Hustle Her - Christie

Have you ever wondered how embracing courage could transform your life? Join us for a candid conversation with Christie Hunter-Arscott, advisor, speaker, and author of "Begin Boldly," as she shares her wisdom on authentic interactions, the importance of deeper conversations, and the power of choosing courage over confidence. Christie reveals the happiest moments of her life, often spent with family by the sea, and highlights her extraordinary ability to connect with people from all walks of life. From her favorite color to her allegiance to Somerset in Cup Match, we paint a vivid picture of Christie's vibrant and multi-faceted personality.

Together, we navigate the journey from childhood dreams to reality, discussing the impact of childhood asthma on sports participation and the creative vs. athletic dichotomy. Christie and I explore the societal pressures children face about future careers, advocating for broader aspirations and identities over rigid professional paths. Reflecting on our teenage years and unpredictable career trajectories, we emphasize the importance of using one’s voice and gifts for meaningful impact, rather than being confined by a single professional label.

Christie also opens up about the complexities of balancing marriage, motherhood, and career, sharing personal anecdotes about her life with her husband Ramon, a distinguished MD. We delve into the challenges of interracial parenting, the importance of a supportive partnership, and the joys of rediscovering personal identities as mothers. This episode is packed with invaluable insights and practical advice for women striving for personal and professional growth, making it a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and empowerment. Tune in and be inspired to live boldly and authentically!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm a hustler baby.
It's time for Hustle Herpodcast.
I'm your host, Deshae Caines.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, of motivation, a bit oftough love and some actionable

(00:26):
takeaways to be the best.
You, girl, you are in the rightplace.
Hey guys, this episode isbrought to you by Scudamart.
At Scudamart, you can buy, sellor rent a bike with them.
Make sure you head over totheir Hamilton location on
Church Street or their pageantlocation on Lover's Lane, or
them on wwwscootamarbm.

(00:48):
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast.
As always, thank you forspending some time with me today
.
I really do appreciate it.
Big shout out to our seasonsponsors, 59 Front and Brown
Company.
Also, thank you to Scootamarfor supporting this episode
today.
So I am incredibly excitedabout my guest today.
Not only is she my friend, butshe is an advisor, she is a

(01:09):
speaker and she is an author ofthe amazing book Begin Boldly,
Miss Christy Hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Asghar, how are you?
I'm good.
Thanks for having me, jashea.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yes, thank you for being here.
I appreciate it.
Awesome, let's get started.
Let's go.
Are you ready?
Yeah, she has given uspermission to have a very candid
conversation, so we're excited.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
One thing actually.
It relates to my research.
I didn't even say that.
I told to Shay that she can askme anything and everything.
We also have done zero prep.
We have not even done a call.
I have no idea what she's gonnaask.
So that might be a testament toboth of our schedules and lives
exactly, but it also means thatit'll be real and raw and off

(01:53):
the cuff and I love that I.
In my research I found thatwomen, and generally, want to
know the woman behind the bio wedon't want just the shiny, you
know headshots and accolades andthis is where they went to
school, yeah, and so I thinkthat there's such a need for
deeper conversation I totallyagree and I'm always happy what

(02:14):
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I'm always happy when peopleallow that as well, because
sometimes people want to, youknow, kind of navigate the
conversation from behind of alens a bit, and so when you're
giving carte blanche to kind ofacts whatever in a very
respectful way, like I tellpeople all the time I'm not tmz,
like I'm not trying to break astory, so that is not what we're
doing here, so I'm very happyabout that.
All right, so we're going tostart with a few rapid fires and
then we'll we'll dig in.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Sure, cool, all right , I'm happiest when can I give
multiple yes, so one isdefinitely around my family,
okay, um, which is, you know,traditional but very, very true
for me, and the other is inhonor, under the water.

(02:59):
I am truly, truly happiest bythe sea, which is why I feel so
lucky to live here.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
I know, I know, I know.
I love going by the water,especially when it's like a calm
, flat day.
It's like perfection.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
And it makes you feel so small like gives you such
perspective on life.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Absolutely, totally agree, all right, what is your
biggest strength?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I would say I would say one thing I definitely feel
about myself is that I loveinteracting with people from all
walks of life.
I think Bermuda and myupbringing really contributed to
that, because you have thislike mix match of an amazing
society all condensed into asmaller space and just to build

(03:40):
upon that, not just having asuperficial level of
conversation with people, likegoing deeper in those
interactions with peopleabsolutely okay.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Um, all right, let's go a little lighter, favorite
color like a turquoise sea colorwe'll give it away, okay and um
, tell me a little, okay, no, Iknow it just passed and I think
I know the answer.
But who's your cut match teamSomerset?
No, really, I'm excited.
I would have assumed, I assume.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
St George's.
No, so the she would know this,but I I was born and raised in
Somerset, in Covello Bay area,at the bottom of.
Scottsdale and spent my entirechildhood there, and now we live
in St George's, but I amdiehard red and blue.
There we go, my son went beforehe could talk was in red and

(04:29):
blue.
Now he is, you know, defected.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
But yeah, they come out of you.
You can't even trust them Likethat time of the year you just
can't do it.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Born in Somerset, living in St George's.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, I'm pleasantly surprised, I was not expecting
that answer answer and it, butthat's okay.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
All right, tell me about the perfect date night
with your husband so we had areally great one last night,
actually, and so I'll speak tothat.
Um, we went out.
Uh well, these two individualsinvited us over to their house
and, um, they're both originallyfrom abroad.

(05:06):
Amazing individual, completelydifferent walks of life in their
70s.
I love that, and one of them isRamon's patient.
Then one of them is like afriend of a friend.
Conversations around life,marriage, relationship, family,
pursuits of joy, adventure,physical fitness, health, and my

(05:32):
husband and I originallyconnected because of our love of
interacting with all people andall walks of life and it's
harder to carve that out.
But those moments of likeintergenerational friendships,
wisdom sharing, sitting at atable together and asking
questions with people over ameal I'm pregnant, I would have
preferred if I could have drankwine, but it's all good, but

(05:55):
yeah, it was just beautiful andI love those kind of moments.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, I love that.
And then, finally, we're allabout the skincare routines here
, ever since we had a long dayon the podcast, so tell me about
how you keep that skin so great, so this is actually one of my
other passions.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So yes, so I am.
I always describe myself asmulti passionate and actually
you don't know this about me, soit's a great question.
So I run the skin, I help runthe skincare side of our Scott
plastic surgery.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Did not know that.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
So for almost 10 years I've been researching
medical grade skincare,attending the conferences,
trained in it, bringing in andsourcing our products for a
range of ethnicities andbackgrounds and concerns,
particularly looking at women'shealth and kind of the stages
you go through from puberty tochildbearing years to menopause

(06:47):
and beyond and how that waxesand wanes.
And I actually was diagnosedwith basal cell cancer when I
was in my early twenties and soI'm super passionate about sun
protection.
So that's a little bit.
I was like you got way morethan you expected.
It's okay, I'm okay with that,I love that.
But, um, I we have this linethat I absolutely love.
That's called skin betterscience and, um, so I swear by

(07:14):
it and, uh, really enjoy it.
But my biggest thing for peopleis find a trusted provider who
uses medicine and evidence tohelp you with your routine.
And, um, sephora, you could goin there and no, I spend a lot
of money in there still, but um,but you could go in and be
subject to marketing and so manythings matter how things are,
what container they're in, arethey oxidized, what kind of

(07:35):
dropper they have, are theyexposed, what element?
And we're so subject as women.
They like prey on our fearsaround skin.
Yeah, so I would say less ismore.
Find someone to guide youthrough the different stages of
life, the different seasons.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
So absolutely, because I'm telling you what I
used to do with my skin when Iwas in high school, early
college.
I could not do now I'd breakout in a heartbeat like your
skin evolves as you get olderand no one tells you about those
things, which is kind oftotally so I'm talking about
that when it's funny.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Funny because, like young me, wouldn't have gone on
this.
You know, show, six and a halfmonths pregnant, all of these
things.
And today I woke up and I wasbreaking out and there were all
of these different things goingon and you kind of learn that
there's no perfect condition,perfect skin, perfect physical
condition, perfect mindset.
You just you're never ready,you just have to go do it, and

(08:25):
so I think that's so importantto know, but also know that
there's no silver bullet forthings in life.
It's all an experiment and atdifferent stages you're going to
have to be trying differentthings.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I love that.
All right, christy, so let'stake it back.
Tell me about little Christy.
What were you like as a child?
What did you like to get into?
Like?
Were you outspoken?
Were you quiet?
Fill me in all the details.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Oh gosh, I feel like a mix of all of those things.
At different stages, I'vealways felt feelings very deeply
, okay so, and I'm still likethat, like when I feel an
emotion, like when I feelsadness or grief or love or
distress about the state of theworld, I feel it like and it is

(09:12):
sometimes at some point allconsuming.
And as a child I was also likethat.
Um, I'm also someone that, ontop of being feeling, is very
analytical and like, takes astep back and looks at
interactions and the ways of theworld.
And I feel like I was also likethat as a child.
I was very aware from a youngage of like in groups and out

(09:32):
groups and who was being leftout, and I feel like I had that
awareness from the time I waslike seven.
Um, I think I had a lot of, Ithink there was like that I
liked to use my voice, but a lotof as I got older, particularly
, I feel like 10 onwards, youstart to get or at least I did
this awareness of like thingsyou should be self-conscious of,

(09:55):
or your own kind of barriersthat you put up for yourself,
and then you kind of take someof your twenties and thirties on
working.
That, which is part of thereason I wrote the book, is like
we all deal with those internaldialogues and questions and
everything.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, but I also love to be by the sea.
I loved art, a lot of thingsthat are still me.
I loved yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Okay.
So when you, when I said, whenI say little and little, Christy
, like what did you like to dofor fun as well, Like were you
into sports?
How old Christy, like what didyou?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
like to do for fun as well.
Like, were you into sports?
How old?
Okay, let's say eight.
So, um, eight.
I loved art, um, and I put thaton hold for a long time for
other activities and pursuitsand I find that at this stage of
my life, like I'm delving intothat so much more and it's part
of my passion for interiors andinterior styling, like I did our
practice, the medical practice,I've done our home, multiple

(10:49):
other spaces, and like that isalmost like a form of artistic
expression which I love.
Um, I loved being outdoors,which I still do, and it's so
interesting as you get older andyou're researching younger,
like there's all of thesestudies around why walking
outside in bare feet isgrounding, or being by the ocean

(11:09):
is this, or beings in sunlightearly in the morning, and I feel
like from a young child, thosewere things that I really
enjoyed, um, I really enjoyedand, if we're looking a little
bit further out, um, doingthings in honor under the water.
So one thing I did as a childwas my dad was big into
freediving, lobstering,spearfishing, and we were

(11:31):
fortunate enough to live on thewater, and I was big into public
speaking and debating, I thinkfrom the time I was like 10 or
11.
But it was amazing becausethere was this activity that
brought complete silence andperspective in a world for me
that was so, I guess, dominatedby speech and ideas and debating
.
You know, you're 12 years oldand they're telling you to

(11:53):
debate.
You know apartheid and they'retelling you to debate euthanasia
, and these are all really heavytopics for that age and like
something about getting underthe water and just testing
yourself physically was reallyenlightening.
Um, the last thing I would say.
I mean, you said what did youdo?
I'll tell you what I didn't do.
I was not good at sports, um,and I was severely asthmatic,

(12:15):
and if you talk to the PEteachers at BHS, they'll still
talk about, um, me and my pumpand being pulled to the side and
then walking me to my mom'soffice and worried that
something would happen, and sothat was always a struggle for
me, um, but over the years I wasreally, really dedicated to
like improving my fitness sothat I could have better lung

(12:35):
capacity, better lung control,all of these different aspects,
and it's not the end all be allof asthma control.
But one of the things I'm stillproudest of is like when that
little girl who couldn't runfrom her house to her neighbor's
house can now well, not at sixand a half months pregnant, but
typically run further and investin that, so that's something

(12:55):
that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, absolutely no.
It's so interesting when youask different people about the
childhood and what activitiesthey kind of got into.
It's.
I love when people are like Iwas very creative, right, and
then it's almost always I wascreative but I didn't play
sports.
Like it's so weird how thathappens sometimes and just just
from doing the podcast, likeI've never done any you know
significant research on it.
But just with those me someonealways says I was very creative

(13:19):
but I just was not into sportsat all.
It's like very, very, veryconsistent.
When it comes to that, I thinkI would be into sports if I was
capable.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
But let's be clear, I was clearly incapable.
Yes, the asthma.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
The asthma took you out, and that's okay.
It's nothing wrong with that atall because I'm not creative at
all, but I did play a few sportsgrowing up, but that that was
it.
I couldn't draw a straight lineif, if, I tried.
But you know it is what it is.
Oh my, you know the sip andpainting things that people do
and mine are always awful, likeI'm like come just draw it on
here and I'll just fill it in.
Like it's just too much afterthat.
But when you think of like whoyou were as like a teenager and

(13:55):
who you kind of wanted, what youwanted to do when you went to
school, university, this roadscholar, um, and you went to
Oxford, all of things Like whatwould you say was like something
that was pivotal in kind ofshaping who you wanted to be,
career wise, in those formativeteen years.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I don't think I knew who I wanted to be career wise,
and I actually like feel prettystrongly like we shouldn't ask
kids what they want to be whenthey grow up.
Because I think it's so much putso much pressure on a singular
identity and a singularprofession when one the
professions that they're goinginto with AI and all these

(14:35):
developments are going to lookso much different.
But then the other thing islike we can have multifaceted
lives and careers, and sometimescareers are an integral part of
our identity in life andsometimes they're not, and I
think it would be better to askpeople who they want to be Like.
I think I knew I wanted to usemy voice and the, the gifts that

(14:59):
I've been given and I mean thisin the in the broadest sense,
like the ability to have aneducation, the ability to have
mentors, great parents, like acommunity that supported me,
exposure to different things foran impact on issues that I
cared about.
But I don't think I knew whatthat looked like.
I don't think in my wildestdreams I could have imagined a
career like I have now ever.

(15:20):
So I don't think I knew.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, no, I totally agree with you about asking kids
, uh, what they want to be.
And my dad said to me when Iwas going into university he was
like I think you should go inundecided.
Um, and he was like because allof your life 100.
He was like all of your lifepeople have told you because
you're outspoken, you know bossy, all the things girls that had
strong personalities get labeledaggressive, all of those things

(15:43):
that we now know are bad.
Oh, you should be a lawyerbecause, okay, great, you speak,
whatever.
Um, he was like I don't thinkyou want to be a lawyer.
He was like I don't think thatthat's what you want to do.
And he was like I think youshould go in undecided and kind
of figure it out.
And of course, I knew it all at18 and I was like how could you
say that to me?
Blah, blah, blah.
And literally halfway through mymy degree, I was like I do not

(16:07):
want to be a lawyer, like I waspretty adamant about it and like
I was working in a law firm onmy internships and I was just
like this is literally awful.
And my mom was.
I was like I couldn't do thisfor the rest of my life and my
mom's an educator.
So she was.
I wanted to change my major.
She was like well, you're overhalfway through this degree, so
you're probably gonna need to doa double because you're not
wasting my money.
But literally, and when Ichanged my major, my dad was

(16:28):
like he just kind of looked atme and I was like we're not even
going to talk about it.
But I wish I would havelistened to him because I would
have saved myself extra time,because he was 1000% right, like
I've never.
And I tell people that nowpeople kind of look at you like
you're crazy.
I'm like if you're not sure,it's okay, you can figure it out
.
Especially if you're going toschool in the US.
Like those first two years arejust, you know, regular classes

(16:49):
anyway, like prereqs.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
They're not like actually into whatever degree it
is that you're doing I don'tthink you know till you try
either, like I remember being atthis point of indecision
indecision after my grad schoolin Oxford and being like I don't
know what I want to pursue jobwise and you don't just suddenly
like, like your finger, put itup and like, oh I know, like you
don't know till you, experimentand try and that's a lot of the

(17:11):
themes in the book.
But same with me to share like Iwas pegged to be a lawyer, I
was a debater, I was on thenational debate team, I was head
girl, I was always speaking.
I did politics in my undergradlike.
I cared about.
You know human rights issuesand there and I tried different
trajectories.
You know exploring andexperimenting and I came to the

(17:32):
realization that this could havebeen an option, but this wasn't
the option.
And it's really important tothink about how we instill the
critical thinking skills in thenext generation, to really be
curious and ask the hardquestions.
Is this what I want, or is thissociety?
What are they telling me what Ishould be?

Speaker 1 (17:51):
No, I totally agree.
I and I genuinely my dad'sprobably like if he watches this
he'll be laughing, like I toldyou.
So like you say it now.
But you know, you're absolutelyright.
And we had this stigma on girlsgrowing up, especially in
Bermuda, like if you wereoutspoken and you, you know, did
speech and debate or youthparliament or any of those types
of things.
We were all told to be lawyers.
Like I can think of all of myclosest friends, similar
personalities, were all told tobe lawyers growing up.

(18:14):
And it's just, I don't thinkany of us are but, um, it's just
crazy.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
That was what was, you know, put on all of us to
just kind of do because you, youwere outspoken at the time,
just growing up but I thinkthat's why you know hustle her
and platforms like this are soimportant, because one thing I'm
really passionate about is thisthere's this saying you cannot
be what you cannot see, andaspirations directly linked to
visibility and um.

(18:40):
I've shared this with peoplethat I'm close with and there's
a lot of research around this.
But if you see this model whereit's like people that do debate
, do politics, end up as lawyers, that's the only thing that you
think is possible for you.
But if you're like gosh, youknow Deshae went into this work
and is doing communications andpodcasts and DEI work and
inclusion and culture, and youknow there may be another

(19:02):
trajectory.
Or you know Christy started inconsulting with Deloitte and
worked in the U S and then, youknow, was doing people in
performance and thentransitioned to a portfolio
entrepreneurial career and wasan author.
There's so many things where,if you raise the visibility on
these platforms that littleoutspoken, bossy girl who's
being labeled as one thing we'llstart to question what else is

(19:22):
possible for me.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, totally, and I'm so grateful for, like, we
have definitely have mutualfriends that did different
things.
You know okay and and it.
What we see now is that it'sokay and you're successful in it
, and you speak about it in thebook, about trying new things or
whatever.
Like no one's career trajectoryis the same.
That's the first thing, butthen also trying new things is

(19:43):
also.
I would have never thought, one, that I'd be sitting here right
now 10 years ago, and two, thatI will be working in an
insurance company, not doinginsurance, but doing DEI work
Like that's crazy, like I wouldhave never thought that 10 years
ago.
But speaking of that, which wasprobably would have almost been
10 years ago Now, I don't knowif you remember this, but my
first interaction with you wasyou were the speaker at I think

(20:05):
it was called Women in Financeat the time and it was at the
B&G and you were the speakerthere and it was great.
I remember the story you toldabout your husband and his
birthday, the whole thing, andthat was my first introduction
with you.
And then I was workingsomewhere at the time you came
and you spoke there and Iremember thinking then that was
my first real introduction toDEI and I wonder how was it in

(20:27):
that space advocating for, Iguess, women, more so in a time
when it isn't as prevalent as ithas been in the past, like four
years, like how difficult or ifanything, was it kind of being
someone advocating for thingsthat people just weren't talking
about then being someoneadvocating for things that
people just weren't talkingabout, then yeah, it's a great

(20:51):
question.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
So one thing was when I went to Brown I did a lot of
work on gender, sexuality, raceinclusion, and I found those
interests kind of forming evenmore during that time.
And then I got the RhodesScholarship to go to Oxford and
most Rhodes scholars at the timehad done law or medicine or you
know those kinds oftrajectories.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
And the.
Even in my Rhodes interview,one of the questions was why not
law?
And in a room of many lawyerswho were interviewing me and, um
, I was like I want to focus onwomen.
And I was the second RhodesScholar ever in the entire world
to do women's studies and theprogram was only 10 years old,

(21:29):
it was still fairly new atOxford and people I even had a
friend come up to me years laterand they were like we heard you
got the Rhodes Scholarship andyou were going to do women's
studies and we were like what'sshe going to do with that?
And at the time a newspaperarticle was written up about me
and it started with most Rhodesscholars go to Oxford to do
medicine, law and other likeprestigious degrees, but

(21:53):
Christie's going to do women'sstudies.
And so I think your question'sright on point because at the
time, um, particularly among, Ithink, my generation people were
like Christie, why are youdoing this?
This is our mother's generationbattle.
Like, if you look at the civilrights movement movements of the
60s and 70s, if you look atwomen's right to vote, like all
of those like why is this stillan issue?

(22:14):
And I don't think it was on theforefront of people's minds in
the way that it is, or at leastnot my generation, in the way
that it is now.
Um, the only silver lining ofsome of the atrocities we've
seen politically, um, and humanrights wise worldwide, has been
that my focus and area ofpassion has become from a

(22:34):
sideline issue to a mainlineissue.
So no one ever questionsanymore why reproductive rights
or why you know additionalthings like protections for for
children or for mothers, for youknow, women in the workforce
are an issue, and so I think nowthere's that consciousness.
But yeah, it was.
I did have to justify myself ahundred percent.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
But what was the driving, I guess force, behind
wanting to be an advocate forwomen and learning about women's
studies?
Because I shouldn't say becausewhat I just want to know what,
what was?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
that I told this story on a podcast.
When my book came out, Isomeone asked me a similar
question and I shared this story.
They were like when did youfirst start to care about this?
And I couldn't think like I was, like I, I don't even remember,
I just remember always caringabout this.
And then I thought long andhard and I was like I just
remember always caring aboutthis.
And then I thought long andhard and I was like you know

(23:29):
what?
I remember when, when it was,and I was around 11 years old,
and my drama teacher at VHS cameup to me and said, um, I think
you should try out for ourpublic speaking team.
And I was like, okay, um, I'llgive it a shot.
And she said go home and writea three minute speech and come
in tomorrow and audition witheveryone.
And I said, okay, so I had 11,three minutes, Wow.

(23:51):
So I went home, Somerset, andknocked on my uh, on the rectory
door of my priest at the churchand I said I want to interview
you.
And he's like what, Christie,what are you doing here, Right?
And he's like okay, come intothe church.
So we went to the back and Isaid to him I want to know why
women can't be priests in theCatholic church.

(24:12):
And he looked at me and he saidokay, I'll walk you through,
like what, what the rationale isin the institution.
But you know, then you can takethat and do what you may.
So I did research and the nextday I got in and I gave my
speech on why women should beallowed to be priests in the
Catholic church.
And it was funny because theother um individuals who were

(24:32):
trying out they spoke about liketheir vacations, their favorite
ice cream, their food, and hereI was like this valiant
feminist at um 11, but I thinkI've always been aware of beyond
women's social injustice and Iwent back to that point, like
around the age of seven.
I remember thinking why isn'tthis person invited to this
birthday party?
Why is this person isolated orsitting on their own?

(24:54):
Why is this person someonethat's like not in a certain
group or clique at school?
And I think it's that I never Iwouldn't say I always cared
about inclusion, but I wasalways triggered by exclusion
and that then led me to where Iam.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, and most people don't realize is when people
identify exclusion, they thenwant to be more inclusive.
Right, and so I think it's spoton, and how inclusion works,
because you don't just go intosomething.
Well, now people do, because Ithink it's a bit more prevalent,
like you said but, previouslypeople, previously people were
definitely like well andobviously everyone in their
different groups, based ondiversity, makeups and whatever
that kind of looks like.

(25:29):
But exclusion is was, I think,the genesis of why more people
wanted to be included.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yes, definitely, and I think we don't use that word
enough.
You're right, like, but we allhave our own experiences of
exclusion.
There is no way that, with ourintersectional identities, every
single one of us have feltincluded in every single setting
, and so all of us can relate toexclusion.
And when you extrapolate that,it makes us more powerful as,
like, catalysts for inclusion.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, it's so crazy you say this and this is
definitely not the path I wantedto go down but here we are,
here we are, but like it's sotrue, because when I'm making
diversity and inclusionsomething that is relevant to
the person that I'm speaking to,I have to bring them back to
the moment that they feltexcluded, right, Like anytime

(26:16):
that it is and it's usually acertain type of person that you
have to do that too but thenyou're like this when you felt
that this is what this segmentof people person or gender or
race feel like all the time whenthey walk into a room or in
this particular situation, andit's almost like a light bulb
goes off because they're like oh, I get it now and it's.
It's just crazy to me that youjust said that, because I've

(26:37):
recently had to do that, andthat the exclusion is what
brought on the way that they nowlead into being more inclusive
in those situations.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's so powerful.
I'm now thinking about the DEIspace, and how can you start
with something like tell meabout a time you felt excluded,
or like you were in an out groupand all of us at some point.
It doesn't matter a lunch tablewhen we were in primary school,
or a meeting or whatever.
We've all had those.
It's just because ofdemographics, certain people are
then have a greater propensityto feel like that more often,

(27:07):
which is then like they're theones that are really losing out
in our societies, our structures, our communities Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Kathy Duffy said something on a panel I can't
remember when it was, but atleast four years ago and she was
like when it comes to diversityand inclusion, she was like
it's only relevant, and I'mparaphrasing here she's like it
only becomes relevant to peoplewhen it comes to diversity and
inclusion, she was like it'sonly relevant, and I'm
paraphrasing here she's like itonly becomes relevant to people
when it is personal to them, soit's not something that is so
sad.
So sad, but she was like.
You know, most people don'thave a view on, you know, the

(27:34):
lgbtqia plus community untiltheir daughter or their son or
their cousin or someone they'reclose to comes out and says that
they're a part of the community, or vice versa.
Or, you know, your kid startsto date someone of the um, a
different race or whatever thatlooks like, and then you're like
, oh wow, you're now hyper awareof what they're dealing like
because it's now personal to youand I use that in examples all

(27:56):
the time and I and I always giveKathy, I give you your credit,
girl but it um, it is somethingI use frequently, because when
she said it it was like a lightbulb went off, because I'm like
people don't realize howsomething is, how what they say
or their you know their tonetowards something, until it
becomes personal to them andthen they become an advocate for
things.
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Anyway, I digress because we can talk about this
after.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's so insane.
I was someone who was herebefore you.
We were like let's not go downthe rabbit hole of DEI, because
we talk about equity all thetime, and I was like I'm not
going to do this with Christyand look where we are anyway
switching gears a bit right.
So you're phenomenal ineverything that you do advisor,
speaker, author.
The book is amazing.
Anyone who wants you can get iton Amazon.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
We'll talk about that at the end, um, but I want to
know used to have them and Brownand Co had them.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
So yes, they did.
I was in there the other dayand I saw a few up in there.
I believe, so that's great toyou.
Um, but I want to talk aboutChristy the wife.
You tell me how you met yourhusband.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
So we were both on the road scholarship at Oxford.
So Jamaica has one road scholarper year and Bermuda has one as
well.
And we actually met in Heathrowairport because he came up to
Oxford the year before me andtwo road scholars are sent to
get the incoming class that'scoming over with the Americans,

(29:17):
and, um, he was sent to get us.
So I met him in Heathrow, thenthe bus and then I guess the
rest is history.
But there's a lot moremessiness in between.
But like any good, love story,yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
So where is he from?
What does he do?
Because you did mention aboutthe practice.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
I know these things, but I want everyone else, yeah
sure so um Ramon's from Jamaicaand he is an MD who did his
DPhil at Oxford and immunologylooking at different um cancer
treatments and then went on todo his general surgical
residency in the U S.
Um started at Penn andtransferred to Harvard and

(29:54):
finished there and then did hisplastic surgery residence and
training um across mass gen andBrigham and Beth Israel in the
Harvard program there, and so wewere living in Philly and
Boston for a while and thenmovedam and Beth Israel in the
Harvard program there, and so wewere living in Philly and
Boston for a while and thenmoved home and is the sole
plastic surgeon on island.
So he does a mix of everythingfrom the reconstructive the
burns, the accidents, the skincancers, the breast cancers to

(30:17):
the cosmetic, which are real andvalid concerns for individuals,
whether it be, you know, eyes,facelifts, whether it be
injectables, whether it be body,whether it be, you know,
mothers post childbirth.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
So it's a wide range, wide range of things.
Yeah, I love that.
And you mentioned about havingthe practice together.
Like what was that?
Was that always the goal ofbuilding this practice together,
or did it kind of just likebuild?

Speaker 2 (30:42):
So we knew what the structure of the economy.
So it was interesting Like hehad an offer to stay at Harvard
and I was desperate to raise ourchild at home.
Um, I think Bermuda is one ofthe most magical places on earth
when it comes to childhood.
And, um, he said, yep, let'syou know that's fine, and that

(31:04):
he talked to some surgeons hereand there was a need around what
he could provide.
So we moved and we did have theintention of setting up a
practice because, um, mostsurgeons are in private practice
in Bermuda, not hired by thehospital, and then they do some
operations at the hospital.
We did not have the plan ofbuilding Bermuda's first
outpatient surgical suite.

(31:24):
So, um, we were here and then,because of certain different
market forces or the need formore operative time, we ended up
going down the route of tryingto expand access to care on
Island and building a surgicalsuite as well as a practice.
So that was the shift andchange Um.
So that was the shift andchange Um.
And yeah, it was a wild fewyears.

(31:46):
I mean, we've had that, we'veum.
That all happened during COVID.
We had a young child.
Um, we did a 14 months longdistance when we first had our
child because he was in hisfinal year of residency.
Um, we moved like 10 times in10 years or something.
We, you know there weremultiple things.
So it was complex and full onfor a while.

(32:08):
I definitely was a little bitMIA for a few years.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, definitely I know, because I think when I
first moved back I didn't Idon't think we knew each other
at all, and then it was like youstarted coming back.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I was in hiding, full hiding.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
for all those reasons , so how is marriage with?
You have an amazing full career.
He has an amazing full career.
You have a young child.
You're you're now six and ahalf months pregnant.
Like, how has marriage beenthrough all of that?

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Hard.
Like I don't think that, um,people talk about this enough.
Um, I think we see social mediareels of, like, all of these
anniversaries and celebrationsand the beautiful moments, and
that's not a critique per se ofthose reels, because it's you're
not going to capture the fightsor the times when you're crying

(32:56):
or you know all of that.
Wait a minute, let's put up thecamera yeah, I get it, um, but
it was difficult on multipledifferent fronts and for many,
many different reasons andcomplex reasons.
And, um, it was interestingwhen Ramon proposed I didn't
know, and one of my bestgirlfriends did, and she was

(33:18):
like, oh my gosh, I'm nervousChristie won't say yes, because
he was asking her like hasChristie ever talked about
marriage, talked about a ringtopic?
And she was like, like I justdidn't.
I think that there's so manyways to live in love and I think
I'm very open in my viewpointsaround children, marriage,
sexuality, any kind of socialconstruction.

(33:39):
And he definitely won me overwhen he said, instead of like,
do you want to be my wife or doyou want to get of like, do you
want to be my wife or do youwant to get married?
He said do you want to be mylife partner?
And I'm like yeah, you know,that sounds all right, so um so.
but it is true it's apartnership and it's not always
50, 50,.
It ebbs and flows, um, andthere's beautiful moments,
there's messy moments, there'shard moments and you have to be

(34:00):
committed.
And I remember, before I gotmarried, asking my parents, so I
said like, look, you know, over50% of marriages fail or end in
divorce, like I think the statwas like 55 at the time.
A larger percentage is unhappyand so you only have like, if
you're quantifying success as ahappy marriage, it's a very
small percentage.
Would you ever take aninvestment, risk like that?

(34:23):
And my dad said to me high risk,high reward.
And my mom said to me the bestthings in life take hard work,
whether it be your health andyour fitness, a meaningful and
fulfilling career that givesback to a community, raising
children, like none of those areeasy options.
And so I would say, going intoa meaningful relationship,

(34:46):
partnership, whether that'smarriage or not, know that it's
going to take hard work, likeknow that every day and every
month and every year isn't goingto be a great one.
But I think that thatcommitment's great.
And I will say, to Ramon'scredit too, like he, he
definitely, in terms of mycareer, is like my biggest
champion.
I could tell him tomorrow I'mmoving to timbuktu for two years

(35:08):
to do a research project or I'mgonna go live in the amazon and
look at women and how they liveand gender constructs, and he'd
be like, okay, we'll figure itout like, and that has been huge
yeah, I was saying I was sayingthis I don't know if it was to
lara or to someone else and Isaid, when I interview women on
the podcast and usuallyeveryone's very successful in
their own right I said they'reeither single or they have the

(35:30):
most supportive partners.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, there's no in between.
There's no like you know.
Oh, he's kind of in my life, hekind of isn't in my life.
It is either single, happy,thriving, or my partner is my
biggest cheerleader, my biggestchampion.
Um, he's there through whateverit like.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
There is no in between you should really like
collate this data and like writeon it at some point, because I
think it's fascinating and Ithink that that trend is so true
.
Like I would have, I wouldprefer to be, you know, by
myself than not be with someonethat is really supportive of my
independence.
My independent identity as well, which is so critical, like I I

(36:09):
know for so many people, likewife and mother, is a leading
part of their identity and Ithink that that's beautiful and
I think we're each unique.
But when I think about myidentity, those are one parts of
a multifaceted identity.
I'm still Christie, but thosethings my interests, my passions
, my pursuits, how I have fun,how I find joy, like the things
I love I am not only mother andwife.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
It is just one aspect .
But how do you what?
I guess, what would you say tosomeone or a woman who is a mom,
who has didn't have theintention of becoming only wife,
only mom?
What advice would you give toher, to how you've kind of have,
how you have that approach oflike yeah, this is one facet of
me, but I have all these otherfacets Like I find that a lot of

(36:51):
women become all consumed inmotherhood in particular, and
they don't really know how tocome out of that to remember who
they are.
So how have you been able to dothat and what would you tell
others?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
So for some things, like one, I think that there's
many ways to live in ourindividual identity and
empowerment, and that may bestaying home with your kids, it
may be working well with yourkids, and I think one thing we
need to step back and think isthat, like we as women, will
empower each other throughaccepting each other's choices,

(37:21):
and how I feel the most myselfis not going to be how someone
else feels the most themselves,so themselves, um, identifying
themselves as mother first, orwife first, that is.
If that's what brings them joyand true, true grounding, that
is beautiful, and so I thinkthat that's absolutely fine, and
I think we need to celebrateand not judge those choices.

(37:43):
However, the one thing I willsay is, in my coaching practice,
I do a lot of career-basedcoaching, but women come to me
at major crisis and transitionpoints, and there have been
multiple women over the yearsthat have reached out and said
I've, you know, given upeverything.
I've been this one identity foryears.
I found out this about myhusband he's leaving me and now

(38:05):
I'm in crisis, or and that hashappened I've worked with women
that are 70.
I've worked with women that are30, something that that that
has happened.
So I would say, for women ingeneral, it is always important
to know your identity outside ofa job and title, outside of
your partner, outside of yourchildren, because the minute we

(38:26):
peg our identity to one thing,you lose that job, you're in
crisis.
I had friends that when theystepped off of their varsity
teams, were in crisis in collegebecause that was their whole
identity in life.
And so who is Deshae, separateand apart from the titles and
the roles?
And what research shows us isactually men are better at
creating identities that areseparate and apart from one

(38:47):
another, while women we createidentities of attachment in
terms of our roles in ourcommunity, our families, to
others and in our jobs.
And so I think that that levelof reflection is always
important and never to forget toask yourself what brings me joy
and what are those pockets ofmy identity that that I can have
separate and apart from allthese other factors and

(39:08):
influences.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
No, I love that and I love when we, when you kind of
break it down that way as well,it helps people to kind of flesh
out that out even better.
Right?
Because when I say, like womenwho you know find themselves in
those spaces, like I have a lotof friends who have kids, and
then you know one minute thosespaces, like I have a lot of
friends who have kids, and thenyou know one minute, it's just
like I was having a conversationwith a friend a few months ago
and she was like I, you asked mea question about what I like to

(39:30):
do, and she's like I don'tremember.
Yeah, I just don't remember,and it wasn't like there was no
judgment in the moment.
I had to fix my face because I'mlike I know what you like, I
remember what we used to do youknow what I mean and then I had
to fix my face because I wasjust like this person who was,
you know personality, was justlive and vibrant and when she
walked into a room it was allconsuming has just basically

(39:51):
just transformed a little bitfor a little while, just needed
to be reminded of the thingsthat they like to do Loves being
a mom, loves being a wife butjust needed a reminder in that
moment of who they were, becausethey just lost it in that
moment and just wanted it backin that moment of who they were,
because they just lost it inthat moment and just wanted it
back.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I see it all the time and I think one thing to know
is that life has ebbs and flowsand you may be consumed in a
certain role in a moment, butthat may not be forever.
And the couple that we haddinner with last night shared
with us.
We asked them, like how did youmaintain your marriage?
High powered individuals, andthey were like we didn't really
see a lot of people during thatperiod of time.
We really focused on our familyunit and X or Y.
So know that it's not forever,but I do have a lot of women
come in and tell me they'veforgotten what brings them joy,

(40:32):
or ask them like what interestsyou?
And they've forgotten.
And it's only through goingthrough the process of like
asking them those questions thatthey're able to remember, but
sometimes they're so clouded bytheir own lens.
The most powerful thing is toask a friend.
So if I, even in moments for methat have felt dark, if I asked
one of my friends like remindme what it was when you saw me

(40:53):
the most joyful, when you saw methe most myself, when I was my
best self sometimes.
That reflective, best selfexercise it's something I put
people through actually is thebest way, because women can be
so critical in self-assessment.
But if we see ourselves throughthe eyes of others, it can be
really, really powerful.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
No, you're absolutely right.
I had a friend who recently gota coach and one of the first
things in that step of thatprocess was for the coach to
reach out to the people closestto them.
And she asked a bunch ofquestions and it was like pretty
generic, nothing crazy.
And I was like, can I add someadditional color?
And she was like it wouldn't beme if I didn't.

(41:32):
And she was like yeah,absolutely.
And I was like, look, so-and-sois an amazing person, but the
load that she bears is beyondanything you would ever imagine,
like what she goes throughevery single day, the pressure
that's on her shoulders, likeshe doesn't have capacity to not
be successful.
So when you're coaching herinto being a better person, keep
in mind that that pressure shefeels to be, you know, to

(41:55):
overachieve and to do all thesethings, not just because she's
an overachiever, just to be anoverachiever, because she
doesn't have another choice.
So just keep that in mind.
It's giving some additional andshe was like I've never heard
anybody do that before, right.
And so I called and told myfriend and I was just like I'm
so sorry if I overstepped, but Ifelt I felt the need to give
her that background because I'mlike without it she's going to

(42:15):
give advice that doesn't reallyhelp.
You know what I mean.
So I totally agree with youabout going to your friends,
especially the ones you reallytrust around, who who you are.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, and for anyone that's listening to this,
there's actually a version ofthis online.
I think it's out of universityof Michigan like the center for
positive organizations, but AdamGrant, who's an amazing
organized organizationalpsychologist, talks about it.
Um, and it's called thereflected best self exercise,
and I've done differentvariations throughout the years,
but it's incredibly powerfulwhen you feel like you're in
your own head and you'reforgetting yourself and you're

(42:49):
wondering like who am I anymoreand who do I want to be.
It's a really powerful tool.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
OK, so let's talk about Christy, the mom Tell me
about your beautiful son, who'sso sweet and hilarious.
By the way, I watch your videosall the time.
I think I've ever met him inperson, but I feel like a lot of
fun.
Tell me about Chrissy the mom,like did you always want to be a
mom or what was?

Speaker 2 (43:13):
where did that kind of did that shift or?
Um, I think I did when I wasyounger, and then there was a
period where I questioned itwhen I was older, for sure, and
my husband and I think I thinkwe've been married around six
years when I had him, so we alsohad a period of waiting.
One thing I knew I didn't wantto be was in a partnership with

(43:33):
traditional gender roles where Iwould be like the sole,
caregiver, the sole, and therewas a lot of pressures in our
careers at that time,particularly because he was in
residency, working 120 hours aweek and so kind of finding that
shared partnership andparenthood was really important
to me.
But yeah, our son is honestlyone of the biggest joys of my

(43:55):
life and I'm really proud of theway that he interacts with
others, but also, like hiswonder and awe about the world,
one thing I've alwaysprioritized since he could walk
is being outdoors with him andthose simple moments away from
screens, away from technology,away from the noise of the world

(44:16):
, where you recognize the beautyand now you know he's seven and
he runs outside.
Oh my gosh, look at this sunset.
There's this bird here, there'sthis.
You know, that kind of stuff wecan't take for granted, and I
think, adults, we'd be betteroff if we integrated more of
that into our lives too.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Absolutely yeah.
So I guess I want to kind oftake staying on the mom side of
it, but kind of taking a littlepivot there.
So your husband, ramon, isJamaican and he's black and you
have, you're in an intimateracial marriage and you are
raising a biracial son.
Yes, how has that been for youguys?
Was it something that's beendifficult at times with your

(44:52):
knowledge on DEI and all thesedifferent things?
Has that been at an advantagefor you?
How has it been being in aninterracial relationship?

Speaker 2 (45:01):
So funny you can have all the knowledge on DEI in the
world and you can'tintellectualize a personal
experience, which is also why Ican read all the books, but I'm
still a white woman and I'm notgoing to understand a black
woman's experience of the worldin the same way, and I think
remembering that is so important.
Like, lived experience is verydifferent than read experience.

(45:22):
Yeah absolutely Um, and I thatkeeps me humble in my work all
the time.
Um, in terms of our experience,it I'd say we faced more
challenges in Boston.
Um, in terms of just uh,perception and interactions and
kind of smaller microaggressionsthat existed on the day to day.

(45:43):
Um, and I do think it wasinteresting, though, like when I
first started dating my husband, I was pretty private about it
and I shared with people youknow I'm dating this guy, he's a
doctor, he's a road scholar,like he is on the football team
and golf team at Oxford.
He's great, we've got a lot ofshared values commitment to
family, commitment to country,like culture.

(46:05):
And then I was like and he'sJamaican and you know, like once
it's like and so it goes allthe accolades out, you know and
so you kind of see that Um, andit was interesting, ramon even
coming to Bermuda and being like, yeah, I heard people call
Jamaicans jump-ups Like there'sthis there.
You know that was also aconnotation around this, or
connotations around fidelity, oryou know, there's lots of

(46:27):
cultural things, um.
I think you have to stay true toyour family unit and what you
believe, but also understand.
Like I said, marriage andparenting is complex,
irrespective when you adddifferent ethnicities, different
races, different cultures,different backgrounds, different
countries.
You have to be willing to takeon those extra levels of
complexity and to me, thisperson was the person that that

(46:51):
was worth taking on for Um, butI also so you'll know, I have a
very mixed friendship group, um,and so I remember one of my
girlfriends longtime girlfriends.
When I start also, you knowJamaican background Bermuda it
was like come here, I want totalk to you about how this is
going to be perceived by thiscommunity Right.
And and I had those people thathad those real raw conversations

(47:14):
with me early and I said youknow, thank you, and I get it,
I'm.
It's not going to change mydecision around my partnership,
but it's going to make me awareand more sensitive to those
dynamics.
And there were struggles,definitely for sure.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
I mean my grandmother'sJamaican, so I'm definitely
aware of how, even in Bermuda,people perceive Jamaicans.
And it can be very negative intimes when it comes to that.
So I totally understand thatwhen it comes to Jamaicans.
But Ramon's amazing and weconnected on.
You know being from Jamaica andI'll never forget.
Someone was telling me a storyI can't remember where it was or

(47:50):
where they were and someone wastalking about Jamaicans and
someone said I would never datea Jamaican man and Ramona hadn't
happened to be there and my dadwas there and I don't know if
you've met my dad before but,you know, he and I don't think
they had officially met at thetime and my dad was very vocal
about you know, answering thatquestion to that person.
And then him and Ramon kind ofhit it off after that and he was

(48:12):
like thank you, like I've heardso many things and you're the
first person I've heard that'skind of been like you're an
idiot essentially, but in thenicest way possible and kind of
challenged the person's thinkingand to just stop generalizing
based on two or three peoplethat you've interacted with.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Definitely, and I think that goes to confirmation
bias.
We're always looking for thatone person to confirm a bias we
have versus anyone to counter it.
Yeah, the other thing is tolike I, we lived in Kingston,
jamaica we still have a basethere If you so many people look
at me and they're like Christythis like blonde haired, blue
eyed.
If you so many people look at meand they're like Christy this
like blonde haired, blue eyed,like little Island girl lived in
Kingston, jamaica, and it'slike, yeah, that's my home as

(48:51):
well, and integrating to therehad its own real and very real
challenges for me, and I love itand it's such.
I always want our son and nowour daughter to have a really
shared nationality, identity,ethnicity, and I think that you
have to do that intentionallyand it doesn't happen without
investing time and energy tobeing part of those cultures, so

(49:13):
that's incredibly important tome.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
No, I think it's spot on and I mean there's never a
perfect answer or perfect youknow, scenario, situation, but I
think you're you keep sayingbeing intentional about it and
learning the culture and knowingthat there's going to be,
you're going to see challenges,people are going to judge you,
people are going to thinkcertain things, but being
intentional about being one opento the different cultures, you
know, and I also think and thismight be controversial to say,

(49:36):
but I think, living in Bermudaand being an islander, I think
it is a slightly different theapproach to cultures, I think
other cultures, when people areinterracial, it's a little
different, not completely, but Ido think that there's a bit
more acceptance.
With the music it's similar,like it's not, you know, I mean,
you don't, you're not crossinga lot of those barriers, but I'm
just so.
I love that you said what yousaid and I'm hoping that we can

(49:58):
um package that down some way,because you often see people who
and no, I'm not going to saythat you often see how people
who do are in interracialrelationships and they
automatically absolve themselvesof being, you know, prejudiced
or racist because their partneris, a certain way, not realizing
that if you don't, are notintentional about getting to

(50:20):
know that culture or that raceor that ethnicity.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
You can actually still have some of those very
same heavy biases, andabsolutely it doesn't absolve
you from anything Like I'm stillvery aware and and I need
people to call me out and keepme honest Like it doesn't matter
if I've worked in this spaceand research in this space for
17 years, whether I'm in livingit we all are fallible, every

(50:44):
single one of us.
Yeah, and the greatest thing ishaving friendships.
One of our mutual friends willshare articles about who goes
into whose setting and at whattime.
Who's willing to beuncomfortable and what are those
settings like.
And yeah, I've had lots ofmoments of major discomfort.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, I can imagine, especially in Kingston.
Yeah, I love Jamaica, by theway it's one of my favorite
places on the planet.
I would go to Jamaica everyyear if I could.
Um, I probably should go backmore frequently, but so just
putting that out theredefinitely love Jamaica but yeah
okay.
So I mean we're wrapping up ontime here.
It's going by really quickly,but I did want to take a moment

(51:20):
to quickly talk about the book,and I know it's been out for
like a little over how long now2002.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
So we just came up on the two year anniversary, yeah,
yeah, which is crazy.
It's crazy Because it was theanchor event, was the launch
event.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
I remember and that feels like it was yesterday.
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
So walk me through just quicklyaround.
I guess I feel like your entirecareer kind of led you to
writing the book or wanting towrite the book.
But I guess what was theoriginal genesis of like
beginning boldly?

Speaker 2 (51:50):
So one thing was it was never like, oh, I want to be
an author, write a book.
It was like, over the years,I've identified kind of these
issues and challenges and I havethis amazing toolkit and I
ultimately have a choice ofwhether I continue to impart
that knowledge and those toolson an organization by
organization, client by clientbasis, which means your impact

(52:11):
over your life is like this orwhether I invest my time and
energy into kind of packaging abroader toolkit that gives
everyone exposure to it at thecost of, like what $15 to $20
versus coaching, which is anelite group.
So I really wanted to equalizeaccess to this, which was like
really the impetus behind it.

(52:32):
Um, but my whole thing is likeI feel like my mission it's not
even like my vocation or mycareer is to like help women be
bolder and braver in theircareers and lives and like this
is one of the ways to do it.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Okay, so what's your?
I guess what would you say isyour favorite part of the book
and I know you wrote it and youdid all the research and I'm
sure there's a ton of things inhere but if someone read the
book, what was, what would bethe one thing you want them not
to forget?

Speaker 2 (53:05):
So there's there's a couple of core concepts, but
I'll tell you one concept that'sreally resonated and gotten
traction, and something I haveto remind myself all the time is
that we often and we're told in, you know, popular media or
discourse, that we need to beconfident before making a bold
move, before getting on apodcast, before sitting on a

(53:26):
couch and being interviewed,before getting on a stage,
before putting ourselves up fora role, before negotiating a
promotion, before puttingourselves out there for love to
be vulnerable, whatever it maybe.
And the reality is, if we waitto feel confident, that elusive
feeling will likely never come.
Confidence is truly cultivatedthrough action and that action
happens because of courage.

(53:46):
So one of the biggest pieces ofthe book for me is choose
courage over confidence.
So for part of my life I waswaiting to feel confident before
these things, and that putthings on hold.
I see my clients doing that allthe time.
But if we stop telling women towait to feel confident and we
say, look, you just need to becourageous in the absence of
confidence, and then confidencewill be the byproduct or output

(54:09):
that is so powerful.
And so next time someone's liketrying to go for that role,
interviewing for thatscholarship, trying to take that
exam, whatever it may be, likeI said, putting themselves out
there for love or changingcareers or moving countries just
know that you don't have tofeel ready or confident, you
just need to be courageous.
In the absence of it, I lovethat.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
That's amazing.
Anyway, this book is great andeveryone should read it, and I
wish we need another session totalk about the book and all the
things that we got from it.
But we'd have to do likeeveryone has already read the
book and we'll go from there.
But no, I totally agree withyou on that and I think I can't
remember the exact study or thesaying about it, but it was like
the average woman waits whenshe's applying for a job.
She looks and goes through thejob description to make sure she
hits everything on the jobdescription, but a man will go

(54:52):
in and just see one or twothings.
But yeah, I can do that and goand apply for it, and it's
pretty much the same kind ofconcept exactly around that.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
So I think it's like women feel like they have to
have 100% of the qualificationsand men have 60.
And so the thing is, if wecontinue to function in that way
as women, the gender gap isalways going to persist.
So I always encourage myclients like I'll help them with
like resumes and interviews andeverything, and I'm like put
yourself out there.
And we always say, like wealways ask ourselves, why me?

(55:19):
Well, ask yourself why not me?
Or what's the worst that couldhappen?
Ask yourself what's the bestthat could happen, or why, ask
yourself why not?
And there's these powerfulmental shifts that I encourage
in terms of like flip thescripts, that are really, really
powerful in terms of likeensuring that we're just
courageous even when our innercritic is so loud, which I've
dealt with, you know, throughoutmy life.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, same, yeah, totally agree.
Especially when you're shiftingcareers, you're taking moves,
that that self-doubt, that youknow, a bit of imposter syndrome
creeps up and I feel like it'smore in women than men.
I I could be wrong, but I feellike that just from the people
that I work with um often.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
But especially if you're taking those bolder moves
, it can definitely a bit be abit more challenging yeah, and I
think one thing and I thinkyou've heard me say this before,
but I think we need tonormalize those feelings, like I
think we think, oh, I'm fearful, I don't feel ready, these
might be signs that I shouldn'tgo for it.
No, I feel fear every singleday.
I feel fear every.

(56:18):
If you're not feeling fear,you're not loving deeply enough,
taking risks deeply enough,You're not investing in your
career enough, and I think weneed to normalize.
Like, my goal is never forpeople that read the book to be
fearless, but have to have thetools to take bold action in the
face of fear.
And so that's why this conceptof courage, it's not it's going
to eliminate your fear.
It's going to, instead offocusing on confidence, you're

(56:40):
going to focus on beingcourageous in the face of fear,
and that's what's powerful.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, I know it's amazing.
Oh, I want to talk about itmore.
Ok, but when we start thinkingfinal thoughts, right of
everything we've kind of talkedabout today, I definitely want
you to leave something with mylisteners, especially the women
around if we're talking to awoman and she's trying to
balance life and family and workand their own personal
ambitions, what advice would yougive them, or takeaways would

(57:07):
you give them, about embracinguncertainty and taking those
risks?

Speaker 2 (57:12):
So the way that I think about it and I've thought
about it kind of in my book andmy research and with my clients
is we often don't want to take arisk because we don't have a
formula for risk taking.
We often don't want to take arisk because we don't have a
formula for risk-taking.
We feel like we're being toldto jump off of the mountain

(57:34):
blindfolded or paraglide whenwe've never paraglided before,
and risk-taking doesn't need tofeel like that.
We can have a method forrisk-taking.
So part of the focus of thebook was giving you a method to
assess risks and also to preparefor the range of outcomes.
I'm not saying there's nevergoing to be a risk that has a
bad outcome.
I'm going to say that theoutcome that you don't desire
might actually propel youfurther than you ever imagined.

(57:55):
And so I would say, like, getthe support network and get the
tools that you need to actuallytake intentional risks.
The time and I go back to thatintentionality and sometimes
when we feel exhausted I workwith women that feel stretched
across everything we don't takethat time out to be intentional,
but that's truly the gift thatyou can give yourself.

(58:16):
And so, knowing that I talkedabout this in the book, but it
was years ago.
I was speaking at a globalwomen's conference for the
economy and society in Normandy,france, and there was this
woman on the CEO panel that Iwas interviewing and she was in
heels and she got up on thestage and she said if I have to
get from here over to here, howwould I get there?

(58:39):
And and everyone was starting,she's like I can't have help, I
can't have a ladder, I can'twhatever, and we have no idea,
right.
And she actually eventually,when everyone was stumped, took,
uh, you know, backsteps and ranup and then made the jump,
which she wouldn't have beenable to do if she just, you know
, bunny, hopped from that spot,right.
And so her message was like,the risk that we've take that we

(59:03):
think have negativeconsequences, actually T, and we
look like we're going backactually teach us more and
propel us further than aconsistent choice to play it
safe where we can't bridge thatgap.
And so I would just say that,as long as we've always got the
mindset of like, what did welearn from this and how can we
harness it for greater growthand forward motion, that you

(59:24):
know there is no wrong move inthat way.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I love that.
That's amazing, okay.
And then when we think of when,what you want to be remembered
for, right, so it's the finalquestion.
On the podcast, everyone that Ithat comes on me always access,
like, when you think, and Ialways say and people who listen
frequently probably like we getit to shave and they're no
longer here a long time from now.
You know, what do you want tobe remembered for?

(59:48):
When they say Christy Hunter RScott, like, what do you want
people to say about you?
What is that memory?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
That's so hard.
I can tell you what's mostrewarding and meaningful for me
now.
It's not the awards for the bookor for my work, or
international recognition orbeing published in different
places.
It's those messages that comeinto my inbox that were, like
you know, I'm in a bad marriageand I left because of your words
on this, or I put myself up forthe promotion and your words

(01:00:18):
inspired me, or I'm coming backfrom mat leave and I got a new
title and a new raise thatreflects my work and I would
have never, ever, ever, you know, put myself and advocated for
myself, or I've just advocatedfor someone else that is
underrepresented and I'm notlike.
Those are the things that arethe most meaningful moments and
they exist in my inbox, not inthe public eye or in those

(01:00:41):
interactions with my menteesthat are informal on the day to
day, and so I think it's almostlike the accumulation of that in
terms of being remembered, likeif, if there's women that I
inspire to be bolder and braverin love, in their careers, in
life, in leadership, like that'swhat I'd want, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I love that and I'm glad that you said that around
in love and leadership andwhatever, because we think about
this in a career sense, in thebegin, boldly.
But you can take a lot of theseprinciples and, you know, put
them into your personal life,into how you kind of navigate
your life period, and I thinkthat that's really what's a good
factor about the book as well,definitely.
Anyway, chrissy, we could keepgoing, but thank you so much.

(01:01:23):
I really appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
And I can't wait to meet baby girl once she gets
here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I can't wait to be on the other side of this.
So, yeah, yeah, it'll come soonenough.
It'll be fast.
I well hopefully, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
November will come quick, not that I'm counting,
but thank you again.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, thank you so much to Shay.
All right, guys, we just had anamazing conversation with
Christy Hunter-Oscott, who isthe author of Begin Boldly.
Make sure you head over to oursponsor, brown Company, so you
can head over to the bookmarkthere and you can purchase the
book, or you can head over toAmazon and you can purchase her
book there as well.
If you want to know more aboutChristy and any of the services
that she does provide, make sureyou head over to our website

(01:01:59):
ChristyHunterOscottcom.
Calm as always.
Thank you for spending sometime with me today on hustle,
her podcast.