(58:53):
I feel like maybe it would begood for us to do like one or
two sentences for each person,so I will go first and just say
that, rick, that resonated somuch with me in my face, in my
mouth, I kind of knew you weregoing to choose me for disgust.
(59:15):
I just knew it and it wasexactly how I have felt about
myself.
So thank you.
Speaker 5 (59:23):
I love you, drew.
Love you too, man, thank you.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yeah, similar to Drew , I was not surprised that you
chose me for anger and I couldabsolutely resonate with having
a lot of that internalized angerand I really felt that.
I really felt it, rick.
Speaker 5 (59:45):
Thank you, marcus, thank you.
Speaker 7 (59:49):
Likewise, I could really feel those feelings of
abandonment.
Little Mike felt that so oftenUnloved, unsupported, uncared
for, lonely hiding.
Yeah, I could resonate with alot of that, Thank you Mike.
Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
Similarly, I can definitely resonate with wanting
to take all that blame on andsay, well, it's my fault to take
all that blame on and say, well, it's my fault If I had done X,
y or Z, then you know, a, b andC wouldn't have happened and I
wouldn't have had to face all ofthose consequences.
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
So very honored to be a part of this process.
Thank you so much, James.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I'm always just so honored, james.
I'm always just so honored thatpeople allow me into this space
in their hearts.
And, rick, I've been deepinside your heart through our
processes and I just there'sdefinitely parts of your story
that I resonate with, with myown parts and my own abuse, and
(01:01:00):
I just really thank you howvulnerable you are and how real
you are and I love your face.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
And your voice.
Thank you, Doug.
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
And your voice yeah, yeah, thank you so much, doug.
And your voice yeah, yeah,thank you so much, doug, my
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
That's what we're here to do to be with each other
in these places, right whenmany men don't dare to go.
You could see how different itwas between the session two demo
, with just me and Jordan andeverything was happening inside
of him, versus in this one.
It was a lot bigger and it tookmore time to set it up and it
(01:01:48):
took more guts to go through it,but what a difference.
Pete says there is an appeal tothis, but it also seems scary.
Do I want to go there?
How much past pain do I want touncover?
And yet also, do I want to behealed?
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
Yeah, that's what I was going to comment is we did
this at our retreat in March andI think I spent the first days
crying in fear, avoiding doingit, and then you know, know, the
process was hugely emotionaland draining, but so healing and
so worth the emotional output.
(01:02:27):
It probably was not worth allthe all the dread and fear that
I had leading in, so it'sdefinitely worth it and there
there was one question in thechat that I think is worth
mentioning here.
Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Uh, drake asks is there a way to do this by
yourself?
I would not recommend doingthis by yourself, because it is
an incredibly emotional process.
It's very raw, and one of thebenefits of having a group with
you is they can support youthrough the raw emotions, the
(01:03:06):
feelings you're experiencing,and once you're done with that,
you then have people who cansupport you in coming down from
it and you, if you do it byyourself, you might end up
coming across some emotions thatyou're not ready to handle and
you might need some additionalsupport.
So I would definitely keepdoing this as a group.
Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Yeah, I think you're right, Marcus, because I trust
you all.
I felt doing it alone no,that's not healthy, but I felt
protected, I felt safe.
And I felt safe as far as that.
(01:03:52):
There were some real emotionsthat I felt today that just came
up, but I wasn't ashamed ofthose emotions and I felt that I
can get something out andrelease and go there and, uh,
the beauty of it is that that,in this process, that's where
(01:04:13):
the healing comes.
It comes through, uh, throughpeople of God and through the
circle.
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
And as we go through this process with people and we
get more traction and we getmore familiar with the healing
process, there are some thingsyou can do by yourself.
Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
There is.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
For example, listening to what my body is
telling me.
At first that might just seemlike what, but you do this a few
times and you're like, oh, myanger is trying to protect me.
Or this abandoned part goesback to when I was that age.
And really the most importantthing that we emphasize
throughout this whole thing isattunement and safety, checking
(01:04:58):
in with the guy to make surethat this is not re-traumatizing
, because it can be without goodfacilitation.
One more question from Brandonsaying how can we grow to see
Jesus as a safe place in ourtrauma and pain when certain
doctrines may have taught that?
(01:05:18):
he's the author of the eventsthat causes pain.
When you do this work, a bigpart of it is getting out of my
head and getting more into myheart and my body and
experiencing Jesus that way,rather than just trying to
(01:05:41):
logically understand who he is.
This is about experiencing whohe is through each other.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
You have to hone into the fruits of the Spirit that
he embodies.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
If you're having a healing experience and Jesus is
anything other than If you'rehaving a healing experience and
Jesus is anything other thanlove and peace, then we have a
community like this to help usdiscern is that really God or is
that someone else from yourfamily of origin, or is that
your shame talking?
Having a group of Christian menwho get it really helps, and
(01:06:21):
that's what HMA gives you.
Thank you so much forwitnessing that powerful process
.
If you are interested in beinga part of this type of deep
healing and transformation, goto joinhmacom to learn more.
The doors are open now and theywon't open again until July.
We would love to have you.
You can even work with DougMike, me and many of our other
coaches so that you can heal theboy within you, grow up
(01:06:46):
emotionally and sexually andachieve lasting freedom from
porn.
Always remember, my friend, youare God's beloved son In you.
He is well pleased.
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