June 30, 2025 • 20 mins
Are you afraid that processing your sexual fantasies might lead to a relapse? Do you have concerns based on your understanding of the Bible? Does your wife have concerns? In this episode, you'll hear three reasons why processing your sexual fantasies can feel threatening, and what it looks like to do this work safely.
Register now for the Sexual Fantasy Workshop: HMA In A Day (Saturday, July 12) at husbandmaterial.com/workshop
Examples of safely processing sexual fantasies:
- Unburdening Sexual Arousal (Dr. Peter Malinoski working with Drew Boa)
- The Guy In The Locker Room (Drew Boa working with Jordan Castille)
- How To Analyze A Sexual Fantasy (Drew Boa and Dr. Doug Carpenter working with each other)
The insights on how to support your spouse's individual recovery and protect your marriage came from Stephen Thomas Consulting.
Take the Husband Material Journey...
- Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube
- Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community
- Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn
- Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today, we're talking aboutsexual fantasies and
(00:21):
specifically the fantasies andgenres that you find not just
arousing but irresistible.
Why are we talking about this?
Ultimately, so that porn canlose its power over you, so that
you can experience lastingfreedom, and that is so much of
my story.
Being able to face my specificsexual fantasies and my fetish
(00:43):
for braces and be able to talkabout it and actually heal
what's underneath it has givenme more freedom than I thought
was possible.
So there's so much freedom andhealing on the other side of
processing your sexual fantasiesand, at the same time, there is
risk involved.
You might have concerns aboutdoing this work.
If you're married, your wifemight have concerns about doing
(01:04):
this work.
If you're married, your wifemight have concerns about doing
this work, and for good reason.
So in this episode, you willlearn three reasons why sexual
fantasy work can feelthreatening and how to maintain
wisdom and safety so that youcan process your sexual
fantasies, strip porn of itsseductive power and find lasting
(01:26):
freedom.
And if you would like my helpin doing this, please come to
our upcoming sexual fantasyworkshop.
On Saturday, july 12th.
We are hosting HMA in a Day.
Hma in a Day is an amazing freeopportunity to spend an entire
day with me and the rest of theHusband Material team.
(01:47):
You'll go through the entireHMA course with a specific focus
on understanding sexualfantasies.
You will witness four livedemonstrations of men processing
their sexual fantasies withprofessional support, and you
will have a chance to join HMAHusband Material Academy, which
only opens up twice a year.
I really believe HusbandMaterial Academy is such a
(02:09):
unique space for Christian mento be able to talk about our
sexual fantasies, process themin a safe environment, and you
can be a part of it for free atHMA in a Day on Saturday, july
12th.
Register now athusbandmaterialcom slash
workshop.
All right, let's get into it.
Based on my work with hundredsof men over the years, here are
(02:31):
the top three reasons I hearabout why sexual fantasy work
can be threatening.
Number one it could lead to arelapse.
Number two it seems contrary toscripture.
And number three maybe yourwife has concerns about it.
Let's dive into each one.
First, processing your sexualfantasies can lead to a relapse.
(02:52):
Yes, that's true.
Also, not processing yoursexual fantasies can also lead
to a relapse and we need to takethat risk very seriously.
I do not recommend processingyour sexual fantasies alone on a
digital device at night.
If you add all those threethings together, it just sounds
like a recipe for relapse.
Also, this goes without saying,but if you are going to process
(03:16):
it with another person, I wouldnot recommend doing so with
someone who you fantasize about.
To me, that seems like commonsense, but you might be
surprised that some guys insiston only processing their sexual
fantasies with someone whoactually could be in their
sexual fantasies.
So if you feel triggered,unstable, unsafe or at risk of
(03:39):
relapse, I would say don'tprocess your sexual fantasies
until you can find a safeenvironment with safe people and
enough self-regulation to beable to go into this part of
your story without allowing itto take control.
So many men never process theirsexual fantasies because they're
(04:01):
afraid of what will happen ifthey start entertaining those
thoughts.
So let me be very clear my goalin this work is not to focus on
my sexual fantasies.
I don't want to fixate on thedetails of my fetish and create
even more arousal.
Rather, my goal is to focus onthe part of me that experiences
(04:27):
this fantasy.
It's about getting to know thatpart of me, finding out what's
underneath that when does itcome from, what's the story
behind the sexual fantasy, andthen explore that.
This is not an exercise inentertaining fantasies.
This is an exercise inexploring what's underneath the
fantasies, and the specific typeof sexual stimulation that
(04:49):
turns you on is just the surfacelevel.
We want to get down under thesurface level, to the soul level
of what's happening within you.
And when you can do that, itdoesn't lead to a relapse.
It leads to redemption andrecovery and beauty and peace
within you.
Porn loses its power.
It's a really beautiful thing.
(05:10):
If you process your fantasies,you actually won't think about
them as much because you'velearned what they're trying to
teach you and those specifictypes of porn will lose their
power.
It's amazing.
But even if you can do this worksafely, some of you are
thinking is this really biblical?
It seems contrary to what Iread in scripture.
(05:30):
Some guys will say why do youwant me to think about my sexual
fantasies, and isn't that theopposite of what the Bible says?
You might be thinking of verseslike Philippians 4, 8.
Whatever is true, whatever isnoble, whatever not right or
pure or noble or admirable, andI hear that this verse is not
(06:01):
telling us to ignore the painfulor unpleasant parts of our
lives, it's not advisingignorance.
When Paul says, think about suchthings, he's not saying don't
think about the brokenness inthe world and the problems in
your life.
Rather, he's saying no matterwhat happens, keep coming back
(06:22):
to what's good.
Keep coming back to what's trueand beautiful.
Let that be the home.
And then, from that home base,you can go out into the things
that are not fun to think aboutwhen we process our sexual
fantasies.
It's like going out on amission and then, when the
mission's done, we come home.
What is that mission?
(06:43):
To grow in self-awareness, tobring the darkness into the
light, to understand myselfbetter, to be able to process
childhood experiences and resumemy sexual development where it
got stunted.
And as we go out into thedangerous wild terrain of
seeking to understand our sexualfantasies and process them, we
(07:06):
need to come home in the end tolove and joy and peace and come
back to exactly what Paul issaying.
Come back to what's true andwhat's right, and oftentimes we
might find more truth and moregoodness hidden inside our
sexual fantasies than we thoughtwould be there.
(07:27):
In fact, it's this foundationthat we have in the truth of the
gospel that allows us toexplore what's underneath our
sexual fantasies without fear.
Because I know that's not who Iam.
I'm God's beloved son In me.
He's well-ple pleased I don'thave to worry about that.
So that frees me up to be ableto be honest and to be be really
(07:52):
vulnerable, so I can experiencehealing.
Paul is not saying never thinkabout the darkness.
Paul is saying bring thedarkness into the light.
And wherever you go on yourhealing journey, always come
home to love and truth and thegoodness of God.
We don't spend time thinkingabout what's right and good and
true in order to escape from theworld or ignore the world, but
(08:16):
in order to face the world andto face the things that are
difficult and tough.
So, if anything, philippians4.8 should be empowering us to
be able to enter theuncomfortable space to face our
fantasies and process them,because we have that foundation
in God's Word.
Process them because we havethat foundation in God's word.
(08:39):
You might even think ofPhilippians 4.8 as a grounding
technique that can help you staysafe and keep your mind free
and focused in order to do thiswork.
Another verse that I hear a lotfrom guys in our community who
have hesitations aboutprocessing their sexual
fantasies is 2 Corinthians 10 5.
We take captive every thoughtto make it obedient to Christ.
(09:01):
And these guys are wonderinghow is processing my sexual
fantasies, taking every thoughtcaptive, making it obedient to
Christ?
I think this verse often getsmisinterpreted.
It can sound like wanting toalways be on guard for every
single thought that might bewrong or sinful and just being
(09:27):
really tense all the time.
But this verse is not advisinghypervigilance.
It's advising intentionality.
It's saying take charge of yourmind, don't just let it do
whatever it wants.
And in the context ofprocessing sexual fantasies, we
might think about it this wayRather than drifting into
thoughts of sexual fantasy,which sounds like a setup for
(09:51):
sexually acting out, we need tobe focused.
We need to be on a mission oftransforming our minds, and
processing our sexual fantasiescan be part of doing that.
However you interpret the ideaof taking every thought captive,
I think in order to take everythought captive, we have to know
what our thoughts are, and ithelps to actually understand our
(10:14):
thoughts are, and it helps toactually understand our thoughts
.
And when it comes to our sexualfantasies, sometimes we are so
in denial or we have so muchfear and shame that we don't
fully allow ourselves to evenadmit what our sexual fantasies
are.
So maybe, in order to takeevery thought captive, we need
(10:35):
to talk about our sexualfantasies and we need to
understand them and process themso that we can follow Jesus
better.
You know, in my very early daysof beginning this process of
pursuing freedom from porn I wasin high school, before I ever
got into a group or read booksabout this topic I remember
(10:59):
writing out my strongest, mostpowerful sexual fantasy in
detail.
I had it on three pages oflined notebook paper and it felt
like I was holding a verypowerful drug in my hands, like
what I've written here is so, soarousing that it could destroy
(11:26):
me.
I remember holding those piecesof paper in my hand and
thinking to myself this is adefining moment.
What am I going to do with this?
I felt like I was Frodo in Lordof the Rings, standing on the
edge of Mount Doom trying todecide if I was going to throw
the ring of power into the fire,and in that moment it hurt so
(11:46):
much.
But I took those pieces ofpaper, I tore them to shreds and
I threw the paper in therecycling bin.
Them to shreds and I threw thepaper in the recycling bin.
And that was a huge turningpoint for me.
I never would have had thatexperience.
If I hadn't written out thosefantasies, if I hadn't faced my
(12:11):
true feelings, I wouldn't havebeen able to take those thoughts
, captive in obedience to Christ.
I think in order to be able tofully surrender our sexual
fantasies, we have to know whatthey are.
We have to understand them sothat we can have more of
ourselves available to interactwith Jesus and follow him.
(12:32):
So, in summary, processing yoursexual fantasies is not
necessarily contrary toscripture.
It's not necessarily going tolead to a relapse, but even then
, you may feel inhibited fromdoing this work.
If you're married and your wifehas concerns about it, maybe
she's afraid of what mighthappen if you try to process
your sexual fantasies.
(12:53):
And if that is the case, Istrongly urge you to please,
please, listen to your wife,because there's something that
matters even more than beingable to process your sexual
fantasies, and that is safetySafety for her, safety for you,
safety for your marriage, andthat is a huge priority for us
(13:15):
at Husband Material.
A few years ago, our team atHusband Material realized the
need to create more safety forthe men who participate as well
as for their wives, and I needto credit Stephen Thomas for
many of the insights I'm aboutto share, because I first
learned them from him and heinitiated a lot of this.
We created a document called ARecommended Conversation to have
(13:36):
with your Wife Prior toAttending the Husband Material
from him, and he initiated a lotof this.
We created a document called arecommended conversation to have
with your wife prior toattending the husband material
retreat.
But I think it equally appliesto men who want to process their
sexual fantasies, and perhapseven men who are registered to
attend HMA in a day where wewill be processing our sexual
fantasies all day in thatworkshop At husband material, we
believe a man's individualrecovery process does not need
(14:00):
to be at odds with his wife'sindividual recovery process or
the rebuilding of their marriageas a couple.
Husbands, if you need to setlimits and boundaries on how
much you process your sexualfantasies, or where and how that
happens, you may feeldiscouraged or tell yourself the
story that you are missing out.
We encourage you to look atthis experience as a powerful
(14:21):
opportunity to build trust withyour partner and trust that God
will provide you with thehealing experiences you need at
this stage of recovery.
Here are some recommendedquestions to ask your wife what
concerns or fears do you haveabout me processing my sexual
fantasies or attending theupcoming workshop HMA in a day?
What boundaries do I need tomaintain to help you feel safe?
(14:44):
Are there any activities thatyou are uncomfortable with me
participating in?
Sometimes men technicallyreceive consent from their wives
to participate, but it happensin the following order First the
wife expresses discomfort, thenthe husband expresses that he
feels like he'll miss out onhealing by not participating,
and then the wife concedesbecause she doesn't want to be
(15:05):
controlling or potentiallyprevent his healing.
We believe this is not trueconsent.
It's harmful to put your wifein a position where she feels
like her recovery is holding youback in some way.
Individual recovery andmarriage recovery should never
be separated.
What's best for her is alsowhat's best for you.
Husbands must learn to attuneto our wives so that we can hear
(15:26):
the no that is sometimes hidingbehind the yes, having a
posture of curiosity andcompassion, rather than control,
can help with this.
Remember that any activity youfreely choose to forego for the
sake of your wife is anopportunity to build trust with
her and heal your relationship,even if that means you forego
some opportunities to processyour sexual fantasies in ways
(15:48):
that don't feel safe enough.
And again, much of thatlanguage comes from Stephen
Thomas, from Stephen Thomas LifeConsulting, and I'm including a
link to his website in the shownotes.
So how do you process yoursexual fantasy safely?
First, you need a safeenvironment.
I recommend doing it in thedaytime, with your clothes on
and don't be alone.
(16:09):
Do it in a place with enoughprivacy that you're not going to
be bothered, and yet in a placewhere you're not going to be at
risk of relapse.
Don't do it in a place whereyou've historically sexually
acted out, like a bedroom or abathroom.
Find a space that feelssupportive and do this work with
safe people.
(16:30):
In Husband Material Academy, wegive new students the
opportunity to join triads.
A triad is a group of three tofive students who support each
other on this journey, and wefind that a group of three is
safer than a group of two whenyou are processing these things.
One-on-one with somebody,especially someone who's not a
professional leader.
On one with somebody,especially someone who's not a
(16:53):
professional leader, there is ahigher risk of one or both of
you being triggered than ifyou're in a group of three.
And if you're married, beingpart of a group of three men
rather than just one-on-one canalso create more safety for your
wife.
One-on-one sessions with aprofessional counselor, coach or
therapist who has been trainedin this area of understanding
sexual fantasies can be sopowerful, so healing, and that's
(17:15):
often the setting where I seethe most breakthroughs happen.
In Husband Material Academy, weoffer that kind of one-on-one
coaching in our hot seatcoaching calls so that all
students who attend can benefitfrom witnessing someone's
process, because when one manheals, we all heal.
So you can process your sexualfantasies safely if you have a
(17:36):
safe environment, if you havesafe people and you also want
some strategies forself-regulation Breathing,
mindfulness, physical exercise,taking breaks can all support
you to be able to do this workwithout giving in into sexual
temptation.
If you're going to process yoursexual fantasies and manage the
(17:57):
very real risk of relapse, youneed to have a safety plan of
what to do if you feel triggeredor if you feel sexually tempted
.
So have some tools in yourtoolbox that you can use, for
example, the ones we teach inHusband Material Academy, the
FLOSS method, boa.
Decide what to do ahead of time, when your prefrontal cortex is
(18:17):
fully functional, rather thanin the moment when you're
triggered.
And finally, if you're married,please give your wife a voice
and a choice when it comes to if, when and how you process your
sexual fantasies.
Remember, this is anopportunity to build trust with
her, even if it means puttingthis on hold until you find the
(18:39):
right safe space to do it.
This work is not easy.
It's so vulnerable and it'sworth it, especially if you're
receiving professional support.
A well-trained coach orcounselor is going to be able to
check in with you and discernif this processing is going in a
(19:00):
healthy direction.
Remember, there's a differencebetween focusing on the fantasy
itself versus focusing on thepart of you that has this
fantasy.
There's a difference betweenhaving curiosity about the
fantasy and intrigue andexcitement about it versus
curiosity about what'sunderneath this fantasy.
Where is it coming from?
What's it about?
(19:21):
What are the desires underneathyour sexual arousal?
We are going to guide you intothis with as much safety as
possible at this upcomingworkshop, hma, in a Day You're
going to get live demonstrationsof men working through their
sexual fantasies in a way that'sgoing to be so powerful to
witness.
And ultimately we do this workof processing our sexual
(19:42):
fantasies every week in HusbandMaterial Academy, including on
Fantasy Friday, the weeklycoaching call that I lead.
If you're interested in this,please go to husbandmaterialcom
slash workshop to join theupcoming sexual fantasy workshop
and join HMA at joinhmacom.
Check out the links in the shownotes if you're interested in
more examples of what it lookslike to process sexual fantasies
(20:04):
.
And always remember you areGod's beloved son and you, he is
well pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today, we're talking aboutsexual fantasies and
(00:21):
specifically the fantasies andgenres that you find not just
arousing but irresistible.
Why are we talking about this?
Ultimately, so that porn canlose its power over you, so that
you can experience lastingfreedom, and that is so much of
my story.
Being able to face my specificsexual fantasies and my fetish
(00:43):
for braces and be able to talkabout it and actually heal
what's underneath it has givenme more freedom than I thought
was possible.
So there's so much freedom andhealing on the other side of
processing your sexual fantasiesand, at the same time, there is
risk involved.
You might have concerns aboutdoing this work.
If you're married, your wifemight have concerns about doing
(01:04):
this work.
If you're married, your wifemight have concerns about doing
this work, and for good reason.
So in this episode, you willlearn three reasons why sexual
fantasy work can feelthreatening and how to maintain
wisdom and safety so that youcan process your sexual
fantasies, strip porn of itsseductive power and find lasting
(01:26):
freedom.
And if you would like my helpin doing this, please come to
our upcoming sexual fantasyworkshop.
On Saturday, july 12th.
We are hosting HMA in a Day.
Hma in a Day is an amazing freeopportunity to spend an entire
day with me and the rest of theHusband Material team.
(01:47):
You'll go through the entireHMA course with a specific focus
on understanding sexualfantasies.
You will witness four livedemonstrations of men processing
their sexual fantasies withprofessional support, and you
will have a chance to join HMAHusband Material Academy, which
only opens up twice a year.
I really believe HusbandMaterial Academy is such a
(02:09):
unique space for Christian mento be able to talk about our
sexual fantasies, process themin a safe environment, and you
can be a part of it for free atHMA in a Day on Saturday, july
12th.
Register now athusbandmaterialcom slash
workshop.
All right, let's get into it.
Based on my work with hundredsof men over the years, here are
(02:31):
the top three reasons I hearabout why sexual fantasy work
can be threatening.
Number one it could lead to arelapse.
Number two it seems contrary toscripture.
And number three maybe yourwife has concerns about it.
Let's dive into each one.
First, processing your sexualfantasies can lead to a relapse.
(02:52):
Yes, that's true.
Also, not processing yoursexual fantasies can also lead
to a relapse and we need to takethat risk very seriously.
I do not recommend processingyour sexual fantasies alone on a
digital device at night.
If you add all those threethings together, it just sounds
like a recipe for relapse.
Also, this goes without saying,but if you are going to process
(03:16):
it with another person, I wouldnot recommend doing so with
someone who you fantasize about.
To me, that seems like commonsense, but you might be
surprised that some guys insiston only processing their sexual
fantasies with someone whoactually could be in their
sexual fantasies.
So if you feel triggered,unstable, unsafe or at risk of
(03:39):
relapse, I would say don'tprocess your sexual fantasies
until you can find a safeenvironment with safe people and
enough self-regulation to beable to go into this part of
your story without allowing itto take control.
So many men never process theirsexual fantasies because they're
(04:01):
afraid of what will happen ifthey start entertaining those
thoughts.
So let me be very clear my goalin this work is not to focus on
my sexual fantasies.
I don't want to fixate on thedetails of my fetish and create
even more arousal.
Rather, my goal is to focus onthe part of me that experiences
(04:27):
this fantasy.
It's about getting to know thatpart of me, finding out what's
underneath that when does itcome from, what's the story
behind the sexual fantasy, andthen explore that.
This is not an exercise inentertaining fantasies.
This is an exercise inexploring what's underneath the
fantasies, and the specific typeof sexual stimulation that
(04:49):
turns you on is just the surfacelevel.
We want to get down under thesurface level, to the soul level
of what's happening within you.
And when you can do that, itdoesn't lead to a relapse.
It leads to redemption andrecovery and beauty and peace
within you.
Porn loses its power.
It's a really beautiful thing.
(05:10):
If you process your fantasies,you actually won't think about
them as much because you'velearned what they're trying to
teach you and those specifictypes of porn will lose their
power.
It's amazing.
But even if you can do this worksafely, some of you are
thinking is this really biblical?
It seems contrary to what Iread in scripture.
(05:30):
Some guys will say why do youwant me to think about my sexual
fantasies, and isn't that theopposite of what the Bible says?
You might be thinking of verseslike Philippians 4, 8.
Whatever is true, whatever isnoble, whatever not right or
pure or noble or admirable, andI hear that this verse is not
(06:01):
telling us to ignore the painfulor unpleasant parts of our
lives, it's not advisingignorance.
When Paul says, think about suchthings, he's not saying don't
think about the brokenness inthe world and the problems in
your life.
Rather, he's saying no matterwhat happens, keep coming back
(06:22):
to what's good.
Keep coming back to what's trueand beautiful.
Let that be the home.
And then, from that home base,you can go out into the things
that are not fun to think aboutwhen we process our sexual
fantasies.
It's like going out on amission and then, when the
mission's done, we come home.
What is that mission?
(06:43):
To grow in self-awareness, tobring the darkness into the
light, to understand myselfbetter, to be able to process
childhood experiences and resumemy sexual development where it
got stunted.
And as we go out into thedangerous wild terrain of
seeking to understand our sexualfantasies and process them, we
(07:06):
need to come home in the end tolove and joy and peace and come
back to exactly what Paul issaying.
Come back to what's true andwhat's right, and oftentimes we
might find more truth and moregoodness hidden inside our
sexual fantasies than we thoughtwould be there.
(07:27):
In fact, it's this foundationthat we have in the truth of the
gospel that allows us toexplore what's underneath our
sexual fantasies without fear.
Because I know that's not who Iam.
I'm God's beloved son In me.
He's well-ple pleased I don'thave to worry about that.
So that frees me up to be ableto be honest and to be be really
(07:52):
vulnerable, so I can experiencehealing.
Paul is not saying never thinkabout the darkness.
Paul is saying bring thedarkness into the light.
And wherever you go on yourhealing journey, always come
home to love and truth and thegoodness of God.
We don't spend time thinkingabout what's right and good and
true in order to escape from theworld or ignore the world, but
(08:16):
in order to face the world andto face the things that are
difficult and tough.
So, if anything, philippians4.8 should be empowering us to
be able to enter theuncomfortable space to face our
fantasies and process them,because we have that foundation
in God's Word.
Process them because we havethat foundation in God's word.
(08:39):
You might even think ofPhilippians 4.8 as a grounding
technique that can help you staysafe and keep your mind free
and focused in order to do thiswork.
Another verse that I hear a lotfrom guys in our community who
have hesitations aboutprocessing their sexual
fantasies is 2 Corinthians 10 5.
We take captive every thoughtto make it obedient to Christ.
(09:01):
And these guys are wonderinghow is processing my sexual
fantasies, taking every thoughtcaptive, making it obedient to
Christ?
I think this verse often getsmisinterpreted.
It can sound like wanting toalways be on guard for every
single thought that might bewrong or sinful and just being
(09:27):
really tense all the time.
But this verse is not advisinghypervigilance.
It's advising intentionality.
It's saying take charge of yourmind, don't just let it do
whatever it wants.
And in the context ofprocessing sexual fantasies, we
might think about it this wayRather than drifting into
thoughts of sexual fantasy,which sounds like a setup for
(09:51):
sexually acting out, we need tobe focused.
We need to be on a mission oftransforming our minds, and
processing our sexual fantasiescan be part of doing that.
However you interpret the ideaof taking every thought captive,
I think in order to take everythought captive, we have to know
what our thoughts are, and ithelps to actually understand our
(10:14):
thoughts are, and it helps toactually understand our thoughts
.
And when it comes to our sexualfantasies, sometimes we are so
in denial or we have so muchfear and shame that we don't
fully allow ourselves to evenadmit what our sexual fantasies
are.
So maybe, in order to takeevery thought captive, we need
(10:35):
to talk about our sexualfantasies and we need to
understand them and process themso that we can follow Jesus
better.
You know, in my very early daysof beginning this process of
pursuing freedom from porn I wasin high school, before I ever
got into a group or read booksabout this topic I remember
(10:59):
writing out my strongest, mostpowerful sexual fantasy in
detail.
I had it on three pages oflined notebook paper and it felt
like I was holding a verypowerful drug in my hands, like
what I've written here is so, soarousing that it could destroy
(11:26):
me.
I remember holding those piecesof paper in my hand and
thinking to myself this is adefining moment.
What am I going to do with this?
I felt like I was Frodo in Lordof the Rings, standing on the
edge of Mount Doom trying todecide if I was going to throw
the ring of power into the fire,and in that moment it hurt so
(11:46):
much.
But I took those pieces ofpaper, I tore them to shreds and
I threw the paper in therecycling bin.
Them to shreds and I threw thepaper in the recycling bin.
And that was a huge turningpoint for me.
I never would have had thatexperience.
If I hadn't written out thosefantasies, if I hadn't faced my
(12:11):
true feelings, I wouldn't havebeen able to take those thoughts
, captive in obedience to Christ.
I think in order to be able tofully surrender our sexual
fantasies, we have to know whatthey are.
We have to understand them sothat we can have more of
ourselves available to interactwith Jesus and follow him.
(12:32):
So, in summary, processing yoursexual fantasies is not
necessarily contrary toscripture.
It's not necessarily going tolead to a relapse, but even then
, you may feel inhibited fromdoing this work.
If you're married and your wifehas concerns about it, maybe
she's afraid of what mighthappen if you try to process
your sexual fantasies.
(12:53):
And if that is the case, Istrongly urge you to please,
please, listen to your wife,because there's something that
matters even more than beingable to process your sexual
fantasies, and that is safetySafety for her, safety for you,
safety for your marriage, andthat is a huge priority for us
(13:15):
at Husband Material.
A few years ago, our team atHusband Material realized the
need to create more safety forthe men who participate as well
as for their wives, and I needto credit Stephen Thomas for
many of the insights I'm aboutto share, because I first
learned them from him and heinitiated a lot of this.
We created a document called ARecommended Conversation to have
(13:36):
with your Wife Prior toAttending the Husband Material
from him, and he initiated a lotof this.
We created a document called arecommended conversation to have
with your wife prior toattending the husband material
retreat.
But I think it equally appliesto men who want to process their
sexual fantasies, and perhapseven men who are registered to
attend HMA in a day where wewill be processing our sexual
fantasies all day in thatworkshop At husband material, we
believe a man's individualrecovery process does not need
(14:00):
to be at odds with his wife'sindividual recovery process or
the rebuilding of their marriageas a couple.
Husbands, if you need to setlimits and boundaries on how
much you process your sexualfantasies, or where and how that
happens, you may feeldiscouraged or tell yourself the
story that you are missing out.
We encourage you to look atthis experience as a powerful
(14:21):
opportunity to build trust withyour partner and trust that God
will provide you with thehealing experiences you need at
this stage of recovery.
Here are some recommendedquestions to ask your wife what
concerns or fears do you haveabout me processing my sexual
fantasies or attending theupcoming workshop HMA in a day?
What boundaries do I need tomaintain to help you feel safe?
(14:44):
Are there any activities thatyou are uncomfortable with me
participating in?
Sometimes men technicallyreceive consent from their wives
to participate, but it happensin the following order First the
wife expresses discomfort, thenthe husband expresses that he
feels like he'll miss out onhealing by not participating,
and then the wife concedesbecause she doesn't want to be
(15:05):
controlling or potentiallyprevent his healing.
We believe this is not trueconsent.
It's harmful to put your wifein a position where she feels
like her recovery is holding youback in some way.
Individual recovery andmarriage recovery should never
be separated.
What's best for her is alsowhat's best for you.
Husbands must learn to attuneto our wives so that we can hear
(15:26):
the no that is sometimes hidingbehind the yes, having a
posture of curiosity andcompassion, rather than control,
can help with this.
Remember that any activity youfreely choose to forego for the
sake of your wife is anopportunity to build trust with
her and heal your relationship,even if that means you forego
some opportunities to processyour sexual fantasies in ways
(15:48):
that don't feel safe enough.
And again, much of thatlanguage comes from Stephen
Thomas, from Stephen Thomas LifeConsulting, and I'm including a
link to his website in the shownotes.
So how do you process yoursexual fantasy safely?
First, you need a safeenvironment.
I recommend doing it in thedaytime, with your clothes on
and don't be alone.
(16:09):
Do it in a place with enoughprivacy that you're not going to
be bothered, and yet in a placewhere you're not going to be at
risk of relapse.
Don't do it in a place whereyou've historically sexually
acted out, like a bedroom or abathroom.
Find a space that feelssupportive and do this work with
safe people.
(16:30):
In Husband Material Academy, wegive new students the
opportunity to join triads.
A triad is a group of three tofive students who support each
other on this journey, and wefind that a group of three is
safer than a group of two whenyou are processing these things.
One-on-one with somebody,especially someone who's not a
professional leader.
On one with somebody,especially someone who's not a
(16:53):
professional leader, there is ahigher risk of one or both of
you being triggered than ifyou're in a group of three.
And if you're married, beingpart of a group of three men
rather than just one-on-one canalso create more safety for your
wife.
One-on-one sessions with aprofessional counselor, coach or
therapist who has been trainedin this area of understanding
sexual fantasies can be sopowerful, so healing, and that's
(17:15):
often the setting where I seethe most breakthroughs happen.
In Husband Material Academy, weoffer that kind of one-on-one
coaching in our hot seatcoaching calls so that all
students who attend can benefitfrom witnessing someone's
process, because when one manheals, we all heal.
So you can process your sexualfantasies safely if you have a
(17:36):
safe environment, if you havesafe people and you also want
some strategies forself-regulation Breathing,
mindfulness, physical exercise,taking breaks can all support
you to be able to do this workwithout giving in into sexual
temptation.
If you're going to process yoursexual fantasies and manage the
(17:57):
very real risk of relapse, youneed to have a safety plan of
what to do if you feel triggeredor if you feel sexually tempted
.
So have some tools in yourtoolbox that you can use, for
example, the ones we teach inHusband Material Academy, the
FLOSS method, boa.
Decide what to do ahead of time, when your prefrontal cortex is
(18:17):
fully functional, rather thanin the moment when you're
triggered.
And finally, if you're married,please give your wife a voice
and a choice when it comes to if, when and how you process your
sexual fantasies.
Remember, this is anopportunity to build trust with
her, even if it means puttingthis on hold until you find the
(18:39):
right safe space to do it.
This work is not easy.
It's so vulnerable and it'sworth it, especially if you're
receiving professional support.
A well-trained coach orcounselor is going to be able to
check in with you and discernif this processing is going in a
(19:00):
healthy direction.
Remember, there's a differencebetween focusing on the fantasy
itself versus focusing on thepart of you that has this
fantasy.
There's a difference betweenhaving curiosity about the
fantasy and intrigue andexcitement about it versus
curiosity about what'sunderneath this fantasy.
Where is it coming from?
What's it about?
(19:21):
What are the desires underneathyour sexual arousal?
We are going to guide you intothis with as much safety as
possible at this upcomingworkshop, hma, in a Day You're
going to get live demonstrationsof men working through their
sexual fantasies in a way that'sgoing to be so powerful to
witness.
And ultimately we do this workof processing our sexual
(19:42):
fantasies every week in HusbandMaterial Academy, including on
Fantasy Friday, the weeklycoaching call that I lead.
If you're interested in this,please go to husbandmaterialcom
slash workshop to join theupcoming sexual fantasy workshop
and join HMA at joinhmacom.
Check out the links in the shownotes if you're interested in
more examples of what it lookslike to process sexual fantasies
(20:04):
.
And always remember you areGod's beloved son and you, he is
well pleased.
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