December 1, 2025 • 14 mins
How do you see yourself? Do you ever feel like a villain, like everything is your fault? Do you ever feel like a victim, overwhelmed and powerless to change your life? Do you ever feel like a hero, as if you have to succeed because the whole world is depending on you? Today, we’re talking about how to see yourself accurately and understand yourself better through three lenses: your villain story, your victim story, and your hero story. These categories are inspired by “The Karpman Drama Triangle” by Dr. Stephen B. Karpman. The original drama triangle describes common patterns in dysfunctional relationships. I’ve adapted it for the context of story work for men outgrowing porn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Husband Material Podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart, and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa, and I'mhere to show you how.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Today we are talking about the villain, the victim,
and the hero.
Three ways of viewing yourselfon the journey of outgrowing
porn.
How do you view yourself?
Do you ever feel like a villainas if everything is your fault?
Do you ever feel like a victim,overwhelmed and powerless to
(00:41):
change your life?
Or do you ever feel like a heroas if you have to succeed
because the whole world isdepending on you?
Maybe you felt all of thesethings at different times, which
is why today we're talking abouthow to see yourself accurately
and understand your storythrough these three lenses your
(01:02):
villain story, your victimstory, and your hero story.
These categories are inspired bythe drama triangle created by
Dr.
Stephen B.
Cartman, which describes commonpatterns in dysfunctional
relationships.
The original drama triangleconsists of the persecutor, the
victim, and the rescuer, whichI've adapted into the villain,
(01:23):
the victim, and the hero for thecontext of story work for men
outgrowing porn.
Because I found these threecategories so helpful in how I
view myself and how my clientscan view themselves more
accurately.
In today's episode, you willlearn why you need to see all
three of these stories yourvillain story, your victim
(01:45):
story, and your hero story, andwhat happens when you don't.
You'll also begin to explore howthese stories might connect to
specific sexual fantasies.
And in the end, you'll get apicture of how secure identity
in Christ and authenticcommunity with other men can
change everything.
(02:05):
Let's start with these threestories the villain, the victim,
and the hero.
The villain story is all aboutwhat I have done to harm myself
and others.
It's a story of the mistakesI've made.
A story of my sin, the ways thatI've fallen short, and the mess
(02:27):
that I've made in my life.
The victim story is about whathas been done to me.
It's a story of trauma, wounds,pain, neglect, abandonment,
abuse.
It's a story of injustice.
It's a story of the things thatshouldn't have happened to me
that did happen.
(02:47):
It's a story of the things thatshould have happened for me that
didn't happen.
And one of the most importantparts of being able to
understand ourselves accuratelyis seeing the connection between
our victim story and our villainstory.
And in contrast, the hero storyis about what I've done that's
good, the redemptive actionsI've taken, my accomplishments,
(03:11):
my successes, the things I'mproud of.
Did you know that you have avillain story, a victim story,
and a hero story?
We all experience all three.
All three stories are true, allthree stories are valid, and yet
they are not the truest thingsabout us.
When we overly focus on just oneof these stories, it becomes an
(03:34):
identity and a prison that webecome trapped in.
For example, when you only seeyour villain story, you become
stuck in shame.
You feel like a failure.
And this fuels the cycle ofsexually acting out, believing
that I'm a total failure.
I can't do anything right.
I might as well relapse, mightas well go back to it.
(03:57):
That's what happens when you seeyourself primarily as the
villain.
Some of us primarily seeourselves as the victim.
And when you only see yourvictim story, you get stuck in
pain.
If you feel trapped by whatothers are doing or not doing,
whether it's your spouse or yourfamily or your community, the
(04:21):
victim believes that people willalways let me down.
And there's nothing I can do tochange my situation.
If you see yourself primarily asa victim, you end up feeling
powerless to change anything.
It's a very hopeless place tobe.
On the other hand, if you denyyour villain story and your
(04:43):
victim story and you seeyourself as the hero, you get
stuck in pride.
This is really common for menwho start to gain momentum
toward freedom from porn.
You start to gain sobriety andyou think, man, I'm doing great.
However, this hero story canalso be toxic.
It can lead toself-righteousness,
(05:05):
perfectionism, entitlement, andultimately, it's all about
performance.
And it can also lead you awayfrom community and intimacy and
relationships because you'rejust focused on saving the day
yourself.
Heroes are often isolated,independent, and therefore
(05:26):
actually also at greater risk ofrelapse.
So if you view yourself as ahero, you get stuck in pride.
If you view yourself as thevictim, you get stuck in pain.
If you view yourself as thevillain, you get stuck in shame.
But there's an equal andopposite error that we can make,
which is denying one of thesestories.
If you deny your villain story,you end up thinking, what I've
(05:49):
done is not that bad.
It's no big deal.
And you minimize the real harmthat you've done, and you miss
out on conviction and growth andthe redemption that's possible
if you really face your own sin.
If you deny your victim story,you end up minimizing your
trauma and your childhood, andyou miss out on the beautiful
(06:12):
healing of self-compassion whenyou can fully face the harm that
you have been through.
And when you deny your herostory, you end up minimizing the
progress you have made and thehealing you have experienced and
the good things that you haveaccomplished.
And you end up missing out onthe confidence that comes from
(06:34):
knowing your own beauty andstrength.
And that's why when we look atourselves, we look at our lives,
we need to see all three ofthese stories.
Each of these stories has a giftfor us to receive.
Your villain story, asheartbreaking as it is, gives
you the gift of responsibilityand humility to take ownership
(06:59):
of your actions, to not think ofyourself too highly, and to be
committed to making thingsright.
The gift of your victim story,although I wish none of us were
ever victims, is sensitivity.
Because when you becomeacquainted with your pain, with
(07:21):
your trauma, with your childhoodwounds, it opens your heart up
to be tender and gentle and kindto others.
Unfortunately, many men viewtheir sensitivity as a weakness
when in fact it is one of ourgreatest strengths.
(07:44):
And our victim stories of howwe've been hurt have made us
more sensitive, and that's abeautiful thing.
And the gift of your hero storyis purpose.
When you see how God uniquelymade you to reflect his image in
this world, and you see the goodin yourself and the good in what
(08:05):
you can do, and you submit thatto him, following Jesus is such
a great adventure.
He is the hero of your story,and we get to come alongside him
in what he is doing.
And while all of us have beenvictimized in different ways, we
are not victims.
Each of us has a villain story,a victim story, and a hero story
(08:26):
that impacts our journey ofoutgrowing porn.
You might call the villain thevictim and the hero three
different parts of us.
And I'm particularly interestedin how these parts might show up
in specific sexual fantasies.
If you consider the type of pornthat you have historically
preferred, or the sexualfantasies that have been
(08:49):
especially powerful orattractive, who are you in those
fantasies?
What role do you play?
Are you the victim being actedupon?
Are you the villain who'sactively breaking the rules?
Or maybe are you the herorescuing the other person in the
(09:12):
fantasy?
Personally, I have found myselfin my fantasies in all three
roles.
Similarly, consider who elseshows up in your sexual
fantasies and the roles thatthey play.
Is the other person like a herorescuing you?
Is the other person a villaindoing something to you?
(09:34):
Or is the other person in yoursexual fantasy a victim that you
are acting upon?
If you've been listening to thispodcast for a while, you know
that I believe our stories andour sexualities are very
connected.
The things that sexually arouseus are not random.
The things that we fantasizeabout might seem strange, but
(09:57):
there's usually a story behindthem.
And I want to encourage you tosee if you can make any
connections between your villainstory, your victim story, and
your hero story, and specificsexual fantasies.
For example, maybe you grew upviewing yourself as the hero,
(10:18):
the good Christian boy.
Maybe you grew up in purityculture with strict, suffocating
rules and shame about sexuality.
So in porn, you find yourselfaroused in the role of a villain
because it breaks you free fromthat single story of being the
hero and the good Christian boyand all the obligation attached
(10:39):
to it.
Oftentimes, being the villaingives you a sense of release
from all the pressure of beingthe hero, the golden child, the
performer, the kid who had to begood.
You also might find yourselfaroused in the role of the
(10:59):
victim, because it also relievesyou of pressure.
As a victim, if you have noagency, if you have no power,
then you have no pressure and noresponsibility.
You just allow things to happen,and nothing's your fault.
Or if you grew up feeling like avillain, believing that you're
fundamentally bad, maybefantasizing about being a hero
(11:24):
gives you salvation from that.
Or you might fantasize aboutbeing a victim too.
There are endless combinations,endless storylines, and I don't
want to assume that just becauseyou had a specific type of
childhood that you're going tohave a specific type of fantasy.
But in any case, I encourage youto consider which of these three
(11:45):
categories do you see the mostin your story?
Your villain story, your victimstory, or your hero story?
Could it be that some of thesespecific storylines of villain,
victim, and hero may have shapedthe type of porn that you have
turned to?
(12:06):
Maybe your fantasies might beconnected to one of those
stories that you're not fully intouch with.
So the only place you haveaccess to it is through some
kind of sexual version of it.
In any case, we need to see allthree parts.
We are all villains, victims,and heroes in some sense, but
(12:27):
the truth is that's not who youtruly are.
And although all of those thingsare parts of us, and there's
some truth in them, the truestthing about you is that you are
God's beloved son.
In you, he is well pleased.
This is your secure identity,and it speaks to each of those
three stories.
Because in your villain story,if you're God's beloved son,
(12:50):
your shame does not define you.
You are not too broken.
There is nothing you can do tomake God love you any less.
And if your heart is broken byyour own sin, you are exactly
the kind of person Jesus diedfor, and there is grace and
space for you.
In your victim story, beingGod's beloved son means that
(13:12):
your pain and trauma does notdefine you.
You are not powerless.
You have not been given a spiritof fear, but of power, love, and
self-control.
And the same Holy Spirit whoraised Christ from the dead
lives in you.
So you can heal.
And in your hero story, beingGod's beloved son means that
(13:34):
your performance does not defineyou.
You are loved and accepted notbecause of anything you do or
don't do, but because of who Godis and what he has done for you.
He is the true hero of yourstory, saving you from the true
villain, the powers of evil, andbringing healing and redemption
(13:56):
to every part of you that hasbeen broken and victimized.
That's how identity in Christcan help you view yourself more
clearly and put all thesestories in their place.
So if you find yourself stuck inyour villain story, your victim
story, or your hero story,remember who you are.
Come back to your secureidentity.
(14:17):
The false beliefs we have aboutourselves as villains, victims,
and heroes can only survive inisolation, in the light of
authentic community.
We cannot just intellectuallybelieve, but emotionally
experience the truth.
That my friend, no matter whatyou've done, no matter what's
(14:37):
been done to you, the truestthing about you is that you are
God's beloved Son, and in you,He is well pleased.
Welcome to the Husband Material Podcast, where
we help Christian men outgrowporn.
Why?
So you can change your brain,heal your heart, and save your
relationship.
My name is Drew Boa, and I'mhere to show you how.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Today we are talking about the villain, the victim,
and the hero.
Three ways of viewing yourselfon the journey of outgrowing
porn.
How do you view yourself?
Do you ever feel like a villainas if everything is your fault?
Do you ever feel like a victim,overwhelmed and powerless to
(00:41):
change your life?
Or do you ever feel like a heroas if you have to succeed
because the whole world isdepending on you?
Maybe you felt all of thesethings at different times, which
is why today we're talking abouthow to see yourself accurately
and understand your storythrough these three lenses your
(01:02):
villain story, your victimstory, and your hero story.
These categories are inspired bythe drama triangle created by
Dr.
Stephen B.
Cartman, which describes commonpatterns in dysfunctional
relationships.
The original drama triangleconsists of the persecutor, the
victim, and the rescuer, whichI've adapted into the villain,
(01:23):
the victim, and the hero for thecontext of story work for men
outgrowing porn.
Because I found these threecategories so helpful in how I
view myself and how my clientscan view themselves more
accurately.
In today's episode, you willlearn why you need to see all
three of these stories yourvillain story, your victim
(01:45):
story, and your hero story, andwhat happens when you don't.
You'll also begin to explore howthese stories might connect to
specific sexual fantasies.
And in the end, you'll get apicture of how secure identity
in Christ and authenticcommunity with other men can
change everything.
(02:05):
Let's start with these threestories the villain, the victim,
and the hero.
The villain story is all aboutwhat I have done to harm myself
and others.
It's a story of the mistakesI've made.
A story of my sin, the ways thatI've fallen short, and the mess
(02:27):
that I've made in my life.
The victim story is about whathas been done to me.
It's a story of trauma, wounds,pain, neglect, abandonment,
abuse.
It's a story of injustice.
It's a story of the things thatshouldn't have happened to me
that did happen.
(02:47):
It's a story of the things thatshould have happened for me that
didn't happen.
And one of the most importantparts of being able to
understand ourselves accuratelyis seeing the connection between
our victim story and our villainstory.
And in contrast, the hero storyis about what I've done that's
good, the redemptive actionsI've taken, my accomplishments,
(03:11):
my successes, the things I'mproud of.
Did you know that you have avillain story, a victim story,
and a hero story?
We all experience all three.
All three stories are true, allthree stories are valid, and yet
they are not the truest thingsabout us.
When we overly focus on just oneof these stories, it becomes an
(03:34):
identity and a prison that webecome trapped in.
For example, when you only seeyour villain story, you become
stuck in shame.
You feel like a failure.
And this fuels the cycle ofsexually acting out, believing
that I'm a total failure.
I can't do anything right.
I might as well relapse, mightas well go back to it.
(03:57):
That's what happens when you seeyourself primarily as the
villain.
Some of us primarily seeourselves as the victim.
And when you only see yourvictim story, you get stuck in
pain.
If you feel trapped by whatothers are doing or not doing,
whether it's your spouse or yourfamily or your community, the
(04:21):
victim believes that people willalways let me down.
And there's nothing I can do tochange my situation.
If you see yourself primarily asa victim, you end up feeling
powerless to change anything.
It's a very hopeless place tobe.
On the other hand, if you denyyour villain story and your
(04:43):
victim story and you seeyourself as the hero, you get
stuck in pride.
This is really common for menwho start to gain momentum
toward freedom from porn.
You start to gain sobriety andyou think, man, I'm doing great.
However, this hero story canalso be toxic.
It can lead toself-righteousness,
(05:05):
perfectionism, entitlement, andultimately, it's all about
performance.
And it can also lead you awayfrom community and intimacy and
relationships because you'rejust focused on saving the day
yourself.
Heroes are often isolated,independent, and therefore
(05:26):
actually also at greater risk ofrelapse.
So if you view yourself as ahero, you get stuck in pride.
If you view yourself as thevictim, you get stuck in pain.
If you view yourself as thevillain, you get stuck in shame.
But there's an equal andopposite error that we can make,
which is denying one of thesestories.
If you deny your villain story,you end up thinking, what I've
(05:49):
done is not that bad.
It's no big deal.
And you minimize the real harmthat you've done, and you miss
out on conviction and growth andthe redemption that's possible
if you really face your own sin.
If you deny your victim story,you end up minimizing your
trauma and your childhood, andyou miss out on the beautiful
(06:12):
healing of self-compassion whenyou can fully face the harm that
you have been through.
And when you deny your herostory, you end up minimizing the
progress you have made and thehealing you have experienced and
the good things that you haveaccomplished.
And you end up missing out onthe confidence that comes from
(06:34):
knowing your own beauty andstrength.
And that's why when we look atourselves, we look at our lives,
we need to see all three ofthese stories.
Each of these stories has a giftfor us to receive.
Your villain story, asheartbreaking as it is, gives
you the gift of responsibilityand humility to take ownership
(06:59):
of your actions, to not think ofyourself too highly, and to be
committed to making thingsright.
The gift of your victim story,although I wish none of us were
ever victims, is sensitivity.
Because when you becomeacquainted with your pain, with
(07:21):
your trauma, with your childhoodwounds, it opens your heart up
to be tender and gentle and kindto others.
Unfortunately, many men viewtheir sensitivity as a weakness
when in fact it is one of ourgreatest strengths.
(07:44):
And our victim stories of howwe've been hurt have made us
more sensitive, and that's abeautiful thing.
And the gift of your hero storyis purpose.
When you see how God uniquelymade you to reflect his image in
this world, and you see the goodin yourself and the good in what
(08:05):
you can do, and you submit thatto him, following Jesus is such
a great adventure.
He is the hero of your story,and we get to come alongside him
in what he is doing.
And while all of us have beenvictimized in different ways, we
are not victims.
Each of us has a villain story,a victim story, and a hero story
(08:26):
that impacts our journey ofoutgrowing porn.
You might call the villain thevictim and the hero three
different parts of us.
And I'm particularly interestedin how these parts might show up
in specific sexual fantasies.
If you consider the type of pornthat you have historically
preferred, or the sexualfantasies that have been
(08:49):
especially powerful orattractive, who are you in those
fantasies?
What role do you play?
Are you the victim being actedupon?
Are you the villain who'sactively breaking the rules?
Or maybe are you the herorescuing the other person in the
(09:12):
fantasy?
Personally, I have found myselfin my fantasies in all three
roles.
Similarly, consider who elseshows up in your sexual
fantasies and the roles thatthey play.
Is the other person like a herorescuing you?
Is the other person a villaindoing something to you?
(09:34):
Or is the other person in yoursexual fantasy a victim that you
are acting upon?
If you've been listening to thispodcast for a while, you know
that I believe our stories andour sexualities are very
connected.
The things that sexually arouseus are not random.
The things that we fantasizeabout might seem strange, but
(09:57):
there's usually a story behindthem.
And I want to encourage you tosee if you can make any
connections between your villainstory, your victim story, and
your hero story, and specificsexual fantasies.
For example, maybe you grew upviewing yourself as the hero,
(10:18):
the good Christian boy.
Maybe you grew up in purityculture with strict, suffocating
rules and shame about sexuality.
So in porn, you find yourselfaroused in the role of a villain
because it breaks you free fromthat single story of being the
hero and the good Christian boyand all the obligation attached
(10:39):
to it.
Oftentimes, being the villaingives you a sense of release
from all the pressure of beingthe hero, the golden child, the
performer, the kid who had to begood.
You also might find yourselfaroused in the role of the
(10:59):
victim, because it also relievesyou of pressure.
As a victim, if you have noagency, if you have no power,
then you have no pressure and noresponsibility.
You just allow things to happen,and nothing's your fault.
Or if you grew up feeling like avillain, believing that you're
fundamentally bad, maybefantasizing about being a hero
(11:24):
gives you salvation from that.
Or you might fantasize aboutbeing a victim too.
There are endless combinations,endless storylines, and I don't
want to assume that just becauseyou had a specific type of
childhood that you're going tohave a specific type of fantasy.
But in any case, I encourage youto consider which of these three
(11:45):
categories do you see the mostin your story?
Your villain story, your victimstory, or your hero story?
Could it be that some of thesespecific storylines of villain,
victim, and hero may have shapedthe type of porn that you have
turned to?
(12:06):
Maybe your fantasies might beconnected to one of those
stories that you're not fully intouch with.
So the only place you haveaccess to it is through some
kind of sexual version of it.
In any case, we need to see allthree parts.
We are all villains, victims,and heroes in some sense, but
(12:27):
the truth is that's not who youtruly are.
And although all of those thingsare parts of us, and there's
some truth in them, the truestthing about you is that you are
God's beloved son.
In you, he is well pleased.
This is your secure identity,and it speaks to each of those
three stories.
Because in your villain story,if you're God's beloved son,
(12:50):
your shame does not define you.
You are not too broken.
There is nothing you can do tomake God love you any less.
And if your heart is broken byyour own sin, you are exactly
the kind of person Jesus diedfor, and there is grace and
space for you.
In your victim story, beingGod's beloved son means that
(13:12):
your pain and trauma does notdefine you.
You are not powerless.
You have not been given a spiritof fear, but of power, love, and
self-control.
And the same Holy Spirit whoraised Christ from the dead
lives in you.
So you can heal.
And in your hero story, beingGod's beloved son means that
(13:34):
your performance does not defineyou.
You are loved and accepted notbecause of anything you do or
don't do, but because of who Godis and what he has done for you.
He is the true hero of yourstory, saving you from the true
villain, the powers of evil, andbringing healing and redemption
(13:56):
to every part of you that hasbeen broken and victimized.
That's how identity in Christcan help you view yourself more
clearly and put all thesestories in their place.
So if you find yourself stuck inyour villain story, your victim
story, or your hero story,remember who you are.
Come back to your secureidentity.
(14:17):
The false beliefs we have aboutourselves as villains, victims,
and heroes can only survive inisolation, in the light of
authentic community.
We cannot just intellectuallybelieve, but emotionally
experience the truth.
That my friend, no matter whatyou've done, no matter what's
(14:37):
been done to you, the truestthing about you is that you are
God's beloved Son, and in you,He is well pleased.
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