September 29, 2025 • 43 mins
What is connection? What causes disconnection? How can we reconnect? Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill explain the core components of relational connection—especially for couples.
Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill are the founders of Connection Codes, a life-changing framework that has helped thousands of couples and families around the world experience deeper intimacy, safety, and joy. Married for over four decades, Glenn and Phyllis know firsthand what it’s like to feel disconnected and stuck in painful cycles. Their own struggles led Glenn to return to school, earning a doctorate in Clinical Sexology and a master’s in Marriage & Family Therapy. Together, they discovered simple, powerful tools that restored their marriage and now equip others to thrive. Today, they travel globally, teaching couples, churches, and leaders how to process emotions, resolve conflict, and build relationships that reflect the love of Christ. Glenn and Phyllis are passionate about helping people discover that emotions aren’t a problem to fix, but a God-given tool to master—so that homes can be healed, marriages strengthened, and communities transformed.
Get the Core Emotion Wheel and learn to regulate your emotions at connectioncodes.co/drew-boa
Buy the book: The Connection Codes: The Blueprint & Tools for Creating the Relationships You Crave, by Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart, and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa, and I'mhere to show you how.
Let's go.
Hey man, thank you so much forlistening to my episode with
(00:22):
Glenn and Phyllis Hill.
They are so incredible.
They are the authors of theConnection Codes, the blueprint
and tools for creating therelationships you crave.
And I really think this can be agame changer for many of you,
especially in the context ofcouples.
We have all experienceddisconnection.
(00:43):
And many of you are familiarwith the idea that the opposite
of addiction is not sobriety,it's connection.
But what is connection?
What causes disconnection andhow can we reconnect with
ourselves, with each other?
How do we process emotions andmeet the unmet needs underneath?
In this episode, you will hearGlenn and Phyllis tell their
(01:04):
incredible story.
They'll share more of thescience of connection and
demonstrate what it looks liketo use a core emotion wheel to
connect.
Enjoy the episode.
I am so thrilled to beintroducing you all to Dr.
Glenn Hill and Phyllis Hill.
Actually, some of you probablyalready know them because I've
heard from multiple people thatwe need to invite Glenn and
(01:26):
Phyllis.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
What an honor.
Yes.
We hear a lot about yourcommunity and about you
specifically, Drew.
And so we're thrilled to be heretoday, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
Yeah, it's good.
Why are you so passionate aboutconnection?
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Because when you live without it, it sucks.
What we do now, as far aspresenting the connection codes,
is born out of our pain.
We've celebrated our 43rdanniversary a few weeks ago, but
we've been married probablyabout 12 years.
And we missed each other so bad.
Because if marriage is about arelationship, well, then the
(02:06):
loss of that relationship, Idon't know what you want to call
it, but it's not marriage.
So we were, and we've alwayscared about each other since the
day I met her.
We've, you know, we've matteredeach other.
We just didn't have any toolsand we had no idea how to
connect deeply.
So to live in that disconnectionday after day after week, after
month, after year, after year,after decade, is pretty intense
(02:26):
and pretty brutal.
And we realize that our researchsays about 91% of people
self-report, this is not myobservation or my criticism,
they self-report that theirmarriage is unsuccessful.
That's pretty bad, pretty badsuccess rate.
So we're just on a mission tochange this because we know what
(02:46):
the pain is.
SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
Well, and what disconnection leads to, right?
So not being connected, like notbeing connected to yourself, not
being connected to other humans,it it's a very destructive path.
And I and I think that if youlook back, you go, yeah, when I
was 12, my goals were not todestroy my life.
That was not my goals.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
And never met that person.
SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
Yeah.
And so it's it's kind of theidea of how did how did we get
here?
And for us, like in ourmarriage, we thought we had all
the right ingredients.
And we, you know, we met at aBible camp, we loved God, we
poured into scripture together,like we loved reading the word
together, we loved prayingtogether, we, of course, did
(03:30):
ministry together, churchtogether.
So it's like we thought we hadall the right ingredients.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
And that's what everybody said.
Yeah.
And we didn't believe what wedid.
SPEAKER_04 (03:39):
Like we followed all the rules to have the perfect
outcome.
And then when we didn't, rightaway, it was almost shocking.
Like this was a lie.
This was what in the worldhappened?
You know, you feel you kind ofjust feel almost this shell
shock of this was never supposedto turn out this way.
(04:00):
And then, you know, the paincomes in, the pain sets in, and
it's the the disillusionment,and there's so much pain in
that, and then you start makingreally bad choices, trying to
find peace, trying to findhappiness, trying to find
connection somewhere out there.
And, you know, I think that foryears we would still always come
(04:23):
back to each other, as in Istill want you and you still
want me, but we just didn'tknow.
And, you know, now, all theseyears later, and all the work
that we do with connection, it'sreally phenomenal to see how
destructive it is when we aren'tconnected.
There's so many things we can beinvolved in and be busy with,
(04:46):
even a job.
And you go, yeah, but nobodyreally knows me here.
And so we're not deeplyconnected with other humans, and
that leads to a tremendousamount of loneliness.
And then in that loneliness, wechoose all kinds of things to
make that go away, make thatfeel better.
And that's what we found.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
Yeah, and for us, it basically we went and bought a
brand new car.
We got home with it, the brakesdidn't work, the steering wheel
didn't work, the seat just keptwobbling, it wasn't buckled
down.
You know, most of the time thecar wouldn't even start.
That was our marriage.
And we're like, wait, this is abrand new car.
It's supposed to go somewhere,and it's the steering wheel is
(05:28):
supposed to work.
It's like, well, you know, Imean, and we were always just
oh, well, marriage is hard.
Marriage is hard work.
And I remember on my weddingday, that was not part of our
vows.
We're not like this is gonna behard work, you know.
We were excited about HappilyEver After, and literally 48
hours later, we were like, oh mygosh, what happened?
(05:48):
But we didn't know, we didn'tunderstand, and you know, we
didn't know if it was gonna lastfor a day or two days or a week
or a month, that this pain thatwe were experiencing.
Of course, we had no idea it wasgonna last over a quarter of a
century.
That's a long time.
We I was 20 years old, I didn'tknow how long a quarter of a
century was.
If you told me on my weddingday, hey dude, buckle up, it's
(06:09):
gonna be a quarter of a centuryof misery.
I'd be like, wait, what?
You're the worst weddingattendant ever.
Uh who invited you?
But that was true.
But we didn't know, we had noidea.
And it again took a long timefor us to get a clue.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
And that feeling of disillusionment and
disconnection is what so manypeople feel when their marriage
falls apart due to porn.
Yeah.
It's a crisis of disconnection,and I can't think of a better
lifeline than the connectioncodes.
(06:46):
We've talked about howdisconnection creates the setup
for so many unhealthy choices inaddiction, and and it's often
what many of us experience everysingle day.
I love how you're taking brainscience and making it more
understandable.
So, from a neuroscientificconnection codes perspective,
(07:10):
what causes this connection?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
Well, that's a a long story, or I can try to make
it concise.
It's an identity issue and it'semotion.
SPEAKER_04 (07:19):
Even that terminology, I think, is is
confusing for faith-based peoplebecause they only have heard
this with identity in Christ.
So when we talk about identity,we're not questioning your
identity with Christ.
We're talking about the identitywith each other.
So the loss of identity meansthat I don't feel that I have
value or that I exist or that Imatter.
(07:44):
There's moments where we canhave a loss of identity.
And Glenn and I had one of thoseon Wednesday where we had a big
project come in.
We didn't know it was coming in,but we had to do it that day.
Really, it meant Glenn had to doit that day.
And he immediately felt a painin it.
I did not recognize his pain.
(08:06):
And I made just a very smallcomment, like, oh, we can just
we can just knock this outreally quick.
Well, for him, that was such ala loss of identity for him
instantly.
It felt like a stab, like thisis not quick.
He knew it wasn't quick.
He knew he had to rewrite thescript, the whole thing had to
(08:28):
be re rewritten that day forfilming the next day.
So his loss in that identity, hecrashed in that moment.
Like he felt like I don't existto you, I don't have value to
you, I'm never good enough.
And it wasn't my experience,right?
I didn't experience it that way.
(08:49):
I'm just like, okay, we got toget it done, let's knock it out.
Because I'm I'm a verytask-oriented person.
And it didn't strike me thatway.
But I didn't slow down with him.
I didn't try to hear hisexperience.
And so for him, it was animmediate loss of identity,
which is like I can't getoxygen.
(09:12):
Like that's how we describe it.
Like when you lose identity,it's like you can't get to
oxygen fast enough.
And in our relationship, you go,oh wow, how often does that
happen?
You know, sometimes it's yourfamily of origin.
Every time you go back home,grandma makes some horrible
off-the-wall comment and youlose identity.
You know, your parents stilltreat you like you're 10 years
(09:34):
old and they don't recognizethis man that's in front of them
and all the achievements.
And so there's this loss ofidentity.
And it's like you can hardlybreathe when you go back home,
and you're like, what's wrongwith me?
Well, it's that loss ofidentity.
So when there's a loss ofidentity, you kind of go, okay,
what do we do with that?
And it's it's the connection,right?
(09:56):
We lost connection on Wednesday.
So we had to find each otheragain.
He had to express the emotion,like the pain he felt.
And I had to sit in that andmake room for that and hear
that.
So that means I had to slowdown, not just defend, but I had
to slow down with him.
And you know, it's interesting.
I know, Drew, you do a lot ofwork with pornography.
(10:18):
We talk about this a lot.
We, of course, hear thesestories a lot, and just for many
men, it started in teenageyears.
And there's a lack ofconnection.
All of a sudden, they'reentering puberty and they don't
feel connected any longer totheir dad, to their mom, to
(10:39):
their siblings.
It's like they're going throughsomething within their bodies
all alone and they don't knowhow to talk about it, and
nobody's talking to them.
And so there's some hugedisconnection that happens
really young, and then theybring that into their adult life
and into their marriage often,that horrible disconnect that
(11:00):
they felt at a young age.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
It could be the loss of identity with other boys, it
could be the loss of identitywith girls.
And at home, maybe feeling likeI don't matter, I'm all alone.
Who cares about me except porn?
SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
Yeah, and that's something we uh always present,
and it's not just porn, but itcan be many things.
It can be alcohol, substances,whatever.
But those are actually thesolution.
We're not saying they're a goodsolution, but they're the
solution.
They're not the cause.
And loneliness is often thecause or fear.
You know, we use terms likestress and overwhelm, but those
(11:41):
are result words.
They are emotion words, butthey're actually the result of
unprocessed emotion.
And uh I always say that the Jayboys are the most reliable
friends you'll ever have (11:50):
Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, and Johnny
Walker.
You can depend on them.
You you know that you can trustthem.
You know, now they don't takeyou where you actually want to
be, but they're safe in themoment.
They're a very short-term,immediate comfort.
And so people turn to that.
I'm not voting for it, I'm notsaying it's a good solution.
(12:11):
Well, the same is true withpornography.
Now, pornography is a is a hoax,it's a big scam because it's a
computer screen.
In my day it was magazines, butyou know, it's a computer
screen.
Well, that's not real, but ourpsyche kind of doesn't know
that.
You know, if you if you met thiswoman that's on the screen in a
coffee shop, she wouldn't eventalk to you.
(12:32):
But our psyche doesn't know thatbecause what it looks like is
she's saying, Hey, I'm safe foryou.
You can trust me.
I, you know what?
You're we're so connected, I'lleven take my clothes off in
front of you.
I'll even do sexual stuff infront of you.
Well, the individual who'sfeeling so much loneliness is
like, oh wow, so this, you know,Bambi is my friend.
You know, she obviously caresabout me and she doesn't.
(12:55):
It's a hoax, but it feels likeshe does.
And that's the great appealthere, especially if the
individual, male or female, buttypically the male, doesn't know
how to connect deeply.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
So if porn is a sexualized solution for
unprocessed emotions, then whatcreates real connection?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Authenticity and vulnerability.
We're born doing this reallywell.
Every 12-month-old on theplanet, assuming they're not in
some catastrophic scenario,knows how to connect deeply.
We're born this way.
Uh, we have 12 grandchildren.
My grandchildren are superior tomost uh grandchildren, but
whatever.
But they're just humans.
(13:41):
Kidding.
But they know how to connect.
And you watch people out inpublic, you know, go to a mall
and everybody's drawn to thebabies.
You know, you see somebodystrolling along with a little
baby, and everybody's like, ohmy gosh, look how cute.
And that baby, if the individualfeels safe to them, will tune in
and they have this bondingmoment.
Well, that's because the babydoesn't know any differently.
And somewhere along the way,unfortunately for most of us, we
(14:03):
lose that.
We we we get lost from ourselvesand we don't present ourselves
authentically and vulnerably.
I broke my arm when I was fiveyears old.
I never told anybody because Iknew I wasn't allowed to.
It was three days later mymother realized I didn't use my
right arm anymore because Icouldn't.
I couldn't move it.
Again, I'm not mad at myparents, but I'm like, what is
(14:24):
happening in a household where afive-year-old breaks his arm and
doesn't say ow?
That's weird.
Something funky's happeninghere.
Well, there's not safety.
He has been told you stopexperiencing what you're
experiencing and you shut upabout it.
And they didn't say those words,but that's the message that was
given.
That's certainly the messagethat I received.
So I learned just don't sayanything.
(14:46):
You break your arm, well, toobad.
You don't say anything.
So as that continues, five yearsold, eight years old, 12, 15,
18, 20, that person, me beingthat person, just doesn't know
how to convey authentic andvulnerably.
But I did when I was born.
I did when I was six months old,I did when I was 12 months old,
but fairly early in life Ilearned not to.
(15:07):
And that's her story too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Authenticity and vulnerability are essential for
connection.
If we don't have those,connection's impossible.
Right.
Yeah.
And yet really being vulnerableis absolutely terrifying.
I'm thinking about the guys whohave sexual secrets that they've
(15:30):
never told anyone before.
And I'm also thinking about someof the wives listening who have
been hurt and deceived andbetrayed, and who have their own
reasons to not be vulnerable.
It seems like feeling safe is soimportant, and yet vulnerability
(15:54):
often feels unsafe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Yeah.
That's the connection codesprotocol is I don't want to be
vulnerable with you until I knowyou're safe, but I'll never know
if you're safe until I'mvulnerable.
So we're stuck.
We're at an impasse, andsomebody has to take a risk.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Phyllis, I remember you talking about how you didn't
realize fear was driving you asan adult, too.
SPEAKER_04 (16:15):
Yeah.
Well, I just didn't understandemotion.
So I very, you know, commonlywould say Glenn has enough
emotions for both of us.
I don't do emotions.
And I didn't say it in a jokingway, I really genuinely believed
it.
And which is just falseinformation.
That's not science, that's nothow our bodies work.
(16:37):
And we all have emotion, it'shoused in our brain.
We have five regions of ourbrain that house emotions.
And I think even as uh just inour Christian faith, we are
really mistaught.
We believe we can choose, youchoose joy, you choose emotions.
And so it's like, that's notscience, that's not how it
(16:58):
works.
Your brain fires emotions.
And so then I started looking atall the emotions, fear being one
of them.
And I very quickly said, Oh no,no, I'm not afraid of anything.
And then he broke down Glennwith his words, his research,
brought down just what is fear.
And I realized, oh my word, Ihave fear of failure, fear of
(17:21):
rejection, fear of making thewrong decision.
And it was very much tied intomy business, you know.
And so I was waking up every daygripped with fear, you know,
fear of even picking up my phoneand seeing how many people
called out sick or how many ofthe jobs got moved around, or,
you know, problems that came inovernight, kind of stuff.
(17:44):
And I didn't realize how muchdamage it was doing to my body.
And I was just going further andfurther into myself.
I didn't know how to communicateit.
I didn't know how to say toGlenn, whoo, feeling lots of
fear today.
You don't, I just I didn't evenknow how to touch it.
I didn't know how to find it.
I didn't know how to listen.
(18:04):
I didn't know how to connectwith the emotion in my brain.
And so it took a minute.
And thankfully, because Glennwas doing the work he was doing,
he always calls me his It was avery difficult case study.
Case study that, you know, someof the tools that we have today
and we still use, like the coreemotion wheel, came out of that
(18:25):
because I needed somethingreally fast and I needed a tool,
I needed help to get to myemotion every day, all day long.
I needed a visual, I neededsomething I could just quickly
go to and be like, okay, what'shappening in my fear region?
SPEAKER_03 (18:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
And I I was like, I would, you know, now I'm real
fast, but man, in the earlydays, I would be like, okay,
give me just a second here.
What's happening in my fearregion?
But then as I began to findmyself, it was incredible to be
able to share it with others andto be able to be in a safe place
where people weren't trying tofix me or correct me.
(19:02):
That was so huge.
Because for me to be able tosay, Oh, I feel fear, you know,
I have to call Mr.
Jones in a minute.
People weren't going, don't befearful.
I mean, he's not gonna beanything but grateful.
You know, I didn't have thosepeople around me.
Thankfully, I had people thatwere going, Oh man, I I hear
you, I hear that fear, you know.
(19:23):
What what do you need?
And I felt so supported insteadof judged, which was incredibly
helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Yeah.
And and frequently, and it'sfrom a good intention, but we
faith-based people are horribleabout it.
We constantly tell people, don'texperience what you experience.
It's a gentle, subtle way ofsaying, shut up.
Stop experiencing what you'reexperiencing and shut up about
it.
And of course, we don't saythose words.
We're like, Well, no, I don'tsay that.
Well, that's the message thatwe're giving.
(19:52):
We're going, what, fellas, don'tchoose faith, not fear.
Well, fellas isn't choosingfear.
That's she's that doesn't makeany sense.
Nobody's that dumb.
Nobody gets up in the morningand it's like, what am I going
to choose today?
I think I'll choose fear.
I'll live in fear all day.
Nobody does that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
I've never met that person.
You created this core emotionwheel as a way of sharing our
emotions, processing them, andconnecting.
I'm gathering that that restoresa sense of identity with each
other when we do that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yeah.
All of us want to be seen andheard.
Every human on the planet wantsto be seen and heard.
And when I'm able to present myauthentic, vulnerable self and
she's able to be present andsafe with me.
Yeah, I mean, it's justindescribable.
That that's what we all want.
That's what we wanted when wewere 12 months old.
We just wanted somebody to tuneinto us.
And we we older babies want theexact same thing.
(20:43):
We just had a whole bunch morebirthdays, but that coding
inside of us never changed.
So should we try it out?
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
That'd be amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
I mean, you've done it thousands of times, but let's
model the core emotion wheel.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yeah.
So the whole goal here, there'seight core emotions, and the
research, we can go into allthat boring part, but the
research shows there's justeight of them.
Every other emotion is a levelof or a hybrid of these core
emotions.
And so when we get to the core,the authentic, real, vulnerable
self, that's our goal righthere.
So there's a two minutes, youcan time us if you want.
It should take us two minutes orless each.
(21:18):
Who's going first?
SPEAKER_04 (21:19):
I'll go first.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (21:21):
Let's see.
Felt a lot of guilt onWednesday, just not hearing you,
not slowing down with you, andjust hearing the pain that you
were experiencing.
Shame in that, too, that Imissed so badly with you, and it
affected so much of the day.
Just core level anger thatprojects are we're so
(21:45):
short-staffed that so much getspiled on you, and also on Tira,
and so just gotta make somechanges there.
So this kind of stuff doesn'thappen last minute.
Let's see, I would say hurt.
I did experience hurt as wellbecause it knocked us off course
(22:06):
so badly, and I just kind of gotsucked into my own pain in it,
my own hurt.
Let's see, yesterday, sad sayinggoodbye to the staff because
we're going to Europe for fiveweeks.
So yeah, they were all sad, andthen it just kind of hit me too.
And I think even with our kidsand grandkids saying goodbye to
them this weekend, I know I'malready projecting just some
(22:29):
sad, but tons of joy that we'regetting to go to Europe and that
we're getting to teachconnection codes all over
Europe.
So much joy.
But yeah, some fear being out ofthe country for that long and
getting on and off planes andtrains and automobiles.
So and sleeping in many, manydifferent beds.
(22:51):
Little fear there.
Lonely.
I do feel the lonely in travelthat I'm the one who keeps up
and makes all the decisions onwhere we're going and how we're
getting there and where we'resleeping.
So I do feel just some lonely inthat.
And I think I got one.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
Wow.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Yeah, for me, yeah, a good bitof fear.
This is the longest tour we'veever done.
And I think it's gonna beamazing.
I feel a lot of joy about it,but some fear because we don't
know what each situation, youknow.
Are we gonna be sharing abedroom with our hosts or you
know, maybe sleeping at the footof their bed?
We don't know.
(23:30):
I hope not.
But just having to readjust toyou know, situation after
situation after situation.
Yeah.
And even with the packing, Ifelt some fear like we gotta
carry all this luggage aroundwith us, so we're pretty
limited.
Uh but again, tons of joy.
This is gonna be a wild, crazyadventure, and I love it that I
get it to do with you.
It's just uh amazing.
(23:52):
Uh there's some shame in that.
You know, I feel highmaintenance at times, just that
my my stuff, you know, justtrying to do things, you know,
in one small suitcase, narroweverything down.
A lot of guilt about Wednesday,just missed so badly uh with
you.
Uh there's a lot of hurt inthat.
Sad and lonely.
(24:13):
You know, I knew I had to getthis stuff done, which we did.
We got it done, and yesterdaywas really, really successful.
There's a ton of joy in that,but it was it was a tough route
getting there.
A lot of anger.
I love your anger, just that wewe're we gotta get we gotta
shift in this.
This is too much.
And I feel really driven tookay, come on, people.
(24:34):
We're smart enough to figurethis out and hire some people to
get the help that we need.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
All eight emotions.
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
That was all eight.
SPEAKER_00 (24:43):
I think it was.
Let's talk about what justhappened there.
SPEAKER_04 (24:47):
What does that mean?
Ask away.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Here are some observations I made.
One is that you all focused onsharing feelings, not judging
you what you're experiencing orjudging the other person in any
way.
It seemed like you had some safeboundaries about the way that
you shared.
And then I also noticed a lot ofnonverbal signals from the
(25:11):
person who was listening.
You're even doing it now, theand yeah, and and maybe even
some safe touch as well, inorder to not just have the
sharing plop on the otherperson, but feel a sense of
being received, seen and heard.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, and that's some of the connection codes
tools, is what we call the oohor what you're referencing as
far as we call it audiblelistening, which sounds like an
oxymoron, but where I'm audible,what the research showed was if
I'm silent, I could be listeningto every word she's saying,
totally tuned into her.
But if I'm silent, typically itwould tickle the pain center of
her brain.
(25:51):
It becomes a lonely experience.
Uh and we were in Mexico Cityrecently, and our translator, I
just thought it was brilliant.
And as he's translating it intoSpanish, he said, think about
being on a telephone.
And he said, if you're talkingto somebody on the phone, if
they're silent for about 20seconds, you can't stand it.
And you're like, are are youstill there?
(26:11):
Hello?
Can you are you did you know,because you think the call got
dropped?
Well, the same thing ishappening that if I'm not
audible with Phyllis, about 15,20 seconds in, she's like, I
know you're here geographically.
Are you here with me?
You know, or are we uh together?
And even as we're talking, youknow, Drew, you you ooh us.
(26:32):
You you are audible.
Well, that just lights us up.
And and and we're just human,it's just like everybody else.
And if you were silent the wholetime we're talking, at some
point I'd be like, I think hechecked out.
I think he's thinking about whathe's gonna do this afternoon, or
he wants to go skiing orsomething.
I don't know.
And we learned that from anumber of sources.
The still-face experiments withDr.
(26:52):
Edronic from way back in the1970s was a big part of that.
So all of the rules, theguidelines, or the connection
codes are very, veryresearch-based, and they're on
purpose.
They're not just random ideas wethought of around a campfire one
weekend.
We researched it for years andyears to figure out what makes
this work.
And even you know, the wholesharing of emotion.
(27:14):
Emotions happen to you.
Phyllis is not trying to feelfear.
She's not trying to fear, feelguilt.
She's not trying to feel shame.
She just does.
So I can tell her not to.
I can tell her she's wrong andstupid, which again, that's the
message we convey to people.
We don't say those words.
But I'm like, what, Drew?
No, man, don't feel fear aboutthat.
You're wrong to feel fear.
(27:36):
And Drew's like, well, but I dofeel fear.
And I'm like, well, just don't,just stop it.
Because now I'm telling him he'sstupid.
Drew, you're just stupid to feelfear.
And so Drew walks away going,Okay, I guess I won't be sharing
with Glenn anymore because hetold me I was wrong and stupid,
and that didn't help me.
SPEAKER_04 (27:54):
I think we also have our uh phrases that we use, you
know, like if you're sharingwith a friend who will feel a
lot of fear about finances, ohbrother, God's got you.
He's gonna provide, it's gonnajust come in.
You just wait and see.
Well, what that actually thatsounds great, except it really
shut you down and it actuallyjust reactivated your fear.
(28:17):
It doesn't help at all.
It doesn't help.
And I mean, if you were hookedup to a brain scan and these
people would come into the roomand you would say the exact same
thing.
I feel fear about finances,depending on how they responded,
you could watch the brain scan.
So it's like, wow, that words ofencouragement actually just
(28:38):
reactivated the fear and itspiked higher.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
But it's from a good intention, that's the problem.
Right.
Because the person's not tryingto harm you, the person's
actually trying to help you.
We say it's a good intention,it's a bad application.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Because it seems to make so oh man, I'll pray for
you.
You know, God's got you, Drew.
And that sounds good to me.
I just helped Drew.
I actually hurt him, I made itworse.
And we don't realize that that'swhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_04 (29:02):
And we do this in our closest relationship.
I just was saying a friend.
Yeah, but if you're married,this happens all the time where
your spouse shares something,and so quickly they learn.
Like if you shut them down, evenwith words of encouragement,
they then go back intothemselves.
They're like, I'm not gonnashare it next time.
(29:22):
I'm not gonna share when I feelfear about our finances.
I'm just gonna keep it to myselfbecause when I share it, you
shut me down with you knowscripture, even like something
that you go, but that's a goodthing, right?
And it's like, well, no, not inthat moment.
That wasn't the experience theyneeded.
They needed the space to be ableto say, just like what we just
(29:45):
demonstrated, we didn't makethat up.
That actually happened onWednesday.
We didn't write that out, youknow.
That our disconnect onWednesday, we're sharing with
you and your audience.
Like that happened, that's real.
And it was really painful.
And And disconnect is verypainful.
And we just want to shortenshorten the time when it
(30:06):
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
What was it like for you to uh share with each other
even for two minutes?
SPEAKER_04 (30:13):
For me, it's very healing because I feel heard by
him.
What knocked us off course weremy first words.
But then for him to also makespace that I in the I felt hurt
as the day went on.
Like I felt pain.
You know, you we could sit hereand talk about all the logistics
and prove that it really wasn'tthat bad.
(30:35):
That does not connect.
Logistics don't connect.
And I think in most marriages,you're going into a courtroom
proving I never said it likethat.
I never even said those words.
But the other, that never helps.
It just never does.
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
Yeah, but I would suggest that, and I get what
you're saying, but I wouldsuggest that what knocked us off
course was my hurt and shamethat I experienced because she
could have said those exact samewords to someone else, or maybe
in some other setting to me.
And I wouldn't have felt hurtand shame.
But in that setting, I did.
(31:12):
And we forgot the connectioncodes.
You could have called us, Drew,and reminded us of the
connection codes, that wouldhave been helpful.
And yeah, we're just pilgrims onthe journey.
We're just like everybody else.
When we use the connection codestools, we connect.
When we don't, we don't.
We don't get a free pass justbecause we wrote a book about
it, which I feel like we should,but we don't.
Because we're just humans.
And when we use the tools, thepoint is, you know, if you're
(31:33):
whatever, if you're a carpenterand you pick up a brick or a
rock and start trying to drive anail with it, I don't care how
long you've been a carpenter.
It doesn't work.
And I'm like, Drew, dude, here,use this hammer.
And Drew's like, oh yeah, Iforgot.
And then I give you a nail gunand you're like, phew, that
works.
I remember I was a contractorfor many years.
(31:54):
And I remember when I bought myfirst nail gun, and I felt like
I was cheating.
I was hoping God didn't noticebecause it felt illegal.
It's like, oh my word, we can doin 10 minutes what it used to
take us an hour and a half todo.
My gosh, this is this has got tobe illegal, you know.
It's at least unethical.
And that's what the connectioncode tools are.
They're cheat codes, which isthe human condition, is what
(32:16):
we're supposed to do.
This is what we do with babies.
We walk in the room and we'reimmediately audible with them.
We go, oh, hey, buddy.
We're not saying anything.
We're just audible.
We're not conveying anyinformation.
Well, that's what the babyneeds.
And I've done this research withall 12 of my grandkids.
Walk into a room of the baby andbe silent.
Just stare at them and watchwhat happens.
(32:37):
It's not very long, 30 secondsor less.
They get lit up and they getactivated and they're like, what
are you doing?
It's like, what?
Drew's standing right there.
Yeah, but he's silent.
And when he's silent, this babydoesn't know what to do.
And again, we're just olderbabies who had a whole bunch
more birthdays.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
That makes a lot of sense.
This core emotion wheel is afree resource that you can get
at the Connection Codes website.
Something you teach, somethingyou use every day.
We use similar tools that has amaterial.
Although I feel like narrowingit down to eight probably makes
it a lot easier than the feelingwheel, which has hundreds or
(33:16):
absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (33:17):
I was gonna say, will you do the wheel with us?
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
I'll do the wheel.
SPEAKER_04 (33:21):
All right.
We would love that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
So right now I'm feeling some fear about all the
podcast episodes where I'mtrying hard to not talk and not
interrupt the person and notreally emotionally conveying my
presence or kindness.
So there's that.
(33:45):
I think some guilt about thattoo.
I don't really feel shame aboutit.
I do feel some shame, perhapsabout not being as familiar with
your work as I would like to be,and still interviewing you.
I feel joy at what you'resharing and how well it fits
(34:09):
with what I've been learningabout attunement and sitting
with myself and others in thedirt and the mess and the stuck
places.
I feel sadness for how many ofus grew up with our emotions cut
(34:35):
off and interrupted, oftentimesin very loving Christian homes
and zero emotional connection.
It's tragic.
I feel sad about how ouremotions often get sexualized
(34:59):
when we don't have a safe placeto share them or process them.
I feel sadness about how my ownunprocessed emotions sometimes
will hurt myself and others.
And I'm probably forgetting one.
(35:19):
Do I feel anger?
I don't feel anger right now.
When's the last time you feltanger?
Probably yesterday at the IRS.
Oh, how many hours I've spent onhold trying to talk with them.
And just some of the obstaclesthat that continue to come up
(35:40):
while running a ministry or abusiness can be frustrating.
I also feel very seen and heard,even just by your responses,
which is lovely.
SPEAKER_04 (35:48):
What about lonely?
Did you mention lonely?
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Lonely exists right now, and I think I'm gonna talk
about it somewhere else.
SPEAKER_04 (35:58):
You know, for your audience, lonely is a tough one
because sometimes we think it'sonly connected to time with
humans, but really to redefinelonely, it's it's when you feel
unsupported.
And so it's like what I wassharing.
I experienced lonely in ourtravel because I'm really good
(36:19):
at the details and connectingwith all the hosts.
It's kind of like in mywheelhouse, but it's still
lonely.
And then Glenn expressed lonelybecause he's the writer.
He's the one when we have to dofilming, he's the one who has to
check all the scripts and he hadto rewrite them.
So it's when you feel thatunsupported kind of like, where
(36:43):
are my where's where are mypeople?
You know, who's who's partneringwith me to get this project
done?
Because sometimes I think we uhwe misunderstand lonely and we
think that the only kind of howwhat do I need?
Oh, I just need to go be withpeople.
Like I need to go to a bar andsit and meet somebody.
I need to, I feel lonely, so I'mgoing to go to this thing
(37:05):
instead of wait a minute, whatwhat dig deeper, like go deeper
into lonely.
What's happening for you andlonely?
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:13):
And I think that we miss that with each other often
is we don't fully understandlonely.
SPEAKER_01 (37:18):
Yeah, and you can feel lonely in a crowd of a
hundred people.
Uh and getting back to the wholepornography thing, a tremendous
amount of porn is driven byloneliness.
The person doesn't feelconnected, doesn't feel you know
bonded with anybody.
And so porn's an easy out.
SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
Do that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:36):
Again, it's artificial, it's a hoax, it's
not real, but it's a scam.
But the psyche doesn't know thatin the moment.
And so it feels very connecting,like, oh my gosh, look, these
are my people.
Again, it's not real, it's nottrue.
It's just a big hoax.
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
And when I did a survey the other day about what
emotion is most likely to promptsomeone to use porn, over 50% of
people in our communitymentioned that that was the
primary driver.
SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
Yeah, and that's one of the things that we present in
our master classes is because westart with what we call
foundations, which is thefoundations of the connection
codes, and because we're goingto build on top of that.
And then we build dynamic sexualconnection on top of that.
Because once people are able toconvey this, for me to be able
to convey to Phyllis that I'vefelt a lot of sexual loneliness
(38:27):
today, because you know, you'vebeen busy, I've been busy, and I
just don't feel connected withyou sexually.
That's a very, very differentconversation than me saying, so
you want to do it tonight?
Which is the way the vastmajority of couples, or for me
even to say, you know, well,well, obviously you're too busy
for me, uh, you know, andapparently you're not attracted
(38:48):
to me anymore.
Well, those are just attacks,and now we're going to war.
There's no that's a no-winsituation.
There's no way Phyllis has anywinnable option in her response.
Whereas if a guy, I can just goagain, I'm not even blaming her
that I feel sexual loneliness.
I'm just telling her I do.
And she's my one unique sexualpartner.
So it is connected to her, butI'm not blaming her uh for it.
(39:11):
I'm just telling her this iswhat I'm experiencing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
That's a great reframe.
I'm excited to connect morepeople with your resources.
And if you all want to learnmore about Glenn and Phyllis and
the connection codes, you can godown to the links in the show
notes.
What is your favorite thingabout Freedom from Porn?
SPEAKER_01 (39:32):
Just the reality of actually having dynamic sexual
connection.
Uh, it's a lot more fun, andI've heard lots of people
present this.
I've rarely known people thatactually experience it and live
it.
But porn is pretty mundanebecause it's a computer screen.
So, and again, I'm not sayingthat there's not an allurement
(39:54):
to it, but it's not nearly asfun.
I mean, a tiny, tiny fraction ofthe fun that dynamic sexual
connection is.
But of course, the reality ismost people don't think that's
even possible.
We did not think it waspossible.
We've spent decades notexperiencing that.
So it's not that we didn't havesexual activity, but we did, and
(40:15):
I'm not saying there wasn't evenpleasure in the sexual activity,
but there wasn't sexualconnection.
And it's not even freedom fromporn, it's freedom to have
dynamic sexual connection.
SPEAKER_04 (40:26):
Porn is such a sh fast, short dopamine hit, and
then it's over, and then it'slike the guilt rushes in and the
shame rushes in, and you know,to be free from that, but to be
able to experience incrediblesexual connection, yeah, like it
lasts, the pleasure lasts, it'safterwards, it's like the the
(40:48):
safety, the glow, you know, allthe things like the cuddle time
that porn never produces.
SPEAKER_01 (40:56):
And that's something that fascinates me.
And I'm a sexologist, that's myPhD work, so I study this all
the time, and I'm so intrigued.
There aren't a whole lot ofthings in life that you can do
endlessly, and they becomebetter and better and better.
Dynamic sexual connection.
Again, for a lot of youraudience, probably they don't
even know what I'm talking aboutbecause sex to them means, you
(41:16):
know, whatever, once a week,twice a week, three times a
week, they stick tab A into slotB.
She feels violated, he feelskind of that she's not even
present because she isn'tpresent, she disassociated.
And so it's like, well, we didthe sex thing, there was
dopamine involved, but there'snot really any bonding, there's
not really any sexualconnection.
So it just amazes me.
(41:37):
I'm 63.
Phyllis can say however old shewants to say she's but just a
little younger.
I I'm just startled that thiscan be this dynamic and
continually get more dynamic.
And you know, I can't run asfast as I ran when I was 18, but
the the dynamic nature of thesexual connection is just we're
(41:58):
we're way past any superlatives.
There's just nothing to sayanymore.
And that startles me because Iwould think, because we've been
together 47 years, we've beenmarried 43 years.
I would think by now it would bepretty mundane and pretty
boring.
And the opposite is true.
And I think it reflects thegenius of God, but even if
somebody didn't believe there'sa God, it's still very real and
(42:22):
doable and fun.
SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
That's the way it's supposed to be.
It's really inspiring for me towitness you in that place.
And I hope to get there one day.
I hope many of us experiencemore and more freedom, more and
more healing, and the way itcomes is through connection.
Thank you for your role inspreading this message.
SPEAKER_04 (42:41):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
So, everyone, you can go down to the description
to learn more about Glenn andPhyllis and go to the links, go
to their website,connectioncodes.co, and always
remember you are God's belovedson, and you, he is well
pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart, and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa, and I'mhere to show you how.
Let's go.
Hey man, thank you so much forlistening to my episode with
(00:22):
Glenn and Phyllis Hill.
They are so incredible.
They are the authors of theConnection Codes, the blueprint
and tools for creating therelationships you crave.
And I really think this can be agame changer for many of you,
especially in the context ofcouples.
We have all experienceddisconnection.
(00:43):
And many of you are familiarwith the idea that the opposite
of addiction is not sobriety,it's connection.
But what is connection?
What causes disconnection andhow can we reconnect with
ourselves, with each other?
How do we process emotions andmeet the unmet needs underneath?
In this episode, you will hearGlenn and Phyllis tell their
(01:04):
incredible story.
They'll share more of thescience of connection and
demonstrate what it looks liketo use a core emotion wheel to
connect.
Enjoy the episode.
I am so thrilled to beintroducing you all to Dr.
Glenn Hill and Phyllis Hill.
Actually, some of you probablyalready know them because I've
heard from multiple people thatwe need to invite Glenn and
(01:26):
Phyllis.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
What an honor.
Yes.
We hear a lot about yourcommunity and about you
specifically, Drew.
And so we're thrilled to be heretoday, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
Yeah, it's good.
Why are you so passionate aboutconnection?
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Because when you live without it, it sucks.
What we do now, as far aspresenting the connection codes,
is born out of our pain.
We've celebrated our 43rdanniversary a few weeks ago, but
we've been married probablyabout 12 years.
And we missed each other so bad.
Because if marriage is about arelationship, well, then the
(02:06):
loss of that relationship, Idon't know what you want to call
it, but it's not marriage.
So we were, and we've alwayscared about each other since the
day I met her.
We've, you know, we've matteredeach other.
We just didn't have any toolsand we had no idea how to
connect deeply.
So to live in that disconnectionday after day after week, after
month, after year, after year,after decade, is pretty intense
(02:26):
and pretty brutal.
And we realize that our researchsays about 91% of people
self-report, this is not myobservation or my criticism,
they self-report that theirmarriage is unsuccessful.
That's pretty bad, pretty badsuccess rate.
So we're just on a mission tochange this because we know what
(02:46):
the pain is.
SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
Well, and what disconnection leads to, right?
So not being connected, like notbeing connected to yourself, not
being connected to other humans,it it's a very destructive path.
And I and I think that if youlook back, you go, yeah, when I
was 12, my goals were not todestroy my life.
That was not my goals.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
And never met that person.
SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
Yeah.
And so it's it's kind of theidea of how did how did we get
here?
And for us, like in ourmarriage, we thought we had all
the right ingredients.
And we, you know, we met at aBible camp, we loved God, we
poured into scripture together,like we loved reading the word
together, we loved prayingtogether, we, of course, did
(03:30):
ministry together, churchtogether.
So it's like we thought we hadall the right ingredients.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
And that's what everybody said.
Yeah.
And we didn't believe what wedid.
SPEAKER_04 (03:39):
Like we followed all the rules to have the perfect
outcome.
And then when we didn't, rightaway, it was almost shocking.
Like this was a lie.
This was what in the worldhappened?
You know, you feel you kind ofjust feel almost this shell
shock of this was never supposedto turn out this way.
(04:00):
And then, you know, the paincomes in, the pain sets in, and
it's the the disillusionment,and there's so much pain in
that, and then you start makingreally bad choices, trying to
find peace, trying to findhappiness, trying to find
connection somewhere out there.
And, you know, I think that foryears we would still always come
(04:23):
back to each other, as in Istill want you and you still
want me, but we just didn'tknow.
And, you know, now, all theseyears later, and all the work
that we do with connection, it'sreally phenomenal to see how
destructive it is when we aren'tconnected.
There's so many things we can beinvolved in and be busy with,
(04:46):
even a job.
And you go, yeah, but nobodyreally knows me here.
And so we're not deeplyconnected with other humans, and
that leads to a tremendousamount of loneliness.
And then in that loneliness, wechoose all kinds of things to
make that go away, make thatfeel better.
And that's what we found.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
Yeah, and for us, it basically we went and bought a
brand new car.
We got home with it, the brakesdidn't work, the steering wheel
didn't work, the seat just keptwobbling, it wasn't buckled
down.
You know, most of the time thecar wouldn't even start.
That was our marriage.
And we're like, wait, this is abrand new car.
It's supposed to go somewhere,and it's the steering wheel is
(05:28):
supposed to work.
It's like, well, you know, Imean, and we were always just
oh, well, marriage is hard.
Marriage is hard work.
And I remember on my weddingday, that was not part of our
vows.
We're not like this is gonna behard work, you know.
We were excited about HappilyEver After, and literally 48
hours later, we were like, oh mygosh, what happened?
(05:48):
But we didn't know, we didn'tunderstand, and you know, we
didn't know if it was gonna lastfor a day or two days or a week
or a month, that this pain thatwe were experiencing.
Of course, we had no idea it wasgonna last over a quarter of a
century.
That's a long time.
We I was 20 years old, I didn'tknow how long a quarter of a
century was.
If you told me on my weddingday, hey dude, buckle up, it's
(06:09):
gonna be a quarter of a centuryof misery.
I'd be like, wait, what?
You're the worst weddingattendant ever.
Uh who invited you?
But that was true.
But we didn't know, we had noidea.
And it again took a long timefor us to get a clue.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
And that feeling of disillusionment and
disconnection is what so manypeople feel when their marriage
falls apart due to porn.
Yeah.
It's a crisis of disconnection,and I can't think of a better
lifeline than the connectioncodes.
(06:46):
We've talked about howdisconnection creates the setup
for so many unhealthy choices inaddiction, and and it's often
what many of us experience everysingle day.
I love how you're taking brainscience and making it more
understandable.
So, from a neuroscientificconnection codes perspective,
(07:10):
what causes this connection?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
Well, that's a a long story, or I can try to make
it concise.
It's an identity issue and it'semotion.
SPEAKER_04 (07:19):
Even that terminology, I think, is is
confusing for faith-based peoplebecause they only have heard
this with identity in Christ.
So when we talk about identity,we're not questioning your
identity with Christ.
We're talking about the identitywith each other.
So the loss of identity meansthat I don't feel that I have
value or that I exist or that Imatter.
(07:44):
There's moments where we canhave a loss of identity.
And Glenn and I had one of thoseon Wednesday where we had a big
project come in.
We didn't know it was coming in,but we had to do it that day.
Really, it meant Glenn had to doit that day.
And he immediately felt a painin it.
I did not recognize his pain.
(08:06):
And I made just a very smallcomment, like, oh, we can just
we can just knock this outreally quick.
Well, for him, that was such ala loss of identity for him
instantly.
It felt like a stab, like thisis not quick.
He knew it wasn't quick.
He knew he had to rewrite thescript, the whole thing had to
(08:28):
be re rewritten that day forfilming the next day.
So his loss in that identity, hecrashed in that moment.
Like he felt like I don't existto you, I don't have value to
you, I'm never good enough.
And it wasn't my experience,right?
I didn't experience it that way.
(08:49):
I'm just like, okay, we got toget it done, let's knock it out.
Because I'm I'm a verytask-oriented person.
And it didn't strike me thatway.
But I didn't slow down with him.
I didn't try to hear hisexperience.
And so for him, it was animmediate loss of identity,
which is like I can't getoxygen.
(09:12):
Like that's how we describe it.
Like when you lose identity,it's like you can't get to
oxygen fast enough.
And in our relationship, you go,oh wow, how often does that
happen?
You know, sometimes it's yourfamily of origin.
Every time you go back home,grandma makes some horrible
off-the-wall comment and youlose identity.
You know, your parents stilltreat you like you're 10 years
(09:34):
old and they don't recognizethis man that's in front of them
and all the achievements.
And so there's this loss ofidentity.
And it's like you can hardlybreathe when you go back home,
and you're like, what's wrongwith me?
Well, it's that loss ofidentity.
So when there's a loss ofidentity, you kind of go, okay,
what do we do with that?
And it's it's the connection,right?
(09:56):
We lost connection on Wednesday.
So we had to find each otheragain.
He had to express the emotion,like the pain he felt.
And I had to sit in that andmake room for that and hear
that.
So that means I had to slowdown, not just defend, but I had
to slow down with him.
And you know, it's interesting.
I know, Drew, you do a lot ofwork with pornography.
(10:18):
We talk about this a lot.
We, of course, hear thesestories a lot, and just for many
men, it started in teenageyears.
And there's a lack ofconnection.
All of a sudden, they'reentering puberty and they don't
feel connected any longer totheir dad, to their mom, to
(10:39):
their siblings.
It's like they're going throughsomething within their bodies
all alone and they don't knowhow to talk about it, and
nobody's talking to them.
And so there's some hugedisconnection that happens
really young, and then theybring that into their adult life
and into their marriage often,that horrible disconnect that
(11:00):
they felt at a young age.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
It could be the loss of identity with other boys, it
could be the loss of identitywith girls.
And at home, maybe feeling likeI don't matter, I'm all alone.
Who cares about me except porn?
SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
Yeah, and that's something we uh always present,
and it's not just porn, but itcan be many things.
It can be alcohol, substances,whatever.
But those are actually thesolution.
We're not saying they're a goodsolution, but they're the
solution.
They're not the cause.
And loneliness is often thecause or fear.
You know, we use terms likestress and overwhelm, but those
(11:41):
are result words.
They are emotion words, butthey're actually the result of
unprocessed emotion.
And uh I always say that the Jayboys are the most reliable
friends you'll ever have (11:50):
Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, and Johnny
Walker.
You can depend on them.
You you know that you can trustthem.
You know, now they don't takeyou where you actually want to
be, but they're safe in themoment.
They're a very short-term,immediate comfort.
And so people turn to that.
I'm not voting for it, I'm notsaying it's a good solution.
(12:11):
Well, the same is true withpornography.
Now, pornography is a is a hoax,it's a big scam because it's a
computer screen.
In my day it was magazines, butyou know, it's a computer
screen.
Well, that's not real, but ourpsyche kind of doesn't know
that.
You know, if you if you met thiswoman that's on the screen in a
coffee shop, she wouldn't eventalk to you.
(12:32):
But our psyche doesn't know thatbecause what it looks like is
she's saying, Hey, I'm safe foryou.
You can trust me.
I, you know what?
You're we're so connected, I'lleven take my clothes off in
front of you.
I'll even do sexual stuff infront of you.
Well, the individual who'sfeeling so much loneliness is
like, oh wow, so this, you know,Bambi is my friend.
You know, she obviously caresabout me and she doesn't.
(12:55):
It's a hoax, but it feels likeshe does.
And that's the great appealthere, especially if the
individual, male or female, buttypically the male, doesn't know
how to connect deeply.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
So if porn is a sexualized solution for
unprocessed emotions, then whatcreates real connection?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Authenticity and vulnerability.
We're born doing this reallywell.
Every 12-month-old on theplanet, assuming they're not in
some catastrophic scenario,knows how to connect deeply.
We're born this way.
Uh, we have 12 grandchildren.
My grandchildren are superior tomost uh grandchildren, but
whatever.
But they're just humans.
(13:41):
Kidding.
But they know how to connect.
And you watch people out inpublic, you know, go to a mall
and everybody's drawn to thebabies.
You know, you see somebodystrolling along with a little
baby, and everybody's like, ohmy gosh, look how cute.
And that baby, if the individualfeels safe to them, will tune in
and they have this bondingmoment.
Well, that's because the babydoesn't know any differently.
And somewhere along the way,unfortunately for most of us, we
(14:03):
lose that.
We we we get lost from ourselvesand we don't present ourselves
authentically and vulnerably.
I broke my arm when I was fiveyears old.
I never told anybody because Iknew I wasn't allowed to.
It was three days later mymother realized I didn't use my
right arm anymore because Icouldn't.
I couldn't move it.
Again, I'm not mad at myparents, but I'm like, what is
(14:24):
happening in a household where afive-year-old breaks his arm and
doesn't say ow?
That's weird.
Something funky's happeninghere.
Well, there's not safety.
He has been told you stopexperiencing what you're
experiencing and you shut upabout it.
And they didn't say those words,but that's the message that was
given.
That's certainly the messagethat I received.
So I learned just don't sayanything.
(14:46):
You break your arm, well, toobad.
You don't say anything.
So as that continues, five yearsold, eight years old, 12, 15,
18, 20, that person, me beingthat person, just doesn't know
how to convey authentic andvulnerably.
But I did when I was born.
I did when I was six months old,I did when I was 12 months old,
but fairly early in life Ilearned not to.
(15:07):
And that's her story too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Authenticity and vulnerability are essential for
connection.
If we don't have those,connection's impossible.
Right.
Yeah.
And yet really being vulnerableis absolutely terrifying.
I'm thinking about the guys whohave sexual secrets that they've
(15:30):
never told anyone before.
And I'm also thinking about someof the wives listening who have
been hurt and deceived andbetrayed, and who have their own
reasons to not be vulnerable.
It seems like feeling safe is soimportant, and yet vulnerability
(15:54):
often feels unsafe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Yeah.
That's the connection codesprotocol is I don't want to be
vulnerable with you until I knowyou're safe, but I'll never know
if you're safe until I'mvulnerable.
So we're stuck.
We're at an impasse, andsomebody has to take a risk.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Phyllis, I remember you talking about how you didn't
realize fear was driving you asan adult, too.
SPEAKER_04 (16:15):
Yeah.
Well, I just didn't understandemotion.
So I very, you know, commonlywould say Glenn has enough
emotions for both of us.
I don't do emotions.
And I didn't say it in a jokingway, I really genuinely believed
it.
And which is just falseinformation.
That's not science, that's nothow our bodies work.
(16:37):
And we all have emotion, it'shoused in our brain.
We have five regions of ourbrain that house emotions.
And I think even as uh just inour Christian faith, we are
really mistaught.
We believe we can choose, youchoose joy, you choose emotions.
And so it's like, that's notscience, that's not how it
(16:58):
works.
Your brain fires emotions.
And so then I started looking atall the emotions, fear being one
of them.
And I very quickly said, Oh no,no, I'm not afraid of anything.
And then he broke down Glennwith his words, his research,
brought down just what is fear.
And I realized, oh my word, Ihave fear of failure, fear of
(17:21):
rejection, fear of making thewrong decision.
And it was very much tied intomy business, you know.
And so I was waking up every daygripped with fear, you know,
fear of even picking up my phoneand seeing how many people
called out sick or how many ofthe jobs got moved around, or,
you know, problems that came inovernight, kind of stuff.
(17:44):
And I didn't realize how muchdamage it was doing to my body.
And I was just going further andfurther into myself.
I didn't know how to communicateit.
I didn't know how to say toGlenn, whoo, feeling lots of
fear today.
You don't, I just I didn't evenknow how to touch it.
I didn't know how to find it.
I didn't know how to listen.
(18:04):
I didn't know how to connectwith the emotion in my brain.
And so it took a minute.
And thankfully, because Glennwas doing the work he was doing,
he always calls me his It was avery difficult case study.
Case study that, you know, someof the tools that we have today
and we still use, like the coreemotion wheel, came out of that
(18:25):
because I needed somethingreally fast and I needed a tool,
I needed help to get to myemotion every day, all day long.
I needed a visual, I neededsomething I could just quickly
go to and be like, okay, what'shappening in my fear region?
SPEAKER_03 (18:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
And I I was like, I would, you know, now I'm real
fast, but man, in the earlydays, I would be like, okay,
give me just a second here.
What's happening in my fearregion?
But then as I began to findmyself, it was incredible to be
able to share it with others andto be able to be in a safe place
where people weren't trying tofix me or correct me.
(19:02):
That was so huge.
Because for me to be able tosay, Oh, I feel fear, you know,
I have to call Mr.
Jones in a minute.
People weren't going, don't befearful.
I mean, he's not gonna beanything but grateful.
You know, I didn't have thosepeople around me.
Thankfully, I had people thatwere going, Oh man, I I hear
you, I hear that fear, you know.
(19:23):
What what do you need?
And I felt so supported insteadof judged, which was incredibly
helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Yeah.
And and frequently, and it'sfrom a good intention, but we
faith-based people are horribleabout it.
We constantly tell people, don'texperience what you experience.
It's a gentle, subtle way ofsaying, shut up.
Stop experiencing what you'reexperiencing and shut up about
it.
And of course, we don't saythose words.
We're like, Well, no, I don'tsay that.
Well, that's the message thatwe're giving.
(19:52):
We're going, what, fellas, don'tchoose faith, not fear.
Well, fellas isn't choosingfear.
That's she's that doesn't makeany sense.
Nobody's that dumb.
Nobody gets up in the morningand it's like, what am I going
to choose today?
I think I'll choose fear.
I'll live in fear all day.
Nobody does that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
I've never met that person.
You created this core emotionwheel as a way of sharing our
emotions, processing them, andconnecting.
I'm gathering that that restoresa sense of identity with each
other when we do that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yeah.
All of us want to be seen andheard.
Every human on the planet wantsto be seen and heard.
And when I'm able to present myauthentic, vulnerable self and
she's able to be present andsafe with me.
Yeah, I mean, it's justindescribable.
That that's what we all want.
That's what we wanted when wewere 12 months old.
We just wanted somebody to tuneinto us.
And we we older babies want theexact same thing.
(20:43):
We just had a whole bunch morebirthdays, but that coding
inside of us never changed.
So should we try it out?
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
That'd be amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
I mean, you've done it thousands of times, but let's
model the core emotion wheel.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yeah.
So the whole goal here, there'seight core emotions, and the
research, we can go into allthat boring part, but the
research shows there's justeight of them.
Every other emotion is a levelof or a hybrid of these core
emotions.
And so when we get to the core,the authentic, real, vulnerable
self, that's our goal righthere.
So there's a two minutes, youcan time us if you want.
It should take us two minutes orless each.
(21:18):
Who's going first?
SPEAKER_04 (21:19):
I'll go first.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (21:21):
Let's see.
Felt a lot of guilt onWednesday, just not hearing you,
not slowing down with you, andjust hearing the pain that you
were experiencing.
Shame in that, too, that Imissed so badly with you, and it
affected so much of the day.
Just core level anger thatprojects are we're so
(21:45):
short-staffed that so much getspiled on you, and also on Tira,
and so just gotta make somechanges there.
So this kind of stuff doesn'thappen last minute.
Let's see, I would say hurt.
I did experience hurt as wellbecause it knocked us off course
(22:06):
so badly, and I just kind of gotsucked into my own pain in it,
my own hurt.
Let's see, yesterday, sad sayinggoodbye to the staff because
we're going to Europe for fiveweeks.
So yeah, they were all sad, andthen it just kind of hit me too.
And I think even with our kidsand grandkids saying goodbye to
them this weekend, I know I'malready projecting just some
(22:29):
sad, but tons of joy that we'regetting to go to Europe and that
we're getting to teachconnection codes all over
Europe.
So much joy.
But yeah, some fear being out ofthe country for that long and
getting on and off planes andtrains and automobiles.
So and sleeping in many, manydifferent beds.
(22:51):
Little fear there.
Lonely.
I do feel the lonely in travelthat I'm the one who keeps up
and makes all the decisions onwhere we're going and how we're
getting there and where we'resleeping.
So I do feel just some lonely inthat.
And I think I got one.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
Wow.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Yeah, for me, yeah, a good bitof fear.
This is the longest tour we'veever done.
And I think it's gonna beamazing.
I feel a lot of joy about it,but some fear because we don't
know what each situation, youknow.
Are we gonna be sharing abedroom with our hosts or you
know, maybe sleeping at the footof their bed?
We don't know.
(23:30):
I hope not.
But just having to readjust toyou know, situation after
situation after situation.
Yeah.
And even with the packing, Ifelt some fear like we gotta
carry all this luggage aroundwith us, so we're pretty
limited.
Uh but again, tons of joy.
This is gonna be a wild, crazyadventure, and I love it that I
get it to do with you.
It's just uh amazing.
(23:52):
Uh there's some shame in that.
You know, I feel highmaintenance at times, just that
my my stuff, you know, justtrying to do things, you know,
in one small suitcase, narroweverything down.
A lot of guilt about Wednesday,just missed so badly uh with
you.
Uh there's a lot of hurt inthat.
Sad and lonely.
(24:13):
You know, I knew I had to getthis stuff done, which we did.
We got it done, and yesterdaywas really, really successful.
There's a ton of joy in that,but it was it was a tough route
getting there.
A lot of anger.
I love your anger, just that wewe're we gotta get we gotta
shift in this.
This is too much.
And I feel really driven tookay, come on, people.
(24:34):
We're smart enough to figurethis out and hire some people to
get the help that we need.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
All eight emotions.
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
That was all eight.
SPEAKER_00 (24:43):
I think it was.
Let's talk about what justhappened there.
SPEAKER_04 (24:47):
What does that mean?
Ask away.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Here are some observations I made.
One is that you all focused onsharing feelings, not judging
you what you're experiencing orjudging the other person in any
way.
It seemed like you had some safeboundaries about the way that
you shared.
And then I also noticed a lot ofnonverbal signals from the
(25:11):
person who was listening.
You're even doing it now, theand yeah, and and maybe even
some safe touch as well, inorder to not just have the
sharing plop on the otherperson, but feel a sense of
being received, seen and heard.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, and that's some of the connection codes
tools, is what we call the oohor what you're referencing as
far as we call it audiblelistening, which sounds like an
oxymoron, but where I'm audible,what the research showed was if
I'm silent, I could be listeningto every word she's saying,
totally tuned into her.
But if I'm silent, typically itwould tickle the pain center of
her brain.
(25:51):
It becomes a lonely experience.
Uh and we were in Mexico Cityrecently, and our translator, I
just thought it was brilliant.
And as he's translating it intoSpanish, he said, think about
being on a telephone.
And he said, if you're talkingto somebody on the phone, if
they're silent for about 20seconds, you can't stand it.
And you're like, are are youstill there?
(26:11):
Hello?
Can you are you did you know,because you think the call got
dropped?
Well, the same thing ishappening that if I'm not
audible with Phyllis, about 15,20 seconds in, she's like, I
know you're here geographically.
Are you here with me?
You know, or are we uh together?
And even as we're talking, youknow, Drew, you you ooh us.
(26:32):
You you are audible.
Well, that just lights us up.
And and and we're just human,it's just like everybody else.
And if you were silent the wholetime we're talking, at some
point I'd be like, I think hechecked out.
I think he's thinking about whathe's gonna do this afternoon, or
he wants to go skiing orsomething.
I don't know.
And we learned that from anumber of sources.
The still-face experiments withDr.
(26:52):
Edronic from way back in the1970s was a big part of that.
So all of the rules, theguidelines, or the connection
codes are very, veryresearch-based, and they're on
purpose.
They're not just random ideas wethought of around a campfire one
weekend.
We researched it for years andyears to figure out what makes
this work.
And even you know, the wholesharing of emotion.
(27:14):
Emotions happen to you.
Phyllis is not trying to feelfear.
She's not trying to fear, feelguilt.
She's not trying to feel shame.
She just does.
So I can tell her not to.
I can tell her she's wrong andstupid, which again, that's the
message we convey to people.
We don't say those words.
But I'm like, what, Drew?
No, man, don't feel fear aboutthat.
You're wrong to feel fear.
(27:36):
And Drew's like, well, but I dofeel fear.
And I'm like, well, just don't,just stop it.
Because now I'm telling him he'sstupid.
Drew, you're just stupid to feelfear.
And so Drew walks away going,Okay, I guess I won't be sharing
with Glenn anymore because hetold me I was wrong and stupid,
and that didn't help me.
SPEAKER_04 (27:54):
I think we also have our uh phrases that we use, you
know, like if you're sharingwith a friend who will feel a
lot of fear about finances, ohbrother, God's got you.
He's gonna provide, it's gonnajust come in.
You just wait and see.
Well, what that actually thatsounds great, except it really
shut you down and it actuallyjust reactivated your fear.
(28:17):
It doesn't help at all.
It doesn't help.
And I mean, if you were hookedup to a brain scan and these
people would come into the roomand you would say the exact same
thing.
I feel fear about finances,depending on how they responded,
you could watch the brain scan.
So it's like, wow, that words ofencouragement actually just
(28:38):
reactivated the fear and itspiked higher.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
But it's from a good intention, that's the problem.
Right.
Because the person's not tryingto harm you, the person's
actually trying to help you.
We say it's a good intention,it's a bad application.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Because it seems to make so oh man, I'll pray for
you.
You know, God's got you, Drew.
And that sounds good to me.
I just helped Drew.
I actually hurt him, I made itworse.
And we don't realize that that'swhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_04 (29:02):
And we do this in our closest relationship.
I just was saying a friend.
Yeah, but if you're married,this happens all the time where
your spouse shares something,and so quickly they learn.
Like if you shut them down, evenwith words of encouragement,
they then go back intothemselves.
They're like, I'm not gonnashare it next time.
(29:22):
I'm not gonna share when I feelfear about our finances.
I'm just gonna keep it to myselfbecause when I share it, you
shut me down with you knowscripture, even like something
that you go, but that's a goodthing, right?
And it's like, well, no, not inthat moment.
That wasn't the experience theyneeded.
They needed the space to be ableto say, just like what we just
(29:45):
demonstrated, we didn't makethat up.
That actually happened onWednesday.
We didn't write that out, youknow.
That our disconnect onWednesday, we're sharing with
you and your audience.
Like that happened, that's real.
And it was really painful.
And And disconnect is verypainful.
And we just want to shortenshorten the time when it
(30:06):
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
What was it like for you to uh share with each other
even for two minutes?
SPEAKER_04 (30:13):
For me, it's very healing because I feel heard by
him.
What knocked us off course weremy first words.
But then for him to also makespace that I in the I felt hurt
as the day went on.
Like I felt pain.
You know, you we could sit hereand talk about all the logistics
and prove that it really wasn'tthat bad.
(30:35):
That does not connect.
Logistics don't connect.
And I think in most marriages,you're going into a courtroom
proving I never said it likethat.
I never even said those words.
But the other, that never helps.
It just never does.
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
Yeah, but I would suggest that, and I get what
you're saying, but I wouldsuggest that what knocked us off
course was my hurt and shamethat I experienced because she
could have said those exact samewords to someone else, or maybe
in some other setting to me.
And I wouldn't have felt hurtand shame.
But in that setting, I did.
(31:12):
And we forgot the connectioncodes.
You could have called us, Drew,and reminded us of the
connection codes, that wouldhave been helpful.
And yeah, we're just pilgrims onthe journey.
We're just like everybody else.
When we use the connection codestools, we connect.
When we don't, we don't.
We don't get a free pass justbecause we wrote a book about
it, which I feel like we should,but we don't.
Because we're just humans.
And when we use the tools, thepoint is, you know, if you're
(31:33):
whatever, if you're a carpenterand you pick up a brick or a
rock and start trying to drive anail with it, I don't care how
long you've been a carpenter.
It doesn't work.
And I'm like, Drew, dude, here,use this hammer.
And Drew's like, oh yeah, Iforgot.
And then I give you a nail gunand you're like, phew, that
works.
I remember I was a contractorfor many years.
(31:54):
And I remember when I bought myfirst nail gun, and I felt like
I was cheating.
I was hoping God didn't noticebecause it felt illegal.
It's like, oh my word, we can doin 10 minutes what it used to
take us an hour and a half todo.
My gosh, this is this has got tobe illegal, you know.
It's at least unethical.
And that's what the connectioncode tools are.
They're cheat codes, which isthe human condition, is what
(32:16):
we're supposed to do.
This is what we do with babies.
We walk in the room and we'reimmediately audible with them.
We go, oh, hey, buddy.
We're not saying anything.
We're just audible.
We're not conveying anyinformation.
Well, that's what the babyneeds.
And I've done this research withall 12 of my grandkids.
Walk into a room of the baby andbe silent.
Just stare at them and watchwhat happens.
(32:37):
It's not very long, 30 secondsor less.
They get lit up and they getactivated and they're like, what
are you doing?
It's like, what?
Drew's standing right there.
Yeah, but he's silent.
And when he's silent, this babydoesn't know what to do.
And again, we're just olderbabies who had a whole bunch
more birthdays.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
That makes a lot of sense.
This core emotion wheel is afree resource that you can get
at the Connection Codes website.
Something you teach, somethingyou use every day.
We use similar tools that has amaterial.
Although I feel like narrowingit down to eight probably makes
it a lot easier than the feelingwheel, which has hundreds or
(33:16):
absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (33:17):
I was gonna say, will you do the wheel with us?
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
I'll do the wheel.
SPEAKER_04 (33:21):
All right.
We would love that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
So right now I'm feeling some fear about all the
podcast episodes where I'mtrying hard to not talk and not
interrupt the person and notreally emotionally conveying my
presence or kindness.
So there's that.
(33:45):
I think some guilt about thattoo.
I don't really feel shame aboutit.
I do feel some shame, perhapsabout not being as familiar with
your work as I would like to be,and still interviewing you.
I feel joy at what you'resharing and how well it fits
(34:09):
with what I've been learningabout attunement and sitting
with myself and others in thedirt and the mess and the stuck
places.
I feel sadness for how many ofus grew up with our emotions cut
(34:35):
off and interrupted, oftentimesin very loving Christian homes
and zero emotional connection.
It's tragic.
I feel sad about how ouremotions often get sexualized
(34:59):
when we don't have a safe placeto share them or process them.
I feel sadness about how my ownunprocessed emotions sometimes
will hurt myself and others.
And I'm probably forgetting one.
(35:19):
Do I feel anger?
I don't feel anger right now.
When's the last time you feltanger?
Probably yesterday at the IRS.
Oh, how many hours I've spent onhold trying to talk with them.
And just some of the obstaclesthat that continue to come up
(35:40):
while running a ministry or abusiness can be frustrating.
I also feel very seen and heard,even just by your responses,
which is lovely.
SPEAKER_04 (35:48):
What about lonely?
Did you mention lonely?
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Lonely exists right now, and I think I'm gonna talk
about it somewhere else.
SPEAKER_04 (35:58):
You know, for your audience, lonely is a tough one
because sometimes we think it'sonly connected to time with
humans, but really to redefinelonely, it's it's when you feel
unsupported.
And so it's like what I wassharing.
I experienced lonely in ourtravel because I'm really good
(36:19):
at the details and connectingwith all the hosts.
It's kind of like in mywheelhouse, but it's still
lonely.
And then Glenn expressed lonelybecause he's the writer.
He's the one when we have to dofilming, he's the one who has to
check all the scripts and he hadto rewrite them.
So it's when you feel thatunsupported kind of like, where
(36:43):
are my where's where are mypeople?
You know, who's who's partneringwith me to get this project
done?
Because sometimes I think we uhwe misunderstand lonely and we
think that the only kind of howwhat do I need?
Oh, I just need to go be withpeople.
Like I need to go to a bar andsit and meet somebody.
I need to, I feel lonely, so I'mgoing to go to this thing
(37:05):
instead of wait a minute, whatwhat dig deeper, like go deeper
into lonely.
What's happening for you andlonely?
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:13):
And I think that we miss that with each other often
is we don't fully understandlonely.
SPEAKER_01 (37:18):
Yeah, and you can feel lonely in a crowd of a
hundred people.
Uh and getting back to the wholepornography thing, a tremendous
amount of porn is driven byloneliness.
The person doesn't feelconnected, doesn't feel you know
bonded with anybody.
And so porn's an easy out.
SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
Do that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:36):
Again, it's artificial, it's a hoax, it's
not real, but it's a scam.
But the psyche doesn't know thatin the moment.
And so it feels very connecting,like, oh my gosh, look, these
are my people.
Again, it's not real, it's nottrue.
It's just a big hoax.
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
And when I did a survey the other day about what
emotion is most likely to promptsomeone to use porn, over 50% of
people in our communitymentioned that that was the
primary driver.
SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
Yeah, and that's one of the things that we present in
our master classes is because westart with what we call
foundations, which is thefoundations of the connection
codes, and because we're goingto build on top of that.
And then we build dynamic sexualconnection on top of that.
Because once people are able toconvey this, for me to be able
to convey to Phyllis that I'vefelt a lot of sexual loneliness
(38:27):
today, because you know, you'vebeen busy, I've been busy, and I
just don't feel connected withyou sexually.
That's a very, very differentconversation than me saying, so
you want to do it tonight?
Which is the way the vastmajority of couples, or for me
even to say, you know, well,well, obviously you're too busy
for me, uh, you know, andapparently you're not attracted
(38:48):
to me anymore.
Well, those are just attacks,and now we're going to war.
There's no that's a no-winsituation.
There's no way Phyllis has anywinnable option in her response.
Whereas if a guy, I can just goagain, I'm not even blaming her
that I feel sexual loneliness.
I'm just telling her I do.
And she's my one unique sexualpartner.
So it is connected to her, butI'm not blaming her uh for it.
(39:11):
I'm just telling her this iswhat I'm experiencing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
That's a great reframe.
I'm excited to connect morepeople with your resources.
And if you all want to learnmore about Glenn and Phyllis and
the connection codes, you can godown to the links in the show
notes.
What is your favorite thingabout Freedom from Porn?
SPEAKER_01 (39:32):
Just the reality of actually having dynamic sexual
connection.
Uh, it's a lot more fun, andI've heard lots of people
present this.
I've rarely known people thatactually experience it and live
it.
But porn is pretty mundanebecause it's a computer screen.
So, and again, I'm not sayingthat there's not an allurement
(39:54):
to it, but it's not nearly asfun.
I mean, a tiny, tiny fraction ofthe fun that dynamic sexual
connection is.
But of course, the reality ismost people don't think that's
even possible.
We did not think it waspossible.
We've spent decades notexperiencing that.
So it's not that we didn't havesexual activity, but we did, and
(40:15):
I'm not saying there wasn't evenpleasure in the sexual activity,
but there wasn't sexualconnection.
And it's not even freedom fromporn, it's freedom to have
dynamic sexual connection.
SPEAKER_04 (40:26):
Porn is such a sh fast, short dopamine hit, and
then it's over, and then it'slike the guilt rushes in and the
shame rushes in, and you know,to be free from that, but to be
able to experience incrediblesexual connection, yeah, like it
lasts, the pleasure lasts, it'safterwards, it's like the the
(40:48):
safety, the glow, you know, allthe things like the cuddle time
that porn never produces.
SPEAKER_01 (40:56):
And that's something that fascinates me.
And I'm a sexologist, that's myPhD work, so I study this all
the time, and I'm so intrigued.
There aren't a whole lot ofthings in life that you can do
endlessly, and they becomebetter and better and better.
Dynamic sexual connection.
Again, for a lot of youraudience, probably they don't
even know what I'm talking aboutbecause sex to them means, you
(41:16):
know, whatever, once a week,twice a week, three times a
week, they stick tab A into slotB.
She feels violated, he feelskind of that she's not even
present because she isn'tpresent, she disassociated.
And so it's like, well, we didthe sex thing, there was
dopamine involved, but there'snot really any bonding, there's
not really any sexualconnection.
So it just amazes me.
(41:37):
I'm 63.
Phyllis can say however old shewants to say she's but just a
little younger.
I I'm just startled that thiscan be this dynamic and
continually get more dynamic.
And you know, I can't run asfast as I ran when I was 18, but
the the dynamic nature of thesexual connection is just we're
(41:58):
we're way past any superlatives.
There's just nothing to sayanymore.
And that startles me because Iwould think, because we've been
together 47 years, we've beenmarried 43 years.
I would think by now it would bepretty mundane and pretty
boring.
And the opposite is true.
And I think it reflects thegenius of God, but even if
somebody didn't believe there'sa God, it's still very real and
(42:22):
doable and fun.
SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
That's the way it's supposed to be.
It's really inspiring for me towitness you in that place.
And I hope to get there one day.
I hope many of us experiencemore and more freedom, more and
more healing, and the way itcomes is through connection.
Thank you for your role inspreading this message.
SPEAKER_04 (42:41):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
So, everyone, you can go down to the description
to learn more about Glenn andPhyllis and go to the links, go
to their website,connectioncodes.co, and always
remember you are God's belovedson, and you, he is well
pleased.
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