March 10, 2022 • 36 mins
Mita Mallick has had an incredible journey from childhood into Corporate America, learning to stand up for herself and for others, and use her voice as a force of positive change. In this episode, we sojourn with Mita from a challenging childhood of being othered and bullied, to rising in the ranks at different organizations to currently being Head of Inclusion, Equity and Impact at Carta. We experience how this shy kid from immigrant parents turned into a powerful person living her truth, out loud.
We explore:
- How to find confidence and self-worth when you are bombarded with messages that you are not valued
- The power of representation at the highest level of a company and the positive impact it has not only on your people but the bottom line
- How to advocate for yourself and beat the stigma, when you’re the “Brown” woman doing “Black & Brown” work
Check out Mita’s amazing new podcast with Dee C. Marshall called “Brown Table Talk.” The first episodes of Season 2 have dropped, and the show is a featured podcast in partnership with The LinkedIn Podcast Network. In addition to LinkedIn, the show is available on most platforms including Apple and Spotify. Stay abreast of new episodes with their LinkedIn newsletter.
Mita Mallick is a corporate change-maker with a track record of transforming businesses. She gives innovative ideas a voice and serves customers and communities with purpose. She is currently the Head of Inclusion, Equity and Impact at Carta and formerly was the Head of Inclusion and Cross-Cultural Marketing at Unilever. She has had an extensive career as a marketer in the beauty and consumer product goods space. Mallick is a LinkedIn Top Voice, a contributor for Entrepreneur and Harvard Business Review, and her writing has been published in Adweek, Fast Company and Business Insider. Follow Mita on Instagram and Twitter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Jessica Hartley (00:01):
Welcome to the hustle grind shine and reignite
podcast. I'm your host, JessicaHartley. Join me on another
journey with amazing andtalented professionals of color.
We laugh and cry and take notes.
But most of all be inspired allof this and more on our next
episode of hustle, grind, shine.
(00:24):
And let's go Hello, and welcometo another episode of hustle,
grind, shine and reignite. I amyour host, Jessica Hartley, and
I am so pleased to welcome youto another episode of our show
(00:45):
my guest today, I'm so so veryexcited to have her on. And her
name is Mita Malik, and she isthe head of inclusion equity in
impact at Carta. She'll talk alittle bit more about that
later. But I'm so excited me toto welcome you to the show.
Mita Mallick (01:01):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to
be here today.
Jessica Hartley (01:05):
Yes, as I was sharing in our prep session,
I've been following your careerover the last few years and just
been so inspired and encouragedby your honesty and transparency
about your experiences incorporate America and just sort
of sharing out there to help usunderstand and help people
realize that they're not alone.
And you know, really, truly,that there are a lot of
(01:28):
challenges that people of color,and especially women of color
face and continue to face. Andyou know, we made a lot of great
ground, but there's still a lotmore work to do. So I'm so
excited to have you on. And Iwant to take us back back a
little bit in time and take usto little when you were a little
person and talk a little bitabout, you know, kind of growing
(01:50):
up and some influences on yougrowing up, and what did you
want to be when you were growingup?
Mita Mallick (01:58):
That's a great question. To start with. I am
the proud daughter of Indianimmigrant parents, my younger
brother and I were born andraised in the US. And we grew up
outside of Boston. And I was thefunny looking dark skinned girl
with a long funny looking braid,whose parents spoke funny
English until it wasn't funnyanymore. And I was bullied a
(02:18):
lot, both verbally andphysically by my peers. And that
really informed so much of whatI do now in my life, because I
think my purpose found me fromthat moment. And so I grew up in
a community, which waspredominantly white. And it was
made clear to me every singleday that I did not belong there
outside of my nuclear home, Ialso didn't grow up in the
(02:39):
Instagram error. So I also grewup in a world where I didn't see
myself reflected in the world.
So I didn't feel like Ibelonged. And so that's been a
big driving force behind mypurpose in who I am. Because I
don't want anyone to ever feellike they don't belong or feel
like they're excluded.
Jessica Hartley (02:53):
Yeah. So how did that guide you, as you went
on and sort of said, Okay, I'mgoing to put a stake in the
ground. As as young folk do,say, I'm going to major in this,
I'm going to do this thing, howdid you sort of make a decision
about what to do? Well, I
Mita Mallick (03:09):
very early on thought I would be a teacher. I
remember at the age of five,having like a chalkboard and
forcing my brother and his bestfriend to like, write their
names and be sure and they weresuper annoyed with me. And then
I thought I was going to be adoctor. Because most of the
individuals in my life that Iwas surrounded with were doctors
(03:30):
or engineers. And so I dideverything except take the MCAT.
And then I realized, I hate thesight of blood. What am I going
to do? I can't be a doctor,this.
Jessica Hartley (03:40):
I'm so good did not go to medical school.
Mita Mallick (03:44):
But I growing up I always thought I would be a
doctor. And then had thisepiphany. I would say my junior
year of college and I went tocollege at Columbia University
in the city in New York City.
And I was like, that's not goingto work for me. So
Jessica Hartley (04:00):
now what did your parents say? I know, being
a woman of color. I know howblack parents are, if you you
know, get they've invested inyou, I'm gonna do this. I'm
gonna do this. And as youngpeople do, sometimes we were
like, changing my mind. Wow.
Mita Mallick (04:15):
My parents are very supportive. My father
always said, Follow your passionand the money will follow. So
they were very, very supportive.
And I was always interested inwriting. I was an anthropology
major. Everyone was like what isan anthropology major, but
anthropology majors reallystudying human behavior and
culture, which is what I stilldo to this day. And as a
marketer, it served me reallywell. My parents were super
(04:36):
supportive. They always weresupportive. My outside my
parents, people were notsupportive. I would say the
community that we were growingup in and friends and family and
we're like, what are you doingwith your life? Like you're
totally screwing it up? Youshould be going
Jessica Hartley (04:52):
with guys. Yes.
Yeah, that resonates with me somuch. I just think about even
for me when I was makingdecision about where to go to
school and That to college. AndI was like, I'm not staying in
Georgia. And I remember people,oh my god, he God that you would
depart from your and I'm like, Iknow, this is not working for me
I need a different you know, soI can or whatever as my parents
(05:15):
were very supportive, but toyour point kind of outside of
that there are a lot ofnaysayers and people who were
just a negative, very myopicsort of view of the world in
that type of thing.
Mita Mallick (05:28):
I think it was my first lesson in thinking about
the life I want to live formyself, and not to live the life
that others expect to view,which is really difficult. I
think, just as humans and asindividuals who care. And as
people who don't want todisappoint, we sort of go back
and forth through that tension.
But that's one of the firstmoments where I knew I
disappointed a lot of people bydeciding to do something
different.
Jessica Hartley (05:50):
So how did you make that pivot? You were like,
You got all the way through likeliterally to taking exams, and
then you're like, Yeah, thisblood thing is kind of really
think that is not going to work.
How did you make the decision ofwhat to pivot to? Well,
Mita Mallick (06:05):
I think when I was in college, I was just I've
always been passionate aboutwriting. And if you know my
story growing up, I would say Iwasn't introverted. I was
painfully shy, there's adifference. I was painfully shy.
So I wrote a lot. I read a lot,I kept to myself a lot. And so
going to college just exposed meas it does to many young people
to a lot of different options.
And that's when I decided I'mactually I think, really
(06:27):
interested in marketing becauseas a young child, I loved
watching commercials. I didn'tactually like watching the TV
shows, I love commercials. Ilove being in the grocery aisle
with my mom, I love looking atpackages. And so I thought
there's something here, tied tostorytelling. And so I think
that had always been a threat inmy life. And then when I went to
college, I think I reallydiscovered it more whether it
(06:48):
was through internships or otheropportunities.
Jessica Hartley (06:52):
Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about how
your internship experience was,I had a lot of different types
of experiences. It absolutelyhelped to shape ultimately what
I did my last internship turnedinto my first job out of school.
Talk to me a little bit aboutyour Well, I went to different
Mita Mallick (07:11):
internship experiences, one was with a big
bank, and it was helping them inmarketing. I won't name the
bank. But one of the mostinteresting experiences someone
asked me, What was the firstexperience you had in a
workplace where you feltothered? Right, where you felt
like, clearly didn't belonghere. And I remember, it was a
(07:32):
large intern class, and I wasthe only person of color in the
intern class. And everybody elsewho was a full time employee at
the bank kept mistaking me forthe assistant. And so they would
ask me to make copies, theywould ask me to get coffee. And
these are things let me just beclear, we do those things as
(07:52):
interns, right. But I think it'svery different when you are the
only one being asked to do it.
And you are constantly beingmistaken. Is the room ready? The
guests are here. And I'm like,What are you talking about?
Anyone? Oh, you're talking aboutI don't work at the front desk.
Like, and no disrespect to that.
But it's just that was the firsttime that I was like, but you're
not asking any of the otherinterns who are here to do that.
(08:14):
So that's when I started to feelit was the first time that that
was like a experience thatreally stays with me. I think
the other internship experienceI had was working for a small PR
agency, which I stumbled upon inMassachusetts and writing press
releases. And I was like, wow,this is really interesting.
Like, I'm really enjoying this.
So that's one of my experiencesthat I think led me to what I'm
even doing today.
Jessica Hartley (08:36):
So talk to me about your first full time job
out of school. And how did thatfeel? And how did that then
guide? I guess, you know, forsome people, the first gig is a
catalyst to say, I'm in theright place, I feel like I'm on
the right journey. This feelsgood. And for others, it can be
the opposite effect of Oh, mygoodness, this is not what I
(08:57):
want to do. And this is notgoing to work. I've got to
figure
Mita Mallick (09:00):
out so well, after a few years of working post
undergrad, I went back to gradschool because I knew I wanted
to do marketing. And I thoughtthe MBA would help me which I
believe at the time it did. Ithink the markets different now,
but it did help me and I amgoing to Duke and I really loved
my experience there. And myfirst year there I was recruited
into Johnson and Johnson'sdiversity mini camp. So I
(09:20):
actually was able to go throughthe experience, get an offer
early, spend a few days with theemployer, which was awesome. And
then I started working there asan intern for that summer. And
then I went there full time, andit was an incredible experience.
I think it really justsolidified Yes, I want to be in
marketing. Yes, I'm a beautyperson not a foodie, my
husband's the foodie. And I'mall about Canadian conversation,
(09:42):
but I'm not a foodie. I'm abeauty person and so that my
first foray into just reallyfalling in love with marketing
and storytelling. And so I knewat that moment I was on the
right track. And then I shortlyafter left that job to start a
career at Avon and went on toother companies but really
stayed in the beauty You spacefor most of it.
Jessica Hartley (10:01):
Yeah. The Talk to me a little bit about Avon,
you know, very familiar with thejourney. And the story, actually
another guest on the show, spentsome time at Avon as well, as
we'll talk a little bit abouttheir experience. What was it
like working in a company,essentially by women, for women?
I know men and other individualswork there as well. But what was
(10:22):
it like to work at a companythat really sort of put women
primarily women, I should say,there's obviously kids lines and
others at the forefront? Didthat feel exciting or different
was that, you know, sometimes Ifind those environments can also
be a little mean girlenvironments as well. So
Mita Mallick (10:39):
I say all the above all, I would say that I
likely as someone starting mycareer, took it for granted that
I would see women in such highpositions of power from the CEO
to the President to the VicePresident. And now being in
having done a lot of differentthings since then, I'm like,
wow, that was a very specialtime in place. And I think even
(11:02):
the people who the team memberswho we all went through
experiences there, you're bondedfor life, right? And so even to
this
Jessica Hartley (11:10):
day, in the life,
Mita Mallick (11:12):
and I think the beauty industry is incredibly
fast paced, and also learned alot about the speed of
innovation. When you're lookingat working at very large
consumer product goodscompanies. It's usually like 30%
new products and 70%. Just keepdoing what you're doing and
selling what you're sellingversus beauty like working at na
(11:34):
Ivana L'Oreal and Estee Lauder,they are constantly turning on
innovation, which really is tiedto what's coming out of the
runway. It is very exciting. Ilearned a lot there.
Jessica Hartley (11:42):
Oh, wow. You tell me about an experience
during that time. Or maybeafter, as you were navigating
these environments, you talk alot about career and advancement
and grow. You have a podcast,we'll talk a little bit about
that. But talk to me a littlebit about how you felt when it
(12:02):
came to career development andadvancement as a woman of color
in these environments. stillpredominantly white in a lot of
ways, even if there are a lot ofwomen still predominantly white.
And talk a little bit about howyou felt about your the support
or lack thereof when it came tocareer detail. I
Mita Mallick (12:19):
will tell you, Jessica, I never anticipated
that those bullies who were inthe school yards and classrooms
would follow me into corporateAmerica. No one ever talks about
that. No one ever prepares youfor that. And then you show up
what I talked about in thatearly experience of being
consistently mistaken as theexecutive assistant, you then
(12:40):
realize that's just the tip ofthe iceberg. And I hate the word
microaggressions. Because what'sthe opposite macro aggressions?
It's the everyday aggressions.
And if you haven't read MichelleObama's book becoming privilege
of seeing her on the book tour,and she talks about how it's the
paper cards, it's the everydayslights that have a devastating
impact a lifetime ofaccumulation on how you feel
(13:02):
about your sense. How do you howyou feel about yourself, and
your sense of self worth. And sothat was just the tipping point.
And I very quickly, I didn'tvery quickly understand this.
Let me start again, I wish I hadhad this advice sooner in my
career, which I give toeveryone. Now. I'm the proud
daughter of Indian immigrantparents, I mentioned this. And
(13:25):
my father always said to me,said to us work hard, keep your
head down, stay out of trouble.
And you'll be recognized. Andit's it's a lovely thought. And
I think in many ways, it's true.
And in many ways, it's not it'scertainly not true in corporate
America. And when we get intopodcasts that my friend Dee and
I started roundtable talk, butyou know, having your work
(13:48):
stolen, being passed up forpromotion, being told that
you're not ready for the nextlevel, not being visible enough
and what that means. And so allof these things are just things
I've collected, I say go goingthrough moments of surviving and
thriving in workplaces. But ithas been something that's been
constant through my career.
(14:09):
Yeah.
Jessica Hartley (14:09):
So you have this really amazing journey in
consumer packaged goods workingon beauty brands, you went on,
ultimately, to do some time atUnilever, I say do some time
like it was prison, but youwould spend some time at
Unilever. But then at somepoint, there was a shift when
you as you know, moving thinkingabout multicultural marketing
(14:31):
and what it means to not justsort of mass market but what
does micro targeting micromarketing niche marketing mean
as we think about the explosionof multicultural products, and
then that then got you intoreally being very focused and
much more laser focused onequity, diversity, inclusion and
culture for an organization andno longer for products. Talk to
(14:55):
me a little bit about how thatmanifested for you.
Mita Mallick (14:58):
It's a great question. I was on a marketing
track. And my then CEOapproached me three times and
said, We have no one leadingdiversity, equity and inclusion,
would you do this? And I said,No. I said no, three times. And
my younger brother said, it'sprobably time to say yes, when
the CEO asked you three times,but I think sometimes people see
something in you that you don'tsee in yourself. And that's been
(15:20):
a real lesson for me. So yeah, Ialways say, go after the jobs.
And I've done this in my careertime and time again, the jobs
that aren't sexy, that aren'tglamorous, that don't have the
big budgets, take those jobs, oryou might be a team of one
growing where you might have aless budget, and make them your
own points on the board. And Ipromise you, when you leave that
(15:41):
job, there's going to be a lineof people waiting. That said,
all of a sudden, this is the jobI want. And so rather than I
think, because oftentimes Itried to get on those shiny big
brands, and I wasn't given thoseopportunities, and so I thought
to myself, alright, let me takethe ones that no one else wants.
And let me make them amazing.
And let me make them the shinyobject. So I ended up taking
that job. And I ended up a yearand a half into it, expanding it
(16:04):
to call it cross culturalmarketing. And I think that
phrase is probably to futureforward thinking for people, but
it is multicultural marketingand more. It's about how are you
an ally to the LGBTQ pluscommunity, veterans, individuals
with disabilities, there are somany ways that we identify and
as well with intersectionality,how are you showing up for these
(16:27):
communities? And I thinksomething that you said,
Jessica, about my marketingbackground, what I realized was,
and I know the world has shifteda lot, especially with the
diversity tipping point as myfriend de coined in 2020. But
what you see now is that Ibelieve I'm on a mission when I
work with organizations to buildend to end inclusion ecosystems.
(16:47):
So you talk about these pillars,and I talk about four pillars.
The first pillar is aboutworkforce, we can spend a lot of
time on workforce and howcompanies have a lot of work to
do when it comes to diversityrepresentation at all levels.
But then the second pillar forme is really, how are brands and
products showing up in themarketplace? So who are you
selling to? And why and who areyou excluding? And why the third
(17:09):
is really around supplierdiversity. Who do you write
checks to and why. And as you'veseen, from my background, I've
worked for some pretty bigcompanies. And it's like the
same five agencies we use, andthe same five people. So why.
And then the fourth is, you cansay you're going to stand for
values, it's really easy to putup that Instagram post, but when
are you ready to stand off forthem as a company? And I think
(17:29):
with everything going on from aUS context today, there are so
many human rights issues, socialjustice issues, consumers, but
also employees are calling oncompanies to say, Hey, what are
you doing about this? Thismatters to me, right? And I need
you to say something I need youto stand up.
Jessica Hartley (17:49):
Yes, no, I completely agree. I mean, when
we talk about, you know,obviously, everybody's talking
about the great resignation, weknow doing this work. And we're
like, people were just waiting,people felt as if they didn't
have choices, you know, and thesalaries and all of these
things. And I mean, things haveexploded. And it's because
people were just biding theirtime,
Mita Mallick (18:09):
I tell you, I, I'm not calling it the great
resignation, I'm calling it theGreat Awakening, people are no
longer willing to put up withwhat they put up before. And
this is I think, pent up pent upyears. Yeah. And McKinsey had
this recent study that talksabout the number one reason that
individuals are leaving are notfor better titles are not for
(18:30):
great snacks, or not for swag ornot for more money. Because they
feel like they don't belong. Anddisproportionately, this is
impacting people of color, whoare making moves, because I will
no longer tolerate not beingheard not being seen and not
being valued enough. So that isthe number one way you keep
people, you can keep looking atyour benefits. You can keep
(18:52):
looking at your compensation andyour pay scale and all of that.
But I will tell you, if I feelvalued, I'm not leaving for
$20,000 more, I'm just not
Jessica Hartley (19:00):
right. And because we know leaving, also,
there's lots of risk andleaving. And so if I'm happy and
good. And I mean, I talked tocoach people all the time, you
know, they're like, Should Ileave? And I'm like, if you're
getting what you need from yourrole, yes, you could go and get
some more money, but you feelvalued where you are. That's a
really good thing that's veryhard.
Mita Mallick (19:22):
valued. I think that is priceless. That is
priceless.
Jessica Hartley (19:26):
Yeah. Talk to me about what it feels like and
how you navigate being a browngirl during the brown girl work
right? So you and I know there'sprivilege but also a stigma that
comes along with being a personof color also leading in in
these ways. And often, you arenot only advocating for people
(19:48):
in your environment, you'restill also actually trying to
advocate for yourself as well.
How are you navigating thatespecially in your role today?
Mita Mallick (19:56):
It's tough because what you're alluding to is you
can be tokenized in this role.
And I know so many of us are.
But I would say I'm a businessperson. First. I'm a business
leader, and I grew up in thebusiness, and I'm a business
person. And I think if you canunderstand what at the
ultimately at the end of theday, we're all selling
something. So what is yourcompany selling? What are you
making money off of? How doesthe p&l work? How's the
(20:18):
structure of your company work?
And inclusion is not here, nothere, not here. It's right here.
It is a driver of the business.
And so the more you can getleaders to understand and
connect with that, I thinkthat's also where I've been able
to gain respect and trust, thatI understand how the business
works. And I understand how thiscan benefit the business. And so
(20:39):
I think that's really important.
And I'll just be honest, I'mexhausted, this is exhausting
work, I'm in it. It's importantwork. I'm doing this for my
children and all of ourchildren, I don't want them to
experience what I experiencedgrowing up, or hopefully
whatever they choose to do intheir life. I don't want them to
experience these things. I hopeit's a different world for them,
but it is exhausting. And Ialways say, if you're hiring a
chief diversity officer, don'texpect this person to come in
(21:03):
with a magic wand and fix this.
I don't have a magic wand thatI'm going to Whoo, whoa. All
bets are off. No, it's not. Andso we all each have a
responsibility. I think in aperfect world, we would each be
our own CTO, showing up everyday to work thinking about how
(21:24):
we can create inclusion spacesand places. I think we're a way
off from that. But that's theultimate hope is that you
wouldn't actually need this job.
Jessica Hartley (21:31):
Yeah, no, I agree. I, you know, one of the
things I've been saying as wellis telling people, I'm like,
hey, it's not enough for you tosay I accept everyone at work.
And I treat everyone equally atwork. If you still go home and
use racial epithets, or youdon't correct your grandma or
your cousin or your brother whenthey're saying things that are
(21:51):
homophobic or racist orinappropriate, you're not living
the values every day. That isliterally the definition of
performative, you know, is a youperforming at work, but still
living other values.
Mita Mallick (22:03):
I love that you just brought that up, because
inclusion starts at our kitchentables. We spent billions and
billions of dollars as acountry. The last stat I saw was
$8 billion on DNI training. Thisis pre 2020. Right? So imagine
how much more it's it is. Andone unconscious bias training
(22:24):
one workshop, I'm not going toreach you. It starts at home,
and I work with leaders and Isay, let me ask you these five
questions. Let's say it was prepandemic during pandemic, how do
you spend your time on theweekends? Where do you live? Who
are your neighbors? Who cutsyour hair? What grocery store?
Do you go do? Do you observewho's buying from there who's
checking you out? And when youhave big life decisions, who are
(22:46):
the five people who are not inyour family that you call and if
they all look like you and actlike you, then we have to have a
conversation with self to say weare self segregating. And so
that work starts at home, Idon't care how many trainings
you go through. I don't care howmany workshops you sit in to
your point, you can't undo thatyou have to start doing that
work. And you have to startintentionally thinking about how
(23:08):
you're living your life outsideof work, because that is really
hard for and now I'm talking toyou from my bedroom, which is my
office, right? All like,
Jessica Hartley (23:17):
it's all it's like life is work and work is
like we're all it's a talk aboutmesh realities. I mean, this is
the world that we're living in,when I spent time at Accenture
doing co lead for the NorthAmerican African American erg.
For the US I there was a youknow, a really big initiative
and push and one of the thingsthat's really a hard question to
(23:40):
ask people, particularly whitepeople, but not just white
people, other people as well.
You know, when have you had aperson of another race, like
welcome into your home, sit atyour table and actually eat
dinner with you share and bondmean this obviously pre
pandemic, so all the things butit was a very real statement to
your point of like, what doesyour circle look like? It's fine
(24:00):
that you hang out with someblack and brown folks at your
kids soccer game or basketballgame. But what does it look like
to actually have people who arepart of your trusted circle
Mita Mallick (24:12):
and I have, specifically to that point that
you just made when I have whiteleaders come to me and say Mita
black lives matter to me. I careabout this and I want to be an
ally, what can I be doing? Andthe really uncomfortable
question is Do you know anyoneblack intimately in your social
circles? That's the reallyuncomfortable question that no
one wants to talk about. Right?
Who do you know intimately inyour life for any community? I
(24:36):
use the black community as oneexample to how do you show up as
a on your journey as an ally,that Asian community, LGBTQ plus
community, any back to yourpoint about performative ally
ship, do you know anyone?
Intimately well, right, becausewe're not about to put black and
brown pain on display. But whenyou have intimate friendships
(24:58):
and relationships, thoseindustry We'll come and share
with you their pain becausethat's what you do in
friendships and relationships.
But that is the real questionhere that I think no one really
wants to talk about and getsreally uncomfortable because
then it's not about me puttingyou through a workshop. It's
like Mita. What are you doing?
Mita? The onus is on you. It'snot on the company who's writing
(25:19):
the checks? It's on me. It's onme, and how am I showing up? And
what work am I doing?
Personally?
Jessica Hartley (25:24):
Yeah, you talk about the pain that we all
carry, as people of color. Doingthis, we're doing what we love.
But it is also a labor of love,and emphasis on labor and that
sort of burden that we carry onour shoulders. Because this
work, as I often say to people,I'm like, This is life changing
(25:45):
work, the work that we're doingwhen we think about work in
coming to work every day, if aperson has a good experience or
a negative experience thatimpacts their life. And now that
we're virtual and doing a lot ofthings hybrid, I mean, I now I'm
having a bad work experience inthe place that's supposed to be
my sanctum, which is my home.
How are you refilling your cup?
(26:09):
What is Mita doing to take careof herself? You've mentioned
family and kids, I have threechildren, I understand
intimately how we pour into themand pour into others. How are
you taking care?
Mita Mallick (26:21):
I think you bring up a really great point, which
is that, for many of us, thiswork is our life and our life
experience. When people say tome, can we stop talking about
Black Lives Matter? Can we stopstop talking about stop Asian
Hate? Like, do we have tocontinue to talk about these
things? Many of us don't have achoice? Do our black colleagues
and friends have a choice? No,this is every single day. And so
(26:44):
the point of like living thatexperience, and then fighting
for me, I'm advocating withinthe system. I have many friends
who are doing it outside thesystem. And I think both are
important. It's like what do youdo for yourself? I play with my
kids a lot. I have a six andnine year old there's nothing
like kids, right? And my nineyear old going on nine Netflix
and going on. They will be inyour place. And so
Jessica Hartley (27:07):
they are just like way too cool that you're
dealing with all that stuff,man, but I'm hungry
Mita Mallick (27:13):
for dinner. I don't like what you made dinner.
We're out of cheese stringswhere the cheese it's like, are
you eating enough fruit? Youdidn't drink water.
Jessica Hartley (27:19):
This is I need another bad day. It's not
bleeding Do you really don'tlike don't need it, you just
want a bandage
Mita Mallick (27:26):
over. So I think there's nothing like kids I joke
I last book I read was HarryPotter Sorcerer's Stone, I don't
read books. But I read a lot ofshort form. And I color with my
kids I draw with my kids Iwrestle I'm getting they're
getting a little too big forwrestling and moms
Jessica Hartley (27:41):
like that. But I think just
Mita Mallick (27:45):
spending time with friends and family, right, and
just things where you candisconnect from all of this. And
that's hard to disconnect. But Ithink just turning the laptop
off, stop checking your phoneand the text, which I'm not
always great at, but I'm tryingto do them more and more. And I
love to write a lot writing istherapy for me. People say how
do you write so much? And I'mlike, I don't find it to be a
(28:08):
burden. I find it to besomething that's healing and
half of it never sees the lightof day. And some of it makes its
way on LinkedIn. Another place?
Jessica Hartley (28:15):
Yeah. Well, you talked about as a child and as a
kid, being that shy thatpainfully shy child and writing.
So it's so clear why that eventhen was a place of safety and
comfort for you. And evencontinuing today as an adult as
a parent shepherding otherlittle mini me's as well using
(28:38):
writing as sort of a vehicle. Soyou obviously and as many of us,
we never just have our dailyjobs. There are always other
things that we're doing andother projects. I know,
obviously, you've always hadsomething else going on. And you
speak at conferences andworkshops, but you recently what
your partner D, you've mentionedher or lunch, this really just I
(29:01):
mean real talk about industryand career and being women and
the things that we're facing andjust people of color overall.
Talk to me about this sort ofgenesis of where this idea came
from for you. Well,
Mita Mallick (29:15):
I met de Marshall, who is the founder and CEO of
diversity engaged in 2017multicultural Women's Conference
in New York City. And I became aclient. She was my coach and I'm
the client she can never get ridof now because we are we became
good friends after that. And youknow, we were constantly
(29:36):
texting. She taught me audiomessage, late night dinners,
phone calls, always about stuffthat was going on at work for me
and things that she wasexperiencing through her
business but also through hercoaching and things that clients
were going through. And twoyears ago I said to her do we
need to have a podcast I thinkyou and I should bring this just
(29:57):
live and it took us the pandemicto finally do it, but I think
there's something that Iactually posted about on
LinkedIn this morning, which wasBe the change you want to see,
stop waiting for someone to comein and fix it. And that's how I
felt with what is happening withwomen of color in workplaces
around the country. All theconversations that we don't talk
(30:18):
about, that we talk aboutamongst ourselves. So we started
this as a place for women ofcolor, to hear stories, to have
community, and then to getpractical tips on what they can
be doing to thrive in theirworkplaces. But we also wanted
it to be a place for allies. Andas DNI would have these
conversations, I would say,well, Dee, what would you do if
(30:39):
you were an ally in thissituation? If you saw my work
getting stolen? And you know,that this person stole it? Yeah,
what could what could the allybe doing, and then suddenly, it
was a place for everybody, it'sthe brown Table Talk is a place
for everyone. Because we needallies to step up and help women
of color when at work. Again,back to the burden, the burden
just can't be on me, I'm goingto do everything I can
(31:01):
personally to win at work andhelp other women of color when
at work, but we need everybody.
And so that's how it started.
And we just wrapped up seasonone, which was a limited series,
but we have some news that we'llbe doing a season two,
hopefully, shortly announcingthat, but we have eight
episodes. And they're prettypractical tips like how to get
credit and recognition for yourwork. There's a really a hard
(31:24):
episode that we did on what todo when you go from being the
office pet to the office threat,which is well documented
phenomenon, especially aroundblack women. But it's something
that I have also faced, but wereally did it too. Because just
as you and I are talking as bothas women of color, we have some
shared experiences, but alsovery different experiences. And
(31:45):
so we wanted to have two voicesat the table, just representing
de as a black woman and myselfas a brown woman to the South
Asian woman, the differentthings that we've gone through
and how our culture andcommunity also impacts the
things that we've experienced.
Jessica Hartley (31:59):
Yeah, I love that. And I'm so excited, I was
able to listen to a couple ofepisodes, it's on my queue for
the holiday break, I'm going tobe digging into all the things.
And I'm just so excited becausethere is just a proliferation.
And I know some of it has justbeen bottled up for years,
whether it's podcasts, or bookscoming out series, and what I
(32:22):
mean, there's just a lot ofreally rich content that is
supporting people of color,supporting women of color, in
ways that I think we've neverhad the ability to put words,
you know, language, how do youtalk about the things that
you're experiencing is,especially with the emotional
(32:45):
sort of turmoil that you're in,you're in the midst of it, and
sometimes you can't pick it. Wetalked about micro and macro
aggressions, well, macroaggressions, you can be like,
Okay, well, I that is very clearwhat that person has done.
microaggressions can be youknow, that cut can be so razor
thin, that you don't evenrealize the impact and the
(33:06):
detriment that it's had on youuntil much later. Yeah,
Mita Mallick (33:09):
absolutely. So I am just, we're just thrilled
with the response. We did thisas Be the change, you want to
see, like, who am I? Why am Iwaiting for someone else to tell
these stories? Let's startsharing them. And I think in
sharing stories for me, there ishealing, but it also empowers
others to share their story. Andit sends a ripple effect through
our ecosystem. And that's whatI'm hoping for.
Jessica Hartley (33:31):
Yes. Oh, I love that. Well, as we close, on this
note of round storytelling andsharing in writing and
communication, and obviously youand I know, I love what you were
like, hey, you know, you grew upin the 80s. There was no
Instagram, we didn't. We didn'thave these things growing up.
But what is your advice, aspeople are navigating corporate
(33:54):
America, whether they've justcome in and I often find it's
probably even harder. For someof us who've been doing this for
a while because you sort of getyou know, you get in this
mindset of I can't change. I'monly one person, I can't change
things. What would you be youradvice to someone who is going
through some challenges at work?
And they're thinking that oneperson can't make a difference?
Mita Mallick (34:17):
I think there's a few things I think first we all
can be the change we want tosee. So stop waiting for someone
else to fix it, whatever you'retrying to do whatever you're
waiting for start to do it. AndI think once you start you can
role model, what others shouldbe doing with you. And I think
just for anyone listening outthere who is struggling with
(34:39):
where they are right now intheir organization, ask for what
you want, ask for what you need.
And if you don't receive it,then you can always vote with
your feet. I would also say Itook me a long time to realize
this Jessica I will only be inplaces where I am celebrated and
not tolerated. And my friendTiffany Warren added, celebrated
and held up so there difference.
(35:01):
But we all are incrediblyvaluable and all are meant to do
great things. And so don't letsomeone else or an organization
define your worth for you.
Jessica Hartley (35:10):
Yes, yes. Oh, such sage advice. I am so
thankful to have you in yourtime. Today on the show, Rita.
This has been fantastic. We'vecovered a lot of juicy topics in
here. I appreciate you're baringyour soul a little bit about the
challenges and tribulations butalso talking about the really
(35:30):
big milestones that you've had.
And just I think, for me, it's,you know, slow and steady wins
the race. And we just have toget up every day and say, I'm
going to try to make affect thechange that I can today and we
will worry about tomorrow whenwe could get tomorrow. So thank
you for your time and yourtalent. Yes, yes. And I can't
wait for season two. Soeverybody if you have not
(35:54):
already checked out the browngirls podcast, please get out
there and check it out. It isamazing. Thank you. Me. Thank
you so much. Thank you forlistening to another episode of
hustle, grind, shine andreignite. If you liked this
episode, like subscribe andshare on all your favorite
(36:15):
podcast. I hope you'll tune into the next episode featuring
another amazing and talentedprofessional. In the meantime,
shine bright
Welcome to the hustle grind shine and reignite
podcast. I'm your host, JessicaHartley. Join me on another
journey with amazing andtalented professionals of color.
We laugh and cry and take notes.
But most of all be inspired allof this and more on our next
episode of hustle, grind, shine.
(00:24):
And let's go Hello, and welcometo another episode of hustle,
grind, shine and reignite. I amyour host, Jessica Hartley, and
I am so pleased to welcome youto another episode of our show
(00:45):
my guest today, I'm so so veryexcited to have her on. And her
name is Mita Malik, and she isthe head of inclusion equity in
impact at Carta. She'll talk alittle bit more about that
later. But I'm so excited me toto welcome you to the show.
Mita Mallick (01:01):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to
be here today.
Jessica Hartley (01:05):
Yes, as I was sharing in our prep session,
I've been following your careerover the last few years and just
been so inspired and encouragedby your honesty and transparency
about your experiences incorporate America and just sort
of sharing out there to help usunderstand and help people
realize that they're not alone.
And you know, really, truly,that there are a lot of
(01:28):
challenges that people of color,and especially women of color
face and continue to face. Andyou know, we made a lot of great
ground, but there's still a lotmore work to do. So I'm so
excited to have you on. And Iwant to take us back back a
little bit in time and take usto little when you were a little
person and talk a little bitabout, you know, kind of growing
(01:50):
up and some influences on yougrowing up, and what did you
want to be when you were growingup?
Mita Mallick (01:58):
That's a great question. To start with. I am
the proud daughter of Indianimmigrant parents, my younger
brother and I were born andraised in the US. And we grew up
outside of Boston. And I was thefunny looking dark skinned girl
with a long funny looking braid,whose parents spoke funny
English until it wasn't funnyanymore. And I was bullied a
(02:18):
lot, both verbally andphysically by my peers. And that
really informed so much of whatI do now in my life, because I
think my purpose found me fromthat moment. And so I grew up in
a community, which waspredominantly white. And it was
made clear to me every singleday that I did not belong there
outside of my nuclear home, Ialso didn't grow up in the
(02:39):
Instagram error. So I also grewup in a world where I didn't see
myself reflected in the world.
So I didn't feel like Ibelonged. And so that's been a
big driving force behind mypurpose in who I am. Because I
don't want anyone to ever feellike they don't belong or feel
like they're excluded.
Jessica Hartley (02:53):
Yeah. So how did that guide you, as you went
on and sort of said, Okay, I'mgoing to put a stake in the
ground. As as young folk do,say, I'm going to major in this,
I'm going to do this thing, howdid you sort of make a decision
about what to do? Well, I
Mita Mallick (03:09):
very early on thought I would be a teacher. I
remember at the age of five,having like a chalkboard and
forcing my brother and his bestfriend to like, write their
names and be sure and they weresuper annoyed with me. And then
I thought I was going to be adoctor. Because most of the
individuals in my life that Iwas surrounded with were doctors
(03:30):
or engineers. And so I dideverything except take the MCAT.
And then I realized, I hate thesight of blood. What am I going
to do? I can't be a doctor,this.
Jessica Hartley (03:40):
I'm so good did not go to medical school.
Mita Mallick (03:44):
But I growing up I always thought I would be a
doctor. And then had thisepiphany. I would say my junior
year of college and I went tocollege at Columbia University
in the city in New York City.
And I was like, that's not goingto work for me. So
Jessica Hartley (04:00):
now what did your parents say? I know, being
a woman of color. I know howblack parents are, if you you
know, get they've invested inyou, I'm gonna do this. I'm
gonna do this. And as youngpeople do, sometimes we were
like, changing my mind. Wow.
Mita Mallick (04:15):
My parents are very supportive. My father
always said, Follow your passionand the money will follow. So
they were very, very supportive.
And I was always interested inwriting. I was an anthropology
major. Everyone was like what isan anthropology major, but
anthropology majors reallystudying human behavior and
culture, which is what I stilldo to this day. And as a
marketer, it served me reallywell. My parents were super
(04:36):
supportive. They always weresupportive. My outside my
parents, people were notsupportive. I would say the
community that we were growingup in and friends and family and
we're like, what are you doingwith your life? Like you're
totally screwing it up? Youshould be going
Jessica Hartley (04:52):
with guys. Yes.
Yeah, that resonates with me somuch. I just think about even
for me when I was makingdecision about where to go to
school and That to college. AndI was like, I'm not staying in
Georgia. And I remember people,oh my god, he God that you would
depart from your and I'm like, Iknow, this is not working for me
I need a different you know, soI can or whatever as my parents
(05:15):
were very supportive, but toyour point kind of outside of
that there are a lot ofnaysayers and people who were
just a negative, very myopicsort of view of the world in
that type of thing.
Mita Mallick (05:28):
I think it was my first lesson in thinking about
the life I want to live formyself, and not to live the life
that others expect to view,which is really difficult. I
think, just as humans and asindividuals who care. And as
people who don't want todisappoint, we sort of go back
and forth through that tension.
But that's one of the firstmoments where I knew I
disappointed a lot of people bydeciding to do something
different.
Jessica Hartley (05:50):
So how did you make that pivot? You were like,
You got all the way through likeliterally to taking exams, and
then you're like, Yeah, thisblood thing is kind of really
think that is not going to work.
How did you make the decision ofwhat to pivot to? Well,
Mita Mallick (06:05):
I think when I was in college, I was just I've
always been passionate aboutwriting. And if you know my
story growing up, I would say Iwasn't introverted. I was
painfully shy, there's adifference. I was painfully shy.
So I wrote a lot. I read a lot,I kept to myself a lot. And so
going to college just exposed meas it does to many young people
to a lot of different options.
And that's when I decided I'mactually I think, really
(06:27):
interested in marketing becauseas a young child, I loved
watching commercials. I didn'tactually like watching the TV
shows, I love commercials. Ilove being in the grocery aisle
with my mom, I love looking atpackages. And so I thought
there's something here, tied tostorytelling. And so I think
that had always been a threat inmy life. And then when I went to
college, I think I reallydiscovered it more whether it
(06:48):
was through internships or otheropportunities.
Jessica Hartley (06:52):
Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about how
your internship experience was,I had a lot of different types
of experiences. It absolutelyhelped to shape ultimately what
I did my last internship turnedinto my first job out of school.
Talk to me a little bit aboutyour Well, I went to different
Mita Mallick (07:11):
internship experiences, one was with a big
bank, and it was helping them inmarketing. I won't name the
bank. But one of the mostinteresting experiences someone
asked me, What was the firstexperience you had in a
workplace where you feltothered? Right, where you felt
like, clearly didn't belonghere. And I remember, it was a
(07:32):
large intern class, and I wasthe only person of color in the
intern class. And everybody elsewho was a full time employee at
the bank kept mistaking me forthe assistant. And so they would
ask me to make copies, theywould ask me to get coffee. And
these are things let me just beclear, we do those things as
(07:52):
interns, right. But I think it'svery different when you are the
only one being asked to do it.
And you are constantly beingmistaken. Is the room ready? The
guests are here. And I'm like,What are you talking about?
Anyone? Oh, you're talking aboutI don't work at the front desk.
Like, and no disrespect to that.
But it's just that was the firsttime that I was like, but you're
not asking any of the otherinterns who are here to do that.
(08:14):
So that's when I started to feelit was the first time that that
was like a experience thatreally stays with me. I think
the other internship experienceI had was working for a small PR
agency, which I stumbled upon inMassachusetts and writing press
releases. And I was like, wow,this is really interesting.
Like, I'm really enjoying this.
So that's one of my experiencesthat I think led me to what I'm
even doing today.
Jessica Hartley (08:36):
So talk to me about your first full time job
out of school. And how did thatfeel? And how did that then
guide? I guess, you know, forsome people, the first gig is a
catalyst to say, I'm in theright place, I feel like I'm on
the right journey. This feelsgood. And for others, it can be
the opposite effect of Oh, mygoodness, this is not what I
(08:57):
want to do. And this is notgoing to work. I've got to
figure
Mita Mallick (09:00):
out so well, after a few years of working post
undergrad, I went back to gradschool because I knew I wanted
to do marketing. And I thoughtthe MBA would help me which I
believe at the time it did. Ithink the markets different now,
but it did help me and I amgoing to Duke and I really loved
my experience there. And myfirst year there I was recruited
into Johnson and Johnson'sdiversity mini camp. So I
(09:20):
actually was able to go throughthe experience, get an offer
early, spend a few days with theemployer, which was awesome. And
then I started working there asan intern for that summer. And
then I went there full time, andit was an incredible experience.
I think it really justsolidified Yes, I want to be in
marketing. Yes, I'm a beautyperson not a foodie, my
husband's the foodie. And I'mall about Canadian conversation,
(09:42):
but I'm not a foodie. I'm abeauty person and so that my
first foray into just reallyfalling in love with marketing
and storytelling. And so I knewat that moment I was on the
right track. And then I shortlyafter left that job to start a
career at Avon and went on toother companies but really
stayed in the beauty You spacefor most of it.
Jessica Hartley (10:01):
Yeah. The Talk to me a little bit about Avon,
you know, very familiar with thejourney. And the story, actually
another guest on the show, spentsome time at Avon as well, as
we'll talk a little bit abouttheir experience. What was it
like working in a company,essentially by women, for women?
I know men and other individualswork there as well. But what was
(10:22):
it like to work at a companythat really sort of put women
primarily women, I should say,there's obviously kids lines and
others at the forefront? Didthat feel exciting or different
was that, you know, sometimes Ifind those environments can also
be a little mean girlenvironments as well. So
Mita Mallick (10:39):
I say all the above all, I would say that I
likely as someone starting mycareer, took it for granted that
I would see women in such highpositions of power from the CEO
to the President to the VicePresident. And now being in
having done a lot of differentthings since then, I'm like,
wow, that was a very specialtime in place. And I think even
(11:02):
the people who the team memberswho we all went through
experiences there, you're bondedfor life, right? And so even to
this
Jessica Hartley (11:10):
day, in the life,
Mita Mallick (11:12):
and I think the beauty industry is incredibly
fast paced, and also learned alot about the speed of
innovation. When you're lookingat working at very large
consumer product goodscompanies. It's usually like 30%
new products and 70%. Just keepdoing what you're doing and
selling what you're sellingversus beauty like working at na
(11:34):
Ivana L'Oreal and Estee Lauder,they are constantly turning on
innovation, which really is tiedto what's coming out of the
runway. It is very exciting. Ilearned a lot there.
Jessica Hartley (11:42):
Oh, wow. You tell me about an experience
during that time. Or maybeafter, as you were navigating
these environments, you talk alot about career and advancement
and grow. You have a podcast,we'll talk a little bit about
that. But talk to me a littlebit about how you felt when it
(12:02):
came to career development andadvancement as a woman of color
in these environments. stillpredominantly white in a lot of
ways, even if there are a lot ofwomen still predominantly white.
And talk a little bit about howyou felt about your the support
or lack thereof when it came tocareer detail. I
Mita Mallick (12:19):
will tell you, Jessica, I never anticipated
that those bullies who were inthe school yards and classrooms
would follow me into corporateAmerica. No one ever talks about
that. No one ever prepares youfor that. And then you show up
what I talked about in thatearly experience of being
consistently mistaken as theexecutive assistant, you then
(12:40):
realize that's just the tip ofthe iceberg. And I hate the word
microaggressions. Because what'sthe opposite macro aggressions?
It's the everyday aggressions.
And if you haven't read MichelleObama's book becoming privilege
of seeing her on the book tour,and she talks about how it's the
paper cards, it's the everydayslights that have a devastating
impact a lifetime ofaccumulation on how you feel
(13:02):
about your sense. How do you howyou feel about yourself, and
your sense of self worth. And sothat was just the tipping point.
And I very quickly, I didn'tvery quickly understand this.
Let me start again, I wish I hadhad this advice sooner in my
career, which I give toeveryone. Now. I'm the proud
daughter of Indian immigrantparents, I mentioned this. And
(13:25):
my father always said to me,said to us work hard, keep your
head down, stay out of trouble.
And you'll be recognized. Andit's it's a lovely thought. And
I think in many ways, it's true.
And in many ways, it's not it'scertainly not true in corporate
America. And when we get intopodcasts that my friend Dee and
I started roundtable talk, butyou know, having your work
(13:48):
stolen, being passed up forpromotion, being told that
you're not ready for the nextlevel, not being visible enough
and what that means. And so allof these things are just things
I've collected, I say go goingthrough moments of surviving and
thriving in workplaces. But ithas been something that's been
constant through my career.
(14:09):
Yeah.
Jessica Hartley (14:09):
So you have this really amazing journey in
consumer packaged goods workingon beauty brands, you went on,
ultimately, to do some time atUnilever, I say do some time
like it was prison, but youwould spend some time at
Unilever. But then at somepoint, there was a shift when
you as you know, moving thinkingabout multicultural marketing
(14:31):
and what it means to not justsort of mass market but what
does micro targeting micromarketing niche marketing mean
as we think about the explosionof multicultural products, and
then that then got you intoreally being very focused and
much more laser focused onequity, diversity, inclusion and
culture for an organization andno longer for products. Talk to
(14:55):
me a little bit about how thatmanifested for you.
Mita Mallick (14:58):
It's a great question. I was on a marketing
track. And my then CEOapproached me three times and
said, We have no one leadingdiversity, equity and inclusion,
would you do this? And I said,No. I said no, three times. And
my younger brother said, it'sprobably time to say yes, when
the CEO asked you three times,but I think sometimes people see
something in you that you don'tsee in yourself. And that's been
(15:20):
a real lesson for me. So yeah, Ialways say, go after the jobs.
And I've done this in my careertime and time again, the jobs
that aren't sexy, that aren'tglamorous, that don't have the
big budgets, take those jobs, oryou might be a team of one
growing where you might have aless budget, and make them your
own points on the board. And Ipromise you, when you leave that
(15:41):
job, there's going to be a lineof people waiting. That said,
all of a sudden, this is the jobI want. And so rather than I
think, because oftentimes Itried to get on those shiny big
brands, and I wasn't given thoseopportunities, and so I thought
to myself, alright, let me takethe ones that no one else wants.
And let me make them amazing.
And let me make them the shinyobject. So I ended up taking
that job. And I ended up a yearand a half into it, expanding it
(16:04):
to call it cross culturalmarketing. And I think that
phrase is probably to futureforward thinking for people, but
it is multicultural marketingand more. It's about how are you
an ally to the LGBTQ pluscommunity, veterans, individuals
with disabilities, there are somany ways that we identify and
as well with intersectionality,how are you showing up for these
(16:27):
communities? And I thinksomething that you said,
Jessica, about my marketingbackground, what I realized was,
and I know the world has shifteda lot, especially with the
diversity tipping point as myfriend de coined in 2020. But
what you see now is that Ibelieve I'm on a mission when I
work with organizations to buildend to end inclusion ecosystems.
(16:47):
So you talk about these pillars,and I talk about four pillars.
The first pillar is aboutworkforce, we can spend a lot of
time on workforce and howcompanies have a lot of work to
do when it comes to diversityrepresentation at all levels.
But then the second pillar forme is really, how are brands and
products showing up in themarketplace? So who are you
selling to? And why and who areyou excluding? And why the third
(17:09):
is really around supplierdiversity. Who do you write
checks to and why. And as you'veseen, from my background, I've
worked for some pretty bigcompanies. And it's like the
same five agencies we use, andthe same five people. So why.
And then the fourth is, you cansay you're going to stand for
values, it's really easy to putup that Instagram post, but when
are you ready to stand off forthem as a company? And I think
(17:29):
with everything going on from aUS context today, there are so
many human rights issues, socialjustice issues, consumers, but
also employees are calling oncompanies to say, Hey, what are
you doing about this? Thismatters to me, right? And I need
you to say something I need youto stand up.
Jessica Hartley (17:49):
Yes, no, I completely agree. I mean, when
we talk about, you know,obviously, everybody's talking
about the great resignation, weknow doing this work. And we're
like, people were just waiting,people felt as if they didn't
have choices, you know, and thesalaries and all of these
things. And I mean, things haveexploded. And it's because
people were just biding theirtime,
Mita Mallick (18:09):
I tell you, I, I'm not calling it the great
resignation, I'm calling it theGreat Awakening, people are no
longer willing to put up withwhat they put up before. And
this is I think, pent up pent upyears. Yeah. And McKinsey had
this recent study that talksabout the number one reason that
individuals are leaving are notfor better titles are not for
(18:30):
great snacks, or not for swag ornot for more money. Because they
feel like they don't belong. Anddisproportionately, this is
impacting people of color, whoare making moves, because I will
no longer tolerate not beingheard not being seen and not
being valued enough. So that isthe number one way you keep
people, you can keep looking atyour benefits. You can keep
(18:52):
looking at your compensation andyour pay scale and all of that.
But I will tell you, if I feelvalued, I'm not leaving for
$20,000 more, I'm just not
Jessica Hartley (19:00):
right. And because we know leaving, also,
there's lots of risk andleaving. And so if I'm happy and
good. And I mean, I talked tocoach people all the time, you
know, they're like, Should Ileave? And I'm like, if you're
getting what you need from yourrole, yes, you could go and get
some more money, but you feelvalued where you are. That's a
really good thing that's veryhard.
Mita Mallick (19:22):
valued. I think that is priceless. That is
priceless.
Jessica Hartley (19:26):
Yeah. Talk to me about what it feels like and
how you navigate being a browngirl during the brown girl work
right? So you and I know there'sprivilege but also a stigma that
comes along with being a personof color also leading in in
these ways. And often, you arenot only advocating for people
(19:48):
in your environment, you'restill also actually trying to
advocate for yourself as well.
How are you navigating thatespecially in your role today?
Mita Mallick (19:56):
It's tough because what you're alluding to is you
can be tokenized in this role.
And I know so many of us are.
But I would say I'm a businessperson. First. I'm a business
leader, and I grew up in thebusiness, and I'm a business
person. And I think if you canunderstand what at the
ultimately at the end of theday, we're all selling
something. So what is yourcompany selling? What are you
making money off of? How doesthe p&l work? How's the
(20:18):
structure of your company work?
And inclusion is not here, nothere, not here. It's right here.
It is a driver of the business.
And so the more you can getleaders to understand and
connect with that, I thinkthat's also where I've been able
to gain respect and trust, thatI understand how the business
works. And I understand how thiscan benefit the business. And so
(20:39):
I think that's really important.
And I'll just be honest, I'mexhausted, this is exhausting
work, I'm in it. It's importantwork. I'm doing this for my
children and all of ourchildren, I don't want them to
experience what I experiencedgrowing up, or hopefully
whatever they choose to do intheir life. I don't want them to
experience these things. I hopeit's a different world for them,
but it is exhausting. And Ialways say, if you're hiring a
chief diversity officer, don'texpect this person to come in
(21:03):
with a magic wand and fix this.
I don't have a magic wand thatI'm going to Whoo, whoa. All
bets are off. No, it's not. Andso we all each have a
responsibility. I think in aperfect world, we would each be
our own CTO, showing up everyday to work thinking about how
(21:24):
we can create inclusion spacesand places. I think we're a way
off from that. But that's theultimate hope is that you
wouldn't actually need this job.
Jessica Hartley (21:31):
Yeah, no, I agree. I, you know, one of the
things I've been saying as wellis telling people, I'm like,
hey, it's not enough for you tosay I accept everyone at work.
And I treat everyone equally atwork. If you still go home and
use racial epithets, or youdon't correct your grandma or
your cousin or your brother whenthey're saying things that are
(21:51):
homophobic or racist orinappropriate, you're not living
the values every day. That isliterally the definition of
performative, you know, is a youperforming at work, but still
living other values.
Mita Mallick (22:03):
I love that you just brought that up, because
inclusion starts at our kitchentables. We spent billions and
billions of dollars as acountry. The last stat I saw was
$8 billion on DNI training. Thisis pre 2020. Right? So imagine
how much more it's it is. Andone unconscious bias training
(22:24):
one workshop, I'm not going toreach you. It starts at home,
and I work with leaders and Isay, let me ask you these five
questions. Let's say it was prepandemic during pandemic, how do
you spend your time on theweekends? Where do you live? Who
are your neighbors? Who cutsyour hair? What grocery store?
Do you go do? Do you observewho's buying from there who's
checking you out? And when youhave big life decisions, who are
(22:46):
the five people who are not inyour family that you call and if
they all look like you and actlike you, then we have to have a
conversation with self to say weare self segregating. And so
that work starts at home, Idon't care how many trainings
you go through. I don't care howmany workshops you sit in to
your point, you can't undo thatyou have to start doing that
work. And you have to startintentionally thinking about how
(23:08):
you're living your life outsideof work, because that is really
hard for and now I'm talking toyou from my bedroom, which is my
office, right? All like,
Jessica Hartley (23:17):
it's all it's like life is work and work is
like we're all it's a talk aboutmesh realities. I mean, this is
the world that we're living in,when I spent time at Accenture
doing co lead for the NorthAmerican African American erg.
For the US I there was a youknow, a really big initiative
and push and one of the thingsthat's really a hard question to
(23:40):
ask people, particularly whitepeople, but not just white
people, other people as well.
You know, when have you had aperson of another race, like
welcome into your home, sit atyour table and actually eat
dinner with you share and bondmean this obviously pre
pandemic, so all the things butit was a very real statement to
your point of like, what doesyour circle look like? It's fine
(24:00):
that you hang out with someblack and brown folks at your
kids soccer game or basketballgame. But what does it look like
to actually have people who arepart of your trusted circle
Mita Mallick (24:12):
and I have, specifically to that point that
you just made when I have whiteleaders come to me and say Mita
black lives matter to me. I careabout this and I want to be an
ally, what can I be doing? Andthe really uncomfortable
question is Do you know anyoneblack intimately in your social
circles? That's the reallyuncomfortable question that no
one wants to talk about. Right?
Who do you know intimately inyour life for any community? I
(24:36):
use the black community as oneexample to how do you show up as
a on your journey as an ally,that Asian community, LGBTQ plus
community, any back to yourpoint about performative ally
ship, do you know anyone?
Intimately well, right, becausewe're not about to put black and
brown pain on display. But whenyou have intimate friendships
(24:58):
and relationships, thoseindustry We'll come and share
with you their pain becausethat's what you do in
friendships and relationships.
But that is the real questionhere that I think no one really
wants to talk about and getsreally uncomfortable because
then it's not about me puttingyou through a workshop. It's
like Mita. What are you doing?
Mita? The onus is on you. It'snot on the company who's writing
(25:19):
the checks? It's on me. It's onme, and how am I showing up? And
what work am I doing?
Personally?
Jessica Hartley (25:24):
Yeah, you talk about the pain that we all
carry, as people of color. Doingthis, we're doing what we love.
But it is also a labor of love,and emphasis on labor and that
sort of burden that we carry onour shoulders. Because this
work, as I often say to people,I'm like, This is life changing
(25:45):
work, the work that we're doingwhen we think about work in
coming to work every day, if aperson has a good experience or
a negative experience thatimpacts their life. And now that
we're virtual and doing a lot ofthings hybrid, I mean, I now I'm
having a bad work experience inthe place that's supposed to be
my sanctum, which is my home.
How are you refilling your cup?
(26:09):
What is Mita doing to take careof herself? You've mentioned
family and kids, I have threechildren, I understand
intimately how we pour into themand pour into others. How are
you taking care?
Mita Mallick (26:21):
I think you bring up a really great point, which
is that, for many of us, thiswork is our life and our life
experience. When people say tome, can we stop talking about
Black Lives Matter? Can we stopstop talking about stop Asian
Hate? Like, do we have tocontinue to talk about these
things? Many of us don't have achoice? Do our black colleagues
and friends have a choice? No,this is every single day. And so
(26:44):
the point of like living thatexperience, and then fighting
for me, I'm advocating withinthe system. I have many friends
who are doing it outside thesystem. And I think both are
important. It's like what do youdo for yourself? I play with my
kids a lot. I have a six andnine year old there's nothing
like kids, right? And my nineyear old going on nine Netflix
and going on. They will be inyour place. And so
Jessica Hartley (27:07):
they are just like way too cool that you're
dealing with all that stuff,man, but I'm hungry
Mita Mallick (27:13):
for dinner. I don't like what you made dinner.
We're out of cheese stringswhere the cheese it's like, are
you eating enough fruit? Youdidn't drink water.
Jessica Hartley (27:19):
This is I need another bad day. It's not
bleeding Do you really don'tlike don't need it, you just
want a bandage
Mita Mallick (27:26):
over. So I think there's nothing like kids I joke
I last book I read was HarryPotter Sorcerer's Stone, I don't
read books. But I read a lot ofshort form. And I color with my
kids I draw with my kids Iwrestle I'm getting they're
getting a little too big forwrestling and moms
Jessica Hartley (27:41):
like that. But I think just
Mita Mallick (27:45):
spending time with friends and family, right, and
just things where you candisconnect from all of this. And
that's hard to disconnect. But Ithink just turning the laptop
off, stop checking your phoneand the text, which I'm not
always great at, but I'm tryingto do them more and more. And I
love to write a lot writing istherapy for me. People say how
do you write so much? And I'mlike, I don't find it to be a
(28:08):
burden. I find it to besomething that's healing and
half of it never sees the lightof day. And some of it makes its
way on LinkedIn. Another place?
Jessica Hartley (28:15):
Yeah. Well, you talked about as a child and as a
kid, being that shy thatpainfully shy child and writing.
So it's so clear why that eventhen was a place of safety and
comfort for you. And evencontinuing today as an adult as
a parent shepherding otherlittle mini me's as well using
(28:38):
writing as sort of a vehicle. Soyou obviously and as many of us,
we never just have our dailyjobs. There are always other
things that we're doing andother projects. I know,
obviously, you've always hadsomething else going on. And you
speak at conferences andworkshops, but you recently what
your partner D, you've mentionedher or lunch, this really just I
(29:01):
mean real talk about industryand career and being women and
the things that we're facing andjust people of color overall.
Talk to me about this sort ofgenesis of where this idea came
from for you. Well,
Mita Mallick (29:15):
I met de Marshall, who is the founder and CEO of
diversity engaged in 2017multicultural Women's Conference
in New York City. And I became aclient. She was my coach and I'm
the client she can never get ridof now because we are we became
good friends after that. And youknow, we were constantly
(29:36):
texting. She taught me audiomessage, late night dinners,
phone calls, always about stuffthat was going on at work for me
and things that she wasexperiencing through her
business but also through hercoaching and things that clients
were going through. And twoyears ago I said to her do we
need to have a podcast I thinkyou and I should bring this just
(29:57):
live and it took us the pandemicto finally do it, but I think
there's something that Iactually posted about on
LinkedIn this morning, which wasBe the change you want to see,
stop waiting for someone to comein and fix it. And that's how I
felt with what is happening withwomen of color in workplaces
around the country. All theconversations that we don't talk
(30:18):
about, that we talk aboutamongst ourselves. So we started
this as a place for women ofcolor, to hear stories, to have
community, and then to getpractical tips on what they can
be doing to thrive in theirworkplaces. But we also wanted
it to be a place for allies. Andas DNI would have these
conversations, I would say,well, Dee, what would you do if
(30:39):
you were an ally in thissituation? If you saw my work
getting stolen? And you know,that this person stole it? Yeah,
what could what could the allybe doing, and then suddenly, it
was a place for everybody, it'sthe brown Table Talk is a place
for everyone. Because we needallies to step up and help women
of color when at work. Again,back to the burden, the burden
just can't be on me, I'm goingto do everything I can
(31:01):
personally to win at work andhelp other women of color when
at work, but we need everybody.
And so that's how it started.
And we just wrapped up seasonone, which was a limited series,
but we have some news that we'llbe doing a season two,
hopefully, shortly announcingthat, but we have eight
episodes. And they're prettypractical tips like how to get
credit and recognition for yourwork. There's a really a hard
(31:24):
episode that we did on what todo when you go from being the
office pet to the office threat,which is well documented
phenomenon, especially aroundblack women. But it's something
that I have also faced, but wereally did it too. Because just
as you and I are talking as bothas women of color, we have some
shared experiences, but alsovery different experiences. And
(31:45):
so we wanted to have two voicesat the table, just representing
de as a black woman and myselfas a brown woman to the South
Asian woman, the differentthings that we've gone through
and how our culture andcommunity also impacts the
things that we've experienced.
Jessica Hartley (31:59):
Yeah, I love that. And I'm so excited, I was
able to listen to a couple ofepisodes, it's on my queue for
the holiday break, I'm going tobe digging into all the things.
And I'm just so excited becausethere is just a proliferation.
And I know some of it has justbeen bottled up for years,
whether it's podcasts, or bookscoming out series, and what I
(32:22):
mean, there's just a lot ofreally rich content that is
supporting people of color,supporting women of color, in
ways that I think we've neverhad the ability to put words,
you know, language, how do youtalk about the things that
you're experiencing is,especially with the emotional
(32:45):
sort of turmoil that you're in,you're in the midst of it, and
sometimes you can't pick it. Wetalked about micro and macro
aggressions, well, macroaggressions, you can be like,
Okay, well, I that is very clearwhat that person has done.
microaggressions can be youknow, that cut can be so razor
thin, that you don't evenrealize the impact and the
(33:06):
detriment that it's had on youuntil much later. Yeah,
Mita Mallick (33:09):
absolutely. So I am just, we're just thrilled
with the response. We did thisas Be the change, you want to
see, like, who am I? Why am Iwaiting for someone else to tell
these stories? Let's startsharing them. And I think in
sharing stories for me, there ishealing, but it also empowers
others to share their story. Andit sends a ripple effect through
our ecosystem. And that's whatI'm hoping for.
Jessica Hartley (33:31):
Yes. Oh, I love that. Well, as we close, on this
note of round storytelling andsharing in writing and
communication, and obviously youand I know, I love what you were
like, hey, you know, you grew upin the 80s. There was no
Instagram, we didn't. We didn'thave these things growing up.
But what is your advice, aspeople are navigating corporate
(33:54):
America, whether they've justcome in and I often find it's
probably even harder. For someof us who've been doing this for
a while because you sort of getyou know, you get in this
mindset of I can't change. I'monly one person, I can't change
things. What would you be youradvice to someone who is going
through some challenges at work?
And they're thinking that oneperson can't make a difference?
Mita Mallick (34:17):
I think there's a few things I think first we all
can be the change we want tosee. So stop waiting for someone
else to fix it, whatever you'retrying to do whatever you're
waiting for start to do it. AndI think once you start you can
role model, what others shouldbe doing with you. And I think
just for anyone listening outthere who is struggling with
(34:39):
where they are right now intheir organization, ask for what
you want, ask for what you need.
And if you don't receive it,then you can always vote with
your feet. I would also say Itook me a long time to realize
this Jessica I will only be inplaces where I am celebrated and
not tolerated. And my friendTiffany Warren added, celebrated
and held up so there difference.
(35:01):
But we all are incrediblyvaluable and all are meant to do
great things. And so don't letsomeone else or an organization
define your worth for you.
Jessica Hartley (35:10):
Yes, yes. Oh, such sage advice. I am so
thankful to have you in yourtime. Today on the show, Rita.
This has been fantastic. We'vecovered a lot of juicy topics in
here. I appreciate you're baringyour soul a little bit about the
challenges and tribulations butalso talking about the really
(35:30):
big milestones that you've had.
And just I think, for me, it's,you know, slow and steady wins
the race. And we just have toget up every day and say, I'm
going to try to make affect thechange that I can today and we
will worry about tomorrow whenwe could get tomorrow. So thank
you for your time and yourtalent. Yes, yes. And I can't
wait for season two. Soeverybody if you have not
(35:54):
already checked out the browngirls podcast, please get out
there and check it out. It isamazing. Thank you. Me. Thank
you so much. Thank you forlistening to another episode of
hustle, grind, shine andreignite. If you liked this
episode, like subscribe andshare on all your favorite
(36:15):
podcast. I hope you'll tune into the next episode featuring
another amazing and talentedprofessional. In the meantime,
shine bright
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