November 5, 2023 • 41 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to lead a team of 40 spread across eight different locations? DeVika Bourne, SVP and Head of Underwriting Operations at PartnerRe, pulls back the curtain on her leadership journey in this insightful conversation. As someone who expertly juggles the responsibilities of her career and family, DeVika shares her experiences and wisdom on team management, growth, and development.
This episode delves into DeVika's professional journey, her unexpected transition into leadership, and her childhood ambition of becoming a lawyer. What sets DeVika apart is her understanding of the unique personalities and cultures of the people she leads. She talks candidly about maintaining a healthy work-life balance, setting boundaries, and navigating the challenges of making time for loved ones.
We wrap up the discussion by exploring DeVika's motivations for success and how motherhood has fueled her ambitions. She shares the importance of breaking barriers and translating conversations into action when it comes to workplace equity and fairness. By the end of this episode, you'll gain a new perspective on leadership and the key role leaders play in training their team members and setting a standard for success. This is a conversation packed with insights that will inspire and guide you in your leadership journey. Let's get hustling!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Deshay Caines (00:02):
It's time for hustle her podcast.
I'm your host, deshae Keynes.
Hustle her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders we are
today.
If you're an enterprising womandetermined to succeed and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back tohustle her podcast.
Thanks again for spending sometime with me today.
For those of you, if it's yourfirst time here, welcome.
(00:42):
And for our returning listenersand viewers, thank you again
for coming in check, checking usout.
Um big thank you to oursponsors today Brown and Co and
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Make sure you guys head over to59 front and check out all the
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They have some amazing brands,from Joe Malone to La Mer and
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(01:03):
there.
So you should definitely headover to 59 front if you have not
recently.
I have an amazing guest todaywho I'm super excited to have on
the podcast today.
She is the SVP and head ofunderwriting operations at
partner.
We miss DeVica.
Hey, how are you?
I'm very, very happy thatyou're here.
Um, I know we were talkingabout a pre show, but I love the
(01:26):
lipstick color.
DeVika Bourne (01:27):
It's super cute.
I love lipsticks.
I wanted to try something alittle bit less subtle.
Deshay Caines (01:34):
It works, it works, it definitely works.
All right, so we'll jump intosome questions to get everyone
to get to know you reallyquickly.
It's giving me the first thingthat comes to mind and then
we'll jump in.
Cool, all right.
I'm happiest when I'm with mychildren, okay, um, what do you
do on a plane?
DeVika Bourne (01:51):
Oh, either read or listen to music, okay.
All right, no more skincareroutine, um, so I use circadian
products every morning, everynight wash, SPF lotion yeah, spf
has become a regular routine.
Deshay Caines (02:09):
Same for me.
I use black girls on screen.
Um.
I didn't do that when I wasyounger, but definitely not yeah
, for sure, all right.
What did you spend your firstbig paycheck on?
DeVika Bourne (02:21):
Um, first big paycheck.
I had already bought a house bythe time I got to a first big
paycheck, so I knew it wassomething for the house.
I just can't pinpoint exactlywhat it was.
Deshay Caines (02:33):
Okay, I'm okay with that.
All right, uh, who would yousay is your closest friend right
now?
Oh my gosh.
DeVika Bourne (02:38):
Um well outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines (02:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
DeVika Bourne (02:42):
So, outside of my husband, I have had lifelong
girlfriends that I'm soincredibly thankful for.
So um names.
Deshay Caines (02:49):
If you want to.
I don't want you to forgetanybody and it becomes a problem
.
DeVika Bourne (02:53):
Right, exactly, exactly, but no, I have lifelong
high school friends from highschool that we continue to have
the best and closestrelationship, so perfect.
So outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines (03:03):
All right, nice.
I love that you said outside ofmy house.
Yeah, like duh, all right, whatdoes love feel like?
DeVika Bourne (03:10):
Oh gosh, you know , it feels appreciated, it feels
reciprocal, um, because ofcourse you can feel it, but you
also have to be, you know, giventhat exact same emotion, back
Um wholesome, um, happy, excited, spontaneous, all of those
(03:31):
things.
Deshay Caines (03:32):
Okay, all right.
What is your hidden talent?
DeVika Bourne (03:39):
Um, I don't know if I necessarily have a hidden
talent.
Deshay Caines (03:44):
Okay, Uh, it's fine.
It's fine If all the talentsare out there no longer hidden.
DeVika Bourne (03:49):
That's what we'll say.
Deshay Caines (03:51):
All right, celebrity crush.
DeVika Bourne (03:52):
I knew you were going to actually.
Deshay Caines (03:55):
It's become a thing.
Yeah, it was not intended, andthen it just became a thing.
DeVika Bourne (03:59):
I thought about it and I, if I think back to
like my old crush, I don't thinkI have one right now but.
Beyonce is my crush.
She'll always be my crush, so.
Deshay Caines (04:07):
I'm going next week and I can't wait, I went to
in August.
DeVika Bourne (04:11):
Um, but when I was like in university, usher
was definitely a crush on mine.
I remember catching the busfrom Wolfville to Halifax to
that record store to buy thatone CD.
Deshay Caines (04:21):
Can you imagine if you used to buy a CD?
DeVika Bourne (04:23):
Exactly.
I'm playing it over and overand over.
When I got back to my dormwhich.
Cd was it.
Deshay Caines (04:28):
Confessions Okay yeah, confessions was a.
That was a good album.
Confessions part two yeah, burn, he had so many songs on that
one.
Yeah, it's still a great album.
DeVika Bourne (04:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Deshay Caines (04:38):
Daphne, you got to head over to Vegas to go see
him.
DeVika Bourne (04:40):
I know we were just there and he wasn't
performing during that week.
Deshay Caines (04:44):
He extended his dates, just saying all right.
And then, finally, what is yourcut match team?
DeVika Bourne (04:50):
It's St George's Mercy.
Deshay Caines (04:52):
Just two, two for three today.
Mercy, all right, sorry, can'tcontinue.
DeVika Bourne (04:58):
I'm joking.
Deshay Caines (04:59):
All right, so let's jump in.
So I read off your title, bigtitle right Senior vice
president, um, and you are thehead of underwriting operations
at partner re, so walk methrough leadership in that
aspect in your current role.
DeVika Bourne (05:13):
Yeah, so I am responsible for a team of about
40 right now in eight locationsworldwide, um, and really we're
just responsible for all of theadministration side of the
underwriting process.
So we're very much supportiveto all of the underwriters
worldwide at partnering Um.
But I, you know, in addition tothat, I think what's really
(05:36):
crucial about you know, leadingthose 40 people, is that I
somehow am responsible for alsohelp them to develop and grow.
I have three, so 40 worldwide,but three direct reports and
then the remaining team membersfeed into them.
So those three, like managers,really look to me for support,
development, kind of guidance,advice.
(05:56):
I find my role to be moretransformational.
When you're in that operationalspace, there's a heavy pressure
to continue to be efficient.
Um, you know you're viewed as acost right, you're not the front
of the business, so you reallyneed to pay close attention to
remaining efficient, building inprocesses that can be kind of
replicated, you know, or veryagile when things grow um, you
(06:20):
can still adapt, and so that's areally at the core of my
function in making sure thatwe're we're being, as you know,
efficient as possible.
I think that's really reallycrucial in my space.
But the leadership side of it Ilove, right, this is something
that I Really take to heart.
I really I think that I believeso hardly that, as a leader,
(06:44):
your, your single most importantresponsibility is to create
other leaders.
I read that in in Maxwell's thefive leadership leadership
principles and it stuck with meand it will forever stick with
me, because I do believe thatyou know, we have our
responsibility not only to thepeople that we leave, but even
to our organization, right, whenit comes to succession planning
and just really positioningpeople to be able to take over
(07:05):
when you leave, because you'renot gonna be there forever To be
ready for that.
So, you know, I do really feelstrongly about that.
Deshay Caines (07:12):
Yeah, no, definitely in in your bio you
you say something around thelong, basically I'm paraphrasing
here of you manage people theway you wish to be managed.
So how?
How did you wish to be managedthat you're changing now with
the people that you manage?
DeVika Bourne (07:26):
So I always you know, I always liked being
managed by someone who had anopen door of policy.
So someone who I felt verycomfortable with, who I trusted,
who, you know, had a highdegree of integrity, who I knew
when it was time to show up inthat room and speak my name and
promote me, would do it, and doit without even Meeting me to to
(07:49):
co-sign that message, right,because they knew me so well.
Right, they'd taken the time tolearn about me, to understand
me, to know both weaknesses andstrengths, and get in there and,
and really, you know, put meforward, push me outside of my
confidence.
And I do think I do that a lotwith my team.
I do kind of stretch them a bit, but that's where the growth
occurs, right.
So this is, this is somethingthat I, you know, try all the
(08:13):
time to, to help with my teamand their development.
But leading the way you want tobe lead is a core principle of
mine.
Oh sorry, the way you want tobe led.
Deshay Caines (08:20):
Yeah, I got it.
DeVika Bourne (08:21):
It's a core principle of mine and you know,
I just you know Sometimes youjust have to step back and say
would I have wanted that, wouldI have really wanted to know the
truth in this situation.
But it's time for feedback.
Do I want it fluffy or do Iwant to know right?
so that I have the opportunityto To actually change it or
correct it or address it.
Maybe there's something,there's a misunderstanding.
So it's those kinds of thingsthat really drive me to to want
(08:42):
to make sure I'm treating peoplethe way they, they and I would
want to be treated.
Deshay Caines (08:45):
Yeah, and then with managing so many people
with obviously differentpersonalities, right, and
cultures yeah, cultures too, andyou know trying to be.
You're not just leading women,you're leading men as well.
So how do you find that balancewith leading different people,
different personalities?
Like, what you do for a dachetis not the same that you would
do for Lara.
DeVika Bourne (09:04):
Like, how do?
Deshay Caines (09:05):
you do.
How do you manage all of that,I guess?
DeVika Bourne (09:08):
so you make mistakes.
Deshay Caines (09:11):
I Do you make mistakes.
DeVika Bourne (09:14):
I will never forget, so I I'm not.
I haven't been in this room forvery long.
Deshay Caines (09:17):
I.
DeVika Bourne (09:18):
I assumed this position in 2020.
Deshay Caines (09:20):
Mm-hmm, that's three years ago.
That's pretty yeah yeah, you'reright.
That time flew by.
DeVika Bourne (09:26):
Yeah, it did but I remember sending an email to
one of my managers and copyinganother manager in and that
manager was so offended by Mesending the email the way I did.
It was partly called cultural,also just misunderstanding.
Yeah, and it was.
You know she was in Europe andyou know she was very upset, she
(09:49):
called me, she was amisinterpreter, is like just
completely offended, and Ididn't look at it like that.
But it gave me the opportunityto step back and say, okay, now
I know how I need to set thatthat kind of relationship up.
So I think you, you know, tosome degree you will make
mistakes as it pertains tolearning.
Yeah, people, there are cultures, what's what works, what
(10:10):
doesn't work, and that helps tokind of guide you through it.
I Think that you know,obviously, language is something
that creates a huge barrierbetween people, but you have to
to just slow down.
I speak very fast.
So that was something I had toreally learn.
I remember a manager one of mymanagers in Zurich.
He said you speak like amachine gun.
(10:30):
I was like, oh my gracious itgave me the opportunity.
Okay, slow down.
Yeah, look, you don't want themessage lost, right?
They need to understand you andthen you know how you know
guide people through, how, whatyou're trying to explain, the
outcome that you're trying toreceive and things like that.
(10:51):
So it's been a lot of learning,but I do think you have you.
You will make a few mistakes,especially when you're dealing
with so many different culturesand personalities and genders.
Deshay Caines (11:00):
You know yeah, no and I love that you said in the
beginning to making mistakes.
Part of it.
Right, because a lot of times,as as leaders, as people in
positions where they managepeople, they don't necessarily
admit that they got somethingwrong.
You know what I mean.
So most times it's just likeokay, cool, whatever, you just
keep it going and there's neverthe acknowledgement of that
(11:20):
mistake, or you know what adishe.
Do you think I could have donethis differently to better
support you?
like working off your strengthsand not necessarily pushing
those weaknesses all the time.
So it's it's.
It's such a delicate balance,like I can think of a horrible
manager that I've had in thepast you know, I mean, and
everything they did wrong butthen I also can think of really
(11:40):
great managers who gave me tonsof skills that I needed, and
those ones were the ones thatwere like you know what I'm
sorry one I got that wrong andthen they figured out the best
way to essentially make itbetter for you as the employee.
DeVika Bourne (11:53):
Yeah, it's always key.
It is and it's a space ofvulnerability, right.
So, and that's a very difficultspace as a manager, because you
somehow I think we've beentaught that you need to appear
strong.
You know you don't want toappear weak, you don't want
people to take advantage of you,take your kindness for weakness
, but to some degree, peopleneed to see that element of you,
right, because it brings back alittle bit of humanity into
(12:14):
this very structured businesswhere I don't really answer
often and I think I've had thebest results of teams where
they've actually seen like, hey,I'm just a human, like I am
Zafika over here, toronto, makeit just like you, you know.
So I think you get the bestresults out of people and they
respect you a lot more.
From that, right, you can saysorry, I made a mistake.
Look, that's how can we moveforward.
Give me some feedback.
(12:36):
How do you think I'm doingRight?
Let's open that dialogue, let'stell me you know, so that I
also have the opportunity to fixit.
Deshay Caines (12:41):
Yeah, that's really key.
So let's take it back a littlebit, right?
So when you first started outin your career, did you ever
think that you would be in theposition you are right now,
leading a team of 40 in eightdifferent countries around the
world?
Like, was that the end goal tobe in?
DeVika Bourne (12:55):
leadership.
End goal to be in leadership.
I didn't know that this wouldbe the journey I'd take to get
there, but I always saw myselfin some type of leadership
capacity.
I've always been.
You know, I've always putmyself out there in kind of
different scenarios, even fromhigh school, like deputy house
captain and you know, just doingdifferent sports.
Deshay Caines (13:17):
Oh no, I'm struggling just to back.
DeVika Bourne (13:19):
then I used to run, but these knees are not set
up like that anymore.
But no, I you know just kind ofdoing things like that.
Youth parliament was back then.
I was part of that you knowGerman club.
I went to Rotary, I was aRotary exchange student, so it's
like all of those things thatkind of.
You know I did that thatrequired a lot of strength on my
(13:41):
own, so so it didn't surpriseme being in a leadership
position.
It was kind of how I got there.
Deshay Caines (13:46):
Yeah, and what?
What was the, I guess,surprising aspect of the how?
DeVika Bourne (13:52):
Um, I guess the most surprising aspect was well,
first of all, it happenedrapidly.
I went into, I came into a rowat partnering and then 11 months
later they were like you'regoing to lead the team, and I
wasn't.
I don't even think personally.
I was at a place where I wantedto do that yet because I just
found out I was pregnant andhaving my daughter and I hadn't
even told my department.
(14:13):
But you know, it is what it is.
Sometimes you just have to kindof roll with with what's
happening at the time and justdo it.
So I think it was a lot soonerthan I expected, and I don't
know if that's a good thing or abad thing, cause to some degree
I'm a big proponent for peopletaking risks early in their
career and because I gotthrusted so early into this
management position, I wanted toto master that somehow I think
(14:35):
I lost sight a little bit ofmaybe.
I want to change and do this ordo that Right.
So I think that probably wouldbe my thing on the how.
Deshay Caines (14:43):
Yeah, definitely, and so you went to school to be
a CPA.
DeVika Bourne (14:48):
I went to school and I got a business degree in
finance.
I had so.
So even before that, I wantedto be a lawyer.
Deshay Caines (14:56):
This is so insane and I'm looking at Lara because
the amounts of women that havesat on this couch and said they
wanted to be a lawyer myselfincluded.
And we have gotten.
I don't think anyone has been alawyer.
It's so crazy.
So that's what that look camefrom, because literally, so many
.
DeVika Bourne (15:13):
Yeah, when I was in high school I wanted to be a
lawyer and then I did embroidery, came back from uni to college,
still fluffing around a bit.
Then I went to work in bankingand I think that kind of sparked
my interest a little bit intothat finance route.
So I went to work I was workingat Prometheus Commercial Bank
back then and it was a greatfoundation, great team, people
(15:34):
who really had a vested interestin your development and success
.
So I went to university,studied finance, thought I
wanted to start BScFA but wasn't100% sure, said I would come
back, get a job.
So I got straight intoreinsurance and from there I was
just I got into accounting.
So it was just a natural fit.
But I was still kind of tryingto figure out what I wanted to
(15:54):
do, whether it would beunderwriting, whether it would
be finance, and I think Isettled settled, that sounds
great.
I think I ended up withstudying to be an accountant
because that foundational degreeI felt was really, really
important.
Right, there's a greatfoundation to being able to
understand finance andaccounting because it can
(16:17):
translate into any industry.
So I think that was what wasvery appealing to me in becoming
an accountant?
Deshay Caines (16:22):
Okay, definitely.
And then so once you became anaccountant and you went into
reinsurance like what were someof the other qualifications, you
kind of got after that toremain in that industry.
DeVika Bourne (16:31):
So everybody was asked for this and, to be honest
, I haven't gotten any other,like insurance or reinsurance
designations.
It's been all experience based.
I've done you would have seenon my resume a lot of leadership
kind of focus, so that has beena big part of my educational
journey.
But from a specific coreinsurance designation side, I
(16:54):
haven't done much.
I don't know.
I think, because I do believethere's an element of it that
you just need to learn on thejob.
But the thing is was I wasstudying to be an accountant, I
had just gotten married, soafter that, all of that happened
.
I just wanted to break.
There was no more educationenergy in me, and since then you
(17:15):
know everything.
Life happens yeah.
Deshay Caines (17:17):
No, I have a friend who is a CPA and I know I
literally talk to her all thetime about her journey, when she
was getting all her exams.
So I completely I can empathizewith it because you know those
exams are no joke.
DeVika Bourne (17:29):
So I can totally understand that it's just tires
me out thinking about it, justthinking about it now Exactly.
Deshay Caines (17:34):
So tell me about Little Devico.
Why did you want to be a nichebefore you know lawyer?
But as like Little Devico,eight years old, what does she
want to do?
DeVika Bourne (17:42):
It's funny because at eight years old I
knew I wanted to be a lawyerReally.
Like I was very decisive backthen.
My grandma would always say,like I would always say Nope,
I'm going to be a lawyer, I'mgoing to be a lawyer, I'm
definitely going to be a lawyer,don't?
I think it's because I had thisnatural knack for talking and,
you know, debating, and so Ifelt like that would be a good
career choice.
Yeah, but being a lawyer wasalways, always something I
(18:04):
wanted to do and be.
I remember my grandma seeingNicole Sternum one day, and we
were at Hamelson, I mean PagetPharmacy, and she was like my
granddaughter wants to be alawyer, take her under your wing
, be her mentor.
And we still have arelationship to today.
Deshay Caines (18:20):
That's really cool, yeah, and.
DeVika Bourne (18:21):
I, even though I didn't pursue the law root, but
you know, this was something Iknew I wanted to be from a very
long time.
Deshay Caines (18:26):
Yeah, and did you play?
I know you said you used to runwhen you were younger, but what
other extracurriculars were youinvolved in?
DeVika Bourne (18:33):
So running was the main thing.
It's funny to say I don'tremember doing a whole lot as a
young person from a sportsperspective.
I did a little bit of dance butdidn't stay in that.
But as a result my girls are ineverything, so it's like I
didn't do it all, but I want youto do it.
(18:53):
Yeah, so I can't.
I was, you know, my mom was, itwas just her in the household,
so she worked a lot and so youknow, from a from a parent
support perspective, she wasn'table to take me around to all of
the activities that I needed todo and things like that.
But you know that that didn'treally stop me exploring other
things.
Deshay Caines (19:13):
So how would you say, knowing that now about your
mom and you know yourrelationship that way, how would
you say that that's kind ofmolded you into the leader and
mom that you are today?
DeVika Bourne (19:22):
Yeah, so I've definitely taken on the taken
the approach that I really wantmy girls to have exposure to as
much as possible at an early age.
I recognize that they will dropthings, they will say I hate
this, I don't want to do itanymore.
But I do think the exposure iskey because it helps them to
make a decision, find somethingthey love.
(19:43):
I you know I laugh now and sayif I had gotten to a sport
hardcore when I was young,physical exercise wouldn't be
such a big deal anymore at thisage, right.
Deshay Caines (19:50):
I don't think that's the case, but I was.
Oh, you are looking at.
DeVika Bourne (19:55):
But I always say, you know maybe.
So now I really try to exposethem to as much, to as much as
possible, just in hopes that,you know, something finally
sticks.
I mean, dance has stuck forthem.
They absolutely love to dance,but, you know, in hopes that
this will carry them through alittle bit further as well.
Deshay Caines (20:11):
Yeah, so you have this job and I talk about and I
obviously interview a lot ofwomen with big jobs, right, and
we always it always comes tothis question around work and
family and husband and balanceand all of those types of things
.
How do you manage to juggle allof that?
DeVika Bourne (20:29):
Yeah, so the B word is a bad word, Because
balance basically just doesn'texist for me.
If something's getting done,something else isn't Juggling.
I mean, prioritization isextremely key for me.
At one point in time somethinghas to take priority, At another
point in time something doesn't.
(20:50):
I have a lot of help, a bigsupport system, I will say,
which I'm extremely thankful for.
So that is a huge help in mayhelp me to achieve everything,
because I think it's the momcomponent that really tips it
over the edge right.
Going to work and getting itall done is fine, I can get that
, I can handle that.
But when you add in, you know,two daughters trying to do their
(21:13):
schedule, getting it all done,come home, be a mom, be a wife,
still be an employee, it can getvery overwhelming.
So I just have to reallysometimes just sit back and say
what needs my priority now,right?
I do have a rule that I don'tlook at my emails before I leave
the house, because I rememberone person, the lady I work with
(21:33):
.
She was like don't do that,because you're going to be in
work mode before you even leaveand then you can't give your
children the attention they needbefore you throw off to school.
You're already, like you know,in a boardroom and not with them
.
And so I do have that rulewhere no reading emails before
you leave the house.
You can check them as soon asthey get out of the car.
You can be like okay in traffic, but not before I am out of
(21:57):
their sight.
And even when I'm trying tolike when I get home and there's
things I need to still do, Itry my best to kind of put them
to bed first and then go back on.
So I am really strict that onduring the week about it's time
for bed.
Like you know, you guys have togo, even if you're just in your
room laying down, notnecessarily sleep, but that
gives me cars all the time forme to be able to now refocus and
get other things that I may nothave gotten done.
Deshay Caines (22:20):
And then how do you still have date night with
the hubby and that type ofbalance too?
DeVika Bourne (22:24):
Yeah, and he has a very demanding job too, right,
so this is a tricky one.
So we've tried a few thingslike let's commit to a series
that we watch every single weekon that day, right, and we can
do that.
Or let's talk, but we struggle.
I mean, if I'm being honest,that's a hard one.
I mean during the week, youknow he's still working until 11
(22:48):
o'clock at night.
You know it could be me that'sdoing that, and so, luckily, we
do have a really strongrelationship.
We talk often, you know.
Deshay Caines (22:55):
We laugh a lot, he is.
DeVika Bourne (22:58):
We laugh a lot, but that one, that one, is hard,
especially when you throw anyschedules of the children and
everything else, and trying tofind a night where it actually
works, you know, finding ababysitter, all of that.
Yeah, that's a.
That's one we're still tryingto perfect.
Deshay Caines (23:14):
Yeah, but I feel like you know both of you know
that and still trying to worktogether on that is helpful,
right?
Because, sometimes someone elseis pushing it more than the
other, and I guess the balancethere is that both of you know
that something is you're stillworking on and you know, even if
it means you watch the seriesand fall asleep together,
Exactly, exactly.
DeVika Bourne (23:34):
And I mean, you know it can be just like now
we're trying to make sure thatwe eat dinner together with the
girls, so that you know we'retalking, you know we're having
that conversation all four of usreally.
You know just shooting thebreeze right, just saying how
your day was just and that istime right, and so it's all of
those little things.
I remember at one point we werelike so on the go, it's like
get your food, you know,nobody's, somebody's on the
(23:56):
couch, somebody's at thebreakfast table, like it now is
like no, let's carve this timeout and really sit down and take
30 minutes to enjoy each other.
Deshay Caines (24:04):
Is it difficult to switch off from, like you
know, big boss mode to mommy andwife mode when you get home,
like I know I don't have that,but like if I've had a really
crappy day at work, like I needa minute?
You know to get myself together.
Like how do you do that?
I mean, I mean I don't have towalk through the door, I've had
a crap day right and it's justlike mommy, mommy, mommy, like
how do you do that?
DeVika Bourne (24:26):
Honestly.
I mean what I do do now is I goin my room for like at least 20
minutes.
I'll learn with the airconditioning just blast and then
just lay there right and just,whether it be looking on my
phone or looking at TV or doingabsolutely nothing.
I just need 20 minutes, right,and then usually Mark will be
coming home and he will be he.
(24:47):
He was going, but at least justcarve out that little bit of
time is not a lot, but it givesme that minute.
I remember living in St David'sused to, because we used to
live in St David's before, sothat drive used to be almost
like yes, it was a decompressionright.
But now we're in Devonshire, soyou're him, so everything
happened so fast.
But usually I try to just goaway for, like you know, 15, 20
(25:10):
minutes.
Just give me a second,especially if it's been a rough
day.
Deshay Caines (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, those rough days are gotta be tough
you know?
DeVika Bourne (25:16):
Yeah, they are.
Deshay Caines (25:17):
Yeah, and people don't really understand that
weight of a leader of certainthings making decisions, budgets
, all that type of stuff Gotpeople's lives in your hand
right, absolutely exactly.
So when you're in that, in thatprocess of it, like how do you
kind of make those decisions asa leader, when knowing you've
got someone's life in your handBecause you talk about being an
(25:37):
intimate leader and knowing yourteam and things like that and
when you have to make decisionsthat could affect the person
that you know's livelihood, likehow does that, how do you feel,
how do you navigate that?
DeVika Bourne (25:47):
Yeah, this is interesting because I sometimes,
when I'm in this kind ofsituations, I say would it be
easier to have kept that kind ofblock up where you don't know
so much and you just kind ofrobotically just do everything?
But no, because I still thinkit's important to build those
relationships with your team.
(26:08):
You know, I try to be as fairand as diplomatic as possible
and what I always say is that alot of things that we do as
leaders is confidential, right.
I think people don't find out.
But I always say that ifsomething were to happen, if
there were some type of cyberattack and everything was
exposed, I would be able tostand on every decision I've
(26:28):
made if everything came to lightright and so, with fairness,
with you know, thoughts, withconcern, all of the decisions
that I've made, I've done tomaking sure that I keep
everybody kind of in view asbest as I can, because you can't
do it for everybody.
Deshay Caines (26:45):
That's not possible.
So, knowing all of that nowright, what do you think is
something people misunderstandabout you?
DeVika Bourne (26:52):
I think there's a guard up to some degree because
, especially in the office thatyou need to have, because
there's certain conversationsyou can't have, there's certain
information that you know thatnobody else knows right, and so
it's difficult to navigate thatsubstance sometimes other than
just kind of shutting down andbeing a little bit more yeah,
(27:16):
you know recluse.
Deshay Caines (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
DeVika Bourne (27:19):
And I think I carry that sometimes outside of
work right, which maybe I canshut it off.
I do keep very.
I have a very small circle.
But that's just me.
I'm a creature of habit.
I like to, I like my samefriends, I like that same group,
I like to be able to just havethat network that I can depend
on and trust and that works forme.
Deshay Caines (27:38):
Yeah, but I think as we get older as well, to
like the having that many, a lotof friends isn't always the
right thing.
You know like sometimes thepeople that you think of your
friends.
You find out that they're not.
You get bitten, yes, and thenyou know, feel some type of way
about it.
DeVika Bourne (27:55):
So I get.
Deshay Caines (27:56):
I get having less of those core people yeah, for
sure.
And so how often do you likelean on those guys when it comes
to like anything?
DeVika Bourne (28:03):
Yeah.
So I always get concerned thatI'm being too heavy, right.
So I don't want to be the onewho's always just filled with
like just something right, but Ido always have something going
on From a work perspective.
I keep that very, very separate, because you kind of need to,
especially in being such a smallcommunity.
(28:25):
So you know, I certain things Ijust can't talk about right,
but personal things I have my,my core friends that I can lean
on.
You know I've had some reallytouchy things that have occurred
in my life that I've always hadthat support there really
available.
We don't talk all the timebecause we all have lives and
we're all busy, but I alwaysknew that, you know, should
(28:45):
something go down.
They're there they got your back.
You're right, it does right,yeah.
Deshay Caines (28:50):
So when you think about you know your entire
career, you look at the you knowgamut of things that you've
done.
All of that, like what do youlook?
You can look back and say youknow what.
This is the why, this is my,why this is my motivation to
keep going.
You know, I'm sure there's morethings in your future that you
want to do, especiallyprofessionally, as a mom and as
a wife, but why do you?
What motivates you to keepgoing?
DeVika Bourne (29:12):
Well, now, definitely having my daughters,
that is a huge motivation.
They are a huge motivation forme to, to want to keep going.
I mean, my work in the DNIspace is a lot to do with that
right, just trying to shape thefuture, whereas they have a
better chance at, you know,growth, success, kind of
exposure, all of those thingsand I speak about that a lot at
(29:34):
work.
You know, having two daughters,female and black, you know
these are definitely barriersthat they will have to overcome
as they, you know, go through.
So now, I think, having havingmy daughters being in a, in a,
coming from a single parenthousehold, it was also very
important to me to try to buildsomething for myself that you
(29:55):
know resembled a lot morestability for myself, my family
and just, you know, beingprepared to be to get old right,
like you know, ready to to tojust, you know, not have to
depend on anyone, my children,all of that.
So there's a really huge kindof motivations for me, as I, you
(30:15):
know, work hard on what I'mdoing it for and my, my heart
and my life.
Deshay Caines (30:19):
Yeah, so you said something just now around when
you kind of look into crap, Ijust lost what I was saying.
Uh, when you said, said itaround going back and breaking
glass ceilings and making surefor your daughters that you know
they don't have to come intothe same environment that you
had have come through.
(30:39):
Like, what are some of thethings as a leader that you're
doing in your environment toensure that you know it's not
the same?
Things are not having to bedone every time?
You know there's a new womanthat comes into leadership, a
black woman, a Romanian womanthat comes into leadership,
she's not having to go through,quote unquote, break the same
glass ceiling that you've had tobreak.
Um, what are some of thosethings that you're ensuring.
DeVika Bourne (31:01):
So I mean, now I think we're at a stage where
having that there's toughconversations is what's helping
to break some of those ceilingsRight.
So I think, if I'm being reallyhonest, we have a long way to
go.
Yeah, um, and so just being ata stage to be able to have those
conversations, you know thatthat whole, you know you have a
seat at the table.
That's not just a meme.
(31:21):
Yeah, this is serious.
When you do have a seat at thetable, you need to make sure
that the message that you'resaying is heard and understood
so that it translates intoaction when you leave that table
Right.
And so for me, it's really,really important that you know
the journey of us is understoodright, and and and why so much
of it has to change and becomemore equitable, more fair.
(31:44):
You know a lot, not necessarilyeasy, because I don't expect
anything to be given, but just,you know, balanced, right.
That's a place where I can usebalance, yeah you're right,
absolutely.
Deshay Caines (31:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
And I mean, why do you thinkwe're having such a hard time?
I mean, the needle's movingright, but it's not moving in a
rapid way.
Why do you think industry Ithink it's across the board, not
just, you know, the insuranceand reinsurance industry but why
do you think we're having this?
Like we just feel like we'regetting to the door and just you
(32:16):
know, going back, back andforth, back and forth.
Why do you think that is?
DeVika Bourne (32:19):
I think it's too failed.
I think not everybody's reallycomfortable with the topic.
I think people feel like theyneed to do something around it
not necessarily be comfortablewith it and proactively want to
see change.
Right, because I said it in ameeting the other day, I think
it's a little disingenuous whenyou're reactive as a Britannian,
as a DNI issues rather thanbeing proactive, right?
(32:39):
So you need to be proactivelyseeking out opportunities to
make some change there.
And then you know, as a leaderand I say this too we kind of
need to get out of our way,right?
So what that means is that wehave to step back and say I need
to give someone else the toolsthey need in order to be able to
take my role when I'm not readyto be here anymore, right.
(33:02):
I also need to understand thatif I really want to effect
change, if I really want to seethe needle move, that
understanding that a lot ofdemographics didn't have
exposure to that experience thatmay mean that, as a leader, I
am going to have to take theperson that has two years
experience rather than fiveyears experience, and help to
build them up a little bit, andthat's the sacrifice we're going
to need to make.
(33:22):
We really really want to seechange, and until we really sit
back and say this is what I'mgoing to need to do and this is
my responsibility if I want toreally see something different,
I think we're going to keepknocking on their doors and not
being able to open them.
Deshay Caines (33:35):
Yeah, so I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Where I get nervous is we'recreating these environment,
calling them career changers andall that type of stuff.
Right, we're welcoming peoplein and not everyone has the
mindset that you do with takingthe time to then build them up
to where they have to go.
And then we're setting people upessentially for failure.
(33:56):
And I said this on a differentpanel and I was essentially like
, if you're not in a position inyour environment to welcome
these people in and train themadequately, you're better off
not hiring them, right.
But in saying that, with whatyou just said just now, it's
kind of twofold, because it'slike we don't want people to not
be in the environment.
(34:17):
So how do we get companies andorganizations to be like you
know what?
We're going to welcome them in,but we're also going to
dedicate the time and resourcesto train them up adequately.
DeVika Bourne (34:26):
Yeah, so leaders need to be held to a standard.
It needs to be tied to performit.
That's part of your performance, right?
That is what you need to do.
You can't bring someone in thedoor and just drop them there
and think, oh, I'll figure itout.
I mean, then you're not doingyour job and you need to be tied
to that.
Right.
You need to be held to makingsure that you're training people
(34:48):
up, that you're giving them theopportunity, that you're giving
them the exposure, and ifyou're not, then you're not
doing what you've been hired todo, right, and so that makes
people feel uncomfortablebecause nobody wants to be tied
to that.
But ultimately, what are youdoing If you're hiring someone
and bringing them in the doorand just leaving them they're
knowing that they need someassistance and then, in a year,
(35:08):
complaining that they aren'tdoing a good job.
What have you done?
Support reflection on you as aleader.
It's a poor reflection when youas a leader, and and and I think
Us other leaders need to alsoget comfortable with speaking up
when they see that happening.
Right, because we also have aresponsibility, not just to our
teams, yeah, but to all teamsand the company, to say, hey,
(35:30):
what's going on with that person?
Like why are they not Thriving?
Why are we not seeing more fromthem?
Is there a performance issue?
Leader to leader you can accessquestions, right, and and kind
of you just like holding yourfriend accountable.
Like you don't like a boyfriend.
Why can't you say something toso?
Why can't you say something toall about?
Do issues leading and, and, and?
What lack of assistanceproviding to that employee.
(35:52):
That's just brought in.
Deshay Caines (35:53):
So Do you feel like there's a lot of resistance
and More so with men when youdo things like that within women
, or is it just blanket acrossthe board?
DeVika Bourne (36:02):
I'm thankful that I work at a company where I
don't see that Right.
So I think you know that'sthat's.
One fantastic thing about mycompany is that we I don't have
I've now I haven't experiencedit, but I can clear, I can see
that that would probably be anissue in other Spaces and it
could create a little bit ofintimidation as well, like not
wanting to to really call peopleout and yeah.
Deshay Caines (36:30):
So what does like success look like for you
ultimately?
Right, like I know you said,you've kind of ascended into
this role like a little bitQuicker than you expected to
initially.
But what is what is definingsuccess in this role as a leader
of your team?
DeVika Bourne (36:46):
I think success for me in this role as a leader
would be that I have Adequatelygiven Opportunity to my team
members, that they felt asthough they can thrive, that
they they worked for a team thatwas healthy, that was
appreciative, that's.
You know they, they were a partof change.
(37:07):
Right, we're change wasn'tnecessarily dictated because we
have a lot of change going whenI think we're a while in general
.
Right, but people want to feelpart of that and I think that
helps with our acceptance.
So know that you know they werebrought along that journey with
us, that their feedback, youknow, mattered.
If my team members took backand said that about me, I would
feel like, yes, I, that'sexactly what I wanted to achieve
(37:28):
and that would look likesuccess for me, absolutely.
Deshay Caines (37:30):
Yeah.
So I guess it's so crazybecause the time goes by so
quickly.
We're wrapping up a little bit,but I mean, when you look at
you, your Inspiration and wetalked about your why and your
motivating factors, like whatwould you go back and tell you
know, beginning of her careerDeveka, what you know now, or
even other another woman that'sjust starting out her career,
(37:52):
what would you tell her with allof the knowledge you've kind of
have now?
DeVika Bourne (37:55):
Yeah, a couple of things.
Take risk early, right.
Try things out like if youdon't like it, then move on to
something else.
But take those risks and reallydefine what you want to do
because, look, this is prettyrest of your life, right.
Define that by.
By trying things out early,early You're gonna get to a
stage where risk is too risky.
Um, and I think you know Onething that I reflect on a lot is
(38:20):
the good will that I've paidinto my organization early.
When I call it like at the verybeginning right, because I think
as we get to a certain stage inour careers where we come
mothers, we were stretched alittle bit and so because your
organization knows you, you'vebuilt that reputation.
You know your solid no one'sgonna question kind of you know,
your ability to get things doneor to take on additional tasks.
(38:42):
Building up that good willright from the very beginning
really will pay off in dividendsbecause you will, you could
potentially get to a stage whereyou know you're juggling a lot
and so being able to do as muchas you did when you were fresh
in the door, right out of youknow, off of an accounting
designation, versus ten yearslater where you now may have
(39:03):
children and and differentthings like that.
That will pay off for yousignificantly.
Right, build that reputationand and make sure that people
know you, understand you.
Deshay Caines (39:12):
That's really really respect that word.
Work, product, right.
You're producing, absolutelyyeah, all right.
And then, finally, everyquestion acts, every guest
before they leave the couch.
When you're no longer on thisplanet and you're no longer with
, you know the people that youlove and you know not gonna work
there's a long time from now,but what is something that you
want to be remembered for?
When someone says your name,you want them to say acts that.
DeVika Bourne (39:35):
I had a lot of integrity, that I was a joy to
be around, that I wastrustworthy.
You know I kept my word honest,that I was.
I showed up, you know, and Iprovided support when I, when I,
when they needed it the most,and I made them feel good.
Right, because that's a feat.
You may not see me, but youwould never forget what I did
(39:57):
for you inside and how I madeyou feel so.
Deshay Caines (40:01):
Well, that's it.
DeVika Bourne (40:10):
I don't know what it is, what this culture?
You know calm yeah yeah, yeah,thank you so much, all right,
guys, thanks so much forspending some time with me today
.
Deshay Caines (40:22):
We had the amazing DeVica born on.
She is the senior vicepresident of head of and head of
underwriting operations atPartnery.
We're really grateful for hersharing her story and her
experiences, her leadershipstyle and everything she brings
to the table with us today.
As always, make sure you headover to the website hustle her
podcast, calm, sign up to becomea VIP member.
You can see DeVica's Bio onthere.
(40:44):
You can also see someadditional of the behind the
scenes that we have, as well aslike the blogs, and we can do
some additional chit chattingthere.
As always, thank you to ouramazing sponsors, brown and Co,
as well as 59 front.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with me today and with
DeVica today, and thank you forwatching hustle her podcast.
It's time for hustle her podcast.
I'm your host, deshae Keynes.
Hustle her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders we are
today.
If you're an enterprising womandetermined to succeed and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back tohustle her podcast.
Thanks again for spending sometime with me today.
For those of you, if it's yourfirst time here, welcome.
(00:42):
And for our returning listenersand viewers, thank you again
for coming in check, checking usout.
Um big thank you to oursponsors today Brown and Co and
59 front.
Make sure you guys head over to59 front and check out all the
different products that theyhave down there.
They have some amazing brands,from Joe Malone to La Mer and
some initial other things thatyou guys could try out down
(01:03):
there.
So you should definitely headover to 59 front if you have not
recently.
I have an amazing guest todaywho I'm super excited to have on
the podcast today.
She is the SVP and head ofunderwriting operations at
partner.
We miss DeVica.
Hey, how are you?
I'm very, very happy thatyou're here.
Um, I know we were talkingabout a pre show, but I love the
(01:26):
lipstick color.
DeVika Bourne (01:27):
It's super cute.
I love lipsticks.
I wanted to try something alittle bit less subtle.
Deshay Caines (01:34):
It works, it works, it definitely works.
All right, so we'll jump intosome questions to get everyone
to get to know you reallyquickly.
It's giving me the first thingthat comes to mind and then
we'll jump in.
Cool, all right.
I'm happiest when I'm with mychildren, okay, um, what do you
do on a plane?
DeVika Bourne (01:51):
Oh, either read or listen to music, okay.
All right, no more skincareroutine, um, so I use circadian
products every morning, everynight wash, SPF lotion yeah, spf
has become a regular routine.
Deshay Caines (02:09):
Same for me.
I use black girls on screen.
Um.
I didn't do that when I wasyounger, but definitely not yeah
, for sure, all right.
What did you spend your firstbig paycheck on?
DeVika Bourne (02:21):
Um, first big paycheck.
I had already bought a house bythe time I got to a first big
paycheck, so I knew it wassomething for the house.
I just can't pinpoint exactlywhat it was.
Deshay Caines (02:33):
Okay, I'm okay with that.
All right, uh, who would yousay is your closest friend right
now?
Oh my gosh.
DeVika Bourne (02:38):
Um well outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines (02:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
DeVika Bourne (02:42):
So, outside of my husband, I have had lifelong
girlfriends that I'm soincredibly thankful for.
So um names.
Deshay Caines (02:49):
If you want to.
I don't want you to forgetanybody and it becomes a problem
.
DeVika Bourne (02:53):
Right, exactly, exactly, but no, I have lifelong
high school friends from highschool that we continue to have
the best and closestrelationship, so perfect.
So outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines (03:03):
All right, nice.
I love that you said outside ofmy house.
Yeah, like duh, all right, whatdoes love feel like?
DeVika Bourne (03:10):
Oh gosh, you know , it feels appreciated, it feels
reciprocal, um, because ofcourse you can feel it, but you
also have to be, you know, giventhat exact same emotion, back
Um wholesome, um, happy, excited, spontaneous, all of those
(03:31):
things.
Deshay Caines (03:32):
Okay, all right.
What is your hidden talent?
DeVika Bourne (03:39):
Um, I don't know if I necessarily have a hidden
talent.
Deshay Caines (03:44):
Okay, Uh, it's fine.
It's fine If all the talentsare out there no longer hidden.
DeVika Bourne (03:49):
That's what we'll say.
Deshay Caines (03:51):
All right, celebrity crush.
DeVika Bourne (03:52):
I knew you were going to actually.
Deshay Caines (03:55):
It's become a thing.
Yeah, it was not intended, andthen it just became a thing.
DeVika Bourne (03:59):
I thought about it and I, if I think back to
like my old crush, I don't thinkI have one right now but.
Beyonce is my crush.
She'll always be my crush, so.
Deshay Caines (04:07):
I'm going next week and I can't wait, I went to
in August.
DeVika Bourne (04:11):
Um, but when I was like in university, usher
was definitely a crush on mine.
I remember catching the busfrom Wolfville to Halifax to
that record store to buy thatone CD.
Deshay Caines (04:21):
Can you imagine if you used to buy a CD?
DeVika Bourne (04:23):
Exactly.
I'm playing it over and overand over.
When I got back to my dormwhich.
Cd was it.
Deshay Caines (04:28):
Confessions Okay yeah, confessions was a.
That was a good album.
Confessions part two yeah, burn, he had so many songs on that
one.
Yeah, it's still a great album.
DeVika Bourne (04:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Deshay Caines (04:38):
Daphne, you got to head over to Vegas to go see
him.
DeVika Bourne (04:40):
I know we were just there and he wasn't
performing during that week.
Deshay Caines (04:44):
He extended his dates, just saying all right.
And then, finally, what is yourcut match team?
DeVika Bourne (04:50):
It's St George's Mercy.
Deshay Caines (04:52):
Just two, two for three today.
Mercy, all right, sorry, can'tcontinue.
DeVika Bourne (04:58):
I'm joking.
Deshay Caines (04:59):
All right, so let's jump in.
So I read off your title, bigtitle right Senior vice
president, um, and you are thehead of underwriting operations
at partner re, so walk methrough leadership in that
aspect in your current role.
DeVika Bourne (05:13):
Yeah, so I am responsible for a team of about
40 right now in eight locationsworldwide, um, and really we're
just responsible for all of theadministration side of the
underwriting process.
So we're very much supportiveto all of the underwriters
worldwide at partnering Um.
But I, you know, in addition tothat, I think what's really
(05:36):
crucial about you know, leadingthose 40 people, is that I
somehow am responsible for alsohelp them to develop and grow.
I have three, so 40 worldwide,but three direct reports and
then the remaining team membersfeed into them.
So those three, like managers,really look to me for support,
development, kind of guidance,advice.
(05:56):
I find my role to be moretransformational.
When you're in that operationalspace, there's a heavy pressure
to continue to be efficient.
Um, you know you're viewed as acost right, you're not the front
of the business, so you reallyneed to pay close attention to
remaining efficient, building inprocesses that can be kind of
replicated, you know, or veryagile when things grow um, you
(06:20):
can still adapt, and so that's areally at the core of my
function in making sure thatwe're we're being, as you know,
efficient as possible.
I think that's really reallycrucial in my space.
But the leadership side of it Ilove, right, this is something
that I Really take to heart.
I really I think that I believeso hardly that, as a leader,
(06:44):
your, your single most importantresponsibility is to create
other leaders.
I read that in in Maxwell's thefive leadership leadership
principles and it stuck with meand it will forever stick with
me, because I do believe thatyou know, we have our
responsibility not only to thepeople that we leave, but even
to our organization, right, whenit comes to succession planning
and just really positioningpeople to be able to take over
(07:05):
when you leave, because you'renot gonna be there forever To be
ready for that.
So, you know, I do really feelstrongly about that.
Deshay Caines (07:12):
Yeah, no, definitely in in your bio you
you say something around thelong, basically I'm paraphrasing
here of you manage people theway you wish to be managed.
So how?
How did you wish to be managedthat you're changing now with
the people that you manage?
DeVika Bourne (07:26):
So I always you know, I always liked being
managed by someone who had anopen door of policy.
So someone who I felt verycomfortable with, who I trusted,
who, you know, had a highdegree of integrity, who I knew
when it was time to show up inthat room and speak my name and
promote me, would do it, and doit without even Meeting me to to
(07:49):
co-sign that message, right,because they knew me so well.
Right, they'd taken the time tolearn about me, to understand
me, to know both weaknesses andstrengths, and get in there and,
and really, you know, put meforward, push me outside of my
confidence.
And I do think I do that a lotwith my team.
I do kind of stretch them a bit, but that's where the growth
occurs, right.
So this is, this is somethingthat I, you know, try all the
(08:13):
time to, to help with my teamand their development.
But leading the way you want tobe lead is a core principle of
mine.
Oh sorry, the way you want tobe led.
Deshay Caines (08:20):
Yeah, I got it.
DeVika Bourne (08:21):
It's a core principle of mine and you know,
I just you know Sometimes youjust have to step back and say
would I have wanted that, wouldI have really wanted to know the
truth in this situation.
But it's time for feedback.
Do I want it fluffy or do Iwant to know right?
so that I have the opportunityto To actually change it or
correct it or address it.
Maybe there's something,there's a misunderstanding.
So it's those kinds of thingsthat really drive me to to want
(08:42):
to make sure I'm treating peoplethe way they, they and I would
want to be treated.
Deshay Caines (08:45):
Yeah, and then with managing so many people
with obviously differentpersonalities, right, and
cultures yeah, cultures too, andyou know trying to be.
You're not just leading women,you're leading men as well.
So how do you find that balancewith leading different people,
different personalities?
Like, what you do for a dachetis not the same that you would
do for Lara.
DeVika Bourne (09:04):
Like, how do?
Deshay Caines (09:05):
you do.
How do you manage all of that,I guess?
DeVika Bourne (09:08):
so you make mistakes.
Deshay Caines (09:11):
I Do you make mistakes.
DeVika Bourne (09:14):
I will never forget, so I I'm not.
I haven't been in this room forvery long.
Deshay Caines (09:17):
I.
DeVika Bourne (09:18):
I assumed this position in 2020.
Deshay Caines (09:20):
Mm-hmm, that's three years ago.
That's pretty yeah yeah, you'reright.
That time flew by.
DeVika Bourne (09:26):
Yeah, it did but I remember sending an email to
one of my managers and copyinganother manager in and that
manager was so offended by Mesending the email the way I did.
It was partly called cultural,also just misunderstanding.
Yeah, and it was.
You know she was in Europe andyou know she was very upset, she
(09:49):
called me, she was amisinterpreter, is like just
completely offended, and Ididn't look at it like that.
But it gave me the opportunityto step back and say, okay, now
I know how I need to set thatthat kind of relationship up.
So I think you, you know, tosome degree you will make
mistakes as it pertains tolearning.
Yeah, people, there are cultures, what's what works, what
(10:10):
doesn't work, and that helps tokind of guide you through it.
I Think that you know,obviously, language is something
that creates a huge barrierbetween people, but you have to
to just slow down.
I speak very fast.
So that was something I had toreally learn.
I remember a manager one of mymanagers in Zurich.
He said you speak like amachine gun.
(10:30):
I was like, oh my gracious itgave me the opportunity.
Okay, slow down.
Yeah, look, you don't want themessage lost, right?
They need to understand you andthen you know how you know
guide people through, how, whatyou're trying to explain, the
outcome that you're trying toreceive and things like that.
(10:51):
So it's been a lot of learning,but I do think you have you.
You will make a few mistakes,especially when you're dealing
with so many different culturesand personalities and genders.
Deshay Caines (11:00):
You know yeah, no and I love that you said in the
beginning to making mistakes.
Part of it.
Right, because a lot of times,as as leaders, as people in
positions where they managepeople, they don't necessarily
admit that they got somethingwrong.
You know what I mean.
So most times it's just likeokay, cool, whatever, you just
keep it going and there's neverthe acknowledgement of that
(11:20):
mistake, or you know what adishe.
Do you think I could have donethis differently to better
support you?
like working off your strengthsand not necessarily pushing
those weaknesses all the time.
So it's it's.
It's such a delicate balance,like I can think of a horrible
manager that I've had in thepast you know, I mean, and
everything they did wrong butthen I also can think of really
(11:40):
great managers who gave me tonsof skills that I needed, and
those ones were the ones thatwere like you know what I'm
sorry one I got that wrong andthen they figured out the best
way to essentially make itbetter for you as the employee.
DeVika Bourne (11:53):
Yeah, it's always key.
It is and it's a space ofvulnerability, right.
So, and that's a very difficultspace as a manager, because you
somehow I think we've beentaught that you need to appear
strong.
You know you don't want toappear weak, you don't want
people to take advantage of you,take your kindness for weakness
, but to some degree, peopleneed to see that element of you,
right, because it brings back alittle bit of humanity into
(12:14):
this very structured businesswhere I don't really answer
often and I think I've had thebest results of teams where
they've actually seen like, hey,I'm just a human, like I am
Zafika over here, toronto, makeit just like you, you know.
So I think you get the bestresults out of people and they
respect you a lot more.
From that, right, you can saysorry, I made a mistake.
Look, that's how can we moveforward.
Give me some feedback.
(12:36):
How do you think I'm doingRight?
Let's open that dialogue, let'stell me you know, so that I
also have the opportunity to fixit.
Deshay Caines (12:41):
Yeah, that's really key.
So let's take it back a littlebit, right?
So when you first started outin your career, did you ever
think that you would be in theposition you are right now,
leading a team of 40 in eightdifferent countries around the
world?
Like, was that the end goal tobe in?
DeVika Bourne (12:55):
leadership.
End goal to be in leadership.
I didn't know that this wouldbe the journey I'd take to get
there, but I always saw myselfin some type of leadership
capacity.
I've always been.
You know, I've always putmyself out there in kind of
different scenarios, even fromhigh school, like deputy house
captain and you know, just doingdifferent sports.
Deshay Caines (13:17):
Oh no, I'm struggling just to back.
DeVika Bourne (13:19):
then I used to run, but these knees are not set
up like that anymore.
But no, I you know just kind ofdoing things like that.
Youth parliament was back then.
I was part of that you knowGerman club.
I went to Rotary, I was aRotary exchange student, so it's
like all of those things thatkind of.
You know I did that thatrequired a lot of strength on my
(13:41):
own, so so it didn't surpriseme being in a leadership
position.
It was kind of how I got there.
Deshay Caines (13:46):
Yeah, and what?
What was the, I guess,surprising aspect of the how?
DeVika Bourne (13:52):
Um, I guess the most surprising aspect was well,
first of all, it happenedrapidly.
I went into, I came into a rowat partnering and then 11 months
later they were like you'regoing to lead the team, and I
wasn't.
I don't even think personally.
I was at a place where I wantedto do that yet because I just
found out I was pregnant andhaving my daughter and I hadn't
even told my department.
(14:13):
But you know, it is what it is.
Sometimes you just have to kindof roll with with what's
happening at the time and justdo it.
So I think it was a lot soonerthan I expected, and I don't
know if that's a good thing or abad thing, cause to some degree
I'm a big proponent for peopletaking risks early in their
career and because I gotthrusted so early into this
management position, I wanted toto master that somehow I think
(14:35):
I lost sight a little bit ofmaybe.
I want to change and do this ordo that Right.
So I think that probably wouldbe my thing on the how.
Deshay Caines (14:43):
Yeah, definitely, and so you went to school to be
a CPA.
DeVika Bourne (14:48):
I went to school and I got a business degree in
finance.
I had so.
So even before that, I wantedto be a lawyer.
Deshay Caines (14:56):
This is so insane and I'm looking at Lara because
the amounts of women that havesat on this couch and said they
wanted to be a lawyer myselfincluded.
And we have gotten.
I don't think anyone has been alawyer.
It's so crazy.
So that's what that look camefrom, because literally, so many
.
DeVika Bourne (15:13):
Yeah, when I was in high school I wanted to be a
lawyer and then I did embroidery, came back from uni to college,
still fluffing around a bit.
Then I went to work in bankingand I think that kind of sparked
my interest a little bit intothat finance route.
So I went to work I was workingat Prometheus Commercial Bank
back then and it was a greatfoundation, great team, people
(15:34):
who really had a vested interestin your development and success
.
So I went to university,studied finance, thought I
wanted to start BScFA but wasn't100% sure, said I would come
back, get a job.
So I got straight intoreinsurance and from there I was
just I got into accounting.
So it was just a natural fit.
But I was still kind of tryingto figure out what I wanted to
(15:54):
do, whether it would beunderwriting, whether it would
be finance, and I think Isettled settled, that sounds
great.
I think I ended up withstudying to be an accountant
because that foundational degreeI felt was really, really
important.
Right, there's a greatfoundation to being able to
understand finance andaccounting because it can
(16:17):
translate into any industry.
So I think that was what wasvery appealing to me in becoming
an accountant?
Deshay Caines (16:22):
Okay, definitely.
And then so once you became anaccountant and you went into
reinsurance like what were someof the other qualifications, you
kind of got after that toremain in that industry.
DeVika Bourne (16:31):
So everybody was asked for this and, to be honest
, I haven't gotten any other,like insurance or reinsurance
designations.
It's been all experience based.
I've done you would have seenon my resume a lot of leadership
kind of focus, so that has beena big part of my educational
journey.
But from a specific coreinsurance designation side, I
(16:54):
haven't done much.
I don't know.
I think, because I do believethere's an element of it that
you just need to learn on thejob.
But the thing is was I wasstudying to be an accountant, I
had just gotten married, soafter that, all of that happened
.
I just wanted to break.
There was no more educationenergy in me, and since then you
(17:15):
know everything.
Life happens yeah.
Deshay Caines (17:17):
No, I have a friend who is a CPA and I know I
literally talk to her all thetime about her journey, when she
was getting all her exams.
So I completely I can empathizewith it because you know those
exams are no joke.
DeVika Bourne (17:29):
So I can totally understand that it's just tires
me out thinking about it, justthinking about it now Exactly.
Deshay Caines (17:34):
So tell me about Little Devico.
Why did you want to be a nichebefore you know lawyer?
But as like Little Devico,eight years old, what does she
want to do?
DeVika Bourne (17:42):
It's funny because at eight years old I
knew I wanted to be a lawyerReally.
Like I was very decisive backthen.
My grandma would always say,like I would always say Nope,
I'm going to be a lawyer, I'mgoing to be a lawyer, I'm
definitely going to be a lawyer,don't?
I think it's because I had thisnatural knack for talking and,
you know, debating, and so Ifelt like that would be a good
career choice.
Yeah, but being a lawyer wasalways, always something I
(18:04):
wanted to do and be.
I remember my grandma seeingNicole Sternum one day, and we
were at Hamelson, I mean PagetPharmacy, and she was like my
granddaughter wants to be alawyer, take her under your wing
, be her mentor.
And we still have arelationship to today.
Deshay Caines (18:20):
That's really cool, yeah, and.
DeVika Bourne (18:21):
I, even though I didn't pursue the law root, but
you know, this was something Iknew I wanted to be from a very
long time.
Deshay Caines (18:26):
Yeah, and did you play?
I know you said you used to runwhen you were younger, but what
other extracurriculars were youinvolved in?
DeVika Bourne (18:33):
So running was the main thing.
It's funny to say I don'tremember doing a whole lot as a
young person from a sportsperspective.
I did a little bit of dance butdidn't stay in that.
But as a result my girls are ineverything, so it's like I
didn't do it all, but I want youto do it.
(18:53):
Yeah, so I can't.
I was, you know, my mom was, itwas just her in the household,
so she worked a lot and so youknow, from a from a parent
support perspective, she wasn'table to take me around to all of
the activities that I needed todo and things like that.
But you know that that didn'treally stop me exploring other
things.
Deshay Caines (19:13):
So how would you say, knowing that now about your
mom and you know yourrelationship that way, how would
you say that that's kind ofmolded you into the leader and
mom that you are today?
DeVika Bourne (19:22):
Yeah, so I've definitely taken on the taken
the approach that I really wantmy girls to have exposure to as
much as possible at an early age.
I recognize that they will dropthings, they will say I hate
this, I don't want to do itanymore.
But I do think the exposure iskey because it helps them to
make a decision, find somethingthey love.
(19:43):
I you know I laugh now and sayif I had gotten to a sport
hardcore when I was young,physical exercise wouldn't be
such a big deal anymore at thisage, right.
Deshay Caines (19:50):
I don't think that's the case, but I was.
Oh, you are looking at.
DeVika Bourne (19:55):
But I always say, you know maybe.
So now I really try to exposethem to as much, to as much as
possible, just in hopes that,you know, something finally
sticks.
I mean, dance has stuck forthem.
They absolutely love to dance,but, you know, in hopes that
this will carry them through alittle bit further as well.
Deshay Caines (20:11):
Yeah, so you have this job and I talk about and I
obviously interview a lot ofwomen with big jobs, right, and
we always it always comes tothis question around work and
family and husband and balanceand all of those types of things
.
How do you manage to juggle allof that?
DeVika Bourne (20:29):
Yeah, so the B word is a bad word, Because
balance basically just doesn'texist for me.
If something's getting done,something else isn't Juggling.
I mean, prioritization isextremely key for me.
At one point in time somethinghas to take priority, At another
point in time something doesn't.
(20:50):
I have a lot of help, a bigsupport system, I will say,
which I'm extremely thankful for.
So that is a huge help in mayhelp me to achieve everything,
because I think it's the momcomponent that really tips it
over the edge right.
Going to work and getting itall done is fine, I can get that
, I can handle that.
But when you add in, you know,two daughters trying to do their
(21:13):
schedule, getting it all done,come home, be a mom, be a wife,
still be an employee, it can getvery overwhelming.
So I just have to reallysometimes just sit back and say
what needs my priority now,right?
I do have a rule that I don'tlook at my emails before I leave
the house, because I rememberone person, the lady I work with
(21:33):
.
She was like don't do that,because you're going to be in
work mode before you even leaveand then you can't give your
children the attention they needbefore you throw off to school.
You're already, like you know,in a boardroom and not with them
.
And so I do have that rulewhere no reading emails before
you leave the house.
You can check them as soon asthey get out of the car.
You can be like okay in traffic, but not before I am out of
(21:57):
their sight.
And even when I'm trying tolike when I get home and there's
things I need to still do, Itry my best to kind of put them
to bed first and then go back on.
So I am really strict that onduring the week about it's time
for bed.
Like you know, you guys have togo, even if you're just in your
room laying down, notnecessarily sleep, but that
gives me cars all the time forme to be able to now refocus and
get other things that I may nothave gotten done.
Deshay Caines (22:20):
And then how do you still have date night with
the hubby and that type ofbalance too?
DeVika Bourne (22:24):
Yeah, and he has a very demanding job too, right,
so this is a tricky one.
So we've tried a few thingslike let's commit to a series
that we watch every single weekon that day, right, and we can
do that.
Or let's talk, but we struggle.
I mean, if I'm being honest,that's a hard one.
I mean during the week, youknow he's still working until 11
(22:48):
o'clock at night.
You know it could be me that'sdoing that, and so, luckily, we
do have a really strongrelationship.
We talk often, you know.
Deshay Caines (22:55):
We laugh a lot, he is.
DeVika Bourne (22:58):
We laugh a lot, but that one, that one, is hard,
especially when you throw anyschedules of the children and
everything else, and trying tofind a night where it actually
works, you know, finding ababysitter, all of that.
Yeah, that's a.
That's one we're still tryingto perfect.
Deshay Caines (23:14):
Yeah, but I feel like you know both of you know
that and still trying to worktogether on that is helpful,
right?
Because, sometimes someone elseis pushing it more than the
other, and I guess the balancethere is that both of you know
that something is you're stillworking on and you know, even if
it means you watch the seriesand fall asleep together,
Exactly, exactly.
DeVika Bourne (23:34):
And I mean, you know it can be just like now
we're trying to make sure thatwe eat dinner together with the
girls, so that you know we'retalking, you know we're having
that conversation all four of usreally.
You know just shooting thebreeze right, just saying how
your day was just and that istime right, and so it's all of
those little things.
I remember at one point we werelike so on the go, it's like
get your food, you know,nobody's, somebody's on the
(23:56):
couch, somebody's at thebreakfast table, like it now is
like no, let's carve this timeout and really sit down and take
30 minutes to enjoy each other.
Deshay Caines (24:04):
Is it difficult to switch off from, like you
know, big boss mode to mommy andwife mode when you get home,
like I know I don't have that,but like if I've had a really
crappy day at work, like I needa minute?
You know to get myself together.
Like how do you do that?
I mean, I mean I don't have towalk through the door, I've had
a crap day right and it's justlike mommy, mommy, mommy, like
how do you do that?
DeVika Bourne (24:26):
Honestly.
I mean what I do do now is I goin my room for like at least 20
minutes.
I'll learn with the airconditioning just blast and then
just lay there right and just,whether it be looking on my
phone or looking at TV or doingabsolutely nothing.
I just need 20 minutes, right,and then usually Mark will be
coming home and he will be he.
(24:47):
He was going, but at least justcarve out that little bit of
time is not a lot, but it givesme that minute.
I remember living in St David'sused to, because we used to
live in St David's before, sothat drive used to be almost
like yes, it was a decompressionright.
But now we're in Devonshire, soyou're him, so everything
happened so fast.
But usually I try to just goaway for, like you know, 15, 20
(25:10):
minutes.
Just give me a second,especially if it's been a rough
day.
Deshay Caines (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, those rough days are gotta be tough
you know?
DeVika Bourne (25:16):
Yeah, they are.
Deshay Caines (25:17):
Yeah, and people don't really understand that
weight of a leader of certainthings making decisions, budgets
, all that type of stuff Gotpeople's lives in your hand
right, absolutely exactly.
So when you're in that, in thatprocess of it, like how do you
kind of make those decisions asa leader, when knowing you've
got someone's life in your handBecause you talk about being an
(25:37):
intimate leader and knowing yourteam and things like that and
when you have to make decisionsthat could affect the person
that you know's livelihood, likehow does that, how do you feel,
how do you navigate that?
DeVika Bourne (25:47):
Yeah, this is interesting because I sometimes,
when I'm in this kind ofsituations, I say would it be
easier to have kept that kind ofblock up where you don't know
so much and you just kind ofrobotically just do everything?
But no, because I still thinkit's important to build those
relationships with your team.
(26:08):
You know, I try to be as fairand as diplomatic as possible
and what I always say is that alot of things that we do as
leaders is confidential, right.
I think people don't find out.
But I always say that ifsomething were to happen, if
there were some type of cyberattack and everything was
exposed, I would be able tostand on every decision I've
(26:28):
made if everything came to lightright and so, with fairness,
with you know, thoughts, withconcern, all of the decisions
that I've made, I've done tomaking sure that I keep
everybody kind of in view asbest as I can, because you can't
do it for everybody.
Deshay Caines (26:45):
That's not possible.
So, knowing all of that nowright, what do you think is
something people misunderstandabout you?
DeVika Bourne (26:52):
I think there's a guard up to some degree because
, especially in the office thatyou need to have, because
there's certain conversationsyou can't have, there's certain
information that you know thatnobody else knows right, and so
it's difficult to navigate thatsubstance sometimes other than
just kind of shutting down andbeing a little bit more yeah,
(27:16):
you know recluse.
Deshay Caines (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
DeVika Bourne (27:19):
And I think I carry that sometimes outside of
work right, which maybe I canshut it off.
I do keep very.
I have a very small circle.
But that's just me.
I'm a creature of habit.
I like to, I like my samefriends, I like that same group,
I like to be able to just havethat network that I can depend
on and trust and that works forme.
Deshay Caines (27:38):
Yeah, but I think as we get older as well, to
like the having that many, a lotof friends isn't always the
right thing.
You know like sometimes thepeople that you think of your
friends.
You find out that they're not.
You get bitten, yes, and thenyou know, feel some type of way
about it.
DeVika Bourne (27:55):
So I get.
Deshay Caines (27:56):
I get having less of those core people yeah, for
sure.
And so how often do you likelean on those guys when it comes
to like anything?
DeVika Bourne (28:03):
Yeah.
So I always get concerned thatI'm being too heavy, right.
So I don't want to be the onewho's always just filled with
like just something right, but Ido always have something going
on From a work perspective.
I keep that very, very separate, because you kind of need to,
especially in being such a smallcommunity.
(28:25):
So you know, I certain things Ijust can't talk about right,
but personal things I have my,my core friends that I can lean
on.
You know I've had some reallytouchy things that have occurred
in my life that I've always hadthat support there really
available.
We don't talk all the timebecause we all have lives and
we're all busy, but I alwaysknew that, you know, should
(28:45):
something go down.
They're there they got your back.
You're right, it does right,yeah.
Deshay Caines (28:50):
So when you think about you know your entire
career, you look at the you knowgamut of things that you've
done.
All of that, like what do youlook?
You can look back and say youknow what.
This is the why, this is my,why this is my motivation to
keep going.
You know, I'm sure there's morethings in your future that you
want to do, especiallyprofessionally, as a mom and as
a wife, but why do you?
What motivates you to keepgoing?
DeVika Bourne (29:12):
Well, now, definitely having my daughters,
that is a huge motivation.
They are a huge motivation forme to, to want to keep going.
I mean, my work in the DNIspace is a lot to do with that
right, just trying to shape thefuture, whereas they have a
better chance at, you know,growth, success, kind of
exposure, all of those thingsand I speak about that a lot at
(29:34):
work.
You know, having two daughters,female and black, you know
these are definitely barriersthat they will have to overcome
as they, you know, go through.
So now, I think, having havingmy daughters being in a, in a,
coming from a single parenthousehold, it was also very
important to me to try to buildsomething for myself that you
(29:55):
know resembled a lot morestability for myself, my family
and just, you know, beingprepared to be to get old right,
like you know, ready to to tojust, you know, not have to
depend on anyone, my children,all of that.
So there's a really huge kindof motivations for me, as I, you
(30:15):
know, work hard on what I'mdoing it for and my, my heart
and my life.
Deshay Caines (30:19):
Yeah, so you said something just now around when
you kind of look into crap, Ijust lost what I was saying.
Uh, when you said, said itaround going back and breaking
glass ceilings and making surefor your daughters that you know
they don't have to come intothe same environment that you
had have come through.
(30:39):
Like, what are some of thethings as a leader that you're
doing in your environment toensure that you know it's not
the same?
Things are not having to bedone every time?
You know there's a new womanthat comes into leadership, a
black woman, a Romanian womanthat comes into leadership,
she's not having to go through,quote unquote, break the same
glass ceiling that you've had tobreak.
Um, what are some of thosethings that you're ensuring.
DeVika Bourne (31:01):
So I mean, now I think we're at a stage where
having that there's toughconversations is what's helping
to break some of those ceilingsRight.
So I think, if I'm being reallyhonest, we have a long way to
go.
Yeah, um, and so just being ata stage to be able to have those
conversations, you know thatthat whole, you know you have a
seat at the table.
That's not just a meme.
(31:21):
Yeah, this is serious.
When you do have a seat at thetable, you need to make sure
that the message that you'resaying is heard and understood
so that it translates intoaction when you leave that table
Right.
And so for me, it's really,really important that you know
the journey of us is understoodright, and and and why so much
of it has to change and becomemore equitable, more fair.
(31:44):
You know a lot, not necessarilyeasy, because I don't expect
anything to be given, but just,you know, balanced, right.
That's a place where I can usebalance, yeah you're right,
absolutely.
Deshay Caines (31:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
And I mean, why do you thinkwe're having such a hard time?
I mean, the needle's movingright, but it's not moving in a
rapid way.
Why do you think industry Ithink it's across the board, not
just, you know, the insuranceand reinsurance industry but why
do you think we're having this?
Like we just feel like we'regetting to the door and just you
(32:16):
know, going back, back andforth, back and forth.
Why do you think that is?
DeVika Bourne (32:19):
I think it's too failed.
I think not everybody's reallycomfortable with the topic.
I think people feel like theyneed to do something around it
not necessarily be comfortablewith it and proactively want to
see change.
Right, because I said it in ameeting the other day, I think
it's a little disingenuous whenyou're reactive as a Britannian,
as a DNI issues rather thanbeing proactive, right?
(32:39):
So you need to be proactivelyseeking out opportunities to
make some change there.
And then you know, as a leaderand I say this too we kind of
need to get out of our way,right?
So what that means is that wehave to step back and say I need
to give someone else the toolsthey need in order to be able to
take my role when I'm not readyto be here anymore, right.
(33:02):
I also need to understand thatif I really want to effect
change, if I really want to seethe needle move, that
understanding that a lot ofdemographics didn't have
exposure to that experience thatmay mean that, as a leader, I
am going to have to take theperson that has two years
experience rather than fiveyears experience, and help to
build them up a little bit, andthat's the sacrifice we're going
to need to make.
(33:22):
We really really want to seechange, and until we really sit
back and say this is what I'mgoing to need to do and this is
my responsibility if I want toreally see something different,
I think we're going to keepknocking on their doors and not
being able to open them.
Deshay Caines (33:35):
Yeah, so I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Where I get nervous is we'recreating these environment,
calling them career changers andall that type of stuff.
Right, we're welcoming peoplein and not everyone has the
mindset that you do with takingthe time to then build them up
to where they have to go.
And then we're setting people upessentially for failure.
(33:56):
And I said this on a differentpanel and I was essentially like
, if you're not in a position inyour environment to welcome
these people in and train themadequately, you're better off
not hiring them, right.
But in saying that, with whatyou just said just now, it's
kind of twofold, because it'slike we don't want people to not
be in the environment.
(34:17):
So how do we get companies andorganizations to be like you
know what?
We're going to welcome them in,but we're also going to
dedicate the time and resourcesto train them up adequately.
DeVika Bourne (34:26):
Yeah, so leaders need to be held to a standard.
It needs to be tied to performit.
That's part of your performance, right?
That is what you need to do.
You can't bring someone in thedoor and just drop them there
and think, oh, I'll figure itout.
I mean, then you're not doingyour job and you need to be tied
to that.
Right.
You need to be held to makingsure that you're training people
(34:48):
up, that you're giving them theopportunity, that you're giving
them the exposure, and ifyou're not, then you're not
doing what you've been hired todo, right, and so that makes
people feel uncomfortablebecause nobody wants to be tied
to that.
But ultimately, what are youdoing If you're hiring someone
and bringing them in the doorand just leaving them they're
knowing that they need someassistance and then, in a year,
(35:08):
complaining that they aren'tdoing a good job.
What have you done?
Support reflection on you as aleader.
It's a poor reflection when youas a leader, and and and I think
Us other leaders need to alsoget comfortable with speaking up
when they see that happening.
Right, because we also have aresponsibility, not just to our
teams, yeah, but to all teamsand the company, to say, hey,
(35:30):
what's going on with that person?
Like why are they not Thriving?
Why are we not seeing more fromthem?
Is there a performance issue?
Leader to leader you can accessquestions, right, and and kind
of you just like holding yourfriend accountable.
Like you don't like a boyfriend.
Why can't you say something toso?
Why can't you say something toall about?
Do issues leading and, and, and?
What lack of assistanceproviding to that employee.
(35:52):
That's just brought in.
Deshay Caines (35:53):
So Do you feel like there's a lot of resistance
and More so with men when youdo things like that within women
, or is it just blanket acrossthe board?
DeVika Bourne (36:02):
I'm thankful that I work at a company where I
don't see that Right.
So I think you know that'sthat's.
One fantastic thing about mycompany is that we I don't have
I've now I haven't experiencedit, but I can clear, I can see
that that would probably be anissue in other Spaces and it
could create a little bit ofintimidation as well, like not
wanting to to really call peopleout and yeah.
Deshay Caines (36:30):
So what does like success look like for you
ultimately?
Right, like I know you said,you've kind of ascended into
this role like a little bitQuicker than you expected to
initially.
But what is what is definingsuccess in this role as a leader
of your team?
DeVika Bourne (36:46):
I think success for me in this role as a leader
would be that I have Adequatelygiven Opportunity to my team
members, that they felt asthough they can thrive, that
they they worked for a team thatwas healthy, that was
appreciative, that's.
You know they, they were a partof change.
(37:07):
Right, we're change wasn'tnecessarily dictated because we
have a lot of change going whenI think we're a while in general
.
Right, but people want to feelpart of that and I think that
helps with our acceptance.
So know that you know they werebrought along that journey with
us, that their feedback, youknow, mattered.
If my team members took backand said that about me, I would
feel like, yes, I, that'sexactly what I wanted to achieve
(37:28):
and that would look likesuccess for me, absolutely.
Deshay Caines (37:30):
Yeah.
So I guess it's so crazybecause the time goes by so
quickly.
We're wrapping up a little bit,but I mean, when you look at
you, your Inspiration and wetalked about your why and your
motivating factors, like whatwould you go back and tell you
know, beginning of her careerDeveka, what you know now, or
even other another woman that'sjust starting out her career,
(37:52):
what would you tell her with allof the knowledge you've kind of
have now?
DeVika Bourne (37:55):
Yeah, a couple of things.
Take risk early, right.
Try things out like if youdon't like it, then move on to
something else.
But take those risks and reallydefine what you want to do
because, look, this is prettyrest of your life, right.
Define that by.
By trying things out early,early You're gonna get to a
stage where risk is too risky.
Um, and I think you know Onething that I reflect on a lot is
(38:20):
the good will that I've paidinto my organization early.
When I call it like at the verybeginning right, because I think
as we get to a certain stage inour careers where we come
mothers, we were stretched alittle bit and so because your
organization knows you, you'vebuilt that reputation.
You know your solid no one'sgonna question kind of you know,
your ability to get things doneor to take on additional tasks.
(38:42):
Building up that good willright from the very beginning
really will pay off in dividendsbecause you will, you could
potentially get to a stage whereyou know you're juggling a lot
and so being able to do as muchas you did when you were fresh
in the door, right out of youknow, off of an accounting
designation, versus ten yearslater where you now may have
(39:03):
children and and differentthings like that.
That will pay off for yousignificantly.
Right, build that reputationand and make sure that people
know you, understand you.
Deshay Caines (39:12):
That's really really respect that word.
Work, product, right.
You're producing, absolutelyyeah, all right.
And then, finally, everyquestion acts, every guest
before they leave the couch.
When you're no longer on thisplanet and you're no longer with
, you know the people that youlove and you know not gonna work
there's a long time from now,but what is something that you
want to be remembered for?
When someone says your name,you want them to say acts that.
DeVika Bourne (39:35):
I had a lot of integrity, that I was a joy to
be around, that I wastrustworthy.
You know I kept my word honest,that I was.
I showed up, you know, and Iprovided support when I, when I,
when they needed it the most,and I made them feel good.
Right, because that's a feat.
You may not see me, but youwould never forget what I did
(39:57):
for you inside and how I madeyou feel so.
Deshay Caines (40:01):
Well, that's it.
DeVika Bourne (40:10):
I don't know what it is, what this culture?
You know calm yeah yeah, yeah,thank you so much, all right,
guys, thanks so much forspending some time with me today
.
Deshay Caines (40:22):
We had the amazing DeVica born on.
She is the senior vicepresident of head of and head of
underwriting operations atPartnery.
We're really grateful for hersharing her story and her
experiences, her leadershipstyle and everything she brings
to the table with us today.
As always, make sure you headover to the website hustle her
podcast, calm, sign up to becomea VIP member.
You can see DeVica's Bio onthere.
(40:44):
You can also see someadditional of the behind the
scenes that we have, as well aslike the blogs, and we can do
some additional chit chattingthere.
As always, thank you to ouramazing sponsors, brown and Co,
as well as 59 front.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with me today and with
DeVica today, and thank you forwatching hustle her podcast.
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