January 9, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode, Drew Boa helps Jordan Castille process a sexual fantasy about a guy in a locker room. This is a demonstration of Fantasy Friday, one of the weekly HMA Coaching Calls. Learn more and join HMA this week at joinHMA.com.
Drew Boa is the founder of Husband Material. He is a Pastoral Sex Addiction Professional, Inner Child Recovery Specialist, Brainspotting Practitioner, and Certified Husband Material Coach.
Jordan Castille is a Board Certified Christian Counselor, Certified Clinical Sex Addiction Specialist, APSATS CPC (Certified Partner Coach) Candidate, and Certified Husband Material Coach. Learn more at castillecoaching.com
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- Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube
- Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community
- Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn
- Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today's episode is an exampleof Fantasy Friday, one of our 10
(00:25):
coaching calls in HusbandMaterial Academy, where I will
be coaching one of our certifiedcoaches, jordan Castile, as he
accesses and processes one ofhis sexual fantasies,
specifically about a guy in alocker room.
In this episode, you are goingto witness how I guide Jordan to
(00:46):
bring healing to this part ofhim and as we invite Jesus into
the experience.
It's really beautiful.
And then at the end, we'llexplain a little bit more of
what happened and how all ofthis works.
I need to give you a little bitof a warning because as you hear
Jordan's fantasy, it might be alittle bit triggering, so I
(01:07):
encourage you to pause thisepisode or fast forward it if
you need to.
I've tried to remove anythingthat could be overly graphic and
if you're interested in doingthis type of work, now is the
time to join Husband MaterialAcademy.
We only open up the doors twicea year, once in January and
(01:28):
once in July.
You can find out more.
Learn more about the programand sign up now at joinhmacom.
Enjoy the episode.
(01:58):
Jordan, hey man, hey Jordan, tobe vulnerable and do this work
so everyone can witness whatit's like.
What do you want to bring tothis demonstration of Fantasy
Friday?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so I have a fantasy that I've written up
here, a typical one for me,fantasy that I've written up
here, a typical one for me, andit's on the SSA side.
So same sex attraction, that'sa big part of my story and I
think I'm I'm ready to share it.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, can I pray for you?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it'd be great.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh God, help us to access the desires underneath
this fantasy.
Come and be present to us andcomfort Jordan.
Give him a sense of your love,kindness and strength within him
.
I ask you to surprise us, toallow everyone to get a little
(03:07):
bit more healing as a resultamen, amen.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay, so I'll get started.
Always a little bit nervouswhen sharing something like this
, okay, so I am at the gym and Ijust finished a workout and
head into the locker room totake a shower, clean up and go
(03:34):
home.
I was feeling a little bitinsecure that day as I saw other
men who look stronger than meand I compared myself to them.
I go over to my locker and Isee a guy that is what I want to
look like.
He's looking at himself in themirror and flexing.
(03:59):
As I begin to undress, I noticethat he's looking at me.
I take a quick glance back athim and I feel a little bit of
arousal.
As I undress all the way, Inotice that he is staring.
(04:20):
I look over again and I seethat he's a little bit aroused.
He then compliments me on myphysique and tells me how strong
I look.
I feel affirmed and tell himthank you.
I compliment him on hisphysique as well.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I just want to check in with you.
How are you doing right now?
Him on his physique as well.
Just want to check in with youhow are you doing right now?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, I'm doing okay.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Would it be okay with you if you give a more general
overview of what happens next?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Sure, okay.
So he follows me and he asks ifhe can join me and I take a
deep breath and say yes, and wego in and and have sex together
(05:29):
and have sex together andthroughout it all he affirms me
I feel chosen and noticed andseen, and I feel accepted.
And then, as we finish and getdressed, he asks me if I want to
(05:52):
hang out with him.
I tell him yes and we go outfor dinner.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you, jordan.
Yeah, what's happening in yourbody right now?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
feel uh a little bit of a relief that it's over yeah
and yeah, you know, I think uh alittle bit of embarrassment and
shame.
Thanks, everybody.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You're getting a lot of appreciation in the comments
right now.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
What a gift.
Yeah, jordan, I heard you saythat you felt affirmed
throughout the whole process.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That seems like a really strong desire.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Affirmed being chosen , befriended yeah, in the end,
you go out to dinner.
Yeah, being chosen befriended,yeah, in the end you go out to
dinner yeah the sense of beinglike, wanted and pursued yeah
(07:22):
would you like to process thesefeelings and see where that goes
?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
All right, okay, jordan, you can close your eyes
or open your eyes Whatever'smost comfortable.
Take a few deep breaths.
As you breathe, become aware ofall of the affirmation of these
(07:58):
men.
Become aware of your ownkindness and courage.
Bring that affirmation toyourself Whenever you're ready.
(08:18):
Focus on the part of you thatfeels unaffirmed and really
desires affirmation, especiallyfrom another man.
Where do you feel that?
In your body?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
My stomach.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
What do you notice about it?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's like there's a longing.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
If that longing could talk, what would it say?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Hey, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Can you picture it?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
What do you see?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I see a younger version of myself.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, he feels stuck and unseen.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Where is he?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
In his bedroom.
He's playing video games.
That was his way of escaping.
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
toward him, his way of escaping.
How do you?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
feel toward him?
Yeah, I feel sadness,compassion, knowing what he went
through at that time.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What was he going through at that time?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
A lot of bullying, a lot of rejection, a lot of hurt.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Who was bullying him?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
A lot of people.
Yeah, there's actually one guyin particular that is coming to
mind and he pretty much bulliedme all of high school and there
(11:32):
were some times that he wouldactually be my friend but then
turn it back a month or twolater.
That's so painful, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And confusing.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Is that why you were feeling stuck and unseen?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he was one of many.
His mark left a bigger one,yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, he was your friend too.
You thought he was your friend.
He acted like your friendsometimes, yeah, so you
retreated to your room to videogames.
What does your body want to doright now?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
well, I feel, I feel tension, especially in my
stomach.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, would you like to go?
And?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
be with that boy yeah .
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, and as your current adult self, walk up to
that bedroom door, maybe knockon it, see what happens.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, knock.
He says come in, just standthere for a minute while he
(13:51):
continues to play.
He invites me to come sit nextto him.
I sit down and watch him.
He's playing Street Fighter 2,which was one of my favorite
(14:11):
games.
He invites, so I pick up thecontroller and we began playing.
Just tells me thanks.
(14:41):
I needed a friend today andtell him I'm here for you, buddy
, keep playing and we just enjoythe time together.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What's it like to enjoy that time together.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, it's good.
He really doesn't know how totalk about what he was going
through.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Would he be open to a conversation about that?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, let me ask.
Okay, yeah, just tells methere's this guy at school and
(16:25):
every time I see him they're inclass together.
Calls me fag, homo, bitch, homo, bitch, and he won't stop.
(16:49):
I don't know how to get it tostop.
I just try to let it run off orignore him, and he just does
not stop.
I just feel so powerless andalone, like nobody sees me.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You respond to him.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
See if you can get a sense of what he needs from you
right now.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No, you right now Just says that he needs a hug.
It says this is so hard.
(18:26):
I didn't ask for any of this.
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
is this happening?
I see your tears.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Older me looks at him and justtells him it's not fair.
You didn't ask for this.
It's going to be hard, butyou're going to get through this
(19:36):
and you're not alone.
He looks at older me and justsays, thank you.
(20:00):
This is the first time anyonehas really asked me about this.
Ask him if we can bring Jesusand ask him that, yeah, would it
(20:30):
be okay if Jesus came in andtalked with us?
Tell him you don't know him yetand talked with us.
Tell him you don't know him yetand he's trustworthy.
He says, yeah, that would benice.
(20:55):
See Jesus, just turn to him.
He looks him in the eye andsays I see, you Saw it all.
(21:23):
I was with you, I love you.
He says those were just meankids and I accept you.
(22:14):
Jordan Says I see this part ofyou and I'm not ashamed of you.
What's?
(22:51):
happening now just feel arelease of that tension that I
was feeling what's happening inyour stomach it feels peaceful
(23:17):
and good.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What's Jesus doing now?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, just sense his peace and that he's here, then
I'm going to be okay.
How's the boy reacting?
(24:20):
Yeah, jesus is inviting him toget up to go for a walk and he
says, okay, we can do that, wow.
(24:41):
And he says, okay, we can dothat, wow, wow.
Just connecting that to thefantasy I just shared yeah, yeah
(25:01):
.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You invited to go out .
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, spend time together, and older me is just
walking with them and enjoyingthe time does that feel like a
(25:50):
good place to stop?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I invite you to just close this.
However, you want to Bring itto an end, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
What Feels good.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Welcome back Jordan.
Yeah, oh man Woo welcome backjordan yeah, oh man, you were
getting a lot of hugs in thecomments yeah, I can see a lot
of thank yous use.
Oh yeah, how was that for you?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I mean really good.
I mean it was definitelyemotional.
I just think, oh, I knew it wasgoing to be emotional today,
but I just think sometimes I'mlike maybe it won't be as
emotional.
(27:00):
Feel good and seen.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, can I read some of the comments?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So brave, beautiful self-compassion.
Your story is so similar tomine.
This is powerful.
Hell, hell, yeah, let's go.
How incredible wowza healing issuch a wonderful miracle to
witness.
We're proud of you, jordan.
(27:32):
Then the words from Jesusreally stood out to me when he
said first, I see you.
That spoke right to your desireand feeling unseen and stuck,
(27:53):
and I think you did a reallywonderful job of showing exactly
what this process is aboutlocating the boy, loving the boy
and then you asked himpermission hey, would it be okay
if we invite Jesus?
Yeah that was so gentle and sorespectful.
(28:14):
Yeah, you kind of youintroduced him to Jesus.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So, and then the three of you at the end walking
together, yeah, I can almostpicture the three of you going
out to dinner.
You know like the well, it'slike you know what you said in
the fantasy, but it was aboutfriendship, right.
It was about friendship, right,it was about this bond.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, and that's what I was longing for in my fantasy
was acceptance and friendship,and it was Jesus providing that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, it was the man Jesus and also and also the man
Jordan.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Who were both providing that so good.
Scott says, saying thank youseems too shallow.
Jason says I'm blown away byhow God is in the business of
our ongoing healing andrestoration.
Tim says I learned so much foryou, jordan.
(29:17):
My story is so similar.
Your bravery makes me want togo there too.
Do it Right.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Come come to transformation Thursday.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Come to fantasy Friday.
We do this every week.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I say that so casually, but it really is
sacred.
There was a moment where Ialmost interrupted your process.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I really wanted to give you the space to just flow
with it, because it felt likeyou were on a roll, so I really
didn't say or do very much.
Sometimes the coach mightintervene more, but sometimes we
don't because we don't want toget in the way of what's
happening here.
Yeah, and so when you weretalking about that bully, or
(30:10):
that friend slash bully, Iwondered if he resembled the
person in your fantasy.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Not this time, okay, uh, before in, in one of my
fantasies I did have one, uh,that did resemble that.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
So that you know that's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I felt like if I asked that, it would have taken
you up into your head.
You know, maybe it wouldn'thave, but in this work we really
want to stay in the heart space.
And then there was that wowmoment where you got up from
playing video games and went fora walk with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Which is what I feel like you've done in your life.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, you know, I see , like you know, in the desires
worksheet in the academy, youinvite Jesus to provide that
desire for you.
You provide it for yourself andthen you seek to provide it to
(31:22):
others and from others, and Ijust felt like that was a way of
Jesus meeting me and evenmyself providing that desire.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, it truly was.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And all of us coming around you and then you also
giving a gift to others throughthis.
I mean, yeah, thank you.
We're going to do a little Q&Atime.
Before we do that, can I prayfor us, or would you like to
pray?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
yeah, I can pray, okay.
Um well, yeah, jesus, yeah,thank you for this process just
now and yeah, god, I I really dowant to pray for the men that
are on this right now and ifthey're struggling, if they're
(32:23):
needing clarity or just even,yeah, feeling arousal from my
story, would you meet them and,yeah, would you speak through me
and Drew, as we share?
Amen.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Amen, amen.
So I'm glad you brought up thatfeelings of arousal might be
coming up when you were firstsharing the fantasy.
Um, you remember that I Ipaused to check in with you.
I felt a little bit cautious,yeah, in that moment, because I
(33:05):
hadn't actually heard what youhad written out yet and and to
me it felt like it was gettingclose to a place where it could
have been getting into graphicdetail, right.
So that was a bit of a risk tojump in there and it's something
(33:26):
we try to balance in HMA islike okay, want to be honest
because the power is in theparticularity.
And we also want to be honest,because the power is in the
particularity, and we also wantto be protective too.
So what was that like for you,jordan?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
yeah, I uh, I did appreciate your caution there.
You know, I'm kind of just inthe this intense sharing, you
know, in the moment and I meanit was fine.
I definitely, you know, itdidn't really throw me off that
much Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, sometimes guys can feel triggered, or feeling
like, oh my gosh, I didsomething wrong.
Or feeling ashamed or notaccepted because I was in the
middle of sharing.
So and we try to make a balancethere let's get to some
questions.
And we try to make a balancethere.
Let's get to some questions.
How can we be sure that theconnection we are discovering
(34:20):
between past experiences andfeelings and a current fantasy
is a real connection and not onethat we are imagining in our
minds now just because it seemsto make logical sense?
Great question how can we besure?
We can't be sure.
There's no certainty here.
That's why curiosity is soimportant.
(34:45):
Yeah, a lot of times you canfind that the connection is real
, based on what your body isdoing, like if you have a
physical reaction, like tearscome to your eyes or a sinking
feeling in your stomach.
We might not always interpretthose signals correctly, but it
means there's something therethat we want to explore.
Instead of trying to thinkabout it and analyze it, we're
(35:08):
more focused on what we arefeeling emotionally and
physically and just becomingaware of that.
And sometimes, you know,sometimes we don't, we don't
really know, or there's not aclear connection, and that's
okay too yeah, I really, Ireally think, drew, as you're
(35:31):
describing, that you know a lotof times it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
It just takes practicing and awareness to
really understand more and theprocessing it with someone else
to be able to go deeper anddeeper into you.
Know the reason why you'rearoused by you know the reason
(35:58):
why you're aroused by somethingor a situation and yeah, it's
not always straightforward.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, mark asks why is the question asked where do
you feel this in your body?
We're going to get into thatmore in session or about why
that's so important.
I think session three a littlebit too.
But yes, I mean, we carrytrauma in our bodies.
Healing happens in our bodies.
Yeah, the body keeps the score.
(36:22):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, it's.
It's like when you feel whereit is in your body and you're
able to connect with it.
It really helps you to connectwith the story, yes, which is
very powerful in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, because oftentimes these memories are
not just explicit memories,they're body memories, they're
implicit memories, as we talkedabout in session one.
Drew says I feel like I don'thave a lot of reoccurring full
fantasies or stories like theones shared.
I just have these urges,intrusive thoughts, fetishes,
and I've been able to glean alot from those.
(36:59):
But I can't think of anyfantasy I could write out, and
you know what?
That's okay.
In Unit 4 of HMA I have anassignment called the secret
screenplay, where you actuallywrite something out and we
provide a lot of safe boundariesaround that so that it doesn't
lead to a relapse.
And so much of the healing workis to piece together these
(37:20):
fragments, these different parts.
Right, there's a thought overhere, a fetish over here, an
urge, and kind of fullyintegrate them together and
that's when you get more of thestory.
But for some of you guyswriting that story could just be
asking okay, well, in this urge, why is that so strong?
Where is that coming from?
What would happen next?
How would I feel To get moreclarity?
(37:46):
Okay, what is the fantasy?
But this process really doesn'tjust work for fantasies.
It works for urges, attractions, thoughts, feelings, anything.
Yeah, these are all parts andin session three we're going to
talk about parts.
This was essentially a form ofparts work.
Inner child work and parts workhave a lot in common, so we
(38:07):
will get to that.
Edward says it seems like thiswould ideally happen in
one-on-one coaching work.
How do you do that on a groupcall?
Well, we do it just like we didhere.
It's a group in the sense that,hey, we're all present, but
it's a one-on-one call in thesense that Jordan and I were
totally focused on each otherand nobody else.
It's powerful in this context,because then you get all the
comments of affirmation andacceptance and appreciation from
(38:28):
everybody.
That's kind of like holdingJordan up and supporting him and
cheering him and praying forhim.
So it is one-on-one and groupat the same time.
That's what we call a hot seatcoaching call.
Okay, Adam is saying that whenI do this type of work I can't
visualize anything.
I can't see anything, and that'sokay.
(38:51):
We have more than just sight.
We have other senses too.
So what do you hear?
What do you feel?
What's coming to you?
Maybe not in images but inwords or some other type of
(39:16):
input, but visualization, Ithink, can be very, very helpful
, because porn is so visual andbecause our attractions and
fantasies are so visual.
In a sense, we are disciplingour imaginations.
Adam says what's a good way toprotect ourselves after such an
emotional release?
I mean it's really important tocare for yourself after this,
(39:39):
For example, after Jordan'sprocess.
You know, maybe you go for awalk.
That's how the process endedand it seems like that would be
a supportive way to go forwardafter that.
But I mean, sometimes, when weexperience healing and when
there's a disruptive goodnessand it's like, oh my gosh, this
(39:59):
is so good, it actually can be atrigger to act out.
When you have a really, reallygood day, that can be just as
triggering as something painfulor frustrating.
So you need to become aware ofthose tendencies to
self-sabotage.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, I like what Matthew says Don't go
doom-scrolling, for sure I likethe walk.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, yeah right.
Choose connection, Choose togive yourself something good,
because this is really, reallyhard work, and sometimes people
hear addiction recoveryspecialists talk about self-care
a lot and men who areoutgrowing porn or attached to
(40:44):
porn are notorious for nothaving self-care.
It's like no, either I don'tthink I can or I don't feel like
I deserve it.
But I want to invite you toreframe self-care as caring for
the little boy, spending qualitytime with him.
If you don't, then you'rereenacting the neglect and
(41:07):
abandonment and abuse thatyou've known all your life.
that you've known all your life.
So, whether you call itself-care or soul care, quality
bro time find a way to giveyourself something good.
After an experience like this,let's get practical about this.
(41:28):
So you've had a very intenseexperience here at the first two
sessions of HMA in a day.
Come in the chat and tell uswhat are you going to do during
the next hour break.
Take care for your soul or takecare for yourself?
Put it in the chat.
(41:48):
Take a walk, call a friend,cook myself a meal, eat lunch,
get a haircut, take a nap,chipotle video games with my
kids, journaling, indian food,meditation.
Treat myself, lay down, givemyself a hug, hug meal and a
(42:10):
cigar.
Hang out with my wife AwesomeWork.
Be with God for a bit.
Play guitar, even if you haveto go back to work.
Just be aware of how much yourheart has been through today so
(42:35):
good.
Thank you for coming to sessiontwo.
I want to remind you that hma isopen this week only at join
hmacom.
You can sign up this weekend toget all the recordings of hma
today and four other bonuscourses in addition to the full
program.
We would love to have you there.
I mean we're going to becontinuing this.
If you love this, if you wantto keep going with this, join
(43:02):
HMA.
If you want to take a turn inthe hot seat, join HMA.
If you want to watch a fewother guys, do it first join HMA
.
If you want to understand yourfantasies, transform your
triggers, get more structure andsupport to heal and outgrow
porn, definitely join HMA atjoinhmacom, and that's it.
(43:23):
Thank you so much forwitnessing this example of
Fantasy Friday, which werecorded last summer at the HMA
in a Day workshop.
I hope it was helpful, maybeeven healing for you.
And if you would like to be apart of this, join HMA at
joinhmacom.
And always remember my friendyou are God's beloved son and
(43:45):
you, he is well-pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa and I'mhere to show you how let's go.
Today's episode is an exampleof Fantasy Friday, one of our 10
(00:25):
coaching calls in HusbandMaterial Academy, where I will
be coaching one of our certifiedcoaches, jordan Castile, as he
accesses and processes one ofhis sexual fantasies,
specifically about a guy in alocker room.
In this episode, you are goingto witness how I guide Jordan to
(00:46):
bring healing to this part ofhim and as we invite Jesus into
the experience.
It's really beautiful.
And then at the end, we'llexplain a little bit more of
what happened and how all ofthis works.
I need to give you a little bitof a warning because as you hear
Jordan's fantasy, it might be alittle bit triggering, so I
(01:07):
encourage you to pause thisepisode or fast forward it if
you need to.
I've tried to remove anythingthat could be overly graphic and
if you're interested in doingthis type of work, now is the
time to join Husband MaterialAcademy.
We only open up the doors twicea year, once in January and
(01:28):
once in July.
You can find out more.
Learn more about the programand sign up now at joinhmacom.
Enjoy the episode.
(01:58):
Jordan, hey man, hey Jordan, tobe vulnerable and do this work
so everyone can witness whatit's like.
What do you want to bring tothis demonstration of Fantasy
Friday?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so I have a fantasy that I've written up
here, a typical one for me,fantasy that I've written up
here, a typical one for me, andit's on the SSA side.
So same sex attraction, that'sa big part of my story and I
think I'm I'm ready to share it.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, can I pray for you?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it'd be great.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh God, help us to access the desires underneath
this fantasy.
Come and be present to us andcomfort Jordan.
Give him a sense of your love,kindness and strength within him
.
I ask you to surprise us, toallow everyone to get a little
(03:07):
bit more healing as a resultamen, amen.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay, so I'll get started.
Always a little bit nervouswhen sharing something like this
, okay, so I am at the gym and Ijust finished a workout and
head into the locker room totake a shower, clean up and go
(03:34):
home.
I was feeling a little bitinsecure that day as I saw other
men who look stronger than meand I compared myself to them.
I go over to my locker and Isee a guy that is what I want to
look like.
He's looking at himself in themirror and flexing.
(03:59):
As I begin to undress, I noticethat he's looking at me.
I take a quick glance back athim and I feel a little bit of
arousal.
As I undress all the way, Inotice that he is staring.
(04:20):
I look over again and I seethat he's a little bit aroused.
He then compliments me on myphysique and tells me how strong
I look.
I feel affirmed and tell himthank you.
I compliment him on hisphysique as well.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I just want to check in with you.
How are you doing right now?
Him on his physique as well.
Just want to check in with youhow are you doing right now?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, I'm doing okay.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Would it be okay with you if you give a more general
overview of what happens next?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Sure, okay.
So he follows me and he asks ifhe can join me and I take a
deep breath and say yes, and wego in and and have sex together
(05:29):
and have sex together andthroughout it all he affirms me
I feel chosen and noticed andseen, and I feel accepted.
And then, as we finish and getdressed, he asks me if I want to
(05:52):
hang out with him.
I tell him yes and we go outfor dinner.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you, jordan.
Yeah, what's happening in yourbody right now?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
feel uh a little bit of a relief that it's over yeah
and yeah, you know, I think uh alittle bit of embarrassment and
shame.
Thanks, everybody.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You're getting a lot of appreciation in the comments
right now.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
What a gift.
Yeah, jordan, I heard you saythat you felt affirmed
throughout the whole process.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That seems like a really strong desire.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Affirmed being chosen , befriended yeah, in the end,
you go out to dinner.
Yeah, being chosen befriended,yeah, in the end you go out to
dinner yeah the sense of beinglike, wanted and pursued yeah
(07:22):
would you like to process thesefeelings and see where that goes
?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
All right, okay, jordan, you can close your eyes
or open your eyes Whatever'smost comfortable.
Take a few deep breaths.
As you breathe, become aware ofall of the affirmation of these
(07:58):
men.
Become aware of your ownkindness and courage.
Bring that affirmation toyourself Whenever you're ready.
(08:18):
Focus on the part of you thatfeels unaffirmed and really
desires affirmation, especiallyfrom another man.
Where do you feel that?
In your body?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
My stomach.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
What do you notice about it?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's like there's a longing.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
If that longing could talk, what would it say?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Hey, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Can you picture it?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
What do you see?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I see a younger version of myself.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, he feels stuck and unseen.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Where is he?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
In his bedroom.
He's playing video games.
That was his way of escaping.
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
toward him, his way of escaping.
How do you?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
feel toward him?
Yeah, I feel sadness,compassion, knowing what he went
through at that time.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What was he going through at that time?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
A lot of bullying, a lot of rejection, a lot of hurt.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Who was bullying him?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
A lot of people.
Yeah, there's actually one guyin particular that is coming to
mind and he pretty much bulliedme all of high school and there
(11:32):
were some times that he wouldactually be my friend but then
turn it back a month or twolater.
That's so painful, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And confusing.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Is that why you were feeling stuck and unseen?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he was one of many.
His mark left a bigger one,yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, he was your friend too.
You thought he was your friend.
He acted like your friendsometimes, yeah, so you
retreated to your room to videogames.
What does your body want to doright now?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
well, I feel, I feel tension, especially in my
stomach.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, would you like to go?
And?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
be with that boy yeah .
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, and as your current adult self, walk up to
that bedroom door, maybe knockon it, see what happens.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, knock.
He says come in, just standthere for a minute while he
(13:51):
continues to play.
He invites me to come sit nextto him.
I sit down and watch him.
He's playing Street Fighter 2,which was one of my favorite
(14:11):
games.
He invites, so I pick up thecontroller and we began playing.
Just tells me thanks.
(14:41):
I needed a friend today andtell him I'm here for you, buddy
, keep playing and we just enjoythe time together.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What's it like to enjoy that time together.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, it's good.
He really doesn't know how totalk about what he was going
through.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Would he be open to a conversation about that?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, let me ask.
Okay, yeah, just tells methere's this guy at school and
(16:25):
every time I see him they're inclass together.
Calls me fag, homo, bitch, homo, bitch, and he won't stop.
(16:49):
I don't know how to get it tostop.
I just try to let it run off orignore him, and he just does
not stop.
I just feel so powerless andalone, like nobody sees me.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You respond to him.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
See if you can get a sense of what he needs from you
right now.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No, you right now Just says that he needs a hug.
It says this is so hard.
(18:26):
I didn't ask for any of this.
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
is this happening?
I see your tears.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Older me looks at him and justtells him it's not fair.
You didn't ask for this.
It's going to be hard, butyou're going to get through this
(19:36):
and you're not alone.
He looks at older me and justsays, thank you.
(20:00):
This is the first time anyonehas really asked me about this.
Ask him if we can bring Jesusand ask him that, yeah, would it
(20:30):
be okay if Jesus came in andtalked with us?
Tell him you don't know him yetand talked with us.
Tell him you don't know him yetand he's trustworthy.
He says, yeah, that would benice.
(20:55):
See Jesus, just turn to him.
He looks him in the eye andsays I see, you Saw it all.
(21:23):
I was with you, I love you.
He says those were just meankids and I accept you.
(22:14):
Jordan Says I see this part ofyou and I'm not ashamed of you.
What's?
(22:51):
happening now just feel arelease of that tension that I
was feeling what's happening inyour stomach it feels peaceful
(23:17):
and good.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What's Jesus doing now?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, just sense his peace and that he's here, then
I'm going to be okay.
How's the boy reacting?
(24:20):
Yeah, jesus is inviting him toget up to go for a walk and he
says, okay, we can do that, wow.
(24:41):
And he says, okay, we can dothat, wow, wow.
Just connecting that to thefantasy I just shared yeah, yeah
(25:01):
.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You invited to go out .
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, spend time together, and older me is just
walking with them and enjoyingthe time does that feel like a
(25:50):
good place to stop?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I invite you to just close this.
However, you want to Bring itto an end, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
What Feels good.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Welcome back Jordan.
Yeah, oh man Woo welcome backjordan yeah, oh man, you were
getting a lot of hugs in thecomments yeah, I can see a lot
of thank yous use.
Oh yeah, how was that for you?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I mean really good.
I mean it was definitelyemotional.
I just think, oh, I knew it wasgoing to be emotional today,
but I just think sometimes I'mlike maybe it won't be as
emotional.
(27:00):
Feel good and seen.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, can I read some of the comments?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So brave, beautiful self-compassion.
Your story is so similar tomine.
This is powerful.
Hell, hell, yeah, let's go.
How incredible wowza healing issuch a wonderful miracle to
witness.
We're proud of you, jordan.
(27:32):
Then the words from Jesusreally stood out to me when he
said first, I see you.
That spoke right to your desireand feeling unseen and stuck,
(27:53):
and I think you did a reallywonderful job of showing exactly
what this process is aboutlocating the boy, loving the boy
and then you asked himpermission hey, would it be okay
if we invite Jesus?
Yeah that was so gentle and sorespectful.
(28:14):
Yeah, you kind of youintroduced him to Jesus.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So, and then the three of you at the end walking
together, yeah, I can almostpicture the three of you going
out to dinner.
You know like the well, it'slike you know what you said in
the fantasy, but it was aboutfriendship, right.
It was about friendship, right,it was about this bond.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, and that's what I was longing for in my fantasy
was acceptance and friendship,and it was Jesus providing that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, it was the man Jesus and also and also the man
Jordan.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Who were both providing that so good.
Scott says, saying thank youseems too shallow.
Jason says I'm blown away byhow God is in the business of
our ongoing healing andrestoration.
Tim says I learned so much foryou, jordan.
(29:17):
My story is so similar.
Your bravery makes me want togo there too.
Do it Right.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Come come to transformation Thursday.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Come to fantasy Friday.
We do this every week.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I say that so casually, but it really is
sacred.
There was a moment where Ialmost interrupted your process.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I really wanted to give you the space to just flow
with it, because it felt likeyou were on a roll, so I really
didn't say or do very much.
Sometimes the coach mightintervene more, but sometimes we
don't because we don't want toget in the way of what's
happening here.
Yeah, and so when you weretalking about that bully, or
(30:10):
that friend slash bully, Iwondered if he resembled the
person in your fantasy.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Not this time, okay, uh, before in, in one of my
fantasies I did have one, uh,that did resemble that.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
So that you know that's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I felt like if I asked that, it would have taken
you up into your head.
You know, maybe it wouldn'thave, but in this work we really
want to stay in the heart space.
And then there was that wowmoment where you got up from
playing video games and went fora walk with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Which is what I feel like you've done in your life.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, you know, I see , like you know, in the desires
worksheet in the academy, youinvite Jesus to provide that
desire for you.
You provide it for yourself andthen you seek to provide it to
(31:22):
others and from others, and Ijust felt like that was a way of
Jesus meeting me and evenmyself providing that desire.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, it truly was.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And all of us coming around you and then you also
giving a gift to others throughthis.
I mean, yeah, thank you.
We're going to do a little Q&Atime.
Before we do that, can I prayfor us, or would you like to
pray?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
yeah, I can pray, okay.
Um well, yeah, jesus, yeah,thank you for this process just
now and yeah, god, I I really dowant to pray for the men that
are on this right now and ifthey're struggling, if they're
(32:23):
needing clarity or just even,yeah, feeling arousal from my
story, would you meet them and,yeah, would you speak through me
and Drew, as we share?
Amen.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Amen, amen.
So I'm glad you brought up thatfeelings of arousal might be
coming up when you were firstsharing the fantasy.
Um, you remember that I Ipaused to check in with you.
I felt a little bit cautious,yeah, in that moment, because I
(33:05):
hadn't actually heard what youhad written out yet and and to
me it felt like it was gettingclose to a place where it could
have been getting into graphicdetail, right.
So that was a bit of a risk tojump in there and it's something
(33:26):
we try to balance in HMA islike okay, want to be honest
because the power is in theparticularity.
And we also want to be honest,because the power is in the
particularity, and we also wantto be protective too.
So what was that like for you,jordan?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
yeah, I uh, I did appreciate your caution there.
You know, I'm kind of just inthe this intense sharing, you
know, in the moment and I meanit was fine.
I definitely, you know, itdidn't really throw me off that
much Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, sometimes guys can feel triggered, or feeling
like, oh my gosh, I didsomething wrong.
Or feeling ashamed or notaccepted because I was in the
middle of sharing.
So and we try to make a balancethere let's get to some
questions.
And we try to make a balancethere.
Let's get to some questions.
How can we be sure that theconnection we are discovering
(34:20):
between past experiences andfeelings and a current fantasy
is a real connection and not onethat we are imagining in our
minds now just because it seemsto make logical sense?
Great question how can we besure?
We can't be sure.
There's no certainty here.
That's why curiosity is soimportant.
(34:45):
Yeah, a lot of times you canfind that the connection is real
, based on what your body isdoing, like if you have a
physical reaction, like tearscome to your eyes or a sinking
feeling in your stomach.
We might not always interpretthose signals correctly, but it
means there's something therethat we want to explore.
Instead of trying to thinkabout it and analyze it, we're
(35:08):
more focused on what we arefeeling emotionally and
physically and just becomingaware of that.
And sometimes, you know,sometimes we don't, we don't
really know, or there's not aclear connection, and that's
okay too yeah, I really, Ireally think, drew, as you're
(35:31):
describing, that you know a lotof times it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
It just takes practicing and awareness to
really understand more and theprocessing it with someone else
to be able to go deeper anddeeper into you.
Know the reason why you'rearoused by you know the reason
(35:58):
why you're aroused by somethingor a situation and yeah, it's
not always straightforward.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, mark asks why is the question asked where do
you feel this in your body?
We're going to get into thatmore in session or about why
that's so important.
I think session three a littlebit too.
But yes, I mean, we carrytrauma in our bodies.
Healing happens in our bodies.
Yeah, the body keeps the score.
(36:22):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, it's.
It's like when you feel whereit is in your body and you're
able to connect with it.
It really helps you to connectwith the story, yes, which is
very powerful in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, because oftentimes these memories are
not just explicit memories,they're body memories, they're
implicit memories, as we talkedabout in session one.
Drew says I feel like I don'thave a lot of reoccurring full
fantasies or stories like theones shared.
I just have these urges,intrusive thoughts, fetishes,
and I've been able to glean alot from those.
(36:59):
But I can't think of anyfantasy I could write out, and
you know what?
That's okay.
In Unit 4 of HMA I have anassignment called the secret
screenplay, where you actuallywrite something out and we
provide a lot of safe boundariesaround that so that it doesn't
lead to a relapse.
And so much of the healing workis to piece together these
(37:20):
fragments, these different parts.
Right, there's a thought overhere, a fetish over here, an
urge, and kind of fullyintegrate them together and
that's when you get more of thestory.
But for some of you guyswriting that story could just be
asking okay, well, in this urge, why is that so strong?
Where is that coming from?
What would happen next?
How would I feel To get moreclarity?
(37:46):
Okay, what is the fantasy?
But this process really doesn'tjust work for fantasies.
It works for urges, attractions, thoughts, feelings, anything.
Yeah, these are all parts andin session three we're going to
talk about parts.
This was essentially a form ofparts work.
Inner child work and parts workhave a lot in common, so we
(38:07):
will get to that.
Edward says it seems like thiswould ideally happen in
one-on-one coaching work.
How do you do that on a groupcall?
Well, we do it just like we didhere.
It's a group in the sense that,hey, we're all present, but
it's a one-on-one call in thesense that Jordan and I were
totally focused on each otherand nobody else.
It's powerful in this context,because then you get all the
comments of affirmation andacceptance and appreciation from
(38:28):
everybody.
That's kind of like holdingJordan up and supporting him and
cheering him and praying forhim.
So it is one-on-one and groupat the same time.
That's what we call a hot seatcoaching call.
Okay, Adam is saying that whenI do this type of work I can't
visualize anything.
I can't see anything, and that'sokay.
(38:51):
We have more than just sight.
We have other senses too.
So what do you hear?
What do you feel?
What's coming to you?
Maybe not in images but inwords or some other type of
(39:16):
input, but visualization, Ithink, can be very, very helpful
, because porn is so visual andbecause our attractions and
fantasies are so visual.
In a sense, we are disciplingour imaginations.
Adam says what's a good way toprotect ourselves after such an
emotional release?
I mean it's really important tocare for yourself after this,
(39:39):
For example, after Jordan'sprocess.
You know, maybe you go for awalk.
That's how the process endedand it seems like that would be
a supportive way to go forwardafter that.
But I mean, sometimes, when weexperience healing and when
there's a disruptive goodnessand it's like, oh my gosh, this
(39:59):
is so good, it actually can be atrigger to act out.
When you have a really, reallygood day, that can be just as
triggering as something painfulor frustrating.
So you need to become aware ofthose tendencies to
self-sabotage.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, I like what Matthew says Don't go
doom-scrolling, for sure I likethe walk.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, yeah right.
Choose connection, Choose togive yourself something good,
because this is really, reallyhard work, and sometimes people
hear addiction recoveryspecialists talk about self-care
a lot and men who areoutgrowing porn or attached to
(40:44):
porn are notorious for nothaving self-care.
It's like no, either I don'tthink I can or I don't feel like
I deserve it.
But I want to invite you toreframe self-care as caring for
the little boy, spending qualitytime with him.
If you don't, then you'rereenacting the neglect and
(41:07):
abandonment and abuse thatyou've known all your life.
that you've known all your life.
So, whether you call itself-care or soul care, quality
bro time find a way to giveyourself something good.
After an experience like this,let's get practical about this.
(41:28):
So you've had a very intenseexperience here at the first two
sessions of HMA in a day.
Come in the chat and tell uswhat are you going to do during
the next hour break.
Take care for your soul or takecare for yourself?
Put it in the chat.
(41:48):
Take a walk, call a friend,cook myself a meal, eat lunch,
get a haircut, take a nap,chipotle video games with my
kids, journaling, indian food,meditation.
Treat myself, lay down, givemyself a hug, hug meal and a
(42:10):
cigar.
Hang out with my wife AwesomeWork.
Be with God for a bit.
Play guitar, even if you haveto go back to work.
Just be aware of how much yourheart has been through today so
(42:35):
good.
Thank you for coming to sessiontwo.
I want to remind you that hma isopen this week only at join
hmacom.
You can sign up this weekend toget all the recordings of hma
today and four other bonuscourses in addition to the full
program.
We would love to have you there.
I mean we're going to becontinuing this.
If you love this, if you wantto keep going with this, join
(43:02):
HMA.
If you want to take a turn inthe hot seat, join HMA.
If you want to watch a fewother guys, do it first join HMA
.
If you want to understand yourfantasies, transform your
triggers, get more structure andsupport to heal and outgrow
porn, definitely join HMA atjoinhmacom, and that's it.
(43:23):
Thank you so much forwitnessing this example of
Fantasy Friday, which werecorded last summer at the HMA
in a Day workshop.
I hope it was helpful, maybeeven healing for you.
And if you would like to be apart of this, join HMA at
joinhmacom.
And always remember my friendyou are God's beloved son and
(43:45):
you, he is well-pleased.
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