October 12, 2025 • 44 mins
What if the bravest thing you can say is, “I became a psychologist to save myself”? That line from Dr. Jana Otterbridge sets the tone for a conversation that moves with heart and precision, from adoption and identity to trauma, triggers, and the radical act of finding a therapist who truly fits. We don’t stay on the surface. We talk about the unnamed questions adoptees carry, the long tail of psychological injury, and how healing starts when we stop calling our wounds a personality and start building new responses with care.
We also zoom out to the systems shaping us. Jana shares how UK training sharpened her voice when leadership curricula erased Black examples, and why representation isn’t a buzzword, it’s a map. We get honest about the multigenerational workplace: Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z colliding over “work ethic” and mental health. Instead of the tired “work-life balance” script, Jana offers a practical capacity framework, adjustable daily “bubbles” that match energy to commitments without guilt. It’s a mindset shift leaders can operationalize and individuals can practice right now.
Threaded through it all is purpose. Jana describes peace as the sign she’s on path, able to teach in a boardroom at noon and mentor on a street corner by dusk. She speaks to her younger self with tenderness, “you’re safe, you’re free”, and imagines a next chapter that includes anonymous giving and wider impact. If you care about mental health, organizational culture, representation, or simply living with more truth and less noise, this one will stay with you.
If this conversation moved you, share it with a friend, subscribe for more honest stories, and leave a review to help others find the show. What capacity are you honoring today?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
It's time for Hustle Her Podcast.
I'm your host, Deshay Keynes.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders who we
are today.
If you're an enterprising woman,determined to succeed, and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love, and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you, girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast.
As always, thank you forspending some time for me here
today.
Big shout out to our sponsors,59 Front, Brown and Company, as
well as Scootamart.
(00:43):
Make sure you head over to thewebsite, desheycanes.com, to
check all of our previousepisodes and give me some
feedback.
Let me know what you think aboutit.
Make sure you're liking andsubscribing to the YouTube
channel so you can stay up todate with all the content that
we have there.
Super excited about my guesttoday.
And I know I say this all thetime.
But we both recently spoke atDisrupt HR here in Bermuda, and
she opened up, she was our firstspeaker, and she absolutely
(01:04):
killed it.
Not gonna lie, put me, I waslike, I don't know how I can
follow that.
But I knew in that moment thatshe had to be on the podcast.
And so I'm really excited tohave the CEO of May Vera here
with me today, Dr.
Jenna Audibret.
Jenna girl, how are you doing?
Thank you.
I'm good, I'm good.
I'm loving this yellow.
So look, breath of fresh air.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
You know, I thought I'll spice it up a little bit.
Normally I'm in the dark colors.
I said, not today.
I'm gonna keep it bright,sunshine and all that.
Yes.
And I'm in a good space, so whynot bring a little sunshine?
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
I'm really excited to have you here.
Let's start off with some rapidfires and just get my listeners
to know you a little bit better,and then we'll jump right in.
Cool?
All right, so what's somethingthat you don't leave your house
without?
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
So I have this backpack that I never leave
without because it has my laptopin it, pencil crayons, markers,
highlighters.
I feel like I could put on aworkshop anywhere I get.
Exactly.
Everything is ready.
If I don't have it, I'm in apanic.
Like, oh, I have to run back.
Yeah, it doesn't matter whattime.
I have to go back and get it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
I'm here for it.
I can understand.
All right, coffee, tea.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Ooh.
Right now it's coffee, but thatcan always change in like six
months and I'll just be on tea.
But right now it's coffee daily.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
So you're not you're not a matcha girl?
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
You know, if I'm honest, I don't even think I've
ever had matcha as much aseveryone has talked about it, so
I probably need to get that onmy list of things.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I'll give you my I'll give you my matcha
breakdown and you can try it outthere.
Don't try it by itself.
You will be not be a fan.
You gotta get a little extrastuff in it.
Okay.
But we'll go from one.
All right, what's something yourclosest friends would say about
you?
If you had to choose one word,what would they say about you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Oh.
I two words came to mind.
Oh my goodness.
I'm gonna say opinionated andstrong.
But yeah, I would say she's veryopinionated and strong.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
They know that they're getting honesty from
you, right?
I'm gonna say it.
There you go.
All right, what's one quote orphrase that keeps you grounded?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
Ooh, that keeps me grounded.
Um, I tend to say, baby girl,you are worth it.
Don't play, don't sleep onyourself.
That's kind of something that'sa part of my affirmations.
Um, I'm sure it's probably morethat I go by, but I definitely
call myself baby girl when Ilook in the mirror, like I know.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Sometimes, let me tell you, the music helps out
too.
Like, you know, you know, I Irun through a few options, but
I'm there with you on that one.
All right, what's on yournightstand right now?
SPEAKER_00 (03:41):
Oh, what's there apart from the lamp?
Um, honestly, probably some mailthat I have to open up that I've
rested.
unknown (03:51):
Something.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah.
And what would you say uh wasyour childhood dream job?
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Oh, I wanted to be a pilot.
Pilot?
That I wanted to be an airlinepilot.
You could not tell me anythingabout that.
That was my dream.
Okay, all right.
It changed, obviously, but Ialways knew I was going to fly
planes around the world.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
And what's one thing people might, if they found out
about you, would surprise them?
A hidden talent or somethinglike that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
Oh a hidden talent or something.
Oh, got me thinking.
Okay, what's the one thing?
I used to do show jumping, but Ithink a lot of people knew that
about me.
I used to be an equestriangrowing up.
I didn't I didn't know that, sothere we go.
That was Yeah, that was that waslife growing up at the horse
(04:39):
stable.
But a lot of people don't knowthat.
Okay, maybe I don't know if it'sstill it's not currently a
talent, but I used to do that.
Yeah, once upon a time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Okay, cool.
All right, and then finally, andI'm like keeping my fingers
crossed, right?
It's the time of year that we'rein.
What is your cut match team orwho is your cut match team?
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Oh, I'm not gonna disappoint you, don't worry.
I'm for St.
George's.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
Um for two, oh for three.
What is happening?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Definitely for St.
George's, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Proudest fans with such a losing record.
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, you have to stand by them, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
That's all right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
They develop it, the developing, the gathering there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
Developing.
I love it.
This is funny.
This is funny.
All right, let's take it back tothe beginning and how you got
these awful, you know, rude.
But yeah, um, let's take it backto the beginning.
So tell me about Jana as achild.
Like, what were you into otherthan being an equestrian?
But like, what were your thingsthat you liked, didn't like?
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
So, me as a child, let's think.
Hmm, is it ballet?
I danced.
I don't know.
I think I was probably similarto how I am now, it's probably a
little bit to myself, maybe.
I grew up in youth group andchurch and things like that.
That was, I think, a part of mylife.
Um, yeah, dancing, horse stable,that was pretty much me.
(06:08):
I was talking to someone theother day and I realized I
wasn't a neighborhood child.
You know how children played inthe neighborhood.
I probably wasn't that childbecause my parents had me
cracking with like activitiesand different things.
I can probably remember thetimes that I was just in a
neighborhood.
Now I don't know where thatlands or what that means in
adulthood.
Now that I'm a psychologist, I'mlike, should I remember?
(06:31):
But um, but yeah, so that wasthat was kind of what I was
doing for for the most part,even when I was riding, I
represented Premier Island andshow jumping a little bit, you
know, when I was younger, butthat's kind of me, I think, more
like activity-based.
Um, but yeah, to myself, I hadmy friends, like my little
friends, tackle, uh growing up,and that was kind of my journey.
(06:57):
Um, school.
So I went primary school.
I was at Francis Patton, then Iwent to Clearwater for a bit,
and then I went to threedifferent home schools.
It's a whole journey in itself.
Yeah.
And then I ended up graduatingmy GED.
So I went to care and I had myGED.
It's just been figuring outlife, I think, ever since that
(07:17):
time.
Uh what else?
I went to Bermuda College.
So after my GED, I went toBermuda College for a semester.
And then I got into university.
Then I went to Tennessee StateUniversity.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
I was in Alabama.
So South, dirty South, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Being at an HBCU, I am so happy that I went and I
was in the South.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
I I tell people all the time,and I know going to HBCUs are
like a thing now, and theyweren't really like for a while,
but that is single-handedly theonly time in my life I have been
around black excellence for fouryears.
Like, I mean, there is it is anunmatched experience, and I
recommend it to everyone to go,even if it's just for a short
(08:02):
period of time, whatever it is,like your network starts there,
and it like it's the level, it'sjust everyone is here.
You know what I mean?
And I just think it's such anawesome experience.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I mean, I think my professorsreally did shape my experience.
There was a lecturer that Iheard, uh, his name was Jeff
Minzi, and his story was soinspirational.
I still stand by it.
And anyway, fast forward, hesaid he had a teacher that
didn't believe in him, and hewanted to make sure that he had
his doctorate degree by 30.
(08:31):
And he had his doctorate degreeby 30.
And I remember him telling usthat story in my first semester.
And I was like, I'm gonna havemy doctorate degree in
psychology by 30.
You know, just those types ofstories, and I think how much
they poured into us and theywere able to share.
And these are people that therepresentation, right?
That looked like you, that hadreal stories that related to
(08:52):
yours.
Um, so that was so important,and then I did.
I ended up getting my degree by30.
So, you know, those thingsreally do.
It matters.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
It it matters because you saw someone who
looked like you, who set a goal,who did it, and it was instantly
achievable for you, right?
And that's the key aroundrepresentation that people don't
always get.
Like if you can't see, youyou're not gonna know that this
is attainable for you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Absolutely.
And because I starteduniversity, I had my GED, and
then I think what is it, SATs, GR E, or anyway, whatever it was,
I just did enough to get by.
That was that was my story.
And so when I starteduniversity, I was actually
behind everyone else.
So I was in all of the, I wouldsay more learning support
classes, but I didn't know that,right?
(09:36):
So I'm walking through thecampus one day, and one of my
friends are like, Oh yeah.
Anyway, she pointed out thelittle the learning center, and
I was like, that's where all myclasses are.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
But I didn't say anything, I waslike, wait, I girl, I went back,
I was like, wait, I am in allthe development classes.
I've never been in a developmentclass because I sat I did my GED
(09:58):
one time, like I didn't have youknow these challenges, but
anyway, because of my schoolersand everything, all of it coming
together.
I only had to know that onetime.
I graduated on time witheveryone else.
I still play, like I still didall the things, right?
But I just picked up my out,picked up the number of credits
that I was doing and just kindof went for it.
So once it came to my overners,I was like, you were like, oh
(10:22):
no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
We're not gonna be able to do that.
I didn't know I was behind.
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
I thought I was on time of everybody out, girl.
But I just like, oh no,absolutely not.
It's gonna fix that one and keepit moving, push to work.
But yeah, that's a little bit ofI guess my academic journey.
I got it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
So you say you pledged.
What did you pledge?
What did you pledge?
Excuse me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
I mean, there's only one thing that I think you know
really is missing point.
But yeah, so uh I hope we're notgonna have another difference of
opinion here, Jenna.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
But you know, let's but I'm definitely a Delta.
Okay, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
I'm from a family of AKAs, but that's I I yeah, and
that's you know, things happenin life.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
But yeah, sit there to be as my sister who's naked.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
That is so funny, but yeah, I mean it's just cool
memories and experiences, right?
And I mean, on campus for us, atleast with within my year, we
all got along.
Like it was a beautifulexperience, you know.
It was in fun benter, butnothing measure and everybody
was on the yard.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Yeah, on the yard, exactly.
And I didn't pledge because atmy school, Oakwood didn't have I
think it's a whole nothersituation.
But um, you know, uh privateeventist schools, they don't
allow for sororities andfraternities and stuff.
I didn't have that experience.
So that is one experience that Igenuinely miss from that.
But we all went over to theother schools, and you know,
especially when people, youknow, do all that.
(11:46):
That's unmatched as well.
That's an experience I thinkeveryone should also have a part
of.
But so at Disrupt HR, um, therewere two people in the room when
you were talking and you weredoing your speech who were like
beaming with pride, yourparents, right?
Yes.
I mean, oh my god, you wouldhave thought it was like light
radiating from behind them whenthey were when you were
speaking, they were so happythey were recording all the
(12:08):
things, right?
Like, how would you say yourparents shaped who you are and
all your core values?
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Yeah, that's my heart.
Yes, and ooh, so you'll get mewhen we start to talk about
them.
That's for sure.
So I love my parents.
Um, I guess everybody I'm sureloves their parents, but I
really love my parents.
Um, so yeah, they've been myrock, I would say, you know,
throughout life.
So I am technically the abundantchild, right?
(12:37):
So um I, you know, adopted as achild, and yeah, but those are
my parents.
Like there's no ifs ands butsabout it.
They are everything, you know,to me.
And especially even in lateryears now is one being growing
up, but being an adult and beingable to have conversations with
(12:59):
my parents, especially overthese last few years as they're
getting older.
I don't, I feel even moreconnected to them than ever.
Like it's really special becauseit's an adult relationship, like
a you know, adult parent-childrelationship, but it's
beautiful.
And my heart, when it comes tohow they pour into me, like I
said, I'm opinionated andstrong, and I've been that way
(13:22):
since forever.
So, but like her, she goesagain, like it's they just they
just know this about me, butyeah, so yeah, they were there
supporting me, and that wasreally special for me.
Um, because they've they'vealways shined, like both of them
throughout life, you know, allof my activities, all of my
(13:43):
recitals, everything, they haveboth absolutely been there for
me, and love you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
No, they're they're amazing.
Um, and I your mom worked withmy mom at Cedar Bridge for a
while.
So I think that's how Iinitially met your mom.
Yeah, for for a while.
They were they were there andthey talked to each other when
we read disrupt HR.
But like, how was it growing upuh being adopted?
Like, did you feel that?
Did you know?
Like, how was that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
Yeah, I always knew.
Um, I definitely always knewthere was there wasn't a secret,
it wasn't hidden from me.
So I remember as early as Icould remember, right, that this
was the case.
My parents definitely sat medown, they talked to me about
it.
Um, so actually I'm an adoptionresearcher.
So my thesis was on adoption,right?
So it was something that wasreally important to me and to my
(14:31):
journey.
Because as much as I'm supportedand loved, there's always still
that unname piece, right?
It doesn't, it doesn't changethat that is something that
exists.
Of like, well, who is it?
What is it?
Um, my story goes on.
Exactly, exactly.
So for me, um, my family was inBermuda.
(14:52):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was from I was adoptedfrom overseas.
Um, but yeah, absolutely, youknow, there's still that
unknown, and they are knowingthat okay, my family's not
biological family, it's not inBermuda and things like that.
But so it definitely shaped me.
There's there's no doubt aboutit that it absolutely shaped how
I see the world, how Iunderstood things.
(15:14):
Um, I think that's the also thereason why I went into it as a
researcher, right?
And things where, you know,you're not so sure who you're
connected to, you don't lookexactly like anyone.
You know, there's a there are anumber of different layers, you
know, to that experience that100% shape me as an adult.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
Were there some like identity, and I don't want to
say crisis, but in that I mightnot be phrasing that correctly.
So feel free to uh you knowcorrect me there.
But did you have any of thatwhen it came to not particularly
having anyone that looked likeyou?
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
So I I guess I'm gonna say yes.
Only on as I reflect on yourquestion, I think the answer to
that would be yes.
Do I think that it really showedup maybe as a crisis?
Maybe not, you know.
Um, I think I was positivelypoured in poured into um as much
(16:10):
as possible.
I never felt that, you know.
Yeah.
So I think the answer to that isyes, because there's the
underlying stuff that comes withthat, right?
There's so much that's happeningin the subconscious that you
really are not aware of that isshaping you.
Um, but it definitely did shapeme.
There was a part of me that'sdefinitely a bit of an outsider,
(16:34):
right?
Even if it wasn't direct, it wasa little bit more indirect.
Um, and so absolutely,absolutely shaped how I how I
see and understand the world,among other experiences too,
right?
So that wouldn't be the soleexperience that shaped me.
It would be other livedexperiences that all came
together that helped to kind ofform my identity and how I see
(16:55):
and understand the world.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
So yeah, for sure.
And I guess in your current workthat you do and being in a psych
being psychologically safe andor emotionally safe in certain,
I guess, spaces, like is there amoment in your childhood that
you kind of look back on now andyou're like, that's where I
first became invested in thisspace, but you really just
didn't know what it was calledthen.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Yeah, so I I tell people all the time, I well now
I know clearly.
I am a psychologist, I became apsychologist to save me.
It really had absolutely nothingto do with anyone else.
So even through my livedexperience growing up, um, you
know, as a child, as a teenager,you know, I had other, I'm
(17:34):
gonna, I'm gonna use it as I'mgonna use the word, use the word
traumas, um, probably a littlebit more loosely than I need to,
but you know, I had differentexperiences that shape me.
So I experienced, you know,bodily injury from somebody
that, you know, should not have,you know, been in that position
to to kind of bring me thatharm, right?
(17:56):
And so that was a bit ongoing aswell throughout my life.
And so that shaped me.
So not feeling, you know, safeor protected by somebody that I
think very, you know, rightly soshould have been safe and a
place to protect me, right?
So I had that experience aswell.
And so that's the bodily injuryside, but it was also connected
(18:18):
that same experience to thepsychological injury, right?
Um usually the more long-lastingone.
Absolutely, absolutely, right?
Like I have these scars to showfor it, but you know, the
psychological side of it, whichwas uh, you know, lasted so much
longer.
Um, and I think that's a part ofmy story that I know people
don't know because I don't talkabout it, which I think is why
(18:40):
like caught me off guard alittle bit.
Because sometimes you got tothat point where it's like, you
know what, maybe it's okay totell your story, right?
Um, and so maybe that I think isprobably what was coming up for
me.
Yeah, weirdly so.
I don't know why now would bethe time, but for whatever
reasons, you're bringing it outof it.
And I promise you I had no ideawhat it is.
Exactly.
But I think maybe sometimes it'sjust timing, yeah, right?
(19:03):
And maybe, and maybe it's okaybecause I think for me, as much
as I don't talk about it, thereare people that definitely move,
you know what I mean, who areclose to me.
But maybe my story, a part of mylife's journey is that my story
can be healing to somebody else.
And so maybe that's why it'scoming up because I'm excited
with not what I was planning totalk about.
(19:24):
Sorry.
No, no, no, it's fine.
It's fine.
I think it's probably biggerthan me, bigger than us.
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Or why don't we conversation in that space
though?
Like, what is something that youwould want someone to know that
has been there before, um, toknow kind of where you are now
being on the other side of it?
Like, what would you want toleave with someone that is
either currently in it or tryingto get out of it?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
One, I think create the space that you need to heal.
Um, because it is okay to getthe support that you need for
healing, no matter where you arein your your journey, your life.
Um, sometimes I think peoplealso take things like
personality and they're like,well, this is this person's
personality.
But I would disagree.
I think this is this person'sunhealed um, you know,
(20:11):
situations that are coming upthat may be causing them to
respond that way, you know, ifthey are experiencing like a
trigger or something like that.
And I think that for me has beenso important.
I'm like, that's not who I am.
Because when I'm kicking it andI'm having fun and I'm not
feeling that I'm in situationswhere I'm not safe or
comfortable, then I'm okay.
Yeah.
(20:32):
But the minute I do feel like Iam triggered or disrespected and
things like that, then I'm like,oh my goodness, I have such a
huge response to that.
And so, and I did, you know,especially I would say very big
responses, you know, throughoutmy 20s.
But in more recent years, herein the last just couple of
years, I'm like, oh my gosh,this is this is not what this
(20:55):
is.
I'm having a response tosomething based on earlier
experiences.
And so I've been really activein putting in the work.
And so that would be myencouragement to people as well.
Like you do have to kind of putin the work because I don't
think that's who you are.
And if you don't like how you'reresponding, it could be just
because of earlier experiences,right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
And how would someone, I guess, having your
doctor hat on really is howwould someone really identify
that, you know, this responseright now really isn't me, you
know?
And I'm I might be off, I might,and because I think sometimes
people process different thingsthat may have happened to them
when they were younger indifferent ways, and then they
don't realize that an adultresponse to that is actually
(21:38):
that.
Like, how is that for someone tokind of identify that there is
there's a trauma or anexperience in me that's not
healed that is causing me toreact this way?
And I mean, we're totally likeoff what we want to do.
Completely this way, Iliterally, but we'll we'll get
(21:58):
back on track.
But I think I think it'simportant to kind of close this
out there.
Okay.
So I think how would someoneknow that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
I guess there's a lot of things that we can
consider, right?
But maybe if you don't like howyou're feeling, or if you
recognize like you're just kindof looking back, like, why did I
do that?
You know, you might bequestioning some things about
you.
I would say there's a that's agood indication to be able to
get that help and support.
Or if you want to change it, youknow, you're like, oh goodness,
(22:29):
I just say some tips and toolsand how I could respond
differently to that situation,then that's an opportunity.
Or if you know you've had somedifficulties within your
childhood that you've never, youknow, create had a space to be
able to get the support with,then maybe it's just okay to
say, you know what?
I wonder, I'm curious if this isimpacting me in any way.
(22:53):
So maybe there's will be a fewways that we could consider.
But some people earn it as,well, this is just how I am.
And I'm like, I don't know, wekind of start stomping our feet
on this is how we are, and thisis what it is.
Is that always true, right?
Yeah.
And this is me having aconversation a lot, you know,
with myself, right?
So yeah, I know definitely as oftoday, I'm only a psychologist
(23:16):
because I want it to save me.
And now that I'm putting in thislevel of work, you know, I'm
really curious where my journeywill take me beyond.
I wouldn't say just being apsychologist, but I know that
that's not the end of my story.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah, but it's foundation for whatever we do
next.
Absolutely.
Right?
And I yeah, for sure.
And you know, in the blackcommunity in particular, like
we're still not comfortabletalking about getting that type
of help.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think I I've been prettyopen before about being in
therapy and things like that andbeing able to not necessarily
think, well, I guess it'sdiagnosed, you know, like
different things that you'vebeen through and how you react
(23:50):
to things, but like the processof figuring out why you respond
in those places, I mean, thatway I should say, is it's almost
healing in a way because it'slike I have I can actually
identify what that response is.
Like, you know what I mean?
I and I spoke about it on thepodcast with my dad, is I didn't
realize growing up, like movingfrom like my mom to my dad and
things like that, that for me itbuilt up like this separation
(24:13):
anxiety that I didn't even couldnot even didn't even know what
that was, right?
And like as a kid, when you'removing from house to house, like
you kind of have to shut off oneside of I miss you and I want to
be there, but then I feel guiltybeing over here.
And I only learned what that wasthrough therapy, like you know
what I mean.
And in our community, how do weget people more comfortable with
(24:34):
seeking help for things thatthey might not even know are
things they need healing from?
Absolutely.
Well, when I say healing, Imean, you know, I'm not trying
to, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:43):
Yeah, I would say this is the first step, right?
Where we have people like usthat are having this
conversation.
I go to therapy, I have mysessions regularly, twice a
month.
Like I'm I'm on twice a monthright now.
Um, because I have some thingsthat I really wanted to work on,
and so I was like, this is whatI'm doing.
And so I think one is us havingthese conversations and being
(25:05):
able to normalize it and knowthat yes, yes, I if you have me
as your therapist, I go totherapy, and it's because I just
want to make sure that I'mfocusing on my own healing and
my own development and growth sothat I can try my best every
time to show up as my my bestself, yeah, you know, in the
(25:28):
therapy room, but also I'm atlife, right?
You know, and so I just want tomake sure that I'm actively
working on that.
So I think that's one of thefirst steps, and and I think
also encouraging people toalmost interview your therapist.
Where does my information go?
What happens?
So that they can at least feelsafe when they go, and and it's
(25:49):
okay if you're like, I don'tlike how that pressing me.
Fire them next one, yeah, andyou're allowed to move on.
Like, that's okay.
Like, I don't have to bedepressing, you can absolutely,
you know, go to someone else.
I mean, throughout my years,I've had a few different
therapists.
Same.
And I think they had differentroles in the different seasons
that I was in um with in mylife.
(26:10):
And then I've had experienceswhere I'm like, that one didn't
feel so good.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
I no, I totally agree with you.
My very well second therapistthat I had was a gentleman, was
a man, and he um he was a personof color, but he was in black,
and like there were some nuancesof my experience that it was
draining to have to explain fromthat side, right?
Right, and I was like, this isjust not something I want to
have to do in therapy.
Like, you know what I mean?
(26:35):
I I need someone who gets itimmediately.
I don't want to have to take theinitial time to explain while
I'm there, and then that's whenI realized.
Well, one, he also made acomment about how many times I
get my hair done.
I was like, child, I need me ablack woman immediately, right?
Once on.
So one time I did, I said, youknow what?
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
That's over.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
That's the new requirement, top of the list,
right?
Absolutely.
So you're absolutely right.
It's figuring out the price.
He was good in certain things,but that was more draining for
me out of the sessions than theother side of it.
So I agree.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
I had a therapist explore my black privilege, and
I said, All right, this is it.
So yeah, it was it was a whiteblack privilege.
Oh no.
Um, because I mean, you know, myyou know, my parents worked
hard, they made sacrifices andthings like that.
And I remember being like,Pardon me?
I was in the UK though at thetime, and so, but leading up
(27:28):
until that point, I have to say,I have to take the work that we
did do as helpful.
And then I realized, and nowwe're finished.
Yes, and that's okay.
And that's okay.
I was in a position to talk toher about it and say, Hey,
listen, do you remember you saidthis?
This is how um, you know, itmade me feel something.
Yeah, and then I realized I wasabout to be in a role of
educating, and that wasn't therole that I wanted to take on,
(27:50):
and so you know, I brought thatto a close, and but it didn't
put me in a position to give upon therapy because I recognized
people are still human, and shetook me as far as she needed to
take me.
And so I think it's also that ifpeople have tried therapy before
and they felt like it didn'twork, like it's okay to find
somebody else, and it's reallyjust about that safe space with
(28:11):
somebody that you just get totake it all to work on yourself,
you know, they're mirroringthings with you.
I just I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I I think it's I say it all thetime.
I I call my therapist by herfirst name now because that's my
girl, right?
And I'm just like, you know, Ireally her name is Marshall,
she's not in Bermuda, so we'refine.
But like I um I'm definitelykind of I'm invested in her and
then she's invested in me.
And I she knows all thecharacters in my story too,
which is great.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
You know, so it works out.
So just one point before you goon.
As the therapist, we do takepieces of our client as a part
of our heart.
So when you're saying you callit by our first name, like this
is a special relationship, soyou know, we do really kind of
hold that very close.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
So, I mean, girl, we are all off the path, right?
But I'm gonna try to bring us tothat.
I don't know what happenedthere.
I appreciate it though, and Ithink it was it was meant to be
for sure.
I think that that was that wasmeant to be.
Yeah.
Um, but there's you've studiedand worked in so many different
places from Tennessee to Londonand Bristol.
And so, how have would you saythose experiences have kind of
(29:23):
shaped your perspective onmental wellness and culture and
what what you're currently doingtoday, excuse me?
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say that when I wasstudying in Bristol, that was a
huge pivotal moment for me.
Um, I was one of two blackstudents on our course, maybe it
was like 12 or 15 of us, I can'tremember exactly the number.
And that was a big momentbecause we were talking a lot
about diversity and we weredoing leadership classes, um, as
(29:53):
well as you know, all of ourother um classes on psychology.
We were also doing things likegroups and organizations.
And I told you I'm a pink andidiot and I have a really very
strong opinion and strongpersonality at different times.
And I would push back on mylecturers when things did not,
you know, make sense.
(30:15):
And that was a big moment for mebecause I could have risked
everything.
Yeah, I could have for sure.
It's like, wait a minute, girl.
And so that was a big moment forme on systems and how
information is delivered andgiven to us and how much we just
kind of take that on.
Yeah.
Where it may not always be inthe best interest of everyone.
And when I was there, um thesort of narrative therapy uh
(30:40):
training that I did, groups,organizations, teams was my
favorite.
So that I was like, there issomething that I know that I
need to do with this in thefuture to be able to make some
shifts.
Um it was also a big time, Ithink.
Like Black Lives Matter waspretty big, I think, around that
time.
Like lots of movements werehappening.
So, you know, all of thosesocial conversations were coming
(31:03):
into the classroom as well.
And so I know that thatexperience in Bristol shaped me
because I found my voice in adifferent way.
Um, as much as I was alwaysopinionated, I was like, no, I
have something to stand on now.
You all are missing certainthings, you're teaching
leadership.
There are no black leaders inthe power in the slide act.
Like, what are we doing?
(31:23):
You know, and so that really didshape me.
And I was like, okay, if I canget through this and they pass
me, my voice is not going to besilenced because I'm gonna have
this piece of paper at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
You're gonna have to listen.
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
So that definitely shaped me, and it's now really
been a foundation for me lookingat organizations and groups and
systems overall, and what's theinformation that's given to us?
Is it helpful?
Is it harmful?
You know, um, so that's been areal, real game changer for me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I didn't realize until the shop that like the
work that you do and the workthat I do pretty much kind of
overlap in like a shared missionon culture and people and
organizations.
Like, what would you say is, Iguess, not always understood
around employee well-being, um,things that people don't really
talk about, how we getcolleagues to really produce,
but in a healthy environment tobe able to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about the
generations in the workplace.
And I we either refuse to havethe conversation or we don't
want to acknowledge it in someways.
But I think that makes a bigdifference.
It's what four or fivegenerations or so anyway.
Right now, first time ever.
Yeah.
Four, first time ever.
We're living longer, so peopleare working longer.
You know, that's going to have ahuge impact.
(32:39):
And I think we're doing a lot offinger pointing of they're
getting their they're wrongbecause they're not doing it how
we did it, right?
So you may have the baby boomerswho are saying, Who do these
millennials think they are?
Who do these Gen Z think theyare?
You know, even things like workethic, you know, well, where's
their work ethic?
I'm like, they did all the workand things, you know, uh good
(33:01):
not how you did it, right?
And so I I for me is having theconversation and being able to
say, what is the responsibilitythat we all have to be able to
work better together?
I think within in the workplace,I think that's something that is
missed, you know, becausethey're not doing it how they
(33:21):
did it, and then the youngergeneration, the Gen Z is saying,
these old people, I'm leaving atfive, you know.
They're different, it'sdifferent, you know.
I leave at five.
Uh-huh.
Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'mleaving, you know.
I'm one of those people.
I'm probably gonna do my workany time that I need to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
But they prioritize their mental health more than I
think we did as millennials,more than the people about, you
know, Gen X.
Um, they're like, this is notgood for mental health, I'm just
not doing it anymore.
Like their brand loyalty tocompanies is just it's not a
thing.
Absolutely.
Um in a way, I respect it.
You know, like I if I had thattype of gumption when I first
(34:00):
started in, you know, working, Iprobably have a lot better
boundaries of work now than Idid then.
Right.
But you know, I guess it has itsups and downs, but prioritizing
your mental health, I don'tthink they're the first
generation that I've ever seenor known that have done that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Absolutely.
And we can't have companies thatare saying they want to talk
about mental health, we aregoing to do mental health
sensitive, we're gonna have allthese trainings, and then they
come in and they're like, Well,this is impacting my mental
health, and we're like, Where'syour work ethic?
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Yeah, exactly.
You gotta pick a side.
Yeah, yeah.
You can be asking about the workethic is and they're telling you
that they're they're fightingfor the life every day.
Like, this is exactly.
So, in this, I know you'vetalked a lot about this
work-life balance conversation.
I guess, like, what does it meanto you, and how did like that
from your framework of that kindof phrase come about?
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
With awareness-driven lifestyle.
Yes, yes, sorry, yes, that'sokay.
So, work-life balance, cool.
I got it, I'm her for it.
So, a few years ago, I was in mydoctor's office and I had my
physical and we were talking,and only way out, it's just like
Jana, so you're thepsychologist, what are you gonna
do about all this stress?
(35:08):
I sat, oh, I feel attacked.
Um, so I was like, I'm gonnawork on it, I'm gonna work on
it, right?
So, anyway, fast forward, um, Istarted to look at work-life
balance and say, How am I goingto sort of you know rejig my
life a little bit?
Anyway, I decided that it wasn'tworking for me.
Words mean things, I'm big onwhat did you say?
(35:29):
There's words.
So balance, it's just wasn't forme.
So I started to look in mycapacity and say, what is my
capacity for daily living?
Right.
And so I just started to livebased on if I can't do it, I'm
not punishing myself, it doesn'tfit within my capacity.
And so I started to have morecapacity bubbles, so some bigger
bubbles, some smaller bubbles,and I looked at my day and I
(35:51):
said, Okay, that means I have todo this much work.
It means my bubbles a little bitbigger, which means I may not be
able to spend as much time withfriends or do certain things.
So those were smaller bubbles,and so I just started to say,
What's my capacity bubbles?
And started to live more from anawareness perspective of what I
needed to achieve within thattime, within that day.
(36:11):
And I was like, I'm notbalancing anything.
If it didn't get done, it didn'tfit within my capacity for daily
living, you know, within thatday.
Yeah, and so I went back to herand I was oh good behavior.
And she's like, Okay, a wholeframework.
I said, Yeah.
So yeah, I get work-lifebalance, and I think it's
helpful and I get it, but justfor me, it was words, yeah.
(36:33):
And so I was just like, What isyour capacity?
Do you have the capacity?
Okay, are we realistic about it?
Well, what are we gonna do?
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Um no, I love it because I think I actually think
the phrase work-life balancekind of sets us up for failure a
little bit.
Um, because it's you're nevergonna have that equal balance.
You know what I mean?
It's just it's just notattainable.
And I think we have to kind ofreverse that phrase, figure out
a different whatever it is.
But you know, I asked thequestion to everyone who's on
(37:00):
the podcast, and it's all verydifferent frameworks of what
you've said, but all verysimilar in the sense of if
you're living this purposefuldriven life, think something is
gonna be sacrificed at differenttimes, and you just gotta figure
out prioritize or your capacityin that moment.
And that's just how that's gonnabe.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
So I guess as we kind of like wrap up here, um,
what would you say is like yourwhat does personal fulfillment
for you look out look likeoutside of May Vera wellness and
what makes Jana happy and allthose types of things?
SPEAKER_00 (37:31):
Oh, what makes me happy?
Um weirdly it is connected to mybusiness, what I will say.
I am fortunate to be in aposition where I facilitate
groups um pretty much indifferent areas right now where
people of all backgrounds, allwalks of life, um, there's that
may even be unemployed,underhouse, unskilled.
(37:53):
Every time I show up intowhichever room, I really think
that I am walking in my purposebecause I'm meeting people
exactly where they are andallowing it to be the
conversation needs to be in theway that they can digest it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
So I think I'm at a place right now where I can sit
in the boardroom and I can alsosit on the corner and have a
conversation and try to inspirechange in someone's life.
And I think that's exactly whatmy soul is supposed to be doing
right now.
I think that's my soul's purposeas of today um to be relatable,
(38:29):
to not be higher or lower oranything than anyone else, but
just what can I do to walkalongside you to make the
changes needed, that is as anindividual, as a group, as a
team, but as a wider system.
Yeah.
As well.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
How does it feel to I guess be walking in your
purpose and what you're supposedto be doing?
Like, what does that feel like?
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Peaceful.
Peaceful.
I'm not working.
Like I'm really, it's not workto me.
So, you know, yesterday I did apersonal and professional
etiquette class for teens.
I don't feel like I'm working, Ifeel like I'm at peace.
I'm just choosing things thatmake me happy, and it just feels
good.
Yeah.
And I know in the next couple ofyears it's probably gonna be a
(39:13):
really big pivot for me, andthat would just still be aligned
with what I'm supposed to bedoing.
Um, yeah, I don't think I'msupposed to be a psychologist
forever.
I think I will or just be apsychologist.
I think there's more that Imaybe didn't do because I was so
busy trying to heal this wound.
And I know the next phase of myjourney is like we did that.
(39:34):
Yeah, we healed the being girl.
I say we meaning my little girlin me, as we like we did that.
So what else can you learn?
What else can you explore?
I told you I went to universityand I didn't realize I was in
all of the classes that I wasn'tsupposed to be in.
So who knows?
It might be studying somethingelse just for myself, and yeah,
um, just being at peace withthat as well.
(39:55):
I think that's a part of my nextsteps on my journey.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah, speaking of little the little girl inside of
you, where you are now, whatwhat would you tell her?
SPEAKER_00 (40:04):
Oh, that we're gonna be all right, baby.
We are going to make it.
I'm got you.
We are fine, you are safe.
Um, you know, we're we're free.
Like I'm free and I'm living ina way that I I deserve to be
living right now.
And I I feel comfortable um withjust who I am and how I'm
(40:24):
showing up.
I've had to forgive myself,right?
And you know, and and takeresponsibility for my actions,
right?
Like, no, you responded thatway, it wasn't helpful, but
you're alright.
And so I'm letting her know weare okay.
If if things didn't go accordingto pan and finish today, like I
feel like I did the best that Icould with the life that I've
(40:47):
lived so far, and I'm proud ofit.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (40:50):
Oh, girl, this is not what we thought this was
gonna be today.
SPEAKER_00 (40:55):
But I do, I feel proud of myself.
Um and I'm far from perfect, butI do, I feel proud of the work
that I'm putting in.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
It's amazing.
So here on Hustle Heart Podcast,girl, we ask everyone as a rap,
as a final question, um, youknow, when you're no longer
here, and you know, we touch thewood when we say that, um, where
it says a long time from now,and someone says, Dr.
Jana Otterbridge or Jana andwhatever next iteration of what
you do is next, what do you wantto be remembered for when that
(41:23):
question is asked?
Or if someone says, Who did youknow, Jana?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
Yeah, so if it was as of right now, it would be
that she was inspirational andtried her best to pull into
everybody to help them to betheir best self.
Um, that would be what Iactually question looking back
on my 100th birthday.
Yeah, that's what I would wantto do.
But I think the next phase of mylife, I would like to also have
(41:47):
a financial impact, which meansI have to learn new things.
I've always avoided numbers andbut I want to be able to just
donate to different um people inneed and they never know that it
was me.
I just I that's what I think Iwant to do, and that's going to
be a lot of work for me tofigure out what that means.
I'm rich and none of this thing.
But if I can set up things whereI'm like, oh yeah, they just got
(42:10):
10 grand and I just kept walkingand it changed their life, and
no one ever had to know.
Like, if I could figure out whatthat means for me to do that,
um, and I die to zero, that'sokay.
But I made you know a positiveimpact.
That would be my hope for mynext phase of life.
Yeah, gotta get there, I'llfigure out how to make this
money.
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
It'll it'll it'll happen.
It'll happen when your heart'sin the right place, those types
of things open up, and angelinvesting is a huge space, and
you have people who do it indifferent ways as well, like
they get the money and then theyum donate it anonymously.
So you'll I'm sure you'll figureout a way to make it happen.
And I'm I am hopeful for it foryou.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's some my I thinkthat's if I died with when I did
those two things.
Um, yeah, one I'm already doingit.
Yes.
unknown (42:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:56):
So next one.
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
Well, Jana, I really, really appreciate this
conversation and I'm so gratefulto you for being open to allow
the conversation to go that way.
And I again, not what we did notplan at all at all.
Not at all.
Um, but and I hope that itresonates one with someone else,
and I hope you feel freed bythat as well.
Um, in this conversation.
(43:17):
Yeah, really appreciate youmaking me emotional, girl.
Um, I appreciate yourvulnerability um here today, and
I'm very grateful.
SPEAKER_00 (43:24):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Maybe it was just the time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah, maybe it was the time.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
I'm grateful.
Thanks.
Yes, I really appreciate it.
All right, girls, get ittogether, children.
All right, we gotta get ittogether.
All right, guys, we had theamazing Dr.
Jana Otterbridge of MadeiraWellness here with me today.
She was extremely vulnerable.
We had an open conversationabout things that we didn't plan
for, but sometimes we just gottapivot and allow the conversation
(43:48):
to go the way that it's supposedto go.
It's meant for a reason, and I'mvery grateful to her for being
open and honest with us today.
As always, thank you everybodyfor having me today.
Thank you for our 595 and it'sbeen a moment.
Thank you, thank you, thank youfor watching.
It's time for Hustle Her Podcast.
I'm your host, Deshay Keynes.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders who we
are today.
If you're an enterprising woman,determined to succeed, and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love, and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you, girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast.
As always, thank you forspending some time for me here
today.
Big shout out to our sponsors,59 Front, Brown and Company, as
well as Scootamart.
(00:43):
Make sure you head over to thewebsite, desheycanes.com, to
check all of our previousepisodes and give me some
feedback.
Let me know what you think aboutit.
Make sure you're liking andsubscribing to the YouTube
channel so you can stay up todate with all the content that
we have there.
Super excited about my guesttoday.
And I know I say this all thetime.
But we both recently spoke atDisrupt HR here in Bermuda, and
she opened up, she was our firstspeaker, and she absolutely
(01:04):
killed it.
Not gonna lie, put me, I waslike, I don't know how I can
follow that.
But I knew in that moment thatshe had to be on the podcast.
And so I'm really excited tohave the CEO of May Vera here
with me today, Dr.
Jenna Audibret.
Jenna girl, how are you doing?
Thank you.
I'm good, I'm good.
I'm loving this yellow.
So look, breath of fresh air.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
You know, I thought I'll spice it up a little bit.
Normally I'm in the dark colors.
I said, not today.
I'm gonna keep it bright,sunshine and all that.
Yes.
And I'm in a good space, so whynot bring a little sunshine?
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
I'm really excited to have you here.
Let's start off with some rapidfires and just get my listeners
to know you a little bit better,and then we'll jump right in.
Cool?
All right, so what's somethingthat you don't leave your house
without?
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
So I have this backpack that I never leave
without because it has my laptopin it, pencil crayons, markers,
highlighters.
I feel like I could put on aworkshop anywhere I get.
Exactly.
Everything is ready.
If I don't have it, I'm in apanic.
Like, oh, I have to run back.
Yeah, it doesn't matter whattime.
I have to go back and get it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
I'm here for it.
I can understand.
All right, coffee, tea.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Ooh.
Right now it's coffee, but thatcan always change in like six
months and I'll just be on tea.
But right now it's coffee daily.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
So you're not you're not a matcha girl?
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
You know, if I'm honest, I don't even think I've
ever had matcha as much aseveryone has talked about it, so
I probably need to get that onmy list of things.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I'll give you my I'll give you my matcha
breakdown and you can try it outthere.
Don't try it by itself.
You will be not be a fan.
You gotta get a little extrastuff in it.
Okay.
But we'll go from one.
All right, what's something yourclosest friends would say about
you?
If you had to choose one word,what would they say about you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Oh.
I two words came to mind.
Oh my goodness.
I'm gonna say opinionated andstrong.
But yeah, I would say she's veryopinionated and strong.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
They know that they're getting honesty from
you, right?
I'm gonna say it.
There you go.
All right, what's one quote orphrase that keeps you grounded?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
Ooh, that keeps me grounded.
Um, I tend to say, baby girl,you are worth it.
Don't play, don't sleep onyourself.
That's kind of something that'sa part of my affirmations.
Um, I'm sure it's probably morethat I go by, but I definitely
call myself baby girl when Ilook in the mirror, like I know.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Sometimes, let me tell you, the music helps out
too.
Like, you know, you know, I Irun through a few options, but
I'm there with you on that one.
All right, what's on yournightstand right now?
SPEAKER_00 (03:41):
Oh, what's there apart from the lamp?
Um, honestly, probably some mailthat I have to open up that I've
rested.
unknown (03:51):
Something.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah.
And what would you say uh wasyour childhood dream job?
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Oh, I wanted to be a pilot.
Pilot?
That I wanted to be an airlinepilot.
You could not tell me anythingabout that.
That was my dream.
Okay, all right.
It changed, obviously, but Ialways knew I was going to fly
planes around the world.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
And what's one thing people might, if they found out
about you, would surprise them?
A hidden talent or somethinglike that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
Oh a hidden talent or something.
Oh, got me thinking.
Okay, what's the one thing?
I used to do show jumping, but Ithink a lot of people knew that
about me.
I used to be an equestriangrowing up.
I didn't I didn't know that, sothere we go.
That was Yeah, that was that waslife growing up at the horse
(04:39):
stable.
But a lot of people don't knowthat.
Okay, maybe I don't know if it'sstill it's not currently a
talent, but I used to do that.
Yeah, once upon a time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
Okay, cool.
All right, and then finally, andI'm like keeping my fingers
crossed, right?
It's the time of year that we'rein.
What is your cut match team orwho is your cut match team?
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Oh, I'm not gonna disappoint you, don't worry.
I'm for St.
George's.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
Um for two, oh for three.
What is happening?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Definitely for St.
George's, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Proudest fans with such a losing record.
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, you have to stand by them, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
That's all right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
They develop it, the developing, the gathering there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
Developing.
I love it.
This is funny.
This is funny.
All right, let's take it back tothe beginning and how you got
these awful, you know, rude.
But yeah, um, let's take it backto the beginning.
So tell me about Jana as achild.
Like, what were you into otherthan being an equestrian?
But like, what were your thingsthat you liked, didn't like?
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
So, me as a child, let's think.
Hmm, is it ballet?
I danced.
I don't know.
I think I was probably similarto how I am now, it's probably a
little bit to myself, maybe.
I grew up in youth group andchurch and things like that.
That was, I think, a part of mylife.
Um, yeah, dancing, horse stable,that was pretty much me.
(06:08):
I was talking to someone theother day and I realized I
wasn't a neighborhood child.
You know how children played inthe neighborhood.
I probably wasn't that childbecause my parents had me
cracking with like activitiesand different things.
I can probably remember thetimes that I was just in a
neighborhood.
Now I don't know where thatlands or what that means in
adulthood.
Now that I'm a psychologist, I'mlike, should I remember?
(06:31):
But um, but yeah, so that wasthat was kind of what I was
doing for for the most part,even when I was riding, I
represented Premier Island andshow jumping a little bit, you
know, when I was younger, butthat's kind of me, I think, more
like activity-based.
Um, but yeah, to myself, I hadmy friends, like my little
friends, tackle, uh growing up,and that was kind of my journey.
(06:57):
Um, school.
So I went primary school.
I was at Francis Patton, then Iwent to Clearwater for a bit,
and then I went to threedifferent home schools.
It's a whole journey in itself.
Yeah.
And then I ended up graduatingmy GED.
So I went to care and I had myGED.
It's just been figuring outlife, I think, ever since that
(07:17):
time.
Uh what else?
I went to Bermuda College.
So after my GED, I went toBermuda College for a semester.
And then I got into university.
Then I went to Tennessee StateUniversity.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
I was in Alabama.
So South, dirty South, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Being at an HBCU, I am so happy that I went and I
was in the South.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
I I tell people all the time,and I know going to HBCUs are
like a thing now, and theyweren't really like for a while,
but that is single-handedly theonly time in my life I have been
around black excellence for fouryears.
Like, I mean, there is it is anunmatched experience, and I
recommend it to everyone to go,even if it's just for a short
(08:02):
period of time, whatever it is,like your network starts there,
and it like it's the level, it'sjust everyone is here.
You know what I mean?
And I just think it's such anawesome experience.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I mean, I think my professorsreally did shape my experience.
There was a lecturer that Iheard, uh, his name was Jeff
Minzi, and his story was soinspirational.
I still stand by it.
And anyway, fast forward, hesaid he had a teacher that
didn't believe in him, and hewanted to make sure that he had
his doctorate degree by 30.
(08:31):
And he had his doctorate degreeby 30.
And I remember him telling usthat story in my first semester.
And I was like, I'm gonna havemy doctorate degree in
psychology by 30.
You know, just those types ofstories, and I think how much
they poured into us and theywere able to share.
And these are people that therepresentation, right?
That looked like you, that hadreal stories that related to
(08:52):
yours.
Um, so that was so important,and then I did.
I ended up getting my degree by30.
So, you know, those thingsreally do.
It matters.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
It it matters because you saw someone who
looked like you, who set a goal,who did it, and it was instantly
achievable for you, right?
And that's the key aroundrepresentation that people don't
always get.
Like if you can't see, youyou're not gonna know that this
is attainable for you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Absolutely.
And because I starteduniversity, I had my GED, and
then I think what is it, SATs, GR E, or anyway, whatever it was,
I just did enough to get by.
That was that was my story.
And so when I starteduniversity, I was actually
behind everyone else.
So I was in all of the, I wouldsay more learning support
classes, but I didn't know that,right?
(09:36):
So I'm walking through thecampus one day, and one of my
friends are like, Oh yeah.
Anyway, she pointed out thelittle the learning center, and
I was like, that's where all myclasses are.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
But I didn't say anything, I waslike, wait, I girl, I went back,
I was like, wait, I am in allthe development classes.
I've never been in a developmentclass because I sat I did my GED
(09:58):
one time, like I didn't have youknow these challenges, but
anyway, because of my schoolersand everything, all of it coming
together.
I only had to know that onetime.
I graduated on time witheveryone else.
I still play, like I still didall the things, right?
But I just picked up my out,picked up the number of credits
that I was doing and just kindof went for it.
So once it came to my overners,I was like, you were like, oh
(10:22):
no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
We're not gonna be able to do that.
I didn't know I was behind.
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
I thought I was on time of everybody out, girl.
But I just like, oh no,absolutely not.
It's gonna fix that one and keepit moving, push to work.
But yeah, that's a little bit ofI guess my academic journey.
I got it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
So you say you pledged.
What did you pledge?
What did you pledge?
Excuse me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
I mean, there's only one thing that I think you know
really is missing point.
But yeah, so uh I hope we're notgonna have another difference of
opinion here, Jenna.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
But you know, let's but I'm definitely a Delta.
Okay, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
I'm from a family of AKAs, but that's I I yeah, and
that's you know, things happenin life.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
But yeah, sit there to be as my sister who's naked.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
That is so funny, but yeah, I mean it's just cool
memories and experiences, right?
And I mean, on campus for us, atleast with within my year, we
all got along.
Like it was a beautifulexperience, you know.
It was in fun benter, butnothing measure and everybody
was on the yard.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Yeah, on the yard, exactly.
And I didn't pledge because atmy school, Oakwood didn't have I
think it's a whole nothersituation.
But um, you know, uh privateeventist schools, they don't
allow for sororities andfraternities and stuff.
I didn't have that experience.
So that is one experience that Igenuinely miss from that.
But we all went over to theother schools, and you know,
especially when people, youknow, do all that.
(11:46):
That's unmatched as well.
That's an experience I thinkeveryone should also have a part
of.
But so at Disrupt HR, um, therewere two people in the room when
you were talking and you weredoing your speech who were like
beaming with pride, yourparents, right?
Yes.
I mean, oh my god, you wouldhave thought it was like light
radiating from behind them whenthey were when you were
speaking, they were so happythey were recording all the
(12:08):
things, right?
Like, how would you say yourparents shaped who you are and
all your core values?
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Yeah, that's my heart.
Yes, and ooh, so you'll get mewhen we start to talk about
them.
That's for sure.
So I love my parents.
Um, I guess everybody I'm sureloves their parents, but I
really love my parents.
Um, so yeah, they've been myrock, I would say, you know,
throughout life.
So I am technically the abundantchild, right?
(12:37):
So um I, you know, adopted as achild, and yeah, but those are
my parents.
Like there's no ifs ands butsabout it.
They are everything, you know,to me.
And especially even in lateryears now is one being growing
up, but being an adult and beingable to have conversations with
(12:59):
my parents, especially overthese last few years as they're
getting older.
I don't, I feel even moreconnected to them than ever.
Like it's really special becauseit's an adult relationship, like
a you know, adult parent-childrelationship, but it's
beautiful.
And my heart, when it comes tohow they pour into me, like I
said, I'm opinionated andstrong, and I've been that way
(13:22):
since forever.
So, but like her, she goesagain, like it's they just they
just know this about me, butyeah, so yeah, they were there
supporting me, and that wasreally special for me.
Um, because they've they'vealways shined, like both of them
throughout life, you know, allof my activities, all of my
(13:43):
recitals, everything, they haveboth absolutely been there for
me, and love you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
No, they're they're amazing.
Um, and I your mom worked withmy mom at Cedar Bridge for a
while.
So I think that's how Iinitially met your mom.
Yeah, for for a while.
They were they were there andthey talked to each other when
we read disrupt HR.
But like, how was it growing upuh being adopted?
Like, did you feel that?
Did you know?
Like, how was that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
Yeah, I always knew.
Um, I definitely always knewthere was there wasn't a secret,
it wasn't hidden from me.
So I remember as early as Icould remember, right, that this
was the case.
My parents definitely sat medown, they talked to me about
it.
Um, so actually I'm an adoptionresearcher.
So my thesis was on adoption,right?
So it was something that wasreally important to me and to my
(14:31):
journey.
Because as much as I'm supportedand loved, there's always still
that unname piece, right?
It doesn't, it doesn't changethat that is something that
exists.
Of like, well, who is it?
What is it?
Um, my story goes on.
Exactly, exactly.
So for me, um, my family was inBermuda.
(14:52):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was from I was adoptedfrom overseas.
Um, but yeah, absolutely, youknow, there's still that
unknown, and they are knowingthat okay, my family's not
biological family, it's not inBermuda and things like that.
But so it definitely shaped me.
There's there's no doubt aboutit that it absolutely shaped how
I see the world, how Iunderstood things.
(15:14):
Um, I think that's the also thereason why I went into it as a
researcher, right?
And things where, you know,you're not so sure who you're
connected to, you don't lookexactly like anyone.
You know, there's a there are anumber of different layers, you
know, to that experience that100% shape me as an adult.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
Were there some like identity, and I don't want to
say crisis, but in that I mightnot be phrasing that correctly.
So feel free to uh you knowcorrect me there.
But did you have any of thatwhen it came to not particularly
having anyone that looked likeyou?
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
So I I guess I'm gonna say yes.
Only on as I reflect on yourquestion, I think the answer to
that would be yes.
Do I think that it really showedup maybe as a crisis?
Maybe not, you know.
Um, I think I was positivelypoured in poured into um as much
(16:10):
as possible.
I never felt that, you know.
Yeah.
So I think the answer to that isyes, because there's the
underlying stuff that comes withthat, right?
There's so much that's happeningin the subconscious that you
really are not aware of that isshaping you.
Um, but it definitely did shapeme.
There was a part of me that'sdefinitely a bit of an outsider,
(16:34):
right?
Even if it wasn't direct, it wasa little bit more indirect.
Um, and so absolutely,absolutely shaped how I how I
see and understand the world,among other experiences too,
right?
So that wouldn't be the soleexperience that shaped me.
It would be other livedexperiences that all came
together that helped to kind ofform my identity and how I see
(16:55):
and understand the world.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
So yeah, for sure.
And I guess in your current workthat you do and being in a psych
being psychologically safe andor emotionally safe in certain,
I guess, spaces, like is there amoment in your childhood that
you kind of look back on now andyou're like, that's where I
first became invested in thisspace, but you really just
didn't know what it was calledthen.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Yeah, so I I tell people all the time, I well now
I know clearly.
I am a psychologist, I became apsychologist to save me.
It really had absolutely nothingto do with anyone else.
So even through my livedexperience growing up, um, you
know, as a child, as a teenager,you know, I had other, I'm
(17:34):
gonna, I'm gonna use it as I'mgonna use the word, use the word
traumas, um, probably a littlebit more loosely than I need to,
but you know, I had differentexperiences that shape me.
So I experienced, you know,bodily injury from somebody
that, you know, should not have,you know, been in that position
to to kind of bring me thatharm, right?
(17:56):
And so that was a bit ongoing aswell throughout my life.
And so that shaped me.
So not feeling, you know, safeor protected by somebody that I
think very, you know, rightly soshould have been safe and a
place to protect me, right?
So I had that experience aswell.
And so that's the bodily injuryside, but it was also connected
(18:18):
that same experience to thepsychological injury, right?
Um usually the more long-lastingone.
Absolutely, absolutely, right?
Like I have these scars to showfor it, but you know, the
psychological side of it, whichwas uh, you know, lasted so much
longer.
Um, and I think that's a part ofmy story that I know people
don't know because I don't talkabout it, which I think is why
(18:40):
like caught me off guard alittle bit.
Because sometimes you got tothat point where it's like, you
know what, maybe it's okay totell your story, right?
Um, and so maybe that I think isprobably what was coming up for
me.
Yeah, weirdly so.
I don't know why now would bethe time, but for whatever
reasons, you're bringing it outof it.
And I promise you I had no ideawhat it is.
Exactly.
But I think maybe sometimes it'sjust timing, yeah, right?
(19:03):
And maybe, and maybe it's okaybecause I think for me, as much
as I don't talk about it, thereare people that definitely move,
you know what I mean, who areclose to me.
But maybe my story, a part of mylife's journey is that my story
can be healing to somebody else.
And so maybe that's why it'scoming up because I'm excited
with not what I was planning totalk about.
(19:24):
Sorry.
No, no, no, it's fine.
It's fine.
I think it's probably biggerthan me, bigger than us.
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Or why don't we conversation in that space
though?
Like, what is something that youwould want someone to know that
has been there before, um, toknow kind of where you are now
being on the other side of it?
Like, what would you want toleave with someone that is
either currently in it or tryingto get out of it?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
One, I think create the space that you need to heal.
Um, because it is okay to getthe support that you need for
healing, no matter where you arein your your journey, your life.
Um, sometimes I think peoplealso take things like
personality and they're like,well, this is this person's
personality.
But I would disagree.
I think this is this person'sunhealed um, you know,
(20:11):
situations that are coming upthat may be causing them to
respond that way, you know, ifthey are experiencing like a
trigger or something like that.
And I think that for me has beenso important.
I'm like, that's not who I am.
Because when I'm kicking it andI'm having fun and I'm not
feeling that I'm in situationswhere I'm not safe or
comfortable, then I'm okay.
Yeah.
(20:32):
But the minute I do feel like Iam triggered or disrespected and
things like that, then I'm like,oh my goodness, I have such a
huge response to that.
And so, and I did, you know,especially I would say very big
responses, you know, throughoutmy 20s.
But in more recent years, herein the last just couple of
years, I'm like, oh my gosh,this is this is not what this
(20:55):
is.
I'm having a response tosomething based on earlier
experiences.
And so I've been really activein putting in the work.
And so that would be myencouragement to people as well.
Like you do have to kind of putin the work because I don't
think that's who you are.
And if you don't like how you'reresponding, it could be just
because of earlier experiences,right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
And how would someone, I guess, having your
doctor hat on really is howwould someone really identify
that, you know, this responseright now really isn't me, you
know?
And I'm I might be off, I might,and because I think sometimes
people process different thingsthat may have happened to them
when they were younger indifferent ways, and then they
don't realize that an adultresponse to that is actually
(21:38):
that.
Like, how is that for someone tokind of identify that there is
there's a trauma or anexperience in me that's not
healed that is causing me toreact this way?
And I mean, we're totally likeoff what we want to do.
Completely this way, Iliterally, but we'll we'll get
(21:58):
back on track.
But I think I think it'simportant to kind of close this
out there.
Okay.
So I think how would someoneknow that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
I guess there's a lot of things that we can
consider, right?
But maybe if you don't like howyou're feeling, or if you
recognize like you're just kindof looking back, like, why did I
do that?
You know, you might bequestioning some things about
you.
I would say there's a that's agood indication to be able to
get that help and support.
Or if you want to change it, youknow, you're like, oh goodness,
(22:29):
I just say some tips and toolsand how I could respond
differently to that situation,then that's an opportunity.
Or if you know you've had somedifficulties within your
childhood that you've never, youknow, create had a space to be
able to get the support with,then maybe it's just okay to
say, you know what?
I wonder, I'm curious if this isimpacting me in any way.
(22:53):
So maybe there's will be a fewways that we could consider.
But some people earn it as,well, this is just how I am.
And I'm like, I don't know, wekind of start stomping our feet
on this is how we are, and thisis what it is.
Is that always true, right?
Yeah.
And this is me having aconversation a lot, you know,
with myself, right?
So yeah, I know definitely as oftoday, I'm only a psychologist
(23:16):
because I want it to save me.
And now that I'm putting in thislevel of work, you know, I'm
really curious where my journeywill take me beyond.
I wouldn't say just being apsychologist, but I know that
that's not the end of my story.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah, but it's foundation for whatever we do
next.
Absolutely.
Right?
And I yeah, for sure.
And you know, in the blackcommunity in particular, like
we're still not comfortabletalking about getting that type
of help.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think I I've been prettyopen before about being in
therapy and things like that andbeing able to not necessarily
think, well, I guess it'sdiagnosed, you know, like
different things that you'vebeen through and how you react
(23:50):
to things, but like the processof figuring out why you respond
in those places, I mean, thatway I should say, is it's almost
healing in a way because it'slike I have I can actually
identify what that response is.
Like, you know what I mean?
I and I spoke about it on thepodcast with my dad, is I didn't
realize growing up, like movingfrom like my mom to my dad and
things like that, that for me itbuilt up like this separation
(24:13):
anxiety that I didn't even couldnot even didn't even know what
that was, right?
And like as a kid, when you'removing from house to house, like
you kind of have to shut off oneside of I miss you and I want to
be there, but then I feel guiltybeing over here.
And I only learned what that wasthrough therapy, like you know
what I mean.
And in our community, how do weget people more comfortable with
(24:34):
seeking help for things thatthey might not even know are
things they need healing from?
Absolutely.
Well, when I say healing, Imean, you know, I'm not trying
to, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:43):
Yeah, I would say this is the first step, right?
Where we have people like usthat are having this
conversation.
I go to therapy, I have mysessions regularly, twice a
month.
Like I'm I'm on twice a monthright now.
Um, because I have some thingsthat I really wanted to work on,
and so I was like, this is whatI'm doing.
And so I think one is us havingthese conversations and being
(25:05):
able to normalize it and knowthat yes, yes, I if you have me
as your therapist, I go totherapy, and it's because I just
want to make sure that I'mfocusing on my own healing and
my own development and growth sothat I can try my best every
time to show up as my my bestself, yeah, you know, in the
(25:28):
therapy room, but also I'm atlife, right?
You know, and so I just want tomake sure that I'm actively
working on that.
So I think that's one of thefirst steps, and and I think
also encouraging people toalmost interview your therapist.
Where does my information go?
What happens?
So that they can at least feelsafe when they go, and and it's
(25:49):
okay if you're like, I don'tlike how that pressing me.
Fire them next one, yeah, andyou're allowed to move on.
Like, that's okay.
Like, I don't have to bedepressing, you can absolutely,
you know, go to someone else.
I mean, throughout my years,I've had a few different
therapists.
Same.
And I think they had differentroles in the different seasons
that I was in um with in mylife.
(26:10):
And then I've had experienceswhere I'm like, that one didn't
feel so good.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
I no, I totally agree with you.
My very well second therapistthat I had was a gentleman, was
a man, and he um he was a personof color, but he was in black,
and like there were some nuancesof my experience that it was
draining to have to explain fromthat side, right?
Right, and I was like, this isjust not something I want to
have to do in therapy.
Like, you know what I mean?
(26:35):
I I need someone who gets itimmediately.
I don't want to have to take theinitial time to explain while
I'm there, and then that's whenI realized.
Well, one, he also made acomment about how many times I
get my hair done.
I was like, child, I need me ablack woman immediately, right?
Once on.
So one time I did, I said, youknow what?
SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
That's over.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
That's the new requirement, top of the list,
right?
Absolutely.
So you're absolutely right.
It's figuring out the price.
He was good in certain things,but that was more draining for
me out of the sessions than theother side of it.
So I agree.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
I had a therapist explore my black privilege, and
I said, All right, this is it.
So yeah, it was it was a whiteblack privilege.
Oh no.
Um, because I mean, you know, myyou know, my parents worked
hard, they made sacrifices andthings like that.
And I remember being like,Pardon me?
I was in the UK though at thetime, and so, but leading up
(27:28):
until that point, I have to say,I have to take the work that we
did do as helpful.
And then I realized, and nowwe're finished.
Yes, and that's okay.
And that's okay.
I was in a position to talk toher about it and say, Hey,
listen, do you remember you saidthis?
This is how um, you know, itmade me feel something.
Yeah, and then I realized I wasabout to be in a role of
educating, and that wasn't therole that I wanted to take on,
(27:50):
and so you know, I brought thatto a close, and but it didn't
put me in a position to give upon therapy because I recognized
people are still human, and shetook me as far as she needed to
take me.
And so I think it's also that ifpeople have tried therapy before
and they felt like it didn'twork, like it's okay to find
somebody else, and it's reallyjust about that safe space with
(28:11):
somebody that you just get totake it all to work on yourself,
you know, they're mirroringthings with you.
I just I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I I think it's I say it all thetime.
I I call my therapist by herfirst name now because that's my
girl, right?
And I'm just like, you know, Ireally her name is Marshall,
she's not in Bermuda, so we'refine.
But like I um I'm definitelykind of I'm invested in her and
then she's invested in me.
And I she knows all thecharacters in my story too,
which is great.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
You know, so it works out.
So just one point before you goon.
As the therapist, we do takepieces of our client as a part
of our heart.
So when you're saying you callit by our first name, like this
is a special relationship, soyou know, we do really kind of
hold that very close.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
So, I mean, girl, we are all off the path, right?
But I'm gonna try to bring us tothat.
I don't know what happenedthere.
I appreciate it though, and Ithink it was it was meant to be
for sure.
I think that that was that wasmeant to be.
Yeah.
Um, but there's you've studiedand worked in so many different
places from Tennessee to Londonand Bristol.
And so, how have would you saythose experiences have kind of
(29:23):
shaped your perspective onmental wellness and culture and
what what you're currently doingtoday, excuse me?
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say that when I wasstudying in Bristol, that was a
huge pivotal moment for me.
Um, I was one of two blackstudents on our course, maybe it
was like 12 or 15 of us, I can'tremember exactly the number.
And that was a big momentbecause we were talking a lot
about diversity and we weredoing leadership classes, um, as
(29:53):
well as you know, all of ourother um classes on psychology.
We were also doing things likegroups and organizations.
And I told you I'm a pink andidiot and I have a really very
strong opinion and strongpersonality at different times.
And I would push back on mylecturers when things did not,
you know, make sense.
(30:15):
And that was a big moment for mebecause I could have risked
everything.
Yeah, I could have for sure.
It's like, wait a minute, girl.
And so that was a big moment forme on systems and how
information is delivered andgiven to us and how much we just
kind of take that on.
Yeah.
Where it may not always be inthe best interest of everyone.
And when I was there, um thesort of narrative therapy uh
(30:40):
training that I did, groups,organizations, teams was my
favorite.
So that I was like, there issomething that I know that I
need to do with this in thefuture to be able to make some
shifts.
Um it was also a big time, Ithink.
Like Black Lives Matter waspretty big, I think, around that
time.
Like lots of movements werehappening.
So, you know, all of thosesocial conversations were coming
(31:03):
into the classroom as well.
And so I know that thatexperience in Bristol shaped me
because I found my voice in adifferent way.
Um, as much as I was alwaysopinionated, I was like, no, I
have something to stand on now.
You all are missing certainthings, you're teaching
leadership.
There are no black leaders inthe power in the slide act.
Like, what are we doing?
(31:23):
You know, and so that really didshape me.
And I was like, okay, if I canget through this and they pass
me, my voice is not going to besilenced because I'm gonna have
this piece of paper at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
You're gonna have to listen.
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
So that definitely shaped me, and it's now really
been a foundation for me lookingat organizations and groups and
systems overall, and what's theinformation that's given to us?
Is it helpful?
Is it harmful?
You know, um, so that's been areal, real game changer for me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I didn't realize until the shop that like the
work that you do and the workthat I do pretty much kind of
overlap in like a shared missionon culture and people and
organizations.
Like, what would you say is, Iguess, not always understood
around employee well-being, um,things that people don't really
talk about, how we getcolleagues to really produce,
but in a healthy environment tobe able to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about the
generations in the workplace.
And I we either refuse to havethe conversation or we don't
want to acknowledge it in someways.
But I think that makes a bigdifference.
It's what four or fivegenerations or so anyway.
Right now, first time ever.
Yeah.
Four, first time ever.
We're living longer, so peopleare working longer.
You know, that's going to have ahuge impact.
(32:39):
And I think we're doing a lot offinger pointing of they're
getting their they're wrongbecause they're not doing it how
we did it, right?
So you may have the baby boomerswho are saying, Who do these
millennials think they are?
Who do these Gen Z think theyare?
You know, even things like workethic, you know, well, where's
their work ethic?
I'm like, they did all the workand things, you know, uh good
(33:01):
not how you did it, right?
And so I I for me is having theconversation and being able to
say, what is the responsibilitythat we all have to be able to
work better together?
I think within in the workplace,I think that's something that is
missed, you know, becausethey're not doing it how they
(33:21):
did it, and then the youngergeneration, the Gen Z is saying,
these old people, I'm leaving atfive, you know.
They're different, it'sdifferent, you know.
I leave at five.
Uh-huh.
Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'mleaving, you know.
I'm one of those people.
I'm probably gonna do my workany time that I need to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
But they prioritize their mental health more than I
think we did as millennials,more than the people about, you
know, Gen X.
Um, they're like, this is notgood for mental health, I'm just
not doing it anymore.
Like their brand loyalty tocompanies is just it's not a
thing.
Absolutely.
Um in a way, I respect it.
You know, like I if I had thattype of gumption when I first
(34:00):
started in, you know, working, Iprobably have a lot better
boundaries of work now than Idid then.
Right.
But you know, I guess it has itsups and downs, but prioritizing
your mental health, I don'tthink they're the first
generation that I've ever seenor known that have done that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Absolutely.
And we can't have companies thatare saying they want to talk
about mental health, we aregoing to do mental health
sensitive, we're gonna have allthese trainings, and then they
come in and they're like, Well,this is impacting my mental
health, and we're like, Where'syour work ethic?
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Yeah, exactly.
You gotta pick a side.
Yeah, yeah.
You can be asking about the workethic is and they're telling you
that they're they're fightingfor the life every day.
Like, this is exactly.
So, in this, I know you'vetalked a lot about this
work-life balance conversation.
I guess, like, what does it meanto you, and how did like that
from your framework of that kindof phrase come about?
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
With awareness-driven lifestyle.
Yes, yes, sorry, yes, that'sokay.
So, work-life balance, cool.
I got it, I'm her for it.
So, a few years ago, I was in mydoctor's office and I had my
physical and we were talking,and only way out, it's just like
Jana, so you're thepsychologist, what are you gonna
do about all this stress?
(35:08):
I sat, oh, I feel attacked.
Um, so I was like, I'm gonnawork on it, I'm gonna work on
it, right?
So, anyway, fast forward, um, Istarted to look at work-life
balance and say, How am I goingto sort of you know rejig my
life a little bit?
Anyway, I decided that it wasn'tworking for me.
Words mean things, I'm big onwhat did you say?
(35:29):
There's words.
So balance, it's just wasn't forme.
So I started to look in mycapacity and say, what is my
capacity for daily living?
Right.
And so I just started to livebased on if I can't do it, I'm
not punishing myself, it doesn'tfit within my capacity.
And so I started to have morecapacity bubbles, so some bigger
bubbles, some smaller bubbles,and I looked at my day and I
(35:51):
said, Okay, that means I have todo this much work.
It means my bubbles a little bitbigger, which means I may not be
able to spend as much time withfriends or do certain things.
So those were smaller bubbles,and so I just started to say,
What's my capacity bubbles?
And started to live more from anawareness perspective of what I
needed to achieve within thattime, within that day.
(36:11):
And I was like, I'm notbalancing anything.
If it didn't get done, it didn'tfit within my capacity for daily
living, you know, within thatday.
Yeah, and so I went back to herand I was oh good behavior.
And she's like, Okay, a wholeframework.
I said, Yeah.
So yeah, I get work-lifebalance, and I think it's
helpful and I get it, but justfor me, it was words, yeah.
(36:33):
And so I was just like, What isyour capacity?
Do you have the capacity?
Okay, are we realistic about it?
Well, what are we gonna do?
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Um no, I love it because I think I actually think
the phrase work-life balancekind of sets us up for failure a
little bit.
Um, because it's you're nevergonna have that equal balance.
You know what I mean?
It's just it's just notattainable.
And I think we have to kind ofreverse that phrase, figure out
a different whatever it is.
But you know, I asked thequestion to everyone who's on
(37:00):
the podcast, and it's all verydifferent frameworks of what
you've said, but all verysimilar in the sense of if
you're living this purposefuldriven life, think something is
gonna be sacrificed at differenttimes, and you just gotta figure
out prioritize or your capacityin that moment.
And that's just how that's gonnabe.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
So I guess as we kind of like wrap up here, um,
what would you say is like yourwhat does personal fulfillment
for you look out look likeoutside of May Vera wellness and
what makes Jana happy and allthose types of things?
SPEAKER_00 (37:31):
Oh, what makes me happy?
Um weirdly it is connected to mybusiness, what I will say.
I am fortunate to be in aposition where I facilitate
groups um pretty much indifferent areas right now where
people of all backgrounds, allwalks of life, um, there's that
may even be unemployed,underhouse, unskilled.
(37:53):
Every time I show up intowhichever room, I really think
that I am walking in my purposebecause I'm meeting people
exactly where they are andallowing it to be the
conversation needs to be in theway that they can digest it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
So I think I'm at a place right now where I can sit
in the boardroom and I can alsosit on the corner and have a
conversation and try to inspirechange in someone's life.
And I think that's exactly whatmy soul is supposed to be doing
right now.
I think that's my soul's purposeas of today um to be relatable,
(38:29):
to not be higher or lower oranything than anyone else, but
just what can I do to walkalongside you to make the
changes needed, that is as anindividual, as a group, as a
team, but as a wider system.
Yeah.
As well.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
How does it feel to I guess be walking in your
purpose and what you're supposedto be doing?
Like, what does that feel like?
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Peaceful.
Peaceful.
I'm not working.
Like I'm really, it's not workto me.
So, you know, yesterday I did apersonal and professional
etiquette class for teens.
I don't feel like I'm working, Ifeel like I'm at peace.
I'm just choosing things thatmake me happy, and it just feels
good.
Yeah.
And I know in the next couple ofyears it's probably gonna be a
(39:13):
really big pivot for me, andthat would just still be aligned
with what I'm supposed to bedoing.
Um, yeah, I don't think I'msupposed to be a psychologist
forever.
I think I will or just be apsychologist.
I think there's more that Imaybe didn't do because I was so
busy trying to heal this wound.
And I know the next phase of myjourney is like we did that.
(39:34):
Yeah, we healed the being girl.
I say we meaning my little girlin me, as we like we did that.
So what else can you learn?
What else can you explore?
I told you I went to universityand I didn't realize I was in
all of the classes that I wasn'tsupposed to be in.
So who knows?
It might be studying somethingelse just for myself, and yeah,
um, just being at peace withthat as well.
(39:55):
I think that's a part of my nextsteps on my journey.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah, speaking of little the little girl inside of
you, where you are now, whatwhat would you tell her?
SPEAKER_00 (40:04):
Oh, that we're gonna be all right, baby.
We are going to make it.
I'm got you.
We are fine, you are safe.
Um, you know, we're we're free.
Like I'm free and I'm living ina way that I I deserve to be
living right now.
And I I feel comfortable um withjust who I am and how I'm
(40:24):
showing up.
I've had to forgive myself,right?
And you know, and and takeresponsibility for my actions,
right?
Like, no, you responded thatway, it wasn't helpful, but
you're alright.
And so I'm letting her know weare okay.
If if things didn't go accordingto pan and finish today, like I
feel like I did the best that Icould with the life that I've
(40:47):
lived so far, and I'm proud ofit.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (40:50):
Oh, girl, this is not what we thought this was
gonna be today.
SPEAKER_00 (40:55):
But I do, I feel proud of myself.
Um and I'm far from perfect, butI do, I feel proud of the work
that I'm putting in.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
It's amazing.
So here on Hustle Heart Podcast,girl, we ask everyone as a rap,
as a final question, um, youknow, when you're no longer
here, and you know, we touch thewood when we say that, um, where
it says a long time from now,and someone says, Dr.
Jana Otterbridge or Jana andwhatever next iteration of what
you do is next, what do you wantto be remembered for when that
(41:23):
question is asked?
Or if someone says, Who did youknow, Jana?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
Yeah, so if it was as of right now, it would be
that she was inspirational andtried her best to pull into
everybody to help them to betheir best self.
Um, that would be what Iactually question looking back
on my 100th birthday.
Yeah, that's what I would wantto do.
But I think the next phase of mylife, I would like to also have
(41:47):
a financial impact, which meansI have to learn new things.
I've always avoided numbers andbut I want to be able to just
donate to different um people inneed and they never know that it
was me.
I just I that's what I think Iwant to do, and that's going to
be a lot of work for me tofigure out what that means.
I'm rich and none of this thing.
But if I can set up things whereI'm like, oh yeah, they just got
(42:10):
10 grand and I just kept walkingand it changed their life, and
no one ever had to know.
Like, if I could figure out whatthat means for me to do that,
um, and I die to zero, that'sokay.
But I made you know a positiveimpact.
That would be my hope for mynext phase of life.
Yeah, gotta get there, I'llfigure out how to make this
money.
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
It'll it'll it'll happen.
It'll happen when your heart'sin the right place, those types
of things open up, and angelinvesting is a huge space, and
you have people who do it indifferent ways as well, like
they get the money and then theyum donate it anonymously.
So you'll I'm sure you'll figureout a way to make it happen.
And I'm I am hopeful for it foryou.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's some my I thinkthat's if I died with when I did
those two things.
Um, yeah, one I'm already doingit.
Yes.
unknown (42:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:56):
So next one.
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
Well, Jana, I really, really appreciate this
conversation and I'm so gratefulto you for being open to allow
the conversation to go that way.
And I again, not what we did notplan at all at all.
Not at all.
Um, but and I hope that itresonates one with someone else,
and I hope you feel freed bythat as well.
Um, in this conversation.
(43:17):
Yeah, really appreciate youmaking me emotional, girl.
Um, I appreciate yourvulnerability um here today, and
I'm very grateful.
SPEAKER_00 (43:24):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Maybe it was just the time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah, maybe it was the time.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
I'm grateful.
Thanks.
Yes, I really appreciate it.
All right, girls, get ittogether, children.
All right, we gotta get ittogether.
All right, guys, we had theamazing Dr.
Jana Otterbridge of MadeiraWellness here with me today.
She was extremely vulnerable.
We had an open conversationabout things that we didn't plan
for, but sometimes we just gottapivot and allow the conversation
(43:48):
to go the way that it's supposedto go.
It's meant for a reason, and I'mvery grateful to her for being
open and honest with us today.
As always, thank you everybodyfor having me today.
Thank you for our 595 and it'sbeen a moment.
Thank you, thank you, thank youfor watching.
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