April 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Hear Ken Freire's story of healing from childhood sexual abuse, achieving lasting freedom from porn, and finding joy and purpose in Christ.
Ken Freire owns Scriptures.blog and hosts the Shame(less) Podcast. Ken has been helping Christian men break free from addiction and reclaim their purpose for the last 15 years. Through his own journey of overcoming abuse, shame, and embracing God’s grace, he aims to equip others with biblical wisdom and practical tools for lasting transformation. He's been married for 13 years and has 4 beautiful children. Ken has a Master’s in Divinity from Regent University, is a Full Focus Certified Pro, and a Prepare & Enrich Facilitator.
Connect with Ken:
- Podcast: beshameless.org
- Website: scriptures.blog
- Instagram: instagram.com/kenfreire
- Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/kenfreire/
Take the Husband Material Journey...
- Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube
- Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community
- Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn
- Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Hey man, thank you forlistening to my interview with
(00:21):
Ken Freire.
He has an amazing story ofgoing from shame, sexual abuse
and so much anger to identity inChrist and joy.
And you're not only going tohear Ken's story.
You will hear some wonderfulwisdom from the Word of God.
That's such a great foundationto outgrow porn and find lasting
(00:45):
freedom.
Enjoy the episode.
Today I'm hanging out with KenFreire.
I'm so excited to have him onthe show.
I got to be on his podcast,which is called Shameless.
It's a great resource.
You should go check it out.
Welcome, ken.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hey Drew, thank you so much for having me on the
podcast, and kudos to you, man,for nailing my last name.
That's a feat within itself, sowe're off to a good start.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Awesome, Ken.
Why are you so passionate aboutfreedom from porn and shame?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, you know I was addicted to porn since the age
of five and I know we'll diginto that quite a bit today.
But the biggest thing was thatI see so many men who are
addicted to pornography or whohave been stuck in the cycle of
shame that at the end of the day, they don't end up seeing their
(01:35):
greatest potential or theirGod-given purpose.
And I believe that God hascalled us that if we can break
free from shame and break freefrom this addiction, we'll see
greater men in society, we'llsee greater husbands, we'll see
great fathers, and that's whatwe need today in this world
where it feels crooked anddepraved and so dark and
(01:56):
everything that you hear is allabout toxic masculinity and just
how people don't know how to bethemselves fully, what God has
called them to be.
People don't know how to bethemselves fully what God has
called them to be.
So I'm just super excited toshare how God has shaped me, how
God has formed me to really bea vessel for his glory.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I love that, Ken, as you look back on your story,
even to the age of five.
How did this all start for you?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, unfortunately for me, you know, it started
because I was sexually abusedwhen I was younger.
For me, you know, it startedbecause I was sexually abused
when I was younger, so from likethe age of three to five, and
the person who introduced me topornography was the same person
who had abused me.
So it skewed my worldview onsexual ethics and what sexuality
(02:39):
should look like for a man, andfor years I was well.
The first few years I wasactually just repressing all of
those emotions, all thosefeelings.
I was like I don't even want tothink about this stuff.
I don't know if this actuallyhappened.
It might've just been somefigment of my imagination, but
the reality is that I started tocome to grips with it and I
(03:01):
became really angry individual.
And it wasn't like it washappening every day or anything
like that, but there weremultiple occasions throughout
those years that I just remembervividly what had happened to me
and how I was touched and how Iwas forced to do things to
other individuals, and that justshaped my view of really what I
(03:23):
thought manhood should looklike.
I had a very broken identityfor years and in fact, if I'm
honest with myself, it's stillsomething that God is walking me
through and helping me everyday to learn more and more of
how should I walk in my identityin Christ.
But for years, man, I justsuffered.
You know I think the best wayto put it is I used to tell
people from more of Hispanicculture is kind of more
(03:46):
patriarchal culture, right?
I was like I had this massiveissue where I was like manhood
was all about being tough, beingstrong, being firm, being able
to be like the captain.
You're like the head honcho.
Maybe, like machismo, machismo,yeah, yeah, right, and I was
just like, but for me I feltlike the complete opposite.
I felt like worthless.
(04:08):
I felt completely scared.
I felt completely hurtful.
When I looked in the mirror, Iwas just a little boy who was
abused and everyone would takeadvantage of me, and I was
bullied.
When I was younger, I felt likeI just had all these stigmas of
what manhood should look like,and then they were gone.
You know, because of my scarredview and what had happened to
(04:30):
me.
Really, you know all thesuffering that I had incurred.
All of a sudden, I was justlike man.
I can never achieve that typeof manhood, even if I wanted to.
I'm starting at negative 10 inthe race where some people might
start at five or two.
You know, I was like I'mdisqualified.
So for a long time I just feltdisqualified and I think a lot
of men today feel disqualifiedand it might not be because of
(04:53):
abuse, but it might just bebecause of their porn addiction,
right, and that men.
Those two things just spiraledme into this guilt and shame of
like me trying to earn myidentity, when it's not
something I earn, it's somethingthat's given to me by the grace
of God through forgiveness andredemption.
But like I didn't know thatback then, so I just tried to do
(05:14):
as much as possible to try togain favor from God and from
others, when I knew deep down Iwas struggling with something
much, much more insidious andtorturous from the suffering
that I had heard.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Your story is a great example of what we say at
Husband Material.
It's not men who get hooked onporn, it's boys.
So we need to heal the boy, tofree the man.
When did things start to changefor you?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Things actually got worse before they got better,
and I tell that to people allthe time in their healing
journey that sometimes it getsworse before it gets better.
I, around the age of 12 and 14,I started to really recognize
the pain that happened to me andI was angry at God.
First and foremost, I was likeGod, why would you let this
happen to a little boy?
(06:04):
And if you're in a theologicalspheres, that's called theodicy,
right, the problem of pain, theproblem of suffering, and that
was my biggest pain point ofactually rejecting God, because
I just didn't understand whatwas going on.
So for me, the biggest thingthat I had to work through was
just this reality of like God.
I'm so mad that this happenedand you allowed it, so I'm just
(06:26):
going to reject everything thatyou're about.
And I just ran full force intodebauchery and sin so fast
forward to the age of 16.
I mean, I was already sexuallyactive, I was still addicted to
pornography, I was manipulatingwomen, I was doing just about
anything I really wanted to, andwhat I thought God would hate I
did.
At the age of 16, I slept withsomeone and it went really
(06:50):
horrible.
I contracted an STD and I justlike life was horrible and I was
still angry at God.
And here's the funny thing whenyou are suffering from
something that happened to youlike me, I had a wound, someone
hurt me Because I wasn't me.
I had a wound, someone hurt meBecause I wasn't healed, I in
(07:13):
turn hurt other people.
So I just remember being in areally rock bottom place, that
at the age of 16, I decided toend my life and I was getting
ready to commit suicide and thisis a long story so I'm just
trying to condense it into aconcise point.
But that night, when I wasgoing to end my life, god
radically came into my room andmet me there.
I just felt the complete despairand frustration and
(07:38):
hopelessness that this worldsucks and there's so much pain,
so much sin, so much sufferingand I just couldn't escape it.
And I would have all thesespiritual, demonic nightmares.
For those who have been abused,this is very common where they
have these nightmares, ongoing,nightmares of like feeling like,
(08:00):
oh my gosh, they're repeatingthese same stories, or like
almost demons attacking them.
Like I had all of that stuffgoing on in my life since the
age of five to 16.
And I just remember just cryingout to God saying God, why me
Like, why this, this is horrible?
Like I don't have any joy.
There was no hope in my heart.
(08:20):
All I felt was just agony.
Hope in my heart, all I feltwas just agony, and the only
escape that I thought was justend my life, just be done with
it, because that seems waybetter, right, having no
feelings seems way better thanhaving all these negative
feelings that I was strugglingwith.
And that's when God man, hejust broke in.
(08:41):
You know, I tell people all thetime sometimes they might not be
in like the charismatic world,and I don't sometimes even know
how to explain it, but it wasthe first time, and very few
times I ever feel like I heardthe audible voice of God in my
room and he said to me thispassage in scripture, which I
didn't know back then, I wasn'tmemorizing scripture.
Clearly from my story, right, Iwasn't memorizing scripture,
(09:04):
but this is what I heard in,like I felt like he was talking
to me, like you're talking to meright now.
He said, ken, do not bediscouraged, do not be dismayed,
but be strong and courageous,for the lord, your god, is with
you wherever you go.
And for those of you who knowthat passage is joshua 1 9.
And I remember for the firsttime just crying like you know
(09:24):
that like snot nose, kind ofcrying, like all of it gunk,
everything like for hours,torture, that I was feeling.
(09:48):
The one thing that I was trulycrying out for is for someone to
see me and someone to know meand someone to hear me.
And it was the first time Ifelt like God was hearing me and
anybody heard me and just like,oh my gosh, he's like, do not
be discouraged, do not bedismayed, but be strong and
courageous, for the Lord, yourGod, is with you.
And I remember, like, thinkinglike, lord, you're with me, like
, are you sure?
Like, and I wrestled through it, man, I mean, I was really
(10:09):
wrestling, like, really, wereyou Like, were you there when I
was being abused?
Were you there when I feltlonely?
Were you there when I was angry?
Were you there, like hours ofme just crying out to God?
But I couldn't explain thetheological aspect back then.
Now I have better language forit.
But what I do know is that itwas a stepping stone, the shift
for me to say God, thank you,I'm going to be with you.
(10:32):
This is going to be a reallyhard journey.
I'm going to be with you.
This is going to be a reallyhard journey.
I'm going to have a lot ofquestions for you, but I want to
know you more, and if you'rethe only one who can heal me,
then so be it.
But let's take this baby steps,because I don't know how else
to do it.
I don't fully trust you yet,god, but I'm going to start,
since I had this massivebreakthrough in my room that
(10:53):
night, so that was a turningpoint.
I had to hit rock bottom beforeI could actually turn.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You were 16 years old after that turning point.
What happened next?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It actually took a few years, from 16 to probably
19, where I was reallystruggling.
And this is probably where mostpeople who are in husband
material might feel right, likethey know they should be doing
the right thing, but they'restruggling to go in two steps
forward, one step backwards.
And that's exactly where I wasall the time, and a part of it
was I was doing it alone.
(11:26):
I wasn't getting any peopleinvolved in my story.
I didn't share my story withanyone.
You know, at this point Ihaven't told anyone my story.
It was just between me and God.
And for those of you who arelistening to this, you may be in
that same situation whereyou're like, hey, I'm in this
community, but I haven't reallyshared my story with anyone yet,
I'm just going to keep it tomyself and God.
(11:46):
That is probably one of thehardest positions for you to put
yourself in, because you'reseeing other people get hope and
you think that if you're justaround them you might get
freedom.
But that's not how it works.
Shame is undone when you revealits secrets.
Amen, right, and this is why,for those of you who are in
(12:12):
Drew's community, I implore youshare, find the people that you
trust If you need to go to Drewor one of Drew's coaches, man,
do it.
It will literally be one of thebiggest things that you could
do for your freedom.
And Drew, that's what happenedto me, man, I remember for those
few years I battled and then,when I was 19, I moved, actually
from New York City that's whereI was born and raised.
I moved to Texas and I found acounselor there.
(12:34):
He was a good counselor and heradically just walked me through
baby steps.
And I'm telling you I neededthe baby steps because part of
the story that I skipped is thatwhen, at the age of 16, the
thing that made me want to endmy life was that I thought to
myself I know, I'm in a badplace, I need help, so the only
(12:55):
way to get help is if I tellsomeone.
So I went to a counselor to tryto share my story.
And this counselor, all theysaid to me was, after I shared
all my sin, all my problems,everything they're like.
Well, ken, I'm hearing you andI think, honestly, the reason
why you guys did all this wasjust because they were bored and
(13:16):
you were bored.
So you were just testing thingsout and I'm like gosh, testing
things out.
I was like that was that,that's not what people, kids, do
I mean, I have four kids likethat's not what you do, right,
and I was just dude.
I like I took everything in mypower not to punch this
counselor in the face because Ijust felt completely unheard,
(13:38):
completely ignored, completelylike oh, here's a pat answer
Just go walk away, you're fine.
But this is all 16 years offrustration and I'm sure, drew,
you've heard this from a lot ofpeople in your community.
So then this counselor fastforward to this great counselor
that I met, man.
He just walked with me Babysteps, a couple of big steps
(13:58):
that he walked me through at theage of 19.
Number one was forgiveness.
I had to walk through a lot ofjust what true forgiveness looks
like, not just the superficialforgiveness.
The second thing was learningmy identity.
That was such a big thing forme, drew, because honestly, like
what we talked about earlier, Ijust didn't know who I was,
(14:19):
what my identity looked like.
So he walked me throughidentity.
And then the third one was hejust walked me through purpose,
like genuine, like what is myGod-given purpose.
What I have found most men wherethey get stuck in their healing
journey is that they so muchfocus on the past that they
don't actually look at thefuture.
And it's both right, like Godsaves us from something to
(14:44):
something.
You need to do both right.
You need to be healed right,heal the boy right, like you
need that.
And then, when you become a man, you need to actually start
walking into your God-givenpurpose.
So, well said, don't just staythere.
And that's where most peopleman.
You need to actually startwalking into your God-given
purpose.
So, well said, don't just staythere.
And that's where most peopleget stuck is they stay there and
then they're like, oh, why didI relapse?
It's because you're acting likea boy when you're supposed to
(15:05):
be a man.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, it's true, and we often don't realize the ways
that that's happening.
Ken, you once shared with me abreakthrough or an insight that
you had about a pattern that wasplaying out on Saturday
mornings that you didn't realizewas rooted in childhood.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know, when you're in porn addiction you cope a
lot of different ways.
But here's the thing aboutpornography for most people we
use that as a big umbrella.
But underneath pornographythere's all these types of porn
that people watch, right.
That's where the shame is right, because we know most men they
watch porn, right.
Like, statistically speaking,most men watch porn and they're
(15:50):
like oh yeah, I've seen it onceor twice.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And at this point to say the word porn doesn't
actually mean that much.
We need to get particular.
The power is in theparticularity.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because that's where judgment comes right.
That's where the judgment feelslike oh, you watch S&M, oh,
you're watching same-sexattraction porn.
Oh, you're watching bestiality.
Oh you're watching this, oh youhave this fetish.
Like that's where people startto feel like, oh my gosh.
And interesting enough, thatcounselor one of the things that
(16:24):
he did we did a group coachingconversation with a group of men
and I remember one of the mostfreeing moments was he just kind
of went through a list of allthe different types of
pornography out there at thetime and, very matter of fact,
he wasn't trying to shame me, hewas like but here's what it is
and here's how you may feelright and why you're watching
(16:45):
this type of porn.
And it was just so insightfuland like the freedom that people
had.
So fast forward to ourconversation.
Um, we were talking aboutchildhood and like how sometimes
you may have some childhoodrejection and you cope a
different way.
And somehow you and I got intoconversations of like Saturday
morning cartoons.
I don't even exactly rememberhow we got into it, but you said
something that I just rememberthinking to myself oh my gosh,
(17:10):
the porn that I struggled with alot when I was younger was was
hentai and if, for those of youwho don't know what that is,
that's like anime porn, right,like that's cartoon porn.
However you want to look at it,my coping mechanism was escape.
I wanted to escape to a placewhere I felt safe.
And for me, the moments where Ifelt the safest as I remember
(17:31):
as a little kid was sitting inmy room watching Saturday
morning cartoons and I justremember thinking like this is
it, this is the safest thing,all these cartoons that I could
think about.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's another world where none of this abuse and
pain and shame is happening.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That gave you an escape and it makes so much
sense that you would be drawn toporn that maybe felt similar
through anime exactly I knew bigpicture porn was the thing that
I went to, for comfort, forescape, for satisfaction right,
(18:13):
there's so many things that Iwas trying to cope for, for some
sort of semblance of ecstaticjoy, right, where that wasn't my
home life, that wasn't mypersonal life right, I went to
it.
But then, when you and I weretalking about it, it was one of
those things of like oh my goshis also for safety, and this is
the only time I remember beingsafe was watching anime or
(18:34):
cartoons, and this is why I waspursuing anime, and it was just
one of those things where, likeyou know, I haven't watched
anime or hentai in like 15 plusyears, but just to even see it
in my own life.
So, for those of you who arelistening to this, I've been
free from porn for 16 plus years.
Now I still am being revealedhow God is shaping me and
(18:57):
forming me and how certaintriggers I had were caused by
certain things, and now I'm ableto analyze it a lot better,
like, oh, this is why I'mstressed out about this.
Let's deal with itappropriately.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I love that so much and like praise God for 16 plus
years of freedom, and also notjust freedom from those
behaviors, but freedom for whoyou are and what you're doing
now.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And if anything, for the guys who are listening to
this, that's the thing I wantthem to walk away with is like
who can you become right and whohas God destined you to be?
And listen very carefully.
I'm not saying what are yougoing to do right now, but it's
just who are you going to be?
Being comes before doing, andso many times we get that
(19:44):
backwards because we try to findmen as men.
We try to find our identity inwhat we do, not who we are.
When I started to understandwhat identity in Christ looked
like, to understand whatidentity in Christ looked like,
I grabbed hold of it so tightBecause I realized that my
(20:05):
identity doesn't come from who Iam or what I do, or what I'm
capable of, or the giftings orthe skill sets.
It's solely by who he createdme to be.
I am made in the image of Godand when I put my trust and
faith in him, he redeems me.
And all of a sudden he says youare a child of God, you are now
in co-heir, you are a royalpriesthood.
And for me, like Ephesians 1, 3to 4 says this like before the
(20:26):
foundations of the earth, we arecalled pure and blameless, like
men I'm going to get a littleexcited here.
Hopefully you guys are okaywith this Like for us to be
called holy and blameless.
Think about that For those ofyou who struggle with
pornography.
You see yourself as dirty, yousee yourself as worthless, you
(20:46):
see yourself as ugly.
And he's like you are holy.
That means you're set apart.
You are blameless.
That means that there's noimperfections.
When God sees you, he seesperfection, he sees beauty, not
because you're good.
He sees the imputation ofChrist.
He sees Christ through you andhe's like you're my son and I
love you and you're pure andyou're clean.
You're not dirty.
And for me, for someone who wasabused, who was like I felt
(21:10):
broken, I felt completelydestroyed, I felt completely
dismayed and I just didn't knowwho I was to be told.
Hey, you are worthy because ofwhat Christ has done.
You are clean because of whoChrist is.
You are holy because that'swhat I've called you to do.
It was radical and that's whatI see now and that's what I
(21:33):
think most men need in theirlife today.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It changes everything 100%.
We fall into this mindset thatwhat I do determines who I am
good or bad.
But the truth of the gospel isthat who you are determines what
you do determines what you do,in the sense that when we see
(21:57):
ourselves as Jesus sees us, westart to live in alignment with
that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Once I started getting healing, one of the
things that my counselor walkedme through is find other men who
you can start helping them inthe journey.
And so for the last 15 yearsI've been helping men overcome
freedom from pornography andalso from just abuse.
Just because of my story, Iunderstand it more intimately
that I can help most men.
But one of the things that Iwalk through men in their
journey first and foremost, it'snot actually like here's all
(22:29):
these behavior modificationthings that you need to do,
here's a rubber band and put iton your wrist and slap None of
that.
Honestly, what I do is I sayand put it on your wrist and
slap None of that.
Honestly, what I do is I saylet's walk through your identity
in Christ For 30 days.
Let's just figure out who youare and get you to memorize
scripture of who you are inChrist.
(22:49):
I'll give you a fun story ofhow this worked.
I remember I was walking with aguy.
He was struggling with pornaddiction.
He didn't know why and I justmet him.
I didn't know his story and Iwas just hanging out with him.
I'm like why do you feel likeyou are so stuck in pornography?
And he said to me Ken, I justfeel like I'm dirty and I'm
(23:13):
completely unworthy of God'sgrace.
I just feel like I'm dirty andI'm completely unworthy of God's
grace.
I'm like okay, this is good.
Can we do a quick 10-minuteexercise here in the coffee shop
?
I promise it won't feel weird.
He's like sure.
I said grab your Bible andlet's just read it.
I quoted Ephesians 1, 3, or 4earlier.
I said let's just read it.
So he just read it and he'slike okay, cool, now what?
(23:34):
I'm like, read it again.
He's like I read it.
I'm like okay, cool, read itagain.
And he's like you're gettingweird.
I'm like just read it out loud,like three or four more times
and probably within the sixthtime he just started crying
right there in the coffee shop,unbeknownst, like I didn't do
(23:56):
anything.
I was just having him read thepassage and I said and I of
course knew why he was crying,right, but I said hey, man,
what's going on?
He's like this is the firsttime and I'm just going to tear
up because it's so beautiful tosee all the time.
It's like this is the firsttime that I actually see and
hear that God said I'm see, andhear that God said I'm pure and
(24:18):
I'm blameless and I'm worthy.
He's like.
He's like this is who I am andhe's like getting excited at a
coffee shop.
He's like he's like this is whoI am and I'm like exactly.
And then I said now here'swhat's going to happen.
You're going to get in your car, you're going to be really
ecstatic, but the enemy is goingto try to attack you.
So for the next 30 days, wejust need to hit this hard and
(24:41):
there's all these scriptures,all these passages in the Bible
that talks about who you are inChrist, and we just need to get
you to a place where you'rememorizing that, you're living
that out Because, trust me, whenyou start to think and believe
in who you actually are, you'renot going to want to do those
things.
You're going to live out whoyou believe you're called to.
Most men they fall back intopornography because they're like
(25:04):
well, because I feel uncleanand I believe, and I'm unclean
and I'm unworthy and I'm alustful being, then I'm just
going to go do those lustfulthings and it's like well, no,
no, no.
If you are a child of God,you're going to go do things a
child of God does.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's like when I go into my room and if my room is
totally clean, I don't want tomake a mess on the floor, and I
feel like something similarhappens with our identity 100%.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You know, I think about Romans, chapter 6.
He says reckon yourself, that'skind of like old school
terminology.
But New York translation says,uh, reckon yourself, that's kind
of like old school terminology.
But, um, new York translationsays, like, consider yourself
dead to sin and alive in Christand alive to righteousness.
And it's like, well, whenyou're alive, like, what do you
do?
You?
You do the things that alivepeople do.
(25:50):
You don't do things that peopledo, and I think a lot of times,
pornography is what dead peopledo, not alive people do, right,
and I love that analogy of like.
I can't tell you how many timesI go into, like, a guest's house
, right, and it's really clean.
Well, what's the first thingyou do when you walk into
someone's clean house?
You like take off your shoesbecause you're like, I don't
want to mess this up, right, buthow many of you have ever gone
(26:13):
to a place that's a little dirtyand you could tell like their
carpets, and that's like youdon't care, like you're just
going to keep your shoes on?
Your natural instinct is, oh,this is fine, I'm going to live
this way and this is what god'scalled us to.
He's like no, no, you'reactually clean and this is, if
anything, the hardest thing forpeople who are christians and
believe in jesus that, like godactually says, you clean.
(26:35):
That's the hardest thing forthem to believe, because they
believe they're dirty.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, john, 15, three .
You are already clean becauseof the word I've spoken to you.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, and that's the thing that I'm always constantly
telling men like no, no, seeyourself the way God sees you.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
And that's why I always end every episode saying
always remember you are God'sbeloved son.
In you he is well-pleased.
I love it.
And as we're talking aboutidentity in Christ, some of you
guys might be thinking well, Idon't feel that way.
I can't experience what you'retalking about.
(27:09):
Oftentimes, the beliefs that wehave about who we are are not
just intellectual, they're inour bodies, they've been shaped
by our stories and that's whyit's a both and of the deeper
healing work that engages ourchildhood and our sexual
fantasies, and also getting thisfoundation that Ken is talking
(27:32):
about at a heart level, likethat guy in the coffee shop who
was just saying it over and overagain, but eventually it sank
into his heart, and that's wherethe healing and transformation
really starts to gain momentumdo you remember in the the lion
king, when, uh, simba's likelooking into the mirror, into
the water, oh right.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And mufasa's like remember, right, simba?
remember who you are Right andit's just like bro.
I watched that movie.
I think you and I were actuallytexting each other back and
forth a while back, but it wasduring the holidays and my sons
were watching, my kids werewatching it for Christmas and,
(28:12):
dude, I started crying andthey're like what's wrong?
Because it's just, it'sactually such a powerful scene
for adults and I'm like that'swho I am.
You know, like my son is likemy son is so chill, he's just
sitting there.
He's like what's wrong with you?
I'm like nothing's wrong, buddy.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm clean, I'm pure.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm pure.
But so going back to thatanalogy of like the water was
clean enough for him to actuallysee.
But bitterness muddieseverything and that's where, for
many of most men, sometimes wedo have to look at our childhood
, we do have to look at our pastand we probably have to go
through a forgiveness of anybodywho hurt us.
And here's the thing For someof you who are listening to this
(28:57):
thank God you didn't have to gothrough my story.
That's not you, but you're likewell, I didn't go through that
thing, so I guess I don't knowwhat the path is.
I'm not that messed up, butyou'd feel the same way.
This is where Drew and I we'vetalked about.
It doesn't matter, my sufferingdoesn't have to equate to your
suffering.
All of us have suffered.
(29:18):
All of us have had some sort ofrejection, some sort of pain,
some sort of wound, some sort ofacceptance that we have to walk
through and forgive thoseindividuals.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And I would argue that anyone who encountered porn
at an early age is a survivorof childhood sexual abuse.
Porn vandalizes our sexualityfrom such a young age.
I think in many ways porn is anabuser Porn itself definitely
violates us.
Right, so we all have healingwork to do.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yes, Step one is just feeling like you're not alone
in this crazy world and likethere are people around you and
I know, Drew, you've created agreat community of people and
men who are trying to do thistogether.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yes, and together.
When we share our stories andbring our deepest shame into the
light, it loses its power andporn doesn't have to control us
anymore.
Ken, what is your favoritething about freedom from porn?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Oh man, my favorite thing is the incredible joy that
I have day in and day out.
When we talk about freedom,right, you're like, oh, I want
to be free from this thing.
I had a great.
I had a guest on my podcastthat he put it really well.
He said, ken, when I was stuckin porn, what I felt like I was
(30:47):
always living a double life, Iwas hiding things and I always
had to set up plans to make surethat I was never getting caught
.
And he's like, now that I'mfree, he's like I could just be
myself.
I don't have to hide, there'snot the stressor of it.
He's like I could just be fullypresent.
(31:10):
And for me, that fully presentmeant that I am full of a lot of
joy.
You know, when I got rid of allthe bitterness and I found my
identity and I started walkingmy purpose, man, I'm really
excited, I'm really joyful.
Drew, if you would have met mewhen I was 16, I was very angry.
I mean, there was a lot Like myface always looked like I
wanted to stab someone.
But I was like 16 and weighed100 pounds.
I was like a little chihuahua,all right, like I wasn't killing
(31:31):
anybody or hurting anything.
Now, when people meet me, it'slike I'm always laughing, I'm
always happy, I'm full of joy.
Why?
Because, like man, I know whatGod has done for me and it's
just like I want to share thatwith everybody.
And my kids don't see an angrydad, they see a joyful dad and
that's what I love.
They're like oh, my dad's,because that's what I wanted.
(31:52):
So when you talk about what isthe freedom man?
Just full of joy, fully seeingwho God is being in his presence
.
Psalm 1611 says in his presencethere's fullness of joy.
It's not a feeling.
I know because it says it inHebrews where I could just enter
the throne room of grace andthat's where I'm at.
It's just a place where I'mconfident in who I am as a son.
I'm confident in who I am as ason.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I'm confident in who God has made me to be that I
could come to him anytime and Icould share that with others.
Praise God, ken.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story and for hosting your
podcast.
You guys can find it theShameless Podcast.
Where can people go to hearmore from you?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, so I actually have a website called
scripturesblog, right, that'swhere they can find, uh, the
shameless podcast.
And then also, I'm on allsocial media platforms.
You just go to kenfrede onInstagram or or Facebook or
LinkedIn.
I'm on all major social mediaplatforms.
Would love to hang out with youguys again.
That's kenfredere F-R-E-I-R-E.
It's a tongue twister.
Drew killed it.
The first time he said it, Iwas like, wow, that was
(33:05):
impressive.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, it shows you that I grew up in Puerto Rico
and Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, no, I mean bro, seriously, like anytime people
I tell them my last name,they're like and you were just
like.
Oh, I'm like dang, bro, that'swhat I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You got me really excited.
Well, your joy is contagious.
So guys go down to the links inthe show notes If you want to
connect with Ken and alwaysremember you are God's beloved
son in you, he is well pleased.
Let me say that again A fewmore more times just because of
this interview.
Let it sink in you are God'sbeloved son In you.
(33:50):
He is well-pleased.
You are God's beloved son Inyou.
He is well-placed.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Hey man, thank you forlistening to my interview with
(00:21):
Ken Freire.
He has an amazing story ofgoing from shame, sexual abuse
and so much anger to identity inChrist and joy.
And you're not only going tohear Ken's story.
You will hear some wonderfulwisdom from the Word of God.
That's such a great foundationto outgrow porn and find lasting
(00:45):
freedom.
Enjoy the episode.
Today I'm hanging out with KenFreire.
I'm so excited to have him onthe show.
I got to be on his podcast,which is called Shameless.
It's a great resource.
You should go check it out.
Welcome, ken.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hey Drew, thank you so much for having me on the
podcast, and kudos to you, man,for nailing my last name.
That's a feat within itself, sowe're off to a good start.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Awesome, Ken.
Why are you so passionate aboutfreedom from porn and shame?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, you know I was addicted to porn since the age
of five and I know we'll diginto that quite a bit today.
But the biggest thing was thatI see so many men who are
addicted to pornography or whohave been stuck in the cycle of
shame that at the end of the day, they don't end up seeing their
(01:35):
greatest potential or theirGod-given purpose.
And I believe that God hascalled us that if we can break
free from shame and break freefrom this addiction, we'll see
greater men in society, we'llsee greater husbands, we'll see
great fathers, and that's whatwe need today in this world
where it feels crooked anddepraved and so dark and
(01:56):
everything that you hear is allabout toxic masculinity and just
how people don't know how to bethemselves fully, what God has
called them to be.
People don't know how to bethemselves fully what God has
called them to be.
So I'm just super excited toshare how God has shaped me, how
God has formed me to really bea vessel for his glory.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I love that, Ken, as you look back on your story,
even to the age of five.
How did this all start for you?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, unfortunately for me, you know, it started
because I was sexually abusedwhen I was younger.
For me, you know, it startedbecause I was sexually abused
when I was younger, so from likethe age of three to five, and
the person who introduced me topornography was the same person
who had abused me.
So it skewed my worldview onsexual ethics and what sexuality
(02:39):
should look like for a man, andfor years I was well.
The first few years I wasactually just repressing all of
those emotions, all thosefeelings.
I was like I don't even want tothink about this stuff.
I don't know if this actuallyhappened.
It might've just been somefigment of my imagination, but
the reality is that I started tocome to grips with it and I
(03:01):
became really angry individual.
And it wasn't like it washappening every day or anything
like that, but there weremultiple occasions throughout
those years that I just remembervividly what had happened to me
and how I was touched and how Iwas forced to do things to
other individuals, and that justshaped my view of really what I
(03:23):
thought manhood should looklike.
I had a very broken identityfor years and in fact, if I'm
honest with myself, it's stillsomething that God is walking me
through and helping me everyday to learn more and more of
how should I walk in my identityin Christ.
But for years, man, I justsuffered.
You know I think the best wayto put it is I used to tell
people from more of Hispanicculture is kind of more
(03:46):
patriarchal culture, right?
I was like I had this massiveissue where I was like manhood
was all about being tough, beingstrong, being firm, being able
to be like the captain.
You're like the head honcho.
Maybe, like machismo, machismo,yeah, yeah, right, and I was
just like, but for me I feltlike the complete opposite.
I felt like worthless.
(04:08):
I felt completely scared.
I felt completely hurtful.
When I looked in the mirror, Iwas just a little boy who was
abused and everyone would takeadvantage of me, and I was
bullied.
When I was younger, I felt likeI just had all these stigmas of
what manhood should look like,and then they were gone.
You know, because of my scarredview and what had happened to
(04:30):
me.
Really, you know all thesuffering that I had incurred.
All of a sudden, I was justlike man.
I can never achieve that typeof manhood, even if I wanted to.
I'm starting at negative 10 inthe race where some people might
start at five or two.
You know, I was like I'mdisqualified.
So for a long time I just feltdisqualified and I think a lot
of men today feel disqualifiedand it might not be because of
(04:53):
abuse, but it might just bebecause of their porn addiction,
right, and that men.
Those two things just spiraledme into this guilt and shame of
like me trying to earn myidentity, when it's not
something I earn, it's somethingthat's given to me by the grace
of God through forgiveness andredemption.
But like I didn't know thatback then, so I just tried to do
(05:14):
as much as possible to try togain favor from God and from
others, when I knew deep down Iwas struggling with something
much, much more insidious andtorturous from the suffering
that I had heard.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Your story is a great example of what we say at
Husband Material.
It's not men who get hooked onporn, it's boys.
So we need to heal the boy, tofree the man.
When did things start to changefor you?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Things actually got worse before they got better,
and I tell that to people allthe time in their healing
journey that sometimes it getsworse before it gets better.
I, around the age of 12 and 14,I started to really recognize
the pain that happened to me andI was angry at God.
First and foremost, I was likeGod, why would you let this
happen to a little boy?
(06:04):
And if you're in a theologicalspheres, that's called theodicy,
right, the problem of pain, theproblem of suffering, and that
was my biggest pain point ofactually rejecting God, because
I just didn't understand whatwas going on.
So for me, the biggest thingthat I had to work through was
just this reality of like God.
I'm so mad that this happenedand you allowed it, so I'm just
(06:26):
going to reject everything thatyou're about.
And I just ran full force intodebauchery and sin so fast
forward to the age of 16.
I mean, I was already sexuallyactive, I was still addicted to
pornography, I was manipulatingwomen, I was doing just about
anything I really wanted to, andwhat I thought God would hate I
did.
At the age of 16, I slept withsomeone and it went really
(06:50):
horrible.
I contracted an STD and I justlike life was horrible and I was
still angry at God.
And here's the funny thing whenyou are suffering from
something that happened to youlike me, I had a wound, someone
hurt me Because I wasn't me.
I had a wound, someone hurt meBecause I wasn't healed, I in
(07:13):
turn hurt other people.
So I just remember being in areally rock bottom place, that
at the age of 16, I decided toend my life and I was getting
ready to commit suicide and thisis a long story so I'm just
trying to condense it into aconcise point.
But that night, when I wasgoing to end my life, god
radically came into my room andmet me there.
I just felt the complete despairand frustration and
(07:38):
hopelessness that this worldsucks and there's so much pain,
so much sin, so much sufferingand I just couldn't escape it.
And I would have all thesespiritual, demonic nightmares.
For those who have been abused,this is very common where they
have these nightmares, ongoing,nightmares of like feeling like,
(08:00):
oh my gosh, they're repeatingthese same stories, or like
almost demons attacking them.
Like I had all of that stuffgoing on in my life since the
age of five to 16.
And I just remember just cryingout to God saying God, why me
Like, why this, this is horrible?
Like I don't have any joy.
There was no hope in my heart.
(08:20):
All I felt was just agony.
Hope in my heart, all I feltwas just agony, and the only
escape that I thought was justend my life, just be done with
it, because that seems waybetter, right, having no
feelings seems way better thanhaving all these negative
feelings that I was strugglingwith.
And that's when God man, hejust broke in.
(08:41):
You know, I tell people all thetime sometimes they might not be
in like the charismatic world,and I don't sometimes even know
how to explain it, but it wasthe first time, and very few
times I ever feel like I heardthe audible voice of God in my
room and he said to me thispassage in scripture, which I
didn't know back then, I wasn'tmemorizing scripture.
Clearly from my story, right, Iwasn't memorizing scripture,
(09:04):
but this is what I heard in,like I felt like he was talking
to me, like you're talking to meright now.
He said, ken, do not bediscouraged, do not be dismayed,
but be strong and courageous,for the lord, your god, is with
you wherever you go.
And for those of you who knowthat passage is joshua 1 9.
And I remember for the firsttime just crying like you know
(09:24):
that like snot nose, kind ofcrying, like all of it gunk,
everything like for hours,torture, that I was feeling.
(09:48):
The one thing that I was trulycrying out for is for someone to
see me and someone to know meand someone to hear me.
And it was the first time Ifelt like God was hearing me and
anybody heard me and just like,oh my gosh, he's like, do not
be discouraged, do not bedismayed, but be strong and
courageous, for the Lord, yourGod, is with you.
And I remember, like, thinkinglike, lord, you're with me, like
, are you sure?
Like, and I wrestled through it, man, I mean, I was really
(10:09):
wrestling, like, really, wereyou Like, were you there when I
was being abused?
Were you there when I feltlonely?
Were you there when I was angry?
Were you there, like hours ofme just crying out to God?
But I couldn't explain thetheological aspect back then.
Now I have better language forit.
But what I do know is that itwas a stepping stone, the shift
for me to say God, thank you,I'm going to be with you.
(10:32):
This is going to be a reallyhard journey.
I'm going to be with you.
This is going to be a reallyhard journey.
I'm going to have a lot ofquestions for you, but I want to
know you more, and if you'rethe only one who can heal me,
then so be it.
But let's take this baby steps,because I don't know how else
to do it.
I don't fully trust you yet,god, but I'm going to start,
since I had this massivebreakthrough in my room that
(10:53):
night, so that was a turningpoint.
I had to hit rock bottom beforeI could actually turn.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You were 16 years old after that turning point.
What happened next?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It actually took a few years, from 16 to probably
19, where I was reallystruggling.
And this is probably where mostpeople who are in husband
material might feel right, likethey know they should be doing
the right thing, but they'restruggling to go in two steps
forward, one step backwards.
And that's exactly where I wasall the time, and a part of it
was I was doing it alone.
(11:26):
I wasn't getting any peopleinvolved in my story.
I didn't share my story withanyone.
You know, at this point Ihaven't told anyone my story.
It was just between me and God.
And for those of you who arelistening to this, you may be in
that same situation whereyou're like, hey, I'm in this
community, but I haven't reallyshared my story with anyone yet,
I'm just going to keep it tomyself and God.
(11:46):
That is probably one of thehardest positions for you to put
yourself in, because you'reseeing other people get hope and
you think that if you're justaround them you might get
freedom.
But that's not how it works.
Shame is undone when you revealits secrets.
Amen, right, and this is why,for those of you who are in
(12:12):
Drew's community, I implore youshare, find the people that you
trust If you need to go to Drewor one of Drew's coaches, man,
do it.
It will literally be one of thebiggest things that you could
do for your freedom.
And Drew, that's what happenedto me, man, I remember for those
few years I battled and then,when I was 19, I moved, actually
from New York City that's whereI was born and raised.
I moved to Texas and I found acounselor there.
(12:34):
He was a good counselor and heradically just walked me through
baby steps.
And I'm telling you I neededthe baby steps because part of
the story that I skipped is thatwhen, at the age of 16, the
thing that made me want to endmy life was that I thought to
myself I know, I'm in a badplace, I need help, so the only
(12:55):
way to get help is if I tellsomeone.
So I went to a counselor to tryto share my story.
And this counselor, all theysaid to me was, after I shared
all my sin, all my problems,everything they're like.
Well, ken, I'm hearing you andI think, honestly, the reason
why you guys did all this wasjust because they were bored and
(13:16):
you were bored.
So you were just testing thingsout and I'm like gosh, testing
things out.
I was like that was that,that's not what people, kids, do
I mean, I have four kids likethat's not what you do, right,
and I was just dude.
I like I took everything in mypower not to punch this
counselor in the face because Ijust felt completely unheard,
(13:38):
completely ignored, completelylike oh, here's a pat answer
Just go walk away, you're fine.
But this is all 16 years offrustration and I'm sure, drew,
you've heard this from a lot ofpeople in your community.
So then this counselor fastforward to this great counselor
that I met, man.
He just walked with me Babysteps, a couple of big steps
(13:58):
that he walked me through at theage of 19.
Number one was forgiveness.
I had to walk through a lot ofjust what true forgiveness looks
like, not just the superficialforgiveness.
The second thing was learningmy identity.
That was such a big thing forme, drew, because honestly, like
what we talked about earlier, Ijust didn't know who I was,
(14:19):
what my identity looked like.
So he walked me throughidentity.
And then the third one was hejust walked me through purpose,
like genuine, like what is myGod-given purpose.
What I have found most men wherethey get stuck in their healing
journey is that they so muchfocus on the past that they
don't actually look at thefuture.
And it's both right, like Godsaves us from something to
(14:44):
something.
You need to do both right.
You need to be healed right,heal the boy right, like you
need that.
And then, when you become a man, you need to actually start
walking into your God-givenpurpose.
So, well said, don't just staythere.
And that's where most peopleman.
You need to actually startwalking into your God-given
purpose.
So, well said, don't just staythere.
And that's where most peopleget stuck is they stay there and
then they're like, oh, why didI relapse?
It's because you're acting likea boy when you're supposed to
(15:05):
be a man.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, it's true, and we often don't realize the ways
that that's happening.
Ken, you once shared with me abreakthrough or an insight that
you had about a pattern that wasplaying out on Saturday
mornings that you didn't realizewas rooted in childhood.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know, when you're in porn addiction you cope a
lot of different ways.
But here's the thing aboutpornography for most people we
use that as a big umbrella.
But underneath pornographythere's all these types of porn
that people watch, right.
That's where the shame is right, because we know most men they
watch porn, right.
Like, statistically speaking,most men watch porn and they're
(15:50):
like oh yeah, I've seen it onceor twice.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And at this point to say the word porn doesn't
actually mean that much.
We need to get particular.
The power is in theparticularity.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because that's where judgment comes right.
That's where the judgment feelslike oh, you watch S&M, oh,
you're watching same-sexattraction porn.
Oh, you're watching bestiality.
Oh you're watching this, oh youhave this fetish.
Like that's where people startto feel like, oh my gosh.
And interesting enough, thatcounselor one of the things that
(16:24):
he did we did a group coachingconversation with a group of men
and I remember one of the mostfreeing moments was he just kind
of went through a list of allthe different types of
pornography out there at thetime and, very matter of fact,
he wasn't trying to shame me, hewas like but here's what it is
and here's how you may feelright and why you're watching
(16:45):
this type of porn.
And it was just so insightfuland like the freedom that people
had.
So fast forward to ourconversation.
Um, we were talking aboutchildhood and like how sometimes
you may have some childhoodrejection and you cope a
different way.
And somehow you and I got intoconversations of like Saturday
morning cartoons.
I don't even exactly rememberhow we got into it, but you said
something that I just rememberthinking to myself oh my gosh,
(17:10):
the porn that I struggled with alot when I was younger was was
hentai and if, for those of youwho don't know what that is,
that's like anime porn, right,like that's cartoon porn.
However you want to look at it,my coping mechanism was escape.
I wanted to escape to a placewhere I felt safe.
And for me, the moments where Ifelt the safest as I remember
(17:31):
as a little kid was sitting inmy room watching Saturday
morning cartoons and I justremember thinking like this is
it, this is the safest thing,all these cartoons that I could
think about.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's another world where none of this abuse and
pain and shame is happening.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That gave you an escape and it makes so much
sense that you would be drawn toporn that maybe felt similar
through anime exactly I knew bigpicture porn was the thing that
I went to, for comfort, forescape, for satisfaction right,
(18:13):
there's so many things that Iwas trying to cope for, for some
sort of semblance of ecstaticjoy, right, where that wasn't my
home life, that wasn't mypersonal life right, I went to
it.
But then, when you and I weretalking about it, it was one of
those things of like oh my goshis also for safety, and this is
the only time I remember beingsafe was watching anime or
(18:34):
cartoons, and this is why I waspursuing anime, and it was just
one of those things where, likeyou know, I haven't watched
anime or hentai in like 15 plusyears, but just to even see it
in my own life.
So, for those of you who arelistening to this, I've been
free from porn for 16 plus years.
Now I still am being revealedhow God is shaping me and
(18:57):
forming me and how certaintriggers I had were caused by
certain things, and now I'm ableto analyze it a lot better,
like, oh, this is why I'mstressed out about this.
Let's deal with itappropriately.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I love that so much and like praise God for 16 plus
years of freedom, and also notjust freedom from those
behaviors, but freedom for whoyou are and what you're doing
now.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And if anything, for the guys who are listening to
this, that's the thing I wantthem to walk away with is like
who can you become right and whohas God destined you to be?
And listen very carefully.
I'm not saying what are yougoing to do right now, but it's
just who are you going to be?
Being comes before doing, andso many times we get that
(19:44):
backwards because we try to findmen as men.
We try to find our identity inwhat we do, not who we are.
When I started to understandwhat identity in Christ looked
like, to understand whatidentity in Christ looked like,
I grabbed hold of it so tightBecause I realized that my
(20:05):
identity doesn't come from who Iam or what I do, or what I'm
capable of, or the giftings orthe skill sets.
It's solely by who he createdme to be.
I am made in the image of Godand when I put my trust and
faith in him, he redeems me.
And all of a sudden he says youare a child of God, you are now
in co-heir, you are a royalpriesthood.
And for me, like Ephesians 1, 3to 4 says this like before the
(20:26):
foundations of the earth, we arecalled pure and blameless, like
men I'm going to get a littleexcited here.
Hopefully you guys are okaywith this Like for us to be
called holy and blameless.
Think about that For those ofyou who struggle with
pornography.
You see yourself as dirty, yousee yourself as worthless, you
(20:46):
see yourself as ugly.
And he's like you are holy.
That means you're set apart.
You are blameless.
That means that there's noimperfections.
When God sees you, he seesperfection, he sees beauty, not
because you're good.
He sees the imputation ofChrist.
He sees Christ through you andhe's like you're my son and I
love you and you're pure andyou're clean.
You're not dirty.
And for me, for someone who wasabused, who was like I felt
(21:10):
broken, I felt completelydestroyed, I felt completely
dismayed and I just didn't knowwho I was to be told.
Hey, you are worthy because ofwhat Christ has done.
You are clean because of whoChrist is.
You are holy because that'swhat I've called you to do.
It was radical and that's whatI see now and that's what I
(21:33):
think most men need in theirlife today.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It changes everything 100%.
We fall into this mindset thatwhat I do determines who I am
good or bad.
But the truth of the gospel isthat who you are determines what
you do determines what you do,in the sense that when we see
(21:57):
ourselves as Jesus sees us, westart to live in alignment with
that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Once I started getting healing, one of the
things that my counselor walkedme through is find other men who
you can start helping them inthe journey.
And so for the last 15 yearsI've been helping men overcome
freedom from pornography andalso from just abuse.
Just because of my story, Iunderstand it more intimately
that I can help most men.
But one of the things that Iwalk through men in their
journey first and foremost, it'snot actually like here's all
(22:29):
these behavior modificationthings that you need to do,
here's a rubber band and put iton your wrist and slap None of
that.
Honestly, what I do is I sayand put it on your wrist and
slap None of that.
Honestly, what I do is I saylet's walk through your identity
in Christ For 30 days.
Let's just figure out who youare and get you to memorize
scripture of who you are inChrist.
(22:49):
I'll give you a fun story ofhow this worked.
I remember I was walking with aguy.
He was struggling with pornaddiction.
He didn't know why and I justmet him.
I didn't know his story and Iwas just hanging out with him.
I'm like why do you feel likeyou are so stuck in pornography?
And he said to me Ken, I justfeel like I'm dirty and I'm
(23:13):
completely unworthy of God'sgrace.
I just feel like I'm dirty andI'm completely unworthy of God's
grace.
I'm like okay, this is good.
Can we do a quick 10-minuteexercise here in the coffee shop
?
I promise it won't feel weird.
He's like sure.
I said grab your Bible andlet's just read it.
I quoted Ephesians 1, 3, or 4earlier.
I said let's just read it.
So he just read it and he'slike okay, cool, now what?
(23:34):
I'm like, read it again.
He's like I read it.
I'm like okay, cool, read itagain.
And he's like you're gettingweird.
I'm like just read it out loud,like three or four more times
and probably within the sixthtime he just started crying
right there in the coffee shop,unbeknownst, like I didn't do
(23:56):
anything.
I was just having him read thepassage and I said and I of
course knew why he was crying,right, but I said hey, man,
what's going on?
He's like this is the firsttime and I'm just going to tear
up because it's so beautiful tosee all the time.
It's like this is the firsttime that I actually see and
hear that God said I'm see, andhear that God said I'm pure and
(24:18):
I'm blameless and I'm worthy.
He's like.
He's like this is who I am andhe's like getting excited at a
coffee shop.
He's like he's like this is whoI am and I'm like exactly.
And then I said now here'swhat's going to happen.
You're going to get in your car, you're going to be really
ecstatic, but the enemy is goingto try to attack you.
So for the next 30 days, wejust need to hit this hard and
(24:41):
there's all these scriptures,all these passages in the Bible
that talks about who you are inChrist, and we just need to get
you to a place where you'rememorizing that, you're living
that out Because, trust me, whenyou start to think and believe
in who you actually are, you'renot going to want to do those
things.
You're going to live out whoyou believe you're called to.
Most men they fall back intopornography because they're like
(25:04):
well, because I feel uncleanand I believe, and I'm unclean
and I'm unworthy and I'm alustful being, then I'm just
going to go do those lustfulthings and it's like well, no,
no, no.
If you are a child of God,you're going to go do things a
child of God does.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's like when I go into my room and if my room is
totally clean, I don't want tomake a mess on the floor, and I
feel like something similarhappens with our identity 100%.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You know, I think about Romans, chapter 6.
He says reckon yourself, that'skind of like old school
terminology.
But New York translation says,uh, reckon yourself, that's kind
of like old school terminology.
But, um, new York translationsays, like, consider yourself
dead to sin and alive in Christand alive to righteousness.
And it's like, well, whenyou're alive, like, what do you
do?
You?
You do the things that alivepeople do.
(25:50):
You don't do things that peopledo, and I think a lot of times,
pornography is what dead peopledo, not alive people do, right,
and I love that analogy of like.
I can't tell you how many timesI go into, like, a guest's house
, right, and it's really clean.
Well, what's the first thingyou do when you walk into
someone's clean house?
You like take off your shoesbecause you're like, I don't
want to mess this up, right, buthow many of you have ever gone
(26:13):
to a place that's a little dirtyand you could tell like their
carpets, and that's like youdon't care, like you're just
going to keep your shoes on?
Your natural instinct is, oh,this is fine, I'm going to live
this way and this is what god'scalled us to.
He's like no, no, you'reactually clean and this is, if
anything, the hardest thing forpeople who are christians and
believe in jesus that, like godactually says, you clean.
(26:35):
That's the hardest thing forthem to believe, because they
believe they're dirty.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, john, 15, three .
You are already clean becauseof the word I've spoken to you.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, and that's the thing that I'm always constantly
telling men like no, no, seeyourself the way God sees you.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
And that's why I always end every episode saying
always remember you are God'sbeloved son.
In you he is well-pleased.
I love it.
And as we're talking aboutidentity in Christ, some of you
guys might be thinking well, Idon't feel that way.
I can't experience what you'retalking about.
(27:09):
Oftentimes, the beliefs that wehave about who we are are not
just intellectual, they're inour bodies, they've been shaped
by our stories and that's whyit's a both and of the deeper
healing work that engages ourchildhood and our sexual
fantasies, and also getting thisfoundation that Ken is talking
(27:32):
about at a heart level, likethat guy in the coffee shop who
was just saying it over and overagain, but eventually it sank
into his heart, and that's wherethe healing and transformation
really starts to gain momentumdo you remember in the the lion
king, when, uh, simba's likelooking into the mirror, into
the water, oh right.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And mufasa's like remember, right, simba?
remember who you are Right andit's just like bro.
I watched that movie.
I think you and I were actuallytexting each other back and
forth a while back, but it wasduring the holidays and my sons
were watching, my kids werewatching it for Christmas and,
(28:12):
dude, I started crying andthey're like what's wrong?
Because it's just, it'sactually such a powerful scene
for adults and I'm like that'swho I am.
You know, like my son is likemy son is so chill, he's just
sitting there.
He's like what's wrong with you?
I'm like nothing's wrong, buddy.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm clean, I'm pure.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm pure.
But so going back to thatanalogy of like the water was
clean enough for him to actuallysee.
But bitterness muddieseverything and that's where, for
many of most men, sometimes wedo have to look at our childhood
, we do have to look at our pastand we probably have to go
through a forgiveness of anybodywho hurt us.
And here's the thing For someof you who are listening to this
(28:57):
thank God you didn't have to gothrough my story.
That's not you, but you're likewell, I didn't go through that
thing, so I guess I don't knowwhat the path is.
I'm not that messed up, butyou'd feel the same way.
This is where Drew and I we'vetalked about.
It doesn't matter, my sufferingdoesn't have to equate to your
suffering.
All of us have suffered.
(29:18):
All of us have had some sort ofrejection, some sort of pain,
some sort of wound, some sort ofacceptance that we have to walk
through and forgive thoseindividuals.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And I would argue that anyone who encountered porn
at an early age is a survivorof childhood sexual abuse.
Porn vandalizes our sexualityfrom such a young age.
I think in many ways porn is anabuser Porn itself definitely
violates us.
Right, so we all have healingwork to do.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yes, Step one is just feeling like you're not alone
in this crazy world and likethere are people around you and
I know, Drew, you've created agreat community of people and
men who are trying to do thistogether.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yes, and together.
When we share our stories andbring our deepest shame into the
light, it loses its power andporn doesn't have to control us
anymore.
Ken, what is your favoritething about freedom from porn?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Oh man, my favorite thing is the incredible joy that
I have day in and day out.
When we talk about freedom,right, you're like, oh, I want
to be free from this thing.
I had a great.
I had a guest on my podcastthat he put it really well.
He said, ken, when I was stuckin porn, what I felt like I was
(30:47):
always living a double life, Iwas hiding things and I always
had to set up plans to make surethat I was never getting caught
.
And he's like, now that I'mfree, he's like I could just be
myself.
I don't have to hide, there'snot the stressor of it.
He's like I could just be fullypresent.
(31:10):
And for me, that fully presentmeant that I am full of a lot of
joy.
You know, when I got rid of allthe bitterness and I found my
identity and I started walkingmy purpose, man, I'm really
excited, I'm really joyful.
Drew, if you would have met mewhen I was 16, I was very angry.
I mean, there was a lot Like myface always looked like I
wanted to stab someone.
But I was like 16 and weighed100 pounds.
I was like a little chihuahua,all right, like I wasn't killing
(31:31):
anybody or hurting anything.
Now, when people meet me, it'slike I'm always laughing, I'm
always happy, I'm full of joy.
Why?
Because, like man, I know whatGod has done for me and it's
just like I want to share thatwith everybody.
And my kids don't see an angrydad, they see a joyful dad and
that's what I love.
They're like oh, my dad's,because that's what I wanted.
(31:52):
So when you talk about what isthe freedom man?
Just full of joy, fully seeingwho God is being in his presence
.
Psalm 1611 says in his presencethere's fullness of joy.
It's not a feeling.
I know because it says it inHebrews where I could just enter
the throne room of grace andthat's where I'm at.
It's just a place where I'mconfident in who I am as a son.
I'm confident in who I am as ason.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I'm confident in who God has made me to be that I
could come to him anytime and Icould share that with others.
Praise God, ken.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story and for hosting your
podcast.
You guys can find it theShameless Podcast.
Where can people go to hearmore from you?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, so I actually have a website called
scripturesblog, right, that'swhere they can find, uh, the
shameless podcast.
And then also, I'm on allsocial media platforms.
You just go to kenfrede onInstagram or or Facebook or
LinkedIn.
I'm on all major social mediaplatforms.
Would love to hang out with youguys again.
That's kenfredere F-R-E-I-R-E.
It's a tongue twister.
Drew killed it.
The first time he said it, Iwas like, wow, that was
(33:05):
impressive.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, it shows you that I grew up in Puerto Rico
and Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, no, I mean bro, seriously, like anytime people
I tell them my last name,they're like and you were just
like.
Oh, I'm like dang, bro, that'swhat I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You got me really excited.
Well, your joy is contagious.
So guys go down to the links inthe show notes If you want to
connect with Ken and alwaysremember you are God's beloved
son in you, he is well pleased.
Let me say that again A fewmore more times just because of
this interview.
Let it sink in you are God'sbeloved son In you.
(33:50):
He is well-pleased.
You are God's beloved son Inyou.
He is well-placed.
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