November 9, 2024 • 46 mins
Laurie Shiell from the Center Against Abuse joins me on the Hustle Her Podcast to share her heartfelt journey and insights into combating domestic violence. From her passion for Somerset cricket and morning rituals to her adventures in Korean skincare, Lori offers a personal glimpse into her life. We uncover the vital services the Center Against Abuse provides, such as counseling and legal advocacy, while discussing the pressing challenges of finding safe housing in Bermuda and the critical role of community awareness and support in addressing domestic abuse.
Understand the complexities behind why victims remain in abusive relationships by exploring psychological and societal factors. Our discussion dives into the addictive nature of brain chemistry and how societal norms pressure both women and men to remain in toxic environments. We also touch on the unique difficulties faced by men, highlighting financial dependency and emotional manipulation as significant barriers to leaving. This conversation aims to foster a deeper understanding that can translate into more effective support for those trapped in the cycle of violence.
Recognizing early signs of abuse is crucial, and Laurie and I walk through subtle indicators that can easily be overlooked. By examining behaviors like excessive control disguised as care, we stress the importance of trusting one's intuition and seeking help. We talk about the profound effects of abuse on children and the vital role of child services and school counselors. Friends and family play an essential role in supporting victims, and our discussion offers actionable guidance on how unwavering support can break the cycle of violence and create a path toward healing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm a hustler baby.
It's time for Hustle Herpodcast.
I'm your host, deshae Caines.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, of motivation, a bit oftough love and some actionable
(00:26):
takeaways to be the best.
You, girl, you are in the rightplace.
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast.
As always, thank you forspending some time with me today
.
Big shout out to our seasonsponsors, 59 Front and Brown
Company.
This episode's sponsor isScooter Mart, as well as the
(00:46):
Women's Resource Center.
My guest today is someone thatI reached out to after seeing
some pretty interesting numbersonline about domestic violence.
So I reached out to the CenterAgainst Abuse and the lovely
Lori Shield agreed to be on thepodcast today.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome, lori.
Thank you so much for having me.
Deshay, it's a pleasure to beon the podcast today.
Welcome, laurie.
Thank you so much for having meto share.
It's a pleasure to be here yes,thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So before we jump right in, I always jump in with
some rapid fire questions justso people can kind of get to
know you, um, and then we'll gointo the meat of the
conversation.
Okay, I'm out for it.
All right, let's go.
I know it just passed, but whois your cut match team?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Somerset, of course.
Oh, Lori Sis, I'm a winner.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
This is what I love to hear.
I love it, I love it, I love it.
All right, what's your favoritetime of the day?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Morning, oh, so you're a morning person, I am a
morning person.
Okay, I get more done in themorning.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
By the afternoon I'm right, got you okay, um, all
right.
What would you say is yourbiggest strength?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
listening um perhaps providing feedback as well all
right, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay, and what's your favorite color?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
it depends on the year.
Each year I have a differentfavorite color.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So what is it for 2024?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
2024.
It is like a kelly green.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what was it 2023?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yellow.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh, okay, I love that you switch it up.
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's never the same color.
I don't have one favorite color.
Next year maybe it will be adifferent color.
It's just like somethingcatches my eye.
I'm like, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I love that Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What's your favorite thing to do with your husband?
Like the best date date night.
What's the best thing you liketo do?
The best thing I love to dowith my husband is to travel.
We both love to travel, um, andso planning the travel for us
is even exciting, nice.
So this year we are planningfor next year and so we're
hoping to do ethiopia, we'rehoping to do a European cruise,
and those are the things we haveplanned.
We usually do three big trips ayear, so one more is.
(02:50):
We're going to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, there we go.
I love it.
Love a little travel time.
Got to get off the island,definitely we do minimum two
weeks every time.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, and you have amazing skin, so tell me about
your skincare routine.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just started using a Korean skincare, so I've been
using it for the past three tofour months.
It's fermented ginseng I can'tpronounce the name Hi, hi, da,
ba, ba, da, something like that.
My sister lives in California,in Koreat korea town, and so was
(03:27):
there and she's right down thestreet from a korean mall and
was in there and happened uponthis product and I really love
it love it.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Okay, well, that's really good to know, okay.
So when I reached out to you,um, I I had seen an article
online that the policecommissioner had posted about
the numbers of domestic violencerising during the last
hurricane that we had I can'tremember the name of the
hurricane, yeah, but it was thelast one that we had last month
and how the domestic violencenumbers increased in Bermuda.
(03:59):
And it actually came from afriend of mine who sent me the
article and was like I had noidea that the domestic violence
numbers in Bermuda were the waythat they were.
And so I reached out to you andyou were like, yeah, it's, it's
pretty staggering, you know.
And I asked you know, would youlike to come on and talk about
it?
And so we definitely want todefinitely get into that.
But what I want to do first isfor you to tell me a bit of an
(04:21):
overview about the CenterAgainst Abuse and its mission
for Bermuda.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So Center Against Abuse.
We are in our 45th year.
We started back in 1979 underthe name the Physical Abuse
Center, and we currently provideservices which include
counseling.
We do legal advocacy, whichincludes assisting people with
protection orders, summaryoffense letters, going to court
(04:47):
with them if they have acriminal matter to support them.
We work very closely with thepolice department of child and
family services, as well asaging and disability um that
them and us make up a groupcalled the multi-agency risk
assessment committee.
We meet every other week todiscuss high-risk domestic abuse
(05:07):
cases in Bermuda.
We also provide what we callcommunity awareness and advocacy
and training in the communityon domestic abuse.
We try to hit the three R's.
We call it recognize andresponding and referring, and so
that's the basis of all of ourtraining that we do in the
(05:28):
community and whether it's achurch, whether it's a lunch and
learn at a business, whetherit's at a school with teachers,
when it comes to children, wetry to refer that to Coalition
for Protection of children Um.
We assist people with safehousing and resettlement um.
That is becoming more difficult, I have to say, because of the
(05:51):
prices in Bermuda and costs um,but we're working through it.
We work with him on that Um andso we try to assist individuals
who um find themselves inabusive situations, so anyone
over the age of 18, male orfemale, and below the age of 65,
(06:12):
we assist, and we provideassistance to survivors of
domestic abuse.
Well, let me put it this way weprovide assistance to survivors
of intimate partner abuse.
Okay, okay, so we intimatepartner abuse.
Okay, okay, so we're veryspecific not just the entire
brand of domestic abuse, butintimate partner abuse.
And then we also assist thosewho have been sexually assaulted
(06:36):
.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, all right.
So I guess, before we go on,just a little bit.
How did you get involved in thecenter against abuse and become
the ed?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I tell people god placed me here.
Wow, I um.
It goes back to childhood.
So I grew up with mygrandmother in my ear about
abuse, believe it or not,because she was a child that was
a victim of domestic abusewhere her parents were in an
abusive relationship.
Her father was abusive to hermother and she would tell me and
(07:07):
my sister this story about howshe was raised in an abusive
home and how she um, didn't wantus to repeat the cycle and she
would say it runs in your blood.
Wow, and now we're learning howtrauma now comes through the
bloodline.
This is a lady that had aprimary school um degree, okay,
(07:29):
and but she understood back thenthat abuse, trauma, is handed
down through the blood.
And so she would say I'mtelling you this not to shame my
dad, but so you won't repeatthe cycle.
Wow, and so that was her jobnot to repeat the cycle in her
family, to cut it off.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, wow, that's crazy.
So then you transitioned.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So then I transitioned into this by chance
, to be honest with you A friendof mine, deanna Durham.
She was on the board at theFiscal Abuse Center and she was
like, oh, we need somebody.
I'm moving on, loree, and Iwould like for you to replace me
.
And she reminds me she said Ichased you for about a year and
so I eventually came on.
At that time I was in HR andthey needed someone with HR
(08:14):
experience and so came on board,was on board for about a year
and then my HR job was beingmade redundant.
The executive director at thephysical abuse center at the
time she was going on asabbatical for her full-time job
.
Because she was part-time, theyasked me to come on for a year.
Here I am, 15 years later wow,that's what they say.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You look back in 15 years have flown by.
I was supposed to be here forone year one year and look at
you 14 years later, still hereyes, and making an amazing um
impact on our community so whenin when we think of domestic
violence or intimate partnerabuse in the sense of what we're
here to cover today, how doesit present itself in the
bermudian context like what dowe, what are we seeing the most
(09:00):
here?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
we see everything from physical abuse to verbal
abuse, the emotional abuse of itall.
Socially, people being abused,religious abuse.
We see as well find a lot offinancial abuse, and that shows
up in a lot of different ways.
Well, and some people see itwhen they remove themselves from
(09:26):
the person, so withholdingchild support, using the courts
as a means to financiallydeplete you through your, you
know, having to pay for a lawyer, and things like that.
And then the newest one,technological abuse.
We see a lot of tech abuse now,where people are now using your
(09:46):
phone to send you harassingemails, sending you harassing
voice notes, um, threatening,threatening you as well as
demanding your passwords,throwing your phones up against
the wall, breaking you know,computers, phones, all of that
you know and even thenthemselves putting information
(10:08):
that's untrue about you onsocial media.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And we're seeing a lot of that in the tech space.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yes, Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And then, with you know, things like WhatsApp and
Facebook and Instagram, yes, andthen you also have, like you
know, certain social media islike Snapchat, where you can see
it and then it's gone.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And then it disappears.
And so a lot of my clients now,as soon as something comes
through screenshot, theyscreenshot it immediately before
it disappears.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So one of the things that stood out the most to me
were the statistics and theprevalence of domestic violence
in Bermuda.
Right, and some of thestatistics show a significant
number of women and men inBermuda experiencing abuse,
right, can you share some ofthose alarming statistics that
most people don't know abouthere?
So?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
one of the most alarming statistics is that the
major call outs for police isdomestic abuse, so the most call
outs they have is for domesticabuse.
Prior to gang violence, themurder rate was due to domestic
abuse, wow, you know, and itcontinues today.
It didn't stop because of gangviolence, but it just is now
(11:13):
overshadowed by that.
The Bermuda Police Servicestarted because of a domestic
abuse murder, you know.
So domestic abuse didn't juststart here recently.
It's been around and we arestill tackling it.
Unfortunately, we saw ournumbers go up to 170 during the
(11:33):
pandemic.
Prior to that we were around120, 130 a year.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And this is when you say 120, 130, you're saying
clients, clients, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Clients coming into our office, right, and that's
not services, because servicesgo into, you know, 700s and all
of that right.
So clients coming into ouroffices annually, so, and today
we are at 123 clients today,today, and for those are men,
(12:06):
and so we are now seeing anotherincrease.
What we have seen an increasein since the pandemic is, year
on we have seen an increase inour numbers for counseling.
So last year I hired an extracounselor, so our counselors are
on call.
And last year I hired an extracounselor and this year we
(12:29):
surpassed our numbers from lastyear by May.
Wow, this year.
So our counseling piece hasgrown tremendously and we find
that people are now calling andasking for counseling which is
something specific yes, whichwas something that wasn't
happening before we were.
(12:51):
You know, especially in theblack community we find that
people kind of shy away fromcounseling.
But we are finding more andmore people of color calling and
saying I need some counseling,I need some help and what do you
think that is?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
What do you think the narrative has changed a bit
when it comes to counseling,especially in the black
community?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I would say people that have completed counseling
are now telling their friendslook what it did for me.
I encourage you to do it.
You've been in this too long.
You can't get yourself out.
You need some help.
So that has definitely assisted.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So when you've been in this too long, you can't get
yourself out, you need some help, yeah, so that has definitely
assisted so when I was goingthrough the website, I read and
I want to read this specificallythat over 7 000 women have
experienced domestic abuse intheir lifetime, which is about
27 of our population, femalepopulation here in bermuda.
What are some of the, I guess,factors that contribute to the
prevalence of this abuse inwomen specifically?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
yeah, and I would say specifically, even in bermuda,
we have such a tiny island and alot of it that contributes to
women staying is that they don'twant everybody know their
business.
Okay, speaking specificallyabout women, right, they don't
want everybody to know theirbusiness.
Okay, speaking specificallyabout women, right, they don't
(14:08):
want others to know theirbusiness.
They don't want it to appear asif they failed.
I failed in my marriage, Ifailed in my relationship.
I failed, as they feel as afailure as a parent, especially
when they're children.
Another contributing factor isthis is how I was raised, and
(14:29):
it's normal.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Wow, that generational thing we spoke
about, the generational cycle.
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then there is I love my partner.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Despite the abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Despite the abuse, because they're not bad all the
time.
I want you to understandbecause they're not bad all the
time.
I want you to understand thatthey're not bad all the time.
They have bad, bad moments,yeah, and so I put those bad
moments behind me and I look atthe good and when you are in an
abusive relationship.
Um, studies show that there isa chemical reaction to the abuse
(15:03):
, because there's a chemicalreaction to the makeup and so
you crave the makeup, right?
And so the brain quicklyforgets the abuse and craves the
makeup.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow, Because once you get past the abuse, the makeup
is so nice.
That oxytocin that pulls you inthat dopamine.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
All of that is raging in your body, and so that is
what's at the forefront for youeven even when you're being
abused, regardless of the typeof abuse that it is you're
mentally, you're just focused onwhen it gets better again
exactly when it gets betteragain and you know the
conversations that we have withour clients is you know, you are
actually addicted to thisperson.
Wow, it's an addiction.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It is an addiction wow, it's crazy how our brain
works right, how we processthings and, like you would think
and that's one of the things Iwant to talk to you about and
we'll get to it in a littlewhile is you think, when someone
is being abused, your naturalreaction is to leave?
Yes, but because it doesn'thappen all the time, like what
you're speaking about, yourbrain is making you think oh,
this is not that bad.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You stay in the situation in the situation and
because a lot of times whenyou're in that situation with
that person, you're seeking tohelp them, not yourself.
They need the help and womentraditionally and women
traditionally are fixers likethat.
Right, we want to help thatperson and the conversation that
I have with clients is is thatif you're not a professional,
(16:24):
you can't assist this person.
You can give them a place to go.
They have to help themselves.
You can only help yourself.
You cannot help someone elseother than giving them the
information so that they can gowhen they are ready.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you mentioned earlier that you've had some men
come in with domestic violence.
I think it was four for thisyear.
What are you, what would yousay, are some of the differences
in the trends you've observedbetween men and women facing
domestic violence?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
believe it or not, men stay in it longer because a
male ego will not admit to beinga victim will never admit to
being a victim, because they canhandle that person, whether
that partner is male or female.
They can handle that personbecause it's the male ego that's
speaking to them Right, and sothey tend to stay in it longer
(17:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
So when we think men in domestic violence like most
people, I guess when it comes todomestic violence and intimate
partner abuse, we tend toautomatically assume physical
right.
Violence and intimate partnerabuse, we tend to automatically
assume physical right.
Are we seeing physical when itcomes to men, or is it more
emotional, verbal or, in certainsituations, is it all of the
above?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
it's all of the above right.
Um, they experience the exactsame thing.
A female will go through, but,like I said, they tend to stay
in it longer, in particular,especially if it's in a same sex
relationship.
It's hidden, more got you it is,it does appear to us that it's
hidden more um, and while theperson may be publicly
(17:58):
homosexual, same sex, um, thatpart is still kind of a taboo
for a homosexual relationship tohave that right.
And so we find that people feelthat they may be judged, and so
that's another reason why theyhide it.
They don't know how they'regoing to be perceived or
received.
(18:19):
It's like, oh well, what do youexpect, especially if they go
to a church or your senate?
It's sinning so that's a part ofthe sin, and so that's a part
of the sin.
And if they were raised inchurch, they may feel that guilt
of it as well.
So it's a lot of factors withthe same sex.
But Center Against Abuse ishere for you.
(18:39):
We're a judgment-free zone.
Like I said, we assist anyonewho is a victim of intimate
partner abuse.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So we touched on it briefly around why it's
difficult for victims to leavetheir abusers, and you said it's
definitely a chemical reaction.
Are there other things that wecan essentially kind of educate
people on, on the reasons whypeople don't leave?
Because, I said it earlier,like the minute I hear that
someone or anyone hearssomeone's being abused, like
well, why would they stay inthat?
So, outside of what we kind ofspoke about already, what are
(19:09):
some of the additional factorsand why people stay in these
abusive relationships?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
they stay for the children they stay because they
think it's going to get better,because, remember, I fell in
love with this individual, andso that's the person I'm staying
for.
I'm not staying for the abuser,I'm staying for the person.
I fell in love with thisindividual, and so that's the
person I'm staying for.
I'm not staying for the abuser,I'm staying for the person I
fell in love with.
Um finances, I can't make it onmy own out here.
You know how expensive it is.
(19:35):
It's very expensive yeah and notonly is it expensive.
To make it on your own to tomove is expensive, right, yeah,
and so those costs areastronomical.
Yeah, I also stay because I ambeing told constantly that
(19:59):
nobody else is going to want me.
I'm being constantly belittled,and so leaving is not even in
my mind because I'm dealing withthe here and now.
I'm just fighting firesconstantly.
I'm trying to keep the peaceconstantly, and so leaving?
I can't think about that,because I'm just trying to keep
(20:19):
peace in my house.
Every day is trying to stayalive.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Every day is trying to stay alive.
Every day is trying to stayalive.
And if there's childrenfactored into that, taking care
of the kids I'm taking care ofthe kids.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I'm trying to keep the peace.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm just trying to keep the eggshells on the
perimeter until because you'repreparing for the next time that
I'm preparing for the next time, because I know it's going to
happen, but I'm just trying tokeep those eggshells on the
perimeter yeah, so when we weretalking initially, we were
speaking about um sexual abuse,intimate partner abuse, and a
lot of times people think ifyou're in a relationship, um, it
(20:54):
technically isn't abuse, but westill were speaking about no
means no, even in a relationshipeven in a relationship.
No means no yeah how often arewe seeing those types of things
happening when with intimatepartner abuse?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
in majority of intimate partner abuse there is
sexual abuse.
Wow, because your partner has alack of respect for you, has a
lack of um respect for yourviews and even your voice, in
particular your voice and soyou're no means nothing, because
to them they own you, you aretheirs and so you're no means
(21:28):
nothing.
In Bermuda we even have on ourbooks, we have spousal sexual
abuse as an act of a crime.
You know that people canactually take their spouse for
sexually assaulting them to thecourts.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, and I mean it's in the, I guess in the
definition of it.
You understand that that is thecase and that is abuse.
And if I say no, it means no,but you don't in, I'm assuming
in the moment, or when you thinkabout it that way.
It's like how can your partner,someone that you've already
been intimate with in that way,abuse you like that?
So I guess I don't know it.
(22:05):
Just I understand it Right.
Right, it makes complete sensewhen you explain it.
But then when you think aboutit on a deeper level and I guess
that's where the mental part ofit comes into is like I've
already been intimate with thisperson, but then they're
violating me in that way.
That's got to be a.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And you don't initially see it as that.
Right, it's just like let's gothis again.
You know, not listening to meand forcing themselves upon me
and you see it as that and okay,let me just do this and get it
over with.
But then, once they're sittingin my office and I have this
conversation and say, you know,has there ever been any sexual
(22:40):
abuse?
And initially it's like, well,no.
And then I continue with theconversation.
Have you ever performed sexualacts that you didn't want to,
that you said no to, that youwere forced to do?
Well, yes, you know, that'sjust a part of marriage.
Do you know, if I explain thisto you, what sexual assault is?
It's lack of consent.
(23:02):
If you did not consent, thatsexual assault.
And it's like if the same thinghappened with a stranger, what
would you call it?
Abuse, assault, sexual assault.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
and that's the aha moment because I'm telling you
you don't think about that, youdon't because this is the person
I love?
Yeah, and if you have childrenwith them, you've clearly
already been intimate with themand I've been intimate with them
wow so do you think thatthere's adequate legal
protection in bermuda fordomestic violence victims?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
no, what could we do better?
We could definitely tighten upall our laws, you know, in
particular around domestic abuse, because we don't have an
overarching domestic abuse act.
We only have a domestic abuseprotection orders act that only
speaks to protection orders.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And so if we had a overarching act which spoke to
domestic abuse in Bermudawhether it's with intimate
partners, whether it's someoneelse in your household, whether
it's with a senior we would havean understanding of what it
looks like, what it is, what'snot going to be tolerated right,
and so we need to hold abusersmore accountable in Bermuda.
(24:17):
What I find is, with theProtection Orders Act, if
someone breaches I've seenpeople breach 10 times and
they're bailed, and they'rebailed, and they're bailed, and
they're bailed and they'rebailed what do you think that
that does to the victim?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, what's the point of?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
me reporting it.
I'm reporting it, I'm reportingit.
I'm doing what I'm supposed todo Exactly.
And the person gets arrested,the person goes before the
courts, the person gets bailedand it may seem like, oh well,
they're just stalking you, oh,they just called you.
But do you know what that'sdoing to me internally, to my
mental health, and especially ifI'm the primary parent, how am
(24:57):
I now parenting in fear?
How is that being nowtranslated to my children?
Yeah, and so these are thethings that need to be looked at
when someone continually getsbailed, because it's also
reinforcing with the perpetratorwhat it is no big deal, no big
(25:18):
deal, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I'll just go to court , get bailed out.
I'm gonna get bailed and it'llbe fine.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
It'll be fine and I'll be off to do whatever I
wish to do again so if someonedoes violate that protection
order um act well, I guess orderright um and they get bailed.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
What happens?
Do we have a rate of peoplegoing to prison or jail for
abuse?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Very low.
Even if they are, there is acriminal area that they go
through rather than the civil,which is the protection orders.
It sometimes takes a year, twoyears three years for the matter
to actually finally be heard inthe court, years for the matter
to actually finally be heard inthe court.
(26:02):
And some people feel as if thematter is taken so long so that
you could, you would just goaway.
They feel like their mattersaren't important to the courts
and you know it's because it'spersonal.
This is personal to me and soI'm feeling offended by the
(26:24):
courts because I keep gettingput on the back burner.
Oh well, we have a murder trialand and your lawyer has to be
in that, so that's moreimportant than your matter.
So these are things thatvictims are constantly hearing
when it comes to criminalmatters for domestic abuse, and
it has has an impact that Idon't matter to even the courts.
They don't see this asimportant.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, so what does the Center Against Abuse do in
those instances in terms ofsupport for people who are going
?
They've done what they'resupposed to do and it's not
coming up in the system?
You know, in a way, that wewould like to see, in terms of
expediency, how do you supportthem in the system?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
you know, in a way, that we would like to see in
terms of expediency.
How do you support them?
So once we hear something, Imay call the police.
I may even work with the DPPand say listen, this person was
released.
Or we try to head it off priorto, especially if it's a high
risk individual.
It means that we're going tocall the police and say have a
call, have a talk with the DPPand say have a call, have a talk
with the DPP and say objectionsto bail.
(27:23):
Objections to bail because of A, b, c and D and those are
criminal matters right.
And so we have been good in thatarea.
Where objections to bail havebeen upheld by the courts, or if
they haven't, we've kind of putsomething in place.
Okay, we're going to ask thepolice to do drive-bys by your
(27:45):
house, and we discussed withthem a serious safety plan put
in place.
They may not even be staying,they may be staying somewhere
else.
That is safe.
But we have to work as a teamwith the police and even
Department of Child and FamilyServices, if there are children
involved, to ensure thateverybody is kept safe.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
So you mentioned earlier that most of your
clients, or your clients thatyou have remit over, are between
the ages of 18 and 65.
That's correct, but pre-show.
We were speaking about how, alot of times in these intimate
partner abuse situations, thechildren are witnessing, yes to
this, what happens in thosesituations?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
in those situations, especially if I'm hearing your
full story.
Um, I will ask you isdepartment of child and family
services involved in your life?
Do you have a case worker?
Because we want to get thechildren some assistance.
If it isn't, I might say to youhave a conversation with even
(28:44):
if you are involved with Childand Family Services, I will say
have a conversation with yourschool counselor.
There's someone that are goingto see your children on a
regular.
Get them to understand whatyour children have seen, what
they have witnessed, so thatthey can bring them in.
And they have that someone thatthey see five days a week, from
(29:07):
9 to 3, 3.30, that can assistyour child through transitions.
Even speak with the teacher,right, because if your child's
acting up in class, the teacherneeds to understand.
My child's not acting upbecause my child's being rude,
my child's tired because we wereup late last night because I
had a domestic.
(29:27):
My child woke to me crying orwoke to me screaming, right, and
so once a teacher understandsthat they're going to understand
.
Oh, I see you acting up.
I'm going to need to hug you orlet me just have you spend some
time with the school counselortoday, because those are the
children we need to love ratherthan discipline.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Absolutely so.
You mentioned, when we weretalking pre-show as well around
some of the new findings thatyou've been made aware of about
children who are experiencingdomestic abuse as opposed to
actually being witnessing it, asopposed to being abused.
Tell me a bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So studies show that children who experience domestic
abuse have rate mental healthissues higher than children who
are being abused directlythemselves.
That's a wow, and so if wedon't get a grip on that, it
then continues the cycle, right.
(30:25):
And so that's why it'simportant that your child, if
they are in an abusive situation, that they receive some type of
assistance, that theyunderstand what love is, because
right now, love is looking alot crazy to me, and I'm feeling
it crazy because here are myparents in front of me having
(30:46):
issues.
Who do I go with?
How do I protect this person?
I don't want to see my otherparent go to jail.
I don't want to see the policeit to jail.
I don't want to see the police.
It's a lot on a child's mind,right, and they're going to
school with it.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
They don't know how to process it yeah, and then
when we talk about cycles, umand generational, you know
cycles, these things, even ifthey're witnessing it.
But they can potentially be inenvironments where they are
either being abused or being theabuser as they get become
adults oh, yes, most definitely.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Um, you heard me speak earlier how my grandmother
was in a household where herparents were abusive.
Now she made a consciousdecision that no more for her
and her family.
She had a brother.
She had two brothers and one.
Both of them were alcoholics.
One was an alcoholic and anabuser, just like their father,
(31:32):
and him and his girlfriendfought like cats and dogs.
This is how my granny tells thestory, and he must have went at
the girlfriend one day and shesaid I've had enough.
She stabbed him 119 times.
She was the last female to behung in Bermuda.
This is what happened when thecycle is not broken, and this is
(31:54):
why it's so important thatpeople are going to counseling
right this is why it's soimportant that people get
counseling, and what studieshave also shown is when those
children are being loved upon byfamily members, those that they
trust, this can also changetheir brain.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Waves can change the chemical makeup in their brain
to remove the abuse and theturmoil that they're feeling in
their lives and give them somehope for a healthy future so
what can people do who arewitnessing or know of abuse
that's going on in relationshipswith children and the person
(32:36):
who is being abused has left,but they've gone back?
How can they support thatfamily or that person in their
journey through domestic abuse,especially intimate partner
abuse, which is what we'respecifically talking about?
How can they be supportive ofthem as opposed to well, they
won't leave.
So I'm done helping.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
How can we be more supportive?
And's hard, let me be honest.
It's very hard to support avictim who continually goes back
right um, but we have to yeahwe have to.
We have to be in there for thelong run, because isolation is
the perpetrator's biggest tool,isolating you from friends and
family.
That's when I have total power,right.
And so friends and family needto stay in the life.
(33:18):
Friends and family need to stayin that person's ear and have
those conversations with theimportance of raising the
children in healthy spaces,being in a healthy space
yourself so that you can behealthy for your children, being
in a healthy space yourself sothat you can be healthy for your
children, because a lot oftimes when you're not in a
(33:38):
healthy space, somebody else iswatching and will take advantage
of your children.
And so getting that pointacross, that making yourself,
making your children number onein your life, encouraging them
to seek help, going with them toseek help if you need to, um,
just intervention, intervention,intervention.
You know it soon becomesreality for them.
(34:00):
It soon becomes reality everytime you intervene there's a
seed being planted in thatperson, and so don't stop.
As hard as it is, as irritatedas you may get, don't't take it
personal that they they, you'renot offended, that they didn't
listen to you.
They have listened.
It's just really hard right now.
And ask them how can I help?
(34:21):
Yeah, how can I help you,because it may be something as
simple as listen.
I need a place to stay.
I had to go back because theplace I was at was only
temporary.
I didn't have a permanent placeto stay.
You know, maybe it means acouple of family members getting
together, paying $100 each amonth to assist with rent for a
time until that person gets ontheir feet, you know.
(34:43):
So there's a lot of things.
But ask the person how can Ihelp?
Also, we also focus a lot onthe victim.
We also need to focus on theperpetrator.
If that perpetrator is yourfriend, you need to be having
conversations with them in thesame way.
That's not on Understand.
I see what you're doing and I'mnot going to stand for it.
I'm going to assist the victimwith getting some help, with
(35:09):
calling the police police, withsupporting them, with supporting
your children.
No, I'm sorry you can't be apart of this group anymore
because we don't accept thattype of behavior.
You need some help me.
You need some help, yeah acegirl.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, it's a good call out because, in a community
as small as bermuda as well,more than likely not all the
time, but more than likely ifyou know the victim, you know
the abuser, you know the abuser,the abuse is not walking around
here friendless.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You know it's the truth, it's the truth.
So you know people need to stepup to the abuser whether it's
siblings, friends, parents,cousins, whomever and have a
serious talk.
Listen, if you don't toe theline how you're supposed to,
some things are going to happento you.
(35:54):
You can end up in case mates,I'm sorry, I'm dating myself
west gate, yes, at the othergate, and and or you know, we
find this behavior unacceptable.
Yeah, you can't be on this likethis especially because there's
no consequences for youractions.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Exactly right, I mean , it's one thing if the legal
system, but then if life goes onas normal, if your friends are
still your friends, if yourfamily is still treating me the
exact same, what?
What is the need to change?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
what is the need to change?
No, you need to get some help.
We need to assist you andputting you in a program,
because this is clearlysomething that you you don't
have a handle on and that you'renot interested, but we need to
assist you with gettinginterested you're absolutely,
honestly, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I'm so grateful that you said that, because even when
I was doing the research forthis and I was looking up the
different things, uh, aboutabuse, very rarely do we talk
about the help that the abuserneeds in order to stop, you know
, doing the things that they'redoing to the victims.
We want the victims to getcounseling, want them to get all
the support that they need, butif they're trying to get a hold
and healed and their abuserisn't, what is the point?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right, because I've left the person and guess what?
They're still abusing me,they're still harassing me,
they're still stalking me.
The behaviors are still there.
And that's the sad part is thatsometimes, when you leave, the
behaviors do not stop you justhave to set up these tighter
boundaries and tighterboundaries.
So there's a hole there.
Let me set that up.
And you know, sometimes it meansI need to change my number, I
need to change my routines andin bermuda it's got to be so
(37:23):
difficult because you could runinto them and at any point run
into them at any point right andso you may, I run into you and
I tell my clients I don't carehow scary you are, show no fear,
because you actually have theupper hand, and you have to
remember that yeah, wow, so okay, I'm just, I'm so blown away
(37:46):
because you don't think of allof these things right, and in a
community such as small asbermuda.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Once again, I had no idea the numbers were that they
the way that they were, and then, knowing the all these
additional details, it's likereally eye-opening that this is
what a lot of people 7,000 womenin Bermuda are dealing with.
So when we think of abuse likeabuse doesn't always just start
out as abusive, right, likesomeone doesn't just come right
out and they are immediatelyphysically abusive to you like
(38:12):
what are some of the things forsomeone who's never been in an
abusive relationship before, um,that they should be looking out
for when in a relationship withan abuser that they don't know
is an abuser just yet?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
so it usually starts with controlling behaviors that
appear to be really nice.
Um, and so it's those telephonecalls all the time.
Oh, how's your day going um?
what you do today, simple rightbut me checking in with you,
asking you to call when you getwork or when you get home.
(38:44):
But when you don't do thosethings and it's now an argument
and the person is angry with you, that's control, that's abuse,
that's how, how you know it'snot genuine and after a while
that person stops callingbecause they now have you in a
cycle of calling and makingcontact all the time something
as simple as a phone call,something as simple as a phone
(39:07):
call starts you on a journeywhere you are now on eggshells.
If you've missed a phone call,because you know what that means
, oh, I've just started.
I've just started arguing.
You see how it starts?
Not, they're starting theargument.
You now are blaming yourselffor starting the argument
because you didn't answer thatphone.
You could be at work.
You didn't anything, anything.
(39:29):
The person's trying tomonopolize your time.
They know you're out with yourfriends, your work colleagues.
They're calling you.
They're blowing up your phonetexting you.
That's a sign that that personis trying to even control your
time and you're not with them sothat they are always on your
mind.
And even if you say, listen,you know, as I said, I'm out
with my friends, I'll talk toyou later.
(39:49):
Oh, so your friends are moreimportant than me.
The guilt trips, yeah, and sothose little things that seem
like nothing are actuallywarning signs that this person
is controlling, because they'renot outright abusive immediately
.
It might be that you've hadmale friends or female friends
(40:11):
for some time and oh, I don'tlike those people, I don't like
that person, and they try to nowisolate you from your friends
yeah yeah, telling you what towear.
I remember one lady saying thatshe went out on a date with some
guy and he came to her job withan outfit for her to wear this.
This man did not know me, shesaid, and bought an outfit for
(40:34):
me to wear on my first date.
She said it felt weird.
She said, but the ladies at herjob were like, oh, he's a good
catch.
Wow, look what he did for you.
No one at her job said no,honey, that's not a good first
date.
He's trying to even controlwhat you wear.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
That's a sign and that was early on, after she had
become a client this was.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
This was a person that wasn't a client.
Okay, got it.
This was just a friend tellinga story and she was saying that
that happened and she was like,she felt like it was weird.
She ended up not wearing it, um, and luckily it was just a
casual date.
She's like she went off toschool and years later here
(41:23):
comes somebody saying, oh, doyou know so and so, and she's
like, yeah, kind of, and it'slike, yeah, you know, they were
abusive to her, their wife, andshe was like, ah, there you go.
That's that feeling that I feltbecause he was being
controlling my first day, on afirst date, but it came across
as super sweet, super sweet,nice.
Oh, he's thinking of me.
(41:44):
Yes, he's thinking of me.
Yeah, but what I tell clientsis, if it doesn't feel right,
follow that first feeling,follow your gut, follow your
intuition, follow your Holyspirit.
Whatever is telling you thisain't right, don't silence it
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So I mean, as we kind of wrap up here, cause I told
you the time goes by so quickly,right?
Um, what is it that you wantfor anyone listening today who
may be experiencing domesticviolence or, like now I know,
intimate partner abuse, to knowwhat help should they take, what
steps should they take to gethelp?
If it doesn't mean immediatelycome into the center against
(42:21):
abuse, like, what would you wantthem to know after listening to
this conversation?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I want you to know that there's help available
number one, and get help in yourfear.
Don't wait for some epiphany tocome over you, because you're
always going to be fearful.
Get help in your fear.
Let us assist you through thatfear onto a space where you know
(42:51):
yourself, you understandyourself and you become strong
and you understand your strengthand it will come.
It will come.
You will always be fearful.
You actually have the upperhand.
Let us assist you with showingyou how you have the upper hand.
Bring your family with you,bring your friends with you for
support, and even those that arefamily members and friends and
(43:14):
they're on the periphery andsaying I've been doing this for
five years, six years, sevenyears, and it's been stressful
on me.
You give us a call too so thatwe can strengthen you, to assist
you with strengthening yourloved one.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
And then what would you say to people about breaking
the silence, because obviouslywe live in a very small
community around people wementioned earlier, around people
being very ashamed to comeforward.
What would you tell peoplearound that silence and that
shame?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The shame is not yours to wear.
The shame is not yours to have.
You've done nothing wrong.
You're trying to assist thatperson, to help that person, to
even, at times, fix that person.
The shame's not yours.
You'll be surprised by theoutpouring of support that you
get once you speak up and youspeak out.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
I love that.
And laurie, I know this is nota traditional hustle her episode
, but one of the things that Ialways want to know from my
guests is something that theywant to be remembered for, and
after 15 years in this spacedealing with, you know, abuse on
all levels what is somethingthat when someone mentioned to
you in the work that you did inthis space?
What is something that you wantto be remembered for having
(44:26):
done this work for so long?
Having done this work, for solong.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I want to be remembered for being gentle, for
being kind, for being open, forhaving a listening ear, for
understanding.
I want to be remembered assomeone that helped another
person.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
And then, finally, if anyone listening today is
experiencing abuse, know someonethat is experiencing abuse,
where can they go and how canthey make contact to get the
help that they need?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
So if you need help right now, 24 hour basis, we do
have a hotline.
Our hotline number is 297-8278.
You can also call our officeduring Monday through Friday,
nine to five, at 292-4366.
We're on Instagram.
We're're on facebook.
(45:14):
We have a website, as youmentioned earlier.
Um you can get us through anyof those channels.
You can send an email to infoat center against abuse, dot bm,
and center is the english way.
C, n, t-e.
Um.
We are here to assist you.
You don't need to give us yourname right away.
(45:34):
You can.
We've had calls from friends.
We've had calls from loved ones.
We've had calls from workplaces.
Um, we're here to assist you inevery way in maintaining your
physical and mental safety andhealth thank you, la Lori, so
much Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I really appreciate you.
I feel much more informed thanI was before and I'm hoping that
everyone who watches House ofHeart podcast feels the exact
same way.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Thank you, I hope so too.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yes, thank you.
All right, thank you, guys forspending some time with me today
.
We just had an amazing episodewith the executive director for
the Center Against Abuse, msLori Shield, who came and shared
some amazing statistics with usand some background around
domestic violence here inBermuda, as well as intimate
partner abuse and what that tollhas on all of the victims, as
well as the abusers and as wellas the additional family members
(46:23):
in those situations.
If you or anyone you know areexperiencing domestic violence
or need the help that youbelieve that they require or you
require, please reach out tothe Center Against Abuse here in
Bermuda.
Thank you for watching HustleHeart Podcast.
I'm a hustler baby.
It's time for Hustle Herpodcast.
I'm your host, deshae Caines.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, of motivation, a bit oftough love and some actionable
(00:26):
takeaways to be the best.
You, girl, you are in the rightplace.
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast.
As always, thank you forspending some time with me today
.
Big shout out to our seasonsponsors, 59 Front and Brown
Company.
This episode's sponsor isScooter Mart, as well as the
(00:46):
Women's Resource Center.
My guest today is someone thatI reached out to after seeing
some pretty interesting numbersonline about domestic violence.
So I reached out to the CenterAgainst Abuse and the lovely
Lori Shield agreed to be on thepodcast today.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome, lori.
Thank you so much for having me.
Deshay, it's a pleasure to beon the podcast today.
Welcome, laurie.
Thank you so much for having meto share.
It's a pleasure to be here yes,thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So before we jump right in, I always jump in with
some rapid fire questions justso people can kind of get to
know you, um, and then we'll gointo the meat of the
conversation.
Okay, I'm out for it.
All right, let's go.
I know it just passed, but whois your cut match team?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Somerset, of course.
Oh, Lori Sis, I'm a winner.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
This is what I love to hear.
I love it, I love it, I love it.
All right, what's your favoritetime of the day?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Morning, oh, so you're a morning person, I am a
morning person.
Okay, I get more done in themorning.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
By the afternoon I'm right, got you okay, um, all
right.
What would you say is yourbiggest strength?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
listening um perhaps providing feedback as well all
right, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay, and what's your favorite color?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
it depends on the year.
Each year I have a differentfavorite color.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So what is it for 2024?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
2024.
It is like a kelly green.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what was it 2023?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yellow.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh, okay, I love that you switch it up.
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's never the same color.
I don't have one favorite color.
Next year maybe it will be adifferent color.
It's just like somethingcatches my eye.
I'm like, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I love that Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What's your favorite thing to do with your husband?
Like the best date date night.
What's the best thing you liketo do?
The best thing I love to dowith my husband is to travel.
We both love to travel, um, andso planning the travel for us
is even exciting, nice.
So this year we are planningfor next year and so we're
hoping to do ethiopia, we'rehoping to do a European cruise,
and those are the things we haveplanned.
We usually do three big trips ayear, so one more is.
(02:50):
We're going to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, there we go.
I love it.
Love a little travel time.
Got to get off the island,definitely we do minimum two
weeks every time.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, and you have amazing skin, so tell me about
your skincare routine.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just started using a Korean skincare, so I've been
using it for the past three tofour months.
It's fermented ginseng I can'tpronounce the name Hi, hi, da,
ba, ba, da, something like that.
My sister lives in California,in Koreat korea town, and so was
(03:27):
there and she's right down thestreet from a korean mall and
was in there and happened uponthis product and I really love
it love it.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Okay, well, that's really good to know, okay.
So when I reached out to you,um, I I had seen an article
online that the policecommissioner had posted about
the numbers of domestic violencerising during the last
hurricane that we had I can'tremember the name of the
hurricane, yeah, but it was thelast one that we had last month
and how the domestic violencenumbers increased in Bermuda.
(03:59):
And it actually came from afriend of mine who sent me the
article and was like I had noidea that the domestic violence
numbers in Bermuda were the waythat they were.
And so I reached out to you andyou were like, yeah, it's, it's
pretty staggering, you know.
And I asked you know, would youlike to come on and talk about
it?
And so we definitely want todefinitely get into that.
But what I want to do first isfor you to tell me a bit of an
(04:21):
overview about the CenterAgainst Abuse and its mission
for Bermuda.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So Center Against Abuse.
We are in our 45th year.
We started back in 1979 underthe name the Physical Abuse
Center, and we currently provideservices which include
counseling.
We do legal advocacy, whichincludes assisting people with
protection orders, summaryoffense letters, going to court
(04:47):
with them if they have acriminal matter to support them.
We work very closely with thepolice department of child and
family services, as well asaging and disability um that
them and us make up a groupcalled the multi-agency risk
assessment committee.
We meet every other week todiscuss high-risk domestic abuse
(05:07):
cases in Bermuda.
We also provide what we callcommunity awareness and advocacy
and training in the communityon domestic abuse.
We try to hit the three R's.
We call it recognize andresponding and referring, and so
that's the basis of all of ourtraining that we do in the
(05:28):
community and whether it's achurch, whether it's a lunch and
learn at a business, whetherit's at a school with teachers,
when it comes to children, wetry to refer that to Coalition
for Protection of children Um.
We assist people with safehousing and resettlement um.
That is becoming more difficult, I have to say, because of the
(05:51):
prices in Bermuda and costs um,but we're working through it.
We work with him on that Um andso we try to assist individuals
who um find themselves inabusive situations, so anyone
over the age of 18, male orfemale, and below the age of 65,
(06:12):
we assist, and we provideassistance to survivors of
domestic abuse.
Well, let me put it this way weprovide assistance to survivors
of intimate partner abuse.
Okay, okay, so we intimatepartner abuse.
Okay, okay, so we're veryspecific not just the entire
brand of domestic abuse, butintimate partner abuse.
And then we also assist thosewho have been sexually assaulted
(06:36):
.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, all right.
So I guess, before we go on,just a little bit.
How did you get involved in thecenter against abuse and become
the ed?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I tell people god placed me here.
Wow, I um.
It goes back to childhood.
So I grew up with mygrandmother in my ear about
abuse, believe it or not,because she was a child that was
a victim of domestic abusewhere her parents were in an
abusive relationship.
Her father was abusive to hermother and she would tell me and
(07:07):
my sister this story about howshe was raised in an abusive
home and how she um, didn't wantus to repeat the cycle and she
would say it runs in your blood.
Wow, and now we're learning howtrauma now comes through the
bloodline.
This is a lady that had aprimary school um degree, okay,
(07:29):
and but she understood back thenthat abuse, trauma, is handed
down through the blood.
And so she would say I'mtelling you this not to shame my
dad, but so you won't repeatthe cycle.
Wow, and so that was her jobnot to repeat the cycle in her
family, to cut it off.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, wow, that's crazy.
So then you transitioned.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So then I transitioned into this by chance
, to be honest with you A friendof mine, deanna Durham.
She was on the board at theFiscal Abuse Center and she was
like, oh, we need somebody.
I'm moving on, loree, and Iwould like for you to replace me
.
And she reminds me she said Ichased you for about a year and
so I eventually came on.
At that time I was in HR andthey needed someone with HR
(08:14):
experience and so came on board,was on board for about a year
and then my HR job was beingmade redundant.
The executive director at thephysical abuse center at the
time she was going on asabbatical for her full-time job
.
Because she was part-time, theyasked me to come on for a year.
Here I am, 15 years later wow,that's what they say.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You look back in 15 years have flown by.
I was supposed to be here forone year one year and look at
you 14 years later, still hereyes, and making an amazing um
impact on our community so whenin when we think of domestic
violence or intimate partnerabuse in the sense of what we're
here to cover today, how doesit present itself in the
bermudian context like what dowe, what are we seeing the most
(09:00):
here?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
we see everything from physical abuse to verbal
abuse, the emotional abuse of itall.
Socially, people being abused,religious abuse.
We see as well find a lot offinancial abuse, and that shows
up in a lot of different ways.
Well, and some people see itwhen they remove themselves from
(09:26):
the person, so withholdingchild support, using the courts
as a means to financiallydeplete you through your, you
know, having to pay for a lawyer, and things like that.
And then the newest one,technological abuse.
We see a lot of tech abuse now,where people are now using your
(09:46):
phone to send you harassingemails, sending you harassing
voice notes, um, threatening,threatening you as well as
demanding your passwords,throwing your phones up against
the wall, breaking you know,computers, phones, all of that
you know and even thenthemselves putting information
(10:08):
that's untrue about you onsocial media.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And we're seeing a lot of that in the tech space.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yes, Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And then, with you know, things like WhatsApp and
Facebook and Instagram, yes, andthen you also have, like you
know, certain social media islike Snapchat, where you can see
it and then it's gone.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And then it disappears.
And so a lot of my clients now,as soon as something comes
through screenshot, theyscreenshot it immediately before
it disappears.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So one of the things that stood out the most to me
were the statistics and theprevalence of domestic violence
in Bermuda.
Right, and some of thestatistics show a significant
number of women and men inBermuda experiencing abuse,
right, can you share some ofthose alarming statistics that
most people don't know abouthere?
So?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
one of the most alarming statistics is that the
major call outs for police isdomestic abuse, so the most call
outs they have is for domesticabuse.
Prior to gang violence, themurder rate was due to domestic
abuse, wow, you know, and itcontinues today.
It didn't stop because of gangviolence, but it just is now
(11:13):
overshadowed by that.
The Bermuda Police Servicestarted because of a domestic
abuse murder, you know.
So domestic abuse didn't juststart here recently.
It's been around and we arestill tackling it.
Unfortunately, we saw ournumbers go up to 170 during the
(11:33):
pandemic.
Prior to that we were around120, 130 a year.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And this is when you say 120, 130, you're saying
clients, clients, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Clients coming into our office, right, and that's
not services, because servicesgo into, you know, 700s and all
of that right.
So clients coming into ouroffices annually, so, and today
we are at 123 clients today,today, and for those are men,
(12:06):
and so we are now seeing anotherincrease.
What we have seen an increasein since the pandemic is, year
on we have seen an increase inour numbers for counseling.
So last year I hired an extracounselor, so our counselors are
on call.
And last year I hired an extracounselor and this year we
(12:29):
surpassed our numbers from lastyear by May.
Wow, this year.
So our counseling piece hasgrown tremendously and we find
that people are now calling andasking for counseling which is
something specific yes, whichwas something that wasn't
happening before we were.
(12:51):
You know, especially in theblack community we find that
people kind of shy away fromcounseling.
But we are finding more andmore people of color calling and
saying I need some counseling,I need some help and what do you
think that is?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
What do you think the narrative has changed a bit
when it comes to counseling,especially in the black
community?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I would say people that have completed counseling
are now telling their friendslook what it did for me.
I encourage you to do it.
You've been in this too long.
You can't get yourself out.
You need some help.
So that has definitely assisted.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So when you've been in this too long, you can't get
yourself out, you need some help, yeah, so that has definitely
assisted so when I was goingthrough the website, I read and
I want to read this specificallythat over 7 000 women have
experienced domestic abuse intheir lifetime, which is about
27 of our population, femalepopulation here in bermuda.
What are some of the, I guess,factors that contribute to the
prevalence of this abuse inwomen specifically?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
yeah, and I would say specifically, even in bermuda,
we have such a tiny island and alot of it that contributes to
women staying is that they don'twant everybody know their
business.
Okay, speaking specificallyabout women, right, they don't
want everybody to know theirbusiness.
Okay, speaking specificallyabout women, right, they don't
(14:08):
want others to know theirbusiness.
They don't want it to appear asif they failed.
I failed in my marriage, Ifailed in my relationship.
I failed, as they feel as afailure as a parent, especially
when they're children.
Another contributing factor isthis is how I was raised, and
(14:29):
it's normal.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Wow, that generational thing we spoke
about, the generational cycle.
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then there is I love my partner.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Despite the abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Despite the abuse, because they're not bad all the
time.
I want you to understandbecause they're not bad all the
time.
I want you to understand thatthey're not bad all the time.
They have bad, bad moments,yeah, and so I put those bad
moments behind me and I look atthe good and when you are in an
abusive relationship.
Um, studies show that there isa chemical reaction to the abuse
(15:03):
, because there's a chemicalreaction to the makeup and so
you crave the makeup, right?
And so the brain quicklyforgets the abuse and craves the
makeup.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow, Because once you get past the abuse, the makeup
is so nice.
That oxytocin that pulls you inthat dopamine.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
All of that is raging in your body, and so that is
what's at the forefront for youeven even when you're being
abused, regardless of the typeof abuse that it is you're
mentally, you're just focused onwhen it gets better again
exactly when it gets betteragain and you know the
conversations that we have withour clients is you know, you are
actually addicted to thisperson.
Wow, it's an addiction.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It is an addiction wow, it's crazy how our brain
works right, how we processthings and, like you would think
and that's one of the things Iwant to talk to you about and
we'll get to it in a littlewhile is you think, when someone
is being abused, your naturalreaction is to leave?
Yes, but because it doesn'thappen all the time, like what
you're speaking about, yourbrain is making you think oh,
this is not that bad.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You stay in the situation in the situation and
because a lot of times whenyou're in that situation with
that person, you're seeking tohelp them, not yourself.
They need the help and womentraditionally and women
traditionally are fixers likethat.
Right, we want to help thatperson and the conversation that
I have with clients is is thatif you're not a professional,
(16:24):
you can't assist this person.
You can give them a place to go.
They have to help themselves.
You can only help yourself.
You cannot help someone elseother than giving them the
information so that they can gowhen they are ready.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you mentioned earlier that you've had some men
come in with domestic violence.
I think it was four for thisyear.
What are you, what would yousay, are some of the differences
in the trends you've observedbetween men and women facing
domestic violence?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
believe it or not, men stay in it longer because a
male ego will not admit to beinga victim will never admit to
being a victim, because they canhandle that person, whether
that partner is male or female.
They can handle that personbecause it's the male ego that's
speaking to them Right, and sothey tend to stay in it longer
(17:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
So when we think men in domestic violence like most
people, I guess when it comes todomestic violence and intimate
partner abuse, we tend toautomatically assume physical
right.
Violence and intimate partnerabuse, we tend to automatically
assume physical right.
Are we seeing physical when itcomes to men, or is it more
emotional, verbal or, in certainsituations, is it all of the
above?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
it's all of the above right.
Um, they experience the exactsame thing.
A female will go through, but,like I said, they tend to stay
in it longer, in particular,especially if it's in a same sex
relationship.
It's hidden, more got you it is,it does appear to us that it's
hidden more um, and while theperson may be publicly
(17:58):
homosexual, same sex, um, thatpart is still kind of a taboo
for a homosexual relationship tohave that right.
And so we find that people feelthat they may be judged, and so
that's another reason why theyhide it.
They don't know how they'regoing to be perceived or
received.
(18:19):
It's like, oh well, what do youexpect, especially if they go
to a church or your senate?
It's sinning so that's a part ofthe sin, and so that's a part
of the sin.
And if they were raised inchurch, they may feel that guilt
of it as well.
So it's a lot of factors withthe same sex.
But Center Against Abuse ishere for you.
(18:39):
We're a judgment-free zone.
Like I said, we assist anyonewho is a victim of intimate
partner abuse.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So we touched on it briefly around why it's
difficult for victims to leavetheir abusers, and you said it's
definitely a chemical reaction.
Are there other things that wecan essentially kind of educate
people on, on the reasons whypeople don't leave?
Because, I said it earlier,like the minute I hear that
someone or anyone hearssomeone's being abused, like
well, why would they stay inthat?
So, outside of what we kind ofspoke about already, what are
(19:09):
some of the additional factorsand why people stay in these
abusive relationships?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
they stay for the children they stay because they
think it's going to get better,because, remember, I fell in
love with this individual, andso that's the person I'm staying
for.
I'm not staying for the abuser,I'm staying for the person.
I fell in love with thisindividual, and so that's the
person I'm staying for.
I'm not staying for the abuser,I'm staying for the person I
fell in love with.
Um finances, I can't make it onmy own out here.
You know how expensive it is.
(19:35):
It's very expensive yeah and notonly is it expensive.
To make it on your own to tomove is expensive, right, yeah,
and so those costs areastronomical.
Yeah, I also stay because I ambeing told constantly that
(19:59):
nobody else is going to want me.
I'm being constantly belittled,and so leaving is not even in
my mind because I'm dealing withthe here and now.
I'm just fighting firesconstantly.
I'm trying to keep the peaceconstantly, and so leaving?
I can't think about that,because I'm just trying to keep
(20:19):
peace in my house.
Every day is trying to stayalive.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Every day is trying to stay alive.
Every day is trying to stayalive.
And if there's childrenfactored into that, taking care
of the kids I'm taking care ofthe kids.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I'm trying to keep the peace.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm just trying to keep the eggshells on the
perimeter until because you'repreparing for the next time that
I'm preparing for the next time, because I know it's going to
happen, but I'm just trying tokeep those eggshells on the
perimeter yeah, so when we weretalking initially, we were
speaking about um sexual abuse,intimate partner abuse, and a
lot of times people think ifyou're in a relationship, um, it
(20:54):
technically isn't abuse, but westill were speaking about no
means no, even in a relationshipeven in a relationship.
No means no yeah how often arewe seeing those types of things
happening when with intimatepartner abuse?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
in majority of intimate partner abuse there is
sexual abuse.
Wow, because your partner has alack of respect for you, has a
lack of um respect for yourviews and even your voice, in
particular your voice and soyou're no means nothing, because
to them they own you, you aretheirs and so you're no means
(21:28):
nothing.
In Bermuda we even have on ourbooks, we have spousal sexual
abuse as an act of a crime.
You know that people canactually take their spouse for
sexually assaulting them to thecourts.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, and I mean it's in the, I guess in the
definition of it.
You understand that that is thecase and that is abuse.
And if I say no, it means no,but you don't in, I'm assuming
in the moment, or when you thinkabout it that way.
It's like how can your partner,someone that you've already
been intimate with in that way,abuse you like that?
So I guess I don't know it.
(22:05):
Just I understand it Right.
Right, it makes complete sensewhen you explain it.
But then when you think aboutit on a deeper level and I guess
that's where the mental part ofit comes into is like I've
already been intimate with thisperson, but then they're
violating me in that way.
That's got to be a.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And you don't initially see it as that.
Right, it's just like let's gothis again.
You know, not listening to meand forcing themselves upon me
and you see it as that and okay,let me just do this and get it
over with.
But then, once they're sittingin my office and I have this
conversation and say, you know,has there ever been any sexual
(22:40):
abuse?
And initially it's like, well,no.
And then I continue with theconversation.
Have you ever performed sexualacts that you didn't want to,
that you said no to, that youwere forced to do?
Well, yes, you know, that'sjust a part of marriage.
Do you know, if I explain thisto you, what sexual assault is?
It's lack of consent.
(23:02):
If you did not consent, thatsexual assault.
And it's like if the same thinghappened with a stranger, what
would you call it?
Abuse, assault, sexual assault.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
and that's the aha moment because I'm telling you
you don't think about that, youdon't because this is the person
I love?
Yeah, and if you have childrenwith them, you've clearly
already been intimate with themand I've been intimate with them
wow so do you think thatthere's adequate legal
protection in bermuda fordomestic violence victims?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
no, what could we do better?
We could definitely tighten upall our laws, you know, in
particular around domestic abuse, because we don't have an
overarching domestic abuse act.
We only have a domestic abuseprotection orders act that only
speaks to protection orders.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And so if we had a overarching act which spoke to
domestic abuse in Bermudawhether it's with intimate
partners, whether it's someoneelse in your household, whether
it's with a senior we would havean understanding of what it
looks like, what it is, what'snot going to be tolerated right,
and so we need to hold abusersmore accountable in Bermuda.
(24:17):
What I find is, with theProtection Orders Act, if
someone breaches I've seenpeople breach 10 times and
they're bailed, and they'rebailed, and they're bailed, and
they're bailed and they'rebailed what do you think that
that does to the victim?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, what's the point of?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
me reporting it.
I'm reporting it, I'm reportingit.
I'm doing what I'm supposed todo Exactly.
And the person gets arrested,the person goes before the
courts, the person gets bailedand it may seem like, oh well,
they're just stalking you, oh,they just called you.
But do you know what that'sdoing to me internally, to my
mental health, and especially ifI'm the primary parent, how am
(24:57):
I now parenting in fear?
How is that being nowtranslated to my children?
Yeah, and so these are thethings that need to be looked at
when someone continually getsbailed, because it's also
reinforcing with the perpetratorwhat it is no big deal, no big
(25:18):
deal, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I'll just go to court , get bailed out.
I'm gonna get bailed and it'llbe fine.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
It'll be fine and I'll be off to do whatever I
wish to do again so if someonedoes violate that protection
order um act well, I guess orderright um and they get bailed.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
What happens?
Do we have a rate of peoplegoing to prison or jail for
abuse?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Very low.
Even if they are, there is acriminal area that they go
through rather than the civil,which is the protection orders.
It sometimes takes a year, twoyears three years for the matter
to actually finally be heard inthe court, years for the matter
to actually finally be heard inthe court.
(26:02):
And some people feel as if thematter is taken so long so that
you could, you would just goaway.
They feel like their mattersaren't important to the courts
and you know it's because it'spersonal.
This is personal to me and soI'm feeling offended by the
(26:24):
courts because I keep gettingput on the back burner.
Oh well, we have a murder trialand and your lawyer has to be
in that, so that's moreimportant than your matter.
So these are things thatvictims are constantly hearing
when it comes to criminalmatters for domestic abuse, and
it has has an impact that Idon't matter to even the courts.
They don't see this asimportant.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, so what does the Center Against Abuse do in
those instances in terms ofsupport for people who are going
?
They've done what they'resupposed to do and it's not
coming up in the system?
You know, in a way, that wewould like to see, in terms of
expediency, how do you supportthem in the system?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
you know, in a way, that we would like to see in
terms of expediency.
How do you support them?
So once we hear something, Imay call the police.
I may even work with the DPPand say listen, this person was
released.
Or we try to head it off priorto, especially if it's a high
risk individual.
It means that we're going tocall the police and say have a
call, have a talk with the DPPand say have a call, have a talk
with the DPP and say objectionsto bail.
(27:23):
Objections to bail because of A, b, c and D and those are
criminal matters right.
And so we have been good in thatarea.
Where objections to bail havebeen upheld by the courts, or if
they haven't, we've kind of putsomething in place.
Okay, we're going to ask thepolice to do drive-bys by your
(27:45):
house, and we discussed withthem a serious safety plan put
in place.
They may not even be staying,they may be staying somewhere
else.
That is safe.
But we have to work as a teamwith the police and even
Department of Child and FamilyServices, if there are children
involved, to ensure thateverybody is kept safe.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
So you mentioned earlier that most of your
clients, or your clients thatyou have remit over, are between
the ages of 18 and 65.
That's correct, but pre-show.
We were speaking about how, alot of times in these intimate
partner abuse situations, thechildren are witnessing, yes to
this, what happens in thosesituations?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
in those situations, especially if I'm hearing your
full story.
Um, I will ask you isdepartment of child and family
services involved in your life?
Do you have a case worker?
Because we want to get thechildren some assistance.
If it isn't, I might say to youhave a conversation with even
(28:44):
if you are involved with Childand Family Services, I will say
have a conversation with yourschool counselor.
There's someone that are goingto see your children on a
regular.
Get them to understand whatyour children have seen, what
they have witnessed, so thatthey can bring them in.
And they have that someone thatthey see five days a week, from
(29:07):
9 to 3, 3.30, that can assistyour child through transitions.
Even speak with the teacher,right, because if your child's
acting up in class, the teacherneeds to understand.
My child's not acting upbecause my child's being rude,
my child's tired because we wereup late last night because I
had a domestic.
(29:27):
My child woke to me crying orwoke to me screaming, right, and
so once a teacher understandsthat they're going to understand
.
Oh, I see you acting up.
I'm going to need to hug you orlet me just have you spend some
time with the school counselortoday, because those are the
children we need to love ratherthan discipline.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Absolutely so.
You mentioned, when we weretalking pre-show as well around
some of the new findings thatyou've been made aware of about
children who are experiencingdomestic abuse as opposed to
actually being witnessing it, asopposed to being abused.
Tell me a bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So studies show that children who experience domestic
abuse have rate mental healthissues higher than children who
are being abused directlythemselves.
That's a wow, and so if wedon't get a grip on that, it
then continues the cycle, right.
(30:25):
And so that's why it'simportant that your child, if
they are in an abusive situation, that they receive some type of
assistance, that theyunderstand what love is, because
right now, love is looking alot crazy to me, and I'm feeling
it crazy because here are myparents in front of me having
(30:46):
issues.
Who do I go with?
How do I protect this person?
I don't want to see my otherparent go to jail.
I don't want to see the policeit to jail.
I don't want to see the police.
It's a lot on a child's mind,right, and they're going to
school with it.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
They don't know how to process it yeah, and then
when we talk about cycles, umand generational, you know
cycles, these things, even ifthey're witnessing it.
But they can potentially be inenvironments where they are
either being abused or being theabuser as they get become
adults oh, yes, most definitely.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Um, you heard me speak earlier how my grandmother
was in a household where herparents were abusive.
Now she made a consciousdecision that no more for her
and her family.
She had a brother.
She had two brothers and one.
Both of them were alcoholics.
One was an alcoholic and anabuser, just like their father,
(31:32):
and him and his girlfriendfought like cats and dogs.
This is how my granny tells thestory, and he must have went at
the girlfriend one day and shesaid I've had enough.
She stabbed him 119 times.
She was the last female to behung in Bermuda.
This is what happened when thecycle is not broken, and this is
(31:54):
why it's so important thatpeople are going to counseling
right this is why it's soimportant that people get
counseling, and what studieshave also shown is when those
children are being loved upon byfamily members, those that they
trust, this can also changetheir brain.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Waves can change the chemical makeup in their brain
to remove the abuse and theturmoil that they're feeling in
their lives and give them somehope for a healthy future so
what can people do who arewitnessing or know of abuse
that's going on in relationshipswith children and the person
(32:36):
who is being abused has left,but they've gone back?
How can they support thatfamily or that person in their
journey through domestic abuse,especially intimate partner
abuse, which is what we'respecifically talking about?
How can they be supportive ofthem as opposed to well, they
won't leave.
So I'm done helping.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
How can we be more supportive?
And's hard, let me be honest.
It's very hard to support avictim who continually goes back
right um, but we have to yeahwe have to.
We have to be in there for thelong run, because isolation is
the perpetrator's biggest tool,isolating you from friends and
family.
That's when I have total power,right.
And so friends and family needto stay in the life.
(33:18):
Friends and family need to stayin that person's ear and have
those conversations with theimportance of raising the
children in healthy spaces,being in a healthy space
yourself so that you can behealthy for your children, being
in a healthy space yourself sothat you can be healthy for your
children, because a lot oftimes when you're not in a
(33:38):
healthy space, somebody else iswatching and will take advantage
of your children.
And so getting that pointacross, that making yourself,
making your children number onein your life, encouraging them
to seek help, going with them toseek help if you need to, um,
just intervention, intervention,intervention.
You know it soon becomesreality for them.
(34:00):
It soon becomes reality everytime you intervene there's a
seed being planted in thatperson, and so don't stop.
As hard as it is, as irritatedas you may get, don't't take it
personal that they they, you'renot offended, that they didn't
listen to you.
They have listened.
It's just really hard right now.
And ask them how can I help?
(34:21):
Yeah, how can I help you,because it may be something as
simple as listen.
I need a place to stay.
I had to go back because theplace I was at was only
temporary.
I didn't have a permanent placeto stay.
You know, maybe it means acouple of family members getting
together, paying $100 each amonth to assist with rent for a
time until that person gets ontheir feet, you know.
(34:43):
So there's a lot of things.
But ask the person how can Ihelp?
Also, we also focus a lot onthe victim.
We also need to focus on theperpetrator.
If that perpetrator is yourfriend, you need to be having
conversations with them in thesame way.
That's not on Understand.
I see what you're doing and I'mnot going to stand for it.
I'm going to assist the victimwith getting some help, with
(35:09):
calling the police police, withsupporting them, with supporting
your children.
No, I'm sorry you can't be apart of this group anymore
because we don't accept thattype of behavior.
You need some help me.
You need some help, yeah acegirl.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, it's a good call out because, in a community
as small as bermuda as well,more than likely not all the
time, but more than likely ifyou know the victim, you know
the abuser, you know the abuser,the abuse is not walking around
here friendless.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You know it's the truth, it's the truth.
So you know people need to stepup to the abuser whether it's
siblings, friends, parents,cousins, whomever and have a
serious talk.
Listen, if you don't toe theline how you're supposed to,
some things are going to happento you.
(35:54):
You can end up in case mates,I'm sorry, I'm dating myself
west gate, yes, at the othergate, and and or you know, we
find this behavior unacceptable.
Yeah, you can't be on this likethis especially because there's
no consequences for youractions.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Exactly right, I mean , it's one thing if the legal
system, but then if life goes onas normal, if your friends are
still your friends, if yourfamily is still treating me the
exact same, what?
What is the need to change?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
what is the need to change?
No, you need to get some help.
We need to assist you andputting you in a program,
because this is clearlysomething that you you don't
have a handle on and that you'renot interested, but we need to
assist you with gettinginterested you're absolutely,
honestly, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I'm so grateful that you said that, because even when
I was doing the research forthis and I was looking up the
different things, uh, aboutabuse, very rarely do we talk
about the help that the abuserneeds in order to stop, you know
, doing the things that they'redoing to the victims.
We want the victims to getcounseling, want them to get all
the support that they need, butif they're trying to get a hold
and healed and their abuserisn't, what is the point?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right, because I've left the person and guess what?
They're still abusing me,they're still harassing me,
they're still stalking me.
The behaviors are still there.
And that's the sad part is thatsometimes, when you leave, the
behaviors do not stop you justhave to set up these tighter
boundaries and tighterboundaries.
So there's a hole there.
Let me set that up.
And you know, sometimes it meansI need to change my number, I
need to change my routines andin bermuda it's got to be so
(37:23):
difficult because you could runinto them and at any point run
into them at any point right andso you may, I run into you and
I tell my clients I don't carehow scary you are, show no fear,
because you actually have theupper hand, and you have to
remember that yeah, wow, so okay, I'm just, I'm so blown away
(37:46):
because you don't think of allof these things right, and in a
community such as small asbermuda.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Once again, I had no idea the numbers were that they
the way that they were, and then, knowing the all these
additional details, it's likereally eye-opening that this is
what a lot of people 7,000 womenin Bermuda are dealing with.
So when we think of abuse likeabuse doesn't always just start
out as abusive, right, likesomeone doesn't just come right
out and they are immediatelyphysically abusive to you like
(38:12):
what are some of the things forsomeone who's never been in an
abusive relationship before, um,that they should be looking out
for when in a relationship withan abuser that they don't know
is an abuser just yet?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
so it usually starts with controlling behaviors that
appear to be really nice.
Um, and so it's those telephonecalls all the time.
Oh, how's your day going um?
what you do today, simple rightbut me checking in with you,
asking you to call when you getwork or when you get home.
(38:44):
But when you don't do thosethings and it's now an argument
and the person is angry with you, that's control, that's abuse,
that's how, how you know it'snot genuine and after a while
that person stops callingbecause they now have you in a
cycle of calling and makingcontact all the time something
as simple as a phone call,something as simple as a phone
(39:07):
call starts you on a journeywhere you are now on eggshells.
If you've missed a phone call,because you know what that means
, oh, I've just started.
I've just started arguing.
You see how it starts?
Not, they're starting theargument.
You now are blaming yourselffor starting the argument
because you didn't answer thatphone.
You could be at work.
You didn't anything, anything.
(39:29):
The person's trying tomonopolize your time.
They know you're out with yourfriends, your work colleagues.
They're calling you.
They're blowing up your phonetexting you.
That's a sign that that personis trying to even control your
time and you're not with them sothat they are always on your
mind.
And even if you say, listen,you know, as I said, I'm out
with my friends, I'll talk toyou later.
(39:49):
Oh, so your friends are moreimportant than me.
The guilt trips, yeah, and sothose little things that seem
like nothing are actuallywarning signs that this person
is controlling, because they'renot outright abusive immediately
.
It might be that you've hadmale friends or female friends
(40:11):
for some time and oh, I don'tlike those people, I don't like
that person, and they try to nowisolate you from your friends
yeah yeah, telling you what towear.
I remember one lady saying thatshe went out on a date with some
guy and he came to her job withan outfit for her to wear this.
This man did not know me, shesaid, and bought an outfit for
(40:34):
me to wear on my first date.
She said it felt weird.
She said, but the ladies at herjob were like, oh, he's a good
catch.
Wow, look what he did for you.
No one at her job said no,honey, that's not a good first
date.
He's trying to even controlwhat you wear.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
That's a sign and that was early on, after she had
become a client this was.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
This was a person that wasn't a client.
Okay, got it.
This was just a friend tellinga story and she was saying that
that happened and she was like,she felt like it was weird.
She ended up not wearing it, um, and luckily it was just a
casual date.
She's like she went off toschool and years later here
(41:23):
comes somebody saying, oh, doyou know so and so, and she's
like, yeah, kind of, and it'slike, yeah, you know, they were
abusive to her, their wife, andshe was like, ah, there you go.
That's that feeling that I feltbecause he was being
controlling my first day, on afirst date, but it came across
as super sweet, super sweet,nice.
Oh, he's thinking of me.
(41:44):
Yes, he's thinking of me.
Yeah, but what I tell clientsis, if it doesn't feel right,
follow that first feeling,follow your gut, follow your
intuition, follow your Holyspirit.
Whatever is telling you thisain't right, don't silence it
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So I mean, as we kind of wrap up here, cause I told
you the time goes by so quickly,right?
Um, what is it that you wantfor anyone listening today who
may be experiencing domesticviolence or, like now I know,
intimate partner abuse, to knowwhat help should they take, what
steps should they take to gethelp?
If it doesn't mean immediatelycome into the center against
(42:21):
abuse, like, what would you wantthem to know after listening to
this conversation?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I want you to know that there's help available
number one, and get help in yourfear.
Don't wait for some epiphany tocome over you, because you're
always going to be fearful.
Get help in your fear.
Let us assist you through thatfear onto a space where you know
(42:51):
yourself, you understandyourself and you become strong
and you understand your strengthand it will come.
It will come.
You will always be fearful.
You actually have the upperhand.
Let us assist you with showingyou how you have the upper hand.
Bring your family with you,bring your friends with you for
support, and even those that arefamily members and friends and
(43:14):
they're on the periphery andsaying I've been doing this for
five years, six years, sevenyears, and it's been stressful
on me.
You give us a call too so thatwe can strengthen you, to assist
you with strengthening yourloved one.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
And then what would you say to people about breaking
the silence, because obviouslywe live in a very small
community around people wementioned earlier, around people
being very ashamed to comeforward.
What would you tell peoplearound that silence and that
shame?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The shame is not yours to wear.
The shame is not yours to have.
You've done nothing wrong.
You're trying to assist thatperson, to help that person, to
even, at times, fix that person.
The shame's not yours.
You'll be surprised by theoutpouring of support that you
get once you speak up and youspeak out.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
I love that.
And laurie, I know this is nota traditional hustle her episode
, but one of the things that Ialways want to know from my
guests is something that theywant to be remembered for, and
after 15 years in this spacedealing with, you know, abuse on
all levels what is somethingthat when someone mentioned to
you in the work that you did inthis space?
What is something that you wantto be remembered for having
(44:26):
done this work for so long?
Having done this work, for solong.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I want to be remembered for being gentle, for
being kind, for being open, forhaving a listening ear, for
understanding.
I want to be remembered assomeone that helped another
person.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
And then, finally, if anyone listening today is
experiencing abuse, know someonethat is experiencing abuse,
where can they go and how canthey make contact to get the
help that they need?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
So if you need help right now, 24 hour basis, we do
have a hotline.
Our hotline number is 297-8278.
You can also call our officeduring Monday through Friday,
nine to five, at 292-4366.
We're on Instagram.
We're're on facebook.
(45:14):
We have a website, as youmentioned earlier.
Um you can get us through anyof those channels.
You can send an email to infoat center against abuse, dot bm,
and center is the english way.
C, n, t-e.
Um.
We are here to assist you.
You don't need to give us yourname right away.
(45:34):
You can.
We've had calls from friends.
We've had calls from loved ones.
We've had calls from workplaces.
Um, we're here to assist you inevery way in maintaining your
physical and mental safety andhealth thank you, la Lori, so
much Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I really appreciate you.
I feel much more informed thanI was before and I'm hoping that
everyone who watches House ofHeart podcast feels the exact
same way.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Thank you, I hope so too.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yes, thank you.
All right, thank you, guys forspending some time with me today
.
We just had an amazing episodewith the executive director for
the Center Against Abuse, msLori Shield, who came and shared
some amazing statistics with usand some background around
domestic violence here inBermuda, as well as intimate
partner abuse and what that tollhas on all of the victims, as
well as the abusers and as wellas the additional family members
(46:23):
in those situations.
If you or anyone you know areexperiencing domestic violence
or need the help that youbelieve that they require or you
require, please reach out tothe Center Against Abuse here in
Bermuda.
Thank you for watching HustleHeart Podcast.
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