January 7, 2024 • 53 mins
As someone who juggles an array of hats, Tina Hostovich—Lockton Insurance's vice chair and an arts advisor appointed by President Biden—joins us to share her inspiring narrative that dances through the corridors of art, literature, and politics. Her debut book, "Welcome to the Jungle," serves as a gateway into her multifaceted life, blending a deep passion for the arts with her professional acumen. During our heart-to-heart, Tina lifts the veil on how personal rituals sustain her vibrancy, and her musical past, which underscores the rejuvenating power of the arts. Together, we traverse the landscape of her journey, from her rough-and-tumble upbringing in Los Angeles to the societal norms that women navigate daily.
Imagine the impressionable days of youth, where family stories of democracy and freedom take root and burgeon into a life dedicated to political engagement and artistic advocacy. Tina reminisces about her evolution from a politically curious college student to a seasoned participant in the political sphere, sharing anecdotes of her encounters with influential women like Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton. These interactions furthered her dedication to important causes, including healthcare reform and arts education. Our dialogue also broaches the nuanced complexities of achieving equilibrium between career ambitions and personal life, a challenge that resonates across generations in today's workforce.
Capstones of progress are not built without effort; they require the persistent chiseling away at glass ceilings. Tina's narrative is a clarion call to women striving to carve their niches in leadership roles. She candidly discusses the hurdles, from the gendered expectations of yesterday to the collaborative needs of today's workplace. Her empowerment message to young women is clear: seize control, believe in your path, and make an indelible mark. It's a conversation that's not just a reflection but an ignition of ambition, ready to spark the drive in any listener ready to hustle.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It's time for hustle her podcast.
I'm your host, deshae Keynes.
Hustle her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders we are
today.
If you're an enterprising womandetermined to succeed and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back tohustle her podcast.
Thanks so much for tuning intoday.
Big shout out to our sponsors,brown and company and 59 front.
(00:42):
However, we do have a newsponsor for our season that's
coming up, and I'll tell youmore about that as we approach
that time.
So be make sure you head overto hustle her podcastcom.
Make sure you sign up to be aVIP listener.
You can also get somebackground information about
today's guest, as well as giveus some feedback about what you
thought.
As always, super excited thatyou decided to spend some time
(01:03):
with me today, and so now we canget into it.
My next guest has an amazingresume, right, but what we are
leading with today is she is thenewest author on the block.
She has a new book that is justreleased.
It is called Welcome to thejungle.
My next guest is Tina Hostovich.
Hi, tina, hey D'Shay.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I am so excited to be with you.
First of all, I love yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Thank you, love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And for anybody who's listening, you need to sign up
for this podcast.
Thank you, and I'm just sohonored to be here with you
today.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I'm so excited, so I'm so glad that we led with.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
author right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And the book is out and we're so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We want everyone to go and get it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But you've also done some amazing things as well.
So you're also the vice chairPacific for locked in insurance,
correct.
And then you have some othertitles from the White House as
well.
So tell me a little bit aboutthis, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
President Biden appointed me this year as the as
an advisor to the arts on hisbehalf, and I specifically work
with the Kennedy Center and I'malso on their board.
So, yeah, so it's fun, it'sexciting Making a difference in
the world with with our arts.
Yes, that nourish our soulAbsolutely, in addition to our
work.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There you go, got to marry the two Exactly.
All right.
So we're going to start offwith a few questions, get the
audience to know you a littlebit better, and then we'll jump
in from there.
All right, all right, so I'mhappiest when.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm happiest when I'm with my family and it's quiet
time, which is rare.
But you know, my husband, myson or animals, and just kind of
hanging out at home and taking,and also the times when I'm by
myself and just reflecting andhaving a little quiet time.
Okay, finding some peace in aninsane world.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Love that.
Okay, tell me your favoritecolor.
Red, red, red, yeah, likebright, like strong, like
original red or like moreburgundy.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Kind of more like this almost.
But I love red.
Red too.
I have a bright red car, abright red Corvette.
Could I be more cliche?
Where's Prince when we need?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
him.
There you go, right, okay, allright, tell me a little bit
about your skincare routine.
Sure, keep the skin lookingfresh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Do you spend a lot of time on that?
Have a great dermatologist,harold Lancer, in Beverly Hills.
He's the best.
He has a product line.
It's amazing.
I drink 96 ounces of water aday.
It really makes a difference.
You do have to spend aninordinate amount of time, you
know, at the bathroom, but butyour skin is glowing and water,
(03:33):
truly, truly is the mostnourishing thing, I also try to
do a protein based.
A more plant protein based dietis better for your skin.
And then I use Korean skinskincare products.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I've heard about this recently.
Yeah, glass skin.
Yes, but I do.
Yeah, I do, lazy girl, koreanskincare because, there's like
45 products right If you do itright.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I just do the key ones and I've had friends advise
me and then I've done trial anderror.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You know, and that's my best advice to women, If you
want to try something, try it.
Yeah, see if you like it.
If you don't like it, don't buyit again.
But you have to try differentthings.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, exactly so okay, so that was a sunblock.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, no matter what your complexion type you need,
you need sunblock.
You need sunblock skin canceris not our friend.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
No, not at all.
So you make sure you get someblock, and I agree with you.
I've incorporated into mine aswell.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
All right, so tell me , do you have a hidden talent?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I used to write songs .
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was in a band.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Really, in high school I was the drummer In a
drummer.
Yes, because is there anyonecooler than the drummer?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
No, no one's more than the drummer.
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
At least that was the extensive logic.
I used to make that decision.
Plus, I had no musical talent.
I tried everything else.
I tried piano, I tried violin,I tried cello, I tried flute
zero talent, but boy, the drums.
I found my home found my homeand so I was in a band and then
(05:07):
I would, I wrote some songs andwe sold a demo album and yeah,
that went really far, as you cantell, but it was.
But it was an adventure and Ithink life should be an
adventure.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Right At all times.
You should be able to dowhatever you want to do whenever
you want to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, you should.
I like that.
You probably can.
It doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It doesn't happen, it rarely happens, but sometimes
we do these things that weshould just do them, and that's
completely fine yeah but weshould seek the extraordinary in
our lives.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You're only here once , and during the pandemic I had
some health challenges.
I had stage three cancer and astroke, and I'm alive.
And so I really had a chance toreflect when the world slowed
down about.
Oh my God, I must die twice.
And I'm here.
And now what?
What am I here for?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Why am I here?
What do I want?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
to accomplish.
This is not a dress rehearsal.
We're not coming backnecessarily.
We don't know.
So I think you should seek theextraordinary in your life
whenever you can.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, okay, I love that .
Tell me who's your closestfriend.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Her name is Linda.
We went to high school together.
I went to high school in Japan.
I was one of those wildchildren, obviously being the
drummer in a band.
What was your first clue, right?
So, in any event, I went to highschool in Japan.
It was an exchange program andI begged my parents to let me go
and I lived with Linda and herfamily, so her parents were a
(06:26):
second set of parents for me.
Her mom was Japanese and herfather was American military,
and she lives in NorthernCalifornia.
I just spent Thanksgiving withher, so we've been friends since
10th grade.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Wow, that's really cool.
Like sometimes you have theselifelong friends, but not
everyone has the lifelongfriends like that, so you got to
cherish them.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I'm still friends with my best friend from
kindergarten.
Sylvia my best friend frommiddle school, Paula, and my
best friend from high school,Linda.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Wow, that's amazing.
I love that for you.
Okay, so you spend a lot oftime on planes.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I feel like every time we've communicated,
recently you're like I've beenon a plane.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So tell me about what you like to do when you're on a
plane.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, I you know.
As you know, being on a planeis not the most relaxing, you
know, fun expenditure of yourtime, right, but you got to do
it or you never go anywhere.
So I've tried to find littlerituals.
So it's interesting that youask that things that keep me
centered particularly on longflights.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, get restless.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, so I always have two or three books with me
that I've been meaning to, onefor fun and two nonfiction you
know.
So I, I get a little educationand I get a little, you know,
grit and a little gossip and allthat.
And then I try to watch a movie, okay yeah, and I try to sleep.
But I, when I was younger, Icould sleep anywhere but no
(07:46):
longer so I tend to not sleep onplanes anymore but, I, get a
lot of movies in.
And then you know I worked onthe book on planes.
I did a lot of the book onplanes I did that and get up at
430 am every morning and rightfor two hours before the day
begins and everybody's lookingfor you.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right so.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I did that and I wrote on planes so lots of
planes.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Oh yeah, so tell me your favorite movie.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
My favorite movie of all time is Casablanca.
Other two, Casablanca and Jimmy, the Jimmy Stewart Christmas
movie.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Okay, so okay.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It's a wonderful life .
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, it's a wonderful life.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I couldn't think of the name either.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Okay, there you go.
Very nice, okay.
And then lastly, this like Ikeep telling everyone, it's
become a thing on the podcast,right, so everyone's for a while
now, who is your celebritycrush?
Or was Keanu?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Reeves.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh, I met him.
You met him.
Yes, oh, I love that.
He's lovely, okay, he's lovely.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So I was in.
I used to work in Century City,which is near Beverly Hills,
just for geography, but it'ssort of this was Beverly Hills
adjacent, it was Toys R Us.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So I went in because my son had a birthday party
coming up and he and all hisbuddies wanted matrix toys right
, it's when the first one cameout because my son is 27 now, so
he was.
This was a long time ago.
It was the first matrix.
So I'm in the store.
I have two matrix figurines,one for my son, one for my
godson.
I get in line.
(09:16):
I look up it's Keanu Reeves,I'm not kidding with his sister.
That's so cool.
With his sister and he said, oh,do you want me to sign those?
That's cool, that's really cool.
So, he's a lovely human beingand I admire that very much.
And you hear all the Keanustories.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, that's really cool.
I mean talk about a cool giftfor your son and girlfriend
right.
Like just happened to be in thestore at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's such a random, incredible thing, yeah love it.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
OK, so tell me about Little Tina.
What did Little Tina want to be?
What did she like to do overher sports?
The different things she wasinto.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Sure, one of the things that I talk about a
little bit in the book is I wasalways a storyteller, because I
grew up in an area of LosAngeles that was a little
rougher than some and mygrandparents came over from the
old country, so my family has avery strong attachment to
democracy and freedom whichwe'll talk about later.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
But my grandparents came here to escape the Russians
and the communists coming toCzechoslovakia, where they were,
and my mother's family cameover during the potato famine
for Ireland.
But in both cases there wasthis strong belief in building a
new life, and so I grew up witha lot of this conversation
(10:38):
around you can be who you wantto be, you can do whatever you
want.
At the same time, we were ofmodest means and we lived in a
very rough neighborhood in Los.
Angeles.
But I feel very blessed to havegrown up there because I
learned so much about differentpeople and different cultures
and how to get along with peopleand so my story which I tell in
(10:58):
the book.
But I'll share with you, if Imay.
So in elementary school it waskind of rough on the playground
at recess right and recess isalways such a mind-bill right
For sure.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's like who can make it up?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, and I think even in corporate America and as
you become an adult you're sortof doomed to repeat recess,
right and the playground.
So there were some women, youngwomen, girls at the time, I
guess, because they were 12, 11,12, so girls and they would
(11:32):
beat up other girls that theydidn't care for or didn't like
or had an issue with.
So I was other in thatneighborhood.
I was like the only blonde kid,the only you know all that.
So I decided that rather thantry to learn self-defense in 24
hours, which was a thought yeah,of course that maybe I could
(11:55):
just tell a story.
So what I did is I told thegirls I'll tell you what.
Let's go in this corner of theplayground.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I'm going to tell you guys a story and then, if you
like it, don't hit me.
Yeah, again.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Don't stab me, don't hit me.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And so the first day there were like six girls and
the next day there were morepeople and more people.
So it came to where I had alittle story group of about 50
or 60 people every day, fivedays a week, and it was
Shahirazad, you know, if you'refamiliar with the Arabian night
sale she told the story everynight so she wouldn't be
executed by her husband, theking.
(12:34):
So that's what I did every dayso I wouldn't be executed.
So, I was a storyteller, so Iwas always looking and I was
always interested.
And when I was growing updifferently because I'm a little
older than you are womenweren't encouraged to do a lot
of things that were encouragedto do now my parents were
(12:54):
incredibly supportive.
They were like, do whatever youwant, you don't need anything,
hold you back.
You need to get an education,you need to build a career, you
need to take it seriously.
But the general mindset was youneed to find a man and get
married and make sure you'reprovided for, which I'm sure to
you sounds insane and ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
No, but I mean, people still think that way
right.
And you know it's not as common, but you'd be very surprised.
I mean, people still think thatway and you know, at my age now
, people still look at me andare like you're not married or
are you married?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
or do you have any kids?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And so it still is there, and they look at you
almost with pity, because yourlife isn't fulfilled, because
you don't have this.
You actually have to have abetter life.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I'm sorry, take that out.
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
But it still happened , so sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, no, no, no, please.
I wanted this to be.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Not as over does it used to be, in the past where it
was like you know, you betterget married.
It was like marriage or school.
It wasn't that bad, but itdefinitely is still very oh.
She doesn't have a man, youknow, or?
You don't have any children, sohow could you really enjoy life
?
Like your life has no meaningthat that that the most is
actually more insulting than theman part of it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, no, you're right, you're right, and and the
world has changed.
And women are fifty threepercent of the workforce now and
they're fifty one percent ofmed school and law school
graduates, I mean the world haschanged, and yet society hasn't
changed.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
We still look at it in the sense of you know she is.
She is not complete, you knowwithout a husband and a family.
It's it's true, that is alittle bit shocking.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I mean I tried really hard to make it so you didn't
have to put up with that.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But I did.
I did Trust me.
I totally appreciate it, but itis still a thing.
I read this thing online a fewyears ago and it's become really
popular now.
But it was a girl who ran.
She was the story online.
It's become a meme now and itbasically was like she ran into
her ex and he was like, oh, isit Mrs whatever?
(15:00):
And she was like, actually no,it's doctor, right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And so I was like love it right, love it Like no,
how about?
Who cares about that portion ofit?
Yeah, it's a real love event,totally irrelevant, yeah, and
yet we're losing a generation ofyoung men, because young women
are actually doing better thanyoung men right now.
So we're in kind of a weirdinflection point in my opinion
(15:24):
and the opinion of others.
There's Scott Galloway, who isin charge of the Stern School at
NYU and is a famous speaker,philosopher, commentator on
society.
He's written some books anddone a lot of talks.
Young men are getting lostbecause they feel like all the
opportunities are going to youngwomen.
(15:44):
And it's so bitterly ironic forme because number one that's
not totally true and it's such aweird reversal but also as the
mother of a young son.
I think 2 plus 2 can equal 5.
If men and women or however youidentify can work together more
effectively, we can make 5 outof 4 or 10.
(16:06):
But if we don't all worktogether and collaborate we're
losing some things.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's the truth.
So obviously, I work in the DEIspace and so many times we have
these conversations with people, which it gets a little
frustrating and we see it in agender space as well.
It's just because we'rehighlighting and showcasing some
of the things that are where acertain group of people are
being disenfranchised or theyare not being supported in a way
(16:35):
does not take away from whatyou have been given or have been
provided for all this time it'sjust highlighting that there
have been some inequalities andthat is the reality of that
situation.
And I think it goes fromracially, gender-wise, even from
an ageist perspective,disability, all of those things.
And it doesn't necessarily meanjust because I'm a black woman
(16:58):
that you don't haveopportunities because you're a
white woman.
I'm not taking them away fromyou.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Everyone can eat.
We can all and we can make eachother better.
Exactly, we can help each otherunderstand, because you don't
know what you don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
No, not at all, and unless somebody shares their
journey with you.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Their experience you'll never know.
And you'll always think, oh,that's kind of weird, or they're
very whatever like an adjectiveright.
Because you don't know and youneed to get to know people and
talk to them so that youunderstand.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, especially for you, judge right as well, like
you've always got to get to knowsomeone, so that's definitely
important and I totally agreewith you on that.
But I guess so you're in schooland you've made all the
lunchtime stories.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, made all the lunchtime stories I've ever
wanted to love you.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So from that, what did you?
Go into university to study.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I was a film student.
Back to the storytelling theme,right.
So I was a film student at USCand my mother was dying of
cancer and so I wasn't able tohave a traditional I could have,
but I didn't have a traditionalcollege experience because my
father and mother talked to meand the money that we needed for
(18:13):
my mom's treatment because thiswas the 80s- and chemotherapy
wasn't covered and MRIs weren'tcovered.
All the treatment for cancer.
None of those things werecovered by insurance back in the
day Because they were new andnobody knew Seemed experimental
then, exactly.
So in order to get thetreatment to try to keep my mom
alive, we needed to use alltheir savings, and that savings
(18:37):
had been earmarked for mycollege.
So what I did is I got a job ininsurance and I thought, well,
I'll put myself through collegeand then I can help my dad take
care of my mom and hopefully wecan keep her alive and I can put
myself through college.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So OK, so will you start a career in insurance when
?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I started at Inoue Masanaka, which is a Japanese
brokerage firm that became MarshJapan.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's so crazy, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And because I had gone to high school in Japan and
spoke Japanese.
I don't anymore like I did then.
I was younger and it was morerecent.
But, I did, and so they wantedsomeone with Western looks and
the command of the language andjust basic skills to be nice to
people when they come in, sothat was my first job.
(19:27):
I was a receptionist at.
Inoue Masanaka, which becameMarsh Japan, and then I left and
went to Johnson and Higginsafter two years and stayed there
until the sale to Marsh, toMarsh again.
Marsh again.
All roads seemed to lead Backto Marsh.
So then I had a contract.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I had to stay.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I stayed, and then I decided to make a change.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's so crazy.
I mean, the world is so small.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It is so small.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
How we connected and then come to find out that you
worked at Marsh and I now workat Marsh.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
It's so crazy, it's a very small world, very small
world.
And now you're the vice chairfor Pacific for Lockton
Insurance.
So what does that entail?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So we have 1,000 people in the Pacific, all
California pretty much, and wehave the most diverse group
because California we're thefourth largest economy in the
world In the world thank you,Gavin and I have to say that.
And also thank you.
We're very diverse, which ispart of our, I think, part of
(20:30):
the richness of California.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, I like California.
It's definitely a traffic.
It's definitely a traffic.
I'm not going to defend thetraffic, I mean ever.
It's terrible yeah yeah, yeah,laura likes California too, all
right, Anytime you want to comevisit yeah.
Come on down.
Yeah, come on down Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So anyway, so, yeah, so during the pandemic
particularly and I'm sure youexperienced it we wanted to make
sure everyone was okayemotionally, in addition to so
that's part of my responsibilitylike just making sure
everybody's okay.
Like, do they, do they havefood issues?
Where they're safety challenges, you know, where their mental
health challenges?
You know?
(21:10):
In our DEI DEIA we've added nowit is we approach all those
issues and we try to reallyfocus on that during the
pandemic.
That's one of my bigresponsibilities, big
philanthropy how can we usemoney that you give to not to
just do good but to make it makesense business wise as well?
(21:31):
And then I'm I do governmentrelations and then I have a book
of business, of clients that Ilove and take care of.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, so before we get into the book, because
that's what we want to talkabout, but before we get into
the book, one of the things thatI noticed when you sent me the
cover is that someone who gave areview on the book was
Secretary Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, now there's not every daythat, you know, hillary Clinton
can give a comment on a book andyou can put it on your book.
(21:59):
So, before we get into the booka bit more, walk me through how
you got into, kind of like, thepolitical arena and then we're
able to have this builderrelationship that she felt was a
allow you to, you know, reviewyour book.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Thank you, thank you.
So I actually had dinner withher on Monday in DC.
So I came here for the via DC.
So I have been involved in,I've always been interested in
politics and I lived in DC whenI so I went to the University of
Maryland briefly before I wentto USC and so when I lived when
(22:33):
I went to the University ofMaryland, I was very interested
in politics.
Because you're right there inthe backyard- right of DC.
And.
But I didn't pursue it becauseI was building a career.
I was young, I didn't have alot of experience, I didn't
think I had a lot to offer, butI was fascinated by it.
I was fascinated by the process, I was fascinated by the
(22:54):
history, all those things rightand growing up.
The Kennedys were a biginfluence on me, as they were a
lot of people of my generation,and Jackie Kennedy in particular
was an influence because shewas a woman who took a very
cliche, prescribed role and madeit very unique and incredibly
(23:15):
valuable and she was probably aspopular and charismatic as JFK.
So she did some amazing thingsand I actually belong to the
White House HistoricalAssociation now which she
founded.
That was her vision.
She said this is the people'shouse.
Let's make it.
Let's make it look pretty.
There you go Fix it up, so soanyway, so I've always been
(23:37):
interested and involved andwatching and but I didn't really
have the opportunity to doanything until a friend of mine
said, hey, this friend of minethat I've known forever is
running for president.
I'm like, oh, that's cute.
Was Barack Obama?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, super cute, yeah.
So I went to an event and I metMichelle Obama and Dr Biden at
that, so I met both of them atthe same time, and I was
chatting with Dr Biden aboutcommunity colleges and the
education model in the UnitedStates, and then I had the
opportunity to talk to theamazing Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Amazing.
Yeah, it is incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I can't say anything, Everything everybody thinks is
true.
She is extraordinary.
And so we were chatting and atthese events, if you chat with
one of the principles longerthan three minutes, it's like a
lifetime, right, it's like dogyears.
So we talked for 15 minutes.
I thought, oh my God, they'regoing to throw me out.
But at the end of it she turnedto me and said you know, we
(24:43):
need you off the sidelines andon the field.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So you're going to do that right.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yes, ma'am, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What do you say to Michelle Obama?
Yeah, no, I'm good.
Thanks, michelle.
No, not at all yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So I just said, of course.
I am Of course I am, and soafter that and then I was a fan
of the Clintons.
From when he was a kid, I waspresident and my parents really
admired the Clintons and theywere both still alive when he
was president.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
My mom passed away after that.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
But my dad passed away too.
But I always admired them but Ididn't know them and I wasn't
part of that circle.
So when she was Secretary ofState and I was working for
Michelle and Barack, I was atthe White House and I got to
meet Secretary Clinton and I wasso fangirl, I was so fangirl.
(25:38):
And I was that way withMichelle Obama and then Hillary
Clinton.
So when I spoke to SecretaryClinton for the first time, it
was just such a lovelyconversation and we took a
picture.
And then, the next thing I know, about three months later,
someone in her circle reachedout to me and said they were
(25:58):
doing an event for the ClintonFoundation and that Secretary
Clinton thought I might beinterested in getting involved.
So I got involved in theClinton Foundation then and also
working for the Obama's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So what did you do for the Obama's during their
time in office?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So there was a there's a advisory group called
Presidential Partners and it'swhere you commit to raise money,
support it and participate inkey issues.
My issue that I asked to beinvolved with and I asked to be
allowed to work on was thehealthcare reform, Because I saw
(26:36):
what that did to my family nothaving money for medical bills
and I see what happens to otherpeople and in the US, and I
think you have more of theBritish system here, yeah, see,
and so, and we don't, as youknow and we don't have a safety
net really.
So Secretary Clinton actuallytried to get something similar
(26:59):
when she was the first lady, butshe got so much hate.
Right People are like why isthat first lady trying to?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
do it, yeah, anyway, so that's I think it's a vanity
kind of position as opposed toreal work being done.
Right, and it was real work,but people didn't want to hear
it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
So finally Barack Obama wasable to get it passed, and Nancy
Pelosi was hugely instrumentalin getting the support.
But to me, that was my passion.
I didn't want people to have tochoose between food and
medicine.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, and I think that's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I don't want anybody we should not be having to
choose.
I'm not going to eat today orpay for my medication.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Right and healthcare is not it is a human right.
Healthcare is a human right100%.
It's not a luxury or good.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, no one is self-inflicting some of the
things that happen to people onthemselves.
You know what I mean.
So being able to have basiccare is-.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Absolutely, and if you don't have it, you're going
to get sick or Exactly.
Because then you're going tohave to rely on the emergency
room as your primary carephysician.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And it just goes down hell from there Absolutely,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And so okay, so, and then sorry.
And then now in the Bidenadministration, you have a role
there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yes, the advisory council to the arts.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
The President Biden recently appointed you on that
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yes, he did in May.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Mm-hmm, nice and how and what does that-?
What does that actually?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
entail.
So there's meetings, and sorecently there was an event at
the White House where we did thepremium laureate awards in
conjunction with the governmentof Japan.
Got it, and so I have theopportunity, as part of this
advisory group, to be involvedwith other countries and their
arts programs, which I findfascinating, yeah, and this in
(28:45):
particular since I went to highschool in Japan.
Dr Biden thought I might beinterested in participating
Absolutely, and SecretaryClinton this is her event
because she introduced it whenshe was first lady Nice.
So I recently got to do that.
I went earlier this year whenBruce Springsteen and Amy Tang
and some other oh I love itfolks got the medal for
(29:06):
Humanities and the.
Arts and so you know, just beingpart of it and being in
meetings and having theconversation as a nation.
What should we-, what shouldthe role of our arts be?
How can it support our citizensand how do we make it
accessible for everyone?
I think those are thechallenges, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And that's really good work as well you know yeah.
And sometimes when you hear youknow White House and committees
and these types of things wethink we don't necessarily
always think of the arts.
I think that that's a reallygood kind of way to get that out
there, and it's good thatthey're doing that and
continuing the work from.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Hillary.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Clinton Secretary, Clinton as well.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's so important.
Yeah, absolutely, you're in thearts as well as an insurance.
I mean, I guess I guess we cancall this the arts, I don't know
, you're filmmaking, I don'tknow I realize heavily, laura,
you're filmmaking team.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, we will leave that one.
I won't claim that one too much.
I wish I could claim that partof it.
But you know, that side of itwe definitely leave to LDS.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
It's all good, all right, so you wrote this book,
and so you started to write itduring the pandemic, right?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, I started to write it this year, this year,
yeah, I work up New Year's Dayand I said, okay, so I'm
cancer-free two years.
Wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Congratulations.
Thank you Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I was treated at the city of hope, which is a
phenomenal.
It's where my mom died, but itis a phenomenal institution and
this is 30 years later and itwas phenomenal the treatment and
then, of course, and then thestroke and then trying to get my
arms around the job and theglobal pandemic and everything
that was going on.
But I woke up New Year's Dayand I thought I'm here for a
(30:52):
reason.
I didn't die twice.
So what is it that I think Istill need to do?
And I decided that when I wasyoung, if I had had a book that
was like an honest friendtalking to me, giving me advice,
saying no, don't do that, it'sreally stupid.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Here's why.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, but do this, and here's why it's a really
good thing.
You know, just like somebodythat you would trust, who has
your best interest at heart.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
If I had had a guide, it would have changed my world.
So I thought I can write whatI've learned.
Even if it only helps a couplepeople, maybe it'll make a
difference for women inparticular.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I've wrote it for young men as well, but it's
focused my lived experiences asa woman, yeah, and as a woman,
absolutely, and I think that'srelatable as well.
We should all have targetmarkets, but that doesn't mean
that it isn't for anyone else.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That is exclusive.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So the book is entitled Welcome to the Jungle,
my.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Journey from the Reception Desk to Sea Sweets.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, so started the reception desk and then you
ended up in the sea sweepposition.
So I mean, obviously the bookgives us a lot of good advice
and how to do that and what todo, what not to do.
But in your career, like whatwould you say was, I guess, the
best thing you did to advanceyour career?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It's really hard to not be afraid.
It's really hard and to takerisks and through other women
really, and in the beginning ofmy career, other women were the
enemy, you know, because therewasn't a lot of camaraderie and
support.
It was.
There were only going to be twowomen and there's five of you.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
It was that, because, god knows, we need a quote oh my God, we
couldn't have more than twowomen.
We can't have three.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
My God, the world would come to an end and the sun
won't come up in the morning.
So but I did over time, otherwomen that.
I watched and that I didrespect mostly clients frankly
because colleagues weren't assupportive in the beginning as
they are now, but back then theyweren't.
But clients, there were womenat clients and one of them said
(33:06):
to me don't ask, don't get.
And I thought, well, no,because they'll just tell me no.
And they did tell me no, butyou just keep asking but, you
have to learn to do that.
So I think I would.
If I were writing a letter tomy younger self.
I would give myself permissionto ask for more and I would
understand that I have the rightto expect more, even if other
(33:29):
people don't think I do.
And I tried to keep that pointof view.
But it's hard.
It's hard when, when you're oneof the first ones and
everybody's telling you no andeverybody's telling you go away.
And you know, I still havethose experiences.
I was at an event last week andyou know when people talk to
(33:51):
you and they're being verydismissive and you can see
they've looked at you andthey've made a judgment.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And then they start looking for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Okay, she's this, this and this, and, but they
don't know you.
They don't know anything aboutyou, but they make those
decisions and so you're alwaysgoing to have that.
You're always going to havepeople who think that whatever
you're doing is wrong.
Don't worry about other peopleAbsolutely.
If you've spent your lifetrying to make other people
happy and please other people,you will never be happy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I think that's really difficult for women,
though it's very well, pleasers?
Yeah, we're pleasers.
And then also back to yourpoint in the beginning, around,
you know, we were also.
A lot of people were raised towant to be married and to be a
mom.
And those I don't want to sayjobs, but those I guess
positions that you kind of haveare also very much serving of
(34:44):
other people, traditionallyRight.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So and you end up being the last person on the
list that you kind of look afterwith that.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Very much so.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So it's very difficult to not do that,
especially when you become a mom.
I assume yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And that and that is a hard and that's my second book
is going to do so.
The first book is maybe thefirst 20 years of your career
and how to get set up and how tothink about your life and how
to make sure you don't end upwith a life that wasn't what you
intended to create.
Got it, you know, yeah, JohnLennon has a great line from one
of his songs life is whathappens to you while you're busy
making other plans, and thatcan.
(35:21):
That happens for most people.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
And you have to be very intentional in order to not
let that happen to you.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
And when you start having children or start having
more traditionalresponsibilities, everybody
starts to dismiss you again, andso you have to fight to not get
ignored and you have to be ableto do so.
It's kind of like, well, youcan take care of your kids, but
that's your hobby.
Now we still expect the samethings.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Gotcha.
So how do you, what advice doyou give to fight that?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
You have to.
You just have to be flexible,you have to be willing to
compromise.
You're never going to be able togive 100% to anything, but you
can.
Sometimes you can give 110 overhere and sometimes you can give
50 and sometimes you can give30.
You just have to learn and youlearn by trial and error and you
know and you do your very, verybest, absolutely Hearts in the
(36:14):
right place.
I mean, I wanted my son to betaken care of and be happy.
I wanted my husband to be happy.
I wanted my boss to be happy,my client, you know, we want
everybody to be happy, right.
But in order to accomplish that, sometimes we have to take a
back seat.
But you have to remind yourselfagain back to that it's not a
dress rehearsal and you do haveto make your family your
(36:38):
priority sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Sometimes it has to be you too.
They're not mutually exclusive.
We are capable of doing morethan one behavior and holding
more than one thought.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Absolutely, of course .
It's definitely something thatwe can do, and I think we have
to, as women, embrace that aswell, right?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So this idea of having a perfect work-life
balance, like what do you thinkabout that?
It's not possible.
Yeah, it's not possible, and Ilove that we're finally there
right.
Because it was such a buzz termand phrase for so long.
You got to get your work-lifebalance in check and this, that
and the other, and you know, gotto spend more time at home and
get it perfectly balanced.
(37:17):
But that is so not possible.
It will never be perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
You'll never be perfect.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, and then you'll be crazy.
Yeah, and then you really needsome balance, like a different
type of balance, right?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And then you might end up, you know, with some
comfort rituals like drinking orother things that are not good.
Exactly, you don't want that.
No, you don't want that.
And then that leads down to adifferent you know road, Then
you have a whole different setof problems.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, definitely.
So, when you were writing thebook right and you were like,
what are some of the key thingsyou wanted to convey, yes, like,
tell me some of those things.
Well, give it to me too much,because we want you guys to go
and get the book right.
So give me some of the keythings you wanted you want
readers to take away from thebook that they can kind of you
know, wet the whistle a littlebit.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Thank you.
That's what I'm going to talkabout your intention, setting
your intention and always beingin that place and everything you
do, and so I talk about somepretty straightforward things
like you know how you shouldinteract with human resources as
an example, because it's alittle different than what you
(38:23):
might think from the outside.
I also talk about IT.
You want to make friends withthe people who fix your computer
.
Got that right and you'restranded and you're 10 hours
ahead on the other side of theworld, so you know some really
basic stuff like that.
But I also talk about moments inyour life where let's say that
(38:43):
you're the student and you havea mentor and it's great and it's
been a great relationship, butthen, as time goes on, you
become the master.
How do you handle thattransition that can change your
relationship and shake up somethings?
I talk about that.
I talk about you know yourbehavior and what's and I'm just
really honest because I knowpeople, particularly my son's
(39:08):
generation.
They're like we don't want allyour rules.
I'm not giving you rules.
I'm telling you how people willview you.
It's your choice.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And here's the thing.
I say that at work as well,especially with our younger
generations.
So we have Gen Z years arecoming into the workforce.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, my son is Gen Z .
They're kicking the door stone.
Right there they are.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And here's the thing, and I actually appreciate their
views on life and I appreciatewhat they bring to their table.
They love to balance theirpersonal time and they're not
workaholics like what we weretaught to be as millennials and
our parents.
You know, it wasn't like that.
But what they do not, I think,factor in is that Generation X,
(39:47):
as well as our boomers, arestill in the workforce.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right, we have four generations now.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Four generations in the workforce now and they still
work in a specific way and moretimes than not and not all the
time, but more times than notare late, late bloom boomers, I
should say.
And then our more senior, youknow, generation X, are the ones
in the leadership positions.
So, while you have this outlookon life, that is different and
(40:15):
I respect it as a millennia theydon't.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
And you have to play the game sometimes in order to
get ahead.
So I think that that's very,very good advice, that what
you're saying there, because noteveryone looks at it that way.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
No, you're right, and it's a big challenge.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, the multi-generational workforce,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
And it's even a challenge on college campuses
right now.
There are so many issues thatdivide us in the United States,
and a big one right now,obviously, it's the war in
Ukraine and the war in Israel.
Yeah, gaza.
So there's a lot of conflict inAmerica, there's a lot of
conflict on college campuses andthere's a lot of different
feelings from generations andthere's and I do respect Gen Z
(40:59):
and I do agree what I appreciateis that, having been sort of
having come up in the corporateworld, which felt like being
raised by a British nanny Right,keep calm, carry on, stiff
upper lip, I don't want to hearit.
Just do your job, work, work,work, just carry on Fine.
(41:23):
But I appreciate that theyquestion things which we weren't
really taught to do.
No, we were discouraged.
I'm a boomer, so especially me.
Millennials had a little moreleeway.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
maybe we did have a bit more leeway, I think, with
that, but we were raised bygenerations you were raised by
boomers.
Yeah boomers and somegeneration acts, depending on
where they kind of fall, wherethe work life balance, part of
it, when we want to use thatterm, is more on the work side.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It like we were still kind of the evolution of what
our parents wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
We were a little bit more spoiled.
We got the things that ourparents didn't have.
Like you know, our parentsmight have gotten a full right
to university, but for us it wasthey might have paid or it
might have been a combination.
Yes, Whereas these Gen Zers andI say these Gen Zers because
they're my younger siblings- butthese Gen Zers, it's a
completely different kind ofenvironment that they were
brought into.
I think they're spoon fed a lotmore than we, a lot of
(42:22):
different generations, were.
And I think that it's okay tosome extent.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Because I think that shows the evolution of where a
lot of different you knowhouseholds are now Right Right,
which is good.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It is good.
It is good.
The problem is because we'renot talking to each other.
There's a lot of misunderstand.
Yeah, for sure so you haveboomers saying oh, this is lazy
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
They say that about us as millennials, for sure yeah
.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And yet.
And then my son is like boomers, you ruined the planet.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
You know, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
But at the same time, we're about to witness the
largest transfer of wealth inhistory as boomers die, I mean
so millennials and Gen Zers aregoing to be raking it in.
Yeah, that's true and I knowit's kind of feel like quit,
quit, trashing me for wreckingthe planet when you're going to
inherit it.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
But that's not the point, and the point is we just
need to understand each other.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I do agree.
And to your point about theearning part of it, I was
reading something the other day,I can't remember where, and it
was saying that Gen Zers areprobably going to be the first
generation to not out earn theirparents.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Wow, I did not know that.
Yeah, I can't remember where itwas.
It makes sense when you thinkabout it, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And I need to remember where I found that for
so I can put a little you knowsub underneath to give whoever
wrote that credit.
But I remember reading it and Iwas like that actually makes
sense, because for so longgenerations were doing better
than their parents.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Correct, and that was the goal.
Yeah, every generation's goalwas, you know, have your
children do better than you did.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what you kind of wanted.
So it was the first generationto go to university, and then it
was the next to be doctors andlawyers and all those types of
things.
And now we're changing the gameand you're giving everyone this
amazing advice for thebeginning parts of their career,
right, yeah, I love this somuch, so you have a point here.
In welcome to the jungle,you'll discover how to lay the
(44:21):
foundation for a successfulcareer and life, right?
So what?
What?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
is the life part of it.
The life part is you know it'sso easy we were talking about it
, about the balance being on thework side more so.
Only you can make you happy,right?
Only you know what you want,only you know what your dreams
are.
I could tell you I think youshould do this and you'd be like
, yeah, thanks, good.
But or maybe you'll say, oh,that's interesting, but the
(44:49):
point is you have to build yourown life.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, it is your responsibility.
Yeah, absolutely, that's whathappens to you it can be.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It can be, and I've been in that situation where
I've had years where life is allabout what's happening to me,
not what.
I'm doing not what I'm gettingout of my life, but but that
should be the exception,absolutely, and you have to work
at it.
And so I talk about that Planyour life.
What do you want?
You asked the question earlierwhen are you you're happiest?
(45:18):
You need to incorporate that,because if you build this
fabulous life but you're nothappy, what have you got?
What do you have?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, I mean the thing is it depends on what
makes you happy, too right,because some people say money
don't buy happiness, but thething about it is Well there's a
money helps, well there's a.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
there's a threshold.
Yeah, they've done studies.
There's an amount of money thatdoes make you happy and
everything in advance of that inexcess of that it doesn't make
you.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, gotcha, so it's that what's that number I?
Don't know and we don't know,and it's got to be different for
everyone, cause one is relativeto one how much you earn, right
, right, how much you make, andthen what you can and cannot
afford based on that earning.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah, and what your spending habits are right,
absolutely.
Some people love to do fabuloustrips and vacations and some
people don't.
Yeah, some people have a moremodest life, but they're happy.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, so it's those things right.
And it's different for everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Everybody has a different number, but there is a
number.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, so you're a woman in leadership right.
And I think we have to takeinto account the female, that
you are a female, you're a womanand with that, what are some of
the things that you would saywere very different for you, in
kind of the matriculation ofyour career?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
There were expectations in the beginning of
my career, like when I've gotmy first job.
They said, oh, and, by the way,you have to clean the bathroom,
no kidding, you have to makecoffee, you have to wash the
dishes, the bathroom of thepresident of the company.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Gosh, but his own bathroom.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
I've aspired to that my whole career.
I don't have one.
What?
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I don't think I'm ever going to get one.
They make offices differentnowadays right, I know.
I'm like I'm not going to getone.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
But anyway, but he had one, so I so, though I had
to feed his fish like he hadsome weird.
So, in addition to work, inaddition to certificates of
insurance, in addition to typingmemos or whatever the
assignment was you had to dothat.
So it's kind of like well,you're a woman, but you're the
help, like if they're, let letthere not be any confusion in
(47:20):
your mind, honey, you're thehelp and you, you need to
remember that.
And so that was like oh, causeI wasn't raised like that.
My parents were like what do youthink?
Should we do this?
Do you want to do?
You know, they weren't like,yeah, they didn't make me feel
like I should be raised to be aservant, absolutely yeah.
So there was that, and obviouslythe sexual harassment the me
(47:44):
too.
You know we could make a movieabout that stuff, but it was
really bad back in the day.
It hasn't gone away, though.
I mean Jeffrey Epstein died in2019.
I know they're stilltrafficking, there's still abuse
, there's still things thathappen to me that I'm shocked by
.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, to this day.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
To this day.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, it's crazy when you look back at like your
career and all these things thathave happened right and we say
you know, we still have to saylike the first woman to do this,
or the first this or the firstthat or whatever.
Why do you feel like we'reconstantly breaking these glass
ceilings?
As women like constantly havingto shatter this first thing all
over again?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
All the time Because no one wants to give up power.
Right, it's the truth.
That's why incumbent presidentsrun for reelection, no matter
what I mean.
Power is is the ultimate drugin so many ways, yep, and so the
people that hold the power orhave historically held the power
, the cliche old white dudesright Yep.
(48:47):
They've historically held thepower, so they're not going to
just say, okay, you're right,it's your turn.
Yeah, if you have a lot ofpower, you're not going to
willingly, just here you go.
Let me know how it goes.
Yeah, you're going to be likewell, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So, as women, we've just come to the table where
we're over 50% right.
Over 50% in the workforce, over50% of doctors, lawyers, indian
chiefs, you know, astronauts,whatever the case may be, we're
there, we're at a critical mass,but we're still trying.
(49:25):
We're still having to say butyou're right, the first one, the
second woman the third woman.
Whatever, I think 10 years fromnow that won't be as strong, but
I think in the meantime we needto find a way for genders to
work together more effectivelyfor the younger people, because
(49:45):
they don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah, so if a young woman takes your book and she's
reading it, what is somethingthat you would want her to get
from this so that she isn'tfeeling like she's continuing to
have to break the glass ceiling?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I want her to believe it, to understand that she can
believe in herself and thatbuilding the career is within
her control.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
This isn't.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
You can.
It's hard.
Sometimes there are momentswhen you're like I don't know if
I can do this.
It's just too hard and toofrustrating and too upsetting or
too hurtful or name anadjective but you have the
control.
You can make it happen as muchas you possibly can.
(50:30):
You don't have control overeverything.
So I want young women to knowthis is your journey, this is
your life this is your career.
These are some things that willhelp you think about what that
looks like in 20 years and iswhat it looks like in 20 years
going to be what you aredreaming of?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
now, absolutely Wow.
We're almost at time.
This is crazy Wow.
I went by so fast, I know ithappens all the time, and when I
get the signal from, I'm like,oh my gosh, I'm scrambling to
make sure I've gotten everythingtogether, but no, I think the
cool thing about doing episodesabout this is learning about you
.
Yes, but also with the book it'slike.
(51:09):
So we're giving you a taste.
You got to go get it so you canread it Right, and so we want
everyone to know that welcome tothe jungle will be out, and
it's available at now.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
It'll be available on January 8th on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yes, january 8th on Amazon Perfect, and that's where
everyone can get it.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Right Perfect.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
All right, and so, before everyone leaves the couch
, my final question is alwayswhat do you want to be
remembered for, right?
So, when you're no longer here,which is going to be a very
long time?
For now, not the words Right nolonger here, and you know
someone says Tina, and all thethings that you've done you know
you've got your tentaclesraised to so many different
places Like, what do you want atthe core of it to be remembered
(51:48):
for?
Speaker 2 (51:49):
I want to be thought of as someone who actually made
a difference, use their timehere to make things better yes,
to make people.
To help people become the bestversions of themselves, to help
the world solve some problemsand to to help my friends and
family just have a better life.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Absolutely Make a difference.
Yes, absolutely.
We love that, all right, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Thank you, such an honor.
Thank you for being here todaySpeaking of Totally appreciated
All right, guys.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
So we had such a great episode with Tina, who has
a book that will be in storewhile in on Amazon on January
the eighth.
It is called Welcome to the tothe jungle my journey from the
reception desk to the C suite.
Make sure you head over toAmazon and get the book.
You can get it delivered rightto your home.
What we'd love to do is thenext time she's in Bermuda we
can do a part two of some sort.
(52:45):
I got a bit of more of a deepdive into the book, so that way
everyone's had some time to readit and we can kind of move
forward from there.
As always, big shout out to ourC current season sponsors, which
is Brown and Co and 59 front,and then our next season sponsor
, which is a welcome to thejungle.
So we are so excited to havethem on board for this next
upcoming season and we can'twait for you guys to read the
(53:07):
book and give us our yourfeedback on what you think about
the book.
As always, thank you forspending some time with me today
.
Make sure you head over to thewebsite hustleheartpodcastcom.
You can get some behind thescenes with myself and Tina, as
well as the show notes, as wellas a little bit about on the
blog about at this episode, andthen you can also tell me what
you thought about the episodethere as well.
(53:28):
Make sure you sign up as a VIPlistener so you can get some
insights, so you can get someadditional things that we'll be
giving away from some of oursponsors and, as always, I
appreciate you.
Thank you for spending sometime with me and for watching a
Sahara podcast.
It's time for hustle her podcast.
I'm your host, deshae Keynes.
Hustle her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me but my guests into theentrepreneurs and leaders we are
today.
If you're an enterprising womandetermined to succeed and
(00:22):
looking for a bit of motivation,a bit of tough love and some
actionable takeaways to be thebest you girl, you are in the
right place.
Hey guys, and welcome back tohustle her podcast.
Thanks so much for tuning intoday.
Big shout out to our sponsors,brown and company and 59 front.
(00:42):
However, we do have a newsponsor for our season that's
coming up, and I'll tell youmore about that as we approach
that time.
So be make sure you head overto hustle her podcastcom.
Make sure you sign up to be aVIP listener.
You can also get somebackground information about
today's guest, as well as giveus some feedback about what you
thought.
As always, super excited thatyou decided to spend some time
(01:03):
with me today, and so now we canget into it.
My next guest has an amazingresume, right, but what we are
leading with today is she is thenewest author on the block.
She has a new book that is justreleased.
It is called Welcome to thejungle.
My next guest is Tina Hostovich.
Hi, tina, hey D'Shay.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I am so excited to be with you.
First of all, I love yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Thank you, love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And for anybody who's listening, you need to sign up
for this podcast.
Thank you, and I'm just sohonored to be here with you
today.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I'm so excited, so I'm so glad that we led with.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
author right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And the book is out and we're so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We want everyone to go and get it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But you've also done some amazing things as well.
So you're also the vice chairPacific for locked in insurance,
correct.
And then you have some othertitles from the White House as
well.
So tell me a little bit aboutthis, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
President Biden appointed me this year as the as
an advisor to the arts on hisbehalf, and I specifically work
with the Kennedy Center and I'malso on their board.
So, yeah, so it's fun, it'sexciting Making a difference in
the world with with our arts.
Yes, that nourish our soulAbsolutely, in addition to our
work.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There you go, got to marry the two Exactly.
All right.
So we're going to start offwith a few questions, get the
audience to know you a littlebit better, and then we'll jump
in from there.
All right, all right, so I'mhappiest when.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm happiest when I'm with my family and it's quiet
time, which is rare.
But you know, my husband, myson or animals, and just kind of
hanging out at home and taking,and also the times when I'm by
myself and just reflecting andhaving a little quiet time.
Okay, finding some peace in aninsane world.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Love that.
Okay, tell me your favoritecolor.
Red, red, red, yeah, likebright, like strong, like
original red or like moreburgundy.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Kind of more like this almost.
But I love red.
Red too.
I have a bright red car, abright red Corvette.
Could I be more cliche?
Where's Prince when we need?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
him.
There you go, right, okay, allright, tell me a little bit
about your skincare routine.
Sure, keep the skin lookingfresh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Do you spend a lot of time on that?
Have a great dermatologist,harold Lancer, in Beverly Hills.
He's the best.
He has a product line.
It's amazing.
I drink 96 ounces of water aday.
It really makes a difference.
You do have to spend aninordinate amount of time, you
know, at the bathroom, but butyour skin is glowing and water,
(03:33):
truly, truly is the mostnourishing thing, I also try to
do a protein based.
A more plant protein based dietis better for your skin.
And then I use Korean skinskincare products.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I've heard about this recently.
Yeah, glass skin.
Yes, but I do.
Yeah, I do, lazy girl, koreanskincare because, there's like
45 products right If you do itright.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I just do the key ones and I've had friends advise
me and then I've done trial anderror.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You know, and that's my best advice to women, If you
want to try something, try it.
Yeah, see if you like it.
If you don't like it, don't buyit again.
But you have to try differentthings.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, exactly so okay, so that was a sunblock.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, no matter what your complexion type you need,
you need sunblock.
You need sunblock skin canceris not our friend.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
No, not at all.
So you make sure you get someblock, and I agree with you.
I've incorporated into mine aswell.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
All right, so tell me , do you have a hidden talent?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I used to write songs .
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was in a band.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Really, in high school I was the drummer In a
drummer.
Yes, because is there anyonecooler than the drummer?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
No, no one's more than the drummer.
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
At least that was the extensive logic.
I used to make that decision.
Plus, I had no musical talent.
I tried everything else.
I tried piano, I tried violin,I tried cello, I tried flute
zero talent, but boy, the drums.
I found my home found my homeand so I was in a band and then
(05:07):
I would, I wrote some songs andwe sold a demo album and yeah,
that went really far, as you cantell, but it was.
But it was an adventure and Ithink life should be an
adventure.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Right At all times.
You should be able to dowhatever you want to do whenever
you want to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, you should.
I like that.
You probably can.
It doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It doesn't happen, it rarely happens, but sometimes
we do these things that weshould just do them, and that's
completely fine yeah but weshould seek the extraordinary in
our lives.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You're only here once , and during the pandemic I had
some health challenges.
I had stage three cancer and astroke, and I'm alive.
And so I really had a chance toreflect when the world slowed
down about.
Oh my God, I must die twice.
And I'm here.
And now what?
What am I here for?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Why am I here?
What do I want?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
to accomplish.
This is not a dress rehearsal.
We're not coming backnecessarily.
We don't know.
So I think you should seek theextraordinary in your life
whenever you can.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, okay, I love that .
Tell me who's your closestfriend.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Her name is Linda.
We went to high school together.
I went to high school in Japan.
I was one of those wildchildren, obviously being the
drummer in a band.
What was your first clue, right?
So, in any event, I went to highschool in Japan.
It was an exchange program andI begged my parents to let me go
and I lived with Linda and herfamily, so her parents were a
(06:26):
second set of parents for me.
Her mom was Japanese and herfather was American military,
and she lives in NorthernCalifornia.
I just spent Thanksgiving withher, so we've been friends since
10th grade.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Wow, that's really cool.
Like sometimes you have theselifelong friends, but not
everyone has the lifelongfriends like that, so you got to
cherish them.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I'm still friends with my best friend from
kindergarten.
Sylvia my best friend frommiddle school, Paula, and my
best friend from high school,Linda.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Wow, that's amazing.
I love that for you.
Okay, so you spend a lot oftime on planes.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I feel like every time we've communicated,
recently you're like I've beenon a plane.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So tell me about what you like to do when you're on a
plane.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, I you know.
As you know, being on a planeis not the most relaxing, you
know, fun expenditure of yourtime, right, but you got to do
it or you never go anywhere.
So I've tried to find littlerituals.
So it's interesting that youask that things that keep me
centered particularly on longflights.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, get restless.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, so I always have two or three books with me
that I've been meaning to, onefor fun and two nonfiction you
know.
So I, I get a little educationand I get a little, you know,
grit and a little gossip and allthat.
And then I try to watch a movie, okay yeah, and I try to sleep.
But I, when I was younger, Icould sleep anywhere but no
(07:46):
longer so I tend to not sleep onplanes anymore but, I, get a
lot of movies in.
And then you know I worked onthe book on planes.
I did a lot of the book onplanes I did that and get up at
430 am every morning and rightfor two hours before the day
begins and everybody's lookingfor you.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right so.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I did that and I wrote on planes so lots of
planes.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Oh yeah, so tell me your favorite movie.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
My favorite movie of all time is Casablanca.
Other two, Casablanca and Jimmy, the Jimmy Stewart Christmas
movie.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Okay, so okay.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It's a wonderful life .
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, it's a wonderful life.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I couldn't think of the name either.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Okay, there you go.
Very nice, okay.
And then lastly, this like Ikeep telling everyone, it's
become a thing on the podcast,right, so everyone's for a while
now, who is your celebritycrush?
Or was Keanu?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Reeves.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh, I met him.
You met him.
Yes, oh, I love that.
He's lovely, okay, he's lovely.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So I was in.
I used to work in Century City,which is near Beverly Hills,
just for geography, but it'ssort of this was Beverly Hills
adjacent, it was Toys R Us.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So I went in because my son had a birthday party
coming up and he and all hisbuddies wanted matrix toys right
, it's when the first one cameout because my son is 27 now, so
he was.
This was a long time ago.
It was the first matrix.
So I'm in the store.
I have two matrix figurines,one for my son, one for my
godson.
I get in line.
(09:16):
I look up it's Keanu Reeves,I'm not kidding with his sister.
That's so cool.
With his sister and he said, oh,do you want me to sign those?
That's cool, that's really cool.
So, he's a lovely human beingand I admire that very much.
And you hear all the Keanustories.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, that's really cool.
I mean talk about a cool giftfor your son and girlfriend
right.
Like just happened to be in thestore at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's such a random, incredible thing, yeah love it.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
OK, so tell me about Little Tina.
What did Little Tina want to be?
What did she like to do overher sports?
The different things she wasinto.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Sure, one of the things that I talk about a
little bit in the book is I wasalways a storyteller, because I
grew up in an area of LosAngeles that was a little
rougher than some and mygrandparents came over from the
old country, so my family has avery strong attachment to
democracy and freedom whichwe'll talk about later.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
But my grandparents came here to escape the Russians
and the communists coming toCzechoslovakia, where they were,
and my mother's family cameover during the potato famine
for Ireland.
But in both cases there wasthis strong belief in building a
new life, and so I grew up witha lot of this conversation
(10:38):
around you can be who you wantto be, you can do whatever you
want.
At the same time, we were ofmodest means and we lived in a
very rough neighborhood in Los.
Angeles.
But I feel very blessed to havegrown up there because I
learned so much about differentpeople and different cultures
and how to get along with peopleand so my story which I tell in
(10:58):
the book.
But I'll share with you, if Imay.
So in elementary school it waskind of rough on the playground
at recess right and recess isalways such a mind-bill right
For sure.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's like who can make it up?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, and I think even in corporate America and as
you become an adult you're sortof doomed to repeat recess,
right and the playground.
So there were some women, youngwomen, girls at the time, I
guess, because they were 12, 11,12, so girls and they would
(11:32):
beat up other girls that theydidn't care for or didn't like
or had an issue with.
So I was other in thatneighborhood.
I was like the only blonde kid,the only you know all that.
So I decided that rather thantry to learn self-defense in 24
hours, which was a thought yeah,of course that maybe I could
(11:55):
just tell a story.
So what I did is I told thegirls I'll tell you what.
Let's go in this corner of theplayground.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I'm going to tell you guys a story and then, if you
like it, don't hit me.
Yeah, again.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Don't stab me, don't hit me.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And so the first day there were like six girls and
the next day there were morepeople and more people.
So it came to where I had alittle story group of about 50
or 60 people every day, fivedays a week, and it was
Shahirazad, you know, if you'refamiliar with the Arabian night
sale she told the story everynight so she wouldn't be
executed by her husband, theking.
(12:34):
So that's what I did every dayso I wouldn't be executed.
So, I was a storyteller, so Iwas always looking and I was
always interested.
And when I was growing updifferently because I'm a little
older than you are womenweren't encouraged to do a lot
of things that were encouragedto do now my parents were
(12:54):
incredibly supportive.
They were like, do whatever youwant, you don't need anything,
hold you back.
You need to get an education,you need to build a career, you
need to take it seriously.
But the general mindset was youneed to find a man and get
married and make sure you'reprovided for, which I'm sure to
you sounds insane and ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
No, but I mean, people still think that way
right.
And you know it's not as common, but you'd be very surprised.
I mean, people still think thatway and you know, at my age now
, people still look at me andare like you're not married or
are you married?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
or do you have any kids?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And so it still is there, and they look at you
almost with pity, because yourlife isn't fulfilled, because
you don't have this.
You actually have to have abetter life.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I'm sorry, take that out.
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
But it still happened , so sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, no, no, no, please.
I wanted this to be.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Not as over does it used to be, in the past where it
was like you know, you betterget married.
It was like marriage or school.
It wasn't that bad, but itdefinitely is still very oh.
She doesn't have a man, youknow, or?
You don't have any children, sohow could you really enjoy life
?
Like your life has no meaningthat that that the most is
actually more insulting than theman part of it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, no, you're right, you're right, and and the
world has changed.
And women are fifty threepercent of the workforce now and
they're fifty one percent ofmed school and law school
graduates, I mean the world haschanged, and yet society hasn't
changed.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
We still look at it in the sense of you know she is.
She is not complete, you knowwithout a husband and a family.
It's it's true, that is alittle bit shocking.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I mean I tried really hard to make it so you didn't
have to put up with that.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But I did.
I did Trust me.
I totally appreciate it, but itis still a thing.
I read this thing online a fewyears ago and it's become really
popular now.
But it was a girl who ran.
She was the story online.
It's become a meme now and itbasically was like she ran into
her ex and he was like, oh, isit Mrs whatever?
(15:00):
And she was like, actually no,it's doctor, right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And so I was like love it right, love it Like no,
how about?
Who cares about that portion ofit?
Yeah, it's a real love event,totally irrelevant, yeah, and
yet we're losing a generation ofyoung men, because young women
are actually doing better thanyoung men right now.
So we're in kind of a weirdinflection point in my opinion
(15:24):
and the opinion of others.
There's Scott Galloway, who isin charge of the Stern School at
NYU and is a famous speaker,philosopher, commentator on
society.
He's written some books anddone a lot of talks.
Young men are getting lostbecause they feel like all the
opportunities are going to youngwomen.
(15:44):
And it's so bitterly ironic forme because number one that's
not totally true and it's such aweird reversal but also as the
mother of a young son.
I think 2 plus 2 can equal 5.
If men and women or however youidentify can work together more
effectively, we can make 5 outof 4 or 10.
(16:06):
But if we don't all worktogether and collaborate we're
losing some things.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's the truth.
So obviously, I work in the DEIspace and so many times we have
these conversations with people, which it gets a little
frustrating and we see it in agender space as well.
It's just because we'rehighlighting and showcasing some
of the things that are where acertain group of people are
being disenfranchised or theyare not being supported in a way
(16:35):
does not take away from whatyou have been given or have been
provided for all this time it'sjust highlighting that there
have been some inequalities andthat is the reality of that
situation.
And I think it goes fromracially, gender-wise, even from
an ageist perspective,disability, all of those things.
And it doesn't necessarily meanjust because I'm a black woman
(16:58):
that you don't haveopportunities because you're a
white woman.
I'm not taking them away fromyou.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Everyone can eat.
We can all and we can make eachother better.
Exactly, we can help each otherunderstand, because you don't
know what you don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
No, not at all, and unless somebody shares their
journey with you.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Their experience you'll never know.
And you'll always think, oh,that's kind of weird, or they're
very whatever like an adjectiveright.
Because you don't know and youneed to get to know people and
talk to them so that youunderstand.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, especially for you, judge right as well, like
you've always got to get to knowsomeone, so that's definitely
important and I totally agreewith you on that.
But I guess so you're in schooland you've made all the
lunchtime stories.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, made all the lunchtime stories I've ever
wanted to love you.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So from that, what did you?
Go into university to study.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I was a film student.
Back to the storytelling theme,right.
So I was a film student at USCand my mother was dying of
cancer and so I wasn't able tohave a traditional I could have,
but I didn't have a traditionalcollege experience because my
father and mother talked to meand the money that we needed for
(18:13):
my mom's treatment because thiswas the 80s- and chemotherapy
wasn't covered and MRIs weren'tcovered.
All the treatment for cancer.
None of those things werecovered by insurance back in the
day Because they were new andnobody knew Seemed experimental
then, exactly.
So in order to get thetreatment to try to keep my mom
alive, we needed to use alltheir savings, and that savings
(18:37):
had been earmarked for mycollege.
So what I did is I got a job ininsurance and I thought, well,
I'll put myself through collegeand then I can help my dad take
care of my mom and hopefully wecan keep her alive and I can put
myself through college.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So OK, so will you start a career in insurance when
?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I started at Inoue Masanaka, which is a Japanese
brokerage firm that became MarshJapan.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's so crazy, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And because I had gone to high school in Japan and
spoke Japanese.
I don't anymore like I did then.
I was younger and it was morerecent.
But, I did, and so they wantedsomeone with Western looks and
the command of the language andjust basic skills to be nice to
people when they come in, sothat was my first job.
(19:27):
I was a receptionist at.
Inoue Masanaka, which becameMarsh Japan, and then I left and
went to Johnson and Higginsafter two years and stayed there
until the sale to Marsh, toMarsh again.
Marsh again.
All roads seemed to lead Backto Marsh.
So then I had a contract.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I had to stay.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I stayed, and then I decided to make a change.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's so crazy.
I mean, the world is so small.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It is so small.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
How we connected and then come to find out that you
worked at Marsh and I now workat Marsh.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
It's so crazy, it's a very small world, very small
world.
And now you're the vice chairfor Pacific for Lockton
Insurance.
So what does that entail?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So we have 1,000 people in the Pacific, all
California pretty much, and wehave the most diverse group
because California we're thefourth largest economy in the
world In the world thank you,Gavin and I have to say that.
And also thank you.
We're very diverse, which ispart of our, I think, part of
(20:30):
the richness of California.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, I like California.
It's definitely a traffic.
It's definitely a traffic.
I'm not going to defend thetraffic, I mean ever.
It's terrible yeah yeah, yeah,laura likes California too, all
right, Anytime you want to comevisit yeah.
Come on down.
Yeah, come on down Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So anyway, so, yeah, so during the pandemic
particularly and I'm sure youexperienced it we wanted to make
sure everyone was okayemotionally, in addition to so
that's part of my responsibilitylike just making sure
everybody's okay.
Like, do they, do they havefood issues?
Where they're safety challenges, you know, where their mental
health challenges?
You know?
(21:10):
In our DEI DEIA we've added nowit is we approach all those
issues and we try to reallyfocus on that during the
pandemic.
That's one of my bigresponsibilities, big
philanthropy how can we usemoney that you give to not to
just do good but to make it makesense business wise as well?
(21:31):
And then I'm I do governmentrelations and then I have a book
of business, of clients that Ilove and take care of.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, so before we get into the book, because
that's what we want to talkabout, but before we get into
the book, one of the things thatI noticed when you sent me the
cover is that someone who gave areview on the book was
Secretary Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, now there's not every daythat, you know, hillary Clinton
can give a comment on a book andyou can put it on your book.
(21:59):
So, before we get into the booka bit more, walk me through how
you got into, kind of like, thepolitical arena and then we're
able to have this builderrelationship that she felt was a
allow you to, you know, reviewyour book.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Thank you, thank you.
So I actually had dinner withher on Monday in DC.
So I came here for the via DC.
So I have been involved in,I've always been interested in
politics and I lived in DC whenI so I went to the University of
Maryland briefly before I wentto USC and so when I lived when
(22:33):
I went to the University ofMaryland, I was very interested
in politics.
Because you're right there inthe backyard- right of DC.
And.
But I didn't pursue it becauseI was building a career.
I was young, I didn't have alot of experience, I didn't
think I had a lot to offer, butI was fascinated by it.
I was fascinated by the process, I was fascinated by the
(22:54):
history, all those things rightand growing up.
The Kennedys were a biginfluence on me, as they were a
lot of people of my generation,and Jackie Kennedy in particular
was an influence because shewas a woman who took a very
cliche, prescribed role and madeit very unique and incredibly
(23:15):
valuable and she was probably aspopular and charismatic as JFK.
So she did some amazing thingsand I actually belong to the
White House HistoricalAssociation now which she
founded.
That was her vision.
She said this is the people'shouse.
Let's make it.
Let's make it look pretty.
There you go Fix it up, so soanyway, so I've always been
(23:37):
interested and involved andwatching and but I didn't really
have the opportunity to doanything until a friend of mine
said, hey, this friend of minethat I've known forever is
running for president.
I'm like, oh, that's cute.
Was Barack Obama?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, super cute, yeah.
So I went to an event and I metMichelle Obama and Dr Biden at
that, so I met both of them atthe same time, and I was
chatting with Dr Biden aboutcommunity colleges and the
education model in the UnitedStates, and then I had the
opportunity to talk to theamazing Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Amazing.
Yeah, it is incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I can't say anything, Everything everybody thinks is
true.
She is extraordinary.
And so we were chatting and atthese events, if you chat with
one of the principles longerthan three minutes, it's like a
lifetime, right, it's like dogyears.
So we talked for 15 minutes.
I thought, oh my God, they'regoing to throw me out.
But at the end of it she turnedto me and said you know, we
(24:43):
need you off the sidelines andon the field.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So you're going to do that right.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yes, ma'am, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What do you say to Michelle Obama?
Yeah, no, I'm good.
Thanks, michelle.
No, not at all yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So I just said, of course.
I am Of course I am, and soafter that and then I was a fan
of the Clintons.
From when he was a kid, I waspresident and my parents really
admired the Clintons and theywere both still alive when he
was president.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
My mom passed away after that.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
But my dad passed away too.
But I always admired them but Ididn't know them and I wasn't
part of that circle.
So when she was Secretary ofState and I was working for
Michelle and Barack, I was atthe White House and I got to
meet Secretary Clinton and I wasso fangirl, I was so fangirl.
(25:38):
And I was that way withMichelle Obama and then Hillary
Clinton.
So when I spoke to SecretaryClinton for the first time, it
was just such a lovelyconversation and we took a
picture.
And then, the next thing I know, about three months later,
someone in her circle reachedout to me and said they were
(25:58):
doing an event for the ClintonFoundation and that Secretary
Clinton thought I might beinterested in getting involved.
So I got involved in theClinton Foundation then and also
working for the Obama's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So what did you do for the Obama's during their
time in office?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So there was a there's a advisory group called
Presidential Partners and it'swhere you commit to raise money,
support it and participate inkey issues.
My issue that I asked to beinvolved with and I asked to be
allowed to work on was thehealthcare reform, Because I saw
(26:36):
what that did to my family nothaving money for medical bills
and I see what happens to otherpeople and in the US, and I
think you have more of theBritish system here, yeah, see,
and so, and we don't, as youknow and we don't have a safety
net really.
So Secretary Clinton actuallytried to get something similar
(26:59):
when she was the first lady, butshe got so much hate.
Right People are like why isthat first lady trying to?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
do it, yeah, anyway, so that's I think it's a vanity
kind of position as opposed toreal work being done.
Right, and it was real work,but people didn't want to hear
it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
So finally Barack Obama wasable to get it passed, and Nancy
Pelosi was hugely instrumentalin getting the support.
But to me, that was my passion.
I didn't want people to have tochoose between food and
medicine.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, and I think that's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I don't want anybody we should not be having to
choose.
I'm not going to eat today orpay for my medication.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Right and healthcare is not it is a human right.
Healthcare is a human right100%.
It's not a luxury or good.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, no one is self-inflicting some of the
things that happen to people onthemselves.
You know what I mean.
So being able to have basiccare is-.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Absolutely, and if you don't have it, you're going
to get sick or Exactly.
Because then you're going tohave to rely on the emergency
room as your primary carephysician.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And it just goes down hell from there Absolutely,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And so okay, so, and then sorry.
And then now in the Bidenadministration, you have a role
there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yes, the advisory council to the arts.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
The President Biden recently appointed you on that
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yes, he did in May.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Mm-hmm, nice and how and what does that-?
What does that actually?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
entail.
So there's meetings, and sorecently there was an event at
the White House where we did thepremium laureate awards in
conjunction with the governmentof Japan.
Got it, and so I have theopportunity, as part of this
advisory group, to be involvedwith other countries and their
arts programs, which I findfascinating, yeah, and this in
(28:45):
particular since I went to highschool in Japan.
Dr Biden thought I might beinterested in participating
Absolutely, and SecretaryClinton this is her event
because she introduced it whenshe was first lady Nice.
So I recently got to do that.
I went earlier this year whenBruce Springsteen and Amy Tang
and some other oh I love itfolks got the medal for
(29:06):
Humanities and the.
Arts and so you know, just beingpart of it and being in
meetings and having theconversation as a nation.
What should we-, what shouldthe role of our arts be?
How can it support our citizensand how do we make it
accessible for everyone?
I think those are thechallenges, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And that's really good work as well you know yeah.
And sometimes when you hear youknow White House and committees
and these types of things wethink we don't necessarily
always think of the arts.
I think that that's a reallygood kind of way to get that out
there, and it's good thatthey're doing that and
continuing the work from.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Hillary.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Clinton Secretary, Clinton as well.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's so important.
Yeah, absolutely, you're in thearts as well as an insurance.
I mean, I guess I guess we cancall this the arts, I don't know
, you're filmmaking, I don'tknow I realize heavily, laura,
you're filmmaking team.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, we will leave that one.
I won't claim that one too much.
I wish I could claim that partof it.
But you know, that side of itwe definitely leave to LDS.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
It's all good, all right, so you wrote this book,
and so you started to write itduring the pandemic, right?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, I started to write it this year, this year,
yeah, I work up New Year's Dayand I said, okay, so I'm
cancer-free two years.
Wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Congratulations.
Thank you Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I was treated at the city of hope, which is a
phenomenal.
It's where my mom died, but itis a phenomenal institution and
this is 30 years later and itwas phenomenal the treatment and
then, of course, and then thestroke and then trying to get my
arms around the job and theglobal pandemic and everything
that was going on.
But I woke up New Year's Dayand I thought I'm here for a
(30:52):
reason.
I didn't die twice.
So what is it that I think Istill need to do?
And I decided that when I wasyoung, if I had had a book that
was like an honest friendtalking to me, giving me advice,
saying no, don't do that, it'sreally stupid.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Here's why.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, but do this, and here's why it's a really
good thing.
You know, just like somebodythat you would trust, who has
your best interest at heart.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
If I had had a guide, it would have changed my world.
So I thought I can write whatI've learned.
Even if it only helps a couplepeople, maybe it'll make a
difference for women inparticular.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I've wrote it for young men as well, but it's
focused my lived experiences asa woman, yeah, and as a woman,
absolutely, and I think that'srelatable as well.
We should all have targetmarkets, but that doesn't mean
that it isn't for anyone else.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That is exclusive.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So the book is entitled Welcome to the Jungle,
my.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Journey from the Reception Desk to Sea Sweets.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, so started the reception desk and then you
ended up in the sea sweepposition.
So I mean, obviously the bookgives us a lot of good advice
and how to do that and what todo, what not to do.
But in your career, like whatwould you say was, I guess, the
best thing you did to advanceyour career?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It's really hard to not be afraid.
It's really hard and to takerisks and through other women
really, and in the beginning ofmy career, other women were the
enemy, you know, because therewasn't a lot of camaraderie and
support.
It was.
There were only going to be twowomen and there's five of you.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
It was that, because, god knows, we need a quote oh my God, we
couldn't have more than twowomen.
We can't have three.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
My God, the world would come to an end and the sun
won't come up in the morning.
So but I did over time, otherwomen that.
I watched and that I didrespect mostly clients frankly
because colleagues weren't assupportive in the beginning as
they are now, but back then theyweren't.
But clients, there were womenat clients and one of them said
(33:06):
to me don't ask, don't get.
And I thought, well, no,because they'll just tell me no.
And they did tell me no, butyou just keep asking but, you
have to learn to do that.
So I think I would.
If I were writing a letter tomy younger self.
I would give myself permissionto ask for more and I would
understand that I have the rightto expect more, even if other
(33:29):
people don't think I do.
And I tried to keep that pointof view.
But it's hard.
It's hard when, when you're oneof the first ones and
everybody's telling you no andeverybody's telling you go away.
And you know, I still havethose experiences.
I was at an event last week andyou know when people talk to
(33:51):
you and they're being verydismissive and you can see
they've looked at you andthey've made a judgment.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And then they start looking for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Okay, she's this, this and this, and, but they
don't know you.
They don't know anything aboutyou, but they make those
decisions and so you're alwaysgoing to have that.
You're always going to havepeople who think that whatever
you're doing is wrong.
Don't worry about other peopleAbsolutely.
If you've spent your lifetrying to make other people
happy and please other people,you will never be happy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I think that's really difficult for women,
though it's very well, pleasers?
Yeah, we're pleasers.
And then also back to yourpoint in the beginning, around,
you know, we were also.
A lot of people were raised towant to be married and to be a
mom.
And those I don't want to sayjobs, but those I guess
positions that you kind of haveare also very much serving of
(34:44):
other people, traditionallyRight.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So and you end up being the last person on the
list that you kind of look afterwith that.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Very much so.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So it's very difficult to not do that,
especially when you become a mom.
I assume yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And that and that is a hard and that's my second book
is going to do so.
The first book is maybe thefirst 20 years of your career
and how to get set up and how tothink about your life and how
to make sure you don't end upwith a life that wasn't what you
intended to create.
Got it, you know, yeah, JohnLennon has a great line from one
of his songs life is whathappens to you while you're busy
making other plans, and thatcan.
(35:21):
That happens for most people.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
And you have to be very intentional in order to not
let that happen to you.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
And when you start having children or start having
more traditionalresponsibilities, everybody
starts to dismiss you again, andso you have to fight to not get
ignored and you have to be ableto do so.
It's kind of like, well, youcan take care of your kids, but
that's your hobby.
Now we still expect the samethings.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Gotcha.
So how do you, what advice doyou give to fight that?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
You have to.
You just have to be flexible,you have to be willing to
compromise.
You're never going to be able togive 100% to anything, but you
can.
Sometimes you can give 110 overhere and sometimes you can give
50 and sometimes you can give30.
You just have to learn and youlearn by trial and error and you
know and you do your very, verybest, absolutely Hearts in the
(36:14):
right place.
I mean, I wanted my son to betaken care of and be happy.
I wanted my husband to be happy.
I wanted my boss to be happy,my client, you know, we want
everybody to be happy, right.
But in order to accomplish that, sometimes we have to take a
back seat.
But you have to remind yourselfagain back to that it's not a
dress rehearsal and you do haveto make your family your
(36:38):
priority sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Sometimes it has to be you too.
They're not mutually exclusive.
We are capable of doing morethan one behavior and holding
more than one thought.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Absolutely, of course .
It's definitely something thatwe can do, and I think we have
to, as women, embrace that aswell, right?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So this idea of having a perfect work-life
balance, like what do you thinkabout that?
It's not possible.
Yeah, it's not possible, and Ilove that we're finally there
right.
Because it was such a buzz termand phrase for so long.
You got to get your work-lifebalance in check and this, that
and the other, and you know, gotto spend more time at home and
get it perfectly balanced.
(37:17):
But that is so not possible.
It will never be perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
You'll never be perfect.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, and then you'll be crazy.
Yeah, and then you really needsome balance, like a different
type of balance, right?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And then you might end up, you know, with some
comfort rituals like drinking orother things that are not good.
Exactly, you don't want that.
No, you don't want that.
And then that leads down to adifferent you know road, Then
you have a whole different setof problems.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, definitely.
So, when you were writing thebook right and you were like,
what are some of the key thingsyou wanted to convey, yes, like,
tell me some of those things.
Well, give it to me too much,because we want you guys to go
and get the book right.
So give me some of the keythings you wanted you want
readers to take away from thebook that they can kind of you
know, wet the whistle a littlebit.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Thank you.
That's what I'm going to talkabout your intention, setting
your intention and always beingin that place and everything you
do, and so I talk about somepretty straightforward things
like you know how you shouldinteract with human resources as
an example, because it's alittle different than what you
(38:23):
might think from the outside.
I also talk about IT.
You want to make friends withthe people who fix your computer
.
Got that right and you'restranded and you're 10 hours
ahead on the other side of theworld, so you know some really
basic stuff like that.
But I also talk about moments inyour life where let's say that
(38:43):
you're the student and you havea mentor and it's great and it's
been a great relationship, butthen, as time goes on, you
become the master.
How do you handle thattransition that can change your
relationship and shake up somethings?
I talk about that.
I talk about you know yourbehavior and what's and I'm just
really honest because I knowpeople, particularly my son's
(39:08):
generation.
They're like we don't want allyour rules.
I'm not giving you rules.
I'm telling you how people willview you.
It's your choice.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And here's the thing.
I say that at work as well,especially with our younger
generations.
So we have Gen Z years arecoming into the workforce.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, my son is Gen Z .
They're kicking the door stone.
Right there they are.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And here's the thing, and I actually appreciate their
views on life and I appreciatewhat they bring to their table.
They love to balance theirpersonal time and they're not
workaholics like what we weretaught to be as millennials and
our parents.
You know, it wasn't like that.
But what they do not, I think,factor in is that Generation X,
(39:47):
as well as our boomers, arestill in the workforce.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right, we have four generations now.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Four generations in the workforce now and they still
work in a specific way and moretimes than not and not all the
time, but more times than notare late, late bloom boomers, I
should say.
And then our more senior, youknow, generation X, are the ones
in the leadership positions.
So, while you have this outlookon life, that is different and
(40:15):
I respect it as a millennia theydon't.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
And you have to play the game sometimes in order to
get ahead.
So I think that that's very,very good advice, that what
you're saying there, because noteveryone looks at it that way.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
No, you're right, and it's a big challenge.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, the multi-generational workforce,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
And it's even a challenge on college campuses
right now.
There are so many issues thatdivide us in the United States,
and a big one right now,obviously, it's the war in
Ukraine and the war in Israel.
Yeah, gaza.
So there's a lot of conflict inAmerica, there's a lot of
conflict on college campuses andthere's a lot of different
feelings from generations andthere's and I do respect Gen Z
(40:59):
and I do agree what I appreciateis that, having been sort of
having come up in the corporateworld, which felt like being
raised by a British nanny Right,keep calm, carry on, stiff
upper lip, I don't want to hearit.
Just do your job, work, work,work, just carry on Fine.
(41:23):
But I appreciate that theyquestion things which we weren't
really taught to do.
No, we were discouraged.
I'm a boomer, so especially me.
Millennials had a little moreleeway.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
maybe we did have a bit more leeway, I think, with
that, but we were raised bygenerations you were raised by
boomers.
Yeah boomers and somegeneration acts, depending on
where they kind of fall, wherethe work life balance, part of
it, when we want to use thatterm, is more on the work side.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It like we were still kind of the evolution of what
our parents wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
We were a little bit more spoiled.
We got the things that ourparents didn't have.
Like you know, our parentsmight have gotten a full right
to university, but for us it wasthey might have paid or it
might have been a combination.
Yes, Whereas these Gen Zers andI say these Gen Zers because
they're my younger siblings- butthese Gen Zers, it's a
completely different kind ofenvironment that they were
brought into.
I think they're spoon fed a lotmore than we, a lot of
(42:22):
different generations, were.
And I think that it's okay tosome extent.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Because I think that shows the evolution of where a
lot of different you knowhouseholds are now Right Right,
which is good.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It is good.
It is good.
The problem is because we'renot talking to each other.
There's a lot of misunderstand.
Yeah, for sure so you haveboomers saying oh, this is lazy
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
They say that about us as millennials, for sure yeah
.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
And yet.
And then my son is like boomers, you ruined the planet.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
You know, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
But at the same time, we're about to witness the
largest transfer of wealth inhistory as boomers die, I mean
so millennials and Gen Zers aregoing to be raking it in.
Yeah, that's true and I knowit's kind of feel like quit,
quit, trashing me for wreckingthe planet when you're going to
inherit it.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
But that's not the point, and the point is we just
need to understand each other.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I do agree.
And to your point about theearning part of it, I was
reading something the other day,I can't remember where, and it
was saying that Gen Zers areprobably going to be the first
generation to not out earn theirparents.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Wow, I did not know that.
Yeah, I can't remember where itwas.
It makes sense when you thinkabout it, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And I need to remember where I found that for
so I can put a little you knowsub underneath to give whoever
wrote that credit.
But I remember reading it and Iwas like that actually makes
sense, because for so longgenerations were doing better
than their parents.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Correct, and that was the goal.
Yeah, every generation's goalwas, you know, have your
children do better than you did.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what you kind of wanted.
So it was the first generationto go to university, and then it
was the next to be doctors andlawyers and all those types of
things.
And now we're changing the gameand you're giving everyone this
amazing advice for thebeginning parts of their career,
right, yeah, I love this somuch, so you have a point here.
In welcome to the jungle,you'll discover how to lay the
(44:21):
foundation for a successfulcareer and life, right?
So what?
What?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
is the life part of it.
The life part is you know it'sso easy we were talking about it
, about the balance being on thework side more so.
Only you can make you happy,right?
Only you know what you want,only you know what your dreams
are.
I could tell you I think youshould do this and you'd be like
, yeah, thanks, good.
But or maybe you'll say, oh,that's interesting, but the
(44:49):
point is you have to build yourown life.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, it is your responsibility.
Yeah, absolutely, that's whathappens to you it can be.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It can be, and I've been in that situation where
I've had years where life is allabout what's happening to me,
not what.
I'm doing not what I'm gettingout of my life, but but that
should be the exception,absolutely, and you have to work
at it.
And so I talk about that Planyour life.
What do you want?
You asked the question earlierwhen are you you're happiest?
(45:18):
You need to incorporate that,because if you build this
fabulous life but you're nothappy, what have you got?
What do you have?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, I mean the thing is it depends on what
makes you happy, too right,because some people say money
don't buy happiness, but thething about it is Well there's a
money helps, well there's a.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
there's a threshold.
Yeah, they've done studies.
There's an amount of money thatdoes make you happy and
everything in advance of that inexcess of that it doesn't make
you.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, gotcha, so it's that what's that number I?
Don't know and we don't know,and it's got to be different for
everyone, cause one is relativeto one how much you earn, right
, right, how much you make, andthen what you can and cannot
afford based on that earning.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah, and what your spending habits are right,
absolutely.
Some people love to do fabuloustrips and vacations and some
people don't.
Yeah, some people have a moremodest life, but they're happy.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, so it's those things right.
And it's different for everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Everybody has a different number, but there is a
number.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, so you're a woman in leadership right.
And I think we have to takeinto account the female, that
you are a female, you're a womanand with that, what are some of
the things that you would saywere very different for you, in
kind of the matriculation ofyour career?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
There were expectations in the beginning of
my career, like when I've gotmy first job.
They said, oh, and, by the way,you have to clean the bathroom,
no kidding, you have to makecoffee, you have to wash the
dishes, the bathroom of thepresident of the company.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Gosh, but his own bathroom.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
I've aspired to that my whole career.
I don't have one.
What?
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I don't think I'm ever going to get one.
They make offices differentnowadays right, I know.
I'm like I'm not going to getone.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
But anyway, but he had one, so I so, though I had
to feed his fish like he hadsome weird.
So, in addition to work, inaddition to certificates of
insurance, in addition to typingmemos or whatever the
assignment was you had to dothat.
So it's kind of like well,you're a woman, but you're the
help, like if they're, let letthere not be any confusion in
(47:20):
your mind, honey, you're thehelp and you, you need to
remember that.
And so that was like oh, causeI wasn't raised like that.
My parents were like what do youthink?
Should we do this?
Do you want to do?
You know, they weren't like,yeah, they didn't make me feel
like I should be raised to be aservant, absolutely yeah.
So there was that, and obviouslythe sexual harassment the me
(47:44):
too.
You know we could make a movieabout that stuff, but it was
really bad back in the day.
It hasn't gone away, though.
I mean Jeffrey Epstein died in2019.
I know they're stilltrafficking, there's still abuse
, there's still things thathappen to me that I'm shocked by
.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, to this day.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
To this day.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, it's crazy when you look back at like your
career and all these things thathave happened right and we say
you know, we still have to saylike the first woman to do this,
or the first this or the firstthat or whatever.
Why do you feel like we'reconstantly breaking these glass
ceilings?
As women like constantly havingto shatter this first thing all
over again?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
All the time Because no one wants to give up power.
Right, it's the truth.
That's why incumbent presidentsrun for reelection, no matter
what I mean.
Power is is the ultimate drugin so many ways, yep, and so the
people that hold the power orhave historically held the power
, the cliche old white dudesright Yep.
(48:47):
They've historically held thepower, so they're not going to
just say, okay, you're right,it's your turn.
Yeah, if you have a lot ofpower, you're not going to
willingly, just here you go.
Let me know how it goes.
Yeah, you're going to be likewell, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So, as women, we've just come to the table where
we're over 50% right.
Over 50% in the workforce, over50% of doctors, lawyers, indian
chiefs, you know, astronauts,whatever the case may be, we're
there, we're at a critical mass,but we're still trying.
(49:25):
We're still having to say butyou're right, the first one, the
second woman the third woman.
Whatever, I think 10 years fromnow that won't be as strong, but
I think in the meantime we needto find a way for genders to
work together more effectivelyfor the younger people, because
(49:45):
they don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah, so if a young woman takes your book and she's
reading it, what is somethingthat you would want her to get
from this so that she isn'tfeeling like she's continuing to
have to break the glass ceiling?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I want her to believe it, to understand that she can
believe in herself and thatbuilding the career is within
her control.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
This isn't.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
You can.
It's hard.
Sometimes there are momentswhen you're like I don't know if
I can do this.
It's just too hard and toofrustrating and too upsetting or
too hurtful or name anadjective but you have the
control.
You can make it happen as muchas you possibly can.
(50:30):
You don't have control overeverything.
So I want young women to knowthis is your journey, this is
your life this is your career.
These are some things that willhelp you think about what that
looks like in 20 years and iswhat it looks like in 20 years
going to be what you aredreaming of?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
now, absolutely Wow.
We're almost at time.
This is crazy Wow.
I went by so fast, I know ithappens all the time, and when I
get the signal from, I'm like,oh my gosh, I'm scrambling to
make sure I've gotten everythingtogether, but no, I think the
cool thing about doing episodesabout this is learning about you
.
Yes, but also with the book it'slike.
(51:09):
So we're giving you a taste.
You got to go get it so you canread it Right, and so we want
everyone to know that welcome tothe jungle will be out, and
it's available at now.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
It'll be available on January 8th on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yes, january 8th on Amazon Perfect, and that's where
everyone can get it.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Right Perfect.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
All right, and so, before everyone leaves the couch
, my final question is alwayswhat do you want to be
remembered for, right?
So, when you're no longer here,which is going to be a very
long time?
For now, not the words Right nolonger here, and you know
someone says Tina, and all thethings that you've done you know
you've got your tentaclesraised to so many different
places Like, what do you want atthe core of it to be remembered
(51:48):
for?
Speaker 2 (51:49):
I want to be thought of as someone who actually made
a difference, use their timehere to make things better yes,
to make people.
To help people become the bestversions of themselves, to help
the world solve some problemsand to to help my friends and
family just have a better life.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Absolutely Make a difference.
Yes, absolutely.
We love that, all right, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Thank you, such an honor.
Thank you for being here todaySpeaking of Totally appreciated
All right, guys.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
So we had such a great episode with Tina, who has
a book that will be in storewhile in on Amazon on January
the eighth.
It is called Welcome to the tothe jungle my journey from the
reception desk to the C suite.
Make sure you head over toAmazon and get the book.
You can get it delivered rightto your home.
What we'd love to do is thenext time she's in Bermuda we
can do a part two of some sort.
(52:45):
I got a bit of more of a deepdive into the book, so that way
everyone's had some time to readit and we can kind of move
forward from there.
As always, big shout out to ourC current season sponsors, which
is Brown and Co and 59 front,and then our next season sponsor
, which is a welcome to thejungle.
So we are so excited to havethem on board for this next
upcoming season and we can'twait for you guys to read the
(53:07):
book and give us our yourfeedback on what you think about
the book.
As always, thank you forspending some time with me today
.
Make sure you head over to thewebsite hustleheartpodcastcom.
You can get some behind thescenes with myself and Tina, as
well as the show notes, as wellas a little bit about on the
blog about at this episode, andthen you can also tell me what
you thought about the episodethere as well.
(53:28):
Make sure you sign up as a VIPlistener so you can get some
insights, so you can get someadditional things that we'll be
giving away from some of oursponsors and, as always, I
appreciate you.
Thank you for spending sometime with me and for watching a
Sahara podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com