June 2, 2025 • 43 mins
What is breathwork and how can it help you outgrow porn? Burke Atkerson masterfully explains the value of breathwork by drawing from Christian spirituality, neuroscience, and powerful personal experiences. If you stay until the end, you'll learn an extremely effective breathing technique called the physiological sigh. I loved this episode and I know you will, too.
Burke Atkerson is the founder of Fire Nights and Men Fully Alive. He is an author, coach, and breathwork instructor—as well as a recovering addict, a failed missionary, and an undeserving husband and a grateful father of six.
Buy Burke's book, Fire Nights: Forging Brotherhood That Heals.
Learn more and connect with Burke at menfullyalive.com.
Register now for the Husband Material Retreat at https://husbandmaterial.com/retreat!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Hey man, thank you forlistening to part two of my
(00:22):
interview with Burke Atkerson,who is a close friend, an
amazing man and the founder ofFire Nights.
Burke is also an experiencedbreathwork facilitator and in
this episode, you are going tolearn what breathwork is, both
from a spiritual perspective anda scientific perspective,
seeing how valuable it is, andBurke is actually going to lead
us in one exercise that anyonecan do that can really help us.
(00:46):
If you are pursuing freedomfrom porn and addiction, this is
a wonderful episode for you.
I'm so excited Burke willactually be joining us in
September at the HusbandMaterial Retreat.
Enjoy the episode.
Welcome back, burke.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you, brother.
I'm stoked to get this timewith you, brother.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Thanks, burke.
It's always great to be withyou.
I'm so excited about today'stopic how breathwork can help
men outgrow porn.
Why are you passionate aboutthis?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, I'll give you a little bit of my story.
Breathwork returns me to mybody and that is where the
presence of God is.
I cannot be present to God.
I can't know his presence if Ican't be present.
Step one to returning to thepresent is returning to the
breath.
Presence is always embodied.
Inevitably, Breath is the besttool we have to get there.
(01:39):
That is the whole idea of whybreath work matters.
My entire spirituality,physical health and emotional
health depend on it.
However, my backstory is I dohave ADHD and I was diagnosed as
an adult just a little over ayear ago and I've been doing
(01:59):
work for eight years.
So my ADHD does not look likethat hyperactive kid that's just
jumping off the walls, but itdid look like a restless little
boy that was always fidgetingand my brain was always on
hyperdrive.
My favorite description of ADHDis a Ferrari with bad brakes a
(02:29):
Ferrari with bad brakes.
So that was my experience.
So, because I was sharp andbecause I never had trouble with
grades, I never got a diagnosisand people didn't even suspect
it.
But then there were all theseother incongruencies in my life
where things didn't line up andI was constantly being
criticized and corrected as aboy doing things I didn't know
were wrong, or crossing lines Ididn't know were there because
(02:49):
of my neurodiversity.
The other thing is I'm anEnneagram seven.
What that means is I'm in thebrain triad, the mind triad, and
you know how people talk aboutthe biggest distance is the 18
inches between a man's head anda man's heart.
Yes, Well, for me it's actuallythe distance between my head
(03:11):
and my body.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And one of the easiest, most efficient ways to
connect with your body isthrough your lungs.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Let me give you a little bit of backstory.
So in our last podcast I talkedabout when shit hit the fan
eight years ago and I crossedsome lines and we moved back to
the States.
One of the first things we didis the navigators paid for us to
go do a two-week intensive withMichael Cusick, which is like
10 grand.
He's one of the best in theworld on this topic.
(03:42):
We did a two-week intensive, meand my wife together, and at
the end of it, the last day, hegave me two hours of feedback
everything that's wrong in mylife that needs to be fixed and
then he gave our marriage twohours of feedback and from this
feedback we were able to map outthe rest of our healing journey
(04:03):
that we're going to focus onover the next few years.
So he really just gave us a mapin that feedback.
And then he said Burke, let metell you one thing.
Record this separately.
He said forget everything I'vesaid to you about all the stuff
that you need to work on and allthe stuff that your marriage
needs to work on.
He said let me tell you onething and I'll just simplify it
(04:25):
for you.
He said if you learn to be aman who's okay with silence and
stillness and returning to hisbreath.
You will be a different man injust a year from now.
So I made that the core of mywork moving forward, my inner
(04:47):
world work.
So, as we talked about in thelast podcast, I found a lot of
healing and relationship withother men from fire nights and
similar stuff.
I found a lot of healing andtrauma work and talk therapy and
shame work was fundamental, butthis deep work is really
(05:07):
spiritual formation stuff.
One of the other things he toldme is he's like Burke, you're a
navigator, you have half theBible memorized.
He's like you know it betterthan almost anyone I know and
what you need now is toexperience what it says in
scripture instead of learning it.
And he challenged me to putdown my Bible for a year and
(05:28):
just experience it instead, andso I made it all my work.
So, instead of doing quiettimes with a Bible and a journal
in front of me, I did quiettimes with my breath and with
the father in front of me, andso I went on a journey.
After that year I was like I'mgoing to my first thing back in
scripture.
I'm going to do a word study.
I'm going to find out what doesscripture say about breath.
(05:52):
I started diving into it andguess how many times breath is
mentioned throughout scripture.
A lot, take a guess.
Take a stab at it 75.
Okay, that's really good.
It shows up 365 verses in theOld Testament and then 365
(06:12):
verses in the New Testament.
It totals because some versessay it a little bit more than
once it totals to about 380 inthe Old and 380 in the New, so
almost 800 times.
But what about all the versesyou have memorized around it?
Like you've studied scripture,where's breath coming up?
The problem is there's atranslation issue, and I learned
(06:37):
another language, so I know wecan't translate word for word.
We have to take thoughts, wehave to take concepts and put
them in the other language.
However, king James Version theinitial translation chose to
translate this word to spirit,when really it was breath, a lot
of times throughout scripture.
The other thing that'sinteresting and that's Hebrew,
(07:01):
aramaic and Greek.
So for 4,500 years they didn'thave a separate concept for the
word breath, and so there's aplay on words happening in their
language.
There's a congruence that wedon't see.
When we hear the word spirit,we think of this ethereal thing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
We think disembodied, we think that's something other
than physical, whereas for them, when they hear, be filled with
the Spirit hovered across thewaters, it's literally the
(07:48):
exhale of God went across thewaters, gives me chills.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
You almost think of a sigh, like he's looking and
it's without form and it's voidand he's like yeah, I don't know
, but that's the word picture.
And then over and overthroughout scripture yeah, I
don't know, but that's the wordpicture.
And then over and overthroughout scripture.
So then he breathes his breathof life into Adam and then into
Eve, breathes life into them.
(08:14):
That's what was differentbetween us and everything else
he created.
He didn't breathe life intolight, but he breathed it into
us.
The word in New Testament isinteresting for spirit.
Every time it mentions the wordspirit, it's talking about
breath also.
At the same time, it's talkingabout not one or the other, but
(08:34):
both.
And that includes mindset, thatincludes posture or attitude,
it includes unclean spirits andclean spirits and includes the
Holy Spirit.
And it's not capitalized in theOld Testament.
It just says the Spirit of God,just the breath of God.
But it's the word pneuma, whichis where we get words like
pneumonia, the lungs.
(08:59):
So in both cases, hebrew andGreek spirituality was always
embodied.
That's profound.
Most of the time you can't seebreath unless it's cold enough
outside.
So there is this etherealelement to it, but it's also
this thing that we absolutelyneed to thrive and to survive
(09:21):
and to live in this world.
We can't live without oxygen.
What if that is the metaphor?
We can't even be alive withoutthe spirit.
Like they are so deeplyinterconnected the two, and it
is spirit and body.
When Jesus was resurrected,where was his body?
It was on him, and DallasWillard pointed this out to us
(09:45):
dumb evangelicals.
We thought the soul does notinclude the flesh.
Surely that's evil, surelythat's part of this fallen world
.
But the body is part of thesoul.
Body and spirit were alwayscombined.
Our spirituality is fullyembodied.
(10:05):
So, anyways, this, this wholeword study, just changed my life
.
That's where the light justturned on and I'm like, oh, it's
not this secular, eastern newworld thing of paying attention,
it's this thing that we see allthroughout scripture of our
spirituality and all thoseverses that say be alert, pay
attention, wake up.
All of that has to do withembodiment, being conscious,
(10:27):
being present, being alive.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So learning how to breathe and relearning breath is
deeply Christian, it's deeplyscriptural.
What is breathwork?
All about.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh my gosh.
So breathwork is about presenceand awareness.
One of those verses, proverbs20, verse 27,.
Do you know it?
So the human breath is the lampthat the Lord uses to show us
the depths of our heart.
And that's I slightlyparaphrased the second half of
that it's what God uses to helpus come into awareness of what's
(11:03):
going on in our inner world.
God uses to help us come intoawareness of what's going on in
our inner world.
So breath and breathwork isabout returning to the present.
It's about returning to thebody.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Now, when we say breathwork, there are some
different approaches out there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So what would you describe as your approach?
Great question Breathwork.
(11:50):
Is this really abstract idea?
And there actually are likedozens of kind of breathworks
and there's even these oldpractices that go back over 1000
years and, luckily, scientistshave been paying attention to it
.
So we have more and more andmore research coming out showing
the effects of different kindsof breathwork.
But for me, when I say breathwork, I mean just paying
attention to the breath.
So I engage in breath work,probably dozens, if not close to
100 times a day.
I have a certain kind of breathwork, a breath that I do,
called the physiological sigh.
I do it maybe 15 times a day,so it's something that I'm
constantly engaging in, and alsowith breath being connected
(12:13):
with our spirituality.
There's a lot that Catholics andearly Christians understood
about prayer that we don'tunderstand, and so they were
okay with silence being a formof prayer.
They're okay with stillnessbeing a form of prayer, whereas
(12:34):
us evangelicals we want toproduce something, especially
Western and American and modern.
If we're not saying somethingand speaking it, then it's not
prayer.
And then saying in Jesus' name,amen, well then we're not
praying, right.
So we have all these structuresput around it, but then we see
in scripture these phrases likepray, always pray, without
ceasing.
(12:55):
Part of me, returning to mybreath and doing some breath
work throughout the day, is asort of returning to my spirit,
returning to my father like theprodigal son.
And so I've got these anxietiesand then I return my attention
to the breath and my eyes to thefather and it ends up being
this deep, rich spiritualitythat's connected and present.
(13:16):
That's so much more than justbreathing and paying attention
to my breath.
But when I say breath work,it's that simple just paying
attention to what's happeningright here.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
We've talked about the spiritual significance of
that.
How does it work in terms ofbrain science?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
The biggest thing is it alters our autonomic nervous
system state.
So when you feel anxiety,dysregulation, when you feel
anger in your body, when youfeel tension, stress let's say
you get in a conflict with acoworker or you have to tell
(13:54):
somebody no, and maybe thattriggers you and you're just
like shaking.
Or sexual arousal.
Sexual arousal is verydysregulating sometimes, and a
lot of us, a lot of oursexuality, has been very
disassociated, mind separatefrom the body, and what that is?
It's a dysregulated state ofthe nervous system, and so
(14:17):
breath is the most powerful toolwe have as humans to
re-regulate the nervous system.
Part of it is our brain, but ithas to be embodied.
So you could ask questions, andI'll do this with clients.
If they get dysregulated, I'llask them like, hey, look around
the room, find five things thatare blue, find four things that
(14:37):
are red, like that's distractingtheir mind and helping them
return and helping them regulatea little bit.
But if I could get them intheir body and say, hey, try
this form of breath with me.
If I could get them in theirbody and say, hey, try this form
of breath with me, it's soquick, it's so fast, and it'll
help them get down to an evenmore regulated state rather than
it's not like you'redysregulated, you're regulated,
(14:59):
it's a whole continuum.
So on my stress scale that I usepersonally, so zero to 10, 10
is a panic attack.
Zero is laying on a hammock onvacation with a margarita in my
hand, fully at rest is zero IfI'm at a five or higher, I'm
already in a dysregulated state.
I check in on this multipletimes a day.
(15:20):
If I'm at a seven or eight, Iwant to do whatever it takes to
drop my stress level down to afour below a five.
Takes to drop my stress leveldown to a four below a five, and
my goal is really to get tozero once a day.
Really, we thrive at zero.
We're designed to live at zeroand I don't mean on vacation,
(15:41):
but I do mean stress-free and sowe have to have some stress in
our life to get things done.
Cortisol is the system that, orthe neurotransmitter that's
activated in our system when weexperience stress.
Cortisol wakes us up in themorning.
Cortisol helps our eyes focuson when we're reading or moving
from one object to another.
Cortisol is used in severaldifferent systems in our body,
(16:05):
but when there's too muchcortisol in our system, that's
where we start to go up thatscale of dysregulation and it's
poison.
Too much is poison.
So when I was burned out, itall came from me being at about
a seven on average for years andaccumulated in my system to
burnout and failure to makequality decisions.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And failure to make quality decisions and Burke,
even before we recorded theseepisodes.
Today, you took me through abreathwork exercise and it was
so regulating.
And it was not only thebreathing but combining that
with awareness of the presenceof God.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
The Lord is here.
We love to use that phrase,that this is God's temple.
When we're trying to shamesomebody or body shame them,
you're overeating, or you'relike how dare you masturbate?
That's God's temple.
And I'm not saying that's howwe engage in that conversation,
but that's how we've experiencedthat topic a lot.
(17:09):
But what if this is just aplace God loves to be?
What if he loves to dwellinside of your body, drew?
What if he just delights inbeing so present with you that
he feels your heartbeat, that hecould tell when your hands are
(17:32):
shaky, that when you're taking ahot shower, he could feel the
drips of water dripping downyour skin?
He's that present to you.
And so when we learn to bepresent to us, we learn to be
present to him like he's presentto us.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Amen, hallelujah.
That is so good.
So what a valuable practice forus, really for any person yet,
especially for men who want morefreedom from pornography.
(18:10):
How can breathwork help?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Another thing the breath does, or returning to the
breath and even shifting theway we're breathing.
One of the things it does is itsoothes us, it comforts us
physiologically from the braindown.
It's called metacognition.
When we're paying attention towhat we're thinking about and
(18:34):
we're paying attention to whatwe're experiencing, that part of
our prefrontal cortex begins tosecrete something from
neurotransmitters calledserotonin that helps soothe the
body.
Starting from here, helping ussoothe and regulate so that's
part of the regulation processis a prefrontal cortex, you know
(18:54):
, lighting back up the way it'ssupposed to Cause.
When we get dysregulated withwith things, parts of the
prefrontal cortex don't workvery well anymore and we rely on
the rest of the brain, which is80% of the brain, is
subconscious and limbic systemand all the other called the
hypnotic states.
(19:15):
All of those things arehappening at the subconscious of
the brain and so when we'repaying attention to our breath,
breathing happens from thesubconscious.
You don't have to tell yourselfto think from the prefrontal
cortex, it's happening back here.
So when we step into breathingand paying attention to our
breath, all of a sudden we'restepping into the subconscious
world, we're stepping into therest of what's going on in our
(19:37):
mind and what I would moredescribe as our heart, or
overeating, or ice cream, or sexor orgasm.
Most of the time, what we'relonging for physiologically is
comfort.
This uncomfortable thinghappened, and so I want to find
(20:01):
comfort, and you could eventhink about sexual trauma
triggers.
You might get triggered bysomething, and that's so
uncomfortable and unsafe.
The limbic system has twoquestions Am I loved?
Am I safe?
The prefrontal cortex is askingcan I learn, can I solve
problems?
But the whole subconscious sideis am I safe?
(20:24):
When we feel discomfort, wedon't feel safe anymore.
So safety and comfort are deeplyrelated in the brain.
So when we want to return tothe present and we pay attention
to our body, what we're doingis we're lowering our stress
levels by literallyphysiologically comforting
(20:46):
ourselves, and so one of theamazing things about that is
when you're present, you canexperience pain better.
We are escape artists asaddicts, so we want to run from
our pain, and instead of runningto presence, we want to run
from the presence, becausethat's where pain is at, and so
we go to addiction.
We go to these things thatcomfort us.
(21:07):
But what's fascinating is, ifwe really ran to presence, then
we could learn how to face painhead on and the pain is less
painful.
So then we talk about thingslike resilience and grit.
All these things are comingfrom breath.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Man, that is so true.
I wish that wasn't true,because I have a part of me that
just wants to escape.
Yes, but you're right, when weface what we're actually feeling
, it's not as intense as we areafraid it might be.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, can I give an illustration of that Please?
There was this girl who startedtexting me these inappropriate
things and it instantly, likethat was part of my arousal
template, that was part of mylike.
I just went into a head spin afew years ago and I could not
think straight.
I called up friends.
I was like, hey, man, help meregulate.
(22:03):
I'm dysregulated and it's beenyou know, four hours.
I just can't think straight, Ican't put my head on straight.
I want to respond to this girland, just like you know, x, y, z
, go down that rabbit trail.
And so I I told my wife I waslike, hey, I'm not in a good
place, I just need to go campingfor 24 hours.
I just need to get out of town,turn my phone off and connect
(22:26):
with my body and connect withthe father.
So I went camping an hour awaybut the whole 24 hours I was out
there.
It was windy, like not a littlebit of wind, like if it was
raining it would be rainingsideways, like it was strong,
harsh, cold wind that makes yourskin tickle because they're
(22:47):
like tingle, because it's sopiercing, and I was so pissed.
So the next day I thought,surely when I wake up, it'll be
gone.
When I was trying to set up myshelter, I pulled out my 12 foot
tarp and it was fullyhorizontal from the wind while
I'm trying to set it up.
It was such a pain in the ass.
The next day I built a littlefire and sat by it trying to
(23:07):
stay warm.
I lit a little cigar, I have myjournal out, I'm trying to sit
with father and I'm so angry,I'm venting with him, I'm like
God, I'm so dysregulated and Ijust want to be present with you
and I just want to be presentin my body and I can't because
that stupid wind.
I decided, okay, I'm just goingto do a 20 minute mindfulness
sit and just pay attention to mybreath and just return to my
(23:28):
body.
Actually, it was a centeringprayer that I was just returning
to the presence of the father.
You know a thousand times overthose 20 minutes.
One of the things that happenswith mindfulness is radical
acceptance for ourselves, and sowe encountered these things in
our body and we're just like,okay, it's okay, I'm not going
to judge that, I'm just going toaccept it as it is and as I did
(23:53):
, that this mindfulness sit isfully embodied, fully spiritual
and fully physical, fully mental.
It's engaging all the spacesexcept relational, which thank
God nobody was there, becausethen I wouldn't be able to go
there.
Probably the wind bugged methrough half of that sit and it
was so distracting and I wasangry and part of the thing I
was acknowledging is just howcold it was on my face and the
(24:14):
sun was barely shining.
And right after thatmindfulness sit, the wind
continued and actually the windcontinued the rest of the time I
was there, but it didn't bug meanymore.
I was able to embrace it andaccept it as it is.
I was able to be present tothat pain and no longer was it a
(24:39):
burden in my life to carry oravoid, because I'd embraced it,
I'd accepted it, I was presentto it.
What if we could encounter allof our pains and struggles in
life like that?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
What if we could encounter our sexual temptations
like that?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Just kind of accept them and dig deeper, say man, I
get really curious.
I wonder what's below that.
Yeah, exactly, instead of oh, Ishouldn't do that, I should
look away.
I wonder what's deeper thanthat.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Breathwork is a way that we can befriend what's
happening instead of battlingwhat's happening.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh, beautiful, beautifully said.
You know just a brief thoughtabout that.
Our sexuality is fully embodiedand we want to call it flesh
and fully disown it.
Right, like we pray to God,just like take my sexuality
because I can't stop looking atporn.
You know how many times did youpray that as a teenage boy?
Like just take this away fromme, god, I'm so angry at it.
(25:39):
It causes so much misery andshame, makes me feel weak.
Rem me, god.
I'm so angry at it.
It causes so much misery andshame, makes me feel weak, makes
me, reminds me that I'm notgood enough.
The thing is, our sexuality isso good and it's a gift from God
and it's a deeply embodiedexperience, and so the more we
could learn how to be present byreturning to the breath, the
better and the richer oursexuality is.
(26:00):
By returning to the breath, thebetter and the richer our
sexuality is.
So, all of a sudden, we may beengaging with our wife in a way
that's not detached andsexualized and objectified, and
what's that word?
Disassociated?
It's present and connected andbeautiful.
That is when sex gets good, notwhen you learn some technique.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Amen.
And sometimes I find it helpfulto breathe different ways, For
example, to breathe more fullyand quickly and deeply versus
the long, slow, deep bellybreathing.
Earlier you were walking methrough multiple different kinds
of breaths.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
There are so many different ways of breathing and
the most important thing is justpaying attention, as we said.
But what's really interestingis that breathing can be a
mirror of the soul or what'shappening at a deeper level.
So if you really start overyears paying attention to your
breath, you'll realize that inevery situation where you feel a
(27:03):
different way, you're actuallybreathing a different way.
I have a friend who's aphenomenal actor from Australia
and he's done these movies withAntonio Banderas and all these
big names, and last time I wasin LA I was hanging out with him
and he said man, some of themost incredible acting or the
way I've been getting so muchbetter as an actor lately, is
(27:25):
realizing that the character isfound in the breath.
So even like his ability to tapinto the emotional state of
another character is determinedby breath, and that's true of
ourselves too.
So Navy SEALs do it to regulatethemselves and Marines in a
negotiation situation wherethings are intense, they can
(27:46):
stay in a regulated statebecause they know what regulated
feels like and they've done thework practicing that and then,
when things get really intenseand stressful, they could return
to that regulated state throughtheir breath.
On the other hand.
Let's say somebody is a reallygood preacher, which I'm not.
I don't like public speaking,but they can begin to pay
(28:08):
attention to how their favoritespeakers breathe when they take
breaths in.
I have some friends who aresingers that they take the same
approach, Like oh, if I want tosing that style, then that's the
way I have to breathe, whenit's held in the body, how deep,
how shallow, if it's chest, ifit's belly, if it's your back,
(28:30):
if it's you know, if you're kindof just breathing in your mouth
.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So there's a whole world to explore within
breathwork for our purposes.
Burke, would you be willing tolead us in a breathwork exercise
?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Absolutely.
Right now I'm not going to do aWim Hof style approach.
It will drop your anxiety leveland stress level significantly
more than any other tool we havein our belt as breathwork
instructors.
It's very intense and it'llbring you, let's say, you're at
a six.
It'll bring you down to a zeroor one within 10 minutes.
(29:05):
It's that powerful.
I'm not going to do that rightnow.
I'll teach you guys that duringthe sessions over the retreat.
What I'll teach you right now issomething I use multiple times
a day.
It's called the physiologicalsigh.
Have you heard of that?
Only from you?
The physiological sigh has alot of research around it and it
will within one minute.
(29:26):
Let's say my stress levels at asix.
Within one minute of breathinglike this, it'll bring me down
to a five and all of a sudden,like everything's starting a
fire and all cylinders, againI'm able to think clearly in one
minute.
So if I go on a walk, let's sayI'm at a six, I could go on a
walk.
It might take 20 minutes todrop me down to a five right,
(29:48):
and going on a walk is aphenomenal form of stress
reduction.
This will get you there in oneor two breaths.
It'll drop you down.
So what it is, you max out yourlungs with oxygen and then
you're going to take a sharpinhale.
So you're going to max out yourlungs and then you're just
going to like, pop out thoseremaining little like spaces in
(30:11):
your lungs which, by the way, doyou know how much like if you
were able to spread out yourlungs?
You know how much surface areathere is.
No Tennis court.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Really.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So if you breathe all the way in, you're maxing out
probably like 90 to 95% of yourintake capacity, and then you go
and you just do a sharp intakeand you're just popping out
those extra little areas thatyou never use.
So with this method you're justgoing to breathe in real deep
and then do a sharp intake tomax it out, and then you can
(30:48):
hold your breath for about fourseconds if you want, or you
could instantly start breathingout.
But the key is long exhales.
So you can always slow yourrate by doing long exhales.
Your heart rate.
You could slow your breathing.
By long exhales you could loweryour anxiety level.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And when you say a long exhale, you mean pursing my
lips so that I'm breathing outlike I'm breathing through a
straw.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
That is a great way to do it, but it's not the only.
It doesn't matter how youbreathe out, but if you have a
little restriction right herewith your mouth, you're going to
be able to drag out the breathlonger than.
If you do this and you're likebreathing out hot air or like
from the back of your throat,there's no restriction, and so
(31:37):
breathing out through a straw itcreates a little restriction so
you could slow your breath evenmore.
It also gives you something topay attention to and somewhere
to focus your attention.
But anytime you have a longinhale instead of an exhale,
it's going to be raising yourheart rate.
Anytime you do a long exhale,it's going to be lowering your
(31:58):
heart rate.
So you're literally changingyour physiology, you're changing
your state of your nervoussystem by how you breathe.
So this one is like max it outand then just one more, and then
you go real slow and you getall the air out completely.
(32:18):
So you should feel your stomachand your chest fill up and then
, when you're exhaling, youshould feel your shoulders drop.
So you're squeezing out everylast bit of oxygen that's in
your lungs and just from one ofthose you'll drop and do another
one, you'll drop your stresseven more.
Do it like a whole two minutesand all of a sudden you're just
(32:41):
going to be present, awake, notstressed, and there's so much
research behind this.
There's not a more effectivetool for quick relief, and it is
soothing.
So if you're super stimulatedand dysregulated from the
trigger, just do some breaths.
So and then, of course, call afriend.
(33:02):
But it may be hard to call afriend if you're still
dysregulated.
So get regulated, pick up thephone.
Beautiful.
What if I just walk theaudience through it right now,
drew?
That would be awesome.
So it's so simple, wim Hof,breath work and there's certain
kinds of breath work that youhave to be on a yoga pad, you
have to be laying down, you haveto be in a safe place.
(33:23):
Physiological side is somethingyou could do anywhere.
If you're driving right now, ifyou're in traffic listening to
this, you know if you'redysregulated, it doesn't matter
where you're at right now.
It helps if you're not doingphysical activity like that.
But you can do it when you'redoing physical activity let's
say you're on a walk go aheadand stop and take a deep breath,
(33:44):
just kind of pay attention tohow it feels in your body.
So you're paying, you'rebringing your attention back to
your breath.
If you're in a place where youcan close your eyes, if you're
driving, don't close your eyes.
If you're in a place wherethat's safe, go ahead and close
your eyes.
If you're in a place wherethat's safe, go ahead and close
your eyes.
And we're just going to do thisfor one minute.
(34:04):
So breathe out all the air.
Now you're ready, take a deepinhale, full lungs, and then
peak your lungs and then slowlyexhale, make sure all that air
(34:31):
is out and then all the way backin again.
Big deep breath and then sharpinhale and lastly, slow exhale
all the way and then get all theair out of your lungs, let your
(34:54):
shoulders drop, feel your headdrop, wiggle your head a little
bit if you want, if that's safe,and return your attention to
your breath again.
You don't have to change yourbreath now.
Just breathe normally.
Just breathe normally.
(35:20):
You know, it always helps tobreathe in through your nose and
breathe out through your mouth,but it really doesn't matter
how you breathe.
What matters is that you'repaying attention.
You know what's crazy aboutthis one, drew.
Kids and babies do it whenthey're crying and they're
regulating their systems fromwhen they, you know, after they
stop crying, they're like all ofa sudden they're like that's it
.
You remember that?
(35:40):
That's the physiological side.
It's so deeply ingrained in ourbody we're going and then that
peak, we're reminding our bodiesof what it's like to calm down
from crying.
Returning to the present, itfeels so good, it's soothing.
We don't get the same cocktailsof hormones as orgasm, so it's
(36:06):
not as addicting and it'stempting to go get that whole
cocktail right, but it issoothing neurologically and
physiologically.
You'll notice I'm smoking acigar.
If you're on the podcast, Idon't know if you noticed, but
I'm not telling you to smoke acigar, and I'm not a proponent
in the sense of like, I'm not anadvocate.
(36:27):
I like them for the flavors andthe sensory experience, and it
brings me back into my body.
The nicotine stimulates my mindwith ADHD better than
medications do.
However, it's one of thosethings that brings me back into
my breath and it slows thingsdown.
You take about one puff a minute, and what I'll do a lot of
times, I'll just show you.
(36:47):
I'll put smoke in my mouth.
Don't do this because you don'tsmoke, drew, but it is
interesting because it's still aform of returning to the breath
.
I'll put smoke in my mouth.
Don't do this because you don'tsmoke Drew, but it is
interesting because it's still aform of returning to the breath
.
I'll put smoke in my mouth andthen I'll breathe out my nose,
because you're not putting smokein your lungs with a cigar.
You never want to do that.
That's so bad.
It's so bad for your health.
But I'll breathe in.
(37:09):
I'll fill up my mouth withsmoke.
I'll breathe out all the airfrom my nose and then I'll
slowly.
I'm holding my breath, I'mslowly letting the smoke out of
my mouth and it ends up takinglike over a minute to do that
whole process.
And it's one of those thingsthat's like I call it, breath
work of the cigar and it is socalming.
(37:33):
You'll notice the last podcastpodcast I had more anxiety in my
body and I was speaking quicker.
I couldn't think as straightand now I've slowed down and the
cigar has been a tool to helpme slow down again.
I don't I'm not pushing cigars,I'm just saying how I've used
them absolutely this stuff is socool.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm really excited for the beauty of breathwork and
also being able to do it inperson at the Husband Material
Retreat in September.
Among the different breakoutsessions, one of them will be
about breathwork and Burke.
You mentioned Wim Hof and he'sfamous for combining breathwork
(38:13):
and cold exposure.
How do those two things gotogether?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Great question and I want to add to that question for
you.
This is kind of how I'll answerit.
How do they help with sexaddiction or porn addiction or
compulsion, whatever word youwant to use.
Breath is about presence, right, as we talked about, cold is
about presence during discomfort.
The way we experience coldphysiologically is the same way
(38:42):
we experience stress.
Well, there's several benefits.
So, first of all, when you'reworking away from addiction and
you're working on sobriety andworking towards wholeness, and
you're working on sobriety andworking towards wholeness,
there's certain things you coulddo that will maximize
neuroplasticity and it'llaccelerate your rate of change
(39:02):
where you're creating new neuralpathways.
One of them is cold exposure.
So another one is exercise.
If you're working on sobriety,go exercise.
Another one is drinking a lotof water.
If you're working on sobriety,trying to get some traction,
drinking a lot of water.
If you're working on sobriety,trying to get some traction, set
a goal of 60 days to drink agallon of water a day.
And this is part of the programI have it's called the Wolfpack
(39:22):
Method, where you're using allthese things to accelerate
change in neuroplasticity andyou're stimulating
neuroplasticity so changehappens faster.
So you're letting the oldneural pathways that you've
taken a thousand times to kindof cover up and you're creating
new neural pathways, and thisjust accelerates the whole
(39:43):
process.
Cold exposure is one of those.
The other thing is it's teachingus discipline, and I'm the
least consistent person you'veever met in your life, like my
motto is consistentlyinconsistent.
So when I say discipline, Idon't mean consistency.
What I mean is a posture ofdiscipline, like what I think
(40:05):
scripture talks about disciplinebe strong and courageous.
Well, how's that apply?
Well, when we experience painsand discomforts, our tendency is
escapism, our tendency isdysregulation or disassociation
or addiction, and all of this isnot embodied, all of this is
(40:25):
not present and all of it is arunning away from pain.
Discipline is a posture wherewe're able to face pain, like
when I did the 20 minutesmindfulness sit and embraced the
wind, the cold wind.
It didn't affect me anymore.
It's because I faced it insteadof facing away from it.
So discipline changes our wholeexperience of pain and
(40:48):
suffering and therefore, sincewe're able to embrace it and
it's not as painful and we'rebeing soothed in the process, we
don't have to run from itanymore.
So much of addiction is runningfrom it Now we can face it.
I would recommend, for 21 days,to take cold showers.
So you're aiming for sobriety,but the other thing you're going
to do is you can take a hotshower and then turn it cold for
(41:10):
30 seconds and then the nextweek turn it cold for a minute
and third week turn it cold fora minute and third week turn it
cold for a minute and a half.
If, if you really want to havefun, like do a nice bath, but
you it's not gonna be realisticto do a nice bath every day.
They say 11 minutes a week isyour maximum benefits and you
don't want to hurt yourself.
Don't force yourself to dosomething more extreme if you're
(41:32):
uncomfortable too much.
Like don't hurt yourself,please.
However, cold exposure doesspeed up neuroplasticity and it
teaches us to face pain.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And breathwork is a huge part of being able to
tolerate it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
This morning I did a 10-minute breathwork session and
then I got in the bath for fourminutes in the cold bath and it
was only like 48 degrees.
But after 20 seconds it didn'teven feel cold anymore.
I was fully relaxed back, likeI was sitting in a hot tub
because I was pairing it with mybreathing.
But if you don't pair it withbreathing then, yeah, it's going
(42:09):
to be a lot more painful.
A lot of people the moment theyexpect you get in the cold.
What do you do?
You hold your breath, you panic, your whole body tenses up.
But if you could do some deepbreaths, you're able to stay
(42:33):
present to it and it doesn'thurt as much.
And then you're rewiring yourbrain to be able to face
discomfort in life.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Brilliant, so I'm excited about the session where
we are going to teach you allhow to do breath work, as well
as the option of pairing it withcold exposure for those who are
so inclined.
Burke, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom and
experience with us.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Man.
I appreciate you so much, Drew,Thank you.
Thanks for this.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You're welcome.
So, guys, if you want to learnmore about Burke and connect
with him, go down to the linksin the show notes, and if you'd
like to join us at the HusbandMaterial Retreat to do some
breath work in September, wewould love to have you there.
You can check that out athusbandmaterialcom slash retreat
.
It's so beautiful.
May we all breathe and alwaysremember you are God's beloved
(43:23):
son and you, he is well pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Hey man, thank you forlistening to part two of my
(00:22):
interview with Burke Atkerson,who is a close friend, an
amazing man and the founder ofFire Nights.
Burke is also an experiencedbreathwork facilitator and in
this episode, you are going tolearn what breathwork is, both
from a spiritual perspective anda scientific perspective,
seeing how valuable it is, andBurke is actually going to lead
us in one exercise that anyonecan do that can really help us.
(00:46):
If you are pursuing freedomfrom porn and addiction, this is
a wonderful episode for you.
I'm so excited Burke willactually be joining us in
September at the HusbandMaterial Retreat.
Enjoy the episode.
Welcome back, burke.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you, brother.
I'm stoked to get this timewith you, brother.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Thanks, burke.
It's always great to be withyou.
I'm so excited about today'stopic how breathwork can help
men outgrow porn.
Why are you passionate aboutthis?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well, I'll give you a little bit of my story.
Breathwork returns me to mybody and that is where the
presence of God is.
I cannot be present to God.
I can't know his presence if Ican't be present.
Step one to returning to thepresent is returning to the
breath.
Presence is always embodied.
Inevitably, Breath is the besttool we have to get there.
(01:39):
That is the whole idea of whybreath work matters.
My entire spirituality,physical health and emotional
health depend on it.
However, my backstory is I dohave ADHD and I was diagnosed as
an adult just a little over ayear ago and I've been doing
(01:59):
work for eight years.
So my ADHD does not look likethat hyperactive kid that's just
jumping off the walls, but itdid look like a restless little
boy that was always fidgetingand my brain was always on
hyperdrive.
My favorite description of ADHDis a Ferrari with bad brakes a
(02:29):
Ferrari with bad brakes.
So that was my experience.
So, because I was sharp andbecause I never had trouble with
grades, I never got a diagnosisand people didn't even suspect
it.
But then there were all theseother incongruencies in my life
where things didn't line up andI was constantly being
criticized and corrected as aboy doing things I didn't know
were wrong, or crossing lines Ididn't know were there because
(02:49):
of my neurodiversity.
The other thing is I'm anEnneagram seven.
What that means is I'm in thebrain triad, the mind triad, and
you know how people talk aboutthe biggest distance is the 18
inches between a man's head anda man's heart.
Yes, Well, for me it's actuallythe distance between my head
(03:11):
and my body.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And one of the easiest, most efficient ways to
connect with your body isthrough your lungs.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Let me give you a little bit of backstory.
So in our last podcast I talkedabout when shit hit the fan
eight years ago and I crossedsome lines and we moved back to
the States.
One of the first things we didis the navigators paid for us to
go do a two-week intensive withMichael Cusick, which is like
10 grand.
He's one of the best in theworld on this topic.
(03:42):
We did a two-week intensive, meand my wife together, and at
the end of it, the last day, hegave me two hours of feedback
everything that's wrong in mylife that needs to be fixed and
then he gave our marriage twohours of feedback and from this
feedback we were able to map outthe rest of our healing journey
(04:03):
that we're going to focus onover the next few years.
So he really just gave us a mapin that feedback.
And then he said Burke, let metell you one thing.
Record this separately.
He said forget everything I'vesaid to you about all the stuff
that you need to work on and allthe stuff that your marriage
needs to work on.
He said let me tell you onething and I'll just simplify it
(04:25):
for you.
He said if you learn to be aman who's okay with silence and
stillness and returning to hisbreath.
You will be a different man injust a year from now.
So I made that the core of mywork moving forward, my inner
(04:47):
world work.
So, as we talked about in thelast podcast, I found a lot of
healing and relationship withother men from fire nights and
similar stuff.
I found a lot of healing andtrauma work and talk therapy and
shame work was fundamental, butthis deep work is really
(05:07):
spiritual formation stuff.
One of the other things he toldme is he's like Burke, you're a
navigator, you have half theBible memorized.
He's like you know it betterthan almost anyone I know and
what you need now is toexperience what it says in
scripture instead of learning it.
And he challenged me to putdown my Bible for a year and
(05:28):
just experience it instead, andso I made it all my work.
So, instead of doing quiettimes with a Bible and a journal
in front of me, I did quiettimes with my breath and with
the father in front of me, andso I went on a journey.
After that year I was like I'mgoing to my first thing back in
scripture.
I'm going to do a word study.
I'm going to find out what doesscripture say about breath.
(05:52):
I started diving into it andguess how many times breath is
mentioned throughout scripture.
A lot, take a guess.
Take a stab at it 75.
Okay, that's really good.
It shows up 365 verses in theOld Testament and then 365
(06:12):
verses in the New Testament.
It totals because some versessay it a little bit more than
once it totals to about 380 inthe Old and 380 in the New, so
almost 800 times.
But what about all the versesyou have memorized around it?
Like you've studied scripture,where's breath coming up?
The problem is there's atranslation issue, and I learned
(06:37):
another language, so I know wecan't translate word for word.
We have to take thoughts, wehave to take concepts and put
them in the other language.
However, king James Version theinitial translation chose to
translate this word to spirit,when really it was breath, a lot
of times throughout scripture.
The other thing that'sinteresting and that's Hebrew,
(07:01):
aramaic and Greek.
So for 4,500 years they didn'thave a separate concept for the
word breath, and so there's aplay on words happening in their
language.
There's a congruence that wedon't see.
When we hear the word spirit,we think of this ethereal thing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
We think disembodied, we think that's something other
than physical, whereas for them, when they hear, be filled with
the Spirit hovered across thewaters, it's literally the
(07:48):
exhale of God went across thewaters, gives me chills.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
You almost think of a sigh, like he's looking and
it's without form and it's voidand he's like yeah, I don't know
, but that's the word picture.
And then over and overthroughout scripture yeah, I
don't know, but that's the wordpicture.
And then over and overthroughout scripture.
So then he breathes his breathof life into Adam and then into
Eve, breathes life into them.
(08:14):
That's what was differentbetween us and everything else
he created.
He didn't breathe life intolight, but he breathed it into
us.
The word in New Testament isinteresting for spirit.
Every time it mentions the wordspirit, it's talking about
breath also.
At the same time, it's talkingabout not one or the other, but
(08:34):
both.
And that includes mindset, thatincludes posture or attitude,
it includes unclean spirits andclean spirits and includes the
Holy Spirit.
And it's not capitalized in theOld Testament.
It just says the Spirit of God,just the breath of God.
But it's the word pneuma, whichis where we get words like
pneumonia, the lungs.
(08:59):
So in both cases, hebrew andGreek spirituality was always
embodied.
That's profound.
Most of the time you can't seebreath unless it's cold enough
outside.
So there is this etherealelement to it, but it's also
this thing that we absolutelyneed to thrive and to survive
(09:21):
and to live in this world.
We can't live without oxygen.
What if that is the metaphor?
We can't even be alive withoutthe spirit.
Like they are so deeplyinterconnected the two, and it
is spirit and body.
When Jesus was resurrected,where was his body?
It was on him, and DallasWillard pointed this out to us
(09:45):
dumb evangelicals.
We thought the soul does notinclude the flesh.
Surely that's evil, surelythat's part of this fallen world
.
But the body is part of thesoul.
Body and spirit were alwayscombined.
Our spirituality is fullyembodied.
(10:05):
So, anyways, this, this wholeword study, just changed my life
.
That's where the light justturned on and I'm like, oh, it's
not this secular, eastern newworld thing of paying attention,
it's this thing that we see allthroughout scripture of our
spirituality and all thoseverses that say be alert, pay
attention, wake up.
All of that has to do withembodiment, being conscious,
(10:27):
being present, being alive.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So learning how to breathe and relearning breath is
deeply Christian, it's deeplyscriptural.
What is breathwork?
All about.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh my gosh.
So breathwork is about presenceand awareness.
One of those verses, proverbs20, verse 27,.
Do you know it?
So the human breath is the lampthat the Lord uses to show us
the depths of our heart.
And that's I slightlyparaphrased the second half of
that it's what God uses to helpus come into awareness of what's
(11:03):
going on in our inner world.
God uses to help us come intoawareness of what's going on in
our inner world.
So breath and breathwork isabout returning to the present.
It's about returning to thebody.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Now, when we say breathwork, there are some
different approaches out there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So what would you describe as your approach?
Great question Breathwork.
(11:50):
Is this really abstract idea?
And there actually are likedozens of kind of breathworks
and there's even these oldpractices that go back over 1000
years and, luckily, scientistshave been paying attention to it
.
So we have more and more andmore research coming out showing
the effects of different kindsof breathwork.
But for me, when I say breathwork, I mean just paying
attention to the breath.
So I engage in breath work,probably dozens, if not close to
100 times a day.
I have a certain kind of breathwork, a breath that I do,
called the physiological sigh.
I do it maybe 15 times a day,so it's something that I'm
constantly engaging in, and alsowith breath being connected
(12:13):
with our spirituality.
There's a lot that Catholics andearly Christians understood
about prayer that we don'tunderstand, and so they were
okay with silence being a formof prayer.
They're okay with stillnessbeing a form of prayer, whereas
(12:34):
us evangelicals we want toproduce something, especially
Western and American and modern.
If we're not saying somethingand speaking it, then it's not
prayer.
And then saying in Jesus' name,amen, well then we're not
praying, right.
So we have all these structuresput around it, but then we see
in scripture these phrases likepray, always pray, without
ceasing.
(12:55):
Part of me, returning to mybreath and doing some breath
work throughout the day, is asort of returning to my spirit,
returning to my father like theprodigal son.
And so I've got these anxietiesand then I return my attention
to the breath and my eyes to thefather and it ends up being
this deep, rich spiritualitythat's connected and present.
(13:16):
That's so much more than justbreathing and paying attention
to my breath.
But when I say breath work,it's that simple just paying
attention to what's happeningright here.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
We've talked about the spiritual significance of
that.
How does it work in terms ofbrain science?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
The biggest thing is it alters our autonomic nervous
system state.
So when you feel anxiety,dysregulation, when you feel
anger in your body, when youfeel tension, stress let's say
you get in a conflict with acoworker or you have to tell
(13:54):
somebody no, and maybe thattriggers you and you're just
like shaking.
Or sexual arousal.
Sexual arousal is verydysregulating sometimes, and a
lot of us, a lot of oursexuality, has been very
disassociated, mind separatefrom the body, and what that is?
It's a dysregulated state ofthe nervous system, and so
(14:17):
breath is the most powerful toolwe have as humans to
re-regulate the nervous system.
Part of it is our brain, but ithas to be embodied.
So you could ask questions, andI'll do this with clients.
If they get dysregulated, I'llask them like, hey, look around
the room, find five things thatare blue, find four things that
(14:37):
are red, like that's distractingtheir mind and helping them
return and helping them regulatea little bit.
But if I could get them intheir body and say, hey, try
this form of breath with me.
If I could get them in theirbody and say, hey, try this form
of breath with me, it's soquick, it's so fast, and it'll
help them get down to an evenmore regulated state rather than
it's not like you'redysregulated, you're regulated,
(14:59):
it's a whole continuum.
So on my stress scale that I usepersonally, so zero to 10, 10
is a panic attack.
Zero is laying on a hammock onvacation with a margarita in my
hand, fully at rest is zero IfI'm at a five or higher, I'm
already in a dysregulated state.
I check in on this multipletimes a day.
(15:20):
If I'm at a seven or eight, Iwant to do whatever it takes to
drop my stress level down to afour below a five.
Takes to drop my stress leveldown to a four below a five, and
my goal is really to get tozero once a day.
Really, we thrive at zero.
We're designed to live at zeroand I don't mean on vacation,
(15:41):
but I do mean stress-free and sowe have to have some stress in
our life to get things done.
Cortisol is the system that, orthe neurotransmitter that's
activated in our system when weexperience stress.
Cortisol wakes us up in themorning.
Cortisol helps our eyes focuson when we're reading or moving
from one object to another.
Cortisol is used in severaldifferent systems in our body,
(16:05):
but when there's too muchcortisol in our system, that's
where we start to go up thatscale of dysregulation and it's
poison.
Too much is poison.
So when I was burned out, itall came from me being at about
a seven on average for years andaccumulated in my system to
burnout and failure to makequality decisions.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And failure to make quality decisions and Burke,
even before we recorded theseepisodes.
Today, you took me through abreathwork exercise and it was
so regulating.
And it was not only thebreathing but combining that
with awareness of the presenceof God.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
The Lord is here.
We love to use that phrase,that this is God's temple.
When we're trying to shamesomebody or body shame them,
you're overeating, or you'relike how dare you masturbate?
That's God's temple.
And I'm not saying that's howwe engage in that conversation,
but that's how we've experiencedthat topic a lot.
(17:09):
But what if this is just aplace God loves to be?
What if he loves to dwellinside of your body, drew?
What if he just delights inbeing so present with you that
he feels your heartbeat, that hecould tell when your hands are
(17:32):
shaky, that when you're taking ahot shower, he could feel the
drips of water dripping downyour skin?
He's that present to you.
And so when we learn to bepresent to us, we learn to be
present to him like he's presentto us.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Amen, hallelujah.
That is so good.
So what a valuable practice forus, really for any person yet,
especially for men who want morefreedom from pornography.
(18:10):
How can breathwork help?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Another thing the breath does, or returning to the
breath and even shifting theway we're breathing.
One of the things it does is itsoothes us, it comforts us
physiologically from the braindown.
It's called metacognition.
When we're paying attention towhat we're thinking about and
(18:34):
we're paying attention to whatwe're experiencing, that part of
our prefrontal cortex begins tosecrete something from
neurotransmitters calledserotonin that helps soothe the
body.
Starting from here, helping ussoothe and regulate so that's
part of the regulation processis a prefrontal cortex, you know
(18:54):
, lighting back up the way it'ssupposed to Cause.
When we get dysregulated withwith things, parts of the
prefrontal cortex don't workvery well anymore and we rely on
the rest of the brain, which is80% of the brain, is
subconscious and limbic systemand all the other called the
hypnotic states.
(19:15):
All of those things arehappening at the subconscious of
the brain and so when we'repaying attention to our breath,
breathing happens from thesubconscious.
You don't have to tell yourselfto think from the prefrontal
cortex, it's happening back here.
So when we step into breathingand paying attention to our
breath, all of a sudden we'restepping into the subconscious
world, we're stepping into therest of what's going on in our
(19:37):
mind and what I would moredescribe as our heart, or
overeating, or ice cream, or sexor orgasm.
Most of the time, what we'relonging for physiologically is
comfort.
This uncomfortable thinghappened, and so I want to find
(20:01):
comfort, and you could eventhink about sexual trauma
triggers.
You might get triggered bysomething, and that's so
uncomfortable and unsafe.
The limbic system has twoquestions Am I loved?
Am I safe?
The prefrontal cortex is askingcan I learn, can I solve
problems?
But the whole subconscious sideis am I safe?
(20:24):
When we feel discomfort, wedon't feel safe anymore.
So safety and comfort are deeplyrelated in the brain.
So when we want to return tothe present and we pay attention
to our body, what we're doingis we're lowering our stress
levels by literallyphysiologically comforting
(20:46):
ourselves, and so one of theamazing things about that is
when you're present, you canexperience pain better.
We are escape artists asaddicts, so we want to run from
our pain, and instead of runningto presence, we want to run
from the presence, becausethat's where pain is at, and so
we go to addiction.
We go to these things thatcomfort us.
(21:07):
But what's fascinating is, ifwe really ran to presence, then
we could learn how to face painhead on and the pain is less
painful.
So then we talk about thingslike resilience and grit.
All these things are comingfrom breath.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Man, that is so true.
I wish that wasn't true,because I have a part of me that
just wants to escape.
Yes, but you're right, when weface what we're actually feeling
, it's not as intense as we areafraid it might be.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, can I give an illustration of that Please?
There was this girl who startedtexting me these inappropriate
things and it instantly, likethat was part of my arousal
template, that was part of mylike.
I just went into a head spin afew years ago and I could not
think straight.
I called up friends.
I was like, hey, man, help meregulate.
(22:03):
I'm dysregulated and it's beenyou know, four hours.
I just can't think straight, Ican't put my head on straight.
I want to respond to this girland, just like you know, x, y, z
, go down that rabbit trail.
And so I I told my wife I waslike, hey, I'm not in a good
place, I just need to go campingfor 24 hours.
I just need to get out of town,turn my phone off and connect
(22:26):
with my body and connect withthe father.
So I went camping an hour awaybut the whole 24 hours I was out
there.
It was windy, like not a littlebit of wind, like if it was
raining it would be rainingsideways, like it was strong,
harsh, cold wind that makes yourskin tickle because they're
(22:47):
like tingle, because it's sopiercing, and I was so pissed.
So the next day I thought,surely when I wake up, it'll be
gone.
When I was trying to set up myshelter, I pulled out my 12 foot
tarp and it was fullyhorizontal from the wind while
I'm trying to set it up.
It was such a pain in the ass.
The next day I built a littlefire and sat by it trying to
(23:07):
stay warm.
I lit a little cigar, I have myjournal out, I'm trying to sit
with father and I'm so angry,I'm venting with him, I'm like
God, I'm so dysregulated and Ijust want to be present with you
and I just want to be presentin my body and I can't because
that stupid wind.
I decided, okay, I'm just goingto do a 20 minute mindfulness
sit and just pay attention to mybreath and just return to my
(23:28):
body.
Actually, it was a centeringprayer that I was just returning
to the presence of the father.
You know a thousand times overthose 20 minutes.
One of the things that happenswith mindfulness is radical
acceptance for ourselves, and sowe encountered these things in
our body and we're just like,okay, it's okay, I'm not going
to judge that, I'm just going toaccept it as it is and as I did
(23:53):
, that this mindfulness sit isfully embodied, fully spiritual
and fully physical, fully mental.
It's engaging all the spacesexcept relational, which thank
God nobody was there, becausethen I wouldn't be able to go
there.
Probably the wind bugged methrough half of that sit and it
was so distracting and I wasangry and part of the thing I
was acknowledging is just howcold it was on my face and the
(24:14):
sun was barely shining.
And right after thatmindfulness sit, the wind
continued and actually the windcontinued the rest of the time I
was there, but it didn't bug meanymore.
I was able to embrace it andaccept it as it is.
I was able to be present tothat pain and no longer was it a
(24:39):
burden in my life to carry oravoid, because I'd embraced it,
I'd accepted it, I was presentto it.
What if we could encounter allof our pains and struggles in
life like that?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
What if we could encounter our sexual temptations
like that?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Just kind of accept them and dig deeper, say man, I
get really curious.
I wonder what's below that.
Yeah, exactly, instead of oh, Ishouldn't do that, I should
look away.
I wonder what's deeper thanthat.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Breathwork is a way that we can befriend what's
happening instead of battlingwhat's happening.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh, beautiful, beautifully said.
You know just a brief thoughtabout that.
Our sexuality is fully embodiedand we want to call it flesh
and fully disown it.
Right, like we pray to God,just like take my sexuality
because I can't stop looking atporn.
You know how many times did youpray that as a teenage boy?
Like just take this away fromme, god, I'm so angry at it.
(25:39):
It causes so much misery andshame, makes me feel weak.
Rem me, god.
I'm so angry at it.
It causes so much misery andshame, makes me feel weak, makes
me, reminds me that I'm notgood enough.
The thing is, our sexuality isso good and it's a gift from God
and it's a deeply embodiedexperience, and so the more we
could learn how to be present byreturning to the breath, the
better and the richer oursexuality is.
(26:00):
By returning to the breath, thebetter and the richer our
sexuality is.
So, all of a sudden, we may beengaging with our wife in a way
that's not detached andsexualized and objectified, and
what's that word?
Disassociated?
It's present and connected andbeautiful.
That is when sex gets good, notwhen you learn some technique.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Amen.
And sometimes I find it helpfulto breathe different ways, For
example, to breathe more fullyand quickly and deeply versus
the long, slow, deep bellybreathing.
Earlier you were walking methrough multiple different kinds
of breaths.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
There are so many different ways of breathing and
the most important thing is justpaying attention, as we said.
But what's really interestingis that breathing can be a
mirror of the soul or what'shappening at a deeper level.
So if you really start overyears paying attention to your
breath, you'll realize that inevery situation where you feel a
(27:03):
different way, you're actuallybreathing a different way.
I have a friend who's aphenomenal actor from Australia
and he's done these movies withAntonio Banderas and all these
big names, and last time I wasin LA I was hanging out with him
and he said man, some of themost incredible acting or the
way I've been getting so muchbetter as an actor lately, is
(27:25):
realizing that the character isfound in the breath.
So even like his ability to tapinto the emotional state of
another character is determinedby breath, and that's true of
ourselves too.
So Navy SEALs do it to regulatethemselves and Marines in a
negotiation situation wherethings are intense, they can
(27:46):
stay in a regulated statebecause they know what regulated
feels like and they've done thework practicing that and then,
when things get really intenseand stressful, they could return
to that regulated state throughtheir breath.
On the other hand.
Let's say somebody is a reallygood preacher, which I'm not.
I don't like public speaking,but they can begin to pay
(28:08):
attention to how their favoritespeakers breathe when they take
breaths in.
I have some friends who aresingers that they take the same
approach, Like oh, if I want tosing that style, then that's the
way I have to breathe, whenit's held in the body, how deep,
how shallow, if it's chest, ifit's belly, if it's your back,
(28:30):
if it's you know, if you're kindof just breathing in your mouth
.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So there's a whole world to explore within
breathwork for our purposes.
Burke, would you be willing tolead us in a breathwork exercise
?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Absolutely.
Right now I'm not going to do aWim Hof style approach.
It will drop your anxiety leveland stress level significantly
more than any other tool we havein our belt as breathwork
instructors.
It's very intense and it'llbring you, let's say, you're at
a six.
It'll bring you down to a zeroor one within 10 minutes.
(29:05):
It's that powerful.
I'm not going to do that rightnow.
I'll teach you guys that duringthe sessions over the retreat.
What I'll teach you right now issomething I use multiple times
a day.
It's called the physiologicalsigh.
Have you heard of that?
Only from you?
The physiological sigh has alot of research around it and it
will within one minute.
(29:26):
Let's say my stress levels at asix.
Within one minute of breathinglike this, it'll bring me down
to a five and all of a sudden,like everything's starting a
fire and all cylinders, againI'm able to think clearly in one
minute.
So if I go on a walk, let's sayI'm at a six, I could go on a
walk.
It might take 20 minutes todrop me down to a five right,
(29:48):
and going on a walk is aphenomenal form of stress
reduction.
This will get you there in oneor two breaths.
It'll drop you down.
So what it is, you max out yourlungs with oxygen and then
you're going to take a sharpinhale.
So you're going to max out yourlungs and then you're just
going to like, pop out thoseremaining little like spaces in
(30:11):
your lungs which, by the way, doyou know how much like if you
were able to spread out yourlungs?
You know how much surface areathere is.
No Tennis court.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Really.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So if you breathe all the way in, you're maxing out
probably like 90 to 95% of yourintake capacity, and then you go
and you just do a sharp intakeand you're just popping out
those extra little areas thatyou never use.
So with this method you're justgoing to breathe in real deep
and then do a sharp intake tomax it out, and then you can
(30:48):
hold your breath for about fourseconds if you want, or you
could instantly start breathingout.
But the key is long exhales.
So you can always slow yourrate by doing long exhales.
Your heart rate.
You could slow your breathing.
By long exhales you could loweryour anxiety level.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And when you say a long exhale, you mean pursing my
lips so that I'm breathing outlike I'm breathing through a
straw.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
That is a great way to do it, but it's not the only.
It doesn't matter how youbreathe out, but if you have a
little restriction right herewith your mouth, you're going to
be able to drag out the breathlonger than.
If you do this and you're likebreathing out hot air or like
from the back of your throat,there's no restriction, and so
(31:37):
breathing out through a straw itcreates a little restriction so
you could slow your breath evenmore.
It also gives you something topay attention to and somewhere
to focus your attention.
But anytime you have a longinhale instead of an exhale,
it's going to be raising yourheart rate.
Anytime you do a long exhale,it's going to be lowering your
(31:58):
heart rate.
So you're literally changingyour physiology, you're changing
your state of your nervoussystem by how you breathe.
So this one is like max it outand then just one more, and then
you go real slow and you getall the air out completely.
(32:18):
So you should feel your stomachand your chest fill up and then
, when you're exhaling, youshould feel your shoulders drop.
So you're squeezing out everylast bit of oxygen that's in
your lungs and just from one ofthose you'll drop and do another
one, you'll drop your stresseven more.
Do it like a whole two minutesand all of a sudden you're just
(32:41):
going to be present, awake, notstressed, and there's so much
research behind this.
There's not a more effectivetool for quick relief, and it is
soothing.
So if you're super stimulatedand dysregulated from the
trigger, just do some breaths.
So and then, of course, call afriend.
(33:02):
But it may be hard to call afriend if you're still
dysregulated.
So get regulated, pick up thephone.
Beautiful.
What if I just walk theaudience through it right now,
drew?
That would be awesome.
So it's so simple, wim Hof,breath work and there's certain
kinds of breath work that youhave to be on a yoga pad, you
have to be laying down, you haveto be in a safe place.
(33:23):
Physiological side is somethingyou could do anywhere.
If you're driving right now, ifyou're in traffic listening to
this, you know if you'redysregulated, it doesn't matter
where you're at right now.
It helps if you're not doingphysical activity like that.
But you can do it when you'redoing physical activity let's
say you're on a walk go aheadand stop and take a deep breath,
(33:44):
just kind of pay attention tohow it feels in your body.
So you're paying, you'rebringing your attention back to
your breath.
If you're in a place where youcan close your eyes, if you're
driving, don't close your eyes.
If you're in a place wherethat's safe, go ahead and close
your eyes.
If you're in a place wherethat's safe, go ahead and close
your eyes.
And we're just going to do thisfor one minute.
(34:04):
So breathe out all the air.
Now you're ready, take a deepinhale, full lungs, and then
peak your lungs and then slowlyexhale, make sure all that air
(34:31):
is out and then all the way backin again.
Big deep breath and then sharpinhale and lastly, slow exhale
all the way and then get all theair out of your lungs, let your
(34:54):
shoulders drop, feel your headdrop, wiggle your head a little
bit if you want, if that's safe,and return your attention to
your breath again.
You don't have to change yourbreath now.
Just breathe normally.
Just breathe normally.
(35:20):
You know, it always helps tobreathe in through your nose and
breathe out through your mouth,but it really doesn't matter
how you breathe.
What matters is that you'repaying attention.
You know what's crazy aboutthis one, drew.
Kids and babies do it whenthey're crying and they're
regulating their systems fromwhen they, you know, after they
stop crying, they're like all ofa sudden they're like that's it
.
You remember that?
(35:40):
That's the physiological side.
It's so deeply ingrained in ourbody we're going and then that
peak, we're reminding our bodiesof what it's like to calm down
from crying.
Returning to the present, itfeels so good, it's soothing.
We don't get the same cocktailsof hormones as orgasm, so it's
(36:06):
not as addicting and it'stempting to go get that whole
cocktail right, but it issoothing neurologically and
physiologically.
You'll notice I'm smoking acigar.
If you're on the podcast, Idon't know if you noticed, but
I'm not telling you to smoke acigar, and I'm not a proponent
in the sense of like, I'm not anadvocate.
(36:27):
I like them for the flavors andthe sensory experience, and it
brings me back into my body.
The nicotine stimulates my mindwith ADHD better than
medications do.
However, it's one of thosethings that brings me back into
my breath and it slows thingsdown.
You take about one puff a minute, and what I'll do a lot of
times, I'll just show you.
(36:47):
I'll put smoke in my mouth.
Don't do this because you don'tsmoke, drew, but it is
interesting because it's still aform of returning to the breath
.
I'll put smoke in my mouth.
Don't do this because you don'tsmoke Drew, but it is
interesting because it's still aform of returning to the breath
.
I'll put smoke in my mouth andthen I'll breathe out my nose,
because you're not putting smokein your lungs with a cigar.
You never want to do that.
That's so bad.
It's so bad for your health.
But I'll breathe in.
(37:09):
I'll fill up my mouth withsmoke.
I'll breathe out all the airfrom my nose and then I'll
slowly.
I'm holding my breath, I'mslowly letting the smoke out of
my mouth and it ends up takinglike over a minute to do that
whole process.
And it's one of those thingsthat's like I call it, breath
work of the cigar and it is socalming.
(37:33):
You'll notice the last podcastpodcast I had more anxiety in my
body and I was speaking quicker.
I couldn't think as straightand now I've slowed down and the
cigar has been a tool to helpme slow down again.
I don't I'm not pushing cigars,I'm just saying how I've used
them absolutely this stuff is socool.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm really excited for the beauty of breathwork and
also being able to do it inperson at the Husband Material
Retreat in September.
Among the different breakoutsessions, one of them will be
about breathwork and Burke.
You mentioned Wim Hof and he'sfamous for combining breathwork
(38:13):
and cold exposure.
How do those two things gotogether?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Great question and I want to add to that question for
you.
This is kind of how I'll answerit.
How do they help with sexaddiction or porn addiction or
compulsion, whatever word youwant to use.
Breath is about presence, right, as we talked about, cold is
about presence during discomfort.
The way we experience coldphysiologically is the same way
(38:42):
we experience stress.
Well, there's several benefits.
So, first of all, when you'reworking away from addiction and
you're working on sobriety andworking towards wholeness, and
you're working on sobriety andworking towards wholeness,
there's certain things you coulddo that will maximize
neuroplasticity and it'llaccelerate your rate of change
(39:02):
where you're creating new neuralpathways.
One of them is cold exposure.
So another one is exercise.
If you're working on sobriety,go exercise.
Another one is drinking a lotof water.
If you're working on sobriety,trying to get some traction,
drinking a lot of water.
If you're working on sobriety,trying to get some traction, set
a goal of 60 days to drink agallon of water a day.
And this is part of the programI have it's called the Wolfpack
(39:22):
Method, where you're using allthese things to accelerate
change in neuroplasticity andyou're stimulating
neuroplasticity so changehappens faster.
So you're letting the oldneural pathways that you've
taken a thousand times to kindof cover up and you're creating
new neural pathways, and thisjust accelerates the whole
(39:43):
process.
Cold exposure is one of those.
The other thing is it's teachingus discipline, and I'm the
least consistent person you'veever met in your life, like my
motto is consistentlyinconsistent.
So when I say discipline, Idon't mean consistency.
What I mean is a posture ofdiscipline, like what I think
(40:05):
scripture talks about disciplinebe strong and courageous.
Well, how's that apply?
Well, when we experience painsand discomforts, our tendency is
escapism, our tendency isdysregulation or disassociation
or addiction, and all of this isnot embodied, all of this is
(40:25):
not present and all of it is arunning away from pain.
Discipline is a posture wherewe're able to face pain, like
when I did the 20 minutesmindfulness sit and embraced the
wind, the cold wind.
It didn't affect me anymore.
It's because I faced it insteadof facing away from it.
So discipline changes our wholeexperience of pain and
(40:48):
suffering and therefore, sincewe're able to embrace it and
it's not as painful and we'rebeing soothed in the process, we
don't have to run from itanymore.
So much of addiction is runningfrom it Now we can face it.
I would recommend, for 21 days,to take cold showers.
So you're aiming for sobriety,but the other thing you're going
to do is you can take a hotshower and then turn it cold for
(41:10):
30 seconds and then the nextweek turn it cold for a minute
and third week turn it cold fora minute and third week turn it
cold for a minute and a half.
If, if you really want to havefun, like do a nice bath, but
you it's not gonna be realisticto do a nice bath every day.
They say 11 minutes a week isyour maximum benefits and you
don't want to hurt yourself.
Don't force yourself to dosomething more extreme if you're
(41:32):
uncomfortable too much.
Like don't hurt yourself,please.
However, cold exposure doesspeed up neuroplasticity and it
teaches us to face pain.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And breathwork is a huge part of being able to
tolerate it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
This morning I did a 10-minute breathwork session and
then I got in the bath for fourminutes in the cold bath and it
was only like 48 degrees.
But after 20 seconds it didn'teven feel cold anymore.
I was fully relaxed back, likeI was sitting in a hot tub
because I was pairing it with mybreathing.
But if you don't pair it withbreathing then, yeah, it's going
(42:09):
to be a lot more painful.
A lot of people the moment theyexpect you get in the cold.
What do you do?
You hold your breath, you panic, your whole body tenses up.
But if you could do some deepbreaths, you're able to stay
(42:33):
present to it and it doesn'thurt as much.
And then you're rewiring yourbrain to be able to face
discomfort in life.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Brilliant, so I'm excited about the session where
we are going to teach you allhow to do breath work, as well
as the option of pairing it withcold exposure for those who are
so inclined.
Burke, thank you so much forsharing your wisdom and
experience with us.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Man.
I appreciate you so much, Drew,Thank you.
Thanks for this.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You're welcome.
So, guys, if you want to learnmore about Burke and connect
with him, go down to the linksin the show notes, and if you'd
like to join us at the HusbandMaterial Retreat to do some
breath work in September, wewould love to have you there.
You can check that out athusbandmaterialcom slash retreat
.
It's so beautiful.
May we all breathe and alwaysremember you are God's beloved
(43:23):
son and you, he is well pleased.
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